What constitues a Post Op?

[tinkerbell]

Hmmmmm....well, the thing is that when someone creates a thread in the form of a question, it is obvious that everyone who aswers under such thread is going to give their opinion based on their individual knowledge, feelings, and experiences.  

Needless to say, I could fabricate a zillion reasons to justify why I wouldn't have SRS, but there is this tiny voice inside each of us that never lies.  I am sure that everyone here is well aware of what constitutes a post-op, of what a transsexual/woman is , of what it means to be fulltime; however as I said,  each individual is the judge of their own beliefs, emotions, and feelings, just let's not expect that other people agree with what *you* believe.

Although so much has happened recently in my life and I have lost someone who was very dear to me,  I can truly say that I am at peace with myself.  This is so right and the way it was always supposed to be.  I'm post-op and extremely happy about it, and if I had the chance to do it all over again, I would definitely do it in a milli second.  That little voice never lies, can you hear it and honestly say that you are happy with the way you are?

I realise now that I made that stupid trip to the US for nothing.  I spent all those thousands of American dollars in surgery, hotel, recuperation time after GRS for nothing.  I modified my life so drastically to fit my dilation schedule for nothing.  I went through the physical pain of GRS for months for nothing at all.  I just wanted to be a "normal" girl and have the same legal rights as any other normal girl.  Have a new birth certificate, get married, have children through adoption.  I was very stupid.  I could just have had a castration and everything would be as normal as it can be.

Yes, you are, and so am I and all the other women who have had SRS!  

tink

[cindianna_jones]

for Tink and Yvonne.... me too, me too 

Hey look, post-op is short for Post Operative. That's what it means.  Pretty simple.

Cindy

[Thundra]

Hey look, post-op is short for Post Operative.

Thank you for quoting me m'dear.

That's what it means.  Pretty simple.

Yes, indeed. But what is the operation? What will the operation be next year, or the year after that? Surgery does not a woman make. technology changes, and so will the results.

Just another example of people needing to agree to disagree.

All that really matters is whether you are happy with yourself.

[cindianna_jones]

Thundra,

You notice, I didn't say "which" operation.   

There are certainly many choices these days.  And I'm willing to share the happy news with anyone that cares to share.  Otherwise, tain't none of my bizness.

Cindi

[Jeannette]

Oh come on!!

A post-operative transsexual is someone who has had the actual genital surgery done. It is very difficult to tell a m-f post op transsexual from a genetic female. Up to very recently, female-male transsexuals had no effective surgical technique to create a penis. There are penile implants and grafts, but these are often easy to spot.

There are more definitions here for your reading pleasure;

http://www.msu.edu/~alliance/faq/faqtransgendered.html

[Emerald]

Actually Jennette, post-op doesn't mean post-operative genital surgery. Medically speaking, 'post-op' refers to after-the-operation for ANY type of surgery.

From www.medterms.com:
Definition of Postop
Postop: Short for postoperative, after surgery. The opposite of postop is preop.

Let those who are wise make use of 'post-SRS' if that is what is precisely intended and meant to be conveyed. We can solve these silly problems and fruitless fussing. Post-SRS is short, concise, just as easy to type, and sounds soooo MUCH more impressive than post-op, don't you think?

Post-orchi, post-FFS... the possibilities are both endless and more accurate! Are we not allowed to expand, improve our vocabularies and the dictionary for the sake of accuracy? I believe we can!

Hear ye, hear ye! We now declare 'post-op' to be old fashioned, ambiguous, and obsolete.
The King is dead! Long live Post-SRS!

Times are changing!
-Emerald 

[Butterfly]

I think that we are all aware about what we are taking about in this forum when we are talking about the term "post op", we are talking about SRS/GRS and no other type of surgery.  I would have thought that it was obvious.
Steph

Post-op does mean "post operative" (after surgery, any kind of surgery as a matter of fact) but as outlined by Steph, we're discussing the definition of "post-op" GRS, not other type of surgical operation.  Hence Jeannette's definition of post-op (as in GRS) is the correct one.

[Jeannette]

I think that we are all aware about what we are taking about in this forum when we are talking about the term "post op", we are talking about SRS/GRS and no other type of surgery.  I would have thought that it was obvious.
Steph

Post-op does mean "post operative" (after surgery, any kind of surgery as a matter of fact) but as outlined by Steph, we're discussing the definition of "post-op" GRS, not other type of surgical operation.  Hence Jeannette's definition of post-op (as in GRS) is the correct one.

Hiya Butterfly and thanks.  I thought it was obvious what we were discussing here.  I should have made it clear that my post referred to  "post-op gender reassignment surgery" and "not other kind of post-op status".

[Thundra]

OK. So it seems that we have limited the scope of the discussion to be limited to the current definition and understanding of the term post-op. If an orchiectomy is not post-op, than what is the underlying meaning of post-op. Removal of penis? Removal of all external genitalia? Creation of a neo-vagina? I'm trying to get a grip on what people are trying to accomplish.

Many people have talked about how sex is not important to them, so is the presence of a neo-vagina comforting in that penetration is an option after surgery, or is it that there are no visible markers of being male post-surgery? Does the comfort one feels after surgery come from feeling satisfied with their lack of male genitalia, the presence of female-performing genitalia, that acceptance of other females and males because of that lack of genitalia, or all of the above. Or is it just so that you can have sex like other females? What is so important about being post-op?

I take it then, that a person that had a nullification is also not considered post-op if no neo-vagina is created? For my own purposes  > I consider a woman to be female when I can penetrate her. Anally does not count for me, although lots of lesbians are into that. So, I would not want to be with a woman that had the colon-resection surgery either. ::ick:: But that is just me. It seems like post-op has a completely different meaning than woman, which I guess fits in with the mantra that gender and sex are seperate.

What I am most curious about, is whether the drive to be post-op, is driven more by internal or external factors. Internal being the feelings one has about their own body image, and external being the acceptance or rejection one feels coming back from friends and acquaintences regarding their body appearance.

Since the majority of people one meets or spends time with will never see their sexual anatomy, it would "seem" to indicate that that societal judgments would be a minor factor in contemplating GRS. But the postings I read constantly seem to indicate behaviour driven by the need for acceptance in society, even though society will never know. So, is it fear of going to a male prison? Or fear of exposure after a car accident or during other surgery?
Or is it because you hated your birth genitalia so much that you felt the need to change it?

I know that I am going off into the yonder here, but since the definition for post-op is going to continue to evolve along with technology, I wanted to know how we got from orchiectomy as post-op to colon-resection surgery as post-op?  OK. New thread. Who does the polls here?

Is colon-resection GRS superior to penile-inversion GRS, and why if so?

[seldom]

OK. So it seems that we have limited the scope of the discussion to be limited to the current definition and understanding of the term post-op. If an orchiectomy is not post-op, than what is the underlying meaning of post-op. Removal of penis? Removal of all external genitalia? Creation of a neo-vagina? I'm trying to get a grip on what people are trying to accomplish.

Many people have talked about how sex is not important to them, so is the presence of a neo-vagina comforting in that penetration is an option after surgery, or is it that there are no visible markers of being male post-surgery? Does the comfort one feels after surgery come from feeling satisfied with their lack of male genitalia, the presence of female-performing genitalia, that acceptance of other females and males because of that lack of genitalia, or all of the above. Or is it just so that you can have sex like other females? What is so important about being post-op?

I take it then, that a person that had a nullification is also not considered post-op if no neo-vagina is created? For my own purposes  > I consider a woman to be female when I can penetrate her. Anally does not count for me, although lots of lesbians are into that. So, I would not want to be with a woman that had the colon-resection surgery either. ::ick:: But that is just me. It seems like post-op has a completely different meaning than woman, which I guess fits in with the mantra that gender and sex are seperate.

What I am most curious about, is whether the drive to be post-op, is driven more by internal or external factors. Internal being the feelings one has about their own body image, and external being the acceptance or rejection one feels coming back from friends and acquaintences regarding their body appearance.

Since the majority of people one meets or spends time with will never see their sexual anatomy, it would "seem" to indicate that that societal judgments would be a minor factor in contemplating GRS. But the postings I read constantly seem to indicate behaviour driven by the need for acceptance in society, even though society will never know. So, is it fear of going to a male prison? Or fear of exposure after a car accident or during other surgery?
Or is it because you hated your birth genitalia so much that you felt the need to change it?

I know that I am going off into the yonder here, but since the definition for post-op is going to continue to evolve along with technology, I wanted to know how we got from orchiectomy as post-op to colon-resection surgery as post-op?  OK. New thread. Who does the polls here?

Is colon-resection GRS superior to penile-inversion GRS, and why if so?

Colon resection is considered inferior.  It comes with it signficant medical problems that are not present with penile-inversion.  There is a reason why penile-inversion is a prefered technique by any reputable surgeon.  Fewer risks, fewer complications.
More than likely one stage surgeries are going to be standard practice in the next few years as well. 

For me seeking SRS is multi-fold.
First it is deep frustration with my body.  Being male in that way never made sense and I utterly despise it.  So hating that part of my body comes first and foremost. 

Second is the legal recognition it carriers, basically it allows one to change all documents in the US if you were fortunate enough to live in a state where that can be done.  As much as people talk about the societal acceptance that FFS brings, it does not change ones documents, and those documents can lead to major issues if you do not have them fixed.  Incongruent documents can lead to just as many problems as the way you look, except the problems are more subtle, but just a sinister. 
Also it is very difficult to be in a relationship unless you are post-op, and for some people that level of societal acceptance is key.

Everybody has differant reasons.  For me societal acceptance is not as important as self acceptance.   For me the only way I can accept myself and get over my own discomfort is to go through the process and eventually get the surgery.  I am not saying it will solve everything, but at least I will achieve some sort of peace.   

[Butterfly]

~laugh~ everything is evolving.  All surgeries are, not only gender reassignment.  So, shall we change the meaning of post-op brain tumor surgery (or open-heart surgery) to something of a lesser importance just because "everything" is changing.  What about mastectomies for women with breast cancer? .  Shall the removal of a nipple be called a mastectomy just because everything is "evolving"...I think not.

[Thundra]

~laugh~ everything is evolving.  All surgeries are, not only gender reassignment.  So, shall we change the meaning of post-op brain tumor surgery (or open-heart surgery) to something of a lesser importance just because "everything" is changing.  What about mastectomies for women with breast cancer? .  Shall the removal of a nipple be called a mastectomy just because everything is "evolving"...I think not.

Yes, yes, that is a cute answer and all, but if the topic of discussion was simply for someone to state a definition that anyone could look up for themselves, than what was the point of posting the topic? If everything could be reduced to a definition that everyone else agreed upon, than there would never be a reason to discuss anything, now would there? Then wouldn't life be boring?

Apples and oranges. Comparing a masectomy to GRS based on the fact that both are a type of surgery, is in my opinion silly. In a mastectomy, you remove a body part -- period. You may use different techniques to accomplish that end, but a mastectomy means the same thing now as previously. But GRS, has changed over the years. Tink's post a while back quoted removal of penis, creation of neo-vagina, labia and clitoris. Have surgeons always completed all of those tasks since day one, the same way?  I think not. The surgery has only become commonplace for the last couple of decades, and the estimates are that maybe 20,000 people have had the GRS, so yeah, I think any surgeon will tell you that it is evolving, and each patient has different requirements.

Going back to the first point, if someone posted this question, than I am going to assume that left open an opportunity to expound on what YOU felt about this subject. I am from a different generation than a lot of you, obviously, and back in my day, GRS was not the norm.
But things change. In five or ten years, who knows what they will be doing?

Here is a question for all of you that think post-op will always mean the same thing. If transplantation becomes possible, or stem cell research allows creation of your own female organs, would GRS still be considered post-op? I bet the people getting the new surgeries would not think so. They would think of people that had penile-inversion GRS the same way that people now think of orchiectomy, or nullification. When you depend on technology for your definition, than technology is going to creep on by and leave you behind.

[Seshatneferw]

The real problem here is not really post op, it's meaning. Just what exactly the meaning of a word (or another linguistic expression) is is something that has been argued for at least a couple of millennia, and the jury is still out.

Personally, I'd look at the question from the point of view of prototypes. Most of us have some idea of a prototypical of post op -- 'someone who has had their genitals surgically altered to be as close to their target gender as commonly possible' might be a reasonably good approximation. I think most of us could agree on this. The real question is how far from this prototype one can go and still be considered post op, and this is where our disagreements come up. There is no single, universally accepted (or definable) limit to how a word can be used; it's all a matter of how (and in what kind of contexts) various people use it. Which, of course, was the point of the original question. 

  Nfr

[DarkLady]

As I understand it means that vaginoplasty has been complited. So no external male genitalia and vagina. The borderline is that you have undegone vaginoplasty and your vagina has collapsed.
Post Merge: May 15, 2009, 01:27:56 PM
My other external female genitals are not clearly visible (however they were after SRS) I still am post-op? Or am I?

[DarkLady]

So I am not post-op???

[DarkLady]

I didn't say it would definitelyhappen.  Much of it depends on the laws for the area you are sentenced and thrown in prison.  However, it does happen even after SRS:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1598819,00.html

The point is that if somebody is found to have a penis, they will be assumed male regardless of paperwork.  For instance, I haven't had surgery and my license says female on it, plus I pass. According to local laws (at least in Oregon), I would be placed in a separate prison for transgendered.  The only way they would really know I was TS was if they did do a strip search on me and this would most likely be the case.  They see a penis, then they see you as NOT female.

In fact, did you know that in California there is actually a law to castrate sex offenders after a second offense?

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/extract/336/14/1030

If they perfform orchi's on prisoners, what makes you think they would consider sending you to a women's prison?
According to Amy T. (an attorney on here), you can not legally be female if you have only had an orchi.

What may be actually worse than male prison.
Post Merge: May 15, 2009, 01:33:05 PM

If you have an orchi and get arrested, sentenced to prison, and strip searched, guess which prison you're going in?  The men's.  It won't matter how much you cry that you're post-op.

That is what I do in case something silly accident or my old problems drive me to prison.

[Jeannette]

You've got to be joking me.  Not this again!

[Vexing]

I had a mole removed from my back 10 years ago.
Colour me post-op!

[myles]

You've got to be joking me.  Not this again!

My thought exactly!

[Steph]

Judging by dates of the posts it's almost a year ago since this thread was last posted too. 

I had a mole removed from my back 10 years ago.
Colour me post-op!

You're not post-op unless the hole left by the mole removal created a vagina.  Na it was on your back so it's still not post-op under this topic LOL

and away we go...

-={LR}=-