Who could detransition?

[Nero]

While I've heard of a one or two post-ops who detransitioned, I wonder if it is more common for people to detransition who haven't gone very far in transition yet. Seems like there are a number of people who began transition, perhaps started hormones but didn't get far before turning back. Only to try again years later. Seems less common for people who developed a lot of permanency in their transition - physical characteristics, name, gender change, etc to detransition. Those things just make it harder to do so on a whim. Thoughts?

[Rayalisse]

Since I'm not full-time with either gender I switch between boy and girl mode all the time, sometimes multiple times a day, as the situation warrants. 

Still a girl inside, even if I have to act the part of a boy.  But I'm early in my own transition anyway.  I don't think I could go full-time as either gender right now.  Could I pose/ act in boy mode for a long time in public? At this point probably.  Would I call it detransitioning? Not really -- more like transition-pause.  However, I agree if I was already fulltime it would probably be harder to go back to presenting as my birth gender all the time, and i probably still wouldn't at home, where I can be myself.

Cheers -
Rayalisse

[Izumi]

I'll kill myself before I detransition.

Totally, 100% serious.

From the moment I realized transition was an option, it's, for me, a one way street, I either make it or I die along the way, but there is no going back.

Same

[FairyGirl]

While I've heard of a one or two post-ops who detransitioned, I wonder if it is more common for people to detransition who haven't gone very far in transition yet.

Transition for me was not becoming someone I wasn't already, but becoming someone I was and the shedding of someone I wasn't. So to me detransition would be the same as saying go back to something you are not and never could be, i.e., living a lie. I think a lot of us feel that way and that is why there are so many "I would die first" replies. I am female inside and out, and for anyone with similar feelings about their gender the thought of detransition is horrifying.

I think Nero has a good point in that there would be more detransitioners who try it and simply discover it isn't who they are, or isn't worth the trouble, rather than those who have already completed transition, because for the latter group that would be transitioning all over again back the other direction as they obviously would feel they are now in the wrong body. Sheesh it gives me the heebie jeebies just to think about it

[MaggieB]

I have seriously considered it from time to time only because I want to have acceptance again. After a couple years of freedom from most of the anguish of living as a male, the hurts I feel come from external sources. Being rejected by my wife, lack of intimacy, social discrimination, fear of being attacked and that ever present question, "What do I tell them, this time, about my past?" all contribute to my considering going back to living as a male.

However, a few minutes of imagining my current body in mens clothes, having my hair cut in a male style and lowering my voice, which is not easy to do now, then I come back to my senses.  I remember just how insidious it was, minute by minute, not being able to live as who I really am. I remember the way my entire life was consumed by the lie I was living. Then my emotional pain from being ostracized comes into perspective again. I'm happier now and will stay true to myself.

Maggie

[K8]

Addressing Nero's question, I think that transition is a long process, with many places to bail out.  I looked at it as a series of doors to pass through.  Each time I opened a door I wanted to open the next one.  But some people may find that isn't right for them.  Usually GRS is the last door.

I think that I may have been able to live a reasonable life without transitioning.  However, once I started – once I smelled the fresh air of freedom – I couldn't go back.  It would have been too hard.  I think it would be very hard to fit myself back into the constraints of pretending to be male.  For one thing, I'd slip up a lot more than I used to when that was all I knew.

All that said, even though I can't imagine a scenario where I would detransition life has a way of throwing you in situations you couldn't imagine.  Transition and detransition are intensely personal decisions, and I would not fault anyone for either.  Since we don't know all the factors that go into another's decision, we can only wish them well whatever they decide is right for them.

- Kate

[Tammy Hope]

Well, every day for the last 6 months or so I've had the most motivating circumstance possibly pressed upon me to detransition (albeit, i've not crossed any points of no return physically) - there is no offer or threat which can be made that is more compelling that that which is already here - and it hasn't been enough to change my mind, I'm thus forced to conclude no such circumstance exists.

[Nicky]

Even after I knew that moving forward would be the end of my relationship with my wife, I could not stop.

Now slightly further down the track I am not even sure I would know how to live that guy again. At the thought of it I just feel this tension in my whole body, stomach clenching. Was it like this all the time as a guy? Maybe it was. God that is awful. Poor Nick, the ->-bleeped-<- he had to put up with. 

If I tried now I am sure I would look like a girl pretending to be a boy. And then once my hormones changed back ahhhhhh, omg, horror.

It just seems impossible to me to go back. I burnt the bridge.

[lilacwoman]

[quote author=SydneyTinker l
It's a bit of a technicality, as they all know way too much about my personal life from the details read off when the charges were pressed in the last business meeting. (Somebody had even gone to the Circuit Clerk's office to pull my petition for legal name change.)

[/quote]

Golly! Those Masons are an uptight bunch.  But can you weara nice frilly housewifely pinafore over the suit - to fit in with the Masonic aprons theme?

[lilacwoman]

While I've heard of a one or two post-ops who detransitioned, I wonder if it is more common for people to detransition who haven't gone very far in transition yet.

I've seen the figure of 90% quoted as being the people who make some effort to see if they are the opposite sex.  They go to a shrink or crossdress in private but can't do it in public and abandon all thought of being TS.
I've only seen a few post-ops who detransitioned and all rushed through transition and srs before getting used to lack of maleness and the 'time wasting frivolities' of female life such as shopping and having to makeup before going out the door.
I have read one surgeon say that he has had a few post-ops come back to him and say they have made a mistake and his answer is 'sorry, you asked for it to be chopped off and there is nothing that can be done to replace it.'
But then a couple of years ago there was a case in UK where one of these guys rushed through srs and then sued and got the NHS to give him a penis again at great cost.  Then last I heard he was saying he wanted to get married but maybe get a boyfriend.  so he wasn't totally stable.

[Dinky_Di]

In three words only, Never, Couldn't, Wouldn't........

[K8]

I've seen the figure of 90% quoted as being the people who make some effort to see if they are the opposite sex.  They go to a shrink or crossdress in private but can't do it in public and abandon all thought of being TS.
I've only seen a few post-ops who detransitioned and all rushed through transition and srs before getting used to lack of maleness and the 'time wasting frivolities' of female life such as shopping and having to makeup before going out the door.
I have read one surgeon say that he has had a few post-ops come back to him and say they have made a mistake and his answer is 'sorry, you asked for it to be chopped off and there is nothing that can be done to replace it.'
But then a couple of years ago there was a case in UK where one of these guys rushed through srs and then sued and got the NHS to give him a penis again at great cost.  Then last I heard he was saying he wanted to get married but maybe get a boyfriend.  so he wasn't totally stable.

Much as people complain about the requirement for the period of Real Life Experience, I believe it is really for the benefit of the person transitioning.  It seems like all the stories of people who later regretted GRS are people who cut corners and gamed the system.

If you don't experience living in your target gender for a while before surgery, how are you going to manage to live that way for the rest of your life?  If you can't bring yourself to go out the door as your true gender, having your privates re-arranged isn't going to magically transform you.

*Kate sips her coffee and grumbles*

- Kate

[lilacwoman]

[quote author=K8
If you don't experience living in your target gender for a while before surgery, how are you going to manage to live that way for the rest of your life?  If you can't bring yourself to go out the door as your true gender, having your privates re-arranged isn't going to magically transform you.
- Kate
[/quote]

Precisely! But in my town there is agitation to try get the RLE banned and for very faster srs but if the RLE and hormones stage hasn't been long enough to stop all male behaviour and sex then how can they know they will be happy without it?

[rejennyrated]

Much as people complain about the requirement for the period of Real Life Experience, I believe it is really for the benefit of the person transitioning.  It seems like all the stories of people who later regretted GRS are people who cut corners and gamed the system.

If you don't experience living in your target gender for a while before surgery, how are you going to manage to live that way for the rest of your life?  If you can't bring yourself to go out the door as your true gender, having your privates re-arranged isn't going to magically transform you.

*Kate sips her coffee and grumbles*

- Kate

The only thing is K8 - some of us effectively live our RLE BEFORE we seek medical help and such is the climate of mistrust that we then risk getting lumped in with those who are trying to buck the system when we want to move forward more rapidly based on a childhood spent more or less in target gender.

I know it was a long time ago when I went through it all, but I still encounter people to whom this has happened. So with greatest respect to both you and Lilac - and without wishing to derail this thread I do think the key to success is flexibility.

Of those who have detransitioned that I have seen it is often caused by inflexibilty either on the part of the transitioner or those around them. So my take on detransition is that the more rules you put in place to try to protect people from themselves the more you risk treating a set of rules and not an individual human being in all the complexity of their circumstances.

[juliekins]

I can detransition to some degree or other for up to maybe a few hours. Assuming the Masonic charges against me at my Lodge make it far enough that we go to trial (in a few months, I'm estimating), I'll take out the earrings, wipe off the makeup, and put on a suit for the trial.

Sydney, what kind of an organization is this that is putting you "on trial"? Is it men only? If you are living f/t and have changed your name, why would you want to present yourself as male?

I'm not passing judgment on you, but I am curious.

Heck, I'm a rabble rouser. I'd go in there wearing a short skirt and heels!

[spacial]

I went back, partly because of fear, partly because I just couldn't find the resources or support.

I posted a picture of me when I was living properly, from many years ago. I recalled, before finding that picture, many of the things I felt then. But seeing it has brought so much more back.

I remember that, inside, I felt a peace, with myself and the world. I could relate to the world as me rather than continually having to figure out how to behave.

There was a warmth in my stomach, whereas now I have this exposure in my middle. I don't know if that makes sense. I'm so conscious of the ugly bits. They are the dirty. They are the reason I couldn't play with my friends and had to be tough. They hurt, they smell, they look terrible and I couldn't give any male companions the pleasure that I wanted to.

I've just finished a short job, filling in for someone who was away. I work in building. Today, since I wasn't going to be back on Tuesday, many of the men were wishing me well, as they do. But several asked if I was gay. I hadn't realised but I've been relating to people in a much warmer, more open manner. The job is in a maternity hospital, a refurb on one of the floors. We've seen a few of the babies of course. I suppose that put a big smile on my face.

I am determined not to give into regret. Regret is for suckers. We need to deal with disappointments and loss by learning. That is what being human is.

If I have a vicarious interest in any others here it is in rejennyrated and Jerica. Jenny has achieved so much and while I'm sure she will be the first to say she had many advantages, not least brilliant parents, I doubt it has come without struggle. Jerica is such a charming and beautiful person who is facing her challanges with  more strength than I had. I look at the contentment in her pretty face and know how she feels.

The last week has renewed my faith in myself. Sorry if this post doesn't have anything constructive.

[Ayaname]

I could never do it. The only reason I transitioned in the first place was because I was becoming suicidal as a male. There have been a few times where it looked like circumstances might get in the way of my ability to continue transitioning and every time I immediately started thinking of ways to die.

[Miniar]

I've been thinking about this question since it was posted.
I didn't want to answer without thinking it through.

I could say no, just no, and leave it that, but there's a theoretical possibility I might be convinced otherwise, if my loved one's lives depended on it.
I know I keep telling people not to sacrifice themselves for other people and yet do it myself.
Done it for almost my whole life.
This is the first thing I can honestly say I'm doing because "I" need to, and it's a little bit out of character for me and so I can reasonably state that there's a chance I might slip into old habits and put myself on hold for sake of others, if my buttons were pushed enough.

It's partially for this reason that I've avoided one of my sisters, as I think that if the topic came up with her that she'd start asking me about what this'll mean for my daughter. As in,.. what if she gets bullied cause her mom's a homo.. or whatever.
meh..

just made myself a little depressed with that.

[Tammy Hope]

I'm not bucking against RLE, I don't have any issue doing it (although, like Jenny, it will piss me off if I go to a therapist 2 years after i went full time and I'm told "the clock starts now") but here's where i have a problem with it, intellectually:

what we are asked to do is live full time as a woman. but that's not what we ACTUALLY do. what we ACTUALLY do, unless we can relocate and pass well enough to go stealth, is live full time as a (in the eyes of too many and under the rules of society) a freak.

for instance, no GG ever has to face any worry about which restroom she uses; she never has to be fired for cross-gender appearance; no GG has to risk assault for the same; no GG has to face the rejection of many loved ones because she's a woman, no GG ever has to go through things like electrolysis and HRT to verify her womanhood.

all of this second-class citizenship and more is part and parcel of the RLE.

Yes, GG's face gender based discrimination, but I'm speaking of another layer on top of that. Chronic unemployment, difficulty getting proper health care....a hundred subtle ways that what we experience during the RLE is NOT in fact the life of the average woman.

I think that the trans community would have a lot less problem with the RLE if it didn't cost us our jobs and the respect of our friends and all the rest.

that said -

all those factors make spending a year in the target gender that much more necessary, because a huge part of what we must "see if we can handle" is exactly that aforementioned set of drama.

A potential transitioner needs to see if they can face the loss of a spouse or a parent or a job.....and still want it bad enough to move forward.

But it's an inaccuracy to call it "living life as any other woman" because it's considerably more than that.


As far as "gatekeepers" - I have a lot more problem with gatekeepers between us and HRT than I do between us and surgery. Provided that the latter gatekeepers are simply checking for other potential psychosis which might lead to a bad outcome and not trying to see if we are "real transgenders"

[Tammy Hope]

I know I keep telling people not to sacrifice themselves for other people and yet do it myself.
Done it for almost my whole life.
This is the first thing I can honestly say I'm doing because "I" need to, and it's a little bit out of character for me

I can say exactly the same thing.

which is why it is such torture when she pulls out ALL the stops to beg, bully, or buffalo me into giving it up. I'm frankly amazed I've made it this far.

But the fact that i have is what convinces me I will never go back - i've had all tyhe possible reasons to already thrown at me and i'm still here.