Two questions i've been dying to ask

[tekla]

What clothing you wear, or want to wear is not a gender issue, it's a fashion problem.  That not determined by birth, gender, god or biology - its designed and created and marketed by humans, for money.

[insideontheoutside]

1. Have you ever found t-girls attractive and, would you ever date one?

2. How does it feel to wear guy's clothing vs. girls clothing?

#1 - Attractive is such a relative term ... what's attractive to one person may not be to another and all that. Personally, I've seen many attractive t-girls. I never really limited myself as far as dating went (not that I did a lot of dating) - I would get attracted to a person and sometimes something might spark and sometimes not.

#2 - All of my girl clothing is not very girly. Never owned skirts or dresses. The number of times I've been in a dress (after the age of 2) I can count on one hand. That has always felt very uncomfortable to me.

[Eve of chaos]

What clothing you wear, or want to wear is not a gender issue, it's a fashion problem.  That not determined by birth, gender, god or biology - its designed and created and marketed by humans, for money.

beautifully said.

it's not like all the scene boys wearing the girls pants are trans anyway.

[CaitJ]

Whereas girls tend to be more drawn towards things that are pretty, and would put prettiness before functionality every time!

That's pretty much gender binarism bull->-bleeped-<-. The bulk of it is down to socialisation.

[tekla]

That's pretty much gender binarism bull->-bleeped-<-.

I thought that was pretty much the general idea for most people.  I see more stereotypes being pushed on here than on FreeRepublic.

[insideontheoutside]

I thought that was pretty much the general idea for most people.  I see more stereotypes being pushed on here than on FreeRepublic.

It's because many people are concerned about "passing" (whether they're MTF or FTM) - they have to get past the passing point to feel the confidence needed to basically say screw it to fashion etc. At least that's how I look at it. I've seen some people post AFTER they do get some confidence that they're not afraid to then "go out of bounds" of the "normal" gender-defined fashion, mannerisms, etc.

I'm not really worried about passing because I'm not transitioning into anything. But when people are really concerned about being read as only male or only female it seems that the stereotypical male or female things are what they do most often. Like I said, that's not me, but I think that's an answer for the phenomenon.

[xAndrewx]

It's because many people are concerned about "passing" (whether they're MTF or FTM) - they have to get past the passing point to feel the confidence needed to basically say screw it to fashion etc. At least that's how I look at it. I've seen some people post AFTER they do get some confidence that they're not afraid to then "go out of bounds" of the "normal" gender-defined fashion, mannerisms, etc.

I entirely agree with that. I love pink and purple mens polo shirts but I look female when wearing them. Once I've been on T for a while and am seen as a man wearing them instead of a female wearing them my clothing taste will change a bit.

To answer the original questions

1. yes and yes
2. I don't see the point in girls clothes truthfully. I've been wearing guys clothes since I was old enough to dress myself. Cheaper, like today I just went out and bought a pack of 3 T-shirts for $6. Nice and simple. Plus women's jean pockets just don't make sense to me. Why are they so short? I always have to carry my moms keys if she doesn't want to use a purse because the pockets are so small. 

[CaitJ]

That's pretty much gender binarism bull->-bleeped-<-.

I thought that was pretty much the general idea for most people.

Ayup.

[Robert F.]

1. Yes and yes. Like others, I'd never not date a girl just because she's trans. I also would never date a girl simply because she was attractive. It comes down to personality for me.

2. I've been wearing guy's clothes since I was about six or seven years old. Except for jeans. My mom decided that if I would wear boy shirts, I had to wear girl jeans. But then I just stole my brother's, haha. I definitely prefer male clothes. They're far more comfortable, I find, and more practical. I have one pair of girl jeans that I wear because I like the way they fit around my calves and ankles. They're ridiculously thin, probably because they're made to make your hips more noticeable. I can hardly fit my phone in the front pocket, my iPod doesn't fit at all, and my wallet apparently didn't fit in the back pocket, because it fell out and was stolen a few weeks ago.
I have a particular pair of mens' jeans that have pockets nearly half a foot deep. Everything fits ^_^

[insideontheoutside]

I can hardly fit my phone in the front pocket, my iPod doesn't fit at all, and my wallet apparently didn't fit in the back pocket, because it fell out and was stolen a few weeks ago.
I have a particular pair of mens' jeans that have pockets nearly half a foot deep. Everything fits ^_^

You know, I just have to comment on the pocket thing. WTF is with pockets in women's jeans? You can't even fit your whole hand in there. Do they just assume women don't use pockets for anything?

[CaitJ]

You know, I just have to comment on the pocket thing. WTF is with pockets in women's jeans? You can't even fit your whole hand in there. Do they just assume women don't use pockets for anything?

I think the only thing I own with pockets in it is my dressing gown. My handbag is used for everything else.

[Michael Joseph]

I think the only thing I own with pockets in it is my dressing gown. My handbag is used for everything else.

My friends and I had a discussion that lasted like a half hour a few weeks ago about why mens pockets are soooo much deeper. I think we just came to the conclusion that girls have purses to put everything in. I just know that I keep my keys, wallet, phone, and cigarettes in my pockets, so its a good thing their so deep.. definitely a lot more practical.

[JosephKT]

1.  My attraction to women is 50% based on, horribly and selfishly, how masculine she makes me feel.  So it really doesn't matter if she's trans or not.  The other 50% if her personality is compatible and mine and my friends.  Even with just an E-pen I'm caught by the men have only enough blood to think with one head rule.  This is not something I'm proud of.

2.  I've kinda learned to treat wearing women's clothing like cosplaying or being a drag-queen.  Since I usually only wear women's clothes for "special occasions" or seeing my family, I've kinda learned to treat the make-up, wigs or extensions, heels, etc. as "playing dress up."  Sounds weird I know, but I almost enjoy it when it's only on occasion at this point.  Like hey, why only wear a costume for Halloween and Anime/Comic Conventions.

As far as girls liking pretty, pretty shiny and trans guys being more masculine goes.  Sure, I do most my male bonding by working out at each others' martial arts studios, playing table-top war games or online war games, or drink a whole lot and then rough house with each other with boffer weapons, or I don't know, pee standing up.  All very nice and "macho."  But at the same time, the guy on this link, is my guide of what I want to look like.  To most people he's not really the definition of masculinity, and there are plenty of fashion over function stuff on him.  http://parkminnie.wordpress.com/2009/05/16/taegoon-dressed-to-kill-photo-shoot/

I even took his photo to my hair dresser to cut it like his  XD

[KillBelle]

1.  My attraction to women is 50% based on, horribly and selfishly, how masculine she makes me feel.  So it really doesn't matter if she's trans or not.  The other 50% if her personality is compatible and mine and my friends.  Even with just an E-pen I'm caught by the men have only enough blood to think with one head rule.  This is not something I'm proud of.

2.  I've kinda learned to treat wearing women's clothing like cosplaying or being a drag-queen.  Since I usually only wear women's clothes for "special occasions" or seeing my family, I've kinda learned to treat the make-up, wigs or extensions, heels, etc. as "playing dress up."  Sounds weird I know, but I almost enjoy it when it's only on occasion at this point.  Like hey, why only wear a costume for Halloween and Anime/Comic Conventions.

As far as girls liking pretty, pretty shiny and trans guys being more masculine goes.  Sure, I do most my male bonding by working out at each others' martial arts studios, playing table-top war games or online war games, or drink a whole lot and then rough house with each other with boffer weapons, or I don't know, pee standing up.  All very nice and "macho."  But at the same time, the guy on this link, is my guide of what I want to look like.  To most people he's not really the definition of masculinity, and there are plenty of fashion over function stuff on him.  http://parkminnie.wordpress.com/2009/05/16/taegoon-dressed-to-kill-photo-shoot/

I even took his photo to my hair dresser to cut it like his  XD

How interesting, yes i am the same way too girly-wise. I think it is because i grew up in a very strict asian family where my mother...when she found out i was trans, was surprisingly very supportive and raised me as a girl. So therefore raised me with strict female gender roles. And i like that, i am kind of the stereotypical feminine girl and my dream has always been to play the hot housewife one day haha. I love being feminine and i like macho guys, mostly because i follow that traditional female role without giving up my liberties as the modern woman. we all indulge in a little of that conventional gender display, it's normal =]

[KillBelle]

All I have to say is - is that you in your avatar? 

yes =]

[Luc]

1. Yeah, I've found transchicks attractive. Heck, I was married to one for a couple years. Too many issues... but that was her. That's not all transwomen. I'm with a gg now, but it makes no difference to me. I'm attracted to the person, not the anatomy, natal or otherwise.

2. I abhor women's clothing, on myself. On women, it's great. However, I pretty well object to the entire concept that men's clothing is made better, costs less, and is more comfortable than women's, because it seems a travesty for women. When I was a kid and unable to choose my own clothing, I never did understand why everything available to me had to have frills, or why it fell apart within weeks. I'll stick with my men's attire... it might be boring in style and sometimes color, but at least it's comfy.

As per age, I'm 28. I think the younger folks on here just have more time for internet whatnot.

SD

[JosephKT]

How interesting, yes i am the same way too girly-wise. I think it is because i grew up in a very strict asian family where my mother...when she found out i was trans, was surprisingly very supportive and raised me as a girl. So therefore raised me with strict female gender roles. And i like that, i am kind of the stereotypical feminine girl and my dream has always been to play the hot housewife one day haha. I love being feminine and i like macho guys, mostly because i follow that traditional female role without giving up my liberties as the modern woman. we all indulge in a little of that conventional gender display, it's normal =]

And this is when I do a double coming out to my parents, them on one side of the couch and us the the other, wearing a full suit bearing gift of whatever fruit is in season, saying "Mother, Father, I'm male.  Also, meet the woman of my dreams.  Mom, stop crying, she'll be a great daughter-in-law, I swear.  Oh, you're still getting over the first part... well you can't say I don't look dapper, right?" 

-sigh- I wish so hard I could be allowed to be a son for my parents.  Sorry to drag you into my fantasy.  I think my dream of being "proper son" is even worse because I'm first-born.

[lilacwoman]

there is no gender binarism, however every Saturday afternoon the shops are full of females choosing pretty things, and there are more of these shops than shops selling plain stuff that males buy, and the vast majority of females buying the pretty things do look stereotypically female and the males buying male stuff do look and act like stereotypical males.

[KillBelle]

And this is when I do a double coming out to my parents, them on one side of the couch and us the the other, wearing a full suit bearing gift of whatever fruit is in season, saying "Mother, Father, I'm male.  Also, meet the woman of my dreams.  Mom, stop crying, she'll be a great daughter-in-law, I swear.  Oh, you're still getting over the first part... well you can't say I don't look dapper, right?" 

-sigh- I wish so hard I could be allowed to be a son for my parents.  Sorry to drag you into my fantasy.  I think my dream of being "proper son" is even worse because I'm first-born.

Thats so interesting haha, it's so refreshing to meet another Asian transperson. Just culturally it is a totally different experience trying to be an American while clinging on to Asian values too. I remember in high school i was trying super hard to please my parents by getting straight A's (anything else was considered fail...even an A- would get a sigh of disappointment from my mother) and balancing my gender confusion. I am soooo lucky that my parents were so amazingly understanding, i was not first born....but i was the youngest and my mother has always wanted a girl, there were 5 boys. When she knew i was trans she definitely took the chance to raise me to be a proper lady. STrangely i havent encountered many or any issues blossoming, it came pretty natural for me.

[KillBelle]

there is no gender binarism, however every Saturday afternoon the shops are full of females choosing pretty things, and there are more of these shops than shops selling plain stuff that males buy, and the vast majority of females buying the pretty things do look stereotypically female and the males buying male stuff do look and act like stereotypical males.

I think everyone is guilty somewhat of filling in those stereotypes whether we like it or not, i mean, why deny it? Even for me sometimes i hate being so stereotypically female in that after i take a shower i always have to put lotion on afterward, or i cannot trust my bf to cook dinner because i like to decorate the garnish with little flowers, or use the best china for guests, or the light dimmer has to be orchestrated perfectly with the type of music that is playing. But i'd hate changing the tires or lifting anything.