self esteem

[tekla]

From the Mayo Clinic's web site:

Mayo Clinic has a long history of providing care to patients regardless of their ability to pay. Our primary value is "the needs of the patient come first."

Mayo Clinic provides services to meet the needs of patients who are unable to pay for care. These services include:
Helping patients find sources to fund their care, including opportunities to work with outside agencies.
Using fair and consistent collection practices that are in the best interest of all parties involved.
Providing individualized payment plans, medical services at reduced rates or at no cost — based upon the patient's ability to pay.
Providing emergency care to stabilize patients, regardless of ability to pay.
Mayo Clinic has developed a process for directing patients to alternative sources of funding for their medical care. Mayo Clinic determines a patient's need for charity care based on financial information and the medical services needed. The financial information includes the patient's individual and family income, assets, employment status, family size and availability of alternative sources of payment. Mayo Clinic's charity care policy requires that the medical services must be extraordinary and unique to Mayo (i.e., services that are not readily available at medical centers closer to the patient's home).

[Kinkly]

How do you build it and what makes you feel confident?

Also, if you could present physically as your ideal how would it look?

I can't figure out how I would like to present, or rather what I would like to look like. I know what makes me feel more comfortable, but not what I feel like could express fully how I feel.

confidence building can happen in a lot of different ways I've lived through some heavy crap medically and emotionally I've found having goals that I might never achieve that have lots of little steps each little step that I achieve builds my confidence.  With my apearence my ultimate goal is to be seen as a bearded Lady the early steps were very small because I didn't have the confidence to wear what I wanted so I started with just underwear and androgynous clothling I changed from just going to shops that cater for "both" genders to shops that only do female  clothes early days I'd shop with a female and get her to buy the items now I'm always presenting as a bearded man with breasts in female clothes and I buy everything for myself and often shop without a friend and when I do I make it clear that it is for me every time I push the limit I build confidence to do so even more next time, I was originally told that if I wear a dress with my beard I would get bashed
I now know that harsh words are the worst punishment most people use in a public place (for being different).   unfortunatily working toward one goal won't give confidence toward other goals but it can give confidence to try different things personly I think building confidence in being true to yourself it is a brings a major boost in happyness but when forced to be something your not It can be a Major Issue and feels like Hell.  always work toward doing something you enjoy or toward presenting as what feels right for you.  If unsure of how you wish to present I would only suggest tryng to work out how you can express who you are.  and to keep your eyes open as to what other genderqueer/androgynes do (youtube is your friend)  and try putting your own slant on what ever appeals
I hope there is something of use in what I have typed

[rite_of_inversion]

I have Major Depressive Disorder....which gets a field promotion to General Disaster when not on properly working happy pills. I also have really spectacular allergies and fairly bad asthma.   I have a couple of inhalers and pop pills like a Pac-Man to support my oxygen habit; either asthma or suicidality could, in fact, take me out-I get that bad astonishingly fast.  Probably the depression is more dangerous these days-I'm on industrial-strength asthma meds.

Basically, I can't do the things which cause me to like myself, build a successful life unless my physical health and mood disorder are under control.  Challenges met build self-esteem...if you're chronically exhausted, you can't face those challenges successfully, if you face them at all.

So I'd tell you to get after your physical health first...and if you're still down on yourself after getting the physical issues taken care of, get meds AND at least a brief course of therapy, which work better than either alone.
Part of therapy ought to be help in setting some goals for, say, the next five years.

Being the busybody I am, I'll suggest a degree if you haven't already got one, and if you do, go get a master's.

[Jaimey]

I agree with most of what's been said on here (I've forgotten now what I just read, but anyway). 

First, I can tell you that I beat my depression by simply deciding that I was not going to be sad or angry or depressed anymore.  You always feel those things coming on, so what I did was figure out a few things that always make me happy (like puppies, kittens, etc) and when I felt all that depression mess coming on, I stopped and forced myself to think about those things and forced myself to feel happy.  We know what happy feels like.  You can force yourself to feel happy.  It took a LOT of work and a long time (we'll say 3-ish years), but now I am rarely bothered by those feelings and I know how to stop them.  You have to be a warrior, but it's worth it.  I literally sat down one day and said, "I'm tired of being depressed and by god, I'm not going to anymore."  I firmly believe that most anything can be overcome through a sheer force of will. 

Second, and this has been said, I think confidence comes from an acceptance of failure.  You have the right to try things and to fail at them.  You can't succeed if you don't try at all.  Once I allowed failure to be an acceptable thing within myself, a HUGE burden was lifted from me...not only that, but I think I'm much more successful now because I was able to find myself and what I wanted to do once I allowed myself to fail.

You have to learn to like yourself.  I like myself very much and if someone doesn't like me, then that's their loss.  That attitude might sound arrogant, but you'll drive yourself crazy if you try to be someone that other people like. 

As for finding things that you like or might want to do, that just takes some searching.  Stopping feelings of apathy will take some serious work, but you can do it, again, through will.  You just have to be determined to feel something.  I learned what I wanted to do while I was working at a job that I absolutely loathed.  I processed health care claims...it can pay the bills if you stick with it, but after a year, I realized I'd rather flip burgers for the rest of my life than spend another day at that place.  While I worked, I thought about all the things I could be doing (and I had a LOT of time to think...claims processing is mindless work).  After I considered many, many options, I determined what would make me happiest (writing fiction and teaching at a university).  It takes time, but you can do it.

The key is to not give up, no matter what setbacks you may have.  You won't stop being depressed overnight.  I've always heard that it takes 3 weeks to create a new habit (and something like 30 days to break a habit, so be patient and allow yourself to fail.  Your life is yours to live and do with it as you choose.  You only need to make yourself happy.  If you make yourself happy, others will be happy for you.


As for the physical stuff, the key is working with what you've got (I think this was said earlier too).  There are very few people in the world who have the bodies that they desire, no matter what their gender status (even the most beautiful models have body image issues).  Look at what you've got and be happy that you have it.  I was always told that there is always someone worse off and that's true.  This goes along with the deciding to be happy thing too.  If you are happy with what you have, then you'll be happier in general.  I'd love to be 6'1", but I'm happy with my 5'6.5" frame.  Never beat yourself up over what you don't have.  Celebrate what you do have. 

[Pica Pica]

Jaimey, I do sometimes think we are photocopies of each other.

[Jaimey]

Jaimey, I do sometimes think we are photocopies of each other.

Indeed, dear.  Indeed.  And might I say "beautiful" photocopies. 

[marissak]

How do you build it and what makes you feel confident?

Also, if you could present physically as your ideal how would it look?

You have received a lot of amazing answers to your question. To build upon these answers, here's something you can do which has helped me in the past.

To building your self-esteem, you could do this exercise. Take a piece of paper and start writing 25 things you like about yourself. They could be physical or behavioral. If you cannot think about 25, write as many as you can. When you can think about more, write them down. If you have more than 25, that would be even better.

Once you have written these down, ask some people who know you about what they think are your best qualities. See if you can add to your list.

After you have completed this exercise, which may take a few days (it is okay), write down on another piece of paper how you would like to be seen 5 years from now. Not only by others but also by yourself. Do not limit these to gender-specific things. Be sure to include other things - for example you academics or career or friendships or relationships or knowledge or accomplishments or awards or travel or hobbies or health or exercise, etc.

The difference between where you are at now (your first list of 25+ things you like about yourself) and where you want to be 5 years from now (your second list about how you would like to be seen 5 years from now) will help you set your goals for the future. As Simone pointed out previously, if you can meet or exceed some or all of your goals, you will begin to feel greater self-esteem.

Of course, your lists will change with time. So you could revisit and revise these lists and reset your goals. You goals should be your goals, not based on someone else's goals. Lasting self-esteem takes time to build.

It is important to never base your self-esteem on another person. In other words, do not let someone else's acceptance or non-acceptance of you become the sole determinant of your self-esteem. Acceptance or non-acceptance by others should only be seen as the reason for re-evaluating what you have done which caused their reactions, and that re-evaluation need not necessarily result in a change in how you do things.

Regarding how to create your ideal physical look ... it takes time. People evolve. If you watch most common celebrities redesign their physical look over time. So do most non-celebrities. The physical is constantly changing, even if only gradually. It is important to be realistic with your goals for your physical look.

Start with a look that feels comfortable. Experiment a bit. And over time, you can incorporate your successful experiments into your look. 

[dustbunny]

From the Mayo Clinic's web site:

Mayo Clinic has a long history of providing care to patients regardless of their ability to pay. Our primary value is "the needs of the patient come first."

Mayo Clinic provides services to meet the needs of patients who are unable to pay for care. These services include:
Helping patients find sources to fund their care, including opportunities to work with outside agencies.
Using fair and consistent collection practices that are in the best interest of all parties involved.
Providing individualized payment plans, medical services at reduced rates or at no cost — based upon the patient's ability to pay.
Providing emergency care to stabilize patients, regardless of ability to pay.
Mayo Clinic has developed a process for directing patients to alternative sources of funding for their medical care. Mayo Clinic determines a patient's need for charity care based on financial information and the medical services needed. The financial information includes the patient's individual and family income, assets, employment status, family size and availability of alternative sources of payment. Mayo Clinic's charity care policy requires that the medical services must be extraordinary and unique to Mayo (i.e., services that are not readily available at medical centers closer to the patient's home).

Mayo is in Rochester which is quite a ways from here.

[dustbunny]

I have Major Depressive Disorder....which gets a field promotion to General Disaster when not on properly working happy pills. I also have really spectacular allergies and fairly bad asthma.   I have a couple of inhalers and pop pills like a Pac-Man to support my oxygen habit; either asthma or suicidality could, in fact, take me out-I get that bad astonishingly fast.  Probably the depression is more dangerous these days-I'm on industrial-strength asthma meds.

Basically, I can't do the things which cause me to like myself, build a successful life unless my physical health and mood disorder are under control.  Challenges met build self-esteem...if you're chronically exhausted, you can't face those challenges successfully, if you face them at all.

So I'd tell you to get after your physical health first...and if you're still down on yourself after getting the physical issues taken care of, get meds AND at least a brief course of therapy, which work better than either alone.
Part of therapy ought to be help in setting some goals for, say, the next five years.

Being the busybody I am, I'll suggest a degree if you haven't already got one, and if you do, go get a master's.

Finishing my Master's and hating it.

[dustbunny]

I agree with most of what's been said on here (I've forgotten now what I just read, but anyway). 

First, I can tell you that I beat my depression by simply deciding that I was not going to be sad or angry or depressed anymore.  You always feel those things coming on, so what I did was figure out a few things that always make me happy (like puppies, kittens, etc) and when I felt all that depression mess coming on, I stopped and forced myself to think about those things and forced myself to feel happy.  We know what happy feels like.  You can force yourself to feel happy.  It took a LOT of work and a long time (we'll say 3-ish years), but now I am rarely bothered by those feelings and I know how to stop them.  You have to be a warrior, but it's worth it.  I literally sat down one day and said, "I'm tired of being depressed and by god, I'm not going to anymore."  I firmly believe that most anything can be overcome through a sheer force of will. 

Second, and this has been said, I think confidence comes from an acceptance of failure.  You have the right to try things and to fail at them.  You can't succeed if you don't try at all.  Once I allowed failure to be an acceptable thing within myself, a HUGE burden was lifted from me...not only that, but I think I'm much more successful now because I was able to find myself and what I wanted to do once I allowed myself to fail.

You have to learn to like yourself.  I like myself very much and if someone doesn't like me, then that's their loss.  That attitude might sound arrogant, but you'll drive yourself crazy if you try to be someone that other people like. 

As for finding things that you like or might want to do, that just takes some searching.  Stopping feelings of apathy will take some serious work, but you can do it, again, through will.  You just have to be determined to feel something.  I learned what I wanted to do while I was working at a job that I absolutely loathed.  I processed health care claims...it can pay the bills if you stick with it, but after a year, I realized I'd rather flip burgers for the rest of my life than spend another day at that place.  While I worked, I thought about all the things I could be doing (and I had a LOT of time to think...claims processing is mindless work).  After I considered many, many options, I determined what would make me happiest (writing fiction and teaching at a university).  It takes time, but you can do it.

The key is to not give up, no matter what setbacks you may have.  You won't stop being depressed overnight.  I've always heard that it takes 3 weeks to create a new habit (and something like 30 days to break a habit, so be patient and allow yourself to fail.  Your life is yours to live and do with it as you choose.  You only need to make yourself happy.  If you make yourself happy, others will be happy for you.


As for the physical stuff, the key is working with what you've got (I think this was said earlier too).  There are very few people in the world who have the bodies that they desire, no matter what their gender status (even the most beautiful models have body image issues).  Look at what you've got and be happy that you have it.  I was always told that there is always someone worse off and that's true.  This goes along with the deciding to be happy thing too.  If you are happy with what you have, then you'll be happier in general.  I'd love to be 6'1", but I'm happy with my 5'6.5" frame.  Never beat yourself up over what you don't have.  Celebrate what you do have. 

I somehow feel like I'm speaking an entirely different language here. If I could choose to feel better I would choose to change a lot of things upsetting me. I would choose to feel comfortable as a cisgendered person instead of feeling confused because I am an androgyne all the time. Does this make sense? If I could will and rationalize all my emotions and things were something simple it would have been done. I'm not lazy nor self defeating. Thinking about people being worse off does NOT comfort me. It makes me feel bad for them and frustrated and my lack of ability to improve their lives as well as my own. I had asked people on here because I figured there might be something I hadn't tried or thought of that people who were suffering with the frustrations that come from not being "normal" cause. If I could will myself out of these feelings I would and then I would will myself into being a "normal" girl who doesn't "normal" things "normally". That's not who I am and I hate it. It this that hard to understand?

[dustbunny]

You have received a lot of amazing answers to your question. To build upon these answers, here's something you can do which has helped me in the past.

To building your self-esteem, you could do this exercise. Take a piece of paper and start writing 25 things you like about yourself. They could be physical or behavioral. If you cannot think about 25, write as many as you can. When you can think about more, write them down. If you have more than 25, that would be even better.

Once you have written these down, ask some people who know you about what they think are your best qualities. See if you can add to your list.

After you have completed this exercise, which may take a few days (it is okay), write down on another piece of paper how you would like to be seen 5 years from now. Not only by others but also by yourself. Do not limit these to gender-specific things. Be sure to include other things - for example you academics or career or friendships or relationships or knowledge or accomplishments or awards or travel or hobbies or health or exercise, etc.

The difference between where you are at now (your first list of 25+ things you like about yourself) and where you want to be 5 years from now (your second list about how you would like to be seen 5 years from now) will help you set your goals for the future. As Simone pointed out previously, if you can meet or exceed some or all of your goals, you will begin to feel greater self-esteem.

Of course, your lists will change with time. So you could revisit and revise these lists and reset your goals. You goals should be your goals, not based on someone else's goals. Lasting self-esteem takes time to build.

It is important to never base your self-esteem on another person. In other words, do not let someone else's acceptance or non-acceptance of you become the sole determinant of your self-esteem. Acceptance or non-acceptance by others should only be seen as the reason for re-evaluating what you have done which caused their reactions, and that re-evaluation need not necessarily result in a change in how you do things.

Regarding how to create your ideal physical look ... it takes time. People evolve. If you watch most common celebrities redesign their physical look over time. So do most non-celebrities. The physical is constantly changing, even if only gradually. It is important to be realistic with your goals for your physical look.

Start with a look that feels comfortable. Experiment a bit. And over time, you can incorporate your successful experiments into your look.

In experimentation nothing feels right. I almost feel like I shouldn't have a body, if that makes any sense at all.

[Nero]

Dustbunny,

People are just sharing what works for them.

[dustbunny]

Your mental/emotional abilities and physical health go hand in hand. You bounce one off the other as an excuse for not doing anything about either. Just an observation.

You need to get to a doctor and work out a med plan that you're comfortable with.
You need to see a therapist to help you get through as many emotional, and if needed mental problems your having. And you can't do just one or the other.

You also need to just stand up to the things that you feel are keeping you down.

Wild mustangs lead miserable lives, dealing with nothing but survival hardships their entire lives. I know, I deal with horses and I have done a fair amount of research on rescuing one or more. On the other hand, I have brought back abused and neglected horses to lead lives that are content and filled with anticipation of working with their owners each day.

Everyone wants that feeling of freedom, but you never get it for free. It takes getting your life in order and doing the work and putting in the effort to get there. And more of the same to stay there.

I live with clinical depression, some OCD stuff, and Borderline Personality (please look that up if you do not know exactly what it means). I live with cronic pain in my joints, and my nerves seem to just light up when ever they feel like it.
I take a handful of meds in the morning and again at night. Without most of them I would be dead. Some days I wish I was.

The point is, I suppose, is that I will never let anything negative stop me from doing what is positive in my life. Yes I have to wear a halters worth of meds and it hurts some days, but I can still let the winds of heaven blow past my ears and mane. But only because I refuse to stay in the barn.

Step off the edge, let go. That moment that time stands still and the world is tranquil, for just that moment, lives with you forever. Get started.

I've been through the gauntlet with the state and insurance. They recently informed me I cannot be covered seeing the doctor I was. They sent me a book with a list of doctors I can see. And with as many doctors as I've seen in the past I'd really rather die than waste more time with their flaming hoops of false hope. I'm allergic to the thyroid meds and I had been fighting for over a year to get to see an endocrinologist finally. I would rather die than keep dealing with social workers who skirt me around and doctors who write me a script for meds I'm allergic to despite me repeatedly telling them my allergies and shooing me out of their office. I am really out of steam with all of this. I'd rather spend my time doing things I don't hate.

[Simone Louise]

Dustbunny

I had asked people on here because I figured there might be something I hadn't tried or thought of that people who were suffering with the frustrations that come from not being "normal" cause.

I want to say you've come to the right place. Being androgyne we are a minority within a minority within a minority. And most of us have co-existing conditions of various kinds. I, for example, have ADD (the dreamy kind, usually associated with females) which wasn't diagnosed until I was 60. I am susceptible to migraines, though I seem to have outlived the worst of them. I have processing problems (people can see the gears grinding when they talk to me, and often assume I didn't hear them). We have or have had personal problems stop us in our tracks.

Like you, we are compassionate. Did someone ask why androgynes are mild-mannered? I am not sure we are nor do I know why. We are acquainted with sorrow. We are all of us here seeking a better life.

If we knew the solutions to all life's problems, we would give you an immediate answer. We don't. Please, be patient with us, for this clearly will take some back and forth. Be patient: we are not experts, not professionals, and many of us lack some social skills and graces.

You are the judge here. No one knows who you are and what you have been through better than you. Feel free to shoot down all our suggestions, what do we know? But, maybe among the wreckage, you can find something usable if you keep an open mind.

Since, we must start somewhere, what are your bachelor and master fields, and what is it about the master's program you hate?

And, since you say you'd rather do something you don't hate, name some things or actions, you don't hate.

That is all I can come up with now, but I will keep the percolator bubbling.

S

[dustbunny]

Dustbunny

I want to say you've come to the right place. Being androgyne we are a minority within a minority within a minority. And most of us have co-existing conditions of various kinds. I, for example, have ADD (the dreamy kind, usually associated with females) which wasn't diagnosed until I was 60. I am susceptible to migraines, though I seem to have outlived the worst of them. I have processing problems (people can see the gears grinding when they talk to me, and often assume I didn't hear them). We have or have had personal problems stop us in our tracks.

Like you, we are compassionate. Did someone ask why androgynes are mild-mannered? I am not sure we are nor do I know why. We are acquainted with sorrow. We are all of us here seeking a better life.

If we knew the solutions to all life's problems, we would give you an immediate answer. We don't. Please, be patient with us, for this clearly will take some back and forth. Be patient: we are not experts, not professionals, and many of us lack some social skills and graces.

You are the judge here. No one knows who you are and what you have been through better than you. Feel free to shoot down all our suggestions, what do we know? But, maybe among the wreckage, you can find something usable if you keep an open mind.

Since, we must start somewhere, what are your bachelor and master fields, and what is it about the master's program you hate?

And, since you say you'd rather do something you don't hate, name some things or actions, you don't hate.

That is all I can come up with now, but I will keep the percolator bubbling.

S

My undergrad major was English with a double minor in humanities and music and a concentration in arts and Native American studies. My rushed typing and lack of editing often belies this original field. I also hated English after studying it for so many years. Every habit seems to breed avarice in me. It may have been the way it was taught too. I used to have an interest in linguistics, however, having to read so much literature before they would let me pursue the linguists I lost interest. During the end of the 2nd year of my undergrad I was bedridden because the hypothyroidism kept getting worse despite treatment. After I found out I was allergic to the meds I was able to slow my steady decline and after that year I was able to get back out of bed. In the process I gained 60 lbs and lost 2/3 of my hair. I was fairly certain at that point I wouldn't make it to 22. Tbh a part of me really wishes I hadn't. One of my doctors insisted trying acupuncture (which he had learned through several seminars). I was completely opposed to the idea, but he said it would be free if it didn't work. It successfully rid me of several allergies I had and alleviated a number of the symptoms I had, which of course is what sent me in pursuit of my MS and OMD which I am currently getting. I was, again, greatly interested to start, but the stress of not making ends meet, being at school now 50 hours a week (40 of those in clinic) so I have no time to work to get any sort of income to remedy this problem coupled with the fact that now my debt is so huge I could never drop out and work without all my income being poured into just the minimum payments on my loans, and the pitfalls of life (my grandpa having a stroke, my aunt wrecking my car, 2 tooth abcesses, an eye infection that almost cost me my right eye and resulted in 3.5 months of heavy corticosteroids which caused a cascade of side effects..) have made it impossible to pay attention enough to learn. I just want it to be over now, I'm so tired.

[Jaimey]

I somehow feel like I'm speaking an entirely different language here. If I could choose to feel better I would choose to change a lot of things upsetting me. I would choose to feel comfortable as a cisgendered person instead of feeling confused because I am an androgyne all the time. Does this make sense? If I could will and rationalize all my emotions and things were something simple it would have been done. I'm not lazy nor self defeating. Thinking about people being worse off does NOT comfort me. It makes me feel bad for them and frustrated and my lack of ability to improve their lives as well as my own. I had asked people on here because I figured there might be something I hadn't tried or thought of that people who were suffering with the frustrations that come from not being "normal" cause. If I could will myself out of these feelings I would and then I would will myself into being a "normal" girl who doesn't "normal" things "normally". That's not who I am and I hate it. It this that hard to understand?

No offense, but you've already decided that you can't be happy because you're depressed.  That IS self defeating.  You've accepted depression as the only option.  And I'm a little irritated with the whole "I can't chose to be cisgendered" as though you seem to think I have.  I'm androgyne too, sweetheart.  Who even suggested such a thing?  Call it tough love, but no one can make you happy but yourself.  We've all given you our best advice and our own experiences and you're throwing it back in our faces without even trying.  Even if you think it won't work, just smile, say thanks, and go about your business.  We don't have all the answers. 

I have $100,000 in student loans.  I lost the two people who raised me within two years of each other.  When I first graduated college, I couldn't find a decent job and only made about $600 a month.  When I finally did get a decent job, the vast majority of my paycheck went to student loans that had defaulted.  I've gone back to school to give myself the opportunity to find a better job.  When I went back, I spent so much time working and in school, that I lost my best friend of eight years.  Everyone goes through bad things.

One thing you need to keep in mind: a lot of us gave very similar advice and those things worked for us.  It might do you well to go over this forum again and keep in mind that we've all been where you are.  We've gone through what you're going through.  Every single one of us has gender issues.  We're all androgyne.  We've all gone through depression and we are getting or have gotten through it.  You asked for advice and we gave it.  If you don't like what we have to say, fine, but we took our time to carefully consider what you had to say and answered to the best of our abilities. 

When it comes down to it, we have two choices in life.  We can give up or get on with it, NOT MATTER HOW BAD THINGS GET.  It's a choice and it's entirely up to us.  Sorry if that seems harsh, but sometimes it has to be.

[Simone Louise]

Dustbunny

My undergrad major was English with a double minor in humanities and music and a concentration in arts and Native American studies. My rushed typing and lack of editing often belies this original field. I also hated English after studying it for so many years. Every habit seems to breed avarice in me. It may have been the way it was taught too. I used to have an interest in linguistics, however, having to read so much literature before they would let me pursue the linguists I lost interest. During the end of the 2nd year of my undergrad I was bedridden because the hypothyroidism kept getting worse despite treatment. After I found out I was allergic to the meds I was able to slow my steady decline and after that year I was able to get back out of bed. In the process I gained 60 lbs and lost 2/3 of my hair. I was fairly certain at that point I wouldn't make it to 22. Tbh a part of me really wishes I hadn't. One of my doctors insisted trying acupuncture (which he had learned through several seminars). I was completely opposed to the idea, but he said it would be free if it didn't work. It successfully rid me of several allergies I had and alleviated a number of the symptoms I had, which of course is what sent me in pursuit of my MS and OMD which I am currently getting. I was, again, greatly interested to start, but the stress of not making ends meet, being at school now 50 hours a week (40 of those in clinic) so I have no time to work to get any sort of income to remedy this problem coupled with the fact that now my debt is so huge I could never drop out and work without all my income being poured into just the minimum payments on my loans, and the pitfalls of life (my grandpa having a stroke, my aunt wrecking my car, 2 tooth abcesses, an eye infection that almost cost me my right eye and resulted in 3.5 months of heavy corticosteroids which caused a cascade of side effects..) have made it impossible to pay attention enough to learn. I just want it to be over now, I'm so tired.

I remember writing a letter with a line very like your last line. That was after three years of engineering (science engineering, aeronautical engineering, and civil engineering). Grades for my last semester were 2 Es and 2 Ds, and the school didn't want me back (I was asked to leave three separate occasions). Somehow, I talked my way into the Literary College (my first semester there I was on the good Dean's list--one feature of ADD is that it is really hard to keep focused on a course if it is a requirement, and not a desire). Two years later, I lacked only the second year of Japanese for my BA. I got married, and took it during the summer session, but finished with a D. That should have been the end of my college career, but one day reading the newspaper, I spotted my name in a list of graduates. Timidly and quickly, I went the administration office and, to my amazement, collected my degree.

My only job for six months was re-shelving newspapers at the college library ten hours a week. The country was in a bad recession. I submitted lots of applications unsuccessfully, until I was finally hired as a statistician because I had worked summers as a statistical clerk. Within another six months, my father was dead.

There are times, we can only put one foot in front of the other. Long range planning goes out the window. Each thing has to be broken into little steps, and we must force ourselves to do that step, and then the next. It helps to list some things for which you are thankful each night. Each morning, to say or write out the focus for the day. Spend some time along the river or in the woods. At times, I have posted affirmations around the room; one I remember was "I am a writer." I have found scheduling helped: put x hours of concentrated effort on my studies, and then stop, forget about them until the next day. If I don't get enough sleep and decent food and some exercise on a regular basis, I can sit at my desk, but I just spin my wheel and nothing happens. Do as much as you can each day, and that will have to be enough; don't feel guilty and don't whine. Do be positive.

I can be like a dog wrestling a rag. I would get the damned OMD, and then take another look at what I wanted to do with my life. Please, keep posting, either in forum, or send me a personal message. You can do this. You can live life more fully.

S

[dustbunny]

No offense, but you've already decided that you can't be happy because you're depressed.  That IS self defeating.  You've accepted depression as the only option.  And I'm a little irritated with the whole "I can't chose to be cisgendered" as though you seem to think I have.  I'm androgyne too, sweetheart.  Who even suggested such a thing?  Call it tough love, but no one can make you happy but yourself.  We've all given you our best advice and our own experiences and you're throwing it back in our faces without even trying.  Even if you think it won't work, just smile, say thanks, and go about your business.  We don't have all the answers. 

I have $100,000 in student loans.  I lost the two people who raised me within two years of each other.  When I first graduated college, I couldn't find a decent job and only made about $600 a month.  When I finally did get a decent job, the vast majority of my paycheck went to student loans that had defaulted.  I've gone back to school to give myself the opportunity to find a better job.  When I went back, I spent so much time working and in school, that I lost my best friend of eight years.  Everyone goes through bad things.

One thing you need to keep in mind: a lot of us gave very similar advice and those things worked for us.  It might do you well to go over this forum again and keep in mind that we've all been where you are.  We've gone through what you're going through.  Every single one of us has gender issues.  We're all androgyne.  We've all gone through depression and we are getting or have gotten through it.  You asked for advice and we gave it.  If you don't like what we have to say, fine, but we took our time to carefully consider what you had to say and answered to the best of our abilities. 

When it comes down to it, we have two choices in life.  We can give up or get on with it, NOT MATTER HOW BAD THINGS GET.  It's a choice and it's entirely up to us.  Sorry if that seems harsh, but sometimes it has to be.

I disagree that happiness is entirely a choice as I would choose at this very moment to be happy if I could. I also wasn't saying anyone could choose to be cisgendered, I was stating it's impossible to choose these types of feelings and if I could just decide one day to feel a certain way I'd make myself feel like a woman. I think the difference in my perspective as opposed to yours is that I fail to see a reason to continue why someone would press on no matter how miserable they are. Is it the faith that things will change, loyalty to the ones we love or duty to an invisible being? If my only option here is to pretend my feelings away I may as well just start pretending to be a woman, and I've already tried that unsuccessfully. I didn't expect a forum would essentially have all the answers, I just expected more empathy. Things like choose to be happy offend me. You may as well just say "you're only depressed/angrogyne/in a bad situation because you want to be". I understand your surmounted your problems with success, but me not having the same success as you is not because I want happiness any less. If I had accepted depression as my only option I wouldn't bother writing on a forum, I'd be plotting a way to make my death look like an accident so people who cared about me wouldn't be hurt thinking I killed myself. Maybe I'm grasping at straws here, but there has to be a way I can feel comfortable with life, because living it gets more unbearable by the hour.

[dustbunny]

Dustbunny

I remember writing a letter with a line very like your last line. That was after three years of engineering (science engineering, aeronautical engineering, and civil engineering). Grades for my last semester were 2 Es and 2 Ds, and the school didn't want me back (I was asked to leave three separate occasions). Somehow, I talked my way into the Literary College (my first semester there I was on the good Dean's list--one feature of ADD is that it is really hard to keep focused on a course if it is a requirement, and not a desire). Two years later, I lacked only the second year of Japanese for my BA. I got married, and took it during the summer session, but finished with a D. That should have been the end of my college career, but one day reading the newspaper, I spotted my name in a list of graduates. Timidly and quickly, I went the administration office and, to my amazement, collected my degree.

My only job for six months was re-shelving newspapers at the college library ten hours a week. The country was in a bad recession. I submitted lots of applications unsuccessfully, until I was finally hired as a statistician because I had worked summers as a statistical clerk. Within another six months, my father was dead.

There are times, we can only put one foot in front of the other. Long range planning goes out the window. Each thing has to be broken into little steps, and we must force ourselves to do that step, and then the next. It helps to list some things for which you are thankful each night. Each morning, to say or write out the focus for the day. Spend some time along the river or in the woods. At times, I have posted affirmations around the room; one I remember was "I am a writer." I have found scheduling helped: put x hours of concentrated effort on my studies, and then stop, forget about them until the next day. If I don't get enough sleep and decent food and some exercise on a regular basis, I can sit at my desk, but I just spin my wheel and nothing happens. Do as much as you can each day, and that will have to be enough; don't feel guilty and don't whine. Do be positive.

I can be like a dog wrestling a rag. I would get the damned OMD, and then take another look at what I wanted to do with my life. Please, keep posting, either in forum, or send me a personal message. You can do this. You can live life more fully.

S

I am getting the OMD. I'm at school 50 hrs a week between clinic and classes. I didn't quit and my feelings didn't change, I'm just busier now, but I feel as pointless and worthless as ever.

[Jaimey]

Dustbunny, you clearly don't understand what I said if that's what you got from it. 

We ARE empathizing with you precisely because we have been in your shoes.  We've ALL suffered from depression.  I don't know what else to tell you.  We've tried our best to give you advice and that's all we can do.

I'd be plotting a way to make my death look like an accident so people who cared about me wouldn't be hurt thinking I killed myself.

I've done that.  I thought about it every day for about five years until one day, I just said, to hell with it, I'm going to do what I want.  Screw everything else and screw everyone else.  I don't care what they think.  It's your life and no one else's.  You have to decide that you want to live and what will make you happy.  Just try out stuff until something strikes your fancy.  I don't have any suggestions for you other than you certainly deserve to live.  Saying "f*** it" to other peoples' and society's expectations is probably what helped me most.  I don't know if it will help you or not.

It's still up to you whether or not you want to do anything about your depression.  I can tell you that there is no quick fix and you will not feel better tomorrow.  It takes time and work and you have to want it.  I got through depression by actively monitoring my thoughts and changing them, every moment of every day.  That's what I did and that's why I suggested it.  It can work.  Some people may have had more success with medication, but I never took any, so I don't know.  If nothing else, go to bed tonight and get up tomorrow.  Then go to bed tomorrow night and get up the next day.  And do it again and again.  Make it a goal if you have to.

As for the gender thing, I would suggest not fighting it.  The more you try to become something you aren't, the more miserable you'll be. 

If what we've given you isn't enough, then see a counselor.  There are many who work on an income based sliding scale.  That's all I've got.