Trans Scenes from The Simpsons: What Do You Think?

[tekla]

No person from a county that produced Monty Python, Beyond the Fringe and Benny Hill should ever be talkin' 'bout offending people.

Where do you think I learned this stuff from?

[Cindy]

Tekla and Vexing

I agree so much on the freedom of speech. I also totally agree that comedy is essentially cruel. " Thank goddess it didn't happen to me, but it was so funny to see it happen to someone else." Yea, we take it through most of life and both of you are far too intelligent for me to spell it out from sport to disaster. The essence of the court jester was to allow cruelty in a non-violent manner. I may and I am usually wrong. I'm happy to debate.

I  also think that you enjoy proding each other. I know why (I think) but it is not useful to the rest of the posters. Just had a thought, How about a page/area whatever  for argumentative discussion? It would still be moderated and banned to none members but there may be a way to allow more robust stuff. Yes no insults but more of a public debate area? Thoughts please.

Cindy

[lightvi]

For some reason I'm just not offended that much. They seem to have made them still male looking (with side burns and stuff) when they could have made them pretty which leads me to think they're using stereotypes for humor, which can be harmful sometimes, but I think as long as people separate the stereotypes with real life then there's no problem with this. Unfortunately since it seems like most of the USA is driven by the media I think the stereotypes from television and movies have worked their way into reality when they shouldn't have.
Just imo.

[CaitJ]

I  also think that you enjoy proding each other.

Actually, I find it onerous and unrewarding.

How about a page/area whatever  for argumentative discussion?

Not my cup of tea 

[rejennyrated]

Actually, I find it onerous and unrewarding.

Which begs the question why bother then? particularly with some of the old-lags in this place whom you must know by now are simply never going to agree, even if just simply on principle. Isn't it easier to simply state your point clearly and then if they want to disagree simply walk away and agree to differ.

After all this isn't a battle or a debate. You don't have to actually win or concede a point for your view to be noted and understood. Once you have stated your view we all accept and understand that it is your validly held view even if some people choose to hold differing ones.

I suppose my point, and indeed Cindy's point is that this forum serves a huge diverse population. Some of us enjoy reading and participating in a robust debate others can find it unsettling. Now you may say that they need to toughen up, and that may indeed be the case, but this may not be the right time or place for that to happen.

So the needs of both groups have to be equally served and sometimes when two people lock horns in a thread it is not helpful to the rest of the group. As Moderators we spend an inordinate amount of time calming down spats between xxxx and yyyy which have got out of control.

Now without in ANY sense criticising, I must observe that, for someone who, in your own words finds it onerous and unrewarding, you do surprisingly often seem to end up being one of the combatants.

Like I say - no criticism intended here. This is just an observation which I hope you may like to ponder.

[TheAetherealMeadow]

For some reason I'm just not offended that much. They seem to have made them still male looking (with side burns and stuff) when they could have made them pretty which leads me to think they're using stereotypes for humor, which can be harmful sometimes, but I think as long as people separate the stereotypes with real life then there's no problem with this. Unfortunately since it seems like most of the USA is driven by the media I think the stereotypes from television and movies have worked their way into reality when they shouldn't have.
Just imo.

The problem is that most people do not seperate stereotypes on TV from reality. And therein lies the problem. It's media portrayals like this that drive a lot of the hatred behind trans people and other minorities.

[Imadique]

I can laugh at trans jokes if they're clever, I just get upset when it's the same sort of cheap shot you'd expect from Letterman all the time. I don't respect comedians and writers who rely on easy targets to elicit a response by dredging up the same old ridicule because they know it will work. I've done a few stand up gigs and been doing musical comedy for years (I'm one of the top 50 acoustic folk-jazz rock satirists in Dulwich Hill) and sure there is always a target (and as Tekla said, a lot of performers including myself will use self deprecation as part of their schtick) but I try my hardest not to rely on propagating inaccurate stereotypes for the easy laugh.

Having said that I didn't find the Simpsons offensive - it's in keeping with their style and I don't think it's really meant to be a clear shot at anyone. The Dave Chappelle sketch was great too.

[lightvi]

The problem is that most people do not seperate stereotypes on TV from reality. And therein lies the problem. It's media portrayals like this that drive a lot of the hatred behind trans people and other minorities.

I agree. I don't think it's the medias fault though, I think it's every persons responsibility is to separate the fact from fiction and decide for themselves what should cross over from being a dream to reality. Calling the media the problem doesn't work because it's the people who watch the media and don't think about it that are the core issue.

I haven't studied psychology very much though and I could be wrong on a lot of fronts. This is just imo

[Miniar]

Although the Family Guy portrayal is a lot less stereotypical, it's the way that the other characters reacted to Ida that makes it more offensive. But then again I haven't seen the entire Simpsons episode so I can't really make a full comparison.

The reactions are similar to the ones we face in reality.
Ida's son was supportive of her in the end.
Ida was a well spoken, intelligent, good looking woman, not an over the top caricature.

How is this offensive?
It's just,... true.

[Shana A]

I unplugged my TV in 1993, coincidentally the same year as my transition. My life and psyche is much better off without the constant blaring of advertisements and lowest common denominator programming.

The 20 second clip wasn't enough for me to say for sure, but what I saw didn't seem particularly offensive. It just seemed like what one typically expects from The Simpsons.

Zythyra

[transheretic]

Well no one is going to be happy with what I have to say..
It was spot on.  I have seen this exact behaviour by trans people many many many times.  I have also witnessed quite a few posties who acted just like Mrs. Garrison in that episode of South Park.  Hell I even once saw a newly post op woman scream at a drive thru box because a teenager on the other end said "sir"......this postie' voice was like Barry White but she was screaming that she paid 16 grand for a vagina and would not put up with being called sir.

All the defensive answers make me wonder just how many making them ever get outside the house.

[tekla]

The problem is that most people do not seperate stereotypes on TV from reality

All the defensive answers make me wonder just how many making them ever get outside the house.

One leads to the other, and then circles back to the beginning, and causes the second...
Comin', comin', comin' around, comin' around, comin' around in a circle

[rejennyrated]

Well no one is going to be happy with what I have to say..
It was spot on.  I have seen this exact behaviour by trans people many many many times.  I have also witnessed quite a few posties who acted just like Mrs. Garrison in that episode of South Park.  Hell I even once saw a newly post op woman scream at a drive thru box because a teenager on the other end said "sir"......this postie' voice was like Barry White but she was screaming that she paid 16 grand for a vagina and would not put up with being called sir.

All the defensive answers make me wonder just how many making them ever get outside the house.

Incorrect I'm afraid. I, for one, have no issue with anything you say, other than the assertion that "no one" will be happy with it.

As I haven't watched any of these shows I can't really hold an opinion on them... other than that I prefer other types of entertainment. Besides I'm on record as being completely un-phased by anything so mind bogglingly trivial as pronouns. As I always say when introducing myself, I'll answer to anything that isn't rude.

The reason that most people find it addictive is because they are idiots.

I was just trying to be polite! 

[CaitJ]

Which begs the question why bother then?

I don't bother. I stated my point; it was not understood. I clarified it, then left it alone when it was further misunderstood.
The accusation of 'baiting ' is ill-fitting when I haven't actually done any of it. My point was a valid observation about my personal views on these shows and had nothing to do with the other person posting. They engaged me.
And that's the last I'll speak of this, since the derail has gone far enough.

[Miniar]

Yeah, it's perfectly true, but the show could have been a little less supportive of those types of attitudes. They're common, but not excusable. Playing them for laughs is one thing if we're laughing at the stupid transphobes, but portraying it as reasonable irks me.

That's not to say I approve of censorship, I just mean it'd be nice if shows would choose to be a little more progressive.

I don't think they portrayed them as "reasonable", but more as "ignorant" or poorly thought out.

[muiredachau]

Well it's a good thing then that the entertainment industry in the USA is so backward, or else people all over the world would be watching it.

If you think US TV is backwards, what a bout those that show 80% US television (ie Australian FTA & PayTV)

[glendagladwitch]

Yeah, and I'm sure that the writers of South Park feel real bad about insulting transpeople, pot smokers, hippies, civil war reenactors, Michale Jackson, coffee shops, Hilary Clinton, Oprah, Mel Gibson, people in SF, veterans, parents, other kids, Kentucky Fried Chicken, police, teachers, gays, people with Tourette syndrome, people in wheel chairs, Christian rock bands - do I need to go on?

Well, compare the way they treated the trans issue with the way they treated the gay issue.  Big Gay Boat Ride

Seems to me that they treated gays with a whole lot more respect.

[AmySmiles]

I don't think there was supposed to be much behind it.  I was kind of curious so I watched the whole show online (my television has been canceled for a while now).  Those combined 20-something seconds of clips were the only references to transsexual people in the entire episode, with the rest being almost entirely about gay men.  Sure, it was a bit tasteless to show only manly-looking transwomen... but why get so upset about 20 seconds of a 20 minute show?  If the entire episode was about trans folks there might be cause for concern, but honestly there are more important things to worry about.  I doubt it was even a blip on the collective radar.

[some ftm guy]

I don't think there was supposed to be much behind it.  I was kind of curious so I watched the whole show online (my television has been canceled for a while now).  Those combined 20-something seconds of clips were the only references to transsexual people in the entire episode, with the rest being almost entirely about gay men.  Sure, it was a bit tasteless to show only manly-looking transwomen... but why get so upset about 20 seconds of a 20 minute show?  If the entire episode was about trans folks there might be cause for concern, but honestly there are more important things to worry about.  I doubt it was even a blip on the collective radar.

i agree i wouldn't think it's as big a deal to really complain about it. i liked the south park episode about gays too. for once they weren't just insulting for the sake of pissing people off they were being respectful, grown up and standing up for gay people. though i liked when they made fun of Osama Bin Laden and Tom Cruise heh heh.

[tekla]

As opposed the the way they treated hippies in Die Hippie, Die?