A radical feminist explains her transphobia

[Natasha]

A radical feminist explains her transphobia

http://transhumanoid.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/a-radical-feminist-explains-her-transphobia/
3/15/11
By plasticgirl

I have been trying to get to the heart of the issues behind all the anti-trans rhetoric that I've been finding all over the internet as of late. And I am late to the chat. Some of these blog discussions have been up for a couple years. But better late than never.

While I was reading through the comments on a powerful post called "What makes a woman" at a self-described radical feminist blog that I found this comment:

   "I was really beginning to wonder if radical feminism was just going to roll over and let these stealth men take over, and believe me, they will take over because they ARE patriarchy; its all they know. They aren't women, they are fembots, the not feminists, they are fake feminists, and they want to take away the word "woman" and change it to "gender" and they want to deny that they lived as men, and act like men."

[spacial]

As with men, it is all about them, all about denying the origins of patriarchy, and who enforces gender conformity.

I don't deny that men have been able to oppress women because of their sex.

I do. The notion is selective, specious and nonsensical. That it has become an accepted urban fact, doesn't make it so.

Feminism is about a small group, establishing themselves as a intellectual elite for the purposes of controling others. They claim to represent a much larger group, ie, women. In reality, those women who fail to conform to their ideals, including those women who belong to inconvienent races and cultures, are dismissed.

In other words, Feminism is nazism.

[Padma]

I think it's a case of the most audible/noticable voices always being the most extreme ones. There's a whole lot of good stuff being done and said in more moderate, more flexible, creative, thoughtful feminism that gets tarred with the same brush as the extreme, rigid, reactive stuff.

Which is pretty much a mirror for how people relate to masculinity too - men as a "group" get judged by the standards of the worst of them.

[Nathan.]

I do. The notion is selective, specious and nonsensical. That it has become an accepted urban fact, doesn't make it so.

Feminism is about a small group, establishing themselves as a intellectual elite for the purposes of controling others. They claim to represent a much larger group, ie, women. In reality, those women who fail to conform to their ideals, including those women who belong to inconvienent races and cultures, are dismissed.

In other words, Feminism is nazism.

Not to mansplain or anything but that's not feminism at all and it's very offensive to say it's like nazism. Feminism is about all womans rights, to be treated equally and to make thier own choices, this includes sex workers and housewives. Feminism is still relevent today throughout the world, it doesn't forget about women of different cultures and races.

That said we shouldn't forget about the harmful cissexist feminists.

[spacial]

Not to mansplain or anything but that's not feminism at all and it's very offensive to say it's like nazism. Feminism is about all womans rights, to be treated equally and to make thier own choices, this includes sex workers and housewives. Feminism is still relevent today throughout the world, it doesn't forget about women of different cultures and races.

That said we shouldn't forget about the harmful cissexist feminists.

I understand your points. But the reality of feminism is that it is an expression of anger, resentment and revenge.

It set out to achieve high and good ideals, but failed understand that many women simply don't want what it was offering. So, it has been taken over by nazi types who seek to establish themselves at the head of a matriarchy. A matriarchy that is white, middle class, seemingly educated and western.

It utterly fails to address the enormous problems of the majority of women in the world, bowing to its cultural ignorance, especially in the case of Islam, where it cannot understand the strength of Islamic women, so walks away entirely.

The allegance of many women, especially younger women, to feminism, demonstrates they know little about it or the threat it presents to them.

Modern feminism doesn't seek to improve the lot of sex workers, it seeks to ban them altogether.

Modern feminism views the very concept of the housewife as a symbol of repression.

Modern feminism accuses men, generally, of sexual misconduct, as routine.

Modern feminsm fails because it views repression as only applying to women. Much like all nazi groups, who concentrate and highlight the problems of their own narrow interests, seeking to rectify these at the expense of others. (Which is, in essence, what nazism is). In Africa, especially, women are being raped by armies of victorious soldiers. This isn't repression of women. This is repression of the defeated. The men who fight against these scum, fight, not just for their own lives, but because they know the consequences of defeat mean their wives and daughters will be raped. That is what is meant by rape as a tool of war. The repressors aren't men, they are those that view war as accepetable.

The contemporary feminists are a much greater threat to transgender people, individualism and society that most seem to realise. The modern feminists are in positions of power and influence. Those that dare to challange them are dismissed, either as repressed women, in need of liberation or patriarchal men.

I dare to challange.

[rar]

Spacial, mainstream feminism does have significant chronic issues with race, class, non-first-world problems, etc., but it's hardly Naziism. Its issues are more out of negligence than malice. The only feminism I've seen that even comes close to what you're describing is radical feminism, and they're definitely not in the majority.

[kate durcal]

I read in our own forum and in other blogs, that some ultra feminists Transphobia. They basically claim that it does not mater how much you change your body, you are still a male! This is a poison borne out of total ignorance on the conditions that lead to GID.

The evidence accumulated over the last 10 years by neurobiologist on the function, anatomy, embryonic development, and physiology, in both, humans and animals studies clearly points to a small center, the "Bed Stria Terminalis (BST)," as the brain's "gender identity center."

Whether your BST develops as a female or male is determined by genetic and epigenetic factors before the 8th week of gestation. Mutation to the estrogen or androgen receptor genes, and/or  the Aromatase gene in XY individuals results in an individuals with a female BST and the external genitalia of a male. This tragic biological error, termed in medicine GID, is a medical condition not a "mental disorder" or a "life style choice."

So what defines as a male or as females is a small center on your brain (BST). If I take the most radical feminist and do "Sex Rearrangement Surgery (SRS)" on her and turn her into an anatomically correct male, what is this individual? This individual is still a female and a feminist;.  But what if I was to change her BST (via genetic engineering) to a male BST the individual? She would wake up feeling like a male and demanding SRS like any other XX individual who has been borne with a male BST.

What would have happen to her "rabid" feminist beliefs? Probably they would be "tapered" by his new psychic, as gender roles, and concepts of womanhood, masculinity, femininity, are but sociological and cultural constructs that evolve and change, and deeply influenced by your own  psychic

Kate

[spacial]

Spacial, mainstream feminism does have significant chronic issues with race, class, non-first-world problems, etc., but it's hardly Naziism. Its issues are more out of negligence than malice. The only feminism I've seen that even comes close to what you're describing is radical feminism, and they're definitely not in the majority.

With respect, I cannot accept that feminism is led by the ignorant when such prominant nazis as this are featured: http://www.ssps.unimelb.edu.au/about/staff/profiles/jeffreys

I do accept and made the point, that it is followed by the ignorant. But I also believe that most woman who tacitly follow feminism do so out of a casual interest rather than any real belief in its policies.

[rar]

With respect, I cannot accept that feminism is led by the ignorant when such prominant nazis as this are featured: http://www.ssps.unimelb.edu.au/about/staff/profiles/jeffreys

I do accept and made the point, that it is followed by the ignorant. But I also believe that most woman who tacitly follow feminism do so out of a casual interest rather than any real belief in its policies.

Sheila Jeffreys is a radical feminist (cf. my previous post). Just because she's prominent doesn't mean most feminists agree with or blindly follow her.

There's not much I can say about your opinion of feminists in the trenches except that I've met a fair number of them, and they're nothing like what you describe.

[spacial]

I understand rar. And I wish them well, even if I disagree, strongly with their agenda.

But it seems the radicals, as you call them, call all the shots.

Hopefully the moderates can get off their collective buts and say something. (If it isn't offensive for a mere (g)male to say so).

[Liam-XXI]

I understand your points. But the reality of feminism is that it is an expression of anger, resentment and revenge.

It set out to achieve high and good ideals, but failed understand that many women simply don't want what it was offering. So, it has been taken over by nazi types who seek to establish themselves at the head of a matriarchy. A matriarchy that is white, middle class, seemingly educated and western.

It utterly fails to address the enormous problems of the majority of women in the world, bowing to its cultural ignorance, especially in the case of Islam, where it cannot understand the strength of Islamic women, so walks away entirely.

The allegance of many women, especially younger women, to feminism, demonstrates they know little about it or the threat it presents to them.

Modern feminism doesn't seek to improve the lot of sex workers, it seeks to ban them altogether.

Modern feminism views the very concept of the housewife as a symbol of repression.

Modern feminism accuses men, generally, of sexual misconduct, as routine.

Modern feminsm fails because it views repression as only applying to women. Much like all nazi groups, who concentrate and highlight the problems of their own narrow interests, seeking to rectify these at the expense of others. (Which is, in essence, what nazism is). In Africa, especially, women are being raped by armies of victorious soldiers. This isn't repression of women. This is repression of the defeated. The men who fight against these scum, fight, not just for their own lives, but because they know the consequences of defeat mean their wives and daughters will be raped. That is what is meant by rape as a tool of war. The repressors aren't men, they are those that view war as accepetable.

The contemporary feminists are a much greater threat to transgender people, individualism and society that most seem to realise. The modern feminists are in positions of power and influence. Those that dare to challange them are dismissed, either as repressed women, in need of liberation or patriarchal men.

I dare to challange.

Okay. Let me see here. I will not attempt to defend the feminism of the past. But lets see what I can challenge in your post (on behalf of modern feminists), to maybe illustrate another side of this. You're very well spoken, and for that, I'm really glad to read your opinions!

feminism (and I will never capitalize 'feminism' because there is no ONE true Feminism), is an expression of resistance - feminism today challenges the notions that equality has been achieved. Equality has NOT been achieved, so feminism seeks to open eyes and minds of privileged groups (straight, white, able-bodied, middle-upper class cissexual men, predominantly.) But also, the feminism of today is seeking to open the minds of privileged cis-women also. Ciswomen who have thought for decades that they have achieved the equality that they set out for. feminism of today says "no." to that.

A matriarchy today cannot succeed, because there are too many voices that the feminism of the past has silenced in seeking one group's liberation oppression that outsiders of the privileged group face in many different ways. Yes, the feminism of today sounds like a mewling kitten sometimes. sometimes it's a roaring lion. but the feminism of today seeks *other* voices. voices from people who HAVE been 'othered' by the feminism of the past.

Now I have to concede that Western Ideals has made the feminism of the past absolutely ridiculous. This is slowly changing, by a lot of committed activists and young women and men too, who want to see grassroots equality built up inside of other countries, based solely within the cultures present. The feminism of today cannot accept the horrors that were done by colonialism, and respects that equality cannot begin on stolen ground. The women who 'blindly' commit to feminism today, are not the same women who seek to adopt children "from Africa [the country ]" to "give them a better life here."  The feminism of today seeks to foster awareness among cisgendered women, girls, men and is seeking to support the Trans communities in the only way it knows how - by seeking Trans stories and seeking out Trans voices, and it's beginning to recognize it's own privilege, of being cissexual, and never 'having' to share our experiences.

The feminism of today seeks to improve the lot of sex workers. The feminism of today includes sex workers, and supports fully their right to autonomy over their own bodies, and for the freedom of sex workers to report crimes without harassment, or threat of personal injury. It's not their yet; it won't be for a long time, but it has been making slow gains.

the feminism of today views this 'retro-stylized rockabilly/ 1950's femininity' as a backlash (Each 'wave' has had a backlash in some form... But as Judith Butler said "->-bleeped-<- the waves, we are the ocean!") The feminism of today supports the abilities of women, as a house-wife, as a business woman, as the head of their own household. The feminism of today is discouraging younger women to buy into the glamorous television shows, celebrity gossip, and the sexualization of cissexual women's bodies, and the eroticization of women of colour's bodies, lives and experiences.

The feminism of today seeks to show cissexual men their aiding of the systems of oppression, and to give voices back to women, about what "counts" as sexual misconduct, not just in empirical evidence, but trusting women's experiences. The feminism of today seeks to show cissexual men and women THEIR aiding of the systems of oppression that affect all of us within the trans communities.

The feminism of today, seeks to help women recognize and give VOICE to their oppression, and in doing so, providing a space where all people can share the lived experiences, and are no longer silenced.

The feminism of today seeks to say "We're not equal yet. Look at all of us, who are not white, cissexual, middle or upper class, not in education, not working, not able-bodied, not conforming to society's expectations. Where were you [feminism of yester-year] when we needed you? We've made our own rules now."

The people in power have a whole lot of privilege. The people in power are NOT all women, nor are they representational of actual communities, cultures, religious backgrounds, or gender varient. The feminism of today wants to change that. The feminism of today wants to give voices a chance to be heard, not making one cry, but the voices of thousands. The feminism of today wants us; trans sisters and brothers, trans mothers and trans fathers. It needs us. We're the silenced, the overlooked - Us and many other groups have been silenced by the feminism of the past, and the feminism of today wants to hear our stories, our pain, our struggles. Not to assimilate, but to give separate voices to all of us.

The feminism of today knows that - I'm part of it, we can change it.

[Shana A]

In other words, Feminism is nazism.

There are plenty of feminist women (and men) who are working toward full equality and a better world. Let's not paint all feminists with blanket statements because of the opinions or actions of some.



Reminder from admin, calling anyone a nazi is in violation of Rule 10.

10. Bashing or flaming of any individuals or groups is not acceptable behavior on this web site and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.

Z

[VeryGnawty]

And, they want to take on the trappings of fembotism... because as with drag queens, it's all about the outfits. As with men, it is all about them, all about denying the origins of patriarchy, and who enforces gender conformtity. Radical feminism poses a huge threat to the male worlds, and that's why they are invading it one MTF at a time.

Fembotism....men who are undercover in female trappings to enforce oppression of women?

I want whatever this lady has been smoking.  Clearly, her fiction is much more interesting than my reality.  Her rant sounds like the plot to a really bad low-budget film.

[V M]

LOL... Not all feminists are quite so radical    That one must have goofed on her med.s or missed a shrink appointment or something 

Anyway, I like that website and think Plastic Girl is pretty cool 

[spacial]

There are plenty of feminist women (and men) who are working toward full equality and a better world. Let's not paint all feminists with blanket statements because of the opinions or actions of some.



Reminder from admin, calling anyone a nazi is in violation of Rule 10.

Z

I would like to openly and willingly apologise to any of our members here who felt that comment was directed, in any way, at them. I appreciate that I was, and frequently am, quite blunt. But I would never, deliberately make such an accusation to members here, most of whom I love so much.

Thank you Zanthyra for pointing this out and thank you everyone else for your patience.



Liam-XX1.

I am really interested and pleased with the feminism you describe.

I find it extremely difficult to get my mind past the psoters which feminists plasterd all over the place, in the 70s, proclaiming, All Men are Rapists.

If modern feminism has indeed decided to support sex workers, that can only be positive. The alienation of this group, not only leave those who choose it, unprotected, it means that those who are forced into it, are effectively under the authority of criminals.

On the issue of equal pay. This is a serious issue. To deprive someone of their fair reward for work done, is, I suggest, insulting to all humans. My issue with feminists, (traditional), is their claim that this is part of a male patriarchy.

When a man applies for a job, he will, undoubtedly, be looking for various things. Equally, it is probable that, he will look out for various things which may make him think twice about taking the job.

But it is insulting to the intelegnce to imply that any man would look for a job where he will get paid more than a woman, doing the same work.

[Liam-XXI]

Liam-XX1.

I am really interested and pleased with the feminism you describe.

I find it extremely difficult to get my mind past the psoters which feminists plasterd all over the place, in the 70s, proclaiming, All Men are Rapists.

If modern feminism has indeed decided to support sex workers, that can only be positive. The alienation of this group, not only leave those who choose it, unprotected, it means that those who are forced into it, are effectively under the authority of criminals.

On the issue of equal pay. This is a serious issue. To deprive someone of their fair reward for work done, is, I suggest, insulting to all humans. My issue with feminists, (traditional), is their claim that this is part of a male patriarchy.

When a man applies for a job, he will, undoubtedly, be looking for various things. Equally, it is probable that, he will look out for various things which may make him think twice about taking the job.

But it is insulting to the intelegnce to imply that any man would look for a job where he will get paid more than a woman, doing the same work.

I'm glad you are pleased with this feminism. It's made only by today's youth, but built on the foundations of the feminists before us. The problem is not with the man looking for the job, the problem is that because of long held beliefs, companies are more willing to pay a man (more promotions, recognition of work, etc.) than they are women. With the unfounded belief that women are 'flaky' or emotional, or any number of attributes which do not (in the company's mind) make for trustworthy employees. Women get a 3% greater paycut every time they take maternity leave.

These things aren't blaming the men. They are showing that companies must recognize the equality of the work by all employees.

And the posters. These are hurtful to all people, and used as scare tactics in many cases.

A study has suggested that convicted males who are spousal abusers are exactly the same emotionally as male non-abusers.
"More than one in 5 men report "becoming so sexually aroused that they could not stop themselves from having sex," even though the woman did not consent."
This to show that the lack of consideration for women as autonomous over their own bodies as a fault of societal beliefs. i.e. The woman asked for it. (which in this illustration, has clearly not.)

Patriarchy is not so much the "male organization of hatred against women" but the systems in place which cisgender men benefit from, and cisgender women (or any who are not 'protected' by being able-bodied, heterosexual, in position of power) receive no benefits therein.

These things can all be changed. We can make these changes, we can recognize behaviours, call them out. How different would it be for you to call out someone saying transphobic slurs, than for a cissexual woman to call out the cissexual men at the bar for calling her a 'wh**e'?

These things do not need to happen. But they happen to everyone, and mostly, anyone who isn't middle/upper class, able-bodied, cissexual man or woman (to a lesser degree), or society's ideal. <--- Those people who fit that description to a T, might NOT ever face those problems (if you add any other difference, i.e. being of colour, homosexual, trans, etc. and oppressions will occur, the systems in place work only to help a particular few.) They MIGHT still face those problems, but they are not being oppressed, because they are still benefitting from the systems where others are not.

- Liam

[Padma]

I didn't think I was going to weigh in here again, but speaking as a non-heterosexual man who was raped by his mother, I find support of the blanket statement "All men are rapists" deeply, deeply insulting.

I am restrained here in my response by Rule 10 (see above) - but think that Rule 10 applies to support of this statement too.

[Liam-XXI]

I didn't think I was going to weigh in here again, but speaking as a non-heterosexual man who was raped by his mother, I find support of the blanket statement "All men are rapists" deeply, deeply insulting.

I am restrained here in my response by Rule 10 (see above) - but think that Rule 10 applies to support of this statement too.

Hi Yoxi

I apologize for causing any distress. I was using it to illustrate a wider point, but I realize now my insensitivity. I will rework that statement to better illustrate my point, and I'm sorry again.

- Liam

[Padma]

Apology accepted. I hope you can see why I rankle when the feminist narrative appears to assume women are inherently blameless and men are inherently suspect - and I'm generally suspicious of blanket statements, whatever their blanket covers.

[Liam-XXI]

Apology accepted. I hope you can see why I rankle when the feminist narrative appears to assume women are inherently blameless and men are inherently suspect - and I'm generally suspicious of blanket statements, whatever their blanket covers.

Thank you. I would never claim to know your experience. I appreciate and respect your sharing it. You're a brave man, certainly!