Susan's Place Logo

News:

According to Google Analytics 25,259,719 users made visits accounting for 140,758,117 Pageviews since December 2006

Main Menu

Does it honestly matter whether you pass as your gender or not?

Started by Ribbons, March 25, 2011, 07:15:52 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

-CRaSH-

Quote from: Janet Lynn on April 07, 2011, 06:14:02 PM
Did we forget Crash?  Or are you just saying something about your sexuality
Lol, sorry, got a lil carried away.
  •  

FairyGirl

Quote from: -CRaSH- on April 07, 2011, 06:37:06 PM
Yes that is alot of people. But that's still rare.

Assuming that there are 3 billion women on earth 1% of them being transexuals.

That means that there 30 million.

Relatively there aren't that many.

That's more than the entire population of Australia lol (22 million, 2008 census est.)

(Throw in New Zealand as well- 4 million)
Girls rule, boys drool.
If I keep a green bough in my heart, then the singing bird will come.
  •  

-CRaSH-

Quote from: FairyGirl on April 07, 2011, 06:42:52 PM
That's more than the entire population of Australia lol (22 million, 2008 census est.)

(Throw in New Zealand as well- 4 million)

True, but they're spread across the entire globe.

Relatively, there aren't that many of you.
  •  

FairyGirl

Girls rule, boys drool.
If I keep a green bough in my heart, then the singing bird will come.
  •  


-CRaSH-

Quote from: Valeriedances on April 07, 2011, 07:09:25 PM
People who have interests you've described are sometimes called ->-bleeped-<-s by our community. In many cases those people have gender issues themselves, though I dont know if you do or not. Your being on this site and saying you like preop women orally means either your chasing your interest or possibly questioning your own gender.

When I think of a Cis Male, I think first heterosexual male, though I know bisexual and gay men are cisgendered as well. It's just my view of cis males, they are heterosexual.

I dont know you so I cant say. I only know what Ive read from your posts and what I know of ->-bleeped-<-s and typical cis males.
Lol, ->-bleeped-<-s that's pretty funny. Anyway, I was born male, i feel manly therefore I am. I consider myself hetero, but my sexuality is subjective. I have no gender issues.
  •  

FairyGirl

Quote from: -CRaSH- on April 07, 2011, 07:03:46 PM
You're a CIS girl?

I am a woman who has a transsexual history, but am now no longer transsexual. To use a great quote from Suzan Cooke of womenborntranssexual.com:

QuoteI had a sex change to cure my transsexuality and it worked. I've never wanted to change my sex since.

:icon_chick:
Girls rule, boys drool.
If I keep a green bough in my heart, then the singing bird will come.
  •  

MarinaM

Quote from: FairyGirl on April 07, 2011, 07:34:49 PM
I am a woman who has a transsexual history, but am now no longer transsexual. To use a great quote from Suzan Cooke of womenborntranssexual.com:

:icon_chick:

This is essentially where I would like to be, in time.
  •  

FairyGirl

sweetie, I have no doubt you will get to be where you want to be. :)
Girls rule, boys drool.
If I keep a green bough in my heart, then the singing bird will come.
  •  

Wraith

Quote from: -CRaSH- on April 07, 2011, 11:47:55 AM
And sometimes when a CIS is open to dating a transexual that transexual must look the part. Not trying to be rude, but I will not date a MTF pre-op or post that doesn't look feminine enough.

If you're gonna hang around this forum you better understand these basic things:
There is gender
There is gender presentation
There is masculinity/femininity
and there is sexual orientation

They are all separate and do not have much to do with eachother.

There are actually MTF's who love being masculine, but not as a male (because they aren't male), so they transition so that they can be masculine women. You are NOT to judge or decide if they can or cannot be that way. They are women no matter what they look like and no matter if YOU like them or not.

There's also many CISpeople that do not "look the part" (in your standards). There are many heterosexual women who look quite manly, but still feel like women. Would you date them? I don't think so. But that's about YOU, not them. You don't need to go around telling them that they "have to look the part" just like you don't have to walk around telling transsexuals we have to "look the part". We'll look however we can and want to.
  •  

-CRaSH-

Quote from: Wraith on April 07, 2011, 08:52:24 PM
If you're gonna hang around this forum you better understand these basic things:
There is gender
There is gender presentation
There is masculinity/femininity
and there is sexual orientation

They are all separate and do not have much to do with eachother.

There are actually MTF's who love being masculine, but not as a male (because they aren't male), so they transition so that they can be masculine women. You are NOT to judge or decide if they can or cannot be that way. They are women no matter what they look like and no matter if YOU like them or not.

There's also many CISpeople that do not "look the part" (in your standards). There are many heterosexual women who look quite manly, but still feel like women. Would you date them? I don't think so. But that's about YOU, not them. You don't need to go around telling them that they "have to look the part" just like you don't have to walk around telling transsexuals we have to "look the part". We'll look however we can and want to.
Wow wow wow wow... Relax. All I said is that in order for me to date a MTF that they would have to look very feminine. That's all I said. I'm not speaking for anyone else, and I'm not casting judgement on any of you. All I was doing was telling you one of my likes, and dislikes in a partner didn't mean anything by it.

Chill out.
  •  

Beyond

Quote from: -CRaSH- on April 07, 2011, 09:35:16 PM
Wow wow wow wow... Relax. All I said is that...

I'm shallow.


And lack any understanding about what identity is.
  •  

-CRaSH-

Quote from: Beyond on April 08, 2011, 05:37:16 AM
I'm shallow.


And lack any understanding about what identity is.
Ummm. Why're you editing my posts before quoting them.

In that post i explained why I wouldn't date a T that is masculine in appearance.

I'm just not attracted to that sort of look.

I have no idea why you conclude that Im shallow.

I'm sure that you wouldn't date someone that you aren't attracted to.
  •  

Sandy

CRaSH:

I don't think ever we've had anyone rack up as much negative karma and end up on the watched list as quickly as you without getting moderated or outright banned.

We've had trolls before, but you do not seem to be one of those, however.  You have stated that you are attracted to pre-operative or non-operative male to female trans women and genuinely seem to be wanting to understand them as people.

You've been told that this is not a dating site but are welcome to join in the conversation.

I have read through your posts, and you really seem to be trying participate.

You do come off as abrasive (see previous statement about negative karma) but if I try to put your statements in context I can understand that you are trying to state your own point of view.  Which is one of the things that Susan's is all about.

But, please, you must understand that we are very sensitive, fragile people here.  Many of us are trying to understand ourselves and come to grips with a terribly debilitating condition.

We are first, and foremost, people.  We are not just words on a screen.  We refuse to be objectified.  Too often society in general regards us as shameful, perverted wastes of flesh and souls.  Often times rejected by our loved ones and closest friends at the very moment that we need support and understanding.

For many of us, the people on this list and others like it, are the only family that they have and the only place to find solace and understanding.  We are a broken people looking to heal, to transform, to become what they know themselves to be.

Many of us identify with the butterfly.  Because this wonderful creature spends its life as a caterpillar, inching its way along with its drab colors, knowing nothing else of the world other than the leaf just in front of it.  Then without its own volition, is driven to create a chrysalis, and within that cocoon to change, transform, and become something it perhaps only dimly perceived itself to be.  And then emerge as something so different, and colorful, and FREE!

And if it is prevented from this transition, it will die.  Many of us have come to the edge of the abyss.  To face a life that is utterly changed never to return, or die.  And too many of us have chosen oblivion rather than life.

Like the caterpillar/butterfly we are born to be this way.  It is not a learned thing.  It is not a fun thing.  We would not wish this condition on our worst enemy.  And this is not in any way sexually titillating or gratifying for us.  Indeed one of the very first things to be annihilated by the dangerous medications we take is the sex drive, the libido.  Permanent, chemical castration is one of the first irreversible effects of our journey and we accept that lifelong sterilization.  Our exterior plumbing is only useful, in many cases, only for simple urination, not ejaculation.

We really do wish open and honest exchange of ideas and support, and we are truly open to all.  But, please, if at all possible in your responses and posts, be mindful of the people you are speaking to as we try to be mindful of you.

Realize that words have power, and they can cut very deeply.  We respect your opinion and really do want your input because we rarely get to interact with others not like ourselves without being disrespected.

We are just people and we want to live just as people, not sex objects.  We often face a life of loneliness without a life partner or deep relationship.  And the only thing we may be allowed is tawdry, temporary, coupling based solely on our difference and then discarded.  We are not disposable people.

Thank you CraSH for being here, and interacting with us on a level we rarely see.  But hold us gently for we can break.

-Sandy
Out of the darkness, into the light.
Following my bliss.
I am complete...
  •  

-CRaSH-

Quote from: Sandy on April 08, 2011, 08:33:24 AM
CRaSH:

I don't think ever we've had anyone rack up as much negative karma and end up on the watched list as quickly as you without getting moderated or outright banned.

We've had trolls before, but you do not seem to be one of those, however.  You have stated that you are attracted to pre-operative or non-operative male to female trans women and genuinely seem to be wanting to understand them as people.

You've been told that this is not a dating site but are welcome to join in the conversation.

I have read through your posts, and you really seem to be trying participate.

You do come off as abrasive (see previous statement about negative karma) but if I try to put your statements in context I can understand that you are trying to state your own point of view.  Which is one of the things that Susan's is all about.

But, please, you must understand that we are very sensitive, fragile people here.  Many of us are trying to understand ourselves and come to grips with a terribly debilitating condition.

We are first, and foremost, people.  We are not just words on a screen.  We refuse to be objectified.  Too often society in general regards us as shameful, perverted wastes of flesh and souls.  Often times rejected by our loved ones and closest friends at the very moment that we need support and understanding.

For many of us, the people on this list and others like it, are the only family that they have and the only place to find solace and understanding.  We are a broken people looking to heal, to transform, to become what they know themselves to be.

Many of us identify with the butterfly.  Because this wonderful creature spends its life as a caterpillar, inching its way along with its drab colors, knowing nothing else of the world other than the leaf just in front of it.  Then without its own volition, is driven to create a chrysalis, and within that cocoon to change, transform, and become something it perhaps only dimly perceived itself to be.  And then emerge as something so different, and colorful, and FREE!

And if it is prevented from this transition, it will die.  Many of us have come to the edge of the abyss.  To face a life that is utterly changed never to return, or die.  And too many of us have chosen oblivion rather than life.

Like the caterpillar/butterfly we are born to be this way.  It is not a learned thing.  It is not a fun thing.  We would not wish this condition on our worst enemy.  And this is not in any way sexually titillating or gratifying for us.  Indeed one of the very first things to be annihilated by the dangerous medications we take is the sex drive, the libido.  Permanent, chemical castration is one of the first irreversible effects of our journey and we accept that lifelong sterilization.  Our exterior plumbing is only useful, in many cases, only for simple urination, not ejaculation.

We really do wish open and honest exchange of ideas and support, and we are truly open to all.  But, please, if at all possible in your responses and posts, be mindful of the people you are speaking to as we try to be mindful of you.

Realize that words have power, and they can cut very deeply.  We respect your opinion and really do want your input because we rarely get to interact with others not like ourselves without being disrespected.

We are just people and we want to live just as people, not sex objects.  We often face a life of loneliness without a life partner or deep relationship.  And the only thing we may be allowed is tawdry, temporary, coupling based solely on our difference and then discarded.  We are not disposable people.

Thank you CraSH for being here, and interacting with us on a level we rarely see.  But hold us gently for we can break.

-Sandy
Really O_o?

Well to tell you the truth, i was actually moderated, once, for getting a little too sexually explicit. It was just a warning though. And I've actually recieved angry hate mail from a MtF Transexual on this site. Despite not even, having interacted with her on the forums. She kind of sounded angry that I'm a CIS, she said that I don't belong here. Understandable I guess.

And I agree, you guys n' gals do seem very, very fragile, and emotional. Actually moreso than any other group of people that I've ever interacted with. More emotional than women who are on their monthly flow.

I never mean anything negatively when I post it, but often times my posts are seen as negative, and people see them in the worst possible light. Could be because I'm CIS.

I'm still trying to understand this karma thing, or whatever.

I'm definitely not a troll, and if it is any constillation, if that's you as your sig, I find you attractive.
  •  

Sandy

Quote from: -CRaSH- on April 08, 2011, 10:48:57 AM
Really O_o?

Well to tell you the truth, i was actually moderated, once, for getting a little too sexually explicit. It was just a warning though. And I've actually recieved angry hate mail from a MtF Transexual on this site. Despite not even, having interacted with her on the forums. She kind of sounded angry that I'm a CIS, she said that I don't belong here. Understandable I guess.

And I agree, you guys n' gals do seem very, very fragile, and emotional. Actually moreso than any other group of people that I've ever interacted with. More emotional than women who are on their monthly flow.

I never mean anything negatively when I post it, but often times my posts are seen as negative, and people see them in the worst possible light. Could be because I'm CIS.

I'm still trying to understand this karma thing, or whatever.

I'm definitely not a troll, and if it is any constillation, if that's you as your sig, I find you attractive.

Yes, we can respond in anger if we perceive that we are being trivialized or attacked.  It is a response that some of us learn to try to protect ourselves from being treated harshly yet again.

Some come to hate men, specifically because they often times are the source of the violence that so often befall us.  And others personal opinions aside, you are welcome to stay as long as you play well with others (read the TOS).

We are emotional and sensitive often because of the situation we find ourselves in and additionally our ever changing hormonal landscape can take us on a roller coaster of emotions that we have little control over sometimes.

The Karma reputation system is represented by the thumbs up/down on the left side of the page below your avatar.  A subscriber can either give a thumbs up if they respect/agree with the post you have made or they can give it a thumbs down if they disagree or feel you are being overly negative.  It is only to be used sparingly and will be reviewed by Susan or the mods if they feel that someone is abusing the system by giving spurious karma.

Again, CRaSH, I don't perceive you as a troll either, but sometimes you can be a bit of a pill!

And no, that picture in my sig is a picture of Angie Zapata who was brutally murdered after she was discovered to be a transsexual.  Her murderer was was convicted of a hate crime, murder in the first degree and sentenced to life imprisonment.  More information is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angie_Zapata

Each year, in November, there is the Transgender Day of Remembrance (TDoR) where we gather in cities across the world to read the names of the dead that have been murdered just that year!  Since we have been keeping records, over two thousand of us have been shot, stabbed, beaten to death, hung and decapitated because of who we are.  Last year an 18 month old child was beaten to death because he acted like a girl!  Often times the murder goes without investigation and the perpetrators are rarely caught and often times successfully claim "gay panic" as their defense and are either given light sentences or get off scott free.

This is in addition to the brutalization that ALL of us have endured in our journey.  EVERY SINGLE ONE ON THIS LIST!  Every person who attempts to change their life in this fundamental way can expect at sometime to be verbally abused, or beaten, or even killed.  This is a dangerous path we walk, but we can do nothing else, but walk it or die.

Perhaps now you might have an inkling why we sometimes respond negatively or seem too sensitive.

If you wish to see what I look like, here is an early picture of me:
https://picasaweb.google.com/102287319312740148918/Feb232011?authkey=Gv1sRgCJLtw9TUwrXOrAE#5576881298706784882

And here is a more recent version:
https://picasaweb.google.com/102287319312740148918/BloggerPictures?authkey=Gv1sRgCMKWifTy58jOuAE#5558958613189545378

I may not be attractive in your eyes, but I am proud of myself and I feel my beauty inside and out.

-Sandy
Out of the darkness, into the light.
Following my bliss.
I am complete...
  •  

-CRaSH-

Quote from: Sandy on April 08, 2011, 11:29:40 AM
Yes, we can respond in anger if we perceive that we are being trivialized or attacked.  It is a response that some of us learn to try to protect ourselves from being treated harshly yet again.

Some come to hate men, specifically because they often times are the source of the violence that so often befall us.  And others personal opinions aside, you are welcome to stay as long as you play well with others (read the TOS).

We are emotional and sensitive often because of the situation we find ourselves in and additionally our ever changing hormonal landscape can take us on a roller coaster of emotions that we have little control over sometimes.

The Karma reputation system is represented by the thumbs up/down on the left side of the page below your avatar.  A subscriber can either give a thumbs up if they respect/agree with the post you have made or they can give it a thumbs down if they disagree or feel you are being overly negative.  It is only to be used sparingly and will be reviewed by Susan or the mods if they feel that someone is abusing the system by giving spurious karma.

Again, CRaSH, I don't perceive you as a troll either, but sometimes you can be a bit of a pill!

And no, that picture in my sig is a picture of Angie Zapata who was brutally murdered after she was discovered to be a transsexual.  Her murderer was was convicted of a hate crime, murder in the first degree and sentenced to life imprisonment.  More information is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angie_Zapata

Each year, in November, there is the Transgender Day of Remembrance (TDoR) where we gather in cities across the world to read the names of the dead that have been murdered just that year!  Since we have been keeping records, over two thousand of us have been shot, stabbed, beaten to death, hung and decapitated because of who we are.  Last year an 18 month old child was beaten to death because he acted like a girl!  Often times the murder goes without investigation and the perpetrators are rarely caught and often times successfully claim "gay panic" as their defense and are either given light sentences or get off scott free.

This is in addition to the brutalization that ALL of us have endured in our journey.  EVERY SINGLE ONE ON THIS LIST!  Every person who attempts to change their life in this fundamental way can expect at sometime to be verbally abused, or beaten, or even killed.  This is a dangerous path we walk, but we can do nothing else, but walk it or die.

Perhaps now you might have an inkling why we sometimes respond negatively or seem too sensitive.

If you wish to see what I look like, here is an early picture of me:
https://picasaweb.google.com/102287319312740148918/Feb232011?authkey=Gv1sRgCJLtw9TUwrXOrAE#5576881298706784882

And here is a more recent version:
https://picasaweb.google.com/102287319312740148918/BloggerPictures?authkey=Gv1sRgCMKWifTy58jOuAE#5558958613189545378

I may not be attractive in your eyes, but I am proud of myself and I feel my beauty inside and out.

-Sandy
Ohhhh.... You've raised a few questions concerning hate crimes towards T's.
I've seen women get violent when they find out that they're dating a T. but I've never heard of them killing them. Does it happen?

And I'll try to not be as abrasive for now on.
  •  

Sandy

Quote from: -CRaSH- on April 08, 2011, 12:13:55 PM
Ohhhh.... You've raised a few questions concerning hate crimes towards T's.
I've seen women get violent when they find out that they're dating a T. but I've never heard of them killing them. Does it happen?

And I'll try to not be as abrasive for now on.

I have not read anything about hate crimes directed toward trans people involving cis-females.  Others may be more knowledgeable and are welcome to chime in. 

It is common for MTF's to deeply conceal their feelings.  They will hide it from everyone, including their spouses and partners.  And when the MTF is discovered or confesses to these deeply hidden feelings, often times the spouse feels betrayed and angry.  It isn't so much that they have feelings of being in the wrong gender that hurts the relationship, but the spouse feels betrayed because they couldn't be trusted with this delicate knowledge when often times the spouse may have confessed their deepest desires to them.  This damages the relationship in a fundamental way and often leads to the dissolution of the relationship.  Nine out of ten marriages end in divorce for us.  It is truly the rare spouse who loves the person within and not the window dressing of the body.  We celebrate those relationships and treasure them like gold.

I appreciate you taking the effort to moderate your statements.  I think you may be surprised by the truly wonderful people here as we may be coming to be surprised by you.

Thank you for that.

-Sandy
Out of the darkness, into the light.
Following my bliss.
I am complete...
  •  

-CRaSH-

Quote from: Valeriedances on April 08, 2011, 02:11:17 PM
Thank you Sandy for such a wonderful post. And thank you Crash for your interest in our community.

The violence, abuse and hate crimes are overwhelmingly from Cis Males, which is a reason we are sensitive and generally fearful. It doesnt matter whether the lady is beautiful or not, or passes perfectly, is post-op or not, just being ts/tg is enough. Beauty can be even more dangerous, just take a look at many of the women murdered. Many are extraordinary. It's so sad.

One thing we have going for us, we are strong because we know who we are.
One of the things that I research constantly is female on male domestic violence. Studies show that it is more common than male on female domestic violence. Yet mostly of what you hear about is the male abusers. Not to mention that a man in an abusive relationship has a rougher time, for various reasons.

This is why I'm particularly interested in female on transexual violence.

And..... You guys are afraid of me?
  •  

MarinaM

I just had a conversation with a man who had no idea... For the first time ever I didn't disclose, and he was pleasant. Just another person.

Not my type, but nice nonetheless. If he sneaks around my facebook long enough he will figure it out. This will prove to be an interesting experiment.
  •