Do you ever feel envious of those with Faith?

[kyril]

For myself i can't understand how people can think all there is is life and death. If they do why don't they go for all they can get? I think its because people have a conscience. If there is just life and death then why have a conscience? Why not logically go after everything you can and take what you want etc etc. This is why there has to be a God and why i have to have faith in God in that one day i will understand my illogical reason to do good verses evil or going after everything for myself. The teachings of God in many religions seems to tell us we have a conscience choice to do good or evil. Yes i have a sister who is righteous and doesn't do evil and helps people and has no belief in god. However, she was raised a catholic up until 5th grade when she switched to public school due to some abuse issues.

If you believe there is no God and all there is is life and death then why do you then use your conscience to do good or maybe you don't?

I don't need a conscience to do good. In fact, I think the thing we call "conscience" - our instinctive feelings about the moral acceptability of actions - is actually not a particularly good moral guide. It overvalues the people closest to us, undervalues strangers and people different from us, and is often skewed by our upbringing in a way that's not healthy for us and not positive for humanity as a whole.

I try to act based on the following principles:
- I am not special. I am just one human out of billions.
- All humans are equally valuable and deserve equal respect and dignity and opportunity - all those alive now, all those who have lived in the past, and all those who will be born in the future. (But we can't do anything about those who have already lived and died.)
- This world is all we have. There is no afterlife to compensate for suffering in this world.

The third is important - in fact, it's key to my morality, just as much as the first two.

[Maddie Secutura]

According to Freud, faith is a form of neurosis.

I tend to agree.  And since neurological disorders are genetically linked, it makes sense that this neurosis could be hereditary with environmental factors filling in the details.  Maybe we all are predisposed to attribute things we see to matters spiritual in nature.  Belief in a beneficial spirit world could have had psychological benefits once upon a time.  The first person to believe this might have had better health due to an optimistic outlook.  That would have been passed down and through survival of the fittest, we all acquired the trait.  It is with this understanding that I'm not necessarily envious of those with faith, but I can appreciate the benefit it has for them.

[tekla]

Maybe we all are predisposed to attribute things we see to matters spiritual in nature.

I know that we are inclined to see patterns, even when none exist.

[Maddie Secutura]

It's called matrixing, especially in the case of facial recognition. 

[VeryGnawty]

I know that we are inclined to see patterns, even when none exist.

Yeah.  A species which doesn't make associations and correlations is a species which is going to be extinct very quickly...

[Sabriel Facrin]

Apologies that I post here despite that I'm not atheist: My beliefs are founded on personal contemplation and comprehension, and in them I have a non-atheist mindset. XD  I want to try to give a thought nonetheless.

But...I think it's alright for things like these to be dug stubbornly into yourself.  You feel envy of people that are able to be devoted and expect things to happen after they die, right?  ---That is a horrible curse to be 'blessed' with.  These are people who devote so much of their life thinking 'It's going to reward me...it's going to reward me'...And so hard to watch, exactly like a child looking forward to a present on a birthday when the parents are too poor to afford the present. ._.;
Your understanding is the gateway of appreciation and the proper devotion to that which is real: You can take everything for what they are, and appreciate and react to the values appropriately.

That's how I think your mindset should handle the moments of weakness.  I hope you don't use it offensively, it's appropriate to use this to give yourself a second wind only. ^^;

[Anatta]

Kia Ora,

For many it would seem ...  "Faith is what takes over when ones confidence runs out ! "

Metta Zenda

[Julie Marie]

Reading this has caused me to wonder if the world was "a better place", would there be as many people who choose faith? 

A lot of people I have seen turn deeply to faith have endured what can be called "their limit" and when I looked into what drove them to their limit is was often things related to social expectations.  They couldn't handle the pressure any longer so they gave their life over to God.

So this got me to wondering if it wasn't socially acceptable to pressure people to do what the masses want them to do and to punish them if they don't (I'm not talking criminal here), would those who chose faith ever be pushed to that point?

[Sabriel Facrin]

I feel pretty sure there would be less, but I also feel pretty sure it would by no means disappear entirely.  Faith isn't just about hiding behind something when things get tough, but its basic objective is also to explain everything.  Everyone always gets into wondering the meaning of life, how things really came about, etc., etc., so the people who are more curious may go into faith anyway.  On the other hand, people wouldn't feel pressured into escapism by seeking religious things that'll tell them that everything's under control, things will get better, etc...
I think that much makes sense... ^^

[Brandon]

No. To be frank, I feel sorry for them that they believe in some psychopathic God that nobody knows for certain actually exists. A God that's supposedly almighty but let's innocent people die every day. A God that creates things he's supposedly hates. Why would he create homosexual and transgender people if he hates them? Why doesn't he just kill Satan and destroy Hell?

Uh not to intrude but that is the same excuse I hear from every Atheist, God lets things happen for a reason you don't have to agree with it but respect peoples beliefs but from my standpoint, I was suppose to be dead at age 9 and as a baby up until infant stage I had a lazy eye that never had surgery only prayers and you can't even notice it know. Everything is not for you to understand just know that thats why you have to learn sometimes other times you just go with the flow.

[Brandon]

I'm sorry, if I'm gonna base my life on something, I want some proof it exists so if it turns it it doesn't, I don't look like an idiot.

So God let's the less unfortunate starve to death and live without homes? He lets people die of cancer and people lose their families and homes because of natural disasters? According to Christians, he's all powerful and can heal people. Whenever somebody survives something traumatic, they say "thank God" but God didn't save all the other people who've suffered through the same.  I find the argument "everything happens for a reason" very contradictory and accepting of the flaws of the idea of God.

Same excuse once again, Who said God is allowing it, You do realize we hav to go through things to make us stronger and better people right? Because if everything was perfect we would all be selfish asses because we never knew what it was like to go through omething yes everything does happen for a reason, But I'm not gonna force my beliefs down your throat, Do what you do and I like how you bi passed everything I said, I am proof that God exist Cancer suvivors are proof that God exist. And ou forget sickness is of the Devil not of God yes he can heal.

[Calder Smith]

Same excuse once again, Who said God is allowing it, You do realize we hav to go through things to make us stronger and better people right? Because if everything was perfect we would all be selfish asses because we never knew what it was like to go through omething yes everything does happen for a reason, But I'm not gonna force my beliefs down your throat, Do what you do and I like how you bi passed everything I said, I am proof that God exist Cancer suvivors are proof that God exist. And ou forget sickness is of the Devil not of God yes he can heal.

God is allowing it. You say he has the power to heal but he picks and chooses who he heals. I try to avoid arguing with religious people because they're so intent on proving themselves even if an Atheist is putting up a good argument and shooting their points down. I've noticed Christians love to make up things and twist things in the Bible for an argument.

Oh, Atheists don't believe in Satan either. It's a bunch of bull like God. Yeah fine, believe in whatever you want. I don't care as long as you don't shove them down my throat and try to brainwash people with stupid ideals (Ex. Westboro Baptist Church). There are many flaws in the idea of God and numerous contradictions, and just stupid ignorant stuff in the Bible. The Bible supports slavery, sexism and genocide; all things I do NOT agree with.

Anyways, I'm out.

[Brandon]

God is allowing it. You say he has the power to heal but he picks and chooses who he heals. I try to avoid arguing with religious people because they're so intent on proving themselves even if an Atheist is putting up a good argument and shooting their points down. I've noticed Christians love to make up things and twist things in the Bible for an argument.

Oh, Atheists don't believe in Satan either. It's a bunch of bull like God. Yeah fine, believe in whatever you want. I don't care as long as you don't shove them down my throat and try to brainwash people with stupid ideals (Ex. Westboro Baptist Church). There are many flaws in the idea of God and numerous contradictions, and just stupid ignorant stuff in the Bible. The Bible supports slavery, sexism and genocide; all things I do NOT agree with.

Anyways, I'm out.

You haven't put up a good arguement though its the same thing every Atheist says I still believe in God and you will never change that. And you probaly have never even read a bible your just assuming stuff know. There is no proof that God doesn't exist. As Ive already stated he does allow things to happen for a reason but if you don't wanna believe it fine atleast be respectful about it.

[Brandon]

You are on an Atheist board. I've been as respectful as I can. There is no proof God exists either, bud.

I have read the Bible. I was a Christian who read the Bible every night and liked going to church but I opened my eyes. I'm not trying to make you not believe in God anymore, but I am trying to open your eyes to what you're basing your life on.

If you think I'm assuming stuff, you must have not read all of the Bible yourself.

Sexism: "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." (1 Timothy 2:12)

Slavery: "Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel." (1 Peter 2:18)

Genocide: "This is what the Lord Almighty says... 'Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.'" (1 Samuel 15:3)

Now, I'm really done here. It's pointless arguing.

Nah bud you really haven't ben respectful telling someone that God doesn't exist is dirspectful or saying that were crazy for believing in him, Who are you to tell someone that? You really need to open your eyes I know my God exist and yes I have read the bible and I'm pretty sure I can quote more scriptures than you. And yes I realize I'm on an Atheist board no different from you coming to the Christianity board, Bro your being very disrespectful its ok to say I don't believe in him but to say someone is crazy for it is rude.  And no the difference between an arguement and a discussion .

[Jill F]

Not at all.

[Nero]

Okay, everyone needs to be respectful of others' faiths and lack thereof. Atheists need to be able to discuss freely on their board same as Christians as long as they are not bashing:

10. Bashing or flaming of any individuals or groups is not acceptable behavior on this web site and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.

I would recommend ignoring the Atheist board if you find you just end up arguing and vice versa. These are support boards and not really meant for debate between groups (debating points within a religion is ok depending).
You can ignore a board by going into your profile and clicking "Ignore Boards Options" on the left.

[Eris]

I think we and particularly Mr Hockey have been more than tolerant of your rhetoric.
He has responded politely and cited examples to support his point of view whilst you have basically said "I'm right because I know I'm right". This is called circular logic, you may wish to look it up.

You have responded by attacking the person and not the argument "Who are you to tell someone that?" let me respond by asking who are you to tell anyone that god is real?
You are accusing someone of being discourteous and have put words into their mouth. "Bro your being very disrespectful its ok to say I don't believe in him but to say someone is crazy for it is rude"
He didn't call you crazy for believing in god, he expressed his opinion that a god who allows the horror which occurs every day to continue has the psychological profile of someone who lacks empathy and is interpersonally exploitative. You may also wish to look up Psychopathic.

"I realize I'm on an Atheist board no different from you coming to the Christianity board" Mr Hockey is not on a Christianity board blindly swearing that there is no god and telling others that "You need to open your eyes!" That right there is extremely disrespectful!
Telling you that god does not exist is no less respectful than you telling someone else that god does exist, I hope you can understand that.
If I went on to a Christianity board and started yelling that I know for a fact that there is no god then I would be the one being disrespectful. This is what you are doing here.

I suggest that you reacquaint yourself with the definition of an argument "a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong."
Mr Hockey was making an argument in an attempt to explain his point of view which is the purpose of any debate.
However - as you failed to provide a reason or reasons for your point of view - all that you were offering was a contradiction like a child arguing "IS!" "ISN'T!" "IS!" "ISN'T!"

Saying that "I'm pretty sure I can quote more scriptures than you" further serves to make you sound like a petulant child arguing in a playground e.g. "No I'm the fastest runner!"
This impression is further conveyed when you then fail to provide any scripture to support your argument despite your claimed reserves of knowledge on the subject.

You say that Mr Hockey must open his eyes to your point of view whilst your own dialogue has remained blinkered and repetitive.

It is my fond hope that you take some of what I have said on board and understand how you are presenting yourself on this board.

If you feel that I have been unfair in my assessment then please explain your position with examples (preferably quotations from what I have actually said) and possibly in a private message as I'm not certain that those who came to this topic wish to witness an argument about etiquette. Please do not simply continue to repeat yourself.

If anyone else feels that I have overstepped my bounds as a member of this forum then I would honestly like to know, I am relatively new to this environment and may not be aware if I am making a faux pas. I have faith that I have expressed my displeasure without being crass or needlessly offensive but no faith should be blind and all beliefs deserve to be challenged.

[Brandon]

I think we and particularly Mr Hockey have been more than tolerant of your rhetoric.
He has responded politely and cited examples to support his point of view whilst you have basically said "I'm right because I know I'm right". This is called circular logic, you may wish to look it up.

You have responded by attacking the person and not the argument "Who are you to tell someone that?" let me respond by asking who are you to tell anyone that god is real?
You are accusing someone of being discourteous and have put words into their mouth. "Bro your being very disrespectful its ok to say I don't believe in him but to say someone is crazy for it is rude"
He didn't call you crazy for believing in god, he expressed his opinion that a god who allows the horror which occurs every day to continue has the psychological profile of someone who lacks empathy and is interpersonally exploitative. You may also wish to look up Psychopathic.

"I realize I'm on an Atheist board no different from you coming to the Christianity board" Mr Hockey is not on a Christianity board blindly swearing that there is no god and telling others that "You need to open your eyes!" That right there is extremely disrespectful!
Telling you that god does not exist is no less respectful than you telling someone else that god does exist, I hope you can understand that.
If I went on to a Christianity board and started yelling that I know for a fact that there is no god then I would be the one being disrespectful. This is what you are doing here.

I suggest that you reacquaint yourself with the definition of an argument "a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong."
Mr Hockey was making an argument in an attempt to explain his point of view which is the purpose of any debate.
However - as you failed to provide a reason or reasons for your point of view - all that you were offering was a contradiction like a child arguing "IS!" "ISN'T!" "IS!" "ISN'T!"

Saying that "I'm pretty sure I can quote more scriptures than you" further serves to make you sound like a petulant child arguing in a playground e.g. "No I'm the fastest runner!"
This impression is further conveyed when you then fail to provide any scripture to support your argument despite your claimed reserves of knowledge on the subject.

You say that Mr Hockey must open his eyes to your point of view whilst your own dialogue has remained blinkered and repetitive.

It is my fond hope that you take some of what I have said on board and understand how you are presenting yourself on this board.

If you feel that I have been unfair in my assessment then please explain your position with examples (preferably quotations from what I have actually said). Please do not simply continue to repeat yourself.

If anyone else feels that I have overstepped my bounds as a member of this forum then I would honestly like to know, I am relatively new to this environment and may not be aware if I am making a faux pas. I have faith that I have expressed my displeasure without being crass or needlessly offensive but no faith should be blind and all beliefs deserve to be challenged.

I'm not attacking anyone or agueing, he can believe whatever the hell he wants to believe. And me saying God is real is not disrespectful at all, but I don't appreciate being called crazy for my belief when I almost died at the age of 9 and should be dead. Clearly he bashed my religion but its ok.

[Brandon]

I'm not judging him fo his bliefs but don't disrespect me or my religion. But your an Atheist to so of course you would stick up for another one.

[Calder Smith]

I deleted my posts because I don't want to be reminded of this argument as I have other things going on.

Look, you're on a board meant for Atheism and you're complaining about being disrespected. Obviously, we're not going to agree with you. I think you're being hypocritical. It's ok to say God exists but it's not ok to say he doesn't is what I'm getting from you. I didn't disrespect you on a personal level. I debated with you about your faith; I didn't directly call you names or insult you.