Susan's Place Transgender Resources

okay a question.

I tend to hear a couple of mtf who talk about period to be the best thing who ever could happent to them.

I dont understand how this bleeding, being in pain, making your landery dirty and so on could be something to look forward too, but I understand the thing about if your have period you can have biological children which many wish for.

so my question now is;
if you would like to have period, would you still had that wish if it ment you still would be unable to have children?

Quote from: Natkat on February 18, 2012, 05:54:33 AM
okay a question.if you would like to have period, would you still had that wish if it ment you still would be unable to have children?

Sounds INSANE to me NatKat - the whole point and joy of being, expressing third-gender is uniting the best attitudes and qualities of both and periods doesn't strike me a very appealing at all ! My daughter, who's just turned 14 (lol and spells like you), finds it the most annoying thing in the world and wishes it wasn't true but as a parent myself i could tell you *having children is the most rewarding thing in life that anyone could ever do*

It pains me to hear about so many *alleged non-accepting* parents here; i always tell my kids the same thing my father told me "i love and support you regardless* and i suppose *tampons* will always be a part of "the girl drama", what ya gonna do?

Is it really THAT bad? Some seem to deal with it better than others. Try having to *shave face* everyday ! Do YOU really want a *scruffy beard*?

Even my cis-gender female friends are a little jealous that I won't have periods...

I'm really happy about that, and part of the reason is that I have ZERO desire for kids anyway. As a male, I seriously considered a vasectomy as early as 24.

Quote from: Kiera on February 18, 2012, 06:55:25 AM
Sounds INSANE to me NatKat - the whole point and joy of being, expressing third-gender is uniting the best attitudes and qualities of both and periods doesn't strike me a very appealing at all ! My daughter, who's just turned 14 (lol and spells like you), finds it the most annoying thing in the world and wishes it wasn't true but as a parent myself i could tell you *having children is the most rewarding thing in life that anyone could ever do*

It pains me to hear about so many *alleged non-accepting* parents here; i always tell my kids the same thing my father told me "i love and support you regardless* and i suppose *tampons* will always be a part of "the girl drama", what ya gonna do?

Is it really THAT bad? Some seem to deal with it better than others. Try having to *shave face* everyday ! Do YOU really want a *scruffy beard*?

you sound kinda offended, I wasnt trying to attack anyone, I am just asking a question.

in fact yes I already pretty much shave everyday so I want something more I could shave off,
I just wondering if the wish of having period, as I heard a couple of mtf talking about, only is related to the wish of having children or if there is more to it than that.

great question, Natkat.  I can't wait for my monthly to end, i don't ever want kids, so have no need for those parts.  I hope to have a total hyster someday but that is down the road in my transtioning plans.

Natkat: Interesting question. For me, I know that I can never experience menstruation and the subsequent energetic/psychic/root chakra cycle that surrounds that.
I already have two children and easily/naturally adopted the role as mother/nurturer for them.
Earlier in my transition when researching the sociological history of transsexual / transgender, I considered what it would be like to observe a monthly blood ritual, but it never took hold of me in a way the brought me to try it. Here is a bit of info:

Quote...early ethnographers observed a Mojave two-spirit man who was also faking a woman's menstruation by scratching his inner thighs until he bled thus faking menstrual bleeding.

My note: I don't agree with the use or tone of the word 'faking' which in my mind makes the ritual seem delusional. That being said, from the research I've done on native American 'trans' folk of all types -- they had a rough time being accepted in the societies (tribes) they lived in as well, so perhaps the seeming derogatory use of the word 'faked' is not so far off the mark. In any event, point being, 'to each his or her own'. I try to see the truth of an individual and how they reflect and represent their true inner self. Trying to judge what is 'right' or 'authentic' in others is a slippery slope, because to make differences is a disease of the mind (Sengstan) it infects you, and then you are caught up in endless differences, when the truth is found in wholeness, oneness and other such inner contemplations.

quote source: http://www.dancingtoeaglespiritsociety.org/twospirit.php (http://www.dancingtoeaglespiritsociety.org/twospirit.php)

Well I experience PMS and I used to get really bad cramps in my lower abdomen  all the time.
Apparently that's kind of what a period is like for some, and I will say it is a horrible experience.

Being "bitchy" and cramped up persistently is not fun at all.

I would love to hate having a monthly cycle.

I would also, rather enjoy complaining about it.

Quote from: Natkat on February 18, 2012, 10:14:55 AMI just wondering if the wish of having period, as I heard a couple of mtf talking about, only is related to the wish of having children or if there is more to it than that.

I think it's probably the same sort of thing as you wanting a beard.  All of us (okay, maybe not ALL of us, lol) would desperately rather have been born with the correct attributes matching our inner reality, rather than have to "make do" with making what we HAVE match as close as possible.  For MTF's, that means HRT brings boobs, and we go for vaginoplasty, etc.  If we COULD have an actual functional uterus, ovaries, etc., I'm sure a lot of us would want that, even if it meant periods.

Also, for you, periods are just as discomforting as our beards are to us.  So just think how much you want a full beard (and you will have it, too, but you will probably lose hair on top, lol), and how much we do NOT want our beard, then turn it around to periods, it's probably about the same sort of thing.

I conjecture that periods are worse than beards...but I only know one half of that equation.

Well, I currently go every week for electrolysis, which means I shave on Sunday morning and then leave it (not shave) until after my electro appointment Tuesday afternoon.  Tuesdays are HELL for me.  My beard is currently the VERY WORST sort of dysphoria trigger.  I don't go out.  I work from home that day.  Nobody sees me, I can barely stand myself.  And this happens every week.  Ugh!!

Quote from: Colleen Ireland on February 18, 2012, 02:30:58 PM
I think it's probably the same sort of thing as you wanting a beard.  All of us (okay, maybe not ALL of us, lol) would desperately rather have been born with the correct attributes matching our inner reality, rather than have to "make do" with making what we HAVE match as close as possible.  For MTF's, that means HRT brings boobs, and we go for vaginoplasty, etc.  If we COULD have an actual functional uterus, ovaries, etc., I'm sure a lot of us would want that, even if it meant periods.

Also, for you, periods are just as discomforting as our beards are to us.  So just think how much you want a full beard (and you will have it, too, but you will probably lose hair on top, lol), and how much we do NOT want our beard, then turn it around to periods, it's probably about the same sort of thing.

The nice thing is, nobody is forced to grow a beard  :D

Quote from: pretty on February 18, 2012, 03:12:50 PM
The nice thing is, nobody is forced to grow a beard  :D

Well, it's either that or shave...  ::)

Quote from: Natkat on February 18, 2012, 05:54:33 AM
if you would like to have period, would you still had that wish if it ment you still would be unable to have children?

Of course.

I will gladly swap my uterus and ovaries and period for a nice pair of blue balls and a nice scruffy beard....any takers?

Also in response to the OP I never wanted a period and I think wanting one would constitute some level of insanity  :D

Haha, I'd take 'em.

  I think we as transwomen lucked out on that one seriously periods and still can't give birth eh no thanks.  :icon_blink:

  I'd love to be able to get pregnant but periods go hand in hand with that so idk.

I don't think it's crazy to want something that is such a unique aspect of the female experience.  It's hard being around girls who have had those experiences and can relate to each other on that level.  Whenever periods/pregnancy/birth control are brought up, I become more dysphoric and feel like a fake.  If I could have periods, I would no longer feel like a complete outcast from all the other girls I know.

Natkat, this is an interesting point.

I suppose the best way I can explain it is by saying I would like to feel I was a normal as any other girl.

I can't say I would relish the uncomfortable bits. I've worked in Maternity and seen 11 babies being born, as well as a large number of pre and post delivery mothers. I can't in all honesty say I would like to deliver a baby. But I would love to be a mum.

Is that what you were asking?

Quote from: EmilyElizabeth on February 18, 2012, 04:43:54 PMWhenever periods/pregnancy/birth control are brought up, I become more dysphoric and feel like a fake.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This.

Not that I feel like a fake, but when women are together in groups, they often discuss their pregnancy and childbirth experiences.  I can join into a discussion of raising kids (I've raised 3), but the closest I can come to joining a preg/birth convo is to describe some of what my ex went through, and that's not only not the same, it would come across as weird.  So yeah, there are places we can't go, and that sucks.  Part of the journey, tho, and I think we just have to make the best of things as they are till something better comes along...

Quote from: Colleen Ireland on February 18, 2012, 05:10:01 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This.

Not that I feel like a fake, but when women are together in groups, they often discuss their pregnancy and childbirth experiences.  I can join into a discussion of raising kids (I've raised 3), but the closest I can come to joining a preg/birth convo is to describe some of what my ex went through, and that's not only not the same, it would come across as weird.  So yeah, there are places we can't go, and that sucks.  Part of the journey, tho, and I think we just have to make the best of things as they are till something better comes along...

Don't forget that there are lots of cis-women who have reproductive problems and they don't feel like a fake!

Quote from: Kiera on February 18, 2012, 06:55:25 AM
Sounds INSANE to me NatKat - the whole point and joy of being, expressing third-gender is uniting the best attitudes and qualities of both and periods doesn't strike me a very appealing at all ! My daughter, who's just turned 14 (lol and spells like you), finds it the most annoying thing in the world and wishes it wasn't true but as a parent myself i could tell you *having children is the most rewarding thing in life that anyone could ever do*

Kiera he's not a native english speaker. And I happen to LOVE the way Natkat uses language and grammar, just never knew how to say so without sounding like I'm making fun of him. His intent and approach filtered through his handle on spelling and syntax makes everything he says kind of weirdly poetic. Not to detract from the content. He does have a good question here.

Quote from: Colleen Ireland on February 18, 2012, 02:30:58 PM
I think it's probably the same sort of thing as you wanting a beard.  All of us (okay, maybe not ALL of us, lol) would desperately rather have been born with the correct attributes matching our inner reality, rather than have to "make do" with making what we HAVE match as close as possible.  For MTF's, that means HRT brings boobs, and we go for vaginoplasty, etc.  If we COULD have an actual functional uterus, ovaries, etc., I'm sure a lot of us would want that, even if it meant periods.

Also, for you, periods are just as discomforting as our beards are to us.  So just think how much you want a full beard (and you will have it, too, but you will probably lose hair on top, lol), and how much we do NOT want our beard, then turn it around to periods, it's probably about the same sort of thing.

I guess a beard are worse for mtf than periods are as periods mostly are to hide and not all the time.
---
spacial
I am asking if wanting period is related to the wish of being able to have children.

in other words,
if you could have period, but still where unable to have children biological would you like too have that?

Don't periods also end after going on testosterone?

Quote from: EmilyElizabeth on February 22, 2012, 10:41:13 AM
Don't periods also end after going on testosterone?

I'm going through menopause right now. ;D

Quote from: Natkat on February 19, 2012, 01:13:28 PM
I guess a beard are worse for mtf than periods are as periods mostly are to hide and not all the time.

Periods are probably worse because of the fact that periods suck for all people who have them.  Cis girls also hate getting them, because it's painful and messy and can mess with your emotions.  So you take something that's already total crap and add the gender dysphoria aspect and it's pretty bad IMO.  Beards on the other hand aren't upsetting on their own, I've never heard of a boy being upset that he can grow facial hair now.  So maybe beards are more comparable to having breasts or something?  In that they are only upsetting if you're not happy with your biological sex?

Well, I think we're talking strictly in terms of trans people here, so for two different people transitioning, one an MTF and the other an FTM (and assuming both have access to their respective hormone treatments) the FTM would have a considerably easier time getting rid of his periods (simply waiting for testosterone to take effect sufficiently) than an MTF would have getting rid of her facial hair (hours of laser/electrolysis, thousands of dollars and having to worry every day that her facial hair is showing and that it will out her).

In respond to Chamillion, I know of no cis girl/woman how likes getting their period. The mess and pain is no fun, also you  cannot enjoy your bf or husband very well at that time.  Knowing this will happen every month can effect your emotion too and many times it comes when you have something important planned and don't need the pain or mess down there.  I can see why some of the newer BC methods that allow a women to have only 4 periods a year are so polarular with women.  Only when a woman wants to get pregnant is she concerned about getting her period or not. Also, I agree that beards and breasts are problably a better comparison, for transpersons trys to hide or remove them.

I agree with EmilyElizabeth, hormones have completely different effects on periods and beards.  T in a short time will stops a ftm's periods, where E has little effect on facial hair so not a good comparison.  Again beards and breasts are a better comparison.

I would like to have periods  see a doctor feel the baby move in kick go into l see a doctor feel the baby move in kick go into labor give birth and breastfeed

i just want kids. after 3 months of always bleeding post op and then spotting there for after i can say i have had my fill of that experience. haha  ::)

I wouldn't mind them. (Might change my mind once I get to actually try it, heh.) They would make me feel normal, and normality is comforting.

If they didn't come with reproductive ability, then no, I wouldn't really want them so much that I'd want to undergo an operation for it. It sounds like asking if I'd like to pay (period) for the bread (reproductive ability) even though I won't get the bread.

If I was offered to get them or not, magically, instantly, then I might choose them, in search of normality, or confirmation of my feminity. But I would probably not, because it's probably not worth it, and it's not very rational to want something unpleasant because it's normal.

However, if I could keep the magic wand, I'd at least want to live through it once, to know what it's like.

Yes because one, I wouldn't have to take pills and two, if some dumb ciswoman challenges my womenhood by telling me I don't get periods then I could just be like "BETCH, YES I DO!!!"

Oh, do periods come with natural hormone production in this situation? If so, yes, I want the whole kit. I'm almost sure.

I don't understand why anyone would WANT a period.

That's all i'll say.

.

This all goes back to the worst aspect of my dysphoria.  Being a complete woman starts as a girl, having that first period, growing into a new body as a teenager, becoming a grown woman, falling in love, having the experience of climaxing sex, getting pregnant, bearing a child, and lovingly nursing an infant that grew inside me.   That's what I've missed, and I'm finally learning to deal with it. 

I can't live with myself as a man, and I can't be that complete woman.  Oh sh*t.  I guess it's time to see a therapist again. 

But really.  If I could, I would.  All of it.  :)

Kathy

My roommate who is generic girl, says to me, that I am lucky that I will never have a period, she says that she cramps quite bad, and it is uncomfortable. She jokes with me and says its unfair that I get all perks of being a woman, with none of the bad parts. I reply, yes but i can never have children.

Knowing all this, I still would love to experience a period. Its part of being a woman and its something all woman share and can never be part of that. I know they researching transplanting female reproductive organs, and they this has being done.. see below.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/19/health/uterine-transplant (http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/19/health/uterine-transplant)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8571487/Worlds-first-womb-transplant-planned.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8571487/Worlds-first-womb-transplant-planned.html)


I know this type of surgery is decades off being mainstream.

But if it became mainstream...  I would go for it.. then i would be a complete woman,.  I would get periods and would able to fall pregnant. 

I actually wouldn't mind having a monthy "friend." yes they probably are not fun, but its part of being female

Quote from: kathy b on March 19, 2013, 11:20:47 PM
Being a complete woman starts as a girl, having that first period, growing into a new body as a teenager, becoming a grown woman, falling in love, having the experience of climaxing sex, getting pregnant, bearing a child, and lovingly nursing an infant that grew inside me.

I'm not so sure that falling in love, having a baby, nursing an infant and multiple climactic orgasms are experiences all women share. Some women are barren. other's have endometriosis, some women just have miscarriages (which are horrible) and some women just don't choose to nurse. What makes a woman? IDK. But I don't think it is the ability to have a period. Of course, go to any comment section where someone bashes transwomen and they will say they can't have babies; they are not women. That is the number one argument. I don't know what a woman is, but I know one when I see her.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on March 21, 2013, 08:02:23 PM
I'm not so sure that falling in love, having a baby, nursing an infant and multiple climactic orgasms are experiences all women share. Some women are barren. other's have endometriosis, some women just have miscarriages (which are horrible) and some women just don't choose to nurse. What makes a woman? IDK. But I don't think it is the ability to have a period. Of course, go to any comment section where someone bashes transwomen and they will say they can't have babies; they are not women. That is the number one argument. I don't know what a woman is, but I know one when I see her.

You're correct Joanna.  I should have said it's my personal view of what I would want to experience as a complete woman.  I have two older sisters, and one of them could never concieve, while the other miscarried three times at around three months, and even with that she did carry three more to full term.  Then the wife of one of my four brothers had a similar problem concieving and only got pregnant after they had given up hope. 

I can't imagine the pain and guilt they all felt.  And yet I'd accept everything fate could send my way.

Oh, I just saw your ticker, and it seems I missed seeing that you started HRT 17 days ago.  Congratulations. 

Kathy

Thanks. Sorry I am a little bit pissy at times so if my reply came across as mean I didn't mean too.

Potentially unpopular opinion time: as much as I dislike not having a vulva, I'm extremely grateful for the fact that I'll never menstruate or give birth.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on March 21, 2013, 09:49:43 PM
Thanks. Sorry I am a little bit pissy at times so if my reply came across as mean I didn't mean too.

I though you were just being honest.  Truth and honesty is what this forum is all about.

Hugs.  Kathy

 I'm pretty fine with not having a period. While it's an experience that I cannot have, that I would have had if I were born correctly, I don't believe I'm worse off for it - I still pay my dues to Pain in spades. It's for more or less the same reason; that is, the privilege of being able to live as female, and I don't think that the fact that the pain I experience is any less valuable for being purely emotional. If anything, it is more profound than the pain of a period, and it is certainly felt more often.

It's the fact that I'm not what I'd like to be, and I that I am not what I believe myself to be in any place other than between my ears. My body is incomplete, and it always will be. To add to this my opinions on how I appear to others compounds my sadness, and how I feel about how I don't or can't relate properly relate to people compounds it again.

I don't believe that I would have felt all this if I had been born, raised, and socialized correctly. However, my life must take the path that it takes, and I must make the choices I make in order to make the best out of that path. A part of this is realizing that we all have our individual struggles, and while I may not have one that I would have in common with much of the world, I do have some that give me commonality to a small part of the world - our own community, and kind.

This fellowship probably goes unnoticed, a lot of the time, especially given the nature of trans people. With the ideal being to have "trans" be a part of the past - a detail - we probably forget that it's a very unique experience that should help tie us together.  We need to be able to support each other in the world, and frankly, I think it's a shame that there is pressure to be stealth. It is a practical solution to make life easier in the world we live in today, but I don't believe it's a very wise choice because of how it affects those who will life their lives in the world of the years to come.

I hope that we can eventually become proud of what we are, and the fact that it makes us unique, and gives us a very special perspective. It comes with its own set of challenges, for sure, but the world will open up to us if we let it. For many, the world has some use for more trans pioneers, but the day of unawareness of the trans condition is coming to a close. I'm not sure that the world will embrace us for some time, but acceptance is right around the proverbial corner.

In order to reach out for it, we need to first reach into ourselves. In order for the world to be proud of us, we need to first be proud of ourselves.

There is a lot to be proud of, for those of us who live this fantastic tragedy. So long as we can keep our chins up, find or hold onto our happiness, accept and be proud of who and what we are, and be proud of how we live our lives, our pride is justified. I don't believe that such a person would need a period for the sake of validation, and I don't believe that such a person would want to unnecessarily add to the challenge that their life offers already.

I am what I am, and I don't regret what I am. I'm not upset about not having periods, because I am proud to be trans. Perhaps my pride is present to spite the difficulties that that aspect of my nature brings with it, but it is also at least in part due to the fact that I still exist, despite those challenges, that I still chase after happiness despite all the sadness that those challenges bring, and that I can be happy and at peace with what I am, in spite of words and thoughts that attempt to tempt me otherwise.

These feelings, of course, transcend the topic of periods. I can be happy with all that I have, and all that I don't have. I will change what I can, and I will embrace what I can't. What a person can't change is a part of what makes them unique - the other part is how they deal with it. For the sake of health and sanity, I hope that everyone can, in time, learn to love themselves for all of what they are, and for all of what they aren't, because those are the things make that person who they are. To be able to love oneself, perfectly, is to be at peace.

And such a person does not need to add or take away from their suffering to be any happier than they already are.

Quote from: Kelly J. P. on March 22, 2013, 01:46:30 AM
........  I don't think that the fact that the pain I experience is any less valuable for being purely emotional. If anything, it is more profound than the pain of a period, and it is certainly felt more often.

These feelings, of course, transcend the topic of periods. I can be happy with all that I have, and all that I don't have. I will change what I can, and I will embrace what I can't. What a person can't change is a part of what makes them unique - the other part is how they deal with it. For the sake of health and sanity, I hope that everyone can, in time, learn to love themselves for all of what they are, and for all of what they aren't, because those are the things make that person who they are. To be able to love oneself, perfectly, is to be at peace.

And such a person does not need to add or take away from their suffering to be any happier than they already are.

Kelly:  I quoted these parts of your post because they meant the most to me.  But I cried while reading each paragraph, and you said it all.  I don't want to expand on it, other than this little statement.

When you described the profound nature of our pain it immediately made me mourn those who are no longer with us.  Those who suffered all the profound pain they could stand.  No, a period doesn't compare to this.


But to go on.  I still haven't been able to deal with never being the girl and woman I describe.  There will come a time to bury the life that never was, and to have the peace that follows.   I have to move past this part of my life because I no longer want to cover up the pain that lurks inside, and it darkens whatever joy I have every day.  I accept myself, but I still haven't accepted what I wasn't.

For now life goes on, I'll smile about what I have, and look forward to so much more.  And then there's the special joy of holding, caring for, and expressing love for my grandson.  Even if my son and daughter in law don't really understand what's happened to me,  they still accept me as their childs grandfather (kind of, and for now ).  After all, they will never accept me as another grandmother to their little boy.   :)

Oh yes, I'll take it just the way it is because it's me.  But do I really love myself yet?  I don't know.

Love
Kathy

That was beautiful Kelly. If there was a Post of the Year award, you'd win it.

Quote from: Cassandra Hyacinth on March 21, 2013, 10:03:54 PM
Potentially unpopular opinion time: as much as I dislike not having a vulva, I'm extremely grateful for the fact that I'll never menstruate or give birth.

And time for another really unpopular opinion: Sometimes I actually miss my period.  :o
There, I said it. lol