Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I came across an open letter to the Southern Poverty Law Center claiming there is a website that deliberately outs transwomen, and asking them to investigate.

http://www.change.org/petitions/southern-poverty-law-center-monitor-gender-identity-watch-as-a-hate-group-2 (http://www.change.org/petitions/southern-poverty-law-center-monitor-gender-identity-watch-as-a-hate-group-2)

Does anyone know anything about this? Is this true?

I almost wish I hadn't read this thread and discovered this ugliness but yes, the hate site is http://genderidentitywatch.com/ but don't go there unless you have a strong stomach for ugliness. :(

BTW, I never heard of it before reading this.

Seriously, what is wrong with some people?  ???

I read the site but did not find a list of outed transgender people. many lists of people that they felt threatened by and incorrect pronouns, many 'reasons' for their opinion and hate, but not listings.

I've heard of the site but wasnt aware of any outing.

The infamous banned blogger does go on youtube and blogs andposts photos and videos of people who came out online as FTM.

We all need to be careful online, because anyone can steal our pictures with a simple snipping/grab program, or download our photos from photobucket if we link directly to photobucket. We should all expect that someone is out there watching us and may potentially use us to advance their agenda.

Quote from: LordKAT on November 23, 2013, 06:30:35 PM
I read the site but did not find a list of outed transgender people. many lists of people that they felt threatened by and incorrect pronouns, many 'reasons' for their opinion and hate, but not listings.

Are you arguing semantics LordKAT? I didn't see a list per se, but I saw lots of links to trans people they are tracking, complete with pictures.  The first link I followed to be sure was a 10-year-old trans girl.  :o

Go to any of their archive pages such as http://genderidentitywatch.com/2013/10/ and click on a person's name and you'll see.

Edit: Technically, these people like that 10-y-o girl are already out, so they may not be outing them but they're tracking them and storing pictures and personal info on their servers.

No argument, just observation. Suzi's post sounded like she expected a list or series of outed transwomen. I stated what I noticed. I'm sorry it pricked you unjustly.

No worries, LK.  Your post didn't bother me; it's just that site that I find disturbing. ;)

Quote from: Marissa on November 23, 2013, 06:48:36 PM
No worries, LK.  Your post didn't bother me; it's just that site that I find disturbing. ;)

Fair enough. It is a disturbing site.

It's really quite cult like - glorifying "pure" Women and attacking "heretics". Always distressing to see feminism taken beyond equality, doubly so when we are targeted. :(

Quote from: suzifrommd on November 23, 2013, 04:41:42 PM
I came across an open letter to the Southern Poverty Law Center claiming there is a website that deliberately outs transwomen, and asking them to investigate.

http://www.change.org/petitions/southern-poverty-law-center-monitor-gender-identity-watch-as-a-hate-group-2 (http://www.change.org/petitions/southern-poverty-law-center-monitor-gender-identity-watch-as-a-hate-group-2)

Does anyone know anything about this? Is this true?

The website exits and is operated by that loathsome Cathy "Bug" Brennan.  She recently outed the teen transgirl who was involved the PJI smear campaign.

See below:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-6xvqQarVNWk%2FUBgAdrA-tTI%2FAAAAAAAAYU8%2FcJ3L2uwSYHI%2Fs1600%2F12Cathy%2Bbrennan%2Bhatin.jpg&hash=b90e1bfb6638267310e80f973d63110e7f531b47)

Haters gonna hate.

I really don't get why everybody gets so upset with this woman. She don't like trans women oh well she calls us men oh well I can't make her like me nor do I want too. How many people actual people read her blog? If you get outed does that mean like ten more people know your trans.  ::) And I think more trans people are reading her site than her intended audience.
If you want her to stop attacking us maybe we should just let her be instead of attacking her I'd fight back too if I had a bunch of people telling me how to think. We as a community have to learn to have a thicker skin and realize you can't change the way people think by attacking them. ;)

Quote from: Heather on November 23, 2013, 11:46:29 PM
I really don't get why everybody gets so upset with this woman. She don't like trans women oh well she calls us men oh well I can't make her like me nor do I want too. How many people actual people read her blog? If you get outed does that mean like ten more people know your trans.  ::) And I think more trans people are reading her site than her intended audience.
If you want her to stop attacking us maybe we should just let her be instead of attacking her I'd fight back too if I had a bunch of people telling me how to think. We as a community have to learn to have a thicker skin and realize you can't change the way people think by attacking them. ;)

That was my feeling too. She is even more "fringe" than we are...and she is making no effort to make herself more mainstream, so she'll stay isolated (and harmless).

Standard Interwebz policy: Don't feed the troll.

Its like watching a trainwreck to be honest. She is the worst kind of messed up person. They talk about a transman being allowed to go to a prom dressed as a man because its how she identifies as a man and we should fght the gender stereotypes but would then trash a transwoman for doing the same damn thing. Honestly its people like this that made my mother not wanting to be called a feminist. Shes just a man-hater plain and simple. People like her need to be sectioned. She isn't helping anyone but her own sick agenda.

Quote from: Heather on November 23, 2013, 11:46:29 PM
I really don't get why everybody gets so upset with this woman. She don't like trans women oh well she calls us men oh well I can't make her like me nor do I want too. How many people actual people read her blog? If you get outed does that mean like ten more people know your trans.  ::) And I think more trans people are reading her site than her intended audience.
If you want her to stop attacking us maybe we should just let her be instead of attacking her I'd fight back too if I had a bunch of people telling me how to think. We as a community have to learn to have a thicker skin and realize you can't change the way people think by attacking them. ;)

Let me provide an analogy, a statement by Rev. Martin Niemöller, talking about his experience in Nazi Germany:

    First they came for the communists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

    Then they came for the socialists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

    Then they came for me,
    and there was no one left to speak for me.

Brennan dehumanizes us.  She invalidates our experience.  She is hatred personified.

I'd rather not have my brains kicked in by radfem thugs.

The problem with these fruitcakes isn't their fringe beliefs, but that, as women who claim to be feminists and who claim to be experts on LGBT issues, and have absolutely extreme anti-trans beliefs, they have been consulted, listened to, and have testified before, state and federal legislatures in this country, and their materials and "testimonies" have been used to support anti-trans (I was going to describe them but they are too triggering even to mention) laws and edicts overseas.

Like any hate group, until it is outed as a hate group, right wing media or right wing political groups will continue to use it as a source for justifying hate, while cloaking it in a patina of neutral expertise.

Is it just me or most of TERFs have way too much male gender markers in their faces?

Oh well, what I was trying to say - they are jealous that we at times are more feminine that they will ever be.

Quote from: J on November 24, 2013, 05:20:50 AM
Let me provide an analogy, a statement by Rev. Martin Niemöller, talking about his experience in Nazi Germany:

    First they came for the communists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

    Then they came for the socialists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

    Then they came for me,
    and there was no one left to speak for me.

Brennan dehumanizes us.  She invalidates our experience.  She is hatred personified.

I'd rather not have by brains kicked in by radfem thugs.

How many brains has she actually kicked in? Yes you may not like what she is saying but she does have the freedom to say it and I'm not about to try to take that from her. How many times have you heard of a radical feminist attacking someone physically I really can't think of any. She has a website that only a few feminist read and is probably read by more trans people.
Do I like her blog no and the first time I came across it I cried my eyes out that someone who didn't know me could dislike me that much. But you know what I'm a stronger woman because I saw what people who don't like me for no real reason say and still had the courage to be myself and live my life everyday as myself. A person can only dehumanize you if you let them and I don't. No matter what she puts on her blog I'm going to continue to live my life as myself and I'm going to live my life above such petty arguing.
Life is way to short to be worried about what other people are saying if she wants to waste her one life attacking people on her blog let her she's only making herself look bad. And we are making ourselves look bad by trying to silence her voice my mom taught me two wrongs don't make a right so maybe we should we should be the ones to let go of this pointless arguing with her. ;)

Sorry to be ignorant but I must ask a genuine question... what the blooming heck is a TERF please?

I'm easily confused  ??? I know.

On the subject of the website - it clearly doesn't hold quite the same emotive power for me as I can understand that it would for you, so I kind oscillated between boredom, bemusement, distaste and indeed even some pity for the kind of sad damaged individual who would invest such energy in so hurtful an enterprise, directed against individuals who have can have done her no personal harm.

Quote from: Doctorwho? on November 24, 2013, 07:13:51 AM
Sorry to be ignorant but I must ask a genuine question... what the blooming heck is a TERF please?

I'm easily confused  ??? I know.

It is an acronym for Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists - they claim that transwomen aren't really women. Some of them even went that far to claim that transwomen are the secret weapon and undercover agents working for patriarchy... Maybe they are really nice people if You get to know them better, but on the other hand... maybe they aren't. Go figure :)

Quote from: Heather on November 24, 2013, 07:12:44 AM
And we are making ourselves look bad by trying to silence her voice my mom taught me two wrongs don't make a right so maybe we should we should be the ones to let go of this pointless arguing with her. ;)

No, we should not be trying to silence her.

That's not what the petition is about.

It's not about silencing her, it's about calling out her rhetoric as hate, about producing a consensus that her dialog is not respectful or beneficial.

One can argue that it's not a good tactic. I'm sympathetic to the point posted here that we legitimize her by response. But would you agree that "silencing" someone, and contributing to the dialog by making our case for how damaging her words are, mean two different things?

Quote from: suzifrommd on November 24, 2013, 11:56:44 AM
No, we should not be trying to silence her.

That's not what the petition is about.

It's not about silencing her, it's about calling out her rhetoric as hate, about producing a consensus that her dialog is not respectful or beneficial....

Agreed. +1 ;)

I read her site and was confused.  How is it that all of us are MRA's or homophobic because we are trans?  I have nothing against gays or lesbians and don't begrudge anyone who would not date someone who is trans nor would I want to date a lesbian because that isn't my preference.  Just because she is aware of one aspect of us, doesn't mean she should assume the totality of our views and beliefs.  And why am I supporting the patriarchy when I just ask to be respected for who I am?  If you truly believe gender and gender norms are social constructs and should be abolished, then why go so far to shame people who don't fit into the societal molds that were established and those who attempt to break through them.  At the end of the day, I am me and all I ask is to be treated with respect.  If you choose to take issue with us for being transgender, that's your privilege, but at least give us the courtesy to be treated with some respect for who we are and how we view ourselves.  I just want to live a happy life as the person I am, I'm not doing this for some political statement nor will I be pressured into an unfair gender box that doesn't suit me because it doesn't fit your politics.  There are so many assumptions about what we feel and think that I wonder if she has seriously sat down and had a sincere heart to heart talk with a transgender person. 

Quote from: suzifrommd on November 24, 2013, 11:56:44 AM
No, we should not be trying to silence her.

That's not what the petition is about.

It's not about silencing her, it's about calling out her rhetoric as hate, about producing a consensus that her dialog is not respectful or beneficial.

One can argue that it's not a good tactic. I'm sympathetic to the point posted here that we legitimize her by response. But would you agree that "silencing" someone, and contributing to the dialog by making our case for how damaging her words are, mean two different things?

I've got to be honest.  What she is doing, is how get yourself permanently silenced.  If you try to destroy someones life, theres a very real chance they may come kill you.  I'm not advocating violence either, I'm just saying, if you try to hurt someone, there is pretty good chance they are going to try and hurt you.

TERF'S are all like this to be honest.  Sites like Gawker and Jezebel are full of them.  So blind with hatred they cannot even see basic reason.

Quote from: suzifrommd on November 24, 2013, 11:56:44 AM
No, we should not be trying to silence her.

That's not what the petition is about.

It's not about silencing her, it's about calling out her rhetoric as hate, about producing a consensus that her dialog is not respectful or beneficial.

One can argue that it's not a good tactic. I'm sympathetic to the point posted here that we legitimize her by response. But would you agree that "silencing" someone, and contributing to the dialog by making our case for how damaging her words are, mean two different things?

But I don't see what good a petition is going to do. Her words are only damaging if you read them or let them bother you. She doesn't bother me because I don't let her words bother me. No petition is ever going to make this woman stop believing the way she does. Maybe if we actually tried to have open dialog with her and be respectful maybe we could stop all this silliness. We all seem to want to jump down this woman's throat without understanding what's she's been through in her life to make her believe the way she does.

Quote from: Sophia Hawke on November 24, 2013, 12:37:22 PM
I've got to be honest.  What she is doing, is how get yourself permanently silenced.  If you try to destroy someones life, theres a very real chance they may come kill you.  I'm not advocating violence either, I'm just saying, if you try to hurt someone, there is pretty good chance they are going to try and hurt you.

TERF'S are all like this to be honest.  Sites like Gawker and Jezebel are full of them.  So blind with hatred they cannot even see basic reason.

Um Jezebel has been supportive of trans women and gays yes it is a feminist site and it is one I read on a regular basis because I see myself as a feminist. ;)

Quote from: Sophia Hawke on November 24, 2013, 12:37:22 PM
I've got to be honest.  What she is doing, is how get yourself permanently silenced.  If you try to destroy someones life, theres a very real chance they may come kill you.  I'm not advocating violence either, I'm just saying, if you try to hurt someone, there is pretty good chance they are going to try and hurt you.

TERF'S are all like this to be honest.  Sites like Gawker and Jezebel are full of them.  So blind with hatred they cannot even see basic reason.

I don't think she is at risk, but she is certainly putting others in that situation when she outs someone with glee.  No one should be outed whether they are trans, gay or whatever.  That is something very personal that could have major repercussions on someone's life and can put some in dangerous situations.  Unfortunately, the victim of an outing is usually the only one at risk and not the outer.  Having said that, no one should be at risk for violence.  That is never the answer. 

There are many different sorts of feminists and many out there are supportive of us.  Feminism at it's core isn't the issue here. 

Quote from: Heather on November 24, 2013, 12:47:07 PM
But I don't see what good a petition is going to do. Her words are only damaging if you read them or let them bother you. She doesn't bother me because I don't let her words bother me. No petition is ever going to make this woman stop believing the way she does. Maybe if we actually tried to have open dialog with her and be respectful maybe we could stop all this silliness. We all seem to want to jump down this woman's throat without understanding what's she's been through in her life to make her believe the way she does.

If she is outing people, then she is actually damaging people.  I could care less for her views as it is her right, but if she is outing people, that is really going too far.  Leave individual people's lgbt status out it and then I say carry on.  Otherwise, she should really stop what she is doing.  Nothing justifies outing people and putting someone at risk like that and ignoring the site doesn't prevent that information from being published.  I don't know how much of the site is dedicated to that, but she should really be more considerate if she is truly doing that and calling her out for that seems reasonable.   

Quote from: Heather on November 24, 2013, 12:49:43 PM
Um Jezebel has been supportive of trans women and gays yes it is a feminist site and it is one I read on a regular basis because I see myself as a feminist. ;)

That hasnt been my experience with them, and im speaking more so about alot of the people that comment.  I'm not a feminist though.  At least not like some of the Jezebel writers.  I was a regular Kotaku reader until it became full of feminist overtones that simply werent needed.  And i found most of the commenters who were coming from jezebel to be our right man haters.  Now, dont get me wrong, admist crossing the gender barrier my view on males has changed significantly, and tbh not at all for the better.  Might be time to have a re-read over there.

Quote from: learningtolive on November 24, 2013, 01:04:18 PM
I don't think she is at risk, but she is certainly putting others in that situation when she outs someone with glee.  No one should be outed whether they are trans, gay or whatever.  That is something very personal that could have major repercussions on someone's life and can put some in dangerous situations.  Unfortunately, the victim of an outing is usually the only one at risk and not the outer.  Having said that, no one should be at risk for violence.  That is never the answer. 

There are many different sorts of feminists and many out there are supportive of us.  Feminism at it's core isn't the issue here. 

If she is outing people, then she is actually damaging people.  I could care less for her views as it is her right, but if she is outing people, that is really going too far.  Leave individual people's lgbt status out it and then I say carry on.  Otherwise, she should really stop what she is doing.  Nothing justifies outing people and putting someone at risk like that and ignoring the site doesn't prevent that information from being published.  I don't know how much of the site is dedicated to that, but she should really be more considerate if she is truly doing that and calling her out for that seems reasonable.

I can tell you, if some internet troll(which what she is), came and outted me(im already living pretty much fully out), and it destroyed my life, or caused harm to come to me, you can bet id be out for revenge.  I'm probably the least violent person i know too, but if you hurt me, that makes you a threat.

As I see it, the goal is not to silence her but to make it public knowledge that she is disseminating hatred and that she is not a reliable source.  The last thing anyone needs is Congress or the media accepting her as an 'expert' and thereby validating her views.  If Fox News or the like put the spotlight on her in a positive light, it would be good to have documentation online to give evidence to her bias.

Quote from: suzifrommd on November 23, 2013, 04:41:42 PM
I came across an open letter to the Southern Poverty Law Center claiming there is a website that deliberately outs transwomen, and asking them to investigate.

http://www.change.org/petitions/southern-poverty-law-center-monitor-gender-identity-watch-as-a-hate-group-2 (http://www.change.org/petitions/southern-poverty-law-center-monitor-gender-identity-watch-as-a-hate-group-2)

Does anyone know anything about this? Is this true?

Here is a link to the FBI; I thought about reporting them but I am going to live that honor to you Suzi.


As you see you can report them electronically

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/hate_crimes

Quote from: peky on November 24, 2013, 02:04:04 PM

Here is a link to the FBI; I thought about reporting them but I am going to live that honor to you Suzi.


As you see you can report them electronically

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/hate_crimes

As they should be.  Anyone who gets pleasure from hurting others is sick.

Quote from: Marissa on November 24, 2013, 01:25:47 PM
As I see it, the goal is not to silence her but to make it public knowledge that she is disseminating hatred and that she is not a reliable source.  The last thing anyone needs is Congress or the media accepting her as an 'expert' and thereby validating her views.  If Fox News or the like put the spotlight on her in a positive light, it would be good to have documentation online to give evidence to her bias.

Eh... something tells me you won't be seeing her on fox news.  She may not be a fan of the transgender community, but she is still a self proclaimed "radical feminist".  Last time I checked that isn't fox new's thing.  I would be hard pressed to think that her or that site will ever become mainstream.  Sure, you will get transphobic commentary in the mainstream cable media, but it's very unlikely to come from a feminist perspective.   

Quote from: learningtolive on November 24, 2013, 02:10:08 PM
Eh... something tells me you won't be seeing her on fox news.  She may not be a fan of the transgender community, but she is still a self proclaimed "radical feminist".  Last time I checked that isn't fox new's thing.  I would be hard pressed to think that her or that site will ever become mainstream.  Sure, you will get transphobic commentary in the mainstream cable media, but it's very unlikely to come from a feminist perspective.

Have a look at the mass effect 1 review on fox news. 

According to the letter and the site, she has been used a an expert in the past and expects to continue in that capacity. discrediting her expert status sounds like a good thing to me and having it listed on SPLC would help do that.

Quote from: Heather on November 24, 2013, 12:47:07 PM
We all seem to want to jump down this woman's throat without understanding what's she's been through in her life to make her believe the way she does.

Heather, I admire your compassion.

Quote from: suzifrommd on November 24, 2013, 06:21:16 PM
Heather, I admire your compassion.

I always try to see things from someone else's point of view. I may not agree with her but I try to see her side. I don't like arguing with people and I've always been more of a diplomat than a fighter. I think I read somewhere she was raped when she was younger and I truly feel for her if that was the case no woman should ever have that happen ever. Now I have no clue as to why she has this problem with trans people maybe she has some internal gender issues of her own she shouldn't do what she doing but I just believe attacking her will do no good and just draw attention to her cause she wouldn't get otherwise.

Quote from: peky on November 24, 2013, 02:04:04 PM

Here is a link to the FBI; I thought about reporting them but I am going to live that honor to you Suzi.


As you see you can report them electronically

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/hate_crimes

Really? You want to waste the FBI's time & resources filing a complaint about this miserable douche nozzle? ::) She is nothing more than a miserable person, who's life sucks so much that she has to take it out on somebody else. She doesn't sound terribly bright. You throw in one too many women's studies classes, and she declares war on the Trans community. Her profiling Trans people is not cool, but it doesn't rise to the occasion of ratting her out to the FBI. 

How about we request the powers to be in the LGBTQ leadership admonish her for profiling trans people(especially kids) and leave it at that. If ya really feel the need, contact that hacker group ANONYMOUS and ask them to hack her site. Have them change it so it reroutes to Susan's. ;D Or if you really want to get her goat, reroute her site to one of those trans porn sites! >:-)

Heather sweetie, she and her group have been much less than benign. They have systematically harassed transgender activists, bloggers, and writers. Please be grateful that you have not become a focus of her venom. One of my transgender heroes had all of her personal contact information shared on hate sites, then was harassed in person, in court, at work, online, with unimaginable vitriol and hate. She had her family and associates harassed and threatened, she had lawsuits filed to void her gender change and her birth certificate change. A brilliant, outgoing, compassion woman was driven to PTSD and withdrew from public (and social) life completely for a time because the pain was too great.

We are not talking about people with a difference of opinion. We are talking about people who call for the elimination of transgender women, and back it up with action, on the phone, online, and in person, who will hire attorneys to harass you, will write false articles, do interviews, get on tv, to try to destroy you personally. They will humiliate you publicly, and your family, and try to get you fired and isolated and ostracized, if you draw their ire.

Because you don't have a right to exist, and you absolutely don't have a right to call them out on their bigotry. That is their line, and they have been consistent about it for more than 15 years.

You'll notice that I didn't name any names in my post because I would prefer if their harassment didn't come my way today. I have enough on my plate, and so do the people I love.

Quote from: MadelineB on November 25, 2013, 02:57:21 AM
Heather sweetie, she and her group have been much less than benign. They have systematically harassed transgender activists, bloggers, and writers. Please be grateful that you have not become a focus of her venom. One of my transgender heroes had all of her personal contact information shared on hate sites, then was harassed in person, in court, at work, online, with unimaginable vitriol and hate. She had her family and associates harassed and threatened, she had lawsuits filed to void her gender change and her birth certificate change. A brilliant, outgoing, compassion woman was driven to PTSD and withdrew from public (and social) life completely for a time because the pain was too great.

We are not talking about people with a difference of opinion. We are talking about people who call for the elimination of transgender women, and back it up with action, on the phone, online, and in person, who will hire attorneys to harass you, will write false articles, do interviews, get on tv, to try to destroy you personally. They will humiliate you publicly, and your family, and try to get you fired and isolated and ostracized, if you draw their ire.

Because you don't have a right to exist, and you absolutely don't have a right to call them out on their bigotry. That is their line, and they have been consistent about it for more than 15 years.

You'll notice that I didn't name any names in my post because I would prefer if their harassment didn't come my way today. I have enough on my plate, and so do the people I love.

Madeline,

Has your friend or any of the others filed for a restraining order? If she is calling their work, families, ect, then she is essentially harassing her and she could file for a restraining order. The attacks to online Trans bloggers is hard to really do anything about.

It seems some political influence could be of help in this case. If we could get a petition going..... Send it to the feminist, women's, & LGBT groups and see if they can't pressure her to knock off the harassment. I just don't think calling the FBI tip line or the SPLC is going to get us anywhere.

Dani

Yes she did wherever she could. And she is doing ok now.

The problem with personal legal remedies being, when your chief harasser is an attorney and you aren't, and you don't have unlimited funds, they can bury you in legal punches and counter-punches.

Most of the worst harassment my friend got was anonymous hate that followed malicious but not illegal dissemination of her most private public details. For example, telling her followers to get out the word, where to show up for a hearing that is usually private but is technically open to the public, and what can be said or written that will cause someone the most damage there, with links to the public record that give a person's personal information. Many of the laws in California in place now to protect transgender rights happened precisely because this group's harassment to bloggers, writers, and activists proved that the old processes were cumbersome and made trans* people vulnerable to malicious shenanigans.

It is just really tough when you yourself are an activist, because the normal steps you take to protect yourself from harassment or stalking can cut you off from your ability for outreach, which is the biggest part of doing your work, and isolating you from others is the whole point of the harassment, that, and putting others in fear of speaking out and becoming a target themselves.

Best thing you can do is try to roll with the punches and make sure your emotional support network is very tight, and to keep building strong networks on the activism side so that our leaders don't stand alone. Especially huge is bringing in allies in the form of national organizations that do have the resources for battles like this and have been fighting the same kind of battles for years against other hate groups.

It is really important that this group is recognized for what it is, now that it is linking up with the PJI and the unlimited funds they are bringing to bear against protections for transgender people in California. Shutting up those who speak out can be a very effective strategy in the kind of dirty campaign being waged.

Hey Madeline,

Glad to hear your friend is doing better! I just glanced at the web site. She seemed to be the same as the right wing "nutter butters" who are constantly out to take away our rights, so I didn't read through the whole site. Regardless, there as to be something, we as a collective can do to stop the harassment. Free speech is all good, but her actions have crossed the line.  >:(

Cali seems to be a "solid" State for Trans folks. Would contacting the AG and filing a complaint be an option? If this woman is a lawyer, then what about the Cali Bar Association? Would her actions be in conflict with their rules/ethics? From what you have said, this woman is just a menace!  ::)

Quote from: DanicaCarin on November 25, 2013, 01:31:39 AM
Really? You want to waste the FBI's time & resources filing a complaint about this miserable douche nozzle? ::) She is nothing more than a miserable person, who's life sucks so much that she has to take it out on somebody else. She doesn't sound terribly bright. You throw in one too many women's studies classes, and she declares war on the Trans community. Her profiling Trans people is not cool, but it doesn't rise to the occasion of ratting her out to the FBI. 

How about we request the powers to be in the LGBTQ leadership admonish her for profiling trans people(especially kids) and leave it at that. If ya really feel the need, contact that hacker group ANONYMOUS and ask them to hack her site. Have them change it so it reroutes to Susan's. ;D Or if you really want to get her goat, reroute her site to one of those trans porn sites! >:-)

Here, ask your self does the activities of this group fits the bill below?

QuoteDoes the FBI investigate hate groups in the United States?

The FBI investigates domestic hate groups within guidelines established by the attorney general. Investigations are conducted only when a threat or advocacy of force is made; when the group has the apparent ability to carry out the proclaimed act; and when the act would constitute a potential violation of federal law.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/faqs

Quote from: suzifrommd on November 23, 2013, 04:41:42 PM
I came across an open letter to the Southern Poverty Law Center claiming there is a website that deliberately outs transwomen, and asking them to investigate.

http://www.change.org/petitions/southern-poverty-law-center-monitor-gender-identity-watch-as-a-hate-group-2 (http://www.change.org/petitions/southern-poverty-law-center-monitor-gender-identity-watch-as-a-hate-group-2)

Does anyone know anything about this? Is this true?

They can have my name.  I've been out and everyone including my employer knows.

I think many of the people in this thread don't seem to have followed some of the torturous abuse inflicted upon them by B*****n and many others of her ilk. Names being released are just the start of it, one of my personal inspirations in coming out has been falsely accused of being a paedophile for no other reason than that she's a trans woman. These people falsely accuse trans women of heinous crimes, and then sell them to the media as complete fact (don't believe me? Look up the PJI case and a girl I can only refer to as 'Jane Doe').

They completely abuse the privilege and power they have to further demonise a section of society that is constantly discredited and abused. This is not simply a case of 'ignoring them and they'll go away', because they will not go away. They are absolutely intent on making the lives of many trans men and women a misery, and they know full well what they're doing. This petition is not trying to get B*****n and her ilk to shut up, it's about bringing the attention of a hate group to a powerful law firm that has had notable victories over hate groups and defamation in the past. I'd much rather have their support than have the fear of a group of hate-mongers levelling false accusations at me or any other trans person.

Cathy Brennan is one of my local peeps.  She has been known to try and bug me via Facebook or email in the past, but she actually is relatively nice to me for some reason.  She does not misgender me the way she does most transwomen.   She also is not abusive toward me the way she is to others.

I've come to see Cathy as someone who is very wounded.  I think that Heather is right about that.  Like many wounded people, she lashes out at perceived threats even when those threats aren't real.  And it can be very hard for such a person to let go.  I feel sorry for her.  In fact, I suspect that the reason she is nicer to me than to others might be because of a very public stand I took last year to put a stop to some threats on violence that had been made against someone in another LGBT group.  Either that or someone told her I'm a biological female who retransitioned and therefore I'm somewhat outside of her target zone.

Quote from: MadelineB on November 25, 2013, 09:52:30 AM
The problem with personal legal remedies being, when your chief harasser is an attorney and you aren't, and you don't have unlimited funds, they can bury you in legal punches and counter-punches.

This could be a third theory.  I'm a lawyer too and probably a better credentialed one than her.  Maybe she just recognizes that I'm not as easy a target for bullying.  No idea.  But if that's it, someone needs to let her know that I'm also willing to represent trans* people and protect them.  Maybe then she'd back off a little.  But at the end of the day, I think she needs help more than she needs punishment.  Not much can be done until she gets that help.

Quote from: ThePhoenix on December 15, 2013, 12:07:03 AM
I've come to see Cathy as someone who is very wounded.  I think that Heather is right about that.  Like many wounded people, she lashes out at perceived threats even when those threats aren't real.  And it can be very hard for such a person to let go.  I feel sorry for her. 

Well, seeing as I only know of this woman from threads like this here on the forum, we have different perspectives about this. Going on what I see her do in regards to her website, I think she is the scum of the earth. I don't care how "wounded" someone is (go cry me a river, will ya?) it gives them no right whatsoever to do what she does. What she does is dangerous to the people she is outing. Do you think she would care if someone she outed ended up in the hospital or morgue due to her actions?

I doubt it.

In no way am I justifying Cathy Brennan's actions.  I think they are as reprehensible as anyone else does.  But sometimes it does help to understand where someone is coming from, even a person who is doing bad things.  For example, in my case, understanding her better allows me to deal with her without nearly as much unpleasantness and trouble as many other local activists and community organizers have had.  It spares me a certain amount of aggravation.  I hope that as events unfold, it will also be helpful in rebutting and advocating against her.  And, of course, if we ever hope to change a person's behavior, it really helps to be able to understand them.

I don't believe that trying to understand people is a sign of weakness or of accomodation.  It's actually very important to know your enemies if you are going to cross swords with them.  As Sun Tzu says, "if you know your enemies, and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles."

It is by knowing her that I am equipping myself to defeat her.  She's in my home state.  So if I hope to get certain things done around here (i.e. gender identity legislation) then I have to be ready to cross swords with her. Because, alas, it will happen.

[edited to fix a typo]

Again, Ms Brennan's writings are not allowed on this site, so I hope no one fetches any of her work. Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on November 23, 2013, 09:19:32 PM
The website exits and is operated by that loathsome Cathy "Bug" Brennan.  She recently outed the teen transgirl who was involved the PJI smear campaign.

See below:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-6xvqQarVNWk%2FUBgAdrA-tTI%2FAAAAAAAAYU8%2FcJ3L2uwSYHI%2Fs1600%2F12Cathy%2Bbrennan%2Bhatin.jpg&hash=b90e1bfb6638267310e80f973d63110e7f531b47)

Haters gonna hate.

Amazing! She looks like the average ex hetero/lesbian TS herself!

Quote from: Heather on November 23, 2013, 11:46:29 PM

If you want [Cathy Brennan] to stop attacking us maybe we should just let her be instead of attacking her. I'd fight back too if I had a bunch of people telling me how to think.

Like speaking out against people like Cathy Brennan?

The thing is people like Cathy Brennan cause harm. It is as simple as that, she does what she can to harm People from a community that isn't doing her any harm. Isn't evil doing harm without cause to do harm? I think if there could be a concerted effort to discredit this person from being a lgbt "expert" because her role in this position only causes further harm and the best nonviolent way to deal with harmful people is to limit their ability to influence the situation.

Honestly I just cannot understand someone with such hate in thier heart.

Transmisogyny=misogyny.  Way to shoot yourself in the foot.

Quote from: learningtolive on November 24, 2013, 12:36:22 PM
I read her site and was confused.  How is it that all of us are MRA's or homophobic because we are trans?  I have nothing against gays or lesbians and don't begrudge anyone who would not date someone who is trans nor would I want to date a lesbian because that isn't my preference. ...

She's saying regardless of our trans status, we're still men, and any amount of medical intervention (HRT, SRS, FFS, etc.) isn't going to change that. Since she views post op trans women as men, she's on a mission to make sure trans women aren't able to escape their history. I didn't read her legislation desires, but I suspect it has to do with preventing trans women from completely changing their identities in order to keep them out of 'protected' female spaces (restrooms, locker rooms, etc.).

She's a radical feminist and many do hate all men, many believe any sex is rape, they're predators after all. Their position on this isn't surprising. There will be natural conflict between the L and the T in LGBT.

Quote from: JS on February 02, 2014, 02:58:53 PM
Like speaking out against people like Cathy Brennan?

Well have you read some of the things being said about her? (not just this site) Every argument needs two sides and putting her down for how she looks and other negative comments about her I've seen isn't speaking out that's just furthering the argument. I would like to understand her point of view more and why she believes the way she does than call her names and put down how she looks or dresses. But I consider myself a feminist and I find it offensive that we would put her down for how she looks or dresses no matter what views she has. We need to be above such behavior. ;)   

Quote from: Heather on February 02, 2014, 07:55:10 PM
We need to be above such behavior. ;)

That won't make a bit of difference. She sucks. She's a loser. She's pathetic and that is all there is to it. It's no different than someone who runs a site that is homophobic, racist, etc. Anyone under that umbrella sucks.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on February 02, 2014, 08:03:57 PM
That won't make a bit of difference. She sucks. She's a loser. She's pathetic and that is all there is to it. It's no different than someone who runs a site that is homophobic, racist, etc. Anyone under that umbrella sucks.

Wow I swear some people just love to argue.  ::)

Quote from: Heather on February 02, 2014, 07:55:10 PM
Well have you read some of the things being said about her? (not just this site) Every argument needs two sides and putting her down for how she looks and other negative comments about her I've seen isn't speaking out that's just furthering the argument. I would like to understand her point of view more and why she believes the way she does than call her names and put down how she looks or dresses. But I consider myself a feminist and I find it offensive that we would put her down for how she looks or dresses no matter what views she has. We need to be above such behavior. ;)

That's my point: people are free to say what they like, including Brennan and the people she targets with her bigotry.

Quote from: Heather on February 02, 2014, 07:55:10 PM
Well have you read some of the things being said about her? (not just this site) Every argument needs two sides and putting her down for how she looks and other negative comments about her I've seen isn't speaking out that's just furthering the argument. I would like to understand her point of view more and why she believes the way she does than call her names and put down how she looks or dresses. But I consider myself a feminist and I find it offensive that we would put her down for how she looks or dresses no matter what views she has. We need to be above such behavior. ;)

I went to her site and found some areas of agreement. She has a valid concern of allowing transsexuals in female restrooms and locker rooms. There WILL be non-transsexuals who will take advantage of this for their own devious desires. She posted many articles of these very cases. I don't feel she's implying transsexuals and these criminal deviants are one in the same. She speaks repeatedly of 'clouding' the gender definitions and its implications for women. She's a feminist, that's what she does (speaks out for women's issues). It's a legitimate concern and I have no doubt these deviant acts will increase if not addressed somehow. Pretending this isn't an issue won't go away.

She believes in information, that depriving women access to this information is wrong. Given the frequency of sexual assault against women, they have every right to know who is in their private spaces. I don't feel that makes her a hater.

Quote from: Heather on February 02, 2014, 08:06:44 PM
Wow I swear some people just love to argue.  ::)

No. You've got me all wrong. I am not arguing with you. I am saying what I feel about the individual in question. Do you think that person would give a damn if they outed YOU?

Don't think so.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on February 02, 2014, 09:14:23 PM
No. You've got me all wrong. I am not arguing with you. I am saying what I feel about the individual in question. Do you think that person would give a damn if they outed YOU?

Don't think so.

Lol outing me would be kinda pointless I'm not really hiding it.  :laugh:

Nor am I. But you're missing the point. What this person is doing is wrong and they suck. Any excuses they can give for why they do what they do are absurd and pathetic. They deserve nothing but scorn and contempt. I get sick of seeing the attitude that it is okay to give a pass to people that hate us.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on February 02, 2014, 09:29:45 PM
Nor am I. But you're missing the point. What this person is doing is wrong and they suck. Any excuses they can give for why they do what they do are absurd and pathetic. They deserve nothing but scorn and contempt. I get sick of seeing the attitude that it is okay to give a pass to people that hate us.

So by calling her names what are you accomplishing? It's not about giving a pass it's about opening a dialog with someone instead of getting involved in pointless childish name calling. 

Quote from: Heather on February 02, 2014, 09:37:12 PM
So by calling her names what are you accomplishing? It's not about giving a pass it's about opening a dialog with someone instead of getting involved in pointless childish name calling.

I didn't call anyone names.

You know what? Do what you want.

You want to think that people like this are okay? Knock yourself out.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on February 02, 2014, 09:39:42 PM
I didn't call anyone names.

You know what? Do what you want.

You want to think that people like this are okay? Knock yourself out.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on February 02, 2014, 08:03:57 PM
That won't make a bit of difference. She sucks. She's a loser. She's pathetic and that is all there is to it. It's no different than someone who runs a site that is homophobic, racist, etc. Anyone under that umbrella sucks.

I could be wrong but that sure looks like name calling. Did I say she was okay? I just saying two wrongs don't make a right. And if you want respect you must be willing to give it too. ;)

Quote from: Heather on February 02, 2014, 10:01:15 PM
I could be wrong but that sure looks like name calling. Did I say she was okay? I just saying two wrongs don't make a right. And if you want respect you must be willing to give it too. ;)

Go on and coddle those that hate you. It's your choice to make. I don't care. But don't expect me to do the same.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on February 02, 2014, 10:06:19 PM
Go on and coddle those that hate you. It's your choice to make. I don't care. But don't expect me to do the same.

If somebody hates me that's they're problem not mine. But you must realize I am a feminist and while I may totally disagree with with her point of view I still respect that she cares for women's rights and is willing to fight for them because I am a woman too! 

Quote from: missadventure on February 02, 2014, 10:20:40 PM
It's not about her kicking in brains. The quote from Rev. Martin Niemöller is still very valid, even without the threat of death by Nazis. Nazism began as a fringe group with an ideological distrust of other fringe groups. Although I am unsure of it, I suspect Hitler himself never killed a Jew. His rhetoric got other people to do it for him.

Now, I'm not saying this woman will rise up to lead the 4th Reich. But, what she's spouting is rhetoric, and rhetoric in any form is dangerous, because people sadly find ways to identify with it and act upon it rather than form original educated opinions for themselves. No matter where you go in the world you'll find plenty of sheeple ready to line up for a cause. The goal should be to diminish her cause in favor of causes that are more progressive and actually move humanity forward.

Well freedom of speech wasn't created for popular speech it was created for speech such as hers. I'm a believer in the right to free speech even I don't agree with what she is saying I still believe in her right to say it!

Quote from: missadventure on February 02, 2014, 10:20:40 PM
It's not about her kicking in brains. The quote from Rev. Martin Niemöller is still very valid, even without the threat of death by Nazis. Nazism began as a fringe group with an ideological distrust of other fringe groups. Although I am unsure of it, I suspect Hitler himself never killed a Jew. His rhetoric got other people to do it for him.

Now, I'm not saying this woman will rise up to lead the 4th Reich. But, what she's spouting is rhetoric, and rhetoric in any form is dangerous, because people sadly find ways to identify with it and act upon it rather than form original educated opinions for themselves. No matter where you go in the world you'll find plenty of sheeple ready to line up for a cause. The goal should be to diminish her cause in favor of causes that are more progressive and actually move humanity forward.

Stop it for Pete's sake.

Adolf Hitler killed millions of Jews, not with rhetoric but with orders because he was a dictator and ruled with absolute cruelty.

This feminist activist is a private citizen who is exercising her free speech rights, she's not advocating any violence whatsoever, she's doing what feminists do, she's promoting women's rights.

That's a fact. Do I like everything she says? No. But to argue this way against Heather is outrageous. She's made it clear she's not agreeing with her.

You know, I've now shown up on two of Cathy Brennan's anti-trans hate websites.  But it is interesting how when she posts something about something I said or did or wrote, she treats me differently from most people.  She does not misgender me. She does not disrespect me or be rude to me in any way.  Not in personal communications to me.  And not even when I'm on her anti-trans* sites.  I expect to make it again this coming week when an opinion piece I wrote will be published.  She is usually kind enough to share my writings with a wider audience.  If past is prologue, then I will be described something like "(my name), a lawyer who has her own private practice."

I can only assume that she treats me differently because: (1) she has heard and believes that rumor about me being a retransitioner who was born biologically female and is going back or (2) she respects me at least a little bit, perhaps because I am nicer to hear than most.  I'm betting on #2. 

Many of us learned while growing up that becoming belligerent and fighting things was a way to deal with them.  But sometimes that doesn't work very well.  I find Cathy Brennan to be a case in point.  I refuse to argue, debate, or otherwise get into a tussle with her.  As a result, she has nothing to react to and nothing to push back against.  And her anger and her own wounds need something to push back again.  She does this out of her own wounds.  Just leave her alone and she would probably fade away.  Sometimes the best way to fight truly is by not fighting.

Quote from: Nikko on February 02, 2014, 10:30:02 PM
That's a fact. Do I like everything she says? No. But to argue this way against Heather is outrageous. She's made it clear she's not agreeing with her.

Thank you for pointing this out.  I agree 110%.  We have enough enemies.  No need to add ourselves to the list.

Quote from: missadventure on February 02, 2014, 10:20:40 PM
Now, I'm not saying this woman will rise up to lead the 4th Reich. But, what she's spouting is rhetoric, and rhetoric in any form is dangerous, because people sadly find ways to identify with it and act upon it rather than form original educated opinions for themselves. No matter where you go in the world you'll find plenty of sheeple ready to line up for a cause. The goal should be to diminish her cause in favor of causes that are more progressive and actually move humanity forward.

I do a lot of spouting rhetoric too.  In my case, I spout a lot about the need for all trans* people to stand together, to stop tearing one another down, and to look after one another.  It does move people to action, or so I'm told.  But I think it is not dangerous.  Unless, of course, you are one of the individuals who benefit from discord and conflict. 

Rhetoric can be used for good or for ill.  Cathy Brennan chooses to use hers to target some vulnerable people.  I choose to use mine to try and make them less vulnerable.  But it's all rhetoric. 

Quote from: Nikko on February 02, 2014, 10:30:02 PM
Stop it for Pete's sake.

Adolf Hitler killed millions of Jews, not with rhetoric but with orders because he was a dictator and ruled with absolute cruelty.

This feminist activist is a private citizen who is exercising her free speech rights, she's not advocating any violence whatsoever, she's doing what feminists do, she's promoting women's rights.

That's a fact. Do I like everything she says? No. But to argue this way against Heather is outrageous. She's made it clear she's not agreeing with her.

Thank you Nikko! I really didn't expect what I said to cause such controversy. I just don't see the point in all the the name calling and this situation will keep going as long as there is name calling being thrown back in forth.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.gawkerassets.com%2Fimg%2F18ixhcr5g3522jpg%2Fk-bigpic.jpg&hash=21257910365aa234925e992714a0eb8e12cb81fd)

Quote from: Nikko on February 02, 2014, 10:30:02 PM
Stop it for Pete's sake.

Adolf Hitler killed millions of Jews, not with rhetoric but with orders because he was a dictator and ruled with absolute cruelty.

Actually, that's not quite true. Hitler was politically shrewd and did use rhetoric to eventually become leader. Sure, he was a violent, ruthless monster, but he couldn't act that way immediately (or openly). You don't just dictate to the population of a country like Germany and expect them to follow you. No, Hitler had a bit of luck with the timing -- a social and economic period ripe for the ideals of the National Socialist party -- and he had a great marketing department that created a mythology around Hitler's rise to power. My point being, that dictators don't generally appear out of nowhere (unless you're talking ruling family dynasties), they are allowed to grow and develop incrementally. What's that common maxim that people like to repeat on these boards? "Every journey begins with a first step".

I really can't see that continuing this thread will achieve anything.

I'm locking it.

Cindy