Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hey guys.  I thought we could use a thread where all recovery updates could be recorded in one place.  This can be for recent surgery updates (Day 1), all the way through years later as to how one is progressing.  People can update over and over again as time goes on.  Be sure to tell us what you are using for scar treatment, if anything.  Feel free to post pictures (I still need to look into doing this).

I will start:

11 week update


Things continue to go well. I changed from Scar Away strips to using the Scar Away gel. The strips were cumbersome and the academic studies I found on the subject said that the strips and gel had the same outcomes.

I have read good stuff about Bio Oil (anecdotal evidence), so I use some of that, too. Massage is very good for scars.

So, my routine is to apply Scar Away in the morning after my shower. When I get home from work, I rub in the Bio Oil. Before bed, I apply Scar Away again. I like to always have the incision line "moist", as that is part of what is supposed to heal the scars.

My scars are definitely less read, however, I have not been consistent with taking weekly pics under the same lighting conditions, so it is hard to say from pictures. However, I am confident they have.  They probably did not show any significant change until 6 weeks of consistent scar therapy.  You are supposed to only use this stuff for 3 months, but I am guessing I will be using it for a year. Based on this brief period of use, I would say that it will cost me about $35-40 per month for scar treatments, if I continue with the same level of diligence. I believe that this investment will be worth it.

I can also say that my scars are pretty much flat.  I think this significant at this stage of healing, and would be due to the silicone gel, as well. I believe my using the gel as soon as possible after surgery, kept the scars from becoming as raised as they would have become without treatment (not to say that they weren't raised when I started the treatment, however).

I have been pleased so far that my scars have not stretched. I still do not lift my arms up completely above my head. I feel a pulling if I do this. I hope that I am not just delaying stretching of scars, but rather assisting them in healing to the point where they will not stretch once I use my arms more. I am also not strength training for the same reason (even though I want nothing more than to build up my pecs!).

The sides where the drains came out has settled down a great deal (they were puffy). However, there is still a small area of skin on each side that are puffy and slightly sore if pressed. These are not dog ears. With tubes coming straight out from your sides, only to be flattened with a very tight ace bandage for 6 days, your skin is being pulled/lifted away from your body. I am hopeful that it will eventually become completely flat. My motivation for using the Bio Oil is mainly to massage this area.

The nipples have healed nicely with no difficulties. You can still see where the nipple was attached to the skin through stitch, however.  It is hard to explain, but picture little pieces of your red areola pulled away from the nipple, and stitched onto the white/black/brown skin surrounding the nipple of your chest.  I don't know if this is what all free nipple grafts look like, or not.  I hope they fade (I am pale Caucasian).

I did have one "spit suture" along the incision line. This is where the body pushes out one of the stitches. You just have to wait for it to fill in from the inside (skin growing). It has been a 5-6 weeks for me and is finally filling in (via phone through emailed pics,, Garramone said it would only take a couple of weeks). I am very glad that I only had one (well there was one other very small one), of these. Even though there are hundreds of stitches, I was concerned about how slow it was to "fill in", plus the hole itself was getting a bit larger. Additionally, the spot on the incision line where the suture came out of, is a bit wider that the than the rest of the incision line. More "spitting sutures", would have meant more widening.

I will do more updates in the future.  I hope people will come in and post.

ETA: Added 3 month (12 week) picture below.  It would be GREAT if when people posted an update, they included a picture (taken the same day as the update).  Please note, I am not on T.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi769.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx338%2Fclearle%2Fget-attachment_zps0d978902.jpg&hash=e58698645384fafc1f625d499aabd096eed2e968) (http://s769.photobucket.com/user/clearle/media/get-attachment_zps0d978902.jpg.html)

Good idea for a thread, I shall start using this instead of my other one.

I haven't been given any info about scar treatment, though I do have bio oil laying around anyway from other scars (it didn't work on them, but I'm gonna try it anyway) - when should I start doing that?

It seems like we have complete opposite attitudes to surgery recovery - you sound like you want the cosmetic results to be as good as possible. I on the other hand do not give a monkeys what it looks like, so there will be no super diligence on my end and I will be lifting and stretching ASAP xD

18th day update  :P

Over the last few days I have completely abandoned the compression tube, I have patches over my nipples to stop them rubbing on stuff...they are still really dark and just basically look like big scabs. I'm assuming that's normal at this stage.

I cannot for the life of me get the sticky crap off from where the honeycomb bandage was. No amount of scrubbing is shifting it >:(

I've ran out of pain meds, but it's not too bad now. The whole area aches when I first stand up, but then settles down once I start to move around. I have a pulling feeling in a very specific area, on the inner edge of one of the incisions, it's feels like someone is gently pulling on it and it's really strange.

On one side in particular my skin is....puckered? ruffled? pleated? xD I don't know if I've caused that by sleeping on my side, not wearing the binder and generally ignoring the advice I was given or if it's just because my skin was so stretched out and saggy to start with.

I had top surgery with Dr Bowman in Vancouver, Canada on Dec 17th.

11th day update:

I'm amazed with the scarring.  It's so pink and fine already!  I'm really hoping for good results here.  No redness at all, just a very, light pink.  I have Gilbert's Syndrome (recently diagnosed) so I haven't taken any pictures because I don't want people getting a hold of my pictures and attributing it to the surgeon.  My left side isn't so bad now but my right side is still quite swollen and my chest is yellow.  I got jaundiced after the surgery and didn't cope well with the blood loss (because of the Gilbert's Syndrome).  My right side got the worst of it so the bruising is bad.  I don't see if affecting the results too badly but I think it's affecting me psychologically because I keep expecting pain that doesn't come just because it looks sore!  Lol.

My left side - I can raise my arm to about 3/4 range.  Right side only 1/2 with it only slightly above shoulder line before I feel pulling. The worst part for me is actually under the scar on the right side where the worst of the bruising is.  It feels tight and it's annoying but it's getting better day by day.

My nipples are looking amazing.  There's still some scabbing and bleeding associated with that but once the scabbing is over and done with I anticipate good results.  There's no stretching there and I can barely see where the stitches were now.  I keep them covered with gauze and tape to try to prevent more bleeding so the scabs can form and fall at their own rate.

The top right scar has a more open part to the scar, likely because of the swelling and that could well affect scarring, but not worrying too much about that too be honest.  I'm not going to be going top half naked too much anyway as I don't actually swim!  I CAN swim but because of bad ears I'm not allowed to get my ears wet so swimming is a rarity.  Otherwise the more top half naked I'll likely get is what you can see while wearing a dobok that can get pulled open a bit during sparring and that's it.

My scars aren't like Dr. G's.  They follow the pec line more so they go across and then up the way around the pecs.  Once the swelling goes down I'll be able to see what I'm working with pec wise and then when I'm allowed, hit the gym to improve that!  Lol.

I have a compression vest that I'm going to keep wearing for 6 weeks but I'm used to it now and it's not as bad as a binder.

So far so good!

I'm going to start scar guard soon, there's a couple of areas I want to close up a little better before I touch them with scar guard.  As for when you use scar therapy: as soon as the wound is closed.  Don't use it on open wound!  Watch what you get too.  Something that says it works on stretch marks as well as new scars is a BS product.  Scar therapy should be specific to age of scar.  What will work on a new scar won't work on an old keloid scar for example.  Bio oil isn't the best IMO.  It's better for stretch marks and fine lines like that.  The mechanisms of how they say it works are a bit weird too.  It's more vitamin based but the skin is a barrier for that so really all it's doing is keeping the scar hydrated, which is good for the scar, but I don't see it doing much for the actual healing asides from that.  I used it for about 2 months on a surgery scar on my back years ago and it did nothing, but it did admittedly help with stretch marks. A silicone based gel has much better documented results and targeted specifically to new surgical scars and recommended by plastic surgeons.  It wasn't available for a long time because the application wasn't so great and you had to keep applying it all day but it's been improved since.  It does rely on you being quite vigilant with it though.  So 3-4 times a day would be optimum but at least twice.

Jeatyn, I suggest you put on the binder, sleep on your back and follow the advice!  If you're noticing issues now, follow the advice now before it gets worse :-/.  As you are healing your skin will conform to how it is post surgery.  If you're sleeping on one side and pulling on that.  You'll be affecting the healing process because your skin will think this is the normal way it should be and the scar will heal with that stretched skin idea rather than how it should be.  That's why compression post surgery is important too.  It helps the scar form in the optimum way where everything is kept together and in a tight fashion and not pulled by uncompressed sleeping on your side which could lead to puckering as the scar doesn't know where the norm is meant to be, and a potentially wider, stretched scar rather than fine. 

Another update, which actually happened about an hour after I posted the last one

One of my nipple scabs fell off (well it fell half off and I pulled it off the rest of the way, no way I was having that flapping around and catching on stuff) I'm surprised at how much nicer it looks, I thought the black mess was my actual nipple, not just a scab, which freaked me out at first because I thought my nipple was falling off :P

I'm now wearing the compression tube again, because I don't have any more patches to put over my nipples, they're not sore or anything but still make me nervous

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m528/Jeatyn/WP_001139_zps3302f90c.jpg

You can see the puckering and the dog ear on the left....my right.

I managed to get quite a lot of the sticky crap off, with a baby wipe ::) scrubbing the hell out of it hasn't been working but apparently a gentle wipe is effective.

Hey, Jeatyn.  I am glad to hear that you are going back to the compression tube.  I will choose good long term outcome with short term discomfort/inconvenience over short term convenience every time! 

I also worry when I hear guys say they don't care that much about long term outcome because they will never show their chest (so they don't take care in recovery), or they don't concern themselves with surgeon choice based on outcome.  This seems to often be guys in their earlfy 20's.  They are more concerned in just being "flat as soon as possible", instead of waiting for a bit (if the issue is about getting it done between semesters instead of waiting for the end of the school year, not wanting to wait the 4 months until a friend can travel with them for a surgeon they would actually prefer, etc).  You may find that down the road you do care, and would have made a different choice (s) if you thought ahead.  I do understand how chest dysphoria is an emotionally painful thing, though and the need to get it done as soon as possible.

I am not speaking to you specifically Jeatlyn, this is something I have thought to say many times, just haven't before.

/speech from an old 43 year old to the younger guys...ha!

Jack, I get where you are coming from when you say that Bio Oil won't make a difference in scars.  I am using it for two reasons... to keep the area moist (which as you said, has been proven to help with scar improvement) and as a way to have a slick surface for massage (massage has also been proved to help with scar reduction).

I started with Scar Guard but moved to Scar Away gel because the dried silicone would flake off. 

I'm not sure what you mean when you say that Garramone's incision lines do not curve up around the pecs.  Mine certainly do this.  I have a slight curve from beginning to end (all the way up around the sides, into arm pits).  When I flex, the incision lines curve around the pecs beautifully.

Something else to mention to you Jack is that I had no bruising and very little swelling (swelling was really only where the drains had be taped down).  Although I hear you saying that you have other medical issues that effects your bruising/swelling, perhaps you may want to use Arnica (bruising) and Tumeric/Curcumin and Bromelain (inflammation/swelling), if you aren't already taking these/other supplements for healing.

Carry on, Recoverers (not a word, but I like it)!

Brett, don't get me wrong bro, I'm defo doing absolutely everything to ensure the best results possible. I just know that for me personally, as a non swimmer, there's less overall concern for me if things don't end up perfect but I'm also stealth and so even just the accidental pulling my dobok open in a sparring match requires passibility. The only time I'm not wearing the compression vest is when it's in the wash and I didn't wash it for a week (ewww I know! Lol)

The only form of arnica that's actually active is in topical form and with the same problem as bio oil, the skin is a natural barrier so it's not really going to do anything with regards to established bruising. Same goes for any drugs really. Once you have an established bruise, it's only heat and time that'll get rid of the sucker. It's only when it's actually in the process of swelling or bruising that any of that helps in diminishing it. I've been using heat packs and it's definitely going down. There's no swelling on the left side, that was more just bruising and yellow all over. The swelling was exclusive to the right and now it's just that hard bruise you can do nothing but use heat packs on and wait to disappate. It's like someone kicked me really hard in the chest and I'm wearing the result of that for a while. :P

It's hard to explain what I mean with scars, they just don't go out towards the sides at all and curve up sooner. From the armpit level, I'm maybe 3 to 4 finger widths before getting to scar (so more front of chest than side and from what I've seen of pics much higher) and then the scar goes down at around a 30 degree angle before flattening out.  Once the bruising is gone I'll take a picture that may make more sense.

7 weeks post-op (Dr G's clone heehee): I'm over 40, just say. Way over 40.

I have a little swelling under my arms esp on the left side (I am right handed so wondering if this is a bit of overcompensation on my part?).
I started with scar sheets went to ScarGuar (as I was getting curling from scar sheets, but hate the SG too-- mostly the nasty nasty smell). I have found something else, which is also silicone based. (BTW, research only supports the use of silicone products. If you want to use other stuff it's up to you, but there isn't research out there that proves it's better than time, which of course does work to some extent too.)

Yes Dr G's clones' scar lines do curve, though I can't say much re: where the heck my pec line is, if I even have one. LOL

Anyway the scar has faded and is pinkish. The nipples seem a little hard or whatever can pin down. I am going to put a picture up here or two when I have a chance.

Watching Brett with interest here because I know he and I will look identical. :)

--Jay

Hey, Jack, I was for certain not referring to you (there were one or two other posters in other threads in the past that fueled my thinking).  You seem to know yourself well and clearly are making smart, careful decisions with your recovery.

Interesting information about the inability for any "medication" to help with a bruise that is already established.  Makes sense.

Jay, you crack me up!

I've stated on multiple occasions that I'm not really fussed about the cosmetic results. Hell, I was more than willing to lose my nipples completely if it meant I would be less likely to need a two step procedure, my surgeon was desperately trying to sell me on how much better my nipples would be with the two step, how the sensation would be maintained and blah blah....I was like, that's great and all, but I really don't care. I have no sensation to start with. Going through all of this, recovering, and then being left with say, B cups, and still having to bind would have been a huge blow. My surgeon seems to have listened to me on this regard - either that or I was just lucky - my nipples are still completely in tact yet I'm also pretty much flat. The second procedure is supposed to involve shaving down the length of my nipples, correcting any dodgy bits (dogears, etc) and liposuction to contour and flatten. I highly doubt I will be going in for a revision, certainly not anywhere in the near future. If the surgeon is willing to put it on hold for a couple of years then maybe - but definitely not in 6 months.

I am 500% happy with the results I have, regardless of the puckering and puffy bits; and my nipple length seems fine. I was a very saggy E cup, I was not expecting miracles, it already looks so much better than I pictured. (6 years of double binding and breastfeeding does that to ya :P) The vast majority of the messed up stretch mark ravaged skin has gone, you can still see some of the bigger ones in the photos. My skin was so stretched out there was literally at least a centimeter between each of my pores - I could see them all individually. The rest of my body is pretty much the same - a big web of various scars and stretchmarks. Even if my chest turned out absolutely perfect the rest of me would still be a mess :P hence why I don't care as much. I will absolutely be working on my body shape, getting rid of all the fat and building up some muscle - once I'm happy with the shape I will be covering myself in tattoos :D nobody is going to notice my scars, stretchmarks or puckering when I'm done.

I mentioned in my other thread that my partner quit his job to help me out - I can't even fathom how I would have coped if he hadn't done that. If I didn't have a 3 year old to take care of it would have been more feasible. I'm sure I would have figured it all out somehow, but I'm glad I didn't have to :P our savings won't last forever though so he needs to be getting back into work, if we had to do this all over again in 6 months we'd be in some serious debt. I also have uni to think about and I run a business, the less downtime the better.

I have classes starting, presentation deadlines and client meetings coming up in the next week - I don't really feel like I'm going to be anywhere near ready :-\ carrying a backpack with a laptop and various books seems like an impossible task and I still get pretty tired and achy just pottering around doing housework.

Jeatlyn, I think that your chest looks great.  I never would have wanted to do a two step, either.  You mentioned puckering and puffiness, this should go down.  I still have some puckering, Garramone said it would go down, I hope it will.  If it doesn't I am ok with that, as well.  I am already beyond pleased.

I am glad that your partner was there to help you.  Managing a three year old would have been crazy on your own.

In terms of school, how about getting one of those packs that you can wheel behind you, rather than a backpack?    I don't know the cost on those, but maybe you can find a cheap one?  A backpack certainly wouldn't be good for you.

3 months post-op

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi769.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx338%2Fclearle%2Fget-attachment_zps0d978902.jpg&hash=e58698645384fafc1f625d499aabd096eed2e968) (http://s769.photobucket.com/user/clearle/media/get-attachment_zps0d978902.jpg.html)

Looking good Brett :)

I wonder if this could be stickied to give people an idea what their surgery might be like and so that people can share their updates?

Quote from: lxndr on January 01, 2014, 12:52:43 PM
Looking good Brett :)

I wonder if this could be stickied to give people an idea what their surgery might be like and so that people can share their updates?

Thanks, lxndr!  The only bummer has been watching my pecs deflate more and more due to lack of any use (along with my biceps...but they wouldn't have been that noticeable in this picture, anyway, as I am not on T... my biceps only had some definition when flexed). 

In terms of a sticky, I can see how that would be a good thing.  Especially if we always put pictures along with our updates.  I will leave it up to the mods if they want to make this a sticky or not.  I was thinking it would be good if people put pictures here, along with their written update.  I forgot to mention that in the opening post, however, and didn't even do it myself!

ETA:  Since we can modify our posts here, I just added a picture to my opening post.  Jay (I know at some point you will come back to this thread  ;)), how about modifying your post to include a picture from today (unless you have one from that day/very close to the day of the posting).  Jeatlyn, I am glad to see you have one up to go along with your update.  How about it Jack (I understand you were hesitant because you are concerned people will connect your bruises - from the Gilbert's Syndrome- with your surgeon...so maybe at your next update)?

3 Week Update

Feeling absolutely great these past few days. I think I might be ready to go back to uni next week after all. Few things worry me - I have a two hour commute morning and evening during rush hours. I always end up having to sit upstairs on my second bus, either that, or I have to stand. I don't feel like I could manage this for a whole hour. If I could sit downstairs, great! But the pulling on my chest holding onto a bus rail or getting up and down the stairs on a moving bus will be horrible. At rush hours the drivers WILL take off at full speed the second the doors are shut; and will drive past stops if you aren't standing up and waiting right by the door. I'm not even taking into account carrying a bag at this point, teachers will just have to understand that books and laptop aint happening.

My other nipple scab fell off, everything looked great so I had a bath. All the sticky crap is now gone and I feel properly clean for the first time in 3 weeks :P getting in and out of it wasn't too bad either, I had to sort of shimmy onto my knees and use my legs to get up - which is no easy feat in a bath xD but I managed it.

I'm using E45 cream to massage the area. I have loads of it lying around and is recommended in my little post-op pamphlet :P I probably won't invest in any other sort of scar treatment purely because I don't have the money to spare.

I appear to have dog ears on both sides now, not sure if they will settle down over time? I've also noticed that one side of my chest has more fat than the other. I still think I'd rather see how diet and exercise shapes things before considering a revision.

You can definitely see how stretchmarky my skin is in this photo, scars are the least of my worries :D

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m528/Jeatyn/WP_001148_zpsaa0ab100.jpg

PS: looking great Brett! I agree about posting photos, don't be shy fella's I love comparing notes  :P I think it's great having this all in one place, the individual threads can get overlooked easily and you can forget which one's you've read or replied to.

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 01, 2014, 01:39:09 PM
Feeling absolutely great these past few days. I think I might be ready to go back to uni next week after all. Few things worry me - I have a two hour commute morning and evening during rush hours. I always end up having to sit upstairs on my second bus, either that, or I have to stand. I don't feel like I could manage this for a whole hour. If I could sit downstairs, great! But the pulling on my chest holding onto a bus rail or getting up and down the stairs on a moving bus will be horrible. At rush hours the drivers WILL take off at full speed the second the doors are shut; and will drive past stops if you aren't standing up and waiting right by the door. I'm not even taking into account carrying a bag at this point, teachers will just have to understand that books and laptop aint happening.

My other nipple scab fell off, everything looked great so I had a bath. All the sticky crap is now gone and I feel properly clean for the first time in 3 weeks :P getting in and out of it wasn't too bad either, I had to sort of shimmy onto my knees and use my legs to get up - which is no easy feat in a bath xD but I managed it.

I'm using E45 cream to massage the area. I have loads of it lying around and is recommended in my little post-op pamphlet :P I probably won't invest in any other sort of scar treatment purely because I don't have the money to spare.

I appear to have dog ears on both sides now, not sure if they will settle down over time? I've also noticed that one side of my chest has more fat than the other. I still think I'd rather see how diet and exercise shapes things before considering a revision.

You can definitely see how stretchmarky my skin is in this photo, scars are the least of my worries :D

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m528/Jeatyn/WP_001148_zpsaa0ab100.jpg

PS: looking great Brett! I agree about posting photos, don't be shy fella's I love comparing notes  :P I think it's great having this all in one place, the individual threads can get overlooked easily and you can forget which one's you've read or replied to.

You look great, Jeatlyn!  The swelling is for sure going down.  You really can't tell how your chest will look for a couple of months.  You will find that it settles down more and more and you might be more pleased than you are now.

How about asking the bus driver when you get on to wait until you are seated?

Also, how about modifying your post to list how many days/weeks since your surgery? ;)

I did go ahead and wrote a PM to FA asking to sticky this (I didn't know who else to ask?).

Quote from: Brett on January 01, 2014, 01:59:36 PM
You look great, Jeatlyn!  The swelling is for sure going down.  You really can't tell how your chest will look for a couple of months.  You will find that it settles down more and more and you might be more pleased than you are now.

How about asking the bus driver when you get on to wait until you are seated?

Also, how about modifying your post to list how many days/weeks since your surgery? ;)

I did go ahead and wrote a PM to FA asking to sticky this (I didn't know who else to ask?).

Done!

I considered that, but I dunno I'd just feel a bit daft - I'm probably gonna have to resign myself to just setting off super early, to get out before rush hour. Then go for a coffee or something when class was over instead of rushing to the bus and wait for it to settle down. 2 hours may turn in to 3 hours for a couple of weeks until I have full arm useage

Brett, you look great, congrats! Seeing results like that makes me anticipate my own surgery just that much more.  :)

Quote from: Simon on January 01, 2014, 07:04:13 PM
Brett, you look great, congrats! Seeing results like that makes me anticipate my own surgery just that much more.  :)

Thanks, Simon!  Nice of you to say!   :)

Ok 7 weeks post-op (Dr G.) (picture taken 1/1/14):
http://i.imgur.com/vC4pQ8f.jpg?1

Wow, Jay, your incision lines stayed nice and thin!  Mine widened a bit, as you can see.  This started happening after I went back to work after 2 weeks.  I have a desk job, but I still needed to reach for things, just general movement.  Although my incisions seems to be thinner than many pictures I see of other chests, yours are fantastic!  Thanks for posting.   :)

I hope mine stay thin. How long you think until they won't be able to widen at all?

Quote from: Brett on January 02, 2014, 06:37:08 AM
Wow, Jay, your incision lines stayed nice and thin!  Mine widened a bit, as you can see.  This started happening after I went back to work after 2 weeks.  I have a desk job, but I still needed to reach for things, just general movement.  Although my incisions seems to be thinner than many pictures I see of other chests, yours are fantastic!  Thanks for posting.   :)

I'm disappointed man, I think that since we are clones the following should have happened:
1. I get nice big pecs like you. Not sure where my pecs went, it was part of the clone-packaged deal.
2. My scar goes almost all the way across, it should be separated like yours is by an inch.
3. You have nice thin scars like mine.
4. On a positive note, our nips look pretty similarly nice.
:)

Not sure re: the scars but they don't appear to have stretched at all (maybe under the arm a bit, but even then). I haven't been super careful really. I am NOT working out. Heard someone say they are working out. I don't really plan to do that for awhile. I am doing stuff like walking the dog. She isn't much of a puller and is well-trained.
@Alex the Cat, not sure re: that question. I think they may widen as long as you could feel them around you. I have certainly not gotten to the point that I don't feel them. I definitely feel a pulling or something which reminds me of having surgery. Recall something Dr G said about guys going jet skiing two weeks after surgery. I assume none of you all are reading this here. But a. how do you forget so fast and b. that's total idiot. Wait for week 6 or something. LOL

(Note I put a time reference in my picture.)


--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on January 02, 2014, 12:41:56 PM
I'm disappointed man, I think that since we are clones the following should have happened:
1. I get nice big pecs like you. Not sure where my pecs went, it was part of the clone-packaged deal.
2. My scar goes almost all the way across, it should be separated like yours is by an inch.
3. You have nice thin scars like mine.
4. On a positive note, our nips look pretty similarly nice.
:)

Not sure re: the scars but they don't appear to have stretched at all (maybe under the arm a bit, but even then). I haven't been super careful really. I am NOT working out. Heard someone say they are working out. I don't really plan to do that for awhile. I am doing stuff like walking the dog. She isn't much of a puller and is well-trained.
@Alex the Cat, not sure re: that question. I think they may widen as long as you could feel them around you. I have certainly not gotten to the point that I don't feel them. I definitely feel a pulling or something which reminds me of having surgery. Recall something Dr G said about guys going jet skiing two weeks after surgery. I assume none of you all are reading this here. But a. how do you forget so fast and b. that's total idiot. Wait for week 6 or something. LOL

(Note I put a time reference in my picture.)


--Jay

Jay, you totally crack me up!  Ok, so maybe Simon is right, only the nipples look the same on Garramone's chests!  Seriously, though, if you pull up transbucket/youtube/etc, I can tell you which is a Garramone chest and which isn't!

Big pecs?  Well, you're awfully nice I have watched them deflate over the last 3 months!  Not that I ever had "big pecs", but I was happy enough with them for not being on T! 

Alex, Garramone told me that scars stretching is individual and we really have no control over it.  Our bodies do what they want to do.  He told me about a guy he had who called him a year after surgery for a referral for physical therapy.  Seems he had "frozen shoulder" from not using his arms for a year trying to keep the scars from stretching.  Guess what happened after he started using them....yep, they stretched!

I'm going to hold out for 6 months before I do any pushups or anything pec related.  What is the downside for trying?  This is the reason I got my surgery in the Fall.  I wanted to have until the Spring to heal.  I actually care more about the scars lightening, than widening.

Jay, what kind of work do you do (if you are currently working)?

I'm a good example of things going wrong.

Some idiot yanked me by my right arm when I didn't offer my seat in the bus to a woman who didn't even want the seat. Never said anything to me, just went straight to yanking my arm. I already had some minor swelling and bruising on that side, now it's really bad and depressing me as it's almost like I have one massive boob now.

So here's how things can go wrong. It's always possible. Seeing surgeon on Tuesday to see what he says. I know draining can be painful but I don't care. If it's possible, I want it yesterday! I'm particularly concerned with pulling and widening. Even on the left side where it's causing my once circular left nipple to stretch. I'm sure the right nipple is a write off.

Really depressed now. Keeping up scar treatment on the off chance everything improves and I don't need revision (ha! I wish!) because scarring wise I'm happy. I know the pic isn't the best quality but on the left side especially, they're pink and fading well. Still a little scrunched up at armpit and centre but the stitches haven't dissolved there yet.

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Now I'm going to crawl back into the pit where I wish I'd never been born. Saving up for this surgery was bad enough but money aside for revisions, I hate not being able to work out. I have no outlet for my frustration now and couldn't go through this again. I'm barely coping this time! It's a nightmare going through this madness when you're stealth!

Jack, I honestly don't know what to say to help ease your frustration. That just sucks, try to remember that it can be fixed. I hope you broke the guy's nose...you would have had every right to do so.

Hey, Jack.  I am really sorry you ran into this idiot.  I would be angry and frustrated, as well.  It is like every top surgery patient's nightmare.  I'm sorry, my friend.  Hopefully, any revision will not make much in the way of scars, as you're right, your incisions look great.  Keep us updated, and hang in there.

Aw Jack that sucks so much, I'm sorry that happened to you buddy - this is the exact sort of thing I'm worried about when I start using public transport in a few days. People are such idiots :( other than the swelling though your chest is looking good, the scars look great

I hope you yelled at that guy. Make him think twice about grabbing people. Maybe call it assault and get him to pay for revisions lol.

Quote from: Brett on January 02, 2014, 05:26:02 PM
Jay, you totally crack me up!  Ok, so maybe Simon is right, only the nipples look the same on Garramone's chests!  Seriously, though, if you pull up transbucket/youtube/etc, I can tell you which is a Garramone chest and which isn't!

Big pecs?  Well, you're awfully nice I have watched them deflate over the last 3 months!  Not that I ever had "big pecs", but I was happy enough with them for not being on T! 

I'm going to hold out for 6 months before I do any pushups or anything pec related.  What is the downside for trying?  This is the reason I got my surgery in the Fall.  I wanted to have until the Spring to heal.  I actually care more about the scars lightening, than widening.

Jay, what kind of work do you do (if you are currently working)?

Your clone here Brett:
I could probably tell his patients too, he has a nice even scar that usually curves gently and good nipples and placement.
I'm going to hold out for about 6 months. Dr. G says 6 weeks. I think this is crazy but he has so many young patients, it might be the only way he can keep them from doing something esp. silly. I am actually more interested in lightening too and they have lightened nicely. I am retired so that helps. I will be happy to see if I can ever get some pecs, might be useful now that I am seeing them. But I am not rushing into anything. I have normal arm movement so pretty sure they won't freeze in place. Perhaps my skin isn't too elastic.


And to Jack, oh man feel so sad for what happened. I hope it is temporary, but oh geeze!!!!!


--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on January 05, 2014, 12:33:13 PM
Your clone here Brett:
I could probably tell his patients too, he has a nice even scar that usually curves gently and good nipples and placement.
I'm going to hold out for about 6 months. Dr. G says 6 weeks. I think this is crazy but he has so many young patients, it might be the only way he can keep them from doing something esp. silly. I am actually more interested in lightening too and they have lightened nicely. I am retired so that helps. I will be happy to see if I can ever get some pecs, might be useful now that I am seeing them. But I am not rushing into anything. I have normal arm movement so pretty sure they won't freeze in place. Perhaps my skin isn't too elastic.


And to Jack, oh man feel so sad for what happened. I hope it is temporary, but oh geeze!!!!!


--Jay

My incisions widened a bit when I went back to work.  That is when they got red, as well.  When I say widened, I only mean a bit wider than my original incision.  I wish I had taken another week off (rather than just two weeks after surgery), but I had already taken a total of 3 weeks from work because of traveling and such.  I wonder if it would have made a difference.  I do recommend to any of you pre surgery out there that you don't go back to work until three weeks after the date of surgery (and I am talking about a desk job here).  I thought I was careful enough with my reach, but I guess not.

And yes, I agree, it is more than just the nipples that tell one it is a Garramone chest.  The gentle curve you mentioned.

Quote from: Alexthecat on January 02, 2014, 07:22:26 AM
I hope mine stay thin. How long you think until they won't be able to widen at all?

I am looking forward to seeing your Medalie chest!  You must be stoked.  You're getting close!   :)

I was told I should post my results here, so I would like to share with you. I had my top surgery with Dr. Megan Hassall on the 14th of November.. so I am nearly 8 weeks post-op. The scabs have only recently fallen off. I was not given any aftercare information. The lines are a bit wavy, but I actually really like it. I love my chest so much, it finally feels like me. I did not want lines that were curved (the shape of a breast) but I am fine with them not being "perfectly straight". I heal really well also (I have had over 20 surgeries in my life) so they should become barely noticeable eventually.
I have never worn a bra in my life (I have always bound myself and refused to wear bras when I hit puberty) so I don't know what cup size I am, but people have said I was probably a C.
I had a simple bilateral double mastectomy with nipple grafts. I am thinking of writing a complete review on my surgery, covering everything (to help other transmen).. so maybe tell me if you are interested?

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Quote from: littleprince on January 05, 2014, 03:09:34 PM
I was told I should post my results here, so I would like to share with you. I had my top surgery with Dr. Megan Hassall on the 14th of November.. so I am nearly 8 weeks post-op. The scabs have only recently fallen off. I was not given any aftercare information. The lines are a bit wavy, but I actually really like it. I love my chest so much, it finally feels like me. I did not want lines that were curved (the shape of a breast) but I am fine with them not being "perfectly straight". I heal really well also (I have had over 20 surgeries in my life) so they should become barely noticeable eventually.
I have never worn a bra in my life (I have always bound myself and refused to wear bras when I hit puberty) so I don't know what cup size I am, but people have said I was probably a C.
I had a simple bilateral double mastectomy with nipple grafts. I am thinking of writing a complete review on my surgery, covering everything (to help other transmen).. so maybe tell me if you are interested?

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Glad you posted your information here.  Your incision lines look really great.  Glad to hear you heal well.

I have seen Hassall do both double incision and the pedicle technique.  How does she decide which one to do?  Did she give you an option?  In your surgery did she make your areola smaller (I don't know if Hassall does this, or not)?

I think it is great you plan to write a full review of your surgery.

I'm sure the extra time really helped me out. I could have worked at a sedentary job a couple weeks after surgery, but I was a teacher. This isn't a desk job, and all sorts of things come up that you don't expect.

Prince, you also have nice thin scars, that's going to heal nicely, I'd guess.

Still mad for Jack. Geeze.

--Jay

I'm worried about when I go back to work. It's a stocking job and I'm lifting all kinds of things and stretching this way and that. I might just make my leave longer if the incisions are still pulling. It's originally 6 weeks.

Quote from: Simon on January 05, 2014, 01:13:07 AM
Jack, I honestly don't know what to say to help ease your frustration. That just sucks, try to remember that it can be fixed. I hope you broke the guy's nose...you would have had every right to do so.

If I could go back in time I'd murder the guy, I'm that mad. But no, I didn't do anything but cry out in agony :(. It's been over a week; it's horrible. Hoping my surgeon gives me good news on Tuesday or I may cry for the first time in years!

I do appreciate the support though, guys, thanks. I just wish this was over. Revisions would have to be years down the line for me. No time! I have a Taekwon-do seminar at the end of February, so now my focus is purely on being able to properly move for that! I'm supposed to be sparring too so I need this fixed up last week! Timing was good for me in terms of work, but my surgeon was on vacation for Xmas so it didn't work out perfectly in the end.

It will all be worth it in the end Jack - focus on the end goal and rest up as much as you can.

I start back at uni tomorrow - I'm both excited and nervous as hell. I honestly don't know how well I'm going to manage on the bus, class itself should be fine, I do computer programming mostly - though I have a computer building class on wednesday, I shall just be an overseer rather than doing anything if I can get away with it :P my tutors know I am recovering from surgery, though I didn't specify what type. None of my classmates know anything.

I'm really really itchy lately, though the pain is minimal in my chest my back is still giving me issues. I can now lay on my stomach for short periods if I have pillows in the right places which is nice. It's mostly the sitting around doing nothing I feel is messing up my back, getting back to uni will be good for me once I get used to it. The first week will suck though.

On the other hand, I can wear whatever I want! :D no layers! I won't be sweaty or have indigestion from all the compression. I won't be both hungry and yet bloated feeling all day and I can pee without it having to be a huge ordeal. As a side note, my student finance came in today, right on schedule for the first time ever - 2014 is shaping up pretty nicely so far. It's the little things ;D

Quote from: Alexthecat on January 06, 2014, 02:27:22 AM
I'm worried about when I go back to work. It's a stocking job and I'm lifting all kinds of things and stretching this way and that. I might just make my leave longer if the incisions are still pulling. It's originally 6 weeks.

Supposedly, 6 weeks is enough time for physical jobs.  I have heard of guys who have gone back sooner than that.  In terms of the pulling, I still feel it.  Pulling doesn't mean your incisions will pop open.  For me, I use it as a guide for trying to not have my scars widen.  I think the chips fall as they may when it comes to that, though.  I think it is based on our individuals bodies, and perhaps how tight the surgeon pulls the skin (makes sense to me, anyway). 

--------------------------------

Jack, I have wondered about you going back to Taekwon-do so early (or it seems early, anyway) re: the sparring.  Hold on to hope about doctor's appt.  Maybe try to focus on the happiness of simply having a flat chest, when it gets you down?  Hang in there.

------------------------

Jeatyn, good luck to you, tomorrow.  I think your plan of getting to the bus early is a good one.  The itchiness means it's healing!  Laying on our stomachs (that alone) is supposed to be bad for our backs, isn't it?

--------------------

Is it possible to do multiple quotes in our posts?

@Jeatyn, I went thru the thing of being very itchy and I think my worst week was week 3 not week 1. But you will get over it and feel better. I used cortisone cream and that helped a lot.

@Jack, I agree with Brett on this one re: martial arts. I know it's important to you but it is a pretty intensive sport so soon after surgery, even if you didn't have the accident you had. Though a goal is useful. I still (8 weeks) feel a bit of pulling along the incision if I reach too far or lift something heavy or...

@Brett, I definitely use the feeling of pulling as a guide to what I try not to do again and what I do. I think it's probably a fairly good guide, but I don't worry that the sutures will pop open at this point, I don't think they can. I believe in most cases they are pretty well absorbed or whatever. I have no idea how to do multiple quotes, I think you could open multiple windows or open a text document. But boy does that sound like WORK! I'll do this here.


--Jay

Sparring wouldn't start until end of February which is actually over 12 weeks post surgery. As long as the swelling is gone in next week or so, it's all good. I still have swelling slightly in left side and almost full range of motion with that arm. All going well 6-8 weeks is all you need to take off. From everything I know and have read, your body is gonna heal how it's going to heal. If you widen the scars in 6-8 weeks working out, you'd have still widened the scars if you wait to workout a year later. At least moving more at an earlier stage, silicone based scar fading options can still work their magic to minimise scarring. At over 12 weeks that's near double the recovery time.  Even with the swelling the main issue is more to do with incisions and scar healing. I'll obviously discuss with surgeon at 6 week appointment at end of January, but that's the only part of this whole shambles that I'm hopeful should be fine.

Just did my pre op blood/physical. 14 more days!!

Quote from: Darrin Scott on January 07, 2014, 02:22:11 PM
Just did my pre op blood/physical. 14 more days!!

Woo Hoo!  Remind us who your doc is again?

Dr. Kathy Rumer in Ardmore pa.

They said I don't need bloodwork.

Who's your surgeon?

Quote from: Darrin Scott on January 07, 2014, 07:14:03 PM
Dr. Kathy Rumer in Ardmore pa.

Oh, that's right, I remember you saying that now.  I know a guy who got his chest done by her.  He was quite pleased with it.  What made you decide to go with Rumer?

I chose her because of location and because she's good with bigger chested people. I like her results.

Well that was unsuccessful. Yesterday I didn't even try to go to college, I had a night of no sleep and felt like crap.

Today however, I woke up early and was ready in record time to get out for the early pre-rush hour buses. I had a shoulder bag with my laptop in, I figured I'd be able to handle it. I stood at the bus stop for half an hour, no buses showed up (three should have come in that time) and I realised I actually wasn't ok with the bag, it was already starting to hurt pretty bad. So I just thought screw this and came back home -_- the rush hour traffic was already starting so I missed my window of opportunity to guarantee myself a downstairs seat.

I've taken some pain meds and I'm sorting out my folders to put on a USB pen and will consider trying again in a few hours after the traffic dies down sans bag.

Feel pretty frustrated now, but ah well, I will get there all in good time.

650ml of bloody, yucky, brown fluid drained out of my right chest today. Didn't hurt that much except for the stab on the outer side. Fun part: had to stand for the whole thing! That was...uhh...interesting, and my way too inquisitive med school student ways couldn't be switched off and I watched the whole thing. Ouch!

Took away all the welling though. Having to compress even more too (few towels shoved under my compression vest).

Just glad to have a flat chest and it actually doesn't look all that bad right now! :) May have to get it drained again on Thursday. Hopefully not, but it's a real possibility. Crossing all my fingers.

Jack, I am glad you were able to find a dr to drain your chest. I am guessing your swelling was a hematoma like I had? I had a LOT of trouble finding a surgeon who would drain mine, mine luckily went away on its own. it really sucks what happened to you but I am glad the swelling has gone down. Keep up with the compression, thats what made my hematoma go away.. and I know how much it sucks to have to "bind" after surgery.

I got my surgery locally so my actual surgeon just straight away drained it when he saw it today and will do the same on Thursday if required. Can't say how happy I am to have chosen local! Yeah, it was a haematoma and apparently I have the record for amount drained now. A record I'd gladly have gone without tbh! Lol.

I'm glad your surgeon was local, thats lucky and convenient :D

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here is my 7 months, 3 weeks post op, with Dr G. Waiting for that stretch mark on my left side to go away. The photo's are misleading but my scars are actually turing more white.

Quote from: Jack_M on January 08, 2014, 02:23:26 AM
650ml of bloody, yucky, brown fluid drained out of my right chest today. Didn't hurt that much except for the stab on the outer side. Fun part: had to stand for the whole thing! That was...uhh...interesting, and my way too inquisitive med school student ways couldn't be switched off and I watched the whole thing. Ouch!

Took away all the welling though. Having to compress even more too (few towels shoved under my compression vest).

Just glad to have a flat chest and it actually doesn't look all that bad right now! :) May have to get it drained again on Thursday. Hopefully not, but it's a real possibility. Crossing all my fingers.

Wow sounds awful, esp the "guests" and the pain and the compression, but I am pretty sure that you are strong enough to handle all that, but still rough going. Glad it looks like it will work out. Crossing my fingers for you.

@Elijah-- you're looking good. Could not tell you had problems you did. I know what you say re: the color. I think the camera turns everything redder. Some guy posted his nipples today and I can't even tell the picture is so red looking.
Jack's hematoma was caused by someone pulling him violently. :(


--Jay

Quote from: Darrin Scott on January 07, 2014, 07:47:43 PM
I chose her because of location and because she's good with bigger chested people. I like her results.

Great.  It is best to choose a surgeon whose results we like for our body type.  Good luck to you.

Jeatyn - Sorry it didn't work out today.  I hope tomorrow is a better day!

Jack - glad you got it drained and are pleased with how it looks.

Elijah - your chest looks great.  Thanks for posting!

Hey, Jack, did the doc say you would have to get a revision due to what happened?  Are things shifted out of place?  I know you mentioned the shape of your nipple changing shape.

I saw on the other thread you have to get a drain.  I hope it isn't that difficult to deal with.

Hang in there!

Well that was a fun hospital appointment.

The clinic was delayed by an hour and a half to start with, several screaming children in close proximity - always a nice addition.

I finally got in there, nurse didn't know what I was in there for but then saw "Dr Rubin" on my chart and was like "oooh, you're one of THOSE patients, ok" and gave me a weird look.

I thought great, this will be fun. She mis-gendered me the whole time. So did the other nurse she called in to help ::)

I got my stitches (apparently I do have stitches, they told me just glue at one point) YANKED out - and she said if any more come to the surface to do the same thing.

I've had to put plasters on where she yanked a couple out because it's bleeding and sore. A little bit of white stuff came out too, like the crap that's inside pimples. Will keep an eye on it - hope it's not the start of an infection =/

This can't be right can it? Surely you're not supposed to just force the things out? Aren't they supposed to dissolve over time?

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 10, 2014, 07:59:24 AM
This can't be right can it? Surely you're not supposed to just force the things out? Aren't they supposed to dissolve over time?

What happened to the new age of dissolved stitches? I know the ones they had in my head as a child still have a scar, though I don't think they used any scar care on it back in the early 1990's. They had to cut them out.

I've never had stitches before. The rest of them must be inside me I guess o_0 I must have been stitched and then had skin glued over the top. I had some scabby bits on the edges of my incisions with what looked like just normal white cotton thread poking through, they were yanked. Then I had a weird clear plasticy thing sticking out of my nipple, also yanked. That one was horrible, it was only a tiny nubbin poking out and ended up being like 1.5cm by the time she was done pulling it out. I figured this whole time that thing was just a bit of dried glue xD Weirdly though as gross as it looked, there's no hole or bleeding on the nipple like their is on the edges.

They remove them if they come to the surface so it's entirely normal. I actually did all that myself at home. Any that come to the surface you can grab with tweezers and get them out. The ones I had were more for the tie over bandage on.my nipples at the time. They can dissolve but they're also not holding anything together internally and can be yanked. At your stage of healing you don't really need the stitches any.more and are just waiting for them to dissolve or come to the surface and be pulled out speeding up the process.

Jeatyn,

Just a small comment.  One thing to watch for is "spitting sutures".  I had one of these (and two very small ones).  That is when the body pushes out a stitch.  I am NOT saying this is what you are experiencing.  I didn't have glue, so I don't know how that whole thing goes, including these plastic type stitches you are talking about.  What made me decide to say something was you mentioning the "white cotton thread".  That is what my "spit sutures" looked like.  The result was a small hole that took quite a while to close (a month).  It isn't a bit deal but in the two places where the main ones were the scar widened a bit.  Like Jack said, any of those stitches that come out are not holding you together (so no big deal), but I would just suggest you gently pull them out. 

ETA:  I just found this link:  http://www.laurengreenbergmd.com/body/spitting-a-stitch/  I guess they are all of them are called spitting sutures.  Anyway, I found one post about a guy with top surgery who had this happen.  His incisions widened too.  But, in looking at this article I just posted, it looks like it is not that rare, so maybe it is rare that the "holes" develop like mine did, and most of the time that doesn't happen. 

The article says to clean the area with alcohol or hydrogen peroxide and then put polysporin over it.

"The the top may open with a little discharge (which looks like a small dab of "pus"- most likely just white blood cells and other things) and you will see a little fishing line sticking out.  Usually this happens along your suture line (incision/ scar)."

This sounds exactly like what happened. Glad to know it's normal! She was just so rough with it xD I've just checked and there's still more thread  on the other side, I gave it a pull but son of a b**ch it stings D=

Is it cool to just leave them? Will they just fall out/dissolve? There's an angry painful hole now, I'd rather not end up with those all over my incision line

I expect you'd know if you were rejecting the sutures but it happens. I know this guy who is on youtube and this happened to him. OY poor guy. All the sutures seemed like they came out and his incision got very wide. I think Brett and I might be referring to the same guy, he's a friend of mine.

But you can push out individual sutures and not have the whole thing go. I think it is normal to have sutures come out a little bit, there was something in the post op directions from Dr G about it. But I didn't have this problem.

--Jay

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 10, 2014, 03:39:09 PM
"The the top may open with a little discharge (which looks like a small dab of "pus"- most likely just white blood cells and other things) and you will see a little fishing line sticking out.  Usually this happens along your suture line (incision/ scar)."

This sounds exactly like what happened. Glad to know it's normal! She was just so rough with it xD I've just checked and there's still more thread  on the other side, I gave it a pull but son of a b**ch it stings D=

Is it cool to just leave them? Will they just fall out/dissolve? There's an angry painful hole now, I'd rather not end up with those all over my incision line

If it were me, I would be really gentle with it.  If it was something I could just clip off, I would for certain do that.  I didn't know what mine was at the time.  Like I said, it was this small piece of soft cotton.  I just very gently pulled and it came out.  It was pretty quickly after that I saw the hole.  Then I saw there was another one, but the thread was only slightly popping out.  I put a small bandaid over the spot for a couple days and somehow it flattened out or something.  Hard to explain, but the hole was "sort of" there even though I never pulled any thread out.  There was a small widening in that area, but it never came all the way out and there wasn't a full on hole.  I then found another very small hole that wasn't a big problem.

It sounds like you are describing two different types.  Fishing line hard piece and those cotton pieces.  Or are they from the same hole?  I only had the super soft cotton thread.  Anyway, I personally would not pull a damn thing.  If it were something I needed to clip, I would clip it.  I am not so keen on those nurses!

Jay, the guy I saw on youtube only had the sutures on the sides/under his armpits.  He said something about going to see a nurse to get them pulled out regularly as they came to the surface.  Is that the same person?  I actually didn't think it was youtube?  Maybe it was transbucket?  Maybe even the same guy?  Can you post the video here (are we allowed to do that)?

The one on my nipple was possibly a fishing line type one....thicker than a fishing line though. The ones on my incisions are the cotton type. I had a whole bunch more of them poking out this morning, only on the very edges again, on both side. I gave a very gentle pull and I got a few out no pain or bleeding, and one wouldn't budge, so I trimmed it. There's more plastic stuff poking out of my nipple in the exact same place again, but it's not coming out enough to even attempt to pull on it. The rest of my incision line seems totally fine, maybe I only got stitches on the edges and glue in the middle? I really wish I had been told this stuff :P

The ones the nurse did are mess -_- one has scabbed over but the other looked like a big pimple this morning and I couldn't help but squeeze the crap out. I'm gonna put a bandaid on it now though to stop the temptation to fiddle with it.

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 11, 2014, 07:15:34 AM
The one on my nipple was possibly a fishing line type one....thicker than a fishing line though. The ones on my incisions are the cotton type. I had a whole bunch more of them poking out this morning, only on the very edges again, on both side. I gave a very gentle pull and I got a few out no pain or bleeding, and one wouldn't budge, so I trimmed it. There's more plastic stuff poking out of my nipple in the exact same place again, but it's not coming out enough to even attempt to pull on it. The rest of my incision line seems totally fine, maybe I only got stitches on the edges and glue in the middle? I really wish I had been told this stuff :P

The ones the nurse did are mess -_- one has scabbed over but the other looked like a big pimple this morning and I couldn't help but squeeze the crap out. I'm gonna put a bandaid on it now though to stop the temptation to fiddle with it.

DO NOT PULL OUT THE ONES ON YOUR NIPPLES.  These are normal to push through, only clip them.  (No, your nipple won't come off - I assume - but you shouldn't be messing with them).

Seriously, though dude, is that where the nurses were pulling them from?   >:(

Quit messing with your incision lines altogether. Are you still wearing a binder from the doc?  If so, keep it on and don't touch the stuff.  I actually put small band aids over two incision line ones (cotton ones) and they never came out then.  Subsequently, I didn't get holes there.  You need to baby your chest until it all gets healed. Don't forget the hydrogen peroxide and then polysporin/Neosporin afterwards like that article said.  That will keep you from infection.  And don't be squeezing >-bleeped-< either!

I am guessing you got stitches on the incision line and then they added glue for extra measure.  I can't imagine glue being put on your nipples.

P.S. I bought cheap mustache scissors at the pharmacy to clip the nipple stitches and it worked well.  Just wait until they push out far enough and then clip them.  I had like 8 push through on one nipple and 3-4 on the other.  They pushed out right around the time that your are.  Again, I think this is pretty common.

I told my grandma your story Jack. She was like "you are not leaving the house until you are healed".

Yeah I'll look for the video later. Poor guy. Anyway, I never touched my incision line after I got the tape off. (I mean except to put silicone on it. I never cut the sutures and would not have unless they bothered me. You are going to have more trouble if you don't leave them alone. I think Dr G's advice was to cover stuff up with a band aid and neosporin. I believe part of the neosporin bit is that it is an antibiotic but it also keeps stuff hydrated which is good for healing. And it makes you feel like you are doing something constructive.

Never pull anything out of your nipples-- no ixnay never.

LOL re: Alex the Cat's grandma. Jack needs a spanking. LOL



--Jay

New to the forum, guys, and I'll apologize if I'm posting this in the wrong place. 

After a lifetime of living with "Sir" more frequently than "Ma'am" and scaring thousands of women in public restrooms with what I'll call God's hardware/software mix-up (we have to have a sense of humor, no?), at 50 years old I educated myself and had top surgery 12/12/13 with Dr. Raphael in Plano, TX as well as male contouring to the thighs, flanks and knees.  Thus far, I have nothing but great things to say about him and his entire staff.  To my knowledge, he is the only surgeon thus far NOT using drains for the double incision surgery.  My recovery thus far has been amazing, now at one month tomorrow. 

Regarding this recovery---the nipple grafts are essentially healed and look pretty good.  I even have sensation in both of them, which I'm shocked about (the cold winter has been a "joy" feeling the little critters tightening while they heal --with the shivers).  The incisions I'm covering with Scar-Away, 1.5"x7" silicone sheets, which reduced the incredible swelling of the incision line that started after they removed the initial surgery tape (2 weeks it fell off).  Got them from drugstore.com.  Not cheap, but knocked the building incision bumps to half within 24 hours.

My question to the group:  Have any of you experienced what feels like muscle spasms anywhere in the chest area, post-op?  I've got what feels like sporadic muscle cramps under my arms.  And if you did experience them, perhaps you might share what you did to alleviate them?  I started Lymphatic Massage this week (fantastic, except made me very sore by that night) and am hopeful that with this and some TLC ...... I'll reach the goal of 100% range of motion back, and of course, a wonderful life without those mammary glands I apologized to for never needing.   :)   Any suggestions would be so appreciated. 

Quote from: SaerJoe on January 11, 2014, 12:42:47 PM
New to the forum, guys, and I'll apologize if I'm posting this in the wrong place. 

After a lifetime of living with "Sir" more frequently than "Ma'am" and scaring thousands of women in public restrooms with what I'll call God's hardware/software mix-up (we have to have a sense of humor, no?), at 50 years old I educated myself and had top surgery 12/12/13 with Dr. Raphael in Plano, TX as well as male contouring to the thighs, flanks and knees.  Thus far, I have nothing but great things to say about him and his entire staff.  To my knowledge, he is the only surgeon thus far NOT using drains for the double incision surgery.  My recovery thus far has been amazing, now at one month tomorrow. 

Regarding this recovery---the nipple grafts are essentially healed and look pretty good.  I even have sensation in both of them, which I'm shocked about (the cold winter has been a "joy" feeling the little critters tightening while they heal --with the shivers).  The incisions I'm covering with Scar-Away, 1.5"x7" silicone sheets, which reduced the incredible swelling of the incision line that started after they removed the initial surgery tape (2 weeks it fell off).  Got them from drugstore.com.  Not cheap, but knocked the building incision bumps to half within 24 hours.

My question to the group:  Have any of you experienced what feels like muscle spasms anywhere in the chest area, post-op?  I've got what feels like sporadic muscle cramps under my arms.  And if you did experience them, perhaps you might share what you did to alleviate them?  I started Lymphatic Massage this week (fantastic, except made me very sore by that night) and am hopeful that with this and some TLC ...... I'll reach the goal of 100% range of motion back, and of course, a wonderful life without those mammary glands I apologized to for never needing.   :)   Any suggestions would be so appreciated.

Hi, SaerJoe, welcome to both the thread and the site!

Nope you are in the right place!

I have not experienced the muscle spasms you mention.  I had shocks of pain every once in awhile at the incision line, but no muscle pain.  I am wondering why it would be happening under your arms?  I would call your surgeon to ask about it, as I have never heard of this before.  Massage can be good, but it sounds like you need to be careful with it!

Thank you for taking the time to give us a run down on your surgery history and recovery.  That is neat that you have nipple sensation.  Were these free nipple grafts (meaning, did he remove them completely off your body, trim and then sew on), or did he keep the nerves attached during the surgery?

I started with the Scar Away strips, but it seems like the surrounding skin is allergic to them, getting very red and dry.  I am using the Scar Away gel. 

In terms of no drains, I do know there is a little known surgeon in CA that does that.  His name begins with a V, but that is all I remember.  I think there are other surgeons, as well.

Thanks for coming to the thread, any way I can talk you into posting a picture?  You can modify your post and place it there. 

Let us know what your surgeon says!

The other side of the pond in the UK there's Andrew Yelland who doesn't use drains either.

@Brett:  it was my own nipples cut, trimmed and free-grafted back on.  The only real numbness I have is a small area between the left nipple and incision, and the incision itself is a little numb.  I did get a texted answer back from their nurse that what might be going on is that the nerves are reawakening.  Makes sense.  The sporadic and brief intense nature of it feels like muscle, but who knows!  It does seem to me that the incisions are quite long, at 7.5" and 8" each.  I was a 36A prior.  But any old way, I'm keeping the faith on the healing aspect, and as a small business owner, I was a bad boy and went back to the office at one week (the owner needs to show up at the annual Christmas party) and was driving after 10 days.  I'm taking it as easy as a type A can : ). I'm dedicated to healing this body I respect, and will be sooooo ready to get back to the weights and building muscle again....  I'm not sure how I will handle not riding a motorcycle this Spring, but will refrain if proper healing requires.  : (. I will post a picture if I can figure out how to do so from this iPad.  Cheers to you!

Ok here's the video of the guy who's body rejected the sutures. I don't think he has actually stopped but it has slowed down. Jay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haMSANCO_CI

I'm getting a little worried now =/

Yes the nurse did pull a pretty long one out of my nipple, and two from the incision line. The hole she created has healed up just fine now since I cleaned it up and put a bandaid on. I have developed another hole now though along the incision line which was leaking milky stuff and a bit of blood - not like full on puss and bleeding - but still, I'm pretty sure I shouldn't be leaking D= I can't see any sutures anywhere near it...it's just a random hole. I'll call them up about it tomorrow. Might ask for some antibiotics just in case. The guys chest in the video looks really sore =/ poor guy

Recovery has been going great so far and now suddenly I'm unraveling  ::)

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 12, 2014, 10:16:52 AM
I'm getting a little worried now =/

Yes the nurse did pull a pretty long one out of my nipple, and two from the incision line. The hole she created has healed up just fine now since I cleaned it up and put a bandaid on. I have developed another hole now though along the incision line which was leaking milky stuff and a bit of blood - not like full on puss and bleeding - but still, I'm pretty sure I shouldn't be leaking D= I can't see any sutures anywhere near it...it's just a random hole. I'll call them up about it tomorrow. Might ask for some antibiotics just in case. The guys chest in the video looks really sore =/ poor guy

Recovery has been going great so far and now suddenly I'm unraveling  ::)

I'm sorry if I put you in a panic!  I am sure everything is fine, and really, I don't think you can do much about the soft thread coming out of the incisions.  Just don't pull anything from the incision line (or at least the soft thread, I don't know what to do if you get fishing line there...I would just clip it).  My guess is the hole appeared because a soft thread from that spot came out at some point.  You really can't do anything about that.  I have a divot on one spot that I didn't see anything come out of, so that is my assumption.  Different from the hole, but still something happened there.  The time I saw another soft thread want to pull out I just put a band aid over it.  It never came out and eventually just kind of dissolved or something (I dunno, I just know it went away).

Like I said, the main thing is to just clip the stitches from the nipples.  The holes you get along your incision line (from the soft thread coming out), will fill in.  It just takes time.  I called Garramone about it (because I hadn't learned anything about spitting sutures yet), and as expected, he said there was nothing I could do.

I would suggest if you are not being careful with how you are moving your arms around and stuff, to change that.  Try to do less.  Lift your arms less.  I know you have a child, so it may be hard, but try to keep your arms closer to your body as you do things and try to reach less.

The guy in the video was not the one I saw a picture of on transbucket.  Thanks for posting this one, Jay!

Despite the fact that Riley says this is fairly common, I haven't heard of such an extreme case as his before. He also posted on FB what it looked like when his body rejected the sutures and it looked pretty bad too. I think you'll be ok, Jeatyn. But even in Riley's case, he is might have a worse scar but he still will stop doing this at some point.

BTW, for scars, I read the most thick impenetrable medical studies I could manage and the thing is that while there are other things out there for scars, pretty much silicone is the only thing that really works more than a little, such as Mederma. I don't know that Bio-oil etc works at all. So the thing is to find something with silicone that actually stays on and you tolerate. The silicone strips curled up at the ends for me, and I HATE the smell of ScarGuard, have no idea why no one talks about the smell. I am using something else now. It is pricey but the silicone seems to stay on and it has a nice smell. The thing is one individual is one individual, someone like A Lions' Fears on youtube, he was very small to begin with, so how he heals (or any one person) doesn't tell you much.)


--Jay

From what I've read of bio oil it doesn't work unless it's the only way you're doing anything as it provides moisture. You'd probably be just as well with Vaseline really.

Scarguard smells like nail varnish. But the smell is 100% gone once you screw the top on and in under 1 minute once it's dried. I tried that and one other but with scar guard I find I'm having to actually peel the stuff away for another application. It doesn't rub off me so I like that aspect, knowing it's there, doing its thing and not splitting or rubbing away. I think silicone sheets would stick best but more designed for straight scars. With curved scars you'd have to cut them up and overlap. I'd imagine it a hassle.

Jeatyn: Don't over worry about the stitches. I've pulled out a couple so far. It's not dangerous, just watch the nipple. You're waaaaaaay more healed than me. You don't need them, it's just that they can take several months to dissolve entirely but lose strength and break off in places. That's what pokes through. You can clip them if you like but you'll be forever clipping them as once it starts poking out, it's likely to keep poking out and pushing through until they're dissolved. Either clip and cover, or just grab tweezers and see if it'll gently pull away. If it resists, then obviously leave it. Simples! Lol. Either works. It doesn't matter if it's along the scar either. No idea why folk think this area isn't to be touched. Whatever has poked it out has just happened to occur on that line. The only thing you should watch in that case is not using silicone products on broken skin. And for that reason you're better to try pulling it away as that tiny hole would heal in no time and you can keep using scar reducing products sooner.

If you don't believe me, then a simple GP appointment will solve all your problems. Go there and they'll try seeing if it comes free safely or clip and cover themselves for you, so you don't have to ummm and ahhhh.

I certainly haven't been overdoing it, I've barely lifted a finger this whole time, even with the kiddo, my partner has been taking care of everything like a hero ^_^

As for scar care I just have E45 cream, I have no spare money at all and the silicone stuff aint cheap :P

I'm going with the rule of thumb that if it comes out with the bare minimum of pulling then it's fine, if not, clip.

It wasn't so important, but when I had dissolveable stitches in my hand from a very, very minor operation, both me and my school nurse looked at them and didn't think they'd be dissolveable (looked too thick, like the very strong thread used for sewing leather), so we decided to snip them and pull them out. Turned out one or two of them had started to dissolve. I can't remember how long they'd been in there, probably about two weeks, so it does go to show that things take a while to begin dissolving.

I used bio oil on that to keep it supple, and the scar is white now, but I think it would have been anyway, even the worst of my other scars elsewhere are white now. I was given the bio oil by someone who'd had an operation to fix her shattered shoulder.

Someone did mention somewhere about using 100% silicone lube or something on the scars as a cheaper method of scar reduction, maybe that would work for people on a low budget? He did mention to make sure it didn't have any nasty ingredients added though.

Quote from: lxndr on January 12, 2014, 05:32:57 PM
Someone did mention somewhere about using 100% silicone lube or something on the scars as a cheaper method of scar reduction, maybe that would work for people on a low budget? He did mention to make sure it didn't have any nasty ingredients added though.

o rly? Interesting, I can get an unlimited supply of free silicone lube from student services at uni heh. I would imagine you'd have to put it on constantly though, even the purpose made gel stuff needs to be applied several times a day doesn't it?

Yep, it is all about silicone.  That is what the studies keep showing.  Mederma doesn't work.

I was using the Scar Away strips (and had no problem with them staying on at all..they curved up easily...perhaps you were using a different brand, Jay?), but they irritated the surrounding skin.  Scar Guard flakes off.  I have now been using Scar Away Serum and have planned to stick with that.  However, today I started reading about InviCible Scars  http://www.inviciblescars.com/  It has good reviews.  It has silicone as it's main ingredient, plus aloe, Vitamin C, and a couple of other things.  I am considering ordering the one month supply for $9.99 (it would have to be pretty good for me to pay $40/month, though).  I also like the idea that it is a lotion.  I am tired of waiting and waiting for this serum to dry before putting on my shirt and it is freezing here in the Northeast right now!  Studies have shown that you can use a blow dryer without impacting the efficacy, but the old ass blow dryer left here from an ex is too hot to blow on my skin.

The other reason that I like that it is a lotion is that my incisions are getting a bit dry.

The Bio Oil was helping with the dryness some, but I just read this today:  http://www.ewg.org/skindeep/product/160511/Bio-Oil_Scar_Treatment/ so stopping that.

Anyway, I am still contemplating ordering the InviCible Scars.  I actually planned to do a search on this site tonight for it.  Has anyone heard of it?

Jay, what is the product you are using now?

ETA:  As an aside, I just want to tell you guys I really appreciate the this thread and the conversations here (and the encouragement I have gotten from everyone).  You guys rock.  I am really glad I joined this site!  Thanks for being so accepting of someone new.

http://pansy-boy.tumblr.com/post/19403813763/scar-treatment#notes

This is the person talking about silicone lube.

Had a cat emergency this morning. Getting him in the box to go to the vet was no easy feat, he escaped about a thousand times D= it was a lot of pulling and pressure on my chest and I had to keep chasing him around and picking him up >.> not ideal, but the cat was my priority. Back at home now, had some pain meds, feeling very achey.

He's in surgery now getting all stitched up, he basically had a big gaping hole in his chest. I've heard of pets and owners looking like each other but this is madness xD He makes me look like a right pansy, here I am on bed rest for weeks with my chest and he was scampering around the house not giving a hoot about the big hole in his o_o

Quote from: lxndr on January 13, 2014, 03:00:21 AM
http://pansy-boy.tumblr.com/post/19403813763/scar-treatment#notes

This is the person talking about silicone lube.

Very interesting.  I wouldn't use any lube unless I knew all of the ingredients because you don't want anything that can be bad for the scars (like Vitamin E is, for example).  Thanks for posting this idea and link.  I continue to think about how this thread will be useful to people who get top surgery in the future.  This is a good example of that.  :)

Jeatyn, you could certainly see if you can get all the ingredients of the lube from your health center at uni and run it by your doc. 

Anyway, what the hell happened to your cat?  A hole in his chest?  Damn.  Sounds like he is ok, though.

Quote from: Brett on January 13, 2014, 08:49:55 AM
Very interesting.  I wouldn't use any lube unless I knew all of the ingredients because you don't want anything that can be bad for the scars (like Vitamin E is, for example).  Thanks for posting this idea and link.  I continue to think about how this thread will be useful to people who get top surgery in the future.  This is a good example of that.  :)

Jeatyn, you could certainly see if you can get all the ingredients of the lube from your health center at uni and run it by your doc. 

Anyway, what the hell happened to your cat?  A hole in his chest?  Damn.  Sounds like he is ok, though.

Absolutely no idea what happened, I woke up and he was just chilling on the window sill bleeding all over the place acting like nothing had happened >.> it was a huge scary hole, I could see inside D= but apparently he was lucky enough to have totally missed anything important. He's in recovery now bless him and totally fine.

I'm gonna grab some of that lube tomorrow and check out the ingredients. It's worth a shot!

I tried silicone lube. Now I have a nice big bottle which isn't useless because, ok, you might know why. :) Anyway, conceptually it's fine, I guess. The stuff I got is called Pjur and is pretty much 100% silicone. There are no vitamins or anything else in this. But is slippery silicone and never never blends into the skin. You can have it on for hours. This is nice for sex in the shower, let's just say, but less nice over t-shirts and so on. I used it when I wore pjs so it doesn't matter so much. If you always wore t-shirts underneath I guess it might be okay. Just goopy and so on. (The kid mentioned the anal lube. This has some other oil in it, the regular lube does not.)

I'm trying out the invici-scar stuff (review in another thread). Pretty much do not like anything else I have tried and that's pretty much why I tried it.

BTW, ScarGuard has vit E, probably not much.

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on January 13, 2014, 06:38:54 PM
I tried silicone lube. Now I have a nice big bottle which isn't useless because, ok, you might know why. :) Anyway, conceptually it's fine, I guess. The stuff I got is called Pjur and is pretty much 100% silicone. There are no vitamins or anything else in this. But is slippery silicone and never never blends into the skin. You can have it on for hours. This is nice for sex in the shower, let's just say, but less nice over t-shirts and so on. I used it when I wore pjs so it doesn't matter so much. If you always wore t-shirts underneath I guess it might be okay. Just goopy and so on. (The kid mentioned the anal lube. This has some other oil in it, the regular lube does not.)

I'm trying out the invici-scar stuff (review in another thread). Pretty much do not like anything else I have tried and that's pretty much why I tried it.

BTW, ScarGuard has vit E, probably not much.

--Jay

Jay, are you saying you reviewed invici-scar somewhere on this site?  Are you referring to my question about Invicible Scars?  I couldn't find anything in search.

ETA:  Oops!  I'm sorry, Jay.  I should have looked through the whole board before opening my mouth!

Jeatyn, you have one wild cat there! 

It would be kind of hard to review them after so short a time. My review is really just how I like using the product, i.e. it's nice to use. I'm sort of giving them a temporary thumbs up until I see how long the bottle lasts. I think that's the big if to me.

--Jay

Hey what is good to disinfect the drain holes with?

Dr G said to cover with neosporin. That should work as it is a triple antibiotic.

--Jay

I think I might have an infection  :-\ that leaky hole I mentioned isn't scabbing over at all, and my incision line is all lumpy and painful around it. I gave the lumpiness a bit of a poke - not like a full on squeeze, just a poke to see how swollen it was - and more white stuff came oozing out the hole. I feel sort of off, I guess, a bit tired and trouble concentrating but that could just be lack of sleep - I don't feel full on ill. I am hot and clammy though, I mentioned how hot and humid it is today to my partner and he says it isn't, he reckons it's freezing.

I've called the doctors, but they can't see me until next Thursday. Should I be concerned and insist they see me sooner?

We don't have Neosporin in England...I'm gathering it's some sort of antiseptic cream? Is Sudocrem the same thing? I've been using Sudocrem on the area and covering it with a bandaid.

update post one month visit to surgeon:  Doc Raphael thinks everything looks great, and I would have to agree other than a little assymetry going on with the left side.  Truthfully, I'm so happy to be gone with the boobs that I catch myself smiling several times a day when i realize they're not there anymore!

The report on the muscle pain is the awakening of the nerves.  I am doing more stretching (went to the American Cancer Society's website on stretching post-mastecomy) and this is helping quite a bit.  Doc did answer the question as to how long the internal stitches take to fully heal:  6 months.  Did say motorcycling was ok at 2 months.  No softball for 6 months, though.  No need to wear a compression vest or any at all for that matter, although i read on many sites that compression on the chest can help the final result there. 

So anyway, onward and upward on the healing process.  I guess I was really lucky in the healing department with not having drains--had no external bruising of my chest or anywhere up top.  Tons of bruising on the lower work (thighs, flanks, knees) that Arnica Cream took care of like it was nothing. 

It's great to follow this string y'all.  Just can't tell you how happy I am fitting in 501's again, and to be able to wear cotton tanks without feeling like .....  a girl.  Nothing against girls of course, except my dream's always been to marry one, not BE one : ) 

Cheers to you all---  if anyone has pointers on how to post pictures, I'm all ears.

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 15, 2014, 10:42:06 AM
I think I might have an infection  :-\ that leaky hole I mentioned isn't scabbing over at all, and my incision line is all lumpy and painful around it. I gave the lumpiness a bit of a poke - not like a full on squeeze, just a poke to see how swollen it was - and more white stuff came oozing out the hole. I feel sort of off, I guess, a bit tired and trouble concentrating but that could just be lack of sleep - I don't feel full on ill. I am hot and clammy though, I mentioned how hot and humid it is today to my partner and he says it isn't, he reckons it's freezing.

I've called the doctors, but they can't see me until next Thursday. Should I be concerned and insist they see me sooner?

We don't have Neosporin in England...I'm gathering it's some sort of antiseptic cream? Is Sudocrem the same thing? I've been using Sudocrem on the area and covering it with a bandaid.

I personally would insist on them seeing me earlier than that.  If they can't, perhaps a visit to the A&E. 

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 15, 2014, 10:42:06 AM
I think I might have an infection  :-\ that leaky hole I mentioned isn't scabbing over at all, and my incision line is all lumpy and painful around it. I gave the lumpiness a bit of a poke - not like a full on squeeze, just a poke to see how swollen it was - and more white stuff came oozing out the hole. I feel sort of off, I guess, a bit tired and trouble concentrating but that could just be lack of sleep - I don't feel full on ill. I am hot and clammy though, I mentioned how hot and humid it is today to my partner and he says it isn't, he reckons it's freezing.

I've called the doctors, but they can't see me until next Thursday. Should I be concerned and insist they see me sooner?

We don't have Neosporin in England...I'm gathering it's some sort of antiseptic cream? Is Sudocrem the same thing? I've been using Sudocrem on the area and covering it with a bandaid.

Gosh, Jeatyn, I don't know what to advise at this point.  I sure wouldn't want to wait until Tuesday, though!  I think you should push things a bit there.

Neosporin is a brand of antibiotic ointment.

-------

SaerJoe, I am glad your appointment went well and you are feeling so good!  And I agree, there is nothing like a pair of 501's!

I don't know how to post pictures, my girlfriend did it for me.  She used photobucket.  I have no idea how to do that stuff.  Hopefully, Jeatyn or someone else will chime in.  I really want to see your results!

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 15, 2014, 10:42:06 AM
I think I might have an infection  :-\ that leaky hole I mentioned isn't scabbing over at all, and my incision line is all lumpy and painful around it. I gave the lumpiness a bit of a poke - not like a full on squeeze, just a poke to see how swollen it was - and more white stuff came oozing out the hole. I feel sort of off, I guess, a bit tired and trouble concentrating but that could just be lack of sleep - I don't feel full on ill. I am hot and clammy though, I mentioned how hot and humid it is today to my partner and he says it isn't, he reckons it's freezing.

I've called the doctors, but they can't see me until next Thursday. Should I be concerned and insist they see me sooner?

We don't have Neosporin in England...I'm gathering it's some sort of antiseptic cream? Is Sudocrem the same thing? I've been using Sudocrem on the area and covering it with a bandaid.

Neosporin isn't antiseptic cream, it's antibiotic, which means you'll not get it over the counter here. We've cottoned onto the fact that having antibiotics freely available everywhere is a bad idea due to increasing MRSA. The best you can do really is use an antiseptic like Sudocrem or Savlon, but they won't really beat the infection if there is one. Make sure you're eating properly, your body needs nutrients to be able to fight it off, and try to get an emergency appointment at your GP. They should be able to give you one, and you need one if it is an infection.

Just got back from the hospital, didn't want to wait until Thursday. The area was getting more and more swollen and painful so I decided to squeeze it last night, an unholy amount of puss came out D= the pressure release was much needed. The nurse said that was a good thing to do - if I hadn't of done it she would have, so I saved them the job :P there was still more to come out so she sorted it out, then cleaned it all up and I have dressings back on, along with some antibiotics. Gotta go back on Friday to see how I'm getting on.

As for posting pictures, you need to upload it somewhere first, like photobucket. Once you've uploaded it on photobucket there will be a box that says "direct link" on the right hand side, click in there and copy the link. Then on the forum you click the little photo button, first one on the left hand side, underneath the "B" button; and paste the image link between the "img" tags.

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 19, 2014, 07:41:06 AM
Just got back from the hospital, didn't want to wait until Thursday. The area was getting more and more swollen and painful so I decided to squeeze it last night, an unholy amount of puss came out D= the pressure release was much needed. The nurse said that was a good thing to do - if I hadn't of done it she would have, so I saved them the job :P there was still more to come out so she sorted it out, then cleaned it all up and I have dressings back on, along with some antibiotics. Gotta go back on Friday to see how I'm getting on.

As for posting pictures, you need to upload it somewhere first, like photobucket. Once you've uploaded it on photobucket there will be a box that says "direct link" on the right hand side, click in there and copy the link. Then on the forum you click the little photo button, first one on the left hand side, underneath the "B" button; and paste the image link between the "img" tags.

Hi, Jeatyn.  I am glad you came back to update, as I was wondering about you.  I am really glad you didn't wait and went to the hospital.  So it is officially infected?  Did the nurse say why she thought it may have gotten infected?  I mean, your incisions were closed at that point.  Also, did you take a round of antibiotics after the surgery?

I also meant to ask you if you ever made it back to school and how the bus/carrying of books is going for you?

Thanks for posting as to how to do a picture for SaerJoe.

Scar Treatment Update

I have adjusted what I am doing for my scar treatment.  Last time I talked about this I said that I did Scar Away serum after shower, bio-oil for massage after getting home from work in the evening, followed by Scar Away serum before bed.  I mentioned in another post recently that I learned that Bio Oil had some serious toxins and I did not want that being absorbed into my body (so I need to find something else).  I mentioned I started with Scar Away scar strips when I first got my surgery, but the strips irritated my skin.  Well, although I feel confident that the serum is useful/working, I am aware that there are times that more may need to be applied during the day (which I can't do because I am at work), I sometimes put my shirt on for work in the morning before it is fully dried, etc.  The stuff takes 4-6 minutes to dry and it is too cold here in the Northeast to sit around to let it dry much of the time!  Anyway, I am not feeling confident that my approach at this point is the best, so I did some revision.

When I was getting irritation from the scar strips, I had been wearing them 24 hours per day.  I have found that when I only use them for 12 hours, my body can manage it.  I don't have to be as conscious of the strips as I do the serum, so I thought it useful to add the strips back in.

New Approach

1) Scar Away serum in morning after shower.
2) 9x6 Pure Silicone Personal Lubricant after work for massage treatment (on order). *
3) Scar Away scar strips to bed.
4) When possible (like on a weekend in the morning before shower), I will use a Coq10 moisturizer as that is supposed to help with cell regeneration.

So far (the last 3 days), the strips have not irritated my skin.  I was looking for an essential oil for massage (and still may pick some up), but realized that if the massage could be done with the chemical that is supposed to decrease our scars (silicone), why not use it!  I will just wipe it off after/clean the area (whatever needs to be done), so that the scar strips will cling when I put them on later.

Anyway, the reason why I am so focused on scar treatment is that I know that the earlier you start, the shorter time it should take and the better chance of light, flat scars.  I don't want to do this forever!




*Hypo-allergenic
Will not cause allergic reactions or skin irritations. Contains NO additives, fragrances, fillers, vitamins, colors, water, liquids or any variety of other cost savers. There is no testing on animals in developing this product.  No parabens, no phosphates, etc.

Hey Brett--all~~. Thanks for the rundown on how to post pictures.  With your help I think I can figure it out.  Will post the work of art LOL tomorrow when I have access to DropBox (like photobucket).  Thanks! 

Sounds like you're healing well, Brett.  Would like to see your result as well if you would share a link.  I've used the gels and have had the best luck with the 1.5x7 Scar-away sheets.  Sorry you've had reactivity to them as they're so easy. (I tape them down when they get weak).  Within 12 hrs the knotted up collagen relaxes and settles down so much flatter for me than the topical things.  The other thing too is that the silicone on the strips gets much diminished after 2-3 wash/wear cycles.  (Says to hand wash them).  On the most recent application of some new ones, I just left them on ---even in the shower, and through today it's 2 showers.  I'd read that in one of the reviews for the things on Drugstore.com.  Another thing you might consider is using polyurethane sheets instead of silicone if you're having sensitivity to it.  Clinical trials are saying that it does what silicone does, but faster.  They are pricey, but then again, in the scheme of life, maybe worth it.  The other thing the surgeon recommended was the lymphatic message, and that too seems to help things along.

Well, I'm counting the days to "Day 56" or that 8 week milestone where I can get on that bike.  We're plenty warm down here in the SW, and 65 is riding weather in my book (I'm from the Northeast also and have business up there----so cold this year!).  Dosing back up on T a week after surgery and feeling just a little better every day, I'm busting at the seems to get lifting and get going!  Most days are good despite a reminder here and there I need to slow down.  Without thinking....Friday morning I rolled across the bed to hug my wife like I always have, and was shocked at how great I felt.....no pain or strange sensation!  But later that day, I could have really used a nap, and I'll admit, I'm glad I did this in the winter where the early darkness has me unapologetic about going to bed early.  We just have to follow the body's needs, and not be afraid to baby ourselves a while. 

Well, off to make some snacks and get ready for another football Sunday.  I wish speedy healing for all!

SJ

Hey, Joe (is that the name you want to be used, or your full screen name).

I use the 7 inch, as well.  It just makes more sense.  Is there a reason why you don't remove the Scar Away strips and wash each day (24 hours) as directed?  You are also supposed to change to a new set each week.  I have found that they are wide enough that I can cut them down the length of the strips to get 2 sets.  I do find that after I remove them (about 12 hours), my scars are flatter (they raise later after I have them off for awhile). 

Do you have a link to those clinical trials for polyurethane sheets?  I would be MORE than interested.  I have yet to hear that one and I am Mr. Research!

What are you using for massage?

My photo is on the first post of the thread (I started the thread).

My scars are wider than I would like.  I swear they are slightly wider than a week ago.  It really may be in my head.  I have to measure the width and create a baseline.  I really don't understand it.  I am very cautious (less so now, but I really hardly lifted my arms for the first one-two months).  Anyway, I am a bit disappointed by all my efforts.

Glad you continue to post.

I bet you ARE looking forward to riding!

6 Week Update (technically not for another 3 days, but hey)

Foreword: I totally wrote a reply to your questions Brett, but then my browser crashed >:( so I'm gonna do a full update instead

At my hospital visit today I had swabs taken so not sure if I do have an actual infection yet. I saw a doctor who seems to think it's just fluid buildup - this confuses me, surely if it was fluid buildup it would be leaking....fluid xD not huge amounts of puss. My incisions were fully healed up, but I mentioned before that I had some pleats/ruffles/folds (never sure how to describe them) most of them flattened out nicely, the biggest one didn't, it still hasn't, that's where the original leaking was coming from. My theory is that it was just too big to flatten, so it opened up and gradually got bigger and more irritated letting in all kinds of germs....culminating in a gross puss explosion :-X I now have at least three holes in the same area, sort of awkward to see. Before I squeezed it I had like, puss blisters? Not sure what you'd call them, big white lumps along the incision line; I squeezed - they all exploded - leaving behind quite a few holes. This was probably a mistake - if I had let the nurse do it she probably would have made a small cut and drained it properly. It was a huge relief at the time though, it got like 10 times worse than when I last posted about it but then felt instantly better once it was empty. Learn from my mistake :P call up straight away if you have any concerns, I'm one of those who won't go to the doctor unless absolutely necessary, if I had got antibiotics straight away this might not have happened, but hey ho! Hindsight is always 20/20

That being said though - doctors in England are super stingy with antibiotics, so that they don't become ineffective. So if I had called sooner, they might not have given them to me anyway, the nurse was still cautious with handing them over today and called in two doctors and another nurse for their opinion on whether I needed them. So no, I wasn't given any antibiotics straight after surgery.

On the bright side, the other side of my chest is healing beautifully. My nipples are better than before surgery, responding to hot and cold and I have sensation, I didn't before - very interesting. Not sure if this a psychological thing - remove the dysphoria and the nerves spring into life :P

I went to uni last week, I managed the bus ok but I did have to go upstairs to get a seat and felt some pulling. I don't feel comfortable trying it with a bag yet. Other than the bus it was great! For starters I can get dressed in 5 minutes now, no messing about with binders and layers and "can you see my chest in this shirt?" - I was early for the first time ever.

I'm also cold for the first time ever! I usually went outside for a cigarette without a coat, even without a coat I was wearing at least three layers and always overheating xD I went out this time, in just a t-shirt, out of habits sake and oh boy it was cold. I have one mate in class who knows I'm trans and he laughed at the fact he could see my nipples through my shirt. He said it was weird how he didn't noticed that I never had nipples showing before :D Also for clarification before disapproving - I switched to e-cigarettes a few months before surgery, my surgeon agreed this was acceptable :P I still go outside, purely because everyone else does.

I'm back to being able to do most every day activities, housework, picking a few things up from the shop, playing with the kidlet, etc. I can't quite reach above my head properly, my shower nozzle and top kitchen cupboards are just out of reach...glad I have someone else here or I would be taunted by cheerios. I haven't tried vacuuming yet, or picking the little'un up. She totally understands though bless her. She randomly comes up and asks me "how's your poorly chest?" and if my partner is making a lot of noise she goes "shhhh! Daddy has a poorly chest and needs to rest!" xD

I was starting to consider working out again before this infection kicked in. I removed some of the weights from my dumbbells to make them light enough to manage, it doesn't really feel like it's doing anything productive but I'm sure it's better than nothing, I gotta build up slowly. I'm going to leave it for a few weeks now though.

Edit: Pictures! I swear my skin in general isn't this red in person, why do cameras do that? ::) The white dots on one of my nipples are the fishing line type sutures poking out. They have been like that for a while, not pushing out any further, I'm leaving them alone.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1130.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm528%2FJeatyn%2FWP_001212_zpsba6a84af.jpg&hash=5f63ace4597f336c9b0aac0e6d4e2c2ef3b0aa9e)

Y'know, it's a good job I'm not fussed about cosmetics, my chest is quite a mess isn't it? :P poofy bits on the inside and outside edges, incisions widening, asymmetry, stretchmarks, infection xD I genuinely don't care though, looks perfect under clothes and certainly looks and feels about a billion percent better than it did before surgery.

And the infected bit in case anyone needs a frame of reference in the future for what to look for. That red circle is where all the swelling was. It was like a golf ball =/ You can also see the fold that started it all.

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m528/Jeatyn/WP_001222_zpsb1527b9c.jpg

@ Brett:  Joe works fine, SJ, Saer......it's all good.   :)  Saer is a Celtic derivation of Sawyer, Sayer, Sayre etc.  It means carpenter or some such.  My mission is to keep the initials of my given name (no change in signature.  Good luck with that, right?!  LOL

Here is the link from the NIH site I found.  Other information can be found in the reviews of various products found on Amazon etc.  I've decided for now to stick with ScarAway.  I'm sure I'm doing too much and and am being more active than I should be.....but it's impossible for me to totally slow down.  In many ways I feel 20 years overdue at having this done (buried myself in college and work).  At 50 and a business owner covering 2 states, I've lost so much muscle and weight from surgery time, I am ready to get on with this life!

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov%2Fpubmed%2F19440173&ei=2DzcUvXZHKHNsQTyroHIBw&usg=AFQjCNFj8bxDgnbRF8sWEOwc5Xvpm8dW9w&sig2=eB8u1Jb6bi3zEdMt7iVYDA&bvm=bv.59568121,d.cWc

I'd read a lady on an Amazon review for the ScarAway sheets that there really is no need to remove them---I suppose what I'll do is let this new set get loose for a couple days, and then wash them as directed, rotating 2 sets.  Shower, put them on and go------keeping them on for 24 hours each, and discarding after one week.  Truthfully, I'm trying hard not to obsess too much about it all.  As a type A : ) I could obsess endlessly about the symmetry and scarring.  I'm mostly so glad to be at peace with that aspect of femaleness gone---I'm trying not to get too far in the weeds about the "perfection" of this very human body!  We have to take it easy on ourselves!

Picture attached---hope the upload works. 

Regarding massage, I googled "lymphatic massage" and luckily I found a lady here 7 miles from my home that specializes in it, as well as Swedish and related sports massage.  You're probably at a good jumping off point for it (my doc said ok to go at 3 weeks post-op).  It's great to go along with the massage you might do at home.  The difference here is that for the scarring, quite a bit of pressure needs to be applied and yes, to the point of hurting.  The idea is to break up the massive collagen formations that make up the lumpiness, as is the body's response (and because the dermis has been damaged at the incision line, over-response).  At first they'll massage along the incision line, and later, across it.    I've had 2 sessions thus far, and right after it feels great, but later in the day you'll feel a bit sore (I slept like a rock).  I'm all ears to hear about your experience with it, if you go.  Please do educate yourself on it, check with your doc, and do take it at your own pace, by all means.

[img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/grjmwl0wsop32vg/4_wks.JPG/img]

Some of the lumpiness is not the outer scars, it's the inner ones. I say that because my scars nearly touch, not thrilled about this but I guess not possible not to do this since that's to keep the scars from puckering. Anyway, early on there was a lot more lumpiness than now. (I guess I am 10 weeks out). Anyway they look and feel a lot better, and I really thought that it looked like it was more on the inside anyway. Interesting that this all takes 6 months or so to heal. Interesting.

I am not doing any exercise (well walking that's it) yet. I still feel a lot of pulling along the scar line if I do anything really strenuous (such a reaching really far). I know that Dr G says you can start all that up in 6 weeks. But I think what he is really trying to do is keep the younguns from going out at week 2 and jet skiing. I've heard of doctors recommending very hard stuff like no lifting anything over a gal of milk up to 6 months. That's really hard to do, and easier to get compliance in basic care if you set the bar kind of low. Just my take. (BTW, I have wondered if the story of our inane friend who went out on jet skis at 2 weeks is some apocryphal story. :)  )  OTOH, I am doing all normal activities, and did almost immediately after surgery, so all the chores and so on.

Interesting about your massage, but I don't really like being touched so I think that is way out for me.

BTW, I would guess you could keep the ScarAway sheets on all the time. Not sure how well they would stick. I used a generic, but I found they really stuck a little better right after they were washed. It seems like moisture makes them not stick as well. So sweat and so on make them less sticky.

--Jay

Totally agree that the lumpiness is mostly all on the inside.  The way I understand it, it's collagen formation under the damaged outer layer of skin or dermis (at the incision).  Because I'm still very active my greatest concern is to baby this to the point I'm fully healed (doc says the internal stitches take 6 months to fully heal; I had no outer stitches or drains), while working to regain full range of motion as the body allows me to.  So...a little light yoga stretching, hand weights to keep tendons/ligaments from freezing up, a little walking and a few minutes on the Nordic track, careful to keep the heart rate moderate.  I'd say at this point my reach and range of motion is about 85%.  A morning stretch feels about 90% normal.  Am pleased this far with progress.  Nipples healed very quickly.

The ScarAway strips are stickiest right out of the liners, so I thought I'd try the online reviewer's suggestion of leaving them on until they loosen, just for grins.  They are a little looser on this second day, and tomorrow I will take them off before showering for work and wash them (you're right, always stickier when new or freshly washed).

While I'd love for these scars to be near invisible in 6 months, I'll be ok with whatever this body can do.  I respect the natural healing process, and the kind of assault this surgery is on our bodies.  After the first week, feeling how strongly the chest seem to pull me "down", my concern turned to the range of motion, something I really hadn't considered.  Reading several sites about mastectomy and how many women suffer muscle soreness and even damage, and sustain permanent mobility issues, my focus turned to both aspects.  My fear is in babying these scars too much to the point I wake up 3 or 4 months out with beautiful scars, only to realize my reach has been diminished to the point of pain.  So my approach I guess, is in slowly balancing the two goals; mobility and reduced scarring.  I am surprised doc says motorcycling is ok at 8 weeks.  I can tell you I'm not sure that's the best advice, and will wade very carefully back in, taking a short hop or two....none of my 100 mile down and dirty runs.  That would be crazy!

Very nice chatting with you, Jay, and Brett.  Very nice to meet you guys, and also the Brit.  Such a cute story about the "kidlet" and her reactions to Daddy's surgery. So cute!

By the way, did the picture link work?  I was only able to open it (on an iPad) by highlighting the https address only, without the "img" info.

Cheers, all!

I think mastectomy patients have *many* issues that we won't have. You have to remember that most mastectomies are for cancer, so that to prevent cancer from spreading they actually remove the lymph nodes and sometimes even parts of the chest wall and so on. So the pain, stiffness and so on, is mostly caused by that. They have a MUCH harder time with recovery. I have had friends who have had them and I am doing MUCH better than any of them-- due to a much lesser procedure. (As well as not having cancer and being happy instead of sad at loosing the chesticles.) I am pretty sure you would have to almost stop using your upper arm muscles and so on, to get stiff as the only case I ever heard of is the one Brett mentioned (not sure which thread). I think looking at youtube top surgery patients would give you a better idea how we typically do. I should post my next video here.

I'm not doing exercises but I am also not limiting my movements at all and have pretty much normal range of motion. But I can feel pulling or something. But it is when I do long reaches or something like that. I am pretty sure that is 100% normal. I think that I have heard this is the case at 6 months or so (or perhaps longer). Mostly I am taking the dog for long walks. I am pretty sure I will be hiking sometime soon. It has been very nice and warm lately, this requires me to use a hiking stick, so that would be the first upper body exercise I've really had. (I am in the foothills.)

I have no illusions about how my scaring might be. I expect that given my age, lack of pecs, and lack of body hair I don't have much to hide them. But they still are nice and thin and have lightened up quite nicely, I imagine thru the use of silicone products. Dont' really like the strips. So now onto my third product (now Scaraway serum). I don't think the applicator works so so well, so might try one of my Amazon.com choices.

Your link did NOT work. You can go in after you post and check them out. it's what I usually do.
I think there are several of us going thru this in very close proximity so it is kind of fun to watch this. Jayr also, well he and I met in Fl. But I don't think he posts too much.


--Jay

Joe, you make no sense to me.   :P

You put out the money for massage but are going against the suggested use of the Scar Away strips in order to save a couple bucks?  Yes, I read the amazon reviews as well, but how could changing out the strips and washing them frequently NOT be good?  The "washing" of them rejuvenates the silicone (that is why they are sticky again, just like when they come out of the package).  It is the rubbing of your thumb with clear soap that does this.  Quit wearing them in the shower!  What the hell?  Do what the damn package says! lol If you want to wear them 24/7, excellent.  Just run two sets at a time and put on a dry set after each shower.

I looked into the massage in my area and I have a name/number to call tomorrow.  Thanks for the tip!  I had read about it, but didn't really consider taking the step.  Although I don't have the same sensory issues as Jay, I don't really like being touched by people.  I have never gotten a back massage due to this, so I am not sure if I could tolerate someone touching me on my chest.  Even if breasts aren't there anymore, I haven't even let my partner hang around there, yet.  I'm going to call and find out about it, but not sure I can follow through with it.

Thanks you very much for the study.  Very, very interesting.  I am going to see if I can find more on it.

As an aside, I found at least 2/3 studies comparing the strips to the serum/gel.  It was determined that they had the same level of efficacy.  However, they did find that people are more apt to finish the full treatment if they use the serum/gel.  People quite earlier if they use the strips. 

Jay, what isn't working with the applicator?  I just pump the tube and then gently roll the serum on (I hold up a mirror to my chest when doing so to make sure I got the whole incision line), and it's done.  What is it you are having problems with?

Joe, right, picture didn't work.  Ask the wife for help, maybe?

I love my clone, he is so darn direct. :)

"I don't get you... follow the darn directions, what the heck is wrong with you? Are you flipping lazy?" LOL.
True. Nothing silicone is cheap. Unless you want to get lube. Lube will work but it will get on everything. The idea of getting two sets is actually a good idea. I think they are a pain to use, but I think they are a really good idea. Seems like everyone goes for them for awhile.

I do like touch but totally on my own terms. Kind of like a cat. I will never ever get a massage. Yuck. OTOH, "don't yuck my yum" might apply.

Yeah the applicator isn't always applying gel. Sometimes takes one pump, sometimes two or three. I have read that comment in the complaints/comments btw. The stuff is good though when it comes out well. It doesn't seem to last as long as the invicible (but oh well, not going down that street again). But it doesn't come off all over like lube. I'm sorry but I am on the quest for the perhaps silicone product. Wish me luck. :)

If you want to take off the [img] brackets, it might load as a website? I've had trouble with those brackets before.

--Jay

The image didn't work because you missed off one of the brackets at the end ^_^

(//)I'll have to say, Jay and Brett, you two crack me up with the lack of desire to be touched?  It's a therapeutic massage, not an appt with a hooker!  : ). My better half is afraid to work on them because she's out of her realm in terms of technique. 

Brett---to each his own on the path forward with the scars.  You've posted at length about your changing protocol---I've just shared something I'm trying.  Of course take it for what it's worth!  I shower under a "rain head", not a wall mount type shower, so no direct spray on the chest area at all, and I use non-lotion soaps and shampoos.  The point of the silicone sheets is to keep them sticky enough to stay on.  The "reactivating" you're speaking of in terms of washing is to reactivate the stickiness of the silicone.  On day 3 of having them on, I regret pulling them off before this morning's shower because they were still uber stuck! 

The strips are expensive, but I didn't get to a place where I could pay cash for all of this by being lazy.....or cheap, right?!  I work 55-65 hrs/week, so little time to mess with it!  I'm not a big fan of waste, so the time saved in leaving them on is great for the morning rush, and why not save a couple bucks along the way, a personal thrill.  : ).  Just a personal peccadillo like not liking massage.

I wish everyone luck with their results!

On radical mastectomy/cancer patients: I understand fully the difference between removal of nodes etc.    Lymph nodes, nerves and muscle CAN be damaged in any surgery/mastectomy.  The muscle cramping that prompted my first post was reflective of this concern.  The sensation felt far different than simply nerves starting to "re-fire."  Hence, the reading about the issue.  My left incision is wider than the right, and I have more pulling in that arm.  So....my goal is to work toward full mobility and baby the scars along the way.  So far, so good.

The pic was posted twice, from an iPad....and placed exactly inside the brackets.  I was able to download it when highlighting the hyperlink within the quotes.  I'll try it today from the office on my PC to see if the forum links get any happier with it.  I'm sure the world is fascinated to see an old chest, LOL?!

Hope everyone has a great week.

Quote from: SaerJoe on January 20, 2014, 06:10:21 AM
(//)I'll have to say, Jay and Brett, you two crack me up with the lack of desire to be touched?  It's a therapeutic massage, not an appt with a hooker!  : ). My better half is afraid to work on them because she's out of her realm in terms of technique. 

Brett---to each his own on the path forward with the scars.  You've posted at length about your changing protocol---I've just shared something I'm trying.  Of course take it for what it's worth!  I shower under a "rain head", not a wall mount type shower, so no direct spray on the chest area at all, and I use non-lotion soaps and shampoos.  The point of the silicone sheets is to keep them sticky enough to stay on.  The "reactivating" you're speaking of in terms of washing is to reactivate the stickiness of the silicone.  On day 3 of having them on, I regret pulling them off before this morning's shower because they were still uber stuck! 

The strips are expensive, but I didn't get to a place where I could pay cash for all of this by being lazy.....or cheap, right?!  I work 55-65 hrs/week, so little time to mess with it!  I'm not a big fan of waste, so the time saved in leaving them on is great for the morning rush, and why not save a couple bucks along the way, a personal thrill.  : ).  Just a personal peccadillo like not liking massage.

I wish everyone luck with their results!

On radical mastectomy/cancer patients: I understand fully the difference between removal of nodes etc.    Lymph nodes, nerves and muscle CAN be damaged in any surgery/mastectomy.  The muscle cramping that prompted my first post was reflective of this concern.  The sensation felt far different than simply nerves starting to "re-fire."  Hence, the reading about the issue.  My left incision is wider than the right, and I have more pulling in that arm.  So....my goal is to work toward full mobility and baby the scars along the way.  So far, so good.

The pic was posted twice, from an iPad....and placed exactly inside the brackets.  I was able to download it when highlighting the hyperlink within the quotes.  I'll try it today from the office on my PC to see if the forum links get any happier with it.  I'm sure the world is fascinated to see an old chest, LOL?!

Hope everyone has a great week.

Hey, Joe.  I think my delivery did not indicate I was seriously just teasing you!  If you hadn't mentioned getting massage (thus putting out cash for that), I wouldn't have busted your balls about it!  What is toughest about deciding on our approaches is that we really can never know what it is that "really" worked with our treatments, as time lightens scars as well.

I hear you about waste and saving money.  My behavior is quite incongruent.  On the one hand I rarely order anything but water at a restaurant because I think beverage prices are insane.  I make sure I always buy those select-a-size paper towels so that I don't use more than I need.  Yet, I will spend thousands of dollars modifying my car.  Go figure.

I would like to see you chest, Joe, but it sounds like it is more hassle than it is worth!

Jeatyn, thanks for the 6 weeks update.  I am glad that they decided to give you the antibiotics.  It sounds like you are taking these complications in stride!  It is also really interesting about the nipples (the hot/cold you mention).  Also, yes, it is colder out without the heavy binder!  As I recall, you wore more layers than I did (I just wore one binder and one t-shirt), so it must be really noticeable to you!  I also know exactly what you mean when you talk about getting dressed in the morning.  Sometimes, especially when I am in a rush I notice I forget and have that moment of <pause>, "Ok, wear is my binder and I am ready for the struggle", and then I realize I don't have to worry about it.  I didn't realize I used to have this almost sinking feeling right before I got dressed when I had to choose a binder.  Glad you are managing without having to bring a bag.

Yes, please post a picture at next dressing change!

As Joe said, have a great week, everyone!  Where is Jack?

I'll always keep trying.  Went through the same copy link/paste process, but this time from a PC and not an Apple production.  Geesh, right?  If it shows up, this is a photo from 29 days post-op. 

And I, too, wish Jeatyn a speedy recovery.  Sounds like some bumps along the way, and he's rolling with the punches well.

Cheers to every one for a great week! :D

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/grjmwl0wsop32vg/4_wks.JPG)

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/grjmwl0wsop32vg/4_wks.JPG)(https://www.dropbox.com/s/grjmwl0wsop32vg/4_wks.JPG)

last attempt to post photo from DropBox!

Quote from: SaerJoe on January 20, 2014, 06:10:21 AM
(//)I'll have to say, Jay and Brett, you two crack me up with the lack of desire to be touched?  It's a therapeutic massage, not an appt with a hooker!  : ). My better half is afraid to work on them because she's out of her realm in terms of technique. 

Well I can't speak for Brett (though why not, being his clone and all?). But I am on the autism spectrum, specifically I'm Aspergers. It has nothing to do with what kind of touch it is-- casual is maybe the worst because I can't prepare my brain for it. It has nothing whatsoever to do with sex. I can pretty much take it in a medical procedure but massage is actually an extended thing, which I'd find difficult. Having these issues has ramifications for what I wear (haha fun binding with this!) and sex too. But the condition itself is called "tactile defensiveness". This is most likely a LOT more than you wanted to know. Hehe, I am so good at that.

As for difference between top surgery and a mastectomy-- well it's true that the lymph nodes COULD be damaged with the surgery, it's true I suppose. I have never actually heard of this though. Somewhere in the 5% of cases where there are complications, is SOMEONE with this issue (maybe). I think what is more likely to happen is that IF someone is unusually absorbed in not wanting the stitches to stretch, they could keep their arms down and kind of get frozen that way. I don't think with normal tasks (I mean I do a hundred things a day where I move my arms out from my sides), that's going to happen. I just don't think it is a real concern. I think initially you are stiffer but as you move it goes away. The condition that I described happened to one of Dr G's patients. But it could happen to anybody I suppose, I just think that this is not the typical thing to happen. You are earlier in your recovery than we are and no doubt a bit stiffer, but I can assure you this does go away in a normal situation. 

Also it is REALLY typical to have a lot of twinges and shots of strong pain and so on. It's I think because your nerves are really confused. They just cut into them (nothing at all to do with the lymph nodes) and the nerves are kind of mixed up. There is also kind of healing pain and so on. I had them up to a month after surgery, and don't now at all (10 weeks).

BTW, love my iPad, but I do have trouble during certain kinds of things. It doesn't work too well doing two things at once.

--Jay

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ffi4mawd17plb2q/1month.JPG

thanks for sharing your experience regarding Asperger's.  Am familiar, and surely understand. 

As for the links to DropBox--not sure what's up there.  Tried to post it twice from a PC---I see the link in the reply form, and yet it doesn't show up in the posted msg.  I might try it from my Mac again tonight.  It's the only device I haven't tried it from.  I would have thought the PC would work.  I'm sure it's just the one magic button I haven't tried, so I'll keep hammering.  If DropBox doesn't do it, I'll download PhotoBucket and fill up more hard drive space there.  : )

Don't mind the blank posts, and by all means, don't fall on the floor if you see the pasty white skin in Tommy John's hit your screen.  : )

1 week post op.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe107%2Fscoobyses%2Fsurgery%2FDSCN0233.jpg&hash=240bc6b927282304fd557b5120ee627ac3abfbf3)
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Your chest looks great already Alex! Your nipples look especially amazing for only one week. Had a momentary chuckle there, this must be the one place you can casually compliment another guys nipples.  :D

I updated my post above with pictures.

I am indeed taking the complications in stride, I'm pretty laid back in general (since starting T anyway) - I figure worrying about it won't fix it any quicker so why waste the energy. It's much better already, swelling has gone way down and there's much less leakage. Still quite a lot though, I have already changed dressings twice and the one I have had on for only a few hours is all gross already =/ I was only given four changes, so for the moment I just have regular gauze being held on by the dreaded compression tube ::) I'm gonna save the proper stick on dressings for when I'm going to uni. I figure I should be keeping it as clean as possible, not letting the dressing with all the ickyness on just sit there.

Edit: Forgot to mention RE: photobucket. You don't need to download anything to use it, you just sign up and then drag photos into the browser to upload them. Not sure why drop box isn't working, the tags seem fine, the pictures are just acting like they don't exist!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ffi4mawd17plb2q/1month.JPG

Edit: Forgot to mention RE: photobucket. You don't need to download anything to use it, you just sign up and then drag photos into the browser to upload them. Not sure why drop box isn't working, the tags seem fine, the pictures are just acting like they don't exist!
[/quote]

Thanks for the DropBox feedback.  I've never had trouble with it before, so not sure.  I've put the Photobucket app on my PC and will attempt again later from there.  Some apps are happier than others, depending on how this site was put together.  Onward and upward, right?

Thanks again for the assist Jeatyn--a speedy recovery to you! 

PS:  I've noticed too that on T I am much calmer.  Love. it.!

I can't believe how great your chest looks after just 1 week, Alex.  That's amazing.

Jeatyn, you do seem to be humming along.  You do well at taking things in stride!

Joe, fantastic looking chest (and body!). 

Alex, glad you came into the thread and posted your pictures.  As Jeatyn says, your nipples look amazing!  Is there some sort of clear material over top of them?  Hard to tell from the picture.  When do you get it all removed?

That is a fantastic job, Alex!  Who was your surgeon?  My nipples looked like a train wreck at one week.  By the third week they looked ok.  Sensation back for the most part, right more than left.  Surgeon told me that one breast was slightly heavier than the other and that was the reason for the longer incision on the left.  I never noticed though. 

Thanks all, for sharing your stories and photos---I look forward to following progress and sharing more experiences.

The trick for any other unlucky Dropbox user:  drop the [img] gizmos that bracket the link before hitting save or post.  That's all it took.

Jaetyn, Alex, Brett and Jay---nice to know ya!  Be cool!

The nurse said they used skin glue on the incision but didn't mention anything on the nipples. I'd have to take a closer look but I doubt it really is anything there because I'm done with visiting them. Maybe it looks like that because I had just got out of a shower. Dr. Medalie did me and I was a A/B probably more a B and left was bigger than the right by a bit. My incision lines go way under my arms the same on both sides.

Quote from: Alexthecat on January 21, 2014, 08:48:17 AM
The nurse said they used skin glue on the incision but didn't mention anything on the nipples. I'd have to take a closer look but I doubt it really is anything there because I'm done with visiting them. Maybe it looks like that because I had just got out of a shower. Dr. Medalie did me and I was a A/B probably more a B and left was bigger than the right by a bit. My incision lines go way under my arms the same on both sides.

Looks great, Alex!  I too was an A, and the incisions go all the way under my arms, one a little longer than the other.  Incisions 7.5 and 8.5" each.  You know, we guys are always fascinated by measurements, aren't we??!!  LOL

Medalie did a great job!  Happy Healing!

Joe

Quote from: SaerJoe on January 21, 2014, 05:57:08 AM
That is a fantastic job, Alex!  Who was your surgeon?  My nipples looked like a train wreck at one week.  By the third week they looked ok.  Sensation back for the most part, right more than left.  Surgeon told me that one breast was slightly heavier than the other and that was the reason for the longer incision on the left.  I never noticed though. 

Thanks all, for sharing your stories and photos---I look forward to following progress and sharing more experiences.

The trick for any other unlucky Dropbox user:  drop the [img] gizmos that bracket the link before hitting save or post.  That's all it took.

Jaetyn, Alex, Brett and Jay---nice to know ya!  Be cool!

I agree. Mine didn't look like a train wreck, more like pepperonis. I don't think Dr G likes that one. LOL.
Cool to meet you buddy!

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on January 21, 2014, 12:02:28 PM

I agree. Mine didn't look like a train wreck, more like pepperonis. I don't think Dr G likes that one. LOL.
Cool to meet you buddy!

--Jay

@Jay:  I'm with ya on the pepperoni's!  LOL  True that!

Joe

Eugh, I feel like crap. I assume it's side effects from the antibiotics. The infection itself seems to be getting much better but there is a war waging on my insides xD I'm also exhausted regardless of how much sleep I get and my limbs feel like they're made of lead.

I came home at lunch time from uni yesterday and I've not made it in today. I was supposed to be attending a board meeting this afternoon - I am the rep for my year - I've asked them to reschedule it, if they can't I'm gonna have to drag my ass in for it.

I dread to think how much of a nightmare situation I'd be in if my surgery went ahead on the 8th of January like it was originally. Thank god I had the Christmas break as a buffer zone for the majority of my recovery time or my grades would be completely trashed.

Stupid infection, does it not know how inconvenient it's being?  :P

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 22, 2014, 05:09:02 AM
Eugh, I feel like crap. I assume it's side effects from the antibiotics. The infection itself seems to be getting much better but there is a war waging on my insides xD I'm also exhausted regardless of how much sleep I get and my limbs feel like they're made of lead.

I came home at lunch time from uni yesterday and I've not made it in today. I was supposed to be attending a board meeting this afternoon - I am the rep for my year - I've asked them to reschedule it, if they can't I'm gonna have to drag my ass in for it.

I dread to think how much of a nightmare situation I'd be in if my surgery went ahead on the 8th of January like it was originally. Thank god I had the Christmas break as a buffer zone for the majority of my recovery time or my grades would be completely trashed.

Stupid infection, does it not know how inconvenient it's being?  :P

I hear you on the surgery date.  Mine was 12/12/13 and I am so glad I had the holidays to kind of muddle through to get the first couple weeks out of the way.  We need to be able to function!

Not sure what your doc has recommended, but experience has told me that whenever I go on antibiotics, I've needed to dose up big-time on pro-biotics.  I have quite a history of GI trouble, and I take probiotics as a normal daily course.  But on antibiotics....I double them. 

The other thing you might ask doc about is Vitamin B6.  Vitamin B6 the way I understand helps with muscle and nerve repair so perhaps .... might help with the feeling like crap? 

Just thoughts.  Hope you get feeling better!!!!!

-Joe

Congrats to everyone here on finally getting surgery! I had my surgery 6 weeks ago, was unfortunate enough to loose my left nipple graft but strangely it's still healed really well and looks a lot like a nipple so I'm not too bothered. My scars are still pretty red as it's so recent, but in terms of the general shape and appearance I'm really pleased.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1231.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee506%2F93gravy%2F6weeks2.jpg&hash=2eefe19f7bdd3cdb3534e67cad6441f5c5982e55)


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Looks great Elliot! The fact that you lost a graft isn't even noticeable.

Looks great Elliott!!

You really look great Elliot, can't tell re: the nipples. I'm guessing perhaps you didn't lose as much as you thought. BTW, you have amazing pecs!! Who was the surgeon?

--Jay

Thanks guys!

Quote from: aleon515 on January 22, 2014, 11:46:29 AM
You really look great Elliot, can't tell re: the nipples. I'm guessing perhaps you didn't lose as much as you thought. BTW, you have amazing pecs!! Who was the surgeon?

--Jay

Thanks! I was really surprised by them too, I was only 5 months on T when I had my surgery so wasn't expecting to have any! Finally allowed back in the gym today so looking forward to getting back in shape properly. I'm from England so had my surgery with a Dr in London called Miles Berry, he and all his staff were absolutely fantastic.

As I said on the other thread, Elliot, your chest looks great!  The surgeon did a great job making his incision line exactly under your pec.  And like you said on the other thread, the indent in your chest really does highlight your pecs!  I bet you never thought that indent would come in handy one day!  ha!

Well, here's my update.

Had surgery on Thursday, was released from hospital today (Sunday) - so I stayed in hospital a lot longer than folks in the US seem to.

My surgery went well.  Dr. Hassall said that she had to perform a graft on the right nipple only as it had an odd blood supply - so here's hoping that it takes well and heals up.   

My drainage was minimal, so I had the drains removed today (thank goodness, wow they were painful).  After about 3 nights of no sleep, I'm hoping to sleep a bit more comfortably tonight at least.

I've not had a complete reveal yet, but will do so on Tuesday or Wednesday when I see Dr. Hassall again to change the dressings.  But so far, I took a photo when I was allowed to take my binder off for a wash-up:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi127.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp138%2FArcanus411%2F2014-01-25093408.jpg&hash=92f53803f792041941a03479b6ad5e0000a6d85b)

Pain-wise, I'm pretty sore still.  The whole time in hospital I was only given Panadol (Tylenol) for pain unless I asked for something stronger at which point they gave me Oxycodone.  I've only needed the strong stuff a few times - usually when I wake up from sleeping overnight in the mornings and am writhing in pain.

Other than that, everything seems to be going well (fingers crossed).  I'll keep updating as I learn more.

Hey, Kreuzfidel!  I was wondering how you were getting along.  I'm glad you came to the thread to update.  You look great!  So, you got the pedicle technique?  Your chest surrounding the area of the incisions really does look great.  The more I see/learn about the pedicle, I really might have chosen this, if possible.  I would have liked those scars, better.

That is interesting about the right nipple.  I guess with it being a free graft there is a good possibility that you will only have erotic feeling in the left one, huh?  I wonder how that would be (like if it would feel strange for it to be that way)?

Sorry to hear about the pain.  It is interesting how some of us have a lot while some of us have little.

How much time did you take off from work?  Do you have a physical job or a desk job?

Don't forget to put up pics after the reveal!

Happy healing!

Sounds like we had a similar experience Kreuzfidel - I was surprised when when I was told I'd be kept in hospital for a few days because all the american guys seem to come home the same day! The pedicle technique seems to be quite uncommon too. Interesting that you've ended up getting one graft and one pedicle, pretty sure I haven't heard of that happening before - though I'm guessing it probably has at some point, not all guys document the process. I guess at least you'll be able to write a first hand "review" of both types! xD

There's only one con I can think of regarding the pedicle technique, if you consider it that, I can feel the blood supply...coil...thing...in my chest. It still feels pretty tender. I'm wondering if it will be visible once my bodyfat% is down and I've built up some pecs.

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 26, 2014, 01:58:15 PM
Sounds like we had a similar experience Kreuzfidel - I was surprised when when I was told I'd be kept in hospital for a few days because all the american guys seem to come home the same day! The pedicle technique seems to be quite uncommon too. Interesting that you've ended up getting one graft and one pedicle, pretty sure I haven't heard of that happening before - though I'm guessing it probably has at some point, not all guys document the process. I guess at least you'll be able to write a first hand "review" of both types! xD

There's only one con I can think of regarding the pedicle technique, if you consider it that, I can feel the blood supply...coil...thing...in my chest. It still feels pretty tender. I'm wondering if it will be visible once my bodyfat% is down and I've built up some pecs.

What's the coil thing?  I'm lost here.

Yes, it looks like all surgeons outside the U.S. have you all stay over a few nights.  I don't know any surgeons here in the U.S. that keep people overnight.

Quote from: Brett on January 26, 2014, 03:23:37 PM
What's the coil thing?  I'm lost here.

Yes, it looks like all surgeons outside the U.S. have you all stay over a few nights.  I don't know any surgeons here in the U.S. that keep people overnight.

I don't think the same day surgery center concept really exists in Europe. I tried to google this and got a same day surgery center named something like Europe Same Day Surgery Center. LOL. I think it was a cost savings thing for the US having a sort of unique "system" of private pay for profit insurance.

--Jay

Thanks for the comments, guys.

Quote from: Brett on January 26, 2014, 09:20:24 AMYou look great!  So, you got the pedicle technique?  Your chest surrounding the area of the incisions really does look great.  The more I see/learn about the pedicle, I really might have chosen this, if possible.  I would have liked those scars, better.

Thanks, Brett!  It's odd because when I initially spoke to Dr. Hassall, she indicated that she would be doing grafts on both nipples - we didn't even discuss the pedicle technique at all, so I was pretty much more surprised that she had done a pedicle on the left.  Anyway, I suppose it's a unique situation, so I'll keep posting on how each one is going. 

Quote from: BrettThat is interesting about the right nipple.  I guess with it being a free graft there is a good possibility that you will only have erotic feeling in the left one, huh?  I wonder how that would be (like if it would feel strange for it to be that way)?

Yeah it's a bit weird!  I don't know - I told her that I didn't care about sensation which I don't - so having one nipple with potential sensation and the other completely numb will be very different lol

Quote from: BrettHow much time did you take off from work?  Do you have a physical job or a desk job?

I took 6 weeks off from work - which is more than most guys tend to take, but at the same time my job is probably 90% desk-based, but when I'm working on the floor, I'm lifting heavy boxes - so I didn't want to take any chances.

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 26, 2014, 01:58:15 PM
Sounds like we had a similar experience Kreuzfidel - I was surprised when when I was told I'd be kept in hospital for a few days because all the american guys seem to come home the same day! The pedicle technique seems to be quite uncommon too. Interesting that you've ended up getting one graft and one pedicle, pretty sure I haven't heard of that happening before - though I'm guessing it probably has at some point, not all guys document the process. I guess at least you'll be able to write a first hand "review" of both types! xD

There's only one con I can think of regarding the pedicle technique, if you consider it that, I can feel the blood supply...coil...thing...in my chest. It still feels pretty tender. I'm wondering if it will be visible once my bodyfat% is down and I've built up some pecs.

Yeah, defo - I'll be writing a review one my odd half-n-half chest lol 

I'm not sure why she didn't just do them both as grafts which was what I initially wanted, but oh well.  I will have a feel for the coil thing when I'm a bit less tender - I think that would feel pretty weird, but I guess as long as it looks okay I won't be too bothered. 

Thanks again for the well wishes, y'all :)

Quote from: Brett on January 26, 2014, 03:23:37 PM
What's the coil thing?  I'm lost here.

The nipples are kept on a stalk of blood vessels and the surgeon coils them round on themselves to fit them in snugly behind the skin. My stalks ended up really long, someone with a smaller/less saggy chest I would imagine won't have such a prominent coil.

I'm not too sure how the body works when it comes to blood vessels, maybe eventually it'll all be "rewired" and the coil will blend in better.

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 27, 2014, 05:14:41 AM
The nipples are kept on a stalk of blood vessels and the surgeon coils them round on themselves to fit them in snugly behind the skin. My stalks ended up really long, someone with a smaller/less saggy chest I would imagine won't have such a prominent coil.

I'm not too sure how the body works when it comes to blood vessels, maybe eventually it'll all be "rewired" and the coil will blend in better.

That is SO cool.  So if I picture it in my head does it make sense to picture it as tubular shaped pushed straight into the chest.  Or tubular shapes laying flat against the chest or something?

--------------------------

Kreuzfidel, if you don't mind sharing, is your lack of interest in sensation about not having any before, so you don't care, not wanting them touched before so you don't care, or feeling uncomfortable with having sensation before?

For me, I didn't care about sensation because I didn't like my breasts touched due to both my dysphoria and the sensation was really disturbing to me.

Interesting thing is that I have heard that guys that were uncomfortable with having their areolas/nipples touched when they were breasts became more comfortable and actually started to enjoy the sensation (or maybe "let" themselves enjoy the sensation), afterwards.

Last question.  For some reason I read your post as saying that she used pedicle and on the other she made a DI incision?  For some reason I picture the same incision on both sides, but your one nipple free grafted.

I think it is great that you took 6 weeks.  I went after 2.5 and even with a desk job, I believe that is what widened my scars a bit.  With travel it was 3 weeks from my job.  Although I had the vacation time, my job includes meeting with clients and I didn't want to not be available to them any longer than that.  I should have worried less about them and more about me.  I didn't want anyone to know at work that I was getting any kind of surgery either, so I said I was just taking vacation.  I haven't even taken a full week from this job in the entire time that I have been there (almost 8 years), and I knew it looked weird.  It was hard to work around people's questions as to what I "did" on my vacation because it was understandably weird to think that someone took off that much time to "go to a few places, but mainly hang out at home".

Anyway, I wish I had done at minimum 3 weeks after surgery, maybe more.  Oh well, next time!  lol

I was very glad I would not have had to go to work in the first 2- 2 1/2 weeks. I think that you are maybe more tired than you think you would be and that sort of thing. Plus there is the stretching and so on.

I don't really care about the feeling, and would probably not have been a good candidate for pedicle since my nipples and areola were really pretty large, esp the nipples. Very happy Dr G doesn't give you much in the way of these. LOL

I think I will get a lot of feeling (esp since I have some feeling now) but probably not erotic sensation. I think when people get that back it's the mind anyway. I don't know how you would really get that back with DI unless you have a very strong sensual feeling, I won't say imagination, not sure what to call it. I don't doubt people saying they do, but I do question that it is actually coming from the nipples and areola.

--Jay

Day 14 - 2 Weeks post op

Nipples be peeling like crazy. The edge of the tape has started to come off also.

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7 Week Update

I am back on track, the infection has cleared up, which means no more antibiotics wreaking havoc on my system. Woohoo! I think I'm at that dangerous stage of recovery where I feel totally fine, which makes it easy to overdo it. I clean the entire house and once I'm finished I realise my chest is super achey and I'm need of pain meds. It's nice to be able to clean though, my partners idea of clean is different to mine :P

I'm able to pick the little'un up for short periods, so I can get her in and out of the bath and her cot. Just in time too, my partner got a new job so I can't rely on him for everything.

I'm still not sure I'm confident enough to take my laptop to uni, I will see how I feel in the morning.

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@Jeatyn: Yeah watch out buddy! All the lifting and so on from cleaning house. Now is the time to be a lazy bum. Go to it. :)
@Alex the cat, you are looking VERY good. :)

--Jay

Hey, guys, looking good!  Glad the infection is gone, Jeatyn!

Alex, we were to cut off the pieces of tape as they lifted up. 

Jay, I thought that with pedicle they could still cut down the areola size.  If not, that would not have worked for me either!

Jeatyn and Alex - you guys look amazing!

Quote from: Brett on January 27, 2014, 09:03:08 AMKreuzfidel, if you don't mind sharing, is your lack of interest in sensation about not having any before, so you don't care, not wanting them touched before so you don't care, or feeling uncomfortable with having sensation before?

I don't mind - I never honestly get to discuss these things anywhere but on Susan's, so it's nice to have questions. :)

Yeah my lack of interest in sensation is that I never allowed my breasts to be touched or seen - so sensation meant nothing to me.  I'm pretty much the same as you about them being touched - that will obviously change now because they CAN be touched, but I can't really miss something I never had or enjoyed I suppose. *shrug*

Quote from: BrettInteresting thing is that I have heard that guys that were uncomfortable with having their areolas/nipples touched when they were breasts became more comfortable and actually started to enjoy the sensation (or maybe "let" themselves enjoy the sensation), afterwards.

That's something I may experience with the left one as it will still have sensation - I can't imagine that it will affect me greatly if I don't ever regain sensation, though. 

Quote from: BrettLast question.  For some reason I read your post as saying that she used pedicle and on the other she made a DI incision?  For some reason I picture the same incision on both sides, but your one nipple free grafted.

Yeah that's basically what it is.  I haven't seen anything under the gauze yet (that happens tomorrow), but the way I understand it and from what the bandages look like I will have DI on both sides with the incisions in the same places - just one nipple will have a stalk attached and the other will just be a free graft.

Quote from: BrettI think it is great that you took 6 weeks.  I went after 2.5 and even with a desk job, I believe that is what widened my scars a bit.  With travel it was 3 weeks from my job.  Although I had the vacation time, my job includes meeting with clients and I didn't want to not be available to them any longer than that.  I should have worried less about them and more about me.  I didn't want anyone to know at work that I was getting any kind of surgery either, so I said I was just taking vacation.  I haven't even taken a full week from this job in the entire time that I have been there (almost 8 years), and I knew it looked weird.  It was hard to work around people's questions as to what I "did" on my vacation because it was understandably weird to think that someone took off that much time to "go to a few places, but mainly hang out at home".

Wow that's a pretty short amount of time.  I know what you're saying though - I'm a bit of the same, I want to be there for my job, but I know that I tend to push myself and over-work so I had better just bite the bullet and take off as much time as I can get away with.

I struggled with telling them about the surgery - I'm stealth at work, so I had to make something up.  Fortunately I was vague enough that everyone just kind of accepted that it was something to do with my other health problems.

Quote from: BrettAnyway, I wish I had done at minimum 3 weeks after surgery, maybe more.  Oh well, next time!  lol

lmao That is the funniest thing I've read all day!  ;D

Quote from: Brett on January 27, 2014, 07:41:09 PM
Hey, guys, looking good!  Glad the infection is gone, Jeatyn!

Alex, we were to cut off the pieces of tape as they lifted up. 

Jay, I thought that with pedicle they could still cut down the areola size.  If not, that would not have worked for me either!

Yeah I've been doing that, it's starting in the armpit to come off. Though the nurse didn't say how to do it specifically.

Quote from: Brett on January 27, 2014, 07:41:09 PM

Jay, I thought that with pedicle they could still cut down the areola size.  If not, that would not have worked for me either!

They can, probably also can do nipples (not sure but I'd guess) but I imagine there is a limit to this. TBH, had trouble finding this out.  I also thought that it wasn't really good for bigger chests, though not sure what "bigger" is.

--Jay

I've had issues finding much info about the pedicle technique online too. My areola were trimmed down but weren't huge to start with, apparently I can get the length of the nipples trimmed if I get a revision, but I won't, they seem alright to me. My chest more than likely fell into the realm of "bigger" at an E cup - all the info online suggested that I would have been most suitable for a T-Anchor - my surgeon apparently disagreed :P I'm glad I don't have to deal with the extra scars, I would have hated having to deal with delicate nipples for ages, mine seem 100% healed other than that one stupid suture that's still stuck in one :P

I know a lot of people wouldn't be too happy with all the dog-ear type bits I have and the folds, who knows if they would have been less likely with a different technique? I remember my surgeon saying something to me along the lines of "the great thing about the NHS is that I can offer revisions without it costing you anything - so I can take my time and focus more on the blood vessels than on getting all the tissue the first time around - it would more than likely be fine if I did it all in one go but I haven't done it before, and you are not going to be my guinea pig" - this was when he was telling me that I would more than likely still be left with a small amount of tissue and possibly still have to bind for 6 months after the first surgery until I got the revision, which I protested.

I'm still not sure if he actually DID make me his guinea pig, they seem totally fine to me, the way he described it I was sure I'd still have A cups at the very least. I have a bit more tissue in one side than in the other, which ironically I actually think looks better than the flat one...the extra fat fills out the ruffled skin a bit better and I'm not a skinny guy anyway. My partner has bigger moobs than me now despite being in better shape :D

So today I'm 6 days post-op. 

I visited Dr. Hassall's office this morning to have my dressings changed and so that she could have a look at the state of my nipple graft on the right nipple.  It was the first time I've seen my chest completely unveiled under the dressings.  I was blown away!  It looks amazing.  I've got a couple of photos to show you:

Front View:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi762.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx266%2FMouse5479%2Fcropped1.jpg&hash=1abd51f0728764cceda8d40a57ebf0680978b6ce)

The "puckering" or wrinkly look around the incisions is from the clear skin-like waterproof bandages that I've been wearing.  Not a permanent feature thank goodness.  The right (grafted) nipple has the dressing stitched to the nipple itself - according to my surgeon, it's to make sure that it's kept secure as it can slip around pretty easily.  Underneath she said that the graft is pinking up nicely which means that it's getting a blood supply.  Happy to hear that, hoping that it keeps on doing well and survives.

Side View:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi762.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx266%2FMouse5479%2Fcropped2.jpg&hash=c74cdc86d6ecaf52bb5287ba811f95d3106d24c2)

I'm really happy that she ended up going with the "across the nipples" incision that she is pretty well-known for.  All in all, I'm just ecstatic and she is a really amazing surgeon.

Today I'm still pretty sore.  I'm not "in pain" as such, but it feels like really really sore muscles in my pecs and the front of the ribs.  It starts up when I try to have a sleep.

I'm holding off the Endone because I was pretty traumatised by the constipation/impaction horror.  Panadol is doing an okay job so I'll be keeping on it for a while yet.  I get the sutures out of the left side on Monday and on Wednesday will see Dr. Hassall to have the sutures removed from the grafted nipple.

Looking good Kreuzfidel! I've never seen anyone with incisions like yours....and never seen the dressing actually stitched on....what happens when it's time for it to come off?

I went to college today with my laptop in a backpack, it was totally fine. I also went to the library and ended up taking three books out, which were also fine to carry. ;D yay

I've also realised I've had a nice walking speed increase. It's about a 1km walk to my daughters nursery. I time myself every now and again, my best time from before surgery when going at a flat out power walking exhausting pace was 11 minutes. Yesterday I did it in 8 minutes at a casual pace. Wearing a binder was hindering me more than I thought, I can't wait to start working out again!

Edit: Also, last night the suture on my nipple was poking out a bit more, so I tried to pull it out, it was having none of it, so I trimmed it. The rest of it sorta scooched back inside and has left behind a hole -_- I have a band aid over it and am gonna leave it well alone. An infected nipple is the last thing I want.

One reason I didn't take Vicodone, heard all the stuff guys said about being constipated, and was more worried about that. I think really it's more uncomfortable than out and out pain anyway. Itchy and constricted that's what I felt.

--Jay

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 29, 2014, 09:24:06 AM
Looking good Kreuzfidel! I've never seen anyone with incisions like yours....and never seen the dressing actually stitched on....what happens when it's time for it to come off?

Thanks, mate :) 

Dr. Hassall's method is fairly unique from what I know.  A lot of guys dislike the way it looks as it goes across the nipple, but it's pretty much that you either love it or hate it.  I liked it and so that was why I chose to have her do it.

She will apparently just snip the sutures that are holding the dressing on - they're separate to the actual sutures that keep the nipple on, so from what I gather they're just long and a bit loose and will come out pretty easily.

@aleon - Yeah the discomfort is what really gets me.  I guess some may call it pain, some may call it discomfort.  I just refer to it as soreness since it's not "pain" in the sense of excruciating or searing.  I'll be quite happy when I can sleep without this post-op binder, though.  It's not tight, but it squeezes just enough to pull and smush the sensitive tissue.

When would you say is a safe point that the whole incision line would be closed up?

Excellent looking chest, Kreuzfidel!  I think the incision lines/scars are going to look just fine when they heal.  I like Hassall's work!

4 MONTH UPDATE (16 weeks)

Hi, guys. 

It has been 4 months, so I thought I would do an update.  The picture does not indicate much change, and it is true that you really can't tell when comparing the two pictures.

However, there are a couple of things different with my chest:

* The scars are lighter.  I would not say they are flatter than they were at 3 months, however.
* Although not noticeable on the last picture, the puckering along the incision lines has pretty much gone away.
* I feel feel hardly any pulling if I lift my arms straight up above my head, which was not the case just a month ago.
* The "puffiness" on either side under my arms where the drains were have decreased.  On the right side it is completely gone and I feel no tenderness when I press on the area.  The left side continues with some puffiness (although significantly less), and only slight tenderness when I press on it.  I hope this area goes completely flat and I have more hopeful now since the right went all the way down.  The left drain is the one that was more painful during the time the drains were in.  Either the drain was put in with more of an angle or Garramone made this part of the bandage tighter on this side (I actually have some theories about the cut of my incision lines and how the drains were placed/tightened against my body based on Garramone being - I assume - right handed).  :)
* The "spit suture" is completely filled in and probably was a week or so after my last update.  On the whole it was not a big deal.
* I talked about how you could see small pieces of the areola being pulled away and stitched into the white background of the chest around the entire areola.   Fortunately,it is smoothing/rounding out.  I don't know how that works exactly, but I like the fact that my areolas no longer look sewn on like a child's homemade doll's eyes do (if that makes any sense).
* Since my 3 months update, I said in subsequent posts that that my scars seem to have widened.  This is not accurate in looking at pictures.  It may not be pencil thin, but I think it is still on the thinner end of what is most common.  I think in looking at other people pictures it is really hard to tell width, anyway.  Regardless, I believe that it will flatten and lighten quite well in time, based on another long scar I have on my body (colon resection).

SCAR TREATMENT

Silicone treatment - I have changed my scar treatment.  At the 3 months update I said that I had changed to the Scar Away serum because the strips were a hassle.  The other thing about the strips is that they irritated my skin.  Purely psychological or not, I felt like the strips were keeping the puckering along the incision lines from going away.  A couple of weeks ago I tried the strips again.  Waiting for the serum to dry (4-6 minutes), was not my favorite thing to do, being it is winter here.  Yes, using a hair dryer was an option, but it still took awhile and I didn't like the high heat on my skin.  Additionally, the serum needed to be reapplied before I got home from my relatively long workday.  Moreover, it seemed like it made the scar dry.  I found myself using lotion after first waking up prior to shower just to decrease the dryness.  This lead me to reach back to trying the strips again after about 8 weeks on the serum.

The width of my incision allows me to use one strip for both sides as I can cut it lengthwise.  My incisions are a bit longer on each side than the 7 inch strip, so I use 1.25 strips per week (as I have to add two small pieces).  They stay on well and I am very pleased with them.  They are NOT irritating my skin this time.  I believe that this is a function of the strips being not as wide (I did not cut them in the past).  It seems as though the strips irritate the surrounding skin, but not the scars.  Less skin is being touched now that I am cutting them.

Massage - Massage has also been known to lighten/flatten scars.  At the time of my 3 month update, I shared that I was using Bio Oil.  Although there are no studies that actually prove that Bio Oil lightens/flatten scars (only anecdotal evidence), I figured that since I wanted to do massage anyway, why not use the Bio Oil.  A few weeks later I found out that Bio Oil is indeed toxic for our bodies.  I listed this in another post.   http://www.ewg.org/skindeep/product/160511/Bio-Oil_Scar_Treatment/

Please consider stopping using this product and pass the information along to your friends.

With Bio Oil out, I needed another massage agent.  Originally I purchased a 100% silicone lube (which worked fine), but I decided I really needed something that would moisturize the skin too, as although with the strips the scars do not get as dry as the serum did, using a lotion or some sort of moiturizer is still necessary for me.

I started a thread asking for opinions.  I ended up going with an organic jojoba oil.  It works fine, I really have nothing interesting to report on it.

In terms of working out/strength training, I really haven't gotten back in the game yet.  I did start some cardio which pumps oxygen into our bloodstream.  It makes sense to me that could be helpful to scar healing.  I am still going to wait a couple of month be
fore working on my pecs/upper body.  I know that scars widening is based on our bodies and not as much on what we do (unless we do really stupid stuff in the beginning), but my natural inclination is just to wait a bit more.  I figure as long as I get it going in the Spring, my chest will look fine under t-shirts by summer!

Ok, so here is the picture.  As stated in my first post, I am not on testosterone:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi769.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx338%2Fclearle%2Fphoto14_zps891fac7d.jpg&hash=9419bd63066a97f0c81758f9ee177274662c56d5)

I look just like Brett, so I don't have to post.

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on February 02, 2014, 09:38:15 PM
I look just like Brett, so I don't have to post.

--Jay

LOLOLOLOL.  I seriously laughed out loud, Jay!

Brett, that's a fantastic update - very helpful to read about what you're going through at this stage of your healing and I'm glad things are looking good from your perspective, as well. :)

Your chest really looks great!  Your nipple placement looks bang on perfect IMHO - just an observation as I've been thinking a lot about nipples the last few days lol

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on February 03, 2014, 01:32:45 AM
Brett, that's a fantastic update - very helpful to read about what you're going through at this stage of your healing and I'm glad things are looking good from your perspective, as well. :)

Your chest really looks great!  Your nipple placement looks bang on perfect IMHO - just an observation as I've been thinking a lot about nipples the last few days lol

That does sound hilarious!  Especially since I know you mean you are thinking about surgical nipples and not the nipples on your wife (I think your partner is your wife)!  Yes, I am very happy with my nipple placement.  I continue to be very happy with Garramone's work.  I feel very fortunate to have what I perceive as a good outcome.  I really was concerned with not being on T that it would not look that great.  I had a really hard time finding videos of anyone who had top surgery without being on T.  I only found two.  That is why I think it is important that I always mention that I am not on T any time that I post a picture.  It gives people who are not on T an example of a "non-T chest" (for lack of a better word!).

Thanks for the kudos.  I hope that OTHERS (Jay, as his last update was a month ago), do some thorough updates as well.  I am hoping you will update us with pictures on Wednesday after you get all the sutures removed.  Also, what do you plan to do for scar treatment, if anything?

Brett, I think that Garramone is a real blessing for guys like us.  Because of his experience, he is able to produce results that are just above and beyond.  I think that more surgeons will begin to offer these surgeries, too - and Garramone is really "getting it out there" and making a name for himself, so he will be an inspiration to other doctors.  I like the fact that he will do surgery for guys not yet on T without judging them, too. 

I think it's really good that you're putting the fact that you're not yet on T in your updates - I came across a couple of pre-T guys' videos and pics online, but few and far between for sure. 

I'm hoping to post another couple of photos when I get everything sussed out tomorrow.  I saw the nurse on Monday and she took out most of the sutures, but my grafted right nipple is looking nasty so I didn't want to see it (yes, I'm a chicken) so I didn't take a photo then lol  Good results, Brett - looking forward to keeping up with your progress.  :)

*PS Regarding scar treatment, not sure yet.  I plan on talking to her on Wednesday about it, I know that they suggest silicone, but I want more specifics.  Right now all I have is them telling me that micropore tape will be my best friend.

I'm pre T also.

Alex, I honestly can't say that I remembered you were!  Good on you, guys.  Your posts will definitely be helpful to those looking for info - considering it's scant elsewhere on the Net.

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on February 03, 2014, 05:02:27 PM


*PS Regarding scar treatment, not sure yet.  I plan on talking to her on Wednesday about it, I know that they suggest silicone, but I want more specifics.  Right now all I have is them telling me that micropore tape will be my best friend.

Kreuzfidel, I appreciate all your comments!

In reference to what I quoted above:  I have a friend who is weird and detail oriented like me.  He knew I was researching scar treatments and took it upon himself to look up some things.  Silicone has long been acknowledged by the medical community as the prescribed method for reducing scars (lighten and flatten them).  Anyway, the below is part of an email he sent me:

-----------------------------
Start of email <


This one:  Silicone occlusive treatment of hypertrophic scar in the rabbit model.     http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19331964  gives a good summary in the results section.


This one: The effects of topically applied silicone gel and its silver derivative on the prevention of hypertrophic scarring in two rabbit ear-scarring models is a short self-explanatory abstract.  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21665562


This may interest you the most: The Efficacy of Silicone Gel for the Treatment of Hypertrophic Scars and Keloids points A-D of the introduction gives a set up. Then I think you will want to pay particular attention to the whole discussion section at the bottom, specifically the last two paragraphs pertaining to application.  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2918339/


I don't think this next one is applicable at this time but it is a discussion of various treatments of both hypertrophic and keloid scars via a variety of methods. If you get a year or two down the line and feel the need for something else, this is a review. I don't think you will need anything other than what you are doing now.

http://www.theaaams.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Kelloids-rx.pdf

Something else I found of interest is the new use of Botox for managing muscular movement on facial trauma as a mechanical scar reduction tool.

> End of email

---------------------

Anyway, just thought I would post this in case you are interested in research type stuff.  I can't remember if I read it in the above links or somewhere else, but I can tell you that the serum had just as good outcome as the strips.  I recall reading that people who were using the serum were more likely to finish the treatment than those who were using the strips.

ETA:  SaerJoe read that polyurethane works well too.  This is the article he posted a bit ago.  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19440173  Until I see replication(s) of this study, I am going to stick with the tried and true method of silicone.

Ok I have the end of a stitch right under my skin poking straight out. HELP.

Quote from: Alexthecat on February 03, 2014, 07:51:34 PM
Ok I have the end of a stitch right under my skin poking straight out. HELP.

Do not pull. I think you would be safe to cut it, if you are able. If you can't cut it, for instance if it is too short, you could take a bandage and cover it up. Eventually it should dissolve but meanwhile sounds unpleasant.

Yeah I'll do an update in a bit. It's looking pretty nice. I've been on T, but you wouldn't know it to look at my pecs. It's a shame as Brett's clone, that I couldn't at least have gotten his pecs. But NO, what's wrong with this?

--Jay

So I pulled this outta my nipple:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1130.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm528%2FJeatyn%2Fsuture_zps7d6828a8.jpg&hash=0c1e81d962d7dfbe4343a53b35fa6341b02f8050)

This is after I had been trimming it for several days as it poked itself out more and more, it finally came out with no resistance and I am still in shock at how long it is xD seriously, what the hell?

Now off comes the nipple.

Quote from: Alexthecat on February 04, 2014, 03:20:03 PM
Now off comes the nipple.

Well I think it's been a few weeks, hasn't it been? I wouldn't think it would come off at this point.

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on February 04, 2014, 05:30:37 PM
Well I think it's been a few weeks, hasn't it been? I wouldn't think it would come off at this point.

--Jay

Oh that was a reply to Jeatyn since he pulled out the whole nipple stitch.

Quote from: Alexthecat on February 03, 2014, 07:51:34 PM
Ok I have the end of a stitch right under my skin poking straight out. HELP.

I don't think it matters. The part under your skin will dissolve and the outside part will fall off. I noticed a few bits of stitch poked out and they just fell off when I rubbed the aera in shower (But actually you probably should not rub).

Quote from: Alexthecat on January 27, 2014, 01:34:14 PM
Day 14 - 2 Weeks post op

Nipples be peeling like crazy. The edge of the tape has started to come off also.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe107%2Fscoobyses%2Fsurgery%2Fweek2.jpg&hash=c9e689428df395e851adcd7cec00f3cc55dc7c5b)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe107%2Fscoobyses%2Fsurgery%2Fweek2-2.jpg&hash=9f22cde49aeb792a7a8e3302824fb18d0704ac23)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe107%2Fscoobyses%2Fsurgery%2Fweek2-3.jpg&hash=9958426145912b0e2263358084fbf94c0741635b)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe107%2Fscoobyses%2Fsurgery%2Fweek2-4.jpg&hash=6455d07c38334bd97105566892bb1075e8062211)

lol our chests do look identical.

Quote from: Jeatyn on February 04, 2014, 11:08:04 AM
So I pulled this outta my nipple:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1130.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm528%2FJeatyn%2Fsuture_zps7d6828a8.jpg&hash=0c1e81d962d7dfbe4343a53b35fa6341b02f8050)

This is after I had been trimming it for several days as it poked itself out more and more, it finally came out with no resistance and I am still in shock at how long it is xD seriously, what the hell?

You just couldn't help yourself, could you, Jeatyn?  Damn crazy kids!!

It IS wicked cool.  Thanks for posting the picture!  So much time has passed, I'm sure it is fine.  I'd call my surgeon, but that's me.

Alex, your response to Jeatyn cracked me up!

Quote from: SX0877 on February 04, 2014, 06:12:34 PM

lol our chests do look identical.

Did you go to Medalie too (that is who Alex used)?  Mind telling us about your surgery/recovery and maybe even add a picture to the thread?

Quote from: Brett on February 04, 2014, 07:52:58 PM
Did you go to Medalie too (that is who Alex used)?  Mind telling us about your surgery/recovery and maybe even add a picture to the thread?

Yes I had my surgery with Dr.Medalie and the recovery went extremely well--pain was minimal if any and no complication. My result is just a typical "manufactured by Dr.Medalie"; the only difference was that my nipples were grafted together with areolae, rather than separately.
I am 100% happy with my results even though my nipples were placed slightly lower than I preferred (but still normal). I did not discuss any question, expectation or preference with the surgeon prior to surgery. After seeing so many results I think Medalie generally places the nipples a little bit lower than Garramone does, so if anyone has any preference they should probably bring it up when the surgeon is marking on the chest before surgery.
Sensations are coming back gradually.
I was stupidly concerned that if I gained weight after surgery, I would have fat stored on my chest or even some development of the remaining breast tissue, and have "boobs" again, as seen in some overweight cis-males. However I have gained around 10 lbs since recovery and nothing is growing on my chest :laugh:.
I will post my result soon, when I get a chance to take a picture.

Yeah there isn't much space between the nipple and incision line. My bandaids go over the line. I was like SX, didn't care exactly where anything went as long as I was flat and both sides matched.

Quote from: Brett on February 03, 2014, 06:58:58 PM
Anyway, just thought I would post this in case you are interested in research type stuff.  I can't remember if I read it in the above links or somewhere else, but I can tell you that the serum had just as good outcome as the strips.  I recall reading that people who were using the serum were more likely to finish the treatment than those who were using the strips.

ETA:  SaerJoe read that polyurethane works well too.  This is the article he posted a bit ago.  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19440173  Until I see replication(s) of this study, I am going to stick with the tried and true method of silicone.

Thanks for the info, Brett!  I'll defo look into these things.   By the way, how soon after surgery can you start applying scar treatments?  I'm sure I can ask Dr. Hassall, but I honestly don't know if I've ever read when it's safe to start.  ???

Update: 

Tomorrow is 2 weeks post-op.  I saw Dr. Hassall today and she looked at my nipple graft after I saw the nurse on Monday who said it looked sad but okay.  Dr. Hassall said it still has a lot of healing to do, but that it looks fine - so if the surgeon is happy, then I'm happy.  This was my last appointment with her as I'll be going back home to Adelaide on Saturday.

She removed the last of the stitches out of the graft and changed the tape and waterproof dressing on my skin.  The left side of my chest looks amazing - healing perfectly.  It's just that I managed to actually look at the graft today and it looked horrific to my eyes.  It was almost bloody and just like an open wound - it's a bit concave as the top layer has sloughed off.  Apparently that's okay according to Dr. Hassall.  I just hope that it continues to heal without issue as I'd really hate to lose the graft and have to have another surgery.

But all in all, I'm quite happy with the way it looks.  I'll take a photo and post it next week when we change the dressing at home.

I'm certain my nipple won't fall off at this point :D the thing poking out was preventing it from healing properly at the top, I had a hole. I no longer have a hole, all sealed up!

Day 21 - 3 weeks post op. Little late to posting

I haz perdy nipples.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe107%2Fscoobyses%2Fsurgery%2Fweek3-1.jpg&hash=7c695c77cb86ba77b7e9264870263880a836618e)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe107%2Fscoobyses%2Fsurgery%2Fweek3-2.jpg&hash=e1270cd6eb75476298ea85b23a2e79dd9698b0c4)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe107%2Fscoobyses%2Fsurgery%2Fweek3-3.jpg&hash=fa53e0c3ef47fd0de746351ba1934839c0333683)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe107%2Fscoobyses%2Fsurgery%2Fweek3-4.jpg&hash=b4f45a351888d52ad61f5a12e0cd028c2a453933)

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on February 05, 2014, 01:34:06 AM
Thanks for the info, Brett!  I'll defo look into these things.   By the way, how soon after surgery can you start applying scar treatments?  I'm sure I can ask Dr. Hassall, but I honestly don't know if I've ever read when it's safe to start.  ???

Update: 

Tomorrow is 2 weeks post-op.  I saw Dr. Hassall today and she looked at my nipple graft after I saw the nurse on Monday who said it looked sad but okay.  Dr. Hassall said it still has a lot of healing to do, but that it looks fine - so if the surgeon is happy, then I'm happy.  This was my last appointment with her as I'll be going back home to Adelaide on Saturday.

She removed the last of the stitches out of the graft and changed the tape and waterproof dressing on my skin.  The left side of my chest looks amazing - healing perfectly.  It's just that I managed to actually look at the graft today and it looked horrific to my eyes.  It was almost bloody and just like an open wound - it's a bit concave as the top layer has sloughed off.  Apparently that's okay according to Dr. Hassall.  I just hope that it continues to heal without issue as I'd really hate to lose the graft and have to have another surgery.

But all in all, I'm quite happy with the way it looks.  I'll take a photo and post it next week when we change the dressing at home.

Hey, KZ (your name is so long!), you can start using scar treatment after it is completely closed. 

Don't sweat how your grafted nipple looks.  Most look like >-bleeped-< at first.

Yes, please post pics next time you have the dressings off!

Alex,  your chest is looking good.  It looks as though all of your pictures is you holding the camera down low pointing up towards your chest.  Any way you can get someone to take it straight on?  Chests look different based on where you are holding the camera/ the angle.

You incision lines look really great...now DON'T MOVE and they will stay Just. Like. That. lol

Ok, so I don't think this is "just in my head".  It seems as though there as been a marked lightening of my scars since I have been using the jojoba oil for massage over the last couple of weeks.  I probably have only used it about 5 times, too. 

Anyone else doing any kind of massage and seeing a difference?  I think it may be the moisturizing from the oil that is making the difference, as well.

Jay, are you still using the Scar Away serum or have you changed to something else?  I continue with the Scar Away strips, 24 hours/day.  I was saying to my partner tonight that it does suck to think that I am going to be wearing these stupid strips for a year (this is my estimate).  I just want to be done with it all, already!  Grrr.

Yeah I am continuing with the Scaraway serum. Not a big fan of the applicator, but I don't really want to pay for shipping from Amazon. The stuff is not too sticky or whatever else that could be wrong with it. Looks like i will get pretty much exactly 1 month out of them. (I don't know why but a guy named Rae, on youtube, another clone, got only a week out of his bottle.) I might use it for 6 months, not sure after that or if it matters anymore. I have heard someone asked Dr G and he basically said something like use it for a couple months and you won't have much benefit after that. One thing I have found with it, is that you can think it is not coming out because of being numb. I am more numb on one side than the other. Guessing this is what happened with Rae.

BTW, had EXACTLy the opposite experience massaging. I used grape seed oil per the recommendation of the masseuse that posted here once. I felt it made my scars stretch more. Now maybe they would have anyway. I noticed our friend on youtube who is most obsessive about massaging has the reddest scars. Might be a coincidence? Doubt it has much to do with what you are massaging with. But maybe I gave you better advice than she did. :)


--Jay

2 months and 20 days. Left nipple is a little more oval shaped than I'd like to be but I doubt it's as noticeable to other people. I had no sensation in my nipples at all before surgery and now they're so ridiculously sensitive I can't even scratch them if I'm itchy. Anyone else have this change?

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FRCmIihZ.jpg&hash=25b3b26cd9bda541c893de67a8bb3aca946efa16)
(I had to edit my tattoos out so it probably looks a little weird around my neck.)

Quote from: timbuck2 on February 10, 2014, 05:26:57 AM
2 months and 20 days. Left nipple is a little more oval shaped than I'd like to be but I doubt it's as noticeable to other people. I had no sensation in my nipples at all before surgery and now they're so ridiculously sensitive I can't even scratch them if I'm itchy. Anyone else have this change?

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FRCmIihZ.jpg&hash=25b3b26cd9bda541c893de67a8bb3aca946efa16)
(I had to edit my tattoos out so it probably looks a little weird around my neck.)

Hey, timbuck, thanks for posting.

1) Could you tell us who your surgeon was?
2) You mentioned that your nipples are more sensitive, did they keep them attached during surgery, or did you have free nipple grafts?
3) What scar treatment are you using, if any?

I think that your chest looks really good.  I would suggest not focusing on what is going on with nipple shape.  I am 4 months/one week out and the shape has changed over time (including past 2 months).  They say things don't completely settle until 6 months.  I think that your nipples look very well done.  They look very natural.

------------

Jay, in terms of the stretching of scars...I know that they say to not use Vitamin E oil due to stretching (at least early on).  I have not heard the same of any other product.  Is it possible that you are just moving around more and that is why they are stretching?  It could just be normal life.  My scar are continuing to widen a bit, which bums me out, but I really think we don't have much control over it.  Garromone pretty much said this to me.

For the Scar Away serum, I did it by sight.  You can't tell if it is on by feel due to numbing.  Let it dry completely before you put a shirt on.  If you don't want to wait, use a blow dryer.  Per a research article, using a hair dryer did not take away from efficacy of silicone serum treatment.  After it dries it is not sticky.

In terms of our fellow clone on youtube, he recently made a video saying that he hasn't used anything in 2 months.  The other thing to remember about him is that Bio Oil is the only product he has ever used (besides Scar Guard very briefly), and there is not data that suggests that stuff works, just anecdotal evidence.  I also have noticed his scars have not lightened.

In terms of the idea that Garramone says that after a couple of months it makes no difference, I beg to differ.

Let me tell you something that has been amazing to me and a bit shocking.  I have a long rippled/bumpy scar from a colon resection I got in 8/2010.  I have been using the serum on that from the beginning.  At first it was just a place to "wipe off" the extra after placing over my incisions.  The scar was already white due to time.  Anyway, it has been simply amazing to me the way that it has flattened out.  I mean there were significant caverns (I can't think of a better word) along the scar line and it has really flattened.  The rate of change on this has been much quicker than the lightening of my chest scars.  Supposedly, it takes much longer for old scar to lighten/flatten, but this has been amazing!  Needless to say, I will continue to use the serum in this area.  The serum settles right in to the crevices.

Quote from: Brett on February 10, 2014, 09:19:48 AM
Hey, timbuck, thanks for posting.

1) Could you tell us who your surgeon was?
2) You mentioned that your nipples are more sensitive, did they keep them attached during surgery, or did you have free nipple grafts?
3) What scar treatment are you using, if any?

I think that your chest looks really good.  I would suggest not focusing on what is going on with nipple shape.  I am 4 months/one week out and the shape has changed over time (including past 2 months).  They say things don't completely settle until 6 months.  I think that your nipples look very well done.  They look very natural.

Curtis Crane in San Francisco, CA.
I had nipple grafts. One of them bled a lot more than the other and unsurprisingly thats the one I'm not fond of haha. I've been using the scar away scar diminshing serum that you mentioned above on and off and I've seen a marked difference on each side. Left is lighter and the right is smoother.

I'm glad to hear it looks good! We're all our own worst critic so naturally I've been finding every little flaw but I'm glad to hear about the changes you've had. Gives me a better idea of what can happen.

Quote from: Brett on February 10, 2014, 09:19:48 AM
------

Jay, in terms of the stretching of scars...I know that they say to not use Vitamin E oil due to stretching (at least early on).  I have not heard the same of any other product.  Is it possible that you are just moving around more and that is why they are stretching?...

For the Scar Away serum, I did it by sight.  You can't tell if it is on by feel due to numbing.  Let it dry completely before you put a shirt on.  If you don't want to wait, use a blow dryer.  Per a research article, using a hair dryer did not take away from efficacy of silicone serum treatment.  After it dries it is not sticky.

In terms of our fellow clone on youtube, he recently made a video saying that he hasn't used anything in 2 months.  The other thing to remember about him is that Bio Oil is the only product he has ever used (besides Scar Guard very briefly), and there is not data that suggests that stuff works, just anecdotal evidence.  I also have noticed his scars have not lightened.

In terms of the idea that Garramone says that after a couple of months it makes no difference, I beg to differ.

Yes, I think it could totally be coincidence!!! It just happened when I used the oil and perhaps I moved more or whatever. They are going to stretch for whatever reason. And yes, I realize our clone on youtube used Bio Oil. Haven't actually heard anything taht says this works. I'm sticking with the serum. I think it might be the best, at least for me, since I do not want to use strips. I was saying the pros of it, as I haven't had any problems with stickiness or anything like that. It's fairly reasonable. Mine have lightened a LOT. Goign to post soon.
Well Dr G is not an expert on scars, he just creates them. LOL

--Jay

Day 28 - 4 weeks post op

Starting scar strips today.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe107%2Fscoobyses%2Fsurgery%2Fweek4-1.jpg&hash=e372a1e3aa6e1338023b797144716b4633b7c3cc)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe107%2Fscoobyses%2Fsurgery%2Fweek4-2.jpg&hash=7688b25be63681c9c5c9f9d32b48866fd043d51a)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe107%2Fscoobyses%2Fsurgery%2Fweek4-3.jpg&hash=cd192d8516dc52c347ac63b7e858e42bc85cf260)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe107%2Fscoobyses%2Fsurgery%2Fweek4-4.jpg&hash=d1f668ed0337018069bf802b8d9bb28e89e38a5a)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe107%2Fscoobyses%2Fsurgery%2Fweek4-5.jpg&hash=df19279dfbec1c13422c4d1a2d4f9c8e2660f469)

Hey got an update. I'm 3 months post-op. A clone of Dr Garramone. Some swelling on left side esp. Right nip hasn't "popped" whatever that would entail (he talks about this). I am using Scaraway serum, which is silicone gel. The scar actually looks a lot lighter IRL. Looks quite red in the picture.  No problems at all. Just went snow shoeing this weekend, so this is really the first time I have really done exercise in awhile (would have been nice had I been a little more worked out for that one!!).  Jay

Picture: (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPES1eOR.jpg&hash=548fb533f7a195601dad144fceb36d69a6af4682)

Alex and Jay both of your chests look really, really great!  Jay, with you holding the camera differently it is a better view of your chest than before.  I think the learning curve for the top surgeons out there is getting better!  Seems to me we are seeing better results in the community as a whole.

timbuck, I find it really facinating that you are having sensitivity when you had free grafts!  I have no feeling in my nipples at all.

Thanks for the updated pictures, guys!

Yeah Brett, I realized that why my chest didn't look as good in the pictures was I was holding the camera. It looked so much better in the videos. I decided to take the picture on the computer and not the iPad. Also, of course, I think it starting to look very good and the just having had surgery look is gone.

--Jay

Medalie says I don't need the bandages any more!

Wow everyone is looking good. I had my surgery on Jan 23rd and I can't express how happy I am. The only thing that I have to remember now is walking outside in the cold with only a T-shirt is now really only a T-shirt and not a tank under a binder under a T-shirt lol.

Dr. Gary Lawton did my surgery and I'll post pictures once my nipples are less of a scabby mess. I am pleased with my scar lines so far and the way my pecs look. I was a tad worried since this surgeon doesn't have his patients use binders at all post surgery, unlike most other top surgeons, but his results on a couple of the local guys were excellent and he is local to me so I went with him and I can say I'm happy I did. One difference I notice now is my nipples seem sensitive, which was not expected since they are grafts and were not sensitive at all before. Perhaps I had a disconnect to what they were before the 23 I had a mental block of some sort...Interesting thought.

Another question for all you guys...what do you do about the boredom? I'm at a loss for what to do. I'm used to working 7 days a week between 5 and 8 hours each day so beyond work, sleep, working out and cabbing stones and gems I didn't have time for anything else. I'm already bored with Netflix and TV...ugh the reruns are endless. I never realized before now how physical my hobbies are.

So does anyone have boredom beating tips or activities safe for post top surgery?

Quote from: Sebryn on February 11, 2014, 10:30:06 PM
So does anyone have boredom beating tips or activities safe for post top surgery?

Play many flash games. http://www.kongregate.com/

Quote from: Alexthecat on February 11, 2014, 10:46:49 PM
Play many flash games. http://www.kongregate.com/

Lol I laughed at that since I have been thinking of getting my MacBook and doing that, but then I may be tempted to program/code and I don't know how excessive typing would be on the surgery wounds since I get in a "zone" and lose track of almost everything around me, including time and body pain responses.

I have been playing many many apps. (All the Doodle game apps beat 100% without using google...) I mainly use my iPad since it's very difficult to type code on.

Thanks for the link.

I was VERY stir crazy! After awhile a trip to the grocery store and kind of thing where I could move around was what I wanted. I was so happy when I could drive again. I'm afraid I had the same problem. I just think some people are more restless than others.

I watched a lot of Netflix, but after awhile that didn't really work either.

--Jay

Quote from: Sebryn on February 11, 2014, 10:30:06 PMSo does anyone have boredom beating tips or activities safe for post top surgery?

Sign up for Ancestry.com.  Hours of fun (but then again, maybe not - I'm just a nerd).

I love writing, so this is giving me a great chance to catch up on all of my essays I've been working on.

Also, I've been doing more art - I've not had the inclination to draw in a long time.

3 Week Update:

Surgeon - Dr. Megan Hassall (Sydney, New South Wales, Australia)

Sugery - Bilateral Subcutaneous Mastectomy - left nipple re-sized with preserved blood supply; right nipple free grafted (could not preserve the original blood supply)


So today I was allowed to remove the post-op binder that I've been wearing since the surgery.  It was great to have it off, although I'm highly sensitised over the skin at the top part of my pecs.  I'm still mostly numb throughout the entire pec region on both sides, though I have some tenderness when I press on that area.

I've been wearing silver pads over both nipples, micropore tape over the incisions and clear, waterproof dressings over both sides of my chest.  My wife changed the dressings tonight and was told by Dr. Hassall to debride the skin that's sloughing off over the nipple graft. 

My incisions and the left nipple look fantastic, but the right nipple (graft) is worrisome.  It looks absolutely atrocious - and my wife is a little concerned about it, so we've emailed through a photo to Dr. Hassall to get her input.

Here is my chest overall tonight:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi762.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx266%2FMouse5479%2Fcroppedweek3.jpg&hash=65f1a43e3f4f2078578ecf160281c334d62625a3)

This is the nipple I'm worried about (right nipple - grafted): WARNING - do not scroll down if you are easily nauseated as this is a bit graphic!


..............







..............



(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi762.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx266%2FMouse5479%2Fgraftweek3.jpg&hash=edab551d477002b98ac79b8af441b04763345b5e)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi762.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx266%2FMouse5479%2Fcloseupgraft3weeks.jpg&hash=830d9985817b5898388858cec7dd08707360229c)


Can anyone who has also had grafts tell me if this is somewhat normal for 3 weeks? 

Anyway, I hope that it survives and isn't dehiscence.  I really can't even fathom complications at this point - so positive thinking.

This is the last week (if nothing happens out of what's expected) I'll have to wear this waterproof dressing.  My first night sleeping with no shirt on!  No binder - nada.  I've been using Zonta cushions (that the ladies here make for women who've had mastectomies - my wife's workmate and our mutual friend who survived breast cancer has kindly donated hers to me) for sleeping and wearing between the seatbelt and my chest when I'm riding in cars.  They're really soft and comfy - and I may just keep sleeping with them even when I don't need them anymore  8)

I'm really glad I still have several weeks off work.  I've found that my arms are pretty weak and shaky still - not sure if it's due to not using them much for 3 weeks or not.  I'm also still feeling a bit tired and have to have a nap during the day, but not nearly as tired as I was even just last week.  Anyhoo - I'll keep updating.

Kreuzfidel your incisions are looking amazing, they're so thin and light already. I can't comment on the nipple graft, I'll let someone with experience chime in.

I'm finding it interesting in this thread how there's a variety of different techniques on show. Thank you all very much for sharing :)

I don't have much to report, everything is looking basically the same since the last picture. I am pretty much back to normal in terms of mobility, I haven't tried weight lifting yet but it's on the cards in the near future. All my usual day to day stuff is no problem, vacuuming, carrying my college stuff around, picking up the kidlet, etc. I am still aware of pressure on the area, if the little'un gives me an over vigorous hug or the cat walks on me while I'm asleep I feel a bit of a jolt, it's not pain though, just slightly uncomfortable pressure, I react more than is warranted because I'm used to being delicate :P Sleeping in any position is not a problem, including on my front if I put pillows under me. So things are ticking along nicely ^_^

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on February 12, 2014, 05:49:27 AM

I would be extremely concerned about that nipple graft. Yours looks like its dying.

Here's mine at 3 weeks.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe107%2Fscoobyses%2Fsurgery%2Fweek3-3.jpg&hash=fa53e0c3ef47fd0de746351ba1934839c0333683)

Kreuzfidel, I don't have experience in the chest surgery area to reference yet but I do have an interest in the medical field and I would also be very concerned with that nipple. It appears to have separated from the surrounding flesh. At three weeks, everything should have long been closed up, that doesn't look remotely healed. Does it hurt?

Quote from: Jeatyn on February 12, 2014, 07:21:32 AM
Kreuzfidel your incisions are looking amazing, they're so thin and light already. I can't comment on the nipple graft, I'll let someone with experience chime in.

Thank you, Jeatyn! 

Quote from: Frank on February 12, 2014, 04:53:20 PM
Kreuzfidel, I don't have experience in the chest surgery area to reference yet but I do have an interest in the medical field and I would also be very concerned with that nipple. It appears to have separated from the surrounding flesh. At three weeks, everything should have long been closed up, that doesn't look remotely healed. Does it hurt?

Yeah, I'm pretty worried.  I guess I'll just have to wait and see what the surgeon says when I hear back from her.

The thing is that it would normally be scabbed over, but she has me debriding (taking off the dead scabby stuff) every time I change the dressing - which ends up make it look like a bloody mess.  I wonder what would happen if we just left the scabs on it?  She also doesn't have me putting any kind of antibiotic ointment on it like I read about other guys doing.  If I don't hear back from her, I may go and see my GP since the surgeon is in Sydney.

I really don't want to fly back out to Sydney to have another surgery.  What happens if it dies?  Does it just scar over?

*Edit:  I forgot to say that it doesn't hurt.  It's still all relatively numb in that whole area.

I put on ointment but I didn't pick at the scab. Between 2 and 3 weeks is when it just started falling off in chucks every time I changed the dressing.

Quote from: Alexthecat on February 12, 2014, 03:07:10 PM
I would be extremely concerned about that nipple graft. Yours looks like its dying.

Not.  Helpful.   :police:

---------------------

Kreuzfidel, I can see how your nipple might look that way if she is having you continue to remove the scab.

It makes sense to send her an email, though.  Personally, I would ask her why you are supposed to pull off the scab all the time.  How is that good for healing, would be my question.  I would think that would delay healing and create scarring. 

Good luck.  Try not to stress.

ALSO...I think your chest looks great!  Great incisions as Jeatyn remarked!

Thanks for posting and keeping us updated.

--------------------

Jeatyn, good to hear from you too.  How many weeks are you out now?

Brett: I know! I was hoping I wouldn't have any sensation at all as I'm not fond of nipples in general and didn't want to worry about any extra pain there. I dunno what my surgeon did but I could feel them just a day or two after surgery. Great for some guys...terrible for me xD

Kreuzfidel: I'm with the others, that nipple doesn't look good! Please clean it up on and don't pick at the scab, I'd put some ointment on and bandage it up if I were you. I really hope you don't get an infection! :(

Thank you for the reassurance, Brett and timbuck2.

I'm honestly panicking a bit at the moment with all the talk about it dying.  I don't really know what to do.  I can fly back to Sydney if I have to, but my god that is something that we really can't afford right now - in terms of additional time off work and money  :(

*Edit:  I've been looking online at nipple grafts (mostly in women) and to be honest, a lot of them look similar if not worse than mine at 3 weeks.  It seems like at the 6 week point, they should be pale and scarred over, completely healed.  I'll take some comfort in that - it may just be a slow process.

Will keep updating.

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on February 12, 2014, 07:13:32 PM
Thank you for the reassurance, Brett and timbuck2.

I'm honestly panicking a bit at the moment with all the talk about it dying.  I don't really know what to do.  I can fly back to Sydney if I have to, but my god that is something that we really can't afford right now - in terms of additional time off work and money  :(

*Edit:  I've been looking online at nipple grafts (mostly in women) and to be honest, a lot of them look similar if not worse than mine at 3 weeks.  It seems like at the 6 week point, they should be pale and scarred over, completely healed.  I'll take some comfort in that - it may just be a slow process.

Will keep updating.

Yeah, man, what the hell do we know?  I mean, seriously.  We aren't surgeons and each of us have seen only so many nipples at week 3.  Everyone heals differently too.  Plus, the rate of healing and WHAT IT LOOKS like at each point of healing I bet is different based on what is being done to the nipple during recovery (you are to pull the scabs off, I was to keep them moist with a blob of antibiotic gel).  Different surgeons use different bandages.  If you were a binder afterwards or not is different.  There is just no way to compare this stuff I don't think when you are looking at different surgeons (and our individual healing).

I think the only way that you can really compare your nipple to anyone else's (to know if it is ok or not), is if you had pictures of a Hassall patient at 3 weeks.  That's it.

It's going to be ok.  If if something funky is going on, it will be alright.  Hassall carries a good reputation.  Hang tough until she gives you the all clear.

Kreuzfidel, it seems like the healing is a bit slow, but your nipples are NOT dying--the edge is nice and pink.

Thank you, Brett and SX0877.  That makes me feel heaps better  ;D

Quote from: SX0877 on February 12, 2014, 10:52:13 PM
Kreuzfidel, it seems like the healing is a bit slow, but your nipples are NOT dying--the edge is nice and pink.

Right, this is what I was thinking, too.

Quote from: Brett on February 13, 2014, 12:03:58 PM
Right, this is what I was thinking, too.

I agree. Someone asked Dr G about how you would know if a graft was dying and he said basically it turns black. So this still looks like tissue, also wondering re: the idea of pulling the scab off. I wonder if this was EXACTLY what she meant. Might mean to kind of help it along if it were already coming off. But looks like you might be reinjuring (or injuring) it.

--Jay

Day three for me! Woke up feeling great. Having trouble sleeping a bit, but only because I have to sleep upright. I'm a teeny bit sore today but nothing intolerable. Not even sure I need a Norco today... I'll probably just take a Tylenol or a Celebrex. :)

Quote from: NathanExplosion on February 14, 2014, 11:39:15 AM
Day three for me! Woke up feeling great. Having trouble sleeping a bit, but only because I have to sleep upright. I'm a teeny bit sore today but nothing intolerable. Not even sure I need a Norco today... I'll probably just take a Tylenol or a Celebrex. :)

Well I never even took Vicodin, which is more the strength of Norco, I'd imagine. Know a lot of guys who only took 1-5 Vicodins. It was more uncomfortable than painful really, and not a lot you can do about being uncomfortable, sorry to say, but to realize that this is really time limited.

--Jay

Quote from: NathanExplosion on February 14, 2014, 11:39:15 AM
Day three for me! Woke up feeling great. Having trouble sleeping a bit, but only because I have to sleep upright. I'm a teeny bit sore today but nothing intolerable. Not even sure I need a Norco today... I'll probably just take a Tylenol or a Celebrex. :)

Be careful with sleeping upright. I got a power lift recliner chair and it caused me severe pain in my lower back. It hurt worse than the surgery and I ended up taking pain pills for my back rather than my chest.

Quote from: aleon515 on February 14, 2014, 12:54:17 PM
Well I never even took Vicodin, which is more the strength of Norco, I'd imagine. Know a lot of guys who only took 1-5 Vicodins. It was more uncomfortable than painful really, and not a lot you can do about being uncomfortable, sorry to say, but to realize that this is really time limited.

--Jay

Yeah, honestly, the only real discomfort I have is the tightness of the bandages... and the fact that I can feel fluid moving in my chest is really almost nauseating, but I guess normal considering I don't have drains. Other than that I feel really good today.

Is it weird that surgery also seems to have cured my allergies for the most part?? I can breathe through my nose! That's a first!

Will definitely be careful about my back. So far the only real discomfort in sleeping upright has been my neck... and the fact that I'm a side sleeper and I can't get comfortable on my back all night!

Has anyone else had an issue with bandages giving them blisters? I just noticed I have a little blister on my tummy, underneath some sticky bandage/medical tape. It's small and nowhere near my incisions and doesn't looked infected or anything, just a little blister where it looks like the tape has been pulling at my skin. Is that normal?

Quote from: NathanExplosion on February 14, 2014, 02:28:59 PM
Has anyone else had an issue with bandages giving them blisters? I just noticed I have a little blister on my tummy, underneath some sticky bandage/medical tape. It's small and nowhere near my incisions and doesn't looked infected or anything, just a little blister where it looks like the tape has been pulling at my skin. Is that normal?

I've not had surgery yet so I can't comment, but perhaps you could put a large plaster/bandaid over where its blistering to stop the tape pulling at it.

Quote from: lxndr on February 14, 2014, 04:47:36 PM
I've not had surgery yet so I can't comment, but perhaps you could put a large plaster/bandaid over where its blistering to stop the tape pulling at it.

I think that would work (though you will probably then get irritation from the band aids/plasters. But anyway it's caused by rubbing no doubt.

Just an uncomfortable thing, but you just had surgery. Not supposed to be a walk in the park.

--Jay

Quote from: NathanExplosion on February 14, 2014, 02:28:59 PM
Has anyone else had an issue with bandages giving them blisters? I just noticed I have a little blister on my tummy, underneath some sticky bandage/medical tape. It's small and nowhere near my incisions and doesn't looked infected or anything, just a little blister where it looks like the tape has been pulling at my skin. Is that normal?

I had a blister underneath the tube on the right side where my drain was rubbing against my skin - I haven't had any blisters with tape or anything - just general skin discomfort from the waterproof bandages.

Hey I've been posting on tumblr as I go into a lot of detail so if anyone wants to read detailed daily posts check out my tumblr. http://thegoodbadandtransition.tumblr.com/ (http://thegoodbadandtransition.tumblr.com/)

Quote from: anibioman on February 15, 2014, 01:44:49 AM
Hey I've been posting on tumblr as I go into a lot of detail so if anyone wants to read detailed daily posts check out my tumblr. http://thegoodbadandtransition.tumblr.com/ (http://thegoodbadandtransition.tumblr.com/)

Hey, looking great, man! 

For the purposes of the thread (future readers), would you be open to posting one of those photos directly onto this thread (rather than a link)?  If so, please also tell us how many days post op the picture is and the name of surgeon.  We are trying to make this thread a "one stop shop" for a person looking for photos and recovery updates. 

Are you having any problems with your recovery?  Anything unusual from what you have heard others have experienced?

Thanks for posting on this thread!

Nathan and/or FB,

How about telling us a bit about the healing process for your surgery.  I remember you mentioned your surgeon is Dr. Jeb Horowitz.  I looked at his site and didn't see anything about top surgery.  Is this something he typically does?  I am curious about his background and how you found him.  Also how about you tell us his protocol.  Could you give us a summary on the bandages you have on, if you have drains, did you have free nipple grafts assuming you had double incision, how long you will have to wear a binder after the bandages are removed if at all, when is your pre-op appt, etc.  (all the good stuff).  I know you have mentioned things here and there, but a summary would be helpful.

If you have pictures, even better!  Congrats again, guys!

So the boyfriend and I are four and three days along respectively. We developed this weird wet cough. It doesn't hurt at all but it's there. Is it common to have after surgery?

Quote from: Brett on February 15, 2014, 12:27:58 PM
Nathan and/or FB,

How about telling us a bit about the healing process for your surgery.  I remember you mentioned your surgeon is Dr. Jeb Horowitz.  I looked at his site and didn't see anything about top surgery.  Is this something he typically does?  I am curious about his background and how you found him.  Also how about you tell us his protocol.  Could you give us a summary on the bandages you have on, if you have drains, did you have free nipple grafts assuming you had double incision, how long you will have to wear a binder after the bandages are removed if at all, when is your pre-op appt, etc.  (all the good stuff).  I know you have mentioned things here and there, but a summary would be helpful.

If you have pictures, even better!  Congrats again, guys!

Whoops I totally didnt see this! Ive been using my phone(hence all my typos) so...I would be happy to divulge healing process and info!

Dr.Horowitz doesnt have anything about this particular procedure on his site, but I do know he's worked with transgender men before. Someone from this forum actually recommended them. I was a bit iffy about Dr.Horowitz at first, because he didn't have any pictures available of this procedure. During the consultation, which was in a lovely office with lovely staff, all my worries were quelled. He knew that I was going to a male chest, and went through every detail about the surgery and why he would make incisions where he planned to make them. I know he has worked with trans patients before, but I don't know that he's ever done this particular surgery. He knew the male chest well and seemed to have done this before. Though I have not been able to see either my nor my boyfriend's chest (we are in tight bandages i will mention more of that later) i am very confident in his work. My boy says he feels great, and he has less foam glued to him than I do and i can tell it is very flat, but not awkwardly so. I will post pictures for you guys.

Dr.Horowitz has been doing surgery since the 80s, and he also is the head of a foundation that helps underprivileged children in third world countries by surgically repairing things like cleft pallets. I read the entire brochure that was in his office. He is very very kind, he expressed many many apologies that he wouldn't be able to do the procedure that he does (purse string) that leaves very minimal scars. It didnt feel fake or anything, he was very genuinely sorry that we would have scarring. He doesn't require a letter, but I feel like he prefers the person going in for the procedure to be on hormones. His protocol is easy, you go in for a consultation and then you pay $500 down to schedule your appointment any time you can. They bent over backwards to make sure we had the surgery when we wanted to have it because we had a tricky financial situation. You have a pre op a week before surgery, they give you everything you need (TED hose, peroxide, anti biotic ointment and some herbal things to help) and go over the healing process with you step by step.

The original plan was to have a compression vest on and no bandages, however the woman who sized us didnt take into account we would have...ahem...less flesh on our chests. No big deal, though. They bandaged us up with a layer of foam, medical tape and a compression ace bandage. They will be coming off next friday. Dr.Horowitz explained that he felt drains were unnecessary, because even patients with drains have fluid that doesnt come out and they're fine. Because of the lack of drains, i think, we have to sleep upright in a reclined position for a week. It is pretty hellish, but not unbearable. We did have nipple grafts, he explained in great detail about the procedure for that and why they had to be removed and put back on at all.

The binder will be worn for six weeks, Boyfriend seems to think that after a while you only have to wear it to bed. I'm not sure about this, we will ask at our one week post op appointment. The bandages are stuck to us with something i believe to be medical adhesive. Occasionally you can feel fluid moving around and its really gross, but we both prefer it over drains. We've been told to spongebathe until they come off.

I'm three days along, boyfriend is four, and we are both feeling pretty okay. I took Tylenol instead of norco today, as the pain wasnt so much that i needed the stronger stuff.  we are both happy to answer questions about everything. Like I said, all my worries were quelled when I met the surgeon. He at the very least did his research, because he explained how a lot of surgeons dont seem to know where the proper placement of a male nipple is, then explained to us where it should go.

Here are some pictures, sorry for the blurry one ill take a better one when im not so sleepy:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-06gHHs6pluA/Uv6rVZB_1WI/AAAAAAAABtc/sxCDZT62CTE/w546-h577-no/IMAG0048.jpg) Me, all that lumpyness you see is foam i swear
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-X5FaWcgQo3c/UvxhrlDrN_I/AAAAAAAABtU/6pUeQ3u5KLQ/w444-h577-no/IMAG0045.jpg) The boy, he has less foam and it looks AWESOME.

Hey, FB, thanks for all the information.  Garramone uses an ace bandage.  I am assuming you will get a binder to use rather than the ace when you go to post op?  The foam part is interesting, I haven't know of that before.  I would think it would make the bandage feel less tight, maybe not though.

Most guys sleep sitting up with or without drains.  I believe Garramone changed to saying you could sleep on your back too, but everyone I know sleeps sitting up or in a recliner.  I slept sitting up for 3 weeks, just because it was more comfortable.  It was at least 6 weeks until I could roll to my side without pain/discomfort.  Gosh, it seems so long ago now even though it has only been 4 months!

It is kind of neat that you guys are his (what it appears to be ), first double incision surgeries.  I am very interested in seeing the results.  Did he measure your chest and mark where he planned to put the nipples?  I noticed on his site he said he did gynecomastia, so he does work with male contouring regularly then.  The moving around of fluid is interesting.  I have never heard someone who had no drains talk about that happening, but it makes total sense that is what it would be.

Did they call you by your preferred names/pronouns?  What did he give you peroxide for?  What were the herbal meds?  Arnica?

I know, lots of questions!  I am a curious fellow!  ha

Quote from: Brett on February 15, 2014, 04:27:02 PM
Hey, FB, thanks for all the information.  Garramone uses an ace bandage.  I am assuming you will get a binder to use rather than the ace when you go to post op?  The foam part is interesting, I haven't know of that before.  I would think it would make the bandage feel less tight, maybe not though.

Most guys sleep sitting up with or without drains.  I believe Garramone changed to saying you could sleep on your back too, but everyone I know sleeps sitting up or in a recliner.  I slept sitting up for 3 weeks, just because it was more comfortable.  It was at least 6 weeks until I could roll to my side without pain/discomfort.  Gosh, it seems so long ago now even though it has only been 4 months!

It is kind of neat that you guys are his (what it appears to be ), first double incision surgeries.  I am very interested in seeing the results.  Did he measure your chest and mark where he planned to put the nipples?  I noticed on his site he said he did gynecomastia, so he does work with male contouring regularly then.  The moving around of fluid is interesting.  I have never heard someone who had no drains talk about that happening, but it makes total sense that is what it would be.

Did they call you by your preferred names/pronouns?  What did he give you peroxide for?  What were the herbal meds?  Arnica?

I know, lots of questions!  I am a curious fellow!  ha

Hi Brett! FB went to sleep (thank goodness, our cat has been keeping us up all night trying to jump on us and/or screaming at the door when we lock him out... poor thing is used to cuddling) so I'll fill in! No worries on all the questions, we're happy to answer. :)

I assume the foam is for comfort. It's a little itchy, but I imagine it feels a lot better than the ace bandage would against our skin. Not sure why FB has so much more foam than I do though - maybe because he's so much skinnier, I have a bit of my own padding, LOL. They are giving us compression vests at post op, yay! It sounds like it will be much comfier than all of these bandages and foam.

Dr. Horowitz was very thorough. He measured a lot of places more than once just to double check, and watching him mark where the incisions would be and where he would liposuction was very interesting. He marked exactly where he would be cutting, exactly where he would liposuction (he suctioned the front between the breasts, and a lot on the sides to make sure there would be no dog ears). I don't think he marked where he would put the nipples, but he went through every step of the male contouring with us. His goal was to get it flat and male-shaped in all one surgery.

Apparently the fluid that's moving around just gets absorbed by the body. I have no idea if this is the case, but I have to pee practically every ten minutes, and I wonder if it's not some of the absorbed fluid? That seems odd, but maybe. I'm especially "squishy sounding" today... it's really gross but apparently normal!

The surgeon and his assistants were fantastic about using preferred name and pronouns. The nurses at the surgical center misgendered me a lot  at first - however, I don't really blame them, because they didn't know it was transgender surgery. All they had was paperwork labeled as a "bilateral breast reduction" with my legal name and sex on it. As soon as Dr. Horowitz came in and began using the correct name and pronouns, the nurses caught on. They were very nice and I was too sleepy to politely correct them, but I'm sure if I had, it would've been fine.

The peroxide is just for gently cleaning the incisions once we have our bandages off. He said to clean them with 50% peroxide and 50% water. Arnica was one of the herbal meds, and the other was bromelain - however, I did not take the bromelain and neither did FB. It said not to take it if you are allergic to flour (I am gluten intolerant) and the top ingredient was gelatin, which makes FB sick. They said it was no big deal to not take it, that it just promoted healing. They said eating pineapple would be a good substitute!

I have very little pain today, just discomfort from the bandages. Can't WAIT to get these things off!

Quote from: FlightyBrood on February 15, 2014, 03:13:54 PM
So the boyfriend and I are four and three days along respectively. We developed this weird wet cough. It doesn't hurt at all but it's there. Is it common to have after surgery?

I have a suspicion that this may be due to the intubation (tube down your throat).  I also had this little cough for a few days, then it went away.  Otherwise, it may be a remnant of the bug you had earlier - and maybe the bf is getting it, too.

Quote from: BrettMost guys sleep sitting up with or without drains.  I believe Garramone changed to saying you could sleep on your back too, but everyone I know sleeps sitting up or in a recliner.  I slept sitting up for 3 weeks, just because it was more comfortable.  It was at least 6 weeks until I could roll to my side without pain/discomfort.  Gosh, it seems so long ago now even though it has only been 4 months!

HOLY SMOKES.  I could never have slept on my back or sitting up for longer than I did!  I think I managed three days flat on my back and was then able to (carefully) sleep tilted towards the side a bit with some pillows.  I'm just over 3 weeks now and am finally able to sleep on my sides again - thank the gods!  I really long for the day when I can have a good ole' belly sleep...*sigh*

Washed my hair today. Took a lot out of me, more than I expected. Mum came for a visit and brought the boy and I some (gluten free) cupcakes. Tired, way tired...but today I didn't take any of the strong pills, just two extra strength Tylenol. I feel fine pain wise, I'm developing a rash along the edge of my bandages...anything I could do to quell that? Maybe I'll call the Dr Monday cause it's pretty unbearable.

Thanks, Nathan!

Quote from: FlightyBrood on February 15, 2014, 08:19:58 PM
Washed my hair today. Took a lot out of me, more than I expected. Mum came for a visit and brought the boy and I some (gluten free) cupcakes. Tired, way tired...but today I didn't take any of the strong pills, just two extra strength Tylenol. I feel fine pain wise, I'm developing a rash along the edge of my bandages...anything I could do to quell that? Maybe I'll call the Dr Monday cause it's pretty unbearable.

Yes, didn't wash my hair for a week. I was smart and got a VERY short cut. It was funny as I thought it actually got worse and then better so that it kind of looked good after 4 days or so. Yes it's tiring to do stuff. Rash around bandages, well you could try some cortisone cream, which is what Dr G recommended. Also take Benadryl, which is going to tire you out. I started taking Zyrtec before the surgery, but that MIGHT work, and doesn't have the grogginess factor. I hate that feeling actually.

--Jay

10 Week (in two days) Update

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1130.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm528%2FJeatyn%2FWP_001284_zpsc3807531.jpg&hash=e00195d2540c1bca0e335dd1c83d22a77e5b8dbb)

Not much change, just pink rather than red scars and everything is 100% sealed up.

I'd say I'm about 95% back to normal in terms of mobility like I mentioned in the other mini update. At this point I feel physically ready to start working out again, but my work schedule is so crammed right now I really just wanna get that all out of the way first before I commit to any sort of workout regime. The backlog of assignments and extensions and clients I have at the moment seems to have no end xD I lost a lot of time because the meds for my infection made me really sick, which wasn't anticipated at all. The pain killers also didn't help my mental capacity ::)

Luckily, it's half term. I got a ton of stuff done last week, and will do the same this week coming. Hopefully I'll be back on track by the time I go back.

I see my surgeon at some point in April, I forget when. I know he's going to suggest a revision. I'm interested to see what he'll say when I tell him I'd rather see what I can do myself with exercise and then consider a revision later down the line if I feel I need one. I don't know if the NHS works that way, but we'll see. If not, then I probably won't ever get a revision.

I also got a letter to say I have an appointment at the gender clinic at the end of March. I haven't seen them in almost 2 years, I guess they want to ask how I feel about my surgery, gonna be a short appointment :P "So how do you feel?" "fantastic thanks!" what else is there to say?

Quote from: Jeatyn on February 16, 2014, 07:58:49 AM
10 Week (in two days) Update

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1130.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm528%2FJeatyn%2FWP_001284_zpsc3807531.jpg&hash=e00195d2540c1bca0e335dd1c83d22a77e5b8dbb)

Not much change, just pink rather than red scars and everything is 100% sealed up.

I'd say I'm about 95% back to normal in terms of mobility like I mentioned in the other mini update. At this point I feel physically ready to start working out again, but my work schedule is so crammed right now I really just wanna get that all out of the way first before I commit to any sort of workout regime. The backlog of assignments and extensions and clients I have at the moment seems to have no end xD I lost a lot of time because the meds for my infection made me really sick, which wasn't anticipated at all. The pain killers also didn't help my mental capacity ::)

Luckily, it's half term. I got a ton of stuff done last week, and will do the same this week coming. Hopefully I'll be back on track by the time I go back.

I see my surgeon at some point in April, I forget when. I know he's going to suggest a revision. I'm interested to see what he'll say when I tell him I'd rather see what I can do myself with exercise and then consider a revision later down the line if I feel I need one. I don't know if the NHS works that way, but we'll see. If not, then I probably won't ever get a revision.

I also got a letter to say I have an appointment at the gender clinic at the end of March. I haven't seen them in almost 2 years, I guess they want to ask how I feel about my surgery, gonna be a short appointment :P "So how do you feel?" "fantastic thanks!" what else is there to say?

Hey, Jeatyn, thanks for posting a picture.  I was wondering how you were getting along.  Anyone heard anything from Jack?

Your lines look really good.  I see a significant lightening of the scars already.  You haven't talked scar treatment, so I assume you haven't been using anything.  I am aware you have a full life with school and a toddler, so I am thinking it would be low on your list.

I was wondering if you could have someone else take a picture of your chest.  I would like to see what your chest looks like when your are along side your body.

Why would your surgeon think you need a revision?

Thanks for checking in!

ETA: I was just looking back through the thread and saw your 7 week picture.  Such a big jump in healing in the last 3 weeks.  Glad you didn't wait until later to post.

Wow Jeatyn, you look AWESOME. The shaping is excellent. Don't see why you'd need a revision unless you're terribly worried about dog ears, which aren't even that noticeable. Not sure how it works - would working out flatten them out?

Checking in on day five... five days to go til our post op. Sleeping is getting more difficult, especially for the poor boyfriend, who is UNBEARABLY itchy under his bandages. I think he finally managed to knock out after a benadryl and he's currently sleeping soundly. Trying to make ZERO noise because I know he needs the sleep. :(

Think we're going to renew WoW subscriptions today to pass the time. The person we've had staying with us is leaving today, but I think we're good to go on our own now.

Quote from: Jeatyn on February 16, 2014, 07:58:49 AM
10 Week (in two days) Update

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1130.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm528%2FJeatyn%2FWP_001284_zpsc3807531.jpg&hash=e00195d2540c1bca0e335dd1c83d22a77e5b8dbb)

Not much change, just pink rather than red scars and everything is 100% sealed up.

I'd say I'm about 95% back to normal in terms of mobility like I mentioned in the other mini update. At this point I feel physically ready to start working out again, but my work schedule is so crammed right now I really just wanna get that all out of the way first before I commit to any sort of workout regime. The backlog of assignments and extensions and clients I have at the moment seems to have no end xD I lost a lot of time because the meds for my infection made me really sick, which wasn't anticipated at all. The pain killers also didn't help my mental capacity ::)

Luckily, it's half term. I got a ton of stuff done last week, and will do the same this week coming. Hopefully I'll be back on track by the time I go back.

I see my surgeon at some point in April, I forget when. I know he's going to suggest a revision. I'm interested to see what he'll say when I tell him I'd rather see what I can do myself with exercise and then consider a revision later down the line if I feel I need one. I don't know if the NHS works that way, but we'll see. If not, then I probably won't ever get a revision.

I also got a letter to say I have an appointment at the gender clinic at the end of March. I haven't seen them in almost 2 years, I guess they want to ask how I feel about my surgery, gonna be a short appointment :P "So how do you feel?" "fantastic thanks!" what else is there to say?

Looking good!

Hi everyone, I'm new here and thought I ought to post in order to provide some useful information that I never really read before my top surgery..

I'm now 17 days post-op and doing alright. My procedure was conducted by Dr. Morehouse and his wonderful staff in Albuquerque, New Mexico. I can't say much about the doctor, as he's a little rushed but good at what he does. I chose not to go with nipples due to my body not having a good ability to heal (I have no idea why, it's just always been this way. It's rejected every piercing, modification, treatment, but tattoos). I'm getting them tattooed on soon or just getting a large piece on my chest later.

As of 17 days, the original tape directly over my scars has yet to come off due to my fear of showering throughout this entire process. i've had plenty of sponge baths, and have been grateful for help from my partner. A lot of the complication that arose from my surgery was my initial bad reaction to the effects of anesthesia and major nausea that developed from this and lasted on for quite a while due to the Scope Patch that was put on me to stop the nausea. It actually caused worse nausea once taken off (mainly due to it deriving from the plant called Devil's Breath, which is used controversially in some medicine, but also known as a date-rape plant in some countries, and is very poisonous). I suffered for many late nights, crying from terrible bouts of nausea and losing all sense of reality/perception/everything. I'm now on a tapering regimen of Ondansetron and Meclazine. This regimen has saved me from nausea, and now the worst is over- I'm very grateful. I also had pain from constipation, but worked through that easily after starting a 5 day regimen of putting a serving of Miralax in each cup of water that I drank- not to exceed 4 servings in a day! (Personal regimen: 5 servings day 1, 3 servings day2, 2 servings day3, 2 servings day 4, 1 on day5, but it's debateable if it was actually needed at this point). Taking a lot isn't detrimental to health, but it will give you diarrhea, which to me was a god-send at the moment, and the few days that it lasted afterward, but this is something of a person-by-person preference. Constipation doesn't bother many, but it was painful for me.
I had a hematoma on my right side and, as a result, my right-side drain needed to stay in for 12 days. This was highly annoying, but didn't hurt me much. The drain on my left-side caused immense pain, and that was mainly due to it not having anything to drain. It was taken out a little late and that ordeal was extremely painful for me. But, the nurses that work with Dr. Morehouse stayed with me for hours helping me when they didn't need to, and that has meant the world to me. His staff is really five stars. At 15 days, I had a needle stuck in me to drain some blood (30cc's!) left over in my right side, and have another appointment for 2 days from now, and will most likely have some taken out then, too. I thought that the draining of the blood through a needle was going to be painful, but with all of the pain that I have been through, it was nothing at all. I've heard of the surgeons who don't use drains after surgery, and if I had had the money at the time, would have went that way for surgery.
What I've been surprised most about is the pain of the nerves in my chest. i looked it up, and since these nerves received trauma and were stretched, I now have to re-train them to know that a touch isn't causing pain. I've been using a good cream called Amazing Cream (I bought it in a local pharmacy, for muscle pains, and all-over aches, but it's offered elsewhere and online I'm sure). My scars don't hurt, largely, and I've been instructed by my surgeon to massage them, even though it will be painful. He said the harder I massage them, the more flat and non-noticeable they will be. So, I've been rubbing them, and it doesn't hurt much, which is awesome, but I still have yet to see any scars, since my original taping has yet to come off or be pulled off by me.
I'm wearing a light chest binder that's quite comfortable; even if it rides up, it doesn't both me too much.
I'm no longer taking pain meds regularly (stopped on day 11; Oxycodone was prescribed to me), yet still need one or two small 5mg's at night right around 6pm, as my body starts hurting at that time and I have to slow down a lot.

I will keep updating, and add pictures once my taping comes off.

Overall, if you're reading this before your surgery, I would suggest you know how your body responds to certain medications such as morphine and the like, as the overwhelming nausea was by far the worst part of the post-op recovery for me.

Thanks for the info Jackop! I wish I knew how my body would react to this tape. I now have two tummy blisters that are very itchy and annoying! They're small and easy to manage, but wow they make me want to rip my hair out!

Wow, Jackop, you have really had a rough go of it.  Sorry it has been so tough for you.  I hope things only continue to improve.

Be careful about that tape on your chest.  I thought that it wasn't good for us to have it on for such a long period of time?  I guess when you see your surgeon in two days he will mention this if it is a problem.

Yes, it would be great if you posted pics, when you are ready.

Hang in there and thanks for adding to the thread!

Quote from: Brett on February 16, 2014, 07:01:46 PM
Wow, Jackop, you have really had a rough go of it.  Sorry it has been so tough for you.  I hope things only continue to improve.

Be careful about that tape on your chest.  I thought that it wasn't good for us to have it on for such a long period of time?  I guess when you see your surgeon in two days he will mention this if it is a problem.

Yes, it would be great if you posted pics, when you are ready.

Hang in there and thanks for adding to the thread!

It is like sticky gauze so I am not really sure. It's also underneath my foam and ace bandage... and unfortunately we don't see him for another five, yuck! Ten days total for me.

Quote from: NathanExplosion on February 16, 2014, 07:20:00 PM
It is like sticky gauze so I am not really sure. It's also underneath my foam and ace bandage... and unfortunately we don't see him for another five, yuck! Ten days total for me.

Hey, Nathan!  I was actually talking to Jackop.

Quote from: Brett on February 16, 2014, 07:29:10 PM
Hey, Nathan!  I was actually talking to Jackop.

Whoops, my bad!

Quote from: Jackop on February 16, 2014, 03:50:13 PM
I'm now 17 days post-op and doing alright. My procedure was conducted by Dr. Morehouse and his wonderful staff in Albuquerque, New Mexico....

As of 17 days, the original tape directly over my scars has yet to come off due to my fear of showering throughout this entire process. i've had plenty of sponge baths, and have been grateful for help from my partner. A lot of the complication that arose from my surgery was my initial bad reaction to the effects of anesthesia and major nausea that developed from this and lasted on for quite a while due to the Scope Patch that was put on me to stop the nausea. It actually caused worse nausea once taken off ....

I had a hematoma on my right side and, as a result, my right-side drain needed to stay in for 12 days.
Overall, if you're reading this before your surgery, I would suggest you know how your body responds to certain medications such as morphine and the like, as the overwhelming nausea was by far the worst part of the post-op recovery for me.

Hey Albuquerque! I'm in ABQ too, and know who Dr. Morehouse is, several of the local guys have been to him. (Though I went to Dr Garramone.) I wonder if I know you? We have a very great support group here run by the Transgender Resource Center of NM. If you are not familiar check out: http://www.tgrcnm.org/

The Scope patch can be nasty stuff!! I have used it on boat trips and cut it in half (which you are actually not supposed to do, but it is strong stuff!). Anesthesia can have bad effects on some people, and they think that post-anesthesia depression might be caused by it sometimes. Didn't have these problems but I know people who did.
Wow, oxycodone is powerful stuff-- be careful!! Sorry about the complications and hope you are on the road to recovery.

I think 2-3 week were most unpleasant for me, so hang in there.


--Jay

Day 6 for me and 5 for FB. He started feeling very weak last night. Drinking lots of water helped, and we managed to get some sleep, but he's still weak today. Got in contact with the surgeon and he seems to think he's just a bit dehydrated and exhausted from not sleeping and suggested Gatorade... family is bringing some over and we'll keep updated and see if that helps. I'm just being an over worrisome boyfriend but this kid's gonna give me a heart attack!

Mom brought Gatorade and forced us to get up and go for a short walk. The surgeon apparently told her, but not US, that we need to make sure we stay fairly active because laying around in bed can make us feel sick. Whoops! FB feels a lot better now but damn these bandages are itching both of us.

Hey guys, FB is having trouble eating today. He gets nauseous every time he eats. Taking nausea pills helps, but as soon as he starts eating again, he feels sick. We've tried soup, solid food, yogurt, etc. Any advice on getting him to eat something? It's making him feel awful because he's barely eaten all day.

I would suggest something like Jelly (called Jell-O in America).  Maybe upgrade to fruit once he's feeling better.  Is he taking his pain meds?  I think post-surgical nausea is pretty common, but I'm not sure if it's all that common this long after surgery.  If it continues, speak to your doctor.

Have you guys tried liquid meal replacer? Mashed potatoes? Heck even ice cream or frozen juice? Pudding? Crackers of some kind that he can nibble on slowly? I remember from another post that he's sensitive to gelatin so jello is probably out for him unfortunately. Just something to get his stomach going. Once he starts to feel ill tell him to pause in his eating for a few minutes (10-15mins in my case) and then start again. Maybe ask the doctor if it's safe to take an antacid? I know I was extremely nauseated after my surgery, it just finally is mostly gone in fact, but I have rather exaggerated reactions to medications at times (pain meds for example and anesthesia...yeah no fun). The only thing that has worked for me ever for the nausea is a strong dose of anti nausea medication every 4-6 hrs....and boy did I regret it if I messed up the dose time. They also had to put me on a medication for acid reflux and on for stomach ulcers....a little unorthodox but it did the trick. Tell FB to feel better and take care of yourself too Nathan. Good luck you guys.

Oddly, he hasn't had any pain meds today so we don't really know what's causing the nausea besides him being dehydrated last night. You're right about the gelatin allergy (you're good!) but he did manage to finish a pudding cup earlier. He's been eating a little here and there so he's not starving or anything, but the poor thing feels hungry and then gets nauseous when he eats! He's slowly drinking some Ensure now and it seems to be helping and keeping the nausea away.

Most of all I think he just needs a good night sleep, so he's trying to get enough food in him that he can sleep comfortably. Neither of us have really had a good night's sleep in days. I talked to the surgeon and he said to get a good night's sleep and see if the nausea is better in the morning, otherwise he will prescribe something else.

Thanks guys!!

Quote from: NathanExplosion on February 17, 2014, 10:25:35 PM
Oddly, he hasn't had any pain meds today so we don't really know what's causing the nausea besides him being dehydrated last night. You're right about the gelatin allergy (you're good!) but he did manage to finish a pudding cup earlier. He's been eating a little here and there so he's not starving or anything, but the poor thing feels hungry and then gets nauseous when he eats! He's slowly drinking some Ensure now and it seems to be helping and keeping the nausea away.

Most of all I think he just needs a good night sleep, so he's trying to get enough food in him that he can sleep comfortably. Neither of us have really had a good night's sleep in days. I talked to the surgeon and he said to get a good night's sleep and see if the nausea is better in the morning, otherwise he will prescribe something else.

Thanks guys!!

Nathan, you guys are making a good choice with him drinking the Ensure.  As I was reading the post, I was planning on suggesting either that, or Boost.  He will get some nutrients, plus stay hydrated.  Good plan.  Tell the guy to hang in there from me!

No problem. If he's very nauseated you guys might use milk products with caution (my number one reactive food....group??? after surgeries, even on nausea meds). Bread like foods (even gluten free ones) can help to absorb the stomach acid a bit, which can lessen the upset stomach. Papaya is also a natural nausea aid. :) Fresh is best but we keep the pills on hand too. Oh and don't forget to keep track of the....stool situation. Constipation can cause nausea with me and I always feel better after that's been taken care of. Prunes usually do the trick for me or ask your doctor what he recommends if he hasn't already recommended something.

I agree, sleep is the best medicine. Just make sure to eat something if you guys are still taking pain meds, even over the counters. Some crackers or a slice of bread. It helps protect your stomach lining.

Do you guys usually take a multi vitamin of some kind? That might also help some. And don't forget to move around and get the circulation moving and the digestive tract, your stomach needs the movement to stay "awake". I remember walking the hospital halls very quickly after my hysterectomy to "wake up" my digestive tract and keep things moving. They made me walk every 4 hours until I had a movement and honestly the more I walked the better I felt. After this surgery I just wandered around the house for 10-15mins at a time and then went back to recline in bed or in the living room.

Drag a cat toy around to entertain your cat maybe? A length of yarn perhaps? (I remember one of you saying your cat won't let you sleep.) A laser pointer to wear him down? I have a small poodle who sleeps with me and my sister has one too so I sleep with a pillow laying over my chest and stomach to provide a...."pounce buffer". It has saved many could have been painful moments.

Oh I forgot to add rice, good old plain rice. It's very bland but it may be just what he needs. Easy to fix too and it comes in microwave cups. The minute rice kind. And once his stomach is less upset you can add more things to the rice. I did the same thing after my first kidney surgery. Fixed a big bowl of rice and reheated it in small portions when I got hungry, slowly adding a bit of seasoning and some veggies and chicken breast pieces once my stomach was ready for it.

Thank you so much Sebryn, that all sounds like awesome advice! Especially the "pounce buffer" pillow, LOL. The cat SEEMS to have gotten the hint that he can't walk on us now (maybe - he's a moron), but the pillow will at least let us rest a little easier. I think the "stool issue" might be a lot of why he was nauseous today. I'll spare you the details but that's been... relieved.

Meanwhile, I feel a little guilty because I feel AWESOME today. No pain, lots of energy, eating fine. I think I took all of the good feelings between us and left FB high and dry. Whoops.

Seriously, thank you guys so much for all the advice. This would have been a LOT more difficult without some advice from others who have gone through this.

Some of FB's seemingly slower recovery might be the hit his immune system took right before his surgery when he had the flu. He and I are in the same boat there I think. I'm recovering a tad slower and my surgeon confirmed that it could be the fact that I had the flu two weeks before my surgery date and had just recovered (thank you tamaflu) five days before the surgery. So I've been taking immune boosters and multi vitamins that have been cleared with my surgeon.

As for the cat....if he doesn't like water you might want to keep a squirt bottle on hand to keep him at bay to help you guys recover without being pounce upon. Or give him a catnip laced toy to take his frustrations out on?

And Nathan don't feel bad for feeling good. It just means you'll be able to help your guy out when he needs you. :)

Take it easy and tell FB not to worry, he'll feel better. Give it time, you guys haven't even reached the week marker. Honestly I haven't started to feel good until just the last two days (I'm three weeks post op on the 13th btw.) I still get tired and want to sleep a lot. I wasn't cleared to drive until Friday in fact, so I'm a bit behind most people in recovery, but that's okay. Everyone is different in recovery. :)

Quote from: Sebryn on February 17, 2014, 11:46:31 PM
Some of FB's seemingly slower recovery might be the hit his immune system took right before his surgery when he had the flu. He and I are in the same boat there I think. I'm recovering a tad slower and my surgeon confirmed that it could be the fact that I had the flu two weeks before my surgery date and had just recovered (thank you tamaflu) five days before the surgery. So I've been taking immune boosters and multi vitamins that have been cleared with my surgeon.

As for the cat....if he doesn't like water you might want to keep a squirt bottle on hand to keep him at bay to help you guys recover without being pounce upon. Or give him a catnip laced toy to take his frustrations out on?

And Nathan don't feel bad for feeling good. It just means you'll be able to help your guy out when he needs you. :)

Take it easy and tell FB not to worry, he'll feel better. Give it time, you guys haven't even reached the week marker. Honestly I haven't started to feel good until just the last two days (I'm three weeks post op on the 13th btw.) I still get tired and want to sleep a lot. I wasn't cleared to drive until Friday in fact, so I'm a bit behind most people in recovery, but that's okay. Everyone is different in recovery. :)

Excellent point about FB having been sick before, so immune system being down to begin with.  I agree with vitamins (vitamin C important) and immune boosters.  Eat clean, whole foods, stay away from processed stuff, if possible.  Salmon, walnuts, almonds, blueberries, homemade chicken soup, protein, are immune boosters.  Get his mom to bring you some healthy groceries.  Lots and lots of filtered water after the nausea goes away.  Take light walks to get the body moving.  He needs to sleep a lot too (with no cat interruptions!)

Obviously, all the above food is after he can eat.

Ginger candies or ginger chews for nausea.  His mom can get some at the pharmacy/grocery maybe.

Side note, the same directions are good for you, too!  :)

Hello, by the way, to the new people posting updates. I only have a few minutes spare here and there to post so forgive me for not addressing everyone individually.

Somebody beat me to it, but I was going to suggest ginger for the nausea, ginger biscuits/gingerbread works best for me. Anesthesia and pain meds in general always make me sick. I think it's awesome you guys are going through this together. That foam looks super uncomfortable, it'll feel awesome once it all comes off. I barely kept my compression tube on never mind bandages and padding xD I'm terrible

About scar treatment: I haven't been doing anything consistent. When I remember, I have E45 cream I massage all over my chest but that's about it :P

As for revisions, I assume he will mention the dog ears, and the fact one side has quite a bit more fat left in in than the other. The dog ears also seem to have fat in them - which is why I'd rather lose bodyfat overall and see how it looks then. My surgeon seemed pretty adamant in our pre-op consultations that he would like to do some cosmetic tweaking 6 months after my initial surgery to make my nipples shorter, correct dog ears and do some lipo. If I could afford the downtime, then sure, why not, it's free :P but I really don't want to be incapacitated again. The nipple thing I definitely don't think is necessary. The idea of having them shaved down doesn't appeal :D

I'd be interested in seeing pictures of the person who mentioned they opted to have no nipples at all. Hopefully your recovery starts to go a bit better, it'll all be worth it in the end :) I told my surgeon I would rather opt for no nipples than go for a two step procedure to save them - like you I plan on tattooing the entire area anyway so I wasn't worried about it. It turned out I got to keep them, so that was a bonus.


Edit: I got my partner to take a picture so you can see my chest in a more natural position

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1130.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm528%2FJeatyn%2FWP_001292_zps009782bc.jpg&hash=dfe65ba830693104cdd09b381ff3391d9ff9cb10)

Definitely a good point about FB having been sick. He went to sleep really early last night, and got interrupted a couple of times, but he never stayed awake too long. He's asleep now thank goodness and I'm going to let him sleep as long as he can! We finally gave up on sleeping completely elevated, but it's uncomfortable to sleep completely flat, too. I long for the day I can sleep on my side again...

I think I might make the trek (down the street, literally) to the grocery store and pick up some more Gatorade and get some ginger chews and what not. Thanks for that suggestion - I used to LOVE those ginger candies that came in the green wrappers from Trader Joe's.

As for me, I had my first nightmare about having my bandages off last night. That was not fun. My chest looked like some melted, mutant version of its former self. -shivers- At least I was sleeping deeply enough to dream!


Jeatyn, I definitely don't think nipple revisions are necessary, if any revisions at all! Your nipples look fantastic (which is such a weird thing to say out of context...) and I didn't notice any asymmetry in pictures.

hehe I complimented someone's nipples earlier in the thread and had the same thought :D

The beginning of recovery sucks because you're tired but unable to get comfortable and everything is so much effort. I can't believe I'm 10 weeks down already, it flies by don't worry!

How long until you get the bandages off? Though I'm not familiar with your surgeon I'm sure it won't be as you've pictured :P

Quote from: Jeatyn on February 18, 2014, 01:02:18 PM
hehe I complimented someone's nipples earlier in the thread and had the same thought :D

The beginning of recovery sucks because you're tired but unable to get comfortable and everything is so much effort. I can't believe I'm 10 weeks down already, it flies by don't worry!

How long until you get the bandages off? Though I'm not familiar with your surgeon I'm sure it won't be as you've pictured :P

Don't I know it! I tried a little too hard to sleep on my side last night and now my sides are sore. :P

This Friday, thank goodness. The closer we get to getting them off, the slower time passes, LOL.

First night of good sleep I get...and the cat jumps right on my chest. Luckily I caught him before he landed, and he just got a claw stuck in my bandages. Managed to get back to sleep after that, miraculously. My rampant insomnia that I always have doesn't help my rest needing situation. Feeling a bit better today.

Funny, the thing that kept me going is the feeling of how good going for our walks make me feel. When im up and around I feel fine, when I lay down I'm nausious and sick. Weird.

The Mythbusters did an episode on seasickness (well the nausea) remedies. Ginger worked the best of common remedies. Though seasickness itself is dizziness and not nausea, per se. I think Scope is a dizziness treatment, btw. Not sure how effective and safe it is after surgery. Side effects and warnings are quite serious (psychosis and so on).

--Jay

So we had a big "D'OH" moment and remembered that FB is slightly anemic... usually having a rare steak now and again was keeping it managed, but we kind of forgot about that when I started watching my cholesterol. I think with all of this healing and such, his iron levels just completely bottomed out. He's got all the symptoms, too - weakness, dizziness, fatigue, pallor, cranky, short of breath, and the biggest one that lead us to this conclusion is RESTLESS LEG SYNDROME. Poor kid runs a marathon in his sleep.

Picked up some iron supplements and some salmon for dinner. He's asleep again for now.

Glad to hear you think you found the missing link, Nathan!  Jeatyn, your chest looks better with every picture!  <high five>

Quote from: NathanExplosion on February 18, 2014, 10:55:20 AM
I long for the day I can sleep on my side again...

when I was in the hotel after my surgery I found it helpful to sleep on the couch rather then the bed, so if you have a couch available you can prop yourself on the back of the couch and lean part of your back against the back cushion so that way it kinda feels like you are on your side, obviously be careful and if it hurts don't do it.

Quote from: Brett on February 16, 2014, 07:01:46 PM
Wow, Jackop, you have really had a rough go of it.  Sorry it has been so tough for you.  I hope things only continue to improve.

Be careful about that tape on your chest.  I thought that it wasn't good for us to have it on for such a long period of time?  I guess when you see your surgeon in two days he will mention this if it is a problem.

Yes, it would be great if you posted pics, when you are ready.

Hang in there and thanks for adding to the thread!

Hi there!
I got back from the doctor's not too long ago, and he said the tape still being on is perfectly fine. They have started to peel and I've peeled some back to take a look and the scars look good! I was mainly keeping them on while my right side was healing up from the hematoma (and I'm just a little bit of a baby).
What Dr. Morehouse instructed was that once I take them off (which will be done soon now that I know all is well), just massage with Vitamin E oils, and press down on the scars, the harder I press and massage, the better they'll look in the end. Surprisingly, he only took 15cc of blood out today from the right side that was still swollen a bit from the hematoma (that's all he said was in there) and I'm looking much flatter, and feel so much better.
These last two days have been amazing with how fast I'm suddenly recovering! I was able to close my car door yesterday on my own without swinging it to gain momentum first, and that meant a lot to me.

Thanks for the support all.
I'll update soon and take pictures! Dr. Morehouse does such great work.

Quote from: aleon515 on February 17, 2014, 02:07:47 AM

Hey Albuquerque! I'm in ABQ too, and know who Dr. Morehouse is, several of the local guys have been to him. (Though I went to Dr Garramone.) I wonder if I know you? We have a very great support group here run by the Transgender Resource Center of NM. If you are not familiar check out: http://www.tgrcnm.org/

The Scope patch can be nasty stuff!! I have used it on boat trips and cut it in half (which you are actually not supposed to do, but it is strong stuff!). Anesthesia can have bad effects on some people, and they think that post-anesthesia depression might be caused by it sometimes. Didn't have these problems but I know people who did.
Wow, oxycodone is powerful stuff-- be careful!! Sorry about the complications and hope you are on the road to recovery.

I think 2-3 week were most unpleasant for me, so hang in there.


--Jay

Hey Jay!
We've met thrice before (I was really wondering why your picture looked so familiar to me!). Adrien and everyone at the Transgender Resource Center are amazing! I've been to two meetings there, and have gotten so much information from these great people. I've been volunteering lately at the LGBTQ Resource center on UNM campus, and hear very often about the TGRCNM!
Will you be at the next meeting, Jay? If so, I'll see you there. I'm going in this Thursday to deliver my old binders for the guys who need any!
My name is Jack, and I'm young (25). I don't know if you remember me!

Quote from: NathanExplosion on February 17, 2014, 08:41:01 PM
Hey guys, FB is having trouble eating today. He gets nauseous every time he eats. Taking nausea pills helps, but as soon as he starts eating again, he feels sick. We've tried soup, solid food, yogurt, etc. Any advice on getting him to eat something? It's making him feel awful because he's barely eaten all day.

I would suggest applesauce and yogurt. I survived for ten days off of those after surgery.
Good luck! I hope both of you are feeling better!

Quote from: Jackop on February 18, 2014, 07:24:30 PM
Hey Jay!
We've met thrice before (I was really wondering why your picture looked so familiar to me!). Adrien and everyone at the Transgender Resource Center are amazing! I've been to two meetings there, and have gotten so much information from these great people. I've been volunteering lately at the LGBTQ Resource center on UNM campus, and hear very often about the TGRCNM!
Will you be at the next meeting, Jay? If so, I'll see you there. I'm going in this Thursday to deliver my old binders for the guys who need any!
My name is Jack, and I'm young (25). I don't know if you remember me!

I'm thinking I know you too. But lots of new people. THere is no meeting this Thursday but I will be there the next one (the 6th I believe). The LGBT Resource Center is awesome as well.


--Jay

I was feeling kind of woozy today, it honestly feels like I'm drunk or something...It's hard to keep my head up. Other than that, totally fine.

I was suddenly starving to death, and i really REALLY wanted french fries. Luckily we had some frozen ones, and we cooked them up and I ate a whole plate. I feel totally fine! The only thing is the weird dizziness.

Day after tomarrow is the big day! Couldnt come faster. Will post pictures.

Quote from: FlightyBrood on February 19, 2014, 04:41:38 PM
I was feeling kind of woozy today, it honestly feels like I'm drunk or something...It's hard to keep my head up.

Quote from: FlightyBrood on February 19, 2014, 04:41:38 PM
I feel totally fine! The only thing is the weird dizziness.

Could be side effects for the pain medication and/or the meds for muscle spasms if you got any. Certain anti nausea medications do the same thing to me. If you're taking Benadryl the "drunken stupor" feeling is exactly what it does to me. And remember that even after you stop medications they still remain in your system a certain amount of time, just like T.

Glad you're feeling better. :)

Quote from: Sebryn on February 19, 2014, 08:53:56 PM
Could be side effects for the pain medication and/or the meds for muscle spasms if you got any. Certain anti nausea medications do the same thing to me. If you're taking Benadryl the "drunken stupor" feeling is exactly what it does to me. And remember that even after you stop medications they still remain in your system a certain amount of time, just like T.

Glad you're feeling better. :)

I'm thinking dehydration.  People don't realize the body needs lots of water to heal.

Quote from: Sebryn on February 19, 2014, 08:53:56 PM
Could be side effects for the pain medication and/or the meds for muscle spasms if you got any. Certain anti nausea medications do the same thing to me. If you're taking Benadryl the "drunken stupor" feeling is exactly what it does to me. And remember that even after you stop medications they still remain in your system a certain amount of time, just like T.

Glad you're feeling better. :)

Aha! I've been taking benadryl every night to sleep! Well that solves that then.

Quote from: Brett on February 19, 2014, 09:13:44 PM
I'm thinking dehydration.  People don't realize the body needs lots of water to heal.

I have been keeping meticulously hydrated after a terrifying incident, what basically triggered my downhill fall was that I let myself get dehydrated. Since then it's gatorade and lots and lots of water. I check my pee to make sure its nice and clear every time i go i am so parranoid!

I ate a good dinner and I managed to get back to walking outside, though not all the way down the street because of the benadryl feeling. ill skip out on taking one tonight as im pretty tired and ill see how i feel tomarrow. Last day of this torture! day after tomarrow the bandages come off and ill never be itchy again!

a big part of my trouble was that my stress levels were through the roof. everything i do to relax (shower, play scary video games, other...things) i can't due for various reasons. I am dirty and greasy and it really messes me up. thankfully its at the point where i went from "how can i do this for X more days??" to "just two more days". Two is much more doable than even five or even three.

An afterthought to add to the actual healing thread: for a while all I could do was walk around and sob uncontrollably. apparently this is common and a side affect of anesthesia. watching toy story 3 definitely didnt help that...

Exactly why I didn't take various meds. (Vicodin and Benadryl in particular). I hate all those sensations as much as I hate feeling pain, which I didn't have that much of tbh. More discomfort. Not much you can do about being uncomfortable, even very uncomfortable, imo. Also read the side effects for the Scope patch, if you are on that one.


--Jay

Greetings gents! I'm on my phone so no pictures, but our work is AMAZING. it's so perfect. I've got some swelling on the right side from having to stop the cat from jumping on me, but the Dr gave us two thumbs up! We are having our first binder free victory meal and well post pictures when we get home.

Seriously, this guy is AMAZING. you guys will freak.

Nine days post op

Finally... pictures!!! Of mine at least. FB is worn out from today so he's resting a little before more pictures commence.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgyazo.com%2Fbaa8934daaec2833a96758da6ecf0a4a.png&hash=0b7d67ab49e30b2e31bfd0194d99c3f0d0fef47a)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgyazo.com%2Fe511b046c389185200f40b860aa3e698.png&hash=6e60d436eb1ea608ae06f64f7a88ee1dc77031b9)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgyazo.com%2F4a7d9919e2ceb8abf9bd1c7e427036ea.png&hash=1974c9adba530e5418d71d77f844de939a5300f2)

Special guest star, Harvey...  ::)

Everything looks AMAZING. I did get to see my nipples and they look fantastic, too. Everything is taking well. I barely have any bruising or swelling, except for on the sides (you can probably tell)... hoping that flattens out because so far it's my only complaint! Everything feels great. The surgeon (a different one did our post-op - not who actually performed the surgery) was NOT gentle removing my foam and stuff though. :P

Seriously, I almost cried on the way home. Everything looks incredible. You can't really tell, but our incisions are SO thin and tiny.

I actually thought seeing my nipple was really cool, even though it was a little gruesome looking (nothing terrible, just a little bloody and scabby). And then suddenly... the room was spinning and I was nauseous. I guess it subconsciously freaked me out? Thought that was kind of funny, actually.

Will get FB to take and post pictures soon - his looks amazing too. And one last question... any idea how to get this medical adhesive off of him? He's still got a pretty solid layer of it - the adhesive came off of the foam and stayed on him. :P Blankets are sticking to him in bed currently.

Man, oh man!

You look amazing, Nathan!!!  I'm so happy for you!  That is great work!  You have every right to feel proud!

Keep those incisions nice and thin - no stretching or straining for a while!

Normal to feel faint after seeing your nipples looking bloody.  I get that way, too.

Regarding the adhesive - I don't know what's available to you there, but here they sell these little individual wipes in the pharmacy that are called "adhesive remover" and they're packaged kind of like alcohol wipes.

Eight Days Post Op

ive got mine in! here they are!

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-iRx4CWyymfA/UwgErFb6g4I/AAAAAAAABvw/9Irjx5N5r2I/w324-h577-no/IMAG0060.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-W5bPlkX_v7M/UwgEtVlZyDI/AAAAAAAABv8/cRECkhadPoA/w324-h577-no/IMAG0061.jpg)

Here is some close ups of the little swelling ive got. im really worried about it...its leaking a little bit. But they dabbed at it at the drs office and didnt say a thing. then again...that dr didnt even take our incision tape off! (hes not the one that usually sees us...)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-7IC-Ai9ISKc/UwgEyQQzhZI/AAAAAAAABwU/s3HfTxIzBa0/w324-h577-no/IMAG0063.jpg)

all that darkness is red leaky stuff. should i be worried about that at all? its leaked onto my bandages a bit.

Crikey, Flighty!  Absolutely amazing!  You must be on Cloud 9!  You're flat as a pancake :D

Regarding the leaking, sounds like fluid to me - what is normally drained out in the drains.  If they weren't worried about it at the doctor's, I wouldn't worry too much.  But if you really are concerned, can you get in touch with the surgeon who did the operation?  Otherwise, ring your GP and ask them.  Where is it leaking from (as in, incision, hole, etc.)?

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on February 21, 2014, 08:19:16 PM
Crikey, Flighty!  Absolutely amazing!  You must be on Cloud 9!  You're flat as a pancake :D

Regarding the leaking, sounds like fluid to me - what is normally drained out in the drains.  If they weren't worried about it at the doctor's, I wouldn't worry too much.  But if you really are concerned, can you get in touch with the surgeon who did the operation?  Otherwise, ring your GP and ask them.  Where is it leaking from (as in, incision, hole, etc.)?

yeah! im totally in love with this surgery...my chest...i cant believe its not that of a cis dudes! i honestly can not.

the leaking is coming from the actual incision, i think. they werent worried in the slightest at the doctors, in fact they didnt even mention it. i only just noticed it was leaking at all when i took my bandage off and it had the smallest spot of fluid on it. my fear is just that the incision tape might fall off or something if it gets too saturated or something...

im a worrier. pain i can handle just fine (though ive got none right now!) but ill worry for ever about everything.

Hey, guys, you are both looking, great!  FB you have practically NO swelling.  Fantastic! 

Congrats, guys!

Nathan and Flighty, you both look awesome! Congrats on the top surgery. :)

Quote from: FlightyBrood on February 21, 2014, 08:32:53 PMmy fear is just that the incision tape might fall off or something if it gets too saturated or something...

It's just micropore tape from what I can see.  You can get it at any pharmacy.  If it gets wet and comes off, just put some fresh on it. 

Amazing looking guys. Guess I'll have to post some pics of mine...once I hunt up a camera better than my iPhone.

In regards to the tape residue if you aren't sensitive to baby oil it can help break up the stickiness so you can gently remove the residue.

As for the leaking my surgeon had me cover the incisions with those gauze pads for a week after my surgery (I had no wrapping/binding/tensor wrap at all) to keep the incision "goo" from getting everywhere.

4 week update:

Incision lines are very narrow and I am keeping them that way with a trick I learned from a piercer about treating hypertrophic scarring using micropore tape over the scars after I let the silicone gel dry. (The tape compression treatment was okayed by my surgeon prior to using it.) Nipples are still scabby but the surgeon says its normal. My left nipple is more advanced in healing than the right. I am still covering my nipples but am happy overall. No work still but I can drive a little bit. The tape on my incisions seems to help remind me not to over reach, which helps considering I feel good otherwise. I still have bouts of nausea and dizziness from the anesthesia but that is pretty normal for me.

Sebryn, thanks for the information.  Can you tell us who your surgeon is?  Will look forward to pictures.  All of mine are taken with an iPhone 3, so no worries on that!

We got to shower, YAY!!! I feel so much better! My nipples are also REALLY itchy... which I guess is a really good thing!

I am really, really wanting to giving a glowing recommendation for Dr. Horowitz to everyone. Think it would be acceptable to make another thread detailing his work and how it went? More people should really know about his work, as it's absolutely amazing and a lower price than other people had quoted us. And no drains!

Swellings seems to have gone down a bit! I saw my nipples for the first time...NOT a pretty site! Bit they itch, my god they itch!! Its the worst good feeling out there id imagine.

The leaking, as everyone told me, isnt a big deal. the assistant to our surgeon, stephanie (who insists i maintain email contact with her throughout healing) keeps checking up on me and making sure i feel okay. She made sure that I was back to eating solid food (I am). The entire staff of this office is so sweet, and very easy to talk to. I dont feel nervous calling them at all, which is odd since I can't even talk to my mom on the phone!

If you hear about someone in california looking for a surgeon....this is the man.

Been fighting tears since yesterday...tears of pure joy. this months been AWFUL and i see it was all just leading up to this amazing moment.

Quote from: NathanExplosion on February 22, 2014, 12:57:21 PM
We got to shower, YAY!!! I feel so much better! My nipples are also REALLY itchy... which I guess is a really good thing!

I am really, really wanting to giving a glowing recommendation for Dr. Horowitz to everyone. Think it would be acceptable to make another thread detailing his work and how it went? More people should really know about his work, as it's absolutely amazing and a lower price than other people had quoted us. And no drains!

Hey, Nathan.  I think it makes sense to do a shout out for him and your experience on another thread.

For updates on recovery, including photos as you go along, it would be great if you kept doing it here.  Make sure you keep mentioning his name in your photo updates, so when people read this thread in the future they will know your chest is from his good work.

I'm glad you both are so happy!

Give us pics on the nipples when you can.

Quote from: FlightyBrood on February 22, 2014, 01:02:39 PM
Swellings seems to have gone down a bit! I saw my nipples for the first time...NOT a pretty site! Bit they itch, my god they itch!! Its the worst good feeling out there id imagine.

The leaking, as everyone told me, isnt a big deal. the assistant to our surgeon, stephanie (who insists i maintain email contact with her throughout healing) keeps checking up on me and making sure i feel okay. She made sure that I was back to eating solid food (I am). The entire staff of this office is so sweet, and very easy to talk to. I dont feel nervous calling them at all, which is odd since I can't even talk to my mom on the phone!

If you hear about someone in california looking for a surgeon....this is the man.

Been fighting tears since yesterday...tears of pure joy. this months been AWFUL and i see it was all just leading up to this amazing moment.

I hear you on the tears.  It was weird, but when I saw my chest for the first time (in Garramone's office - post op appt), I got tears in my eyes, too!  Certainly took me by surprise!

Hey, Jay, I think you might be right about the massage widening my scars.  The ends of the incisions in the center of my chest I believe have widened since doing the massage.  I don't get why they would tell us massage helps scars.  Flattening and making them lighter I suppose, but I do think it may cause some of the widening.  Maybe.  Who knows, you know?

I will say that on the whole my scar has gotten wider than I was hoping it would.  I don't know the reason for this since I have been so careful.  My assumptions are:

1) Just my skin.
2) Maybe Garramone took off too much skin so it was really tight?

I don't know, I have been so anal about it all, it just doesn't make sense.  It is disappointing.  The chest itself, I LOVE, I am just surprised at the scars.  They don't look out of bounds from the pictures I have seen at this stage of healing (4 months, three weeks), but there are definitely thinner ones out there.  Also, I am reading a lot of people here saying that their scars are pretty darn thin.  Of course, everyone on here is behind me on healing, so maybe that is why.

I don't expect to ever have huge pecs or chest hair to cover the scars, so I am not pleased.  Not that I plan on going without a shirt anyway, I suppose, I was just not expecting them to get this wide.   :(

/whining

Brett, I don't know re: the scar thing, but it does make a certain amt. of sense that you are stretching skin when you massage it. I just noticed a change very fast when I did it. But you hear from everyone to massage it. The only place it makes sense is there is a certain place where the scar is kind of lumpy-- it's kind of in the center and I think it is actually from internal stitches as I am guessing they take longer to absorb. Anyway it's my thoughts for whatever the heck they are worth.

I think they will eventually lighten. You see the guys who have had their surgery a year or two (or more) ago, and you see that the scars are lighter. So maybe you will have to wait til the then.

i would say, well I am less than thrilled with the scar but it does look a lot better to me than what used to be there, if you get my drift.

--Jay

Alright! Will definitely post updates here. :) I'll be sure to snap a picture of my nipples next time I shower.

Think I'll make a shout out thread for Dr. Horowitz when we're more healed up and can show more of what others can expect to look like.

Quote from: aleon515 on February 22, 2014, 05:51:16 PM

i would say, well I am less than thrilled with the scar but it does look a lot better to me than what used to be there, if you get my drift.

--Jay

Yes, Jay, that is the way that I really should look at it. 

In terms of lightening, I know that it will in time.  I have a scar vertical on my stomach from another surgery and it is very light.  The issue is that the one on my stomach is quite wide and is certainly something you can see.  Therefore, even though I know my chest scars will get light like the other, I am conscious of the fact that it will still be noticeable (more noticeable than I previously thought).

Thanks for your support, Jay.  I appreciate it.  This is the first time I have been down about the scars...today I just noticed a significant change. 

/whine (I swear)!

Don't worry too much,Brett. Everybody heals differently.
I had my surgery last summer and it was not until this months that I noticed my scars were getting lighter.
I form keloid easily--small scratches or cuts could leave me a scar, so I had never thought that my chest scars would get better at all, but they did.
Keeping a healthy diet and active lifestyle can help your skin regenerate better and faster.

Quote from: SX0877 on February 22, 2014, 09:11:59 PM
Don't worry too much,Brett. Everybody heals differently.
I had my surgery last summer and it was not until this months that I noticed my scars were getting lighter.
I form keloid easily--small scratches or cuts could leave me a scar, so I had never thought that my chest scars would get better at all, but they did.
Keeping a healthy diet and active lifestyle can help your skin regenerate better and faster.

Thanks, SX.

Eleven days post op

Nipple pic incoming! Mine and FB's both look remarkably better just since yesterday. I'm amazed at how fast we're visibly healing.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgyazo.com%2Fadd406ee92fcd5ab55f3a82fd8e979a9.png&hash=01cba70f7c1d982cc88fc2be6b28d6a8cf5a41e3)

Swelling is down on both of us too. Yay!

Looking great, Nathan!

Ten Days Post Op
Dr.Horowitz in Huntington Beach, California.

Not too sure why my nipples are still black and gross...hope its nothing to worry about....

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-0pnF0ru_Mv4/UwptjncNrNI/AAAAAAAAByc/8cxKnI4GYNM/w324-h577-no/IMAG0071.jpg)

also it looks like one is over too far...its not!!!! that side is still a little swollen. its going down steadily though!

I wish I was that skinny.

4 1/2 week update:

Surgeon: Dr. Megan Hassall
Surgery date: 23 January 2014
Surgery type:  Bilateral subcutaneous mastectomy with right nipple grafted, left nipple pedicle retained

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi762.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx266%2FMouse5479%2Fresized3x.jpg&hash=a31d296b45bf0ab6cf1d78278e02ab573aaa3e19)

As you can see, my chest is looking almost healed at just over 4 weeks.  The right nipple is looking much better now - continue debriding the dead tissue as directed by the surgeon.  So, slowly but surely the graft is healing.  It will take a few more weeks before it starts looking completely healed.  I still have a little swelling just under that right nipple, but I think it's slowly going down.

I'm not happy about the creases on my incision lines.  They used a clear, cellophane-like waterproof dressing on my skin initially after my surgery and advised me to continue to use it for the first 3 weeks on top of the micropore tape.  Unfortunately, due to the fact that this dressing wrinkled like crazy being so thin, it actually looks to have caused permanent "wrinkles" in my incision lines which I am honestly not pleased about.  I don't know if the creases have caused the skin to adhere in those places, but I can stretch it out and it just goes back again. 

I don't know if anyone else has experience with these kinds of creases?  I'm not sure if I need to try and massage them out or what.  Either way, I can live with creases - it's not as bad as having moobs, after all.  I'm hoping that once I'm able to work on bulking up, they may stretch out with muscle growth.  Who knows.  But overall I'm quite happy with the result. 

My surgeon was Dr. Gary Lawton.

Also have you thought about using micropore tape as a scar reducing treatment Brett? It can help reduce scar stretching and is often used to treat and prevent hypertrophic scarring. The tape allows the skin to breath but holds the surrounding stronger tissue in place which prevents the weakened (fresh scar tissue and in some cases even older scar tissue) from being able to stretch and pull apart. You apply it by firmly rubbing the tape down along the scar line, using small pieces if needed to conform to the scar shape, keeping the tape pieces as long as possible with a 1/4 inch of tape hang over on either side and the ends of the scar.

Honestly I've used micropore tape to treat scars before, namely one I got from barbed wire on my leg (mending fence on a cattle ranch sucks btw). I've also used just silicone recently to treat scars from my hysterectomy and kidney surgeries. The newest scars from Sept (some double scars, ie same incision site used twice) are pale and flat but did widen and the ones from almost a year ago are barely visible. I used kelo cote gel on those scars and not too horribly consistently either. The scar on my leg is not visible at all anymore and never gained that raised or stretched appearance at all. It did take around a year to fade in color though. The scars on my hands and wrist from cats, a rabbit bite and chemical burn are another matter, all are clearly visible and raised slightly though they are pale now...and are older than the scar on my leg that was treated using only micropore tape. The only difference being nothing was applied to the scars on my hands besides vitamin E oil.

This time around I am using both kelo cote silicone gel and micropore tape compression. The kelo cote gel dries well and is water proof supposedly and doesn't smell. The tape goes on over the scars once the gel is dry.

Also your chest is looking good Kreuzfidel. For the wrinkling I'd suggest contacting the surgeon if you're concerned but I'm fairly certain once your skin regains the elasticity once advanced healing is ending (6months - 1 year in this type of surgery I think) the wrinkles should go away. Building muscle might help stretch the skin more taut also.

lookin good kreuz! what is it with right nipples man?? they seem to like to swell and puff. its great that youre mostly healed up, i was wondering when id be good to not worry about cracking an incision!

longing for the day when i can lay the way i want...

Quote from: FlightyBrood on February 24, 2014, 12:35:21 PM
lookin good kreuz! what is it with right nipples man?? they seem to like to swell and puff. its great that youre mostly healed up, i was wondering when id be good to not worry about cracking an incision!

longing for the day when i can lay the way i want...

I have a theory for the right nipples.... Most of us are right handed I bet hah. We use our dominate hand the most...so that side gets the most movement.

As for laying on your sides and whatnot I was told I had to wait the full six weeks period otherwise the swelling would get worse on whichever side was lower than the other.

I think it was right around three weeks for me when the incisions quit being as...touchy/fragile feeling. Just remember that fresh scars are decently fragile and keep the movement reasonable. Again on average six weeks is generally when the deeper incision lines (the ones inside) are knitted strongly enough to not separate/pull apart. Don't forget you actually have several layers of stitching and incision lines that are healing. :) The outside might look sealed but the inside might not be yet.

Quote from: Sebryn on February 24, 2014, 01:29:29 PM
I have a theory for the right nipples.... Most of us are right handed I bet hah. We use our dominate hand the most...so that side gets the most movement.

As for laying on your sides and whatnot I was told I had to wait the full six weeks period otherwise the swelling would get worse on whichever side was lower than the other.

I think it was right around three weeks for me when the incisions quit being as...touchy/fragile feeling. Just remember that fresh scars are decently fragile and keep the movement reasonable. Again on average six weeks is generally when the deeper incision lines (the ones inside) are knitted strongly enough to not separate/pull apart. Don't forget you actually have several layers of stitching and incision lines that are healing. :) The outside might look sealed but the inside might not be yet.

good to know! ive been laying on my back and such, im not even going to risk lying on my side or anything. my nipple is swollen because i had to jerk my arm to stop the cat from jumping on me one night. its going down, according to the boyfriend....

Hi, Sebryn,

I haven't tried that tape, but KZ mentioned it before. 

I use the silicone strips, so that would be a problem there.  However, I also have the serum (I just feel more confident in the strips).  Perhaps what I will do is use the serum at night with the micropore tape on top of it.  I wonder if I am doing most the the stretching during the night?

Thanks for the tips.

KZ, I really believe that the wrinkling will go away with time.  I don't think it will be too long of a wait, either, if it was about the tape.  I had some puckering that is almost all the way gone, but that is connected to the stitching of the incision.

ETA: My girlfriend picked me up the tape while she was at the store.  I will start this tonight!

Thanks for the reassurance, guys.

Yeah I'm hopeful that it's temporary. Not much I can do about it anyways - looking to hit the gym this year or at least get some half decent home equipment.  Very tired of chicken wings!

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on February 25, 2014, 02:48:57 AM
Thanks for the reassurance, guys.

Yeah I'm hopeful that it's temporary. Not much I can do about it anyways - looking to hit the gym this year or at least get some half decent home equipment.  Very tired of chicken wings!

You and me both Kreuz. Well... I'm a little more on the side of bat wings than chicken wings. Went shopping yesterday and found it very frustrating to not like my body but not be able to work on it for a while! When would you guys suggest would be an acceptable time for me to hit the treadmill?

Quote from: NathanExplosion on February 25, 2014, 11:35:21 AM
You and me both Kreuz. Well... I'm a little more on the side of bat wings than chicken wings. Went shopping yesterday and found it very frustrating to not like my body but not be able to work on it for a while! When would you guys suggest would be an acceptable time for me to hit the treadmill?

three weeks like the dr said nate!!!!! (im watching you)

I'm glad that I had been lifting weights three times a week and running everyday before surgery for the last year. (With a binder on...ugh...had to run in the wee hours of the morning to avoid the heat. Not going to miss that.) I think that is one of the major issues behind my stir craziness. I can't lift weights, or work out. Also I can walk but no running because it gets my heart rate up, something my surgeon said to avoid for six weeks. You guys might want to check if that's the same for you Nathan and FB before climbing on a treadmill since it can be easy to get your heart rate up right when you first begin a new exercise regimen. And yes FB keep an eye on Nathan lol. In the greater scheme of things six weeks is nothing....well besides mildly annoying when you feel the best you've ever felt in your life. :)

Quote from: Sebryn on February 25, 2014, 03:50:44 PM
I'm glad that I had been lifting weights three times a week and running everyday before surgery for the last year. (With a binder on...ugh...had to run in the wee hours of the morning to avoid the heat. Not going to miss that.) I think that is one of the major issues behind my stir craziness. I can't lift weights, or work out. Also I can walk but no running because it gets my heart rate up, something my surgeon said to avoid for six weeks. You guys might want to check if that's the same for you Nathan and FB before climbing on a treadmill since it can be easy to get your heart rate up right when you first begin a new exercise regimen. And yes FB keep an eye on Nathan lol. In the greater scheme of things six weeks is nothing....well besides mildly annoying when you feel the best you've ever felt in your life. :)

You dont even know, this guy is over here trying to carry groceries and reach high shelves...hes a monster in the making! Just one of the many questions to ask the surgeon...along with what it was like to hold a disembodied nipple.

in healing news, im 12 days along and my nipples have started to turn pink!!

Nathan, my surgeon said the same as Sebryn's surgeon.  6 weeks before cardio (heart rate up).

I'll definitely have to ask the surgeon - our post-operative care sheet says three weeks!

Six weeks before cardio?  That sounds pretty excessive, but if that's what the doctor ordered...

I'm just glad I took a full 6 weeks post-op off.  I intend to start cardio after I go back to work - but will probably not hit the gym/weights until after a couple of months.

anyone know why you cant get your heartrate up? whats the reason behind that?

Increased stress on your system, mainly the blood vessels I believe. When your heart rate goes up blood pumps faster through your body, especially muscles, to deliver them oxygen. So since you have had surgery which involved cutting the muscles I believe the reasoning behind it is that it could stress the healing inner incisions which in most cases haven't fully sealed until that six week mark.

Just keep it at a nice slow pace or walk outside maybe? I was cleared for long walks on week three. (A couple of miles if I wanted.)

Remember you both went through a major surgery even though it doesn't feel like it now. I actually personally had to look into exactly what was involved in the surgery for it to sink in how much was done. Not for the weak stomach or easily grossed out, but it does make it hit home once you realize what all was cut and then sewn back together internally.

Quote from: Sebryn on February 25, 2014, 09:56:27 PM
Increased stress on your system, mainly the blood vessels I believe. When your heart rate goes up blood pumps faster through your body, especially muscles, to deliver them oxygen. So since you have had surgery which involved cutting the muscles I believe the reasoning behind it is that it could stress the healing inner incisions which in most cases haven't fully sealed until that six week mark.

Just keep it at a nice slow pace or walk outside maybe? I was cleared for long walks on week three. (A couple of miles if I wanted.)

Remember you both went through a major surgery even though it doesn't feel like it now. I actually personally had to look into exactly what was involved in the surgery for it to sink in how much was done. Not for the weak stomach or easily grossed out, but it does make it hit home once you realize what all was cut and then sewn back together internally.

We were told to walk week one, so we did do some walking around the street. Not miles and miles or anything but we could walk if we wanted. It made me feel much much MUCH better. Around i think three days or so for me, we started walking outside. We've got a little dog who was SO excited to go for his walk! Made sure mom held the leash though.

I was told there was no muscle involved in my surgery, that it was all skin based. Either way, increased blood flow makes sense. I'm not particularly a runner myself, but I know Nate's dying to get back to working out.

I wouldn't recommend running (not sure when you are though). But walking is good for you. I started maybe 2nd day and think it helped quite a lot.

--Jay

Hah yeah I think I was told to rein in on the miles since I am used to running miles and miles everyday. I could walk after day one and did but was told not to overdo it, to the point he even gave me a distance limit. Now I have to relearn how to run...no more slouching. Yay. I hear you guys on the dog walking...we have two little poodles. One is mine and I am very thankful I trained her to walk next to me so I can walk her hands free by tying her leash to my belt/belt loop. Very useful. And she despises running so she keeps me in check lol.

All in all none of us can really advise you on exercise restrictions since each surgeon has different restrictions. Ask your surgeon since there is normally a clause in the surgery agreement about complications and revisions not being covered if you don't follow the surgeon's post-op care and restrictions. A lot of surgeons have varying restrictions and restrictive periods.

Most of the six week periods are based off of the far end of the average healing time for people in general. You'll see six weeks quoted a lot for healing times, such as piercings and tattoos. Even though those types of things don't really register as a big deal they really do put a strain on your system as it heals. A lot of times you'll be told to avoid caffeine and alcohol as much as possible and to be "chill" until healing has completed, on average one and a half to two months (6-8weeks).

I believe there is some truth to the cardio thing personally. I have tattoos and piercings, some I got before I started being diligent about running and some after. The ones before I was running everyday never swelled, almost at all. Kind of freaky hah, like my near zero swelling after top surgery. Now the second and third part of my forearm tattoo were done after I had been very diligent in my running (minus down time for my hysterectomy and kidney surgeries) and both swelled excessively, especially the third time which was weird since it was the least time I'd ever spent in the chair. The only thing that changed was the running every morning. So at least for me I believe being as chill as possible about the cardio is the way to go to promote a good healing period.

Also don't forget the vitamins and veggies. :) I think I'm driving people around here insane with my health nut diet.

11 weeks mini update

I tried running again for the first time since surgery yesterday, it felt pretty amazing to not have things bouncing around but what little bouncing I did feel felt weird and pully. So I am settling for brisk walking for now. I plan on weights tomorrow and shall report back!

Also, I went clothes shopping, after years of hiding under XL button down shirts I am now wearing size small t-shirts, they fit on the shoulders and  don't hang all the way down to my freaking knees - so awesome ;D (why do clothes manufacturers assume all XL wearing people are tall anyway?)

so im just short of two weeks along and my nipples are still black and kind of gooey. going in tomarrow for my two week post op, but its been bothering me. is this normal? just want some peace of mind until tomarrow...

also, one of them has a little holeish thing near the bottom of it, and the other bled a little bit. Are those things normal?

11 weeks is fine for running. I thought there were some guys who were under 8 weeks in.
Not sure what the doctors instructions were but a lot of doctors don't like you to raise your heart rate before about 6-8 weeks.

--Jay

Quote from: FlightyBrood on February 26, 2014, 04:35:50 PM
so im just short of two weeks along and my nipples are still black and kind of gooey. going in tomarrow for my two week post op, but its been bothering me. is this normal? just want some peace of mind until tomarrow...

also, one of them has a little holeish thing near the bottom of it, and the other bled a little bit. Are those things normal?

Yeah, I'd say it's normal.  I was terrified because I couldn't find any information on it or how they should look.  I'm 5 weeks today and my right one is still gooey.  It can take a long time to heal.

So two week post op was today, and the doctor said everything looked good. My left nipple looked to be mostly pus (not the areola, just the nipple), but the doctor said to just keep an eye on it. He said I could stop using gauze and just put normal bandaids on it. However, he was out of bandaids that were big enough, so he put gauze and tape over it and said to put a bandaid on it when I got home.

However, when I got home and went to take the gauze off, the pus-y nipple stuck to the gauze and seemed to start pulling off in a big chunk and bled. I FREAKED OUT and put the gauze back and left it alone.

Is my whole nipple coming off or was it just a big scab? The areola looks great, nice and pink. I called the surgeon but he didn't pick up and his mailbox is full, GRRR.

It's fine, I'd say.  Give the surgeon a ring again and keep trying - but mine is doing the same thing.  The areola is fine, but the center nipple part is essentially just a little lump of dead tissue attached to new granulating tissue underneath.  It's essentially a big gross scab and if you pull it before it's ready to detach it'll bleed.  Just keep the gauze on it and keep an eye on it. 

Alright, thanks Kreuz. I peeked at it a bit and it almost looks like a hole beneath the whitish, yellowish, pinkish mess under there, but it looks like the scab is still attached to some living tissue. I am definitely going to just leave it alone for now and try the surgeon again in the morning! The surgery center is closed now but we have an email in to them and they sometimes respond after hours.

My one nipple looked like just a blob of scab attached to a healthy areola for a period of time, too.

Sounds like you are making good decisions in how you are handling this, Nathan (calling the doc, not messing with it, etc.).

One thing I have learned over the last 4 months is that we can all have freaky things happening with our nipples, but they all seem to turn out ok.

Nathan, I don't want to gross you (or anyone out), but here's a photo of my nipple at 4 1/2 weeks with the gooey stuff in the center:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi762.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx266%2FMouse5479%2Fresized2.jpg&hash=c4d049feef45541ae110ed943d12f109cbddbabb)

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on February 27, 2014, 09:47:47 PM
Nathan, I don't want to gross you (or anyone out), but here's a photo of my nipple at 4 1/2 weeks with the gooey stuff in the center:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi762.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx266%2FMouse5479%2Fresized2.jpg&hash=c4d049feef45541ae110ed943d12f109cbddbabb)

upon seeing this, nate exclaimed "THAT is more what it looked like"

so he says he feels a LOT better about it, then.

Kreuz, youre seriously like our super hero.

Dawwww my pleasure!  ;D 8)

So we went to bandaid up my nipples and wouldn't you know...the same thing happened to me! So it seems it is just a scab after all!

All that worrying for nothing...hah...

So I guess I should ask this too - what should I DO about that scab? It's REALLY stuck to the gauze I have on. Like, really stuck. And it's definitely not ready to come off yet, but I need to shower today and I should change the dressing... but the scab is definitely attached to things I shouldn't be pulling off. GRRR.

Maybe ask the surgeon if applying a thin <--- and I mean thin! (Too much can cause problems for some people.) layer of triple antibiotic ointment over the scab to keep it from sticking and drying to the bandage would help. My own surgeon prescribed a cream/ointment used for burn treatment to protect the wounds from infection that I've been using from day 1, he told me I could stop using it if the scabs weren't sticking to the bandage...but I tried it yesterday and they still are so the cream went back on last night after my shower.

Oh and be careful showing with certain bandages/tape. I tried with all three different kinds of tape and it made the tape worse to pull off, made it stick worse. So use the shower removal option with caution.

you all know us, you all love us, some of you cant get enough of us! its time for one half of the comedy duo as funny as they are real (read:not at all) to post his two week update!

Top Surgery Update-2 Weeks Double Incision with Dr.Horowitz in California

So we just got the OK to start cleaning our incisions which means YOU ALL GET TO SEE THEM! Im gonna confess, the lighting in these pictures make everything look GARISH, but everything is spot on beautiful in person. Without further ado, pictures!

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zd_dcDkekZ4/UxEQjSxOLSI/AAAAAAAAB2k/w-WrAj5uG0Y/w324-h577-no/ZOE_0002.jpg)

look at those beauties! thinner than a macbook air (and twice as durable) and they are barely even noticable. I honestly havent seen them myself, while i was cleaning it it just looked like normal skin! Here I have a bandage over my problem child nipple, the twin brother to my partner in crime's problem child. I was worried to take it off, as the scab stuck to the bandage last night and i have to physically hold it on while i removed the gauze. BUT lets see...

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-JBJNfNffWUg/UxEQ_tmBFwI/AAAAAAAAB28/X1UjBItI0O4/w324-h577-no/IMAG0090.jpg)

Tah dah! Everything came off completely fine! There they are gents, looking pink and healthy! All those reading this thread, its TOTALLY NORMAL for your nipples to be a bit gooey and black! I didn't know that, I wish I had read this post three days ago...

I still have some strings poking out, spitting sutures i believe theyre called, but ive been giving them a clip as soon as i see them-my advice is use nail clippers instead of scissors. It keeps the suture from bending rather than cutting and thats terrifying.

If you look at my first pictures, youll notice my nipple appears to be escaping my chest-that was due to swelling. Im happy to say the swelling has gone down TREMENDOUSLY and the little guy is right back where hes supposed to be. You'll also notice some yellowish stuff in the middle of my chest. Thats just some medical adhesive that has decided to attempt to become a permanent part of my body. If you're having trouble with that stuff too, try some anti-bacterial soap to dry the stuff out. Then you can peel it away at the edges. Lather, rinse, repeat!

ive got some swelling in the sides there, those are NOT dog ears. I did not have drains and I have no complications resulting in not having them.

Cheers, gents!

--FB

Two week update (sixteen days actually)

Alrighty! So showering didn't help my stuck scab. It's DEFINITELY not ready to actually come off, so what I did was just trim down the gauze as much as possible and got it down to two layers. Nothing major - it looks fine under there, it's just all stuck together. Gross!

I took pictures of my chest one side at a time because I wanted to take a break in between peeling all that tape and such off. So here's the "good side"...

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hqaWiF01y2U/UxEJyGKsZxI/AAAAAAAAB1E/6VGalnnWUsQ/w433-h577-no/IMAG0082.jpg)

Looking good! The only reason my incisions look dark is because I still have some marker on me where the doctor marked where my incisions would be. This nipple is nice and pink and has a thin, brown scab, which is what the surgeon said it should look like.

Aaand... the bad side.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4GPj6H8kW5g/UxEKgVbA08I/AAAAAAAAB1o/b219fJtYeB8/w433-h577-no/IMAG0085.jpg)

Now, this picture looks WAY WORSE than it actually is! I SWEAR the incision on this side looks exactly like the other side in person. For some reason I COULD NOT get a picture where the incision didn't look awful and garish and red. I'll try again next time I clean. But it's also super thin and healing up great. That little patch of gauze is what is stuck on, and I just slapped a bandaid over it.

The sides are still swollen because I had a TON of lipo there - the surgeon said he drained a liter just from my sides! So those should flatten out on their own, and then more once I start working out and losing weight.

Guys, your chests are looking AMAZING!!!  I always expect incisions in photos to look 2x as red as they do IRL, so no worries.  Both your incisions are nice and even and look like they're healing well.  It only gets better from here!

Nathan, ask your surgeon about the sticking to the gauze thing.  I'm not using gauze to cover my sticky nipple - I'm using a silver-infused wound pad.  Maybe switching to something like that will cut down on the sticking.  Again, your surgeon will let you know what he thinks would be best.

Again, congrats guys!  You must be on Cloud 9!

You guys look great!  As Kreuzfidel said, it just gets better.  Glad to hear you both are clear that there is still a lot of swelling and that there is nothing to worry about if your chest isn't just the way you want it to look.

Things look really good guys for only 2 weeks.

Congrats!

P.S.  I had planned to do a 5 month update picture, but it really does look the same as the 4 month one!  The only difference, like I said, was perhaps a bit more widening in the incision.  Where I see the widening is in the center where the incision lines were pencil thin. 

The scars continue to lighten, though, although slowly.  I am less upset about how wide the scars are than when I wrote that last post about it.  I take heart in the fact that my old scars are extremely light and also the fact that Garramone has good placement of the scars.  They will tuck in a bit under the muscle, expecially when they get totally flat.  Again, looking at old scars, I can see they get flat with silicone treatment.

I also have to keep in mind that it will not be very often (or at all), that people will ever see my chest.  Maybe a few years down the road on the beach (I will worry about sun exposure for a couple of years), but that really isn't a big deal.  I can't take too much heart in that though, because I worry about the scars for me, and what I see in the mirror.

EDIT:  Just noticed I won't be at 5 months until next week.  I doubt there will be any change though.  I will do a 6th month picture.

Brett, I'm glad to hear you aren't feeling so down about your scars. I think you're your own worst critic with them, and while it of course matters in this case, I think you should keep in mind that they will always look worse to you than they really are. I think you're right that they will disappear a bit under the pectoral muscle soon!

A tiny update for me - the nipple that is stuck to the gauze is definitely a scab, and it's looking more ready to come off now. There is a nice pink nub under there! It's not QUITE ready to come off yet so I'm still leaving it alone and just changing the bandaid over the small piece of gauze. I feel loads better!

The infamous stuck scab came off, hooray! There's a pink nub under there! It's still a little gooey, but looking LOADS better. Phew.

Quote from: NathanExplosion on March 02, 2014, 03:02:48 PM
The infamous stuck scab came off, hooray! There's a pink nub under there! It's still a little gooey, but looking LOADS better. Phew.

Glad to hear it!  RELIEF, eh?

Looking great you two! The no drain technique seems to work well, I wonder why it's so common to have drains when it doesn't appear necessary. I probably would have been fine with no drains, less than 10ml even from the first time they were emptied. To quote Brett....ah well, maybe next time :P

I'm very much enjoying working out and being active ;D I was a little worried that I was just using the "I'll try harder after surgery...." line as a scapegoat but it really is sooooooo much better now. I can breath and jump and even do press ups for the first time in my life :D it's waaay easier without the evil twins getting in the way.

I'm finding myself walking to places I would usually get the bus to, hell the other day me and my partner bought some chairs and then carried them the 2 miles home no trouble at all. It's nice that I can keep up with him now, he's very excited at the prospect of going hiking together at last.

I never used to understand anyone who said they enjoyed working out and all that talk of endorphins and whatnot, all I ever used to feel when I exercised was pain and dysphoria, I only did it because I had to xD I get it now! I feel amazing! Nobody can argue that this surgery is purely cosmetic, my quality of life improvement is off the charts ;D

Quote from: Jeatyn on March 03, 2014, 12:07:36 PM
Looking great you two! The no drain technique seems to work well, I wonder why it's so common to have drains when it doesn't appear necessary. I probably would have been fine with no drains, less than 10ml even from the first time they were emptied. To quote Brett....ah well, maybe next time :P

I'm very much enjoying working out and being active ;D I was a little worried that I was just using the "I'll try harder after surgery...." line as a scapegoat but it really is sooooooo much better now. I can breath and jump and even do press ups for the first time in my life :D it's waaay easier without the evil twins getting in the way.

I'm finding myself walking to places I would usually get the bus to, hell the other day me and my partner bought some chairs and then carried them the 2 miles home no trouble at all. It's nice that I can keep up with him now, he's very excited at the prospect of going hiking together at last.

I never used to understand anyone who said they enjoyed working out and all that talk of endorphins and whatnot, all I ever used to feel when I exercised was pain and dysphoria, I only did it because I had to xD I get it now! I feel amazing! Nobody can argue that this surgery is purely cosmetic, my quality of life improvement is off the charts ;D

Absolutely seconding the "quality of life" statement. I can't WAIT to get back to working out and I HATED working out before. Everything is so much easier now!!!

Wow fresh pepperonis!! Sorry you need the drains in. I had a friend who couldn't get his drains out til a week later. That's a major pain, but looks like it will look good when all is done.

--Jay

Your chest is looking great, chipper! :D

Sorry to hear about having to keep the drains in longer.  You'll be alright, though.  Time will soon start to fly.

Your chest looks, GREAT, chipper!  I'm glad you decided to come in and post with a picture.  I know what you mean about wondering what the areolas/nipples would look like under the bandages.

Speaking of which, I was looking at my areolas/nipples today.  I find that now that I am over the wonder of having a male chest, I have gotten more critical of how my chest looks.  I mentioned my disappointment with having scars wider than expected.  I feel like I have been able to "let go" of this, but it was interesting the way I had this intense sadness for a couple of days about it.  Very unexpected.

Anyway, today I noticed that my left nipple is too large for my areola.  A couple months back I spoke about how my areolas look stitched on... little red pieces of areola pulled away from the base and stitched against my pale skin, all the way around.  Well, as those "pulled" pieces get absorbed (as expected), the actual size of the areola is more apparent.  It is smaller than it first appeared.  Subsequently, the nipples look larger.  The left one looks too large for the size of the areola, in my opinion.  The nipple also looks like it has "plumped up" recently or something.

I am not unhappy with size of the areolas, I love their size.  I just wish the size of the nipple was a bit smaller.

I wonder if you can get a revision on a nipple?  Could Garramone just do a simple cutting down of it?

Jay, what is up with your areolas/nipples?  Are yours stitched on like mine?  It is very hard to explain, so I am not sure I am making in clear.  In looking at the close ups of other guys on here, it seems as though their areolas have smooth edges right out of the gare. Mine, on the other hand, are growing into being smooth.  How are yours?

Congrats again, chipper!

Brett, if I'm understanding you correctly, ours are stitched on the same way. I believe they're dissolved now but you can see where there were little tiny visible stitches all the way around the areola and some redness from it. It should be fairly easy to shave down the nipple, if you mean it is too long? Or is it too big the other direction(s) if that makes sense?

Looking good by the way, chipper!

Quote from: Brett on March 07, 2014, 09:19:05 PM

Anyway, today I noticed that my left nipple is too large for my areola.  A couple months back I spoke about how my areolas look stitched on... little red pieces of areola pulled away from the base and stitched against my pale skin, all the way around.  Well, as those "pulled" pieces get absorbed (as expected), the actual size of the areola is more apparent.  It is smaller than it first appeared.  Subsequently, the nipples look larger.  The left one looks too large for the size of the areola, in my opinion.  The nipple also looks like it has "plumped up" recently or something.

I am not unhappy with size of the areolas, I love their size.  I just wish the size of the nipple was a bit smaller.

I wonder if you can get a revision on a nipple?  Could Garramone just do a simple cutting down of it?

Jay, what is up with your areolas/nipples?  Are yours stitched on like mine?  It is very hard to explain, so I am not sure I am making in clear.  In looking at the close ups of other guys on here, it seems as though their areolas have smooth edges right out of the gare. Mine, on the other hand, are growing into being smooth.  How are yours?

Congrats again, chipper!

I am not surprised that guys are so critical of their chest results. Makes sense that dysphoria doesn't go away totally. I know a guy whose results look darn good, he is so depressed with them. Everybody thinks that they look wonderful, but he can't be convinced. Finally folks just started telling him to get a revision. Strange thing.

I am personally critical that I have no pecs. Also the right nipple, I think what is that it takes some amount of time, but it looks like there is no nipple, just areola. I know nothing happened to it, so I am guessing maybe it has yet to come out. Odd. Also I am still swollen under the right arm, which is odd because the right one was where I had more trouble with the drain and all.

BTW, chipper , better out of the drains for sure, even though they are a pita.

Also I was talking with a cis male friend of mine. He is about my age. He never goes anywhere without a shirt.
It sounds like I am happier with my chest than he is?


--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on March 08, 2014, 02:08:31 AM

I am not surprised that guys are so critical of their chest results. Makes sense that dysphoria doesn't go away totally.

Yeah I've been stopping myself lately from being so upset over the little things like the creases in my incisions - but then I think back and reckon "anything is better than before".  I can live with creases, but not with moobs!

Hi, guys.

Nathan, I looked back at pictures on this thread and realized that I must not have paid as good attention to the nipples as I thought.  However, if you notice Kreuzfidel's areola on post #323, the edges do look very smooth.  That, and my memory of the first pictures posted of Alexthecat is where I got the thinking from.  You're right, though, eveyone's appears to be stitched.

I stood in front of my mirror this morning and realized that the nipple I have issue with looks fine from far away.  Someone would have to get up in my areola's face to see that it isn't great.  I am just being picky.

I took some pictures of the two of them.  The first one is areola/nipple I am talking about (left side of chest).  The nipple is too large for the size of the areola (not meaning length, Nathan).  As an aside, you can see at the top of the areola, that there is a still a bit of exess tissue that will be absorbed making the areola a bit smaller.

The second one is blurry, but is my other (right) nipple.  To me, the nipple/areola are in good proportion to each other.  To be honest with you, what the hell do I know, I have never been up close to a cis guys's (or trans guy's) areola!

(5 months and 1 week)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi769.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx338%2Fclearle%2Fphoto15_zps5a748005.jpg&hash=2c3231c1f1e4a237aa079fbc2d632ce68db33c0d)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi769.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx338%2Fclearle%2Fphoto16_zpsf9876aec.jpg&hash=01bd764a9c84a4f64dd6fe523b82e1d887bfebcd)

What do you all think?

My understanding is that it really takes a long time for top surgery results to completely settle in and heal. Actually Brett your nipples look a lot better than mine at this point, and I see what you mean by farther away vs nearer.

Also just remember, "all those ripples and wrinkles will smooth out".  :D
I'm sure Brett will recognize where the quote comes from.

I like my incision line better than the moobs.

--Jay

so...theres a hole in my chest....

the incisions were completely healed up and i got the OK to stop cleaning them with peroxide and...

i was changing my tapes today and my incision started leaking puss and i put peroxide on it and squeezed it out, and now theres a hole in my incision??? its small but deep. i emailed the surgeon but of course their office is closed.

sigh...why do things always go wrong for us on the weekends??

Quote from: FlightyBrood on March 08, 2014, 05:52:16 PM
so...theres a hole in my chest....

the incisions were completely healed up and i got the OK to stop cleaning them with peroxide and...

i was changing my tapes today and my incision started leaking puss and i put peroxide on it and squeezed it out, and now theres a hole in my incision??? its small but deep. i emailed the surgeon but of course their office is closed.

sigh...why do things always go wrong for us on the weekends??

Could be the "spitting sutures" I experienced (just one).  Jeatyn had a time with it, as well.  They fill in.  Try not to stress until you hear from your surgeon.

Quote from: aleon515 on March 08, 2014, 03:06:14 PM
My understanding is that it really takes a long time for top surgery results to completely settle in and heal. Actually Brett your nipples look a lot better than mine at this point, and I see what you mean by farther away vs nearer.

Also just remember, "all those ripples and wrinkles will smooth out".  :D
I'm sure Brett will recognize where the quote comes from.

I like my incision line better than the moobs.

--Jay

Well, I am wondering if you think that the nipple is too large for the areola in the first picture (my left side)?  What is your nipple to areola ratio like?  To me the second picture (my right side) is more balanced. 

Quote from: Brett on March 08, 2014, 08:35:40 PM
Could be the "spitting sutures" I experienced (just one).  Jeatyn had a time with it, as well.  They fill in.  Try not to stress until you hear from your surgeon.

its weird because i have multiple spitting sutures....at least i thought i did? ive got these little clear strings poking out (i think im down to just three left) and the doctor said everything was fine and i could cut them off and itll be fine. are those...not spitting sutures?? or maybe this one is a suture that spit and i didnt realize it?

anyways, the whole thing drained completely empty. if i remember anything from my (very basic) medical classes its that if something starts draining on its own, drain the heck out of it.

the little thing LOOKED like a flat zit just under my incision. i took the tape off and made the most minor of stretches and it exploded. i cleaned it up and put some peroxide on it and then it drained until it became a hollow hole.

its really hard for me to calm down about things, because i have some pretty serious anxiety issues so if one little thing looks moderately worriesome i cant stop stressing out about it. the surgeons office is closed sundays i believe so im pretty much not sleeping until monday, unless by some miracle the surgeons assisstant gets back to me tonight or tomarrow. until then ill keep it clean, drained and covered.

i just dont know what happened...i was really diligent with cleaning until i was told i dont have to anymore...the moment i stopped cleaning this happens...ugh...

Quote from: FlightyBrood on March 08, 2014, 08:54:22 PM
its weird because i have multiple spitting sutures....at least i thought i did? ive got these little clear strings poking out (i think im down to just three left) and the doctor said everything was fine and i could cut them off and itll be fine. are those...not spitting sutures?? or maybe this one is a suture that spit and i didnt realize it?

anyways, the whole thing drained completely empty. if i remember anything from my (very basic) medical classes its that if something starts draining on its own, drain the heck out of it.

the little thing LOOKED like a flat zit just under my incision. i took the tape off and made the most minor of stretches and it exploded. i cleaned it up and put some peroxide on it and then it drained until it became a hollow hole.

its really hard for me to calm down about things, because i have some pretty serious anxiety issues so if one little thing looks moderately worriesome i cant stop stressing out about it. the surgeons office is closed sundays i believe so im pretty much not sleeping until monday, unless by some miracle the surgeons assisstant gets back to me tonight or tomarrow. until then ill keep it clean, drained and covered.

i just dont know what happened...i was really diligent with cleaning until i was told i dont have to anymore...the moment i stopped cleaning this happens...ugh...

Did your surgeon actually advise you to use peroxide to clean your wounds???  Considering the fact that medical literature actually now advises against it as it can slow healing and destroy granulating tissue, I find that a bit odd.

Regarding the oozing hole - like the others have commented, probably a suture.  I wouldn't be putting peroxide on it, mate.  Just use saline solution to flush the area - then dry it and cover it with a sterile dressing until your surgeon returns to work. 

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on March 08, 2014, 09:29:48 PM
Did your surgeon actually advise you to use peroxide to clean your wounds???  Considering the fact that medical literature actually now advises against it as it can slow healing and destroy granulating tissue, I find that a bit odd.

Regarding the oozing hole - like the others have commented, probably a suture.  I wouldn't be putting peroxide on it, mate.  Just use saline solution to flush the area - then dry it and cover it with a sterile dressing until your surgeon returns to work.

No kidding? I hadn't heard that! He advised a 50% peroxide and 50% water mixture, so we've been using that. Should we put some antibiotic ointment on the hole?

Here's week 7 nipples. I think my right nipple has more nipple compared to the left nipple.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe107%2Fscoobyses%2Fsurgery%2Fweek7-3.jpg&hash=3a060508f944dee8acfaa6de0c57fff27377d897)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe107%2Fscoobyses%2Fsurgery%2Fweek7-4.jpg&hash=f0a8685c49089d94c4fc7c230e1b8791e59782e0)

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on March 08, 2014, 09:29:48 PM
Did your surgeon actually advise you to use peroxide to clean your wounds???  Considering the fact that medical literature actually now advises against it as it can slow healing and destroy granulating tissue, I find that a bit odd.

Regarding the oozing hole - like the others have commented, probably a suture.  I wouldn't be putting peroxide on it, mate.  Just use saline solution to flush the area - then dry it and cover it with a sterile dressing until your surgeon returns to work.

50% peroxide 50% water is what they had us using.

i wasnt planning on putting peroxide on it any more actually, since the stuff would get inside the hole and something about peroxide internally doesnt strike me as a good idea. im showering soon so ill take a look at it then. until the dr gets back to me ive got a bandaid over it and some micropore tape over that

Quote from: NathanExplosion on March 08, 2014, 09:36:38 PM
No kidding? I hadn't heard that! He advised a 50% peroxide and 50% water mixture, so we've been using that. Should we put some antibiotic ointment on the hole?

It probably wouldn't hurt, would be better than peroxide IMHO. 

Quote from: FlightyBrood on March 08, 2014, 10:41:46 PMi wasnt planning on putting peroxide on it any more actually, since the stuff would get inside the hole and something about peroxide internally doesnt strike me as a good idea.

Yep, it's not a good idea.  Just keep it flushed with the saline until you speak with your surgeon.  50% peroxide dilution is typically okay for surface abrasions, etc., but I wouldn't recommend it for an open wound.

@FB- this is a useful site: http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/wound-care-10/
I think basically it's clean it gently and use the antibiotic cream. I don't think the hydrogen peroxide is recommended.

@Brett- I'll try to do a close up on my nipples today for your viewing amusement. LOL.


--Jay

Quote from: FlightyBrood on March 08, 2014, 05:52:16 PM
so...theres a hole in my chest....

the incisions were completely healed up and i got the OK to stop cleaning them with peroxide and...

i was changing my tapes today and my incision started leaking puss and i put peroxide on it and squeezed it out, and now theres a hole in my incision??? its small but deep. i emailed the surgeon but of course their office is closed.

sigh...why do things always go wrong for us on the weekends??

As Brett mentioned this sounds very similar to what happened to me and it was not pleasant. Defo go see your surgeon as soon as possible to see if you need antibiotics, did you have antibiotics straight after surgery?

FB, I agree with Kreuzfidel about the peroxide.  I took pause at that when you first mentioned that was part of your routine, but I have learned that different surgeons do things differently, so I figured it best not to comment.

I will tell you that Garramone told me to just cover the hole with triple antibiotic ointment for a couple of days and then just leave it alone.  However, I had no stuff coming out of my hole, no infection.  I saw a second white string peeking it's way out a day or so later and I just covered it with a tiny band aid, and it never came out.  Both of mine were just soft white string, neither of them were that clear fishing line type stuff.  It took a month, but filled in, just as Garramone said it would (he told me 2 weeks, though).

I remember you said you had some serious anxiety problems, but just try to hang in there.  Jeatlyn may be helpful in this regard since he had an infection.

As an aside, "spitting sutures" is not abnormal.  I posted some links earlier in this thread when Jeatlyn was talking about this.  There was quite a bit of discussion about it all with others chiming in.  I would suggest searching mine or Jeatlyn's name in order to find those posts.  It will be informative and may relieve some of your anxiety.

Alexthecat, those are some beautiful areolas/nipples there!  Yes, a bit more nipple on the one than the other.  I think they both look great! 

Quote from: Jeatyn on March 09, 2014, 07:22:17 AM
As Brett mentioned this sounds very similar to what happened to me and it was not pleasant. Defo go see your surgeon as soon as possible to see if you need antibiotics, did you have antibiotics straight after surgery?

i didnt have any antibiotics after surgery.

Quote from: Brett on March 09, 2014, 10:35:16 AM
FB, I agree with Kreuzfidel about the peroxide.  I took pause at that when you first mentioned that was part of your routine, but I have learned that different surgeons do things differently, so I figured it best not to comment.

I will tell you that Garramone told me to just cover the hole with triple antibiotic ointment for a couple of days and then just leave it alone.  However, I had no stuff coming out of my hole, no infection.  I saw a second white string peeking it's way out a day or so later and I just covered it with a tiny band aid, and it never came out.  Both of mine were just soft white string, neither of them were that clear fishing line type stuff.  It took a month, but filled in, just as Garramone said it would (he told me 2 weeks, though).

I remember you said you had some serious anxiety problems, but just try to hang in there.  Jeatlyn may be helpful in this regard since he had an infection.

As an aside, "spitting sutures" is not abnormal.  I posted some links earlier in this thread when Jeatlyn was talking about this.  There was quite a bit of discussion about it all with others chiming in.  I would suggest searching mine or Jeatlyn's name in order to find those posts.  It will be informative and may relieve some of your anxiety.

Alexthecat, those are some beautiful areolas/nipples there!  Yes, a bit more nipple on the one than the other.  I think they both look great! 

im not worried about the clear string spitting sutures. theyeve been there since i got my foam off one week in. Im used to them by now, ive just been cutting them as they come out.  seeing my surgeon isnt an option until at least tuesday, so hopefully they get back to me and tell me its nothing big.

Garramone automatically gives you an antibiotic to start taking immediately after your surgery. 

Maybe he will call you in a prescription for an antibiotic on Monday when you call his office.  Tell them about the pus.  It is as easy as his nurse making the call to the pharmacy where you can pick it up/send someone to pick it up.

My experience is that pus is almost always treated internally. It's usually a sign of infection that's not so superficial. Not sure if everyone would treat it that way.

--Jay

Yo, Mr. Clone, you promised me some nipple pics!  Now get on it!   :D

Quote from: Brett on March 09, 2014, 04:36:18 PM
Yo, Mr. Clone, you promised me some nipple pics!  Now get on it!   :D

Okey dokey, Mr. Clone Man. :)
left first, then right. BTW, funny black and blue on incision line. Strange.  Jay

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FxfNEX4e.jpg&hash=ee15d2ebb3a7d62ed5ebc29936ddecc10f7a0b3d) (http://imgur.com/xfNEX4e)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fza6wE9p.jpg&hash=e89d487cd4ab7b2a409553014a6e3cb59115bbbc)

they got back to me, and told me that sometimes this just happens. i was instructed to put neosporin on it and keep it covered up, and that a nurse will call me tomarrow about it.

its not a big deal apparently. wen i changed my tape today there was no more pus or grossness so thats good news.

Those look perfect, Jay! How many months/weeks are you out?

Interesting about the blue line.  It is interesting to see how all bodies respond and can look differently as they heal, all getting to the same place in the end.

Quote from: FlightyBrood on March 09, 2014, 10:21:55 PM
they got back to me, and told me that sometimes this just happens. i was instructed to put neosporin on it and keep it covered up, and that a nurse will call me tomarrow about it.

its not a big deal apparently. wen i changed my tape today there was no more pus or grossness so thats good news.

Glad to hear it, FB.  What kind of tape are you putting on every day?  Is there anything between the tape and the skin?  What is the purpose of the tape?

Quote from: Brett on March 10, 2014, 08:21:44 AM
Those look perfect, Jay! How many months/weeks are you out?

Interesting about the blue line.  It is interesting to see how all bodies respond and can look differently as they heal, all getting to the same place in the end.

4+ months. I think they look pretty good but have obviously not "popped" as the nipple I think is a little inside or something. I think the I may have laid on something and so bruised it. It would probably be more prone to that.

Funny thing, there is a long discussion of nipple placements since I put  mine up. Coincidence, or just that there were a few pix of nipples lately.

It's a really silly word btw.

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on March 10, 2014, 05:59:07 PM
4+ months. I think they look pretty good but have obviously not "popped" as the nipple I think is a little inside or something. I think the I may have laid on something and so bruised it. It would probably be more prone to that.

Funny thing, there is a long discussion of nipple placements since I put  mine up. Coincidence, or just that there were a few pix of nipples lately.

It's a really silly word btw.

--Jay

I can see where you said the nipple hasn't popped in the first picture (if I look hard), but it looks like it has in the second?  The first one looks fine to me, anyway.

Quote from: Brett on March 10, 2014, 08:14:16 PM
I can see where you said the nipple hasn't popped in the first picture (if I look hard), but it looks like it has in the second?  The first one looks fine to me, anyway.

Yeah the left one looks fine. I think in some way the picture looks more out than the actual right nipple. I'm guessing they eventually come along. I've heard healing is actual a lot slower than you might think.

--Jay

I had my top surgery on the 29th of Jan. Had peri-areolar technique with Mr Yelland (though he rarely does it as he mostly do the DI) So i took the risk as he seems happy to do it. All went well and im happy how it came out. I did have an infection on one of my nipple 3/4 weeks in and was worried how it would look once it was gone and healed. But my infection went away quickly after having some antibiotic cream and tablets. So here it is 6 weeks post op.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi170.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu258%2Fbigfanfrodo%2FFTM%2F6weeks_zps6ba9db5f.jpg&hash=686d01f0953f7fefefae41044477cee2e6d70bb0) (http://s170.photobucket.com/user/bigfanfrodo/media/FTM/6weeks_zps6ba9db5f.jpg.html) 

Hey, Rex, it looks great!  Thanks for sharing!

Your chest looks really great, rexyrex!

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on March 14, 2014, 08:34:00 PM
Your chest looks really great, rexyrex!

Quote from: Brett on March 14, 2014, 08:19:16 PM
Hey, Rex, it looks great!  Thanks for sharing!

Thanks man, i went out a few days ago in just a t-shirt, i still feel like i have to hide it still and still feel like i have a lumps there but i will get use to it, just a weird feeling but also glad now they are gone.

Almost 9 weeks here and I got out of the shower and part of my incision line was puffed like a big white zit. I barely touched it and pus and blood came out. It was only a little spot along the line but I don't think it should be doing that. It was fine earlier.

Quote from: Alexthecat on March 15, 2014, 08:42:27 AM
Almost 9 weeks here and I got out of the shower and part of my incision line was puffed like a big white zit. I barely touched it and pus and blood came out. It was only a little spot along the line but I don't think it should be doing that. It was fine earlier.

It should be fine.  Just put a little antibiotic ointment on it and a bandage for two days.

1 week post op. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv386%2Fisnt_anything%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2F2014-03%2FBB2FD4DA-BBE0-49CB-834D-DB0DD1BFE7F4_zpsfepvox5c.jpg&hash=ed3b98d9d66dec492ebf0412a1f6060acc901868) (http://s.photobucket.com/user/isnt_anything/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-03/BB2FD4DA-BBE0-49CB-834D-DB0DD1BFE7F4_zpsfepvox5c.jpg.html)

Looks great, Darrin!  Your smile shows how thrilled you are!  Congrats!!!!!

Thanks for posting in the thread.

Wow, Darrin, you look amazing!!!  And I agree - so happy!  You have reason to be - your chest looks really great, nice and symmetrical (and flat haha)  8)

I love my chest. I was a 40g pre op. I have no dog ears either!

Quote from: Darrin Scott on March 19, 2014, 09:01:19 PM
I love my chest. I was a 40g pre op. I have no dog ears either!

You said your surgeon was good with bigger guys.  Good choice!

Quote from: Brett on March 19, 2014, 10:27:22 PM
You said your surgeon was good with bigger guys.  Good choice!

I know. Sorry to sound redundant. I'm just really excited. Thanks everyone for the nice words!

Your chest looks awesome, congrats! A 40 G before surgery? Wow, I'm sure that's a huge relief having them gone.

Your chest looks great, Darrin. That smile tells how happy you were.

Quote from: Darrin Scott on March 20, 2014, 04:06:27 PM
I know. Sorry to sound redundant. I'm just really excited. Thanks everyone for the nice words!

Not redundant at all.  I was just pointing out that you were correct and I was happy for you.  She did a great job!

Also, no worries...I couldn't stop talking about it for weeks I was so thrilled!  My friends were sick of me!

Such an awesome picture Darrin, you look so happy! :D

I totally thought I had my post op appointment today, I was waiting for the bus and everything about half an hour ago. Then I was just idly glancing at my letter and realised it's not for another two weeks xD why I thought it was today I really don't know.

On a semi-related note. I had a GIC appointment on monday, and she has given me the go ahead to start the process for getting hysto. I'll have an appointment in a couple of weeks with someone else from the clinic to get my formal second opinion and then the referral can be sent off....but I'm basically already approved, it's just so they can tick all the paperwork boxes :P Interestingly, she presented me with a whole bunch of options about which surgeon I wanted and which hospital I wanted to go to. I never had this option for my top surgery, it was just "you're going to this guy" - very strange. She said she would do her best to fit it in around the time of my summer vacation too, which is awesome.

I will also be able to get my new birth certificate at some point this year...it's all finally working out :D

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi807.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy356%2Fcap826%2Ftopsurgery_zps2fb8e24a.jpg&hash=9b2df14f76ab6afa405c3f74a36e9206083df50b) There are a bunch of pictures in between on my tumblr. Also I have a super detailed write up of my recovery.

Does anyone get a prickling sensation on the nipple grafts sometimes? I think it's from my shirt but its annoying and almost hurts. 

Quote from: Alexthecat on March 22, 2014, 06:57:15 AM
Does anyone get a prickling sensation on the nipple grafts sometimes? I think it's from my shirt but its annoying and almost hurts.

No, but I would when there were still those hard fishing line type stitches sticking out from the areolas.  You sure yours have all dissolved?  Look close with a magnifying mirror and clip, if needed.

Your pictures look great, anibioman.  I hope more people learn that Fischer does a great job with double incision, not just keyhole.

Quote from: Brett on March 22, 2014, 09:53:50 AM
No, but I would when there were still those hard fishing line type stitches sticking out from the areolas.  You sure yours have all dissolved?  Look close with a magnifying mirror and clip, if needed.

I looked and ran my finger around the areola but I don't see anything. I think it just does it to annoy me even when my shirt isn't touching. It's only poor lefty nipple, it's more bunched than righty nipple.

Awareness and Acceptance:

Ok, guys, so I am a bit slow on the uptake.  I have talked about my scars thickening and not really understanding this.  I have literally had either scar strips or silicone gel on at EVERY SINGLE MOMENT (except for one 8 hour period), since week two after my surgery.  Yes, you heard that right...24 hours a day, with constant precision, meticulous about it.  I haven't worked out, either.  So, I haven't understood why my scars look so different from everyone else's (worse), on this thread.  I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong.

Now I understand.  My scars are hypertrophic.  For some stupid reason I thought that all scars were either Keloid or Hypertrophic.  Meaning, I thought that hypertrophic was just another was of indicating visible scars.  Well, dumbass Brett, this is not the case.

SO, what I am looking at is thicker, wider scars than someone without this.  They say it could build up for up to two years, and then start to settle back down.  They are rope like.  Sucks.  Sucks.  Sucks. 

Strange though because the surgical scar on my stomach did not become hypertrophic.  I read that it mainly happens on the chest.

Anyway, you can note it on any of my pictures (first post).  They are now wider and thicker/heavier than that first post picture.  I will post a 6 month picture when I hit that mark in a couple of weeks.

The positive is I am no longer driving myself nuts trying to figure out what the hell is going on with my scars!  It's a shame because my OCD behavior would have made for some non-visible scars!

Sad day.  Oh well.  They should lighten over time (which they already are), and become more flat (not happening yet).  But, since they are so wide, they will always be pretty noticeable. 

(Almost) Six Week Update
(not until Wednesday, but I'm impatient...)

Just wanted to pop in and throw down some recent pictures! I'm now tape-free, nipple-bandaid free, and SO CLOSE to vest-free. Everything is closed (that I can see) and the only real "wounds" left are some ugly spots where the bandaids and tape were pulling my damn skin off. My nipples are doing AWESOME.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4h7m35HWTJE/Uy-lM4NDQcI/AAAAAAAABPI/M_5npo6uWJY/w737-h553-no/20140323_200506.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8yksxCNBjbk/Uy-lDy1hz2I/AAAAAAAABO8/QGaCxJlUIHA/w737-h553-no/20140323_200544.jpg)

Quote from: NathanExplosion on March 23, 2014, 10:31:24 PM
(Almost) Six Week Update
and the only real "wounds" left are some ugly spots where the bandaids and tape were pulling my damn skin off. My nipples are doing AWESOME.

same thing happened with my skin from the bandaids, don't worry it my take a long time but it will fade.

Brett you might look into management/treatment for hypertrophic scarring. Like the micropore tape. I have scars on my hand and wrist that did this. The one on my wrist is beginning to flatten out and fade now with treatment of the kelo cote gel and micropore tape. I apply the gel -once- a day when I change the tape and that's it. I only apply the gel to my chest twice a day and change the tape at the same time.

The scar on my leg that I talked about in an earlier post would have probably became hypertrophic without taping. The scar on my wrist was about six months old when I started treating it out of curiosity and the need to rub off the extra gel at times from my chest. I'd try and treat the scars on my hands but most of them would be a pain to keep taped hah.

Btw guys amazon sometimes has good deals on the kelo cote gel. Mine has lasted quite a while, it's the same bottle from April last year when I was treating my hysterectomy scars. A tiny bit goes a long way.

Brett, what treatments are available for hypertrophic scars?  Have you considered possibly getting a tattoo to cover over them at some stage in the future if you're still unsatisfied?

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on March 24, 2014, 01:23:29 AM
Brett, what treatments are available for hypertrophic scars?  Have you considered possibly getting a tattoo to cover over them at some stage in the future if you're still unsatisfied?

Hi, Kreuzfidel.  You mainly just do what you would do with regular scars.  They say to just keep the silicone on them and massage. 

You can also get cortizone (steroid) injections, but you run the risk of the scar becoming indented into the skin if too much is given. 

They are an excess of collagen.  I suppose my body overproduced what was needed for healing.  Massage breaks down the excess collagen, which is why massage is particularly good for these scars.

Interestingly, they often have blood vessels and nerves.

So, the hope is that eventually they will become as light and flat as any other scar, it will just take an extraordinarily long time.

I am just going to continue with scar strips and start doing massage again.  If this indeed is going to take a couple of years, Scar Away is certainly going to make some serious dough off of me!

I don't think I would ever get a tattoo in that area.

hey brett I have a little bit of a hypertrophic scar on my right side to the left of my nipple. You're not the only one. I've been trying my best to keep it flat with strips and stuff but it's not working. It just started to inflate last week so I kinda freaked out. If you find anything that works to reduce it please share and if I find something I'll be sure to post about it.

Hey, Sebryn.  Somehow I missed your reply.  I have appreciated you responding to me in the past.  Thank you for responding again with your thoughts.  I did do the micropore tape as you suggested previously.  My body seemed to just not want to keep it attached.  No matter what I did. 

I have read a lot of articles from academic journals.  All I see is just the information on use the silicone and massage when it comes to hypertrophic.  To be honest with you, with everything I have read, I have a hard time believing that micropore tape can keep a hypertrophic scar from happening, if that is what the body wants to do.  I had a colon resection and did not have a hypertrophic scar there.  The scar I got when they put my chemo port in (horizontal scar) was not hypertrophic.  The scar created to remove the port, (vertical scar), right under the first scar, became hypertrophic (which I just realized when I figured out that my DI scars were hypertrophic.  At the time, I assumed the scar was wider/more rasied due to just poor stitching by the surgeon when it came to the second scar).  Both of these are at the top of my left pec.  The hypertrophic vertical 3 year old scar has gone down considerably since I started putting silicone treatment on it beginning when I started my DI scar treatment.  I am quite pleased.  The non-hypertrophic horizontal scar was already beautifically healed.  I just used Scar Gaurd periodically on that scar.

Hypertrophic scars occur most often on the chest.  That is probably why my colon resection scars did not become hypertrophic.

antiobioman, try to not get too upset about it.  Be conscious of using the silicone gel or silicone strips.  The reality is we have no control over this if this is what our bodies want to do.  In the end, they will fade and flatten, it will just take longer than scars that are not hypertrophic.  Silicone and massage.  That is the treatment.  Not to be negative, but they may get worse.  Mine did. 

I tried every combination imaginable to try to manage this.  Silicone gel.  Siiligone sheets.  Massage.  No massage.  Different combinations, including time of day and order of treatment.  Here's the thing, if the body feels a need to create hypertrophic scars, it will.  This is the only conclusion I can come to and what the academbic literature supports.

Usually hypertrophic scars start around week 2-3 and continue from there.  I am at 6 months tomorrow, actually (I just realized this), and they really widened the last couple of weeks.  Like I said, I can only do what I can do.  I am trying to have a good attitude about it.  I am lucky that I had top surgery.  Anything else is minor.

As always, thanks for listening, guys.

I was thinking about you guys having scar problems again today and I remembered seeing something about using a tool that looks like a small paint roller but with acupuncture looking needles on it to help with scaring. I can't find the article I read now but I just thought I'd pass that along. Maybe professional massage? Seeing a dermatologist might help also, they might have some ideas beyond the cortisone injections.

I've heard of this Brett, don't really know if it worth it. There are also salon type places that will do this on a maybe larger basis. I found out about a place that will do this. Am not at this point interested but it might be something for the future. Don't really know much about it actually.

--Jay

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaalright gents! heres my Six Week Update (Dr.Horowitz, Lagoona Beach CA)

Theyre sideways because i was playing fallout and couldnt be bothered to get up. Its two AM!
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NL4xm-UWJPE/UzPgLZyy25I/AAAAAAAACWw/ZFn8BHA3XVQ/w324-h577-no/IMAG0190.jpg)
Youll notice ive got a band aid over one of my incisions. I had some pus things that would pop up. I was told to drain em, put peroxide on them one time and cover them with a band aid and some antibacterial ointment. MOST went away in three days, but of course the last one is always a doozy, and its still around. HUGE, like a centemeter wide but its nearly healed up completely so. Alls well with that.

You might also notice that my nipples still have scabs attached....they wont come off and i dont want to tug on them. ive been keeping band aids on over them 24-7 for the past six weeks. theyre fully healed but the scabs are just stuck. Any ideas on getting them off? ive cleaned them off a TON, there was a ton more on the areola but theyre gone now. Not too worried really.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-gtQFqTaaJ1M/UzPgOeaGKGI/AAAAAAAACW8/DZgf8KSUkF0/w324-h577-no/IMAG0191.jpg)

GREAT picture of the scars themselves, close up. They look a LOT wider and darker in the picture than they do in real life. A LOT. some spots theyre barely noticable. I keep micropore tape on them most of the time, save for showers and right now i just dont feel like having it on. Other than that i wear the tape. Its not too bad and theyve lightened a TON already. I am very pleased.

Still have some swelling on the right side. its going down very, very, very slowly but its MUCH better than it WAS. Ive already regained some feeling in my nipples. More in the left than the right. Its awesome cause i was SUPER worried about losing feeling, or the nipple all together. they came out just fine, we didnt even have any problems...useless worrying. My specialty! Current worry: Hypertrophic scars. I feel for you Brett! Things will get better though, ill see what i can dig up about them. Maybe try laser treatment if thats an option for you...

So thats about it, i think. Im pretty much healed up and i feel great! No more vest starting tomarrow (just in time-we leave for our celebratory vegas trip tomarrow!) and once this swelling goes down im done. Everything looks AMAZING, some random pains still but thats fine with me.

Looking fantastic, Flighty!!!  I'm really amazed - the result is awesome and you should be really proud  ;D

Regarding the scabs, don't pull them if they're not coming easily.  I've read that some guys here put Vaseline or antibiotic gel on the nips, covered them with large bandaids and that moistened them enough that the scabs came off.

Hey, guys.  Thanks so very much for the support.  Thanks for another idea, Sebryn.  Interesting concept.  I think for right now I will let the body do it's thing.  I don't think I will be going without a shirt for a time, so I do have the time (even if it stinks!).  But again, ideas from anyone is greatly appreciated!  Mr. Clone, as always, I appreciate your input!

FB, I would strongly suggest you let the scab over the nipple just be.  Mine were still on there probably 2 weeks after there were no scabs over the areolas.  The body heals itself.  No reason to get them off early.  Our bodies know when scabs should come off.  I wouldn't do anything to speed the process along.  Long term gain for short term pain (well, not pain exactly...you know what I mean!).

Also, FB, I can't believe it has been six weeks!  i think you are in the clear when it comes to hypertrophic scarring.  The process usually starts at 2-3 weeks.  Mine seems to come in slowly.  Keloids come in much later, but unless you have had keloid scarring before this, no worries on that one!  Your chest looks great.  Congrats to you! 

Nathan, you are looking like some seriously healthy healing, as well!  Good areola placement and size for you chest, me thinks!  Congrats on a great chest!

The scabs were already peeling off, and i poked a bit and off they came! they look pretty good, theyre a bit puffy but i assume this goes away with time. ill post pictures...sometime. im off to do my t shot and go to vegas!

thanks for all your help with healing, guys. pretty sure i wouldnt be nearly as well off as i am without it! i LOVE the work, everything about it, i have no complaints! cant wait to see whats next in this

-FB

Update - 9 weeks post-op

Surgery Date: 23 January 2014
Surgery Type:  Bilateral Subcutaneous Mastectomy - left nipple stalk preserved, right nipple free grafted
Location:  Sydney, Australia
Surgeon:  Dr. Megan Hassall

So I've included two photos taken today - I'm now 9 weeks post-op. 

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi762.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx266%2FMouse5479%2F9weeks2.jpg&hash=2437769ef1052df9d85764cbadeadeee0f2c548b)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi762.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx266%2FMouse5479%2F9weeks1.jpg&hash=8f3f08af2ee51ec783b6da1ca54f7095215d5e5e)

Some of the "wrinkles" or creases that I was previously complaining about have smoothed out a bit - but they're still there.  I think that time is the only thing that will tell what the ultimate outcome of it will be.

It's not perfect - there are some "dents" and lumps - but it's still heaps early, so I will reserve judgment on the final look after about a year - then, if I need a revision, I need a revision.

Overall, I'm bloody happy with the result.  My troublesome right (grafted) nipple is no longer an issue - it's completely healed up now.  I was pretty worried about it for a while.  My incisions are still thin, no stretching *knock on wood* or keloids forming.  I'm now working on getting into shape - I've started a weight training program and hope to develop my pecs a lot more so that the look isn't quite so "hollow" in the few "dented" spots.  But yes...quite happy.  8)

You're looking GREAT, Kreuzfidel.  Hassall really did a good job.  I can already see where you are getting some muscle development from working out, based on your last pictures.  Can't see a dent or lump from here!  Do you have sensation in the areola/nipple stalk was preserved?  That is the hope, right?

I am glad that you gave us an update along with picture.

How was it going back to work for you?  I believe you said you had 6 weeks off?  Do you have a physical job?

Quote from: Brett on March 28, 2014, 10:20:10 AM
You're looking GREAT, Kreuzfidel.  Hassall really did a good job.  I can already see where you are getting some muscle development from working out, based on your last pictures.  Can't see a dent or lump from here!

Thanks heaps, Brett!  Really made my day (work's been stressful and just feeling bleh), so thankies thankies  ;D

Quote from: Brett on March 28, 2014, 10:20:10 AMDo you have sensation in the areola/nipple stalk was preserved?  That is the hope, right?

That's definitely the hope, but no sensation yet. 

Quote from: Brett on March 28, 2014, 10:20:10 AMHow was it going back to work for you?  I believe you said you had 6 weeks off?  Do you have a physical job?

It wasn't too bad - I had light duties for the first couple of weeks.  After this week I'll be going back to doing my usual (which does involve a little heavy lifting twice a week).  Luckily it's mostly a desk job except when I'm on the floor.

Interesting stuff to share:

So, I got home today from the Keystone Trans Conference in Harrisburg, PA.  I met Dr. Kathy Rumer today, the surgeon who did Darrin Scott's chest.  I introduced myself after her talk because one staff person she had with her is the person who does all the skin work, including scars, for the practice.  They were kind enough to take a quick look at my chest even though I was not signed up for an actual "consultation".

Well, you know it is never a good sign when the surgeon's eyes widen.  >-bleeped-<.  Bottom line, she was surprised at the hypertrophic scarring.  Just surprised it happened.  Also was surprised that there was so much of it, so to speak.  Asked what my surgeon said about it.  I told her I haven't contacted him.  I had read that hypertrophic scarring never had anything to do with the surgeon, just what the body does and I would assume he wouldn't admit it if it was his fault anyway.  She looked closely and actually asked if he did internal stitches or did I have staples or something?  It seemed as if she was actually confused as to how this could have happened.  When I asked her if it could have been his work that created the hypertrophic scarring (and not just what one's body does), she got skiddish and said that she can't comment on another surgeon's work, you know because she doesn't know exactly what his surgical process was.  :-(  So, ummmmm, yeah...

The whole thing was so fast because she had people waiting and was kind enough to see me right after her presentation.  It was actually QUITE kind of her being that her office is an hour away from me and I chose to travel over 1,000 miles from my home for my surgery instead of just going to her.  She could have told me to f*ck off.

Anyway, she says that at one year post op, the woman who does the skin work, can start doing some laser and such to help fix it.  I am just guessing it is laser, I didn't want to hold her up, so I didn't really ask any questions.  I mainly just wanted to confirm that it was hypertrophic scarring and find out when it would make sense for me to seek out scar treatment (if I decide to do so).

I really didn't think that what I had was that unusual.  Her face was also a bit humorous looking back.  You would think she would have thought to hide her shock!  lol

As an aside, she was a great person, great personality.  I won't say I am sorry I went to Garramone, no matter what happens with the scarring, as his contouring is spot on, and that is what is most important to me (and the areolas!), but as a person, she was great.  If there is anything else I might want plastic surgery wise, I would check into her.

I plan to take some pictures and send them to Garramone.  Evidently, Rumer will work on your scars for free if you get your surgery from her.  That's pretty awesome.  I don't know what Garramone will say.  I mean, is there really anything to say?  Sorry, for your luck, mate?

I do feel like I am taking it all in stride though.  I just keep returning to my happiness that I got this done.  Also, I do believe that it will all work out in the end.  The width of the scar will always be there, but I should be able to get this thick scar at least flattened and lighter in color (I hope).

The silicone strips do seem to help with the scar getting lighter and I suppose may have kept the scar from getting even worse than it could have been.

Will post a picture tomorrow.  I am 24 weeks (6 months) post op this week, plus with me talking about my scars so much, I should put up a pic for you guys to see, anyway.

Brett, that would be good to see a photo if you're okay to post one - just to have context, I suppose.

I think it was good to have another doctor's opinion of your chest, though.  Even though Garramone has yet to weigh in, you will have another perspective (even if it was just a reaction and an insinuation).  Hopefully Garramone will have some suggestions for you.  I also think it will all work out in the end - even if you have to travel to see a specialist. 

My understanding is that scar repair is a separate speciality kind of. I don't know if Dr G does this. I have not heard that he does but then again, I don't know. I have never heard that it was the surgeon's fault and that the body does odd things during healing sometimes. Like the guy I know who's body spit out half the stitches! Also if it were his technique, wouldn't he have tons of guys with hypertropic scarring?

BTW, I think Dr Rumer has a much more varied practice than Dr G, and does a little of all sorts of things including GCS/SRS and has cis patients as well. AFAIK, Dr G does only FTM top surgery and the occasional lipo (on trans men).

BTW, speaking of odd stuff, my scars are black and blue on the incision line (still). My PA was going to look into it, but she hasn't yet, otoh, I have a weighed blanket, and wondering if I lie across it wrong. It has these little plastic beads in it and I wonder if it could have injured me.

Kruez: You look great!!!

--Jay

Jay and Kreuzfidel,

Thanks for the constant support.  I feel like we have been going through this together.  I has been cool to have gotten to know the two of you.

Yes, Jay, Dr. Rumer does many different surgeries and FTM top surgery is certainly not her main focus.  However, any kind of surgery gives scars, so she would know about hypertrophic scarring.  I think it is notable that she was surprised and curious about this having happened, so it is not something I can just push aside based on the fact that FTM Top Surgery is not her specialty.

You are right about scar work being a specialty.  She has a professional (I don't know what her credentials are) skin person who does that specifically for her.  They were both there when I showed them my chest.

It's weird, I just said to my girlfriend, that I prefer to think that Garramone's hand had nothing to do with it.  I suppose I like to keep him in my head as a Master of sorts!  I just didn't like the fact that 3 times Rumer avoided answering my question as to whether or not the surgeon's work itself could cause hypertrophic scarring.  You are right though, he does 500 a year, so why haven't we heard about this before?  On the other hand, the guy can't do things perfectly all the time, can he?  Maybe he cut too much of my skin and pulled too tight?  I don't know, just trying to make sense of it.

I don't know if I will get any kind of treatment for the scars.  I read stories about the steriod shots and lasering and such not really working on these scars.  Some people say it makes things worse.  I am glad that she said wait another 6 months.  That was my original plan, anyway.  I might email her with a couple questions after I email Garramone.  I hope he is responsive to my concerns and can give me some thoughts as to why this might have happened.  I'm sure that will make me feel better.

I will get some pictures up.  Carry on, Gents!

P.S. If anyone knows of any videos of hypertrophic scars on FTM top surgeries, I would appreciate you passing them along.  I can't find anything on youtube, but I may not be the best "searcher".

EDIT: I did see http://neutrois.me/2013/02/26/top-surgery-2-years-post-op/ has the same problem, though.

EDIT AGAIN: looks like he put up a 3 year update.  http://neutrois.me/2014/03/21/top-surgery-3-years/  Check out the progression of 1-3 years.

I can see my scars going this same road.  Could be worse, I think!

I'm Micah, the one who wrote the posts linked above.

The number one thing I recommend for hypertrophic scarring is cortisone injections. By far this made the biggest difference. Within a few days (days!) the scars flattened. This has the side effect that they widen and stretch (given finite space, the tissue has to go somewhere I guess), which didn't bother me as much as the raised texture was.

Take a look at my 5-month update photos (http://"http://neutrois.me/2011/07/25/top-surgery-update-5-months-post-op/") to see the hypertrophic scars up close. I had my first shot 7 months post-op, and had 3 rounds in total a few months apart. If you look at month 10 vs month 12 in the 1 year post (http://"http://neutrois.me/2012/02/21/top-surgery-1-year-post-op/"), you can see a huge difference in the coloring and texture; I probably had that 2nd cortisone shot somewhere in between.

The second booster was the silicone gel. Objectively it's hard to measure the effect of this, but for the periods when I stopped using it my scars would swell up and start to raise again. When applying, my partner massaged my scars for 5 mins every time. I'm still applying this sporadically, even after 3 years.

The third element was laser. There are different kinds of laser, and the first try was an new one the dermatologist was experimenting with which did nothing. The second one he tried was Intense Pulse Light (3 rounds), worked very well to improve the coloring. That is, it turned them from a deep purple and bright red to light reddish, closer to skin tone.

I've also researched the pin-prick roller and it sounds painful, though the "reviews" are promising. I'd rather get a professional massage at some point.

In general, the sooner you treat scars the better, though I'm 3 years in and still seeking treatments and still seeing results.

The last factor is time. I think we don't see enough pictures of 5-10+ year post-op chests. I'm confident that my scars will eventually fade, they're just going to take a lot longer to get there.

Hi, Micah.  You may have guessed, but I am the "Just another guy", who wrote on your blog.  It does make sense that flattening means becoming more wide.

In terms of scar management, these guys here know that I am have been obsessive with my silicone strips and silicone gel.  24 hours a day, I never miss a beat.  I think/assume that this is the reason why they are fortunately pink in color.

I see how massaging makes a difference.  Lately, I have been massaging at night with jojoba oil, and then putting on the gel before bed.  They are flatter in the morning.  However, I am wondering if that is a function of me laying horizonatally/no upright moving around, so there is less blood moving around there.  Ok, maybe sounds stupid, but I know that the hypertrophic scars have blood vessels in them.  Did you notice the same thing?  I only started noticing it since I have been massaging the last week or two.

You may have seen in my post that Dr. Rumer said that I shouldn't consider scar treatment until one year.  I read that in most places, as well.  Where did you get your information that said otherwise?

Thanks for your response here, as well as on your blog.

Surgery Date: 10/10/14 (24 weeks/6 months)
Surgery: Double Incision with nipple grafts
Surgeon: Garramone
Scar Treatment:  Scar Away Strips/Scar Away Gel.  Used 24 hours a day, every day, beginning week 3.
Testosterone: No
Strength Training: No


You will note the hypertrophic scarring.  The scars are raised and thick.  They are worse, rather than better, if you compare to my first picture (Opening Post), when I was at 3 months.  Thickening started happening at 3 weeks and has increased over time.

Scars are significantly lighter than they appear in below pictures taken with iPhone 3 camera.  They are a light pink.

I continue to have a slight puffiness under my right armpit.  I am very pleased with my areolas/nipples.  Still some jagged edges on the areolas, which should continue to disappear.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi769.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx338%2Fclearle%2Fphoto21_zps9f56b7c7.jpg&hash=dcc23c2f4c867c430872f68f468419071f04d4c6)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi769.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx338%2Fclearle%2Fphoto20_zpsa7741888.jpg&hash=fc175041b5e176489728c996b37d57519703f75b)

Ok, now I put 2 and 2 together Brett!  ;D

The blood flow fluctuation is a good theory. Mine are usually more red and swollen after exercising, for example, and flatter in the morning.

Scar treatment isn't an exact science, every person and doctor will give you different advice, so just do your research and conclude what you think is best. For instance I think that most oils or creams don't actually work beyond just moisturizing your scars. I used vitamin-e stuff for a while and personally felt it was counterproductive; then again the Castor Oil seems to be helping a little. A lot of it might also be individual reactions to different products. The general advice I heard most often is to treat them the sooner the better, though you should wait until the incisions are fully healed (so don't put anything on them until ~8-12 weeks post-op!).

Another useful tidbit that I learned is that the surgeon can inject cortisone directly into the incision in the OR when they close it up, so if you suspect you are prone to hypertrophic scars ask about this option (although in my case, I had no idea). My doctor did this for my hysto scars and even though they are tiny it was a good precaution, I can barely see those anymore.

Feel free to email me if you want more info, but I think I laid out all I know here already! :laugh:

Thank you, Micah.  Yes, I don't expect that the jojoba oil will actually improve the scars, I am only using it for lubrication.  I understand that jojoba is good for our skin, so that is why I chose this one.

Interesting information on being able to inject cortisone at the time of surgery.

I actually had a colon resection which means I had a cut (actually they had to do it twice) from above my belly button down to the top of where my pubic hair starts in 8/2010.  No hypertrophic scars that time.  So weird.

Last thing, your understanding is that there is never a case of surgeon error that causes these scars, correct?  Were your stitches internal?

Hey Micah buddy! :)  Glad to see you here (so to speak). Sounds like you gave my clone Brett some good advise, for which I thank you. Want my clone happy. :)
Brett, you look good, think that you should go for the cortisone shots (I mean it's what I would do). Actually the scars look a bit like our other clone on youtube. I have certainly seen these scars from different surgeons.

BTW, Dr Rumer does top surgery, but not too many I think. Has a varied practice, and I know someone getting her GCS/SRS from her (I think).

Yes, Brett feel like we've sat around for hours talking.

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on March 30, 2014, 04:17:27 PM
Hey Micah buddy! :)  Glad to see you here (so to speak). Sounds like you gave my clone Brett some good advise, for which I thank you. Want my clone happy. :)
Brett, you look good, think that you should go for the cortisone shots (I mean it's what I would do). Actually the scars look a bit like our other clone on youtube. I have certainly seen these scars from different surgeons.

BTW, Dr Rumer does top surgery, but not too many I think. Has a varied practice, and I know someone getting her GCS/SRS from her (I think).

Yes, Brett feel like we've sat around for hours talking.

--Jay

I agree that this is how our friend's looks.  I have thought this before.  His appear a bit wider on his videos then mine, actually.  You really don't think it looks too bad?  Maybe I built it up to seem worse.

I know Rumer does top surgery.  That is why I felt like a douce bag asking her for advice on my scars...here she is an hour away from me and I didn't go to her...only to ask her for advice/help later! 

Darrin (on this thread) went to her.  I think his chest looks good.   

I did have my surgery with Dr. Rumer and no, she's doesn't do top surgery primarily, but I'm very happy with my chest. I think it fits my body very well and I have no complaints. There are some pros to her not only doing top surgery. I had one on one attention, she is always available to answer my questions and we are able to speak a lot before and after the surgery about my expectations going into surgery.

I would highly recommend looking into her for someone who wants surgery. I'm not trying to sound like an infomercial here, but there seems to be an idea that because she doesn't do top surgery primarily that she isn't as good as other surgeons or is no good at all. This simply isn't the case and I feel like I have to say something about that.

As far as her not commenting on another surgeons work, I don't think you really can as each surgeon does the surgery different. Plus, if it gets back that she said something against another surgeon it could affect her reputation as a surgeon herself.

Yes, Darrin, I certainly understood why she would hesitate to comment on another surgeon's work.  There is more than one reason.

I found her to be incredibly personable and I found myself thinking that I understood why you chose her for your surgeon.

I can see her as wanting to be very accessible, as well.

------------------------

Ok, guys, so I sent an email to Garramone, so I will see what he has to say.  I originally had it in my head that I wouldn't do the cortisone shots because of the possibility of indentation of the skin (bad effect of tx).  I figured I would wait and see.  Then after reading what neutrois said and doing some research, some surgeons say to get on it right away and start injections, and some say to wait and see.  Regardless as to what Garramone says, I am not sure how I am going to decide with all the differing opinions out there!

ugh.

Quote from: Brett on March 30, 2014, 03:58:28 PM
Surgery Date: 10/10/14 (24 weeks/6 months)
Surgery: Double Incision with nipple grafts
Surgeon: Garramone
Scar Treatment:  Scar Away Strips/Scar Away Gel.  Used 24 hours a day, every day, beginning week 3.
Testosterone: No
Strength Training: No


You will note the hypertrophic scarring.  The scars are raised and thick.  They are worse, rather than better, if you compare to my first picture (Opening Post), when I was at 3 months.  Thickening started happening at 3 weeks and has increased over time.

Scars are significantly lighter than they appear in below pictures taken with iPhone 3 camera.  They are a light pink.

I continue to have a slight puffiness under my right armpit.  I am very pleased with my areolas/nipples.  Still some jagged edges on the areolas, which should continue to disappear.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi769.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx338%2Fclearle%2Fphoto21_zps9f56b7c7.jpg&hash=dcc23c2f4c867c430872f68f468419071f04d4c6)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi769.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx338%2Fclearle%2Fphoto20_zpsa7741888.jpg&hash=fc175041b5e176489728c996b37d57519703f75b)

Brett, your scars don't look nearly as bad as I was thinking based on your descriptions previously.  I know that you are self-conscious of them, but for what it's worth - they don't look too bad to me.

Overall, your chest is amazing!  I really think you've got something to be proud of there, mate. 

Do you think that the puffiness under your arm is swelling, even at this stage? 

*By the way, did Garramone get back to you?

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on April 02, 2014, 08:22:49 PM
Brett, your scars don't look nearly as bad as I was thinking based on your descriptions previously.  I know that you are self-conscious of them, but for what it's worth - they don't look too bad to me.

Overall, your chest is amazing!  I really think you've got something to be proud of there, mate. 

Do you think that the puffiness under your arm is swelling, even at this stage? 

*By the way, did Garramone get back to you?

Thanks, Kreuzfidel.  Thanks for bolstering me up a bit.  I do need to focus on the positive.  The shape is very good.

I don't know if it is swelling or not.  I would say no, but people say there is a whole year before it goes down.  I think Jay (who also had Garramone), still has some.  It is where are drains were.  I would think that if it were something that didn't go away more people would talk about it (if both Jay and I have it, must be common from Garramone, or drains in general?).

Maybe a better way to look at it is that it is not swelling that has to go down, but rather it is skin that still has to retract.  Don't know.  That drain was a very painful one for me.

I have not heard from Garramone.  I emailed him Sunday night asking for a call.  Today is Wednesday night.  I suppose I will have to put in a call.  I assume he will just say, sorry dude, it happens.  What I am curious about is if he thinks I should wait on treatment (as Rumer suggested, but as we know that was a fast and quick conversation), or if I shouldget some cortisone shots now.  My research has found mixed results.  My preference is to wait and see what happens.  Only one or two random surgeons have made the statement that getting treatment sooner rather than later is wise (and neutrois/micah said this).

For me, hearing that the cortisone shots result in the scars widening (they are flattening against the body, so they would have to), makes me unhappy.  I would prefer to have raised scars than wider scars.  I really would prefer that my body do the healing.  Eventually they go down.  I like to think that when they do, they will just soften and shrink so to speak, no widening.  Maybe that makes no sense. 

I understand that they could continue to "grow" up to a year.  They will start to go down after that.  My hope is that with constant silicone treatment I can keep them from getting worse, or at least stunt their growth.  I have been thinking about the cost of this, though.  I am guessing I am spending about $40 in scar treatment per month.  Also, being hyper conscious of always having something on 24/7 is draining, as well.

I am now massaging every day.  Sometimes twice a day.  That is really important for these scars. 

If Garramone tells me I should get some treatment now I will feel in a pickle.  I would rather wait, but I respect his opinion.  Bottom line, I'm not sure what I would do.

I don't want to bother him, but I think I will give his office a call.  I really thought I might hear from him today, as Wednesdays are his consult days, so he is not in surgery.

I never email a doctor on Saturday or Sunday. These emails just get lost in a glut of emails that come on Monday morning. So you might try again.

Puffiness or swelling under the arm is pretty common, my understanding. I thought it was up to 6 months but I have actually heard longer.

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on April 02, 2014, 10:47:27 PM
I never email a doctor on Saturday or Sunday. These emails just get lost in a glut of emails that come on Monday morning. So you might try again.

Puffiness or swelling under the arm is pretty common, my understanding. I thought it was up to 6 months but I have actually heard longer.

--Jay

LOl  I actually said a year because I thought you were the one who said that in a post once.  I suspect skin elasticity.  Maybe it won't go back since I am 44.  I dunno.  I plan to ask Garramone when I talk to him.  Excellent point about weekend emails getting lost in the shuffle.

Our six (actually seven) week post op is today, so I'm mostly posting to remind myself to post the results on that... everything is healed up and looking fantastic for me, but we'll see what he says about FB who is still having some little cyst-like things.

I almost thought I wouldn't make it because I thought I had a check engine light - turned out to just be a low tire pressure light... doh.

Quote from: Brett on April 03, 2014, 06:32:16 AM
LOl  I actually said a year because I thought you were the one who said that in a post once.  I suspect skin elasticity.  Maybe it won't go back since I am 44.  I dunno.  I plan to ask Garramone when I talk to him.  Excellent point about weekend emails getting lost in the shuffle.

You can also call, and then they'll tell you what to do. I got a email lost because I sent a picture to his "picture" address.

Okay would be interested in hearing about the swelling in older guys.


--Jay

I think it's always best to call. Emails get lost. I always actually call my surgeon with any issues and email pictures if requested.

Quote from: Darrin Scott on April 03, 2014, 02:38:05 PM
I think it's always best to call. Emails get lost. I always actually call my surgeon with any issues and email pictures if requested.

I agree.

My post-op emails were completely ignored by my surgeon's office no matter what day of the week I sent them on.  The only time they looked at them was when I rang and queried why I'd not had a response.

Seven week post op went great! I'll post some pictures later. We've gotten to the point now that they're pushing other expensive stuff on us, though, lol. They convinced us to get a ($97 - OUCH) bottle of Biocorneum, but it should last a long time. Anyone here have any experience with it? I'm reading fantastic reviews but it seems like there are a handful of people it didn't work too well for.

Quote from: NathanExplosion on April 05, 2014, 12:59:15 PM
Seven week post op went great! I'll post some pictures later. We've gotten to the point now that they're pushing other expensive stuff on us, though, lol. They convinced us to get a ($97 - OUCH) bottle of Biocorneum, but it should last a long time. Anyone here have any experience with it? I'm reading fantastic reviews but it seems like there are a handful of people it didn't work too well for.

I researched it a bit.  The only thing that I can see how this is different from any other silicone gel is that it includes SPF30.  It makes sense you would read good reviews as it is a silicone gel, which is the only treatment that has been proven to help with scars.

The question for you is if the extra cost is worth it for the SPF 30.  Personally, I wouldn't open it, take it back to my plastic surgeon, and order the >$20 Scar Away gel online.  Your chest shouldn't be out in the sun for over 12 months, anyway.

Sorry to be harsh, but I figured I would just be direct.  It pisses me off to see people taken advantage of (which I think this product does), especially young guys like you who don't have the extra cash to waste.

Quote from: Brett on April 05, 2014, 04:41:22 PM
I researched it a bit.  The only thing that I can see how this is different from any other silicone gel is that it includes SPF30.  It makes sense you would read good reviews as it is a silicone gel, which is the only treatment that has been proven to help with scars.

The question for you is if the extra cost is worth it for the SPF 30.  Personally, I wouldn't open it, take it back to my plastic surgeon, and order the >$20 Scar Away gel online.  Your chest shouldn't be out in the sun for over 12 months, anyway.

Sorry to be harsh, but I figured I would just be direct.  It pisses me off to see people taken advantage of (which I think this product does), especially young guys like you who don't have the extra cash to waste.

Well, honestly, I sprung for the biggest size so the amount we got for the $90 is enough for MONTHS for the two of us, so overall I think the price wasn't too bad comparatively. I'm seeing $20-$25 for a twelve week supply of Scar Away (so six weeks for each of us.) I am seeing people paying double or triple that for this amount of Biocorneum though so I would definitely say it doesn't sound worth it then.

Quote from: NathanExplosion on April 05, 2014, 05:03:26 PM
Well, honestly, I sprung for the biggest size so the amount we got for the $90 is enough for MONTHS for the two of us, so overall I think the price wasn't too bad comparatively. I'm seeing $20-$25 for a twelve week supply of Scar Away (so six weeks for each of us.) I am seeing people paying double or triple that for this amount of Biocorneum though so I would definitely say it doesn't sound worth it then.

Ok, well glad you got a good deal on price. 

Hey guys,

New to the thread and have enjoyed reading all of your inputs. I am currently 18 days post opt. I had minimal pain the first week. After my first week I had a follow up appointment where they took the tape off my skin and cleaned everything up. This is what hurt the most. The nurse said it happened to be because of my skin type. The tape (durapore tape/silk tape) was stuck on there like no other. So all of that is what caused the most pain. I went to work after having a week off and was surprised how tired my body still was. I could only last about 6 hours at most before my body would shut down. I wasn't in pain per say but my body just felt drained. Luckily my job was extremely supportive and allowed me to leave early.

I was able to drive about a week and a half out but just to short distances. Also, going into my third week ice been getting better and better everyday. I couldn't and still can't carry a briefcase. I actually just carry a backpack for not. It's easier to distribute the weight and also it's doesn't have a strap going across my nipple like my briefcase did.

I had my surgery with Dr. Peter Raphael in Plano, TX. I am extremely satisfied with my results. I had a bilateral mastectomy with free nipple grafts and liposuction. He was amazing along with his staff. I have sent a couple of emails and received a response on the same day with a phone call. It also was nice to not have to deal with drains.

I'm posting from my cell. But when I get the chance I'll post a picture of my progress. Wishing everyone a quick recovery.

Quote from: AStrikes on April 08, 2014, 12:49:35 AM
Hey guys,

New to the thread and have enjoyed reading all of your inputs. I am currently 18 days post opt. I had minimal pain the first week. After my first week I had a follow up appointment where they took the tape off my skin and cleaned everything up. This is what hurt the most. The nurse said it happened to be because of my skin type. The tape (durapore tape/silk tape) was stuck on there like no other. So all of that is what caused the most pain. I went to work after having a week off and was surprised how tired my body still was. I could only last about 6 hours at most before my body would shut down. I wasn't in pain per say but my body just felt drained. Luckily my job was extremely supportive and allowed me to leave early.

I was able to drive about a week and a half out but just to short distances. Also, going into my third week ice been getting better and better everyday. I couldn't and still can't carry a briefcase. I actually just carry a backpack for not. It's easier to distribute the weight and also it's doesn't have a strap going across my nipple like my briefcase did.

I had my surgery with Dr. Peter Raphael in Plano, TX. I am extremely satisfied with my results. I had a bilateral mastectomy with free nipple grafts and liposuction. He was amazing along with his staff. I have sent a couple of emails and received a response on the same day with a phone call. It also was nice to not have to deal with drains.

I'm posting from my cell. But when I get the chance I'll post a picture of my progress. Wishing everyone a quick recovery.

Hi, AStrikes! 

Welcome to the thread and the site. 

Thank you for being so thorough in your post.  We like that (ok, maybe I am the only OCD one around here....).

Interesting to hear about removing the tape.  Raphael uses that quilting technique.  I wonder if that is why it hurt.  Also, I have never heard of tape getting removed after week one.  It would be great if you could post pictures with the tape on, so we can see what that looks like.  Also, of course, it will be great to see how your chest looks now.

Glad it hear it went so well and that you liked Raphael.  No one else who has posted on this thread has gone to him, but I have always heard of him being a respected surgeon. 

Glad to have you here!

Quote from: Brett on April 08, 2014, 06:16:06 AM

Thank you for being so thorough in your post.  We like that (ok, maybe I am the only OCD one around here....).

Interesting to hear about removing the tape.  Raphael uses that quilting technique.  I wonder if that is why it hurt.  Also, I have never heard of tape getting removed after week one.  It would be great if you could post pictures with the tape on, so we can see what that looks like.  Also, of course, it will be great to see how your chest looks now.

Glad to have you here!

I saw a video where someone (not sure it was Dr Raphael) removed the tape on the video. I was changing the bandages over the drain holes and didn't see what I was doing. I accidentally pulled tape off the incision. Yikes did that hurt! So I can't imagine this, but perhaps there are ways to do that might hurt less.
I know several people that went to him. There is a local guy here that does top surgery, but some people go to Texas as it is close to NM. (I didn't feel it mattered once air fare and hotel were involved, but some guys have driven there.) Glad you were happy with him.

Brett, I hate to let you know you are NOT the only OCD guy here. LOL
Welcome AStrikes!


--Jay

Quote from: AStrikes on April 08, 2014, 12:49:35 AM
Hey guys,

New to the thread and have enjoyed reading all of your inputs. I am currently 18 days post opt. I had minimal pain the first week. After my first week I had a follow up appointment where they took the tape off my skin and cleaned everything up. This is what hurt the most. The nurse said it happened to be because of my skin type. The tape (durapore tape/silk tape) was stuck on there like no other. So all of that is what caused the most pain. I went to work after having a week off and was surprised how tired my body still was. I could only last about 6 hours at most before my body would shut down. I wasn't in pain per say but my body just felt drained. Luckily my job was extremely supportive and allowed me to leave early.

I was able to drive about a week and a half out but just to short distances. Also, going into my third week ice been getting better and better everyday. I couldn't and still can't carry a briefcase. I actually just carry a backpack for not. It's easier to distribute the weight and also it's doesn't have a strap going across my nipple like my briefcase did.

I had my surgery with Dr. Peter Raphael in Plano, TX. I am extremely satisfied with my results. I had a bilateral mastectomy with free nipple grafts and liposuction. He was amazing along with his staff. I have sent a couple of emails and received a response on the same day with a phone call. It also was nice to not have to deal with drains.

I'm posting from my cell. But when I get the chance I'll post a picture of my progress. Wishing everyone a quick recovery.

Good to hear of someone else that didn't do drains! I didn't actually know how uncommon that was until after I found out I wasn't having drains either, so I'm excited to see your results.

Hey, whenever I post and error pops up so that is become frustrating. Also, I don;t know how to post an image. Everytime I do I get a broken image logo. help?

11 Weeks Post-Op

Surgeon:  Dr. Megan Hassall - Sydney, Australia
Date:  23 January 2014
Surgery:  Bilateral Subcutaneous Mastectomy - Left Nipple preserved pedicle, Right Nipple free grafted

So I'm posting my 11 week post-op update.  I'm actually at 12 weeks, but these photos were from last week (forgot to post them up).

Front view:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi762.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx266%2FMouse5479%2FDSC01442.jpg&hash=71b4f0befdbffefca279c5ca6659e8588c754cd0)

As you can see, I still have visible "creases" in my incision line which I am not happy about at all.  I realise that it may be a rather small and trivial thing to some people, but it bothers me and I will continue to observe to see if they eventually straighten out before I seek her opinion on a revision.  Otherwise, the incision lines are still very thin (I'm still wearing the micropore tape until next month) - I'm not using any kind of silicone gel or scar treatment at this stage.

3/4 view - right nipple (free graft):

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi762.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx266%2FMouse5479%2FDSC01441.jpg&hash=910ab579d72320d573b2acfbc4083671e4de9262)

This graft had me pretty worried for a long time.  I honestly thought that it would reject considering how horrific it looked (just refer back to the older photos just after my surgery).  But it did just as she said it would - every time we changed the dressing and debrided the necrosed tissue, it would just close up and get better.  Now it looks pretty good IMHO.  It's slightly larger and more oval-shaped than the left, but again - small things.

3/4 view - left nipple (preserved pedicle):

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi762.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx266%2FMouse5479%2FDSC01440.jpg&hash=4a84a141f73cca720c8c9f5dbca5ec0a68f70fa2)

I've never had a problem with this one, fortunately.  Happy with the shape and how it generally turned out.

Sensation:

I'm still mostly numb about 3 inches above and all the way down to my nipples.  I have some vague sensation returning around the incision areas, but certainly nothing in the nipples themselves at all.  I no longer feel the incisions stretching when I do my workouts, so I'm not as worried as I was a few weeks ago about scar stretching.  I'm still going to keep wearing the tape for another few weeks until the 3-month mark as instructed. 

Shape:

I'm overall very happy with the look of my chest.  Dr. Hassall left a little tissue to give me the correct contour in my chest instead of being just pancake flat which I like.  As it's still early, I'm not too concerned - but there's a small area just under my right nipple that looks like there's a bit too much tissue remaining and resembles a tiny "mini-boob" when I raise my arm.  Time will tell if it's just swelling.

Otherwise, with a shirt - you can see the shape of my chest beneath clothes.  Looks pretty natural to me so no complaints:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi762.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx266%2FMouse5479%2FDSC01451.jpg&hash=bb20fce38011e0b81ebf5ce8160596380ce1ed5e)

Wow, Kreuzfidel, most stunning to me is how quickly you are bulking up!  There is a big difference even when unflexed.  Good job, mate!    :)

And the chest looks simply fantastic.  It really looks great for only 11 weeks!  Holy smokes!  I am very pleased for you!

I am so jealous of those thin and light scars (but very happy for you!).   

I understand why you would worry about the creases.  I really do.  For what it is worth, I still have some on both sides closest to the center of my chest and I am 6 months out.  It really was a slow process for them to go away, and I admit mine weren't as severe as yours, but they were definitely very visible.  Did you get to ask her about them at all?  Are there cases where it never goes away?  Can it be be fixed in revision?

What concerns me are my stretch marks.  With all the years of binding and my flatting straight down of my chest the stretch marks are there.  I am hoping that after I take care of the hypertrophic scar issue something can be done with the stretch marks.  There are a lot of products out there, but I have read physicians as saying that none of them really work.  I need to look more into possible laser or that type thing.  Stretch marks are something I really haven't looked into, so I don't know anything about care for them.

Again, congrats on a beautiful chest that is only going to look better and better in time!  Those scars will be invisible for sure!

P.S. Thanks for the extensive review along with pictures.

Brief Hypertrophic Update

Ok, so I never heard from Garramone, but I did not follow up with a phone call.  I need to do that.

What I wanted to share is that with doing the massage twice per day religiously, the scars are getting flatter. 

I do wonder how permanent this is, however.  Meaning, I wonder if I stopped massaging, if they would raise again (long explanation as to why I think this might be the case).  But, I don't think they will be as tall.  I think they are widening a bit as they flatten, which is logical  :(

I continue to use jojoba oil.  I continue to not think that the type of oil makes a difference, just the massage itself.  Jojoba is very good for the skin, plus I have a bottle of it in organic form, so that is why is another reason why I continue this particular oil.

I decided that I will go with whatever Garramone suggests when I finally call him.  If he says to seek cortizone shots right now, I will investigate that option.  If he says to let them flatten their own or tells me to do professional massage, I will go that route.  If I did the massage and it is easy enough to do, I will see if my GF can just do it for me, due to cost.

Earlier in the thread someone was posting about getting professional massage and I wrote about my discomfort in anyone touching my chest, due to leftover (habitual?), dysphoria.  I think that has abated enough to where I would be more comfortable.  Just thinking about the idea is not disturbing in the way it was. 

Kreuzfidel, do you think massage may help with the creases?  Maybe that is something to ask Hassall.

It's a beautiful day out, so I am off!

Thanks heaps, Brett!  *Blush*  I really appreciate your feedback, mate.   ;D

With stretch marks, I've seen some being treated on a show called "Embarrassing Bodies" - I'm fairly sure it was done with laser treatment and there was a significant difference before and after.  .I don't know if that's even offered where you live, but I suppose it's still an option.

That sucks that Garramone didn't get back to you - but my surgeon did the same thing.  I don't think they can be bothered answering post-op emails, so a phone call will be the only way to go.

I hate that you had creases, too - but at least it's not something unique to me. *sigh*  I'm hoping they'll keep stretching out - I think they're not as bad as they were, so here's keeping my fingers crossed.  I asked her in the email about the creases, but of course never got a response.  I don't know that it's worth calling her at this stage since it's only 11 weeks - I'm not even sure if it can be fixed with a revision, but if it's still bad and bothering me in closer to a year I'll definitely give her a call.

I'm a bit like you in regards to massaging my chest - my wife hasn't really even touched it yet and I worry about it.  When she was wiping it down to get the sticky tape stuff off, it made me queasy - mostly because it's still numb and feels hella weird.  What is the science behind massage, Brett?  What does it actually do?  I'd be willing to give it a go if I knew how it worked.

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on April 12, 2014, 05:35:05 PM
Thanks heaps, Brett!  *Blush*  I really appreciate your feedback, mate.   ;D

With stretch marks, I've seen some being treated on a show called "Embarrassing Bodies" - I'm fairly sure it was done with laser treatment and there was a significant difference before and after.  .I don't know if that's even offered where you live, but I suppose it's still an option.

That sucks that Garramone didn't get back to you - but my surgeon did the same thing.  I don't think they can be bothered answering post-op emails, so a phone call will be the only way to go.

I hate that you had creases, too - but at least it's not something unique to me. *sigh*  I'm hoping they'll keep stretching out - I think they're not as bad as they were, so here's keeping my fingers crossed.  I asked her in the email about the creases, but of course never got a response.  I don't know that it's worth calling her at this stage since it's only 11 weeks - I'm not even sure if it can be fixed with a revision, but if it's still bad and bothering me in closer to a year I'll definitely give her a call.

I'm a bit like you in regards to massaging my chest - my wife hasn't really even touched it yet and I worry about it.  When she was wiping it down to get the sticky tape stuff off, it made me queasy - mostly because it's still numb and feels hella weird.  What is the science behind massage, Brett?  What does it actually do?  I'd be willing to give it a go if I knew how it worked.

Hi, Kreuzfidel!

I don't know that massage would help with creases, but it makes sense to me.  You would be are moving/rubbing the skin around...loosening it up, so it can setttle into a natural position.  Just a thought...worth asking, I think.

So you still have some discomfort with your wife touching your chest too?  I am still uncomfortable too.  Wish I wasn't.  I am thinking I just have to push through it??  Lots of years with dysphoria, so I guess it is hard to shake.

Yeah, Brett - I think it's just a time thing really.  Like you said, you can't just wave a magick wand and do away with the years of dysphoria.  I'm just getting used to looking at myself topless now - touching is going to take some time for sure.

Though Id post my 1 month post op. I love my new chest (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv386%2Fisnt_anything%2F77F75B93-BBCD-4489-A740-CCF04690E6EF_zpsojkpgi1a.jpg&hash=d2837cbb36e5ea58c290c04f973b46b2a9aae1c6) (http://s.photobucket.com/user/isnt_anything/media/77F75B93-BBCD-4489-A740-CCF04690E6EF_zpsojkpgi1a.jpg.html)

Hey, Darrin.  You look GREAT!  Thanks for posting.

Hey, Elijah, you look great!  Are you/did you use any kind of scar treatment?  They are fading well.

I did use some generic silicone strips for about a month or more once the scars were healed but it seemed that they actually widened my scars, it did seem to flatten them though, but it could be coincidence, I stopped using them though because the few inches of scar that I never covered with strips were thinner then the strip covered bits.

I think its you that mentioned massaging your scars right? How is that working out for you? I had been massaging mine (but stopped) with circular motions and lotion, how about you? I feel like massaging would be really helpful in breaking down scar tissue.

Quote from: Elijah on April 14, 2014, 09:36:59 PM
I did use some generic silicone strips for about a month or more once the scars were healed but it seemed that they actually widened my scars, it did seem to flatten them though, but it could be coincidence, I stopped using them though because the few inches of scar that I never covered with strips were thinner then the strip covered bits.

I think its you that mentioned massaging your scars right? How is that working out for you? I had been massaging mine (but stopped) with circular motions and lotion, how about you? I feel like massaging would be really helpful in breaking down scar tissue.

I think the massaging is definitely helping some.  I am using circular motions.  I don't think it matters what type of oil/lotion you use (I used Jojoba oil, it lasts longer than lotion), it is the massage itself that breaks up the scar tissue.

Some say olive oil works just as well as anything else, so if you have some in your kitchen, grab that!

Garramone did do a really good job shaping your chest.

Darrin and Elijah - your chests look amazing!   :o

Quote from: Elijah on April 14, 2014, 09:28:29 PM
Hey everyone, well I'm nearly a year post op. I'm at 11 months today, time flies!

DI (obviously) Garramone

Well *obviously*! :) Nice results and healing little clone brother. LOL!


--Jay

I really recommend Bio Oil.

this is with just 6 months of daily use:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu387%2Fcowboyryan1985%2FC49B783C-3CC1-4EBB-9B2C-B5635C76A5B1-2871-0000031F379F5D99_zps2a34a4ad.jpg&hash=c241fce83f3439ffca04dcba0ccf7b3549edfb60)

Ryanronald, does the bio oil stain clothing, cotton, sheets?

Quote from: chipper on March 07, 2014, 10:28:58 AM
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi58.tinypic.com%2Fnf1wuc.jpg&hash=0d8d0bf1c16b5bcb3b9486256e02188ab0b6413c)

I went to Dr. Rockmore of Albany, New York last Friday (February 28th, 2014) for a "bilateral subcutaneous mastectomy with free nipple grafts for gender transformation." Yesterday, I had my first post-op visit and got to check out my bod, bandage free, for the first time. I am now able to shower but my drains will unfortunately remain in until next Thursday because I'm still producing a significant amount of fluid...so the drains will be in for 13 days total. Aside from that unfortunate setback, the whole process has been awesome. I had some intubation difficultiess during the surgery itself, but everything has been handled wonderfully. My chest feels awesome and looks incredible. Above is a picture from yesterday's appointment- 6 days post-op.

Chipper, I'm getting a consult with Rockmore next Tuesday - can you tell me anything else about the experience?  I'm kinda hesitant to go to him because he's not as well known as some, but all the results I've seen so far have been great and he's in my area (I'm in NYC). Feel free to send me a message! Hope you're healing well!

Thanks - that's awesome to hear. I just recently moved from the west coast and always planned on having surgery with Brownstein/Crane so I don't really have a lot of info about people out here. Checked out your tumblr, the results look great and it seems like the experience was awesome, it's definitely making me feel more confident about choosing him :) I might message you if I have any more specific questions...

Brownstein doesn't do top surgery anymore. The whole practice is Dr Crane.

--Jay

Elijah - it doesn't stain sheets but it is best to get it rubbed in properly and not still be feeling wet when you get into bed or put a top on if that makes sense, i sort of wipe off anything that hasn't absorbed after a good massaging

Hello everyone! New person here, and my top surgery was March 12 so I'm about 7 weeks out. I went to Dr Mangubat in Renton WA (I live in Seattle so it was a short trip, and a few guys in my support group recommended him). He and his staff were excellent, and I had been working my upper body muscles enough that he was able to draw a good line for incision around the pecs. I'm really happy so far, though my nipples look a bit weird to me and I'm still a bit swollen. I'm looking forward to getting back into my workout schedule next week, I hate being inactive. :(

I'm 10 months into being on T and 11 months since my decision. Its really great having this resource, and I'd like to thank everyone for sharing pictures especially so I don't feel quite so nervous about everything.

~Alex

(P.s. surgery was "bilateral simple mastectomy with nipple grafts")

Quote from: ZanBuck on April 29, 2014, 03:03:37 AM
Hello everyone! New person here, and my top surgery was March 12 so I'm about 7 weeks out. I went to Dr Mangubat in Renton WA (I live in Seattle so it was a short trip, and a few guys in my support group recommended him). He and his staff were excellent, and I had been working my upper body muscles enough that he was able to draw a good line for incision around the pecs. I'm really happy so far, though my nipples look a bit weird to me and I'm still a bit swollen. I'm looking forward to getting back into my workout schedule next week, I hate being inactive. :(

I'm 10 months into being on T and 11 months since my decision. Its really great having this resource, and I'd like to thank everyone for sharing pictures especially so I don't feel quite so nervous about everything.

~Alex

(P.s. surgery was "bilateral simple mastectomy with nipple grafts")

Alex, so glad you posted!  I think it is great when people post who have gone to less well known surgeons.  Would you be willing to post a picture?  Congrats on your surgery!

Quote from: ZanBuck on April 29, 2014, 03:03:37 AM
Hello everyone! New person here, and my top surgery was March 12 so I'm about 7 weeks out. I went to Dr Mangubat in Renton WA (I live in Seattle so it was a short trip, and a few guys in my support group recommended him). He and his staff were excellent, and I had been working my upper body muscles enough that he was able to draw a good line for incision around the pecs. I'm really happy so far, though my nipples look a bit weird to me and I'm still a bit swollen. I'm looking forward to getting back into my workout schedule next week, I hate being inactive. :(

I'm 10 months into being on T and 11 months since my decision. Its really great having this resource, and I'd like to thank everyone for sharing pictures especially so I don't feel quite so nervous about everything.

~Alex

(P.s. surgery was "bilateral simple mastectomy with nipple grafts")

Congrats! My surgery was also March 12th!!

And March 12th was my birthday!  ha!

Hey, Darrin.  How about an update pic when you get a chance?

Thanks all! Here's a few pics... Sorry about the poor quality, my camera (phone) hates up close pics. Lets see if this works, I wasn't sure where best to host images.

http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-tpGRn/ (http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-tpGRn/)

March 15th: (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-CGqgn4h%2F0%2FS%2Fi-CGqgn4h-S.jpg&hash=18d911cef49e214edef89e37180d9517a20b92f4) (http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-tpGRn/i-CGqgn4h/A)

April 22nd: (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-HWpk2BH%2F0%2FS%2Fi-HWpk2BH-S.jpg&hash=0b73e072e737581cd4f9d6a8067853b8d3c6f184) (http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-tpGRn/i-HWpk2BH/A)

Overall I'm really happy with the progress, and I just started working out again yesterday so I'm even happier now.

Quick question: is there anything I can do to help my nipples along? They have a little extra scarring around the edges from the sutures that held the stents in place, but I'm not sure whether I should use the scar strips etc on them?


p.s. Happy birthday Brent!

You look great, Zanbuck!  Your surgeon did a great job.

Don't put anything on the nipples.  They need to move along at their own pace.  I am 7 months out and they are still shifting shape on the edges.  Never use scar products on them at any point.  A big no.

Thanks Brett, I really appreciate the feedback. I'll leave them alone and let them progress naturally (I just like to be able to actively do something about making things progress forward, I know I just need to be patient).
No matter how much I read, being able to ask questions of other people feels more real. Most of the guys in my support group are pre-surgery, and the few that aren't its been a few years since their top surgery so they don't remember many specifics about the beginning. A year ago I never would have dreamed that I would be going to a support group, or that I could actually start being happy with my body.

Hope everyone is doing well.
~Alex

My clone (Brett) has been asking, so here is my 6 month update. I think the right nipple looks like it still needs to "come out" a bit. Anyway here it is. I am developing teensy tiny pecs. I have to point them out, as they are very teensy tiny. LOL      Jay

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F6jkClQu.jpg&hash=7a4c1c2c8f912238974c375f8745eb179e9c0b82)

Hey, Jay. 

You are looking GREAT my friend!  Nice thin lines.  Are you still using Scar Away gel or are you feeling good about how they look and are comfortable with the knowledge that they will get better over time?

I can see your pecs in comparison to the past.  Honestly!  I know you have been working on it.

I do think your chest looks really great.  I am happy for you!  Go, Garramone!

Quote from: Brett on May 08, 2014, 06:35:57 AM
Hey, Jay. 

You are looking GREAT my friend!  Nice thin lines.  Are you still using Scar Away gel or are you feeling good about how they look and are comfortable with the knowledge that they will get better over time?

I can see your pecs in comparison to the past.  Honestly!  I know you have been working on it.

I do think your chest looks really great.  I am happy for you!  Go, Garramone!

Thanks my clone friend. Yes, I am still using Scaraway gel. I have kind of decided to use it for a year, but I do think they will get lighter in time anyway.

Thanks re: pecs. I do think there is *something* there, it's very slow when you are at my advanced age. Perhaps I can't do quite as aggressive a workout and feel like it is still safe. Though I have a gay friend (no, not that
way :( ) who said his took forever and he is way younger than I am.


--Jay

I have been waiting since way before this thread began to post my own photos. Now I can :D

I had double incision on the 28th of April with Mr Yelland in Brighton, UK.

The first picture is from a few days post-op, the others are from this morning (11 days post-op). I had my dressings etc removed yesterday.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi92.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl26%2Fmaximmusflavius%2Fimagejpg1_zps6b906343.jpg&hash=21a968665b41a2f909516c63c58454d3b23e631f)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi92.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl26%2Fmaximmusflavius%2Fimagejpg2_zps7b8ecba1.jpg&hash=3fe5c7cdba4145951c38741bd18830af12998c64)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi92.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl26%2Fmaximmusflavius%2Fimagejpg3_zps6181f79b.jpg&hash=82ceee273399b2e94f6b881c24bd568614e88f33)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi92.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl26%2Fmaximmusflavius%2Fimagejpg4_zps069a4838.jpg&hash=5910b6c335f3bdcddfac1dff479940ab34497e5f)


I still have a bit of swelling that will hopefully go down with time. But for now it just looks like I have pecs!

Maximmus, your chest looks amazing!!!  Wow, I'm pretty impressed with Mr. Yelland's work.  That's incredible.  You really have something to be proud of, mate!  ;D

Congrats Maxximus!

It looks really good.  Yes, enjoy the extra pec look right now!  ;D

It has been 7 months for me and I still smile everyday I look in the mirror.  I just took the dog for a walk about a half an hour ago and paused, having that moment of dread that I had to grab the binder (I had just gotten out of bed, so still a bit fuzzy).  I smiled after I remembered.  Those moments don't happen as much (thinking I need to grab my binder), but noticing the feeling of my shirt right against my chest certainly still does.

Thank you for posting the picture with your bandages.  I am always curious to see how the surgeons wraps us differently.

What is the recovery plan?  Meaning, do you have to put anything on your nipples?  Do you have to wear a vest?  Etc.

Congrats again.  It looks great!  Thanks for posting!

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on May 09, 2014, 04:39:11 AM
Maximmus, your chest looks amazing!!!  Wow, I'm pretty impressed with Mr. Yelland's work.  That's incredible.  You really have something to be proud of, mate!  ;D

You just made my day, cheers!!

Quote from: Brett on May 09, 2014, 06:41:22 AM

Thank you for posting the picture with your bandages.  I am always curious to see how the surgeons wraps us differently.

What is the recovery plan?  Meaning, do you have to put anything on your nipples?  Do you have to wear a vest?  Etc.

Congrats again.  It looks great!  Thanks for posting!

I had to wear a neoprene back binder for compression on top of the bandages. Mega uncomfortable pain in the backside to begin with, but totally worth it! I have to continue wearing it for a couple of weeks just to keep the compression and protect everything. I feel incredibly vulnerable without it now I've got used to it. I wasn't told specifically to cover my nipples and actually forgot to ask, but I've covered them with some gauze as I'm worried they'd get stuck to the binder. I was given some micro pore tape to put on the incisions for a week or so, until the roll runs out basically!

Also something I forgot to mention before is that Yelland doesn't use drains.

Maximmus your chest looks great.

ZanBuck- your chest looks really good too. I will definitely be following your recovery. I live out your way and if there is a local option that would be great. I don't know when I'll be able to get surgery but someday. :)

Maximas, you chest is looking great. Funny thing though, I think that he has a very distinctive look to his surgeries. Not really like Dr G but his own distinctive that I think looks great. I have a friend that went to him.

--Jay

Sorry it took me a while to respond. I saw there was a request for my chest. Here it is 2 months post op. I might get a revision for the top part where my chest meets. I go next week for another check up. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv386%2Fisnt_anything%2FE1941428-4DE0-451B-87CC-4AA16487FA79_zpsm1hfs0hl.jpg&hash=339d1f8885c4677e99c594d20155a53d5a479e92) (http://s.photobucket.com/user/isnt_anything/media/E1941428-4DE0-451B-87CC-4AA16487FA79_zpsm1hfs0hl.jpg.html)

Hey, Darrin.  You are healing REALLY great for only two months!  Your incision lines are so light.  Have you been using any scar treatment?

When you spoke about revision, you said where you chest meets.  Do you mean where both sides come together (the middle of our chest)?  What is it you are looking to be different?

Anyway, looking good!

Quote from: Brett on May 15, 2014, 06:19:14 AM
Hey, Darrin.  You are healing REALLY great for only two months!  Your incision lines are so light.  Have you been using any scar treatment?

When you spoke about revision, you said where you chest meets.  Do you mean where both sides come together (the middle of our chest)?  What is it you are looking to be different?

Anyway, looking good!

No scar treatments yet. Yeah, where both sides come together. I am only 2 months post op so maybe the swelling will go down. I won't have one done until I'm at least a year post op.

3 weeks post op. The asymmetry actually looks more pronounced in these photos than it does in the mirror, probably due to the angle of the picture. The lines around the incisions are imprints from the micropore tape and compression, not skin wrinkling.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi92.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl26%2Fmaximmusflavius%2Fimagejpg1_zps19b7cde7.jpg&hash=d3b8deb276821ca1e2216083b938bfa6f9b0029a)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi92.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl26%2Fmaximmusflavius%2Fimagejpg2_zps909d8bfd.jpg&hash=c963772da49afccd5b577299941b267cb9809347)

Wow, really looking great there, Maxximus.  You can see where the swelling is going down, and your natural pec definition is coming through!

Congrats on the healthy healing and thanks for coming back to keep us updated!

Hey guys! Long time no update! :P We've been CRAZY busy lately, but here's a 3.5 month update from me!

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-OZEAnk0Bp_Q/U4YvyQ0cVRI/AAAAAAAAEAk/9DIquWMUzNk/w737-h553-no/20140528_114936.jpg)

The sort of "dog ear" thing I have going on on the side is much less prominent when standing up. This is a sitting picture so I'm a little squished, lol.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0LBcwad_nAA/U4Yv5LQPzcI/AAAAAAAAEAw/Kmcs3jF8gxE/w737-h553-no/20140528_115006.jpg)

You can see a little better here. They're getting flatter every day, too.

Our scars have been lightening a LOT using the Biocorneum. Except we've been lazy lately and haven't done it in a week or two... :P Gotta get back to it.

Everything is smooth sailing, now - no more complications and life is back to normal. :) I need to post a recommendation for Dr. Horowitz.

Hey-Hey, Nathan, looking great!  I was JUST thinking about your guys yesterday and wondering how you two were getting along.  Glad you are so happy with your chest!   :)

Hi guys, just had DI yesterday morning with Dr. Rockmore in Albany, NY.

When I was doing research on surgeons there wasn't a lot of info on the internet about him, so just wanted to share my own experience - seriously can't recommend him + his team enough  :)  Really thin incision lines, results look amazing so far, and there's almost no pain (just general muscle pain from the anaesthetic, and I'm only taking Aleve, no painkillers). My insurance was ending at the end of the month, and they went above + beyond to move appointments around and talk directly to the Aetna etc. so I got the whole thing covered two days before my insurance expired.

If you're considering going to him, feel free to ask me anything! I'll post pics soon.

Quote from: grownupteeth on May 29, 2014, 07:42:28 AM
Hi guys, just had DI yesterday morning with Dr. Rockmore in Albany, NY.

When I was doing research on surgeons there wasn't a lot of info on the internet about him, so just wanted to share my own experience - seriously can't recommend him + his team enough  :)  Really thin incision lines, results look amazing so far, and there's almost no pain (just general muscle pain from the anaesthetic, and I'm only taking Aleve, no painkillers). My insurance was ending at the end of the month, and they went above + beyond to move appointments around and talk directly to the Aetna etc. so I got the whole thing covered two days before my insurance expired.

If you're considering going to him, feel free to ask me anything! I'll post pics soon.

Excellent.  Glad you are so happy.  Congrats on your surgery!

Quote from: chipper on April 18, 2014, 07:27:07 PM
Hey, I highly recommend Rockmore! Being close to home really made the experience incredibly easy, comfortable, and economical. Aside from logistics, Rockmore is incredibly consistent with results- and that was important to me. I consulted with Rockmore as well as Costas in Concord and Bartlett in Brookline. Ultimately, Rockmore won me over. He's a chill dude and I couldn't be more happy. I appreciate his willingness to make me comfortable. My consult was nearly an hour because I came in with a list of questions. Rockmore answered every single one, thoroughly and personably.

About my experience: I had my Jackson Pratt drains in for 13 days and think Rockmore really listened to my body's needs. I didn't bruise, was able to shower after 6 days, and called the office anytime I had a silly question. Nurses always called me back almost immediately and the office is always able to fit you in for post-op appointments. The whole experience was incredibly smooth and a million times easier than I'd anticipated. I was able to set up my appointment the day of my consult and pick my surgery date. Then I realized I needed to reschedule the date a couple days later, and the office was so accommodating and didn't even question why I had to postpone. Payment is due 14 days before surgery. I waited until the very last minute and didn't have any issues. Everyone at the surgery center was awesome, I wasn't misgendered the entire time!

I can't emphasize how painless and smooth the whole experience was. Rockmore is surprisingly well known in the New England region and rightly so. On the net you really have to search to find stuff on Rockmore... but it's out there! Before surgery, I spoke with several guys who had gone to Rockmore and met a few folks through a local group. He's got a solid reputation in my area. I've got a bajillion pics on my tumblr and document my chest daily. If you've got any specific questions, feel free to get in touch ;)

Hey, just wanted to say thanks for all your help/info when I was researching surgery...I had DI with Rockmore 3 days ago and it was the best experience ever! Much appreciated :)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs27.postimg.org%2Fw1pxegy5f%2FScreen_shot_2014_05_31_at_4_02_56_PM.png&hash=9b7af73253201487f630e2b869aa7347132093e6) (http://postimage.org/)
1 year post op

Quote from: SX0877 on May 31, 2014, 03:06:04 PM
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs27.postimg.org%2Fw1pxegy5f%2FScreen_shot_2014_05_31_at_4_02_56_PM.png&hash=9b7af73253201487f630e2b869aa7347132093e6) (http://postimage.org/)
1 year post op

Wow, man, your chest looks great!!

Remind us again though who your surgeon was and the surgery type.

Thanks for posting!

Thanks, Brett. The surgeon was Medalie.

Quote from: SX0877 on May 31, 2014, 03:06:04 PM
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs27.postimg.org%2Fw1pxegy5f%2FScreen_shot_2014_05_31_at_4_02_56_PM.png&hash=9b7af73253201487f630e2b869aa7347132093e6) (http://postimage.org/)
1 year post op

you look great

Wow SX and various digits! You look like a freakin' Greek god or something. :)

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on June 01, 2014, 04:40:34 PM
Wow SX and various digits! You look like a freakin' Greek god or something. :)

--Jay

haha This made me laugh out loud.  Yes, he does look good!    :)

Thanks a lot christopher, Jay and Brett.  :laugh:

hallo buddies, im new to group. can u tell me which type of surgery needed for medium chest? and where doyo guys do the surgery? how much it costs?

Quote from: prin on June 06, 2014, 06:26:32 AM
hallo buddies, im new to group. can u tell me which type of surgery needed for medium chest? and where doyo guys do the surgery? how much it costs?

Welcome to the site!

Those are some really broad questions. :)  I would suggest starting by reading the link below as it answers your questions pretty extensively.  Then post any specific questions in the main area of the Top Surgery section (instead of in this recovery thread).

Again, welcome!

http://www.ftmguide.org/chest.html

I'm now at 7.5 weeks weeks post op with Mr Yelland. Pretty much got all my movement back. The occasional big stretch still pulls. Been back at work for two weeks. Went swimming for the first time since a couple of months before top surgery and it was amazing! I was nowhere near as self conscious as I thought I would be.

Been using kelocote on the incision lines since about 2.5 weeks post op.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi92.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl26%2Fmaximmusflavius%2FPhotoon2014-06-19at1803_zps8c2c0870.jpg&hash=ecf2990b6863f62da8abcb7d0adebc7524af7b12)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi92.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl26%2Fmaximmusflavius%2FPhotoon2014-06-19at1804_zps13981993.jpg&hash=3be7be32dc57ea6403460053fcd3ea08fce8c1eb)

I have surprisingly more pec muscle than I originally thought. I was disappointed at first when I wasn't as flat as I wanted to be, until I realised I actually had a decent amount of muscle underneath! In the second picture on the left, there is a dip in my ribcage, probably caused by years of binding, that makes my chest look a bit bigger than it is.

1 month and a couple days post-op. Had surgery with Dr. Buckley in Minnesota. SHE is hilarious, and is so laid back and chill about everything. I met with her a couple times before my surgery date, and she answered any and every question I could think of. Her staff, is also great. The morning of surgery I was pretty f'n nervous, I'd never been put under before. They brought me back into a prep-like room to change out of my clothes, and I met pretty much everyone that was going to be in the surgery room before I was put out. All the nurses and aftercare people were very professional and really helped put my mind at ease. I went in at 5:45 am and was back home by 1 pm.
Just took the last of my tape off my incisions (probably could of done this 2 weeks ago). I've been too chicken sht to scrub my chest down in the shower, but got most of the residue off. The dark spots towards the front of my incision is still a little scabby.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi62.tinypic.com%2F110lyt0.jpg&hash=119d5aac1c16bf63f14e8352e9ac1596d049628d)

Left Side -
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi62.tinypic.com%2F28w2h3m.jpg&hash=78db43be9e9a9e37ba725d79a9770c7dcbfec208)

Right Side - not diggin' the raised pucker, hoping it will go down with time/getting back to working out. Also, there's a dip or a little bit of a caved look look.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.tinypic.com%2F2yvot93.jpg&hash=93f5fdf0e49b7a4f168781343e2eaf05aaa4d86b)

Nips -
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi61.tinypic.com%2Frk1uur.jpg&hash=933f76687f2bd52c9063696cf4c5590eb229f288)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi60.tinypic.com%2Fv5bjfs.jpg&hash=fd73574c79c1a890ee1fd2b86195cba39c54432b)

Overall, I'm pretty happy with my results. I know these surgeries come with imperfections and am just stoked I was fortunate enough to be able to finally have surgery.

Maxximus and GQJoey,

You both look awesome!!

Maxximus, I have seen some great stuff of Mr. Yelland and also some only ok chests.  I think your chest is great!

GQJOey, it is amazing how fast your nipples have healed!  They look really good.  Thanks for posting about your surgeon.  I have never heard of Buckley.

Thanks for posting, guys!

Hey guys

I was asked to get my experience here in this topic. Instead of writing a novel here, I'm going to post the link to a review I put online. Two, actually. You can see the progression of pictures on the first one really well. I saw Dr. Tholen in Minneapolis on May 22nd. Double incision with grafts. Great experience - bump in the road with a hematoma, but all is good, no effect on my results.

http://www.realself.com/review/minneapolis-plastic-surgery-minneapolis-mn-gender-reassignment-surgery-ftm-di

http://www.transbucket.com/pins/13560#.U72yusZOXIU

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask here or message me :)

Quote from: Pictrig18 on July 09, 2014, 04:30:14 PM
Hey guys

I was asked to get my experience here in this topic. Instead of writing a novel here, I'm going to post the link to a review I put online. Two, actually. You can see the progression of pictures on the first one really well. I saw Dr. Tholen in Minneapolis on May 22nd. Double incision with grafts. Great experience - bump in the road with a hematoma, but all is good, no effect on my results.

http://www.realself.com/review/minneapolis-plastic-surgery-minneapolis-mn-gender-reassignment-surgery-ftm-di

http://www.transbucket.com/pins/13560#.U72yusZOXIU

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask here or message me :)

Hey. great review on surgeon and your progress.  I followed your other thread and I just wanted to say that your one month pics look awesome!  I'm really happy for you.  I am sure that the hematoma was anxiety producing to say the least!  Happy healing!

Hematomas are scary looking for sure (and I'm sure scary event!!!) but I've seen pretty many of these and it seems like many people with them end up looking fine, so odds are good you will too. Hang in there!

--Jay

Thanks guys - yeah, the hematoma is more nerve-wracking than anything. And annoying since it has required extra time in the compression vest - it finally comes off tomorrow for the last time (second time trying this, swelled the first try enough to put the vest back on for a couple weeks). Can't wait to be able to move around and workout to make things look better.

Hey y'all , three days post-op from a periareolar top surgery. :) I had it done with Dr. Rockmore in Albany, NY. The staff at the surgical center were AMAZING. I never had surgery before and they made me feel very calm and comfortable. I haven't had much pain just annoyance at the drain spots. I haven't been draining much at all either and the nurses said they didn't think I would. I chose Rockmore because of the awesome results Kenton and other people have had. From reading Kenton's posts I found that my experience barely differs except that he was required to wear a compression vest and I wasn't. I find this a little strange because almost everyone I've read about no matter the surgeon has had to wear a compression vest. Idk why he didn't tell me to wear one. I hope it won't affect my results in a negative way! I'm still kinda out of it from the pain meds but I shall post pictures within the next couple days for y'all. Should I be worried about no instruction on the compression vest? :p

Quote from: BGking on July 17, 2014, 09:05:12 PM
Hey y'all , three days post-op from a periareolar top surgery. :) I had it done with Dr. Rockmore in Albany, NY. The staff at the surgical center were AMAZING. I never had surgery before and they made me feel very calm and comfortable. I haven't had much pain just annoyance at the drain spots. I haven't been draining much at all either and the nurses said they didn't think I would. I chose Rockmore because of the awesome results Kenton and other people have had. From reading Kenton's posts I found that my experience barely differs except that he was required to wear a compression vest and I wasn't. I find this a little strange because almost everyone I've read about no matter the surgeon has had to wear a compression vest. Idk why he didn't tell me to wear one. I hope it won't affect my results in a negative way! I'm still kinda out of it from the pain meds but I shall post pictures within the next couple days for y'all. Should I be worried about no instruction on the compression vest? :p

Hi, BGking.  Congrats on making it to the "other side"!

I am glad that things went well.  Not all surgeons require vests.  Garramone doesn't.  He gives you an ace bandage you have the choice to keep wrapped around you as a way to remember you just had surgery so you are more careful, but there is no compression past the 6 post day healing.

You should find out if Kenton had double incision.  Maybe that is why he had the wear the vest and you did not?

I would not stress about it.  It isn't like they would have forgotten to give you one!  ha.  But, if it makes you feel better, call them.

Glad to see you here.  Do you have someone helping you at home/at your hotel?  Keep us updated!

Congrats, again!!!

Awesome! Everything I hear about Rockmore makes me more confident that I'm going to him next year when my insurance comes through.
Congrats on your surgery! Can't wait to see the pictures!

Quote from: Brett on July 17, 2014, 10:14:18 PM
Hi, BGking.  Congrats on making it to the "other side"!

I am glad that things went well.  Not all surgeons require vests.  Garramone doesn't.  He gives you an ace bandage you have the choice to keep wrapped around you as a way to remember you just had surgery so you are more careful, but there is no compression past the 6 post day healing.

You should find out if Kenton had double incision.  Maybe that is why he had the wear the vest and you did not?

I would not stress about it.  It isn't like they would have forgotten to give you one!  ha.  But, if it makes you feel better, call them.

Glad to see you here.  Do you have someone helping you at home/at your hotel?  Keep us updated!

Congrats, again!!!

Thanks Brett! Kenton had the peri just like I did. I'm trying not to stress about it but anxiety and worry are my average emotions! :p I just wanted to make sure it wouldn't harm my results if I wasn't wearing one. Do you know why there is no compression past six days? The facility mentioned a vest to me during a phone interview a few before my date but when I woke up I asked why I wasn't wearing one and the nurse just said no compression vest. I had read it keeps the skin to the chest wall and aided in healing so I am a little nervous if my results will "drag" or "drop" from not wearing one. As of right now, not really I have my aunt coming over every day but I'm really just sleeping and checking my laptop on a table I put next to my bed before surgery. I can't wait to get these darn drains removed! :p  :o

Quote from: devention on July 18, 2014, 02:20:02 AM
Awesome! Everything I hear about Rockmore makes me more confident that I'm going to him next year when my insurance comes through.
Congrats on your surgery! Can't wait to see the pictures!

He definitely knows his profession well. He seemed very confident. He was friendly during the consultation and before surgery. He talked about the weather because he knew I had a three hour drive back home from NY afterward and of course it was raining. :P And while marking my chest (which was just two lines underneath my old chest mass - which kinda surprised me he didn't draw more) he asked how long I was on T and then he said it was definitely doing its job! I think he only made two lines because he just knew what he was doing and had the vision of how he wanted my chest to look in mind already. The only thing I found really odd with him was when I woke up the nurses said he had left already but before the surgery they said he would come in when I was awake to make sure everything was alright. I mean I suppose it doesn't matter I just expected him to come in and ask how I was. But other than that I think my results will turn out very well without my worrisome self getting too stressed about not wearing a compression vest. I'll post some pictures later on when I figure out how to post them. :P Thanks everyone!

Quote from: BGking on July 18, 2014, 03:37:04 AM
He definitely knows his profession well. He seemed very confident. He was friendly during the consultation and before surgery. He talked about the weather because he knew I had a three hour drive back home from NY afterward and of course it was raining. :P And while marking my chest (which was just two lines underneath my old chest mass - which kinda surprised me he didn't draw more) he asked how long I was on T and then he said it was definitely doing its job! I think he only made two lines because he just knew what he was doing and had the vision of how he wanted my chest to look in mind already. The only thing I found really odd with him was when I woke up the nurses said he had left already but before the surgery they said he would come in when I was awake to make sure everything was alright. I mean I suppose it doesn't matter I just expected him to come in and ask how I was. But other than that I think my results will turn out very well without my worrisome self getting too stressed about not wearing a compression vest. I'll post some pictures later on when I figure out how to post them. :P Thanks everyone!

I'm guessing that some emergency came up that he had to deal with.
Good to hear you had such a good experience. After hearing so often about bad trans healthcare (not from plastic surgeons, necessarily), it's nice to hear stories about awesome trans healthcare experiences. Very encouraging.
To post images, there's a button right beneath bold on the main post reply page. Upload a picture to the image hosting site of your choice and put the URL between the image tags. I think you have to have a certain number of posts, but I can't remember how many.

Quote from: BGking on July 18, 2014, 03:37:04 AM
He definitely knows his profession well. He seemed very confident. He was friendly during the consultation and before surgery. He talked about the weather because he knew I had a three hour drive back home from NY afterward and of course it was raining. :P And while marking my chest (which was just two lines underneath my old chest mass - which kinda surprised me he didn't draw more) he asked how long I was on T and then he said it was definitely doing its job! I think he only made two lines because he just knew what he was doing and had the vision of how he wanted my chest to look in mind already. The only thing I found really odd with him was when I woke up the nurses said he had left already but before the surgery they said he would come in when I was awake to make sure everything was alright. I mean I suppose it doesn't matter I just expected him to come in and ask how I was. But other than that I think my results will turn out very well without my worrisome self getting too stressed about not wearing a compression vest. I'll post some pictures later on when I figure out how to post them. :P Thanks everyone!

I just looked up Rockmore and realized he's in Albany. Definitely someone I'll consider.

BGking,

Garramone has a tight garment around you ( double incision...it is rare or I think maybe now never? he does any other technique), for those 6 days while the drains are in.  It is after he removes those that you no longer have any kind of compression.

I would call them today and ask for the reason why your chest, specifically.  I think that is a reasonable question.  Good luck.

Quote from: Brett on July 18, 2014, 06:43:05 AM
BGking,

Garramone has a tight garment around you ( double incision...it is rare or I think maybe now never? he does any other technique), for those 6 days while the drains are in.  It is after he removes those that you no longer have any kind of compression.

I would call them today and ask for the reason why your chest, specifically.  I think that is a reasonable question.  Good luck.

(Dr Garramone) It's on his page that he does peri, but every person I know of has been talked out of peri by him. Some people go and get a peri elsewhere and some do end up with a DI. I think he likes it better because he can control results more. If I could have had a peri he would not have been my surgeon. I want someone who WANTS and LIKES to do the procedure I want (or is reasonable), not someone who has to do it kicking and screaming, so to speak.

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on July 18, 2014, 07:02:20 PM

(Dr Garramone) It's on his page that he does peri, but every person I know of has been talked out of peri by him. Some people go and get a peri elsewhere and some do end up with a DI. I think he likes it better because he can control results more. If I could have had a peri he would not have been my surgeon. I want someone who WANTS and LIKES to do the procedure I want (or is reasonable), not someone who has to do it kicking and screaming, so to speak.

--Jay

Funny you should say that, Beck talked about Dr. Garramone on pressing for DI surgery in his video.

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gURDZeJ_2SA)

Quote from: Blue Senpai on July 18, 2014, 07:07:26 PM
Funny you should say that, Beck talked about Dr. Garramone on pressing for DI surgery in his video.

Well it DEFINITELY is not any kind of secret. A Lions' Fears talks about this in his video and does go for DI. I think if you asked he would say he doesn't like to do it and it doesn't have good results.

--Jay

Quote from: Brett on July 18, 2014, 06:43:05 AM
BGking,

Garramone has a tight garment around you ( double incision...it is rare or I think maybe now never? he does any other technique), for those 6 days while the drains are in.  It is after he removes those that you no longer have any kind of compression.

I would call them today and ask for the reason why your chest, specifically.  I think that is a reasonable question.  Good luck.

Hey guys I called the office today and asked the nurse why I wasn't given a compression vest. They said Dr. Rockmore used to use them but stopped a year or so ago because he saw that the risks outweighed the benefits so he doesn't use them anymore. They said if it caused wrinkles or folds in the skin it would negatively impact results and patients may swell up after so they don't fit causing more creases and whatnot. They told me as long as I am not bruising or bleeding from the location of the drains I'm healing just fine. Still barely draining anything but I suppose that's good. The nurse said Rockmore sometimes suggests wearing an under armor sports compression shirt for a month after the drains are removed and I should ask him during my follow up appointment this Tuesday. I will definitely ask him. Whatever he thinks is best I suppose I just want as awesome results as Kenton and the other guys I spoke with before settling on him!

Quote from: BGking on July 18, 2014, 09:04:25 PM
Hey guys I called the office today and asked the nurse why I wasn't given a compression vest. They said Dr. Rockmore used to use them but stopped a year or so ago because he saw that the risks outweighed the benefits so he doesn't use them anymore. They said if it caused wrinkles or folds in the skin it would negatively impact results and patients may swell up after so they don't fit causing more creases and whatnot. They told me as long as I am not bruising or bleeding from the location of the drains I'm healing just fine. Still barely draining anything but I suppose that's good. The nurse said Rockmore sometimes suggests wearing an under armor sports compression shirt for a month after the drains are removed and I should ask him during my follow up appointment this Tuesday. I will definitely ask him. Whatever he thinks is best I suppose I just want as awesome results as Kenton and the other guys I spoke with before settling on him!

Glad it worked out!

BTW, I don't think Beck is right that only people who have had surgery 2-3 years ago or more are happy with results from Dr G. I know plenty of people who had surgery recently that are happy, as I am.  The statement on "trademarking" is not *entirely* true according to Dr G's Facebook. At the time, he felt someone else was going to trademark it and keep other people (him) from using the term, so he trademarked it. He says he has never tried to stop anyone else from using it, which must be the case as a lot of surgeons use the term. If he wanted to sue them, he could do so. But I do agree that he doesn't really like to do peri (and may not really do it).

I didn't watch the whole 18 minutes but was kind of curious about it.


--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on July 18, 2014, 11:57:24 PM
BTW, I don't think Beck is right that only people who have had surgery 2-3 years ago or more are happy with results from Dr G. I know plenty of people who had surgery recently that are happy, as I am.  The statement on "trademarking" is not *entirely* true according to Dr G's Facebook. At the time, he felt someone else was going to trademark it and keep other people (him) from using the term, so he trademarked it. He says he has never tried to stop anyone else from using it, which must be the case as a lot of surgeons use the term. If he wanted to sue them, he could do so. But I do agree that he doesn't really like to do peri (and may not really do it).

I didn't watch the whole 18 minutes but was kind of curious about it.


--Jay

I really think it is as simple as, "You can't please all of the people, all of the time".  There are also some people who can just never be pleased, no matter what you do.  There are going to be people who are not pleased with his work.  There are going to be people who are not going to like his personality.

But, here's the thing, there must be less of those people who feel the above (don't like his personality and aren't pleased with his work), or people still wouldn't be coming to him in droves.

I talked with Garramone on the phone 4 days ago (which I will write about in a update post in this thread).  I have hypertrophic scarring completely across both incisions.  These are scars that are thick, raised, and will take a long time (a couple of years), to flatten and go white.  I called him to see what he thought.  He told me that if I wanted to, he would do a scar reduction for free.  This means removing the entire scar and restiching me.  The chance of the new incisions/scars not becoming hypertrophic again is very slim.  It is how my body heals on my chest.  He is willing to do this FOR FREE EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOT HIS FAULT.  Knowing that it is pretty futile, it is not like he even tried to talk me out of it.  He was just like Brett, it almost always comes back, but I will be happy to do it.  Prior to calling him, I had already done research and knew the lack of success with this, so it didn't surprise me when he said this.  But, what did surprise me is that he was willing to do it for free!

Oh, and the other thing about the video was that the guy was upset that Garramone doesn't do more for the community?  What the heck?  Being a surgeon for a specific surgery doesn't mean he needs to be an advocate for the community, advertise things on his site that could help transguys, etc.  Do we expect oncologists to go on cancer walks, advertise products that could help cancer survivors, etc.  It makes no sense to me.

Garramone owes the community nothing.  He is just a guy who happens to specialize in top surgery. 

That's great re: scar revision, do tell more.

I don't think the guy in the video has any knowledge re: what he might do for the community (if he does) one way or the other, how does he know this sort of thing? Many people who do things for the community do them quietly, so it's possible someone funds programs or something quietly. But I don't think a surgeon is required to be an activist, in any case. Being an excellent surgeon is actually doing "something for the community" imo. I really don't like people bad mouthing someone they don't know. From his FB, I think he is rather hurt by this sort of thing. He's kind of a sensitive guy actually.

--Jay

Being so specialized in doing one type of surgery that a tiny portion if the population would benefit from is definitely "doing something for the community". Imagine him retiring without a protege.
He could make a lot more money doing other surgeries. But he's helping a population that doesn't have enough in the way of support.

Quote from: devention on July 19, 2014, 08:48:08 PM
Being so specialized in doing one type of surgery that a tiny portion if the population would benefit from is definitely "doing something for the community". Imagine him retiring without a protege.
He could make a lot more money doing other surgeries. But he's helping a population that doesn't have enough in the way of support.

I agree with that assessment. I think a lot of doctors are learning top surgery by looking at the kind of results he is getting. Results are really much better everywhere because the bar gets raised. I think at some point he may hire someone to work with him, but he is still doing some crazy number of surgeries per day and not seeming to be slowing down any. (This happened with Dr Brownstein, he started off alone and then hired Dr Crane.)

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on July 19, 2014, 10:48:46 PM
I agree with that assessment. I think a lot of doctors are learning top surgery by looking at the kind of results he is getting. Results are really much better everywhere because the bar gets raised. I think at some point he may hire someone to work with him, but he is still doing some crazy number of surgeries per day and not seeming to be slowing down any. (This happened with Dr Brownstein, he started off alone and then hired Dr Crane.)

--Jay

I really hope he does hire someone that he sort of hand-trains. He and Brownstein are/were considered the best in the industry for a reason. And he has definitely raised the bar all over.

Let's get this thread back on track and do our best to keep it on track in the future.    We want to keep it to a place where guys don't have to read through a bunch of unrelated posts when they are healing and looking for tips (yeah, I know I contributed to the derail myself!  So, this is a reminder to myself as well.  :)).  I know I can't tell people what to post and where (please don't read this as me trying to be a moderator), but the reason it is a sticky is so it stays focused and doesn't get lost, kind of like the passing thread.


8 MONTHS 2 WEEKS AND 5 DAYS UPDATE

Hi, guys.  I am writing this 2 weeks after the above date, but the below picture was taken at the above date, so I figured I would back date.

Surgery Date: 10/10/13
Surgery: Double Incision with free nipple grafts
Surgeon: Garramone
Scar Treatment:  Scar Away Strips/Scar Away Gel.  Used 24 hours a day, every day (3 weeks - 6 months).  Kelo-Cote (6 months - present)
On Testosterone: No
Currently Strength Training: No


My last update was at 6 months (page 21, post #413).  At this time I spoke about my hypertrophic scarring.  I won't go back into that, as you can see the photos and information on that post, and prior posts.

Since that time, I have been using Kelo-cote which is "intended for the management of old and new hypertrophic and keloid scars..."  I have not been massaging because my experience with massaging was a widening of the scars.  I am sure this is was not the case (as I have not seen any research saying that does widen scars), but it is "just in my head".  Regardless, I have not been massaging.

I have not gotten cortisone shots became I know for certain that the scars widen when you do that (logical, the skin has to fall to the sides).  My theory (based on my own hope...I have read no research claiming this), is that if I let the raised scars deflate naturally, there won't be a widening effect, but instead will just sort of subside in place.  Thus far, I have seen this come to pass (except in one spot, but I had been furiously massaging that area at the time of widening).  This is one reason I continue to plan to not get cortisone shots.

So since last update, the hypertrophic scars are less "angry" so to speak and less hard.  They are slightly deflating.  They are not getting any wider as they subside in height.  They continue to get a bit lighter and are light pink.  This is significant, as most hypertrophics stay red/purple (but, mine were never purple), for at least a year.  I truly believe that the Kelo cote has made a big difference.  It has also made a significant difference in flattening out the vertical scar on my stomach from another surgery, and also the color of another scar on the top of my chest.  These scars are 4 years old and were quite "bumpy" so to speak.  The change is incredible.  I REALLY wish I had taken before pictures of these scars.  I will say that for these old scars the Scar Away gel/strips was already flattening them, and I do believe that the Scar Away gel/strips is what kept my incisions from getting as red/purple as you see with most hypertrophic scars.

In my last update I talked about contacting Garramone for consult about the cortisone shots.  I emailed him on a Sunday and never heard back.  I didn't follow up, mainly because I met Kathy Rumer, MD at a trans conference (not, not Philly's) and let her look at my chest.  She said that I should wait for a year and then come see her.  I figured Garramone would say the same.  Additionally, I didn't plan on shots, anyway (there is a risk of cortisone flattening the scar too much, creating an indentation, of sorts).

The last month or so I started thinking more about scar revision and decided even with the cost of travel, I would prefer that Garramone would do this work.  Knowing that there is a very high probability that the incisions would become hypertrophic again (some people just tend to get them after surgery, especially in the chest area), I thought we could at least talk about it.  Well, he said a couple of things:

1) They pretty much always come back and he doesn't think the surgery is worth it, but he would be willing to do it
2) I should wait a year from date of surgery to see how much better they get before making a decision
3) I should wait a year from date of surgery to see how much better they get before doing cortisone shots (I'm glad I went with my instincts to wait).
4) He would do the scar revision for FREE!  Now this one I didn't expect!

I didn't expect the free scar revision (which includes removing the entire old scar and restitching), because my scarring has nothing to do with his work.  It is just how my body heals.  So, I thought this was pretty cool.  I did mention to him that I read (in one article) that sometimes if a person gets cortisone shots every two weeks after surgery, that hypertrophic scars may not form again, but he didn't think this was really accurate.

So, my plan is to wait a year to do the cortisone shots.  I am guessing I will never get scar reduction surgery.  Honestly, it will just be too stressful and disappointing if it doesn't work and who knows if it will be worse?  Plus, I will have to start ALL OVER with hypertrophic scars again.

I also contacted Garramone because I did not like that the sides of the chest continues to have a bit of extra skin that kind of pops out to the sides.  It isn't something I see on bio males.  I knew that they were not "dog ears", nor did I think they were "back fat".  I wondered if a bit of lipo suction was in ordered.  Anyway, I sent him the picture below.  I put my arms and upper back into a position that highlighted the problem as much as possible.  Meaning, it actually doesn't look this bad when standing naturally (note my 6 months picture...the swelling on the left side did go down since that picture, as I said I hoped it would).

I have seen the look of this on many other guys (different surgeons), some a lot worse, but I have never seen them talk about it.  Garramone acknowledged what I was seeing was correct and this is his explanation:

He said that I was indeed seeing things correctly, and that this does happen to individuals who have top surgery.  What happens is that our side incision scars stop the fat from dropping down naturally like a bio male.  He said that surgeons do the best they can to take out the right amount of fat, but you can only tell so well during surgery how much to take.  He says that if you take too much out, you run the risk of creating a indentation on the sides of the chest that look weird.  That of course looks weirder than having a little extra fat there.

He said that he thought mine looked pretty good (again, I positioned my body to accentuate the fat as much as I could for picture).  He said that typically what is seen as a poor result is if the skin flops over.  As you can see, mine does not, even when I hold my body in a certain position to make it as obvious as possible.

Really, I noticed it the most when I am leaning back in a chair.  The fat flattens to the sides and it looks funny if I look over at my armpits.

Garramone said he would do a free revision on this, using lipo.  Just like the scar reduction, he said I should wait a year just to make sure none of it is swelling.  He said I should massage the sides too, to try to break down any of the scar tissue that could be impacting the issue.

Anyway, below is the picture with the fat accentuated.  I don't have another picture to post, sorry.  Pretty much though my chest looks the same as the 6 month pic, except the scars are a bit lighter.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi769.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx338%2Fclearle%2F301aa1df-2c60-4065-9ce4-6256d2968025_zpsdef6932b.jpg&hash=0e14d685f02270d70ae4da613b82579ed2974713)

P.S. If the other guys who had surgery could post updates, that would be great.

Does anyone know a good image hosting site that doesn't share your pictures with other website other than where you post the link? I would like to post photos but am weary of the chance they may be able to be "searched" for on the host's website? Anyone have any good host sites they trust? Thanks guys.

Quote from: BGking on July 20, 2014, 03:31:34 PM
Does anyone know a good image hosting site that doesn't share your pictures with other website other than where you post the link? I would like to post photos but am weary of the chance they may be able to be "searched" for on the host's website? Anyone have any good host sites they trust? Thanks guys.

You can make a Photobucket account, make an album (set it to private) and just share the uploaded pictures located in the album.

Your chest looks great, Brett. I won't worry about the underarm fat. It is normal and I have seen cis guys with it.
You body also looks very masculine and fit, especially for someone who is not on T and does not to strength training.

Quote from: SX0877 on July 20, 2014, 04:09:07 PM
Your chest looks great, Brett. I won't worry about the underarm fat. It is normal and I have seen cis guys with it.
You body also looks very masculine and fit, especially for someone who is not on T and does not to strength training.

Thanks, SXO.  Like I said, I actually moved my arms into the position where it looks the worst for the camera.  It just bugs me every time I look at it, so I really might get some free lipo done.

I need to get back to working out.  I was pretty religious about it before surgery and I have always gone back and forth with being committed to cardio and weights, or just cardio.  Then I get off track...you know how it goes.  Anyway, I wondered if working out would decrease the fat on the sides.  Logical, right?  But, since I never had that before I thought maybe it was connected to the surgery.  So, I asked him about it.

I find the whole scar tissue blocking the ability of gravity to do its job, interesting.  Anyway, I thought my long tale might be useful to someone as like I said, I have seen it before. 

Thanks for your thoughts and good wishes.

I agree with you both with the way you have your arms out, probably makes it look more exaggerated but there is some fat under the arms (and his explanation sound valid). I don't know if working out helps or not. Though it would build up your pecs which can't hurt the appearance. I do think this is less drastic than one I have seen elsewhere.

I don't really know re: the scars. I don't know how revision of scars works in people who have keloid scars, wouldn't you just scar from the revision? Or are there ways to mitigate that to some extent.


--Jay

Quote from: Brett on July 20, 2014, 06:14:27 PM
Thanks, SXO.  Like I said, I actually moved my arms into the position where it looks the worst for the camera.  It just bugs me every time I look at it, so I really might get some free lipo done.

I need to get back to working out.  I was pretty religious about it before surgery and I have always gone back and forth with being committed to cardio and weights, or just cardio.  Then I get off track...you know how it goes.  Anyway, I wondered if working out would decrease the fat on the sides.  Logical, right?  But, since I never had that before I thought maybe it was connected to the surgery.  So, I asked him about it.

I find the whole scar tissue blocking the ability of gravity to do its job, interesting.  Anyway, I thought my long tale might be useful to someone as like I said, I have seen it before. 

Thanks for your thoughts and good wishes.

I have some underarm fat on one side (actually i don't know if that is just my fat or breast tissue), it was not very noticeable at the beginning, but now it shows when I tighten my pec/shoulder muscles. The muscles kind of push the fat out to a more noticeable position.
I only work out occasionally but I'm on T so I have been gaining muscle mass and fat altogether for about 10-15 lbs since the surgery. So I guess losing fat might be more helpful than putting on muscle to solve this. But based on your photo, you definitely don't look like you need to lose weight, so going for a free lipo should be the easiest fix.

SXO, I actually DO need to lose weight (my weight has never been this high...or rather my gut has never been this big), but thank you!

Quote from: aleon515 on July 20, 2014, 07:40:03 PM
I agree with you both with the way you have your arms out, probably makes it look more exaggerated but there is some fat under the arms (and his explanation sound valid). I don't know if working out helps or not. Though it would build up your pecs which can't hurt the appearance. I do think this is less drastic than one I have seen elsewhere.

I don't really know re: the scars. I don't know how revision of scars works in people who have keloid scars, wouldn't you just scar from the revision? Or are there ways to mitigate that to some extent.


--Jay

Keloid scars are different from hypertrophics.  People often use the terms interchangeably, unfortunately.

Keloids are the really bad ones to have.  Usually it impacts individuals of African- American decent (and maybe some other dark skinned minority groups...I'm sorry I can't remember).  Keloids are the ones that can get really huge and cauliflower like.  Those almost always come back after scar revision.  Very, very hard to treat.

Hypertrophic is not genetic, and are really quite random.  I would of course still scar from the revision, but I was hoping to have a normal scar...like yours, like anyone elses.  You can google pictures of hypertrophics.  Sometimes the revised scars don't become hypertrophic, but the chance is high that they will.  I read about people who typically get hypertrophic scars getting shots of cortisone every two weeks while the fresh incision heals to try to keep it from getting hypertrophic, but Garramone wasn't convinced that this would make a difference.

In terms of working out for the puffy sides, right, it wouldn't make a difference, as it is a scar tissue issue.  I will do the massage, as he suggests.

Thanks for coming in, Jay!

Hi everyone! I know it's been ages since I popped in, I still don't have any photos to show but I wanted to say why.

I got a new phone, and apparently this particular model has serious issues with the camera, mostly it just crashes the entire thing when I try and take a picture. I thought I had finally cracked it when I realised about half an hour ago that it had a front camera. All seemed to be going well...until I tried to get them onto my computer, when it tells me they're "corrupt or missing" .... soooo .... yeeeah  :P no photos I'm afraid. There's a regular digital camera somewhere in the house but I can't find it  :(

I don't really feel like that much has changed anyway. I had my 6 month post op appointment not that long ago so I guess I'm around the 6 month mark at this point, I've lost track :D

We discussed revisions, reducing the length of my nipples, dog ears...and the poofy bits in the middle of my chest. Before he could say anything though I told him I wanted to build up some muscle and lose some fat before getting anything else done, give him a better canvas to work with.

He agreed to see me again in another 6 months to see how I was getting on and if I felt I needed a revision. I'm not entirely sure that's enough time for me to get my body to a place where I'd consider it stable enough to go for a revision but we'll see. I've been so lazy with working out since surgery but I'm back on track now....on an exercise bike right this second in fact  :P

I'm really not sure about the nipple thing, though I have noticed that my nips do look permanently erect under thin shirts :P it's just the idea of having the ends of them sliced off....ick =/

9 Days Post-op update to inform all prospective guys on what they could experience after surgery.
Type: Peri-Areolar (Less invasive procedure)
Surgeon: Dr. Rockmore

I haven't felt much pain since the surgery. I was just very tired and slept for a large majority of the first week. I was prescribed weak pain killers (Percocets and an antibiotic). I didn't have a problem with either, just make sure you eat before taking them. My drains and stitches were removed two days ago. It felt very strange to have someone pull plastic tubing out of a hole in your skin but it wasn't painful; it just burned a lot. Since then I've felt 100% better than with them in. They were very irritating and kinda itchy where they were located under my arms. Now that they're gone, I feel a little less tired and less sore. Most of my left pec is still numb and my right is sore. I still have medical tape on my left because it wasn't ready to come off when the stitches were removed. The dr said the tape will fall off when it is ready. I've just been sponge bathing because I'm afraid to shower (Gross I know, I hate feeling dirty but I'm really nervous to shower). Now I'm wearing a compression vest and am just resting. But really all I can say as of now is that there hasn't been too much pain. So I hoped this helps anyone gauge the early recovery stage. I'll keep you guys updated. Here are some pictures from two days ago. (The purple is just marker and there's some dried blood around my nipples).

P.S. Anyone know any good ways to shower without ruining anything? :P

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1383.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah303%2Fbeasteric%2FSandwich%2F617a9d05-d8f6-4ca1-a8f5-ce81f8fffa65_zps15aaad32.jpg&hash=b3bde67b889dbf145ea72f788806f0e8a90e132f) (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/beasteric/media/Sandwich/617a9d05-d8f6-4ca1-a8f5-ce81f8fffa65_zps15aaad32.jpg.html)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1383.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah303%2Fbeasteric%2FSandwich%2Fjj_zpscb1ce45b.jpg&hash=b4e229e0e10ee93f7ccebd979ea9d3932b727e85) (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/beasteric/media/Sandwich/jj_zpscb1ce45b.jpg.html)

Quote from: chipper on July 24, 2014, 07:28:09 AM
Looking good BGking. I was also in Rockmores office 2 days ago...small world. Wonder if I saw you!

Thanks man! :) Oh wow that's crazy, what time were you there? I arrived around 1:15pm and left at about 2pm. There were several people in the waiting room when I got there so it's definitely a possibility! :P

Quote from: chipper on July 24, 2014, 11:40:25 AM
Whoa, I was there around the same time!!!
I arrived at like 1:25... left around 2pm as well. I was wearing jeans and a white t-shirt.
Whens your next follow-up appointment? I go back in September.
Do you live nearby? If you ever wanna rendezvous, I'm game.
Happy healing, amigo... your chest looks AWESOME.

No way dude! Yeah I think I did see you, did you have a hat on by chance? My next follow up is in one month; late August I believe. I don't live in NY but in Southern Massachusetts. And yeah dude definitely game, once I'm recovered a little more if you ever wanna do something just message me or someway and we can try to get together. Thanks dude!

Haha this is crazy this is the second meetup that's happened because of this thread :D

*waves to Maximusflavius* .... I know you're lurking there somewhere

I got my camera to work at last, huzzah, you can now all be graced with my godly physique

7 months ish post op

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1130.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm528%2FJeatyn%2F7months_zpsb0089272.png&hash=764b8ad496bf7ab85686e9dfe686bf333dadb328)


PS: BGKing, Dayum! To the chest and the rest of it :D As for showering, do you perhaps have a poncho? That might work.

Hahah wow I didn't realize this thread has brought others together, and thank you on the compliment. :) You look incredible! You're only 7 months? Those lines are faded quite well for that amount of time! :)

I don't have a poncho, unfortunately. I'm just scared the water pressure will damage or hurt my chest as I don't have shower that can change settings. Can you feel your chest? My right is almost back to full feeling but my left (bandaged side) is still almost completely numb. It's strange. Must've "dug" a little deeper on that side as I believe it contained more tissue than the other. XD

I got my feeling completely back a few days after surgery...it sucked, I had to go back and beg for pain meds. All good now though!

The first thing I did when I got home was attempt to shower but I had my partner just sorta hose me down avoiding the chest xD it felt like ages before I was able to give everything a good scrub and get all the stickiness and pen marks off, baby wipes are a good alternative until you can do it properly.

Quote from: Elliot on January 22, 2014, 08:56:41 AM
Congrats to everyone here on finally getting surgery! I had my surgery 6 weeks ago, was unfortunate enough to loose my left nipple graft but strangely it's still healed really well and looks a lot like a nipple so I'm not too bothered. My scars are still pretty red as it's so recent, but in terms of the general shape and appearance I'm really pleased.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1231.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee506%2F93gravy%2F6weeks2.jpg&hash=2eefe19f7bdd3cdb3534e67cad6441f5c5982e55)


(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1231.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee506%2F93gravy%2F6weeks1.jpg&hash=af71ffb819bdb7afd021820dfb05b64431c27dd7)

Looks good, I had top surgery 10 days ago and have a lot of swelling especially on the right. Just wondered whether you had significant swelling? Also did you have a large chest originally?

BGking.  Your chest looks fantastic!  Thanks for the thorough write up and pictures.  It has been two days since you have written, so you have probably figured out the shower by now!  Garramone just had us guys keep our backs to the shower heads and slowing let the water wash over our backs down our chests.  I just would gently put soapy water across my areolas with my hands.  He told me to not face the shower head for 3 weeks.

Jeatyn, your chest looks really great!  Wow that is some good scar healing very fast.  I am happy for you.  Your chest came out really well.  Thank you for the updated picture!

Surgery date: 7/24/2014
Surgeon: Dr. Garramone


I finally get to join this thread! So, sorry for the lateness of this post. I've been enjoying an excuse to be extremely lazy and not do anything. Honestly, I need to stop being quite as lazy, as I really need to get back to my usual activities. Anyway, I'll sum up my entire experience here.

I actually ended up leaving Osaka around 1pm on July 21st and arriving in florida around 7:30-8pm on the same day thanks to the international dateline. I met my bestie/sister there in Ft. Lauderdale at the airport and we took a cab to the Comforte Suite hotel that Dr. G's office recommends. A word of warning, don't take independent cabs in Ft. Lauderdale; they are just scalpers. Go with yellow cab. It wouldn't have been a problem if I had thought to call ahead for a shuttle or get a temp cell phone before I even arrived in the country since I was not going to take my Japanese cellphone and get insane charges.

Since I live in Asia, I decided to get my physical and clearance through a local doctor in Florida rather than trying to locate an English speaking doctor here who could do the medical paperwork to the satisfaction of an American surgeon. I went to the doctor that Dr. G's office told me about on the 22nd and they were great. It was a quick in and out, fairly close to the hotel and the doctor was really nice (and nice looking to boot). Turns out I'm pretty darn healthy, aside from needing to lose a little weight, which I already knew. I was able to do a walk in with their office at around 9am, and I was out by 11, I think. From there we went to walmart and stocked up on more than enough things and an ungodly amount junk food. Ever since we were kids, the second my best and I get together we revert to being daring 7 year olds who think that our stomachs are made of iron and that very small graphical errors on video games are the most hilarious thing in the world. She also suggested picking up some canned soups which, as it turned out, was a very good idea. We did order out a few times, but that was because I wanted to. We really wouldn't have had to at all.

The 23rd was the pre-op and I was scheduled for 11am. I arrived, checked in and found out from Jodi that my bloodwork had not been faxed over. I called the doctor's office, had a mini panic attack and ended up waiting until 1pm to be seen. I'm not sure if this was because of the paperwork (which had still not arrived when I was called back) or because of how busy he was. There were so many other guys in there that it was crazy. I mean, I know that there are a lot more of us out there than who are on here, but honestly, I had never expected to see so many guys there like me. It was kind of interesting. Though, I believe I was the only gay one, which was made funnier by the fact that everyone assumed S was my girlfriend. Anyway, pre-op was short and sweet, couple of pictures and I had to lose my nipple piercings, but I'm getting those puppies back eventually, if only for aesthetics. I was given three prescriptions (antibiotic, painkiller, nausea meds) and I went ahead and purchased the arnica and the bromelain, as well as the scarguard from his office. I probably would have been fine without the herbals, but I figured it couldn't hurt and frankly, I think they did help. They told me if it was a cost issue to just get scarguard, but after the amount of money I had put in a little more wasn't going to hurt. His office is located near a Publix and they offer a pretty good discount on the prescriptions from his office, so its certainly not a huge deal to pick them up in Florida.

As it turned out, I was the first surgery of the day on 7/24, so I had to get there at 6am. After some paperwork, the surgical center fee and a urine sample I was taken back to the pre-op area. I forgot my compression socks in the hotel room, but I actually ended up not needing them at all since they have heated leg massaging things they put on you in the OR. After getting dressed in my lovely gown and getting settled in the bed I got to meet the anesthesiologist and the RN who was in the OR with me. They were both quite nice and the nurse had an excellent manner. I had a conch piercing which gave them some trouble getting out (I also wasn't able to get it back in, sadly). S was brought back with me and she and I ended up chatting and, as per usual, laughing like hyenas. Dr. G. came back and drew on my chest. I was really relieved to see that he was awake and alert, since I am a terrible morning person. The nurse thought we were amusing and even commented that I apparently didn't need "happy drugs" in my IV. When they did give me the benzo, I have to say, that was awesome. Everything was great. My nurse that I probably wouldn't remember anything, but I do remember a good deal compared to what I've heard others say. In the OR I was moved to another table, covered with a toasty blanket, had my arms strapped out and the leg massagers put on. I remember telling the nurses about Alaska and live in Osaka and when the anethesia was put in my IV it burned a little. I remember complaining to the anesthesiologist that she needed to "heat up the drugs before she molested me with them", then taking two deep breathe from the oxygen mask, everything getting fuzzy and nothing. I woke up in the recovery room and I was in pain. Apparently I woke up way too early and I was given from demerol for the pain, though for some reason the nurse gave me a shot instead of putting in my IV (a fact that I still am kinda ticked about). S was brought back early my mistake and I remember her talked to me and I think I was complaining to her about hurting. Anyway, I dozed back off and I apparently I slept for two more hours. It was after 11 when I finally woke up, and I could still feel a decent amount of pain. The nurse wouldn't give me anything else, and in hindsight she knew what she was doing. I was pissed though.

The next several days were actually a lot easier than I thought they would be. I slept that first day and its pretty much a haze. But, after that I was fine and aside from some drowsiness from the pain medication I didn't sleep any more than normal. I just did so in weird bursts and my hours are still wonky. I'm waking up at 5:30am and falling asleep at like, 9. I had a draining problem with my right drain that we had to go back to the surgical center to address. The nurse showed us how to empty the drains but she did not tell us how to strip them in the event that they became clogged, which is exactly what happened with my right one. I went in the day after surgery, maybe about 24 hours after surgery and Dr. G stripped the drain and showed us how to do it. He was really sweet about it and was pretty surprised by how much sensation I had. I could feel the vacuum in the drain basically suck a lot of fluid out. It was weirdest feeling, and it hurt a decent bit. He patted my shoulder a few times and told me "Don't worry, you're fine buddy!" It ended up being a good thing that I went in though, because the bulb was a malfunctioning one and the drain stopper that prevented fluid from going back up popped out when he stripped the drain. They changed it free of charge and I was in and out in maybe an hour and half, though it only took so long because Dr. G was in surgery. That and the constipation are the only hiccups I have had in recovery thus far.

My range of movement is coming back great, and I can get around a lot better than I thought I would be able to. The only strange thing is the differed sensation from the nerves and the weird pulling sensation I get around my left nipple. Its painful, just really weird. My nipples look icky, but I think that's to be expected. I'll post pictures eventually. I have A LOT of sensation though, and the only numbness is my scars a small area around them. I can feel some stinging in the nipple grafts when water his them and I can feel pressure and some sensation when I put the xeroform and nerosporin on.

The flight back wasn't too bad, I managed to get around fine. I would say to anyone travelling internationally get as direct a route as possible like I did and avoid JFK if possible, That airport was a damn nightmare for me.

So, with the overview out of the way, I'll get into a couple specifics:

Dr. Garramone was really, really sweet. I don't get what the complaints about his bedside manner are. He was friendly, relaxed, open, professional and generally just very comfortable to be around. His staff were great, all of my questions were answered in a timely fashion and I have no complaints. When my paperwork had not cleared, I told them the name of the doctor and that was the end of that. Jodi and Dr. Garramone said that they knew the doctor I saw and he was excellent about getting results to them. In the event that they had not had them at the end of the business day, Dr. Garramone said he knew he would have them in the morning no problem. I honestly can't think of a single complaint about the practice, and after my reveal, I felt very confident that I had made the right choice. Due to my weight (I'm not huge, I'm just stocky and a bit heavy at the moment, though I am already losing weight) I was concerned about dogearring and needing lipo, but after taking the tape off the incisions (I did so in the shower last night) I have no puckering, no dogearring, my incisions are flat and for the most part very straight. I have very little swelling that is already noticeably less and I had only a slight amount of bruising. I honestly can't even imagine myself going anywhere else.

I do have one warning I want to give to others though: Dr. G DOES NOT take chest tattoos into consideration when placing nipples. So, if you are anal about your tattoos potentially being disrupted by a nipple being grafted on top of them you may want to reconsider surgeons or talk to him during your consultation. My right nipple is placed partially in my tattoo and my left just barely covers a bit of it. I don't really mind and it doesn't screw up my ink all that much, but if it had been an elaborate one it may have ended up looking worse. I don't regret my choice at all, but some people may.

Another thing I wanted to mention was my choice of lodging (very happy with) and weird encounter my friend had. After a lot of thought I decided against NBR. A lot of people swear by it, but it just didn't sit right with me for some reason. I already dislike being around a lot of strangers and I never liked bed and breakfasts, so I didn't see the appeal at all. The selling point of 'you can meet a lot people' was not appealing to me and I wasn't really going there to be social. I know I could have stayed in my room, but it would have still been staying in someone's home essentially. I didn't need company or anything like that since S and I are really quite skilled at entertaining ourselves. We laughed at emulator program because it was called 'sluss' for about, I'm sadly not kidding, 15 minutes. I nearly pee'd myself. So I was not worried about being bored. Yes, we had to take cabs, but it wasn't that much really, and even with buying my own food for the hotel (every room comes with a fridge and microwave since they have a lot of post-op recovery stays) and paying for cabs, it ended up being the same price if not a little less than going to NBR. The day of surgery, I didn't need to take cabs at all, as the office set me up with a car service free of charge there and back to the hotel. It was an excellent service. The only hiccup was that the guy who had surgery after me left at the same time (since I slept for so long after) and thanks to his mother and my being insanely loopy the driver took five of us back to the hotel. I should have just taken the car since it was for me and not all of us, but I wasn't in the mindset to make any choices (normally I would have thrown a fit) and S didn't want to make me wait any longer since I really just wanted to get back and sleep. But, the important point is that it was free and still essentially being put in a van and driven back, so that was no different than if i had stayed at NBR.

At the surgical center, when I was in surgery, the owner of NBR came to the surgical center and was handing out his card and inviting people to come to the retreat for get together/social event. He was talking to another couple and tapped S on the shoulder, handed her his card and invited her and her partner to come hang out and chill with 'the guys'. It struck her as odd and it does to me too. I mean, its a surgical center that about 30 doctors work at and Dr. G wasn't the only one who had patients there. I'm sure he would say he was doing it be nice, but to me its just really, really weird. I mean, he handed out his card to random people and invited people who had just had surgery, who were staying in hotels and who couldn't shower or be presentable or in some cases sober thanks to pain meds, to come and hang out at his b&b/house. How did he knew she was with me? She wasn't wearing a sign, so unless he was looking at her computer while she messaged my husband to let him I know I was okay, that means he was just assuming random things about random people. That doesn't sit right with me. Its just a strange, kinda creepy and odd thing to do. So, thanks to that and a few other things I have been told and read, I am extremely happy I didn't go there.

The rides to from surgery, the cost which ended up being the same if not cheaper, the weird encounter and the fact that I met one of the nurses that Dr. Garramone puts the guys traveling alone in touch with and she was very sweet, I honestly can't see any reason why they are a better choice than a hotel. Unless you are exceedingly social or can't manage on your own, I don't think its worth it. That's just me. I'm sure the owner is a nice enough guy, and I don't have anything against him. This is just my opinion and my thoughts, so don't take anything I say as gospel or even personally. A lot of guys swear by their experiences, and a lot of them think it was not the best idea. I fall into the latter.

I've pretty much written a novel... yeesh. Sorry for the wall o'text. If anyone has any specific questions I will do my best to answer them. I have a couple of quick questions of my own for guys who went to Dr. G.

-Did you guys use the scarguard or did you go directly to using strips?
-Did you wear your ace bandage the two weeks after drain removal or did you wearing it for longer/shorter duration?
-Now much neosporin did you use over the xeroform and did it last all three weeks? I swear it looks like it isn't enough at all.
-How did you know you were healed enough to stop bandaging the nipples?

I'm so overly paranoid about screwing up my results.

ETA: I promised S that I would add that I was an awful patient and even if you can do something, probably don't if you don't have to and let someone else do it. I was okay to travel but I did tire much faster. I'm almost fine to do most things around my house but I have to keep telling myself its okay to harass my husband.