Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hello. I hesitated quite some time before deciding to share my situation hoping to come to a better understanding of the trans community. I hope I can express myself well enough to not be mistaken.

I'm struggling with a situation that comes as a culmination of all my contacts in life with mtf trans persons and the fact that they have all had elements of sexual inappropriate ness. I've been called a bigot for being upset  about what happened today. I came here searching for some answers and I guess to explain I should start at the beginning.

My first mtf contact was online several years ago. The person identified herself as a lesbian female. Over the course of a few weeks she kept slipping comments into conversations of a sexual nature. Not being interested I said so, but did not cut off contact due to recognizing that this person had some issues and could probably use a friend. Eventually cut off contact when it became clear that what was a level of sexual harrasment would not stop. Later learned of her preop mtf status.
Fast forward a few years, and I'm out in public at a library and a non passing mtf transexual (she identified as such which I knew due to the fact that it was written in glitter across her hat) sits across from me at the table. I look up and say hello politely and go back to my homework. After a minute or so she strikes up a conversation about the internet connection, then transitions it suddenly to a monologue about men not understanding women's needs sexually. Who does that with a stranger seriously?
Fast forward some more and in a strange public encounter another stranger, an mtf decides to walk up and ask me how their breasts look. Gape mouthed and stunned for a good 30 seconds I finally reply with "that's an awkward question" and walk away.
And finally today, a preop bottom mtf transgender in my health club locker room while I'm dressing, obviously sexually aroused.

All of these put together have created a downward spiral in my opinion of the community. I feel violated in the same way I do when a man passing by says nice rack or a lesbian friend doesn't respect my no answer. I feel angry for being characterized as a bigot for wanting to feel sexually safe.
And ultimately I'm left asking the question on Google that brought me yo this site, why are these mtf people I have met  all about sex. I've never had a cis female who was a stranger try to talk to me about sex or ask me to comment on their breasts. Most lesbians I've known have easily taken not interested for an answer and definitely didn't put their sexuality on display in vulnerable situations.

So all that being said,  the only theory I could come up with was that maybe this is the stereotypes an mtf comes to femininity with and doesn't understand the "circle" when it comes to discussing private things? Meaning friends may have conversations that invade personal space but its not just any other person of that gender.

So what am I missing here? Why do all my mtf interactions have this strange personal boundary issues? How do I support equality without having my own safety violated? And why is it not ok with the politically correct crowd for me to have an issue with an erection in proximity to my naked body without permission just because the owner identifies as fem?


-confused and... A lot of other things

You are just finding the bad apples somehow. Most of us want to quietly blend in and just live. I have met some of the girls you talk about and rest assured, this is not how the biggest majority of us act at all. If you read the postings here we do not want to attract attention like this as it makes us a BIG target for all kinds of abuse and danger. Most of us just want to work, pay bills, live out lives and have a normal existence. I would be just as horrified being approached by these inappropriate types myself. It is just a case of there always being one in every bunch. Please don't put us in the same category as the one's you have met. Most of us you pass on the street every day and will never know it. Jerks will be everywhere you go anymore. I hope this helps. :)

You have certainly met some strange and inappropriate transsexuals.

The aroused pre-op in the locker room takes the cake.  Of course all the examples you give are outrageous.  The all take a lot of brashness.

I would like to suggest that have probably met a lot more MTF transsexuals, but just weren't aware of them. Most are incredible shy and very unlikely to call attention to themselves in any way at all. 

It saddens us that when we see people on the Jerry Springer show behaving in outrageous ways.

What you have seen is the very ugly tip or a much larger hidden iceberg.  You've also seen men in suits who are wearing frilly underwear underneath.  You've seen transwomen who pass so well they never arouse suspicion. You've seen very masculine women who don't pass well, but you will never know for sure how they were born.

Randi

Quote from: locame on February 18, 2014, 12:17:03 AM
I'm struggling with a situation that comes as a culmination of all my contacts in life with mtf trans persons and the fact that they have all had elements of sexual inappropriate ness.

Quote from: Randi on February 18, 2014, 12:44:08 AM
The aroused pre-op in the locker room takes the cake.

No kidding Randi! WOW!

Locame, another reason we do not act this way is like where I live. We have to get what is called a "carry letter" to use female facilities. If we acted this way it would be revoked immediately and our psychologist's notified. This could effect any future transitional related procedures and could get us dropped without any future assistance from our therapist's and we need them for other letters like Hormone Replacement Therapy and Sexual Reassignment Surgery. I would report behavior like you witnessed to the facility management team ASAP.

You both raised a point I hadn't really thought of. You're right that I have likely met others and just didn't know. There were a couple of others I did know by were elderly and not at all weird.

And yeah, I don't really pay attention I suppose unless the person calls it to my attention. Some reading here did show me that it wasn't all what I had experienced. An yeah, the other incidents while uncomfortable were not the equal of today. As I said, the worst part being feeling blamed for being uncomfortable. My only response calmly though i didnt feel xalm, was to verbally was to suggest one of the private dressing areas since the women and children's room wasn't the place for a sexualized environment. You would have thought I had preached fire and brimstone by her and her friends reaction. Still a little shaken up I guess. Yes, I realize not every penis is out to rape, but it seems only a logical thing to keep things nonsexualized in a public area.

Fyi I did report and ended up getting a "we'll look into it".

I hope we have painted a little better light of our community for you? If not just ask more questions as we will be happy to answer them for you. Some of the inappropriate ones more than likely are possibly self medicating because they have been turned down by the medical community for not being all that stable. Don't get me wrong here, not ALL self medicators are irresponsible though, but it sounds like the ones you have run into possible have denying psychological issues for proper transition. Just my opinion though.

The majority of MTF are into women (only), very often have a (very) masculine nature and sometimes behave like straight men..


I couldn't get my head around it when I came out  as a MTF (whose  into masculine men only) but gotten used to it and learned to avoid them IRL....since some of them don't and won't understand I'm not into women at all.

I attended a MTF meeting a couple of years ago...a middle aged MTF chatted me up and asked if I had SRS....to my 'no, I haven't' she responded to my astonishment with 'oh, so you still can have intercourse with your wife'

It turned out to be unnecessary to explain I wasn't into women at all, let alone married to one; she didn't understand.
Like many lesbian MTF, bi and straight men refuse to believe I was never with a woman for the simple reason I'm not into women at all thus never 'tried'  too.

I felt violated on many occasions too...especially when ex straight/lesbian MTF turn out to be homophobic and calling MTF who are into men only 'sex change queers' etc....when I turned down their 'hitting on me'..
And yes, I've called a 'bigot' too when I turned down MTF and 'straight' men who turned out to be (fetish) tv's, cd's or even pre MTF themselves.

I am MAAB. but living as a girl and this has been my experience too at every turn.. :/  lots of sexual harrassment and inapropriateness going on inside the community too.. (that includes on this site in PMs or often just overtly) makes me feel uncomfortable being here and not want to be associated with trans people. I hate that I have to feel that way but I am not OK with this stuff at all. I think a lot of MAAB people just don't understand what is appropriate. Idk.. it's the elephant in the room and I'm just sick of ignoring it.

Quote from: Randi on February 18, 2014, 12:44:08 AM
You have certainly met some strange and inappropriate transsexuals.

The aroused pre-op in the locker room takes the cake.  Of course all the examples you give are outrageous.  The all take a lot of brashness.

I would like to suggest that have probably met a lot more MTF transsexuals, but just weren't aware of them. Most are incredible shy and very unlikely to call attention to themselves in any way at all. 

It saddens us that when we see people on the Jerry Springer show behaving in outrageous ways.

What you have seen is the very ugly tip or a much larger hidden iceberg.  You've also seen men in suits who are wearing frilly underwear underneath.  You've seen transwomen who pass so well they never arouse suspicion. You've seen very masculine women who don't pass well, but you will never know for sure how they were born.

Randi

Your avatar and quote are an example of the problem. :/ maybe you have to think of women as human beings to understand any of this.

Quote from: Dahlia on February 18, 2014, 01:30:12 AM
The majority of MTF are into women (only), very often have a (very) masculine nature and sometimes behave like straight men..


I couldn't get my head around it when I came out  as a MTF (whose  into masculine men only) but gotten used to it and learned to avoid them IRL....since some of them don't and won't understand I'm not into women at all.

I attended a MTF meeting a couple of years ago...a middle aged MTF chatted me up and asked if I had SRS....to my 'no, I haven't' she responded to my astonishment with 'oh, so you still can have intercourse with your wife'

It turned out to be unnecessary to explain I wasn't into women at all, let alone married to one; she didn't understand.

I felt violated too...especially when ex straight/lesbian MTF turn out to be homophobic and calling MTF who are into men only 'sex change queers' etc....when I turned down their 'hitting on me'..

I remember I posted a pic of my cat once and a member (30 yrs older than me?)sent me an unsolicited message with a pic of them in lingerie that happened to have their cat in it. they were like, I can't post this in public heheh. So gross....

Well..


For encounter Number one! I would say this person may not have been on HRT.. You see~ From the effects of Tesosterone.. it could have pushed that person over the edge and all she wanted was sexsexsex.

#2 Just... So weird. There is an effect among us, I have observed that we strongly strongly try to overdo the femininity thing. Which isn't wrong initself! Some girls are that way. But there are some I've noticed that try so hard they are just copying things they saw in TV shows..


#3 idk even. I don't even have a explaination for that one.


I do however understand your.. concern. We are far from a homogenous type of community~ I would say.. you're not a bigot for disliking these people, doing these weird things.. I just hope you don't lump them together with us. I hope you'll get to see some positive experiences as well!

Geez, just thinking about doing any of those things makes me want to hide my face in shame. Sex is nice and all but there's a time and place and just because you're comfortable doing something, that doesn't mean everyone around you is comfortable with you doing it. I sincerely apologize for what happened, and as the others have stated before, I would like to say the majority of us are nothing like that and try our hardest to lay low. You just unfortunately seem to have been in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people multiple times.

Quote from: locame on February 18, 2014, 12:17:03 AM
Hello. I hesitated quite some time before deciding to share my situation hoping to come to a better understanding of the trans community. I hope I can express myself well enough to not be mistaken.

I'm struggling with a situation that comes as a culmination of all my contacts in life with mtf trans persons and the fact that they have all had elements of sexual inappropriate ness. I've been called a bigot for being upset  about what happened today. I came here searching for some answers and I guess to explain I should start at the beginning.

My first mtf contact was online several years ago. The person identified herself as a lesbian female. Over the course of a few weeks she kept slipping comments into conversations of a sexual nature. Not being interested I said so, but did not cut off contact due to recognizing that this person had some issues and could probably use a friend. Eventually cut off contact when it became clear that what was a level of sexual harrasment would not stop. Later learned of her preop mtf status.
Fast forward a few years, and I'm out in public at a library and a non passing mtf transexual (she identified as such which I knew due to the fact that it was written in glitter across her hat) sits across from me at the table. I look up and say hello politely and go back to my homework. After a minute or so she strikes up a conversation about the internet connection, then transitions it suddenly to a monologue about men not understanding women's needs sexually. Who does that with a stranger seriously?
Fast forward some more and in a strange public encounter another stranger, an mtf decides to walk up and ask me how their breasts look. Gape mouthed and stunned for a good 30 seconds I finally reply with "that's an awkward question" and walk away.
And finally today, a preop bottom mtf transgender in my health club locker room while I'm dressing, obviously sexually aroused.

All of these put together have created a downward spiral in my opinion of the community. I feel violated in the same way I do when a man passing by says nice rack or a lesbian friend doesn't respect my no answer. I feel angry for being characterized as a bigot for wanting to feel sexually safe.
And ultimately I'm left asking the question on Google that brought me yo this site, why are these mtf people I have met  all about sex. I've never had a cis female who was a stranger try to talk to me about sex or ask me to comment on their breasts. Most lesbians I've known have easily taken not interested for an answer and definitely didn't put their sexuality on display in vulnerable situations.

So all that being said,  the only theory I could come up with was that maybe this is the stereotypes an mtf comes to femininity with and doesn't understand the "circle" when it comes to discussing private things? Meaning friends may have conversations that invade personal space but its not just any other person of that gender.

So what am I missing here? Why do all my mtf interactions have this strange personal boundary issues? How do I support equality without having my own safety violated? And why is it not ok with the politically correct crowd for me to have an issue with an erection in proximity to my naked body without permission just because the owner identifies as fem?


-confused and... A lot of other things

Welcome to our world. This is confusing. So sorry these things have happened to you.

As others have stated, the sex thing is very weird. Usually, MTFs have a huge drop in libido and can control it better than an average male.

For me erections are quite rare, and without physical stimulation, unheard of.

A couple of your examples make me think those folks were not on hormone replacement therapy.

Social ackwardness does haunt many trans folk especially when they are alone. That too, may be an issue.

Finally, you sure have run into your share of trans folk. There are transitioners in this community who have not had as many encounters as you, let alone negative ones. Do you wear magnets or something? :p

Some topics on the non transition/detransition forum make an interesting read:

Quote from: retransition on January 28, 2014, 04:02:10 AM


I also think that a lot of transwomen have lost site of real and legitimate concerns of non trans women in regards to their own personal safety and psychological well being. I hate to admit this but I have to be honest— this is making me feel more and more uncomfortable being associated with the trans community. I don't define myself as a feminist but I can understand the reasons why there are many women (and this is not just restricted to feminists or radical feminists) who are sincerely uncomfortable with transwomen in female gendered spaces and this is something that we need to keep talking about and negotiating with all of the stakeholders in this conversation.

I see more and more transwomen defining their penis as a "female organ", yet these same people fail to empathize with natal women (hell even other transwomen for that matter) who are now expected to be ok with potentially seeing a fully erect penis in a women's  locker room . Right now a prominent "gender activist" is setting out to debunk a story that surfaced of such a thing happening. (The report appeared in a letter submitted to an advice column in Toronto.)  Even though it now appears that there really was a woman who filed a complaint about this incident to her local YMCA, a lot of LGBT media is still repeating the accusation that the columnist and his paper deliberately fabricated this letter as part of some dark "transmisogynistic" conspiracy, thus tarnishing the name and reputation of the  journalist and his paper.  Of course, we don't know exactly what happened in that locker room and we can't be certain that the woman's accusations are correct.  The columnist, in his original column recognized this and, after writing some respectful things about trans people, went on to say that IF what she was reporting was correct, this was extremely rare. He was emphatic in expressing his opinion that transwomen are women "full stop" and have the absolute right to be in that locker room but stated the obvious—that the behavior she was reporting, IF true, was unacceptable.

Human biology being what it is, something like this is eventually going to happen and at that point we are all going to need to have an honest conversation. (Another common talking point is that once a transwoman starts HRT  the penis itself shrinks and no longer can become erect. For some this is true – but for many others, well ... not so much.) You can only go on censoring these types of stories for so long. Some of them are going to be true so I don't see discussing an advice column discussing how to handle this in a way that is respectful to both trans and non trans people is something we need to censor.

The most troubling aspect of this now being dismissed as a "trans-hoax" is the fact that I can't rule out the possibility that there is a woman who experienced something traumatic and the fact that the experience is now being "erased" and ridiculed.  Until we are absolutely sure this woman is "fictional" why would someone want to risk the possibility of victimizing a woman a second time?  How can anyone be ok with that?  Why would someone be comfortable risking doing that to someone?

I know that I am focusing on transwomen in this post but there is a reason for that. Being a pre-op/non-op transwoman being completely nude and visible in a women's locker room is fundamentally different than a pre-op/non-op transman in a men's. This is something that can't be legislated.  I am fairly certain that a naked and exposed pre-op/non-op transman in a men's locker room is likely to be worried about getting raped by the other men around him.  I don't think that the transwoman has the same concerns (although she might risk getting beaten up.)  It is important for me to add that I think that the majority of pre-op/non-op transwomen would be horrified to be seen by other women this way and are "modest"  and respectful enough to avoid these situations.  But when transwomen make the argument that they are no different in any significant way from a natal woman or that a transman is exactly the same thing as a natal man I have to challenge that.

Sadly you have run into some weirdos.I've met them too,the last one being an MTF who thought because I was wearing leather pants she could grab my ass.I gripped her throat either side of the windpipe and gave her a good squeeze and shake while saying "Hands off bitch". I was made out to be in the wrong for this.I've had my hair pulled hard enough to hurt to be told "Sorry thought it was a wig" like that's some excuse,I punched her out and was again made out to be in the wrong.I'm bi and have also been told that I'm disgusting for it.I've even been told that my favourite choice of music(metal and punk) was wrong for a "real" TS.

The sort of experience you had is the reason I won't go anywhere near a large trans event anymore. I'm a pretty non-sexual person and comments and behaviors of a sexual nature make me very uncomfortable. Not all of us are like that, but enough are that experiences like yours will likely continue. Just don't hold it against all of us.

Hi locame.

I'm genuinely sorry that you've experienced those situations. I would be just as shocked and in disbelief as you.

This is one big reason that I choose not to associate with the wider local trans community, except for one individual ( although we're in completely different worlds ). Being 'out' like that is not the way I want to live. The other reason being that I identify as female only, not trans, regardless of the obvious technicality. That's always been the case for me, and I lean towards being a feminist too.

So, as many have said, many of us just want nothing more than to live life, work, pay bills etc. That's the way I live.

Quote from: SammyRose on February 18, 2014, 04:32:18 AM
Hi locame.

I'm genuinely sorry that you've experienced those situations. I would be just as shocked and in disbelief as you.

This is one big reason that I choose not to associate with the wider local trans community, except for one individual ( although we're in completely different worlds ). Being 'out' like that is not the way I want to live. The other reason being that I identify as female only, not trans, regardless of the obvious technicality. That's always been the case for me, and I lean towards being a feminist too.

So, as many have said, many of us just want nothing more than to live life, work, pay bills etc. That's the way I live.

These are my thoughts as well, except I've been recently trying to stop isolating myself from the community in real life and get over my own transphobia which is very deeply ingrained in me.

Op, I hope you'll understand that there are many different sorts in the trans community and not all of us are like that.  To be honest, I've also had weird interactions with other trans women that made me feel uncomfortable, but I also met some really wonderful people.   Because this is a support forum, I'll hold some of my more controversial thoughts;however, I do sympathize with your experience and understand some of the confusion. Just keep in mind there are plenty of normal trans women out there who wish to lead a normal life taht would be just bewildered as you were by that behavior.   I know I would and am sure many others here would be to.  Thank you for coming here to gain some further insight before making a complete impression. 

Hey there,

If it can help, I've experienced way, way worse from women or (mostly) men in the subway at night, in the airport, in the library....

Quote from: ganjina on February 18, 2014, 06:38:47 AM
Hey there,

If it can help, I've experienced way, way worse from women or (mostly) men in the subway at night, in the airport, in the library....

That may be true, but inappropriate behavior is inappropriate behavior no matter the level or who it comes from.  We can't excuse it.  That being said, I'd like to think this applies to a small minority of our community and not representative of most of us in the transexual community.  Most I've met are not like that.

You know what I call this ...
bad luck :/

Its like if every dog I met on the street tried to bite me...but there are sooo many more dogs that wont try that ,,,I just wasnt lucky to meet them instead of the others...

Yeah most mtf are shy and decent ,,,thats why they blend into the crowd well...

Quote from: learningtolive on February 18, 2014, 07:13:46 AM
That may be true, but inappropriate behavior is inappropriate behavior no matter the level or who it comes from.  We can't excuse it.  That being said, I'd like to think this applies to a small minority of our community and not representative of most of us in the transexual community.  Most I've met are not like that.

Am not excusing anything, just saying.

Funny thing is, I have had more 'advances' and comments after starting HRT than I ever did before, and all those from cis folks.

I find the OP hard to believe.

Quote from: LordKAT on February 18, 2014, 08:37:28 AM
Funny thing is, I have had more 'advances' and comments after starting HRT than I ever did before, and all those from cis folks.

I find the OP hard to believe.

Me too..

Quote from: locame on February 18, 2014, 12:17:03 AM
Why do all my mtf interactions have this strange personal boundary issues?

I'm even more confused by that than you considering that I'm a gay man who's been around MTFs on so many occasions I can't even count and I haven't had even one experience like that. I'm 45 years old. Everyone is different, of course, and I won't make generalizations about MTFs based on my anecdotal experiences *ahem*, but I will say my experiences have generally been nearly the exact opposite. I've found them to mostly be a bit prudish and reserved, something that I chalked up to fearing for their own safety and just being shy because they've spent their entire lives socialized as male and they're finally finding their true selves very late in their lives compared to most folks.

Quote from: locame on February 18, 2014, 12:17:03 AM
How do I support equality without having my own safety violated? And why is it not ok with the politically correct crowd for me to have an issue with an erection in proximity to my naked body without permission just because the owner identifies as fem?

By addressing problems that specific individuals have. An erection in the locker room would make most people uncomfortable, even in the men's locker room, and you're right to have an issue with that particular person. I honestly can't explain why your anecdotal experiences with trans women have been so different from mine. I know "freaky" people are out there and I've met some. I just haven't seen any obvious correlation between that and trans folk.

I guess there is also the phenomenon that the loudest and most in-your-face types are the ones people notice. Meanwhile, for every one of those, there may have been 20 other trans women in your midst just trying to get along with their lives and not attract (usually negative) attention, so they didn't get your attention and they didn't make an impression on you that trans women are much like every other woman out there.

I also find the OP hard to believe. A big glitter 'I'm trans hat'... wtf? Are you sure they weren't drag queens? They are a very different thing! She will have met a few trans people who did just blend and she didn't notice.

Perhaps, on the chance that this is true, not an exaggeration or whatever...

Perhaps those openly trans people are so desensitised to this sort of thing by constantly being asked about things like their genitals in front of friends and family, that they have become accustomed to different boundaries and consider talking about how their boobs look is actually quite tame!

This is for everyone, not just the OP.  I included a link to a Janet Mock video at the bottom of this. It's very short, and please take the time to watch it.

I'm in two therapy groups and a social group in the SF bay area. There's one girl and one guy I know who do mildly inappropriate things, and they're advised in group settings to change their ways.  And me, I just dressed weird for a while.  But there are "pretenders" out there who "pose" as trans for sexual reasons, and they strangely think they understand trans life or individuals.   And these "posers" do nothing more than damage our ability to attain the rights we desire, the protections under law that we deserve, and interfere with the education of those that are open to trans issues.

Most people have probably talked to dozens of pre and post op transwomen and never knew it. We aren't supposed to be noticed, we usually have no reason to speak about ourselves, and we honestly don't want to discuss the subject.  Like almost everyone else, I've become quite feminine in transition, and now look very much like my mother in her late 60's.  And although I'm personally out, open, and proud, it's only when I'm dealing with people who have a reason to know.  I don't hide it, yet I don't advertise it, and I don't wear a sign because it's nobody's business.  I even took the flag off my jeep since pride doesn't mean I have to draw attention.  It only means I'm not hiding the fact that I'm a woman.

There is one more thing.  It concerns "Passing" which is the subject of the Janet Mock video I've linked.  Please, WE ARE NOT PASSING, we are women.  We've always been women, and always will be.  It's just taken each of us some time to get to a point where we faced our fears, understood our lives, brushed aside obstacles that stood in our way, then became truly complete in our being.

I used to get terribly upset about comments from a girl here on Susan's who was adamantly opposed to the use of the "P" word (as she put it).  I now understand her point, and I wish I could tell Katie how sorry I am to have discounted her advice. 

Katherine

http://www.upworthy.com/if-youve-ever-looked-at-a-person-who-is-trans-and-thought-wow-i-can-barely-tell-watch-this?g=3

Okay...well the pendulum swings both ways...I am an intersex female, meaning I am genetically female but pheontypically male, I have a weird, uh, thing. I posted an ad on the WFW section explaining my situtation, staiing I do not want sex, but would consider it but am looking for a friend first. This person conteacted me and wanted me to be in a Poly Girl rlationship with her husband (she has a 4 year old too) and she did nto read my ad. After finally cyber stlaking me and reading the post she said and I quote: But no pussy.  Not even a dry cave to ->-bleeped-<-. So, yeah, I guess all women are delcate little creatures who never do anything wrong. I feel violated and can't stop crying. I am not even technically trans. So how do you explain this? But, I do understand what you are saying and sometimes the fascination with boobs gets to me on these boards. But not everyone is like that.

To play devils advocate, I really can understand women feeling a little uncomfortable with locker room situation to a degree.  Not because those of us that are transexual are getting off on it,  but because I really could see some men dressing up and claiming to be trans for voyeristic/fetishistic purposes.  Honestly I wouldn't be shocked about the stories about erections in the bathroom even if that is rare.  That's why I personally feel that those who aren't transexuals well into their transition and/or full time with female id should avoid those scenarios to prevent any bad vibes, whether there is a reason to have it or not.  That's just my opinion and don't intend to upset anyone as idont judge. I know there is a lot of scare mongering and it gets thrown on all of us as a group, but I do feel the distinction between fulltime transexuals and the broader transgender community makes sense in this case in order to maintain a safe space for all women..  And by the way, I personally will not use a female bathroom myself until I'm full time, so I'm not casting judgment on anyone else here.  Its just how i feel.  In any case, I don't think we should totally exclude the possibility that these concerns have some reason behind them even if it can sound sensationalistic. Sorry if that's too controversial, I was debating on whether or not to post this.  Delete it if it is.

I think there are sexual fetishists in the trans* community. Sorry, I don't see why that's wrong to say. Every community has some of those types, and the trans* community has a loot, despite denying it has any.

At what point do we end the PC bandwagon? I say when you have people violating womens spaces and making a mockery of the experiences of trans* people who have struggled with dysphoria and are just looking to be comfortable in their own skin, the sacrifice of political correctness is that you're invalidating...frankly more genuine experiences.

I'm sorry, this cultish mentality, its not something I want to be apart of. Support and affirmation is good, but sometimes this community takes it a weird level of "trannies can do no wrong". And this post I'm going to stand by cuz I said nothing wrong.

I should add I've had experiences not unlike the OPs leaving me...disillusioned.

I'll have to say I kind of question what the OP has seemed to encounterd. I worked in the heart of the lgbt community in Chicago for a long time. experience people living their day to day lives .  Not once had I encountered any thing like this. I had to wait for a bus in the early hours on a street just about owned by trans prostitutes again over a period of many years never was approached in a distasteful way by an mtf. I use to have an mtf that I bumped into quite often on the street thought I was cute but never made any thing other then polite conversation. I think if the OP wants to know what the trans community is  about just go to the community center and hang out and talk or just watch.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on February 18, 2014, 12:28:58 AM
You are just finding the bad apples somehow. Most of us want to quietly blend in and just live. I have met some of the girls you talk about and rest assured, this is not how the biggest majority of us act at all. If you read the postings here we do not want to attract attention like this as it makes us a BIG target for all kinds of abuse and danger. Most of us just want to work, pay bills, live out lives and have a normal existence. I would be just as horrified being approached by these inappropriate types myself. It is just a case of there always being one in every bunch. Please don't put us in the same category as the one's you have met. Most of us you pass on the street every day and will never know it. Jerks will be everywhere you go anymore. I hope this helps. :)

Yeah, you said pretty much what I was gonna say.

It sounds like to me you just had the misfortune to come across some total idiots that happened to be MtF, that's all.

Quote from: jussmoi4nao on February 18, 2014, 10:49:11 AM
I think there are sexual fetishists in the trans* community. Sorry, I don't see why that's wrong to say. Every community has some of those types, and the trans* community has a loot, despite denying it has any.

At what point do we end the PC bandwagon? I say when you have people violating womens spaces and making a mockery of the experiences of trans* people who have struggled with dysphoria and are just looking to be comfortable in their own skin, the sacrifice of political correctness is that you're invalidating...frankly more genuine experiences.

I'm sorry, this cultish mentality, its not something I want to be apart of. Support and affirmation is good, but sometimes this community takes it a weird level of "trannies can do no wrong". And this post I'm going to stand by cuz I said nothing wrong.

I should add I've had experiences not unlike the OPs leaving me...disillusioned.

I think I'm going to give you rep for this.

There's bad people in every community, transgender people aren't excluded from this. OP, you probably were unlucky and met some really strange people. I'm sure not all MTFs are like this.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on February 18, 2014, 10:14:46 AM
...I posted an ad on the WFW section explaining my situtation, staiing I do not want sex, but would consider it but am looking for a friend first. This person conteacted me and wanted me to be in a Poly Girl rlationship with her husband ... After finally cyber stlaking me and reading the post she said and I quote: But no pussy.  Not even a dry cave to <not allowed>. So, yeah, I guess all women are delcate little creatures who never do anything wrong. I feel violated and can't stop crying. I am not even technically trans. So how do you explain this? But, I do understand what you are saying and sometimes the fascination with boobs gets to me on these boards. But not everyone is like that.

Sorry Joanna.  If it was my post that got you upset, I'm sorry.  WFW, TFW, TFM and other Craigslist adds attract trolls, losers, and sexually vial people.  Many women who respond to adds are actually male posers, who could care less about your feelings.  You're going to get those kind on Craigslist because it's where they hang out to find, or attract targets.  I posted once on Craigslist eight or ten years ago, and it was such a disturbing event I canceled an email account, and changed all my passwords.

Protect yourself Joanna.  And take care.

Quote from: learningtolive on February 18, 2014, 10:37:41 AM
... I personally will not use a female bathroom myself until I'm full time, so I'm not casting judgment on anyone else here.  Its just how i feel.  ...

I was using the women's room when full time here in Michigan last summer, but hadn't yet gone to court for my name and gender change in California.   I stopped when I found out that under Michigan law I could be labeled as a sex criminal for doing so.  And instead I'd actually jump into my truck and drove to a location where there was a gender neutral restroom.  It was a pain in the ass, so to speak, but I'd rather do that than have legal problems.  Having that Name and Gender change in writing is liberating, and I no longer have to worry about the restroom thing.  But along with my drivers license I carry a copy of my California Superior Court Decree with my new birth certificate, and I'll so until SRS next winter.

I'm not believing a word of this.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on February 18, 2014, 11:46:51 AM
I'm not believing a word of this.

And 'tis possible. maybe :)

I know I will take some heat for saying this but from I have noticed (online at least). A lot of what your talking about. It seems to come from older people that are like cross dressers or in that category (no offense to that group of people). I also notice those kind of people have... Shall we say a different mindset. They don't tend to think like a average woman. I mean if they did they would know that type of invasive talk was inappropriate. I'm going to shut up now. Pm me if you want to talk more about this. I'm making sure to censor myself 

Quote from: jussmoi4nao on February 18, 2014, 10:49:11 AM
I'm sorry, this cultish mentality, its not something I want to be apart of. Support and affirmation is good, but sometimes this community takes it a weird level of "trannies can do no wrong". And this post I'm going to stand by cuz I said nothing wrong.

I agree with you.

Just because someone is trans doesn't automatically mean they are innocent, pure & have a heart of gold. The trans community is no different from any other social grouping. You have people that are cool and just want to live their lives and not bother anyone. Then you have some people that are truly freaks and have some screwed up intentions.

It comes down to the individual and not the group they happen to belong to.

Hi,  the truth be known, is that individuals in the transgender population vary in behavior and presentation like members as do the members of any other population group.    Within every population of people there diverse ideas of what is acceptable presentation and behaviour and what is not.    Within a society each individual shares space with individuals who are different from us and may even make us feel uncomfortable.    People whose gender identity is female share space with every other individual whose gender identity is female.   And people whose gender identity is male share spaces with all other individuals whose gender identity is male.   Our physical bodies will have a variety of differences.   Not all people whose gender identity is female are going to have physical characteristics such that they will pass as cis females, some of us will always pass only as transgender females with many physical characteristics of males.   

However, this does not mean that there are not codes of decency for every individual for every individual.    Each of us has the right to privacy and our shared facilities should be structured as to allow each individual to keep their private parts private.    Female restrooms are mostly structured for this,  while male restrooms for the most part are not.   Except for the one seaters in every female restroom I have been in there is no reason for anyone to witness an other individual's genitals unless they were peeping through the cracks, and even then my clothing keeps my private parts private.   Gym locker rooms are another matter because many of them have public shower and dressing rooms, at least male locker rooms do.   If this makes people uncomfortable then these rooms need to be changed or adapted so that individuals who want more privacy have it. 

As far as being sexually aroused in public places including dressing rooms and showers, this is not socially accepted for anybody, male or female no matter what their genitalia is.   

Addressing inappropriate conversations in public,  just needs to be handled by each individual.   When anyone gets too personal with someone that they just meant or barely know it creates problems.   This includes conversations about religion, politics, gender identity, sexual matters.   We just have to politely let the other person know that we don't feel comfortable discussing the matter with strangers and each of needs to be polite and drop the matter.

The individual who advertized that she was transgender in glitter has the right to do that, and each of us who is uncomfortable with it just has to deal with it.   Personally, I hate to see young men with their pants down around their knees, and even though I spent thirty years as an elementary school teacher whose job it was to be concerned as to rather my students dressed appropriately to the school dress code, just have to ignore it.   I live in a ocean beach area where individuals go into restaurants in all kinds of swim suits and without shoes, if the management doesn't do anything,  I just have to deal.   I try and cross the street and someone driving a car six blocks away speeds up, and I just make it across the lane without getting hit.   People in the connected townhouse next to me turn up the bass on their stereo system and vibrate all four connected town houses, and what can I do, nothing, just deal.    Neighbors have loud parties and barbeques which aggravate my sinuses and give me headaches, and what can I do, nothing, just deal with it.   There are going to be transgenders whose style makes us uncomfortable,  but just like much else in life,  we just have to ignore it.    I also completely understand that,  I also have behaviors and mannerisms that others have to ignore and deal with because  my actions make others uncomfortable and irritate them.   

Now I will state it plainly, that at 67 years old, I am a transgender grandma, who is never going to pass every minute as a cis female.   I am also a female who has fathered six children,  the oldest who is in her forties.   I have thirty years of elementary students and old friends who knew me when I tried to pass as male.   Members of my family,  my children's friends who were also my students are my friends on Facebook.   I am out to them all on Facebook.   My current cis partner accepts me as a male who presents as a female,  and not as the woman, that I am.    I have to live with that.   I  am really a plain Jane.   I am called ma'am one second, and sir the next.   I am just as much a woman as any other woman.   This is me.    I will probably make some of the transgender women who wish to pass totally as cis women uncomfortable because I will never fit into two gender only paradigm.   Well get over it, many of us transgender women are not going to fit the mold, simply because we can't, and some of us because we won't, and we shouldn't have too.  But, we are still women.    Eleanor Roosevelt did not fit the mold,  neither did Calamity Jane.   

I don't mean any disrespect to the person who started this forum,  the individuals she meant,  made her uncomfortable, which she had a right to feel.   When this happens to each of us we have to do what we need to do to extract ourselves from the situation.   But this does not mean that we have the right to insist that laws be passed to take away the individual rights of other people or structure our public facilities in away to exclude other people.   The fact is that facilities that are available to women should be available to all women without exception, this includes transgender women.   The same goes for men.   But these facilities must be structured in such away as to provide each individual who desires it areas where they have the individual privacy they need.   Within these facilities each individual owes it to themselves and others to behave modestly and keep the private parts of their bodies as private as possible.  Mixing of adults and children has always been a problem and so is having areas where children are unsupervised.   I do not wish to be nude in the presence of children in any situation.   While teaching in some areas adults and students used the same restrooms at the same time.  While other schools had policies against this, and these provided staff only restrooms which in some cases were male/female restrooms, one seaters.   What this tells me is that the current structure of our restrooms and dressing rooms in gyms and pool areas are not structured to meet the current needs of our population today.   Many of these locker rooms have too many areas which allow public nudity only.    My only personal solution would be for me to never be publically nude in these areas.   I would shower in my swim suit and put on my sun dress if there were no private showers and shower again at home.   In the gym,  I would find a private area to change to my workout clothes and afterward wear my sweat suit home if their were no private shower and dressing areas.    But this is just me.

I must also add that my perspective is colored by the area of the country I grew up in, that is the Dakotas.    In most cases people in this area have been socialized to avoid public confrontations, unless they are intoxicated.    Thus if service in a public business does not meet our standards,  we say little to the business,  complain about the poor service to our friends and relatives, and never go back unless we absolutely have to.    In many small towns some public business and services are the only game in town.   Eventually the complaints get around to the business concerned, and they make changes, or not.   

This generally means that polite transgender people from the Dakotas, unless they are intoxicated,  would use the dressing facilities of their gender in such away as to not call attention to themselves or create a hassle.   Those of us that are modest would keep our privates private,  while those who are not would follow the customs of the facility.   Of course, as in all areas of the country Dakota people do have their disrespectful cads who make asses of themselves.   We just write them off.

Where I live now in Florida,  if somebody ticks somebody off, they just shoot them.   Then they tell the police the person they shot made them fear for their life,  so that they had no other recourse, but to shoot them.   The shooting is very difficult to get a conviction on, or ruled justifiable.    This excuse is used by both the police and private individuals.  So when I use the lady's room, I pick one that isn't busy,  or a one seater.   I go in quietly, talk to no one, do my business, hide in the stall if I feel their could be a problem with someone else in the restroom,  wash up and leave quickly, drawing as little attention to myself as humanly possible.

Honestly most of the OPs post sounds more like some fetish cross dressers with boundary issues or people who watched Ru Paul's drag race and wanted to be an in your face drag queen like on that show.

Most people just want to blend in, but there are highly sexualized and inappropriate people from all genders and orientations. I admit I am also one to get easily offended and grossed out by overt sexual displays towards me from just about anyone. I guess it is just something I can't wrap my mind around much,and I can understand the stress and frustration that can come from being subjected to people who are so inappropriate.

The sad thing is from guy masterbaiting on the subway, to women who touch other women without regard to the fact that a woman can indeed sexually harass another woman; there are all kids of messed up people out there, I would think though that the mtf community is a statistically insignificant  amount of the bad apples.

I would also say that on HRT I couldn't even imagine being overtly sexual, my libido was always low but on HRT I really have to want to think sexual thoughts to get in a frisky mood and even then it won't last without the atmosphere being right.

I also think that given the fact that there are possibly maybe 800,000 transgenders both mtf and ftm in the US and I believe the population of the US is well over 300000000 that to encounter this frequency  of trouble on a day to day occurrence I would far more worry being hit by a stray asteroid.

I think people should cool it with saying she's lying. Victims of sexual assault and harrassment are often told their experiences are lies, which causes feelings of shame, frustration, and invalidation. I'm a little shocked some of you think its cool to do that because the people who harrassed her identified as trans.

I think the OP was brave to not only come forward with this but also seek to understand the trans perspective...and a lot of you aren't doing the community any justice by accusing her of lying. I'm sorry but, not cool.

I'm going to stop reading this thread cuz it's starting to piss me off..

OMG so sad.. sorry that has happened to you but I assure you ...most are wonderful caring people. Many are professionals.. Dr.'s Lawyers, Pilots.. and I am part of that group.. Others are just humans trying to make their way on this wonderful planet we all live on.  I never took advantage of a woman as a man and as a transitioning M2F certainly harmless.
Carrie

I'm with jussmoi4nao...I'm a bit disappointed and disheartened at the replies to this thread calling her a liar. She came here asking an honest question in a non-offensive manner and is being victim blamed for it?
Is it so hard to believe that there are transgender people like those she described? I know personally, of quite a few that would act exactly the way the transgender folks in the OP did, but I have no association with them.

There are baddies in every community, we all need to accept that. And some of us here need to reel back the trigger happy generalizations of our pristine community, because it isn't like that at all.

Trans person space invaded by cis person *omg cis people are the worst!!!*
Cis person space invaded by trans person *i don't believe that for a sec!!!!*

Ridiculous and shameful on the part of some of you in this thread.

You believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want. Half a century on the planet has taught me when to put on the hip boots.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on February 18, 2014, 12:53:36 PM
You believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want. Half a century on the planet has taught me when to put on the hip boots.

Hugs, Devlyn

Maybe some of us have been so lucky as to never have been the victim of an "unbelievable circumstance". Or to not have encountered someone of this manner. Or some of us have put on intentional blinders and painted a perfect picture of this community.

A half century of living should be enough for anyone to know this stuff happens.

Hey all,

Let's not turn against one another.  There are different sorts in ever community and things happen, that doesn't mean we should take it personal or get hurt by the op's story or the reactions to it..  I'm sorry if any of my prior comments hurt or offended anyone, I just have noticed there are some fetishists and sexually motivated members in the trans community and it can make me uncomfortable at times.  That doesn't make anything wrong with them for being that way as long as they are actingnappropriately.  At the same time, I do hate when people lump me as a transexual into that category as it offends me, especially when i think it's a minority of the transexual community that are like that, though I try to respect faab people by understanding and trying to respect their safety concerns.  I would just hope people get to see there are non fetishistic transexuals and don't lump us all into a category we don't fit in.  Again, no disrespect intended to anyone who does fit into that group. I really don't want to hurt anyone.

Quote from: jussmoi4nao on February 18, 2014, 12:29:07 PM
I think people should cool it with saying she's lying. Victims of sexual assault and harrassment are often told their experiences are lies, which causes feelings of shame, frustration, and invalidation. I'm a little shocked some of you think its cool to do that because the people who harrassed her identified as trans.

I think the OP was brave to not only come forward with this but also seek to understand the trans perspective...and a lot of you aren't doing the community any justice by accusing her of lying. I'm sorry but, not cool.

I'm going to stop reading this thread cuz it's starting to piss me off..

I agree though I think most of us here acknowledge these things happen and aren't accusing anyone of lying.  I've seen enough diversity in the community to believe these things happen. Sexual harassment in any form is never cool no matter where it comes from.

Quote from: Bijou on February 18, 2014, 12:59:21 PM
Maybe some of us have been so lucky as to never have been the victim of an "unbelievable circumstance". Or to not have encountered someone of this manner. Or some of us have put on intentional blinders and painted a perfect picture of this community.

A half century of living should be enough for anyone to know this stuff happens.

I know full well about "unbelievale circumstance"

I'll never forget the day I was bitten by a snake, eaten by a bear, and then the bear was struck by lightning. /snark

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on February 18, 2014, 01:06:42 PM
I know full well about "unbelievale circumstance"

I'll never forget the day I was bitten by a snake, eaten by a bear, and then the bear was struck by lightning. /snark

But you don't seem to get the concept of refuting someone's claims or questions regarding feeling violated against by one of your own community, for the sole fact that they're in your community? As a white person, do you also not believe racism exists? Because they're the exact same concepts and to comprehend one is to comprehend the other.

No, hon, I read a post that I don't believe. You read a post that you do believe. It's no deeper than that. Perhaps I should have held my tongue, but today I didn't.

Hugs, Devlyn

To quote Rebeus Hagrid: 'you get weirdos in every group'.

Quote from: FA on February 18, 2014, 01:22:27 PM
To quote Rebeus Hagrid: 'you get weirdos in every group'.

Exactly, and just because some nasty people pleasure themselves in public on the subway, doesn't mean everyone who rides the subway is one of those creeps. (And related, the NY Subway nearly gave me PTSD, I will always be thankful for how clean and composed the DC Metro is in comparison). Though, I do know a few people who insist that everyone taking public transit are homeless weirdos, when the bulk of people are people who wear suits or business casual and work in offices. It is like they don't even notice that 99% of the riders are pretty "normal" if there even is such a thing.

Hello again, OP here...

First, I want to thank all of the posters who have responded kindly. I knew when I came here this probably wasn't the general trans experience, but it's like.... the only thing I can compare it to is when you are out and about in public and men are commenting on your attributes over and over, and mentally you start to think (though not logically) that all men are creeps. That was the point I was at after yesterday's incident with regards to the trans community. While logically aware that it probably isn't true of the whole, my public encounters have all been negative.

For those responding in disbelief, it is your right. Thankfully, there were a lot more helpful responses and i do feel like I've come to a better understanding of the diversity of the trans community. Also helpful to note, that other than the one I'd met only online, the others were all over 40 men seemingly in the beginning of transition. I did not mean to offend with the word "passing". By it I only meant that the trans status was obvious do to the phenotypical male body stature and face shape.

And as for some of the out there things, I happen to live in a highly left wing leaning college community with lots of strange people, such as the guy who rides around in a speedo and a cape for example. It seems everyone here is out to shock and push an agenda of some sort. I chalk the recent events up to that type of community mindset.

Anyways, thank you to all with the helpful answers. And no worries, I know how message boards work, and thus not going to take offense to the naysayers.

oh, and a clarification as i don't necessarily know the terms to a pre-op bottom mtf (thinking based on one reply that may mean something different than I thought). By that I meant someone who had breast augmentation but still had their male genitalia intact.

Quote from: stephaniec on February 18, 2014, 12:19:59 PM
I also think that given the fact that there are possibly maybe 800,000 transgenders both mtf and ftm in the US and I believe the population of the US is well over 300000000 that to encounter this frequency  of trouble on a day to day occurrence I would far more worry being hit by a stray asteroid.

yea i some one may be talking ->-bleeped-<-, god im a transeaxul and i have only ever met one other transexual in my everyday life, apart from at pride and sparkle etc

QuoteI also think that given the fact that there are possibly maybe 800,000 transgenders both mtf and ftm in the US and I believe the population of the US is well over 300000000 that to encounter this frequency  of trouble on a day to day occurrence I would far more worry being hit by a stray asteroid.

I am newly out to the trans* community and I am really saddened by what happened to this poor woman with those that are reputed to be part of our community. It saddens me for her having to experience this and for us to bare the responsibility for it because we are such a small minority family inside a minority community. Anything one of us does reflects poorly on the rest of us. I know we can dismiss these acts as a few fringe elements, but this woman experiences them not understanding our community, and rightly questions us for it. I don't blame her one bit. This is the point of reference she has been exposed to. I grew up not having anyone to latch onto as role models, I don't even want to mention how we were perceived, so when people like Janet Mock come along I am elated because now we have someone that represents us to the mainstream the way we truly are.

I mean, the act one bad apple diminishes us all. We win over cisgender people through everyday normal acts of kindness, love, and compassion, until we can be accepted in mainstream.   

Having re-read the OP's erm, OP, I see (and correct me if I am wrong):

- one mtf online who hit on her
   Honestly - this is not at all out of the ordinary. considering the immense diversity of people online and the lack of restraint that is generally shown, I would guess that this isn't shocking at all to anyone. Of the conversations I have seen online, that is very very tame lol. I am surprised that would shock anyone, especially as the OP then says "I know how message boards work, and thus not going to take offense'.

- one 'out' mtf who asked how her boobs look and another who said men don't know how to satisfy women.
    Now in my life I have met many, many people who are too forward. She was one..... and?  I am a little shocked that this would mean anything to you at all, especially for someone who lives "in a highly left wing leaning college community with lots of strange people".  If it had not been a trans person, you would have just thought, "well she was a bit forward" and then paid it no more thought. I am not accusing you of being a bigot, but I can definitely see how your move from "I saw a trans person who was forward" to "I feel violated" and "are all trans people like that" would put you in line for people calling you that.

The trans person you met will likely not have got to socialise with groups of girls as one of them growing up, may have had little idea of how to be 'one of the girls' and be taking their best guess. I am thinking sex in the city style. Just a guess. It doesn't really matter.

They were too forward, and? That's just life. If I met a trans person and they were rude, I wouldn't assume all the trans people in the world were rude. We are not (especially me - I am lovely!  :) )

I would argue that EVERY population of people has its share of people who behave in a creepy, inappropriate manner. I'm wondering if the incidents that the OP is referring to are just more memorable to her because she encounters fewer people perceived to me MTF than she does people perceived to be Cis.

How many rude or inappropriate comments and behaviors do you run a cross in Cis people in a day? I'm willing to bet is is far more than what sticks in your mind, so common in fact that it no longer even registers a second thought.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on February 18, 2014, 01:18:04 PM
No, hon, I read a post that I don't believe. You read a post that you do believe. It's no deeper than that. Perhaps I should have held my tongue, but today I didn't.

Devlyn has inspired me. I'm just going to be completely honest. I mostly held my tongue though I'm sure some of my thoughts came across in whatever of my tone managed to be transmitted by plain text. You probably guessed from my post that I'm skeptical of OPs claims. I'm just being honest. It just sounds like every cartoonish stereotype of a trans woman that a conservative person has that they use to justify twisting around the notion of oppression, i.e. that trans people are somehow violating and oppressing "normal" people. Any one of those stories would seem believable to me, but OP has been struck by lightning four times? All of it certainly may have happened just as OP says. I can't help being skeptical. All I can do is bite my tongue and I've chosen to be honest.

Quote from: locame on February 18, 2014, 01:41:35 PM
Hello again, OP here...

First, I want to thank all of the posters who have responded kindly. I knew when I came here this probably wasn't the general trans experience, but it's like.... the only thing I can compare it to is when you are out and about in public and men are commenting on your attributes over and over, and mentally you start to think (though not logically) that all men are creeps. That was the point I was at after yesterday's incident with regards to the trans community. While logically aware that it probably isn't true of the whole, my public encounters have all been negative.

For those responding in disbelief, it is your right. Thankfully, there were a lot more helpful responses and i do feel like I've come to a better understanding of the diversity of the trans community. Also helpful to note, that other than the one I'd met only online, the others were all over 40 men seemingly in the beginning of transition. I did not mean to offend with the word "passing". By it I only meant that the trans status was obvious do to the phenotypical male body stature and face shape.

And as for some of the out there things, I happen to live in a highly left wing leaning college community with lots of strange people, such as the guy who rides around in a speedo and a cape for example. It seems everyone here is out to shock and push an agenda of some sort. I chalk the recent events up to that type of community mindset.

Anyways, thank you to all with the helpful answers. And no worries, I know how message boards work, and thus not going to take offense to the naysayers.

Kia Ora L,

As you are finding out, many fit under the trans-umbrella(and some being not quite sure what category they come under)...

For example the following conditions in which people identify with are "Transsexual"   "Transgender" "Crossdresser" "Transvestite"  "Transvestic fetish" "Gender queer" the list goes on and on...And internationally with some terms being interchangeable, like transsexual and transgender or crossdresser and transvestite...

At times it can be a somewhat confused complicated mixture that (through no fault of their own) are found sheltering under this vast open umbrella...

Many who identified as transsexual or transgender, once fully transitioned (with or without genital surgery) have been known to drop the "trans" label altogether..."Different Strokes For Different Folks!"

Well at least you had the insight to find out more about this (more often than not) misunderstood diverse comm-unity...You deserve a rep for this brave move...



Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: dalebert on February 18, 2014, 09:13:03 AM
that than you considering that I'm a gay man who's been around MTFs on so many occasions I can't even count I'm 45 years old. Everyone is different, of course, and I wand I haven't had even one experience like that. on't make generalizations about MTFs based on my anecdotal experiences *ahem*, but I will say my experiences have generally been nearly the exact opposite.

Of course...since you're a cisman and most MTF are into women (only)
And the op is a ciswoman...quite a difference, isn't it?

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on February 18, 2014, 02:46:11 PM
Hey, quite a lot of folks are into cats!

Isn't that illegal?

Quote from: Akira21 ♡♡♡ on February 18, 2014, 02:14:06 PM
Having re-read the OP's erm, OP, I see (and correct me if I am wrong):

" one mtf online who hit on her "

(wasn't just hitting on me, I was generalizing. It was frequent attempts to engage me on the topic of sexualized things. Examples, talking about her clitoris aching, and other creepy things that I thought were creepy even for a female (as i didn't know the mtf status at the time). I recognized the person had other issues, and declared non-interest openly and when the topics would come up cut off the conversation.)

- one 'out' mtf who asked how her boobs look and said men don't know how to satisfy women.

(seperate people. And yes, a stranger I think was the point. an out mtf that I knew asking me that, I wouldn't have questioned. Approached in public while bumping into someone while i'm coming out of the restroom is another. The other was also a stranger (a different one) and it wasn't just the one comment about the needs of women. That was a summary. It got more explicit than that, in discussing orgasms etcetera until I picked up and left. I have met only one memorable female who was "forward" to use your terminology and described her sex toys. It is not an experience I have with other women generally. The rest that I've known in life were men who feel it's their right to comment on my sexuality, my breasts, my rear end looking good in my pants, etcetera. The only place i have encountered bold conversation like that among women is in close relationships. I know there are probably highly sexualized women out there in the world, I just haven't encountered them.

"The trans person you met will likely not have got to socialise with groups of girls as one of them growing up, may have had little idea of how to be 'one of the girls' and be taking their best guess. I am thinking sex in the city style. Just a guess. It doesn't really matter. "

This actually was my original theory. Thinking maybe there was just a lack of understanding of personal boundaries and circles when discussing body/sexual issues. I don't expect to hear or enjoy them from strangers. A non-trans example, my significant other commenting on my breasts is one thing, a stranger in public another.
In the end though, the biggest issue was having to be ok with an erection in my vicinity without my permission. The facility is investigating, but I got a speech about diversity etcetera even from the manager, after getting called an assortment of nasty things by the person and their friend in the locker room.
It exists among all groups, but I don't feel like I suddenly have to become ok with people crossing those lines. Either the girl at work or the stranger in public. I know it exists for all genders, but many of us cisfems (myself included) have a history of being victimized sexually. Yes, that makes me more sensitive to the topic no matter what the gender. And my public encounters have seemed to me as encounters with "porn women". Meaning, the hypersexualized male idea of what a woman is.

Quote from: jussmoi4nao on February 18, 2014, 10:49:11 AM
I think there are sexual fetishists in the trans* community. Sorry, I don't see why that's wrong to say. Every community has some of those types, and the trans* community has a loot, despite denying it has any.

At what point do we end the PC bandwagon? I say when you have people violating womens spaces and making a mockery of the experiences of trans* people who have struggled with dysphoria and are just looking to be comfortable in their own skin, the sacrifice of political correctness is that you're invalidating...frankly more genuine experiences.

I'm sorry, this cultish mentality, its not something I want to be apart of. Support and affirmation is good, but sometimes this community takes it a weird level of "trannies can do no wrong". And this post I'm going to stand by cuz I said nothing wrong.

I should add I've had experiences not unlike the OPs leaving me...disillusioned.

+1!

and just because I know this is a highly charged issue, to introduce some lightness to the topic.....

Check out this guy.

https://www.facebook.com/ThongCapeScooterMan

QuoteDevlyn has inspired me. I'm just going to be completely honest. I mostly held my tongue though I'm sure some of my thoughts came across in whatever of my tone managed to be transmitted by plain text

For me, I ask this...
Does it really matter whether we believe her or not ? Do we deny that these types of behaviour can and do exist ?
If they do happen, then it means we need to acknowledge and present our position on that kind of behaviour to show that it is not representative of us. At least that is what I like to think.

Gosh its hard enough being trans, let alone having to change perceptions of us.

There are guys out there trying to pass themselves off as women, but still guys. Weird creepy guys.

I received a private message, but due to whatever reason I can't respond to it (says I can't send messages). I just wanted to say a big thank you to that person if you're still reading this, for explaining what you did, as well as for your posts in response here. I'd expound further, if I could do so privately. :)

Quote from: locame on February 18, 2014, 03:12:47 PM
and just because I know this is a highly charged issue, to introduce some lightness to the topic.....

Check out this guy.

https://www.facebook.com/ThongCapeScooterMan

Seems like a happy soul, I'd like to see him try it today, here!

Quote from: locame on February 18, 2014, 03:19:09 PM
I received a private message, but due to whatever reason I can't respond to it (says I can't send messages). I just wanted to say a big thank you to that person if you're still reading this, for explaining what you did, as well as for your posts in response here. I'd expound further, if I could do so privately. :)

Read the Announcements section and the rules, all will become clear.

Hugs, Devlyn

Hello op,

I'd like to ask you a question.  In regards to the bathroom issue, what if the person hadn't been erect?  What if they avoided being completly nude while in the locker room?  What if they acted and lived just like any other woman?  Would you have an issue then? See the thing is there are a lot of us in the transexual community that see ourselves as female and desire to live as such.  The uncomfortable feelings you have about being viewed in the bathroom can be applied to us.  I'm mid transition but am coming very close to living full time as female.  As you may guess, my body has changed and I feel the same insecurity about my body that you may have.  I'd feel extremely uncomfortable in a men's changing room because I wouldn't fit there and I'd feel unsafe.  Going into a women's room will be the only area that I'd personally feel safe and comfortable once I fully transition. It's not about leering at female bodies, I'm not into women anyway, it's about the practicality that sometimes we have to use a restroom.  How would you feel about someone like me?  This is what most transexuals feel, so keep in mind these are the majority of the people you are likely to deal with in women's spaces.  Some of us are non-op, pre-op and post-op, and we come from all ages,  but we all identify as women and strive to live as such.  That's all.  So please, don't let that fetishistic elements cloud your mind on what all of us are.  Many of us aren't like that.  Another thing I'd recommend is to learn about the transgender community's many different sub categories.  It may help you better understand each individual and what their particular situation is. 

Quote from: Dahlia on February 18, 2014, 02:44:49 PM
Of course...since you're a cisman and most MTF are into women (only)
And the op is a ciswoman...quite a difference, isn't it?

I think it's not really accurate to say that most MTF's are into women.  I've noticed that there tends to be an age gap when it comes to sexuality.  Just from what I've observed, most of us under the age of 30 seem to be straight or bi and those over 30 tend to be either bi or lesbian.  Of course it differs for everyone and it's impossible to generalize, but I have noticed a trend for the most part.  And I should note there is nothing wrong with being a lesbian. I can't help but sympathize with the gay community. I used to struggle with my sexual identity as a straight women because I was seen (and still am by most) as a gay man which came with a lot of consequences.  Believe me, gay men are hated and I'll never forget the horrible treatment I've received because of it.  So, I hate hearing judgement about people because of their sexuality when it is only a tiny portion of who they are. Most transexual lesbians wouldn't act inappropriately like that and I've noticed some discrimnate trans lesbians by assuming they are all fetishists.  Keep in mind that many people will say the same about you for liking men.  Many of us are just seen as gay men in denial and that makes things very difficult to us despite the fact that it's false. So, let's not judge who someone is because of their orientation. Sexual orientation is irrelevant for the most part.  What matters is how one carries themselves and treats others.  I have noticed there are some that see this as a sexual thrill, but I can't believe that's what all the lesbians in our community are like, in fact, I'd like to say it's in the minority, at least when it comes to transexuals. 

Quote from: ana on February 18, 2014, 02:04:46 PM
I am newly out to the trans* community and I am really saddened by what happened to this poor woman with those that are reputed to be part of our community. It saddens me for her having to experience this and for us to bare the responsibility for it because we are such a small minority family inside a minority community. Anything one of us does reflects poorly on the rest of us. I know we can dismiss these acts as a few fringe elements, but this woman experiences them not understanding our community, and rightly questions us for it. I don't blame her one bit. This is the point of reference she has been exposed to. I grew up not having anyone to latch onto as role models, I don't even want to mention how we were perceived, so when people like Janet Mock come along I am elated because now we have someone that represents us to the mainstream the way we truly are.

I mean, the act one bad apple diminishes us all. We win over cisgender people through everyday normal acts of kindness, love, and compassion, until we can be accepted in mainstream.

I'm sorry the fact the someone came to a trans site for answers and opinion and is getting exactly a whole lot of opinions. First off society in general has a hell of a lot of people doing crazy things on an every day basis. I for one got my head bashed in on the train by a member of a certain ethnic group. I didn't proceed to go on line to a group representative of that individuals ethnic group and start asking why my head was bashed in. Things happen in society all the time people die for no other reason than to refuse to give some one a quarter.  I'm sorry for what happen ,but why ask totally unrelated to the situation how could this possibly be. There are a  lot of messed up individuals in this society of every ethnic , size ,educational ,etc. any possible kind of human does stupid things every day on this planet. These are just opinions from a group of people totally uninvolved with what happened Every one has a right to express themselves because it's exactly what was asked for. People get on the internet every day and say things and it's everyone's right to take it with a grain of salt because there is no court of law that I'm aware of that excepts as a deposition from any over the internet source that is with out any legal verification. sorry this is totally my opinion. And I reserve the right to question authenticity without being publicly dehumanize for my right to do so 

So beautifully put....Lovely words

:)

Quote
I'd like to ask you a question.  In regards to the bathroom issue, what if the person hadn't been erect?  What if they avoided being completly nude while in the locker room?  What if they acted and lived just like any other woman?  Would you have an issue then? See the thing is there are a lot of us in the transexual community that see ourselves as female and desire to live as such.  The uncomfortable feelings you have about being viewed in the bathroom can be applied to us.  I'm mid transition but am coming very close to living full time as female.  As you may guess, my body has changed and I feel the same insecurity about my body that you may have.  I'd feel extremely uncomfortable in a men's changing room because I wouldn't fit there and I'd feel unsafe.  Going into a women's room will be the only area that I'd personally feel safe and comfortable once I fully transition. It's not about leering at female bodies, I'm not into women anyway, it's about the practicality that sometimes we have to use a restroom.  How would you feel about someone like me?  This is what most transexuals feel, so keep in mind these are the majority of the people you are likely to deal with in women's spaces.  Some of us are non-op, pre-op and post-op, and we come from all ages,  but we all identify as women and strive to live as such.  That's all.  So please, don't let that fetishistic elements cloud your mind on what all of us are.  Many of us aren't like that.  Another thing I'd recommend is to learn about the transgender community's many different sub categories.  It may help you better understand each individual and what their particular situation is. 


Quote from: Dahlia on Today at 03:44:49 pm

Of course...since you're a cisman and most MTF are into women (only)
And the op is a ciswoman...quite a difference, isn't it?




I think it's not really accurate to say that most MTF's are into women.  I've noticed that there tends to be an age gap when it comes to sexuality.  Just from what I've observed, most of us under the age of 30 seem to be straight or bi and those over 30 tend to be either bi or lesbian.  Of course it differs for everyone and it's impossible to generalize, but I have noticed a trend for the most part.  And I should note there is nothing wrong with being a lesbian. I can't help but sympathize with the gay community. I used to struggle with my sexual identity as a straight women because I was seen (and still am by most) as a gay man which came with a lot of consequences.  Believe me, gay men are hated and I'll never forget the horrible treatment I've received because of it.  So, I hate hearing judgement about people because of their sexuality when it is only a tiny portion of who they are. Most transexual lesbians wouldn't act inappropriately like that and I've noticed some discrimnate trans lesbians by assuming they are all fetishists.  Keep in mind that many people will say the same about you for liking men.  Many of us are just seen as gay men in denial and that makes things very difficult to us despite the fact that it's false. So, let's not judge who someone is because of their orientation. Sexual orientation is irrelevant for the most part.  What matters is how one carries themselves and treats others.  I have noticed there are some that see this as a sexual thrill, but I can't believe that's what all the lesbians in our community are like, in fact, I'd like to say it's in the minority, at least when it comes to transexuals. 

Quote from: learningtolive on February 18, 2014, 03:38:32 PM
Hello op,

I'd like to ask you a question.  In regards to the bathroom issue, what if the person hadn't been erect?  What if they avoided being completly nude while in the locker room?  What if they acted and lived just like any other woman?  Would you have an issue then? See the thing is there are a lot of us in the transexual community that see ourselves as female and desire to live as such.  The uncomfortable feelings you have about being viewed in the bathroom can be applied to us.  I'm mid transition but am coming very close to living full time as female.  As you may guess, my body has changed and I feel the same insecurity about my body that you may have.  I'd feel extremely uncomfortable in a men's changing room because I wouldn't fit there and I'd feel unsafe.  Going into a women's room will be the only area that I'd personally feel safe and comfortable once I fully transition. It's not about leering at female bodies, I'm not into women anyway, it's about the practicality that sometimes we have to use a restroom.  How would you feel about someone like me?  This is what most transexuals feel, so keep in mind these are the majority of the people you are likely to deal with in women's spaces.  Some of us are non-op, pre-op and post-op, and we come from all ages,  but we all identify as women and strive to live as such.  That's all.  So please, don't let that fetishistic elements cloud your mind on what all of us are.  Many of us aren't like that.  Another thing I'd recommend is to learn about the transgender community's many different sub categories.  It may help you better understand each individual and what their particular situation is. 
</quote>

Hi learningtolive,

Let me try to answer this first part of the question. Before this incident I was unsure on how i felt about the restroom/locker room issue. On one hand, I have compassion for mtf's who would feel the same way in a men's locker room, as I do in a women's locker room with them. I have had the same thoughts regarding gays in the military due to the public nudity involved. And on a non-publicized matter, on lesbians in those areas as well. The idea of an already vulnerable time having the ability to be turned into a potentially sexualized environment. With a lesbian, unless they point it out, I don't know that they are sexually interested in women and the majority of women are not. With an mtf as with any other person with a penis the majority are interested in women.

Following this incident, if i were asked to vote on the issue, I would have to vote against inclusive restrooms, not because all trans persons are like that, but because it opens up the door to people who are. Like, when I leave my apartment I lock the door, not because the majority of people are going to break in, but because the fringe person might. Ultimately, I believe that all people should be safe from non-consensual sexualized situations of all forms.

QuoteI'm sorry the fact the someone came to a trans site for answers and opinion and is getting exactly a whole lot of opinions. First off society in general has a hell of a lot of people doing crazy things on an every day basis. I for one got my head bashed in on the train by a member of a certain ethnic group. I didn't proceed to go on line to a group representative of that individuals ethnic group and start asking why my head was bashed in. Things happen in society all the time people die for no other reason than to refuse to give some one a quarter.  I'm sorry for what happen ,but why ask totally unrelated to the situation how could this possibly be. There are a  lot of messed up individuals in this society of every ethnic , size ,educational ,etc. any possible kind of human does stupid things every day on this planet. These are just opinions from a group of people totally uninvolved with what happened Every one has a right to express themselves because it's exactly what was asked for. People get on the internet every day and say things and it's everyone's right to take it with a grain of salt because there is no court of law that I'm aware of that excepts as a deposition from any over the internet source that is with out any legal verification. sorry this is totally my opinion. And I reserve the right to question authenticity without being publicly dehumanize for my right to do so 

First off Stephanie, I am terribly sorry about that happened to you. Your words about what happened to you make me shiver. I never meant to solicit ire, as I am not very confrontational by nature, but it seems I might have hit a nerve. So for that please forgive me.

Quote from: sad panda on February 18, 2014, 01:34:06 AM
I am MAAB. but living as a girl and this has been my experience too at every turn.. :/  lots of sexual harrassment and inapropriateness going on inside the community too.. (that includes on this site in PMs or often just overtly) makes me feel uncomfortable being here and not want to be associated with trans people. I hate that I have to feel that way but I am not OK with this stuff at all. I think a lot of MAAB people just don't understand what is appropriate. Idk.. it's the elephant in the room and I'm just sick of ignoring it.

Your avatar and quote are an example of the problem. :/ maybe you have to think of women as human beings to understand any of this.

You should have reported the problem.  If you don't report the problem and the predators, the problem will continue.

Quote from: sad panda on February 18, 2014, 01:55:22 AM
I remember I posted a pic of my cat once and a member (30 yrs older than me?)sent me an unsolicited message with a pic of them in lingerie that happened to have their cat in it. they were like, I can't post this in public heheh. So gross....

Same with this.  I won't sugar-coat it.  It takes members reporting the problems.  I remember bouncing a ->-bleeped-<- who was harassing Donna Troy.  It took her mentioning the problem before an action could be taken.  By not reporting incidents, you make the forum less safe for everybody.

All anyone can say is that it sounds like you met some real oddballs who have a lack of respect. I haven't met many other transsexuals, but that claim seems true.

I am sorry about your experiences. But like others have said there are many weird people around. I have seen my share of creepers , both male and female. This was when I was just a average looking male. Locker rooms might be a magnet for the rare person into just into sexual harassment. But from my experience the males are more likely to be in the creeper category. And that way the women get a bigger share of that.

I do not want to cause any issues for anyone. Just imagine if you were in the toilet and someone just randomly pointed out there is a male in here.  That would be extremely awkward or much worse. Avoidance of possible conflicts is my thing. No point in making life more difficult. So no public bathrooms or locker rooms. That is one reason why people keep secrets , ignore gid issues and generally are really ashamed. Remember most gay lesbian cis or not go trough locker rooms without any issue. There must have been so many gays present when I went trough male locker rooms without anything ever happening.

Quote from: locame on February 18, 2014, 04:13:28 PM

Quote from: learningtolive on February 18, 2014, 03:38:32 PM
Hello op,

I'd like to ask you a question.  In regards to the bathroom issue, what if the person hadn't been erect?  What if they avoided being completly nude while in the locker room?  What if they acted and lived just like any other woman?  Would you have an issue then? See the thing is there are a lot of us in the transexual community that see ourselves as female and desire to live as such.  The uncomfortable feelings you have about being viewed in the bathroom can be applied to us.  I'm mid transition but am coming very close to living full time as female.  As you may guess, my body has changed and I feel the same insecurity about my body that you may have.  I'd feel extremely uncomfortable in a men's changing room because I wouldn't fit there and I'd feel unsafe.  Going into a women's room will be the only area that I'd personally feel safe and comfortable once I fully transition. It's not about leering at female bodies, I'm not into women anyway, it's about the practicality that sometimes we have to use a restroom.  How would you feel about someone like me?  This is what most transexuals feel, so keep in mind these are the majority of the people you are likely to deal with in women's spaces.  Some of us are non-op, pre-op and post-op, and we come from all ages,  but we all identify as women and strive to live as such.  That's all.  So please, don't let that fetishistic elements cloud your mind on what all of us are.  Many of us aren't like that.  Another thing I'd recommend is to learn about the transgender community's many different sub categories.  It may help you better understand each individual and what their particular situation is. 
</quote>

Hi learningtolive,

Let me try to answer this first part of the question. Before this incident I was unsure on how i felt about the restroom/locker room issue. On one hand, I have compassion for mtf's who would feel the same way in a men's locker room, as I do in a women's locker room with them. I have had the same thoughts regarding gays in the military due to the public nudity involved. And on a non-publicized matter, on lesbians in those areas as well. The idea of an already vulnerable time having the ability to be turned into a potentially sexualized environment. With a lesbian, unless they point it out, I don't know that they are sexually interested in women and the majority of women are not. With an mtf as with any other person with a penis the majority are interested in women.

Following this incident, if i were asked to vote on the issue, I would have to vote against inclusive restrooms, not because all trans persons are like that, but because it opens up the door to people who are. Like, when I leave my apartment I lock the door, not because the majority of people are going to break in, but because the fringe person might. Ultimately, I believe that all people should be safe from non-consensual sexualized situations of all forms.

Well, I don't really feel it's accurate to assume that everyone with that body part are interested in women as there are plenty of gay men and straight transexual women,  but sexual orientation doesn't dictate behaviour.  I can safely say that I've never stared at any men in bathrooms or locker rooms as I feel it's inappropriate.  I'm sure the same is true for lesbians whether they are trans or cis.  But the thing that does get to me is that people assume that we are predators which is far from what most of us are.  Now, I confess, I've been uncomfortable around some trans people before.  Once a person came up to me and brought up anal sex and their genitalia when I was talking to a concerned mother in private after a trans meeting about the hardships her daughter faces.  It really made both of us uncomfortable even though I tried to be polite and know they meant know harm.  There are other things too, but I'd like to keep them private.  So I do understand why you feel that way even though I think that applies to a minority. To be honest, I have faced inappropriate behavior in the the changing rooms before that was pretty much bullying and harassment, so I know how it feels to a degree even though these things happened pre-transition.  Therefore, I can't begrudge you for this even though it really does hurt to be prejudged as something that is so far from both who I am and many of the transexuals I know. 

I know you mean no harm, but it really does sadden me to be lumped into a category with voyers/fetishists and know many transexuals probably feel the same way.  The fact is all I want is a normal life like any other woman.  I'd wager most of the things cis women want out of life are similar to what we want. However, people have this preconceived notion on who we are and it's reinforced by the actions of the few.  Most of us aren't looking for sexual thrills nor is this a lifestyle choice.  We just want to live as us and in peace. This is the reason most of us don't live out of the closet and I'd be hard pressed that you'd meet many transexuals that would have a glitter hat on identifying them.  Most of us you'd probably not even know about our condition. When people see us as aggressivly sexual men or just the really gay guy, it makes our lives really hard.  We become a second class citizen in the eyes of others and sometimes in the law.  I avoid public bathrooms, but it terrifies me to imagine having to use the men's or women's room once I go full time.  In one I'm viewed as a predator, in the other I'm a women alone in a men's bathroom or the "queer" that walked into the wrong place.  And in other aspects of my life it makes me wonder how I'll be treated.  Will I never find a good career because I'm seen as a freak and may face discrimination because of it? Will any man ever love the person I am or will I just be seen as a gay guy trying to trick him and never get to experience marriage or true love?  Will I ever be seen as one of the girls or accepted as a sister or daughter?  Will my family ever accept me or see me in the same light they once did or will I now always be seen as a weird disappointment?  What if somebody knows about my past and they react poorly?  Will I be ridculed, laughed at or bullied in some way? What if me or my family is attacked or discrimated for it?  Will I forever be condemed as something I'm not or will I finally be understood?  That's why I really hate those who create a distorted image about who we are and why we do what we do.  It makes my life harder and the same for others.  That's why I am going to opt to live in stealth (except with any potential romantic partner) and just live as the real me in secret.  Otherwise, I sacrifice my saftey and security in some form.  I have nothing against those who dress for fun or a fetish, that's their perogative, but I do think that there needs to be an understanding of the differences within the transgender community as it can make a transexual women's life harder than it need be.  We aren't men and most don't behave as such.   It's frustrating to no end because it's another brick in the wall for us to live a normal life. 

In any case, I hope you try to learn where most of us are coming from, and I do appreciate you trying to reach out instead of simply judging us.  Having the understanding and support from the outside really makes things better for all of us who just want to live a normal life as the people we are.   And sorry for this long tangent, but it does sadden me when we are misunderstood or seen as something we are not because it hurts in many ways.  We didn't ask to be born wrong and most of us are just correcting that wrongness in order to find happiness.  While it may be a game and thrills to some people, it's not for most of us.  Eh, sorry again for the long post, it just really hits me emotionally to know that I'm seen as weirdo or predator and lumped into a category I have no relation with because of a minority of some people that call themselves by the same label as me.  It's why I struggle and am so preoccupied about passing and living stealth as these are the things that haunt me.  Sorry if I said anything to hurt or offend because it's not my intention or goal. 

Quote from: Dahlia on February 18, 2014, 01:30:12 AM
The majority of MTF are into women (only),
very often have a (very) masculine nature
sometimes behave like straight men..

As far as I am concerned:

1. Yep.
2. LOL No.
3. LOL Again...No.

I suspect this is confirmation bias, which is a natural human thing... as others have said, the trans women who act like other perfectly ordinary women don't stand out (and don't have it on a hat - the heck was THAT woman thinking?!), so the only ones who are a) identifiable and b) memorable are the ones misbehaving horrifically.  I've actually had someone say to me that they've never met a trans person, in a room that contained two of them right then. :) Not all of us are like that, but the ones that stick in the mind are the bad apples.

(I've also, ironically, had this same conversation with a trans female friend who'd become afraid of all cis people after being sexually assaulted multiple times by cis women. As others have said, every group does *have* its bad apples.)

Quote from: Dahlia on February 18, 2014, 01:30:12 AM
The majority of MTF are into women (only), very often have a (very) masculine nature and sometimes behave like straight men..


I couldn't get my head around it when I came out  as a MTF (whose  into masculine men only) but gotten used to it and learned to avoid them IRL....since some of them don't and won't understand I'm not into women at all.

I attended a MTF meeting a couple of years ago...a middle aged MTF chatted me up and asked if I had SRS....to my 'no, I haven't' she responded to my astonishment with 'oh, so you still can have intercourse with your wife'

It turned out to be unnecessary to explain I wasn't into women at all, let alone married to one; she didn't understand.
Like many lesbian MTF, bi and straight men refuse to believe I was never with a woman for the simple reason I'm not into women at all thus never 'tried'  too.

I felt violated on many occasions too...especially when ex straight/lesbian MTF turn out to be homophobic and calling MTF who are into men only 'sex change queers' etc....when I turned down their 'hitting on me'..
And yes, I've called a 'bigot' too when I turned down MTF and 'straight' men who turned out to be (fetish) tv's, cd's or even pre MTF themselves.

WTF?  I don't even know where to begin here. *facepalm*

MTFs seem to be pretty evenly split in sexual preference from my experiences, are quite feminine by nature more often than not, and do not act like men at all, whether gay or straight (and that's another stupid fat can of worms).  I've met a LOT of transwomen now, some may LOOK a bit masculine on the surface, but once you get talking, it's obvious you are interacting with a WOMAN.  And I don't want to know how you ended up encountering this unrepresentative sample of gender variants. /facepalm

Jill : Don't even begin. :) Dahlia repeats this same stuff every chance she gets, and while I accept it's what she sincerely believes, she's not gonna be talked out of it. I suppose her area must be filled with some awfully unrepresentative trans women.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on February 18, 2014, 06:22:33 PM
Jill : Don't even begin. :) Dahlia repeats this same stuff every chance she gets, and while I accept it's what she sincerely believes, she's not gonna be talked out of it. I suppose her area must be filled with some awfully unrepresentative trans women.

You know, she wasn't even on my radar until 30 minutes ago and didn't look at her history until just now. You should be able to see that red palmprint on my forehead from space now.

(Jill : I wish I could +1 posts. :) I only started to wonder when I noticed the wording seemed awfully familiar...)

Dahlia can't control herself. She'll roll out the big-headed, broad shouldered, hulking cowboy lingo any post now.

It sucks but everyone already knows that some people who say they are transsexual make it harder for everyone. And working on the PR in the mainstream media is to put in pretty faces that fit into the normal female world and make the rest of the US (my part of the world) more comfortable with the idea of us.

Quote from: Jill F on February 18, 2014, 06:32:36 PM
You know, she wasn't even on my radar until 30 minutes ago and didn't look at her history until just now. You should be able to see that red palmprint on my forehead from space now.

Prints!! In!! Spaaaaaace!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CdVTCDdEwI

Quote from: jussmoi4nao on February 18, 2014, 10:49:11 AM
I think there are sexual fetishists in the trans* community. Sorry, I don't see why that's wrong to say. Every community has some of those types, and the trans* community has a loot, despite denying it has any.

At what point do we end the PC bandwagon? I say when you have people violating womens spaces and making a mockery of the experiences of trans* people who have struggled with dysphoria and are just looking to be comfortable in their own skin, the sacrifice of political correctness is that you're invalidating...frankly more genuine experiences.

I'm sorry, this cultish mentality, its not something I want to be apart of. Support and affirmation is good, but sometimes this community takes it a weird level of "trannies can do no wrong". And this post I'm going to stand by cuz I said nothing wrong.

I should add I've had experiences not unlike the OPs leaving me...disillusioned.

Yeah I totally agree on he cultish mentality part. It really turns me off sometimes. I'm me and sometimes when I hear we, our, us, it just gets to me. And I also agree with the whole "trannies can do no wrong" aspect of what you said. Sure they can, just like anyone else. In fact, sometimes it gets to me so much cause I'm a pretty demure person and I feel limped in with people I really have nothing in common with other than being trans. I doubt all gay men or people who like football, say us or we and take it to that level.

"people who have struggled with dysphoria and are just looking to be comfortable in their own skin, the sacrifice of political correctness is that you're invalidating...frankly more genuine experiences."

I couldn't agreee with this part anymore if I tried. I've always struggled and sometimes I feeel like people who have lived lives completely comfortable as a male think we have the same exact experience. And I  do feel for them and on some level, I relate. But can they relate to not being able to put on a mask? I hear all the time people put on this mask. I never received one. Being trans or gay or both seeped out of me like ooze out of a part wound. It could not be hid. I tried really hard in high school and I remember sitting at the lunch table with two of my friends, misty and stef, and we were talking about what we would be when we grew up and  about me they both said in unison: M____ is going to be a housewife! They weren't koking and then went all into what kind of dress I would wear to my wedding and stuff. I guess it didn't help that I said I am wearing a one with a princess neckline lol but sometimes here I feeel out of place.

At the same time, I doubt all trans women are like , if even many. But i'm sure some are and the boob talk on this board really gets to me and i never click on it. Sometimes I put my stats but that's just to help people who are wondering when they should see some growth and how much. Maybe I'm completely wrong,, but jussmoi4now's post really resonated with me and says a lot about how I feel. I mean if I could hide it, I prolly wouldnt transition, well maybe not, cause I love it o much and have sever dysphoria of every type: social, body, psychological.

Hope this didn't offend but it's how I feel. I mean I guess I'm lucky in that I pass really well. I wont be winning any beauty contests but no one sir's me ever. So I guess that gives me a different experience than someone who say does not pass and can't without FFS. I dont know. There are certainly trans women like the ones the OP talked about, however I recieved so much hate yesterday from some freak, who is a cis femamle lesbian, I think every group has these people. I also recieved really nice repsonses. But it taught me, cause I dont care, that really I just like men and should stick with it. Cause if a man said that I would still be crying and in bed.

Sorry for the spelling mistakes. lol

To the OP, so all trans women should be barred from using female restrooms? How do you enforce that? ID? I lost it. Sorry. Oh, I can't use the bathroom. What? The thing is I look almost completley female with breats and all and live as a female but because some people ruin it for the rest of us, I should be forced into a male rest room where I would be in extreme danger as I live in a bad area. I got propositioned three times today and whistled at. I felt really ugly last week, so it gave me some confidence, but being shoved into the male restroom, to be raped, again, is horrid. horrid. horrid. How is that looking out for everyone's safety. Or everyone's safety but mine. Sorry, I'm calling troll alert on you. You will think of a n answer to any questiona and I doubt this stuff happened to you, in the library no less. Lat time I talked in a library I got shushed. Librarians dont hesitate to use the shush and I am going to go to school to be one. Luckily I pass, and pass better everyday, so maybe this issue does not apply to me cause no one will know. I used the woman's room the other day and had conversatiosn with women and had zero problems and no bad looks.

Quote from: locame on February 18, 2014, 12:17:03 AM
Hello. I hesitated quite some time before deciding to share my situation hoping to come to a better understanding of the trans community. I hope I can express myself well enough to not be mistaken.

I'm struggling with a situation that comes as a culmination of all my contacts in life with mtf trans persons and the fact that they have all had elements of sexual inappropriate ness. I've been called a bigot for being upset  about what happened today. I came here searching for some answers and I guess to explain I should start at the beginning.

My first mtf contact was online several years ago. The person identified herself as a lesbian female. Over the course of a few weeks she kept slipping comments into conversations of a sexual nature. Not being interested I said so, but did not cut off contact due to recognizing that this person had some issues and could probably use a friend. Eventually cut off contact when it became clear that what was a level of sexual harrasment would not stop. Later learned of her preop mtf status.

Fast forward a few years, and I'm out in public at a library and a non passing mtf transexual (she identified as such which I knew due to the fact that it was written in glitter across her hat) sits across from me at the table. I look up and say hello politely and go back to my homework. After a minute or so she strikes up a conversation about the internet connection, then transitions it suddenly to a monologue about men not understanding women's needs sexually. Who does that with a stranger seriously?

Fast forward some more and in a strange public encounter another stranger, an mtf decides to walk up and ask me how their breasts look. Gape mouthed and stunned for a good 30 seconds I finally reply with "that's an awkward question" and walk away.

And finally today, a preop bottom mtf transgender in my health club locker room while I'm dressing, obviously sexually aroused.

All of these put together have created a downward spiral in my opinion of the community. I feel violated in the same way I do when a man passing by says nice rack or a lesbian friend doesn't respect my no answer. I feel angry for being characterized as a bigot for wanting to feel sexually safe.

And ultimately I'm left asking the question on Google that brought me yo this site, why are these mtf people I have met  all about sex. I've never had a cis female who was a stranger try to talk to me about sex or ask me to comment on their breasts. Most lesbians I've known have easily taken not interested for an answer and definitely didn't put their sexuality on display in vulnerable situations.

So all that being said,  the only theory I could come up with was that maybe this is the stereotypes an mtf comes to femininity with and doesn't understand the "circle" when it comes to discussing private things? Meaning friends may have conversations that invade personal space but its not just any other person of that gender.

So what am I missing here? Why do all my mtf interactions have this strange personal boundary issues? How do I support equality without having my own safety violated? And why is it not ok with the politically correct crowd for me to have an issue with an erection in proximity to my naked body without permission just because the owner identifies as fem?


-confused and... A lot of other things

If what you say happened in the health club locker room today, you should have called the police.  Not just reported it to the front desk.

We in the trans community do not put up with pervs any more than the cis community will put up with them.

Frankly, your story stinks like the Toronto newspaper report a few weeks ago.  And we have seen in the last  few months a number of bogus claims made against transgendered people in California, Colorado, and elsewhere.  These bogus claims are the result of an agenda against trans civil rights.  And many are aided and abetted by the disgusting radfem community.

Tell me the details of where, when, and what happened in this incident, and I will be happy to contact the police for you.

My email is in my profile.

Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on February 18, 2014, 07:34:58 PM
If what you say happened in the health club locker room today, you should have called the police.  Not just reported it to the front desk.

We in the trans community do not put up with pervs any more than the cis community will put up with them.

Frankly, your story stinks like the Toronto newspaper report a few weeks ago.  And we have seen in the last  few months a number of bogus claims made against transgendered people in California, Colorado, and elsewhere.  These bogus claims are the result of an agenda against trans civil rights.  And many are aided and abetted by the disgusting radfem community.

Tell me the details of where, when, and what happened in this incident, and I will be happy to contact the police for you.

My email is in my profile.

thank you for some rationality

Quote from: Dahlia on February 18, 2014, 02:44:49 PM
Of course...since you're a cisman and most MTF are into women (only)
And the op is a ciswoman...quite a difference, isn't it?

I'd really quite.. prefer we stopped this notion that most MTFs are only into women. for a multitude of reaons.. But mostly because it's overly generalized and just wrong. And I feel there's this sort of judging undertone by saying "Most MTFs only in to women"

Quote from: stephaniec on February 18, 2014, 07:43:53 PM
thank you for some rationality

I don't think that it is really rational.. Mainly because she's posting it here. Not in some new paper editorial column, and asking the people that can actually hand her answers >_>

Quote from: Kelly-087 on February 19, 2014, 12:21:52 AM
I don't think that it is really rational.. Mainly because she's posting it here. Not in some new paper editorial column, and asking the people that can actually hand her answers >_>

Not sure what you mean.  What in my comment about the opening post was irrational?

(If the "she" in you post refers to me, look at the gender marker)

Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on February 19, 2014, 12:41:18 AM
Not sure what you mean.  What in my comment about the opening post was irrational?

(If the "she" in you post refers to me, look at the gender marker)

The part where it clearly has to be a fake story because it reflected similar circumstances as fake stories.

I get your skepticism, I do. But honestly: Things of this nature WILL happen.

I feel like you just want to shut someone down who wanted, who honestly is curious about the rest of us and willing to learn of our own little community rather than writing us off as pervs.

I did not say it was a "fake story."  I said that it sounds like demonstrably bogus stories that have been circulating the past few months.  Stories that are agenda driven.

If the OP encountered a perv passing themselves off as trans, or who is trans, I want that person out of circulation, because it makes us all look bad.

I have been combating these very sorts of claims, none of which had any sort of corroboration, but are freely floated with the help of ideologues.  This community will not be tarred with innuendo and propaganda if I can help it.

The offer to the OP remains - give me the details and I will gladly report them for you.

So I spoke again today with management at my club. Actual management, not shift management as I had yesterday. This person clarified the policy they have which is inclusive for transitioned individuals, but prohibits exposure of biologically opposite gender due to the fact that the club serviced birth up. I am satisfied that this is a reasonable option. Gender neutral areas are available for those not comfortable with the locker rooms of their lower equipment gender . i was asked if I intended to pursue legal means and said no. The person in question was informed of the policy and the possibility of legal action should they choose not to abide by the rules.
They did not share the persons response. If you happen to hear of a trans right case coming out of Madison I suppose you'll know the other side of the story.

Questioning the situation (through Google) is what brought me here. The person (people if you look at the other incidents) did not harm me. I know through my profession that erections are not always a sexual response. The presence of a penis in the room was in and of itself the main problem. Likened to walking into an office and seeing a vibrator on the bosses desk that he states is for shoulder massage. It still makes the environment sexual regardless of honest intent.

As far as the rest... The negativity etc. . sighs. Cisfems like me who actually bother to ask the questions and try to understand your perspective are the only friends you have in the cisfem community. Might want to ponder that when reacting. I am neither radical feminist nor religious militant. I want to be safe myself first and foremost, and secondly want that for others as well (selfish, perhaps. But human)
I so not condone, support, or otherwise feel any satisfaction at assault on trans women. For those of you having experienced that, I am deeply sorry. Sad to say, but the fatalistic part of me thought as I read those stories "welcome to the club" and to what too often is the female experience

Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on February 19, 2014, 01:14:39 AM
I did not say it was a "fake story."  I said that it sounds like demonstrably bogus stories that have been circulating the past few months.  Stories that are agenda driven.

If the OP encountered a perv passing themselves off as trans, or who is trans, I want that person out of circulation, because it makes us all look bad.

I have been combating these very sorts of claims, none of which had any sort of corroboration, but are freely floated with the help of ideologues.  This community will not be tarred with innuendo and propaganda if I can help it.

The offer to the OP remains - give me the details and I will gladly report them for you.

Interestingly enough the idea of legal action never even occurred to me. I reqd your comment earlier before speaking to a manager at the club. Maybe a weird part of my personality but while feeling violated in all of the circumstances I related, I never once sincerely believed someone was doing something to me intentionally. Assuming that the internet girl just had mental issues (she did which I won't get into), assuming that the two inappropriate conversationalists just really didn't get the boundaries, and that the last just had an uncontrollable physical response. With the caveat in the last case that the reaction when cilonfronted was less than understanding of anyone else's feelings which was intentional. Like, I'm entitled to wave my penis wherever I want.

Kia Ora Locome,

::) So now you have expressed your concerns and have received a number of responses, what will you take away from this encounter ? Are you 'more' or 'less' confused ?

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: locame on February 19, 2014, 01:49:29 AM
I so not condone, support, or otherwise feel any satisfaction at assault on trans women. For those of you having experienced that, I am deeply sorry. Sad to say, but the fatalistic part of me thought as I read those stories "welcome to the club" and to what too often is the female experience

Welcome to the club? No really. If you do your research (ex: http://www.thetaskforce.org/reports_and_research/ntds) you'd understand that we are part of a super special exclusive club. The lowest of the totem pole women on the planet club. The club where I have more trans friends who have been sexually assaulted, than trans friends who haven't. Yes, thank you so much for your welcome. Thank you very much for your superior cis woman knowledge, like we don't have a damn clue. Please.

What happened to you is totally ->-bleeped-<-ty. Like absolutely, no question, those people were completely out of line and inappropriate and screw them for being disrespectful, disgusting jerks. But to paint an entire community of millions of humans from your own personal experience? The plural of anecdote is not data. And if you met me, you'd think I was just another cis girl, same if you met any of my trans friends. Cause we hide in plain view as a way to try to stay safe. Because you cis women, who have the political and social and legal power that I can only dream of? You are damn terrifying. Like totally. This story? It might set back trans rights in your state another decade, because ->-bleeped-<- trannies right? Who cares? Not important.

I'm 29 and a dyke and an editor. I'm disabled. I cut for nine years. I have a girlfriend I love to death. I've survived two suicide attempts. I have parents who love me and support me and look out for me and I go home every year for holidays and their birthdays. My sister is famous enough that I'm terrified it's going to accidentally out me at some point. I live stealth: my family and closest friends are the only ones who know my history. I'm a feminist. I've only slept with two different people in my life. I volunteer for the editorial board of a small socialist book publisher. I have green eyes and dark blonde hair and skin so pale it verges on translucent. I'm 6' tall and thin as a stick. I have 9 piercings and 2 tattoos. I wear glasses. I'm on an anti-anxiety medication.

You are probably thinking, what is the point of this? Why am I telling all this? Because I think that since you have decided to condemn me for the actions of others, that since you have decided that just my existence in your space is dangerous, maybe you should know something about me. Maybe you should consider the human being who you are condemning to "welcome to the club."

I would never wish such a thing on you. I would never want you to be unsafe or threatened. And I am extremely distressed and disturbed that you are so scared of me that you would knowingly condemn me to an unsafe environment (like seriously, do you know how few places have gender neutral facilities?). I don't think you are an ally. I think you are my enemy. I wish you weren't. But I think you are. And if I have to make you FEEL unsafe so that I can BE safe, I am willing to make that trade.

And like you said, in the end, my safety and the safety of my community comes first. Because who else is going to look after us? Nobody gives a ->-bleeped-<- about trannies. Duh.

Fake post.

Quote from: Anatta on February 19, 2014, 02:12:15 AM
Kia Ora Locome,

::) So now you have expressed your concerns and have received a number of responses, what will you take away from this encounter ? Are you 'more' or 'less' confused ?

Metta Zenda :)

Metta zenda,
Less in some ways. More in others. My initial emotional reaction having passed, I recognize that the trans community is more diverse than I've had experience withv(I knew this, sort of, but when you're in the midst of such a reaction its hard to see). More with regard to how the issue should be handled going forward. How do I reconcile the safety of others without endangering my own? In regards to facilities I am leaning towards regulations requiring private areas, period. Maybe the day for gendered facilities is over, period.

Quote from: locame on February 19, 2014, 02:03:56 AM
Interestingly enough the idea of legal action never even occurred to me. I reqd your comment earlier before speaking to a manager at the club. Maybe a weird part of my personality but while feeling violated in all of the circumstances I related, I never once sincerely believed someone was doing something to me intentionally. Assuming that the internet girl just had mental issues (she did which I won't get into), assuming that the two inappropriate conversationalists just really didn't get the boundaries, and that the last just had an uncontrollable physical response. With the caveat in the last case that the reaction when cilonfronted was less than understanding of anyone else's feelings which was intentional. Like, I'm entitled to wave my penis wherever I want.

I am glad you followed up.  I am glad the club has a policy.  Pre-op exposure in sexually segregated areas is a touchy issue in our community as well, as you stated earlier.

If it happens again, I expect you will do more that complain to the management.  I would have been equally offended if I had been in that locker room, or if a ciswoman had made lewd or suggestive remarks/exposure toward me.

You need to remember that much of the controversy surrounding this is cultural.  Take, for instance the ancient Japanese practice of hadaka no tsukiai; or the communal Roman baths.

Sarah, again I'm sorry if that statement came off as callous. In no way did I mean that sexual assault of any kind was to be wished on anyone. My point was only that women are overwhelmingly the primary targets of sexual assault. I do not say that lightly as I have been victim myself. More... Resignedly that it is how the world unfortunately works, not how it should be.

To the OP: So this person was just waving their exposed and erect penis around in the changing room without trying to be discreet at all? I just find that very difficult to believe. Perhaps I'm not reading the parts where you describe the experience right?

In response to your questions though, I will just say that I believe personal space should be respected. Also that everyone should have a right to feel safe in places like changing rooms and restrooms. But you can't judge all transwomen by the actions of a few bad apples. You punish the perpetrators, not put an entire group at risk because you think some of them might not be safe.

Quote from: locame on February 19, 2014, 02:38:29 AM
Sarah, again I'm sorry if that statement came off as callous. In no way did I mean that sexual assault of any kind was to be wished on anyone. My point was only that women are overwhelmingly the primary targets of sexual assault. I do not say that lightly as I have been victim myself. More... Resignedly that it is how the world unfortunately works, not how it should be.

And yet you are perfectly okay with dumping me into an extremely unsafe environment to take my chances.

QuoteFollowing this incident, if i were asked to vote on the issue, I would have to vote against inclusive restrooms, not because all trans persons are like that, but because it opens up the door to people who are. Like, when I leave my apartment I lock the door, not because the majority of people are going to break in, but because the fringe person might. Ultimately, I believe that all people should be safe from non-consensual sexualized situations of all forms.

Or am I supposed to read that in some other way than "go get raped in the men's locker room, you disgusting ->-bleeped-<-"? Because the dream of gender neutral rooms is just that: a dream. You think all the pre-existing buildings with only two sets of bathrooms are magically going to change overnight? Lolz. Or do you somehow imagine that a trans woman is gonna be safe in a men's room if she has a dick? Haha. Pre-ops and non-ops are MORE at risk of assault, not less.

I don't think you are "sorry" at all. I don't think you are here to find answers. I think you are here to give 'em. Because you got hurt, so you want to hurt back. But whatever. Maybe you'll prove me wrong. But the idea that you are an "ally" is comical at best, and rude at worst. My ally is my sis who took me into the women's restroom the first time, because I was too terrified to go by myself. You are just some person on the internet telling me what I should and shouldn't do. Such a new and exciting experience. Really.

And before you go for the "I'm sorry you are upset" line or whatever your next play for sympathy is. Lets be clear. I am responding because other people aren't gonna say this ->-bleeped-<-. Because they are too polite or too upset or too screwed up and broken. I am broken, but in different ways. So this is a thing I can do for them. I can protect them from bullies. From people who tell them what they aren't and how they shouldn't be. Me? I find you offensive and irritating, that''s about all.

And for the last time: Your prior sexual assault does not justify you threatening to place others in a situation liable to result in their own sexual assault. That is DISGUSTING. I guess I wasn't clear enough in my first post.

Quote from: locame on February 19, 2014, 02:38:29 AM
women are overwhelmingly the primary targets of sexual assault.

Not that its relevant, or I would expect anyone to know this, but actually male sexual assault is actually more common. Just the level of sexual assault against men in jails takes the level above female sexual assault. Again. It doesn't mean anything here I don't think, but still.

If people do not like what I say then I am sorry, but I have a desire to speak up on this debate as healthy open discussion is vital to reducing barriers.

I honestly feel like being angry at the original post, (not the poster) but I cannot in all honesty as I feel bad for the OP as what is conveyed borders on obscene and cruel. However, I will not accuse anyone of being dishonest in their interactions, as I will not lower myself to the standards of a 4chan troll.

If there is even an iota or miniscule grain of truth to the arbitrarily stated accusations, and I say accusations as being of sane mind I would take legal action if I was being stalked or harassed! Then I too would have every right to feel upset. I know when I got my first 5 years degree at University I met some very diverse people, including women who took offence when I refused to engage in sexual contact with them, and a particularly violent lady who demanded I perform oral sex on her every time I walked in the room. Because and I quote, "you have such a smooth face I bet it would just slip right in there." Nevertheless, does this mean all women are perverse and socially defunct of understanding the simplest of social mores! No. In fact, the other 99.9% are much like me. We are compassionate, kind and have no desire to segregate others based on a 00.0001% section of the population. I have even met men who would frequently belittle my desire to work in a matriarchal dominated industry and call me ->-bleeped-<-got because I had no desire to engage in sex with said women. Does this mean all University students are misandric fools with little to no grasp of what it means to have empathy? No! 

Indeed, as a modern feminist, although I use the term 'feminist' loosely as it is not used by most modern European/Australasian scholars these days. I have come to learn that the actions of one person does not define the next, much like a single grain of sand does not make a beach. In fact, any notion of segregating a demographic based on an apparently perceived notion is archaic and a fallacy on the work of my collages and I who have worked hard to allow all people to be treated with respect.

In conclusion, do I disagree with your terminology and find your accusation horrifying? Yes. Does it mean I will not respect you for using said terminology and for speaking out so bravely? No. Do I hope you are treated with all the respect you deserve and justice is served? Of course, I do and I will fight for that right. Nevertheless, I feel upset that you addressed the topic as you did, it send the wrong message and that is repugnant.   

chances of problems with trans people in bathroom they identify as = very very small indeed.
Chances of problems with trans people in bathrooms they don't identify as = very very large.

I read recently that there have been no reported cases of inappropriate behaviour by trans people in bathrooms in the UK (where I live) but there have been multiple assaults on trans people.  Kinda stands to reason, which is why un the UK we have our bathroom rights protected.