Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Several years ago, it seemed that many of the trans women on the various bulletin boards that I frequented were seriously considering living stealth either during or after transition. However, as I read through the various posts today, it appears fewer may be choosing this option. As someone who did, I wonder why. Does it have to do with a greater degree of acceptance by society toward the trans community, has the scope of those who seriously consider transition increased significantly, or do those who have chosen a stealth lifestyle frequent these sites less often.

Have you seriously considered a stealth life style? What are the reasons for your decision?

I can only speak for my self, but the fact that I've live so much of my life one way then change what's the point of being stealth

All of the above.

Have I considered stealth? yes antill I heard stories off partener rejection after coming out.

I personaly dont think it would be fair to put myself through fear of that.
But their is a lot of gray between stealth and "media spectical"

I fall in the gray. I Dont shout it out, but im not going to hide it either.
Every person I meet that will become a freind will be known to be befreinding an XY woman and not a XX woman.

And I think increased acceptence is why Im comfatable anougth to do that. But area is a factor too, and some will still need stealth.

i live stealth, and due to my circumstances, i'll be still for the next year. not all bad but i just wanna get out sometimes

Quote from: Annie Maier on May 25, 2014, 08:07:32 PM
Have you seriously considered a stealth life style? What are the reasons for your decision?

I made the decision to be open about it because with todays computerized records of everything stealth is becoming almost impossible. We all have a past which will never go away. Look at all we change such as drivers license, insurance plans, bank accounts, medical records, store discount cards and more. Give a kid in a basement 15 minutes and stealth is out the window. Just a sign of the times. I personally think stealth was an option in the past, but today I don't see how it is possible.  :)

I tried stealth and keeping up with two lives and personalities I found to be entirely too taxing.


Not all circumstances are in a vacuum, but for me living full time is soooo--I can't add enough o's to that so--much better for my psyche in every quantifiable way. 

-AM

Even if you are living "stealth", you never know if you're actually stealth. I was stealth at work for 8 months, and while I don't think anybody knew any better, who is to say they did or didn't?

I am just now meeting with a therapist and have not started transition. But living in stealth mode is something I have thought or dreamed about for years. Obviously, it depends on whether I choose to transition. Then there is the reaction from my family and decisions my wife will make which will be a factor. I also have responsibilities as a father, and that would certainly enter into the decision.

Living completely stealth is probably not going to happen. The chances of somebody finding out somewhere along the line is ridiculously high.

I did consider stealth, but decided that I'm not really fussed.

This is partially because there is more acceptance.

Partially because showing people around me that I'm just some other person and not some monster or spectacle can only be a good thing as far as the general image of trans people goes, helping with aforementioned acceptance for us all.

Also, it seems like to make it work I would have to become more feminine than I actually am, to 'assimilate' more than I can without putting on an act. As long as most of the people around me and the people I care about can accept and treat me as female, I don't really mind. For me, that is only reason I would want to be stealth. But it seems that there are people who can treat you as any other woman while knowing about it, so I'll take that and the benefits that go with it (ie: 2nd point I mentioned + interesting conversation topic).

I'm not going to shout it from the rooftops though. Or make a song and dance of it. If it's directly relevant, I'll mention it (esp being pre-op), otherwise I'll keep it to myself, which is different from actively being stealth. As in, I won't go to great lengths to hide or deny it. So, passive stealth? Like I am about I nearly broke my ankle the first time I went ice skating, it's not a big deal so I neither hide or broadcast it. If what I just said makes sense.

I've also been debating this internally, I would love to be completely open but the timing, situation and location are important. As it is for most I guess. I'm so looking forward to it though!!! :)

Unfortunately I think I will have to delay for at least the next six months now as I have just been offered a job in the Solomon Islands as an exploration geologist (gold) lol (Girls do geology too lol, I know many :) ). I will hopefully be able to be stealthily on HRT the whole time, but that is one place in which you do not want to identified as transgender, even homosexuality is still very much illegal and severly punished. It is also a very violent and rapey place. I need to be able to talk to indigenous land owners etc. and I could easily be killed if I was out. Also the guy I will be mostly working for/with is a hard older Rhodesian, he fought in the terrible bush wars there and in Angola, and is a very conservative Christian.. he is a great man in many ways though, but I know if he knew that it would be the end.
I just hope I can find some gold for him and make enough money to go back to university and pay for my surgeries :) I would guess that college/universities are probably up amongst the best places to come out..

Anyway good luck lovely ladies, sometimes good things can take time :)  Take care out there.  :icon_hug:

I would love to live stealth but I agree with the others in that it seems a bit impossible in this day and age, plus I feel like even if I move somewhere far away it's a small world and someone I once knew might be there and out me. 

The reason I wanna live stealth is because I want to be seen as a woman and many people don't see transexual people as the gender they are, even if they pass really really well. 

I can't wait for the day that it will be common knowledge that transexuals were born the way they are and that to judge us will be like judging conjoined twins to want to have surgery to be moved apart from each other.

Quote from: melanie maritz on May 26, 2014, 12:35:47 AM
The reason I wanna live stealth is because I want to be seen as a woman and many people don't see transexual people as the gender they are, even if they pass really really well. 

I beg to differ. Vary rarely do I get a vibe that somebody doesn't see me as female if they know. Even my UFC loving gun toting conservative brother sees me as female.

That's great Alainaluvsu, I hope I will get to experience that as well when I pass better

I think the days of being truly stealth are long gone.  If someone wants to find out our pasts, it's easy enough.

The best I think I'll ever manage, no matter how passable I end up looking, is being stealth to those who have never met me before - strangers on the street, etc.  There is no chance whatsoever that I'll be able to totally hide my male past.

I'm okay with that though.  I have absolutely no shame (anymore) about being trans.  It is what it is.  I can still be attractive and girly and trans, and there's no need for someone like me to try to hide everything.

I remember how absolutely f**king tiring it was to hide being trans from people.  It was a life-consuming battle that ended up not being worth it.  Trying to go stealth seems like much the same thing - weaving a massive, elaborate shell of fakeness and lies, trying to make everything so perfect and knowing that just one tiny slip will cause everything to collapse.  I couldn't live like that.

That's not to say that I won't do everything within my power and resources to look as girly as I possibly can.  I just don't want to expend the extraordinary mental effort it takes to hide secrets from people.  Life's too short.

I think that transitioning has to be well planned beforehand.
There are different ways to do it.
One is to burn all bridges once you are the other side.
People posting here, even me, will leave a trace.
I have some friends whom never posted anything.
No traces at all. Search engines, Wayback Machine included.
I'm all over the place.
I can only build a shield against bigots and other a-holes passing through my life.
No other solution I guess.
I plan to 'hide' my transition as long as I can.
After that, I'll have to assume the situation.
My bridges are made of stones and iron.
Future will tell.

Sonia

In a way I do live in stealth and in some ways I don't. It's a delicate balance, since going full time and passing. I don't shout it out to every person I meet. My transition is no one's business but mine. Its fine that my past is there to some extent but I don't have a big history of my previous life anyways, since I started transition young. The only people that get to know my trans status up front, from the get go, are those I'm beginning to date. I have friends that don't know I'm trans and I like it that way if they ever do find out, I'd be more than happy to talk and help them understand what transition means and all that stuff. But I'm a woman first and foremost, transition does not define my identity and it isn't something that everyone and anyone needs to know. For me it's extremely private and a very sensitive area of my life, letting someone know something so intimate about myself means that I'm trusting them a great deal and thus that trust is returned back to me. Like I tell them for example outing us in a public space or through gossip is absolutely wrong. So if they ever meet another person in transition they will understand how to respect what we're going through. Now of course that's not always gonna happen and people will talk nonetheless but at least it was said and that's all we can do in the end, is to start some sort of dialogue that helps educate.

Another thing is that for some people it's a non issue so even if someone does know in the end it really doesn't matter, since it's not something that bothers them. A lot of the hate and discrimination we get is mostly from a lack of understanding. If people would just see us as like any other human being then the fear of passing or not and this worry about if they know or not is diminished greatly. All we want is acceptance and understanding.

I was presenting female before hrt, before I was passing. And life was harder than but when I would come out to people, it was a bit of a shock for those who had known me for so long but at the same time they accepted me because I educated them. Many of them were compassionate and very empathetic. It's a tough thing to do but can be done with the right words and timing.

As others have mentioned the issue of your location also plays a serious importance. I live in a town that's extremely conservative. I have to be careful in this area. I really can't wait to live somewhere out west cause this fear is super annoying. It is what it is and I have to keep my guard up at all times cause you never know. Despite that it's of little concern since I have finally gained my confidence back and I'm usually with someone and rarely ever alone. And if I have to I know I can defend myself, that's what all those years of training in martial arts/boxing were for :laugh:

Quote from: melanie maritz on May 26, 2014, 02:03:39 AM
That's great Alainaluvsu, I hope I will get to experience that as well when I pass better

I don't think it's all about passing in a visual sense. I think it's an overall output from the trans person to relay the correct gender. Honestly, I think voice is a bigger factor than a lot of people realize. And that's just 1 piece of a big puzzle.

You're right Alainaluvsu, passing has a lot to do with how you sound. That's my biggest problem at the moment

If I can get away with someone not realising I'm trans* that's great, so many people know though it's highly unlikely, at least it won't be for a number of years.

Quote from: __________ on May 26, 2014, 02:19:20 AM
I think the days of being truly stealth are long gone.  If someone wants to find out our pasts, it's easy enough.

The best I think I'll ever manage, no matter how passable I end up looking, is being stealth to those who have never met me before - strangers on the street, etc.  There is no chance whatsoever that I'll be able to totally hide my male past.

I'm okay with that though.  I have absolutely no shame (anymore) about being trans.  It is what it is.  I can still be attractive and girly and trans, and there's no need for someone like me to try to hide everything.

I remember how absolutely f**king tiring it was to hide being trans from people.  It was a life-consuming battle that ended up not being worth it.  Trying to go stealth seems like much the same thing - weaving a massive, elaborate shell of fakeness and lies, trying to make everything so perfect and knowing that just one tiny slip will cause everything to collapse.  I couldn't live like that.

That's not to say that I won't do everything within my power and resources to look as girly as I possibly can.  I just don't want to expend the extraordinary mental effort it takes to hide secrets from people.  Life's too short.

You took the words right out of my mouth. I'm not ashamed of who I am or my past. I've lived honestly and true to myself. If I'm not asked, I won't tell. I won't attract attention to myself. However if I meet someone new whom I feel may become a decent friend I've no problem with telling them. After all, there's a personal safety issue to be considered here as well. A lot of violence toward transgender people, especially MTF's happens when close friends or Significant Others find out either by accident or malice.

Stay safe everyone!

Hugs :icon_hug:

Ally :icon_flower:

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on May 26, 2014, 03:44:15 AM
I don't think it's all about passing in a visual sense. I think it's an overall output from the trans person to relay the correct gender. Honestly, I think voice is a bigger factor than a lot of people realize. And that's just 1 piece of a big puzzle.

Alainaluvsu, I usually agree with everything your saying, but here I have a difference of opinion. While I'll agree that voice is a huge piece of the puzzle, I've been passing for the last 5 years nonstop with a very scratchy voice in the mid to upper male range. So I don't think that voice alone will prevent you from passing or remaining stealth. Yes I am tiny with an unmistakable female body shape, and how I present to others is quite girly (I've always been this way -too hard to hide my girlyness even as a child) which I feel has a lot to do with my passing with ease despite my voice issues. But these things alone aren't enough either. I'm very confident in my femininity, which I've been told shines through as I present myself to others. So I don't believe any one thing will make or break whether you pass or not, or can go stealth. I believe it's the entire package that makes the difference. And also that if there's a weak link in one's presentation such as voice, if the rest of one's presentation is strongly confident and feminine people will look past the voice.

On a personal note: Though it's taken nearly 5 years of trying I've finally found a semblance of my feminine voice. While presently I can't say more than a few words, I finally have found some little hope that even though my throat has suffered much damage due to my accident, with practice I may be able to speak in a higher more feminine pitch until I have my VFS. Small victories!!, YaY!

Best wishes Girls!

Ally :icon_flower:

My original plan was to transition, then immediately cut off all my family/friends, move across the country, and live completely stealth for the rest of my days (growing up in a *very* southern baptist environment, I had assumed people the world over, in general, responded to trans people with either violence, or super violence, and considered stealth a necessity).

Unfortunately the GD became so bad I couldn't wait until I had graduated to say something/begin transition. Thus, I came out to my girlfriend (who responded AMAZINGLY), then got up the courage to come out to some of my other friends (who were generally not surprised). Scheduled an appointment with one of my campus therapists who helped me not associate GD/being trans* with unimaginable guilt and shame. I started going to LGBT groups on campus who were super supportive, used correct pronouns, etc. and gained some confidence.

This still didn't convince me to live non-stealth, but it DID help me accept that, inevitably, with all the information out there, someone would find out somehow, and that it wouldn't mean the end of the world.

With the trans* movement becoming more and more prominent, I finally decided to be *open* about it and give up on living stealth. I realized one of the reasons things are so bad for trans* people it that, unlike gay/lesbian people, most people do not know a trans* person. There is a quote often attributed to Harvey Milk that really struck me when I was considering living stealth, and I'm surely paraphrasing/misquoting but the gist of it was, "If every gay person in this country would come out of the closet, we'd win overnight". Well I agreed and felt surely the same could apply to trans* people.

So, here I am, living openly; it's a lot easier to hate a group when you don't have the face of someone you've known and loved tied to it. Just hoping that by living openly it'll do some good for the world.

Quote from: melanie maritz on May 26, 2014, 12:35:47 AM
I would love to live stealth but I agree with the others in that it seems a bit impossible in this day and age, plus I feel like even if I move somewhere far away it's a small world and someone I once knew might be there and out me.

I guess it concerns me a little – all this talk about it being impossible to live a stealth life with all the technology around. I transitioned at work in 1982 and the experience of being called a freak and various other nasty names by work colleagues didn't exactly fill me with delight. I could not wait to have my SRS and disappear.

After my SRS I applied for a job in London as Caroline. My then boss gave me a glowing reference without mentioning my trans status and I got the job. About two years later I applied for a much better job and got that, too. This time I changed my surname, just to dust over the tracks, so to speak.

It was at that job that I met the man who would go on to become my husband. He was married at the time, but I met him again years later after he had divorced and we decided to live together. I broke the news to him about my trans-status 6 months after we moved in together. The reason I did it was because I had two children who had accepted me as Caroline and I wanted to be able to see them again.

My revelation led to a tricky few weeks but we stayed together and he has been my rock ever since. We got married in 2006. None of his side of the family know my secret and neither do my four grandchildren. I'm happy with that.

As for bumping into somebody from my past. Yes, it has happened three or four times, but in each case they have not realised they knew me before. One actually joined as an IT specialist at the firm where I worked and I didn't recognise him because he had a common name and had put on some weight. It was only a few months later when he was talking about where he used to work that I realised we had been colleagues in my previous life.

Nothing happened and we carried on working together for several years until he was made redundant and I was promoted to head of the department. He had been a good worker, so I then decided to hire him on a contract to keep our computers running.

But the face from the past that really was a hoot was an engineer who came in to service a piece of equipment for the company. Minus his beard I didn't recognise him, but when he said his name, I recognised him immediately as someone I had worked with.

I had to explain to him what the problem was we were having with this piece of equipment. We were both in a small room where the equipment was kept, so time for a bit of small talk. I asked him where he had worked before. He mentioned several places including the one where we had both worked. He had been in charge of dealing with the post there and I knew him quite well at the time. But according to him he had been a chief executive in charge of major contracts. Lol

As we talked, I realised that he was actually flirting with me, which I found quite funny. I graciously declined his invitation to go out with him, saying my boyfriend wouldn't be happy.

Being in stealth has worked for me and I have never had any problems with getting jobs – and I have never had to leave a job because of my secret leaking out.

One day it might come back to bite me and I'll have to deal with that when it does. But I have had 30 years being in stealth – ok, so my children know about me, but I wouldn't want it any other way.


Caroline
x

Okay....so stupid question....What exactly is meant by going stealth?  It sounds like mainly hiding the fact that you are trans, either by omission (just not telling people), burying it (pretty much burying it away after passing full/fully transitioning, so no one finds out), or running incognito (presenting completely as male in public until the transition is "complete").  How close am I?  I want to put my two cents in here, but want to make sure I know what I'm talking about first.

True stealth would be virtually impossible unless you'd been diagnosed as a 3 year old.... People will out you. You need to have strategies for coping with this. It honestly feels like having the floor ripped out from under you. I recently found out a friend had outed me to some of her friends. My response was, to inform some of my friends that she suffers from herpes. I then casually mentioned to her that, I was discussing her herpes with some friends, and they were all shocked because she totaly didn't seem like the type to have it. She was horrified and devistated but eventually, the delicious irony dawned upon her.

My "friends" don't out me now.

Quote from: Ravensong on May 26, 2014, 09:55:27 AM
Okay....so stupid question....What exactly is meant by going stealth?  It sounds like mainly hiding the fact that you are trans, either by omission (just not telling people), burying it (pretty much burying it away after passing full/fully transitioning, so no one finds out), or running incognito (presenting completely as male in public until the transition is "complete").  How close am I?  I want to put my two cents in here, but want to make sure I know what I'm talking about first.

Apparently, you are right in both of your interpretations. I discovered the term "stealth" being used on forums a few years ago, and realised it seemed to relate to my situation. I felt it was a handy shorthand for describing on here how I lived my life as a trans woman. However, there are some who use the term "stealth" to describe how they dress secretly, or don't talk to people about their need to transition, but live as a male. There may well be other variations.

But I think that the majority of posters on this thread are refering to living totally as female without revealing one's trans status.

Caroline
x

Quote from: Isabelle on May 26, 2014, 10:10:34 AM
True stealth would be virtually impossible unless you'd been diagnosed as a 3 year old.... People will out you. You need to have strategies for coping with this. It honestly feels like having the floor ripped out from under you. I recently found out a friend had outed me to some of her friends. My response was, to inform some of my friends that she suffers from herpes. I then casually mentioned to her that, I was discussing her herpes with some friends, and they were all shocked because she totaly didn't seem like the type to have it. She was horrified and devistated but eventually, the delicious irony dawned upon her.

My "friends" don't out me now.

Love it!
Caroline
x

Ravensong, stealth means being assumed to be cisgender by everyone, from friends and colleagues to strangers etc.
it's becoming an old fashioned term and like "passing" some believe it to hold offensive connotations.

Some people mistakenly refer to "stealth" meaning they're actually in the closet, or even more erroneously, that they are recreational ->-bleeped-<-s in private.
Language however, evolves in a democratic process. We're all entitled to ascribe our own meanings to words.

Judging by my experiences with the people around me in my area.... I will probably end up going stealth if the hormones deem me lucky enough to do so. I'm simply tired of everyone I know or strangers I meet saying things or implying the idea that "nothing I do will change that I was a man and will never be a "real" woman".

The idea that being a "real woman" down here is so prominent a belief in social situations just makes me wish for stealthness for be sake if not losing my mind.

I've pretty much made a hermit of myself because it's one thing for people to need time getting use to it, it's another thing entirely to be around people who will "always see you as who you were in both name and gender."

The fact that id merely be a "pseudo-female" around people is frustrating me to the point where living a normal girl life would require stealth because people are too stubborn to let go of conventional ideals for what is a man and what is a woman. I can't so much as say hi to people properly because of how skittish men get around me... It's ridiculous. It's almost like they expect me to bite them or eat them.

I'm constantly outed and it's left me with the desire to simply and socially "start over".

Also; what really gets to me the most is the whole "I remember one time othername.... Well I mean, back then you were othername" it's like "gee thanks for realizing you made a mistake after blatantly outing that I use to be male :D now everyone can linger on that little note and I can go about the rest of my night thinking about how everyone who might've thought I was cis female now only sees me as a man in a dress."

As proud in myself as I wanna be, and as unapologetic and unashamed as I am for being a transwoman, stealth seems to be the only way to salvage my patience reserves before they run psychotically dry.

I'm going to live as stealth as possible.  Obviously some people will know and I can't hide my past.  However, everyone that meets me from day one of fulltime and on will not need to know I'm trans.  Other than a potential romantic partner, I see no reason to tell anyone.   Personally, I don't want to be known as I transwoman.  I want to be seen as a girl and blend as best as I can.  That's my biggest hope that I can have.  I'm not sure if that's even possible though.  To be honest, I'm ashamed to be trans.  I shouldn't be nor should I care what others think, but I do  I believe going stealth would allow me to hide from those feelings and judgements.  At the same time, it's the reason why I'm not oing fulltime in June like I said.  I wait for the time to perfectly pass which will never exist.

Quote from: learningtolive on May 26, 2014, 11:43:25 AM
I'm going to live as stealth as possible.  Obviously some people will know and I can't hide my past.  However, everyone that meets me from day one of fulltime and on will not need to know I'm trans.  Other than a potential romantic partner, I see no reason to tell anyone.   Personally, I don't want to be known as I transwoman.  I want to be seen as a girl and blend as best as I can.  That's my biggest hope that I can have.  I'm not sure if that's even possible though.  To be honest, I'm ashamed to be trans.  I shouldn't be nor should I care what others think, but I do  I believe going stealth would allow me to hide from those feelings and judgements.  At the same time, it's the reason why I'm not oing fulltime in June like I said.  I wait for the time to perfectly pass which will never exist.

I guess I'm pretty different, I get a kick out of being trans. It's probably because I've lived so much life already it just doesn't make sense for me to worry about being stealth. Though when I'm all done up , I think I look pretty good

I'm another who thinks it's getting increasingly difficult to pull off pure stealth (starting over with absolutely no one knowing about your past) in the current computerized age. In any event, I had a wife, a job, and a family I didn't want to lose... so I transitioned in place. Oddly, as time goes by, fewer and fewer people know or remember the story anyway, so it's also working out that I'm kind of "stealth" to most people unless/until I come out, except without the anxiety about being outed.

I'll point out is it really worth not friending family on FB just to keep a stealth status? I think that's pretty self centered if someone thinks it is. To just disappear from people you love to go 100% stealth. I couldn't do it...


Allyda: Sounds like we're in agreement actually :D I said it was a big piece of the puzzle, not the whole thing.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on May 26, 2014, 12:33:18 PM
I'll point out is it really worth not friending family on FB just to keep a stealth status? I think that's pretty self centered if someone thinks it is. To just disappear from people you love to go 100% stealth. I couldn't do it...

Yeah, me neither.  I know people that have done this and I'm sure it was the best thing for them, but yeah, no.  Every person in my life that was amazing enough to be supportive, I love them for that, I would not turn my back on them.  I would not want to.  We need to surround ourselves with amazing people, when you find them, you have found a precious gem.

I think that erasing your past thing is an antiquated practice anyway, that was necessary decades ago, but good luck doing it now with the internet existing, and it is less necessary now anyway.  Most people do the sort of demi-stealth thing, where it's just kind of happens by accident, where everybody new you meet just assumes you were always a woman because why would they not, and you have no reason to tell them otherwise.  I think it works, but you have to understand you will be outed occasionally and it will be dramatic and you need to be able to deal with it with grace.

Quote from: Isabelle on May 26, 2014, 10:16:14 AM
Ravensong, stealth means being assumed to be cisgender by everyone, from friends and colleagues to strangers etc.
it's becoming an old fashioned term and like "passing" some believe it to hold offensive connotations.

Some people mistakenly refer to "stealth" meaning they're actually in the closet, or even more erroneously, that they are recreational ->-bleeped-<-s in private.
Language however, evolves in a democratic process. We're all entitled to ascribe our own meanings to words.

I respectfully disagree with your meanings of words.  Stealth is about your control over how you identify yourself, i.e. for MtF that means as a cis woman, not as a trans woman.  Being stealth is not about what others may perceive or wonder, or about 100% anonymity.  The idea that if some clerk in a basement changes your ender marker from M to F on your drivers license means you can't still be stealth is kind of ridiculous unless you plan to date that person.  Equating stealth MtF people as recreational ->-bleeped-<-s is an odd thing to say. 

If non-op or pre-op people tell you stealth is impossible, consider that they are trying to pass as women with male genitals and doing that is always difficult, especially if they are trying to live a complete life including the need to change cloths in public.

Quote from: Jen on May 26, 2014, 12:55:06 PM
Most people do the sort of demi-stealth thing, where it's just kind of happens by accident, where everybody new you meet just assumes you were always a woman because why would they not, and you have no reason to tell them otherwise.  I think it works, but you have to understand you will be outed occasionally and it will be dramatic and you need to be able to deal with it with grace.

I like that.  That is what I'm going to strive for, I think.  I'm still pre-hrt, so I know it will be a while before I am at the pseudo-stealth/demi-stealth level.

Quote from: Ducks on May 26, 2014, 01:03:41 PM
Equating stealth MtF people as recreational ->-bleeped-<-s is an odd thing to say. 

If I'm reading this correctly, it sounds like you misinterpreted what Isabelle said.  She said that some people *mistakenly* refer to stealth that way, not that she did.  Isabelle's description of stealth seems to be a lot like yours, she was just pointing out how *some* people use the term.  If I misinterpreted what you said, then please let me know, I'm just trying to understand, and don't want to come across as argumentative or anything.

In any case, thanks for all the input and help ya'll.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on May 26, 2014, 12:27:08 PM
I'm another who thinks it's getting increasingly difficult to pull off pure stealth (starting over with absolutely no one knowing about your past) in the current computerized age. In any event, I had a wife, a job, and a family I didn't want to lose... so I transitioned in place. Oddly, as time goes by, fewer and fewer people know or remember the story anyway, so it's also working out that I'm kind of "stealth" to most people unless/until I come out, except without the anxiety about being outed.

I know I'm repeating myself but I really must point out that stealth can never be 100% even in the days of old before computers.  For gosh sake, your mother knows, your therapist knows, your Dr. knows, etc., etc.. Just because someone on planet earth knows your past, doesn't mean you have to live 'out' and constantly out yourself to people.  Do you people who are openly trans really correct people who think you're cis? 

Quote from: Caroline2000 on May 26, 2014, 09:42:20 AM
I guess it concerns me a little – all this talk about it being impossible to live a stealth life with all the technology around. I transitioned at work in 1982 and the experience of being called a freak and various other nasty names by work colleagues didn't exactly fill me with delight. I could not wait to have my SRS and disappear.

After my SRS I applied for a job in London as Caroline. My then boss gave me a glowing reference without mentioning my trans status and I got the job. About two years later I applied for a much better job and got that, too. This time I changed my surname, just to dust over the tracks, so to speak.

It was at that job that I met the man who would go on to become my husband. He was married at the time, but I met him again years later after he had divorced and we decided to live together. I broke the news to him about my trans-status 6 months after we moved in together. The reason I did it was because I had two children who had accepted me as Caroline and I wanted to be able to see them again.

My revelation led to a tricky few weeks but we stayed together and he has been my rock ever since. We got married in 2006. None of his side of the family know my secret and neither do my four grandchildren. I'm happy with that.

As for bumping into somebody from my past. Yes, it has happened three or four times, but in each case they have not realised they knew me before. One actually joined as an IT specialist at the firm where I worked and I didn't recognise him because he had a common name and had put on some weight. It was only a few months later when he was talking about where he used to work that I realised we had been colleagues in my previous life.

Nothing happened and we carried on working together for several years until he was made redundant and I was promoted to head of the department. He had been a good worker, so I then decided to hire him on a contract to keep our computers running.

But the face from the past that really was a hoot was an engineer who came in to service a piece of equipment for the company. Minus his beard I didn't recognise him, but when he said his name, I recognised him immediately as someone I had worked with.

I had to explain to him what the problem was we were having with this piece of equipment. We were both in a small room where the equipment was kept, so time for a bit of small talk. I asked him where he had worked before. He mentioned several places including the one where we had both worked. He had been in charge of dealing with the post there and I knew him quite well at the time. But according to him he had been a chief executive in charge of major contracts. Lol

As we talked, I realised that he was actually flirting with me, which I found quite funny. I graciously declined his invitation to go out with him, saying my boyfriend wouldn't be happy.

Being in stealth has worked for me and I have never had any problems with getting jobs – and I have never had to leave a job because of my secret leaking out.

One day it might come back to bite me and I'll have to deal with that when it does. But I have had 30 years being in stealth – ok, so my children know about me, but I wouldn't want it any other way.


Caroline
x

Yes!  This is what living stealth is, girls.  Live your life fully as a woman, and deal with those situations that may arise with aplomb.  Well said, Caroline, and well lived!

Quote from: Ravensong on May 26, 2014, 01:21:12 PM
If I'm reading this correctly, it sounds like you misinterpreted what Isabelle said.  She said that some people *mistakenly* refer to stealth that way, not that she did.  Isabelle's description of stealth seems to be a lot like yours, she was just pointing out how *some* people use the term.  If I misinterpreted what you said, then please let me know, I'm just trying to understand, and don't want to come across as argumentative or anything.

I am saying that the word stealth isn't applied to one class of people, it is a verb not a noun.  I find it odd that anyone could think that the word stealth only means secret cross dressers.  It puts the idea of hiding your trans status into a category of 'dirty little secret' and I don't believe anyone should have to consider being trans anything a dirty secret (or as everybody's business).  I also think it is ridiculous to out yourself, it smacks of attention seeking to me... but that is my opinion only.  For sure anyone who wants to know about living "stealth" as a MtF trans woman should listen to those who have done it and not those who want to debate the impossibility of it.  That approach only makes people feel afraid, hopeless and alone.  There is nothing about surviving this ordeal and living well at the end of it that should make anyone feel ashamed or hopeless, rather it should be a reason for joy and satisfaction.

For those that say complete stealth is impossible, I would agree, but it may not be as hopeless as we think.  If the EU's right to be forgotten policy actually is enforced strongly, which I doubt, it will be easier to hide your past despite the Internets existence.  So if you move to a different area and do your best to clean up your history, you might have a shot.  Doubt it will happen like that, but who knows how the policy will be enforced.

Since I'm in the states, I've settled on the fact that some people are going to know.  However, I live in a state with a large population.  I see people all the time that I've never met before.  It makes things a bit easier and I know people that were able to live like 99% stealth without much issue; although, a lot of that matters on how private you were prior to your transition and how well you blend.  I've done too much volunteer and public work to have that luxery I fear, so improving my looks and hoping I'm not recognized is one of the only things I can do.   

Quote from: stephaniec on May 26, 2014, 11:55:35 AM
I guess I'm pretty different, I get a kick out of being trans. It's probably because I've lived so much life already it just doesn't make sense for me to worry about being stealth. Though when I'm all done up , I think I look pretty good

Yeah, I think experience may make a difference.  I've noticed those who transition over the age of 30 are less likely to care about what other people think and those of that are under it are terrified.  I guess we are still close to the high school conformity mentality.  Even at 25, I've yet to escape it. 

Quote from: learningtolive on May 26, 2014, 01:56:29 PM
Yeah, I think experience may make a difference.  I've noticed those who transition over the age of 30 are less likely to care about what other people think and those of that are under it are terrified.  I guess we are still close to the high school conformity mentality.  Even at 25, I've yet to escape it. 

I was 32, almost 33 when I started transitioning, and I definitely still cared what people think, and still do.  How people see me, how much I am liked, those kinds of things?  Idk if there is anything more important to me, even still.

Quote from: Jen on May 26, 2014, 02:05:59 PM
I was 32, almost 33 when I started transitioning, and I definitely still cared what people think, and still do.  How people see me, how much I am liked, those kinds of things?  Idk if there is anything more important to me, even still.

to me it's just a far more important issue to heal my self rather than worry if others don't see me totally as female or a perfect female or as one of the invisibles.

Personally I just tell people I'm female. I've never had a problem with it. However with the pictures I've taken, putting up a youtube video with like 100,000 views, and seeing as I'm not going to disable my FB page, it's pretty hard to stay stealth. But I couldn't care less. Take me as I am or leave me the heck alone. I've yet to have a problem with being gendered correctly since I left the school I transitioned at.

For me personally, I would just go with the situation.

For instance, anyone that matters to me, does/will know about my trans status, etc. I don't mind discussing the issues of my life, what my transition has been like and the like.

On the other hand, I won't be waving the trans flag at the fast food counter. I'll get my stuff and go. That is, unless, someone makes a problem for me, which I will happily solve using whatever I need to.

My life isn't black and white; it's ever changing hues of grey. I just do what I feel comfortable with and forget the rest.

For some of us, living stealth will not be a worthwhile solution. And for any individual, only time will tell whether it is possible. But for some of us it certainly is. 
There is a cost to be paid – especially the severing of relationships and relocating to a foreign place. Stealth can be lonely – until you develop a new set of friends. But then, I had always been lonely.
So why would I choose stealth?
Living stealth has allowed me to become the woman I am rather than the one that the people I know or society allowed me to be. And that is important to me -- the only solution to MY dysphoria.
I am able the answer the question "who am I" with far greater clarity and assuredness.
I was once a transsexual -- physically, mentally and emotionally – during an extended period in time called transition. But now I am a woman. Not a trans woman or cis woman, but a woman.
For me, only in this way has my transition become complete.

Quote from: Ducks on May 26, 2014, 01:44:11 PM
I am saying that the word stealth isn't applied to one class of people, it is a verb not a noun.  I find it odd that anyone could think that the word stealth only means secret cross dressers.  It puts the idea of hiding your trans status into a category of 'dirty little secret' and I don't believe anyone should have to consider being trans anything a dirty secret (or as everybody's business).  I also think it is ridiculous to out yourself, it smacks of attention seeking to me... but that is my opinion only.  For sure anyone who wants to know about living "stealth" as a MtF trans woman should listen to those who have done it and not those who want to debate the impossibility of it.  That approach only makes people feel afraid, hopeless and alone.  There is nothing about surviving this ordeal and living well at the end of it that should make anyone feel ashamed or hopeless, rather it should be a reason for joy and satisfaction.

Thanks for the clarification Ducks, I see exactly what you're saying now.  I agree that you can't be 100% stealth, since some people will know.  I just ant to be at a point where I can be myself and no one sees me different than what I am, regardless of how I was born/raised or who I was in the past.

Stealth will most likely never be an option for me unless I transition fully where I live then move away and change my legal name and start a new job. When I come out at work next month my status is going to spread like wildfire in the local communities and on the internet. But oh well, I'm proud of myself and feeling confident to tackle this new step in my life.

For those who can live stealth I am happy for them as it's one less issue they have to deal with on a daily basis.

It could be possible for me if I live another 100 years or so and everyone that knew me or would talk about me were gone. And throw in some kind of apocalypse that would wipe out all records, paper and electronic, then I'm golden! 

Quote from: Ravensong on May 26, 2014, 03:09:28 PM
Thanks for the clarification Ducks, I see exactly what you're saying now.  I agree that you can't be 100% stealth, since some people will know.  I just ant to be at a point where I can be myself and no one sees me different than what I am, regardless of how I was born/raised or who I was in the past.

Ravensong, I want the same thing!  I went stealth because I found I didn't like being around people who knew me in the past, because that made ME feel like I felt back then, even if they accepted me as a woman.  I transitioned and moved so I could build a new life for myself where I didn't have to be reminded about who I was and once I found my feet that way, I began to let selected people back into my life or come out to those I felt needed to know.  Pretty selfish of me, but then again, making me live a lie to keep them from having to change their view of me was selfish of them, too.  In the end we all have to do whatever works to keep us sane and happy.  For me it was turning the page and moving on to a new chapter, others may disagree, but it works for me so I'll stick with it. :)

Quote from: Ducks on May 26, 2014, 03:48:41 PM
Ravensong, I want the same thing!  I went stealth because I found I didn't like being around people who knew me in the past, because that made ME feel like I felt back then, even if they accepted me as a woman.  I transitioned and moved so I could build a new life for myself where I didn't have to be reminded about who I was and once I found my feet that way, I began to let selected people back into my life or come out to those I felt needed to know.  Pretty selfish of me, but then again, making me live a lie to keep them from having to change their view of me was selfish of them, too.  In the end we all have to do whatever works to keep us sane and happy.  For me it was turning the page and moving on to a new chapter, others may disagree, but it works for me so I'll stick with it. :)

moving away to another state like New Mexico would be the only realistic option for me to go stealth. I'm just too comfortable where I'm at.

We'll see how it goes for me.  I'm looking at moving back to my home area in a few months, if I can find a job there, where I am hoping to have a good support base in my friends from home and my family, though none of them know about my transition yet.  I am going to tell them when I go up to visit and see what kind of reaction I get (I haven't seen them for three years now).  Maybe I'll wait to move back there, if I do, when I'm capable of going full time.

My home area is a small town type area, the Shenandoah Valley, with a pretty decent "everybody knows everybody" situation, so that would make things rather interesting, and difficult to stealth it out.

Quote from: stephaniec on May 26, 2014, 02:45:03 PM
to me it's just a far more important issue to heal my self rather than worry if others don't see me totally as female or a perfect female or as one of the invisibles.

It is a total burden to be like I am, believe me.   Be grateful you can be that way :)

Quote from: Jen on May 26, 2014, 04:27:22 PM
It is a total burden to be like I am, believe me.   Be grateful you can be that way :)

I am grateful I doubt I could transition if I let that bother me.

Ducks, you missed my point entirely and essentially paraphrased me. I love the internet.

I don't really have any friends.  Not because I'm an a$$hole or anything like that.  I was actually really popular at one point, all throughout grade school, but then I sort of withdrew from depression/just not caring I guess.  Also, being part of the popular crowd, most of my friends felt making fun of others was a good past time; so I sort of separated myself from them.  It's not right for anybody to make fun of anyone else.  You never know what people are dealing with in private; why make things worse for someone?

I have a degree and I do work, but I don't have the best job and I really should move on.  Sooner or later I'll have to get a new job, as I really can't make a career out of the one I have.  I could get one where nobody knew me and I do want to move to another state.

I guess that I could maybe live stealth, and I'd like to achieve some level of stealth.  I really don't know if that's possible however, with my being 6'0" and athletic as hell.  Basically it's this; I'd tell people who became my friends, family would obviously know already, and coworkers, well, who knows whether I'd want to tell them.  I can say I'd like to be stealthy enough where I could walk down a street or go into a store without feeling like somebody was going to yell "freak" or something at me.  I'd like to be stealthy enough that if I told someone, they'd at least be a little surprised.  In other words, I'd like to pass to strangers and passer-byes.  If I got on hrt, had some surgeries and somehow came to realize that I could live stealth as a tall, athletic, cis looking woman then would I?  Like I said, to an extent.

Quote from: TheQuestion on May 26, 2014, 06:22:51 PM
I don't really have any friends.  Not because I'm an a$$hole or anything like that.  I was actually really popular at one point, all throughout grade school, but then I sort of withdrew from depression/just not caring I guess.  Also, being part of the popular crowd, most of my friends felt making fun of others was a good past time; so I sort of separated myself from them.  It's not right for anybody to make fun of anyone else.  You never know what people are dealing with in private; why make things worse for someone?

I have a degree and I do work, but I don't have the best job and I really should move on.  Sooner or later I'll have to get a new job, as I really can't make a career out of the one I have.  I could get one where nobody knew me and I do want to move to another state.

I guess that I could maybe live stealth, and I'd like to achieve some level of stealth.  I really don't know if that's possible however, with my being 6'0" and athletic as hell.  Basically it's this; I'd tell people who became my friends, family would obviously know already, and coworkers, well, who knows whether I'd want to tell them.  I can say I'd like to be stealthy enough where I could walk down a street or go into a store without feeling like somebody was going to yell "freak" or something at me.  I'd like to be stealthy enough that if I told someone, they'd at least be a little surprised.  In other words, I'd like to pass to strangers and passer-byes.  If I got on hrt, had some surgeries and somehow came to realize that I could live stealth as a tall, athletic, cis looking woman then would I?  Like I said, to an extent.

Ilive by a big University, there are quite a lot of tall athletic woman around

Why I Think stealth is counter praductive. (For me)

That need to be honest is a killer. The shame of hiding a part of who I am is what was pushing me over the edge.

For me, my transition is about being honest with myself and others. A lot of that means comming to terms that although I am a woman it is an XY woman.

I Also think that as people we need to feel loved. The love I got prior to comming out felt false. Felt they loved an act and not me.

Over time my dad is comming around. He still doesnt get it, but the other night he said goodnight darling. (somthing hes only ever called the female family)

He still often calles me by my old name, but recent happening go to show that to him I AM a duaghter he HAS alwas known as a son.

I Dont think I could ever feel as loved by anybody that doesnt accept me as an XY woman. I feel like hiding the nature of my birth from people would creat the same sence of false love. (that was pushing me over the edge)

Just as many people would say im not a real woman, I dont think I could see any body that doesnt know Im trans as a REAL friend.

I Dont adopt new behaviours to pass, I feel trying to pass as female is the same box a trying to pass as male to start with. I only want to be me.

I Know there is an element of safty envolved, but I fear stealth would make me the same risk to myself that transitioning is supposed to prevent.

And as long as we have REAL friends and REAL love that risk is greatly reduced. The only thing I need in adidtion to this is the love I have for myself.

I catch my self smieling in the mirror since I came out, And a lot of this is knowing that inspite of what I am, Im free to be who I am.

Despite of everything I hate about my self and society, I am PROUD to be trans. Im strong anough to face anything life throws at me, and happy knowing that should I die tomorrow, Ill die loved with REAL freinds knowing it will not be by my own hand.

This is what makes me happy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you ever feel like you're lying, you should absolutely stop doing whatever made you feel that way.  If being open and out and proud makes you feel the most comfortable, then that is perfect, and you should do that.  For me, I have never felt like I was lying when told somebody I was a woman.  I don't personally feel guilt or worry about my chromosomes.  I don't feel particularly proud (or ashamed) of being trans.  I do not consider that to be part of my identity, more like an obstacle I had to overcome.  For me, telling everybody in the world I am trans would make me extremely uncomfortable, just as not doing that does for you.  The reality is, we are all different and should not prescribe a one-size-fits-all approach and I feel like this highlights that very well.

Being who we are appears to be the common denominator in this thread. Some consider that being a total woman is who they must be and that the only way to achieve it is through stealth. Others consider honesty, advocacy of transgenered or devotion to loved ones who they are and have decided to act accordingly. In any case, folks have apparently done a great deal of soul searching, and each has chosen a path that, though difficult, is true to who they aspired to be. I commend you, one and all.

Quote from: Jen on May 26, 2014, 07:52:57 PM
If you ever feel like you're lying, you should absolutely stop doing whatever made you feel that way.  If being open and out and proud makes you feel the most comfortable, then that is perfect, and you should do that.  For me, I have never felt like I was lying when told somebody I was a woman.  I don't personally feel guilt or worry about my chromosomes.  I don't feel particularly proud (or ashamed) of being trans.  I do not consider that to be part of my identity, more like an obstacle I had to overcome.  For me, telling everybody in the world I am trans would make me extremely uncomfortable, just as not doing that does for you.  The reality is, we are all different and should not prescribe a one-size-fits-all approach and I feel like this highlights that very well.

As a point. 
My post is not intended to cause shame for stealth choosers.
Or to change how they feel about their freinds.

But more to show that my choice has everything to do with me as a person, and how I as that person looks at life.

And to sugest that I choose what I choose, not because it is right or wrong, but because it IS right FOR ME.

------------

PS I felt a need to further clarify, to prevent miss understanding.

I got where you were coming from, and I hope everybody else does too.  And I hope they understand where I was coming from too.  We all deal with this differently, the way we frame and contextualize everything we feel.  Nobody is wrong.  Therefore, we should let people deal with their stuff the way that works best for them and never tell anybody one way is more right than another.  Which you weren't doing and I hope nobody thinks I was doing either.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on May 26, 2014, 12:33:18 PM
Allyda: Sounds like we're in agreement actually :D I said it was a big piece of the puzzle, not the whole thing.

Yea I'm sorry I misread your post and got the wrong idea. As I said I'm pretty much in agreement with most things you post. I just made a mistake as this is a touchy subject.

While as I said I've always been honest with my SO's, and close friends, I must confess I do daydream about just disappearing after my SRS to somewhere no one knows me and start anew. I then realize it wouldn't work because I do have friends and a few family members who've been very supportive and do care about me. I wouldn't want to worry them like that for one, I'm very secure in my femininity for two, and I'm not ashamed of who I am.

Best wishes always!

Ally :icon_flower:

Quote from: Clare Manning on May 26, 2014, 08:16:15 PM
Being who we are appears to be the common denominator in this thread. Some consider that being a total woman is who they must be and that the only way to achieve it is through stealth. Others consider honesty, advocacy of transgenered or devotion to loved ones who they are and have decided to act accordingly. In any case, folks have apparently done a great deal of soul searching, and each has chosen a path that, though difficult, is true to who they aspired to be. I commend you, one and all.

Wisely said, Clare. I chose my path to be stealth and have no regrets. As many have said on here, nobody can be 100% stealth and I would agree with that.

I recently had a need to contact the Inland Revenue (tax) Office and knew that as soon as the person on the other end of the phone asked for my National Insurance number they would find it was locked and they would have to get someone higher up to unlock it temporarily to get the information they need and then relock it. They are too busy to look into the reason why it is locked so it no longer concerns me.

NI numbers are locked for a variety of reasons other than being trans, such as you are in a witness protection scheme, or my favourite one is you work for the Government. One clerk at a counter where this happened to me asked: "Has this happened before?" I replied: "Oh yeh!" to which she responded: "Oh, I bet you work for the Government!"

I replied: "I'm afraid I can't answer that."

The trick is to just be cool when these things happen. Don't panic!

Caroline
x

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on May 26, 2014, 12:33:18 PM
I'll point out is it really worth not friending family on FB just to keep a stealth status? I think that's pretty self centered if someone thinks it is. To just disappear from people you love to go 100% stealth. I couldn't do it...

I live as stealthily as I can under the circumstances. I couldn't have just moved away and start over because of responsibilities to help take care of my mom, but I wouldn't have left anyway. I have a lot of people I really love and care about and I'm like you, Alaina, I would have felt both deceitful and self-centered to just pack up and leave, so I decided to take my chances. Those closer to me I told very early on, and if they couldn't understand, I wasn't going to hold it against them, but I wasn't going to grovel for them either. I also told a few close friends and other family in e-mails and private messages over Facebook. I came out to the majority of my aunts, uncles, cousins and friends slowly on Facebook, first changing the spelling from Randy to Randi for about six weeks, which kind of gave some hint to most of them. Out of all my family and friends on Facebook, nobody except for one cantankerous aunt (I could use another, more colorful word for her) has ever called me by my old name or improperly gendered me, so that's been a win-win situation. I'm a heart on my sleeve woman, and with so many subconsciously feminine mannerisms and emotions throughout my life, and feminine facial features until my mid 40's, I don't think it was a tremendous shock to more than just a few. I live in stealth though, as much as I can, simply by not telling anyone I don't know that I'm TS. I've asked my friends and family not to divulge my status unless or until I give them permission. All I've ever wanted was to be a girl/woman, and the ever more relaxed laws and attitudes have done nothing to change that fact. And since I haven't been mis-gendered in more than 32 months (except for once by a seriously short, fat, jealous front office bitch at my doctor's office) I don't expect to face any problems passing in the future. You ladies will most likely notice in your futures that life and passing becomes easier the more you learn about makeup, clothes, voice, walk, mannerisms and other nuanced things that only time and becoming female can show you. Hugs, Mira

Quote from: Jen on May 26, 2014, 02:05:59 PM
I was 32, almost 33 when I started transitioning, and I definitely still cared what people think, and still do.  How people see me, how much I am liked, those kinds of things?  Idk if there is anything more important to me, even still.

O.O I saw pic of you the other day "I Think" and forgive me for making assumtions bases of how you looked but. I would of bett money you were no older then 22 now.

And yeah I care what people think about me too. but in alot of ways I think we all do. Even those who say they dont. ive been told I shouldnt care what people think about me anougth times to know that. Not caring what people think about you still tickes awesome boxes in the eyes of others.

No, never thought about it but it's not like I wear a say that says "transsexual" ether.

I still amaze people when I tell them I'm legally blind, and they had no idea.  I dont try to hide the fact, I'm just good at working with what I have.

Quote from: ButterflyVickster on May 27, 2014, 02:34:29 AM
O.O I saw pic of you the other day "I Think" and forgive me for making assumtions bases of how you looked but. I would of bett money you were no older then 22 now.

And yeah I care what people think about me too. but in alot of ways I think we all do. Even those who say they dont. ive been told I shouldnt care what people think about me anougth times to know that. Not caring what people think about you still tickes awesome boxes in the eyes of others.

Hehe I am young looking, for the time being :).  I am 38 now.

Quote from: Isabelle on May 26, 2014, 05:55:43 PM
Ducks, you missed my point entirely and essentially paraphrased me. I love the internet.

Stranger things have happened Isabelle - sorry for somehow misunderstanding what you were trying to get across.  I guess we're in agreement? 

there is nothing wrong with choosing to be out as trans full time, but be aware that the choice is more limiting than being stealth.  At least as stealth you can choose who knows, as an out person, everyone will know regardless of your desire for them to know.  It is just a fact of life that people talk and spread interesting gossip.

Quote from: ButterflyVickster on May 26, 2014, 07:23:08 PM

TRIGGER WARNING

Why I Think stealth is counter praductive. (For me)

That need to be honest is a killer. The shame of hiding a part of who I am is what was pushing me over the edge.

For me, my transition is about being honest with myself and others. A lot of that means comming to terms that although I am a woman it is an XY woman.

I Also think that as people we need to feel loved. The love I got prior to comming out felt false. Felt they loved an act and not me.

Over time my dad is comming around. He still doesnt get it, but the other night he said goodnight darling. (somthing hes only ever called the female family)

He still often calles me by my old name, but recent happening go to show that to him I AM a duaghter he HAS alwas known as a son.

I Dont think I could ever feel as loved by anybody that doesnt accept me as an XY woman. I feel like hiding the nature of my birth from people would creat the same sence of false love. (that was pushing me over the edge)

Just as many people would say im not a real woman, I dont think I could see any body that doesnt know Im trans as a REAL friend.

I Dont adopt new behaviours to pass, I feel trying to pass as female is the same box a trying to pass as male to start with. I only want to be me.

I Know there is an element of safty envolved, but I fear stealth would make me the same risk to myself that transitioning is supposed to prevent.

And as long as we have REAL friends and REAL love that risk is greatly reduced. The only thing I need in adidtion to this is the love I have for myself.

I catch my self smieling in the mirror since I came out, And a lot of this is knowing that inspite of what I am, Im free to be who I am.

Despite of everything I hate about my self and society, I am PROUD to be trans. Im strong anough to face anything life throws at me, and happy knowing that should I die tomorrow, Ill die loved with REAL freinds knowing it will not be by my own hand.

This is what makes me happy.

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WARNING OVER

I respect how you view your own situation and can understand if this is the way you wish to carry on; however, I think very differently.  The day that I'm not just a transgender woman and actually viewed as simply a woman would be the best day ever for me.  In order for that to ever happen, I'll likely have to keep this a secret.  Let's face it, once people know your trans, to them you are just a tranwoman rather than a woman.  It happens all the time, and I'd rather avoid having this remain an issue in my future.  Sadly though, I'm a bit ashamed and embarrassed about being trans.  I shouldn't be that way, but I sort of am.  I mean, I'm okay with you all knowing it because you can understand, but I don't want the whole world to see me as trans.  Then again, I guess it would be like I'm trying to hide my scarlet A for the rest of my life.  Maybe it's not a healthy mentality for me to embrace.

Being ashamed of a truth about yourself, especially for something you have no control over, is not healthy.  It has nothing to do with being stealth or not, but is just a barrier to of being kind to yourself, being proud of yourself, loving yourself.  I don't know how to tell you to let go of it, I wish I did, but I hope you can find a way.

I think living stealth is as personal preference as living out and open. My GF is a steatlth MTF and I am stealth in that I am MTF too but in the closet with the door open enough and the light on that it doesn't take a genious or rocket scientist to figure it out. Really there aren't a whole lot of people that even come close to rocket scientist or geniuses. ;D

But my whole deal is live your life the way you want. If you want and can be stealth, its your life. If you want to be open and an activist, definately you have my utmost respect. But I have always had a live nad let live attitude. I really have no right to tell someone what they should of or not. Or whther thye are right or wrong in those dicisions.

Quote from: Jen on May 27, 2014, 12:38:36 PM
Being ashamed of a truth about yourself, especially for something you have no control over, is not healthy.  It has nothing to do with being stealth or not, but is just a barrier to of being kind to yourself, being proud of yourself, loving yourself.  I don't know how to tell you to let go of it, I wish I did, but I hope you can find a way.

In my case, only time spent full-time while out and about will probably make me feel better about myself.  I think I have to see for my own eyes that the world isn't always bad as I fear.  And when I see it's not as bad and that people don't hate me so much, then it will become less of a barrier and I'll have more confidence.  It's just getting myself to let go so it becomes possible.  At least, this is the set of mind my therapist is trying to convince me of. 

But seriously, I don't want everyone to know about it.  I just don't think the "proud of who I am" mentality will ever be the way I see it.  Being trans is something that I'm going to have to cope with and learn to deal with as best as I can.  Sadly, letting everyone know that about me will only make coping harder because of discrimination and judgement.  The only area I'll ever be disclosing is with dating which sucks because it seems like most guys are unaccepting of us, at least for a serious relationship. 

Being proud of who you are actually has nothing to do with whether you tell people.  It's an internal thing.  The way I see it for myself is being trans is not my identity, it is a condition I was born with, that I have had to deal with and I am not ashamed, or proud, of being born this way.  I am proud of myself for finding the strength to deal with it though.  Shame gets in the way of inner-happiness.

I can tell I'm not being clear.  I don't know how to put it so it is.  Shame is not the reason i am stealth-ish,it's more that I don't think it is relevant inFo for many people to know.  Also that I don't want to be treated differently, and that I don't have the energy to carry a banner all the time.

Quote from: Jen on May 27, 2014, 01:27:44 PM
Being proud of who you are actually has nothing to do with whether you tell people.  It's an internal thing.  The way I see it for myself is being trans is not my identity, it is a condition I was born with, that I have had to deal with and I am not ashamed, or proud, of being born this way.  I am proud of myself for finding the strength to deal with it though.  Shame gets in the way of inner-happiness.

I can tell I'm not being clear.  I don't know how to put it so it is.  Shame is not the reason i am stealth-ish, that I don't think it is relevant is.  Also that I don't want to be treated differently, and that I don't have the energy to carry a banner all the time.

I definately understand you Jen.

Quote from: Jen on May 27, 2014, 01:27:44 PM
Being proud of who you are actually has nothing to do with whether you tell people.  It's an internal thing.  The way I see it for myself is being trans is not my identity, it is a condition I was born with, that I have had to deal with and I am not ashamed, or proud, of being born this way.  I am proud of myself for finding the strength to deal with it though.  Shame gets in the way of inner-happiness.

I can tell I'm not being clear.  I don't know how to put it so it is.  Shame is not the reason i am stealth-ish,it's more that I don't think it is relevant inFo for many people to know.  Also that I don't want to be treated differently, and that I don't have the energy to carry a banner all the time.

I get you as well, just having a hard time seeing it the same way.  Actually, I think we see it similarly with just a different twist.  I'm also proud of how far I've come and for having the strength to have made it this far.  However, other people and their negative opinions make me feel shame at times.  That's where we are different.  I think the more I positive experiences I have, the less I will fear or care I will have about what others think.  But as of right now, I don't want people in my future to know because I'm scared they will hate me or view me negatively or at least different than other girls.  I suppose there is an inner pride quality I have, but it gets destroyed or conquered quite easily when it's put up against judgmental people.  They sort of have the ability to control my feelings and emotions.  I guess what you are saying is that stealth should be more of a practical thing than it should be about hiding or fear nor should you let them control you.  I think that's a healthy thing and wish to get there one day.  For me it's a plan to strive for both practicality and to hide from all the pain someone could cause me, including inner emotional pain, by seeing me as trans.

But again, I'm speaking less from experience and more from internal fears.  I've only been laughed at and called a ->-bleeped-<- once in my life and had one old person say "eww" when looking at me.  Otherwise, my experiences have been fairly normal like any other person and most people seem supportive or nice.  Well, other than a few weird looks here and there.  I don't know. I just don't know what it's all going to be like once I go full-time.  It's all I can think about, yet I'm depressed as hell because I'm not allowing myself any sense of happiness in my life.  Well, summers coming and I keep working hard on my appearance, so it has to happen sometime soon.   

Yes, I know you have had some rough experiences so far, and not many good ones to offset them, so I can see why you have your frame of mind.  i hope you start having some affirming experiences soon.

For me, when I am outed, yes it is not shame I feel, it's fear–of physical harm and, equally, of being treated differently.  I wish I could sever my relationship with fear sometimes, I feel like I am under it's control far too much.  But I also do feel it is easier to handle yourself with grace when you feel fear than when you feel shame.  Grace and shame I think may be mutually exclusive.

Quote from: AnnieMay on May 25, 2014, 08:07:32 PM
Have you seriously considered a stealth life style? What are the reasons for your decision?

When I 1st admitted to myself that I am a trans*woman, I decided to go 'stealth-ish'. I moved 3 hrs away from everyone I knew, and told myself, "when I get there, I'll start living as a woman. #FAIL
I move to the lake of the ozarks and was introduce to some room-mates and neighbors as a male. I instantly froze my transition. So, for the last 5 months, I stayed living as a male.
I guess my bi/fem side shines thru tho, because 1 of the room-mates and 1 of the neighbors have asked me several times if i was/am bisexual/gay or even a crossdresser.
my answer was/is always, "What's it matter if I am, or not? Does that change who I am, or our friendship?"
over the last few weeks, i have shut down my 'male' facebook and meetme accounts and have came out from under the shadows as Madison.
I wrote an email to my best friend since 6th grade,  (he responded wonderfully) and texted with my cousin, (who has also been wonderful).
slowly I'm allowing people from my past to find my new fb page and decide to make contact or not. i've had several ppl msg me with"do i know you?" and i tell them..
Being honest with myself, and others i call "friends" is hard for me because of things in my past, but to me, i feel like it's a big part of my transition.

I still have not told my parents, but we're not close, so that's not high on my list of priorities..

for me.. i just can't live the lie anymore..

being 'Matt' and being 'Madison' was too much..

Quote from: learningtolive on May 27, 2014, 01:07:40 PM
But seriously, I don't want everyone to know about it.  I just don't think the "proud of who I am" mentality will ever be the way I see it.  Being trans is something that I'm going to have to cope with and learn to deal with as best as I can.

I dont want everybody to know it either.
Being proud (for me) isnt about being brave anougth to advatise it.

When I say im proud about being trans i mean, the kind of person i am because of it.
We all have to cope with it in different ways.
For jen its an obstical of a birth defect (sorta)
For me its about using it to show people that know me, that im not like the negative iimage we get.
To be honest if it wasnt for all the negative portrayal id live like jen. because it is just an obstcle to be overcome.
Its just i want to make it less of a struggle. And work towards society being less dangarouse if descovered.
And since how society views us is the bigger part of the struggle. I can only help with how society sees me.

The troubble is, as trans its not a choice between stealth or no stealth. It a series of choices we make in order to live as comfatable as possible. in this regard stealth or not we all do the same.

Its not about WHAT, alaways the WHY.

I think one of the advantages of stealth is not just how people treat you face-to-face, but what is said about you when you're not present. I remember many years ago attending a funeral for an in-law's husband. The hub-bub during the wake was whether the deceased's transsexual sister would attend, what she looked like, etc., etc. The conversation continued throughout the wake, primarily by females in their 20s and 30s whom I had expected to be more open and accepting of transsexualism. For many years, this experience has caused me to reconsider both my own transition and the whole issue of living stealth.