Susan's Place Transgender Resources

...and now I am getting my butt kicked by dysphoria.

To recap, earlier this year I had the money and motivation to get myself some therapy for the first time in my life and it helped me come to terms with all those feelings I have had most of my life. I want to be female and it is a desire that has caused me pain and grief in ways I am unable to adequately describe to those around me. I eventually realized those negative feelings are what some call dysphoria.

The thing is when I came to this realization, and that my only chance at coming closer to what/who I want to be and shedding the dysphoria was to transition, it was at a time when I had met and started dating the love of my life. After some time and a lot of effort on my part and patience and support on hers I came out to her one weekend. We had quite a rocky road (we told our story on another part of this very site) and while we were both determined to stay together I realized that if I took steps towards transitioning it would mean the slow and painful death of the only relationship I have ever had and the one I want to last the dest of my life. It would also mean I would never be able to start a family with her as I cannot afford to bank the sperm it would take to guarantee the family we often dream of having. I was at a crossroads, one path leading to transition and perhaps some peace from the dysphoria and an existance more like the one I've yearned for since I was young, but also solitude and loneliness... and the other path, life as a loving husband and father with the family and home life I want but also plagued by dysphoria for the rest of my days. I eventually chose the latter. I just couldnt't give up the lady I love and the children we have yet to give life to.

My problem now... and I'm hoping some people can chip in with some helpful advice here... how am I going to cope with the desire to be female and the crappy feelings that go along with not being female? The yearning, depression, severe envy of all women, etc. You know what they are and feel like I would bet. I suffer from them off and on. This summer wasn't too bad but so far this fall has been terrible. I spend my free time reading everything I can from trans people talking about their experiences and looking at photo timelines of people making wonderful transformations into totally passable, and more importantly, happy people. I have gone back to occasional private crossdressing which my girlfriend knows about and is ok with, though at this point in time neither of us are totally comfortable with me being dressed around her which is a problem since we've been living together for months now. The dressing when I can manage it helps but it is too little and too infrequent. I need other ideas for dealing with the dysphoria.
Does anyone have any advice? Or know of anyone who has made the same choice as me and managed to stick by it and have a happy life? I could use some success stories to help me be sure I can make it.

As someone who once came close to transitioning and then chose not to, the only thing that really worked was finding something to totally preoccupy me and to not have a single thing to do with anything remotely trans. It worked for a while but obviously didn't stick!

Quote from: Ms Grace on October 13, 2015, 04:36:25 AM
As someone who once came close to transitioning and then chose not to, the only thing that really worked was finding something to totally preoccupy me and to not have a single thing to do with anything remotely trans. It worked for a while but obviously didn't stick!

You know I have noticed that the times when I am busy with something else are the easiest. I actually feel comfortable since I'm not thinking about all that crap. One thing I have going for me is that I don't have overly strong negative feelings towards being seen as male or my body even, unless I am in some kind of female headspace... then it is quite the opposite case :P But I suppose more distractions would help. The only problem there is I am a night shift security guard so I end up having quite a lot of time when there isn't much for me to think about other than what happens to be on my mind, and you can guess what that is :P And it is hard to avoid all things related to ->-bleeped-<- because I have an aunt who came out of the closet a few years ago who I hear about frequently. I am pretty proud of her. She is basically taking on the government legally here in Canada to fight for more equal treatment for trans people when it comes to healthcare. So whether I try to avoid it or not I the topic of trans people and issues will be popping up here and there :P

Hi Amy,

First of all, congratulations on meeting your true love.  That is a gift not everyone will receive in their lifetime.  The fact that she is so supportive of you makes it a double blessing.

On to your conundrum.  I am in a much different point in my life, and I can only pass along my experience, but perhaps it will give you an option.  Just to give you some background, I decided to transition, or at least explore that option, after 15 years of marriage and two children. My wife wants nothing to do with it (we are separated).  I am terrified my children will reject time if I come out to them.   Yet, I have been tormented with an unrelenting desire to be female since I was a child.  I finally decided it was time for me. I am 58, nearing retirement, and want to be happy in my remaining years.

I started seeing a therapist, and started laser/electrolysis.  I let my hair grow, and got my ears pierced (that was the scariest part of all, worrying about what people would think!). Each little step gave me more courage.  After a year or so, I decided to start hormone therapy.  I have been on hormones about three months now.

Here is the part that may interest you:  After a few days on low-dose estrogen, my dysphoria started to disappear. I was no longer obsessed with being female.  I felt more complete, and happier with myself.  I have to disclose that my libido is near zero, too, but I am now on a transition dose of hormones.

I guess my point is this is not an either/or decision.  It is possible you may able to find a happy medium, keep your girlfriend, and also be comfortable with who you are.  As someone else on the site said, "There are many ways to be transgender."

I hope that helped.

Terri

Your story is similar in many ways to mine when I was younger.  Like Grace said, staying occupied with something, to the point of near OCD, helps. 

What happened to me though was I would go through cycles and the low point at each cycle was lower and longer than the one before.  Finally, although it did take a long time, I reached a low point that felt like complete crushing hopelessness.

I wish I had something more hopeful to offer but if there is a permanent self-fix out there I wasn't able to find it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Amy, I am walking that same tightrope myself, but farther along.  My wife of 15 years loves me and is okay with me being transgender and dressing in private.  Her youngest brother is gay, she has a half sister who is MTF transgender, and her best friend is a very flamboyant gay makeup artist.

However, my wife is very worried about my income and career (self employed attorney) and she will not let me come out in public.

I love her and do not want to lose her, so for now I live like Rappaccini's Daughter, confined to the house and walled gardens when being my true self.

Therapy and low dose hormones are in my near term future, but beyond that, the only way I can go farther is to somehow assure my career and income stream first.  It is unfortunate, but it is what it is.

I have my stealthy little things I do, like shaving off body hair, eyebrow sculpting, nail polish on the toes, wearing Jockey women's panties under my clothes when I am out in the world.  And then there is the fun of shopping for clothes.  I carry pink roller pens with the support breast cancer logo.  I got an aqua colored cell phone case to match the aqua color of some of my favorite Hollister and Aeropostale women's tops.

I have always been an optimist, finding joy in every little positive thing I can do.  And if I have to become Carly one little piece at a time, then that is just what I will do.

Believe me, I feel your pain.

I'm afraid my advice, both as a very young age transitioner and now in later life trainee doctor is that this condition is not one that you can really fight. Basically you have two options, give in gracefully, and find some sort of peace beyond transition, or fight it for a time only to cave in later in life and possibly full of regrets.

That may seem stark but its been true for literally 100% of the many hundreds of trans people that I know. I've never yet met anyone who can look me in the and convince me that they are happy and have fought this off. Then again I'm not infallible and its your life path to choose. I can only speak from my own limited experience which leads me to believe that non transitioning usually means "not yet transitioning". Like I say - only my perspective - and you must be free to make your own evaluation.

I decided too not transition at the age of 17 when I met my future wife,after a 5 yr. separation I told her I was a cross dresser,she was ok with that, but I wasn't, after 11 yrs of secret dressing, it all blew up, I confessed to my wife what was wrong, she is ok with me dressing as long as I don't do hormones or transition, I'm fine with that. In Dec we will be married 27 yrs. and had 3 kids and I wouldn't change anything, but the thing that works for us is we do it together, she helps with my makeup and finding clothes for me that actually look good on me. I love my wife and my life.

My suggestion may not prove helpful. When I transitioned, blockers weren't available and HRT didn't shut down the urges I felt so more or less I was cross living with a somewhat male hormone balance. I ended up with a 2 year RLE and and when the time came for surgery, I felt I could have lived without surgery had it not been available to me. There are people who are comfortable living in the opposite role without surgery. You may also decide after starting a family to go on blockers but not hormones which would help your mind without altering your body. There is no single right answer to your problem, only what you find to be an acceptable solution.

When I was at a similar decision point in my life, I chose to try to be "normal".  I have faked it for 15 years or so, more or less successfully, but it is killing me inside.  I don't see any alternatives at this point except to carry on now with more of the same. 

My advice would be to spare yourself the agony and be who you are.  The dysphoria won't go away.

It's pretty common to find that estrogen makes the dysphoria much less severe, sometimes it disappears nearly completely.  People think they are "cured" and discontinue the estrogen and the dysphoria comes back.

It's a really strange paradox.  Now that I have a very feminine looking body, I find that I don't really mind being male. I wouldn't mind being female either. Gender and Sex just don't seem that important.  Estrogen has profound effects on the body, but the greatest change is in the mind.

This article by MTF psychologist Anne Vitale explains what happened in some cases:

http://www.avitale.com/TNote15Testosterone.htm

Quote from: Maybebaby56 on October 13, 2015, 05:50:16 AM
Here is the part that may interest you:  After a few days on low-dose estrogen, my dysphoria started to disappear. I was no longer obsessed with being female.  I felt more complete, and happier with myself.  I have to disclose that my libido is near zero, too, but I am now on a transition dose of hormones.

Amy,
Welcome to my life.  I'm a giant massive man that has lived with the dysphoria my entire life.  From experience, be the woman inside the mans body if that makes sense.  Be kind sensitive and connected.  Do feminine things like shaving your legs, if your SO doesn't like to see you in women's undergarments or dress femme, wear silk boxers, use clear mascara, chap stick for soft supple lips, exfoliate your skin, apply lotion, take long hot baths with candles, get massages, file your nails etc.  I carry a nice leather satchel instead of a wallet. It's more like a purse.  All of this doesn't fix the dysphoria, but it does help keep you more femme feeling which quells the dysphoria.  I've abandoned all of this in the past to embrace my manhood and attempt to snuff the feminine side.  I've discovered that trying to destroy the feminine side is to destroy myself.  So I'm back on eating good food and doing all of the things I've listed.  I hope this helps. :)

Quote from: Ms Grace on October 13, 2015, 04:36:25 AM
As someone who once came close to transitioning and then chose not to, the only thing that really worked was finding something to totally preoccupy me and to not have a single thing to do with anything remotely trans. It worked for a while but obviously didn't stick!

What I call the 3Ds. Diversions, Distractions and Denial.

I gave up on Denial, AGAIN, 6 years ago and took on the trans beast for real. Prior to that, aside from the 3Ds, I relied on the occasional "Escape" from maleness by cross-dressing. Something my wife also knew about and was uncomfortably supportive of. BTW-her being around on those days also was a total buzz-kill in the romance department for days afterwards thanks to the image of Joanne fresh in her mind.

Six years ago any sort of transition was the absolute last thing on any To-Do list. Been there, tried it twice decades earlier. Job number one was to figure out some way to get these two great aspects of myself to live together at peace inside of me. To shed a lot of the baggage and bad habits that came from NOT handling being trans in a healthier way. The closest support of any kind was 90 miles away. A TG support group which in time led to a T-friendly therapist.

The slow painfull process of healing, of finding peace begun. Thirty years of slowly turning into a miserable, depressed, and angry person began turning around. Much to my wife's joy. Still, dropping the T-Bomb left a lot more damage in its wake that has taken years to put behind us, for the most part.

Again, like Ms Grace, the 3Ds did not stick. The path to self acceptance, to peace, to finding joy, also led to other unexpected and unwanted (at the time) changes.

Unlike Ms Grace, I still live and present primarily as male. For several years I had the opportunity to do otherwise, living part-time as female. I realized my life-long dream of being seen as and accepted as a woman (in a small way).

I struggle daily maintaining a balance between all the conflicting needs and wants in my life. As does my wife. 

The only solution is to come out and be happy.  To destroy yourself to make someone else happy in order to cling to liveing in a sad Co dependant spiral that really just wastes years of both your lives.

I have read this same sad tale thread after thread.  This Co dependant fence  sitting has got to be the saddest trans narrative going.

Be out be proud there is no other solution.

this is a rough situation and im sorry that there is no easy answer. i can say that i wasnt able to live with the dysphoria and i had to start transitioning, but everyone is different

i think the advice someone else gave of exploring more feminine-ish types of expressions and accessiories might help. try being a pretty boy. get your eyebrows done (in a clean but not femme-y way), wear fitted clothes, try to smell nice, use nice lotions to make your skin soft, get a nice longer (for a guy) hairstyle, file your nails, get some cute accessory items, get your ears pierced (lots of guys do that), maybe even get a nostril piercing (i did this and it made me feel a lot more feminine, even though ive seen guys with them).

i cant say that these things will make your dysphoria go away, but theyll be non-outing, non-medical forms of expressing femininity, and honestly itll probably make u look rly cute. and maybe itll make you want to transition even more, but maybe itll make you fine with where you are, or at least help you cope. i have no idea, but you might as well try if youve got nothing to lose

I am in a similar situation.  I decided not to transition medically for personal and practical reasons.  But gaygirl420 said some things that I do to help out.

Quote from: gaygirl420 on October 21, 2015, 11:46:41 AM
i think the advice someone else gave of exploring more feminine-ish types of expressions and accessiories might help. try being a pretty boy. get your eyebrows done (in a clean but not femme-y way), wear fitted clothes, try to smell nice, use nice lotions to make your skin soft, get a nice longer (for a guy) hairstyle, file your nails, get some cute accessory items, get your ears pierced (lots of guys do that), maybe even get a nostril piercing (i did this and it made me feel a lot more feminine, even though ive seen guys with them).

Try some of those things out and see how you like doing them.  I found doing my nails, smelling nice, shaving my body hair, putting perfumed lotions on my skin especially my legs made me feel more feminine.  To other people it may not seem that way but to me I really like doing it and makes me feel good which helps dampen the dysphoria.  I would suggest keeping an open mind toward these things.  Don't do them because they are things that females do, but to try it out to see if you like it and how it makes you feel. 

What also helped me is realizing the triggers for my dysphoria and trying to avoid them.  Try to find things not so much as a distraction but make you feel good about yourself. 

Also realize that you are not alone.  It is hard to do in the transgender community when the overwhelming voice in it is about transitioning.  I know for me it tends to make me resentful of the ones that do transition if I let it.  That is why sometimes I have to withdraw before it gets too bad and I lash out.  But try to find people who accept your decision and are supportive to be your support network and you can be the same to them.

What also helps me is realizing that I am not alone in the bigger picture.  That everyone at some level has some part of themselves or their lives that they wish they could change but cannot for some reason.  That they have to deal with the disappointment and negative feelings that comes with that. Ours is gender but someone else could be something else entirely.  In a sense we are all in the same boat just why we are there changes from one person to the next.

I don't think any of these things will completely erase the feelings of dysphoria.  if anything just moderate it to the point that I can live with it.  Maybe for you in whatever way works can reach that point.  I wish you all the best and hope that it works out for you :)

It's a narrative you'll hear again, and again, and again. The dysphoria will not go away. It may even get worse.

Doing "nothing" won't work. Fighting against dysphoria makes it stronger. So much of our energy goes toward (or against it) that at times it felt like the dysphoria is the strongest, sometimes the only, thing in my mind. Distraction is just as much energy spent on dysphoria, energy spent feeding it.

It's such a powerful thing, so overwhelming, that we so often forget we have gender euphoria too, and it's just as much a part of us as the dysphoria. There are things about being trans that will elate you, things that validate your true gender. Find those, seize and own enough of them and step by step, little by little, we can own both, rather than being overwhelmed by dysphoria. The key is balance.

If your goal is the elimination of dysphoria, everybody here is right, you won't find it. But it doesn't have to disappear for you to be emotionally healthy.

When I found enough of my gender presentation to control the euphoria too, I found a balance where it doesn't overwhelm me, even if it doesn't go away. Possibly I could feel even better if I went "all the way," but there's a lot of reasons I am not willing or able to do so. I have found enough of the balance of both that I am comfortable with who I am. I hope you can too, it's definitely not easy, but neither is transition. And neither are even close to "nothing".

For the love of all that is holy, don't fight it, don't suppress it, don't ignore it. It's a part of us, and does not want to be denied. If we own it, we have a chance. Maybe.

Don't keep it inside. It does want out, but that doesn't have to mean full blown transition, or even HRT, if it's not something you feel you truly need. Only you can truly know. People here are great to talk to, even when some of us walk a very different path.

   I want to thank everyone who offered feedback in this thread, whether it was the kind of response I was hoping to hear or not. I have asked this type of question before and the overwhelming response is always that sooner or later dysphoria will overwhelm me and I will have to do something. I know this is the case with most transgender people who supress their feelings to live a normal life but I have to hold out hope that I have what it takes to get by in the hard times. If I do anything further than occasional private dressing, as in come out or start hormones, I will end up losing my girlfriend (the woman I plan to marry in the not so distant future) and my chance at having the family with her that I want more than anything. So the plan is to strive on and weather the storm using tricks like distractions and private dressing and occasional bouts of body hair removal (as hard as it is with these manly hormones of mine :/). I hope I have the strength to hold it off indefinately, but every time I hear a story of someone who failed and had to transition anyways scares me. It is my hope that there are a decent number of people who are successful in non-transitioning and therefore don't spend time on support sites such as these to provide their experiences. Maybe my dysphoria won't get worse. Maybe I am not as bad off as most people you hear about. I have to hope for something like this, because I won't give up the wife and family I want. I won't give up my future without one hell of a fight.

It is about finding a balance and believe it or not, working with a good therapist can be very helpful.  Each of us has a different set of coping mechanisms that we have used to varying degrees of success.  When it became obvious that my birth sex would not win out, I began to search out a balance to get me through to a time when I could transition.

Over the course of a few decades, direction has solidified and I know what I want and what I need.  I honestly believe that 'transition" is a journey and not just a process.  Discovering you is a huge step, learning where you will go with it is just another step and choosing to make things happen is another.  For me, never was it a race.  This year found me in a very different place than I have ever been and as life evolved...the decision was made.  Do not beat yourself up over thinking it, but accept each phase for what it is.  A learning experience and building block to self realization and expression.

I guess maybe I can chime in as the old lady.  When we married, I was 20 and Miss Dee was 18.  I did explain to her about being trangender shortly after we became engaged and, there was the mandatory, "You'll quit that after we're married," to which I agreed.  A few years of sleepless nights, depression and sneaking into her closet it when she wasn't home.  So then it was, "OK let's get you some things but I don't ever want to see it."  A few more years went by and gradually she thawed to the point of attending Southern Comfort Conference with me.  She loved the formal events at conferences where we both got to wear evening gowns.  I should mention our son was born when she was 19 and around age 25 Miss Dee started having some health problems that have never gone away.  Basically would never have been able to survive without me.  Over the years I don't think she realized how much I was hurting until one night about 15 or 16 years ago when we were talking actually about someone we knew here at Susan's and her transition progress.  All of a sudden I started crying and I'm not talking about a tear or two dripping down.  I'm talking about falling over on the bed bawling my eyes out and trying to explain how much emotional pain I was in.  That's when she finally understood what what I felt inside.  It still hits me occasionally as late as last week and I get a little down.  That's one of the reasons I signed back up here.  I'm going to tell you it will be hard.  There was once when I had my RoadRunner well over 120 mph on the Interstate, seat belt off and wondering if it would hurt when I hit the bridge abutment.   But I thought of how will she and our son live if I do this.  Obviously I didn't.  Anyway, this past June 7th was our 45th anniversary.  She's still the love of my life and my best friend.  It's hard but it can be done.

Bev

Thank you for sharing your story, Bev. It was helpful and I appreciate it :)

Quote from: Oliviah on October 18, 2015, 10:47:14 AM
The only solution is to come out and be happy.  To destroy yourself to make someone else happy in order to cling to liveing in a sad Co dependant spiral that really just wastes years of both your lives.

I have read this same sad tale thread after thread.  This Co dependant fence  sitting has got to be the saddest trans narrative going.

Be out be proud there is no other solution.

There's a lot of truth to that. For some, it will get to the point where you can't hide from yourself anymore. The true self wants to emerge and she won't listen to reason either and she shouldn't. At 53, I find I can't handle hiding it as well. The armor/beard/cloak (beard as a reference to a lavender marriage) cannot be maintained anymore. It's like a weight on my back that is trying to bury me. If someone can't or won't allow you to be your true self, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_self_and_false_self) then may be you are better off without them in the long run, as painful as that is or would be. Look up Donald Winnicott. He was the first to really identify what I think is the root of all addiction and anti-social problems in our society and that is that people can't be themselves, their true selves. In the case of trans people, it's in the extreme. Living a lie sucks.

Quote from: Amy85 on November 05, 2015, 05:18:14 AM
   I want to thank everyone who offered feedback in this thread, whether it was the kind of response I was hoping to hear or not. I have asked this type of question before and the overwhelming response is always that sooner or later dysphoria will overwhelm me and I will have to do something. I know this is the case with most transgender people who supress their feelings to live a normal life but I have to hold out hope that I have what it takes to get by in the hard times. If I do anything further than occasional private dressing, as in come out or start hormones, I will end up losing my girlfriend (the woman I plan to marry in the not so distant future) and my chance at having the family with her that I want more than anything. So the plan is to strive on and weather the storm using tricks like distractions and private dressing and occasional bouts of body hair removal (as hard as it is with these manly hormones of mine :/). I hope I have the strength to hold it off indefinately, but every time I hear a story of someone who failed and had to transition anyways scares me. It is my hope that there are a decent number of people who are successful in non-transitioning and therefore don't spend time on support sites such as these to provide their experiences. Maybe my dysphoria won't get worse. Maybe I am not as bad off as most people you hear about. I have to hope for something like this, because I won't give up the wife and family I want. I won't give up my future without one hell of a fight.

Oh, buddy/sweetie whatever,
I'm right there too. Please know your future is YOUR future. I just acknowledged that to my wife last night, by coming out. I will most likely continue to present as M but the future will be what it is. You will make it so. I'm scared shirtless too...
TG doesn't mean suddenly you're 100% F so ease into it?! My plan, at least!
How do you know you will lose her?
GD doesn't "get worse." It is, or isn't.
Hang in there, and to thine own self be true. Only took me a couple of decades.
Best wishes

Quote from: mickey.megan on December 17, 2015, 01:25:59 PM
This made me cry but its true. I'm in this situation now.  I want to come out, but don't want to destroy my wife, family, relationships, upset my kids, sell house, divorce. Right nwo I try to do the 3D's as mentioned above and stay busy, though everything I see reminds me I want to be whole. Some days its easy thanks to 3D's but other days... not so easy. I have lots of time  on my hands today, so its a Not so easy day.

It sucks destroying your life for sure. 

Quote from: mickey.megan on December 17, 2015, 01:25:59 PM
This made me cry but its true. I'm in this situation now.  I want to come out, but don't want to destroy my wife, family, relationships, upset my kids, sell house, divorce. Right nwo I try to do the 3D's as mentioned above and stay busy, though everything I see reminds me I want to be whole. Some days its easy thanks to 3D's but other days... not so easy. I have lots of time  on my hands today, so its a Not so easy day.

I'm there too!  Not sure whether to pursue transitioning or not.  I WANT to, but I want my wife and kids and I know I'll lose her, she's said as much.  The kids, I don't know but fear the worst.

As others have suggested, keeping busy is the best possible way to fight off dysphoria; for me that meant lots of work, working out, and time on hobbies such as cars. Ultimately however it wasn't enough, and I have since transitioned.

Allow me to give you some advice though, because if you're anything like me, and most trans people I would imagine, the dysphoria simply won't end, and will not just disappear. Putting your life on hold and putting aside your feelings for the sake of a relationship is NOT healthy. At the end of the day, a relationship is about loving and supporting each other for the people you both truly are, and if someone in the relationship is sacrificing a large part of themselves just to maintain the relationship, it simply won't end well. I've learned that from experience. I've also learned that the world is vast, and with 7 billion people on it, you will certainly find the right person that will accept you wholly, and you will be thankful for that.

Quote from: Oliviah on December 17, 2015, 01:45:37 PM
It sucks destroying your life for sure.

As both my wife and therapist CONSTANTLY reminded me... "Who appointed you God?"

TBH - I have a very poor track record on predicting the future (or possible futures) for me, myself, much less success in actually being able to control the future. Perhaps my arrogance born out of mostly accurate predictions of "We're Doomed" in work situations?

This week my therapist and I were talking about past and future, the good parts, the bad ones, and scary ones. One thing I had to say that I still find amazing is how back almost seven years with my world in Slo-Mo explosion mode between loosing my job as VP of Engineering, almost total friction between my wife and I, Her health starting it's collapse, no job prospects at all due to the economy in free fall, eventually finding a position some 350 miles away essentially having to sell my soul to the devil since it was an industry I am very uncomfortable working in, and totally alone isolated, too much free time on my hands both in and out of work where even there running at 10% capacity I was 3 steps ahead of "The Team" during our hours of useless meetings. All this eventually leading to the GD totally consuming me as the root cause for pretty much all the major disasters of my life because of how I was Not Handling it, as in the 3Ds. Never had I even dreamed or could possibly imagine what life is like today. All the positive things that have happened. How much better and happier of a person I am. A person that actually knows what joy is along with the entire spectrum of human emotions.

Six years ago after dropping the T-Bomb my world did end as I knew it. Thankfully that world ended.

The world I reside in now is far from ideal but whose is? I would love to be full-time to feel 100% genuine. The risk to the 'Us' (since my wife is still along for this roller-coaster ride) is too high between her health and our current financial situation. Thankfully I do Need to go full time to survive between HRT (apparently very important for my emotional health) my TG support group, working back in a totally fun and always challenging job (OK some to maybe too many D's?), back 'home' living with my wife who is supportive to a point, loves me more then ever before thanks to all the personal growth I've undergone while becoming a 'Real' person, and being able to look in the mirror every morning and seeing Joanne glowing back. I dread the days when all I can see is "The Sad Old Man" no matter what my presentation is.

Amy, I cried after reading your story.  I truly hope you can find a way through this maze.  I found many of the responses here helpful, I also found this related thread (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,200937.0.html) helpful.

Quote from: CarlyMcx on October 15, 2015, 02:23:02 PM
. . .
However, my wife is very worried about my income and career (self employed attorney) and she will not let me come out in public.

. . .

Therapy and low dose hormones are in my near term future, but beyond that, the only way I can go farther is to somehow assure my career and income stream first.  It is unfortunate, but it is what it is.

I have my stealthy little things I do, like shaving off body hair, eyebrow sculpting, nail polish on the toes, wearing Jockey women's panties under my clothes when I am out in the world.  And then there is the fun of shopping for clothes.  I carry pink roller pens with the support breast cancer logo.  I got an aqua colored cell phone case to match the aqua color of some of my favorite Hollister and Aeropostale women's tops.

. . .

Carly,

I feel for you, this is so close to my life, it's scary.  Luckily for me I'm not confined to quarters.  I used to be in a small town practice and I can't imagine what transitioning there would be like, though in reality, most people came to me because of what I knew, not who they thought I was.  I'm sure they would have come to me just like they went to the very openly lesbian attorney in the next village.  Still, even with a solid government job, that was my wife's first concern. I'm doing all those same things you are but also wearing ambiguous clothing (women's designer jeans and a pink women's running jacket) out in public in the community but I still have to wear a suit at work.  My wife has agreed to ear piercing after an anticipated promotion to another agency later this year; hopefully, that comes through.

Love,
DeeDee

One way to look at this situation is with some historical perspective.  Prior to our modern era virtually no one was transitioning and coming out in public.  Of course there have been those singular stand out individuals but nothing like the huge masses of us now being quite visible as a readily identifiable minority.

So if people have always been transgender what did all of those people do prior to modern therapy, HRT, GCS and the options we now have?  We can assume that they must have coped and adapted to their particular situations. 

People can adapt to what we cannot or will not change and in fact we always have.  We don't get to determine cultural norms and pace setters take a lot of heat with our loving relationships and other cherished ideals seemingly at risk.

Now we are in an era where our visibility and reality are better known and more accepted than ever before.  There has never been a better time to find resources, support and community.

I am one who believes that dysphoria is life long and progressive if not dealt with.  Sometimes it feels as if we are dealt a bad hand and then there are days when we ARE the dealer and we make the choices to be honest and free.

This is a personal and highly individualized journey and I trust we are all doing the best we can to craft our custom life. One size does not fit all;D ;D ;D

Quote from: Tessa James on March 23, 2016, 12:42:42 PM
One way to look at this situation is with some historical perspective.  Prior to our modern era virtually no one was transitioning and coming out in public.  Of course there have been those singular stand out individuals but nothing like the huge masses of us now being quite visible as a readily identifiable minority.

So if people have always been transgender what did all of those people do prior to modern therapy, HRT, GCS and the options we now have?  We can assume that they must have coped and adapted to their particular situations. 

People can adapt to what we cannot or will not change and in fact we always have.  We don't get to determine cultural norms and pace setters take a lot of heat with our loving relationships and other cherished ideals seemingly at risk.

Now we are in an era where our visibility and reality are better known and more accepted than ever before.  There has never been a better time to find resources, support and community.

I am one who believes that dysphoria is life long and progressive if not dealt with.  Sometimes it feels as if we are dealt a bad hand and then there are days when we ARE the dealer and we make the choices to be honest and free.

This is a personal and highly individualized journey and I trust we are all doing the best we can to craft our custom life. One size does not fit all;D ;D ;D

People did more of what some do today: Self medicate or commit suicide. May be some can deal with it better than others. If someone can compartmentalize, that makes it easier I guess. No matter what, there were more miserable trans people then.

Two things:

#1:  We all acknowledge the dilemma you face, and I commend you for your choice(s), whatever they may be.  It is YOUR life you're making decisions about, and I have no counsel for you, but The Bishop's Paradox:  "When the tree falls in the forest, and no one's 'round, does it make a sound?"  In other words, is life based in a reality we all might engage, or is life just a figment of the imagination?  The best decisions we make in our life are those that are true, no matter which way we may answer that paradox.  You have to be true to yourself, and you have to be true to those whom you love, and who love you.

#2:  Many here have made their decisions, and I've made mine.  We have no authority or wisdom, and I trust you will look inward, not allowing the opinions of others to decide for you.  It is, after all, YOUR life, not someone else's.

No matter what you choose, choose to be a whole human being, faults, warts and doubts and all.  That's life.  Bon voyage!

Quote from: HappyElderGeek on May 30, 2016, 02:09:18 PM
Two things:

#1:  We all acknowledge the dilemma you face, and I commend you for your choice(s), whatever they may be.  It is YOUR life you're making decisions about, and I have no counsel for you, but The Bishop's Paradox:  "When the tree falls in the forest, and no one's 'round, does it make a sound?"  In other words, is life based in a reality we all might engage, or is life just a figment of the imagination?  The best decisions we make in our life are those that are true, no matter which way we may answer that paradox.  You have to be true to yourself, and you have to be true to those whom you love, and who love you.

#2:  Many here have made their decisions, and I've made mine.  We have no authority or wisdom, and I trust you will look inward, not allowing the opinions of others to decide for you.  It is, after all, YOUR life, not someone else's.

No matter what you choose, choose to be a whole human being, faults, warts and doubts and all.  That's life.  Bon voyage!

Wanted to break in for a moment and welcome HappyElderGeek to our site. Your couple of posts are supportive and encouraging. Thank you.

I also wanted to pass some links along. We try to get them to newly posting members. They are mostly welcome information and rules. If you have not read through them, please take  a moment and do so:

Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html)	Standard Terms & Definitions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html)	Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar) (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html.)
Reputation rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18960.0.html)	News posting & quoting guidelines (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,174951.0.html)	Photo, avatars, & signature images policy (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59974.msg383866.html#msg383866)

Once again, welcome to Susan's. Let us know if you have questions. Please continue to join in.

With warmth,

Joanna

Ressurrecting an old thread with a bit of an update. My girlfriend and I have gotten engaged this weekend. We decided that we want to do everything we can to make it work and as far as my dysphoria goes I am back to fighting it with distractions and light secret dressing at home. Though we did discuss me being able to try HRT once we have managed to secure ourselves the family we want through natural conception and sperm banking... maybe 2 or 3 years down the road? It is a compromise of sorts.


It is far enough away that I feel like crying when I think about it and letting myself age that much more without the proper hormones in my system, and my girlfriend is absolutely dreading the physical changes that would come with it even though I would be the type to make sure I could maintain a good guy mode to live in socially as I don't know about transitioning socially. I just know that I need to try medication to combat the dysphoria. It is a messy and unclear future for us but we are determined to forge ahead together and find a way to make it work.

This is something that is going to be difficult to accomplish and unfortunately I don't have a good solution. When I transitioned, I knew it was going to be extremely difficult and to add a possibly failed relationship would complicate things even more. I made this decision in my mid teens and transition wasn't complete until I was 30. It's one of the reasons to this day I have never been in a relationship.  Transitioning is much less difficult now but it sounds like your girlfriend isn't fully on board. You should involve your girlfriend in therapy so she is aware of what is in the future. This is something you want as few surprises as possible. Other than that, you need to communicate everything because it will be difficult for both of you if you reach the point were you can no longer wait.

Does anyone happen to have any anecdotes about a compromise similar to mine that ended up working out? My fiancee would insist that part of the arangement means me keeping the man bits as SRS would be too much for her. Something like that would have been far off in the future if it would have happened but still I am not sure hkw I feel about taking that off the table. I have dreamed about having a vagina almost as long as I can remember and it makes me sad to think that it is no longer a possibility... I don't know if I would do it if she had no problem with it or not but still the possibility of it happening some day was a bit of a comfort to me I guess...

Amy85, I made the compromise and it works for me. I didn't mind keeping the man bits for I'm a lesbian and enjoy the feel of having sex. My wife is cool with the dressing and that where it ends.

Quote from: Amy85 on July 06, 2016, 01:13:01 AM
Does anyone happen to have any anecdotes about a compromise similar to mine that ended up working out? My fiancee would insist that part of the arangement means me keeping the man bits as SRS would be too much for her. Something like that would have been far off in the future if it would have happened but still I am not sure hkw I feel about taking that off the table. I have dreamed about having a vagina almost as long as I can remember and it makes me sad to think that it is no longer a possibility... I don't know if I would do it if she had no problem with it or not but still the possibility of it happening some day was a bit of a comfort to me I guess...

Here's some people where it worked out:


http://www.jenniferboylan.net

http://www.lesliefab.com

https://shewasthemanofmydreams.wordpress.com


The odds are against us though. Most don't.

Quote from: Amy85 on July 06, 2016, 01:13:01 AM
Does anyone happen to have any anecdotes about a compromise similar to mine that ended up working out? My fiancee would insist that part of the arangement means me keeping the man bits as SRS would be too much for her. Something like that would have been far off in the future if it would have happened but still I am not sure hkw I feel about taking that off the table. I have dreamed about having a vagina almost as long as I can remember and it makes me sad to think that it is no longer a possibility... I don't know if I would do it if she had no problem with it or not but still the possibility of it happening some day was a bit of a comfort to me I guess...

Some 30+ years ago I first dated my wife. She was told of my "Gender Issues".  In time I had settled on being "Just a Cross-Dresser". This was after 2 failed transition experiments. I managed to loosely manage the GD for much of those 30+ years thanks to what I call the 3Ds, Diversions, Distractions and Denial. A once monthly or so escape from maleness also helped. In time the 3Ds took control and I slowly morphed into a lifeless, soulless thing who existed just to "Do what was expected".

As expected my life exploded, once again. After too much quality time alone I realized the repeated explosions were due to how I was not handling being trans. A few months after being floored at my first ever TG Support group meeting I dropped the T-Bomb on my wife. "Just a CD" wasn't cutting it. This "Betrayal" could not come at a worse time for us as a long distance marriage was on shaky grounds to start with.

I also realized that to try to keep all the other important aspects of my life, I needed to figure out how to get the female and male aspects of myself to live at peace within me. It took a few years of hard work to unlearn a lot of bad "copping" skills and learn better ways to think about myself.

The effort began to pay off. I began to grow as a person. In time it was my wife who said "I think you are up to starting hormones if that is what you want", though she was far from thrilled over the inevitable "End Game", and still is not.

Seven years later we are still navigating the uncharted waters with only the compass of our mutual love to guide us. What the future may be like neither of us can know. The idea of having a spouse with a B cup was not exactly part of my wife's life plans. Nor was the path I am on part of mine, it was just a dream long ago given up on. I am also a person with joy in her life. Something else also given up on long ago

Today I still live and present primarily as male. My wife and I both know where my true joy lies. Life is endless series of compromises as you balance, or try to balance, countless conflicting needs and wants. Today (TBH most days) fortunately, I do not need to do a full social transition. I know I can and will if the day comes that I need to. I suspect, as does my wife, that as circumstances evolve and I again regain the freedom to live part-time, "want to" just may evolve into "need to". What that will lead to with the "Us".... One day at a time

Quote from: Amy85 on June 26, 2016, 11:27:32 PM
Ressurrecting an old thread with a bit of an update. My girlfriend and I have gotten engaged this weekend. We decided that we want to do everything we can to make it work and as far as my dysphoria goes I am back to fighting it with distractions and light secret dressing at home. Though we did discuss me being able to try HRT once we have managed to secure ourselves the family we want through natural conception and sperm banking... maybe 2 or 3 years down the road? It is a compromise of sorts.


It is far enough away that I feel like crying when I think about it and letting myself age that much more without the proper hormones in my system, and my girlfriend is absolutely dreading the physical changes that would come with it even though I would be the type to make sure I could maintain a good guy mode to live in socially as I don't know about transitioning socially. I just know that I need to try medication to combat the dysphoria. It is a messy and unclear future for us but we are determined to forge ahead together and find a way to make it work.

You have hopes and dreams with this woman and they fill your heart up, but you are setting yourself up to horribly resent this woman, and that is poison to a relationship.

We often say 'go slow' here, but I agree with the poster who said your wife should go to therapy with you and get a better handle on what is coming. You are giving up your soul for this relationship; cis people are not the only people who deserve boundaries in relationships. You need some boundaries as well.

I can only give you my view from personal experience.

After my first serious relationship broke (I have a now 19 year old daughter from that relationship), I considered the first time to transition in my early twenties, but the time and myself was not ready. (conservative background and other issues).

With 25 I met my current wife, during the first year in our relationship I disclosed to her that "I always wanted to be a girl" and I had the impression that she was fine with it. Doing makeup and shopping together. Fast forward, after 5 years we got married and we have a wonderful 10 year old now. During all this years she constantly teased me with things like: "You really behave like a girl." "Now with the new shoes you also sound like a woman". And many other things...

Over the past years she changed and I did too, we have grown apart.
She got more conservative in her views and I got more and more femme in my behavior and after I hit rock bottom last year I started therapy and HRT.

Long story short, we are now I a divorce battle and I ask myself every day what have I done to the persons most important in my life, because of the decisions I made in the past. Not so much my wife, but why do my girls need to be in the middle of all this.

Don't get me wrong, I love my daughters, but I sometimes I think, that it would have been better to have no children due to my condition. For example, I fear for the time when she get's bullied in school because of me.

So my point is, make sure that you and your girlfriend really know what's ahead of you and that you can deal with it. Especially when children's are involved. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst!

jm2c
Thessa

I think this is the kind of topic worth resurrecting once in a while, because I believe the situation is common to so many of us.

I share the pain: to be honest, I'm quite unsure if I'm 'female inside' or not. All I know is that I'm most definitely not a male; never was, and very likely never will be. Because I tried so hard to act and behave as a male, and utterly failed as a result of 'overtrying' (is there such a word?), I now suffer from gender dysphoria, depression, and anxiety (the latter, fortunately, is very easy to keep in check with medication; depression, so-so).

I'm also married, for almost two decades. For some bizarre reason which I cannot understand, all my close friends and familiars are ultra-conservative — except, fortunately, for my wife. She is twice as intelligent as I am, with an IQ at the Utter Genius level, which in turn makes her a voracious reader — and that helped when I 'came out' back in 2004, telling her that I'm 'merely a crossdresser'. That was mostly a lie to myself; I did truly want to believe that's all that I was. In fact, I fervently wish, every day, to be 'just a crossdresser'. I've got a lot of crossdresser friends; those who are transgender, with perhaps one exception (she's genderfluid and oscillates between maleness and femaleness), suffer from gender dysphoria; those who are 'merely crossdressers' are mentally healthy, very happy people, enjoying themselves to the fullest, absolutely sure about their male gender but loving their occasional female presentation. And it's not as if they just occasionally crossdress — many spend more hours dressed as women (at home) than as men (at work).

Almost all of my crossdresser friends also share a common characteristic: they are divorced. Many (most?) struggle with the issue of their children; many are too young to understand, others are teenagers struggling with their own hormone-induced gender and sexuality questions, others still are young adults who would be utterly shocked for having a divorced 'dad' who walks around in women's clothes. In most cases, the divorce was not because of their crossdressing. Most are also occasionally dating women who understand and accept them (most are also divorced themselves), although a very few are more into men, or at least bi-curious and wondering if they could establish a life as wife to a wealthy man. In fact, one of my friends did exactly that — she came out as 'homosexual male' years many ago, found out that sex with other homosexual males was not fulfilling, and finally figured out that what she really wanted was to get a heterosexual male as a partner. This, of course, would only be possible if she became a woman instead — which she did, rather quickly in fact (when I first met her, not quite two years ago, she was not even on hormones; today, she's fully recovered from her gender confirmation surgery and is 'full woman', in her own words).

So... among my circle of friends and acquaintances who self-label themselves as 'trans-something', I see those who are more similar to me being the saddest group. We all go to therapy and have to fight depression along gender dysphoria. In my country there are no jobs for transexuals (or any kind of transgender people) outside sex workers, even though there is a very high level of public tolerance and relatively low levels of open transphobia. Still, no MtF transexual — ever — who transitioned in my country managed to keep their jobs (FtM transexuals usually have no problems finding jobs, especially as teachers — they almost always pass anyway, and they're used to changing schools all the time). A few, very few, managed to get a job outside sex work; one works as a model, but she had a huge push from her daddy, a very influential person in certain circles. This currently means hundreds of jobless transexuals, some of them still depressed, or at least quite frustrated and desperate for getting a way to pay for their bills; many had no choice but to go back to their parents' home. I have asked a few doctors around — currently there are 'thousands' of transgender people in therapy, many of which in several stages of transition, but the vast majority is just trying to cope with the hopelessness of it all. And these are just those who do, indeed, seek medical help from medical specialists in clinical sexology (those are the ones in my country who are allowed to sign the papers for HRT and surgery); there are merely estimates, based on informal chats between colleagues at hospitals and clinics, which calculate that there are possibly tens of thousands of transgender people out there, suffering in silence, and not daring to seek professional help— but who confessed to their family doctors the kind of urges they had to become women, and the effort they made to suppress those urges. Now, these numbers might not impress you; but I live in a small country and we're talking about 1% of the male population suffering from some degree of gender dysphoria — and these are just the ones who talked to a doctor. How many are still silently suffering, not daring to talk to a doctor?

Now let's look at some parochial statistics. Those 'happy crossdressers' (I don't wish to sound as if I envy them; in fact, I'm very glad that they have no problems!) outnumber us 'sad gender dysphorics' by at least 5:1, and very possibly more. Of course I'm just counting those in my group; and of course a few might be 'faking' that they are 'merely crossdressers' exactly for the same reasons that most of us do: to try to persuade themselves and everybody around them that they can handle gender dysphoria and suffer in silence. I don't know. Few openly admit it, that's for true.

What's my point? That the number of people desperately clinging to any other 'label' except 'transexual' (in the sense of suffering from gender dysphoria that can only be dealt with through transition) is actually much higher than what we may imagine. The media tend to show the many success stories — and a few tragedies. Activist sites, as well as many others, tend to portray the image that going through transition is hard and tough, but always worth is — so long as what you really want is to leave your 'old' life behind and start from scratch a 'new' life.

Unfortunately, that's not such an easy choice for everybody! My own therapist actually sided with my wife when I told them that I wanted to 'come out' to more people, including some familiars and close friends: they both told me to refrain from doing so. Why? Because it's unclear if I will ever have the courage to break up all ties with family, friends, job, a city, a way to support myself financially... and jump blindingly ahead and start living my life as woman without a real plan on how that can really be achieved (emigration is an option for a few transgender friends believing that they might get luckier in getting a job in the UK or the Netherlands) — so I should just keep a low profile. Sure, dress as much as possible, at home or in public with other crossdresser friends, but stick to that, and only that.

Mind you, there is no doubt in the minds of my therapist and psychiatrist (and even on my family doctor) that I do suffer from gender dysphoria. It's questionable if it's a very severe case, though — I would say it's moderate-to-mild, since I do not entertain suicidal thoughts, nor do I have the courage to break all ties with everything, which is what people with severe gender dysphoria usually want to do. Nevertheless, I have seen some reports. Doctors want to help me out of depression (which currently prevents me from working), but the therapy they proposed does not meet with my wife's approval — they suggest that, since most of my work (if not all of it) can be done remotely, I ought to dress like I wish every day, stay at home for 8 hours and do my work, and eventually go out with some friends as a 'reward'. In fact, I have tried this 'therapy' for a couple of days and it certainly worked wonderfully well. But then reality stepped in: my wife said that there was no way I she would be going to the supermarket with me ridiculously dressed as a woman (or, what she says, a 'hyper-feminine stereotype of a woman that really does not exist except in my mind'), and of course we need to shop for food. And she can add a few millions of other examples when it would be completely unthinkable for me to go out (especially with her), face everybody, and so forth. For my wife, this is simply unthinkable, and, in a word, 'stupid'. She does not believe that I have 'gender dysphoria'. Instead, she follows a line of reasoning not unlike that of Felix Conrad <commercial links are not allowed> — that going out with crossdressing friends provokes an adrenaline rush, a sensation of well-being, which is important for someone who is depressed (that's why we shouldn't stay at home, but seek the company of others), and this leads us to imagine that we would be better off if we 'acted' as if we were 'female bimbos' and do it all the time. My wife has a sharp tongue; she is not politically correct when telling me how I should behave :)

But of course she forces me to think about my real choices, and separate 'wishful thinking' from real goals in my life. In spite of going out in public quite a lot (yes, even to the supermarket... just not with my wife, of course), the truth is that I'm unsure if I could handle living as a woman full-time — especially if that means being alone, scorned and despised by friends, family, and (former...) colleagues. My wife says that she would support me, of course, even though she is quite adamant in her conviction that it would be the most stupid decision ever. I simply don't know for sure any more. It seems to be a lose-lose situation. Felix Conrad, mentioned above, says that one of the questions we must ask ourselves very seriously is: will I be more happy afterwards? (meaning: after transition has been completed) And how much 'more' is 'more'? If the answer is: 'I'm so miserable right now that starting life from scratch as a woman cannot make it worse', then, yes, go ahead with transition. But if the answer is that, like every other choice in life, there will be a good and a bad side to everything, well, then it's best to continue to suffer in silence and do the occasional crossdressing. This is the old adage of choosing the Hell that is already familiar than jump into Heaven, where we have no idea if it'll be better or worse...

Recently, my wife has also suggested that by listing most of my symptoms, she concluded that it's all part of a midlife crisis. Many doctors are reluctant to diagnose a condition merely as 'midlife crisis', because so many of the symptoms overlap classic depression. It's true, however, that an alleged midlife crisis might have a strong effect on someone who also suffers from gender dysphoria. In other words: twenty years ago, gender dysphoria was 'sufferable', especially because we lived in the roaring 1990s, when money flowed like water and there were no worries — I envisioned a bright future where I could live as a woman simply from the interest on my accumulated earnings. Then the whole economy collapsed — first with the dot-com bubble, then with the subprime crisis — and I could kiss all my earnings bye-bye. And, of course, now I'm twenty years older — and possibly at that time of life where I pretty much know that I have simply waited too long, I have wasted too many decades, and now I'm simply too old and a coward and unwilling to 'start from scratch' again — it was so much easier when I was younger and believed much more in my dreams than I do today.

Still, I keep telling myself that Caitlyn Jenner transitioned when she was 64. Sure, I cannot compare my circumstances with hers; the only thing we share is the same supplier of hip pads :) But she's most definitely my role model, more than anyone else. She stifled her urges and desires of wanting to be who she is for decades upon decades, struggled along, fought gender dysphoria all the way, and once she had her whole life settled and could simply look ahead to a comfortable retirement, then she took the Big Step and went ahead with all that she ever wanted — and made a great job of it.

My own life will be by no means as 'comfortable' as Caitlyn's, of course, but I can draw some strength from the notion that she did, after so much time, fulfill her dreams. We cannot predict the future, even though we can do some planning ahead. And the only thing that my wife persuaded me to think about is to look beyond the 'trap' of transition. It seems to be the solution for everything, short-term. But I have to honestly think about what will come next. And that also scares me a lot: I'm not so sure that I would enjoy living the remaining decades of my life, alone, as a trans woman, lost and abandoned by everybody, and most likely having to beg for food in the streets — because, even if I could swallow my pride and offer my body for sale on the streets, the truth is that I'm far too old to be interesting to potential customers anyway. One might think that this is a worst-case scenario, and things will not be that grim. Maybe. But I prefer to prepare mentally for the worst. If I can handle that, then anything which is 'better than the worst' will just look rosy and peachy and, well, wonderful. But right now I can only say that between suffering from gender dysphoria but keeping along with my current life, and starting from scratch a new life, alone, without real hopes of even managing to survive, well... for now, at least, my choice is clear. And the same, of course, applies to most people I know who label themselves trans* — they go through the same reasoning. It's just those who are really desperate, or have at least strong support (usually from parents who can financially help them; sometimes, from a well-off 'boyfriend'), who go for transition. The rest of us just bite the bullet and go ahead with their lives.

Note: apparently, in my country, although all therapy and surgeries are paid by the welfare state, there is a condition for getting hormones (and eventual therapy): you need to commit yourself to live full-time in the gender you identify with. This is different from many other countries where hormone therapy is an acceptable therapy to deal with the worst effects of gender dysphoria, even if the person going through HRT wants to keep their assigned gender role for the sake of appearances. Allegedly, if you go via private doctors instead of through the National Health Service, you might be able to get a nice endocrinologist who will prescribe you some hormones — but, of course, it means paying a lot. My own insurance seems to cover at least the sessions with a medical doctor with the clinical sexology specialisation. So I'll see what will come out of that and pay for a few sessions...


Moderator Edit: It is against Terms of Service #1 to post links to commercial sites

It ticks me off to hear the "hyperfeminine stereotype of a woman that doesn't exist" get tossed around. Say that when you have a brow bone and jawline, a nose and frame that will get you instantly misgendered every single time unless you balance it with hyperfeminine traits.

Quote from: JMJW on October 05, 2016, 01:47:02 PM
It ticks me off to hear the "hyperfeminine stereotype of a woman that doesn't exist" get tossed around. Say that when you have a brow bone and jawline, a nose and frame that will get you instantly misgendered every single time unless you balance it with hyperfeminine traits.

Yup, fair. I do the same thing in reverse. I feel like my gender expression/role is more androgynous than masculine but I try to look as masculine as possible because my physical body is too feminine and gets me misgendered.

Sandra, is it possible for a trans person in your country to own their own business and therefore be in control of their own employment?

Quote from: Amy85 on July 06, 2016, 01:13:01 AM
Does anyone happen to have any anecdotes about a compromise similar to mine that ended up working out? My fiancee would insist that part of the arangement means me keeping the man bits as SRS would be too much for her. Something like that would have been far off in the future if it would have happened but still I am not sure hkw I feel about taking that off the table. I have dreamed about having a vagina almost as long as I can remember and it makes me sad to think that it is no longer a possibility... I don't know if I would do it if she had no problem with it or not but still the possibility of it happening some day was a bit of a comfort to me I guess...

You could check out Helen Boyd's books and website. She is the partner of a former cross dresser/now mtf trans woman. They have gone the super slow/compromise route, and are still married after many years. I think the condition was to keep the male bits too?
<commercial links are not allowed>

Also Sally Molay and Jack Molay's respective websites and blogs.
<Commercial links are not allowed>
There is also a new book by partners of trans people
<Commercial links are not allowed>

Moderator Edit: You can post the name of books or authors and the names of their sites. However we have a policy of not allowing links to commercial sites.

Helen Boyd and her wife divorced after the surgery,she.was supportive up til after the gcs which was a deal breaker.

My wife and I have an agreement and that agreement is I can crossdressing but no hormones or surgery or we will divorce. I love my wife and don't want a divorce.

Quote from: Bunter on October 09, 2016, 04:49:15 AM
You could check out Helen Boyd's books and website. She is the partner of a former cross dresser/now mtf trans woman. They have gone the super slow/compromise route, and are still married after many years. I think the condition was to keep the male bits too?
<Commercial links are not allowed>

Also Sally Molay and Jack Molay's respective websites and blogs.
<Commercial links are not allowed>

There is also a new book by partners of trans people
<Commercial links are not allowed>

Jenny boylan would be someone positive to look up. There are others. While I find Boyd, aka Gail Kramer funny at times, she comes off as someone perpetually pissed and was probably like that before her spouses transition.   


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Moderator edit: I had to pull the links in the original post that is quoted here. Thus I had to edit this one as well.

Wow, some great reading ahead now :)

In the end, all of the decisions and choices are that in the hearts of the person transitioning.  Married or no, one can only go so far in consideration of another before they are no longer living their own life.

I have a partner and we are both involved in the community.  We came up with an agreement that is simple enough.  She needs me to be as real and honest with myself as I can be.  She knows what is coming, we have discussed it at length to make sure this is something that we wish to undergo together.  She has made it clear that she fell in love with me and not a particular body.  She love me for the whole package and that included the fact that I am trans and transitioning.

I love her, the all of her.  I am ever aware of how she is feeling, accepting something.  I would never intentionally do something that would hurt her.  I do what I can to make sure she knows this, that she gets to feel the love I have for her.  I have also resolved that if I ever get to a point that she is not able to accept, I will be open to hearing that.

Anyway, it is an interesting place...transition for two, really.

Quote from: AnxietyDisord3r on October 07, 2016, 06:59:21 AM
Yup, fair. I do the same thing in reverse. I feel like my gender expression/role is more androgynous than masculine but I try to look as masculine as possible because my physical body is too feminine and gets me misgendered.

Sandra, is it possible for a trans person in your country to own their own business and therefore be in control of their own employment?

Oh yes, of course! Note that although discriminating trans people is forbidden by law, that doesn't mean that employers don't have the wildest tricks to 'discriminate' them anyway. One thing they can easily do is impose a dress code inside the office; they have the right to do that, and that right overrides one's right to freedom of expression. That's the whole problem: the employer can 'decide' on whatever 'dressing rules' apply to each employee, and not sticking to those rules is a fair reason to fire them.

But naturally enough trans people can create their own businesses. There is allegedly one of those saunas that are so popular with the gay community who is owned by a transgender woman. In fact, she operates the only sauna in the city that does not discriminate against gender or sexual orientation (all the others, surprisingly, do — they are only for either gay cisgender males or lesbian cisgender females, although one can go into those saunas if you simply omit to state your sexual preference and ask for a single booth). There used to be a very famous bookstore specialised in gender issues which was also owned by a transgender woman; she didn't make enough for a living, though, and eventually had to close the bookstore and emigrate to the UK (but she still was around for a decade or so). And last but not least, one transgender woman started a musical career. She isn't good at singing, but 'good enough' for some popular folk music (which has very low standards of quality anyway) — she already sold one CD, toured Brazil where she sold even more, and came back to do several tours and start thinking about her next CD. Will she become rich and famous? No. But she might survive for a few decades while she still has a youthful appearance and the kind of music that appeals to a certain social class.

These are just a few examples. There might be a few more. I have heard of a trans woman who owns her own hair salon, but because it's in a city 300 km away from me, I haven't checked if it's true or just a rumour. As a rule of thumb, nobody goes to hair salons where trans people work (although it's fine if you're a gay male!), so this one would be the exception!

A few of my friends have also thought on how to start our own business especially targeted to the trans & crossdressing community. Most need spaces where they can feel safe and secure, and where they can try things out, get pictures, learn a bit about makeup and walking in heels, and so forth. Many of those are also ashamed to order things through the Internet and/or go shopping for clothes of a 'different' gender. So there might be a small business opportunity in this area. And of course the model could be replicated — franchised — in other places as well, if it's successful. Who knows, it might be.

Last but not least, I can imagine that some people might be able to work from home — typical examples being graphic artists, software/app developers, web designers, and so forth, because they might never see the customer at all. However, as far as I know, in my country, for some unexplainable reason, although crossdressers come from all classes of society and are, on average, more educated than the average population (a trend which is common world-wide), trans women — even late onset transexuals — have a below-average education. A few might have a technical degree, usually for the kind of male-only job that they cannot possibly continue to do (e.g. construction electrician, logistics operator, and so forth). Others have not even that, and, before transition, would commit to low-paying jobs (like working at odd jobs for supermarkets or other similar big surfaces), exactly the kind that have very strict rules about appearance, and who would never tolerate trans women.

I should not stick to just one side, namely, MtF transgender people. It's actually interesting, but trans men are the total opposite: almost all have a higher education — many are school teachers, in fact — and they simply switch jobs to some place else where they are not directly known. Public school teachers have a huge advantage there, because they're constantly being pushed around from school to school, and it's relatively easy to get placed somewhere else; also, there cannot be any discrimination in public schools, so if you 'reveal' yourself as trans, the State has absolutely no way to kick you off, even if all your colleagues hatefully write a petition to fire you. It doesn't work that way — it has to do with the way the law is written. At one end, there are private spaces: these include people's homes, of course, as well as offices from any sort of organisation (from small associations to financial mega-corporations). In all of these, the owner/boss/manager/whoever is in charge dictates the rules on personal appearance. These don't even need to make sense — in the case of associations and companies they only need to be written down somewhere, but that's all it needs. So on those places, trans women simply have no choice, unless they pass so well as to be completely undetectable (and we all know that happens perhaps in one out of a hundred cases). Trans men might pull it off because they pass so well, but I guess that they would be in constant fear of being 'found out' (even if their ID cards would clearly show that their gender matches their appearance, their boss could still insist in firing them if they don't comply to whatever 'dress code' the boss has in mind). It's unfair (especially because you cannot discriminate against race, religion, sexual orientation, political ideology, etc... so far as none of those have an impact on your personal appearance, of course!), but that's how it works: the point being that if you're unwilling to follow the appearance rules of one company, you should go to the next one. The problem is when there are none available!

Then we have 'private spaces with public access'. These are basically things like restaurants, bars, hotels, malls, shops, and naturally also privately-held open air venues like swimming pools (and yes, saunas too), and so forth, but it also includes things like buses, subway, trains, and any other kind of so-called 'public' transportation (even though the company is private!) — taxis as well (but NOT cars operated by Uber or other companies — these are strictly 'private' spaces). In those places, you can restrict the way people are attired, but you have to clearly state all the rules at a very visible place near the entrances. The law even goes as far as defining things like the size of the notice, the size of the font, and a few graphical design hints (the notice, for instance, has to be visible at a certain distance — you cannot simply print black letters on a black background to comply with the letter of the law, but make it impossible for anyone to know your 'house rules'!). And, in fact, the doors to malls, for instance, are usually all covered with the rules of conduct — you cannot go in naked or in beachwear, you cannot enter if you're already very drunk, no weapons can be carried, you cannot take pictures (not even selfies!) without permission, and so forth. It's quite a long list. But even the city buses have similar notices at the entrance. The main reason for this is actually to make it strictly clear that, for example, minors are not allowed. A good example: it's perfectly legal to operate a bar where you have live sex on stage (one assumes that all are consenting adults). But you must forbid minors from entering. This means clearly placing a notice next to the entrance saying 'Access restricted to adults — live sex is being performed'. This is to inform people about what happens inside: if you're bothered by live sex (say, if you're a religious conservative), then you cannot simply go inside and complain. If you go inside, you know the rules, and you have to abide by them; if you don't, you can be kicked out — no questions asked, and no chance to complain and/or sue the owners. In 'private spaces with public access' the owner still sets the rules; the difference is that all the rules have to be clearly on display. The main reason my group of trans/CD friends can go pretty much to any bar, pub, or restaurant is because nobody has ever thought of writing those notices forbidding us to enter :)

Last but not least, there are 'public' spaces. Some are pretty obvious: the streets, the public parks, all natural reserves, and so forth. But what many people don't know is that all buildings that belong to the State — and in our country this includes not only things like Parliament, but also hospitals, schools, police stations, all public administration buildings, all municipal buildings — including some of the lesser known ones, like theatres for example. I remember I went to a show once with two friends (one is CD, the other trans, currently in transition). Someone said that we would be 'risking it', because people could get offended, kick us out, etc. I said that they could be offended as much as they wanted, but they could do nothing about it: that particular theatre had been bought by the City Hall a few years ago, so it's a 'public' building, and that means it's impossible for them to kick us out for not 'dressing properly' (and we were in our best evening dresses!).

What this means is that if some trans person works for the State, either directly (being part of the bureaucracy) or indirectly (working for an entity that is owned by the public, either at state level, or local level...), they cannot be kicked out merely because they 'dress strangely'. In fact, nobody can be kicked out of the 'public' spaces, no matter how 'strange' they might look like. This has allowed FtM transexuals to keep their jobs in public school — they might just have switched schools, or at least switched classes (it might be too weird for a high school kid to finish a year with a female teacher and start the next year with the same teacher — but now as a male). Most FtM transexuals can pass easily enough, and because their job is done in a public space (as explained), nobody really can force them to dress differently than the gender they identify with (and, of course, it will also be the gender shown on their ID card).

So, the short answer: yes, in my country, trans people can definitely own and run businesses, and dress pretty much as they wish, because the law protects their right to do so; also, they could get a job working for the State (it's tough these days, they haven't admitted many people in the past 15 years or so), or, assuming they already have a job in the civil service, then they will be able to keep it (the worst-case scenario being 'forced' to switch from one entity to a different one).

(Apologies for only answering today)

Quote from: Sandra M. Lopes on October 20, 2016, 04:14:41 PM
But naturally enough trans people can create their own businesses. There is allegedly one of those saunas that are so popular with the gay community who is owned by a transgender woman. In fact, she operates the only sauna in the city that does not discriminate against gender or sexual orientation (all the others, surprisingly, do — they are only for either gay cisgender males or lesbian cisgender females, although one can go into those saunas if you simply omit to state your sexual preference and ask for a single booth). There used to be a very famous bookstore specialised in gender issues which was also owned by a transgender woman; she didn't make enough for a living, though, and eventually had to close the bookstore and emigrate to the UK (but she still was around for a decade or so). And last but not least, one transgender woman started a musical career. She isn't good at singing, but 'good enough' for some popular folk music (which has very low standards of quality anyway) — she already sold one CD, toured Brazil where she sold even more, and came back to do several tours and start thinking about her next CD. Will she become rich and famous? No. But she might survive for a few decades while she still has a youthful appearance and the kind of music that appeals to a certain social class.

This shows you know little of folk music and it's fans.. I'm not one particularly, but have been to a few events/gigs/festivals with family over the years and I have always been amazed at the wide variety of people there. Well produced music by skilled performers. The festivals have also been a place where gender diversity was not an issue.

It's 2016, comments about social class make me laugh. The lines between classes have become so blurred as to be meaningless.