Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I am reaching out here because I am learning about what it means to be married to someone who after years of marriage has come out to me as transgender.

I love my husband, we have children together, a life, family, community.

For the last year my husband has been seeing a counselor for what I thought was depression. It turns out that he was seeing a gender therapist and that he is Transgender and has been hiding this for his whole life. He told me his entire story and to begin with I thought it was just that... a story.  But who does this? Who says they are "gay" or "they are a woman in the wrong body"? 

Men just don't do that.

So...I have been looking, talking reading, searching for answers and it has led me here.  I have been reading many stories of people that stay together and others that break up and some that are just playing it day by day. The Later is where I'm at. At the moment.

I told him I love him but I need time to figure out what this means to me and I asked him to split our combined worth up now, because if I have to leave I want it to be with as little pain as possible and I need a net and I hate lawyers, I would like a clean exit. I have no financial means outside of us and I need to know I'm safe and our kids will be able to eat and have a place to sleep. He cried and told me that no matter what all he wants is for us to be safe, I believe him. He has a good heart.

So now I'm reaching out here for advice from anyone with it. I've read the posts and threads here, found many like mine. But I could use some insights and thoughts. I want to be with him but now I'm not sure its possible.

1 – How hard is it really to stay with someone that is transgender? I don't think I'm a lesbian but I do find women to be beautiful I could maybe see us staying together but will our love stay? I'm concerned we will just be good friends if we stay together. I don't want that. I want love.
2 – What If I no longer want sex with this person, am I destined to be with out sex rest of my life?
3 – Do people love and stay together but move to separate rooms?
4 – What if he starts liking guys... maybe he already does! He says he only wants to be with me for the rest of his life and he is my person. He says he loves women, only attracted to women, but I have used toys on him in our play in the bedroom for years (strapon and plugs). He says he is a woman and a lesbian and lesbian anything super arouses him. He sees himself as a woman when we make love now, just with a penis.
5- He wants the surgery to remove his testes, says he despises these *things*... won't that destroy sex?
6- Him being an older male, I don't get why he wants to do this now.. I'm confused. He won't be hot, he is older best I think he could hope for, with LOTS of surgeries and implants would be to pass, even then..everyone will know.
7 – what are some good articles or resources? I found ->-bleeped-<-, huffingtonpost, any others out there, any with stories I might read?

Thank you graciously to any that care to share or help me with my questions.

Quote from: home4u on December 21, 2016, 01:45:55 PM
I am reaching out here because I there www.

1 – How hard is it really to stay with someone that is transgender? I don't think I'm a lesbian but I do find women to be beautiful I could maybe see us staying together but will our love stay? I'm concerned we will just be good friends if we stay together. I don't want that. I want love.

Me and my wife have been dealing with this for 18 yrs.and we are more in love now that all my secrets are out in the open. Its hard but with work on both sides it can work.

2 – What If I no longer want sex with this person, am I destined to be with out sex rest of my life?

Thats your choice. But you have had sex like 2 women for yrs. So what's the problem now. Me and my wife still has sex but not that often due to her health issues.

3 – Do people love and stay together but move to separate rooms?

Me and my wife refuse to have separate arms we still sleep together like we have for 28 yrs.

4 – What if he starts liking guys... maybe he already does! He says he only wants to be with me for the rest of his life and he is my person. He says he loves women, only attracted to women, but I have used toys on him in our play in the bedroom for years (strapon and plugs). He says he is a woman and a lesbian and lesbian anything super arouses him. He sees himself as a woman when we make love now, just with a penis.

Me and my wife made bedroom games more fun since I came out. I love women for men don't do nothing for me. Its up to the person and what they want.
5- He wants the surgery to remove his testes, says he despises these *things*... won't that destroy sex?
No, but it will be harder to get an erection so Viagra or Calais comes into play.

6- Him being an older male, I don't get why he wants to do this now.. I'm confused. He won't be hot, he is older best I think he could hope for, with LOTS of surgeries and implants would be to pass, even then..everyone will know.
Many come out later in life for we of the older generation was taught this is wrong so we hide. Many come out and don't do surgeries.
7 – what are some good articles or resources? I found ->-bleeped-<-, huffingtonpost, any others out there, any with stories I might read?

Thank you graciously to any that care to share or help me with my questions.

It depends on what you classify as love. A sex act? A kind thought? Being there when you need him. My wife and I share everything. I kind of learned that lesson with my first wife. We have not had sex since Oct 16, 1993 the day before my first open heart surgery. I have since hand three more operations.  Yet my wife and I are more in love than ever. Warts and all. We need each other and would not know how to go on independently. She knew when we were dating back in 81 that I liked to dress as a woman and I have been able to do so for the better part of our relationship. I affirmed it six months ago that a I could no longer live the lie, and decided to begin HRT. So far she is down with it, so I feel really blessed. If your husband is older like myself, there is a possibility that his mother received DES Diethylstilbestrol synthetic female hormones in massive doses while he was in utero, to prevent miscarriage and stillbirth.  http://DESACTION.ORG    DES SONS  I know this knowledge eased my wife and children's understanding of my situation.
https://www.susans.org/wiki/Transsexualism_-_Information_for_the_family

Hi Home 4u


Welcome and I can hopefully share a few things that may answer some of your questions.

Why now? the great question...because prior to now most of us have been in huge internal battles. Think about how long your husband has held this within themselves and is only just now telling someone. I know it is  a shock but just for a second imagine having something that bothered you on such a basic level and you could NEVER tell anyone about it for all sorts of reasons. Being transgender while in the news and you hear much more about it now days those of us that grew up in during the 60, 70, 80's had nowhere to turn. For me it became a simple question of deal with my Gender Dysphoria or exit. My wife of 30 years much preferred me alive even knowing that I was going to transition...it wasn't an ultimatum and I offered to walk away and leave her with everything...I didn't care, I am fully aware of the position my transition puts her in...and so we talked, and we talk and we work through the issues..it is not an ideal situation for her nor me but we love each other and in the end we decided what was important in our lives and it was each other. My wife has such a generous personality and loves me so deeply that she will do anything to ensure I am happy. 

For many many years all I ever did was take care of her and my family and I don't begrudge them 1 second. I knew I couldn't do it forever and eventually I would have to deal with my gender issues but once my kids came along I did what I had to do to survive but when you ask my kids about me they would tell you I was a very angry person. So did I really do them any favors by hiding it from them...probably not. I guess what I am saying is I got to the point where I just could not function anymore my Dysphoria was out of control and the only out I could see was death. Years and years of this kind of thinking is dangerous.

The sex thing...you either can or your can not and you need to work out how important it is for you. Me personally I couldn't care less about sex...never could see what all the fuss was about...I know now why I think the way I do and feel the way I do. I am not a guy and I never was one...I certainly was brought up as one and born with the appropriate equipment but that is as far as it went. I had a really good go at being a guy but I was always doomed to fail.

What does the future hold...don't know...but I am happier than I have been in  along time, my wife and I are closer than we have ever been...our bond is supertight , I still have Dysphoria but that is beginning to change so the future is going to be full of challenges but I have my soul mate by my side so it will be alright.

I hope some of that helps 

Regards

Liz


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People are born the way they are..they don't "choose" to be transgender. Most only transition as a last resort, usually to avoid suicide after a lifetime of suppression and dysphoria.

You will probably find many stories here that can give you insights.

I only found out I'm partially transmale in 2013, and I'm 64, so age has little to do with it. But the dysphoria had been making me depressed, have panic attacks, and was causing such distress I almost started taking testosterone to get relief. In my case, I'm only about 60% transmale and have a weaker female side, but the conflict was exhausting.
I found relief in a local Thai evergreen herb taken in Thailand for back pain. It relieves dysphoria and allows my gender sides to blend in peace.

However, my ex-husband recently emailed me that he plans to transition to non-binary female (he says he doesn't think of himself as a woman, but as "other"), and wants to join me in Thailand, get back together. He wants to take female hormones and grow breasts, dress and live as a female, but leave his body intact.
All I do is to dress androgynously, as I always have, so I don't do anything special to indicate a transmale element.

So, in our case, if this actually happens, there would be two people who have switched gender roles. And I also would face issues you are facing.

I don't know how our new roles would work. I would be perceived to be a "lesbian." I am currently teaching in southern Thailand, and although Buddhist Thai accept a Third Gender and have no problem with gender variation, there are many Muslims here as well. They are tolerant, but it might affect my teaching job.

I don't know if I would be attracted to his body anymore. Maybe I would attracted even more, but I don't know.

I don't know if he will switch to being attracted to males, decide I'm not good enough with my female body, and leave. Since my behavior has always been very male, and our love life was kinky, with much role-switching, he would have to had that element all along anyway.

Females typically run the family, make the decisions, and men just hand over the paycheck and help the wife. She decorates, decides where to go on vacations, etc, and men typically tag along. That's how it was when we were together (except that I had my own job and we started a small company together), despite our hidden opposite gender personalities.

So, now what? I still want to run things, and I don't want my life to become me tagging around behind him (or her). Maybe my ex will also want to run things, if he lets his female side dominate. My current idea is that he can rent his own apartment across the hall from me, and keep his own space, join me at will.

I have lived alone for six years since I moved to Thailand, but he recently remarried, so he would still have to come out, be divorced by his current wife-a staunch religious Republican, who rants against LGBTQ people, find a way to support himself online, etc. so it's a long shot that we get together, but a possibility.

This worried me enough that I began visiting this forum to gain insight from MtF people who have remained with their spouses, and how they worked it out.

Welcome to Susan's Place. I have never been in a relationship but I can answer some of the question based off the many posts I have seen on this site.

1 – How hard is it really to stay with someone that is transgender? I don't think I'm a lesbian but I do find women to be beautiful I could maybe see us staying together but will our love stay? I'm concerned we will just be good friends if we stay together. I don't want that. I want love.
Staying  with somebody transgender is very personal. I have see stories of women who say I  am not lesbian and can't wait to get out of the relationship. Other do everything they can to help their spouse transition and still others grow to love their spouse more as the spouse becomes more comfortable with themselves. It will depend on your values and your ability to accept what could be uncomfortable for you now.

2 – What If I no longer want sex with this person, am I destined to be with out sex rest of my life?
This is a question that might be asked by any divorced couple and there isn't an answer. I have seen people form relationships of 3 or more people and you may decide to leave the marriage for somebody else. Again it's a decision you will have to make.

3 – Do people love and stay together but move to separate rooms?
Most of the time separate bed rooms mean the love has gone from the relationship. If the love is still there, most likely they will share a bedroom but sex may be limited.

4 – What if he starts liking guys... maybe he already does! He says he only wants to be with me for the rest of his life and he is my person. He says he loves women, only attracted to women, but I have used toys on him in our play in the bedroom for years (strapon and plugs). He says he is a woman and a lesbian and lesbian anything super arouses him. He sees himself as a woman when we make love now, just with a penis.
Sexual orientation doesn't change but some people are bisexual to start out with. I have seen many people who are transitioning but are heartbroken because their partner left time. I would say the odds of your partner remaining with you are far greater than those of your partner leaving.

5- He wants the surgery to remove his testes, says he despises these *things*... won't that destroy sex?
It could but blockers are pretty brutal and remaining on them for the long term isn't fun. You have to watch your diet and drink massive amounts of water with some. Short term on the blockers you will know what sex will be like in the future. Also there is more than one way to have fun in the bedroom and that will have to be decided between the two of you. Consider that you have minimal testosterone in your body but you still enjoy sex. This is true of us as well.

6- Him being an older male, I don't get why he wants to do this now.. I'm confused. He won't be hot, he is older best I think he could hope for, with LOTS of surgeries and implants would be to pass, even then..everyone will know.
You might be surprised at what can be done without surgery. In my case, one of my therapist said I was to masculine to pass. Maybe so but I have had no difficulty moving in society for over 36 years. Even for those of us who don't pass well, escape from the the years of dysphoria is an acceptable tradeoff.

7 – what are some good articles or resources? I found ->-bleeped-<-, huffingtonpost, any others out there, any with stories I might read?
There is a ton of information on this site because many members post their personal stories. In addition, we try to help SOs as much as possible because we understand how difficult it is for them. Feel free to post any questions you have in the SO forum and we will try our best to answer them.

Home4U,
   I know this has got you in shock. I would suggest not panicking and take a little time before you make a lot of big decisions. I would ask you to consider not thinking you were deceived by your husband. As a natal born woman it is hard, I imagine, to understand the immense pressure your spouse was under to keep this secret. He probably would have loved to tell you. I am male to female. When you keep this secret, you keep it because you are convinced you will lose everyone you love. It is a horrible thing to have and not be able to tell anyone. The guilt, and shame of thinking you are not normal, make you deny it. You hope it goes away. I kept this secret from nearly everyone for over fifty years. It only got stronger. He is not doing it to be "hot." If he is like me, he is doing it because there is nothing else he can do. He has to, to retain his sanity. I have transitioned at great risk to everything in my old life. There is nothing convenient or logical about it, it just is the way we were formed.
   I won't bore you with too much of my story, but I stayed with my wife. I had told only her a long time ago. She says that the female part of me, Monica, is the person she fell in love with. She is so glad to be rid of the angry frustrated, emotionally withdrawn person I was when I was torn up with denial. We sleep together and are intimate. Yes it is possible. Only you  will know if it will work for you. The one thing to remember is that you need time to make adjustments. You deserve respect in this and you deserve to be listened to. Even if you don't decide to stay as you are, I hope you will still support each other. He  did not do this to hurt you.
   If I can ever answer any questions, I would be glad to try to help. Take care of yourself, Hon!
Monica

I just don't know what to think of this, all at a time of the year when we are supposed to be celebrating with joy.

I was at our families today and my brother says to my husband with out knowing, "you might as well turn in your man card" it was some off comment about something in the news. I can tell it hit home with him because in a way, he never had a man card :( and of course he chuckled and laughed about it but I could almost read what he was thinking. And it made me mad because I look at him and I see someone who is in hiding and not being real with those that love him.

I'm having some drinks tonight, I need to think about this, and maybe I'll call him out on some of this too. I love him, and I need this to get figured out and I need him to be real with me! is this about him being gay? is this about a mid life crisis? is this because he is just unhappy with me?

Please don't think she's doing this to hurt you or because she's unhappy with your relationship.  It took some massive courage and likely years of pain to come out to you. 

You keep touching on being gay.....if you mean a lesbian, then yes, it sound like she is gay.  However, if you believe this is some excuse so that she can begin being with men, that's probably not the case.  The gender you are and your sexuality are not tied to one another.  Being a woman, doesn't mean she wants to date men. 

It sounds like she loves you very much and hopes that you will try to be understanding and supportive.....breath a bit, be sensitive to the years of pain and try to listen.  You might find that the woman inside is what you fell in love with.

Quote from: home4u on December 21, 2016, 07:26:24 PM
I need him to be real with me! is this about him being gay? is this about a mid life crisis? is this because he is just unhappy with me?

   If I had to guess it has been with him a long time. I started with these feelings at four years old. It is an incredibly strong feeling of needing to be the other gender. Being transgender isn't about being gay, indulging any type of whim, or about being unhappy with a partner. It is about how that person sees himself/herself. You are right you need to be honest with each other.
Monica

It isn't about you. We struggle with this and try very hard to fit into society. For a while we often do but we pay a price for it. Over time the price becomes to great and the only escape is to become ourself. I was one of the few who understood the damage this would cause and in my mid teens, I decide no relationships until this was resolved. That took until I was 30 so I missed out on a good deal of what life has to offer. Most of us attempt some type of normal life but we are constantly fighting with our feelings so we may not be putting 100% into the relationship.

The second part is gender identity and sexual preference are entirely different. You can think of it as sexual preference is who you want to go to bed with and gender identity is who you want to go to bed as. Your spouse has not been truthful about gender identity but has been truthful about sexual preference.

I hope the best for you. I'd like to help but I've never been married so I won't attempt it.

Quote from: home4u on December 21, 2016, 01:45:55 PM
1 – How hard is it really to stay with someone that is transgender? I don't think I'm a lesbian but I do find women to be beautiful I could maybe see us staying together but will our love stay? I'm concerned we will just be good friends if we stay together. I don't want that. I want love.

My wife who knew from Day 1, some 40 years ago I had "gender issues", still cannot answer this question after I dropped the T-Bomb on her 7 years ago. This, as you know, has totally redefined the relationship, especially shared visions of a shared future.

Bottom line, One day at a time. People grow apart. They can grow together. They can do both.

Quote2 – What If I no longer want sex with this person, am I destined to be with out sex rest of my life?

Especially if their breasts are nicer then yours? Tee shirt maybe?

Or, an option/condition my wife insisted on before actually getting married, basically an open marriage. Sex is sex. Love is different.

Quote3 – Do people love and stay together but move to separate rooms?

YMMV. Studies show various outcomes.

Quote4 – What if he starts liking guys...

My wife's greatest fear. Neither of us can know what will be the outcome of me actually learning what it is to be ME. Seven years into that process I have some idea. Still "The US" is more important then the me.

Quote5- He wants the surgery to remove his testes, says he despises these *things*... won't that destroy sex?

Sex is "Between the ears"... mostly. YMMV. I suspect it is a safe bet to say if he hates the dangly bits and despises having them, he wasn't big on sex either?

Quote6- Him being an older male, I don't get why he wants to do this now.. I'm confused. He won't be hot, he is older best I think he could hope for, with LOTS of surgeries and implants would be to pass, even then..everyone will know.

If I had a dollar for every time my wife said "No sane person WANTS to be a 50 y/o woman" followed be her top 10 list of reasons why.....

I'm 6ft tall, big everything, balding since 14, deeper then average male voice, and had 2 failed transition experiments back in my early 20's late teens. Now 60, still about the same physically except almost bald, I have no surgeries on my radar. I have achieved my dream of being seen as and treated as a woman. BTW - I still live and present primarily as male

Quote7 – what are some good articles or resources? I found ->-bleeped-<-, huffingtonpost, any others out there, any with stories I might read?

I often like to remind others with GD that we likely spent an entire lifetime trying to get some sort of a handle on these feelings. An SO has had mere milli-Seconds in comparison to try to take in "The Talk".

TBH - the most important resource(s) you have is your mouth and your ears. The second most important thing that kept my wife and I together through all this has been the oft times difficult open and honest discussions. (THE most important is the love we have for each other. But as she will often say "What does love have to do with it?"). Keep in mind you and he both will have raw, unfiltered... "blurts". Try not to let the emotions expressed drive the message. These are emotion filled discussions for sure.

He may, or may not, have a clear vision of himself or a future. It may change day by day, hour by hour even. "I don't know" is a valid response. You need to be judge of the truthfulness.

Perhaps even a joint session with his therapist as a moderator?

There are plenty of books, videos, other voices out there, including myself. There is only one voice that matters in your world. Your spouses.

It's not about a problem with you, if she says she's lesbian identified then start by believing that.

here is what gets me, i knew this guy, am married to him for years, didnt see this really.

im looking back and i dont see it. except him being kinky in the bedroom with toys, and his bi experiences as a younger boy. maybe were signs...

now he comes out and says. hey i want to be a womn, i want to wear makeup and have a sex change and im a lesbian.

where did this come from? how did he hide it from me so well for years and years. he was a guy.. a guys guy when i married him. where did that person go.

im baffled. i feel like he had a stroke And now there is this other person im talking to.

Dear Home 4U,

   This must be very disorienting for you. Your spouse has most likely hidden this for a long time. He did not ask for this. No one asks to have  to deal with this. It is unfair to him. Now it is unfair and deeply distressing for you. I really hope you will eventually be able to see this as something that you both try to coop with together (as spouses or as friends). The core of the person you have always known is still there. I am not surprised that you didn't know. I came out to over 200 people. No one saw it coming. When you have transgender type feelings, you are terrified someone will know your secret. I walked as masculine as I could for fear that someone would discover my secret. There is a famous navy seal who is male to female. The person we present ourselves to be is many times a denial of our transgender nature, sometimes it is just plain self preservation in the world we live in. We are regular, caring human beings who want to hate or hurt no one. Your spouse is probably feeling scared and horrified to have anyone hurt by this. I  hope you will take a little time to breathe. I hope you will talk with each other. Honesty going forward is so important. Please remember this is about you as  well as your spouse. Your feelings are so in need of being heard and respected. Please  feel free to ask questions or express  your feelings here.
Monica

Unfortunately we have years to prefect the act that we put on for others. In my case, I knew at 13 but didn't come out till I was 23. Others suppress what they feel until they are no longer able to contain it. For the most part your SO will not change but will instead express things that were suppressed for years. I still have many of the same interest and desires that I had as a male but there are now things I allow myself to do that I didn't before. I still program computers, I still know electronics, I still know how to fix my car and I still care for others however I care for others more than before now I am no longer fighting with myself.

Medically, we become transgender before birth. Some of us start expressing as early as age 3 or 4. Others like me are hit with it in our teens. Many on the site suppress it and figure it out latter in life, sometimes in their 60s or 70s. There may have been signs but it's not your fault for missing them. You were told nothing and you are not trained to spot the very few clues you might have had.

As you get to know your SO better you may grow closer and the few remaining secret will be ended. Your SO will become happier and will want to share that with you. I know it will take some adjustment but I think it will be worth it for you to give it a try.

Quote from: home4u on December 23, 2016, 05:28:55 PM
here is what gets me, i knew this guy, am married to him for years, didnt see this really.



im looking back and i dont see it. except him being kinky in the bedroom with toys, and his bi experiences as a younger boy. maybe were signs...

now he comes out and says. hey i want to be a womn, i want to wear makeup and have a sex change and im a lesbian.

where did this come from? how did he hide it from me so well for years and years. he was a guy.. a guys guy when i married him. where did that person go.

Your husband probably did not want to notice it, may have repressed it all of their life, may not have even known most people do not even consider these things, I for one thought everyone had these feelings, come to find out no one really does.  Society seems to have deemed us as monsters, we are constantly villainized, who would want to admit to themselves that this is how they are.  It takes some of us years, to finally accept it ourselves.

Quote from: home4u on December 23, 2016, 05:28:55 PM
im baffled. i feel like he had a stroke And now there is this other person im talking to.

This person, is the one who has always existed behind closed doors, they have accepted themselves for who they are, the veil has been torn, and what you see now is the full person. 

I'm sorry this has happened to you, and I'm sorry it happened to your husband as well.  I just came out to my wife about a month ago, and I felt incredibly guilty doing so, I thought I could forever just fight these feelings, I thought it was something I could beat, but it wore away at me little by little.  I wish I could say something that would make it easier for you, it is not your fault at all, so don't blame yourself.  It is not really your husband's fault either, as this society has more or less told us to repress such feelings all of our lives, we went with such advice, and it did not work. 

I didn't find out I'm a partial transmale until 2013, when I was 61 years old. In my case, I took care of the panic attacks, depression, and dysphoria by taking a Thai herb used here in Thailand for back pain. It not only stopped dysphoria, but blended my male and female personalities, so the conflict is gone.

I went through my entire life, married, with children, doing my duty as a female as much as I could, but not really interested in all the domestic aspects. I played with my kids, taught them to ride horses, skip stones, climb trees, track wild animals in the woods, play musical instruments, speak other languages..I was more like a jolly uncle to them than a typical "mother." I moved to Thailand in 2010 to teach ESL, but partly because of dysphoria issues. I never felt like I "fit in."

Meanwhile, my 6'1" former Navy pilot, former airline pilot ex-husband, who could climb a rope hand-over-hand to the top of our maple tree and back down without touching the rope with his feet, was fussy, ironed his clothes, is the one to persuade me to attend family gatherings (I thought they were annoying and boring), would do my housework if I so much as paused to turn my back to put something away, gave me two-hour footrubs each night, and read to me, wrote me beautiful cards recently came out to me as non-binary female and said he is going to start taking hormones and live as a female.

People do what they must to survive, and many times people don't realize the problem themselves. Neither my ex husband nor I knew we were at least partially transgender, or that dysphoria was behind our feelings of depression, frustration, and despair at life.

If someone actually takes the step to transition, it's usually because there's no other choice. In my case, I'm only partially transmale, and I live in Thailand where my condition is seen as normal, so I simply dress androgynously like most of the rest of the people here, and go on with my life.

I blame the patriarchal evangelical Christian gender binary as the root of the problem..condemning anyone who doesn't fit in a certain "gender box."

Here in Thailand, Buddhist Thai accept a Third Gender, so people with mixed genders are left in peace to live their lives, expressing their gender identities as they wish.

*

Rather than repeat what others have said and add those comments to the growing stack of supportive information to you, allow me to present another history.

Until 'marriage equality', married partners were obligated to separate and divorce in most states.  In other words, no matter how secure the marriage - trans and all - the laws imposed the partners take adversarial positions.

Nowadays, you and your spouse can stay together and remain married and retain your healthy life together.

She is becoming a better person now that she is revealing her true identity to you.  No more does she present that facade causing her pain, including the pain of fear hurting you and all your family - immediate and extended.  She waited all these years to build this bond of trust.  She needs you to stay with her on your journey of this next chapter of life that you both will share.

She worked on her circumstance her entire life; you are now beginning to face her dilemma for the first time.  You are both in transition.

As for age, one member of my local support group had her GCS / SRS last year at age 70.  Ya know what, the process rejuvenated her - she has the look and vigor of a 40-years old.

Please, work through this.  Every question that you posed contains an answer that your open minds will accept.

Yep, as Dena wrote, make your next stop to the SO (significant other) section.

PS:  You were concerned.  While everyone is different (YMMV) - even among cis-females - post-op M-F trans have as satisfying a life with their female spouse, maybe more so, because they no longer have those dreaded dysmorphic anatomical parts to get in the way (mentally and physically).

*

ok I have time for some more complete thoughts.

First, people change and grow and very few people like change. I don't intend to minimize your difficulties but on the other hand these are first world problems.

Second, I would suggest you not escalate by preparing for the worst right off. The math of separation is the same now as later.

Third, you said at the start you fear she's gay and then in a later post that she'd been bisexual when younger. That just says to me she's open enough to explore and probably when younger was confused about things she's come to understand since (yes, I'm using female pronouns, your husband identifies as female so that seems appropriate).

Like many who've responded, I'm 60 and as it happened just yesterday I got my surgery date. Unlike your husband I knew I was trans 20 years ago -- still pretty late in life but I've had and taken my time to deal with it.

My partner knew from the start of our relationship that I'm trans and she wasn't a fan of HRT or surgical transition and for partly that and for personal reasons I decided not to pursue that 15 years ago. Since then we've lived as girls socially together, I present as male to most of the world and our sexuality has been OK in that she has liked that I've been male-equipped.

But by a couple of years back I was back to severely depressed and ultimately I've decided as you've gathered I needed to transition starting with estrogen HRT which was really an experiment to see if I was happier. I've known I'm a feminine thinker for all that time and there was no question I'm happier without testosterone. There is no going back, quite literally i'd rather die.

Our sexuality has been OK, it took a while for my post-estrogen libido to stabilize. I could probably continue to function as sexually male for ever but clearly it's a path that would just dead-end in another few years and for a host of other reasons this is the best timing for me. I don't regret having waited but I don't want to wait longer either.

To answer some of your questions

Late-onset transexual women are more often lesbian identified after they transition. Attraction does not usually change.

I suggest you read anything by Julia Serano. She's very much a trans activist and so there are some leanings in her writing that may not appeal to you however she speaks to a lot of fundamental truths about what it is like to be transgender.

Transition doesn't have to spell the end of sex. I'm at fully feminine hormone levels and can still engage in relatively hetero style sex and I do it mostly to make my partner happy. I'm also becoming more comfortable in a more feminine sexuality and she is becoming accepting with exposure. Remember, the feminine side if me has always been who she cared for as a person.

I'd also like to add that because your husband has just had a lot of feelings that have been building for a lot of years come together, she's probably going to be a bit obsessive about her path. You might be able to help her see that and to be more grounded.

The age she transitions at or whether she can ever be objectively pretty isn't the point. Not so long ago surgeons would only do SRS for 'pretty' patients. It shouldn't be a beauty contest. Our society loves to say real beauty is within but sometimes has trouble acting on that.

For me the choice was spiraling depression or transition. What I've learned is I needed to be a healthy person first and then I was able to figure out that I also need to be a healthy female. Best wishes to you both.

I put my wife in a similar situation to that which your husband put you and wanted to share some thoughts with you.  In my case, the confession was to crossdressing rather than wanting to fully transition butmy wife interpreted it as if it was an admission of the latter.  In addition, my transgender feelings go further than just wanting to put on a wig, a dress and a pair of heels so hopefully, I can provide you with some insight.

Let's look at your husband's situation first of all.  He has either kept these feelings from you through the whole of your married life or they have only just surfaced in the past year or two.  Which is it?  My money is on the former which, I think, is where the majority of us sit.  The next question, of course, is why didn't he tell you?  When I came clean to my wife after 20+ years of marriage, the deception caused her far more hurt than the fact that her husband had this 'hobby'.  I have done a lot of soul searching about this and came to the following conclusions about this:

1.  I knew all along that I was deceiving her and knew it was wrong.  However, the feelings I had about wanting to experience the female world were far stronger and could not be ignored.
2.  At the time I met my wife, I felt that what I was doing was a dirty perversion (which, in all honesty, is how it was viewed in the 1980s/90s with the press sensationalising 'sex changes' at any available opportunity) and, therefore, I ran the risk of losing her if I told her at the time.
3.  With the rush of love, my urges went away and I genuinely believed I was 'cured'
4.  I got a real kick out of seeing my wife wearing the dresses, heels & makeup and, as a result felt that this, rather than the need to actually wear the clothes, was at the root of my issues.

Obviously, as the years went by, the marriage became more of a routine, the heels got lower, kids came along and my transgender feelings started to resurface.  I then went into the cycle of buy-wear-purge that plagues closeted transgender individuals.  In addition, I also found that whereas there had been a sexual element to dressing when younger, all I felt now was a feeling of total calm as if this was how I was always meant to be.  My dysphoria comes and goes; sometimes I spend several weeks just dealing with a nagging wish that I had been born female (but with no desire to put things right), other times I get the full blown anxieties and have to fight the desire to transition (which I do fight firstly because this is a condition I wish I didn't suffer from and really want to be 'normal' (whatever that is) for my wife and kids and secondly because I know the feelings will subside again (because they always do).

Turning to you, you now feel cheated, bewildered, worried, angry, confused and all of the other emotions one would expect anyone to feel in this situation and you have every right to feel that way.  It's your marriage as much as your husband's and they must respect that.  Whilst they have every right to have transgender feelings, you have every right to react as you wish including ending the marriage which you alluded to in your initial post.  You clearly can't change how your husband feels but not only should they expect you to see their point of view but they must be able to see yours too.

After I came out to my wife, I was thinking 'it's only crossdressing' but my wife was fearing that it was a precursor to more permanent changes and she did not want to be married to a woman.  The 'lightbulb' moment for me in understanding her point of view was when I asked myself how I would feel if the tables were turned - in other words I was the 'normal' one and she had confessed that she had always wished she was male.  Yes I would have stood by my wife (as she has done with me) but if that then developed into a desire to transition and having to watch the woman I love gradually change through hormones, mastectomy, genital surgery and everything else that that transition entails, I know that I would not have been able to continue in the marriage.  At best we would have become housemates but I think that would be exceptionally painful too.

The important thing for you and your husband now is to talk, talk and then talk some more (possibly by going to therapy together).  You need to understand what is going on in their mind but, equally, they need to understand your point of view - marriage is an equal partnership and even if your husband is dead set on transitioning to female, this must not be done in ignorance of your emotional situation.

I hope this helps,

Amanda

Quote from: home4u on December 23, 2016, 05:28:55 PM
how did he hide it from me so well for years and years. he was a guy.. a guys guy when i married him. where did that person go....

After an LTR followed by a marriage of 3 years, followed by her discovering my transness, followed by her within a short time seeing other guys, followed by a separation and divorce I can say this pretty much followed my expectation of what would happen if someone "Discovered" my deepest darkest secret.

After a few too many adult beverages a year or so into seriously dating another woman which led to a "My deep dark secret is worse then yours" talk in which she won that one, a year or so later we got engaged, a year or so after that wedding date pressures began to mount, which led to her cutting and running because I wasn't "A real man". I can say this pretty much followed my expectation of what would happen if someone was told of my deepest darkest secret.

You basically get the message early on in life of what the expectations are for a person of your birth gender... As well as the knowledge of what happens to those that do not completely conform to those expectations. Which, in the male kid world, is pretty brutal and cruel. So like most other guys, or even more so, you try your best to out guy the guys the best ways you can. Which often includes being hyper-masculine or an adrenaline junkie.

Quoteim baffled. i feel like he had a stroke And now there is this other person im talking to.

There may also be the "Coming Out Euphoria Factor" as I call it. The Trans-Beast is now being taken on. The BIG Step, the seemingly impossible "How can I do this?" one of telling an SO you are trans is now over with. Now it's the easy stuff, Damn the Torpedoes. Full Speed Ahead! Which is where therapy can be useful if one is not near the "Transition or Die" point. Just tons of baggage from being trans that often messes up ones life and others in it. An experienced Gender Therapist knows what questions to ask and real world situations to role-play / thought experiment with to interject the cold hard realities of life vs the idealized and often fantasized way "Life will Be" once you transition.

Please forgive me for this very long reply.  Your initial posting really struck a chord in me and I felt the need to offer my experience for you to consider.

It is hard to add much additional advice to that already offered.  The posts by Amanda (aaajjj55) and SadieBlake really get to the central issues, IMHO.  You chose well to come here for advice--that is why I chose to add a reply to this thread--the advice I received here has helped me to get through some very difficult times.  I hope my experience will give you some insight into the problems your husband may be facing and how it feels to be him.  It has taken the better part of 6 decades but I am quite sure I am internally largely female psychologically, male physically and nearly 60 years into the struggle between the two.

I joined this site in early August of this year.  As background, I'm 59 years old, married for over 30 years, have 2 grown children and one 2 year old grandson.  I'm an academic physician and  researcher at a very well known major university hospital and university with research collaborators at numerous major universities worldwide.  I not only run a large, very successful research group but also quite visibly head several key clinical programs and am extensively involved in the teaching programs from medical students to post-doctoral fellows.  I have administrative roles in out department, collaborations with industry, and  on and on and on.  You get the picture--I've got a lot of life infrastructure, a lot at risk for disruption or loss.  The curious part of the story is that my wife, whom I love very very much, is a psychotherapist. albeit one that works primarily with children and adolescents.''  Unfortunately, insight she offers to her patients does not extend to her ability to apply those insights to her own life.

From my earliest memories, dating to just short of age 3, I was intensely interested in how things work; later science in general, mathematics, ameteur astronomy and telescope building, things electronic, radio communications adn eventually Ameteur Radio, classical music, art photography and as an adolescent had an obsessional need to learn to draw and paint.  As an observation, you will find a disproportionate representation of the scientific and technical professions represented in the membership of this site. I don't think this is due to an attempt to bury the TG urge in a hypermasculine profession.  In my own case, this was balanced by a sharply contrasting urge toward things aesthetic and artistic.  I never liked team sports. I new I was a bit odd or different.

I am sure there is some more fundamental link.  In any case, I ended up with several careers before this one and as avocational interests did some quite serious photography and developed an unusually intense interest in classical music beginning at about age 9.  By the time I was in elementary school, it became shockingly clear to me that  I tended to easily develop strong friendships with the girls in school, more so that other male peers.  This did not seem a problem and caused no problem but was obviously different that most of the other boys.  Things changed with hormones--I was uncomfortable with puberty and the pressure toward dating.  I understood the girls emotionally and identified with them.  I felt  emotionally similar to them, very different from the guys. I ended up in a private boarding prep school which fortuitously was at all male.  This relieved much of the pressure I felt around puberty allowing me to submerge these perplexing feelings. 

I had discovered I had interests in women's clothing and found fascination with typically female  socialization, dress, grooming, etc.  It was not obsessional, never became a fetish interest, never struck me as "sick" or perverse.  I had not really experimented with crossdressing at this time I never had any sort of gay male urge whatsoever.  I did tend to have certain very well chosen male friends but they were usually somewhat odd or eccentric in their interests, or had specific interest that paralleled mine academically or avocationally such as in radio or photography.  I was never a man's man; not the sort you'd see parodied in the extreme in a date movie, not a "basic bro."  On the other hand, I don't think anyone ever suspected me to be gay or having gay gestures or behaviors or would characterize my behavior as effeminate.

As adulthood marched on, I trained myself to  suppress much of this uncomfortable gender confusion.  I ended up in college with many friends and dating a few women, in each case developing very intense relationships.  One  was with a wonderful woman that I would characterize as a soulmate but the relationship did not work out. It took me decades to figure out why, though.  Both of us had at the time unrecognized gender issues--she, lesbian tendencies; I underlying TG confusion.   I ultimately met my wife in graduate school, we married, had our kids, and life went on in the usual flurry of career, moves, family.  Mostly, I was highly motivated to date and marry for all the right reasons.  I did indeed fall in love with my wife and continue to love her even more intensely today.  In the throws of high testosterone levels in my 20's it was easy to follow this trajectory toward the classical family existence, other gender issues almost  completely suppressed.  Almost.  It was about at this time that the first inkling of serious urge to crossdress began.  I'd obtain single items of clothing, usually undergarments, which would rapidly generate intense guilt and shame for me that I would "purge" them.  This continued for years, only emerging every few years.

It is critical for me to point out that I am not a classically defined crossdresser.  Actually, the clothing means very little to me, per se.  Other member of the forum will need to allow me some license in what I am about to say as it is a gross oversimplifications to be sure, but one that will illustrate my point.  I new I was not a classical crossdresser.  I gained not sexual stimulation from crossdressing, didn't do it as an "artform" or performance (e.g. drag),  didn't want to use it for female hypersexualization.  I simply had an affinity for the idea of expressing internal female identification.  It seemed right to dress as a woman since I knew with increasing certainty, that is what I was internally and psychologically.  When dressing congruently with my internal gender there is no sexual component for me.  I tend to dress like a typical approaching 60 year old perhaps slightly frumpy woman off for the weekend around the house.  I don't look like I'm doing to a formal event, not overly made up, not dressed like I'm trying to look like an oversexed 20 year old.  For me, the goal is calming, relieving my gender dysphoria, soothing the need for internal gender expression.  When the episode is over, typically following a weekend alone,  house to myself for 2-3 days; I would often be hit by a tsunami of gender dysphoria returning to my male presentation.

Once the kids were grown and out of the house, pressures of day to day family life decreased, I found the gender issued roared back with a vengeance.  I could speculate on the mechanisms driving this emergence--clealry numerous including middle aged decline in testosterone concentrations.  Initially, the few items of clothing became a small wardrobe; all hidden away, my wife entirely unaware.  How many major cycles of this acquisition-purging?  Several over the last about 10 years, each with increasing intensity of guilt and internal emotional strife;  each with the soul searching and questioning whether to disclose to my wife.  As others have discussed, this is a veritable hell to live in.  I have never kept anything from my wife but this.  I have never had event the slightest deviation from complete marital fidelity over going on 35 years but this.  I see this as a collision of worlds, ultimate conundrum for me internally.  I have never had the urge to end my own life over it, but I can easily understand how this leads to levels of internal strife, pain and despair causing suicide.  I'm sure I speak for most of us who have replied here. 

I wrote all this to lead up to the following.   In August of this year, all of this came to a head for me.  I found myself working at home on a research paper dressed as "Steph."   I was in a period of intense gender dysphoria which I was hoping to mitigate at least to some degree by dressing congruently.  It was not working, I was feeling more and more despair.  I had read the Susan's forum many times but never participated, surely part of my denial of the reality of my gender discordance and underlying TG nature.  I can't tell you what finally led to formally joining the forum but in any case I did, wrote about my "predicament" only to find a community of many like spirits.  Several of the forum members offered support and insight that finally gave me the courage to seek psychotherapy and fully confront this reality central to my life.  Therapy has made all the difference for me.  Unlike many you will meet on this forum, I do not have the body dysphoria that is part of your husband's case.  I was able to simply embrace the nature of my personality structure and mainly female psychological attributes without dichotomizing my situation into male vs. female gender.  I'd love to get up in the morning and get dressed, interact socially, play out more traditional gender based roles as a woman.  Happily, I did not ultimately need to take measures to make this happen.

Therapist come in all flavors and types.  I chose one whom I knew would be able to look at my entire situation bringing a somewhat agnostic approach to the therapy.  There are some therapists who I suspect are insufficiently skeptical of the diagnosis up front and do not do diagnostic due diligence before forging ahead into plans for transition.  This leads to the main point of my post:  Not all need to transition; not all can reasonably manage the logistics of transition.  Given the complexity of my situation, particularly at work, I could not imaging how I would navigate gender transition while keeping my role intact. With respect to my relationship with my wife, I cautiously probed this question carefully with her over the years without disclosure of my situation.  It was very clear to me that her response should I disclose my gender concerns and TG nature would be based on the perception of being victim of a sustained dishonesty and  betrayal, one which would overshadow any other consideration, terminating our marriage.

For these 2 reasons I judged it would need to be an act of absolute despiration to transition or even come out.  I was fortunate that my therapist offered substantial help to me to come to a better understanding of my internal psychological milieu, also urging me to resume a meditation practice I had abandoned a number of years ago, and guided me to a place where I am pretty happy, not distressed, functioning normally in my work and life as a whole.  Whether this will be a sustained solution it to be seen but I am quite confident it is.

If I lived on a desert island, I suspect I would have found the decision to transition fairly easy to make.  Given the complexities of real life and the good fortune I had to be able to navigate a non-transition solution that allows me to function and go on comfortably with my life, I chose not to; no, I was fortunately able to avoid it.  There were some moments early on when I was becoming nearly resigned to the need to do some sort of transition whether low dose hormones or something else, disclose to my wife, face likely loss of my marriage--just to relieve the unbearable guilt and intense pain of gender dysphoria. 

I have only the greatest respect and admiration for my friends and other TG individuals who facing similar gender incongruity have bravely gone on to full transition.  Their examples in most cases are nothing short of heroic.  A feature which only further intensified my dysphoria and despair when grappling with my gender was the sense of being too weak of personality, feeling too cowardly to disclose and transition.  With therapy and the support from the wonderful people on this forum, I gained the insight that I was being far too hard on myself.  My decisions were not as simple as questions of bravery vs. cowardice.  To the contrary, they were driven by overwhelming sense of obligation to my wife, family and extensive network of student and colleagues.  I had determined that I did not need to create the disruption of many lives to serve the needs and happiness of just one. 

This was my solution, but I think I am probably one of the exceptions.  I am certain your husband has not made this decision lightly.  I am sure he would have been very happy to be a "plain vanilla" cis-gendered husband if this were possible.  If he has come to the point of disclosure to you and expressed desire to transition, the need is clear. 

As others have posted, this is not primarily about you but I assure you, your husband did not make this decision lightly and without consideration of its impact upon you or your marriage.  If you love him, try to help him through this difficult time.  It is impossible to know the specifics of the outcomes for either of you or your marriage with any certainty at this point.  Please do not do that which I am very certain would be the response of my wife, a snap conclusion and end of marriage.

I would say good luck, but luck isn't what you need,  love, empathy and understanding is what will get you through. Continue to educate yourself. If in the end, if you can't make it work, you can split up. But you don't need to be angry or hateful. It's a good bet your husband is feeling guilty. This will allow you two to work things out,.....whichever way it goes, because (s)he will bend over backwards to appease your wants. But if you put them in the corner, berate them, threaten them or make them make decisions antithetical to their needs, you will find yourself in contention and everything will be much harder. This is not a choice they've made. This was most likely their last option. Understand that first.
      Sort your feelings out and make your decisions. In the end, it's all up to you. You will be the decider of whatever comes your way. Whether it is ugly or beautiful. Whether you can nurture your love or another course is best for all. I hope the very best for you and your relationship. We're all here for moral support for both of you.     Lisa

Quote from: Steph Eigen on December 24, 2016, 11:24:34 AM
....
I have only the greatest respect and admiration for my friends and other TG individuals who facing similar gender incongruity have bravely gone on to full transition.  Their examples in most cases are nothing short of heroic.  A feature which only further intensified my dysphoria and despair when grappling with my gender was the sense of being too weak of personality, feeling too cowardly to disclose and transition.  With therapy and the support from the wonderful people on this forum, I gained the insight that I was being far too hard on myself.  My decisions were not as simple as questions of bravery vs. cowardice.  To the contrary, they were driven by overwhelming sense of obligation to my wife, family and extensive network of student and colleagues.  I had determined that I did not need to create the disruption of many lives to serve the needs and happiness of just one. 

This was my solution, but I think I am probably one of the exceptions.  I am certain your husband has not made this decision lightly.  I am sure he would have been very happy to be a "plain vanilla" cis-gendered husband if this were possible.  If he has come to the point of disclosure to you and expressed desire to transition, the need is clear. 

As others have posted, this is not primarily about you but I assure you, your husband did not make this decision lightly and without consideration of its impact upon you or your marriage.  If you love him, try to help him through this difficult time.  It is impossible to know the specifics of the outcomes for either of you or your marriage with any certainty at this point.  Please do not do that which I am very certain would be the response of my wife, a snap conclusion and end of marriage.

Steph has said a lot of this better than I did, I want to pickup this bit.

I made the same decision not to disrupt things 15 years ago and I knew when I decided last year that I needed to transition that the response of my partner would be as negative as it had been when I was first considering.

And so I started hormones before telling her because I needed to know decide whether it helped without having that emotionally laden conversation.

So on the one hand I was open with her (and most people who know me well) the from outset about being trans however in areas where my partner or others were judgmental or hurtful then necessarily there were things I hid. One of those was the decision to not proceed to transition in the first place. While I long since accepted that it was my decision and responsibility, I can't help but have some feelings about how she just shut down many conversations feeling that it was all about her.

Steph, you may come to a time when you need to be more true to yourself.

For me I got to a point where in not being me, I could no longer be good for others either.

OP, I hope this is useful to you.

Thanks, SadieBlake. 

Just to be 100% clear, the point of my post was not to use my example as a basis to argue against transition or for the suppression of the suppressed feminine gender characteristics.   Just to the contrary.  I entered therapy entirely unsure of the outcome that would result, unsure whether I would be left with not option but to transition in some way or to some extent to manage the disabling dysphoria that plagued my everyday life.  For many, the only option is transition; the alternative, literally, death.

In the short term I judge myself fortunate that I was not forced to dramatically alter and  potentially negatively impact many lives of those I love and of valued  colleagues as well force a very difficult and troublesome overhaul of my life with almost certain loss of my marriage. 

I live in the shadow of gender dysphoria, an awful beast.  For now, the beast has been brought under control, beaten into submission.   I very consciously recognize the potential for it to re-emerge forcing me once again to face the question of transition and all it entails.  I've been entirely open and honest to myself having chosen a solution that represents the best combination of outcomes for me at many different levels.  Short of having the proverbial crystal ball, I cannot know what the future holds.

Steph

I'm on the other side of the story. I'm 46 married for 19 years and I discovered rather explosively
this year I'm transgender and polysexual. Don't ask how it could have been hidden in my mind even
for myself, but it did.

1 – How hard is it really to stay with someone that is transgender? I don't think I'm a lesbian but I do find women to be beautiful I could maybe see us staying together but will our love stay? I'm concerned we will just be good friends if we stay together. I don't want that. I want love.

I do love my wife, and she does love me, but ... she has her own needs and fulfilment. She needs a man, who looks
at her, as a man looks at a woman, has that connection. I hope we can stay together, because of what we share, but
it will be hard, because their is enough that separates us. It will hurt a lot if she leaves, but I cannot put my needs above hers

2 – What If I no longer want sex with this person, am I destined to be with out sex rest of my life?

Me and my wife walk a common road, but I now also want a separate road, there is a need in me to be seen as a
woman, not the body, surgery etc. But as in a (sexual) relation as well, i.e. I want the same thing she wants. She
notices now that our sex is better, but different, more carring, but different passion. If we stay together she should
look for the passion she needs.

3 – Do people love and stay together but move to separate rooms?

If you don't want to be close, well, then you don't want to be close

4 – What if he starts liking guys... maybe he already does! He says he only wants to be with me for the rest of his life and he is my person. He says he loves women, only attracted to women, but I have used toys on him in our play in the bedroom for years (strapon and plugs). He says he is a woman and a lesbian and lesbian anything super arouses him. He sees himself as a woman when we make love now, just with a penis.

I noticed that when my gender identity shifted, my sexual attraction shifted as well. I have to admit that I
have for the first time ever experienced a real orgasm (in my head, body, everywhere, except ...) it was an
incredible experience. I am also (sexually) atracted to my wife, but, well, ... there can be change. It requires a
lot of openmindedness from your side. For me it is easier in that respect, I know what is in my head. For someone
outside it is harder to understand and accept I figure


5- He wants the surgery to remove his testes, says he despises these *things*... won't that destroy sex?

For my relation I try to find a balance, I do -not- want surgery. It is a small compromise I think if I know who
I am and my sife learns to accept who I am, and nowing she will have a harder time accepting if I transition
further. Why the need / hurry for me. Sure I would love to live in a female body, but realistically, that's a
dream, can never really reach that anyway.

6- Him being an older male, I don't get why he wants to do this now.. I'm confused. He won't be hot, he is older best I think he could hope for, with LOTS of surgeries and implants would be to pass, even then..everyone will know.

It is not wanting, it heappens. Still to my wife I told it was a kind of choice, but that's self acceptance. She was
feeling as if she dangeld on a wire; How would I change next. So I told that I am happy to be transgender, if someone
would offer a pill to reverse, I would not take it, I am who I am, I do feel better that way, but don't want to transition
further.

I have to admit, for my wife it is harder than for me, as I said I can at least (try to) understand my own head, it comes
from my inside. For my wife she now questions herself, of course I know she didn;t do anything wrong, but that's words, her world is shattered, she's afraid of being "the woman of ...", she's not selfish, she forgievs and cares a lot, but she is hurting. Why do I say this? For a transgender it is fairly easy to become self obsessed, easy to overlook the others, so always speak up for yourslf.

Quote from: SadieBlake on December 24, 2016, 02:21:34 PM
So on the one hand I was open with her (and most people who know me well) the from outset about being trans however in areas where my partner or others were judgmental or hurtful then necessarily there were things I hid. One of those was the decision to not proceed to transition in the first place. While I long since accepted that it was my decision and responsibility, I can't help but have some feelings about how she just shut down many conversations feeling that it was all about her.

Hi Sadie,

I think you make a very fair point.   For years society has treated us like we have the plague.  When you have a spouse pretty well giving you the same vibe, you have every right to be very guarded.  This whole idea that it's only about honesty in a relationship is to the say the least a little unfair.

Paige :)

These threads kind of give me pause. OP is gone for more than a week and the thread keeps rolling along. I suspect she's long gone but the thread takes on a life of its own. We continue to give council to someone that's no longer present. Just weird.

I noted this also and hope the OP bothers to read responses to her last post but for now it seems like a bit bucket.

I am pretty sure she's quite overwhelmed leading to her absence.  I hope she reads what we've collectively written.  Perhaps she'll surface again once she has had some time to consider the situation.

Quote from: jentay1367 on December 29, 2016, 05:12:47 PM
These threads kind of give me pause. OP is gone for more than a week and the thread keeps rolling along. I suspect she's long gone but the thread takes on a life of its own. We continue to give council to someone that's no longer present. Just weird.

Hi Jen,
I always assume that for every person who asks a question on Susans, there are many more interested in the answers. 
Take care,
Paige :)

well we just all went through some major holidays, cooking, hosting, cleaning, gift shopping, and traveling. I'm back now, kind of...it is the new year so busy and I'm trying to figure out what to do next with my partner, can't call him husband cause he wants to be a she.

I'm sorry if I don't participate at a high level here but I do appreciate all of you have taken the time to share with me your thoughts or experiences.

Quote from: home4u on January 01, 2017, 04:14:27 PM
well we just all went through some major holidays, cooking, hosting, cleaning, gift shopping, and traveling. I'm back now, kind of...it is the new year so busy and I'm trying to figure out what to do next with my partner, can't call him husband cause he wants to be a she.

I'm sorry if I don't participate at a high level here but I do appreciate all of you have taken the time to share with me your thoughts or experiences.

Hi, I'm Jean, another wife. I'm also going through this, though I had 18 years to deal with the basic knowledge before transition came up. If you ever need a sympathetic ear, message me for a phone number and we can cry on each others' shoulders.

Quote from: home4u on January 01, 2017, 04:14:27 PM
well we just all went through some major holidays, cooking, hosting, cleaning, gift shopping, and traveling. I'm back now, kind of...it is the new year so busy and I'm trying to figure out what to do next with my partner, can't call him husband cause he wants to be a she.

I'm sorry if I don't participate at a high level here but I do appreciate all of you have taken the time to share with me your thoughts or experiences.

Hey, sorry if I sounded critical, it's just if I see a thread carry evolving with discussion that doesn't include the OP, it seems wise to hold on further speculation.

Glad to see you're still working on it and understand that it's stressful.

On pronouns, I know I was far more adamant about wanting to be gendered according with presentation earlier in the journey and I can tell you that you'll better convey respect to people here if you refer to her by the pronouns she prefers.

I get that it's not easy, I've been working this out with my own partner for 18 years, only difference being I knew I was trans from the start.

Quote from: JeanR on January 01, 2017, 05:35:33 PM
Hi, I'm Jean, another wife. I'm also going through this, though I had 18 years to deal with the basic knowledge before transition came up. If you ever need a sympathetic ear, message me for a phone number and we can cry on each others' shoulders.

Hi Home4U,
   Jean can offer a perspective that we can not. I hope you see from the responses, that the transgender folks here are very eager to help as best we can. There is genuine concern for those we consider our sisters or brothers, but we are very concerned and care about the people they love as well. I know when you first heard of your partner's true self, it is natural to be shocked, maybe angry. I think we are eager to let you know that you partner does not do this to hurt you. Personnally,  I would ask you to look for the good as well as what could be a problem. My wife has known about me for 38 years and I have only just recently transitioned. I asked her how it would be if I went back to guy mode. She was adamant that I am much better, more loving and gentle being my genuine self. She says, no way would she want him back. I tell you this only to point out that there can be some pretty cool things that are possible from all of this. Wishing you the best.
Monica

Monica, my wife shares the same sentiment.....she much prefers me after coming out (currently mentally living as a woman until I can begin my medical journey shortly) and she never wants to go back to the way things were (moody, depressed, angry etc).  She doesn't want "him" back.  We now have the best relationship that we've ever had in the previous 25 years of marriage.  Although we probably weren't ready before this we both agree that we wished that we could have lived authenticity years earlier.

Hii there!

I just would like to share with you my story and how it relates to what you are going through. About five years ago. One night I got caught dressing up by my girlfriend (now my 'ex). She was completely enraged over the whole thing. We didn't speak for the rest of the night. The next morning I had told her my "deepest secret". How I had wished I was a girl an how I've had struggled with this feeling all my life. At first she was confused, upset, mad, and disgusted. Calling me hateful words like "->-bleeped-<-got, queer, homo". Telling me I'm supposed to be a man, I'm supposed to protect her. Saying her father raised her by saying a "man" doesn't act this way. Things where never the same after that. She had begun distancing herself from me. At first she thought that this was something "new". Due to the fact that I have an addictive personality. An she thought if it wasn't drugs then it's something else (I won't go into that). However a few months later she had broke up with me after five years. I then would feel ashamed along with feelings of regret. I truly loved her I really did. She was my world my everything. But she couldn't look past it...=/

I wish the both of you the best. An what ever happens, just know that your husband may be changing his gender appearance but the man who you married an fell in love with is still inside!

That's not the way it works. I keep hearing it from those who are transitioning, but from the other side, it's not the same at all. Basically, what's being said is that YOU are the only thing that matters, and take it or leave it.

In order to maintain a relationship between a spouse and a transitioning person, you're insisting that the spouse gives up everything he or she is inside, his or her own needs, to accommodate the every need of the person who is transitioning.

I call that hypocrisy.

There is something seriously wrong with the current system.

For the most part, we understand that there are some feeling that a spouse can't change just as we can't change our need to transition. If the spouse is bi or willing to settle for a friendship relationship, it works. If not, a divorce is the only solution.

Jean,
This is not a system, therefore not a broken system. While there are various documents that set standards of care for management of transition, your husband has not really arrived at that point.  I urge you not to look for an external "system" or "society" to blame, rather to try to understand the genesis and reality of the situation your husband is facing now with you.  While I am particularly sensitive to the implications of disclosure and coming out to family and spouse, something I was able to avoid needing to do in my own situation, I also realize that this is probably the overwhelming exception rather than the rule.

What you are going through is the shock of the discovery that things are not what they appeared for a very long time.  I assure you, while appearing to be in a state of status quo, equilibrium, normalcy or whatever term one may choose to use, your husband has been suffering with this reality, suppressing it to the best of his abilities for many years. 

I hate to use the illness metaphor since being TG is not an illness; all the same, this metaphor  will help make my point.The illness is NOT being TG, the illness is the struggle felt in the individual between the physical body, social roles, and lack of self realization caused by the submersion of the true gender identity.  All of this leading to the beast known as gender dysphoria.

If your husband were to have a typical medical  illness, injury or needed an operation that resulted in a chang in the basis of your relationship, how would you react to and cope with that change?  I doubt you would have the same reaction you do to the disclosure that he is TG.  As I tried to point out in an earlier post, the needs of each individual facing this reality end up to be particular to that individual.  For most of us with so called "late onset," which really means "late to confront actual gender," the need to transition can be extremely intense.  Without confronting the situation and treating accordingly, commensurate with the intensity of the gender dysphoria present, usually by means of some form of  male to female transition, there is a very high rate of depression and suicide.  It is tempting to react to this situation arguing something along the lines of:  "Why does he want to do this now?  How could this improve his life?  (and the classic:)  Why would this guy want to become a middle aged woman?"  The point is this:  He is not choosing to do this, he needs to do this.  It is a need not a want.  He has a bona fide  medical need to pursue transition to treat the gender dysphoria resulting from the incongruity between his physical sex and socialized gender role as a man and his internal feminine gender identity.

Read this brief piece by A. Vitale, a gender therapist.   This give an excellent insight into the phenomenon of the late onset type MtF TG.  I can speak to the description of the type 3 presentation, as the description of the illustrative case is almost exactly me just short of lying on the office floor in a fetal position in panic:

http://www.thegenderedself.com/TGSintroduction.pdf

Most accept that the internal gender identification is not a matter of choice.  This consensus has been based on a number of data including structural brain imaging showing characteristically female structural findings in MtF TG individuals.  There is the intrauterine DES exposure literature as well that explains the genesis of ->-bleeped-<- in many MtF individuals whose mothers were treated with the drug during pregnancy prior to its removal from use by the FDA in the 1970's.

Please try to understand his situation.  I can assure you there is much empathy here for the situation you face.  It does not change the reality that your husband is TG and will need to find a path to successfully continue his life.  I hope the two of you can grow together struggling through this difficult time.

This is not a shock of disclosure. I've known for 18 years, and watched him slowly transition some of his behavior. He recently decided to get an orchi and start HRT, but it was no shock. I've known this was coming for several years now.

Also, from my understanding, being transgender is not necessarily binary, it's a spectrum, with people who are happy at varying levels of transition to the gender of their inner self.

Also, my husband is not late-onset. He has known since he was young. He saw a TV documentary about sex change operations in the early 1970s and that was when he knew what he was. He hid it carefully after his father beat him for wearing women's stockings at about age 11. It was the only time in his life he was ever beaten by his father.

I lived as a hetero female most of my life, and saw that perspective, although my male side was alive as well, although suppressed.

Females marry for different reasons than men do. I sure did.
They want:

1. protection
2. financial support
3. increased status
4. family and social approval
5. healthy DNA traits for children

Women expect to run things in the marriage; husbands usually don't dare lift a finger without their permission, as women decide everything. The husband's salary is turned over to her. The husband is the one buying jewelry, beautiful clothes, and flowers for the wife.
The husband takes the wife out to dinner, takes her dancing, puts her first at all times.

When a supposed husband suddenly declares himself a woman, then most of these advantages vanish.

1. Instead of gaining protection, the wife will now be seen as lesbian and could incur attacks from religious fanatics.
2. family finances might be diverted to therapy, make-overs, jewelry, new wardrobes, shoes, operations, etc, for the transitioning spouse, possibly bankrupting family finances
3. Family and social approval could turn to ridicule and pity
4. grown children could disapprove, and stay away

If the husband is now a woman, who is in charge? Most women won't let go of the power and might feel threatened when their formerly obedient spouses develop new friends and interests, become increasingly independent.
Now, their dinner dates will look like lesbian outings and former friends might shun them.

Many/most women count the cost and decide it's not worth it, so get divorced. According to the posts I read on this forum, this is often as much a relief for the transitioning husband as the wife, as they now are free to express their female natures without having to placate their disapproving wives, have their own apartments, decorate as they please, etc.

Quote from: JeanR on January 02, 2017, 11:08:43 PM
That's not the way it works. I keep hearing it from those who are transitioning, but from the other side, it's not the same at all. Basically, what's being said is that YOU are the only thing that matters, and take it or leave it.

In order to maintain a relationship between a spouse and a transitioning person, you're insisting that the spouse gives up everything he or she is inside, his or her own needs, to accommodate the every need of the person who is transitioning.

I apologise if what I am about to say causes offence but JeanR has touched on a very important point.  I confessed my transgender feelings to my wife after nearly 20 years of marriage (in my case, the confession centred on cross dressing and the feeling that I wished I'd been female but not, as in the case of the OP's husband, a desire to transition).  Was this something I'd suddenly realised?  Of course not!

Throughout my marriage, I'd been struggling with the fluctuating desire to be female - sometimes overwhelming, sometimes just a nagging thought.  Prior to marriage, I'd experimented with cross dressing on various occasions.  Looking back to my childhood, I'd wanted to play with the girls at school and, at night, had often been a girl in my dreams so the writing had very much been on the wall from an early age.

So why did I confess?  Quite simply because I was becoming increasingly fearful of being found out.  Did I consider my wife's feelings when confessing?  Again, of course not!  And because of that, I blew her life apart firstly as, all of a sudden, she realised I was not the man she thought she was marrying and secondly as I had effectively deceived her for nearly 20 years.  Among many of the points she made at the time, she said that if she'd known at the outset, she wouldn't have married me.

So why didn't I tell her before we married - quite simply, I was ashamed of the way I felt and also, thanks to the rush of love/passion that is a feature of the early stages of a relationship, I thought I'd been 'cured'.  This, in my view is the critical point.  None of us choose to have transgender feelings but what we do about them is, purely and simply, a choice.  Choices sometimes have adverse consequences - in my case, being open and honest would have finished the relationship but keeping quiet caused unimaginable emotional pain to my wife.  To be controversial, unfortunately I, and many others in similar situations, approached this from a very male point of view; yes, in varying degrees we feel, or want to be, female but we have lived our lives as males for several decades and that will inevitably shape our approach to life.  It is this that I think JeanR has articulated so well.

The 'lightbulb' moment for me in all of this was when I stopped to think how I would feel if I was a non-TG male and my wife suddenly confessed that she'd always wished she was male and had now got to the point where she wanted to become male (this was not exactly what I confessed to her but it was what she feared as a progression from what I did confess to).  Yes, s/he would be the same person I married inside but would I be prepared to carry on an intimate relationship with 'him' as a man?  Would I want to be seen holding hands in public?  Would I enthusiastically embrace the changes?  Would I even want to continue a marriage which was originally based not only on an emotional bond but also on sexual attraction (putting it crudely 'fancying' her)?  I'm afraid that the answer is 'no' to every question and we, in the transgender community, have to accept that, whilst we do not choose to be the way we are, what we do thereafter is a choice but we cannot automatically expect those around us to embrace, or even accept, every choice we make.  If we choose to marry without disclosing our TG feelings then the choice is simple - keep quiet for the rest of our lives and live with the anxieties of surpression and fear of being caught or confess at some time with all of the consequences that that can bring.

I would also like to pick up on one other issue that has surfaced in this thread - the choice of gender pronoun.  As a rule, I think it is absolutely right that we use the female pronouns when referring to MTFs and the male pronouns when referring to FTMs.  However, the exception is in the 'Significant Others' threads.  The original poster in this thread is obviously very distressed that her husband has confessed to being trangender after several years of marriage and the use of female pronouns when referring to her husband in replies just feels insensitive as if we're saying 'your husband is TG, get over it'.  Once again, we have to be more sensitive to the feelings of the spouse, even if it's not our own.

To close, I am sorry if any of you found any of these views offensive as I certainly don't wish to offend anyone.  I have a huge amount of respect for this community which, over the past six months has helped me come to terms with my own situation. 

Amanda

Generally speaking, we are lousy husbands, but given the chance, we are loving and supportive spouses. When we tell our wives and they deal with what they perceive as the betrayal aspect, they have three choices.....

1.Prove their true love for you and find a way to make it all work.

2. Prove their true love for you and and divorce you in an adult way because unfortunately, this could never work for them.

3. Prove they never really cared for you at all and become raging bitches while making you pay and pay and pay and pay...financially, emotionally, psychologically and socially, proving they only loved a concept of you that met a narrow socially constricted ideal and never actually who you are.  In this scenario, both parties prove something, you were never her husband and she was never you wife. Everyone was playing a role. Ironically, in the end, you both win.

Quote from: home4u on December 23, 2016, 05:28:55 PM
here is what gets me, i knew this guy, am married to him for years, didnt see this really.

im looking back and i dont see it. except him being kinky in the bedroom with toys, and his bi experiences as a younger boy. maybe were signs...

now he comes out and says. hey i want to be a womn, i want to wear makeup and have a sex change and im a lesbian.

where did this come from? how did he hide it from me so well for years and years. he was a guy.. a guys guy when i married him. where did that person go.

im baffled. i feel like he had a stroke And now there is this other person im talking to.

Hi home4u-

I think that I can speak to this question based on my own experience.

What you saw from her was essentially a very good acting job - she acted like a man because it was expected of her and the costs of anyone finding out she wasn't a man were absolutely unimaginable (ie: possibly lose marriage, job, kids, friends).

In the world that a man lives in any hint of femininity coming from a guy is dealt with harshly by other guys. It is considered shameful and weak by other guys and it is a lesson that boys learn early - ie: boys don't cry, and if you do you'll find yourself beaten up and excluded. Carrying these expectations to "man up" resulted in a unbearable amount of shame and guilt that she has had to carry all of her life.

In my case I knew that I was different and I had it forcefully pointed out to me on the playground in 1st grade. I figured out that acting as my authentic self would only cause me abuse, but if I acted like the other boys I would be accepted and the abuse would stop. So for 50 years I too carried on a charade - I acted like a dude, I got married (for 27 years), I had children, I owned a business, I engaged in risky sports, and almost drank myself to death in the process - and no one knew. My gender dysphoria eventually became unbearable and at 50 I transitioned.

My ex never saw it coming and neither did anyone else. My life depended on me being an impeccable actor impersonating a dude and I was very, very good at it. But it wasn't the real me.

As far as your other questions - some good advice was already given and I won't belabor what was already said except to add that your spouse thought that she could dude up and overpower it. She can't - this is biological, a medical condition, a birth condition - it is not a choice as so many people want to believe.

I would suggest that above all else you communicate, communicate, communicate - be open and honest and don't stifle your feelings - get it out there so that it can be dealt with.

I would also suggest that you make your own decisions as far as what YOU want to do and not what society tells you that you should do. You married a person and that person is still there - you might find that once she transitions you'll like her much more than the fake, angry, depressed person she was pretending to be.

~Eva

Quote from: aaajjj55 on January 03, 2017, 02:17:30 AM

The 'lightbulb' moment for me in all of this was when I stopped to think how I would feel if I was a non-TG male and my wife suddenly confessed that she'd always wished she was male and had now got to the point where she wanted to become male.

Hi Amanda,

I think the flip side of this argument is to ask your wife how she would have felt to be born male but everything in her fabric told her she was female.  How would she feel to be told this was a perversion or a mental illness.  How would she feel to be beaten and scolded for showing the least bit of femininity?  How would she feel when friends and family openly mocked people who had the same issue?  Would she try to fit in?  Would she make sure not to give away this deep secret worried that it could make her a social outcast?  What would she do if she went for medical help and was basically mocked?

I think we easily forget how times have changed and how much still needs to change.

Take care,
Paige :)

Quote from: Paige on January 03, 2017, 10:55:20 PM
Hi Amanda,

I think the flip side of this argument is to ask your wife how she would have felt to be born male but everything in her fabric told her she was female.  How would she feel to be told this was a perversion or a mental illness.  How would she feel to be beaten and scolded for showing the least bit of femininity?  How would she feel when friends and family openly mocked people who had the same issue?  Would she try to fit in?  Would she make sure not to give away this deep secret worried that it could make her a social outcast?  What would she do if she went for medical help and was basically mocked?

I think we easily forget how times have changed and how much still needs to change.

Take care,
Paige :)

Dear Paige

Before replying, I hope that home4u, the original poster, will forgive us for widening the scope of her post but I think the debates we are having will help her understand her both her husband's situation and how she should respond and come to terms with the situation.

I think you raise a very valid point.  I was never beaten & scolded and have not sought medical help but I can relate to a greater or lesser degree to the remaining scenarios you describe.  However, I have to balance that with the amount of hurt and upset I caused my wife by not being honest with her sooner in our marriage, or better still, before we married.  Telling her a lot sooner would either have finished the relationship or she may have turned out to be tolerant of the situation.  Either way, it would have given me a mandate to be myself.  As it was, regardless of whether my motives were justified or not, I withheld information about this side of me for nearly two decades by which time we had kids, a life together based on trust and all of the trappings that two decent careers bring.  At that point, walking away from the marriage becomes a lot more difficult for both parties with the result that the wife not only feels trapped but also has to watch as the man she loves 'disappears' before her eyes (I know that there's the argument that it's only a superficial change and the person inside is still the same but there's enough feedback from hurt spouses on this site to demonstrate that that argument is often tenuous at best).

The problem here is that nature has dealt us, and I include home4u's husband in this, a 'bum' hand.  Every fibre in my body wishes I had been born female and that I wouldn't have had to have lived with the feelings I have for over 50 years.  As a compromise, I'd settle for being completely and happily male.  However, we are what we are and I am in awe of the other members of this community who have been brave enough to stand up and be true to themselves.  However, I do think that we have two faults - one is that we invariably leave it too long before confronting our issues and the other is that when we do, we often don't give nearly enough consideration to those around us and how they will feel not only about the fact that their partner is transgender but also that they have been (in their view) deceived.  I certainly didn't and now have to either accept the consequences or ignore them and risk blowing apart my family. 

Your final sentence is spot on - we've come a long way (particularly in Europe, I would add) but much still needs to change.  However, I do wonder when we will hit the proverbial wall here - even in our utopian world where we have absolute gender equality, complete tolerance of an individual's right to choose where they will live on the gender spectrum, non-sensational reporting of gender transition etc. etc., we will still have to deal with the fact that reproduction normally requires on male and one female parent and that, in turn, normally requires a relationship based on sexual attraction and that, I fear is where things will continue to break down for millennia to come - in other words the 'nimby' (not in my back yard) mentality - we need motorways but don't build them near my house; we support the rights of the transgender community as long as my wife/husband doesn't expect to be included!

Let's also remember, with apologies to the FTM community, that we're dealing with men here who will continue to keep secrets, say one thing while doing another, be economical with the truth and expect everyone to fall in with what they want to do - and I should know!

Amanda

Quote from: Eva Marie on January 03, 2017, 12:16:49 PM

What you saw from her was essentially a very good acting job - she acted like a man because it was expected of her and the costs of anyone finding out she wasn't a man were absolutely unimaginable (ie: possibly lose marriage, job, kids, friends).

Eva,

Again with apologies to home4u for widening the scope of her thread, I don't think this is the whole picture.

Firstly, can I congratulate you on what you have achieved.  What you have gone through in your life sounds horrible but to have the bravery to deal with it at 50 when so many of us just shrug our shoulders and think 'too much to lose' is inspirational.  You also look great on your avatar.

My situation is different.  I am not a woman trapped in a man's body and I have not been putting on an act for the last 50+ years.  I have male hobbies, am sexually attracted to women, have never felt uncomfortable being male and have never (to my knowledge) given any outside signs of my TG feelings.  However, I crave the female lifestyle; I look at a woman in the street and wish that I was her, I wish that wearing female clothing was a daily routine rather than an occasional furtive passtime, I wish I could look in the mirror and see a female face looking back, I wish I could sit down socially with other women and discuss soft issues such as relationships and I'd love to be able to turn my back on many of the less attractive indicators of maleness that I'm expected to conform to  This, I believe, often referred to as social dysphoria.

In many respects, this makes 'living the lie' a lot easier.  Yes, I'm having to surpress the cravings but at least I don't have the hatred of my body that comes with 'body dysphoria' to contend with.  However, it also helps put off the thorny issue of transition, at least until the whole things boils over as it has now obviously done with home4u's husband.

Amanda

p.s. home4u - you have been bombarded with a lot of opinions and I hope that you are able to sift through them and formulate a strategy that will work for you.  As Eva Marie said in her penultimate paragraph, above all else you need to 'communicate, communicate, communicate, be open and honest and don't stifle your feelings'.  However your husband feels, whatever he plans for the future, this is as much about you as it is about him.  He invited you into his life, married you and fathered your children and your voice has a right to be heard.  In many respects, you have a simple choice - stay and support him through his transition or terminate the relationship.  If you do decide to terminate the relationship, then he will need a friend more than ever and, if you can find it in your heart to be that friend, I am sure you will both benefit as a result.

Quote from: aaajjj55 on January 04, 2017, 01:43:23 AM
Dear Paige

Before replying, I hope that home4u, the original poster, will forgive us for widening the scope of her post but I think the debates we are having will help her understand her both her husband's situation and how she should respond and come to terms with the situation.

I think you raise a very valid point.  I was never beaten & scolded and have not sought medical help but I can relate to a greater or lesser degree to the remaining scenarios you describe.  However, I have to balance that with the amount of hurt and upset I caused my wife by not being honest with her sooner in our marriage, or better still, before we married.  Telling her a lot sooner would either have finished the relationship or she may have turned out to be tolerant of the situation.  Either way, it would have given me a mandate to be myself.  As it was, regardless of whether my motives were justified or not, I withheld information about this side of me for nearly two decades by which time we had kids, a life together based on trust and all of the trappings that two decent careers bring.  At that point, walking away from the marriage becomes a lot more difficult for both parties with the result that the wife not only feels trapped but also has to watch as the man she loves 'disappears' before her eyes (I know that there's the argument that it's only a superficial change and the person inside is still the same but there's enough feedback from hurt spouses on this site to demonstrate that that argument is often tenuous at best).

The problem here is that nature has dealt us, and I include home4u's husband in this, a 'bum' hand.  Every fibre in my body wishes I had been born female and that I wouldn't have had to have lived with the feelings I have for over 50 years.  As a compromise, I'd settle for being completely and happily male.  However, we are what we are and I am in awe of the other members of this community who have been brave enough to stand up and be true to themselves.  However, I do think that we have two faults - one is that we invariably leave it too long before confronting our issues and the other is that when we do, we often don't give nearly enough consideration to those around us and how they will feel not only about the fact that their partner is transgender but also that they have been (in their view) deceived.  I certainly didn't and now have to either accept the consequences or ignore them and risk blowing apart my family. 

Your final sentence is spot on - we've come a long way (particularly in Europe, I would add) but much still needs to change.  However, I do wonder when we will hit the proverbial wall here - even in our utopian world where we have absolute gender equality, complete tolerance of an individual's right to choose where they will live on the gender spectrum, non-sensational reporting of gender transition etc. etc., we will still have to deal with the fact that reproduction normally requires on male and one female parent and that, in turn, normally requires a relationship based on sexual attraction and that, I fear is where things will continue to break down for millennia to come - in other words the 'nimby' (not in my back yard) mentality - we need motorways but don't build them near my house; we support the rights of the transgender community as long as my wife/husband doesn't expect to be included!

Let's also remember, with apologies to the FTM community, that we're dealing with men here who will continue to keep secrets, say one thing while doing another, be economical with the truth and expect everyone to fall in with what they want to do - and I should know!

Amanda

Hi Amanda,

I get the feeling you're feeling very guilty about hiding being transgender from your wife but you seem to dismiss the pain and heart ache you yourself have been put through by society's transphobia.   Your pain is just as valid as your wife's.  Relationships fall apart all the time but for some reason hiding being transgender is treated like the ultimate betrayal.

Just to give you some background, I have lived with my wife for 30 years.  She knew almost from the start, but I thought I could get over it.  Was I dishonest?  Yes I fell off the wagon numerous times and didn't always tell her.  As I said I thought I could work through this.  As most of us found out that's next to impossible.  But here's the thing we've had a pretty good relationship for 30 years.    We've raised two great daughters.   She's been very happy for most of it. 

Do I deserve a medal for this?  No. But to think this was an ultimate betrayal ignores the fact that she's had a very good life for 30 years while being transgender was constantly tearing at my soul.  I know many people who've had crappy relationships that would love to have a relationship that was as good and lasted as long as ours. 

Did she get everything she every wanted. No of course not, very few people ever do.  But she got what she signed on for a loyal, caring husband for 30 years.  That doesn't sound like a betrayal to me.  It sounds like someone putting everyone else ahead of their own needs.

We may have to take different paths in the future because I may transition and she doesn't want that in a relationship, but that doesn't negate all we've accomplished and the good times we've had together. 

Hope your day is going well.
Paige :)

Paige - yes I do feel very guilty about hiding the truth from my wife but I think that this is as a consequence of the reaction I got when I came out to her.  If she had said 'great, let's go shopping together', there would have been no guilt (but of course there would have been regret about not coming out sooner).  From my point of view, your conscience should be clear as you did disclose to your wife early in your relationship and, reading between the lines, on several subsequent occasions.

As you quite rightly say, we all know that successfully surpressing these feelings is next to impossible and I think that it's important for SOs to understand this; it's obviously their prerogative to walk away from the marriage if they wish but if they do decide to stand by their spouse then support rather than persecution will give far more fulfilling results to both sides.  From my own experience, having an unsupportive spouse just drives the feelings back into the proverbial closet where the pressure builds up over time.  As we know, boilers need safety valves to deal with the pressure or they just blow up and my dilemma is whether I should re-confess or go back to stealth mode for as long as that provides emotional relief and this boils down to whether the fear of discovery and its consequences is or isn't outweighed by the desire to avoid heartache on both sides by keeping quiet.

Amanda

Quote from: janine2363 on December 29, 2016, 03:34:40 PM
I'm on the other side of the story. I'm 46 married for 19 years and I discovered rather explosively
this year I'm transgender and polysexual. Don't ask how it could have been hidden in my mind even
for myself, but it did.

1 – How hard is it really to stay with someone that is transgender? I don't think I'm a lesbian but I do find women to be beautiful I could maybe see us staying together but will our love stay? I'm concerned we will just be good friends if we stay together. I don't want that. I want love.

I do love my wife, and she does love me, but ... she has her own needs and fulfilment. She needs a man, who looks
at her, as a man looks at a woman, has that connection. I hope we can stay together, because of what we share, but
it will be hard, because their is enough that separates us. It will hurt a lot if she leaves, but I cannot put my needs above hers

2 – What If I no longer want sex with this person, am I destined to be with out sex rest of my life?

Me and my wife walk a common road, but I now also want a separate road, there is a need in me to be seen as a
woman, not the body, surgery etc. But as in a (sexual) relation as well, i.e. I want the same thing she wants. She
notices now that our sex is better, but different, more carring, but different passion. If we stay together she should
look for the passion she needs.

3 – Do people love and stay together but move to separate rooms?

If you don't want to be close, well, then you don't want to be close

4 – What if he starts liking guys... maybe he already does! He says he only wants to be with me for the rest of his life and he is my person. He says he loves women, only attracted to women, but I have used toys on him in our play in the bedroom for years (strapon and plugs). He says he is a woman and a lesbian and lesbian anything super arouses him. He sees himself as a woman when we make love now, just with a penis.

I noticed that when my gender identity shifted, my sexual attraction shifted as well. I have to admit that I
have for the first time ever experienced a real orgasm (in my head, body, everywhere, except ...) it was an
incredible experience. I am also (sexually) atracted to my wife, but, well, ... there can be change. It requires a
lot of openmindedness from your side. For me it is easier in that respect, I know what is in my head. For someone
outside it is harder to understand and accept I figure


5- He wants the surgery to remove his testes, says he despises these *things*... won't that destroy sex?

For my relation I try to find a balance, I do -not- want surgery. It is a small compromise I think if I know who
I am and my sife learns to accept who I am, and nowing she will have a harder time accepting if I transition
further. Why the need / hurry for me. Sure I would love to live in a female body, but realistically, that's a
dream, can never really reach that anyway.

6- Him being an older male, I don't get why he wants to do this now.. I'm confused. He won't be hot, he is older best I think he could hope for, with LOTS of surgeries and implants would be to pass, even then..everyone will know.

It is not wanting, it heappens. Still to my wife I told it was a kind of choice, but that's self acceptance. She was
feeling as if she dangeld on a wire; How would I change next. So I told that I am happy to be transgender, if someone
would offer a pill to reverse, I would not take it, I am who I am, I do feel better that way, but don't want to transition
further.

I have to admit, for my wife it is harder than for me, as I said I can at least (try to) understand my own head, it comes
from my inside. For my wife she now questions herself, of course I know she didn;t do anything wrong, but that's words, her world is shattered, she's afraid of being "the woman of ...", she's not selfish, she forgievs and cares a lot, but she is hurting. Why do I say this? For a transgender it is fairly easy to become self obsessed, easy to overlook the others, so always speak up for yourslf.

Thanks for sharing and welcome to the site.

I too am a middle age AMAB who after 25 years of marriage and 3 kids overcame my denial and realized I am trans. It has been a hard couple of years. I am still with my wife for now. My kids know and are cool.  If any want to discuss this sort of thing with me feel free to private message me or post in this and I will probably see it.

I also want to share some links with you. They are mostly welcome information and the rules that govern the site. If you have not had a chance to look through them, please take a moment to:

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Once again, welcome to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and join in.

With warmth,

Joanna

Hi, I'm new to this forum but have known about the site for years.  Like many of you I've been suppressing my GD for years, and grew up male with a wife and family.  I'm 52 now, and about three years ago my wife found out and I told her.  I never intended to tell anyone because of the consequences to my personal and private life, and while I'm accepting that I should have been honest with her from the start, I was focused more on getting my life together and providing, all the while this ran along in the background. 

From time to time it comes up, and now stronger than ever.  Wife not accepting, although she said she would at first and there was some hope that I could have open discussions with her about it.  But she didn't marry a woman (but she did), and I understand her point of view although she only gets the TMZ and her therapist's view of what I'm dealing with. 

So, long story short I've done nothing about it.  In reading these posts, I realized that I have a very similar situation and feelings toward this as Amanda (aaajjj55).  I'm not sure if people are allowed to correspond with each other through this forum, but if there is a way I'd like to get some help/advice. 

Quote from: Cyn5217 on January 10, 2017, 11:51:08 AM
Hi, I'm new to this forum but have known about the site for years.  Like many of you I've been suppressing my GD for years, and grew up male with a wife and family.  I'm 52 now, and about three years ago my wife found out and I told her.  I never intended to tell anyone because of the consequences to my personal and private life, and while I'm accepting that I should have been honest with her from the start, I was focused more on getting my life together and providing, all the while this ran along in the background. 

From time to time it comes up, and now stronger than ever.  Wife not accepting, although she said she would at first and there was some hope that I could have open discussions with her about it.  But she didn't marry a woman (but she did), and I understand her point of view although she only gets the TMZ and her therapist's view of what I'm dealing with. 

So, long story short I've done nothing about it.  In reading these posts, I realized that I have a very similar situation and feelings toward this as Amanda (aaajjj55).  I'm not sure if people are allowed to correspond with each other through this forum, but if there is a way I'd like to get some help/advice.

Welcome to the site.

If you go through the links I just left above your post, you will find the rules of the site. Please consider it your official welcome as well. One of the rules states that you must have 15 quality posts before you are able to take advantage of the site's private messaging system. However, if the member is okay with it, you can certainly email all you want.

Good luck.

With warmth,

Joanna

Quote from: home4u on December 23, 2016, 05:28:55 PM
here is what gets me, i knew this guy, am married to him for years, didnt see this really.

im looking back and i dont see it. except him being kinky in the bedroom with toys, and his bi experiences as a younger boy. maybe were signs...

now he comes out and says. hey i want to be a womn, i want to wear makeup and have a sex change and im a lesbian.

where did this come from? how did he hide it from me so well for years and years. he was a guy.. a guys guy when i married him. where did that person go.

im baffled. i feel like he had a stroke And now there is this other person im talking to.

The people before me gave way better responses then i could and i think its important for me to stay where i have experience so i don't lead someone down to the wrong idea. I wouldn't say i have experience with relationships or anything but iv'e spoken about this topic with others before and i felt the need to say something because i think its important to help people realize who you once new is the same person you're looking at today. I have a lot of friends who are not transgender and when i came out i had to explain to a lot of them what everything meant and it took a lot of patience but in the end they understood. I don't agree that the person you loved never told you before hand even though it must have been hard on them and scary to think they could lose everything. But i empathize with it because i also can understand why they didn't say anything to you sooner all the same. Image for a second putting yourself in that spot where everyone you love is in front of you but they see you as a person you're not but saying something is a risk of losing that love and acceptance. But you deeply want to say something and it eats you away because if you don't say something you're not telling the complete truth. But it feels like you're still not telling the truth living the other life because you're that gender you where assigned as at birth. In the end the way to be honest and happy is telling the people you love, nobody wants to lose the people the love but nobody wants to feel like they are not being honest either. What you're feeling right now that "Fear" is different from the fear your lover had but in a way it's also the same fear your lover had. You don't want to lose them they don't want to lose you.
You're scared there going to change there probably scared you're going to abandon them and not understand them.
But by telling you there giving you the chance to understand and to learn and they are trust you to listen and learn.
As couples we go in and out of daily struggles and this is just another bump people can learn about and work with.
Now, how can you start accepting them and helping them?
You already started by doing research and listening and that's wonderful.
But pronouns instead of saying "He" say "She" you wouldn't like being called "He" if you're not would you?
That would probably make you feel uncomfortable.

Okay, Sexuality is not gender
Gender is what is inside your brain not between your legs
And Sexuality is who you are attracted to.

It seems like a very complex thing ^ when you first listen to the above
But you'll start to grasp the understanding and when you do it'll make sense.

Second off, what "She" is doing in the bedroom
is what she is doing in the bedroom and it's no indication of anything
Being kinky, anyone man or woman can be kinky that's just normal things
what you like is what you like and that's okay.

Hiding things its very easy to do when you're scared the entire world may be agents you
I'm sure there have been people in you life hiding secrets before and you where shocked to find out
it wouldn't be the first time a person has hid a secret for years on end. But that doesn't mean because She had a secret that she wanted to keep the secret it's just scary to come out to people you love.
You know i have a best friend who is not transgender iv'e known her for Ten years these Ten years she believed i was a girl because my body looked like a girl but i was scared to say "I'm in the wrong body, i'm a boy" I was scared because i new her for Ten years i didn't want to lose her acceptance or her trust so i kept it silent.
She was always very good at figuring me out but she couldn't quite put her finger on it this time around although she always new it was something, was it because i was bisexual? maybe. But it wasn't and when i told her i was a boy trapped inside a body that wasn't mine she was fine with it and did what you did started listening and learning.
And that's the best thing you can do for someone, even when its hard to do at first.


As for do you love her that's up to you and your sexuality
But love can come in many ways it doesn't always have to be a relationship if things turn out that you're not a lesbian. But that doesn't mean you aren't either so maybe try exploring that for yourself?

Hi,

I am new to this so you will have to bare with me lol......I am married to a post surgery MTF and have been together with her for 21 years.  We have a 14 year old son together.  The first time she told me was three days after we renewed our wedding vows as man and wife.  I was suspicious as I thought as a man was having an affair or was gay.....I didnt know what transgender was but was keen to learn.  She started dressing away from home where no one knew us and it was a very nervous experience to say the least and was glad when I got home again.  This over a period of time got better.  She knew she was different from the age of 8 years old but didnt know why.  It was difficult telling friends and family we lost friends and gained new ones.  Family was ok about it all and still are.  She was studying as a Radiographer in her first year and it was challenging doing a degree and transitioning.  It was easy and she did try to commit suicide once due to being accused of not being safe around children from parents at our sons dance school.  It took some time to get over that and she regained her confidence once again.  She has now been qualified for nearly 2 years and is progressing well and has much support from her workplace.  She is also doing transgender awareness talks for the trust and other organisations.  I love her to bits for who she is, she is my best friend and we love doing lunch together and shopping....before as a man hated it all now she is happier than ever.  I always say when people ask the exterior has changed however, it is the heart that I married and will never go back on that.     

Quote from: Denise1972 on January 14, 2017, 06:29:37 AM
Hi,

I am new to this so you will have to bare with me lol......I am married to a post surgery MTF and have been together with her for 21 years.  We have a 14 year old son together.  The first time she told me was three days after we renewed our wedding vows as man and wife.  I was suspicious as I thought as a man was having an affair or was gay.....I didnt know what transgender was but was keen to learn.  She started dressing away from home where no one knew us and it was a very nervous experience to say the least and was glad when I got home again.  This over a period of time got better.  She knew she was different from the age of 8 years old but didnt know why.  It was difficult telling friends and family we lost friends and gained new ones.  Family was ok about it all and still are.  She was studying as a Radiographer in her first year and it was challenging doing a degree and transitioning.  It was easy and she did try to commit suicide once due to being accused of not being safe around children from parents at our sons dance school.  It took some time to get over that and she regained her confidence once again.  She has now been qualified for nearly 2 years and is progressing well and has much support from her workplace.  She is also doing transgender awareness talks for the trust and other organisations.  I love her to bits for who she is, she is my best friend and we love doing lunch together and shopping....before as a man hated it all now she is happier than ever.  I always say when people ask the exterior has changed however, it is the heart that I married and will never go back on that.   

Hi Denise

Welcome and I hope you enjoy your time here at Susan's.

You sound like a very loving person. My wife and I have been together for about 30 years now and she is the same as you...she isn't going anywhere either.


Regards

Liz


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