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Hypothetically speaking, what would you most likely do as a MTF transitioning for quite a while and you now find yourself in a strong and wonderful relationship with another woman, it is getting very serious, and she appears to be very supportive of you, BUT she says she would prefer yourself remaining a biological male, legally and otherwise, to have a "normal appearing couple relationship" if you two get married because it would make things go smoother with her family?  Yes, you can express your femininity but it would no longer be good for you to be working as a female, as you would be a man to the world?

This seems like a terrible situation to complete your MTF transition as you have been moving towards this real life gender transition.  But the woman you fell in love with you want to do almost anything for her.  She is honest, loving, you have great sex, and a lot of fun together as yourself, as a woman.  She is honest, smart, beautiful, and you feel very fortunate to have her return love to you. 

So what you say on this hypothetical situation, this quandary?


Chrissy

Show her the door.

If she cannot accept ME as ME, then it won't work. I am done playing that role for others.
I would ask her to consider reversing her role. Maybe she should consider transitioning to male. I would be willing to accept her in whatever role. But don't force me to change if you won't consider changing yourself too.

@LoriDee  @ChrissyRyan
Changing for someone else, especially a romantic entanglement,
is a doomed proposition.

I am not changing my gender, so either take me
as I am or look elsewhere.

What LoriDee stated is EXACTLY how I would
have responded...word for word.

Hugs, Danielle

Quote from: LoriDee on July 07, 2024, 03:07:20 PMShow her the door.

If she cannot accept ME as ME, then it won't work. I am done playing that role for others.
I would ask her to consider reversing her role. Maybe she should consider transitioning to male. I would be willing to accept her in whatever role. But don't force me to change if you won't consider changing yourself too.

Hi Chrissy

One cannot change their Gender Period.  On the surface it seems the partner is supportive, when in fact she is definitely not supportive.  She wants her partner to be a biological male, does not allow a legal name change? Wants a 'normal couple relationship, wants a marriage that looks like a normal male and female marriage and not a gay marriage to her parents and wants her partner to work as a male.  This partner seems to be a normal heterosexual female and wants a normal heterosexual male, regardless of the males feminine traits.  So again she is not supportive.

The hypothetically MTF you have mentioned has been transitioning for quiet awhile and wants to go further.  Which brings me to this point in regards to this relationship.  The MTF is dammed if they continue the relationship and are dammed if they don't.

I have mentioned in my posts that I sacrificed everything (in retrospect).  Yes, I know I was not in a relationship at the time.  However, I do know that with hindsight that there were two men in my life at the time.  One of them, I finally realised that I was in love with him at the time I changed my life around and I could not do anything about it and it hurt me deeply.  Yes, again I sacrificed and gambled everything and I won everything and achieved so much more.

Which brings me to the point on what this MTF should do?  Lori and Danielle have already stated what one should do in this hypothetical case.

Lori's post:

Quote from: LoriDee on July 07, 2024, 03:07:20 PMShow her the door.

If she cannot accept ME as ME, then it won't work. I am done playing that role for others.
I would ask her to consider reversing her role. Maybe she should consider transitioning to male. I would be willing to accept her in whatever role. But don't force me to change if you won't consider changing yourself too.

and Danielle's Post

Quote from: Northern Star Girl on July 07, 2024, 06:26:48 PMChanging for someone else, especially a romantic entanglement,
is a doomed proposition.

I am not changing my gender, so either take me
as I am or look elsewhere.

What LoriDee stated is EXACTLY how I would
have responded...word for word.

So, I'm in the same boat as Lori and Danielle, in other words I agree with them completely in what they have said.  Move on, yes the MTF's heart will be broken, but the consequences of not doing so, can or could be costly in the long run.

Love and Hugs
Sarah B
Official Greeter
@ChrissyRyan
@Northern Star Girl
@LoriDee

I tried this approach to a relationship when I foolishly believed I had a choice of which way to go, and it did work for 20 years, but eventually the stress of dysphoria caught up with me, and I had to complete transition to survive. I put so much effort into saving my relationship, but she left me anyway. So, overall, the result was the same for our relationship, but conceding to her wishes took me to a heart attack and 2 cardiac arrests. Transitioning 20 years earlier would have produced much better results, and maybe given me time to find a new relationship as me.

A relationship based on denying a person's gender will likely sour and fail, so is the time spent in stress worth it? I believe it is better to embrace your true self and make the most of your life.

Hugs,

Allie

Control issues are a huge red flag. 

Even as no-op/no hrt I felt it best not to get into a relationship while I'm still sorting stuff out.

Marion

Hi Everyone

Marion said:

Quote from: Maid Marion on July 07, 2024, 09:41:43 PMControl issues are a huge red flag. 

Even as no-op/no hrt I felt it best not to get into a relationship while I'm still sorting stuff out.

Marion

This a thousand times this, the whole post.  For me there was no intimate relationship until after surgery.  Thank you so much Marion.

Love and Hugs
Sarah B
Official Greeter
@Maid Marion

Its Hypothetical but not very realistic.. the gatekeeping starts long before any steps to transition are taken if there is no support.. and if you already were on that path, finding someone who did not want to join you would not lead to a relationship..
Instead, what happens is what most people here have reminisced about.. you hold back the real you for years and years.. for many reasons, maybe society, maybe you just did not understand yourself.. and then, when you know what must be done, then that is where the gatekeeping is implemented.
It is the hardest advice to give someone in the world.. but if the person you are in a relationship does not understand that gender dysphoria is a serious condition, curable only by transition and, instead, thinks it is just a phase or something you can 'get over'.. then you need to break that relationship as it will only end in more tears, heartbreak and ill health.
 Obviously, I am only addressing people who are dealing with gender dysphoria here. Gender dysphoria can be lessened by supportive environments and knowledge about treatment to reduce the difference between your inner gender identity and sex assigned at birth. It is exasperated by lack of support and denial of treatment..

This situation kinda happened to me. ok not exactly the same situation, but similar

Before I had bottom surgery, I was dating a guy. He was my first boyfriend, before that I assumed I was lesbian.

I was full time presenting as female, i had being on hormones for about 2 years, so I was quite a way down the road of transition, so I was passing well. Since I am a girly girl, this helped my passing

He was a deeply closeted gay man, so I was the perfect girlfriend for him, to his family and public I was girl so nothing to see here, but the fact I had a penis appealed to the gay side of him. Things started to get complicated when things started to get physical as i did want him to touch me down there as I did not want to get reminded I was born male. The final nail in the relationship, was when I secured my appointment for bottom surgery. I was so excited and he was angry, he accused me of selling out and bowing to societies definition of a woman and I was perfect the way I was.

He knew my plan all along was to get bottom surgery,when I started hormones that was always the plan, I knew I needed a vagina between my legs to feel 100% female.

Well we broke up. That relationship was about 9 months long (we took it slowly, due him being a closeted gay man, and me getting use to the idea of having a boyfriend). Yes that relationship was doomed from the start.

Back to the question, in this Hypothetical but not very realistic, situation.. the relationship will be doomed. Its only so long you can pretend everything is fine. you need to be you in the relationship.

When I met my husband, I was honest from the beginning, that I was born male as I was post op at this time. I did not want to build a relationship on a lie.

   I'll just echo what the others have said. The relationship is doomed, DOOMED from the start. After the euphoria of great sex and a new love wear off, GD will rear its ugly head and all the anxieties and problems will come back.
   When I came out to my wife I told her if she wanted to split, I understand. I loved her but I HAD to do this for me! Long story short she has learned to except me as I am. :)  

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on July 07, 2024, 01:22:53 PMHypothetically speaking, what would you most likely do as a MTF transitioning for quite a while and you now find yourself in a strong and wonderful relationship with another woman, it is getting very serious, and she appears to be very supportive of you, BUT she says she would prefer yourself remaining a biological male, legally and otherwise, to have a "normal appearing couple relationship" if you two get married because it would make things go smoother with her family?  Yes, you can express your femininity but it would no longer be good for you to be working as a female, as you would be a man to the world?

This seems like a terrible situation to complete your MTF transition as you have been moving towards this real life gender transition.  But the woman you fell in love with you want to do almost anything for her.  She is honest, loving, you have great sex, and a lot of fun together as yourself, as a woman.  She is honest, smart, beautiful, and you feel very fortunate to have her return love to you. 

So what you say on this hypothetical situation, this quandary?


Chrissy

This is a no brainer for me, Chrissy.

If someone I'm with doesn't understand why I am who am, and cannot get me for who I am.. I don't care if she were the best sex since pre-Trump Stormy Daniels... that isn't the point of a relationship.

For me it is a meeting of souls, pure and simple. It's someone you find solace in. Someone who finds solace in you. Lust is a very long way down the list to love. And I will also say, people here understand that more than most. Take it from personal experience.

If you base the premise of your relationship on a lie, or a concession... it will never, EVER end well. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Beauty is in the eye of the person who will never ask you to be someone else because it suits their world more. And vice versa. It's a rare thing, admittedly, but when you have, or find it... you hold on to it. Because these are the people, and you are the person, which matters.

That's my belief.

It is pretty hypothetical for me, as I was already married when I transitioned, and my wife is okay with who I am.  But I agree with the consensus above: the relationship as described would not work.  The earlier the person breaks it off, the better.

I do know someone in almost this position.  After a lifetime of crossdressing and being gender-fluid, she has finally realized that she is trans-feminine .  But her wife is not on board with it, so she has to present masculine at home.  Given that she has started HRT and is loving it, I foresee "interesting" times in her home life.  So far, she is making it work, and is able to present as feminine everywhere except at home, including at work.  I wish her the best, but her path is not for me.  And in the long run, perhaps not for her either.

Yeah that's a no go. I would not do this. Even if I wanted to it wouldn't work. I tried this route for most of my life and it led to misery. Thus I transitioned. Not going back to try it again, thanks.

Quote from: LoriDee on July 07, 2024, 03:07:20 PMShow her the door.

If she cannot accept ME as ME, then it won't work. I am done playing that role for others.
I would ask her to consider reversing her role. Maybe she should consider transitioning to male. I would be willing to accept her in whatever role. But don't force me to change if you won't consider changing yourself too.

Thank you for your thoughts on this Lori.

Chrissy

Quote from: Northern Star Girl on July 07, 2024, 06:26:48 PM@LoriDee  @ChrissyRyan
Changing for someone else, especially a romantic entanglement,
is a doomed proposition.

I am not changing my gender, so either take me
as I am or look elsewhere.

What LoriDee stated is EXACTLY how I would
have responded...word for word.

Hugs, Danielle

Danielle,

Thank you for your thoughts on this.

Chrissy

Quote from: Sarah B on July 07, 2024, 08:13:04 PMHi Chrissy

One cannot change their Gender Period.  On the surface it seems the partner is supportive, when in fact she is definitely not supportive.  She wants her partner to be a biological male, does not allow a legal name change? Wants a 'normal couple relationship, wants a marriage that looks like a normal male and female marriage and not a gay marriage to her parents and wants her partner to work as a male.  This partner seems to be a normal heterosexual female and wants a normal heterosexual male, regardless of the males feminine traits.  So again she is not supportive.

The hypothetically MTF you have mentioned has been transitioning for quiet awhile and wants to go further.  Which brings me to this point in regards to this relationship.  The MTF is dammed if they continue the relationship and are dammed if they don't.

I have mentioned in my posts that I sacrificed everything (in retrospect).  Yes, I know I was not in a relationship at the time.  However, I do know that with hindsight that there were two men in my life at the time.  One of them, I finally realised that I was in love with him at the time I changed my life around and I could not do anything about it and it hurt me deeply.  Yes, again I sacrificed and gambled everything and I won everything and achieved so much more.

Which brings me to the point on what this MTF should do?  Lori and Danielle have already stated what one should do in this hypothetical case.

Lori's post:

and Danielle's Post

So, I'm in the same boat as Lori and Danielle, in other words I agree with them completely in what they have said.  Move on, yes the MTF's heart will be broken, but the consequences of not doing so, can or could be costly in the long run.

Love and Hugs
Sarah B
Official Greeter
@ChrissyRyan
@Northern Star Girl
@LoriDee

Sarah,

Thank you for your thoughts on this.

Chrissy

Quote from: Allie Jayne on July 07, 2024, 08:52:28 PMI tried this approach to a relationship when I foolishly believed I had a choice of which way to go, and it did work for 20 years, but eventually the stress of dysphoria caught up with me, and I had to complete transition to survive. I put so much effort into saving my relationship, but she left me anyway. So, overall, the result was the same for our relationship, but conceding to her wishes took me to a heart attack and 2 cardiac arrests. Transitioning 20 years earlier would have produced much better results, and maybe given me time to find a new relationship as me.

A relationship based on denying a person's gender will likely sour and fail, so is the time spent in stress worth it? I believe it is better to embrace your true self and make the most of your life.

Hugs,

Allie

Allie,

Oh my, you suffered a lot. 

Also, thank you for your thoughts on this.

Chrissy

Quote from: Maid Marion on July 07, 2024, 09:41:43 PMControl issues are a huge red flag. 

Even as no-op/no hrt I felt it best not to get into a relationship while I'm still sorting stuff out.

Marion

Marion,


I thank you for your thoughts on this.

Chrissy

Quote from: Sarah B on July 07, 2024, 10:24:42 PMHi Everyone

Marion said:

This a thousand times this, the whole post.  For me there was no intimate relationship until after surgery.  Thank you so much Marion.

Love and Hugs
Sarah B
Official Greeter
@Maid Marion

That is an interesting perspective.  In this hypothetical situation, it is well past the no relationship stage though.

Chrissy

Quote from: SoupSarah on July 07, 2024, 10:35:00 PMIts Hypothetical but not very realistic.. the gatekeeping starts long before any steps to transition are taken if there is no support.. and if you already were on that path, finding someone who did not want to join you would not lead to a relationship..
Instead, what happens is what most people here have reminisced about.. you hold back the real you for years and years.. for many reasons, maybe society, maybe you just did not understand yourself.. and then, when you know what must be done, then that is where the gatekeeping is implemented.
It is the hardest advice to give someone in the world.. but if the person you are in a relationship does not understand that gender dysphoria is a serious condition, curable only by transition and, instead, thinks it is just a phase or something you can 'get over'.. then you need to break that relationship as it will only end in more tears, heartbreak and ill health.
 Obviously, I am only addressing people who are dealing with gender dysphoria here. Gender dysphoria can be lessened by supportive environments and knowledge about treatment to reduce the difference between your inner gender identity and sex assigned at birth. It is exasperated by lack of support and denial of treatment..

SoupSarah,

Thank you for your thoughts on this matter.

Chrissy

Quote from: noleen111 on July 08, 2024, 07:52:46 AMThis situation kinda happened to me. ok not exactly the same situation, but similar

Before I had bottom surgery, I was dating a guy. He was my first boyfriend, before that I assumed I was lesbian.

I was full time presenting as female, i had being on hormones for about 2 years, so I was quite a way down the road of transition, so I was passing well. Since I am a girly girl, this helped my passing

He was a deeply closeted gay man, so I was the perfect girlfriend for him, to his family and public I was girl so nothing to see here, but the fact I had a penis appealed to the gay side of him. Things started to get complicated when things started to get physical as i did want him to touch me down there as I did not want to get reminded I was born male. The final nail in the relationship, was when I secured my appointment for bottom surgery. I was so excited and he was angry, he accused me of selling out and bowing to societies definition of a woman and I was perfect the way I was.

He knew my plan all along was to get bottom surgery,when I started hormones that was always the plan, I knew I needed a vagina between my legs to feel 100% female.

Well we broke up. That relationship was about 9 months long (we took it slowly, due him being a closeted gay man, and me getting use to the idea of having a boyfriend). Yes that relationship was doomed from the start.

Back to the question, in this Hypothetical but not very realistic, situation.. the relationship will be doomed. Its only so long you can pretend everything is fine. you need to be you in the relationship.

When I met my husband, I was honest from the beginning, that I was born male as I was post op at this time. I did not want to build a relationship on a lie.

Noleen,

Thank you for your thoughts on this situation.

Chrissy

Quote from: Gina P on July 08, 2024, 08:34:46 AMI'll just echo what the others have said. The relationship is doomed, DOOMED from the start. After the euphoria of great sex and a new love wear off, GD will rear its ugly head and all the anxieties and problems will come back.
   When I came out to my wife I told her if she wanted to split, I understand. I loved her but I HAD to do this for me! Long story short she has learned to except me as I am. :) 

Gina,

Thank you for your thoughts on this.  It is also nice your wife has accepted you for who you are.  As you are aware in this hypothetical situation the woman, if she is to be married, would want to accept the other woman (MTF) but with limits, if they could appear as a "standard heterosexual couple to the world."  But that may be very difficult to do for the woman who is transitioning, even if she may present as female in many situations.

Something "may break" in the future of this relationship....

Chrissy

Quote from: Sephirah on July 10, 2024, 09:08:50 PMThis is a no brainer for me, Chrissy.

If someone I'm with doesn't understand why I am who am, and cannot get me for who I am.. I don't care if she were the best sex since pre-Trump Stormy Daniels... that isn't the point of a relationship.

For me it is a meeting of souls, pure and simple. It's someone you find solace in. Someone who finds solace in you. Lust is a very long way down the list to love. And I will also say, people here understand that more than most. Take it from personal experience.

If you base the premise of your relationship on a lie, or a concession... it will never, EVER end well. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Beauty is in the eye of the person who will never ask you to be someone else because it suits their world more. And vice versa. It's a rare thing, admittedly, but when you have, or find it... you hold on to it. Because these are the people, and you are the person, which matters.

That's my belief.

Sephora,

Quote from: Sephirah on July 10, 2024, 09:08:50 PMThis is a no brainer for me, Chrissy.

If someone I'm with doesn't understand why I am who am, and cannot get me for who I am.. I don't care if she were the best sex since pre-Trump Stormy Daniels... that isn't the point of a relationship.

For me it is a meeting of souls, pure and simple. It's someone you find solace in. Someone who finds solace in you. Lust is a very long way down the list to love. And I will also say, people here understand that more than most. Take it from personal experience.

If you base the premise of your relationship on a lie, or a concession... it will never, EVER end well. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Beauty is in the eye of the person who will never ask you to be someone else because it suits their world more. And vice versa. It's a rare thing, admittedly, but when you have, or find it... you hold on to it. Because these are the people, and you are the person, which matters.

That's my belief.

Sephirah,

Thank you for your thoughts on this.

Chrissy

Quote from: KathyLauren on July 11, 2024, 12:33:08 PMIt is pretty hypothetical for me, as I was already married when I transitioned, and my wife is okay with who I am.  But I agree with the consensus above: the relationship as described would not work.  The earlier the person breaks it off, the better.

I do know someone in almost this position.  After a lifetime of crossdressing and being gender-fluid, she has finally realized that she is trans-feminine .  But her wife is not on board with it, so she has to present masculine at home.  Given that she has started HRT and is loving it, I foresee "interesting" times in her home life.  So far, she is making it work, and is able to present as feminine everywhere except at home, including at work.  I wish her the best, but her path is not for me.  And in the long run, perhaps not for her either.

Kathy Lauren,

Thank you for your thought on this.

Chrissy

Quote from: Nadine Spirit on July 11, 2024, 09:27:55 PMYeah that's a no go. I would not do this. Even if I wanted to it wouldn't work. I tried this route for most of my life and it led to misery. Thus I transitioned. Not going back to try it again, thanks.

Kelly,

Thank you for your thought of this situation.

Chrissy

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on July 07, 2024, 01:22:53 PMHypothetically speaking, what would you most likely do as a MTF transitioning for quite a while and you now find yourself in a strong and wonderful relationship with another woman, it is getting very serious, and she appears to be very supportive of you, BUT she says she would prefer yourself remaining a biological male, legally and otherwise, to have a "normal appearing couple relationship" if you two get married because it would make things go smoother with her family?  Yes, you can express your femininity but it would no longer be good for you to be working as a female, as you would be a man to the world?

This seems like a terrible situation to complete your MTF transition as you have been moving towards this real life gender transition.  But the woman you fell in love with you want to do almost anything for her.  She is honest, loving, you have great sex, and a lot of fun together as yourself, as a woman.  She is honest, smart, beautiful, and you feel very fortunate to have her return love to you. 

So what you say on this hypothetical situation, this quandary?


Chrissy

This would be a really tough quandary to be in.  The CIS woman is supportive to an extent, they have taken out of town trips as two women, they go out as two women, they seem to have a lot fun.  Then the twist of her wanting to appear to be in a "traditional male/female relationship" to the world is causing some issues for her friendship.

She may be asking for too much of her friend.  Her friend has come a substantial way in her MTF transition.  But she has been sitting on the fence in terms of completing it.

Thank you all for your thoughts on this, and additional thoughts are welcomed.

Chrissy

In this hypothetical situation, nothing needs to change unless they get engaged.
They continue to talk about this.

Chrissy

This situation is both sweet and hurtful.
Perhaps it is best to not get too serious.
I just do not know.

Chrissy

This hypothetical couple are continuing to talk about what "must be done" if they get super serious / permanent relationship wise.  In the meantime, they are doing well and are having good times together.