A lot is mentioned about the 'second puberty' we ALL have to go through once on HRT.
Little if nothing is mentioned what goes on when we finally grow out of it, or?
Will the hemlines go down, the net-stockings get dumped, the make-up getting lighter, the beard finally stop growing, the rational self once more emerging, the boobs less in need of upholstering, nails in less need of varnishing, and in general a feeling emerging – being less of a girly and closer to a woman?
Second type woman, OK - but still more woman then girly?
Some, if not all of this seems to be happening and it happens faster, for sure, then teenage puberty. YMMV (just in case, Ann :-)
Are we now back doing the same old things we did before, just in 2.5" heels?
2.5" mind you not 4 - 5".
Am curious how some of you see, or rather experience that, and feel about that.
OK, and how nice, females have some more leeway in being a bit daft at times, one may still blame that on hormones, giggle :-)
5 month into HRT I felt more like 15! At 10 month about 35, and now 15 month --- pushing 50!?
Good Lord, it may just stop now! Really don't feel like anymore growing up right now.
50! It seems getting too much for comfort already.
No more tears, no more therapy, going "flat" as a 50 year old pancake, with purple hair, eina!
Axelle
Hi Axelle, I have not started HRT so I can't say much in that area but I can give you a bunch of Hawaiian Hugs.
Hang in there I am told it gets better :)
Aloha.
Jennie
well i am just having a ridiculously long puberty But HUGZIZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just wait for your SRS and see how you feel then sweetie
After SRS be walking around in pantoffels, curlers, no make-up, jeans and an XL t-shirt, eh? No bra and dangling boobs.
The ultimate comfort scenario... oh, oh.
Just saying, um.
Axelle :-)
I'm by no means close to really getting through it, but I've thought about that things will eventually be like that, and tried to think against doing transition because of it...but then I realize that one of the more major points of my transition is that I can actually be happy about myself while I do all my day-to-day things, rather than trying to ignore that the physical part of myself exists while playing games and stuff. =>.o; That's just the way I look at that.
When you become a true old lady, you become the object of what they sing...
Deutsche Frauen, deutsche Treue,
Deutscher Wein und deutscher Sang
Sollen in der Welt behalten
Ihren alten schönen Klang,
...
(no I don't speak German but I always thought this stanza in the Deutschlandlied funny)
Quote from: Axélle on August 07, 2011, 12:44:46 AM
Will the hemlines go down, the net-stockings get dumped, the make-up getting lighter, the beard finally stop growing, the rational self once more emerging, the boobs less in need of upholstering, nails in less need of varnishing, and in general a feeling emerging – being less of a girly and closer to a woman?
Second type woman, OK - but still more woman then girly?
I never really went through those things. I did a bit to try and pass, and I found I passed better without all that stuff. I hardly ever do makeup, lipstick, or nail polish. Forget fishnets or high heels; they are special-purpose accessories for at home. And god! heels kill my feet. I would be a frump if I wasn't naturally sexy. ;)
Quote from: apple pie on August 07, 2011, 04:30:43 PM
Deutsche Frauen, deutsche Treue,
Deutscher Wein und deutscher Sang
Sollen in der Welt behalten
Ihren alten schönen Klang,
Ah! Sehr, sehr Treu!
I feel like I am going through a second puberty, but mostly I feel this way as I'm aware of the emotional stuff caused by the hormones. It feels similar to my first puberty.
That said, I don't feel a need for short skirts and high heels. I've always liked longer skirts anyway, and miniskirts just don't look right on me. The one pair of pumps I own have 1.5" heels. I look for skirts and dresses that are no higher than knee length; mid-calf is best.
But, I'm only 2 months into HRT. Who knows what other changes will happen as time goes on.
Gosh Apple,
now you do make me nostalgic. Didn't even know this is part of the Deutschland Lied!
It does take one back to Biedermeier days and, Uhland, Goethe, Fichte, Lessing, Schiller, Hölderlin and on and on.
So... ,,dank ich auch schön für die Blumen meine Verehrteste" :-)
Axelle
Axelle!
Well the first stanza is the (in)famous Deutschland, Deutschland über alles, the last stanza is the German national anthem, and the middle stanza is this funny chauvinistic stanza about German women and German wine :laugh: You can hear it below—it totally does not match the solemnity of the music! (You can just press play and then pause it immediately afterwards to wait for it to load before pressing play again to play it)
Deutsche Nationalhymne (German National Anthem) Deutschlandlied (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAK23saAI1I#)
Holy Mose, Apple...
I didn't know it could still move me almost to tears. That was amazing!
Of course there is more to the first verse as you might know, scrapped after WWII.
"Von der Maas bis an die Memel, von der Etsch bis an den Belt -" those encompassed protectorate areas, past tense for sure.
Will I EVER be able to live up to THIS lot, as far as "Deutsche Frauen" is concerned...
Honey, seems you got me wrecked for now. Looks like bedtime for me.
Oh, oh, oh,
Axelle
Axelle, just starting hormones as been on them about 6.5 years.
Quote from: Shades O'Grey on August 08, 2011, 05:53:33 PM
I feel like I am going through a second puberty, but mostly I feel this way as I'm aware of the emotional stuff caused by the hormones. It feels similar to my first puberty.
That said, I don't feel a need for short skirts and high heels. I've always liked longer skirts anyway, and miniskirts just don't look right on me. The one pair of pumps I own have 1.5" heels. I look for skirts and dresses that are no higher than knee length; mid-calf is best.
But, I'm only 2 months into HRT. Who knows what other changes will happen as time goes on.
I still feel very emotional and I so love colors. Wow I wonder if anyone else feels this! Guys clothes just don't express my feelings. I'm blending clothes from two genders. I do have trans community will sometimes complement male clothing. I say but it is male clothing. They reply but it is very pretty!
I am so interested in trying different things and for me it is like a teenager.
Older women are not as much "out there" so that once newness wears off you do need to get back to life. I am getting mixed results on trying new things. Sometimes it is really not me and sometimes I really like it. Who would have guessed unless I tried.
So much has been suppressed that even at an old age there are many new things that are just plain fun.
Wendy,
I am amazed that puberty, second or otherwise, can take that long.
Thank you for sharing!
Food for more thought, and getting out my boogy heels, rocking my booty :-)
But seriously, you make a point - no need getting too slap dash but rather maintaining some style. I like that. A reason to post this was some fear of letting thing slip, as can be seen by so many older women in my part of the word. A sort of becoming "invisible".
Maybe France's older girls can serve as an example. To slip into invisibility is not the done thing - money allowing. Trouble with this is, that those kinds of cloth are lots more expensive and not as easily found as the never ending fashion supply for teens at affordable prices (made in China).
I have not reached the stage of feeling like A LADY, never mind old lady, still some puberty left I guess, and quite sure after 15 month HRT.
Hey, someone stepping on my toes finds out real fast - I CAN BE A BAD GIRL - have the black silky lace-up blouse with bat-wing sleeves, gold print with 'bad girl' and décolleté (low cut) almost down to the navel to make the point. (No good for big boobs though - just as well being 38A :-).
Axelle
For me it seems the further along I transition the more I experiment with my make up and dress. I love skirts, the shorter the better I know it's tragic. I do my eyes a thousand different ways and have just as many ways to fix my hair or accessories to go into it. I have heels that go from 1.5" to 4", never go higher then that tho since I'm already 5'11 and don't want to pass 6'4 since the guy I see from time to time is 6'5.
Sitting at 12 months in almost 13 I feel very comfortable with MOST of who I now am, I do still desperately want the final surgeries tho of course!
I would place myself around 20 or 21 with how I act, which is only 8 or 9 years younger then I actually am anyways and since I look in that age range it works for me! I was definitely closer to a 10 or 11 year old for my first few months tho.
I am feeling like I am 15 or so too. I am experiencing some of the same good feelings I had then. Just without all the bad ones I had then.
That would put me in about 1967-68, when mods and jazzers were still cool here, as well as the hippies. I now realise why I loved Emma Peel of 'The Avengers' TV series. Elegant, strong, smart and so cool.
The more the physical changes progress, the more I feel like I am fitting that mould.
I like skirts for the feeling of freedom, and once my bust is a decent size will no doubt start wearing more low cut tops. I have found I love long boots, and silver jewellery. I will also be seeing if I can find a dressmaker so that I can get what I want in my size, as even the shops that claim they deal in larger sizes often stop at an 18.
Also a lot more enthusiastic about playing music again, after a bit of a falling off in interest.
Karen.
Too funny. I found a number of "big women" catalog stores. I wear 18 tops and 12 bottoms. I have big breasts on a rather male frame with a female waist line. For their patience I buy a lot of stuff and I return a lot of stuff. My clothes have gone from male to expressive male to masculine female to female. I now have a mixture and very little expressive female. Most of stuff I buy I wear. It would be so fun to shop with someone!
I better enjoy ride because I have been going uphill for several years and going downhill is easy but goes too fast!
First puberty lasted 10 years so that second puberty should last 10 years!
Great thread Axelle,
For me, I never want to grow up. Even before I started hrt a short while ago, I always acted like a kid. I still skateboard and snowboard and race dirt bikes and surf...all that kid stuff. Now that I am transitioning it is even more fun for me to do all the young girl stuff! I will wear my
5 inch heels and flirty clothes as long as I possibly can! Who knows if and when that attitude will change for me?
Jennifer
Jennifer,
awareness is what I had in mind, and not starting to dry up and get staid.
Very happy to hear you doing those things you do. Wish I could find some to play hopscotch with, and all those other things we missed then. :-)
Doing it beats nostalgia...
Thanks and enjoy,
Axelle
Quote from: Axélle on August 13, 2011, 01:05:01 PM
Jennifer,
awareness is what I had in mind,
Sorry, I wasn't aware of that because I am still just 15 at this point. :)
I hated my first puberty and I am loving every minute of my second one!
Jennifer
Hopscotch! This is something missing in the neighborhoods here. I haven't found a hopscotch outline on any sidewalk or driveway for decades! I see the role-playing game outlines painted in the elementary school playground areas. When I was a kid those outlines were made by the girls that played it with a piece of chalk or charcoal. What made them disappear? Feminizm? Political correctness? Child safety?
Puberty: I am 58 and coming up on nine months HRT now and I discovered that I am jumping to conclusions too quickly lately. I am also more confrontational than before, I was quite shy. I do not have the heavy mood swings described here on Susan's as of yet, I had them before the HRT. I am taking it easy here and let things come as they are. The boobs have become more conical and the pain, tingling and itching have returned this past week.
Joelene
Hi Jolene,
I loved hopscotch. I still love to jump around. I am an interesting "whatever". I did get nice skin and "C's". Hormones do less when you pass 50. I feel it changes mind more than body. I do love colors!
Wendy,
lucky girl with "Cs", eh :-)
Did you know that in France there was a judgement (yeah, they're actually still allowed to judge over there :-) that breast be the primary indication of whether you female --- or not.
I like that, so you actually are 'allowed', if you just know so, to be transsexual, never mind the status in your knickers. As much at it seems contrary to what some in this forum at times seem to suggest.
Axelle
Many genetic girls have small breasts. I think B is size for most of world. I think if genetic girls overeat then C is average.
Many of MTF's got breast augmentations that I know. However BA's are not breast tissue but silicone/saline.
Sometimes my breasts still hurt. Endo told me that is normal for girls.
A very nice change is that my breasts are very sensitive. A sad thing is my close friends like guys and they let me know.
................
So in France MTF can get BA and qualify? FTM simply remove breasts in France?
My thin 6 foot tall friend has been taking hormones for many years. She is flat and might be up to an A. People call her Mame without her doing anything. She would not qualify in France because she has such little breast tissue?
....................
I do enjoy pretty outfits. They still are rather plain.
...........................
I no longer have T production mechanism. I am not sure if that would qualify to change gender marker. It seems like it should in my opinion. I think SRS is only change needed to get gender marker changed in United States.
Quote from: Axélle on August 15, 2011, 01:12:04 AM
Wendy,
lucky girl with "Cs", eh :-)
Did you know that in France there was a judgement (yeah, they're actually still allowed to judge over there :-) that breast be the primary indication of whether you female --- or not.
I like that, so you actually are 'allowed', if you just know so, to be transsexual, never mind the status in your knickers. As much at it seems contrary to what some in this forum at times seem to suggest.
Axelle
Wendy,
to qualify, I'm NOT talking SOC, which is something else but COURT OF LAW.
If there be a discrimination charge contenting you are male for what ever reason, and you have breasts the judge with go by you having breast (visible) and accept for female status.
If you sneak BA between the time of dispute and your court appearance I guess it would not count --- unless the judge be satisfied you look female, with or with out BA.
BTW, any change in gender marker in Germany is essentially ALSO only passed by a judge, assisted by a psychiatrist experienced in gender issues. And ALL is ONLY done in Berlin!
Wat vie can seh about set here, hm?! Can vie pass or not, dat is de queshn?!
(Judge consulting assistent... ja)
Axelle
Quote from: Axélle on August 15, 2011, 07:06:14 AM
Wendy,
to qualify, I'm NOT talking SOC, which is something else but COURT OF LAW.
If there be a discrimination charge contenting you are male for what ever reason, and you have breasts the judge with go by you having breast (visible) and accept for female status.
If you sneak BA between the time of dispute and your court appearance I guess it would not count --- unless the judge be satisfied you look female, with or with out BA.
BTW, any change in gender marker in Germany is essentially ALSO only passed by a judge, assisted by a psychiatrist experienced in gender issues. And ALL is ONLY done in Berlin!
Wat vie can seh about set here, hm?! Can vie pass or not, dat is de queshn?!
(Judge consulting assistent... ja)
Axelle, wrong accent. Remember Robert Di Nero in Taxi? U talkin' ta me? R u talkin' ta me? R U TALKIN' TA ME? Bang Bang Bang! Would I have to go to a male prison? Can you take a shower by yourself in prison? Would they let me go to female prison? It would make sense to go to female prison as I am about as strong as a big female.
Wendy,
if having any intend going to ANY prison ANYWHERE you better had your bottom fixed, sharp-ish, like real fast!
I'll have mine, so I might consider a nice femme prison to feed me if all turns South?
Yet NEVER underestimate some very strong dykey females. They often in there just for some very good reason, being weak in body may not be one of them.
Not sure your HRT, second puberty and all, and even after having grown up some, may make you a good match then :-)
Axelle
Quote from: Axélle on August 16, 2011, 02:08:18 AM
Yet NEVER underestimate some very strong dykey females. They often in there just for some very good reason, being weak in body may not be one of them.
As one of those 'dykey females' who also happens to have considerable experience in the criminal justice field, I would remind you that almost everyone in prison is in there for 'some very good reason.'
Thanks, for expert confirmation, Ann.
As I said either way not a good thing to wind up in there (prison), with OR without SRS.
We might just get too much "attention" from either side where ever they'd put us.
Slipped again, eh. May only call myself a dyke, femme-trans-dyke if you wish, not PC for any other references, yes?
SA is a bit less PC and sorry I keep on stumbling.
Not that it ever would cross my mind to call anyone names.
Not even sure butch-lesbian is allowed over your place (US)?
Tough negotiating in trying to say things at times, the usual, eh.
Was hooked up with a lawyer for 19 years, I feel the vibrations...
So, please no offence yet once AGAIN.
Axelle
Quote from: Axélle on August 16, 2011, 10:45:38 AM
Slipped again, eh. May only call myself a dyke, femme-trans-dyke if you wish, not PC for any other references, yes?
when used by a non-lesbian, dyke oftentimes carries the same connotation as a non-black person using the N word...in other words it was rarely a term of endearment if you catch my drift.
QuoteNot even sure butch-lesbian is allowed over your place (US)?
Butch is not used near as much as it once was, although still enjoys common use in some parts of the country...it began to fade where I am when there was a shift away from the butch-femme dichotomy. But as with 'dyke' it is a term that is descriptive within the community and is more often associated with and used as a slight by those outside of the community...
* when used by a non-lesbian, dyke oftentimes carries the same connotation as a non-black person using the N word...in other words it was rarely a term of endearment if you catch my drift. *
And when used by a BI person?? Please tell.
In any case I'm a bit more of a lessie than a hetero, so what then?
..............
OK, butch IS a bit old, so over here we'd call that a "diesel-dyke" *)
One big mama that would be.
Thanks for feedback Ann, um
Axelle
PS: *) imagine that now in your place --- could get life threatening?
Talk about thread drift... :police:
Quote from: Axélle on August 16, 2011, 11:17:47 AM
* when used by a non-lesbian, dyke oftentimes carries the same connotation as a non-black person using the N word...in other words it was rarely a term of endearment if you catch my drift. *
And when used by a BI person?? Please tell.
In any case I'm a bit more of a lessie than a hetero, so what then?
Situational context...if you are among friends, you could probably get away with it. If you are just at the party and don't really know the other guests, probably ought not to use the D word...
just sayin' is all ;)
QuoteOK, butch IS a bit old, so over here we'd call that a "diesel-dyke" *)
One big mama that would be.
Oh, I am familiar with the term...but generally speaking, even women who use the term except in a few select areas are probably looking for an ass-whooping when that term comes out of someones mouth.
QuotePS: *) imagine that now in your place --- could get life threatening?
Generally I don't fear for my safety because of being lesbian...even near the lake property, which is in a relatively conservative area north of Houston, most people who know me know that I am lesbian. My regular bartenders let me know when prospective dating targets are expected in or when they have a lesbian friend who is on the prowl. Nonetheless, I still remain cognizant of my surroundings and I do maintain a .40-cal Colt that has no safety...and has a clip full of hollow-point ammunition.
Within Austin, I am in perhaps the most liberal area of the State. We had domestic-partner benefits in Travis County back in the 80's and we also had an openly lesbian sheriff for a period of time. Margo was good people...
Thanks Ann,
good insights.
I'm ALWAYS a nice bird, mostly, if not stepped on selfsame toes.
Also at parties.
All within frame work of puberty and growing up some more? Yes, I think so.
There are these early puberty issues aggravating lack of correct communication. This in my own knowing, um... can piss people off and quite unintentional so.
Not sure if .40 cal / .22 ? be good thing if not having arrived at certain mature level past 2nd puberty.
Since I am rather old (not emotionally as yet) I still easily can claim female privilege of "oldest" in rank.
Does come useful at times provided educated people are present that know about "Knigge 2000" proper manners for all, or most situation.
Axelle