It's been a while since I started a thread - not since February last year when I was wearing a Little Black Dress, feeling great and thinking, OK, maybe THIS time I'll finally, finally take the plunge and transition ...
But I didn't.
I went back to my wife, my children, my home and my old life. And for a while it really worked. The marriage went better than it had done in years - maybe ever. We certainly had a great sex life for the only time ever. My kids - two young-adult, one teenager - stopped hating me for what they saw as deserting their mother. It was great to be home ... Because here's the thing. I've done a really great job of acting the part of a man. I've given my family a lovely home with a big garden, which I love tending and cultivating. And I love, love, love my wife and kids.
For a while, I thought that maybe this time, somehow, I'd got past dysphoria. But you don't, do you? It's impossible to get past something that is such a deep, fundamental part of who one is.
I've known I was 'different' since I was a small boy. I discovered what a transsexual was when I was 16 and thought, 'So THAT's what I've been feeling.' If I were 16 now, feeling that way, it would probably be a lot easier. I could have the transition I longed, prayed and cried for at the time. But that was the Seventies and people were so much less aware. I was seeing shrinks from the time I was 18 or 19 and I kept telling them how I felt ... and they kept telling me it was just a fantasy, it wasn't real, it would soon pass, etc ...
So I did what so many other TS men have done and made myself a kind of cliché of masculinity. Some do it by joining the military. I did it by being very successful in my career - which is creative and in many ways deeply satisfying - and, as I say, being the husband and father who provided for his family, bought the big house ... and quietly went round the bend.
And the more I did that, the harder it was to stop. I have people depending on me financially. I have children who want - and surely have a right to expect - a proper Dad. I have professional and social status, which I'd have to be nuts to give up. I walk down the street and I look like a fit, well-dressed, moderately handsome guy that everyone takes to be a perfectly normal, football-loving, beer-chugging, middle-class professional.
I've been blessed with so much that most people who weren't TS would think it was a total no-brainer. Like: You want to give all that up to do WHAAAT???
So what I'm really wondering is, are there any girls out there who've been in the same place? How did you solve your problems? Did you transition ... or have you found a way to somehow balance who you are on the inside, while keeping the male shell on the outside?
I know I can't expect anyone else to answer this question ... but what the **** am I going to do?
Wow... that's a powerful story.
Quick advise would be to simply find a good therapist who specialized in GID and start there. That's a step before anything else at any rate so give it a whirl. It's also the least permanent of the things that you do during transition so it's likewise the safest.
I've been there, I made the sacrifices that were expected of me. Do I wish I could do it over differently, Yes.
I went back and waited for my kids to graduate college. I did transition, my wife hates it, but we have come to a compromise and still live together. It is never easy.
You know, it's always the typical thought (and I thought it too) that if transitioning is what must take place, that it has to be done all the way, or not at all. This, however, is much further from the truth than one may think. I don't know the level of dysphoria you feel, but I do know that regardless of what end result you'd like to see from transitioning, it will take time to get there.
Basic point, transition only as far as you need to. Don't focus too heavily on the destination, rather much more on the journey. You never know, along the way you might feel great and decide that as far as you may have once wanted to go, isn't really necessary any longer.
I was married and I have a young son; my ex-wife pretended to be supportive, but really was overwhelmed. I told her I'd just take it step by step and only do what I felt was absolutely necessary to calm the dysphoria... what other choice was there? I went to counseling and I began hormones. For me, this alone was enough to calm a great deal of the dysphoria. At the time, I could relatively remain looking male on the outside, or at least androgynous, and feel content on the inside. If I had to go my whole life living that way, I feel I would have overall been content. However, for my ex-wife, even this was too far. Things did not work out for me and her, and ultimately I made the decision to go all the way with my transition.
Point is, if you end up only transitioning partially and both you and your family are comfortable, you lose nothing. Unless it's been spoken, transitioning does not always mean losing the ones we love. However, if it truly is one or the other in your situation, I feel you must decide which you feel would make you more unhappy long-term.
As for me, I did not want my wife to leave; I begged, pleaded and told her everything would stop if she'd just stay... but that's not the reality of it. That's what a lot of us would like to have happen, but it's typically just not possible. The dysphoria is real and ever-present, and I don't believe without transitioning to some degree, that there is a "cure" out there. It's a tough choice, but in retrospect, I'm glad my ex-wife and I are divorced, and I'm glad I have made the choice to continue transitioning all the way. Sure, it hurt at first, but I felt I could either hurt for a small portion of my life, or I could hurt for my entire life. The choice, for me, was undoubtedly already made; I just couldn't see it yet.
I'm sorry you're going through this, but it is all too common. Either way, you gotta do what you feel is right, regardless of consequences. My life is not your life, so certainly don't make a decision based off of anything I've written here. Anyway, we're here for you. Hang in there.
Thank you all so much for your support and for sharing your experiences.
I've had a ton of therapy with people who are very well versed in GID and my situation is pretty simple. I can get the letters I need any time I want. There's no doubt that I'm an appropriate candidate. But both the people whose approval I need have made the same condition: I just have to really want to do it - unambiguously.
They can't help me with that. In the end, I'm the only one that can decide.
And if it were just down to me, I would do it - hell, I'd have done it years ago. But it's hardly fair to make my son move out of the house he's lived in all his life because I need my half of the cash to fund my procedures .. or to screw up his adolescence, right when he's got his own ->-bleeped-<- to deal with AND the pressure of exams.
On the other hand, how much of a duty does anyone have to other people? I mean, are we obliged to sacrifice our identity and fulfilment for theirs?
Or am I just using them as an excuse not to act? Because it's scary - really scary - when one has enjoyed all the advantages of being a white, straight, middle-class male to throw them all away ... no matter how messed-up I feel ...
But then I think of that LBD and ACHE for the right body to put in it ...
Quote from: Cryss on June 05, 2012, 12:54:12 PM
You know, it's always the typical thought (and I thought it too) that if transitioning is what must take place, that it has to be done all the way, or not at all. This, however, is much further from the truth than one may think. I don't know the level of dysphoria you feel, but I do know that regardless of what end result you'd like to see from transitioning, it will take time to get there.
I meant to reply to this in the post above - sorry for doubling!
I think that one of the things that holds me back is that my very strong conviction is that I couldn't do this half-way. I'm one of the people for whom SRS would be an absolute essential aspect of transition and once I started along the line towards it - whether it was laser/electro for my beard, or quietly taking vocal lessons - I know I wouldn't stop until I was post-op.
I know this because when I have, in the past, followed therapists' suggestions to just try a little weekend feminizing, as it were, it just fees incredibly unsatisfying. I'm simply reminded of all the things I want but can't have.
So it's all or nothing at all for me ...
As for my family - your other point - my wife knows but tries to pretend we can keep going. Poor thing, she's had a LOT else to deal with in the past few years: very, very ill children, etc ...
Is it YOUR life - or THEIR life...?
It is said that the only act more selfish then transition is suicide. Maybe 'going around the bend' and ending in some asylum? I picked transition. But that's me.
And I pay/paid the price re. family... One son, two ex's... lost 'friends' and no more employment. Life goes on, and I have no regrets. There is NOTHING to regret – for me. Regret for who I am? Nope.
So, - how many of us try to have their cake (be who you really are) and eat it (enjoy the fruits of your male-guise life)?
If your GID takes to close to the edge as it was with me... the answer as to what to do becomes a LOT easier.
Only you will know how bad it is. It does come in 'waves' which is pretty well known. I was NOT prepared to live a life in misery (any more) - are you?
In some cases HRT (low level) can be the answer - CAN. In my case it was not.
I could NOT be who I am anymore in male-guise. Could NOT. Only you will know. So once again it is for you to KNOW... how much you are willing, and actually ABLE to handle.
Lastly, as you seem to confirm, and know, it keeps getting worse with age rather then go away. It doesn't.
I transitioned full time when 63! had SRS at 65! am on HRT 23 month now, having turned 66 three days ago! And I pass, and it of course helps – a lot – with me...
I mention this so you get some perspective about what I had to say.
BUT - YMMV, as we are ALL different, as SIMILAR as our issues are when all is said and done.
Now I wish you some divine inspiration for your next steps,
Axélle
PS: just read your last post, yes it was "all or nothing" for me as well as far as SRS is concerned. I had a quadruple by-pass to be able to have SRS and two brain ops just before my planned SRS due to an aneurism. "If it's the LAST thing I'll do..." was what I had to say about having SRS. Here I am :)
Hi Carlita. I know what you mean. I didn't really address my long-undiagnosed transgender issues, but I found ways to cope.
Here's my blog entry, with some comments by readers:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,120682.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,120682.0.html)
I'm not in your situation (no kids, 27, unmarried), but I hope you won't mind me sharing my thoughts with you.
Quote from: Carlita on June 05, 2012, 01:04:21 PM
On the other hand, how much of a duty does anyone have to other people? I mean, are we obliged to sacrifice our identity and fulfilment for theirs?
If your kids are under 18, you have a legal and moral obligation to take care of them. Laws aside, I feel like if you give a child life, you have an obligation to care for that life until it is self-sufficient. I don't know the state of your finances, but if pursuing transition *fully* would compromise that, I would hold off of it, or take it in more financially responsible steps (in terms of money spent). Things like hormones, name changes, clothes, therapy, hair removal - those aren't really expensive (relative to the entire cost of transition), and you could pursue those while still taking care of your children. You can still fully transition (all or nothing) and delay some of the more costly procedures until after your kids are old enough (or finances allow it).
As for your wife, she has reasonable expectations of you that come with being married. In that sense, you do have a "duty" to fulfill for her as part of your marriage agreement. She anticipated being married to a male for the long term, and by transitioning, you would deprive her of that. That's not to say that your marriage couldn't survive your transition or that you couldn't remain amiable with your wife.
Ultimately, I don't believe anyone has an obligation of duty to any other person. That certainly could amount to a very selfish and lonely existence, though. I think for your situation, you can find a compromise. You may feel a duty to be Dad or act out the male part for the well-being of others, but those others certainly have a duty to reciprocate and look out for your well-being - which may mean others compromising on your identity.
Quote from: Carlita on June 05, 2012, 12:37:53 PM
I have children who want - and surely have a right to expect - a proper Dad.
Even if you can't be "Dad" to your kids any more, you can still fulfill the role of "Parent". There are plenty of same-sex couples, or kids who have lost a parent, or single parents for which there is no "Dad" or no "Mom", and those kids turn out fine.
Quote from: Carlita on June 05, 2012, 12:37:53 PM
I have professional and social status, which I'd have to be nuts to give up. I walk down the street and I look like a fit, well-dressed, moderately handsome guy that everyone takes to be a perfectly normal, football-loving, beer-chugging, middle-class professional.
I've been blessed with so much that most people who weren't TS would think it was a total no-brainer. Like: You want to give all that up to do WHAAAT???
This may just be a case of the grass being greener on the other side. Outsiders might look at your situation and think it is ideal, without knowing that the reality is hell for you. I told a friend once about being transgender, and part of her response was "you are a good-looking guy, so it's too bad to lose that." My thought was such a thing would be nice,
if I wanted to be a guy! So for you, all of those blessings are blessings, only if that fits in with everything else.
Quote from: Carlita on June 05, 2012, 12:37:53 PM
I've done a really great job of acting the part of a man.
So the question is...do you want to continue acting the part for the rest of your life? If you feel like the personal sacrifice for the benefit of those around you (wife, kids) is worth it, then that might be the route to take.
Do your kids know about your desire to transition? Another thing to consider is this: how would they feel if they learned (years from now, when you've passed on) that Dad was unhappy behind the scenes about something? As a parent, you want the best for your kids, but they want good things for you as well. They might not understand now, but when they are adults they may appreciate more what it means for you to pursue your happiness.
You really need to look at your priorities in life and figure out how transition will affect them, good or bad. Money, status, stuff - I really don't believe any of that is important. Focus on the people you care about and work with them on your transition. Good luck, and I hope some of this helps you.
Yes, I feel like this.... I feel EXACTLY like this... my male self had this amazing life! amazing. I tell myself, "it's not like Aubrey isn't going to have an amazing life.". My job is more than fine with everything, my friends never left, and most are truly excited.. (A couple like Aubrey more than my male self.)
I tell myself, it always comes back. ALWAYS. Yet here I am two months away from FFS and full time, and I am paralyzed with fear. It's like my brain can't remember a time when I was EVER feminine. (My earliest memory was when i was 4.). I sit and say "What if doing this is a mistake?", and in the same breath, say "What if NOT doing it is a mistake?". It's a form of madness.
I have had no peace with this. I love my female body, but hate my male face. I cannot think about cutting my hair short again. I realize, I don't want to go back to male, not sure if I want to be female..... And I also don't want to be in between. What IS this madness? Does my soul really care what gender I am? I think it's hormonally induced depression. Take more time, people say, yet it has been 42 years of taking my time. 42 years of doing the same thing over and over again. I wish I would have transitioned when I was young, I think to myself. I wish I would have had all the internet, and access to even know there were people LIKE me in the world when I was young.
And I still don't seem to have an answer. For the longest time, I stayed male. I grew spiritually, I became peaceful. Then I decided to address this issue once and for all. I realized that I am female. Even though my male self had a great life, the best parts of me are female. And I do know that I will have just as awesome of a life as Aubrey, yet I sit here scared to death.
Yes, I'm in your boat. (My daughter is fully accepting though, and her mother and I weren't together very long.) And no, sorry, I don't have any answers for you. But maybe just knowing you're not alone in your thoughts will help a bit. I know reading your post and replies helped me a bit. I'm still locked in my madness, but for a few moments, I realized that it was natural, and that others feel it too.
Love and light to you. Good luck on your journey.
I have a similar problem, but you are a step ahead since you tried to transition once. With two adult sons and a grandson on the way it seems odd to want to go through this now, but I am. Stopping may be as hard a decision as starting, but we never know if ......
I spent 20 years hiding Kathy deep inside, yet my soul is still alive. A little crushed, but alive.
While my situation is different from yours, there are a lot of similarities in motivation. I can't say that my transition has gone according to plan, I'm about a year behind were I'd like to be in my process, but my process is moving forward.
Like you, I kept trying to go back to not transitioning, but something intrinsic in me makes it impossible for me not to transition. As much as I'd love to wake up tomorrow and be living the life I've always known I should be living, I know Rome wasn't built in a day either.
As was mentioned by someone else, there are things you can do to get started. I can't tell you the difference 9 months of laser made for my state of mind.
Thanks for sharing, all. Not much to add, but it's comforting to read similar stories
I've just read the first post, so there's probably something I missed, but you know, nothing forces you to leave your family. You can very well transition and stay where you are. If your wife truly loves you, she should understand and either stay or not hold it against you. If you explain well and calmly and accompany her into understanding you, that is. A decent employer wouldn't fire you for that, either.
As for your children, they should accept it, really. Most children take it well, I think. And maybe they'll even be happy, to both have you back and see you happier than ever before, to know what was wrong with you and that it's going to be fixed.
Your story Carlita is soooo similar to mine. I felt this way since I was about 4. Wrote to the Erickson Educational Foundation when I was like 12 for literature after hearing about them, I think around the same time The Christine Jorgenson Story made it on the TV airwaves. Started to realize by the age of 16, between my gene pool and overabundance of T, I stood next to no chance of passing (6' 220 lbs balding). Having to face an entire lifetime of scorn and ridicule for being different, on top of what I was already getting made the decision easier to just try to fake being normal. Although I did try twice to see if maybe I can....
In the end I took the easy route, Normal. Worked fairly hard at it, wound up being very successful since I was getting paid to do something I loved (playing with electronics). Got to see the world and a good part of the USA, apparently I was great with customers. None of this I could ever believe since I was, after all, a fake. I even went as far as trying to convince myself, an others that knew about my "hobby" that I was merely a cross-dresser in need of an escape every few weeks.
Massive amounts of diversions, distractions and a touch of denials worked for about 30 years. Hitting a major pot-hole of life brought it all bubbling back to the surface. I am in my third year of working at a new job that cannot give me the same level of challenges, and recognition that kept my mind diverted and also happy. Some 350 miles away is my wife and home. So basically separated. The prospect of her being able to escape NJ anytime soon remain slim. Breaking the news to my wife 2 years ago that I need to continue going to a TG group was not easy. She is incredibly understanding. We've been together, one way or another, for over 30 years and known about me from day one. Oh yeah, she is also a post-op MTF. Nevertheless, understanding only goes so far :o
All this time alone, free to experiment, a massive infusion of self-worth thanks to the TG group and some therapy, I began doing more than presenting for the monthly meeting. I describe myself now as living 3 lives. I have one as a husband back in NJ, a life as a male here, and a life as a female here. Of those 3 lives, only one makes me feel alive. A scary sign for me. Especially since passing apparently came way too easy. So much for my lifelong excuse that I can never get by as a woman.
After a few WTF freak outs, I came to about the same conclusion Cryss mentioned. Think of the journey, not the destination. (Which is also an old sailing adage). Being Joanne on weekends and evenings is something I need to do right now. Where will it lead to? I never was a transition or die type. Life sucks, get over it is more like it. What level will be needed once (or if) my wife and I are cohabiting once again? No idea. As she says, the door was opened and the cow the left the barn.
What I want, above all else, is a return to normal between my wife and I. To look forward once again to a long happy life together fulfilling all our shared hopes, wishes, and dreams. Being full-time is waaaaaaay down on my must-do list. What "Normal" will look like now is uncharted territory. Will transitioning to full-time become even more important before that day comes? I often wonder as the weeks and months pass by. The surety I will be out of a job if I do tends to counterbalance, and then some, those feelings.
Trying to strike a balance was easy provided life was running smoothly. I always had the luxury of a wife that was OK with my occasional dressing. Even the more than occasional during high stress periods (work related). It had worked for some 30 years and would have continued to if my personal circumstances did not change so radically.
This new balance point I am trying maintain is a lot harder. Each passing month adds a little more weight to tilt things more towards transition. At the very least more time presenting as Joanne and broadening my experiences being out in the real world. Outside of the very well controlled venues I started with.
I am always totally amazed at the similarity of our stories and timelines...so many of them are word for word my situation as well! it seems like only the names have been changed!
I so despise being male and always have, but the early 70's were no time for a 16yo confused "girl in a boys body" to try and explain to others what she felt, I would have been sent off to gawd knows where military school for "reprograming" or worse (conservative parents, ugh)
So I did what some of us others did...became very very good at the charade of being male enough to fool all those around us at the expense of our own peace of mind and sometimes sanity!
Failed marriges and relationships, but great careers and a good income for distraction and to keep me from being "home" to much...I felt like I was just "putting in time" pleasing others, always thinking someday its my turn!!! I even had a close co worker/friend come out at work and go thru the entire happy transition 20 years ago, I was more than understanding of course, but it was "her turn" so I never mentioned my plight at all just to be polite.
Now married again to a great girl 10 years younger, very secure in her own way, never had kids but loves my adult kids very much!
So here I am, enjoying the great company of my sisters at Susans, things are looking up and I am finally able to be "myself"!! I own my own business and customers are apointment only which helps and is good for now.
Wow ... I can't believe my luck. I can't go on Susan's at home, so I had to wait till I was in my office - and it's MY office, so there's no danger of being watched over - till I could see if I'd had any replies to my posts ... and to get these ... well, it just tells me why this forum is such a lifeline.
So much understanding
So much empathy
So much support
So much thought and effort put into your replies
So much love
It's just wonderful. Every single person has made points that I'd love to pursue; everyone has aid something that has helped me, inspired me, or made me think, 'Oh I know how THAT feels!', but I actually have to do some work eventually - ;) - so I just want to say THANK YOU ...
It's great to have such lovely sisters ... And, of course, even greater to know that I'm not alone.
As many of the others have said. your story is similar to each of our own. I did, however, try to bury everything by going into the Army. That worked for me for the most part, but was miserable. I didn't know what transexual was until I got out in the 90's after 20 years. My kids are all full grown. My daughters are estrange from me do to not being there whle they grew up. My son is great. He is still confused (I think) about my transitioning somewhat. But the emotional rollercoaster you are experiencing is common.
As was suggested you should pursue counseling. Keep going to it. I can't advice you about your dilemma. You are not me and I am not in your shoes. If you transition then be prepared to lose it all. That could happen. I have been blessed with a supportive mother and sisters as well as my son. My daughters do not know yet ogf my transitioning. So I wish you luck in whichever road you travel.
Carlita, yes Susan's and the amazing girls here have helped me so much that I can not even come up with the words to express how thankful I am for this forum!
Some forums are for entertainment, this one is for life!
I love my sisters and brothers here very much :)
Quote from: Michelle G on June 06, 2012, 10:54:02 AM
Carlita, yes Susan's and the amazing girls here have helped me so much that I can not even come up with the words to express how thankful I am for this forum!
Some forums are for entertainment, this one is for life!
I love my sisters and brothers here very much :)
I know I haven't wrote about myself on this topic but I read this and had to add to it at this point. I love y'all. I'm very emotional reading this. This site is for life sometimes I don't feel I would still be here if it were not for all the help, support and comfert I have gottin from here. I take you with me everywhere I go. No matter what I go through you have been with me through it. It does blow my mind how we all suffer the samethings and felt like we were alone but this whole time would lead up to this gathering together in one mind to share our sufferings and hardships. There is no telling what we can do as a whole to change things around us. again i love y'all.
I'm sorry but I can't relate at all. I did not have any success as a boy, and I've still never seen this mystical society where every man is seriously expected to have a beard and a wife and five kids and play with explosives and large vehicles in his spare time or whatever.
I think if you can do all that then, honestly, why should you give it up? Because you have some nagging feeling? Not all nagging feelings are accurate. A little black dress. Okay... is that all? Maybe you could secretly do drag. Some people around here transition and find out that it's not for them.
Everyone is probably gonna want to shove you in the direction of transition because they crave to confirm their identity, but I think there should be a more balanced tone here because you're talking about something serious... I really feel sad for all the wives and children who suddenly find out they've been lied to for 20 years or whatever. That must be so insulting, after you entrusted your whole life and being to someone :(.
I'm sorry, but this is a pretty narrow minded post, and it is lodged strictly in your own situation.
Quote from: pretty on June 06, 2012, 01:03:34 PM
I'm sorry but I can't relate at all. I did not have any success as a boy, and I've still never seen this mystical society where every man is seriously expected to have a beard and a wife and five kids and play with explosives and large vehicles in his spare time or whatever.
Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It does, actually, exist, and just because your story didn't take you along that path, does not mean it is not a VERY REAL path for others. It's like saying "My cancer is worse than your cancer"... I just don't understand that type of thinking.
Quote from: pretty on June 06, 2012, 01:03:34 PM
I think if you can do all that then, honestly, why should you give it up? Because you have some nagging feeling? Not all nagging feelings are accurate. A little black dress. Okay... is that all? Maybe you could secretly do drag. Some people around here transition and find out that it's not for them.
You think that my life's path is based on a fleeting feeling? I wish it would be as easy as you portray it to be in this sentence.
Quote from: pretty on June 06, 2012, 01:03:34 PMI really feel sad for all the wives and children who suddenly find out they've been lied to for 20 years or whatever. That must be so insulting, after you entrusted your whole life and being to someone :(.
And I feel a lot of compassion for you to think this way. Again, if your path was not like this, great. But it is not insulting, it is simply a situation. For you have no idea what we have gone through, because our path is unique to us, as yours is of you. Who would I be to say the way you live your life is insulting? There area many couples who have no animosity towards each other or even between kids and parents. (My daughter has not a single problem with this, and is actually looking forward to it... in her words.)
As I've said here before, we are like books in a library. Sure, we're all books, but we all have different stories to tell, and one is not more "right" than the other.
The whole tone of this post seemed very deragatory towards all that posted in here. I for one am glad to hear of stories like mine... it helps relieve some of the sting of it. I promise you I will never attack you or your story... please give me the same respect.
Quote from: auburnaubrey on June 06, 2012, 02:08:33 PMWho would I be to say the way you live your life is insulting?
If the way I lived my life was having another (usually STRAIGHT, that means "is not attracted to women," though some people don't understand this) woman build her life around a stupid lie just as an accessory to my "fake" masculinity, then yeah I think someone who was actually honest with their partner could call that insulting.
I'm not saying that's
always the case, though it usually is, and that is pretty evident in how many of these situations end in divorce and bad blood.
The problem with a cancer analogy is cancer is a "you have it or you don't" thing, whereas being trans is "you have it if you say you do." Not everyone who thinks they might have cancer actually has cancer.
Well, whatever. Sorry I'm
not the trans supremacist everyone wants everyone to be here. It's not a good thing to be trans. You don't need to shove everyone into that mold. I think if you can make it 30, 40, 50 years without major maladaptivity in a role you've established that you're OK living in that role.
Nobody ever cares about the wives... you can blatantly say you're deceiving and lying to your wife around here and everyone is going to gush with support anyway. Maybe you actually believe that all women are just conveniently going to turn lesbian ::). I see that a lot.
Okay, just a reminder of the following:
Quote from: Site Terms of Service10. Bashing or flaming of any individuals or groups is not acceptable behavior on this web site and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason. This includes but is not limited to:
- Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term
- Suggesting or claiming that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more legitimate, deserving, or more real than any others
Pretty, if you can't relate to what someone else has gone through, fine. That doesn't give you the right to judge them.
Quote from: Sephirah on June 06, 2012, 02:53:14 PM
Okay, just a reminder of the following:
Pretty, if you can't relate to what someone else has gone through, fine. That doesn't give you the right to judge them.
That's not my message. I'm suggesting that if you can live a life that is honest to your commitment to the family that you built, you should. And that I don't think the standard for the trans community should be people who build up a family and string them along as a tool to appearing masculine.
To elaborate:
When you hear terms like "actor in a role," does that really sound fair? Would you look your SO in the eye and tell them they are just a part of an act? Decades of their life? How crushing would that be... it's horrible.
Pretty has a point though.
Maybe no so much in the work thing, but the wife and kids thing. You can't expect a woman to just "turn" lesbian for you, because that's basically what you're asking. I'm not trying to insult or not support anybody here, but some people need to be a little more realistic and / or sympathetic towards the SO's. I really feel sorry for the women and children caught up in this that had no clue... I couldn't imagine how frustrating THAT must be... I mean in their eyes, the father of their kids has basically lied to everybody in the family after trying to set a good example and live as a strong role model.
All I know is if a guy I was with told me he wanted to transition to female... I'd be their friend but our sexual energy would be over with that very moment. If my brother came out to my sister in law (3 kids between them) and he was trans, omg... I'd feel absolutely AWFUL for those kids simply because he means the world to them as a DAD.
These issues are not easy ones for transgendered individuals with a spouse, significant other, children (of any age), established career, etc.
The more people you have in your life, the more difficult and complicated the transition issues can become. Many of us have tried to balance our pressing personal needs with our other responsibilities.
I urge those involved in the discussion here to read some of the posts in the "Significant other talk" section.
I'm just going to say my opinion, which might seem odd because I honestly don't have any practical experience of love relationships and such, and I am still beginning in life... My point of view might be a little idealistic, or even less valid because I don't speak from experience, but I still feel the way I do.
Also, in case my text appears more extreme than I intended it to be, I want to make it clear that I am definitely not one of those who believe that "everyone should accept me immediately or they're not worth my attention, and I should not care to understand how they feel, because it's their duty to accept me". It's just that I don't think, either, that everything is the trans person's duty, and that just because it might have an impact on others, they should forget transition and sacrifice their own well-being.
I don't know... Honestly, I don't think someone coming out after having had a family and wife is doing anything wrong per se. Of course, doing so and going away, abandoning them, is another story, but it's not like it's ill-intentioned or selfish otherwise. Maybe I'm a little too open-minded for the norm, but I don't think it has to change anything regarding how the family works and the bonds among it.
Of course, with the wife, it has high chances of changing something. But in the (common) event that the wife doesn't "turn lesbian" for her partner, does that mean that they have to break up the relationship? It is hard to understand at first (and I fully understand that it can be), but the person in front of her is still going to be the same. Just because sex isn't possible anymore, does that mean that love can't be present?
It may differ from the norm, but I see nothing wrong with raising a family as friends. Married friends perhaps, but friends. And if the sexual attraction doesn't work anymore and both feel the need for it, I still don't see anything wrong with the pair agreeing to let each other see new lovers.
In the unfortunate event that divorce and separation ensues, it's sad, but it isn't the end of the world, and it's not 100 % the transitioner's fault, either. Transitioning is less of a choice of a lifestyle than a decision to fix an issue with oneself. Marriage includes vows to remain present and loving for the good and the bad, in illness and in health and such.
In my opinion, whilst the transitioner has a responsibility of acting for the best regarding the family by doing it as nicely and not giving up their responsibilities, the partner is also responsible for doing their best to understand, to accept and to love, again for the family's good.
As for the children, really, if they're upset despite explanation and evidence that their father is always acting for their own good, it almost automatically means to me that they have trouble accepting ->-bleeped-<- to begin with, which is arguably a thing that they should settle in order to become better people... And it turns out their parents are there just for that.
Depending on the way you do things, I think it's very possible to do this in a healthy, honest and grudge free manner. The only requirement is for the wife and children to understand that the husband (I guess it's still okay to say husband at this point) wishes them to be as happy as possible, and has done what he did until now for their sake, and will continue doing so, but now needs the lie to stop to preserve their mental health.
I would sort of relate it to a parent who would be alone with children and a demanding job, and who would gradually become tired. I would not hold a grudge against them if they took on a less demanding but less paying job, resulting in everyone getting less luxury, to avoid a burn-out. Except in the case of transition, any noticeably negative consequence comes from how people take it, since there are no direct consequences that I can think of, except maybe forced divorce in some places, but even that doesn't mean much... Marriage is basically just a paper, and anything else that it can represent (fidelity, love, commitment...) doesn't need the paper to exist at all.
Finally, I hardly believe in the concrete-hard need of a father for children. Mine was mostly a negative experience when he was there, and definitely not missed after divorce, and despite that, I don't think I'm so worse off; not because of that, anyway. And I'm almost sure there are studies out there showing that homosexual parents do as well as heterosexual ones.
The bottom line (actually, lines) is: In my opinion, it's perfectly possible to allow an individual to finally be their true self and still protect everyone. I don't think being trans has to be a bomb with casualties, and I don't think there is a choice to make between transition and family to begin with. On one hand, the transitioner must take into account the moral challenges and the effort of understanding and acceptance it requires from the family, but on the other hand, the family must understand that they do not have the right to keep a good-willing individual from true happiness that doesn't cost them anything.
Quote from: pretty on June 06, 2012, 02:39:30 PM
If the way I lived my life was having another (usually STRAIGHT, that means "is not attracted to women," though some people don't understand this) woman build her life around a stupid lie just as an accessory to my "fake" masculinity, then yeah I think someone who was actually honest with their partner could call that insulting.
I'm not saying that's always the case, though it usually is, and that is pretty evident in how many of these situations end in divorce and bad blood.
The problem with a cancer analogy is cancer is a "you have it or you don't" thing, whereas being trans is "you have it if you say you do." Not everyone who thinks they might have cancer actually has cancer.
Well, whatever. Sorry I'm not the trans supremacist everyone wants everyone to be here. It's not a good thing to be trans. You don't need to shove everyone into that mold. I think if you can make it 30, 40, 50 years without major maladaptivity in a role you've established that you're OK living in that role.
Nobody ever cares about the wives... you can blatantly say you're deceiving and lying to your wife around here and everyone is going to gush with support anyway. Maybe you actually believe that all women are just conveniently going to turn lesbian ::). I see that a lot.
You see things only from your opinion and point of view, and that's fine. that's you, and your opinion. However, if you can step back, and view something objectively (Seeing through eyes not your own), you may be able to see an alternative point of view. I am different than you, and my life was / is much different than your outlook of it. However, I know when a conversation will become an argument, and I truly feel nothing I can write on this page will change your mind, so I'm done.
I will only say that hopefully some day, you can soften your stance and think that with all the possibilities that exist in the Universe, that maybe the way you see it isn't the "only" way. Because that's no different than most of the world that say we are wrong for being transgendered in the first place, and your view is just extremely negative in its origin. there are brighter ways to look at things, and it's not blind at all.
And Alaina, maybe they love him as a person, not as the title of "Dad". Which is exactly what my daughter said to me.
There are a lot of things I don't know about in life - marriage and the dynamic of having a spouse and children being one of them. So I don't feel qualified to talk about that and think that there are people with practical experience in that area better able to offer advice and suggestions in that regard.
What I do know about, however, is this:
Quote from: Carlita on June 05, 2012, 12:37:53 PM
For a while, I thought that maybe this time, somehow, I'd got past dysphoria. But you don't, do you? It's impossible to get past something that is such a deep, fundamental part of who one is.
I'm very familiar with dysphoria, and how it makes you feel. One thing I can talk about is how it affected the relationships I had with people close to me which, granted, were never that many, but anyway.
It's easy to say that people who deal with the way they feel by trying to force it further down and play a 'male' role in life are somehow good at it and should keep doing it. Often what isn't understood is why a lot of folks do it in the first place, rather than just 'bite the bullet' and transition. Particularly by those lucky enough to be born into an age where it's an option right out of the gate. I went the other way in early life, and pretty much shunned it altogether, withdrawing into my mind and attempting to have as little to do with any sort of male associations whatsoever, but the reasons were, I suspect, the same.
It's a painkiller. Or an anaesthetic. A way to numb the discomfort you feel about yourself. Like going to the medicine cabinet and taking a couple of aspirin when you have toothache. The pain goes away, and you don't think about it anymore. At least you
think it goes away. And that's the point - the mind is good at knowing what it needs to feel better, to forget the pain dysphoria causes. And if something takes that pain away then you're going to want to do it. Especially in a time, or a place, where transition literally isn't an option. Where it isn't something you can do even if you desperately want to.
I mean sure, nowadays it's a lot more understood, and information and resources are
far more widely available. But it wasn't ever thus. And what does one do in that situation? Suffer the often crippling pain of dysphoric sensations? Or instinctively find ways to cope, based in part on a self-preservation instinct and a need to keep one's sanity intact? I get why people choose to try to throw themselves into living as a male even though their body screams at them that it's wrong, even though it's something that I personally didn't do. It's the same reason the way I attempted to cope was to build a huge layer of insulation around my mind from it all, and move in, cushions and all.
It removes the pain. It gives you other things to think about. For a while, the discomfort and the horrid sensations are drowned out by the needs of others, the need to be someone for people, to live for them and their expectations. You convince your mind that you're
not the most important thing in the universe and that if you can't do anything about the way you feel, then you
can at least make the world bearable for other people.
The trouble with painkillers, though, or anaesthetics, is that they aren't permanent. The effects fade and once again the pain comes back. Often worse than before. It's as though the dysphoria somehow thinks "okay, you tried to forget me, I'll just have to get my crampons on and dance around inside your head. Maybe
then you'll pay attention to me!" Just like you can't make toothache disappear, no many aspirin you take. Because something is fundamentally wrong. And removing the pain through distraction, or living for other people... well it just addresses the symptoms. It does nothing for the cause.
My own experiences with people close to me, during times of dysphoria, was that it negatively affected them. I was often asked why I was withdrawn, why I was sad. And they blamed themselves for it. Thinking it was their fault and they just weren't being a good enough friend/family member/whatever. At that time I couldn't, and didn't tell them what the
real cause of it was... but the point is that they picked up on it, and try as I might to hide it, or dismiss it, or run away from it... people pick up on things. If you're not right with yourself then people notice, no matter how much you don't want them to. Because you can only force it away for so long, by whatever means you find that works for you, before your efforts fade and it comes back with a vengeance.
Why keep doing it? That's the question. It can become an addiction, like an addiction to morphine. While it's working, all is right with the world. Especially if it becomes a conditioned response over the years - something you learned at an early age when there was no alternative. It can become a reflex action when the pain comes back, you turn to your tried-and-tested methods of making it behave itself and go away again.
Only each time, it takes less and less time for it
to come back. In the meantime, you accrue the trappings of a 'normal' life, built up through your desire to have it. Yet the amount of dysphoric sensation you can subdue by trying to live this life lessens and lessens, just as the effectiveness of a painkiller lessens as you build up a tolerance to it. Until in the end, it doesn't work anymore, and you are faced with the very real prospect of being unable to suppress it anymore, no matter what you do.
And so, finally the questions you ran away from for years stare you in the face and you reach a crunch point. Are you abandoning everything you built up, everyone you love and care about, by wanting to deal with the pain you feel? Or are you wanting to finally be free of it so you can continue to be the loving, caring person you are when it isn't there? Are you wanting to remove the self-destructive feelings and thoughts which make you feel depressed and miserable precisely so your attention isn't forced inwards and away from those you love? When you finally become immune to the effects of your coping method, and the anaesthetic wears off, do you decide to go and get your tooth fixed so you can finally smile without the shadow of pain behind your eyes and those around you wondering why and if it's their fault?
These are questions everyone has to find the answers to on their own. Not something anyone can tell one what to choose, and what to do.
OMG Sephirah! You nailed it right on the head.
Quote from: Sephirah on June 06, 2012, 09:39:04 PM
It removes the pain. It gives you other things to think about. For a while, the discomfort and the horrid sensations are drowned out by the needs of others, the need to be someone for people, to live for them and their expectations. You convince your mind that you're not the most important thing in the universe and that if you can't do anything about the way you feel, then you can at least make the world bearable for other people.
This especially sums up my life
Quote from: auburnaubrey on June 06, 2012, 04:42:25 PM
And Alaina, maybe they love him as a person, not as the title of "Dad". Which is exactly what my daughter said to me.
Well that's sweet. But it doesn't always turn out that way with kids.
Quote from: auburnaubrey on June 06, 2012, 04:42:25 PM
And Alaina, maybe they love him as a person, not as the title of "Dad". Which is exactly what my daughter said to me.
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on June 06, 2012, 10:52:28 PM
Well that's sweet. But it doesn't always turn out that way with kids.
Depending upon age, children are still developing and do not always have a clear understanding of the situation. It is a common occurrence for children to blame themselves or misconstrue the details in some other form. Children of an older age may at first feel anger, frustration and abandonment, but never as a parent would I, or do I feel anyone who is for that matter, turn away from that child despite that belief perhaps not being mutual in either words or actions (or both). People, children included, need time to process and calm their emotions. After this, though I realize not always, many times the child will begin associating with that parent again.
As for me in particular, I have a three-year-old son. I pray that because of his young age, my transition will not have a huge impact on him or his life. In fact, I hope it acts as an aid in some way to better his life. However, should later in his life he decide he wants nothing to do with me, I'd be crushed, but I'd also understand. Most important as a parent for me at that point, would be to reassure him that if he ever changed his mind, I would not turn my back on him.
You can say that children don't always treat the situation that way (viewing the father as a loving "person" instead of "daddy"), but in all actuality and especially in younger children, it seems to be quite so. A child can call the father "daddy," but it's just a name; my son has no understanding of its meaning. It's me, the person, he knows and trusts. Granted, yes, children of an older age may question whether they can trust that parent due to the withholding for so long, but I imagine the child would much rather the parent pursue a life of happiness, than to die unhappy for the sake of maintaining an image for others (whether or not this image at one point was authentic or not is irrelevant; people change).
All in all, we all have the right to pursue happiness for ourselves. We all make mistakes, we all do things that at the time seemed right, and we all change. I don't regret a single thing in my life in relation to my family and the decision to transition. I still love my son, and I still love my ex (in a different way) despite what's changed between us... but I understand that change and the need for it. It is what it is.
? Are you wanting to remove the self-destructive feelings and thoughts which make you feel depressed and miserable precisely so your attention isn't forced inwards and away from those you love? When you finally become immune to the effects of your coping method, and the anaesthetic wears off, do you decide to go and get your tooth fixed so you can finally smile without the shadow of pain behind your eyes and those around you wondering why and if it's their fault?
Sephirah, you actually get it! That statement really hits home with me
funny thing is I will always be DAD to my kids. I have come to the point were I understand I don't have to give up my relationship with my kids. They are my kids and always will be. NOT everone lied to their spouse. when I began to understand all of this I let it all out. I did not know I was trans. I did not understand why I hurt (felt) the way I did. I was able to ignore how I hurt (felt). I did not just come to a point and say I been lieing this whole time about who I am. I did not know who I was to do that.
as far as my wife goes. It was all headed down hill. she is not leaving me because I'm trans. she is leaving because she was not there for me to start with it just gave her something to play on. sure is funny 2 years in and 20years behind and she still has not devorced me. "Just one more year" she said to her mom on the phone to draw social security off me. so who's lieing to who here.
She dragged me out into the pubic and told everyone that I am a transexual. by the way my daughters love the mother daughter time they have with their dad. since their mom is not ever around to do it.
My grandma took me fishing all the time she was a woman and not a man but she sure loved being a dad to me. when my dad was not there for me 20 years.
5 kids yes 5! All 5 will grow up and accept people for who they are no matter what they are. Why? first hand knowlege of this.
By the way LOVE YOU ANYWAY.
To Auburnaubrey: thank you. I really feel a kindred spirit in you and would like to continue this conversation, perhaps, in PMs.
To Pretty: I can only say that I'd hoped I'd made it pretty clear in my post why I - and many other late transitioners, especially those who grew up at a time when the world in general was, by far, even less understanding and tolerant of transgender issues - did my best to live the role that was expected of me. And that included a wife and kids.
Did I lie to my wife? No more than I lied to myself, or thn psychiatrists lied to me. I had so-called experts, time after time, saying, 'Don't worry. This is a fantasy. It's just a phase. It'll pass.' I thought maybe they were right. Maybe I wasn't really transgender.
My wife has always known I had problems, though I didn't formally come out to her until three or four years ago. She knows who and what I am and she loves me. She's a wonderful woman. Does that mean she wants me to transition? Hell no. She wants the man she cuddles up to every night.
Two of my three children know: they're adults and I feel that I've done absolutely everything I can to give them the best start in life. One, I know, would stand by me. The other would find it more difficult. But I wouldn't feel I was letting them down if I transitioned.
Our third child is still a teenager and, as I made clear, that's who I worry about.
And to Sephira: You put it so, so, so well ...
Thank you for expressing so beautifully, and with such insight what it is like to suffer from dysphoria and how one tries to creat coping mechanisms to deal with it. If anyone ever asks me why I am how I am, I'll just say, 'read this'.
And I think you hit a massive nail square on the head when you say that all the things we do to protect those we love from our dysphoria actually end up hurting them. If anyone wants to know what I really feel guilty about it is that my falseness as a man had a huge subconscious effect on my family - like an odourless, invisible, undetectable gas that ends up poisoning everyone who breathes it. I ask myself whether several specific issues my wife and kids' lives have had their roots in my unacknowledged dysphoria.
And so I face another dilemma: wouldl I actually be making things BETTER for everyone else if I were man enough to admit that I am a woman and bloody well go and do something about it?
Quote from: Sephirah on June 06, 2012, 09:39:04 PM
I mean sure, nowadays it's a lot more understood, and information and resources are far more widely available. But it wasn't ever thus. And what does one do in that situation? Suffer the often crippling pain of dysphoric sensations? Or instinctively find ways to cope, based in part on a self-preservation instinct and a need to keep one's sanity intact? I get why people choose to try to throw themselves into living as a male even though their body screams at them that it's wrong, even though it's something that I personally didn't do. It's the same reason the way I attempted to cope was to build a huge layer of insulation around my mind from it all, and move in, cushions and all.
Growing up in an upper middle class midwestern town, with a father who was known to everyone didn't help, but to say I was isolated from "different" is pretty accurate. I had NO idea that there was ANYONE else feeling what I felt until I was 19 or 20, let alone there was a name for it. I thought I was alone, that I was F-ed up, and maybe it will go away. Why would I tell ANYONE I felt this way, when I didn't even know what it was? So easy to say you'd do something different, but as I said before....... just because we are all books, doesn't mean we have the same story. I did whatever I could do to cope as to not put a bullet through my skull, which I pondered for so much of my life. (back then). Basic survivial. And survivial at its core doesn't differentiate gender. It's survivial of self... whatever that is. And I just happened to be male going through that.
Hi Carlita
I have read your story and my honest opinion about it, why are you hiding yourself?...can't go to susan's at home...why not open and honest to your family?
I mean..it's some kind of shadow life you are living now.
You want to be a woman but are not willing to take any risks, you do have some male privileges and you want to keep it.
You told us about when you were young, in the seventees, than it was a lot harder than to go for transition.
Well, I was the one who transitioned in the seventees, and yes it was quite hard to do, but who cares if you don't have any other way.
As always some offers has to be made and if you really are a woman you have to be prepared to loose everything, if you are not losing evrything, you're lucky.
For a woman it's not possible to live a man's life for decades, it will kill you.
It's also hard to keep the male's privileges, like Mick Jagger said in his song, you can't always get what you want.
I wish you wisdom to make the right choice, main thing is be happy, you only get one life, you won't come back.
Quote from: annette on June 07, 2012, 11:06:29 AM
Hi Carlita
I have read your story and my honest opinion about it, why are you hiding yourself?...can't go to susan's at home...why not open and honest to your family?
I mean..it's some kind of shadow life you are living now.
You want to be a woman but are not willing to take any risks, you do have some male privileges and you want to keep it.
You told us about when you were young, in the seventees, than it was a lot harder than to go for transition.
Well, I was the one who transitioned in the seventees, and yes it was quite hard to do, but who cares if you don't have any other way.
As always some offers has to be made and if you really are a woman you have to be prepared to loose everything, if you are not losing evrything, you're lucky.
For a woman it's not possible to live a man's life for decades, it will kill you.
It's also hard to keep the male's privileges, like Mick Jagger said in his song, you can't always get what you want.
I wish you wisdom to make the right choice, main thing is be happy, you only get one life, you won't come back.
I can't argue with a word of that ... I guess I'm just terrified, after all these years, of what I might be about to do to myself, and all those that I love ... but as you say, this is the only life I've got. I don't want to be on my deathbed wondering if I could have lived it better, happier, more natural way ...
Quote from: Carlita on June 07, 2012, 12:45:27 PM
I can't argue with a word of that ... I guess I'm just terrified, after all these years, of what I might be about to do to myself, and all those that I love ... but as you say, this is the only life I've got. I don't want to be on my deathbed wondering if I could have lived it better, happier, more natural way ...
Carlita, you are not alone, I have said those exact words myself! and I am finally after all these years doing something about it before my time is up...sure it wont be the same as if I had acted when I was much much younger, but its the best I can do now and it makes me a much happier person!
I just didnt want my last words to be a shocking confession.
I posted this phrase from a song called "Comes a Time" by the Grateful Dead last week in another thread, this song means so much to me as it speaks volumes to how I feel.
"From day to day just letting it ride.
You get so far away from how it feels inside.
You can't let go cause you're afraid to fall,
But the day may come when you can't feel at all."
Well, Michelle, while we're on the subject of the Dead ...
'It's just a box of rain
I don't know who put it there
Believe it if you need it
or leave it if you dare
But it's just a box of rain
or a ribbon for your hair
Such a long long time to be gone
and a short time to be there'
So true ...
Yes, very true!
Phil Lesh wrote that to honor his dad after he was gone.
So many of their songs really have meaning! Robert Hunter, Garcia and Weir put down some amazing lyrics over the years!!
Quote from: Carlita on June 07, 2012, 12:45:27 PM
I can't argue with a word of that ... I guess I'm just terrified, after all these years, of what I might be about to do to myself, and all those that I love ... but as you say, this is the only life I've got. I don't want to be on my deathbed wondering if I could have lived it better, happier, more natural way ...
Just thinking, would it make sense to look for a therapist/psychologist, just to find out if you are suffering of gid?
I mean, if things are more clear, you know what direction your life has to go, or find ways to cope with it.
I hope you will find a solution for your problem
Quote from: annette on June 07, 2012, 06:29:28 PM
Just thinking, would it make sense to look for a therapist/psychologist, just to find out if you are suffering of gid?
I mean, if things are more clear, you know what direction your life has to go, or find ways to cope with it.
I hope you will find a solution for your problem
Oh, don't worry, I have had YEARS of therapy and there;s absolutely no doubt that I have GID. As I said earlier, I can get the letters I need to start hormone/surgical treatment whenever I need them. The only demand placed on me was that I must really WANT to do it. And now I do.
I just wanted to say to janiemarlena that I completely relate to your feelings for your children. It;s a funny thing, but even when the dysphoria has been at its absolute, crippling worst I have always been a father to my kids, not some kind of second pseudo-mother. Still, I'm sure they'd prefer a dad who was actually a guy ... UNLESS transition makes me happier and more centred, because I'd like to think they'd want a happy parent more than anything - for everyone's benefit.
Just a quick update. A had (another!) completely sleepless night followed by a long, sad (for her and for what it meant for us) but very honest conversation ... and I feel almost certain - more than ever before in my life - that I will start transition properly very soon.
*gives you a big, warm cyberhug*
Not gonna say anything, but I get the feeling you could use one. :)
Quote from: Sephirah on June 10, 2012, 09:49:55 AM
*gives you a big, warm cyberhug*
Not gonna say anything, but I get the feeling you could use one. :)
Thank you ... I love - and need! - the cyberhug and your words have already been an incredible help and inspiration xx
Just remember we are always here for you!!! good luck wishes are being sent your way!
Bigs "hugs" as well :)
My poor wife is completely devastated - sobbing and feeling helpless and inadequate at the thought that no matter what she does, she can never be enough. I feel terrible to be the cause of such pain. Maybe Pretty is right ... maybe people like us should never be so cruel as to try to make it as men and husbands ... Amd if we do, maybe we should put our loved ones before ourselves and just stick it out to the end.
This is so, so hard ...
Dear Carlita,
I am in a very similar situation age wise, kids etc, except that I am now divorced from my ex, but living with my girlfriend of 5 years and have started estrogen only during the last 2 years (now under Dr's care, but without transitioning. I have had the same conversation with a very similar reaction and I am not sure this is the same for you but I realized that my gfriend was worried that I was no longer attracted to her and will abandon her, which is not true. This will take time, but by going slow and reinforcing that this has not changed your love and desire for your wife, she might become more accepting. Remember that you have dealt with this issue for most of your life, but she probably has not. Everyone needs time to adjust to a new situation. Imagine if your wife told you that she was going to transition ftm....
I am 'out' to my girlfriend, but not to my kids since I feel they would not handle it well at this stage in their life (teenagers). The Estrogen has had a very positive impact on my GiD. I have no idea where this will go, but at the moment I am going to continue along this non=transitioning route and my girlfriend is getting much more used to the idea of me with my more feminine body.
I hope things will look more positive very soon!
xo
Tanya
Those are very helpful words. My only problem comes under the heading of 'love and desire.' My GID doesn't affect my love for my wife, but it certainly affects my desire for her - or anyone else. That's been a problem for many, many years with me. I've always been heterosexual, in that I've always had girlfriends and wanted to have sex with them when the GID is at bay. I've never had desire for sex with a man ... as long as I was also a man. But for as long as I can recall, I've always wished I could have sex with a man ... but as a woman. I realized very, very young that I would much rather have been in the girl's position, with her body than in my position with mine.
I think you might want to do a couple therapy with your wife and see what you can do.
Quote from: A on June 11, 2012, 09:38:31 AM
I think you might want to do a couple therapy with your wife and see what you can do.
Good plan!
Oh, right. Since the issue revolves around sex from the looks of it, a sexologist might be best suited.
Yes, your situation sounds very, very familiar to me. I am finding that these days i'm thinking about the same things as you are. The psuedo-male persona, the successful career, the kids, my wife, my parents, my age..... and what people would say if they knew i owned a few pairs of heels.
It is hard :-\
I agree that couples therapy may be of help. Or better put, as a couple therapy, with a gender therapist if you have one.
As for your inner turmoil, is there a TG support group nearby? Nearby for me is 90 miles away. They are my first ever group after 50 years of dealing with being trans and 2 attempts at seeing what transition may be like. I wasn't expecting much from it since "I knew it all". I was also an emotional wreck, my life torn asunder, and being trans a root cause for most of it. To say it has been life changing would be an understatement. The group is mainly TS's, most of whom are full-time, working towards it, or post-op. None of which gave my wife warm-fuzzies about me going.
Scheduling time with your wife to dress at home may also help. For me once a month or so was enough to keep me from going crazy for decades.
I think a support group is a really excellent suggestion - and a partners' one for my wife, too, might be very useful. Right now, she feels as though she's preparing for bereavement: an absolute loss of the man she loves.
As for dressing, my feeling is that it frustrates me, more than relaxes me. When I wear a dress it feels completely natural, but it also reminds me of all the ways in which I'm not (yet) female. That said, I think the compromise towards which we may be moving - for the sake of our teenage son - is to start what you might call transition-by-stealth ... in other words doing as much as conceivably possible while still being able to maintain the exterior role and appearance of a man (eg. weight loss, voice-training, beard/body-hair removal, hair transplant, early stages of HRT). Since - as many Susan's girls can surely testify - one can go an awful long way towards full transition under those circumstances, that may make it possible for me to dress in private and feel a lot more womanly when I do it.
Meantime, I think it's time I Googled a few support groups!
If you feel you can't fully transition immediately, perhaps you can draw up a rough agenda that will let you feel that you are at least doing something.
Karen.
It is funny that you mentioned bereavement. It is very easy to see how an SO goes through it. What is hard to realize is that many of us do to. In many ways we do kill off a part of us that has been with us a long time. I had my bout during a major WTF am I doing meltdown in December that lasted a couple of months. In my case it was guilt leading to a sense of Joanne dying in my mind. I was almost as depressed as I was when a parent died. At next months meeting of my TG group a Bereavement Counselor is going to be our guest speaker.
Quote from: Carlita on June 12, 2012, 05:03:47 AM
I think a support group is a really excellent suggestion - and a partners' one for my wife, too, might be very useful. Right now, she feels as though she's preparing for bereavement: an absolute loss of the man she loves.
As for dressing, my feeling is that it frustrates me, more than relaxes me. When I wear a dress it feels completely natural, but it also reminds me of all the ways in which I'm not (yet) female. That said, I think the compromise towards which we may be moving - for the sake of our teenage son - is to start what you might call transition-by-stealth ... in other words doing as much as conceivably possible while still being able to maintain the exterior role and appearance of a man (eg. weight loss, voice-training, beard/body-hair removal, hair transplant, early stages of HRT). Since - as many Susan's girls can surely testify - one can go an awful long way towards full transition under those circumstances, that may make it possible for me to dress in private and feel a lot more womanly when I do it.
Meantime, I think it's time I Googled a few support groups!
One thing I wish I would have done differently (If I had the mindset to do this) would have been to "be" Aubrey more often before this point. I seem to be lost in the state of "Who is this person?"...... not seemingly able to make the connection that it is just ME. As my therapist said today, "stop focusing on the fact that you are changing your gender. You are just becoming congruent with yourself."
Somehow, I really separated my male self and female self... so much so that my brain is trying to make sense of me "becoming" someone else. I'm not. I'm just me... but I never fully let her live, or develop. Because of that, it seems this is a much bigger step than it needs to be.
Quote from: auburnaubrey on June 12, 2012, 03:00:48 PM
Somehow, I really separated my male self and female self... so much so that my brain is trying to make sense of me "becoming" someone else. I'm not. I'm just me... but I never fully let her live, or develop. Because of that, it seems this is a much bigger step than it needs to be.
I did that too, still do (not for much longer, I hope). It's funny because I believe many of the traits of my REAL self, the feminine one, would be much better received than my fake male, put-on persona. Plus it's really alienating having to repress all the time words and attitudes. I don't know how politicians can get away with that... ;D
Quote from: Elena G on June 13, 2012, 02:46:07 AM
I don't know how politicians can get away with that... ;D
It's easier when you're getting paid to do it... lol
I think I understand the part about how transition when married is in a sense lying to your partner. However, I also know that what's been done is done and hopefully more trans awareness will make it so future trans lesbians will not feel the need to have kids and getnmarried and they will transition young and settle better into their lesbian role.
Quote from: auburnaubrey on June 12, 2012, 03:00:48 PM
One thing I wish I would have done differently (If I had the mindset to do this) would have been to "be" Aubrey more often before this point. I seem to be lost in the state of "Who is this person?"...... not seemingly able to make the connection that it is just ME. As my therapist said today, "stop focusing on the fact that you are changing your gender. You are just becoming congruent with yourself."
Somehow, I really separated my male self and female self... so much so that my brain is trying to make sense of me "becoming" someone else. I'm not. I'm just me... but I never fully let her live, or develop. Because of that, it seems this is a much bigger step than it needs to be.
Two things ...
1. I agree with you ... again! :)
2. If that is you in your avatar pic ... and you look that good and that female before FFS ... you are going to be dynamite after it!
QuoteSomehow, I really separated my male self and female self... so much so that my brain is trying to make sense of me "becoming" someone else. I'm not. I'm just me... but I never fully let her live, or develop. Because of that, it seems this is a much bigger step than it needs to be.
Since I was a preteen I have always been Michelle, but what people "saw" in public and in family life was a boy named Michael...in private or when I have been alone my mannerisms change to how I "really" feel...that is the true me!
Fortunately in my careers I have been able to work alone for the most part, which means even though I might appear male its still 100% ME inside and I can walk and act in a way that's comforting to me, that's where I get my piece of mind from!
Now that I can be myself in "3D" at home with an accepting spouse its even better than I could ever have imagined, I can shop with her for cute clothes, she shares her "girl tips and hints" with me and its so nice to hear my name without it being in the form of "teasing" from people being "funny" by calling me the girl version of my birth name...which actually isn't as damaging as you would think :)
Aubrey...I absolutely LOVE your new profile pic!!! :)
Quote from: Carlita on June 13, 2012, 09:51:35 AM
2. If that is you in your avatar pic ... and you look that good and that female before FFS ... you are going to be dynamite after it!
Thank you. Yep, it's me.... and FFS is coming August 5th! (Yikes!)
Quote from: Michelle G on June 13, 2012, 11:33:33 AM
Aubrey...I absolutely LOVE your new profile pic!!! :)
Thanks Michelle!
Quote from: Adrasteia on June 05, 2012, 05:27:39 PM
Thanks for sharing, all. Not much to add, but it's comforting to read similar stories
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smakynet.com%2Fimages%2Fhello.gif&hash=4eb1a6f8f195c3402626816cdf7ba516b213b544)
Me too.
You are all awesome, brave, and give me hope and strength.
Thank you....