What is happiness worth?
I have pretty good life.
I have a wonderful wife who I love and who loves me.
I have two incredible children who I love and (at the moment) love me back.
I have work that is very fulfilling and very rewarding (although the pay is not terrific).
I have a circle of friends that love and support me in my work.
I have community of faith that nurtures me and respects me for the work that I do among them.
I am HAPPY!!! I think?
But I also have a secret I've kept for almost all of my life. Sometimes I think that If I just told
everyone my secret and started living my life as I was always meant to live it -- well, then, I
would have more than a pretty good life. I'd have a pretty wonderful life!!
No... wait a minute, let's think about this for a moment...
My wife? My wife would probably leave me rather than try to change her sexual orientation.
My children? My children are too young to understand and my adolescent son would hate me for causing even more sexual confusion during an already very sexually confusing time in his life.
My work? There is NO WAY I could continue in my current position after I shared my secret. It would be devastating not only to my personal ministry but to the ministry that I have worked so hard to build. Best guess? Half of our constituents would never come back while I was here and the other half would... I have no idea!! Beside, it wouldn't matter because if we lost half of our income we would not last more than a year or two anyway.
My friends? Well, how many of them would stick around after the divorce and how many, who are my friends from my ministry with them, would still call me after we've stopped working together and after I devastated the ministry that we shared?? All of them? Some of them? None of them? I don't know.
My community of faith? Well they are already split over same sex marriage and accepting my homosexual brothers and sisters in their midst. I don't even think the Transgender/Transexual issue is on their radar. Hey, I know, why don't I divide them even further by making them deal with a Transgender person on top of the issues with which they are already struggling? No... the time is not right.
So... what is my happiness worth?
Anybody have any answers for me? I'm at a loss. (by the way - It's a rhetorical question I know you can't answer it for me)
I just had to get this one off my chest and wail at the wall a little. I would appreciate comments though. And if my wailing has given anyone food for thought... good. If I've made you relive a struggle you've already dealt with and would rather not revisit... sorry for opening an old wound.
Debbie
From what I've seen here and experienced myself, the fact that you're asking this question tells me what you're likely to do. Eventually. In Time.
I mean I don't know, and I don't want to push you into anything, it's just that this question seems to often mark the beginning of what I call the justification process of the GID. You feel the pull, you WANT to fix things, but... you first need to gather up the courage to risk everything to begin fixing it - even if that means starting entirely over with your life.
Again, not that it's inevitable or even right for you - everyone has to find their own, unique solution to all this. BUT, if you look at GID like a disease in a sense, it does seem to follow this pattern to some degree. The *underlying* unhappiness builds and builds until the surface Good Things just don't compensate for it anymore, and... you roll the dice.
Kate
Quote from: Kate on April 11, 2007, 01:26:12 PM
Again, not that it's inevitable or even right for you - everyone has to find their own, unique solution to all this. BUT, if you look at GID like a disease in a sense, it does seem to follow this pattern to some degree. The *underlying* unhappiness builds and builds until the surface Good Things just don't compensate for it anymore, and... you roll the dice.
Thank you for your comments Kate. I understand the "underlying" unhappiness with the gender I present to the world. It wells up up in me and scares me sometimes. But then I bottle it up again, count my blessings and move on (until it wells up again).
Something I don't quite understand in your comment is that "the surface Good Things don't compensate for it anymore". At this point its very hard for me to to see my family, my work, my friends, and my faith community as surface good things. They go to the very core of my being and perhaps are equal to my previously hidden Transgendered self.
In this world that we live in it seems that I can't have them both (my current life and life as the woman that I feel inside of me). Or can I? I'm on a journey to see if I can. I know many people have tried to combine the two and eventually have had to make painful decisions - both for themselves and for those that they love.
One more comment on your very thoughtful reply - I'm generally opposed to "rolling the dice" (I'm seeing that as making arbitrary decisions according to some outside influence and that may not be what you meant) but I'm not opposed to releasing my control over what happens in my life. Releasing my control and letting my life unfold and then reacting to it in faithful ways.
Debbie
Debbie, no one but you can answer the question "what is my happiness worth". You have to live with yourself and your inner turmoil.
I can say that much of the time the older you get the stronger those feelings grow. I have no idea where you are on the Gender Identity scale.
I will say that it cost me my role in Church leadership, but not my faith in God. It cost me the love and trust of my wife and children. It cost me many of my clients, but not all, some were very supportive in my transition.
Also, it allowed me more peace within me. I am happier being a woman than I was ever being a "man" in the past.
Sarah L.
Quote from: debbiej on April 11, 2007, 02:46:49 PM
Something I don't quite understand in your comment is that "the surface Good Things don't compensate for it anymore". At this point its very hard for me to to see my family, my work, my friends, and my faith community as surface good things. They go to the very core of my being and perhaps are equal to my previously hidden Transgendered self.
Since beginning my transition, I often find myself saying to my wife,
"look, you know I love you more than anything in the... well... considering what I'm doing, I can't say that now, can I?"I have my fantasy job. I literally sat down one day and fantasized about what the perfect job would be for me. A few months later, it was handed to me.
My wife is the most precious, magical and uniquely beautiful creature I have ever met on this earth.
I have a wonderfully perfect home, with two wonderful kitties.
I have perfect health and fitness, almost disgustingly so since I never exercise and I'm 42 now.
And yet I was miserable beyond belief. Sure, those other things were great and I did and do appreciate them, but the GID started sucking the joy from even those things. If you're not YOU, you can't enjoy the blessings around you, you can't *touch* the world after awhile... it all starts to recede from your reach, everything starts going dark. You become this island inside your self, you can't touch what you love anymore, and they can't touch you.
In my experience, anyway ;)
QuoteOne more comment on your very thoughtful reply - I'm generally opposed to "rolling the dice" (I'm seeing that as making arbitrary decisions according to some outside influence and that may not be what you meant) but I'm not opposed to releasing my control over what happens in my life. Releasing my control and letting my life unfold and then reacting to it in faithful ways.
I see transition as a
Do Over, a rolling of the dice to see what happens
This Time. NOTHING in my transition has happened as I expected it to. The experience FEELS so totally different than what I thought it would be like... and *I* am so totally different than what I thought I'd be... that I can only say it feels like a "roll of the dice." I could choose to TRY AGAIN, but I couldn't choose where the dice would land. You're changing something so fundamental about yourself, that the world surrounding you WILL eventually respond to that and restructure itself around you in ways you just cannot predict from here.
And the TRULY scary thing... my biggest unexpected lesson.. is that you may find that once SHE is released at last, SHE may not want to hold on to some of the very things you find unbearable to lose right now.
Kate
Quotebut I'm not opposed to releasing my control over what happens in my life.
And yet, your entire life is being controlled by external forces..... just a thought ;)
I finally made the decision to take control of my life. I had to give everything up to do so. I have regained some of it, lost some of it, and in many other aspects gained more. I know that there are some in my family who have made this a life of misery for themselves over it. But I had to let go. Ultimately, my life is better. The family bonds that have been repaired are closer. My friends are real. My work has been more passionate.
If your family is more important to you than this, then quit doing this. Turn off your computer and do not return here. I'm serious. Block all aspects of this from your life. For you can't afford to be immersed in these thoughts. Turn back to your family and embrace them as Tom, or Dick, or whatever your male identity may be. I am not trying to be blunt, or rude, or anything like that. I'm just telling you that you need to quit focusing on these thoughts.
Cindi
QuoteAnd the TRULY scary thing... my biggest unexpected lesson.. is that you may find that once SHE is released at last, SHE may not want to hold on to some of the very things you find unbearable to lose right now.
Oh my!!!!!QuoteI love you more than anything
I used those exact same words to her yesterday!!!
Kate you are such a blessing. I am grateful for your sharing and at the same time - just because of where I am right now - totally terrified that you might be right- not only for yourself but for me too.
QuoteI have no idea where you are on the Gender Identity scale.
Sarah - I'll show my ignorance and ask, Is there a gender identity scale? And if so where do I go to find out where I stand?
Also thank you for your honesty in what it cost you personally. It must have been difficult at the time (and probably still is?) but, for you, the results must be very affirming.
I am so grateful for the folks here that are willing to share their lives with the rest of us to light our paths, wherever they may lead.
Debbie
My wife? My wife was wonderful...or so I thought until she showed what kind of a person she really is. We are in the middle of a divorce (just waiting for it to finalize). I now have a girlfriend who truly accepts me for who I am and that in itself is a truly wonderous thing.
My children? Both of my children are young (5 and 9 currently) and they have both come to accept me as Melissa without much problem.
My work? I also knew I couldn't continue working where I was, although I hoped that would be a possibility. After being asked to leave, 2 days later I was offered a job that paid nearly double the salary and has been a big proponent of my transition. Also I was able to get on medical insurance as a female, so they have no idea about my transitioning.
My friends? Well, I really only had 1 friend before transition. He is still my friend and does things with me from time to time (like before), but now I have many other friends as well.
My community of faith? Shortly into transition, I was asked not to come to the church I was attending anymore. I went to the service of another church breifly after going fulltime, but I am still meditating about what I truly believe now that I know what I know about the religion I was brought up in. If I chose to go to a christian church, that wouldn't be a problem since I pass and there are LGBT friendly churches.
One that you didn't mention is your home. I lost the house I was living in and had to end up moving out into an apartment complex. I ended up moving there in stealth, so that has been fun having that aspect of my life be completely female.
See, for the most part, the things I lost have eventually turned into other good things in my life and I am much happier with my life now since I don't have anymore pretending to do. For everything you lose, something of more value will be gained in it's place. For everything you give of yourself, you will have it given back to you in spades. You can find more information on this if you do a websearch for Karma and threefold law, but this is based on my own experiences.
Quotethen quit doing this. Turn off your computer and do not return here. I'm serious. Block all aspects of this from your life.
Cindi, Can I return your book? ;) . I've only read 95 pages? It' still like new except for the pages that were touched by my tears.
I hear what you are saying about not dwelling on these thoughts but they are there and I don't know that I'd be able to stop now. What's more I don't think my wife, God bless her, would let me. This is something I know I have to deal with.
Thanks for all the comments
Quote from: Kate on April 11, 2007, 03:22:49 PM
And the TRULY scary thing... my biggest unexpected lesson.. is that you may find that once SHE is released at last, SHE may not want to hold on to some of the very things you find unbearable to lose right now.
You are learning well my young padawan. :)
Deb:
As you've heard from the others, being transsexual is terminal. It *will* kill you in time. And there is no cure. There is only living with it. Giving in to the demands of your cross wired brain that you become outside what you are inside.
But in order to do that, you have to be willing to give *everything* up. Really EVERYTHING. If you are not suffering from this blessing/curse, run, don't walk to the nearest exit.
Nothing you have external to yourself will mean anything if you spend most of your waking hours in clinical depression. A wonderful family, nice house, good job, and everything else will have no meaning.
I have to say, I have been blessed by my transition. I really have lost little in comparison to some truly hurtful losses that some of the others here have suffered. But I didn't know that when I started. When I could no longer continue living the lie of my life, I was willing to give everything up. Because sooner or later, I'd get that whole suicide thing right and it wouldn't matter any more anyway.
People have told me that told me that transitioning is very courageous. Yeah it takes wherewithal, but it is no more courageous than running out of a burning building. Transition, and maybe lose everything, or die, and lose everything anyway.
If you aren't there, consider yourself so very lucky.
But! You knew there was a "but" in all this.
If you do have this terrible blessing, transitioning is the most wonderful thing in life! It is the blessing. Life takes on colors and aspects that you have never seen. Since I came out to myself and started down the path to where I am today, I have found out that after 55 years on this planet, I can find joy in life. Doors have opened for me that I never knew were there. I have a new found spirituality that replaced the cynicism in my life. I have found Goddess in a grain of sand, and the world is in my heart.
This is what awaits you.
And here you probably thought it was just about dressing up...
-Sandy
Quote from: Kassandra on April 11, 2007, 05:35:10 PM
Nothing you have external to yourself will mean anything if you spend most of your waking hours in clinical depression. A wonderful family, nice house, good job, and everything else will have no meaning.
Having been there, I can vouch for that. Life had no meaning for me but pain when I tried to avoid being my true self. I constantly thought about ending the misery thru suicide. Now, after coming out to my wife and children I still have them. I don't have my job, but then it didn't really feel right to me. It was more an exercise in male ego and for people whose values I couldn't stand. I'm retraining for a people centered avocation now and it feels good to move ahead with the life I always wanted, but was afraid to do. As for friends, I've made more since coming out.
Rhonda
Quote from: debbiej on April 11, 2007, 04:10:36 PM
This is something I know I have to deal with.
And that in itself is the single greatest decision you will make. It matters not which direction you ultimately take. But the fact that you have thought it through and made the best possible choice for yourself and your family means that you are taking control of your life. I commend you for it.
Cindi
What is happiness worth?
Despite everything you've mentioned on your post, what does your inner voice tell you, Debbie? I've always said that we can fool everyone around us, but we can never fool the voice of our conscience. Trust that voice, listen to it, for it is your essence/soul which speaks through it.
tink :icon_chick:
Quote from: Tink on April 12, 2007, 03:05:27 AM
I've always said that we can fool everyone around us, but we can never fool the voice of our conscience. Trust that voice, listen to it, for it is your essence/soul which speaks through it.
Tink, I've always been pretty good at listening to my inner voice. The result has been that I've made for myself a pretty meaningful life. Sure, there have been bumps along the way but I've been learning and every bump has actually made my life even more meaningful.
I've also learned that there are always choices. And one choice that is always available is the choice to stay put, to not change, to not look for another job, to not seek a divorce, to not abort a child, to not move, to not do anything.
This is by far the hardest choice I have ever had to make and I've already started down a hill and I'm testing the brakes. Its been vary hard to let go of the choice to
not do this.
QuoteAs you've heard from the others, being transsexual is terminal. It *will* kill you in time. And there is no cure. There is only living with it.
Sandy, Something is eventually going to kill me. I suspect it may be stress from my job or stress from either hiding or sharing my transgender. I've always held a that type A personalities (the ones who have stress caused heart attacks) are actually committing suicide when they insist on eating steaks instead of salads. Its a way to hasten the end of their stress by causing a heart attack. If I've ever been suicidal about my Transgendered self its manifested itself with my wishing for a heart attack to end it all. I'm not brave enough to try anything else. Yet your point is well taken. And in my present state of mind the stress from sharing this with the world is what might kill me.
QuoteFor everything you lose, something of more value will be gained in it's place. For everything you give of yourself, you will have it given back to you in spades.
Melissa, Yes - I believe that. Call it Karma or call it God or call it having a positive attitude and finding silver linings in every cloud. I'm curious though, how this works when you follow your own inner voice and it causes pain in the lives of those you love. Is it negative karma? Do you have to trust that they are able to find their own silver lining? I think I know what your answer will be but if you want to articulate it for me I'm sure I'd find it helpful.
Thank you everyone for your frank and thoughtful comments. Its a question that I've had ever since I came to Susan's Place but have been reluctant to ask. I'm glad I did.
Debbie
Debbie,
From my experience the answers everyone has given are right on the mark. I have a nice home, a bueatiful wife, a good job, great kids, etc and I am moving down the path of transition with the very real possibility of losing it all.
All my life I've tried to deny my true self, joined the military, acted macho, got married, had kids, I've tried to live up the artificial ideals of what being a real man is in order not to be the woman I am. Now I am trying to learn about what kind of woman I am.
I've fought the feelings of suicide and fear. In the end no matter how much I've tried to live in denial and tried to rationalize my situation, it didn't work. As I've gotton older the feelings have become stronger, overpowering. This is a similar experience I've read from many others as well as they get into their 50's and older.
If you can live your life feeling fulfilled as it is now, it would be best for your's and your families sake to do so. Moving forward exploring your Being as Debbie, the path gets steeper and harder to turnaround, harder to stop Debbie from exerting control.
This has been my experience as I've searched for answers to the same question you posed.
Hugs, Maya
Quote from: Maya on April 12, 2007, 08:16:06 AM
As I've gotton older the feelings have become stronger, overpowering. This is a similar experience I've read from many others as well as they get into their 50's and older.
Thank you Maya. This is what keeps me coming back to Susan's reading books, telling my wife, starting therapy. I've been dealing with these thoughts, like many others, since I was a very young child. Six months ago I made a conscious decision that I was going take this secret with me to the grave. Yet, here I am. Its no longer a secret with the folks at Susan's Place and more importantly - with the 6 people that I've told to set up a support group. From everything I've heard here at Susan's this is not going away and the feelings will only get stronger. But still I have to ask the question that many of you have already asked and found your answer.
Quote
If you can live your life feeling fulfilled as it is now, it would be best for your's and your families sake to do so. Moving forward exploring your Being as Debbie, the path gets steeper and harder to turnaround, harder to stop Debbie from exerting control.
This has been my experience as I've searched for answers to the same question you posed.
Now I have to express some more frustrations.
I love this place called Susan's. It has been an incredible help to me. But it can be very one sided towards the inevitability of transition. Its no ones fault, its just the character of the community here.
Let me explain:
I have to think that there are Transgendered people out there who have found other ways to cope with with this state of being. some other way besides transition. They may have found ways to suppress the thoughts. They may have found ways to feel fulfilled as a woman but not share it with their community. They may be living quiet lives and don't have a need to be a part of a community such as Susan's Place, or a support group.
I would be much more sure that I had all the information I needed to move on if I could talk to them and learn from them too. But they are not easy to find. Or maybe, as some here have suggested, they are nowhere to be found because the depression has been so overpowering that they have ended the pain by ending their life.
So here is my plea- All you lurkers out there who have found ways, besides transitioning and suicide, to cope with your transgendered self -
speak up!!!! WE need to hear your voice too.
I have to say this again, because I know that reliving the choices that many of you have already made in your journey can be very difficult...
Thank you so much for all the love, support, concern, and patience that you all have shown me over the last month. If I hadn't found this place so soon after I came out to my friend, perhaps I would have experienced this process very differently. Perhaps I would have experienced first hand the extreme depression that many of you talk about. Perhaps you have already saved my life.
Debbie
Quote from: debbiej on April 12, 2007, 07:14:34 AM
I've also learned that there are always choices. And one choice that is always available is the choice to stay put, to not change...
"I don't know where I'm going - all I know is if I stay here like this, I shall die here like this."That thought, scribbled throughout my journal, kicked me into facing this problem at last.
QuoteI'm curious though, how this works when you follow your own inner voice and it causes pain in the lives of those you love.
EXACTLY what I just cannot figure out. I live my life by adjusting my course according to how "right" things FEEL. Hard to explain, but you know what I mean. When you're "following your bliss," you just KNOW it. Roses are strewn at your feet. Doors open before you even knock. Miracles happen, and you find yourself thinking everyday, "I just cannot believe how lucky I am."
And when I fall OFF the path, everything starts failing. My computers at work crash. My car develops a problem. The washer breaks. People say mean things to me.
And I KNOW people will say I'm just looking for these things, but it's not true - it's repeatable, testable and obvious for me.
Transitioning has been THE "rightest" thing I've ever done. As long as I stay focused and don't allow doubts to creep in, my life is grand. Charmed. Blessed. But if I even BEGIN consider not doing this... let's not go there. I hate to even TYPE that in fact.
BUT. At the same time, I watch this destroying my wife. Every victory of mine, every joy opens an equally miserable wound in her soul, stabs her in the heart. That just CANNOT be right, and yet... it happens. And I just cannot explain WHY it would be so unfair for her, why she's being punished so cruelly through my joy.
And yet, at the same time, I have absolutely NO doubts that this is the right thing for me to do. The only hope I cling to is maybe IN THE END, looking back on all this with a broader scope, maybe then it'll make more sense.
Kate
Quote from: debbiej on April 12, 2007, 09:22:43 AM
So here is my plea- All you lurkers out there who have found ways, besides transitioning and suicide, to cope with your transgendered self - speak up!!!! WE need to hear your voice too.
Your asking a very hard question Debbie. Many of us fought this in our lives for years. Trying everything in "our" own power to hide it, deny it, fight it. Praying to God for it to be removed, then in my case finally telling God that if this was wrong, God would have to remove it from me, I couldn't.
I knew from around 5 or 6 years old that I wanted to be a girl, but back in the late 40's and early 50's there was no information about this, I did not know what it was. I tried suicide before I reached my teen years. I saw school counselors, therapist, shrinks, it did not work. I fought it with varying degrees of success for years at a time, but it always came back, each time stronger.
I don't know of any treatment for this, other than running as far as you can from it and hiding. Having lived it all my life, I would not wish it on my worst enemy, those inbetween years are hard.
Sarah L.
Actually the school counselors, therapists and shrinks were forced on me by the school and my parents.
Quote from: debbiej on April 12, 2007, 07:14:34 AM
I'm curious though, how this works when you follow your own inner voice and it causes pain in the lives of those you love. Is it negative karma? Do you have to trust that they are able to find their own silver lining? I think I know what your answer will be but if you want to articulate it for me I'm sure I'd find it helpful.
Ah, you need to look at it from a different perspective. What's worse, living a lie and in constant depression, bringing others around you down and being a fake (and possibly a lonely or irritable person) for the rest of your life or making some changes to yourself (which may or may not cause others some temporary stress) to be who you truly are so that you can shine in the world and be a better person. You are looking at this with a narrow short-term view, rather than a holistic long-term view. Is it better to just rip the bandaid off or slowly peal it off over the course of several hours?
Did you know GID gets progressively worse over time until you deal with it? Did you think it would stay the same or possibly go away? The problem is, as the brain matures, the gap between the gender you identify with and the sex your body is grows further and further apart. It was something I thought I could live with for the rest of my life when I was younger. I tried my hardest to live as my birth sex, but not only could I not pull it off so well, I was miserable in the process. Another thing is if you ask most transsexuals that have transitioned what they're number 1 regret was, almost every single one (perhaps not the ones who started in their teens) would tell you it was that they didn't transition sooner. It's just something to think about.
Quote from: Melissa on April 12, 2007, 10:52:29 AM
Another thing is if you ask most transsexuals that have transitioned what they're number 1 regret was, almost every single one (perhaps not the ones who started in their teens) would tell you it was that they didn't transition sooner. It's just something to think about.
Exactly.
And Debbie, ask yourself:
"How would I feel if I found out today that I could NEVER transition (medical reasons, etc.)?"Or, what if, God Forbid, you found out today you only had a month to live - and so you missed your chance to live as a woman? Now it will NEVER happen? How badly would you hate yourself then for not doing it when you could?
I *swear* the main reason many of us wait is simply because we think we have TIME. We think we can do it later, always tomorrow. We say I CAN'T but really mean NOT YET.
I can't, I won't, I shouldn't, I mustn't, I could, I might, I must, I am...Kate
Quote from: Kate on April 12, 2007, 09:44:29 AM
EXACTLY what I just cannot figure out. I live my life by adjusting my course according to how "right" things FEEL. Hard to explain, but you know what I mean. When you're "following your bliss," you just KNOW it. Roses are strewn at your feet. Doors open before you even knock. Miracles happen, and you find yourself thinking everyday, "I just cannot believe how lucky I am."
And when I fall OFF the path, everything starts failing. My computers at work crash. My car develops a problem. The washer breaks. People say mean things to me.
And I KNOW people will say I'm just looking for these things, but it's not true - it's repeatable, testable and obvious for me.
Transitioning has been THE "rightest" thing I've ever done. As long as I stay focused and don't allow doubts to creep in, my life is grand. Charmed. Blessed. But if I even BEGIN consider not doing this... let's not go there. I hate to even TYPE that in fact.
BUT. At the same time, I watch this destroying my wife. Every victory of mine, every joy opens an equally miserable wound in her soul, stabs her in the heart. That just CANNOT be right, and yet... it happens. And I just cannot explain WHY it would be so unfair for her, why she's being punished so cruelly through my joy.
And yet, at the same time, I have absolutely NO doubts that this is the right thing for me to do. The only hope I cling to is maybe IN THE END, looking back on all this with a broader scope, maybe then it'll make more sense.
Kate
Kate, your words speak so much truth! I too am following my bliss and my life as been illuminated by a light I never knew existed.
Perhaps your wife isn't following her bliss and that is why she is in pain. But as you know, her blissful path may lead her away from yours.
This happened in my life as well.
-Sandy
Deb:
You will not find anyone who has found a way to cope with transsexuality besides suppression, depression, suicide or actualization. Really those are your only options. You cannot hide from your thoughts. You cannot hide from who you are. You will have to deal with it sooner or later.
And yes, it gets worse over time.
I wish I had some good news, but I don't. Other than the miracle of transition makes life *real*.
-Sandy
Quote from: debbiej on April 12, 2007, 09:22:43 AM
I have to think that there are Transgendered people out there who have found other ways to cope with with this state of being. some other way besides transition. They may have found ways to suppress the thoughts. They may have found ways to feel fulfilled as a woman but not share it with their community. They may be living quiet lives and don't have a need to be a part of a community such as Susan's Place, or a support group.
I would be much more sure that I had all the information I needed to move on if I could talk to them and learn from them too. But they are not easy to find. Or maybe, as some here have suggested, they are nowhere to be found because the depression has been so overpowering that they have ended the pain by ending their life.
So here is my plea- All you lurkers out there who have found ways, besides transitioning and suicide, to cope with your transgendered self - speak up!!!! WE need to hear your voice too.
I have to say this again, because I know that reliving the choices that many of you have already made in your journey can be very difficult...
Thank you so much for all the love, support, concern, and patience that you all have shown me over the last month.
If I hadn't found this place so soon after I came out to my friend, perhaps I would have experienced this process very differently. Perhaps I would have experienced first hand the extreme depression that many of you talk about. Perhaps you have already saved my life.
Debbie
Hi Debbie,
I am also looking for a way out of this without transistioning. I know what you mean by a group mentality and it is something that I and my theripst also worries about. It is the extreme depression that brought many down to the conclusion that they need to transistion. Depression is a scary thing and I can understand why they draw that conclusion.
If I find another way I will be sure to tell everyone.
Alice
Quote from: debbiej on April 12, 2007, 09:22:43 AM
Thank you Maya. This is what keeps me coming back to Susan's reading books, telling my wife, starting therapy. I've been dealing with these thoughts, like many others, since I was a very young child. Six months ago I made a conscious decision that I was going take this secret with me to the grave. Yet, here I am. Its no longer a secret with the folks at Susan's Place and more importantly - with the 6 people that I've told to set up a support group. From everything I've heard here at Susan's this is not going away and the feelings will only get stronger. But still I have to ask the question that many of you have already asked and found your answer.
Wow Debbie this is a great thread. I decided at 18 I would take my secrets to the grave. Over the years I tried a number of times to talk to the medical community some were downright insensitive and others just said it was depression and gave me more worthless pills.
A couple of years ago I "checked out" in belonging to society. I decided I can solve everything alone and have done a lot of stupid things. Telling my wife was the best advice this site could give me.
I look forward to your future posts and threads. You seem to be very rational in your thought process.
Quote from: debbiej on April 12, 2007, 09:22:43 AM
I have to think that there are Transgendered people out there who have found other ways to cope with with this state of being. some other way besides transition. They may have found ways to suppress the thoughts. They may have found ways to feel fulfilled as a woman but not share it with their community.
I've looked for them for a decade. I couldn't find anyone who "beats" this aside from religious fanatics. And as others have said, those that DO manage it, those who get by with exploring a "femme side" now and then... well, it doesn't quite seem to be the same thing.
For many years, I was a member of an email list devoted to people who chose to not transition, for whatever reason. It was supposed to be about coping methods, ways to deal without doing anything permanent and life-changing. In the end, it was a very sad forum to be on. But it really opened my eyes, in time, to the road I was heading down... the misery... and where it would end. Dead, empty, having never really lived at all.
Not to be conceited, but darn it, I'm REALLY good at figuring things out. At exposing them for what they are. If I set my mind to it, I can get to the bottom of pretty much anything. So I figured I'd once and for all get to the bottom of GID. Expose it for the goofy psych problem I was sure it was. I read every web site, every theory, every post. I write out my own feelings in insane detail, looking for patterns, trying to trace things back to being dropped on my head as a baby or whatever. And I FULLY expected I'd "cure" this by exposing it for what it truly was.
It didn't work out that way. The more I looked, the more real it became. The deeper I went, the more feelings and TRUTHS I exposed about who I am. I exposed it alright... as being exactly what I feared it was.
Like Cindi says: this is a one-way road. DO NOT LOOK INTO THIS ANY FURTHER, if you want to have any chance of escape.
Kate
Just two more things and then I'm going to try to move on:
1. I did a google search on "Transgender cure" and I really didn't like what I found. Sure there were many sites that talked about there NOT being a cure (I've been to many sites like them) and they were all very affirming of who I think I am and reiterated much of what most of you have been telling me. But the one site that I found that did claim to help transgenders and transsexuals "get cured" just did not feel good to me at all. I'm pretty open to other peoples ideas but it felt creepy. That's the best word that pops into my head - creepy. Nothing blissful about following their recommendations Sandy.
2. I've been tooling around pretty good since I had my first session with my therapist on Tuesday. I have been feeling very rational and thoughtful and asked some very important questions here at Susan's and you all have challenged me and supported me. Its been great!! Hey, I thought, I can handle this!!! Then it hit me again. I could barely function this afternoon. It took a huge amount of energy to be present to my staff and to get any work done. I was helping our Buildings and Grounds man set up scaffolding and drill through some poured concrete and brickwork with a big ole hammer drill (Inset your best Tim Allen grunt here) and twice I had to go hide with my thoughts. Once I had to retreat back to my office just to be alone. The other time - Our B&G man had gone on to work on another project and I was left to sweep up the brick and morter dust that had settled on the floor. I had to stop sweeping and go sit down or I might have collapsed. There was nothing sexual about it. I just had to be alone with my thoughts. Thoughts of who I truly was.
So Kate, Cindi, Melissa, Sandy, Sarah, Maya, Tink et. al.
Your telling me this is what I'm going to have to deal with until I finally make a decision to transition? AND its going to get worse?
Oh my!!!!
Pray for me - please!!
Debbie
I wish I could give you the answer your were looking for Debbie, unfortunately I don't have an answer.
Sarah L.
Quote from: debbiej on April 12, 2007, 06:38:49 PM
Just two more things and then I'm going to try to move on:
1. I did a google search on "Transgender cure" and I really didn't like what I found. Sure there were many sites that talked about there NOT being a cure (I've been to many sites like them) and they were all very affirming of who I think I am and reiterated much of what most of you have been telling me. But the one site that I found that did claim to help transgenders and transsexuals "get cured" just did not feel good to me at all. I'm pretty open to other peoples ideas but it felt creepy. That's the best word that pops into my head - creepy. Nothing blissful about following their recommendations Sandy.
2. I've been tooling around pretty good since I had my first session with my therapist on Tuesday. I have been feeling very rational and thoughtful and asked some very important questions here at Susan's and you all have challenged me and supported me. Its been great!! Hey, I thought, I can handle this!!! Then it hit me again. I could barely function this afternoon. It took a huge amount of energy to be present to my staff and to get any work done. I was helping our Buildings and Grounds man set up scaffolding and drill through some poured concrete and brickwork with a big ole hammer drill (Inset your best Tim Allen grunt here) and twice I had to go hide with my thoughts. Once I had to retreat back to my office just to be alone. The other time - Our B&G man had gone on to work on another project and I was left to sweep up the brick and morter dust that had settled on the floor. I had to stop sweeping and go sit down or I might have collapsed. There was nothing sexual about it. I just had to be alone with my thoughts. Thoughts of who I truly was.
So Kate, Cindi, Melissa, Sandy, Sarah, Maya, Tink et. al.
Your telling me this is what I'm going to have to deal with until I finally make a decision to transition? AND its going to get worse?
Oh my!!!!
Pray for me - please!!
Debbie
Debbie,
I have been there many times during my work hours. There where days when I read something here and just had to do outside and cry. There have been days when I could not hold back and I cried on the phone to my boss. This has forced me to come out and work and now through all of this I am only working part time - using the rest as sick leave. I have so many times wanted to go back to my former life and forget all this stuff existed - but in the end I had to face my inner thoughts because they overwellmed me.
I am hoping for a way out with transistion. My identiy all my life has been as a guy (this may be different for you) but in the ened my need to cross dress has become to much and I ask my self every hour of my day for an easy exit without transistion. I can accept I can and like to corss dress. But untill I find a way out of my depression I am stuck hear looking for answers as well.
Alice
Quote from: debbiej on April 12, 2007, 06:38:49 PM
That's the best word that pops into my head - creepy. Nothing blissful about following their recommendations Sandy.
So Kate, Cindi, Melissa, Sandy, Sarah, Maya, Tink et. al.
Your telling me this is what I'm going to have to deal with until I finally make a decision to transition? AND its going to get worse?
Oh my!!!!
Pray for me - please!!
Debbie
Deb:
In our communications it has become apparent to me that you are a good judge of character. If that website was creepy, then it was. I can only imagine what their recommendations were. Given that, no, they are not on a blissful path.
Yes, hon, it will get worse. And really there is only one decision to make. Not if, but when. I think you already know this in your heart of hearts. But when you do, the magic of the miracle starts. It will be beautiful!
And Deb, you will always be in my prayers. I do so want you to be happy.
-Sandy
If you are right in this TS issue than I have one question.
Should we be encouraging new people to start down this oneway path?
I know i've come to far to turn around.
Jillieann
QuoteIf you are right in this TS issue than I have one question.
Should we be encouraging new people to start down this oneway path?
Good question Julliane.
As a 20-something I worked at a church camp and I'll never forget the training week where we were cautioned to share with the campers only what their young minds could easily cope with (funny now -considering how young and immature
my mind was at the time) The reasoning was - if we opened up their minds to concepts that were especially difficult to deal with, we would not be around to help them continue what may be a difficult journey after they left at the end of the week. We were not told to NOT share our faith, but we encouraged to be very careful with what we shared.
Of course this issue is different.
Of course we hope that folks that visit here are reasoning adults and that have other resources to draw on to make the important decisions on whether to start down
this journey. I also feel that, as long as I'm willing to ask questions here and share my struggles, no one is going to abandon me to go down this path alone. (At least the last time I checked, no one has checked the box in any of my posts to "ignore" me).
Also, perhaps in my naiveté, I'm still believing that I'll still be able to control this and even turn around go back if it becomes too painful. But it is a risk I'm aware of and I am facing this as a reasoning adult.
But still, I think, we need to be cautious and make sure folks know they need to depend on more than just one individual or even just Susan's Place for their information and their support.
Debbie
Quote from: debbiej on April 14, 2007, 08:30:42 AM
Also, perhaps in my naiveté, I'm still believing that I'll still be able to control this and even turn around go back if it becomes too painful. But it is a risk I'm aware of and I am facing this as a reasoning adult.
Something to be aware of is that the turning around to go back can be one of the more painful things.
Quote from: Jillieann on April 14, 2007, 12:02:46 AM
If you are right in this TS issue than I have one question.
Should we be encouraging new people to start down this oneway path?
I know i've come to far to turn around.
Jillieann
An knowing what you know, would you want someone to encourage you to suffer? Er not do anything about this condition?
*shrug*My point of view is rather gung ho I suppose, but
if you are... then
DO.
*shrug* dwelling in purgatory is not what this life is about.
Sand in the wind ;)
(=
This is a great discussion, and I have been interested to read it. But I have one question which I haven't seen anyone answer.
What is happiness? Really, I'm not just trying to split hairs here. But this is a question I've been working on.
Like Wendy, mine was a secret I fully planned on taking with me to the grave. Something happened, and it came out anyway. I had no plans or desire to be here, but here I am. During the times I can be a woman for extended periods I think I am discovering how it feels to be happy for the first time in my life.
But when I think of losing my family and career (I've never been very attached to material things) I wonder if there is something beyond happiness, something more valuable worth striving for. Is happiness fleeting, while there something else more worthy of our pursuit?
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
Quote from: Kristi on April 14, 2007, 08:57:04 AM
What is happiness? Really, I'm not just trying to split hairs here. But this is a question I've been working on.
But when I think of losing my family and career (I've never been very attached to material things) I wonder if there is something beyond happiness, something more valuable worth striving for. Is happiness fleeting, while there something else more worthy of our pursuit?
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
Kristi,
Of course I can only speak for myself, but for me, happiness is an indicator of a meaningful life. I like to believe that I'm making in difference and improving the lives of those around me. I support my wife in her ministry (I'm the principle income earner and she is part time), I am a good father to my children and they will be raised as tolerant, caring people, I have work that helps others deepen their walk with God, I'm an active member of my church which supports others in their journeys.
So perhaps my happiness is just a fleeting indicator of the deeper meaning that you are asking about. And for me its the meaningful life. It would be very difficult for me to give that up - even if its for a potentially MORE meaningful life.
I was reading another thread earlier this morning that asked "How has being TG changed your personality?" Except for one reply it was all positive (I think maybe that one negative reply was facetious) If accepting your TG and being a woman (finally!!) makes you happy and makes you a better person and gives greater meaning to your life... then that would be, as you say, "more worthy of our pursuit".
One more thing:
I was also reading the thread "Being transsexual is a sin?" and I think it also relates to your comment. If being happy, becoming a better person, and seeking more meaning in your life is the result of embracing your TG. How can that possibly be a sin?
Debbie
Quote from: Kristi on April 14, 2007, 08:57:04 AM
But when I think of losing my family and career (I've never been very attached to material things) I wonder if there is something beyond happiness, something more valuable worth striving for. Is happiness fleeting, while there something else more worthy of our pursuit?
It's surprising, but I'm not really transitioning to make myself happier, or pursuing happiness. In many ways, I'm almost more sad now than before - though in a deeper, more honest way - and about how things evolved, what I've lost, mostly in terms of my marriage and even my personality.
Transitioning, for me, is exchanging one set of problems for another. I'm not necessarily "happier" now that I'm doing it... not exactly. The thing is though, they're MY problems now, *appropriate* problems coming from striving to be who I am, rather than from denying it. The joys and sad moments are MINE now, direct and deeply felt, exposed and honest. Before, it was almost living like a parasite through someone else, experiencing HIS feelings, HIS problems.
Kate
Happiness means a lot and worth everything. I go back to the words Sandy wrote
Quote
Nothing you have external to yourself will mean anything if you spend most of your waking hours in clinical depression. A wonderful family, nice house, good job, and everything else will have no meaning.
Many of us would say we had good careers, Job and family ETC. They where happy with everything except GID was eating at there soul. In the end that feeling in side made us sad and depressed. I would of preferred that not happen to me but it did and I am left with the consequences and work my way out if depression. Unfortunalty I can not just walk away from this like I would like - it would just leave me where I was at the start - looking happy on the outside but on the inside I was just sad. It is what is on the inside that matters.
Alice
For me it seem like I am dwelling in purgatory no-mater which way I go.
Family or self? What kind of choice is that and how does that lead to happiness?
Sorry if I sound negative but just expressing what I think. TS stink much of the time and Iwould not wish it on my wost enemy.
:(
Jillieann
Quote from: Kristi on April 14, 2007, 08:57:04 AM
But when I think of losing my family and career (I've never been very attached to material things) I wonder if there is something beyond happiness, something more valuable worth striving for. Is happiness fleeting, while there something else more worthy of our pursuit?
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
I just sat here for 1 hour thinking about what has been written in this thread.
I can remember TG issues back to my earliest memories. At this point I wish the TG issues would just go away. I do not want to think about it but I have not found a way to stop thinking about it. At forty it was hard to contain but by fifty it is no longer manageable.
I do not consider two years of HRT as transitioning. A female waist cincher is for back support. Reducing muscle mass is simply dieting. For me this has nothing to do with happiness it is simply my subconscious refusing to listen to my conscious any longer.
I prefer my body changes and my depression seems to not be as bad. However I am not productive at this point in my life and all my energy is consumed in my conscious battling my subconscious.
I could give a page of irrational and self-destructive behaviors but you probably know them. By having chatted here some rationality is starting to come back to me. My current actions are not being done to make me happy but rather my lack of actions are destroying my life.
W
My own recipe for happiness:
Mix together self-love, love of others & the planet, an attitude of gratitude, hobbies & fun, closeness to nature, an appreciation of beauty, serenity, acceptance, enthusiasm and curiosity.
Let it simmer. Let it fill you up.
It is sweet & filling. It will sustain you the rest of your life if you let it.
Enjoy the little things. Dont take anything for granted. Try to be positive. Open your heart to love (yourself & everyone & everything else).
Good luck!
I agree with Melissa, I have only been registered here for a few days and I am just starting. I am 48 thought I could live OK with the body I was born with but no. Thoughts and feelings have grown considerably stronger these last two years. I can no longer deny them. I didn't even know what this was called or that it even had a name until two weeks ago. Thankfully there is a genda dysphoric clinic only 20 miles away from me to which I have made contacted.
I don't know where this will take me, my wife or family. I feel too, that it is a road to destruction, but maybe not, may be a road to the real me that has been hidden for to long. If I knew what I know now, two weeks later, I would have done this twenty, thirty years ago than live with what I see as a curse. I too would not wish this on my worst enemy.
I believe we cannot truly be happy until we are truly open and honest with who we are, I will try to hold onto that in what I see will be a tough, hard uphill struggle.
I am also a Christian (makes things even worse, lol) went to church today and the speaker said, Jesus meets us where we are. I don't know if I should mention that, don't want to spoil my new found friends. I went to church praying that something would be said to me to help me. It did. Blessing to you.
All the best to you all with hugs and kisses
Your new friend
Nigella
Nigella,
Sometimes my faith in Christ is the only thing that keeps me going. He accepts me for who i am and I really think He has a purpose fo me in all of this. But it is so hard at times; I don't know what people do that don't have faith. I wouldn't still be in this world if it wasn't for my faith.
Oh Fer you right:
QuoteMix together self-love, love of others & the planet, an attitude of gratitude
I do have an attitude of gratitude and it is a good way to live.
I am very thankful for my life, people and the wonders in this universe even when I am down.
:)
Jillieann
Quote from: Wendy on April 14, 2007, 11:11:57 PM
.
.
For me this has nothing to do with happiness it is simply my subconscious refusing to listen to my conscious any longer.
I prefer my body changes and my depression seems to not be as bad. However I am not productive at this point in my life and all my energy is consumed in my conscious battling my subconscious.
I could give a page of irrational and self-destructive behaviors but you probably know them. By having chatted here some rationality is starting to come back to me. My current actions are not being done to make me happy but rather my lack of actions are destroying my life.
W
Wendy
I can so relate to what you have said. My consious thought says I am male but the reality underneath is probably something else. I have been fighting my sub-consious all along and when I loose that battle I just want to give in and transistion as it seams like the easiest path sometimes.
Alice
hi Jullieann,
probably off topic and should be in spiritual section but thanks for your faith. I have struggles with mine and what some churches would say. Yes it is my faith that has stopped me from suicide many times. I know that God loves me and accepts me even if I don't accept myself.
hugs and kisses
Nigella
I keep coming back to, "This is not just about me". Whatever I decide to do has repercussions far beyond my personal happiness, my contentment, my bliss.
This is NOT just about me. I live in community with others. I have commitments to my family, my work, my community. I have entered into covenants with others.
If I have to break those covenants because of this stuff, I'm telling you, it will tear me apart. If I don't transition, some of you are telling me, it will tear me apart.
Its a lose lose situation.
Quote from: debbiej on April 15, 2007, 12:18:07 PM
If I have to break those covenants because of this stuff, I'm telling you, it will tear me apart. If I don't transition, some of you are telling me, it will tear me apart.
Its a lose lose situation.
Now you know why we cry.
Deb, there is no way that a change this profound, this basic, to the definition of who you are *cannot* hurt yourself or others somewhere along the line.
I really hope you can find peace and stability in all this. Keep looking for the answers and share them with us as we have with you.
-Sandy
debs,
for what its worth I am going through the same emotions and thoughts. I don't know where this will lead for me either. I agree with you, we have entered into covenants with our wives, children, family and work and I really love my wife and family.
I too can't see how it will be resolved at the moment. I long to tell my wife but all the advice on here to me was to wait for the counselling which starts in 8 weeks (god a life time). I think we are all on the same journey here and others may be further along the road than myself and perhaps you debs.
I have no easy answers for you debs, sorry, as I have none for myself. All I know is I can not live this lie any more and I am seeking professional help. What will follow can I cay God only knows.
Hugs and Kisses
Nigella
It was a year and a half ago that I awoke to this nightmarish situation in my own life. I enjoyed my female side the world seemed some ow brighter. My 5 senses seem to have come alive again. My feelings, I could feel love, joy, peace and also I learned loneliness, pain, and depression
Within a couple of months before counseling I told my wife then my children. But what did I tell them? I told them that I believed I was TG and even though I was physically born a male. I was I believe a female inside. As far as changing they could see that I had removed my beard,and all body hair except the top of my head. That I had thinned my eyebrows and began wearing jewelry and nail polish. The first question that was ask was why such a fixation on your looks? What does it matter? It's what inside that counts right? You have always been a very gentle caring man. What is driving you to have to change your appearance?
They are also afraid of how I will affect my grandchildren. My youngest son still is carrying lots of anger against me for the hurt I caused him and his mom. We are talking again now and that is good.
I also have made commitments first I accept Christ as my Lord and Savior and pledge to follow him. I made marriage covenant with my wife. I committed myself to my children, grandchildren to willingly die fro them if I needed too. I also made commitments to the church, work and the community. So what do I say now? That things have change so I am no longer obligated to these people that trust and depend on me?
How many lives should I hurt for my own happiness I ask?
Yes after more than a year of struggle, with counseling, I have realized that I am TS, I have a woman's mind/spirit in a mans body. So now what do I do? My family will not accept what I am. I am still looking for the way through all of this. I will let you know what I find. But right know all I can see is pain ahead of me. Either personal or universal.
Sorry that this is really a downer posting, but it is where I live right now.
:(
Jillieann
Quote from: debbiej on April 15, 2007, 12:18:07 PM
If I have to break those covenants because of this stuff, I'm telling you, it will tear me apart. If I don't transition, some of you are telling me, it will tear me apart.
Yep, unfortunately it does often come down to this. It's terrible. Probably the most painful inner struggle you'll ever go through. I think this is the one that sadly kills so many of us - some decide they can't bear making this choice.
I have an odd spiritual take on all this. People sometimes tell me, "God doesn't make mistakes," implying that I was born a man and should stay a man. But they don't know what I do: I'm NOT a man. They can't understand that, which is I can't blame them for. But think about it: God has handed you this... KNOWING, this TRUTH that you cannot prove, you cannot touch or taste or see or test for. YOU know it's real and true, but no one else does. And when you tell people about it, people sometimes ridicule you, and think you're nuts... because it just flies in the face of all physical evidence.
Sounds a bit like a test of faith, doesn't it?
I mean God made you this way, he MADE you a woman in a male body. YOU know it. But it's tempting to deny that truth for the sake of others, to give in to their disbelief and scorn. THEY, the critics, want you to be a man. But is it possible that God wants you to be a woman? That he's testing you to see if you'll believe HIS truth, not theirs? And not only believe it, but LIVE that truth, embody it?
Maybe, just maybe if you DID... things would take care of themselves. MAYBE, if that's your destiny, the demons and fears and worries will resolve themselves for the better, according to the power of fate... things unfolding as they were meant to after all.
It's just a thought ;)
Kate
Julieann
I am with you on what you say, your thoughts, feelings and despair. I keep looking up. I like your take on things Kate, but I believe God did not make me like this, my fallen human nature has. Jesus dies for that to which I am glad. He forgives and lays a road ahead of each of us to take hand in hand with his. He knows what we feel, he felt the despair and the rejection that often we have, although I have not come out yet so I have not experienced that yet and don't relish the thought of it.
Hugs and Kisses
Nigella
Interesting thought Kate.
I will let it rattle around in my head for awhile.
:(
Jillieann
Kate, once again, I really appreciate your words. Yes I've thought about how God may be using this to some greater purpose. How do I respond? I'm afraid of what that means too. I don't believe that I can do it here. In this conservative part of the country it would take a huge influx of contributions to counter the loss of income for the place where I work. We'd lose board members, we'd lose support from many of our churches. Those groups, outside of our denomination would stop coming and using our facilities for they are even more conservative than our churches. In fact I bet I'd lose several staff members too. All because I want to wear a skirt to the office to affirm the woman in me. lol :D Oh, by the way - someone mentioned earlier in this thread that I didn't mention the possibility of losing my home. Actually, if I lose my work over this I also lose my house since our housing is part of the salary package. The stakes are pretty high for us.
Jillieann and Nigella and everyone else- Thank you for your comments. I'd be in deep deep despair if I didn't have folks like you to listen to me and to have you share your stories with me. I am not alone.
Thanks for the hugs- It's just what I needed
Debbie
Thank you Debbiej for sharing and posting the question.
This has been helpful for me too.
Hugs,
Jillieann
Debs,
You are helping me too. I thought I was alone in this hell.
hugs and kisses
Nigella
Well I thought about Kate and he is my take.
I don't believe God makes mistakes. But He does give us challenges to make us stronger. Are person needs obstacles to grow. And I look at my TS that way. I have learn a few things in my 50 plus years of life and one is to never trust your feelings by them self. I will not be ruled by my feelings. So I am still looking for the right answer and I am sure as I trust in God that he will show me the way.
:)
Jillieann