the economy collapses, the dollar plummets, and estrogen becomes hard to come by. like say all of us trans girls can't afford hormones... i get worried about an impending economic collapse, a new great depression and well yeah that's about it.
has anyone else thought about this? fiat currency, imaginary money... and no access to hormones. we all (who haven't had an orchi or srs) turn back into masculine creatures.
am i just being paranoid? not trusting our government and its spending?
or maybe our economy collapses but we have this obamacare to take care of us?
i'm not trying to get into a political conversation about left vs. right because i'm libertarian and want no arguments about romney vs obama. i just get scared that maybe at some point i don't have access to hormones anymore. what would happen? shucks, i sound paranoid...
I'm FTM and I've thought about the types of scenarios that could lead to me not being able to get hormones...particularly after surgery it wouldn't be very good because I wouldn't make my own, either. Actually, recently Canada had a shortage of the injectable testosterone so there were a number of guys who went without.
I guess, worst case scenario, trans people wouldn't have access to hormones and we'd simply be at a higher risk for things like osteoporosis. It sucks, majorly, and so would the psychological effects of being hormoneless. It'd be a lot like being a woman who had a hysterectomy or had menopause (prior to that being treated with HRT), I guess, or a man who lost his testicles.
Move to Canada?
Quote from: oZma on November 02, 2012, 01:09:04 AM
the economy collapses, the dollar plummets, and estrogen becomes hard to come by. like say all of us trans girls can't afford hormones... i get worried about an impending economic collapse, a new great depression and well yeah that's about it.
has anyone else thought about this? fiat currency, imaginary money... and no access to hormones. we all (who haven't had an orchi or srs) turn back into masculine creatures.
am i just being paranoid? not trusting our government and its spending?
or maybe our economy collapses but we have this obamacare to take care of us?
i'm not trying to get into a political conversation about left vs. right because i'm libertarian and want no arguments about romney vs obama. i just get scared that maybe at some point i don't have access to hormones anymore. what would happen? shucks, i sound paranoid...
No self-respecting libertarian would depend on the government to take care of them.
If you had no access to HRT medications, you would do what your sisters did in the days before hormone therapy - you would live in the appropriate gender role to alleviate your dysphoria, and likely have your testicles removed.
I have similar fears oZma, and not just about being able to afford/have access to hormones & anti boy drugs. If the economy gets worse or a bad depression hits everything will be expensive/scarce. Food, fuel, you name it. I have been buying extra estrogen, Spiro & Fin on-line and sort of stocking up. Its hard to have a really large supply and keep within the expiration dates. Although I suspect I would be better off with some estrogen patches that are 6 months out of date than none at all. ???
The only other option is to stash away as much money as you can for a "rainy day" fund. I know its hard with all of life's regular expenses and our Trans related expenses on top of that, but as of late I try and save where ever I can.
Dani
The concerns of impending global fiat currency collapse are real for everyone, not just trans people.
Buy precious metals (physical, not derivative products or credit notes) like gold and silver as a hedge. Reduce your liabilities and stay out of debt. Study and practice good money management techniques, like budgeting so you can always live below your means so you have some disposable income.
I know not all of these are possible for everyone, but the final option is immigration, migrate to a country that is more stable (most of these were barely affected by the GFC) and has better living wage, like Norway, Switzerland and Iceland (which has the best gender equality statistics in the world by the way) if in Europe. Or Australia and New Zaeland, which are both far more decoupled from the upcoming US and EU dollar crises, they also have substantially better average living wages, good gender equality and institutionalized anti-discrimination laws for transgender people. Not to mention universal public health care system.
There are other countries too, check out Human Development Index, Gini and Gender Equality reports to see regarding quality of life. And try to pick a country that has at least 15% of GDP from natural resources in it's own economy. Also if you really want to get into it, check for banking regulations such as anti-merger laws and public investment oversight.
If the NHS was somehow dispensed with and I seriously couldn't afford estrogen I reckon obtaining estrogen would be the last of my worries. Keeping alive would be my first.
If you're that worried, start studying now how to obtain it from animals. :laugh: There would have to be an impending apocalypse before I started taking it that seriously.
What's the real shelf life of tablet form estrogen?
Agreed Tesla. There would be civil unrest in a time like that. Besides that, gold and silver may not be worth as much as people think. What purpose would shiny metal serve in a SHTF scenario? One item in a SHTF scenario of worth would be guns/food etc. Of course this is a seriously worst case situation I am speaking of.
Absolutely. Obtaining antibiotics would be the first on my list. A simple cut could kill you without them, even a UTI.
Quote from: Jamie D on November 02, 2012, 01:51:30 AM
No self-respecting libertarian would depend on the government to take care of them.
True.
Imagine the system collapses. It's like "The Road" or "Mad Max". That's the kind of scenario we need to be prepared for if we're serious about self-sufficiency.
What we need are skills. As far as hormones are concerned, we could get involved in DIY biology. For instance, oestrogens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrogen) are typically synthesised in a placenta. As stem cell research advances, one should eventually be able to grow one in a home lab, and extract one's estradiol and whatnot from that. Alternatively, one might have a look at the chemical structure, and work out how one could build it from scratch. If one doesn't feel up to it, one could trade services with somebody who is, the wetware hackers aren't going to magically disappear from one day to the next.
Dependency upon the pharmaceutical industry strikes me as just as unsustainable as dependency upon the state / global finance.
Even when everything will collapse
There will be lot of people with knowledge who will fill free space at market, so small home laboratories which will make everything not just illegal drugs and untaxed alcohol like today and garage surgeons who can do at least orchi
So maybe world will be more gray than today, but life goes on
Quote from: TessaM on November 02, 2012, 05:54:59 AM
I always wondered what I would do in a zombie appocalypse. Id probably have to break into a local pharmacy and stock up on hrt. It could make for a cool movie.
Yo, don't joke about zombies. That s*** there – that's real.
Quote from: oZma on November 02, 2012, 01:09:04 AM
the economy collapses, the dollar plummets, and estrogen becomes hard to come by. like say all of us trans girls can't afford hormones... i get worried about an impending economic collapse, a new great depression and well yeah that's about it.
has anyone else thought about this? fiat currency, imaginary money... and no access to hormones. we all (who haven't had an orchi or srs) turn back into masculine creatures.
am i just being paranoid? not trusting our government and its spending?
or maybe our economy collapses but we have this obamacare to take care of us?
i'm not trying to get into a political conversation about left vs. right because i'm libertarian and want no arguments about romney vs obama. i just get scared that maybe at some point i don't have access to hormones anymore. what would happen? shucks, i sound paranoid...
Chill ...
In the first place, the entire financial system is not about to collapse. Despite the best efforts of politicians (of both sides) and bankers to f*** it up the US economy is about to boom as cheap shale gas and oil lower energy prices, remove any dependence on Middle Eastern oil (so no more dumb-ass wars in muslim countries) and give the States a massive competitive advantage over both China and Europe. So don't worry, hon, there'll be plenty of money for hormones.
And if by some evil fluke the whole of society as we know it did collapse, frankly, getting HRT would be the very least of your problems, so I really wouldn't worry about it.
You're young, you're cute, you're going to be much finer than you know ...
Quote from: Tesla on November 02, 2012, 05:14:31 AM
If the NHS was somehow dispensed with and I seriously couldn't afford estrogen I reckon obtaining estrogen would be the last of my worries. Keeping alive would be my first.
If you're that worried, start studying now how to obtain it from animals. :laugh: There would have to be an impending apocalypse before I started taking it that seriously.
What's the real shelf life of tablet form estrogen?
The shelf life of medication in tablet form is
years. Gelcaps and liquids, not as much.
When I work in Africa, it is usually 12-18 hours per day 7 days a week and my dysphoria is usually easier to deal with. So it makes me wonder if GID has been historically easier to deal with for humans because most of human history, life has been so hard and basic survival itself was quite a challenge. So, I wonder if the GID would become a much smaller concern for us if everything went to crap and we struggled for clean water, food and other basic needs.
As funny side note, I'm in Mozambique right now and the house across the street is blaring some sort of Reggae Fusion music on some REALLY cheap speakers. These people are poorer than most in a first world country can imagine but they don't know how poor and miserable they are. They smile and go on living, just like anyone else in the world. The worst thing you could ever do to them is to show them how poor they are and how first world nations live.
I'm actually far more worried about a shift in attitudes toward Transgender than I am a financial collapse.
If people start listening to those who are saying that Transgender is immoral, is a choice for our own gratification, etc., and make us outlaws.
In my state we're debating whether gay marriage should be legal. If it passes, it will be by the thinnest of margins. A significant percentage of people seem to believe that legalizing gay marriage goes against God's law and allowing it would be immoral.
fiat currency, imaginary money
That's cute that you think that is something that might happen, instead of it being the reality all along.
Currency, money as we who love and hate it call it, is a fiction. It's worth nothing. It's just paper (or metal, and base metals at that). It's not backed by anything (and even when it was, that was a joke - don't believe me? Try eating gold and silver.)
The only thing that holds everything together, what has always held it together, is that we all agree to be part of this huge fiction. Our combined belief is the only thing that supports it. It's the only thing that ever has. It's a form of faith, but pretty much without god.
Look, all of this is way out of control, and no one -not Republicans or Democrats, not Commies or Anarchists, not American's or Europeans, or artists, or economists, or social studies majors - NO ONE, has even the faintest idea of how to get it under control. It's a Frankenstein Monster, we created it, and now it looks like it could eat us. Because there is a very real danger inherent in an total financial collapse, and that's a related industrial collapse. The money ain't no thing, but take away 3 things, petro products (gas, lubes, miracle drugs and farming related chemicals), transportation for food, and the ability to purify water in quantities that are needed - that's the end of the world as you know it. The upside (I guess) is that about 80% of you are dead inside of the first year, so you won't have to be depressed for very long.
See, (and this has been true for a lot longer than people even think) THERE IS NO MONEY. Nothing is real. Nothing physical. It's just ink on a page, and bits and bites in computers, and entries in logs. It's not real. There is no there there. The daily amounts of money being transacted on a global scale are astronomical, in real time no one knows how much they are, we only find out in retrospect. So no one is working for anything of tangible value. Nothing is real. It was ink, then magnetic ink, now just ones and zeros, swiriling around the wires and cells of the world, being posted here, there and everywhere. But its not real. None of it is.
It works, and will continue to work - like Peter Pan flys - by everyone believing. That's it, that's all.
And try to pick a country that has at least 15% of GDP from natural resources in it's own economy both the military power as well as the will to go and take what it needs, regardless of the morality of doing that. That's the basic rule of history. It's always been true. No reason to think it will ever change.
Norway, Switzerland and Iceland - ah no, because what you cite is just a bunch of laws/social junk/vague statistics. All that stuff can change overnight. And given an apocalypse it will. What you want is a place that grows enough food to feed itself. PERIOD. And since not freezing to death in a real winter has been (and would be again) a real luxury item, very, very expensive, move someplace tropical, or at least someplace with (and it's the reason that such palaces were the 'cradle of civilization' and all that, and Norway was not) a Mediterranean Climate and plenty of fresh water. If the water is running (as in rivers) that's a bonus, because that makes power.
Buy precious metals (physical, not derivative products or credit notes) like gold and silver as a hedge.
>>Now I don't know but I been told
it's hard to run with the weight of gold
Other hand I heard it said
it's just as hard with the weight of lead
Perhaps as a currency hedge, maybe, given a total collapse, then you have to ask of what value are they anyway? Aren't gold and silver like Roman/Middle Ages stuff? Are they really the most precious metals on earth now. (I'm guessing NO, platinum has more industrial uses) Are people really going to trade food and water for some hunk of metal? Could well be that the most valuable metal is lead, and the preferred method of storing it is in the highly popular 9mm form. Far more likely to trade not shooting people for food, then gold. Historically that's always been true also.
Move to Canada?
Sure, because if the Euro and the dollar go into free-fall it's going to be all about the loonies. Canada's money is in the huge, general, vague, bits and bites like all other industrial nations, as they go, so goes Canada.
If there was a general economic collapse as you are all speculating about - a true Industrial Collapse - then pretty much your gender worries will shrink to almost nothing, as basic survival is a 24/7 thing with no margin for error.
Not sure what the level of collaps oZma was referring too, but a extended recession/depression can cause inflation/hyper inflation that would cause many/most items to rise in cost. Drugs could easily double or triple, which would be at the minimum "problematic" for most of "us". Think of a generic Estradiol patch going from $3.25/$3.75 up to $10 per patch? That will hurt real fast!
As far as "The Book of Eli" type situation, then I guess all you need is "Divine Protection"! But most religions say I'm going to hell cause of my Trans issues! >:-) So I guess I will just have some fun before I leave! ;)
Best,
Dani
imho, it's best to not fantasize about the horrors of a zombie apocalyps (the range of possibilities make it a moving target (no pun intended) to prepare for)...it's ok to be prepared "in general" for "a given range of scenarios" (i.e., the most obvious needs during the most obvious crisis) but specifically HRT...some pharmacies might allow a 3-month stock, and one could stash away say, 10% of any given prescription with seriously affecting dosages...
But the reality is if the ZA happened, no one would know in advance how--or if--any supplies would be available, and for how long. Best to have a set up for a month or maybe 3, and during that time assess what is available.
I would probably get an orchi, then do my best to get some form of estrogen.
I doubt anything will ever get that bad though.
In a zombie apocalypse, I think I would welcome some elevated T levels. And hormones/transitioning would be as far disconnected from my mind as could be.
I would sneak into Canada
Quote from: tekla on November 02, 2012, 09:00:07 AM
If there was a general economic collapse as you are all speculating about - a true Industrial Collapse - then pretty much your gender worries will shrink to almost nothing, as basic survival is a 24/7 thing with no margin for error.
i vote for this options! lol... if it relieves my dysphoria! haha
no but in all seriousness... please refrain from zombie Apocalypse, that's just silly. i am mealy speaking of a "bigger" recession or depression. hyperinflation that sends the cost of estrogen, food, gas, living expenses into territories that put estrogen on the back burner. this is entirely possible and depends completely on the federal reserve and the black magic cloak and dagger behind closed door sorcery that creates inflation, prints money, and slowly steals money from us to cause more influence over us sheeple. like they're trying to force us into a totalitarian state, but yes that's getting a little extreme and off topic.
and moving to Canada? i know you think you're clever when you say this but Canada is not immune... the entire planet depends in one way or another on the US dollar so if the USD fails, we all fail really.
its just like tekla said, money is peter pan and we all believe he is flying... but slowly we all agree he isn't flying as high, the USD slowly becomes worth less and less money as we print more and more of it. but who controls the printing of money? not our government, the federal reserve.... no more federal that federal express
precious metals i think are the correct option to prevent the "fake money" we right now from loosing much of its value. but if we get to a mad max, yes these metals won't be worth as much. what you can provide to society will be your worth inherently. i am again speaking of hyperinflation.
AUDIT THE FED!! lol
I know moving to Canada is not a cure all. But, if the US economy does crash there will be a lot of other countries that will fare just fine. By looking at countries that have their owns sustainable resources, good import export laws, and their climate you can tell which ones will fair well. I believe Canada will be one of those places. This is based on economic research that I have conducted in the past. Not to mention, environmental trends that show Canada's ability to grow a wider variety of crops is increasing every year. The weather is changing, and it is creating some really good growing conditions in areas further north than previously reported.
Quote from: TessaM on November 02, 2012, 10:59:44 AM
If your truly female, your body will secrete the appropriate hormones, so dont you worry!
;D
Yes, adrenalin to run from the zombies.
I believe Canada will be one of those places.
I'm pretty sure that given a total industrial collapse Canada will be the first (or second, Mexico fits in here too) place with lots and lots of American boots on the ground, and not there in a good way like they were tourists or something.
Quote from: tekla on November 02, 2012, 11:11:20 AM
I believe Canada will be one of those places.
I'm pretty sure that given a total industrial collapse Canada will be the first (or second, Mexico fits in here too) place with lots and lots of American boots on the ground, and not there in a good way like they were tourists or something.
True, especially due to their proximity to the U.S.
The missing links of Manifest Destiny. Hell, we should have annexed Mexico after the First World War, things would be hugely better in both countries had we done that.
Big government will always exist, as long as there are humans there will be someone who wants more power. They will even talk under the guise of wanting small government but that's just to gain power to create their own big government with their rules. Best to just keep the more socially liberal ones in power for our own benefit as trans people.
As for an economic collapse. It's very unlikely. Government may be in debt but our private sector is rich as holy hell. I really don't bother myself worrying about such things. It's like worrying about a plane crash, if it happens, there isn't anything you can do about it anyways so why bother giving a damn?
If you've been on an anti-androgen for long enough, chances are your testicles won't recover very well, or at all. Especially if it was cyproterone, which they actually give temporarily to some criminals to castrate them.
Off oestrogen (assuming your HRT's effect were pretty much at their maximum when the catastrophe happened), most of your acquired female characteristics should stay, more or less. Your fat might slowly migrate to the belly, kind of (yet not so much, since your testicles shouldn't be producing much T anyway). Your face might turn more androgynous than it was. Your breasts might be altered a little, but they shouldn't disappear. Just ask FTMs.
And one last thing. Estradiol is one of the cheapest, easiest to find drugs. Even if the price went x3, it wouldn't be all that expensive.
Quote from: A on November 02, 2012, 02:44:57 PM
If you've been on an anti-androgen for long enough, chances are your testicles won't recover very well, or at all. Especially if it was cyproterone, which they actually give temporarily to some criminals to castrate them.
Off oestrogen (assuming your HRT's effect were pretty much at their maximum when the catastrophe happened), most of your acquired female characteristics should stay, more or less. Your fat might slowly migrate to the belly, kind of (yet not so much, since your testicles shouldn't be producing much T anyway). Your face might turn more androgynous than it was. Your breasts might be altered a little, but they shouldn't disappear. Just ask FTMs.
And one last thing. Estradiol is one of the cheapest, easiest to find drugs. Even if the price went x3, it wouldn't be all that expensive.
isn't T less common than E?
I heard all about a T shortage, but maybe that was just a tumblr crisis. I heard that about E too though, like two months ago...
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on November 02, 2012, 12:53:12 PM
Big government will always exist, as long as there are humans there will be someone who wants more power. They will even talk under the guise of wanting small government but that's just to gain power to create their own big government with their rules. Best to just keep the more socially liberal ones in power for our own benefit as trans people.
As for an economic collapse. It's very unlikely. Government may be in debt but our private sector is rich as holy hell. I really don't bother myself worrying about such things. It's like worrying about a plane crash, if it happens, there isn't anything you can do about it anyways so why bother giving a damn?
Hunger Games
Quote from: A on November 02, 2012, 02:44:57 PM
If you've been on an anti-androgen for long enough, chances are your testicles won't recover very well, or at all. Especially if it was cyproterone, which they actually give temporarily to some criminals to castrate them.
Off oestrogen (assuming your HRT's effect were pretty much at their maximum when the catastrophe happened), most of your acquired female characteristics should stay, more or less. Your fat might slowly migrate to the belly, kind of (yet not so much, since your testicles shouldn't be producing much T anyway). Your face might turn more androgynous than it was. Your breasts might be altered a little, but they shouldn't disappear. Just ask FTMs.
And one last thing. Estradiol is one of the cheapest, easiest to find drugs. Even if the price went x3, it wouldn't be all that expensive.
this was the kind of reply i was looking for. i've been HRT for only 2 years. i have boobie implants so i assume i won't really turn back into a boy that much
if when our economy collapses and totalitarianism takes over the world while everyone was watching honey boo boo and jersey shore. that creature from Jekyll island will run the world.
As long as there's money to be made, someone will be selling hormones.
I worry way more about a gradual slip into theocracy -- a society which is based on some particular set of religious views. (I live in a state which will be voting next week on a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage.)
Complete fiscal collapse seems unlikely to me (as do most kinds of zombies), but evolving into an exclusionary and intolerant society sometimes feels like a work-in-progress.
Lora
I share your concern about the rise of a dictatorship in many Western democracies, the gradual but consistent eroding of civil liberties for the sake of an illusion of security, the continual corruption and robbery that plagues public office around the world and the false promises of a return to former glory is a sign of a historical truth.
Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty. -Plato
No system of governance is permanent, I do believe fiscal collapse is very likely just from an economics point of view, however, I don't picture it as a doomsday scenario like some do. In history every single international fiat currency has collapsed, ever since the concept of fiat currency was first proposed, and this was at a time when it was all backed by precious metals to varying degrees. Banks and governments around the world are on the verge of a massive liquidity crisis, they will become insolvent very soon and there is nothing that can be done about it. Only QE-infinity (infinite quantitative easing, printing of money) as the FED's Bernanke has dubbed it which the ECB is following suit on and it won't be long before the FED and the ECB become insolvent.
Austerity, inflation, default. The natural cycle which has been played out several times already.
What is the likely outcome however? Most likely a move to a independent (like there is such a thing) gold-backed global reserve currency. China, Russia, Switzerland, and several other major players have doubled or tripled their gold supply in the last few years. All Commonwealth nations have constitutional right to confiscate gold from it's citizens at certain spot prices.
Probably be a bit turbulent for a few years, could be a major war as powers realign for better positions in the next stage of human history (which is always marked by the conflicts), could be civil unrest in less stable countries, but everyone will just start from scratch, like they always have. New fiat currency, new reserve, and new laws that will "promise" a better future.
I'm far more concerned about the political and civil fallout than any economic fallout. People will always manage to find a means for economic understanding, like they always have.
But governments are dangerous and unpredictable.
The truth about zombies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fv5I2rmtuU)
Quote from: Jamie D on November 03, 2012, 02:12:35 AM
The truth about zombies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fv5I2rmtuU)
I find it ironic that you would link that. Considering dem's back then, weren't they a bit closer to the uh repubs these days? *innocent face* Yep. Zombies, waking each sunday, to sing their chants and denounce the evils of others. How very "Los Illuminados" but yes. Zombies, nukes, crash of the dollar oh my. We will survive I think. Man's incessant need to keep going will see to that. Unless it's like a asteroid or Crossed. Then we would be screwed. That comic scared me.
Not only that, I deeply enjoy talking about the possible apocalypse. :3 Fun to think of what you would do. Bug out bag and all.
But governments are dangerous and unpredictable.
Not when compared to their citizens. There are always Fidels and Maos, Hitlers&Gorings, an Adams and a Washington in every generation, a Robespierre around every corner. And mostly - since we're all happy as clams - they never get it rolling. But humans are ever so discontent in the end. What's good enough today ain't near enough tomorrow. Higher, faster, stronger, MORE. Those insatiable desires run into finite realities sooner or later. And in that slight discontent there is kindling.
Sustainability. We ain't got it. Not even enough for another half century at the current rate and pace (and any slowing of that produces that discontent) of some pretty important things. Oil. Water. Arable land. And we allow no breaks to be put on our appetites, no checks on our desires. Reality soon come.
Ever larger groups are keeping ever expanding lists of 'undesirable tenants here on planet condominium.' Are you on some of them? Sure. Do you have a little list too? They never will be missed, no they never will be missed so we'll put them on the list.
Consider this: never have so many who know so little been able to find each other so easily. And the spread of sheer idiocy is rampant. Viral morons cover the landscape spouting a vast array of stupid. Asamov's worry that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge' morphs into OUR ignorance IS better than your knowledge - and we'll destroy your knowledge to prove it.
Tone down, tune down everything to the lowest common denominator, set the settings so that the most easily offended among us are never offended.
My students who would worry about nuclear war, or bio-terrorism attack, I'd tell them that sure, it's possible - but what's far more likely is that we're going to drown in our own garbage and gluttony long before that.
Quote from: Snowpaw on November 03, 2012, 02:24:52 AM
I find it ironic that you would link that. Considering dem's back then, weren't they a bit closer to the uh repubs these days? *innocent face* Yep. Zombies, waking each sunday, to sing their chants and denounce the evils of others. How very "Los Illuminados" but yes. Zombies, nukes, crash of the dollar oh my. We will survive I think. Man's incessant need to keep going will see to that. Unless it's like a asteroid or Crossed. Then we would be screwed. That comic scared me.
Not only that, I deeply enjoy talking about the possible apocalypse. :3 Fun to think of what you would do. Bug out bag and all.
That particular clip came from a film made in 1940 ... At the height of the neo-socialist New Dealers.
Pretty obvious who really tries to think, and who are just clowns trying to get into the circus.
Quote from: Jamie D on November 03, 2012, 05:33:37 AM
That particular clip came from a film made in 1940 ... At the height of the neo-socialist New Dealers.
So we pull a clip from a time when most people were socially conservative? Maybe something a bit more uh relevant today? ;) :O Maybe zombieland! That was a fun movie and because so many are reliant on fast food we would have to look at possible contamination.
Now the big question, is it immoral to kill your friend who is turning zombie on you?
Gogogogogogogo!
Quote from: oZma on November 02, 2012, 01:09:04 AM
the economy collapses, the dollar plummets, and estrogen becomes hard to come by. like say all of us trans girls can't afford hormones... i get worried about an impending economic collapse, a new great depression and well yeah that's about it.
The economy has already collapsed and although it may take years to dig out, it is unlikely that there will be another 2008. The world WAS actually on the brink of TOTAL economic collapse.
But I hear what you are saying. If you can afford it, you might consider stocking up but not that much as these drugs have a shelf life. Not only would you have a guaranteed supply but also an excellent hedge against inflation.
You could also buy options on the dollar against the Euro but that would be a bit severe. Your best guarantee would be a good health insurance package.
Quote from: aleah on November 03, 2012, 02:03:08 AM
But governments are dangerous and unpredictable.
Actually most stable governments---and that would include the great majority of governments including most developing nations-- are neither dangerous nor unpredictable. How many of us have freely traveled to, for instance, Thailand without giving it a second thought?
Quote from: Jamie D on November 03, 2012, 05:33:37 AM
That particular clip came from a film made in 1940 ... At the height of the neo-socialist New Dealers.
Quote from: tekla on November 03, 2012, 05:35:45 AM
Pretty obvious who really tries to think, and who are just clowns trying to get into the circus.
You all are funny!
Stuck In The Middle With You - Stealers Wheel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DohRa9lsx0Q#)
Nah, what's funny there Golden Bear is that in the name of being open, accepting and tolerant we're are forced to put up with people who are none of those things, and actively work to eliminate them. We are being forced to give them a seat at the table when we know that all they want to do is thrown the spaghetti on the floor and rub cake in their hair. And we're supposed to pretend that it's all OK.
Let us - just for a moment - consider the following...
That particular clip came from a film made in 1940 ... At the height of the neo-socialist New Dealers.
So, in a discussion about some potentially dangerous social trends from out of nowhere comes... the 1940s? Neo-socialism? What? The 1940s? Really? That's germane to the conversation how? Other than to name call - and be redundant at that . New Deal and neo-socialist are virtually interchangeable, with the first being a specific set of policies put into place after the rich guys (see how familiar this sounds) crashed the economy in a mad race for more money and left some other guys to clean up the mess and then spent 70 years hating on them for actually doing it.
Look (OK, aside from the historical inaccuracy, the 'height of the neo-socialist New Dealers' was the 1930s, by the 40's the whole 'war thing' was distracting everyone - and you know FDR and the neo-socialist New Dealers saved the United States of American and Capitalism at the same time and the Right has never forgiven them for that )...
Look ... here we are in 2012, looking to a not so distant future, and the reference we're given is to events that were some 70 years in the past so that a nice little 5 Minute Hate could be had.
Now, if we were there in the 1940s. Immersed in a horror far beyond anything that most of us can imagine. Millions of people were dying horrible deaths all over the world. Every able bodied young man had been pressed into military service. Women - both mothers and young women - had left home and hearth, put on overalls, picked up a blow-torch or a spot-welder, or rivet gun and were running the greatest industrial production line the world had ever seen. Every family was touched, and had lost someone. Almost every house had a blue star in the window, and every block - and I mean EVERY BLOCK right down to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave in Washington D.C. - had at least one house with a gold star in the window.
So, into this conversation we're having there in the 1940s about the current state of affairs and the future - well out pops Gramps who starts to praddle on about how Jefferson Davis didn't support Lee enough and lost the Civil War and how Grant was a war criminal and how Gettysburg was a bad strategic move...
Far from allowing Gramps to shape the conversation any further they would escort him back upstairs, give him his meds, put him to bed and 'lock the door this time, damn it.'
Time to realize that not only was the good Dr. Azamov right about people running around thinking that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge' but that needs to be stopped before it really changes into a nationwide movement where their ignorance actually becomes better than our knowledge because it's managed to seize the power.
That is a huge threat to all of us, one the internet has put into hyper-drive.
The lamestream corporate media play into their hands, especially CNN who think that presenting both sides of an issue means... for instance, if climate change is being discussed, they have to have a climate change denier to counter the real scientist. "Your ignorance is just as good as my knowledge," indeed!
QuoteSo, into this conversation we're having there in the 1940s about the current state of affairs and the future - well out pops Gramps who starts to praddle on about how Jefferson Davis didn't support Lee enough and lost the Civil War and how Grant was a war criminal and how Gettysburg was a bad strategic move...
Actually, it was not Gettysburg, it was Pickett's Charge...don't you read Faulkner?
I will just wait, til Canada and the UK retake the US. Long Live the Queen.
Quote from: Ms. OBrien on November 03, 2012, 11:28:38 PM
I will just wait, til Canada and the UK retake the US. Long Live the Queen.
I hope you are willing to wait...until Hell freezes over. China will take over before the Brits and Canucks do.
Quote from: UCBerkeleyPostop on November 03, 2012, 11:33:54 PM
I hope you are willing to wait...until Hell freezes over. China will take over before the Brits and Canucks do.
Ms. OBrien won't have to wait long
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQuaoJ-WfY27DzY1cqrMQIVYZ9iGneRvuEVOLiw7-boPQf56ANt)
Quote from: TessaM on November 04, 2012, 10:50:05 AM
Were gona get you 'mericans with our hockey sticks, maple syrup, and artery clogging poutine. Watch out!!!
I love real maple syrup! ;D
Quote from: UCBerkeleyPostop on November 03, 2012, 11:33:54 PM
I hope you are willing to wait...until Hell freezes over. China will take over before the Brits and Canucks do.
china taking over?
before or after the onset of nuclear winter? :angel:
good luck taking american. no one does real war quite like us. we will give you guys a brooklyn beating grrrrrrr..... :police:
Quote from: oZma on November 02, 2012, 01:09:04 AM
the economy collapses, the dollar plummets, and estrogen becomes hard to come by. like say all of us trans girls can't afford hormones... i get worried about an impending economic collapse, a new great depression and well yeah that's about it.
has anyone else thought about this? fiat currency, imaginary money... and no access to hormones. we all (who haven't had an orchi or srs) turn back into masculine creatures.
am i just being paranoid? not trusting our government and its spending?
or maybe our economy collapses but we have this obamacare to take care of us?
i'm not trying to get into a political conversation about left vs. right because i'm libertarian and want no arguments about romney vs obama. i just get scared that maybe at some point i don't have access to hormones anymore. what would happen? shucks, i sound paranoid...
this is whats happening in my area for the moment, and yes its FREAKING scary and paranoia, I cant explain how trapt I feel.
what would happent would be that people would try plan B and try for every posible way to get it done by other ways,
they would gather around in groups for suport or they would move away..