This is a difficult post for me to write, but I wanted to get it out and share. I know these kinds of things can be helpful to other people out there, so I will open my wounds to the public in hopes that this will aid someone else in some way.
Yesterday I came out to my Mother and sister. I have two sisters, so now all of my siblings are in the loop. I will start with the good. My sister was extremely supportive about it and didn't have any problems. While she didn't see it coming, she wasn't bothered by it at all. So far both of my sisters have shown a lot of support and compassion about my situation.
As for my mom, I had a detailed plan about how I went about it. I wrote a very in depth note that explained everything I wanted to say. While saying it in person would be a better method in some cases, my sister and I thought it would be better to give my mom time to absorb everything. So the plan was to have my sisters give my mom the note at a prearranged private destination and console her afterwards. In the meantime, I went out to dinner with a friend and tried to think of anything besides the terror of all that may come. I had a great dinner and went out to buy some alcohol to prepare for my mom's return home. I was a little tipsy and playing my guitar when my mom walked in my room. She was in tears and I've never seen her look so bad. We talked about things and I tried to answer her questions, but she kept telling me that she doesn't buy it. No matter what I said, she had an alternative theory. She had a hang up about my sexuality and kept asking me how I could say I guys if I've never slept with one. Then she said I have no idea what it's like to be a woman and can't know if I would really like being one. She then blamed my "twisted friends", my evil transgender therapist, and my echo chamber support group for influencing me. Without accepting everything I told her, I was just a confused depressed boy that was being manipulated by others. She told me she loved me and would always support me, but she couldn't accept this at all. To her, I'm just a crazy man that will never be a girl. Needless to say it was a rough night. Today we taked more, but it was the same. She doesn't believe me and thinks I'm just lost. She asked to try testosterone to see if that might make me like being a boy because I had low t prior to starting hrt. She then told me she wants me to distance myself from my friends and support groups and wants me to see a "straight male" therapist who would challenge the idea of me being transgender. In essence, all the support that I've developed which allowed me to feel better about myself needs to go. Instead, I should continue living as an unhappy man and get these crazy ideas out of my head. I told her living as a man would lead to my demise. She was in tears when I said that and I know she cares. The conversation ended with her telling me that people may laugh at me when I start everything. She didn't mean to hurt me, but she told me that I was manly and don't look feminine at all. At that point, I cried incredibly hard and went into a sadness I didn't know was possible. My mom was really upset that she hurt me that much and started to hug me. Even though she doesn't support it, she started to console me by saying the estrogen can work wonders and that I am gorgeous already. That's where we left it.
As of now, my mom doesn't like the idea of it and wants me to stop asap and distance myself from my female identity and all the support I have established that backs up my idenitty. She said she loves me and will support me no matter what, but she feels I'm making a terrible mistake and she wants to stop it from happening. So I have her love, but not her acceptance. She says that she is trying to understand, but it seems to me that she is really trying to talk me out of it than understand. I didn't expect her to be happy or approving, but it's very hard. It seems like she won't acknowledge any of my feelings and is looking to invalidate everything I have experienced. Whenever I explain to her something that occurred or the reasoning behind a particular action, she provides me alternative theories. Why can't she just accept that I know how I feel inside and know why I did something or acted a certain way? I'm the only one on the inside. Who is she to tell me that I don't know what I'm feeling? I love my mom and I understand that she will need time, but don't tell me I don't know myself or why I feel and have felt a certain way. It's very weird. On the one hand, I have her emotional support and love. On the other hand, she can't accept this and needs to prove to me that I'm not really transgender. Like I'm different from everyone else in the t community and am delusional for thinking this is who I am. So it's not that she is rejecting me, but she is refusing to believe anything that I tell her when it comes to this. It's very frustrating.
Anyway, forgive me for the long post, but I needed to vent. And to anyone out there who is coming out soon or looking for information on these things, I hope my post was helpful in some way. We all need luck with these things, but sometimes further knowledge can help us increase our chances for a successful outing.
I felt so bad reading this :( I am sorry things didn't go well :( I hope she comes around in time and I'm sure she will <3 she just needs some time. In the mean time take comfort in the fact you have supportive sisters <3
Well it sounds like she kinda came around in the end. My mom has never said anything even resembling support and makes fun of me all the time and basically calls me a ->-bleeped-<-. She says I look ridiculous with makeup on and it is pretty bad. So it could be worse. But that does stink and I know you wanted her support and how much this must hurt. Stay strong.
Learning, I'm so so sorry that this is what happened. I was really hoping when you told her she would take it better. *hugs tightly* I wish I knew what to do or say... But if you want, you can vent to me.
Oh
*Hug*
I wrote up a bit of advice, but I'm in no position to advise right now. So I offer hugs, and I promise I will pray for you - and your mother - for reconciliation and understanding.
Hang in there LtL, not all hope is lost.
She came around just a little bit when you started crying about her saying you were masculine looking and manly right?
That's a good sign. She at least wants you to be happy.
I think she'll fully come around in time.
I got the, "you'll never be a woman because you can't have a period" line from my mom. Then paranoia about discussing being trans on an insecure e-mail account. Things improved tremendously from there.
I hope your mom warms up like mine did LTL.
Your mom actually sounds a lot like my mom when I came out. I know your going to have a hard time seeing it from her point of view. But right now she is hurting and she will be hurting for sometime to come. She might go back and forth like my mom. One day accepting it the next day being I will never accept this it's all apart of the grieving process and it may take months before she will come around. But things will get better you just have to ride out the storm and give her time. And remember it took you years to come to grips with who you are you should give her time too. :)
Hugs to you dear, I'm sorry that you received such a negative reaction from your mom. It is painful even to read, because so many of us here have experienced the same identical reaction. It doesn't matter how old you are, your parents will invariably regard you as kind of a personal possession and most always love you dearly but not without conditions. So even though the umbilical was severed at birth, they always have an emotional segment that will remain attached until they finally come to the realization that you are your own person with your own life to live and they can't iive it for you. So after an extended period of emotional blackmail and manipulative adult tantrums she should eventually turn and accept that which she has absolutely no control over. Hang in there, keep your chin up and don't allow yourself to become angered at your mother or depressed, it will get better.
I just want to say that a negative reaction like this never is about you, it's about them. Their insecurities, their ego, their discomfort with having their worldview challenged, their hangups, etc. Don't take anything your mom does or says right now personally.
The first place a mother's mind usually goes is to blame themselves for your turning out this way, and often they don't want to accept the blame so they will project it off onto anything that's handy, or they will just try to deny your struggle is even real. In a weird way, this is coming from a loving place. It's crazy the horrors that can be born from twisting love with human failings. But part of why she is so resistant to any of this is she is afraid for you. She worries that your life will be harder if you pursue transition, that the world will become a dangerous place, that you will be cursed to struggle for success in a cruel world for the rest of your life and that it will be hard (impossible, even) for you to ever find love. All of these things are running through her mind, I'm sure, and she wants to protect you. She is just flailing, trying to find a way to keep you from having a hard life.
Also idk how much of her ego is wrapped up in you, but it is something that you sometimes encounter with family members. How I mean that is how does she feel your being trans reflects on herself? Is she afraid people will look at her and judge her a certain way because of what you are going through? This is something, personally, that was more of a dad issue than a mom issue for me, but I think my mom had a little bit of that going on, along with my siblings too, tbh.
I don't know, there is just so much that could be happening in her head right now. Just be aware that most/all of the terrible things people say initially are just outward, visible flashes of how they are coping with the rush of feelings that comes with a revelation like this.
It may be a while before things get better. Your loved ones are going to have to go through a sort of grieving process for the son/brother they thought they had, and that can be so rough because you will feel responsible for their sadness, and you'll want to say or do anything to soften it. Whatever impulses you have in that way, don't cave, be firm, but also be loving, supportive, and kind.
The best thing you can possibly do to help your loved ones get behind you is to simply have a successful transition. Prove all their worries false. Start to show how living authentically improves your life. Be happier, kinder, more loving, more fun to be with. Make friends, fall in love if that's something you want. Be glowing, be the very best version of yourself. You can't always be those things, not everyday, I know that all to well, but when your life gets better and you become a better person because of your transition, those things will go a long way toward helping your loved ones get on board. And you don't have to fake them (you shouldn't fake them, really) they really do just come with transition automatically when it is the right thing for you. They come with time though, don't expect amazing changes to your demeanor and outlook on life immediately, just like you shouldn't expect the physical changes to happen overnight.
Hang in there honey. It does get better.
Your mom loves you. Give her some time I'm sure she'll open her mind later on.
It sounds like your mom does care about you and wants to spare you the troubles but sadly that's not a easy thing to do. I agree with the others give her time and maybe she will come around
Hey Learning,
So I'm pretty sure we're about the same age, and my mom had a similar but less severe reaction so we're kind of similar. The fact that she says she still loves you and supports you is huge, and it's a place to start. For the last month+ I have been working to answer every possible alternative theory that my own mom has come up with and it's not easy but it's been slowly working. I've heard everything from being pushed into it, to low T, to obsessive compulsive disorder. The thing is though as long as she is willing to listen you can provide answers and show her that you are what you are. Also getting your mom to seek a therapist will be very helpful not just for you but for her. Just like I can't understand what it feels like for my mom to lose her "son" she can't understand what I feel. So the therapist gives her a place to vent her feelings but also serves to back up the stuff that I tell her.
Mainly if it's anything like my situation the best advice that I can give is this: Be confident, and firm about your decision, be knowledgeable, ask your mom to seek therapy, and when you talk with her give her some time afterwards to think about things.
P.S.: according to my therapist, and my GP low T will not cause dysphoria. Also a friend of mine who knows I'm trans was recently diagnosed with low T and does not identify as female.
*hugs*
Her continued love preserves the basis on which you can rebuild your relationship. That is something I would cling to. As your sisters are supportive, maybe it would be worthwhile discussing any details and concerns with them, so that they may act as an internal support network for you, and can help slowly but surely bring your mother around. Any explanation you give her at this point may be seen as suspect, but if your sisters do so in your absence, then it may make it more believable to her.
One thing that can help, but is maybe a bit too early, is to pick a few transition timeline videos and give her the links. In my case it has worked wonders for family and friends in realising that this is not some impossible feat, forever isolating one from the rest of humanity, but that transition is truly feasible. Let us not forget that many people still see the whole transgender community as one entity, and believe that drag is the fullest extent to which a "transition" can take place, at least visually.
If you wish to further assuage her fears, then there is always that additional point (preferably pointed out by your sisters): if it is the wrong decision, then you will notice during HRT. There have been cases in the past where people suddenly realised that this path is not for them. It is a perfectly legitimate and very important step to listen out for, so as not get caught in some strange way of thinking that you have to transition, even if it doesn't feel right. Again from my own experience, your loved ones will notice the changes in your behaviour, and are much more likely to accept your transition if they see your happiness. Always keep your options open though, listen to yourself, never let yourself be pressured to stop or continue; the only person who can decide that is you, and you alone.
Kia Ora L,
So now it's 'out' there...where are you going from here ? Don't wallow in the rejection take heart from the acceptance...
Metta Zenda :)
Thanks everyone. It's not too bad. I mean we are still talking and she has been more sensitive about everything after last night. She is upset that she hurt me and I know she is trying her best. I understand she needs time to adjust, so I just have to ride it out and calm her fears. I could have been disowned or completely rejected. Instead, she is trying her best to change the situation, but supports me and still loves me. I guess that's not the worst reaction to have received. Though, her comments on my appearance really hurt me because that is a sore point for me. But I don't think she understood the level of my dysphoria and how much that stung. Hopefully, it will improve with time.
I'm sure your luck will change with her. People just take time to take in everything
Just a quick update.
Things are really weird. Sometimes it feels like I am making progress, and then other times it's like talking to a wall. The former is usually the case. Yesterday, my mom began to make suggestions that I've been brainwashed and manipulated into thinking I'm trans. She doesn't buy that I am at all. she thinks other have talked me into it and I don't realize they are manipulating me. She has compared it to me being abducted by a cult. It's very frustrating because all my explanations and answers are disregarded in favour of a new theory she has on why I "think" I'm trans. She is a good person and she's trying to help, but I wish she would listen to what I had to say instead of trying to find a new loophole out of this. And the worst part of it all, is she doesn't believe I understand how I feel. She thinks I'm confused and don't really know my own thoughts. I get that this is hard for her to process, but I wish she could accept I know myself better than anyone else. Why would this exist for years on end? There is nothing I am confused about and no one but myself has talked myself into transitioning. It's very difficult. I hope it improves.
On the other front, my sister suggested that I'm not like most girls because I don't listen to music like Brittany Spears. First of all, not all girls listen to pop music. Second, there are plenty of females into Rock, prog, and jazz. My other sister is an example of this. She's very supportive, but she doesn't understand this at all. She wanted me to go shopping with her so I could experience what it's like to be a "girl" because I really don't know what it's like since I'm a "guy". I just wish people would listen to what I say so they could understand what being trans is and wish they would stop having false expectations for me to try and fit into.
End of Rant.
Your mom is in the denial phase, don't worry hon, she will get through it and begin to deal with your reality soon. Just avoid the urge to have a tantrum and remain on an even emotional keel in front of her and your sisters. Best place to have a good cry and talk with your Higher Power is in the shower where the rest can't hear you.
Go shopping with your sis, it will be a good bonding experience. She will try and tell you how it is to be a girl and you can show her what a girl you really are. Do it!
There is nothing wrong with a good rant every now and then. It can be very helpful to clear your heard. I understand the emotions you are going through. I am going through the same ones at the moment. It is okay to be worried and scared. Let's hope things get better.
-hugs-
give your sisters time. they are just getting to know the real you
I just don't know what to do anymore. My mom wants me to stop hormones asap. She wants me to stop seeing my therapist and start seeing a "straight male therapist" to talk me into sense, stop seeing my friends, stop posting on support sites, stop going to support groups, etc. Essentially, she wants me to isolate myself from a support structure so I am all alone and don't have assistance with going through this. I miss seeing my mom and being able to hug her. Now I can't even tell her I love her without getting an anti trans rant. I'm sitting here wishing just losing the will to live. My mom means the world to me and I've destroyed her. I wouldn't do this if I really had the choice. But I can't go on like this. Then again, I don't know if I can go on with transitioning either if everyone is going to hate and reject me. I love my family so much and I'm killing them. If I wasn't such a wimp, I would just end it all and let the pain just die. I just want to be happy, but I want my family in my life. I love them. I don't want to die, but I don't really want to live either. I'm at this limbo and don't know what to do. I miss my relationship with my mom and family and want it back. Now I'm just a freak that is causing everyone pain and sadness. I really hate mysef.
Please, do not hate yourself. Your a warm, caring and kind hearted person. My support group is here, and for now, that is enough. We will always be here for you. In time, your regular family will be there for you. It's an adjustment, almost as big for them as it is for us. But they love you and would miss you so much. Hang in there..
I wish I knew what to say. My heart is with you, as yours has been with others.
Jennifer
Quote from: JLT1 on June 25, 2013, 08:12:01 PM
Please, do not hate yourself. Your a warm, caring and kind hearted person. My support group is here, and for now, that is enough. We will always be here for you. In time, your regular family will be there for you. It's an adjustment, almost as big for them as it is for us. But they love you and would miss you so much. Hang in there..
I wish I knew what to say. My heart is with you, as yours has been with others.
Jennifer
thank you I appreciate your kind words. But I'm very lost right now. It's been an ongoing disaster. I just don't realy know anymore. but I'll be okay. tonight I will relax with some good white wine and just try to forget this whole day (and week for that matter) existed.
Well you could always lie to her and say you stopped hormones and just keep taking them and tell her your not seeing a therapist anymore your just going to the library
It is devastating when parents react this way. The hardest thing is that to deal with it you must, in the face of a torrent of terrible pain being shot at your weakest places, be strong, firm, and unwavering. If she ever feels like stopping is an option for you, you lose.
You can't let her derail you, cause once you go off the tracks... you don't come to rest in the land of rainbows and unicorns, I'll just say that. She doesn't know she is trying to send you to the darkest, most horrible place that exists in life, but she is. Let me tell you though, I have been down in there, you don't want anything to do with it. Don't let anybody send you there.
You have to be so strong right now, and so patient, and I don't know how to tell you to find that within yourself, but you must. I know how hard it is, cause I basically had to grieve the loss of every one of my family members (most have now come around somewhat, after being AWFUL for a very long time) but you need to prepare yourself for the possibility of having to do that.
It's just, if they never stop being a reckoning force of negativity and harm, you just have to distance yourself from them. You have to point yourself toward joy if you ever want to feel it, and that always means removing yourself from sucking, negative environs. Not that you should ever disown or hate anybody that you love, just get some distance from anybody that wants to hold your head under water for fear you might breath, cause like, they read a book and they think it told them breathing was, like, the most horrible thing in the world.
One thing that helps is talking about it and screaming about it if nec. Make sure you do that whenever you feel like it. That is why these forums exist.
You seem like such a sweet girl. Don't deprive the world of yourself, whatever you do :).
I know what you are saying, but everyone in my family is telling me that I'm in the wrong and being hurtful. I feel like I can't win no matter what I do. And as much as I want to live in the land of rainbows and unicorns, I don't believe it will exist with my family rejecting me. I'm not being disowned, but they are making it tough. I'm not seeing it getting better. I won't do anything irrational by ending it all, but I really feel like doing so even though it's wrong. I shouldn't have to drink here all night to escape from pain an d tears.
I know that feeling all too well, but I just want you to realize you do not need a supportive family to have an amazing life. Believe me.
Forgive me, I am a pretty drunk at this point. My mom was screaming at me about how I am a boy. Handsome boy. I will never be a gril and am delusional for feeling this way. she was in tears and crying about losing her son. She wants me to be a boy. She said my therapist, friends, and this forum need to go .... themselves. Everday she is getting worse. And my sister isn't as supportive as she once was. I don't even know if I can live here longer. She is telling me she refuses to see the changes. So I know may have to desperatly find a place. I doubted she would kick me out, but she may be int he mood to teach me a lesson. Yay for homeless shelters. I don't know how it will turn out. And I just got two rejection letters tonight from job applications. When it rains it pours, huh.
I'm really sorry. I hope things get better for you soon. Please stay strong.
Well everything Jen and kyh said. Plus, if your mom knew what would happen and how you would feel if you stopped, she wouldn't have asked. My mom tried to pay me stop lol well i really needed money for something that any other time I would have snapped up but I declined. It said a lot about how much this means. And we were fighting until recently for awhile. But now she started buying me the Olay lavender bodywash we shared again, she bought me a purple loofah cause i needed a new one, she says I love you back when I say I love you, she lent me money the other day until I get paid. So all in all it's getting better. I think your mom's reaction isn't abnormal if she had no idea which a lot of time parents don't. I think that can hurt them because they feel how could I not know. But she just needs time to digest it.
But like kyh said you have to be your own person and you deserve that. And like Jen said you need to keep moving forward regardless. I look at this way: how would you feel if you stopped? Not just that: how would you feel 10, 15 years from now. I know when I think of that it stops any thought of this is wrong or detransition in its tracks. Because even though it's hard when I think of my life in five years from now on HRT it seems beautiful, dreamy, alive, full of color. When I think of it with no HRT and no SRS (though I can prolly live without SRS just don't want to) I see nothing. It's grey, dead, lifeless. I feel nothing. Just what I felt before. I would hate to see you have to reach the stage that I and prolly many other 30 year old transitioners in our day age feel: death. And in five years you'll be 30. Turn 30 as a woman. I wish I did and I could've but I came this close to transitiioning and didn't. I was even a member of Susan's I think. Dang it.
You just have to stick it out. It will get better. Everyone is here for you. Maybe if your mom sees how normal trans women are she will feel better.
Post Script: Oh gawd that's horrible. Maybe you should take a step back from your family for now. This is what I did. I went as far as living with my BF for a week with barely telling my mom where I was. It seems to have worked. I also told how unwanted I felt. And it's not like she saw me as this super femme boy just a pretty femme boy who really likes March Madness and watches it with a passion.
I think if you gain some separation and let her digest the news without you two talking it would be better. She has to know she can't control you and that this has nothing to do with Susan's and the trans women who come here, or your therapist, or support groups, that we are a manifestation of you being trans we are not the cause of your trans-ness and if you no longer came here you would still be trans. You can no more stop being trans then you can force the sun to rise in the west and set in the north. It just it.
My mom isn't opne minded about other succesful trans people. To her they are the devil and she blames them for "brainwashing me", so that's a no go. I would distance myself, but I can't. I live at home and don't have the money to move out. No matter how hard I try, I can't get a job to help finance everything. I'm stuck in perpetual unemployment and it sucks. Another two rejection letters tonight. SO I kind of have to live with them and take the trashing. And apparently I'm the bad person for causing all the pain. Yay! Isn't life fun.
I hope my mom comes around like your's Joanna, but she made it clear that she won't. I guess time will tell. I tried hugging her on the couch just now, but she isn't really interested in having me around.
True strength is hard to come by. I am no expert at finding it, but I know that giving up is not the way to go. I know what it is like to be stuck in a situation that sucks. I understand where you are coming from. I am right there now myself. I do know that finding peace with yourself is important. That is where my strength has come from lately. I have started to come to terms with things. My situation won't let me transition at all, but I can at least be comfortable knowing that I know what my gender is regardless of it I can't show it on the outside. Drinking does not solve problems. I have an alcoholic for a father. I know the ups and downs that it brings. Try not to let the alcohol be the only thing that keeps you going.
How as your relationship before? And by distance I mean just not talking to them and trying to avoid them. I feel ya in the chronic unemployment tip as I am in a similar place. Sucks to be in Gen Y (or X) right? You just have to give her time. But during that time if she doesn't want to be around you, oblige her. She has to miss you. She has to realize this is real and that it is no one's fault. She has to realize this is who you are and it will never change. It will take time. But it shouldn't take forever. I know some people say well give them as much time as it took you to accept it but that is unfair because they don't have to be trans, just be decent. It isn't much to ask of someone to be decent. And just because you live with them doesn't mean they can trash you. Leave the room when that happens. Don't let them because this could wear on you.
I am curious, what are your plans? You are not considering stopping HRT are you? I feel weird asking but if you are you should maybe talk about it. I would hate to just see you vanish from susan's one day. It happens a lot. You'll see a member having problems with the fam and then poof! they're gone.
I've found it sometimes good to confront and stick up for one's self. But I've found that more often than not it has worked in my favor to recognize the loss that others have felt in my transition and try and support them in their own transition after I came out to them. In my case I started looking for opportunities to connect with my siblings and parents as their sister and daughter. I looked for any opportunity to spend time with my mom as her daughter (helping clean up after meals, cook, grocery shopping etc - whatever my mom was doing at the time). I found one on one time with her and tried to be vulnerable with her (and the rest of my family).
I know it sounds counter intuitive, especially since the default response is to fight back. I did that too and made people cry - but it didn't get me very far.
I didn't ask to be transgender, I didn't even want to transition. What I wanted was just to always be a girl - but over years I came to acceptance of myself. So I understood when my mom freaked out when I came out to her - she didn't want me to be transgender nor transition either. I needed to show her the same compassion I showed myself. Being trans isn't easy for us, nor the people around us. Based on what you've said though I still have a lot of hope for your mom. I know of people who were in worse situations who over time found support and love in their family. I think you can too. *hugs*
Quote from: Bookworm on June 25, 2013, 10:56:50 PM
True strength is hard to come by. I am no expert at finding it, but I know that giving up is not the way to go. I know what it is like to be stuck in a situation that sucks. I understand where you are coming from. I am right there now myself. I do know that finding peace with yourself is important. That is where my strength has come from lately. I have started to come to terms with things. My situation won't let me transition at all, but I can at least be comfortable knowing that I know what my gender is regardless of it I can't show it on the outside. Drinking does not solve problems. I have an alcoholic for a father. I know the ups and downs that it brings. Try not to let the alcohol be the only thing that keeps you going.
i know alcohol is know solution. But it will do for tonight. I'm in a really bad spot. And if it will prevent me from hurting myself and make me feel better at the moment, so be it. I'm not a drinker, so don't worry.
Quote from: Adabelle on June 25, 2013, 11:04:15 PM
I've found it sometimes good to confront and stick up for one's self. But I've found that more often than not it has worked in my favor to recognize the loss that others have felt in my transition and try and support them in their own transition after I came out to them. In my case I started looking for opportunities to connect with my siblings and parents as their sister and daughter. I looked for any opportunity to spend time with my mom as her daughter (helping clean up after meals, cook, grocery shopping etc - whatever my mom was doing at the time). I found one on one time with her and tried to be vulnerable with her (and the rest of my family).
I know it sounds counter intuitive, especially since the default response is to fight back. I did that too and made people cry - but it didn't get me very far.
I didn't ask to be transgender, I didn't even want to transition. What I wanted was just to always be a girl - but over years I came to acceptance of myself. So I understood when my mom freaked out when I came out to her - she didn't want me to be transgender nor transition either. I needed to show her the same compassion I showed myself. Being trans isn't easy for us, nor the people around us. Based on what you've said though I still have a lot of hope for your mom. I know of people who were in worse situations who over time found support and love in their family. I think you can too. *hugs*
I know what you mean. I try to be understanding and compassionate. But she isn' in the same place. I feel like I'm being emptionally bullied. No matter what I do, I'm wrong and evil for what I've done. It's just too much. There is no understanding on their end. To them I'm a liar, a manipulator, who has been brainwashed into a cult. And now I'm the source of pain for my family and it's my fault in their eyes.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on June 25, 2013, 10:58:40 PM
How as your relationship before? And by distance I mean just not talking to them and trying to avoid them. I feel ya in the chronic unemployment tip as I am in a similar place. Sucks to be in Gen Y (or X) right? You just have to give her time. But during that time if she doesn't want to be around you, oblige her. She has to miss you. She has to realize this is real and that it is no one's fault. She has to realize this is who you are and it will never change. It will take time. But it shouldn't take forever. I know some people say well give them as much time as it took you to accept it but that is unfair because they don't have to be trans, just be decent. It isn't much to ask of someone to be decent. And just because you live with them doesn't mean they can trash you. Leave the room when that happens. Don't let them because this could wear on you.
I am curious, what are your plans? You are not considering stopping HRT are you? I feel weird asking but if you are you should maybe talk about it. I would hate to just see you vanish from susan's one day. It happens a lot. You'll see a member having problems with the fam and then poof! they're gone.
We are very close. She's everything to me. That's what makes it hard. I love my mom so much and she loves me. We are so close, so it makes it complicated. I have no plans to stop. This needs to be done. But my mom is making it very difficult for me. She is trying to stop me and making every really hard. She's guilting myself into hating what I'm doing to the family. but I'm not quitting, though I do feel like jumping off a bridge,lol
It's good to have empathy and understand the feelings she must be experiencing, but you also need to take care of your own emotional well-being. Don't let her bully you. After you return to sober land, start working on a plan for how best to handle things not getting better, in case they don't. Hang in there...
As long as your are careful to not fall into the habit drinking is fine. I dont want to see somebody go down that road. I give you my best wishes.
-hugs-
My family was not and still isn't very supportive, my mom would love to interject at any given odd opportunity that:
"The queers are the downfall of America"
I have been disowned a few times over the past few years but then awhile later they'll randomly make contact
Though they are still not supportive, they have become a bit more pleasantly conversant and don't make derogatory remarks quite as often as before
I'm not sure what their motivation is but I just roll with it and go about my life
Not many people would choose to go through the emotional struggle you are going through with your mother. I don't believe you would. This is just one way many of us know we are transgender and it is not a choice. No one could make us go through this. No one could manipulate a non transgender person to go through this because it strikes at the very core of our being. It took me 53 years to open my eyes to the fact that I wasn't really a male but really a female. I didn't face your issues with my parents because they had past away. But I have grown children who only knew my male side and now have to accept in the best way they can that I am a female. They live on the other side of the country from where I do so this is basically an inner emotional struggle, but I do have a ten year old son who lives with me.
Being transgender is a struggle which doesn't really go away, and neither does the emotional struggle with our family. Finding the inner strength to live our lives for whom we really are can be very difficult. Your inability to accept your mother's demands that you are male and the fact that it is tearing you a part is a message to you that being a woman if an essential part of your inner being.
You are not choosing to hurt your mother, nor is she choosing to hurt you. She just sees you as her little boy, and is not willing yet to give that up. If being transgender was a choice, you probably would not give up, being her little boy. But emotionally you have come to realize that you are really a woman and have taken steps seeking out council to be that woman and may be finding that emotions are over coming your reasoning.
No one can tell you what to do, but make your decisions one that are emotionally healthy for you. If you could have lived the life your mother wants you to live, you would have. There are many ways for a male to rebel against his parents, becoming a female, in mind, is the very last on the list, and the probability of becoming a female as an act of rebellion is .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 or less percent approaching a nanobyte of a percent probability.
Let yourself be who you really are. Life has taught me that in the long run most people when push comes to shove make that decision for themselves or find that many of the people they thought they could depend upon make that decision and they could careless about how it affects you. We can try to understand others and succeed or most of the time fail, we can accept others for whom they are. We can love others and not like them. We can like them but not love them. But one thing we can never do without destroying ourselves and them is to try and control who others are. Parental control only lasts legally for 18 years. Before that control is a constant emotional struggle.
After children are 18, we parents hope they will live good healthy lives, and stay out of jail, love life and be happy, and be able to support themselves as long as they live. If my children appreciate me or like me or not its not an issue for me, if they have achieved these things then as a parent I have succeeded.
The emotional struggle with your mother is a part of life as a transgender woman you will have to struggle through. You will find your true self if, you are true to who you really are and do not make a choice to make the other person happy. You must be happy with your choice. If you do what your mother wants to make her happy and it brings great emotional disasters into your life will only cause greater pain and unhappiness to your mother.
She may never quite accept you as a woman, but if she sees that being a woman brings happiness and joy into your life, she will be happy because you are. What ever you do, do the thing that brings, peace and joy to you, and this peace and joy will lighten up the lives of others.
I'm so sorry you had to go through all that. It was painful just reading what you wrote. I shudder to think about how much pain you must be in right now. I, too, am very close with my mother, and would absolutely gutted if she reacted that way. I wish there were some advice I could give you, but I really don't have any. My mother was more concerned than upset when I came out to her. She knew I wasn't the sort to come to this conclusion lightly, and she has said before that "being gay [or trans] couldn't be a choice, as given how stigmatized LGBT people are, there's no way anyone would willingly subject themselves to that if they weren't innately that way." Granted, she had suspected something was up for years, but hadn't said anything, so I guess coming out didn't really disrupt her concept of me.
I hope things get better. Stay strong.
*hugs*
It's going to be hard to transition in that kind of environment. You could probably do a few things to improve it, though.
#1 is obviously getting a job or finding something that supports your creative and/or productive development as a human being. Being a consuming body in the house doesn't help anyone, not even yourself! I know you're getting turned down by jobs, but never give up. You will find one, and I guarantee you she will appreciate it even if she doesn't say so.
#2 do some nice things for her to show her how much you love her no matter what. Deep down I think most parents operate on the "unconditional love" principal. Finding a way to show her how much you care will not only make you feel good about your relationship with her, it also might help her through the denial phase as Shantel mentioned. It's the real deal- even my mom who reacted amazingly still went through a period where she questioned it a LOT and had many worries about my looks/presentation/mentality and at times was caught up by disbelief.
#3 slow downnnnn. She's going to need time to get through it, especially because you are so close emotionally and proximally. Talk about it less, make it not so big of a deal, but always be open to talk about it a little bit at most. Don't take every chance you get to bust out into a serious soul searching conversation. It might tire her out and it sounds like she's already way overwhelmed. Slow down the pace for her, and in time she will eventually be able to sort it out in her own head.
many hearts for you <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
I wish you the best
Please do keep us updated. I really hope I can somehow help!
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 26, 2013, 03:31:14 AM
It's going to be hard to transition in that kind of environment. You could probably do a few things to improve it, though.
#1 is obviously getting a job or finding something that supports your creative and/or productive development as a human being. Being a consuming body in the house doesn't help anyone, not even yourself! I know you're getting turned down by jobs, but never give up. You will find one, and I guarantee you she will appreciate it even if she doesn't say so.
#2 do some nice things for her to show her how much you love her no matter what. Deep down I think most parents operate on the "unconditional love" principal. Finding a way to show her how much you care will not only make you feel good about your relationship with her, it also might help her through the denial phase as Shantel mentioned. It's the real deal- even my mom who reacted amazingly still went through a period where she questioned it a LOT and had many worries about my looks/presentation/mentality and at times was caught up by disbelief.
#3 slow downnnnn. She's going to need time to get through it, especially because you are so close emotionally and proximally. Talk about it less, make it not so big of a deal, but always be open to talk about it a little bit at most. Don't take every chance you get to bust out into a serious soul searching conversation. It might tire her out and it sounds like she's already way overwhelmed. Slow down the pace for her, and in time she will eventually be able to sort it out in her own head.
many hearts for you <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
I wish you the best
Please do keep us updated. I really hope I can somehow help!
On point one, I'm working on it. I still have some responses coming in for interviews, so we'll see. For now, I will just keep sending out as many applications as possible.
#2. I'm always trying to do things with my mom and make her feel special. But lately she doesn't want me around. Trying to hug her turns into a cry fest with a look of disgust on her face.
#3. Believe me, I'm trying to avoid it. However, they keep throwing things at me. Every day they want a deep conversation which leads to everyone telling me "I'm wrong, destroying the family, etc..". It's getting to be too much at this point.
Quote from: learningtolive on June 26, 2013, 10:56:33 AM
On point one, I'm working on it. I still have some responses coming in for interviews, so we'll see. For now, I will just keep sending out as many applications as possible.
#2. I'm always trying to do things with my mom and make her feel special. But lately she doesn't want me around. Trying to hug her turns into a cry fest with a look of disgust on her face.
#3. Believe me, I'm trying to avoid it. However, they keep throwing things at me. Every day they want a deep conversation which leads to everyone telling me "I'm wrong, destroying the family, etc..". It's getting to be too much at this point.
During conversation time you could reverse things and ask them if they knew for certain in their heart and soul that they were actually living stuck in a gender opposite from who they really are, then
how would they expect you to respond to and treat them? Would they expect to be treated with love and civility or with open hostility
Quote from: Shantel on June 26, 2013, 11:20:34 AM
During conversation time you could reverse things and ask them if they knew for certain in their heart and soul that they were actually living stuck in a gender opposite from who they really are, then how would they expect you to respond to and treat them? Would they expect to be treated with love and civility or with open hostility
I've tried that one: it doesn't work. My mom said she was born a girl and can't imagine being a guy. Even if she felt that way internally, she would make the best of it because she doesn't believe this is right. She would rather suffer internally and find some other form of happiness before transitioning. And she asked me how I'd react if she did this. When I said I would accept it despite the initial shock, she told me I was a liar and wasn't being honest. So it's like talking to a wall no matter what angle I take.
You just can't talk to some people. She may not listen to reason but you need to tell her how much she is hurting you and that you accept that she doesn't understand but it isn't right to want you to suffer forever. You are just being honest about who you are why is that so selfish? I'd say this to your sisters as well and try to bring them on board. They were your allies last week and now they are changing their tune. No offense but that's pretty weak on their part to not stand their ground because that might make the difference in bringing your mom on board.
I would avoid wherever they are as much as possible. Don't you have a room you can stay in? I know isolating yourself isn't good but they need to miss you.
Quote from: learningtolive on June 26, 2013, 11:38:15 AM
I've tried that one: it doesn't work. My mom said she was born a girl and can't imagine being a guy. Even if she felt that way internally, she would make the best of it because she doesn't believe this is right. She would rather suffer internally and find some other form of happiness before transitioning. And she asked me how I'd react if she did this. When I said I would accept it despite the initial shock, she told me I was a liar and wasn't being honest. So it's like talking to a wall no matter what angle I take.
I always try and give positive leaning advice because after all we don't want our families to fall apart over a real life changing decision, but it sure seems to me that you're in a terribly toxic situation that may not get any better. I think you may need to move elsewhere. I don't know how old you are, but have been assuming that you are an adult from the way you write. Other than being unemployed currently is there anything stopping you from moving out?
ooh BTW even if your family won't say it right now with feeling I will: I love you. And that may seem strange because I may never meet you, or laugh with you, hold hand with you, or cry with you but I hope you understand what I mean what I mean when I say I love you, I love you with all my heart.
I don't think it would help, honestly, but I would more try to get her to picture herself being born male and being forced to live the rest of her life as a hairy man and being shuffled into male circles and be expected to be mr. manly all the time but, still, always be inside her wrong body with the mind she has now. I think that will be easier for her to imagine because we are our minds, not our bodies. It's so hard to picture having a different mind.
Quote from: Jen on June 26, 2013, 11:55:07 AM
I don't think it would help, honestly, but I would more try to get her to picture herself being born male and being forced to live the rest of her life as a hairy man and being shuffled into male circles and be expected to be mr. manly all the time but, still, always be inside her wrong body with the mind she has now. I think that will be easier for her to imagine because we are our minds, not our bodies. It's so hard to picture having a different mind.
I've tried this. It doesn't really seem to work. She finds a reason to say why she would love to be a man and find happiness.
Quote from: Shantel on June 26, 2013, 11:45:40 AM
I always try and give positive leaning advice because after all we don't want our families to fall apart over a real life changing decision, but it sure seems to me that you're in a terribly toxic situation that may not get any better. I think you may need to move elsewhere. I don't know how old you are, but have been assuming that you are an adult from the way you write. Other than being unemployed currently is there anything stopping you from moving out?
It's purely a finance issue. I'm 24 so I'm fairly old at this point to being living at home, but in my area of NY it's difficult to get your own place. Even once a get a job, the rent here will be difficult to afford with all the transitioning costs I will face. Plus, I am working on going to grad school for next year, so I can finally work towards getting my ph.d. Studying for the GRE and preparing for everything has taken times (and eventually financial investment) as well. Still, I have to try, but I don't want to leave my mom torn apart. We have always been so close and it would hurt her if I left (especially like this)
Quote from: Joanna Dark on June 26, 2013, 11:49:19 AM
ooh BTW even if your family won't say it right now with feeling I will: I love you. And that may seem strange because I may never meet you, or laugh with you, hold hand with you, or cry with you but I hope you understand what I mean what I mean when I say I love you, I love you with all my heart.
Thank you Joanna. I appreciate it.
Some kind of silver lining. My mom might come to meet my therapist next week. A little scared as she told me she wants the "transgender therapist to go .... herself", and that she is brainwashing me like a cult leader, but I guess this might be progress. Hopefully, it is progress.
Quote from: learningtolive on June 26, 2013, 12:53:23 PM
It's purely a finance issue. I'm 24 so I'm fairly old at this point to being living at home, but in my area of NY it's difficult to get your own place. Even once a get a job, the rent here will be difficult to afford with all the transitioning costs I will face. Plus, I am working on going to grad school for next year, so I can finally work towards getting my ph.d. Studying for the GRE and preparing for everything has taken times (and eventually financial investment) as well. Still, I have to try, but I don't want to leave my mom torn apart. We have always been so close and it would hurt her if I left (especially like this)
You've got a lot on your plate hon, my best to you!
I hope everything works out hun.
-hugs-
Quote from: learningtolive on June 26, 2013, 12:53:23 PM
I've tried this. It doesn't really seem to work. She finds a reason to say why she would love to be a man and find happiness.
No offense to your mom but if she says that she is being glib or lying. What woman would want to be a man and forced into the men's room (When I go to the men's with how I look now I feel like I am being thrown to the lions), forced to try and bond with men and they never accepted me. I had this one good friend once and he had this whole group of male friends and eventually they got him to stop associating with me. This wasn't at age 15 this was in 2008. One of these so-called human beings would call me a ->-bleeped-<-got right to my face and this was when I was the only person dating a woman and engaged. I cut them off after that but wanted to still chill with my one friend. I'm barely friends with him now and he was supposed to be the best man at my never was wedding.
It just sounds so horrid when I think about being forced to be a guy and so so relieving now that it is over. If she really considers it, she will see how bad it is. Here's an anecdote for your mom. I'm sure it applies to you and many trans women. Before HRT and transition I never thought a good word about myself but then today I was thinking I am this smart but sassy cute bunot snobby and generous but not a doormat woman and felt good about myself. I didn't realize until now that I could actually think of myself in good terms. Let your mom know how shi??y you'll feel without HRT and how fabulous with it. Don't use the word fabulous lol
Just move out. .pack ip and leave the state.
It's your choice.
You don't need anything more than a weks clothes
Tweezers and a file!!!
Some very great men and woman started with less than
You did...and accomplished the world...
Quote from: learningtolive on June 26, 2013, 12:53:23 PM
It's purely a finance issue. I'm 24 so I'm fairly old at this point to being living at home, but in my area of NY it's difficult to get your own place. Even once a get a job, the rent here will be difficult to afford with all the transitioning costs I will face. Plus, I am working on going to grad school for next year, so I can finally work towards getting my ph.d. Studying for the GRE and preparing for everything has taken times (and eventually financial investment) as well. Still, I have to try, but I don't want to leave my mom torn apart. We have always been so close and it would hurt her if I left (especially like this)
Thank you Joanna. I appreciate it.
Hi Learningtolive,
Like a lot of people here, I have been following your story over the last three months and am very saddened by the way things have worked out for you over the last week. Based on everything you said beforehand, notably the support you had from your sisters and how close you were to your mother, I really thought it would work out better than that.
Against that, I can't help but think that a week is a really short time in a life and while this is probably not what you want to hear, until you are in a position to fly on your own wings, I am thinking that if the encounter between you mother and the therapist doesn't make a significant difference, your best option for now is to go very low profile on this whole subject.
To give you a sense of perspective, I first saw a psychiatrist about my dysphoria in 1981. At the time, I met with total incomprehension, so much so that I went straight back into my shell and didn't start coming out of it again until almost twenty years later.
There is no way you will ever have to do that as no matter what your situation now, knowing what you already know, if you focus first on gaining your independence , you will quickly be in a position to do whatever you like.
What I am saying is that time is on your side, you may just have to be a little more patient than you first thought. If your entourage tries to force discussions on you, you can simply refuse the discussion saying that no one has anything to gain by forcing the issue now, that everyone needs time to take stock. For example you could say that you can and do understand how difficult it is for your mother but they also need to understand how difficult it is for you so best for all parties would be to just leave things lie for a while.
Overall, given the dynamics of the situation you describe, my gut feeling is that the biggest issue for you right now, even before transitioning, should be gaining your financial independance. That will put you on a far more equal and healthy footing with your mother.
Again, I feel for you having to go through more turmoil than expected, a setback certainly, but when there is clarity of purpose, with time such set-backs are overcome and looking back, we often think that what appeared to be a really big deal at the time wasn't such a big deal afterall.
Wishing you all the very best.
Donna
Yeah I totally agree. When I first responded I was thinking... You just need to move out.
That is probably the most important thing imo- any way you can swing it.
I understand what everyone is saying. I should probably move out and I may be getting kicked out (not forcefully but she may not be able to handle my transitioning under her roof), so I need to start finding a way to do so. But it is hard. I'm not established yet, I'm working on getting into grad school, I have to pay for transitioning costs, and need to pay for rent in NY. It's easier said then done. The main issue is I don't wan tto further damage my relationship. My mom is everything to me. And I know she is hurting. Leaving her now would be taking away her life and best friend. I don't feel that's necessarily right to do especially at this point. I'll have to see how things go. If it continues and I'm told I have to go, I should be prepared. For now, I think I have to bite the bullet. I'm leaving the door open for my mother to come to my support group and meet with my therapist. She wants to in fact. But she isn't accepting it at all. However, today we had a nice dinner together and talked about other things. Yes, this came back up once I got back from my hanging out with my friend and I had to hear her disapproval for an hour, but after that we talked together on the couch about other things. Keeping my mom in my life is really important. I don't think running away just yet is proper. Preparing for it is one thing, but I want to give her the chance. She deserves my understanding and patience at this time even if it sucks. Besides, she needs me right now just as much as I need her.
I didn't want to write this, but I kind of need to put it down here. My mom is a great person, so don't judge her harshly. But she called me and the rest of trans people at my support group freaks tonight. That was probably the hardest thing I've heard. I can handle being called male,boy, son, masculine, non feminine, etc. But freak is dehumanizing. I'm trying to be compassionate and understanding, but I keep getting ignorance thrown at me. I'm trying to combat it with patience and hope that I will be able to win her over without running away, but it's really hard. So I don't know. I feel a sea of conflicting emotions (maybe that's just the estrogen talking,lol). Still I stand by my previous post and hope that I will be able to win her over and continue a strong relationship with her. People say things when they are hurt so I forgive her, but it's not easy. I'm going to maintain my relationship with her no matter what so I will get her on my side eventually. I need her there and she needs me.
You are being very grown-up in how you have been handling all this. It has only been a few days, so I feel being patient for a while is totally reasonable and maybe the right thing to do. There is a point, however, where it just becomes abuse. Hopefully she will turn around before it gets there, but if it does, you just can't stay there taking it. It will cause you permanent damage. I mean it's one thing if she just doesn't like it and is struggling with it a bit, but the things you have been describing go way past that. And yes, we can say terrible things when we hurt, but those words came out, we can't take them back when we feel better. I hope she realizes that. You are treating her with so much respect, it's a shame she can't even come close to reciprocating.
I feel you have a plan though, even if it's just to figure a plan out at this point. So just keep focused on that. Hopefully it won't come down to you having to do anything drastic, but if it does, be prepared.
Quote from: Jen on June 26, 2013, 11:18:21 PM
You are being very grown-up in how you have been handling all this. It has only been a few days, so I feel being patient for a while is totally reasonable and maybe the right thing to do. There is a point, however, where it just becomes abuse. Hopefully she will turn around before it gets there, but if it does, you just can't stay there taking it. It will cause you permanent damage. I mean it's one thing if she just doesn't like it and is struggling with it a bit, but the things you have been describing go way past that. And yes, we can say terrible things when we hurt, but those words came out, we can't take them back when we feel better. I hope she realizes that. You are treating her with so much respect, it's a shame she can't even come close to reciprocating.
I feel you have a plan though, even if it's just to figure a plan out at this point. So just keep focused on that. Hopefully it won't come down to you having to do anything drastic, but if it does, be prepared.
+1 Very mature attitude, I admire you for that! Jen is right though, be sure and have a plan-B scenario worked out if plan-A doesn't pan out well!
Let's face it – you have been hiding part of yourself for years from someone who thought they knew you and from someone whom you love. You have good reasons for that – give them the reasons, help them understand. One bite at a time. When they bring up the topic comes up, tell them a short story of a specific incidence from you past where you had feeling of being a girl. Something like "When I was six, I was jealous of a dress someone was wearing." I hid this away because I was ashamed/didn't want to hurt you/didn't want public exposure etc. (pick one). We should have talked then. I realize that now that I was wrong/mistaken/not the best thing to do. I just wanted to be a normal boy. I am sorry." You get four or five at most sentences to give the incidence, how you felt, why you did not say anything then and apologize for not speaking earlier. Every time this comes up, you do the same thing with a different incident. And don't make them recent – this gets you out of the "It's your friends/ the internet/ the counselor." Use different descriptions and different words. Over and over again. No hugs unless they start it. Tears are good.
Also, every now and then, as you do this a few times, relate something that happened as a result of your feeling that was good. For me (JLT1), as an example, my hiding from what I am led me to tremendous success in my career. My hanging around my sister because she dressed so well and I was jealous meant I got to know one of her boyfriends and from there, played and enjoyed football. It has to be something that brings up mutually shared and fond memories. This is the opposite of above – the longer and more in-depth, the better. You are firming up the relationship, making it stronger.
You love them – forgive everything NOW. They do not understand, they are angry and lashing out. It's the relationship that is important, the apologies come from you first, and then the apologies will come from them. Swallow the pride, the hurt and your own (justifiable) anger for the sake of the relationship. I'm NOT saying this is right in anyway, it is only what works.
As far as I am aware, this is the only way to do it. It carries a risk, they may feel you lied to them forever and you're not the person they thought. However, this is the process your psychologist used with you to determine that you are transgender. Your helping your family though the same process.
Quote from: learningtolive on June 26, 2013, 10:51:46 PM
I didn't want to write this, but I kind of need to put it down here. My mom is a great person, so don't judge her harshly. But she called me and the rest of trans people at my support group freaks tonight. That was probably the hardest thing I've heard. I can handle being called male,boy, son, masculine, non feminine, etc. But freak is dehumanizing. I'm trying to be compassionate and understanding, but I keep getting ignorance thrown at me. I'm trying to combat it with patience and hope that I will be able to win her over without running away, but it's really hard. So I don't know. I feel a sea of conflicting emotions (maybe that's just the estrogen talking,lol). Still I stand by my previous post and hope that I will be able to win her over and continue a strong relationship with her. People say things when they are hurt so I forgive her, but it's not easy. I'm going to maintain my relationship with her no matter what so I will get her on my side eventually. I need her there and she needs me.
My step dad said that to me 3 days after I came out to him and my mom. It was really just him being worried about the hardships I might face from presenting as the opposite gender. But still, the words were harsh and there was nothing I could do but break down into tears and sob my eyes out in the back of the car.
He took note of how much it affected me and apologized. Luckily my mom helped a lot too.
I feel like she's going to come around. I know she will come around. You just have to go for presentation points when the time comes. And that point may be a little far off. She may even come around sooner than that.
There's nothing wrong with standing up for yourself right now. You know you are right and soon she will see. There will be a hint of "I told you so" in the air when that happens. You won't have to mention it, but she will feel it and see it from your side... most likely she will feel guilty for ever questioning you.... eventually.
Quote from: learningtolive on June 26, 2013, 10:51:46 PM
I didn't want to write this, but I kind of need to put it down here. My mom is a great person, so don't judge her harshly. But she called me and the rest of trans people at my support group freaks tonight. That was probably the hardest thing I've heard. I can handle being called male,boy, son, masculine, non feminine, etc. But freak is dehumanizing. I'm trying to be compassionate and understanding, but I keep getting ignorance thrown at me. I'm trying to combat it with patience and hope that I will be able to win her over without running away, but it's really hard. So I don't know. I feel a sea of conflicting emotions (maybe that's just the estrogen talking,lol). Still I stand by my previous post and hope that I will be able to win her over and continue a strong relationship with her. People say things when they are hurt so I forgive her, but it's not easy. I'm going to maintain my relationship with her no matter what so I will get her on my side eventually. I need her there and she needs me.
I actually snapped at my Sister for using the term, Freak. While I regret snapping back at her and causing a rift between us for a while, I think the time apart has been helpful.
I wish you had parents as loving and supportive as mine. I know how lucky I am and its hurtful in a way. I shouldn't be a lucky one in that respect. Everyone should be loved for who they are and who they want to be. Here's the thing. I'm getting to where I actually try and put them off transition. Not because it's a bad thing, but because its a life not for the faint of heart. Who the hell wants to lose family, friends, a job, or even their life just for being true to themselves?
I know that your Mum is scared. And I know you are too. But hang in there. perhaps give her some space and time. Ask her to do some research of her own. I know you are close to her but it's a lot for her to process. Let her know that therapists, that have dealt with trans issues anyway, are trained to help you figure out if transition is right for you. and they can help explain things to your Mum.
*hugs* I truly wish you're act of courage was met with an equal amout of compassion.
Thanks everyone for your support.
It's continuing to be a rough week. Since I have posted, I have received more employment rejection letters and still seem to be struggling with finding a way to improve my financial situation in the event I need to make a run for the hills,lol. I feel like I'm in a limbo situation where I have too much experience and education for positions that I'm qualified for and too little experience and education for other positions. I can't seem to find the right spot. But damn me for being a social science nerd and not considering that my passion offers very little employment opportunities at the undergraduate level. Oh well, grad school will come soon enough.
As for my mom, things are not improving. She is no longer yelling at me, but now she is sort of ignoring me and giving me the silent treatment. The other day I hugged her on the couch for about a half an hour hoping for some response. Well, she just starred at the TV and acted like I was a ghost. It's been like this lately. She told me she'd come meet my therapist and I scheduled a very late session so she could make it, but now she won't even answer me regarding whether she will attend or not. It's like I don't exist or something. And worst of all my sister who was supportive has taken a neutral stance on everything. Like it's okay for me to be treated poorly and she shouldn't say anything. I just wish she could stand up for me a little. Especially when my mom called me a freak. I would have done so for her. But I guess it's the same old story at this point. I suppose it's an improvement to be ignored than yelled at. At least she is demanding I stop taking hormones, see my therapist, talk to friends and post on support sites. A few days ago she told me she was going to steal my computer and phone and have me kidnapped by people that will talk sense into me,lol. I guess to isolate me and force me into a strict conversion therapy,lol. Now, it's like I'm not even there. So, I suppose it's a bitter sweet improvement.
Quote from: JLT1 on June 27, 2013, 11:24:08 AM
Let's face it – you have been hiding part of yourself for years from someone who thought they knew you and from someone whom you love. You have good reasons for that – give them the reasons, help them understand. One bite at a time. When they bring up the topic comes up, tell them a short story of a specific incidence from you past where you had feeling of being a girl. Something like "When I was six, I was jealous of a dress someone was wearing." I hid this away because I was ashamed/didn't want to hurt you/didn't want public exposure etc. (pick one). We should have talked then. I realize that now that I was wrong/mistaken/not the best thing to do. I just wanted to be a normal boy. I am sorry." You get four or five at most sentences to give the incidence, how you felt, why you did not say anything then and apologize for not speaking earlier. Every time this comes up, you do the same thing with a different incident. And don't make them recent – this gets you out of the "It's your friends/ the internet/ the counselor." Use different descriptions and different words. Over and over again. No hugs unless they start it. Tears are good.
Also, every now and then, as you do this a few times, relate something that happened as a result of your feeling that was good. For me (JLT1), as an example, my hiding from what I am led me to tremendous success in my career. My hanging around my sister because she dressed so well and I was jealous meant I got to know one of her boyfriends and from there, played and enjoyed football. It has to be something that brings up mutually shared and fond memories. This is the opposite of above – the longer and more in-depth, the better. You are firming up the relationship, making it stronger.
You love them – forgive everything NOW. They do not understand, they are angry and lashing out. It's the relationship that is important, the apologies come from you first, and then the apologies will come from them. Swallow the pride, the hurt and your own (justifiable) anger for the sake of the relationship. I'm NOT saying this is right in anyway, it is only what works.
As far as I am aware, this is the only way to do it. It carries a risk, they may feel you lied to them forever and you're not the person they thought. However, this is the process your psychologist used with you to determine that you are transgender. Your helping your family though the same process.
Thank you for the advice. I actually have tried explaining things to her and giving her particular situations. All she does in response is tell me I'm brainwashed, joined a cult, I'm confused, someone is manipulating my mind, I'm misinterpreting my own feelings, I'm lying or simply don't know myself, and there are plenty of other explanations than being trans. Lately we haven't even talked. In the past 3 days, we have hardly even communicated with one another, so I don't know where her mind is now. But if feels like she is just giving me the silent treatment more than anything.
Quote from: learningtolive on June 29, 2013, 10:56:00 AM
Thank you for the advice. I actually have tried explaining things to her and giving her particular situations. All she does in response is tell me I'm brainwashed, joined a cult, I'm confused, someone is manipulating my mind, I'm misinterpreting my own feelings, I'm lying or simply don't know myself, and there are plenty of other explanations than being trans. Lately we haven't even talked. In the past 3 days, we have hardly even communicated with one another, so I don't know where her mind is now. But if feels like she is just giving me the silent treatment more than anything.
Sounds pretty normal to me. You could have heard what I heard once. "You must be demon possessed, OMG we'll have to get an exorcist!" My youngest son, in his late 30's sent me an email saying that he's no longer a member of my family and disowns me, then he had his last name legally changed. I haven't seen him in more than five years and when I look at the family photo montage and see his little boy photos my eyes start tearing up again. Hang in there sweetie, you're going to survive this, so far you seem to be dealing with it very gracefully.
Quote from: Shantel on June 29, 2013, 11:12:07 AM
Sounds pretty normal to me. You could have heard what I heard once. "You must be demon possessed, OMG we'll have to get an exorcist!" My youngest son, in his late 30's sent me an email saying that he's no longer a member of my family and disowns me, then he had his last name legally changed. I haven't seen him in more than five years and when I look at the family photo montage and see his little boy photos my eyes start tearing up again. Hang in there sweetie, you're going to survive this, so far you seem to be dealing with it very gracefully.
OMG that's horrible. I'm so so so so sorry. People can be so cruel.
Wow Shan, I had no idea. I would have never guessed you had gone through such a thing. The fact that you remain a shining beacon of positivity and inspiration regardless of your history with your youngest son slays me, and it just makes you all the more inspiring :)
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 29, 2013, 02:24:12 PM
Wow Shan, I had no idea. I would have never guessed you had gone through such a thing. The fact that you remain a shining beacon of positivity and inspiration regardless of your history with your youngest son slays me, and it just makes you all the more inspiring :)
My take is that sh*t happens, it always comes from an a**hole, but they don't always remain a**holes and eventually forgiveness is in order and then all is right with the world. :)
Well tonight was better. My mom actually talked to me. She came into my room and acknowledged that we haven't talked the past few days. She then started to cry and told me that she is hoping for a miracle and will not let me do this, but she is going to come to the therapist. I suppose sorrow and denial is better than anger and silence. Hopefully this is more progress.
Quote from: Shantel on June 29, 2013, 11:12:07 AM
Sounds pretty normal to me. You could have heard what I heard once. "You must be demon possessed, OMG we'll have to get an exorcist!" My youngest son, in his late 30's sent me an email saying that he's no longer a member of my family and disowns me, then he had his last name legally changed. I haven't seen him in more than five years and when I look at the family photo montage and see his little boy photos my eyes start tearing up again. Hang in there sweetie, you're going to survive this, so far you seem to be dealing with it very gracefully.
Shantel, I'm so sorry about your son. Do you have any communication with those in his life? Perhaps they can talk to him? Maybe there is a chance for reconciliation? I wish there was something I could do. I'm not one for prayer, but I know you believe in it and will say one for you in hopes that it will do some good. No parent should be separated from their child. It's not right. However, thank you for sharing. I know that must have been painful, but I do appreciate all your support through this time.
It sounds like she is going through the process of grief. You probably recognize the stages. I hope so much that she will arive at acceptance soon and start treating you better. I feel so bad for you
Shantel, that is really terrible and I just want to give you a hug!
I hope that everything works out with your mom. I know my own mom and myself have a lot to still work working through and it is hard. I am sorry things are so hard for you at the moment. -hugs-
Shantel that is horrible. I hope things work out with your child.
Well, scratch the progress off. She is now threatening to get rid of my medication and stop me from transitioning under her roof. She yelled at me for an hour straight. Honestly, **** her at this point. I'm sick of her manipulating me emotionally. I'm not her toy to bully. I'm not doing anything wrong. She is then telling me that I'm in the wrong for not dumping my friend, support groups, therapist and stop taking medication. Yeah, who's being the selfish one? How hard is it to read a book and learn about this stuff. The stuff she says makes her sound like an ignorant hate tank. She compared me to a bank robber and rapist tonight for what I'm doing. I'm done being nice. If she wants to be a ****, then she is going to have some competition.
Be careful. I know you are mad, but please be careful.
:(
Susans is a great place to let off steam btw... /hug
I agree with Bookworm. You need to be careful, even though I agree that she's starting to take this thing a bit too far. You'll need to be gentle, but you also need to assert yourself and make sure she understands that she's being irrational.
*hugs*
We're always here for you, and I'm so sorry for how your situation is currently.
Quote from: Jen on June 29, 2013, 11:32:41 PM
:(
Susans is a great place to let off steam btw... /hug
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fts2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DH.4522395492090561%26amp%3Bpid%3D15.1&hash=74f59e4f8e06d34c7500204a29a53b22b48e3ca6)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DH.4585093422516984%26amp%3Bpid%3D15.1&hash=1b6cc88260f893a4dcbbafb721f959deb9f94e0e)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fts3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DH.4588048354313942%26amp%3Bpid%3D15.1&hash=061c5f4e2e7aa5a04925bdd26d05688efb341f18)
Hugs
Pick one that works best for you
Forgive me for my outburst. It was childish to write all that here. I want to scream and yell, but feel unable to do it at her. Instead I have to sit and hear her compare me to a rapist for wanting to transition. I'm doing the best I can to deal with her, but she is really testing me. I don't know how much longer I can sit and explain the same things over again. Shouldn't it seep in by now? At least to some degree?
My mom isn't kicking me out, but she is determined to stop this. She makes threats that elude to kicking me out and stopping my transition; however, I doubt she will carry it out. We had a very brief interaction and she is a little better. She is sleeping on the couch, so she didn't have the energy to continue perhaps. But it was nice to have a pleasant makeup moment for two minutes. But I have to be aware that she can snap at any moment. She's been very unpredictable lately. She's never supportive, but sometimes she is less hostile. I guess I just need to put up with the abuse. Hopefully, it will get better.
She compared you to a rapist? Eww. I know people say be gentle, be caring, be compassionate and all that but aren't we the ones transitoning? Aren't we the ones who are just trying to be ourselves? And don't we deserve some respect? Is being honest really so selfish? IDK, I just think your mom is going a little too far and she should either back off or accept you. That is the adult thing to do. She has made her opinion known and she should leave it at that. Emotionally abusing you is wrong. That being said I wouldn't say anything to her I would just ignore her and stop responding to her. More then anything, stay strong. *hugs*
Quote from: learningtolive on June 29, 2013, 11:57:42 PM
Forgive me for my outburst. It was childish to write all that here. I want to scream and yell, but feel unable to do it at her. Instead I have to sit and hear her compare me to a rapist for wanting to transition. I'm doing the best I can to deal with her, but she is really testing me. I don't know how much longer I can sit and explain the same things over again. Shouldn't it seep in by now? At least to some degree?
My mom isn't kicking me out, but she is determined to stop this. She makes threats that elude to kicking me out and stopping my transition; however, I doubt she will carry it out. We had a very brief interaction and she is a little better. She is sleeping on the couch, so she didn't have the energy to continue perhaps. But it was nice to have a pleasant makeup moment for two minutes. But I have to be aware that she can snap at any moment. She's been very unpredictable lately. She's never supportive, but sometimes she is less hostile. I guess I just need to put up with the abuse. Hopefully, it will get better.
There is nothing wrong with your post dear and there is nothing for you to apologize for
I no longer live with my folks, being someone who has suffered with a lot of abuse I can somewhat understand your situation and hope for things to work out and go well for you
Sometimes Often humor has been my best friend to help me work through and deal with it all
We are all here for you
Hugs
V M
She may just be trying to manipulate you into mimicking her behavior, and if possible then she can use that against you to try and convince you or others that you are unstable and unreasonable. Don't let her do this if possible.
If you can be consistent, gentle, and patient with her - while staying true to yourself she may eventually get exhausted. If you see any opportunity to connect with her woman to woman (mother to daughter) I would take those opportunities. Personally, I would move closer to her and seek to connect with her more deeply as it will make it much harder for her to just dismiss you. Don't let her temper tantrums push you away - it's quite possibly just a phase with her and there's a good chance she will one day look back with regret at the things she said. If she hasn't been an abusive mother your whole life, then likely what you are dealing with is a woman who is just desperate, and who is moving through grief and there's a good chance this will pass.
Look for opportunities to connect, ultimately you are still your mother's child - and as a feminine spirit yourself there's a great power and potential in the connection the two of you share. I hope these opportunities present themselves more and more for you. Open your heart to her, but also stay true to yourself. It's a very difficult tension to hold, it was for me.
It's ironic that often when we're at our most vulnerable, and need the most support, is also when those we love also are the most vulnerable and need our support. But if both we, and the ones we love each only stay focused on ourselves as victims through transition, never considering the real difficulty the other faces then progress is much more difficult in my opinion. This is what was difficult for me personally. But I did find that when I gave support to friends and family during my own transition, that I received it back - though sometimes on a delay. I now encourage people to give support and compassion and patience to those they transition with because I see it come back to them more often than not.
I am holding you and your mom in my thoughts and heart.
Hi LtL,
I am quite amazed at some of the things you are reporting about what has being going on between you and your mother since you came out. It really does amount to abuse. However, since everything you had said before that suggests that your mother was a very kind and loving person, it makes me wonder what is driving all of this.
Actually, a couple of other things you said also attracted me attention, like you cuddling up against your mother on the sofa for a long hug.
I have a 24 year old son who is also very close to his mother (and to me as it happens) but I can't imagine him for a second cuddling up against his mother in anything remotely like the manner you describe, which, based on my experience at least, is quite exceptional for someone your age. Maybe this is just a cultural thing, so I'll leave it to you to decide if what I am about to suggest makes any sense.
I get the feeling from everything you write, "my Mom is everything to me etc. etc..", plus the way you interact physically with her, that up until now, you were still very much your "Mom's" little boy and that maybe the ombilical cord had never really been cut.
If this is the case, by coming out you have just done two things that must be very traumatic for your mother:
- you have finally taken a personal stand on a very important issue, affirming your own identity independently of her ie. you have taken the first major step in finally cutting the ombilical cord.
- you have done it in a manner which seems to challenge many of your mother's core beliefs eg. about what being a man or a woman means.
Assuming there is some truth to all of this, she is going through more trauma than you can probably imagine and not yet being able to stand back from her own feelings and emotions, she is lashing out in an instinctive rejection of something she simply can't cope with for now.
While I'm writing this, I think she could actually do with some third party help herself, someone who could help her understand her reactions, stand back from it all and really think about what she now wants for herself. If you think of some of the posts you see in the SO section here, your mother is in the same situation but even worse as there is much to suggest that you two were perhaps even closer than was good for either of you.
For you yourself, is there nowhere you can go for a cooling off period, no friend or relative who could provide you with a place to sleep for a week or two? If such a possibility exists, I really encourage you to do it as it will provide a breather for everyone and allow the tensions to ease. I would hope that even you mother could understand that.
One way or another, if your relationship is as solid as you described, this will work out because people who love each other, even when badly hurt, do try to understand the other person's point of view. So, don't panic, time is on your side and it is now mostly a question of creating the conditions to allow everyone take stock. By order of importance, I would suggest your mother sees a therapist to talk through her own feelings and that you guys are separated for a while.
Wishing you all the very best.
Donna
Quote from: learningtolive on June 29, 2013, 11:57:42 PM
Forgive me for my outburst. It was childish to write all that here. I want to scream and yell, but feel unable to do it at her. Instead I have to sit and hear her compare me to a rapist for wanting to transition. I'm doing the best I can to deal with her, but she is really testing me. I don't know how much longer I can sit and explain the same things over again. Shouldn't it seep in by now? At least to some degree?
My mom isn't kicking me out, but she is determined to stop this. She makes threats that elude to kicking me out and stopping my transition; however, I doubt she will carry it out. We had a very brief interaction and she is a little better. She is sleeping on the couch, so she didn't have the energy to continue perhaps. But it was nice to have a pleasant makeup moment for two minutes. But I have to be aware that she can snap at any moment. She's been very unpredictable lately. She's never supportive, but sometimes she is less hostile. I guess I just need to put up with the abuse. Hopefully, it will get better.
i would really recommend telling her you have decided not to transition and keep doing it behind her back for a few months to like 6 months so you can save up and move out. when parents get like that it can turn ugly for you. your of age right? i dont know what the rules are in your state but if its like mine they can lie to get you put on a 72 hour hold. all it takes (at least in my state) is two people to swear your a danger to yourself and sign a piece of paper and then someone from the court to sign off. then the police come to get you and take you to the psyc place. im sorry your moms trying to manipulate you but remember with that the next step is always to manipulate people other than you if you dont cave first :(
I dunno if I would recommend lying to her about it ???
I lied to my parents when I was younger about dysphoria related things and told them I had stopped. Eventually they found out again and it was 10X worse.
It might make it more survivable in the interim but lying about this sort of thing seems like it could leave a seriously permanent wound.
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 30, 2013, 02:51:44 PM
I dunno if I would recommend lying to her about it ???
I lied to my parents when I was younger about dysphoria related things and told them I had stopped. Eventually they found out again and it was 10X worse.
It might make it more survivable in the interim but lying about this sort of thing seems like it could leave a seriously permanent wound.
yeah i can see your point. lying does make things worse if you are staying there long term. but if your moving and they are acting mean i wouldn't care
I would just second Jenny's advice. I wouldn't lie unless you feel willing for permanent damage to be done to your relationship with your mother. In the short term she will learn that abusing you means getting her way and that you weren't serious about any of this, and in the long term, when she finds out you lied, she may not trust again, or worse.
Keeping things hidden is only a short term band aid.
Nothing has really changed since I last posted. Last night we had another "talk" where she tried to convince me about my "mistake". However, she said something that really concerns me. She doesn't think that she can see me make the changes. She isn't being hostile now, but she may not want to see me in the future. At this moment, she doesn't know what this means, but we may no longer be able to live with each other or even have a close relationship. I understand it's all hard for her, so I don't blame her for her feelings. The things is, I don't want to permanently lose my mom and I don't know where I will go if it comes to that. She told me she would never leave me in the cold, but she doesn't know if we can live in the same house at that point. And she told me that I will not be allowed to leave or enter the house dressed in a manner that she deems inappropriate (aka, dressed as female). So I'm freaked out. Perhaps I shouldn't focus on this now, but I have to think about living arrangements if it comes to this. I'm going to do my best to get any employment that I can find and save up. The problem is where I live the cheapest apartments are around $1,000 a month. That's just for a studio. It's not really possible to afford rent in NYC or Long Island without a sustainable income. There is the roomate option and moving to the ghetto option; however, I want to be safe while transitioning. When throwing other transitioning costs on top of this, it becomes a huge struggle. I guess it's possible to live in my car or stay at a shelter for some time, but that's not too ideal. Nonetheless, if that's what's needed temporarily for transitioning, I will have to do it. But my mom said she wouldn't leave me in the cold, so maybe I am over thinking it. Then again, if she won't let me dress the way I want, it sort of is like being kicked out. Hopefully, she will change her mind in time.
Quote from: Donna Elvira on June 30, 2013, 03:02:36 AM
Hi LtL,
I am quite amazed at some of the things you are reporting about what has being going on between you and your mother since you came out. It really does amount to abuse. However, since everything you had said before that suggests that your mother was a very kind and loving person, it makes me wonder what is driving all of this.
Actually, a couple of other things you said also attracted me attention, like you cuddling up against your mother on the sofa for a long hug.
I have a 24 year old son who is also very close to his mother (and to me as it happens) but I can't imagine him for a second cuddling up against his mother in anything remotely like the manner you describe, which, based on my experience at least, is quite exceptional for someone your age. Maybe this is just a cultural thing, so I'll leave it to you to decide if what I am about to suggest makes any sense.
I get the feeling from everything you write, "my Mom is everything to me etc. etc..", plus the way you interact physically with her, that up until now, you were still very much your "Mom's" little boy and that maybe the ombilical cord had never really been cut.
If this is the case, by coming out you have just done two things that must be very traumatic for your mother:
- you have finally taken a personal stand on a very important issue, affirming your own identity independently of her ie. you have taken the first major step in finally cutting the ombilical cord.
- you have done it in a manner which seems to challenge many of your mother's core beliefs eg. about what being a man or a woman means.
Assuming there is some truth to all of this, she is going through more trauma than you can probably imagine and not yet being able to stand back from her own feelings and emotions, she is lashing out in an instinctive rejection of something she simply can't cope with for now.
While I'm writing this, I think she could actually do with some third party help herself, someone who could help her understand her reactions, stand back from it all and really think about what she now wants for herself. If you think of some of the posts you see in the SO section here, your mother is in the same situation but even worse as there is much to suggest that you two were perhaps even closer than was good for either of you.
For you yourself, is there nowhere you can go for a cooling off period, no friend or relative who could provide you with a place to sleep for a week or two? If such a possibility exists, I really encourage you to do it as it will provide a breather for everyone and allow the tensions to ease. I would hope that even you mother could understand that.
One way or another, if your relationship is as solid as you described, this will work out because people who love each other, even when badly hurt, do try to understand the other person's point of view. So, don't panic, time is on your side and it is now mostly a question of creating the conditions to allow everyone take stock. By order of importance, I would suggest your mother sees a therapist to talk through her own feelings and that you guys are separated for a while.
Wishing you all the very best.
Donna
Thank you Donna. I understand what you are saying. If I could leave briefly, I would; however, I have nowhere else to go. I don't have anyone that would take me in or at least I don't have anyone that I'd feel comfortable asking. So I am stuck here until I can afford to leave or have to do so. I'm trying to help her understand and she will be attending my therapy session this week. Still, she has told me that she will do whatever it takes to stop this and that she will not allow me to do this. And if she does enforce a dress code for the house and tells me she doesn't want to see me change, then it might come to me being forced to go to a shelter or live in my car. I just hope it improves, but I don't know.
Maybe she is trying to scare you and manipulate you into not transitioning. It is really, really selfish that she is so concerned with her own view of the world and happiness that you are just some player to be controlled and to fit into her world. If she really wanted you to be happy, she would at least keep these thoughts to herself. It is highly manipulative behavior. But you can put off going full-time for awhile. Does she mean obviously girly girl clothes or any clothes that are even andro? I guess I could understand the skirt and top but a sensible pair of women's jeans and a nice open neck top and a cute pair of canvas shoes not so much.
What would she say if you decided to detranstion but said how you would be sacrificing every ounce of happiness so she could go back to before and that you would prolly end up severely depressed or worse?
Along those lines, you could ask your mother this question, is the requirement for your love that I conform myself to your idea of who I am, instead of just being myself, even if that means that I will be unhappy for the rest of my life?
With how irrational she is being I don't think this question will cause her to suddenly be introspective or anything, but I think if her answer is yes, then you have to ask yourself if she is somebody you really want in your life after all?
I hope, for both of your sakes, that she will one day change her view on this. I also know where she is asking you to go emotionally just so that she doesn't have to change her perception of you to match reality.
Quote from: Jen on July 01, 2013, 04:01:57 PM
Along those lines, you could ask your mother this question, is the requirement for your love that I conform myself to your idea of who I am, instead of just being myself, even if that means that I will be unhappy for the rest of my life?
With how irrational she is being I don't think this question will cause her to suddenly be introspective or anything, but I think if her answer is yes, then you have to ask yourself if she is somebody you really want in your life after all?
I hope, for both of your sakes, that she will one day change her view on this. I also know where she is asking you to go emotionally just so that she doesn't have to change her perception of you to match reality.
Hi Jen,
With all due respect, I don't believe such an approach would be very productive, at least not for now. Right now, if a win-win is the desired outcome, I really believe the biggest emphasis should be placed on understanding why LtL's mother is reacting in the way she is.
The only really positive path forward is true acceptance and it will be very difficult for acceptance to be freely given if it based on any sort of emotional blackmail, it must be based on understanding.
LtL's mother is struggling right now and she needs to understand what she is struggling with. She will almost certainly need outside help with this, a benevolent hand who can help her express her distress which is certainly what is driving what you call her "irrational" behaviour. The problem is, right now what seems irrational to you almost certainly seems very rational to her.
LtL has told us all along she wants to preserve the relationship with mother and, without giving in on anything, trying to understand the mother's feelings would probably be a good starting point in achieving this
Warm regards.
Donna
@Donna You are a very reasonable person :)
I hope that her mother can find somebody that she respects to guide her in in the direction of acceptance. I think it will be very hard to preserve the relationship without that happening. Like you say, the only positive path forward is true acceptance. Other paths forward will be varying degrees of unpleasantness.
I can see where her mother's distress comes from. I can see how she wants to fix the cause of that. I would love to see some sign that she is able to see past her own wants and needs.
I admit that this is too reminiscent of how things went with my own mother, and I have a hard time not being emotionally invested in this situation, which I'm sure clouds my judgement of it.
Oh PS I asked a similar question of my mom and it gave her pause. It was asked softly with love behind it, maybe not with the tone you imagine.
Quote from: Donna Elvira on July 01, 2013, 04:36:11 PM
The only really positive path forward is true acceptance and it will be very difficult for acceptance to be freely given if it based on any sort of emotional blackmail, it must be based on understanding.
I generally agree with you Donna but emotional blackmail is when someone tells someone else something untrue in order to manipulate them. The one guilty of it is LTL's mom, who I can't believe would cut her out of her life like that. LTL will experience all kinds of emotional horror by not transitioning. Especially now that she has come this far only to turn back. If I detransitioned, I'd be dead within the year. Maybe for others it isn't so dire and the stakes aren't so very high, but LTL could succumb to some bad influences as in hard drugs like I did. Her mom should know the consequences of her actions.
And I said something similar to my mom. She was like "you need to stop this" and I said "fine I will. And tomorrow I'll relapse. How do you think I got well and I got happy? This is the answer."
I admit maybe I'm lucky in a strange sort of way that I can point to exact situations that have occured and will occur when I am in the grips of horrid GID.
LtL – Did you and your mother spend a lot of time together, planning your future? Kind of mapping things out???
Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 01, 2013, 04:59:28 PM
I generally agree with you Donna but emotional blackmail is when someone tells someone else something untrue in order to manipulate them.
Hi Joanna,
Wikipedia:
Emotional blackmail is a form of psychological manipulation - it is "the use of a system of threats and punishment on a person by someone close to them in an attempt to control their behavior".IMHO, telling someone that you will be unhappy all of your life and maybe do something drastic (even doing it) if they don't give in to you would enter that definition,
even if true. In recent years, one of my neighbours threatened his wife that he would kill himself if she left him. He tried once unsuccessfully but succeeded a few months later, hanging himself in the living room where he was found by one of his kids. Do you believe his wife, who was deeply unhappy with their relationaship, should have stayed with him?
In reaction to the first draft of LtL's coming out letter, I suggested that "emotional blackmail" was a double edged sword. it can work, short term, but does not lead to a healthy relationship and almost always creates lingering resentment. At the first opportunity, the people concerned will almost invariably do it back to you too.
Today, LtL is feeling a lot of guilt about her mother's visible suffering but at some stage this could easily become frustration and anger. Sure she could hit back and try to make her mother feel as bad as possible too but I really don"t see that being a good solution for either of them.
As a late transitioner doing quite a slow transition I believe a lot in the virtue of patience. In my own case it has allowed me to preserve my mariage, my relationaship with my kids and pretty well all the people who count in my life. I have already transitioned completely in my private life and while there is still some frustration on the professional end, just knowing who I am, accepting who I am and being accepted by those around me has provided great relief and at times, even real joy. The term "gender euphoria" is perfectly adapted!
LtL is only 24 and her relationship with her mother counts hugely for her. Under such circomstances, I believe it is worth taking some time to gain real acceptance and the best way to do that, is to try to geuninely understand the other person's feelings before pushing your own agenda.
If at the end of the day, you hit a wall, so be it but I think it is far too early in the day to say that this is the case here.
Warm regards.
Donna
P.S. Difference between manipulation and influence? In manipulation you try to influence someone without being open to their influence in return (you are just pushing your own agenda). Real influence requires being open to the other party's influence in return.
Regarding this. Another "axiom" worth considering is the following: In any given situation, the person who has the greatest influence is the person who shows the most flexibility in their behaviours.
People often find this idea quite counter intuitive, and very difficult to put into practise, but when you think about it for a while....
learningtolive, I am in tears reading all this. How can people be so cruel? A Mother is the one who should be the most supportive of all and yet she is treating you like that. This is horrible, horrible situation to be in. It seems to me that she mainly thinks of herself and is being horribly selfish, thinking how she had a son and now she doesn't and about all of the embarrassing explanations she would have to do to friends, family and neighbors. She doesn't want her life to change and doesn't understand that it's about YOU and YOUR life and not hers.
I don't know where in NY you are, I just wish I could help. We are in upstate NY and if you ever need any help, please contact me.
And I thought my mom's reaction was bad... she has NEVER accepted the fact that I am trans and even after all these years, surgeries and HRT she still thinks I am kidding myself and will someday regret. Well, at least she never screamed at me and keeps loving me.
I agree with many people here... you should run for the hills if it get worse, if she really tries something like getting rid of your meds or bringing a pries home or something.
Quote from: makinmagic on July 02, 2013, 12:07:17 AM
learningtolive, I am in tears reading all this. How can people be so cruel? A Mother is the one who should be the most supportive of all and yet she is treating you like that. This is horrible, horrible situation to be in. It seems to me that she mainly thinks of herself and is being horribly selfish, thinking how she had a son and now she doesn't and about all of the embarrassing explanations she would have to do to friends, family and neighbors. She doesn't want her life to change and doesn't understand that it's about YOU and YOUR life and not hers.
I don't know where in NY you are, I just wish I could help. We are in upstate NY and if you ever need any help, please contact me.
And I thought my mom's reaction was bad... she has NEVER accepted the fact that I am trans and even after all these years, surgeries and HRT she still thinks I am kidding myself and will someday regret. Well, at least she never screamed at me and keeps loving me.
I agree with many people here... you should run for the hills if it get worse, if she really tries something like getting rid of your meds or bringing a pries home or something.
Yeah...If she brings a priest home, there's not much use in trying to convince her anymore....
Now, I dont' know much about meds, but I know that my ADD meds are paid for by my dad. Now, if my mom were to get rid of those, then she would be trashing a good 40 bucks.
I dunno ''bout every one else, but that sounds kinda messed up to me.
Quote from: Donna Elvira on July 02, 2013, 12:02:26 AM
Hi Joanna,
Wikipedia: Emotional blackmail is a form of psychological manipulation - it is "the use of a system of threats and punishment on a person by someone close to them in an attempt to control their behavior".
IMHO, telling someone that you will be unhappy all of your life and maybe do something drastic (even doing it) if they don't give in to you would enter that definition, even if true. In recent years, one of my neighbours threatened his wife that he would kill himself if she left him. He tried once unsuccessfully but succeeded a few months later, hanging himself in the living room where he was found by one of his kids. Do you believe his wife, who was deeply unhappy with their relationaship, should have stayed with him?
The question I posed was (with fewer words)
in order for you to love me do I have to pretend to be somebody other than myself, even if that means I will never be happy? No mention of doing anything drastic. Honestly I don't see blackmail there because it lacks a threat, other than the threat of how her mother's vision of her future will actually affect her. It is an emotional appeal for sure, but blackmail... idk
I just felt I needed to clarify because a) I don't see how it is a bad question to ask and b) comparing it to threatening suicide is just... way off base from the intention of anything I said. I am just kind of feeling like I'm having things projected all over my words..
I dealt with some very negative reactions when I came out to my fam and I still am being patient and trying to preserve relationships with them. I am not a rash person and I value the relationship with my family more than you can know.
I also understood my own fragility and realized when I had to put some distance between me and people that were being toxic and driving me toward losing my battle. So what I mean by asking whether you want such people in your life is not cutting them off, or striking out and burning every bridge, I just mean stepping out of their toxic cloud so you can recover and start to grow. I would never cut anybody out of my life out of spite and I haven't, and I wouldn't ever mean to suggest anybody else do so either. I have never told anybody off through this process. All of them know how much I love them because I tell them so.
Quote from: Jen on July 02, 2013, 12:41:00 AM
The question I posed was (with fewer words) in order for you to love me do I have to pretend to be somebody other than myself, even if that means I will never be happy? No mention of doing anything drastic. Honestly I don't see blackmail there because it lacks a threat, other than the threat of how her mother's vision of her future will actually affect her. It is an emotional appeal for sure, but blackmail... idk
Joanna,
That's not a bad question but it is still all about you and posed in such a manner, probably will create feelings of guilt in the other person. What I am saying is that when someone you love is clearly in deep distress, it might be a good idea to first focus on them.
With that I need to get to work...
Warm regards.
Donna
How can they be so cruel? Easy. Use what you have to get what you want and to get people to do what you want. It's basic queen bee stuff 101. ;)
Has anybody heard from l2l in a while? I am a lil worried abt her..
Quote from: Jen on July 03, 2013, 10:42:21 AM
Has anybody heard from l2l in a while? I am a lil worried abt her..
Uh-ooh, me too!
Quote from: Shantel on July 03, 2013, 10:49:32 AM
Uh-ooh, me too!
I have. She's rather busy. But Skye-Blue, THAT'S who i am worried about.
Hi l2l,
I have been away for a couple of weeks and only now read about your coming out. I am so sorry that you are having such a difficult and emotional time with your mother. You, of all people, do not deserve this as you have been so kind to me and many other girls here. I wish I could offer you some really good advice but as I remain in the closet I cannot share any experience of coming out with you. All I can offer is my love and support and my friendship.
I hope it gets better for you soon,
Love,
Ciara.
Reading more of LtL's posts, I can't help but be reminded of my wife when I read about her mother. I tried to start hrt back in 2005. But my wife threw out my meds. She knew when we got married, that I was transgendered. But we faught tooth and claw over it. Quite often I was furious and left crying. Its a wonder I didnt start on drugs or alcohol. Shes thrown out clothes, guilt tripped me.... all it has led to is I do not trust her anymore. When she came with me to DC, I questioned her motives and I still do. In fact, there is only one person in my life that I trust implicitly now. It should be my wife. But its Caleb. It's not a good thing when you dont trust your spouse to have your best interests too.
I'm okay everyone. :) Just have been busy. I'm desperately doing what I can to find employment and trying to study as hard as I can for the GRE. The remainder of my time has been spent burying myself in books. Yesterday I had a group therapy session with my family. It went okay. Everyone is still on there respective side, but I feel like my mom is adjusting more with time. She isn't hostile or angry. She's just sad and worried. Sometimes it doesn't come out right, as it is tense for everyone involved, but she's an amazing person and the best mother I could ask for. It's hard for her to accept and understand everything, but I understand that it's difficult. I just hope things will improve over time. She still thinks I'm deluded and confused, but she is trying to do what she can to adjust and absorb it. Unfortunately, I don't have the answer for that.
Quote from: JLT1 on July 01, 2013, 09:57:11 PM
LtL – Did you and your mother spend a lot of time together, planning your future? Kind of mapping things out???
Not really. My mom always told me that she wants me to follow my heart and do what's best for me. She just doesn't think this is it.
@Jen
I don't think that's a bad question; however, I have tried that. The answer I get is that I don't know if this will really bring me happiness. She thinks that I may rush into something that will destroy my life and make it even harder to find overall happiness. I have told her I am confident in my path, but getting her to believe it is a whole other thing.
Why goes she think you don't know what you want? If your sure I don't see why you would regret it. Plus you have plenty of time to back out
Now she compared me to the guy who took bath salts and ate someone's face off. She thinks I'm crazy and delusional like people who think they are really animals or an object. I'm not taking any hallucinogenics and I have proven to be a sane/lucid individual throughout my life. I'm tired of being told I don't know what I feel or want and that this is all a delusion. I'm tired. I'm just going to give my mom the silent treatment and refuse to talk to her at this point. I honestly think I might just run away and live in my car. My sister might take me in for the short term, so maybe I will ask her for help. Still, I'm doubtful she will take me in, so I'll likely have no where to go. if not I can live in the car or move into a homeless shelter. At this point living at home has become hell, so it may be a preferable situation. Besides she threatened me with the fact that she will not want to see me anymore once I start transitioning and made it clear that my living situation will be altered in some way (either she will make me leave or give me ground rules that I must follow); therfore, it might be all that I can do. I try really hard to understand and I go through points where I try my best to give her the benefit of the doubt, but I just don't know what to do. While I may come across as whiny, you can see from my many posts that I defend my mother and try to understand her pov. But she just doesn't stop. And my sisters don't even interfere to help defend me. I'm all alone in this. I really don't know what to do anymore. Honestly, life sucks and I'm tired of it. I'm transitioning to be happy, but nothing gets better. It's only gotten worse. And the alternative is not worth it. I won't do anything, but I don't even see the point continuing when it's always going to be a living hell regardless.
Stay strong and try to be positive. You know what you want and need to do, but it may take much longer than we think for her to come around. I'd offer you a place to stay but it's like 500 miles away :embarrassed:
Try to stay safe no matter what, and please don't try to live in your car. It's no fun I've done that. We don't want anything to happen to you. I enjoy your posts as do many others. I don't know how much it costs to live where you're at, but maybe one of your friends families would be accepting and let you live there for cheap temporarily if that's an option?
Best Wishes,
Jamie
Yeah when they try to control you like that its time to leave unless your willing to do as they say. You will be much happier in a while once your gone
I agree with Jamie Marie. It is not safe to live in your car or a shelter.
Be patient, it may take a long time for your mom to accept this. You may even need to consider some initial compromise where you still have your home but your transition may take a little longer.
If you move out you may not be able to afford your transition.
Your mom is really struggling with this. Work with her and she may begin to understand, but it may take a long time. She is still your mom.
Stay safe.
Love,
Ciara.
Quote from: Ciara on July 05, 2013, 07:57:47 AM
I agree with Jamie Marie. It is not safe to live in your car or a shelter.
Be patient, it may take a long time for your mom to accept this. You may even need to consider some initial compromise where you still have your home but your transition may take a little longer.
If you move out you may not be able to afford your transition.
Your mom is really struggling with this. Work with her and she may begin to understand, but it may take a long time. She is still your mom.
Stay safe.
Love,
Ciara.
Ciara is right, living in your car or a shelter is out of the question. There are predatory types that will abuse you under those circumstances, I have friends who have experienced those horrors. When I started transition years ago I had to take my HRT and see the endo on the QT and keep a low profile as I gently introduced my S.O. to what was happening so that she could deal with it in little bites. Try that approach, stay safe at home and continue to look for a meaningful occupation.
Shelters can vary on the type and the client
As I grew up not in a very nice way...
I have seen my share...some are long term
Transition houses...but i would get out of that
He'll hole city and maybe some where like mid west
A city of like maybe a million people or so
I stayed in shelters...and told the staff I'm ts on hormones
They don't want to wind up on the news for letting
Clients get raped...so they watched me like a hawk
Of course there is also single room monthly motel .
Rooms with shared bathroom...not glamorous...but
Your own bed your place. .I lved in those for a few years
And of course renting a room from some one in a
House or apartment ....
There is always options ..but my advice get out
Of that city...way to much competiton...
Maybe Colorado...hey!!! Winter ski lodfge for work...
Free foood and a room...wash a few dishes floors
Serve food...get paid and no living expense
Cruise line same Thing....where I work ..remote
Work camp settings...awesome food sheet change weekly
And no stress
Expand your parameters....only you can make it happen..
Things do get better. Remember that. I didn't even think HRT would work and now no one believes I am a guy. Its great.I also have a love life, friends and happiness in my future so things get better. Its worth it. Don't five up.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 08, 2013, 11:48:29 AM
Things do get better. Remember that. I didn't even think HRT would work and now no one believes I am a guy. Its great.I also have a love life, friends and happiness in my future so things get better. Its worth it. Don't five up.
Joanna, I appreciate those kind words. However, I really don't see things getting better anymore. To be honest, I can't imagine a bright future in my life. I'm not looking for pity in saying that. I'm just being honest. I don't have anything going for me at this point, and I can't imagine that will ever change. I have no job, no money, hardly any friends, no love life, and now may lose my family (the only people who accepted and supported me). It would be great to say things will turn around, but the problem isn't my circumstances... its me. If I am brutally honest with myself, I'm the problem. I could blame the economy as the reason no one is hiring me, but shouldn't I have found something by now? I could blame my lack of a love life or friends on others not understanding me or my shyness, but it seems like no one really wants me around. Isn't the problem me again? And now my family has seen my dark side and increasingly wants little to do with me. I don't bring up living in a shelter or my car to be dramatic. I bring it up because that is probably going to be the only place I can go. If my mom doesn't want to be around me while I transition, which she said may be the case, where do I go? I either have to detransition to appease her or go my own way. I can do that, but like I said no one will hire me (because I'm a loser) and without money it is impossible. It may sound like I don't try and am complacent, but you have no idea how many places I have applied to. I would be embarrassed to disclose the amount of applications I have sent out with the incredibly small feedback I have received. It only solidifies how much of a reject loser I am. And it isn't my resume because I have had it checked by others and no one sees anything wrong with it. Nor is it that I am aiming really high. Believe me, I'm not. It's just me. And even if I did get my own place, it would hurt too much to lose my family completely. As I said, they were the only people who accepted me and loved me unconditionally. The only people that I have in my life. Now I feel completely alone. I have no one and know that I will never find others who will accept me. I have two dear friends in my life, but we aren't too close and they could never close the emotional gap that losing my family would leave me. Maybe they will all come around, but it's possible that they won't. It's hard for me to be positive or hopeful with all that in mind. And to be honest, as much as I want to transition, I can only see things getting harder as I continue. If no one wants to hire me, be in a relationship with me, befriend me, or accept me at this point in time, how will they all feel once I start changing and they inevitably know I'm transgender. I only see more rejection in the future. I know it's been hard on my family, but I have to imagine the rest of society will be even more hurtful, hostile and more prone to rejection than those who love me. They should be a cakewalk compared to the rest of the opposition I will face. And knowing that I will have to go through all that opposition alone without any support from family or friends is tough. It's not about the finances as much as I need their emotional support and love through this tough period. I already face enough rejection at this point and know I will have to put up with more as I continue down this path... I can't deal not having their support as well. So, I only see things continuing to get worse than improving.
Having said that, I won't give up. So don't worry about that. I don't want anyone to get scared or become concerned. I will not do anything stupid. To quote Roger Water's of Pink Floyd"
Thought I oughta bare my naked feelings,
Thought I oughta tear the curtain down.
I held the blade in trembling hands
Prepared to make it but just then the phone rang
I never had the nerve to make the final cut."
That's pretty much my feelings on life itself at the moment. I may say hopeless things and sincerely feel that way, but I don't have the "nerve to make the final cut". So no worries, I am here and will remain that way. For better or worse. I just wish there was a way for it to be better even though I no longer believe it will get that way.
LtL I am sorry to hear that things are not going well for you. I wish there was a way that I could help you. I know what it feels like to not have anybody. I know what it is like to feel like you know people, but nobody is close. I know that feeling. I cant comprehend the full totality of your situation. I know it sucks. This is one of those things that is hard to handle and if anybody says it is easy then they are crazy. Sure some people have and easier time of it than others. You and I are not that lucky. We have some nice moments, but overall it sucks a lot. For the record I am horid at cheering people up. I am saying though that when you get kicked down you do have to get back up. It seems to me that you have that fighting spirit in you. That is a good thing. I am sorry do hear about your mother. I too know how much it hurts.
You say that the problem is you, but I can say that for many people here you are one of the nicest people we have ever interacted with. YOU seem to cheer people up. I know that there have been times that you have touch me and you did not know it. I saw things you posted and even though the words of encouragement were not aimed at me I still felt their power. If the jobs are not coming then it does not mean anything is wrong with you. It just means that the job is not right for you.
I hope that you find the answers you are looking for. I also hope that you stay with us. I wont lie some of the things you said scared me to think you might end it. That would not be helpful to you or anybody else.
I just want to say that the rest of the world is not harder than your own family. When your family is not disposed to being supportive, they are the worst of anybody. Most people do... not... care. Most people in fact do not have the capacity to even notice anybody but themselves. Only the most sociopathic will go out of their way to make you feel bad about yourself if they do notice you, and none of those people even will ever say anything that rivals the things your mother has said to you. The only people that have ever discouraged me or made me feel bad about being trans after I came out to them have been my immediate family. All of my friends were very supportive, in fact.
Family members have you wrapped up in their own ego, andI think that is why they react so strongly. They feel your life reflects on theirs—they do not see you as a separate individual exactly, but more like an extension of themselves. That is why, for instance, a family member told me that he didn't want his inlaws (whom I also know fairly well) to know about me because it embarrassed him. So kind of like that, I reflect on him somehow in his mind.
So if you can deal with an unsupportive family, you can deal with anybody. Their rejection hurts the worst, and they usually spew the strongest and most spiteful venom on top of that.
Jen, Bookworm and all of the others have come forth with some of the most thoughtful comments and heartfelt support, If I could summarize it all in a few sentences, I would say that it is painful beyond words to watch your family beat you down while we are all so helpless to do anything to effectively remove you from that hellishly toxic environment, as they systematically destroy your self esteem and pound you into a hole. I cut my family off completely for ten years, never spoke to them or acknowledged their existence. Finally they could stand it no longer, realizing how cruel that they had been they finally apologized. My mom, sister and I had hugs and tears when we finally met again. You need to cut them off before they destroy you honey, it's called tough love!
Have you ever considered it's your family that's holding you back? You say they love you unconditionally but do they? I don't think they do. If they did, they'd support your happiness. Bu it doesn't matter. You have to work to make yourself happy and you need to go out and meet people and network to get work. Sending resumes is not enough. Try harder. Also sooner or later you'll get lucky. You just have to wait.
Just also want to say about getting a job. If you know people that make hiring decisions, you will get a job. I think most people get their jobs this way. If you don't know anybody like that, finding a job and standing out from all the other candidates becomes infinitely harder. You should not blame yourself if you are having a hard time. You seem like the sweetest and most caring person, and I know you would not turn anybody off from choosing you. It is probably that you need to do more to turn them on to it, to stand out more. But actually, if you don't know anybody that can help you get a job, your issue is probably more with your networking.
One thing a lot of people do that's kind of a way to network in a weird way is register with temp agencies and try to do a great job everywhere they go so they may stick on permanently somewhere. There are drawbacks of course, but it's something. Another idea is to look into a govt run employment service in your area. I don't know much about them, but I know somebody that works in that field and she works really hard to help people get jobs and has very good success.
I think we can all agree that the primary thing you need right now is independence and you do need a job for that.
All excellent advice! Having managed a large company at one time, I can attest to the fact that what really gets the attention of a prospective employer is when someone appears show a genuine interest in the company above their own immediate need of a job. "i'm interested in finding out what I could do and how I could fit in to help make this company more profitable!" instead of the usual signals which really say, "I need a job and blah,blah, blah" because that invariably falls on deaf ears. I suppose we could say it's the attitude that gets projected by the job seeker in the first few minutes that makes or breaks the deal.
I stopped counting the number of resumes I sent out when it hit 340. Then, I found my ideal job and I sent them my resume seven times in the first couple weeks of the opening. I got the interview and I got the job.
It will get better. I call it the al bundy theory
So you think I'm a loser? Just because I have a stinking job that I hate, a family that doesn't respect me, and a whole city that curses the day I was born? Well, that may mean loser to you, but let me tell you something. Every morning when I wake up, I know it's not going to get any better until I go back to sleep again. So I get up, have my watered-down Tang and my still-frozen Pop Tart. I get in my car with no upholstery, no gas, and six more payments. To fight traffic just for the privilege of putting cheap shoes onto the cloven hooves of people like you. I'll never play football like I thought I would. I'll never know the touch of a beautiful woman. And I'll never again know the joy of driving without a bag on my head. But I'm not a loser. Because, despite it all, me and every other guy who'll never be what he wanted to be, are still out there being what we don't want to be, forty hours a week, for life. And the fact that I haven't put a gun in my mouth, you pudding of a woman, makes me a winner!
LOI i grew up with married with children....
Miss that show :'( sniffle sniffle
I agree with the others on the fact that you may need to distance yourself from, if not cut yourself out entirely, from your family. If you're not being supported by them, then I don't think that's what one would call an unconditional love. It sounds like your mother's constantly abusing you emotionally, and you should get yourself out as fast as you can.
I know it's easier said than done.
I was kicked out when I was 19 (I'll be 24 in September) because I finally stood up to my abusive father, so I know speaking up for yourself and being intense about how you're the one in the right can cause some serious backlash. I was lucky, though, and two of my close friends helped me and I had a job already, but I sent over 300 applications to get a second one to support myself and only heard back from 2 places. I understand it's difficult.
I was wondering if you could look for someone looking for roommates? If you were looking at graduate school - I'm not sure if your university does this - but usually grad students here have their housing and expenses taken care of through grants/scholarships, usually. Either way, University's usually have people in houses or apartments that need roommates as others graduate or leave, so that could be something you could look into; that's what I ended up doing. I know Delaware is a far cry from New York, but I managed to find a house with 3 bedrooms that was $1k and live with two wonderful people now who've been nothing but supportive (I mean, it's in the ghetto (which isn't the same as where you're from I'm sure), but you gotta do what you gotta do). You could be able to find something like that, maybe? A house/apartment with a bunch of students?
As for not being able to finance it/find a job in time...have you thought about getting a gofundme? That's what I was using when I had issues with my Financial Aid for school. You can use it to raise money for personal reasons (it's like Kickstarter but better imo), so perhaps find out how much rent/deposit would be for the first month in an apartment on your own and continue applying for jobs (my roommate and I have made it a tradition to have a small celebration every time her application mark hits 200...she's having trouble too, and she's a geneticist I promise it's not your fault you can't find anything) while you have the month to get settled in and settled down.
The environment you're in right now is toxic, and that's no good - you need fresh air. Perhaps they'll come around if they have time to mull it over. Especially if they get time to miss you. My family and I aren't on the best terms, but they wanted me to come back after I didn't talk to them for a year (I didn't, but I do occasionally for holidays- mostly because of my mom, so I understand that close bond you're worried about losing).
All the best. I hope things for you improve. Never hesitate to send a PM to me if you need to talk, either.
Quote from: Shantel on July 09, 2013, 05:38:51 PM
All excellent advice! Having managed a large company at one time, I can attest to the fact that what really gets the attention of a prospective employer is when someone appears show a genuine interest in the company above their own immediate need of a job. "i'm interested in finding out what I could do and how I could fit in to help make this company more profitable!" instead of the usual signals which really say, "I need a job and blah,blah, blah" because that invariably falls on deaf ears. I suppose we could say it's the attitude that gets projected by the job seeker in the first few minutes that makes or breaks the deal.
Precisely.
Let me preface this post by explaining that my mother is one of the best people I know. You only see her in this one particular context. Right now she is scared, worried and distraught over everything that is occurring. She truly is a wonderful person, but she isn't showing her best side at this time. We all have our moments and we can't judge an a persons entire character based on a few occurrences. Believe me, she is one of the greatest people I know and even her current rejection will not destroy the amazing moments and the caring image I hold of her.
Today my mom and I talked further about everything. The past few days we have been silent with one another. She goes to see her boyfriend and I'm off doing my own things. Well I had therapy today, so my mom wanted to find out everything that happened. It ended with me crying for 20 minutes while my mom explained that I won't ever pass. She wasn't doing it to hurt me, she was very sad to see me cry, but she wanted me to face the reality that I will never pass as female. I guess the hardest part about it is that she is probably right. In any event, we talked further after I stopped crying and she told me that she wants me to leave the house once I start having noticeable changes. She believes it will be better for the both of us emotionally to be separated. Problem is I can't help but feel like I'm being tossed aside by my family. Worst of all, I have no ability to leave finacially. I'm still trying to get out, but it isn't easy. I will work hard to find a way to afford my own place, but I have no idea how I can do it. I hate the idea of going on any temporary assistance as I don't want any handouts. Yet, I feel like that might be the only way for me to get my start. Worst comes to worst I could probably live in my car for a month or so. Still, I probably have another 2 or 3 months before that happens. So I do have time to turn it all around. As of now, my mom's heart is destroyed and she doesn't know what to do. I have stopped talking to her after that confrontation but know she is trying to talk to me and turn things around. She even told me that she would never kick me with tears in her eyes, but that was a half an hour after she told me she wanted me to leave once I start physically changing. I wish it were all more easy.
Again, my mom is a great person, so please don't be harsh on her. If you knew her, you would know what an amazing woman she is. It's just a tough time for all of us, so don't judge her solely on these events. I just want and need to vent and unfortunately that doesn't show any of us in our best light.
Quote from: JLT1 on July 09, 2013, 06:08:48 PM
I stopped counting the number of resumes I sent out when it hit 340. Then, I found my ideal job and I sent them my resume seven times in the first couple weeks of the opening. I got the interview and I got the job.
Thank you. This gives me hope.
Quote from: Shantel on July 09, 2013, 05:38:51 PM
All excellent advice! Having managed a large company at one time, I can attest to the fact that what really gets the attention of a prospective employer is when someone appears show a genuine interest in the company above their own immediate need of a job. "i'm interested in finding out what I could do and how I could fit in to help make this company more profitable!" instead of the usual signals which really say, "I need a job and blah,blah, blah" because that invariably falls on deaf ears. I suppose we could say it's the attitude that gets projected by the job seeker in the first few minutes that makes or breaks the deal.
I agree. I always do well on interviews. The problem is getting the chance to be interviewed. I would say 80% of my interviews have a success ratio. Unfortunately, it's very rare for me to get the actual interview itself.
Quote from: Jen on July 09, 2013, 03:41:27 PM
Just also want to say about getting a job. If you know people that make hiring decisions, you will get a job. I think most people get their jobs this way. If you don't know anybody like that, finding a job and standing out from all the other candidates becomes infinitely harder. You should not blame yourself if you are having a hard time. You seem like the sweetest and most caring person, and I know you would not turn anybody off from choosing you. It is probably that you need to do more to turn them on to it, to stand out more. But actually, if you don't know anybody that can help you get a job, your issue is probably more with your networking.
One thing a lot of people do that's kind of a way to network in a weird way is register with temp agencies and try to do a great job everywhere they go so they may stick on permanently somewhere. There are drawbacks of course, but it's something. Another idea is to look into a govt run employment service in your area. I don't know much about them, but I know somebody that works in that field and she works really hard to help people get jobs and has very good success.
I think we can all agree that the primary thing you need right now is independence and you do need a job for that.
I know that networking has it's value. Unfortunately, that hasn't worked to well for me. I was told at my last job that they would be able to help me find something else after a particular period, as this was a temp position. Let's just say once I served their purpose, they no longer were able to guarantee anything. I have some great recommendations that many would love to have, but no one was able to really help me out. I can't get into the particulars for privacy reasons, but it's the nature of the field that I have experience in. Yet, I can't get mad at anyone as it is the nature of the game.
I'm so sorry your having to go through this. It sucks but sometimes the people we care about can react this way to you like this. You care about your mom and that makes you such a sweetheart so I won't touch that subject but consider maybe getting a student loan and going to like community college or university
If she truly is as an amazing of a person as you say (and I have no doubt that you are right), she will come around and love/accept you no matter what.
It's something every amazing person possesses: unconditional love for their children.
The term "unconditional love" keeps cropping up in this conversation. Unconditional love by a parent is only evident when the parent loves the child regardless of the things that they do contrary to their will. They accept that their child has a will and a life of their own and then releases that child to live their life as they wish. Unconditional love is the antithesis of control!
Quote from: Shantel on July 13, 2013, 08:59:36 PM
The term "unconditional love" keeps cropping up in this conversation. Unconditional love by a parent is only evident when the parent loves the child regardless of the things that they do contrary to their will. They accept that their child has a will and a life of their own and then releases that child to live their life as they wish. Unconditional love is the antithesis of control!
Exactly. If someone loves you unconditionally, then they accept you no matter what. Not if you do this but don't do that...Sorry, words have meaning. That being said. I don't think you should live on the street. No offens LTL but you don't seem the type.The street is unforgiving. Have you considered lowering your dose to stop any changes or stopping for now? I'm not saying you should but the thought must have crossed your mind. Retreat is not defeat. You're young. You have time. You have to do what is best.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 14, 2013, 01:23:34 AM
Exactly. If someone loves you unconditionally, then they accept you no matter what. Not if you do this but don't do that...Sorry, words have meaning. That being said. I don't think you should live on the street. No offens LTL but you don't seem the type.The street is unforgiving. Have you considered lowering your dose to stop any changes or stopping for now? I'm not saying you should but the thought must have crossed your mind. Retreat is not defeat. You're young. You have time. You have to do what is best.
She's right!
But I still contend, I think your mother will likely come around if you want it badly enough and if you use some loving ingenuity to speed things along by being careful and respectful towards her. You're probably doing everything exactly as you should. You know your mother better than any of us do. And, most importantly, you still care about her- so so much = the biggest takeaway from this thread for me.
And when it does finally happen and she finally accepts you, it will be beautiful in so many ways.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 14, 2013, 01:23:34 AM
Exactly. If someone loves you unconditionally, then they accept you no matter what. Not if you do this but don't do that...Sorry, words have meaning. That being said. I don't think you should live on the street. No offens LTL but you don't seem the type.The street is unforgiving. Have you considered lowering your dose to stop any changes or stopping for now? I'm not saying you should but the thought must have crossed your mind. Retreat is not defeat. You're young. You have time. You have to do what is best.
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 14, 2013, 01:33:21 AM
She's right!
But I still contend, I think your mother will likely come around if you want it badly enough and if you use some loving ingenuity to speed things along by being careful and respectful towards her. You're probably doing everything exactly as you should. You know your mother better than any of us do. And, most importantly, you still care about her- so so much = the biggest takeaway from this thread for me.
And when it does finally happen and she finally accepts you, it will be beautiful in so many ways.
I agree completely with Joanna and Jenny on all counts and based on all the comments I have seen on this thread and a few similar ones focused on relationships, I put my thoughts on the subject into a separate post: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,144676.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,144676.0.html)
LtL, I guess I was thinking very strongly of you when I suggested patience can be a great virtue to develop when you want to get true acceptance from those who are close to you. In any case, I can say without any doubt that it has served me well....
If you keep your wits and allow time to it's work, you'll get where you want to go.
Bises
Donna
Quote from: Tristan on July 11, 2013, 07:45:20 PM
I'm so sorry your having to go through this. It sucks but sometimes the people we care about can react this way to you like this. You care about your mom and that makes you such a sweetheart so I won't touch that subject but consider maybe getting a student loan and going to like community college or university
I already have my bachelor's. Going to a community college isn't in my future. I do plan on going to grad school, but that will be a year from now. So getting a loan wouldn't be possible. Plus, I don't really look forward to those 6.8% interest rates (thank you congress).
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 13, 2013, 08:02:10 PM
If she truly is as an amazing of a person as you say (and I have no doubt that you are right), she will come around and love/accept you no matter what.
It's something every amazing person possesses: unconditional love for their children.
That's exactly what I'm hoping for.
Quote from: Shantel on July 13, 2013, 08:59:36 PM
The term "unconditional love" keeps cropping up in this conversation. Unconditional love by a parent is only evident when the parent loves the child regardless of the things that they do contrary to their will. They accept that their child has a will and a life of their own and then releases that child to live their life as they wish. Unconditional love is the antithesis of control!
I know what you mean Shantel. But if you knew my mom, you would excuse some of her actions. She is just afraid I'm destroying my life. She wants me to have an easy and happy life. Now she fears I will have a really tough path to follow. She was crying recently about how she wants to protect from all the horrible things that can occur and all the nasty people who may discriminate or abuse me, but she can't. At the end of the day, she just wants me to have a good life and feels this will prevent me from having one. Sometimes that leads her into trying to control what I do. She does love me unconditionally, but she can't find a way to support this at this moment in time. It's true that their is some selfish intent behind her actions as she doesn't want things to change; however, her main fear is about me having a very rough life. Hopefully, she will come around.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 14, 2013, 01:23:34 AM
Exactly. If someone loves you unconditionally, then they accept you no matter what. Not if you do this but don't do that...Sorry, words have meaning. That being said. I don't think you should live on the street. No offens LTL but you don't seem the type.The street is unforgiving. Have you considered lowering your dose to stop any changes or stopping for now? I'm not saying you should but the thought must have crossed your mind. Retreat is not defeat. You're young. You have time. You have to do what is best.
I can't imagine stopping anytime soon. I really don't want to delay my transition again. I've waited long enough for this. Ideally, it's the perfect time to do it. I don't know what I'll do if I can't live at home, but I'll find a way. My mom has been more sensitive about things the past few days, so maybe it will be okay. She told me she would never leave me out in the cold, but she doesn't want to be around to witness the daily changes. Where that will take us? I don't know. And hey, I could live in the streets. I'm tough like that. Okay, not really,lol.
Quote from: Donna Elvira on July 14, 2013, 02:45:43 PM
I agree completely with Joanna and Jenny on all counts and based on all the comments I have seen on this thread and a few similar ones focused on relationships, I put my thoughts on the subject into a separate post: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,144676.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,144676.0.html)
LtL, I guess I was thinking very strongly of you when I suggested patience can be a great virtue to develop when you want to get true acceptance from those who are close to you. In any case, I can say without any doubt that it has served me well....
If you keep your wits and allow time to it's work, you'll get where you want to go.
Bises
Donna
This is what I'm counting on. It's just been an emotional mess this past month. I never know what my family will say or how they will choose to react on a particular day. Like my sister who was initially accepting does things like call my therapist (who is a transwoman) he and him. When I ask her not to do that, she corrects me and says that "he was a guy". This upsets me because they met her and saw that she is living as a girl full time. They all have the mentality that I'm the one who needs to be educated and learn to come around on this issue, not them. Sometimes there tactics to get their way on that is very difficult to handle. However, I hope you are right about them coming around.
Quote from: learningtolive on July 14, 2013, 03:26:19 PM
I can't imagine stopping anytime soon. I really don't want to delay my transition again. I've waited long enough for this. Ideally, it's the perfect time to do it. I don't know what I'll do if I can't live at home, but I'll find a way. My mom has been more sensitive about things the past few days, so maybe it will be okay. She told me she would never leave me out in the cold, but she doesn't want to be around to witness the daily changes. Where that will take us? I don't know. And hey, I could live in the streets. I'm tough like that. Okay, not really,lol.
Like my sister who was initially accepting does things like call my therapist (who is a transwoman) he and him. When I ask her not to do that, she corrects me and says that "he was a guy". This upsets me because they met her and saw that she is living as a girl full time. They all have the mentality that I'm the one who needs to be educated and learn to come around on this issue, not them. Sometimes there tactics to get their way on that is very difficult to handle. However, I hope you are right about them coming around.
Hi again LtL,
Not sure I agree with you on a couple of the things you say here. To the extent that you are not financially independent and that those who support you materially are not OK for now with your transition, realistically, it can hardly be the "perfect time" to do it and by what standard can you say "you have waited long enough to do this?". To understand my question, what woud you say if HRT was not available at all as was the case when many of us were your age?
Also, it's hard to see what you would have to gain by going to live on the streets. Would that get you where you want to go any faster than what you are doing now? By the way, I ran away from home when I was eighteen and took years to recover from that so I am talking from experience...
The other thing that I personnally don't think is worth fighting over is pronouns, the only exception being when the wrong pronoun is used in public when I am presenting as a woman. Even my wife, who has been as supportive in all of this as I could have hoped for, still regularly refers to me as "he" when talking about me with third parties. I am sure this will stop when I am fully installed in my life as a woman but for now don't think it is worth making an issue of.
Maybe I'm too laid back about this sort of stuff but one thing life teaches you is to choose your battles. They are not all worth fighting!
Warm regards.
Donna
[quote author=Donna Elvira link=topic=143167.msg1181911#msg1181911 date=1373834987
The other thing that I personnally don't think is worth fighting over is pronouns, the only exception being when the wrong pronoun is used in public when I am presenting as a woman. Even my wife, who has been as supportive in all of this as I could have hoped for, still regularly refers to me as "he" when talking about me with third parties. I am sure this will stop when I am fully installed in my life as a woman but for now don't think it is worth making an issue of.
Maybe I'm too laid back about this sort of stuff but one thing life teaches you is to choose your battles. They are not all worth fighting!
Warm regards.
Donna
[/quote]
I agree 100 percent. I never fight over pronouns. It simply doesn't matter. My BF referred to me as he at the bank, it wasn't accidental and I am a he legally on my ID, so he pretty much had to. And if you pass, people will correct you. The bank teller corrected him and said "well SHE can cash her check at the ATM." I simply think it is not worth the hassle to fight that battle and people will come around when they do. At most, I simply go "you mean she." That's it. And I leave it at that.
That being said LTL it sounds like they are getting less accepting not more. I really feel for you but I think you need to seriously consider the implications of living on the streets. How will you shower? Where will you sleep? How will you get meds?
If you have $100 a week you can get a room. It won't be in the best part of town, but you will have shelter. Maybe your mom will pay for your apartment if she doesn't want you there or just a cheap room.
Quote from: Donna Elvira on July 14, 2013, 03:49:47 PM
Hi again LtL,
Not sure I agree with you on a couple of the things you say here. To the extent that you are not financially independent and that those who support you materially are not OK for now with your transition, realistically, it can hardly be the "perfect time" to do it and by what standard can you say "you have waited long enough to do this?". To understand my question, what woud you say if HRT was not available at all as was the case when many of us were your age?
Also, it's hard to see what you would have to gain by going to live on the streets. Would that get you where you want to go any faster than what you are doing now? By the way, I ran away from home when I was eighteen and took years to recover from that so I am talking from experience...
The other thing that I personnally don't think is worth fighting over is pronouns, the only exception being when the wrong pronoun is used in public when I am presenting as a woman. Even my wife, who has been as supportive in all of this as I could have hoped for, still regularly refers to me as "he" when talking about me with third parties. I am sure this will stop when I am fully installed in my life as a woman but for now don't think it is worth making an issue of.
Maybe I'm too laid back about this sort of stuff but one thing life teaches you is to choose your battles. They are not all worth fighting!
Warm regards.
Donna
I don't even bring up the pronouns for myself. I realize that takes time. I never asked for them to refer to me as anything different. My therapist, however, has fully transitioned as did all the other people they refer to as he or him. I think that's very disrespectful no to try and respect the desires of others esspecially once they have fully transitioned. They can say what they want about me, but have some respect for others.
I have to transition now. I can't tell you how depressed I am over this issue. Some people have different ways to cope with GID. In my case, I don't know if I can cope with it much longer. I respect those who lived with it for years and decided they had to do it when they got older, but I don't see myself lasting like this much longer. I'm not transitioning by choice or by will. I honestly feel I have to do this. Delaying it would be horrific for me.
I don't believe I will be on the streets. Worse comes to worse I can live in my car for a temporary period and get assistance for initial period. I could also find a shelter for a temporary period. But that's the very last resort. I am working really really hard to find employment so I don't think this will be a huge problem and probably can avoid that scenario. I don't know how I can afford rent and everything all together but I will have to find some way of doing so come hell or high water. Besides, while my mom wants me to leave the house soon, I probably have a few months before it gets to that point. And that is still "if". She never said she will never leave me in the cold. She does believe she can't handle seeing the changes and will need to be away from me when it starts becoming noticeable, but she has said that she won't leave me in the cold. I don't know where that will take us, but time will tell. And I don't know if that will lead us to a temporary family separation or a full time thing. It's still too early for me to know where everyone stands as people say different things at different times.
Nonetheless, I have some time to turn around my fortune and I have been applying like crazy. So I am not down and out yet.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 14, 2013, 05:02:24 PM
[quote author=Donna Elvira link=topic=143167.msg1181911#msg1181911 date=1373834987
The other thing that I personnally don't think is worth fighting over is pronouns, the only exception being when the wrong pronoun is used in public when I am presenting as a woman. Even my wife, who has been as supportive in all of this as I could have hoped for, still regularly refers to me as "he" when talking about me with third parties. I am sure this will stop when I am fully installed in my life as a woman but for now don't think it is worth making an issue of.
Maybe I'm too laid back about this sort of stuff but one thing life teaches you is to choose your battles. They are not all worth fighting!
Warm regards.
Donna
I agree 100 percent. I never fight over pronouns. It simply doesn't matter. My BF referred to me as he at the bank, it wasn't accidental and I am a he legally on my ID, so he pretty much had to. And if you pass, people will correct you. The bank teller corrected him and said "well SHE can cash her check at the ATM." I simply think it is not worth the hassle to fight that battle and people will come around when they do. At most, I simply go "you mean she." That's it. And I leave it at that.
That being said LTL it sounds like they are getting less accepting not more. I really feel for you but I think you need to seriously consider the implications of living on the streets. How will you shower? Where will you sleep? How will you get meds?
If you have $100 a week you can get a room. It won't be in the best part of town, but you will have shelter. Maybe your mom will pay for your apartment if she doesn't want you there or just a cheap room.
I suppose there are places where rent can be that cheap, but not in the area where I live. Though I could always relocate if need be. I will probably look into getting a place with a roomate. I feel awkward about transitioning with a roomate, but maybe I can find an lgbt community member to split rent with. Chances are I will be safer with one of them. I'm sure I will think of something and improvise when the time comes. For now, I 'm just trying to find something that will allow me to sustain myself and pay for rent on my own. If that can't work, well then it's time for plan b or c. I have always worked hard and made many of my dreams come true. While I am down now, I am not going to turn down my ultimate goal.
Without a job tying you down, relocation is a lot easier. I know moving somewhere where you don't have a support system can be very difficult, but maybe you wouldn't have to go too far to find a place that has a more reasonable cost of living? If you would be willing to do that it would also expand your set of potential employers, which is another benefit potentially.
Having read things you have written here and elsewhere, I really feel like you understand your situation very well, all the risks you face, your own fragility, and the dynamics of your personal relationships, which is remarkable given your age and that you don't have the benefit of hindsight. I don't have a ton of extra advice or anything, I know you will manage all the risks and your relationships the best way you can. I just think you need a little luck and I'm pulling for you.
Well, a few minutes ago I got off the phone with one of my sisters. She has her own place and I discussed if it would be possible for me to move in once I get kicked out provided I pay her some rent money that I'd be able to afford. She didn't say no and said we would have to talk about it, but I could tell she wasn't happy about that prospect. When I started talking about living in my car, she didn't say anything further about living with her. She said you could probably do it for three months in the summer, but that she didn't advise me doing it at all. Nonetheless, I wasn't getting the vibe that she would allow me to stay with her even if I paid rent. So I don't really think that will be an avenue I could try. Maybe I misread her, but I wouldn't feel right about staying at her place if it was a hassle for her. So I think I will need to forget about that option. I then talked to my other sister, the one who said she'd defend me if my mom threatened to kick me out, and she told me that she sees my mom's point of view about wanting me to leave. She said she would say something on my behalf, but that she understands where my mom is coming from. This really hurts because I feel like no support and only opposition. If the situation where reversed, I would support my sister and fight for her. I've always defended her when she needed it. And if I had a place like my other sister did I would be willing to help her out for a short period if she was going to be kicked out. Yeah, she didn't say no, but I would have said yes without hesitation. How hard is it for people to be on my side just a little. Honestly, I love my family and want to give it time, but I sometimes I really don't think I want to be around them anymore or even talk to them. I feel like I am being pushed away to a point where I am done. I feel sick by the lack of support and how they expect me to understand their opposition or lack of sympathy to how much I'm struggling both financially and emotionally. I guess that is further incentive for me to get some independence.
Quote from: Jen on July 14, 2013, 06:17:53 PM
Without a job tying you down, relocation is a lot easier. I know moving somewhere where you don't have a support system can be very difficult, but maybe you wouldn't have to go too far to find a place that has a more reasonable cost of living? If you would be willing to do that it would also expand your set of potential employers, which is another benefit potentially.
Having read things you have written here and elsewhere, I really feel like you understand your situation very well, all the risks you face, your own fragility, and the dynamics of your personal relationships, which is remarkable given your age and that you don't have the benefit of hindsight. I don't have a ton of extra advice or anything, I know you will manage all the risks and your relationships the best way you can. I just think you need a little luck and I'm pulling for you.
I could probably move into a cheap place in the city, but it depends. I already have been applying for job within a two hour distance zone, so I would have to travel far if I want to widen my pool of potential employers. I think I would have to move out of state and find something outside of NY. I guess Jersey or the surrounding areas aren't too bad. I wish I could move to Boston. It's my dream to live there. Sucks it's so expensive like my part of NY.
You are planning on going to graduate school. What are your top 5 (or even 10) choices? Perhaps you could open up your job search to include places like that. Even if that were to be away from your family for a while....
Quote from: JLT1 on July 14, 2013, 07:56:42 PM
You are planning on going to graduate school. What are your top 5 (or even 10) choices? Perhaps you could open up your job search to include places like that. Even if that were to be away from your family for a while....
I'm aiming fairly high, but I have NYU and Columbia on my list in NY. I don't know if I could make my out of state choices work right now. We'll see. I have applied for research positions, but there are very few available in the social sciences and usually they require a masters degree. I only have a bachelor's right now. I have applied for desk work at both of those schools, but I haven't heard back from any of them. Believe me, I have tried pretty much every option available to me except retail. I have been offered things during my search, but I foolishly turned some of them down. One job wanted me to work 80 hours a week, not including travel. It was a good title and payed all right, but it would have killed me. Warning to any of the young girls and boys, stay away from any social science degree unless you are certain know what you want to do with it. And be realistic because not everything is possible. A degree and a great academic background will only get you so far (often that is nowhere). Many positions have further requirements that aren't always discussed and it comes down to who you know and whether they are willing to help you. My dream is to be a professor so it makes sense for me to have gotten the degree I have, but the in between is horrendous.
Quote from: learningtolive on July 14, 2013, 11:20:07 PM
I'm aiming fairly high, but I have NYU and Columbia on my list in NY. I don't know if I could make my out of state choices work right now. We'll see. I have applied for research positions, but there are very few available in the social sciences and usually they require a masters degree. I only have a bachelor's right now. I have applied for desk work at both of those schools, but I haven't heard back from any of them. Believe me, I have tried pretty much every option available to me except retail. I have been offered things during my search, but I foolishly turned some of them down. One job wanted me to work 80 hours a week, not including travel. It was a good title and payed all right, but it would have killed me. Warning to any of the young girls and boys, stay away from any social science degree unless you are certain know what you want to do with it. And be realistic because not everything is possible. A degree and a great academic background will only get you so far (often that is nowhere). Many positions have further requirements that aren't always discussed and it comes down to who you know and whether they are willing to help you. My dream is to be a professor so it makes sense for me to have gotten the degree I have, but the in between is horrendous.
You could always come into nursing? Good pay and hours
Are you trying/wanting/going to transition before you go to graduate school? So that you are female when you start that process? I know that a good school for you MS can lead to a good school for your PhD and from there, a good teaching position. Being a woman when you start could keep what is an already difficult road a little smoother as opposed to transitioning while in graduate school.
Quote from: JLT1 on July 15, 2013, 11:27:36 AM
Are you trying/wanting/going to transition before you go to graduate school? So that you are female when you start that process? I know that a good school for you MS can lead to a good school for your PhD and from there, a good teaching position. Being a woman when you start could keep what is an already difficult road a little smoother as opposed to transitioning while in graduate school.
Well, I hope to be full time by the time I go to school. I'm trying to go directly into a ph.d program because there is a better chance for funding and stipends. We'll see if that works. But yeah, I probably will be full time so it should be okay.
Quote from: Tristan on July 15, 2013, 08:45:09 AM
You could always come into nursing? Good pay and hours
Eh... my family has so many connections in the medical field. It's not my thing. Besides, I don't have the time to try and become an lpn or Rn at this point in time. I already invested enough time in college at the undergraduate level.
WHINY ALERT
It's been very frustrating. I don't know how others deal with this, but not having any support and only facing opposition wears down on you. My whole family is done with me and I really don't have any acquaintances to talk to or anything without annoying them with my issues. I feel like I'm totally alone and no one cares or understands how difficult this all is for me. The prospect of facing this all alone is really hard. I realize it isn't easy on my family either, but they never take my feelings into account. And worst while I try to just talk with my family for some comfort or not to feel isolated through this process everything becomes so cold. I get that my family is annoyed with me, but it shouldn't always be like this. I feel like like I'm just a big walking burden to everyone I know and no one wants me around. At this point, this forum is about all I have. That's why the whole getting kicked out thing bothers me most. I can pick myself up one way or another, but losing the only emotional support I ever had is tough. I hate to admit this, but I'm a total loser. Everyone has had it with me and I can't blame them. In a way, I brought this upon myself. I shouldn't have sprung this on my family so quickly and I shouldn't have been as emotionally needy with the acquaintances that I had. I have burnt everyone out with my issues and it is my fault when it is all said and done. Now I am totally alone to face this whole transition process with and I'm very scared.
Sorry to be whiny, but I have been in a dark place and need to get it out someway. I can't keep it bottled up and don't know what else to do but scream it out here on this thread. Everything with my family has been clouding my judgement and putting a lot of emotional stress. And it doesn't help that the hormones have been making me go from one emotional extreme to the next at the drop of the hat. I feel like hrt is making me bipolar in some ways,lol. Nonetheless, thank you for listening to me whine.
Under the circumstances, I think a little whininess is completely understandable. I certainly don't blame you. Vent all you need to.
Quote from: learningtolive on July 15, 2013, 05:43:48 PM
WHINY ALERT
It's been very frustrating. I don't know how others deal with this, but not having any support and only facing opposition wears down on you. My whole family is done with me and I really don't have any acquaintances to talk to or anything without annoying them with my issues. I feel like I'm totally alone and no one cares or understands how difficult this all is for me. The prospect of facing this all alone is really hard. I realize it isn't easy on my family either, but they never take my feelings into account. And worst while I try to just talk with my family for some comfort or not to feel isolated through this process everything becomes so cold. I get that my family is annoyed with me, but it shouldn't always be like this. I feel like like I'm just a big walking burden to everyone I know and no one wants me around. At this point, this forum is about all I have. That's why the whole getting kicked out thing bothers me most. I can pick myself up one way or another, but losing the only emotional support I ever had is tough. I hate to admit this, but I'm a total loser. Everyone has had it with me and I can't blame them. In a way, I brought this upon myself. I shouldn't have sprung this on my family so quickly and I shouldn't have been as emotionally needy with the acquaintances that I had. I have burnt everyone out with my issues and it is my fault when it is all said and done. Now I am totally alone to face this whole transition process with and I'm very scared.
Sorry to be whiny, but I have been in a dark place and need to get it out someway. I can't keep it bottled up and don't know what else to do but scream it out here on this thread. Everything with my family has been clouding my judgement and putting a lot of emotional stress. And it doesn't help that the hormones have been making me go from one emotional extreme to the next at the drop of the hat. I feel like hrt is making me bipolar in some ways,lol. Nonetheless, thank you for listening to me whine.
I know what your going through and I'm not just saying that to be nice either. I really have been what your going through right now. Of coarse every family situation is different and your family might not respond in the same way mine has. But eventually once the shock wears off and things calm down it should get better for you. And while you may never get the full acceptance you want you may get some support so don't give up hope. Btw your not a loser negative thinking is not going to get you through this time. As hard as it is you must stay positive and try to focus your mind on not where your at now in life. But where you'll be five to ten years from now. :)
When I told my sister, her first reaction was to give me reasons this might have happened. She never gave me a minute of grief (my brother has never said one word one way or the other). My sister knew of several medical reason, also talking about my one year older sibling who was a hermaphrodite, birth certificate said female, death certificate said male.
So today was a fun day in general.
I pretty much have decided that I will be cutting of normal relations with my family temporarily. Even if we live together for the time being, I don't think we should be speaking with one another unless it's necessary. I'm tired of being confronted and insulted. I get told on a daily basis that I will never pass and I am manly. You would think making me cry a zillion times would get it through to them that I don't need to hear this.
In any event, I really don't want to continue a relationship like this. i understand things take time and patience is required; however, they don't even try to understand and come around to my perspective. I don't see this improving at all. It's not hostile anymore, but it's a ridiculous passive aggressive control facade they put on. They tell me that I should be understanding about them wanting me to leave the house and not see me while I transition. I'm told I'm selfish and wrong for letting this hurt me. I'm sorry but this is just pure emotional abuse. Oh, you're not kicking me out? I'm putting words in your mouth? You are just asking me to either stop transitioning or be kind enough to leave the house and cease seeing them regularly once the changes begin to become noticeable to them. Totally different from being kicked out. Not a semantics game at all. I get they are hurting, but they don't even see how difficult this is for me. Is it really odd for me to feel hurt that they are asking me to leave and cease frequent contact with them? How does one not see this? And yeah, telling me that I will never pass and will look like a man in a dress is not supposed to be hurtful? I get that's what they believe, but they have seen me cry over this and they continuously point out how non passable I am. Is that really the right way to treat someone going through a transition? So at this point I'm going to do what I can to leave. It sucks, but what can I do.
How long do you guys think I have until the changes become noticeable to my family. I have been on estradiol for a month, but it's a low starting dose. Do you think I can stay under cover for at least 3 months? Maybe a little more? Hopefully I can get myself up and out within that time frame.
It sounds like you are doing the right thing by removing yourself from the situation while also trying to not mirror their abusive behavior. You're making the best of a very difficult situation and I really admire your approach.
There are lots of posts about people's experience with how long you can mask the changes. I have known lots of trans people and honestly some of them have gone for a year or more without anyone noticing. Also, the changes are typically quite slow - so there's a chance that your family might not notice if you are seeing them regularly (just like when someone gradually loses or gains weight it's not very noticeable to those who see them every day).
At three months the changes were starting to be a little noticeable to me, but honestly people around me wouldn't have noticed if I didn't say anything. I personally feel I could have gone over six months before my breast growth started to get noticed. Every person varies though and some people see faster growth. When people really took notice is when I started wearing dresses :) Until then I grew out my hair, was on HRT, colored my hair, and even wore nail polish and people still just thought I was being kinda weird but people didn't know I was transitioning. :) You might have a similar experience.
Good luck girl! It's an amazing journey, even though it can be really difficult through parts of it.
Well I am told that transition is a little selfish but thought life there are times you need to be a little selfish and do stuff for yourself to in this case be yourself ( true self)
I am so so happy you have come to this conclusion LTL! You deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. Whether or not they agree with you just being yourself and living an authentic true life, there is zero justification for their treatment of you. I remember when you first came out to your sisters and they said they would support and help you. Even stick up for you if your mother didn't come around right away. And what did they do? They reneged on their words. They not only completely betrayed you, they started actively abusing you. THAT IS WRONG.
You are doing the right thing in creating distance from them and you. You need to do this in order to survive. There is only so much abuse one person can take and I worry that you will either stop transitioning and put it off for an indefinite period of time or do something worse. Thank God you made this choice. Possibly, in the long run, it will help them see things the right way. The right way is supporting you. That is love. Or at the very least, at least stop hurting you. I know in my situation by staying at my BF's for two weeks my mom is being nicer to me.
But I started wearing things on the make side of androgynous. But I also talked to my mom about dresses and tops and different styles of wedding dresses and it was an awesome conversation and she even said I should become a beauty editor. So that is def progress. So things can change. However the worst thing my mom ever said to me was I look strange in makeup (but that was at 1 month HRT) and she called me princess. Hardly bad stuff. It was more her tone.
Also, I know people say transition is selfish. That may be true for someone older with kids and stuff because that is a huge repsonsibility and you are supposed to put your kids before you. So it is your mom who is being selfish. We are both young and single and childless so I don't see how transition to our true selves is even remotely selfish. Is it really so selfish just being honest? I think not.
You are doing the right thing L2L, I'm proud of you for coming to the place where you are saying enough! You have done all you could at your end and it's your time to get a life now. In three months your development will be minimal on low dose estrogen, you will have plenty of time to accomplish what you need to. You have the blessings and caring thoughts from all of us dear!
I noticed slight changes within the first month or two, but if they see you every day it will take longer for them to perceive the incremental changes occuring than the big chunks of changes the rest of the world, that sees you only occasionally, will see. With the low dosage you should have plenty of time. It's hard for me to tell you because my appearance didn't change that much at all and I know that is atypical.
Well it's good to know I should have some time before I have to leave. It's good to have some breathing room. Plus, I'm secretly hoping that my distancing myself from them and my cold shoulder attitude will make them more likely to come around. That way I won't have to leave. But we will see.
Nonetheless, pending my blood work results,my dosage of estradiol should be doubled and I will start spiro as well. Then I will be reducing my timeframe a little more, but I bet I can still get away with at least another 3 months. Still that depends on whether my blood work results come back with normal hemoglobin rates. If it's too high, I need to see a hemotologist until I can increase my estradiol dose. For some reason I am vegetarian with high hemoglobin. Doesn't make sense. I'm hoping my last results were skewed due to dehydration. I guess time will tell.
Honestly, given how your mother reacted the last time you stopped talking to her, if anything was going to work, that's probably it. Hard to know though.
Well, I figure I would give everyone a quick update on how things are going. As of now, I really haven't been speaking with most of my family. It's a little weird, but I feel better even if I'm a little lonely. I have been talking somewhat with my mom, but it is more small talk than anything. She got sick with bronchitis, so I couldn't maintain being mad when she isn't the best condition. So we have been speaking to some degree. There hasn't been hostility and things have gotten a little better. Still, I don't think anything has really changed. She is where she is, and I am where I am. However, she hasn't brought up my transition to me; therefore, I guess that is a small improvement. I even brought up my endo appointment/blood work and she didn't say anything negative to me. But it still isn't good. I went on her computer the other day and unintentionally saw her history. She had a bunch of search results for "how to legally stop your child from transitioning' and ways to force a transition to stop. So even though she isn't confronting me about it, she has plans to get me to stop. This sucks because I was starting to get up my hopes that maybe she would come around, and I would be able to stay at home. Maybe I will. She tells me she prefers me to leave once the changes start for her own emotional stability, but that she would never kick me out. Perhaps in time things will change. For now, I am trying to respect her wishes and trying to find something, but all I get is rejection letters or the usual scenario of a non reply. It's all frustrating. I just wish I had some knowledge on what the next few months hold for me. Sorry for the rambling message, but I wanted to share my current situation and you know how much I like to ramble,lol.
I'm glad that aren't bothering you as much. Just watch your behavior and what you say or do around them. And what you write anywhere. They can use that against you if they want to use psychiatric reasons against you. If your state is like mine all they really need is two witnesses that will sign a sworn affidavit with a little proof your unfit in some way and the judge or magistrate to sign it and the police can come get you for a 72 hour hold and get you on a psychiatric contract from there. That's what I'm still on now and someone I know is still responsible for me until I can finish the contract. I have herd if this method being used one 2 trans people in there early 20s in Chicago and one in Georgia so just be aware
Quote from: Tristan on July 23, 2013, 07:39:16 PM
I'm glad that aren't bothering you as much. Just watch your behavior and what you say or do around them. And what you write anywhere. They can use that against you if they want to use psychiatric reasons against you. If your state is like mine all they really need is two witnesses that will sign a sworn affidavit with a little proof your unfit in some way and the judge or magistrate to sign it and the police can come get you for a 72 hour hold and get you on a psychiatric contract from there. That's what I'm still on now and someone I know is still responsible for me until I can finish the contract. I have herd if this method being used one 2 trans people in there early 20s in Chicago and one in Georgia so just be aware
Well, we got into another family blow out again today. So the whole quiet family situation didn't last too long. And probably only occurred because my mom got sick and couldn't speak for a few days. Now she is back and letting me know. I guess, I just have to learn not to care about what my family thinks. I'm still in the house, so it could be worse. And I'm only being asked to leave for the sake of everyone else, so it's not quite the same as being kicked out. It's just a request for me to leave once the changes happen. But I'm still hoping that will change and they will become okay with me again.
On your point about psychiatric threats, my mom made that point today. She said she could easily call someone up and get me locked up in a ward. But she said it in anger and she wouldn't be able to hold me because I have no mental illness that would allow them to contain me (except if they use my depression against me). In any event, she said she wouldn't do that, but she vocalized that threat so it is on her mind. It's odd. She acts very bipolar about the situation. Sometimes we are "okay", to put it best, and then other days I'm the demon destroying her world.
I kicked out my eldest son when he was 17 because he was not living according to the parameters I set out for him, and was becoming an obnoxious sloth. He never finished high school and had to either get to work or starve. I had to give him the boot back then, because I knew he would never develop into a responsible adult the way he was going and so I jerked the rug out from under him for his own sake. He is now the project manager over several large building construction sites in a major western city and recently took the time to thank me for doing what was painfully needed to get him moving forward. He went on to say that had I not done that he would probably still be lounging around on my couch.
LTL you're in the same place that my son once was, going nowhere in a hurry. If you continue to hang out at your parent's place it will just be more of the same ongoing drama. Painful as it may seem, it's time to put non-essentials on the back burner and move. We've all encouraged you to move out no matter what it takes, but you are not listening to the good advice everyone has offered. Sorry hon, but it is time for you to get moving for your own sake!
Quote from: Shantel on July 27, 2013, 10:45:48 AM
I kicked out my eldest son when he was 17 because he was not living according to the parameters I set out for him, and was becoming an obnoxious sloth. He never finished high school and had to either get to work or starve. I had to give him the boot back then, because I knew he would never develop into a responsible adult the way he was going and so I jerked the rug out from under him for his own sake. He is now the project manager over several large building construction sites in a major western city and recently took the time to thank me for doing what was painfully needed to get him moving forward. He went on to say that had I not done that he would probably still be lounging around on my couch.
LTL you're in the same place that my son once was, going nowhere in a hurry. If you continue to hang out at your parent's place it will just be more of the same ongoing drama. Painful as it may seem, it's time to put non-essentials on the back burner and move. We've all encouraged you to move out no matter what it takes, but you are not listening to the good advice everyone has offered. Sorry hon, but it is time for you to get moving for your own sake!
well, I will say my situation is a bit different fron your son's. I am making plans on getring my life on track and am working on developing my future. 5he propblem with moving out is that it takes time. I am doing my best to get into a place rhat will allow me to go if need be. But there are roadblocks. I need to save up money and I can't get a loan. I was a vicrim of id theft, someone stole my social and used it to open multiple bank accounts in various Midwestern states, and ir has been difficult to even get a checking account for this reason. Finally got that and have been slowly proving my innocence bank by bank. I'm lucky rhat the thief never used my name or dob as that makws it easier ro clear, but unfortunately his actions are tied ti my social. So getring a loan without a cosigner isn't really in the question until this is clear. And not having credit makes it hard to get a place. So, believe me when I say I am working to get things on track. It's just a lot has been thrown at me rhes3 past few months. Right now, I'm doing what I can to afford rhe move if and when it comes.
I will say, however, I have no desire ro cut my family out of my life. Even though it's been hard, they are important to me. I fear moving will only distance us further than us going through the hard times together. I don't know what will happen, but I hope oue relationship can be saved, even though I am starting to doubt that ir can.
Quote from: Shantel on July 27, 2013, 10:45:48 AM
I kicked out my eldest son when he was 17 because he was not living according to the parameters I set out for him, and was becoming an obnoxious sloth. He never finished high school and had to either get to work or starve. I had to give him the boot back then, because I knew he would never develop into a responsible adult the way he was going and so I jerked the rug out from under him for his own sake. He is now the project manager over several large building construction sites in a major western city and recently took the time to thank me for doing what was painfully needed to get him moving forward. He went on to say that had I not done that he would probably still be lounging around on my couch.
LTL you're in the same place that my son once was, going nowhere in a hurry. If you continue to hang out at your parent's place it will just be more of the same ongoing drama. Painful as it may seem, it's time to put non-essentials on the back burner and move. We've all encouraged you to move out no matter what it takes, but you are not listening to the good advice everyone has offered. Sorry hon, but it is time for you to get moving for your own sake!
Times were a lot different then. That was when you could easily get a decent paying job and the cost of living wasn't sky high. I really like you Shan, as you know, but in this instance you're wrong. Today you can get a job...at McDonald's which won't even pay half the rent. I mean right now there 22 million people chronically unemployed between 18-49. I refuse to buy into the "their lazy" argument. Being a young person today is just totally different. People can say it's not different but one only need to look at the purchasing power of the dollar in 1978 and now.
That being said you do have a point that LTL should consider moving to a lesser area and getting a roommate. She should pace an ad. A good place to put it would be in the MfT section on Craigslist as lots of trans women would go there and ya never know. Go to callen Lorde and put something on the bulletin board.
Quote from: learningtolive on July 27, 2013, 01:16:13 PM
Right now, I'm doing what I can to afford rhe move if and when it comes..
You have to make your own luck LTL. Put yourself in situations where that can occur. Get out and meet people. Go to professional get togethers in your field. Join LinkdIN and message random people. Utilize your college's alumni network. Eamil all your old professors. Get another job.
Do what I do and when you present female, work the corner and make a few bucks while also getting to have sex. Wait...what...ooh, I mean, uh, I don't do that. I, uh, meant....Jk lol I just wanted to lighten the mood hehehehe
The other thing is why don't you go to Callen Lorde LTL? You will save money. The Mazzoni Center where I live pays for blood tests and will give you hormones for free almost. There may be advantages to going to where you go but in your situation you should go to callen lorde.
Lastly, I know you love your amily and all but if you want to preserve the relationship you need to get away from them. They are toxic to your transition. They talk about the best for everyone....that means everyone but you. No offense but I find you family's behavior horrid and childish. And your sisters most of all who don't even know the meaning of the word honor. They told you they would support you and now don't. You should bring up a real woman is tough and sticks by her word and helps those in need and is sensitive and doesn't abandon family like a 15 year old changes freinds. Sorry but how they are treating you is wrong. And these is no way the can comitt you. The police would never allow it just because your trans. Never. The police are well-versed and generally very very nice about it.
Quote from: learningtolive on July 27, 2013, 01:16:13 PM
I will say, however, I have no desire ro cut my family out of my life. Even though it's been hard, they are important to me. I fear moving will only distance us further than us going through the hard times together. I don't know what will happen, but I hope oue relationship can be saved, even though I am starting to doubt that ir can.
I wouldn't say that's what I did with my son or even with my own mother and sister who were such toxic ->-bleeped-<-s that I cut them off for ten years until they conceded that they had been twerps and asked for forgiveness. So that kind of cleaving away isn't always permanent but becomes necessary for your own survival and in some cases theirs.
Hopefully you will be up and running again soon so that you can function on your own like an independent adult. You're smart and intelligent, you've come a long way in your 20 something years, being independent and on your own is another part of the equation in the quest for adult maturity. I won't harp on this anymore, it's your business from here on, I wish you the very best!
Quote from: Shantel on July 27, 2013, 01:53:04 PM
I wouldn't say that's what I did with my son or even with my own mother and sister who were such toxic ->-bleeped-<-s that I cut them off for ten years until they conceded that they had been twerps and asked for forgiveness. So that kind of cleaving away isn't always permanent but becomes necessary for your own survival and in some cases theirs.
Hopefully you will be up and running again soon so that you can function on your own like an independent adult. You're smart and intelligent, you've come a long way in your 20 something years, being independent and on your own is another part of the equation in the quest for adult maturity. I won't harp on this anymore, it's your business from here on, I wish you the very best!
Thank you Shantel. I have no doubt that I will be able to carry myself in due time. I guess this is one other aspect of growing up. I do, however, still feel weird about backing away from my family. My mom is my best friend. To cut her out would kill me. And it would kill her too even if she isn't reacting the best. Maybe I have too much faith, but I got to believe she will come around.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 27, 2013, 01:50:33 PM
Times were a lot different then. That was when you could easily get a decent paying job and the cost of living wasn't sky high. I really like you Shan, as you know, but in this instance you're wrong. Today you can get a job...at McDonald's which won't even pay half the rent. I mean right now there 22 million people chronically unemployed between 18-49. I refuse to buy into the "their lazy" argument. Being a young person today is just totally different. People can say it's not different but one only need to look at the purchasing power of the dollar in 1978 and now.
That being said you do have a point that LTL should consider moving to a lesser area and getting a roommate. She should pace an ad. A good place to put it would be in the MfT section on Craigslist as lots of trans women would go there and ya never know. Go to callen Lorde and put something on the bulletin board.
You have to make your own luck LTL. Put yourself in situations where that can occur. Get out and meet people. Go to professional get togethers in your field. Join LinkdIN and message random people. Utilize your college's alumni network. Eamil all your old professors. Get another job.
Do what I do and when you present female, work the corner and make a few bucks while also getting to have sex. Wait...what...ooh, I mean, uh, I don't do that. I, uh, meant....Jk lol I just wanted to lighten the mood hehehehe
The other thing is why don't you go to Callen Lorde LTL? You will save money. The Mazzoni Center where I live pays for blood tests and will give you hormones for free almost. There may be advantages to going to where you go but in your situation you should go to callen lorde.
Lastly, I know you love your amily and all but if you want to preserve the relationship you need to get away from them. They are toxic to your transition. They talk about the best for everyone....that means everyone but you. No offense but I find you family's behavior horrid and childish. And your sisters most of all who don't even know the meaning of the word honor. They told you they would support you and now don't. You should bring up a real woman is tough and sticks by her word and helps those in need and is sensitive and doesn't abandon family like a 15 year old changes freinds. Sorry but how they are treating you is wrong. And these is no way the can comitt you. The police would never allow it just because your trans. Never. The police are well-versed and generally very very nice about it.
The blood tests and hormones aren't too bad. I did get screwed with going to a center that was affiliated with a hospital ($1,100 for blood work), but I am trying to get that reduced. And yeah, I will never go there again. I learned my lesson.
Yeah, networking hasn't helped me all too much. I have experience in politics and people will tell you lots of things and throw you out when you are disposable. Yeah, I have offers for internships and things like that. But I have done enough volunteer work for a life time. Politics isn't the most luxurious field, but I love it (well, the academic side of it). But it's okay. I WILL find something at some point.
Again, I understand what you mean about my family. But I have a hard time considering distancing myself from them.
Ltl, i just finished reading through this thread and wanted to say a few things. First of all, you are absolutely not a loser in my eyes. From reading your threads and the sincere comments you leave for people, i hope you know how wonderful you are.
Just thinking about how hard it must be for you makes me emotional, and I want you to now that you can call me on Skype if you ever just want to rant/let off steam or whine (heck i do it enough already lol).
Reflecting on what has been said, i do feel that your mum does love you unconditionally, and it's because of that love that as you say she feels she has to go out of her way to help you from what she perceives is a life changing mistake. Very much a different situation, but my younger sister let me know at the age of 16 that she was a born again Christian and was going to start attending bible classes, going away on church camps and getting baptised. I can't describe how strongly i opposed her or on this. Having met some of her more orthodox religious friends, there was no way that i was going to let her be exposed to what i considered to be dangerous religious indoctrination. Now my thinking was of course completely irrational, but nonetheless it's because i love my sister to the ends of this world and beyond that i would do anything to prevent her from what i thought was a life changing mistake. I am not trying to defend your mother's position at all, in fact i am worried about the realistic possibility of a very similar reaction from my mum judging from how my initial attempt to tell her went, but i can understand that in most part her intentions are good if not misguided.
My sister did go to the camp btw, came back turned off by the whole thing, and then came out as a lesbian a few years later.
Some good news to share. I am somewhat speaking with one of my sisters again. And today my mom looked and sounded genuinely happy to see me in the morning. We almost hugged. Small improvement, but it means the world to me.
Quote from: learningtolive on July 30, 2013, 11:52:46 AM
Some good news to share. I am somewhat speaking with one of my sisters again. And today my mom looked and sounded genuinely happy to see me in the morning. We almost hugged. Small improvement, but it means the world to me.
Cool, hope every day gets sweeter!
Wanted to share some positive updates after the whole fiasco on Saturday night (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,145963.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,145963.0.html)).
As of now, I am talking to both of my sisters and my mother. After my mom came home from work today, we sat down together and watched a movie. It was a terrible film with Charlton Heston, but I was so happy that I was able to spend some positive time with her. Later on in the evening, my sister came over and we all sat down to have dinner together. This was nice because we never have family meals at my house and things have been awkward between everyone as of late. Oddly enough, I think the family blow out did us some good. Maybe this is the start of some big progress. Small event, I know, but I wanted to share something positive instead of all the bad.
LTL
This is a good thing. A very good thing.
It's been quite some time, so I think an update is sufficient. Well, okay, I just want to vent about my argument with my mother tonight.
Since my last post here, my mother and I have been getting along okay. We have a somewhat normal relationship again, but things are still volatile. A week or so ago, she came home very hostile and decided to yell at me and let me know that I'm a disgusting warped embarrassment. Sure, I fought back against her harsh words, but it came out of nowhere. We made up and moved on as I awaited her bottled up frustration to surface again.
This week has been very tough for me. Without getting into it, I've been a bit of an emotional mess about certain things in my life. In turn, my mother has gotten annoyed, concerned and irritated over my depression. She gets that way because she cares, but doesn't no how to help. In any event, we discussed my hrt last night. She sort of blames my depression and crying fits on the medication and she keeps trying to get me off of them as a result. This sort of renewed her desire to change my path and straighten me out again. When she came home today, she started to tell me that there are medications that can make people think they are trans and I may very well be on them. According to her, there was a lawyer infomercial talking about a drug (Risperdal) which apparently can make boys think they are trans. Even though I am not on such a drug (I'm not bipolar or schizophrenic), she is convinced that hrt and cymbalta have made me believe I am trans. I can't stress this enough, I have had these thoughts way before either medications were started. I started taken hrt in hopes to transition and cymbalta was initially started as a way to try to temper my dysphoria and the negative side effects of it. My dysphoria preceded both medications and were the cause for me going on the medications, it wasn't the other way around. But she still refuses to believe me despite the fact that I keep telling her how I feel. She does acknowledge I am very determined about transitioning, but she thinks I'm not in my right mind. It's very frustrating.
On a side note, I also realize this is very hard for her as I'm killing her hopes and dreams. After her rant on the medications, she brought up my graduation. This was a very special moment for my parents because I was given the honor of being the student speaker for my department's commencement ceremony and got to sit on stage with the professors. Besides that, I was given acknowledgement for my volunteer work and given an award. It was one of the proudest days of her life. She couldn't kept remarking how handsome I was and how everyone respected me. She even mentioned that I had the attention of some of the girls in the crowd. The reason she brought it up was to tell me that this is how she will remember me no matter what. It kills me to no end that I have taken this image of her child away. I no longer appear in her eyes as the smart, respected, successful, handsome son I once appeared to be. Now, I'm an unemployed, unsuccessful, ugly trans person who will soon be the ridicule of society. It's sad for two reasons. One, I stole my mother's former image of me and crushed it. Whether or not it's fair for me to be who she wants, it's sad to do that to a parent. Two, I know in some ways she's right. I wouldn't trade transitioning, but it will be a tough road. It's true that it will be harder to be successful and respected and people will may see me as an ugly freak. Quite honestly, it will probably be a harder path in some respects than not transitioning. But I didn't ask to be this way. It really isn't as much of a choice as many think. Believe me, I wouldn't of ever chose this if I could have avoided it somehow. Yet, I can't help but realize there is truth to her arguments and that is what hurts the most. I can handle certain things, but the truth is the hardest thing to face. And realizing that I am just an unemployed, unsuccessful and unattractive person when compared to my former self makes me wonder if I will find a pathway for a better life after transitioning. Yeah, I need to do it and desire to do so, but knowing that I'm a failure in my mother's eye is not an easy pill to swallow. Worst of all, I can't even deny that she is probably right about what I've become and what will happen in my future. It's sad all around.
Quote from: learningtolive on August 25, 2013, 09:29:57 PM
It's been quite some time, so I think an update is sufficient. Well, okay, I just want to vent about my argument with my mother tonight.
Since my last post here, my mother and I have been getting along okay. We have a somewhat normal relationship again, but things are still volatile. A week or so ago, she came home very hostile and decided to yell at me and let me know that I'm a disgusting warped embarrassment. Sure, I fought back against her harsh words, but it came out of nowhere. We made up and moved on as I awaited her bottled up frustration to surface again.
This week has been very tough for me. Without getting into it, I've been a bit of an emotional mess about certain things in my life. In turn, my mother has gotten annoyed, concerned and irritated over my depression. She gets that way because she cares, but doesn't no how to help. In any event, we discussed my hrt last night. She sort of blames my depression and crying fits on the medication and she keeps trying to get me off of them as a result. This sort of renewed her desire to change my path and straighten me out again. When she came home today, she started to tell me that there are medications that can make people think they are trans and I may very well be on them. According to her, there was a lawyer infomercial talking about a drug (Risperdal) which apparently can make boys think they are trans. Even though I am not on such a drug (I'm not bipolar or schizophrenic), she is convinced that hrt and cymbalta have made me believe I am trans. I can't stress this enough, I have had these thoughts way before either medications were started. I started taken hrt in hopes to transition and cymbalta was initially started as a way to try to temper my dysphoria and the negative side effects of it. My dysphoria preceded both medications and were the cause for me going on the medications, it wasn't the other way around. But she still refuses to believe me despite the fact that I keep telling her how I feel. She does acknowledge I am very determined about transitioning, but she thinks I'm not in my right mind. It's very frustrating.
On a side note, I also realize this is very hard for her as I'm killing her hopes and dreams. After her rant on the medications, she brought up my graduation. This was a very special moment for my parents because I was given the honor of being the student speaker for my department's commencement ceremony and got to sit on stage with the professors. Besides that, I was given acknowledgement for my volunteer work and given an award. It was one of the proudest days of her life. She couldn't kept remarking how handsome I was and how everyone respected me. She even mentioned that I had the attention of some of the girls in the crowd. The reason she brought it up was to tell me that this is how she will remember me no matter what. It kills me to no end that I have taken this image of her child away. I no longer appear in her eyes as the smart, respected, successful, handsome son I once appeared to be. Now, I'm an unemployed, unsuccessful, ugly trans person who will soon be the ridicule of society. It's sad for two reasons. One, I stole my mother's former image of me and crushed it. Whether or not it's fair for me to be who she wants, it's sad to do that to a parent. Two, I know in some ways she's right. I wouldn't trade transitioning, but it will be a tough road. It's true that it will be harder to be successful and respected and people will may see me as an ugly freak. Quite honestly, it will probably be a harder path in some respects than not transitioning. But I didn't ask to be this way. It really isn't as much of a choice as many think. Believe me, I wouldn't of ever chose this if I could have avoided it somehow. Yet, I can't help but realize there is truth to her arguments and that is what hurts the most. I can handle certain things, but the truth is the hardest thing to face. And realizing that I am just an unemployed, unsuccessful and unattractive person when compared to my former self makes me wonder if I will find a pathway for a better life after transitioning. Yeah, I need to do it and desire to do so, but knowing that I'm a failure in my mother's eye is not an easy pill to swallow. Worst of all, I can't even deny that she is probably right about what I've become and what will happen in my future. It's sad all around.
Oh wow LtL you hit my fears of coming out pretty well. My biggest fear is crushing my parents dreams and I ask myself everyday what right do I have to hurt my family so? The people who from day one has supported me, given me every opportunity I can think of. The people who had tolerated me for not having a job, or quitting every job abruptly, and trust me LtL I was out of work for a very long time and I am 30 and I still have one year of college left.
This has me doubting myself, flipflopping and over all stressed.
But I think even if I did come out my parents would still love me, like how I believe your parents love you. But they don't understand and honestly do any of use understand? I feel like I am rambling and I want to say something so fantastic that it will make you feel better, but I have never been very good at that nor do I have the wisdom or experience to do so.
Just hold on and move the direct you feel that will give you some form of happiness!
<3
Quote from: Glitterfly on August 25, 2013, 09:57:58 PM
unconditionally means without condition. having to be a man is a condition. taking back the things she said about being trans and living 'like a normal man' is a condition, and it seems like it's a condition she's not willing to give up on for the time being.
it's great that your sisters are supportive even though they don't understand it but sometimes distance is good. especially when emotions are running hot it's sometimes impossible to see the forest for the trees, that's when distance (in both time and place) comes in handy... it's a step back allowing the situation to cool down and everyone to take a step back... :)
LTL, don't be afraid to take a new step. don't be afraid of the distance... if there really is love and if your family really is worth saving for then you have nothing to worry about! then you have something to back to... something to come back to work on. it won't go away if it's really there~
i hope you get to move out soon and take the necessary distance. it might help her too to not see you, not have constant access to you... help her realise that she might lose you unless she finds forgiveness and love in her heart to replace the disapproval and hostility she's showing.
it sounds like you're both frustrated and the situation can only deteriorate if you stay. do you have friends who could give you a temporary place to stay while you search for a job? maybe elsewhere if you'd have a better chance to get a job elsewhere? think about it~ i wish you the best of luck <3
I'd leave, but it isn't an option. I have nowhere to go and don't have the ability to pay for rent. It's a terrible situation for the both of us, but I can't leave. Though I'm getting sick of living here. Once I have stable employment, I am gone. Hopefully that will happen soon. I love my mom and she is a great person, but she's changed since I have come out. The main issue is that I can't deal with her random attacks and her vituperative statements. And much of what she says is pure lunacy.
Quote from: Glitterfly on August 25, 2013, 10:03:50 PM
Parents can also fail their children by not being there for them, by not loving them and by not supporting them. Is she worried about failing you? Mutual relationships work both ways... Don't believe all she says. Unless your entire worth as a human being is defined by you holding a job and/or your social status (in which case things like emotions, family and so on don't matter...) you being jobless does not make you fail as a person... it's temporary, you'll work it out. Future will be different from right now... (isn't it always?) don't give up hope... <3
It's not just about status. She's okay about my unemployment because she knows how hard I'm trying. It's all about my transition. It's disgusting to her and we are all freaks in her eyes. It's very hard to hear my mom talk about how she loves me while verbally criticizing me with a disgusted look in her eye. The thing that annoys me the most is that she won't believe me. She thinks I'm making it all up and blames my friends. One of my bffs is trans so she thinks I have been mentally abducted by her and converted to the trans club. Who would make such changes if they weren't serious about it and didn't think everything through? Why would I tell her that I have been going through this for years if I really wasn't. It's insulting that she refuses to believe or accept anything I have to say. I'll always be mommy's little boy and nothing I can do will change that. Even if I tell her the truth, "it's a lie that the evil trans people are telling me. And one day by the grace of god, we will all awake from the nightmare." Yeah mom, keep trying to pray the trans away. That will work.
Quote from: Aina on August 25, 2013, 10:50:48 PM
Oh wow LtL you hit my fears of coming out pretty well. My biggest fear is crushing my parents dreams and I ask myself everyday what right do I have to hurt my family so? The people who from day one has supported me, given me every opportunity I can think of. The people who had tolerated me for not having a job, or quitting every job abruptly, and trust me LtL I was out of work for a very long time and I am 30 and I still have one year of college left.
This has me doubting myself, flipflopping and over all stressed.
But I think even if I did come out my parents would still love me, like how I believe your parents love you. But they don't understand and honestly do any of use understand? I feel like I am rambling and I want to say something so fantastic that it will make you feel better, but I have never been very good at that nor do I have the wisdom or experience to do so.
Just hold on and move the direct you feel that will give you some form of happiness!
<3
Don't worry, it's not so bad. I'll live. My mom is a great person, she just has some messed up views and has gone insane since I have come out. Yeah these moments drive me insane, but then there are the times where we hug or we don something to bond with each other. We're very close even to this day. It's just her crazy bipolar moments which push me away and leave me feeling hopeless. Hopefully she will regain her sanity in short time and there will be no more vicious unpredictable attacks.
After our fight last night, I decided to be the peacemaker and made my mom a nice card to surprise her when she woke up for work in the morning. I'm a terrible artist and suck at designing these things, but I stayed up all night and made a card in hopes that it would cheer up. When I woke up my I noticed my mom left me the sweetest note. Yes, she still used my boy name and male pronouns, but the note had her love written all over it. We hugged and made up when she came home. She still had to remind me how much she loves "her son" and "her boy", but I'm glad it got a little better. Besides she stopped calling me her boy when I started to tear up, so she is getting a little more sensitive to it.
Just wanted to share the good news and not always the bad. Coming out is a roller coaster, so we will have our ups and downs.
It is definitely a roller coaster. That feeling when you see the light come on for your family is precious tho it takes a long time before it arrives.
In continuing the tradition of updating my coming out story, I feel the need to give an update and put some things in perspective. Much of what I wrote in the past was the result of a in the moment emotional reaction. Everything written here is true, but it's skewed in the eyes of a very sad transgirl who desperately hoped for her family's total acceptance. Reading some of what I wrote here in the past is painful because much of it is true yet some of it is unfair. Therefore, I would like to clarfy things to those who stumble upon my coming out tale. My mother and I have always been very close. Truthfully, I am a mommy's girl and feel proud to have such a profound closeness with her. For most of my life, I have been the emotional rock for my mother and she could always count on me to be there for her. It's hard for me to explain, but we have a very strong bond that is very special. When I came out, it shattered her world. Her only son and one of the few people she felt she could count on ("her little buddy") was being taken away from her. That's a hard reality for her to accept and it nearly destroyed her. Even though she said some harsh things, she was reacting out of legitimate pain and fear which was backed by a strong love for her "son". The portrait painted in this blog is true, but also deceptive. It doesn't illustrate the amazing and loving person that my mother was in the past or continues to be. It doesn't show everyone here why she is the greatest person in the world. Because of that, I feel sad and dismayed that I might of portrayed my personal hero as a villain. I feel like that may be a slight injustice to those who read this and try to learn about what coming out is like. While everything written here is true, it is emotionally skewed and doesn't show the real pain my family was exposed to nor does it show the love that was showered on me at times which I neglected. I suppose it's hard to be impartial and unbiased in our own coming out, so I can't ever do the other side of things justice. But I do want people to realize that coming out is hard for everyone, not just for the person that is coming out. It changes relationships and exposes fraudulent beliefs that were once cherished truths about our loved ones. It will hurt everyone, fights will happen, and all parties will say incredibly insensitive and nasty things to one another. However, if you have a family with a strong foundation and true love for one another, you will make it through. It may take time, but it can happen. Love can defeat all adversity even if it seems hopeless at times.
Now for the actual update. Things have greatly improved between my family and I. A few months ago, I thought I would be homeless and without a home. Yet here I am, living at home with a loving family. I can't say this lifestyle is what they would choose, but they are learning to cope with my transition and I am trying to make it as bearable as possible. My mother and I have an incredibly strong relationship and we are getting along great. Sure, we have our ups and downs, but things are pretty much back to normal. However, I still present as male at home and still haven't changed my name or the pronouns. I hope this will change soon, but I am working off the progress that we have made so far. My mother hasn't made an issue about my hormones or therapist, so that is a huge step for us and want to do everything as slow as possible. On the other hand, my dysphoria has increased ten fold since I have started transitioning. In a way, I feel the need to give up the male facade and just be true to myself. Still, I must compromise with my family to keep the peace and will work with their comfort levels as well as my own. Nothing is perfect, but we are getting there. I suppose that is a nice change of pace from where this thread started.
Quote from: learningtolive on September 17, 2013, 04:56:25 PM
Now for the actual update. Things have greatly improved between my family and I. A few months ago, I thought I would be homeless and without a home. Yet here I am, living at home with a loving family. I can't say this lifestyle is what they would choose, but they are learning to cope with my transition and I am trying to make it as bearable as possible. My mother and I have an incredibly strong relationship and we are getting along great. Sure, we have our ups and downs, but things are pretty much back to normal. However, I still present as male at home and still haven't changed my name or the pronouns. I hope this will change soon, but I am working off the progress that we have made so far. My mother hasn't made an issue about my hormones or therapist, so that is a huge step for us and want to do everything as slow as possible. On the other hand, my dysphoria has increased ten fold since I have started transitioning. In a way, I feel the need to give up the male facade and just be true to myself. Still, I must compromise with my family to keep the peace and will work with their comfort levels as well as my own. Nothing is perfect, but we are getting there. I suppose that is a nice change of pace from where this thread started.
So understandable for me! Here it's not a mom but a wonderful wife, so I have done it so far incrementally rather than plunging in as I'm so inclined to prefer and it has paid off making it more palatable for someone I love and refuse to lose.
Your mom and family is breaking grounds. I am glad things are going okay and taking it slow for them to adjust to you
Hi LTL,
Its great that everything at home has improved so much. There are many beautiful people on this forum and you are up there with the best. You so deserve to be happy and so deserve to be yourself. Every little step will get you there safely.
Ciara.
Quote from: learningtolive on June 21, 2013, 07:50:54 PM
This is a difficult post for me to write, but I wanted to get it out and share. I know these kinds of things can be helpful to other people out there, so I will open my wounds to the public in hopes that this will aid someone else in some way.
Yesterday I came out to my Mother and sister. I have two sisters, so now all of my siblings are in the loop. I will start with the good. My sister was extremely supportive about it and didn't have any problems. While she didn't see it coming, she wasn't bothered by it at all. So far both of my sisters have shown a lot of support and compassion about my situation.
As for my mom, I had a detailed plan about how I went about it. I wrote a very in depth note that explained everything I wanted to say. While saying it in person would be a better method in some cases, my sister and I thought it would be better to give my mom time to absorb everything. So the plan was to have my sisters give my mom the note at a prearranged private destination and console her afterwards. In the meantime, I went out to dinner with a friend and tried to think of anything besides the terror of all that may come. I had a great dinner and went out to buy some alcohol to prepare for my mom's return home. I was a little tipsy and playing my guitar when my mom walked in my room. She was in tears and I've never seen her look so bad. We talked about things and I tried to answer her questions, but she kept telling me that she doesn't buy it. No matter what I said, she had an alternative theory. She had a hang up about my sexuality and kept asking me how I could say I guys if I've never slept with one. Then she said I have no idea what it's like to be a woman and can't know if I would really like being one. She then blamed my "twisted friends", my evil transgender therapist, and my echo chamber support group for influencing me. Without accepting everything I told her, I was just a confused depressed boy that was being manipulated by others. She told me she loved me and would always support me, but she couldn't accept this at all. To her, I'm just a crazy man that will never be a girl. Needless to say it was a rough night. Today we taked more, but it was the same. She doesn't believe me and thinks I'm just lost. She asked to try testosterone to see if that might make me like being a boy because I had low t prior to starting hrt. She then told me she wants me to distance myself from my friends and support groups and wants me to see a "straight male" therapist who would challenge the idea of me being transgender. In essence, all the support that I've developed which allowed me to feel better about myself needs to go. Instead, I should continue living as an unhappy man and get these crazy ideas out of my head. I told her living as a man would lead to my demise. She was in tears when I said that and I know she cares. The conversation ended with her telling me that people may laugh at me when I start everything. She didn't mean to hurt me, but she told me that I was manly and don't look feminine at all. At that point, I cried incredibly hard and went into a sadness I didn't know was possible. My mom was really upset that she hurt me that much and started to hug me. Even though she doesn't support it, she started to console me by saying the estrogen can work wonders and that I am gorgeous already. That's where we left it.
As of now, my mom doesn't like the idea of it and wants me to stop asap and distance myself from my female identity and all the support I have established that backs up my idenitty. She said she loves me and will support me no matter what, but she feels I'm making a terrible mistake and she wants to stop it from happening. So I have her love, but not her acceptance. She says that she is trying to understand, but it seems to me that she is really trying to talk me out of it than understand. I didn't expect her to be happy or approving, but it's very hard. It seems like she won't acknowledge any of my feelings and is looking to invalidate everything I have experienced. Whenever I explain to her something that occurred or the reasoning behind a particular action, she provides me alternative theories. Why can't she just accept that I know how I feel inside and know why I did something or acted a certain way? I'm the only one on the inside. Who is she to tell me that I don't know what I'm feeling? I love my mom and I understand that she will need time, but don't tell me I don't know myself or why I feel and have felt a certain way. It's very weird. On the one hand, I have her emotional support and love. On the other hand, she can't accept this and needs to prove to me that I'm not really transgender. Like I'm different from everyone else in the t community and am delusional for thinking this is who I am. So it's not that she is rejecting me, but she is refusing to believe anything that I tell her when it comes to this. It's very frustrating.
Anyway, forgive me for the long post, but I needed to vent. And to anyone out there who is coming out soon or looking for information on these things, I hope my post was helpful in some way. We all need luck with these things, but sometimes further knowledge can help us increase our chances for a successful outing.
I hope everything works out for you. I haven't discussed anything with my parents yet kind of putting it off until I know everything. Hang in there. Your mom will learn to accept it eventually. Probably gona take some time