I'm curious what people's opinions would be regarding this. Just a light-hearted fantasy question:
If, say for the sake of argument, an amazing new technology became available by which it were possible to transfer one's mind into a stranger's body, of preferable sex, would you do it? For example, an MTF and an FTM of similar age and health could agree to swap bodies so that each could live as they preferred, however the bodies would not be their own. They would no longer look like themselves; they'd see the another person's face in the mirror, have to live with the history of another person's body. But they would be fully cisgendered with all the right parts in all the right places, if you get what I mean. ;)
If I'm honest, although it might seem tempting, I'm not sure I could do it myself... I think I'd be even less comfortable in a stranger's skin than I am currently in my own. But then again, the functionality of parts is not of greatest concern to me. I just wondered what others had to say on the matter and whether anyone would consider doing this, if it were even remotely possible.
Just a silly thought.
I would have to say no. Even though my memories would be intact, my life would be different. Different place, different friends, different life. My pain and hardships are what have molded and made me who I am. To just switch lives would be almost like..I was dishonoring all the pain I went through to become who I am.
You could end up with a different sort of dysphoria then.
Totally freaked out by this. Not what you may think though. I was literally composing a post asking, " How would you feel about arranging a head swap with a transgender counterpart?"
I know it's not exactly the same but still close enough to, well, let me say it again.....Freak me out.
To your question. If I were single? In a heart beat I would swap.
I was on a yahoo group devoted to figuring out how to do this sort of thing
the group is gone now but I saved the info
http://spiritincontainer.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=8 (http://spiritincontainer.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=8)
(I know it makes you log in to download files, send me a message with an email and I will email them to you)
but as it turned out no one really wanted to go through with it,
but then the mismatch of age and other things were just to much for the members there to really want to try it,
so I expect that some would go for it, but many would not,
likely people would be up for trading with good friends that they know well,
or at least with people in the same country,
but the unknown random person would likely not be happening often.
I actually have a roleplaying character who went through something similar. It is the reason my avatar is a Mincinno. Mara (my character) was born a female pokemon but when she was turned into a human hybrid something went wrong and turned her into a boy. He likes to dress like a girl, wearing mini-skirts over his pants and bright neon colors. Well, he starts falling for this guy but the other is straight. Nothing too hard of a crush, mostly an attraction as the other had saved his life before.
Well, there comes along this thing called the "Dream World" which is basically like a video game. You go into this chamber and fall asleep, but you control how your dream works. And so, you appear as you want to appear, which means that Mara looks as he would if he hadn't been changed into a boy and was still a girl. Mara and the boy he likes meet in the dream world, but because Mara now appears as a beautiful young woman, suddenly the other is attracted. Only, the boy doesn't realize that the girl he is attracted to is his quiet (around him anyway) slightly awkward friend Mara. They go on a few dates and Mara is so happy, because he finally gets to be with the person he cares for a lot. Only, he can't bring himself to tell the other who he really is, for fear that he will freak out and dissapear. So, he ends up staying in the Dream World more and more, almost as if he was addicted to it. Addicted to being what the other wanted, not who he really was.
..sorry if that made no sense whatsoever. I thought it went along with the conversation. I guess long story short, you are you. Dreaming and becoming someone else by switching bodies or something like that almost feels like..I don't know..
I figured most people would say no!
Quote from: sentience on June 23, 2013, 10:58:38 AM
Totally freaked out by this. Not what you may think though. I was literally composing a post asking, " How would you feel about arranging a head swap with a transgender counterpart?"
I know it's not exactly the same but still close enough to, well, let me say it again.....Freak me out.
To your question. If I were single? In a heart beat I would swap.
Hey, wow. That's scary. Maybe you I would make good swap candidates! xD
And Darkie that's a really, really cool idea. Very tragic, but it makes an awesome story. You should seriously write it up as a novella, I would read that. And I agree with you. I think transitioning helps us to better become the person we know we are. It makes us think hard about what we want - and fighting for it makes it all the more worthwhile when it finally comes.
This is a very old gimmick for sci-fi and I think everyone's considered it a time or two. If Scarlett Johannson's willing, I'm totally game for it.
If such a thing could be attempted, though, it probably wouldn't turn out very well. The mind isn't just a mass of floating thoughts. It's very much rooted in the physical structure of the brain and body where it lives. Such a radical change would probably result in disaster.
~ Lyric ~
Lyric, what you say is something I have pondered so often. OK back to Science fiction and philosophy. Just supposing you could make an exact replica of yourself, and I mean exactly right down to each energy level of every atom. Would you be one person in two places at the same time? Would the replica be a different sentient....sentient at all? Head nips!
Quote from: sentience on June 23, 2013, 11:54:09 AM
Just supposing you could make an exact replica of yourself, and I mean exactly right down to each energy level of every atom. Would you be one person in two places at the same time? Would the replica be a different sentient....sentient at all? Head nips!
I have a friend who is convinced that if he replicated himself and then killed the original, then
'he' would still be alive. I can't understand this as although it would be an identical copy, with identical memories, the stream of consciousness would not be the same. One of him would still experience death and perish eternally.
I don't think you'd be one person in two places, rather two models of the same person. Just as all identical barbies in the world are not one Barbie in many places... if that makes sense at all.
Sentience, have you heard of John Hick's replica theory? You might find it interesting.
EDIT: I found a youtube video that explains it: youtube.com/watch?v=oQ11N5cI5nc#
Nope, no way. There are lots of parts of my body that I don't like, and some which can't be changed, bone structure of my hips, height, and other things, such as scars. But those things are all part of my body which make up its history, its a map from where I was to where I am now.
And if anything went wrong with that body I would always be wondering if something similar would have happened to my original body, or if it was my decision to transfer myself into a different body that would cause everyone to worry about me, or cause them grief. Or if I found out that the person who had my body had gotten cancer, or something similar I would be blaming myself for not being able to cope with my body and ditching its problems on someone else, even if I didn't know it had those problems at the time.
Of course there's the problem that people who were random strangers to you would never believe you weren't the person who owned that body before.
Good answer.
I guess there'd have to be a lot of paperwork involved regarding who has liability for any bodily problems that might arise. And you'd probably have to carry round some 'proof of transfer' certificate or something to prove that you were who you said you were. It would, even if it was something one actually wanted, probably turn out to cause a lot more problems than its worth.
Just to add to the list of issues, it would be awful to wake up from the proceedure, ready to start your new life, only to see your new face on the news as a wanted criminal. Even if it were possible to swap bodies in this way, I'm sure it would never be legal.
There have been various movies or TV dramas dealing with this subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_swap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_swap)
Among them, "Being John Malkovich" would be most interesting, as it deals with the gender identity issue.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120601/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120601/)
barbie~~
OOMMGGGGG i would totally do it!! I mean yes surgery can do wonders, but so far no surgery would give me a period or the ability to get pregnant. I know someone is gonna call me crazy for saying yes but i don't mind lol.
I would do it in a second.
It's a question that I've toyed with in my mind in the past in various forms as I was trying to come to terms with who I am and whether I am really trans.
A way of figuring out if I wanted to be female, or whether I just wanted to be a female version of me.
There are billions of women, of all ages, races, sizes, backgrounds, the whole spectrum, who I would swap bodies with in an instant. Even (and this might get weird) someone who is an old lady whose body is more of a painful, troublesome shell for that wonderful experienced mind of hers. I would trade my current body, in its late thirties but oh so male and with many decades of life left in it (I hope), for a few days or weeks or months - whatever is left - to live as that old woman.
Its something I have thought about many times. And, yes I would do it in a second, with no hesitation or regret.
No way am I gonna risk getting a slow metabolism or less of an immune system than I've got now.
I used to play this game with myself, before I knew I was transgender. I'd see some random woman and ask myself whether I'd give up all I have to live in her body, not knowing her circumstance or anything.
I should have known something was up, because no matter how much I wanted to deny it, deep down inside, I knew I would.
To be honest, I kinda like my bone structure, haha.
I think I would be up for a body swap. I only like a few things about my body, and even then, I still want to change them...
But, I think I would only do it with someone I trust. not just any random MTF. I want to make sure that we would both be somewhat comfortable in our new bodies, etc. And that we would be comfortable with the people we are around all the time.
And, Darkie, now I have the full story on mara, huh? I think I'd be a lil' something like that, as I've said before.
I would absolutely say yes. I already feel a disconnect with people anyway, so picking up a new group of friends and family would be no real loss. My metabolism is so slow that the only way it can go is up. My lungs are probably pitch black from smoking all these years. Oh and I could probably end up in a body where I can wear sleeveless outfits without worrying about this stupid tattoo.
Hmm. Well to me, it's kind of vague. Like asking "would you like a 10 year friendship?" Sure, it sounds like a nice option to have. But the most important part of this would be choosing the person to do it with (if I can even choose) and then, do they have to agree? I think I would definitely want someone that I feel close to in order to consider this. You can't trust just anybody with your body, after all. XD And I would want someone who took care of their own as well and who knows good people. It wouldn't be a thing to take lightly or do on a whim.
Quote from: suzifrommd on June 24, 2013, 05:38:44 PM
I used to play this game with myself, before I knew I was transgender. I'd see some random woman and ask myself whether I'd give up all I have to live in her body, not knowing her circumstance or anything.
I should have known something was up, because no matter how much I wanted to deny it, deep down inside, I knew I would.
That is me, exactly.
And no matter what woman I would pick - old, obese, ill, pretty, laden with kids, young, thin, cute, ugly, whatever - I would without hesitation swap places.
And that, for me, is verification that there's something ->-bleeped-<-ed up about my gender!
I know.. likely my first post here... but ohh God yes!!! Sign me up please!!
Quote from: Lajs on June 23, 2013, 12:00:07 PM
I have a friend who is convinced that if he replicated himself and then killed the original, then 'he' would still be alive. I can't understand this as although it would be an identical copy, with identical memories, the stream of consciousness would not be the same. One of him would still experience death and perish eternally.
I don't think you'd be one person in two places, rather two models of the same person. Just as all identical barbies in the world are not one Barbie in many places... if that makes sense at all.
Sentience, have you heard of John Hick's replica theory? You might find it interesting.
EDIT: I found a youtube video that explains it: youtube.com/watch?v=oQ11N5cI5nc#
This reminds me of "The invasion of the body snatchers!"
I would do it an not even think about it!
You know what. After thinking about it I think I would totally do it. Would be fun to be a fella even if just for a day and see
I would prefer the full experience so I think that I would. I am hoping that medical technology will become available so that we can reproduce.
Idk if you bleed as much as I was after srs for the first two months you might just get your fill of the experience ;)
This is actually pretty difficult for me. There is a part of me that would be willing to do such a thing immediately and without hesitation. But there is also another voice in my mind that is asking all kinds of questions--mainly ones that revolve around how it would affect my loved ones. Would my family know of the change or would we be essentially stepping each other's lives, being the only ones to know? How would this person treat my family? They certainly would be a position where they could influence those I care about for better or worse.
I think I'd do it, but I'd have to be able to disclose it to my family and friends. They'd deserve to know about it. I would think that the other person's family would deserve the same. In fact, I'd be concerned if the other person wanted to keep the swap secret.
Quote from: Tristan on June 27, 2013, 08:55:17 PM
Idk if you bleed as much as I was after srs for the first two months you might just get your fill of the experience ;)
:0 That sounds rough.
The very first TS person I ever met was FtM, back about 1964 when I was just 14 and he was about 18. We had "the perfect solution" to both our problems, a body swap, but couldn't figure out how to accomplish it! There was little hope for me and NONE for him back then so we would have done it then and there if it had been possible.
I had this conversation with Cain before he had top surgery, we referred to it as a "Swap Meat." :D And again many years earlier at a TG support group which was dominated by MtF types, two very female cis looking youngsters with all the attributes the MtF's desired for their own bodies showed up. All were aghast when they announced that they were FtM and were planning on all this surgery and body modification to become male congruent, we all wished the good witch Glenda would appear, wave her magic wand and poof we would all experience insta-swap! ;D :D
i would love to swap my body with an FTM and i'm sure he would feel the same but I know its impossible otherwise old rich people would just be swapping bodies with young heart attack vivtims who die on life support etc.
i'm saying that if body swap were possible we would alreay be doing it
Quote from: Lilyyy on June 30, 2013, 04:54:08 AM
i'm saying that if body swap were possible we would alreay be doing it
Exactly. That's why it's a thought experiment, i.e. hypothetical.
But it's true that people with physical disabilities (and money..) would be the first priority.
Eh, that's a difficult question... it would basically be abandoning my family, so I'd be sad and would feel selfish about that. But if that wasn't a factor (say, if we were in bad terms), then maybe. But people are important to me, and I feel like I would become all alone after the swap. I wouldn't be the new family's daughter. Just some stranger. And being even more alone than I presently am would be bad; very bad. But if, for example, I could go back to my family, or, in tbe absence of a loving family, if the new family would truly adopt me and love me, then most probably, I would do it. The most important factor is family bonds. You don't choose your family, but for better or fir worse, unless you have an awful one, those bonds can't be replaced just like that. And if you have an awful one, would you really inflict that to the new soul in your body?
(And to begin with, considering my numerous problems, a guy would need.to be pretty desperate for a penis to want MY body.)
I dreamed about it when I was younger. It's difficult to me cause mostly I like my personality and I'm kinda okay with myself except with my body. I sounded egoist I'm sure :'D But I still would give up all those stuff to just live like every cis person.
Yes, I don't think it would be abandoning anyone as was mentioned earlier. Just as easy to tell family of a body swap as it is about TS and transitioning.
Quote from: Lajs on June 23, 2013, 10:45:55 AM
I'm curious what people's opinions would be regarding this. Just a light-hearted fantasy question:
If, say for the sake of argument, an amazing new technology became available by which it were possible to transfer one's mind into a stranger's body, of preferable sex, would you do it? For example, an MTF and an FTM of similar age and health could agree to swap bodies so that each could live as they preferred, however the bodies would not be their own. They would no longer look like themselves; they'd see the another person's face in the mirror, have to live with the history of another person's body. But they would be fully cisgendered with all the right parts in all the right places, if you get what I mean. ;)
If I'm honest, although it might seem tempting, I'm not sure I could do it myself... I think I'd be even less comfortable in a stranger's skin than I am currently in my own. But then again, the functionality of parts is not of greatest concern to me. I just wondered what others had to say on the matter and whether anyone would consider doing this, if it were even remotely possible.
Just a silly thought.
Stargate Universe. Idea's been played out in sci fi.
I'd certainly try lots of different body types, forms, shapes, and I think it'd be a fantastic way to see what the world would look like from different cultural perspective, both from within and outside that culture.
I'd say a great, great deal of the world's problems could be solved, quickly, if the technology was used wisely. We did a kind of 'equivalent' here in Australia, on a documentary. Australian women dressed in the cultural attire of obviously foreign cultures. What they learned, quickly, was great empathy for social minority groups.
I also saw an MTF woman speak about life before and after changing her form. She grew a great, rapid appreciation of feminism and empathy, because she found she was treated very differently.
cheers, stav
I would do this in a heartbeat as medical science cannot allow me to give birth, although if medical science was advanced enough to perform this procedure then it would probably be advanced enough to allow me to transition & have children.
Due to my health problems however I doubt anyone would be crazy enough to want my body, my only hope for this would be to have a clone created, this would then allow me to have my genetic faults rectified. It would also mean that I could be transferred into my new body at a younger age to reclaim the "lost" years.
Quote from: Jayne on July 03, 2013, 06:47:03 AM
I would do this in a heartbeat as medical science cannot allow me to give birth, although if medical science was advanced enough to perform this procedure then it would probably be advanced enough to allow me to transition & have children.
Due to my health problems however I doubt anyone would be crazy enough to want my body, my only hope for this would be to have a clone created, this would then allow me to have my genetic faults rectified. It would also mean that I could be transferred into my new body at a younger age to reclaim the "lost" years.
My hopes that our medical sciences advance to give you all you would ever hope for--and that company, kindness, appreciation, and support of others helps get you through in the meantime.
Kind Regards
stav
Transferring to clones can't do. Ethically it's a disaster, so I doubt any sane person would authorize it. If science allows to live forever (which would obviously be the first use of the technology), then it means humanity needs to stop breeding or it will overpopulate the planet to a critical point, and it also means that we would deem ourselves the ultimate, final generation of humans, who would live forever. By what right?
(Sorry, one of the more interesting parts of my philosophy class.)
In a purely hypothetical sense, it could be an interesting experiment. Would I want to stay that way? Goodness, no!
First and foremost, I am a parent. I am a husband in a loving and respectful marriage. Additionally, I have forged a mutual tolerance with many of my family members out of the ashes of my former life. I put my body through #e!! getting to where I am & I am proud of every last scar. They are my visible memories, a road map of where I have been.
There are still parts of my anatomy that I wish to change but I'm not willing to pay the cost required to receive instant gratification.
:)
Quote from: mikaelmackison on July 04, 2013, 03:14:08 PM
In a purely hypothetical sense, it could be an interesting experiment. Would I want to stay that way? Goodness, no!
First and foremost, I am a parent. I am a husband in a loving and respectful marriage. Additionally, I have forged a mutual tolerance with many of my family members out of the ashes of my former life. I put my body through #e!! getting to where I am & I am proud of every last scar. They are my visible memories, a road map of where I have been.
There are still parts of my anatomy that I wish to change but I'm not willing to pay the cost required to receive instant gratification.
:)
I loved this post :)
I'm getting MDL surgery to repair me in 3 weeks (OMG I am anxious in bursts). And, am going to get tattoos to cover the god almighty scar I'll be left with down the side--for the road map of my life, as I found hope from tragedy, and established new equilibrium in my family relationships.
cheers
stav
Quote from: Emily Aster on June 24, 2013, 06:06:25 PM
I would absolutely say yes. I already feel a disconnect with people anyway, so picking up a new group of friends and family would be no real loss.
^ My feelings too.
Although the two family members I have I'd stay in touch with.
I think about this A LOT. I would swap with a GG even if I knew she was going to live only 2 more days, so that I would know the happiness that's always eluded me. I had this thought just today in fact.
I saw a FTM the other day at a doctor I go to who specializes in transgenders. He was only distinguishable to other TGs I think, as I spotted him right away. He seemed like a pretty rugged guy with facial hair and a voice deeper than mine. I thought, if only we could go back and swap brains somehow. Hopefully it was easier for him than it is for me.
I also have the thought: to be the woman I think I should be right this very second, I would give up everything I owned or would own, and walk away from all family and friends I ever knew forever. As old as I am it would "wipe away" any time I've lost. I've been on this road long enough and have tough times ahead with FFS, legal changes, etc. So if something scientific came along like a body swap, I'd be the first in line.
I have talked with different FtM's since 1987 in most discussions we agreed if we had each met before or early in HRT and it had been possible to do the swap we would have donit isn a second, not one of us had a hesitation.
and one of my FtM friends had Lupus - I still would have done it
For me, no, I would not swap to another persons body. I would press the old 'instant woman' button, but not swap into a new body.
If I could swap into a vat grown clone of myself genetically the same but fully female, yes I would.
I just could not bring myself to do it. I mean despite the fact I could finally be the woman I feel myself to be, it still would not be me. I have my mother's eyes, looking into the mirror and never seeing that connection to her would be even more hearbreaking. It would be completely severing the connection to my family and past; like I would be denying myself in the pursuit of the correct gender.
In short, I would be trading one wrong body for another. If I'm going to be a woman, to quote Sammy Davis Jr., "I gotta be me!"
Quote from: vegie271 on July 09, 2013, 11:04:39 PM
I have talked with different FtM's since 1987 in most discussions we agreed if we had each met before or early in HRT and it had been possible to do the swap we would have donit isn a second, not one of us had a hesitation.
and one of my FtM friends had Lupus - I still would have done it
Quote from: CaseyB on August 04, 2013, 05:57:03 AM
I would consider it if there was:
1.Extensive background checks and medical tests on both parties to ensure you are not becoming a wanted person or someone that will die in 3 weeks and
2.The ability to back out of the deal by either party and swap back if unhappy, sort of a buyers remorse policy, give it 90 days or something.
notice just how different our requirements are - I am pretty desperate - I really want this - I would actually put up with anything
Quote from: CaseyB on August 04, 2013, 10:07:36 AM
I wouldn't say that from this you were more desperate than I am. I would much rather be myself and work through the steps needed to be able to do that than to take the risk of getting into something that may end up not solving the issue at hand or possibly adding extra identity issues or problems that I don't necessarily have to deal with if I go the usual route.
but see - that is it - I ALREADY feel I am in the wrong body - any body that is female is going to be better than this one ;D
When I was younger I thought this would be great. But as I get older I realize I wouldn't do it! My body may not be perfectly feminine but it's my body and I take good care of it. I've noticed most of my friends my age are having health problems I'm not having. I'm very lucky in that regard. So I would stick with this body it may be male but it's been good to this girl. ;)
me and one of my friends have already thought that idea for long ago as we almost are the same age and time on homones.
I wouldn't like to shift life with her in 100 of years, it just dosen't seams as something for me. if we only speak bodys then I have consider it but honestly I Like my body pretty well. I am normal size white got blue/gray eyes, and she is small asian and with black hair and eyes.
She wasnt badlooking before transition but still I I think it would be very wierd to change look and race complitely and I do not dislike my look so I guess I go with no, so far, but maybe if it had been someone who looked more simmular to my current look and I liked the general body and so on?
yeah i would be so much happier if that were possible.. not if it was an obese person's body though.. i'd have to have a fast metabolism so i can just sit on my ass all day and eat like i do now
Quote from: iamconfused on August 15, 2013, 04:23:15 PM
yeah i would be so much happier if that were possible.. not if it was an obese person's body though.. i'd have to have a fast metabolism so i can just sit on my ass all day and eat like i do now
oh no - I would really rather an active life if I had the choice - I am sick of sitting around all the time - I despise feeling useless
No.
For the simple reason that I wouldn't wish for anyone else to suffer by being in my body.
I'd do it. Then I'd feel legitimately physically female rather than a male seeking to transform my own body to that of a female.
The body is just a car. You can modify the car in various ways. If the car gets damaged then unless the damage is terminal, you can fix it.
The brain is the driver, and that is really the only important part. So would I (the driver) allow myself to be put into a better car that is more to my tastes? Absolutely yes.
My friend who is ftm and I would trade bodies in a heartbeat! We are both healthy and active!
No. Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
If I did not have my wife and kids to consider then I would do it without a thought or a regret. It would fulfill everything I dreamed of.
I would do it, if I got to be me again - as much as I want to be female - Over the years Ive settled on that. Hehe weird yes I use not be this way and would day dream about being any number of cute/pretty girls in the past.
Hopefully if they are able to transfer bodies, maybe we have working cloning, and thus also clone female versions of our selves and thus transfer said mind into said female version of one self..
k I am rambling in dream world now ignore me!
-exits quietly to the left-
Assuming I got to keep my memories and knowledge intact, I would do it in a heartbeat. I would still be me, only living in a body I would be more comfortable with. This hypothetical thought experiment has quite wide ranging consequences though.. imagine a world where anyone can sell their body to someone who desires it (young beggars body swapping with elderly rich?). Pure chaos :)
For the experiment itself, I don't really see how this is so fundamentally different from the old 'Go to bed wishing I was [gender of choice]' idea.. I mean, obviously both parties would need access to full medical records and the ability to veto but other than that, dream come true.