gender play<........................cd..tv.........................>ts.....>Post-op ts
^
me
Hi Deb,
good question....
so where am i?
um... all over the place? in the middle, sort of in the cd/tv range I guess, though that is generally an mtf designation only... for more thoughts on this, see my (forthcoming) post in Shelley's thread on the TG continuum.*
Alex
* right, so I just fell asleep at my desk.. it's 4 am here... I'll reply to the other thread on monday. (sunday 20 Nov=TG Day of Remembrance, which is already today, so I guess I'll observe silence starting now)
*peace*
What's beyond the right hand end of that spectrum?
Girl in a deformed body, got it fixed, no longer TS ;D
Hey that's clever Melissa
Here's my try
gender play<........................cd..tv.........................>ts.....>Post-op ts
^
me
Shelley
I'm not exactly sure where I fall on the line but I think I'm about here:
gender play<........................cd..tv.........................>ts.....>Post-op ts
^
me
down the road>>>>>
I'm not sure where
the path will lead..
Quote "down the road>>>>>
I'm not sure where
the path will lead.. "
Ahh, an open Lisabeth,
I think you will find that helpful here.
Shelley
OK. I am out of the loop here, I admit.
Can someone tell me why transsexual is separate from post-op transsexual on your TG line?
Surgery changes physical sex, not gender role, so why are the two designations seen as separate?
And why is ->-bleeped-<- separate from CD? Aren't they the same thing? Does a TV dress in the opposite clothing more often? Hmmm?
I am old school, and in the old days, there were only ->-bleeped-<-s, no transsexuals.
Just curious? Or nosey depending on your POV? ???
Even more importantly, why does it matter?
I too do not know where the road will lead. I feel a great deal of trepidation just thinking about it, although it consumes a much higher percentage of my conscious thought than ever before.
gender play<........................cd..tv.........................>ts.....>Post-op ts
^
me
Nobody else knows, and probably not very many suspect the truth. :'(
Hi Thundra,
Well, I was just trying to show it as a 'spectrum' but maybe this would be better:
genderplay>........................<cd/tv>....................>ts.
Why does it matter? Its for self-defining.....mostly for us who feel we are somewhere in the un-named middle places.
All the >...................... has no terms.
Love
DebTV.
Hi Deb,
I'm too sure yet. But I've growing longer fingernails and hair.
Also I'm continually removing most of my (ugly) body hair, even if I'm not dressing up.
I often find myself daydreaming about being physically female.
I guess I'm close too
genderplay>........................<cd/tv>....................>ts
^
here today. :)
Jillieann
Quote from: Thundra on November 20, 2005, 02:08:41 PM
I am old school, and in the old days, there were only ->-bleeped-<-s, no transsexuals.
Even more importantly, why does it matter?
Oh there were transsexuals alright, and tvs and cds and genderqueer and all of the gender spectrum that the powers-that-be were too ignorant or unwilling to recognize. This is a dead point of view, why would you even bring it up?
Why does it matter? I don't think it does. I think this was just for the hell of it. I've almost finished my transition and I'm a woman. I refuse to identify as TS after SRS.
Dawn
gender play<........................cd..tv.........................>ts.....>Post-op ts...............woman
^
We could play with this all day. How about this?
gender play<................cd..tv...............>ts.....Pre-op ts.....>Post-op ts............woman
^
moi
You have some TS who are in the acceptance phase. They know who they are but haven't begun to do anything about it yet.
Cassie
Why,
Cause some of us find it interesting, some of are curious and some of us like to talk about these things.
Pretty simple really.
Shelley
Me as well
gender play<................cd..tv...............>ts.....Pre-op ts.....>Post-op ts............woman
^
Me
Steph
WWotN
Well, for me, I'm OFF the scale but before post- op. Ican't
imagine it any higher before SRS.
I guess I am up near the high end as I am on the mones, been on 3 years. I am at a good comfort level with that but wanting to transition at work and be more active in the trans-community. Don't know if my SO will accept that and hope we are still together at this time next year, I really do love her and she is dealing with the " but I am not a lesbian" thing. If I have to have a label I guess TG would be my choice, don't think I wanna go the GRS route at this point I am getting a bit old and that might finish off any relationship I do have right now..
I have held off commenting on this line as long as I could
gender play<....cd tv...ts...pr op ts...post op ts.....post with ffs....post with bone reduction surgery....post with ovary implants...post with uterus implant..add nauseum...>woman?
beth
Where am I?
Stuck between possible and what seems impossible.
Practically accepted as a CD with my immedicate family.
Emotionally male middle female
me
female skills preteen adult female
me
passibility not acceptable
me
psychological identity female with lots of male emotional corruption
half way between here and there with no idea of where here and there are
gender play<................cd..tv...............>ts.....Pre-op ts.....>Post-op ts............woman
|.................|
moi
I am not sure exactly where I fit in, thus the range. My therapist would place me more to the left of my spectrum. According to her, I don't exibit the personality chacteristics she has seen in her TS clients. However, she understands that my desire to be female is far more than simple erotica. She simply isn't convinced that I would be happy being female 24/7.
I have a much boader view as to who I am. I DO know that my personal view on who I am used to be much broader than what it is now. This was when I first started to accept me for who I am - a unique individual with a different view on gender than the mainstream public. Over the past couple of years, as i have learned more about myself, my window has narrowed to what I have shown above. The more I learn about myself, the narrower the window will become.
Chaunte
Hi Deb,
I think I need to revise mine from this:
gender play<........................cd..tv.........................>ts.....>Post-op ts
^
where I thought I was
to this:
gender play<........................cd..tv.........................>ts.....>Post-op ts
^
where I think I may be now
I think I am learning more about myself through conversations with all of you. I appreciate everyone's constructive thoughts. Talk to you soon!
Lisabeth
QuoteEven more importantly, why does it matter?
QuoteWhy does it matter? I don't think it does. I think this was just for the hell of it. I've almost finished my transition and I'm a woman. I refuse to identify as TS after SRS.
Well ya know, it doesn't really matter at all, just a topic with a question, seems pretty harmless :)
Steph
gender play<................cd..tv...............>ts.....Pre-op ts.....>Post-op ts............man
^ --->
me
Moving to the right, but still not settled in my social identity. (Have avoided tobacco chewing and turkey shoots, but do have a tendency to watch sports in my boxers with a beer.)
Dennis
Okay, I'll take up random spitting instead ;)
Dennis
Quote from: Dennis on November 28, 2005, 03:09:51 PM
gender play<................cd..tv...............>ts.....Pre-op ts.....>Post-op ts............man
^ --->
me
Moving to the right, but still not settled in my social identity. (Have avoided tobacco chewing and turkey shoots, but do have a tendency to watch sports in my boxers with a beer.)
Dennis
If you're having sports in your boxers, you are far to the right!!! ;D
beth
gender play<................cd..tv...............>ts.....Pre-op ts.....>Post-op ts............woman
^
Me
QuoteOkay, I'll take up random spitting instead
Hey Dennis? you know tobacco products, in any form isn't all that great for you so just learning to spit will get by wonderfully. Very, Very, uh, masculine I guess. I got into that while in Colorado many years ago. It was fun, buy a can of Copenhagen and a bottle of pepermint snops and load that chew up. Yeah it was nasty, especially when I swallowed it, perhaps it was the snops, but it tasted great, got me feeling good and I could spit like a professional, finally got tired of it though. consuming a pint a day along with my chew got a little distracting ......
where at on a scale? what scale? I see it as man or woman ... and I don't chew tobacco or spit anymore, my panties get in a bunch when I'm pissed, so guess what?
Terri
Oh sure, why not! This is fun ;D
gender play<................cd..tv...............>ts.....Pre-op ts.....>Post-op ts............woman
^
Jane
Why?
Having had 24 years as a spy in "male-dom" and now 32 years in "female-dom" I think I have been able to bring to women's awareness a lot of the subtle discriminations that a lot of GGs probably weren't aware of. I wouldn't say I am a feminist but most certainly a campeigner for equal opportunity. I've yet to meet a barrier I couldn't leave dents in! :o
I have done just about everything a GG can do (except the obvious) and a lot more besides. I have never been afraid of taking the unconventional path, trying something that "isn't feminine" and - you know what? - when a woman does something that "isn't feminine" and does it with confidence in her womanhood, it BECOMES feminine >:D There needs be nothing "unfeminine" about spending a day in coveralls and an evening in a ball gown ;)
BTW: 24 years as a spy didn't do diddly for my understanding of the male of the species ::)
Quote from: Northern Jane on December 01, 2005, 07:08:27 AM
...and - you know what? - when a woman does something that "isn't feminine" and does it with confidence in her womanhood, it BECOMES feminine >:D There needs be nothing "unfeminine" about spending a day in coveralls and an evening in a ball gown ;)
No truer words have ever been spoken about crashing gender barriers. I learnt this from a freind who identifies as genderqueer. His/her ( she doesn't care) philosophy was to do something considered male and then tell herself, "I'm doing it, I'm a woman, it's no longer just a male thing." In reverse, I then was able to accept the many "male" things I had done in my life as perfectly acceptable for the female I really was. Part of my transition has been about crashing the gender barriers in my own head.
Dawn
I always felt like a woman, been more comfortable around women, and been more comfortable talking to women.
I am a woman on the spectrum I would say.
gender play<................cd..tv...............>ts.....Pre-op ts.....>Post-op ts............woman i'd say Tv, but i want to be a woman, but seeing as how apparentley my "family" who don;'t even know what this is for mesay i'm better tyhe way i am, i'n never gonna get to be that far.
On the spectrum ts is more just figured it out pre-op is at least planning on doing something positive about it.
Cassie
gender play<................cd..tv...............>ts.....Pre-op ts.....>Post-op ts............woman
CD with an androgynous personality. Absolutely no desire to transition. If I had to answer this question twenty or thirty years ago I do not know if my anw\swer would have been the same.
QuoteIt sounds like pre-op is just more specific, but somebody can be pre-op if their planning on the surgery and have figured out they are TS.
Kinda, a pre-op person by todays definitions and expectations doesn't necessarily actually want to be a woman, or a man. It simply means the person wants a vagina or appear and act as a man. and neither birth sex men or women actually need HRT if they can find a Dr. willing to do it with that in regard. A TS also by todays standards doesn't necessarily want to be a woman or man, just wants people to think they are a woman or man at all times, just when they want them to thank that, so in that respect, both are not necessarily women/men or even want to be.
Older standards define a Transsexual as a TS, was a Preop and a full time woman/man and wanted to face the world as a woman or man at all times and forever.
Just an observation from an old time TS and pre-op from old school definitions of those terms. But then, women are women and men are men. Sorry about that.
Terri
I just had a thought that tickled me.
Please pardon my irreverence here but if the answer is transition then it must have been a pretty silly question in the first place I'm thinking. :) :) :)
Shelley
Well, as you have made no desire known to you to transition yes, it would be silly to. It only does any good for those who actually need it so you just keep thinking of it as a silly question, you will be happier in the long run if you don't feel the need.
Terri
Sorry,
Should have known better than to post that. I was thinking of the correlation between the statement that if war is the answer then it must have been a silly question.
I was actually drawing the correlation between the internal struggle of a TS and that of war. Again I apologise for my irreverence it was meant to be an ironic statement not to offend.
Quotepre-op person by todays definitions and expectations doesn't necessarily actually want to be a woman, or a man.
I have to disagree. Todays definitions can go to heck. If you have no desire to be the gender to which you identify then you are not TS. Lets not blur the lines. Some destinctions do need to be drawn otherwise what are you talking about? A CD is someone who presents as a woman and does not wish to become a woman, or man as the case may be. You either are or you are not. If you are pre-op then you are planning on going through with the transition to it's ultimate outcome. Desire has nothing to do with it. It is as I have said before we are salmon swimming upstearm to the spawning ground, we either make it or die trying. I can not accept someone as being a preop TS if they have no desire to go through with it. They are just CD. Not that there is anything wrong with that they are just not TS.
Cassie
Cassie, I have an agreement with what you say but I'm smart enough to realize that what I condisider the right thing to do in these respects isn't right for some others and as I understand them, they do have thier needs even if I understand them or not. Please try to look at them in that respect and try to learn from those who can be honest with who and what they are. It'll make you a happier person.
Terri
Quote from: Terri-Gene on December 17, 2005, 03:45:07 AM
...a pre-op person by todays definitions and expectations doesn't necessarily actually want to be a woman, or a man...a TS also by todays standards doesn't necessarily want to be a woman or man, just wants people to think they are a woman or man at all times...both are not necessarily women/men or even want to be.
I just gotta disagree. It's the damned label thing again. Within the trans community--without fully defining what that means--the labels become a bit meaningless since this is supposed to be about self-identification. There is constant bickering and a lot of people who want to call themselves transsexuals as if this is a badge of some sort (we don't need no stinkin' badges) which is nuts. Outside the trans community, most people don't have a clue of the difference between TS, TG, gender bending, or genderqueer. A fair amount still think trans = weird or freakshow or drag queen.
Having said that, I subscribe to the Webster's definition of a transsexual:
1. a person having the strong desire to assume the physical characteristics and gender role of the opposite sex.
2. a person who has undergone hormone treatment and surgery to attain the physical characteristics of the opposite sex.
...and so your definitions above fail. If that's what passes for a definition on the street, fine, but it is otherwise meaningless.
IMO, if you don't fit these definitions, you ain't TS, you're TG or whatever you decide to call yourself. Why does this matter? We do need boundaries and definitions to qualify for and set guidelines for medical treatment. If GID is a DSM disorder or a biological disorder, then we need to define it to get treatment for it: therapy, hormones, and surgery. If you don't do this, if you let anyone call themselves a transsexual and let that in part define transsexuality, then you'll risk treatment being denied as not being medically necessary. They'll look at all the kooks and non-ops who want to call themselves transsexuals and say, "See? They don't need surgery so neither do you."
So I don't think some guy who wears a dress every Saturday night has any right to call him/herself a transsexual woman. A person *has* to have the burning desire to transition up to and including surgery otherwise they are TG.
Quote from: Terri-Gene on December 17, 2005, 10:20:03 PM
Cassie, I have an agreement with what you say but I'm smart enough to realize that what I condisider the right thing to do in these respects isn't right for some others and as I understand them, they do have thier needs even if I understand them or not. Please try to look at them in that respect and try to learn from those who can be honest with who and what they are. It'll make you a happier person. Terri
Are you serious? I'm not dissing anyone or suggesting I'm superior and I don't think Cassie was either. Sometimes the definitions need to exist even if they squash somebody's toes and hurt their feelings. That is just way too politcially correct for me.
BTW, I'm a happy person :angel:
Dawn
I agree with parts of what everyone has posted and not all that any one person has.
I feel the the HBSOC has gone overboard in their efforts to be inclusive as to who is or could be treated (or not) as a transexual.
Non op---If there is a valid medical reason why someone could not do hrt and/or surgery then I can understand why they should be included as TS. I cannot accept any other reason. If you can do hrt and surgery but choose not to then in my view they are simply a full time cross dresser which is not in any way a put down to those who are upfront about being a cd.
pre-op--If a person lives full time, does hrt, and whose goal is surgey then yes they too are or should be considered transexual. If the same person stops before surgery and wants to retain the male genetalia for what ever reason, they are neither male nor female in my view. The simple definition of transition is moving from one point to another, not stopping in the middle unless that middle point was the destination that they had in mind all the time.
post op--Just because a person lives full time, did hrt and sugery does not mean that they have transitioned, just that they have altered their physical being and presentation to female. Only when a person lives, works, socializes, and is accepted has that person transitioned from male bodied to female to woman.
Remember the ducks.
Controversial-yes. Did I cover every possible combination-not hardly. We all have the right to define ourselves as long as that definition does not include others who may have a different view.
Leigh
:D I'll just stick with the term Woman. Yep it's an umberala term but after all it's who I am and it's one that I'm most comfortable with, and it's easy enough to understand. :D
Steph
Quote from: melissa_girl on December 18, 2005, 02:18:17 PM
From my understanding, it sounds like TS is more of a general term for either pre-op, post-op on non-op. Perhaps a person hasn't decided which category they fall under yet and that would make them just TS.
No, TS (transsexual) is intended as specific term as defined in my previous post. It is further broken into two groups, pre-op (a TS in transition who has not had SRS) and post-op (a TS in transition who has had SRS). People don't decide what category they fall under, that is determined by their actions--they've had surgery or they haven't. It's generally accepted that there must be a strong desire for surgery so non-ops can't really be considered transsexuals. These people say surgery isn't necessary to define one's self as a woman and it is these same people who may be a threat to future medical coverage for SRS. Since those people can get by without surgery, the logic will go, no one really needs surgery. Except for a medical reason, if you chose to be non-op I think you should be considered TG and not TS. As far as being "just TS", if you're TS, you're aiming for surgery just as you're compelled to transition. You don't decide, it's pre-ordained.
Dawn
Quote from: melissa_girl on December 18, 2005, 03:13:36 PM
Dawn, does that mean pre-op TS is the same thing as "just TS"?
Well "just TS" can have several meanings as in "she's just a shade over that 'ol TS line, barely squeeky out of that TG group" OR "just TS" can be dismissive as in "she's just TS and not worth another thought" OR "just TS" can oversimplify in suggesting pre-op or post-op don't have any real meaning.
As to the first, there are shades of everything so there are people who are "just TS" and a shade past TG, whatever that means, but that isn't the same thing as pre-op given that pre-ops are still intending surgery. Given that pre-ops and post-ops exist, the TS spectrum can't be reduced past that. I'm sure you didn't intend any dismissive meaning. Did that answer your question or just sound hopelessly confusing? :icon_confused:
Dawn, Like I mentioned in the prior post to cassie. I am in agreement with her, you and so on about what a TS is. It is a male or female bodied person who seeks and desires to live full time in female or male mind and body. I was very well known for that opinion for years here. I have no problem with that definition.
The problem I have with this truth in such conversations these days is that all such conversations led to in my experience with this site was that it cause a lot of heat, frustration and further arguments on this site. As a matter of fact, I myself was permanantly banned for around a year and a half from this site because of all the trouble I caused with some of my statements on this matter. These days, the site is heavily visited by TS's were as then it was mostly CD's and so now is more easy to make such statements and not disrupt the flow of the site and occassionally people do it.
Point being is that this is a support site, and although I myself am in total disagreement with persons calling themselves woman when all they are is a male in a dress but don't like to be called that, so I believe that if someone has an opinion then yes, it should be stated and talked about, but it should not be discussed in such a way as to belittle or take down those who do not take the TRUE TS desire and need. TS's are so totally different from TG types but we are simply gpomg tp have to grin and bear that fact or find a site that is totally for TS and tell anyone who is not they can't join. I can remember off susans discussions about such a thing often enough, but there is no way we can prove TS or not in this kind of environment so how to do it?.
I simply wish we could not publically discuss such issues here in public because there are people here who have thier own needs which I or others don't understand and don't visit or hang out with in public. There is always PM or IM/email for such things. Meanwhile in public, we can state our views and not create emotional problems for others we can not help or identify with.
MELISSA: Don't even worry about Pre-op aand TS differences. I think we have established that most TS's hold the belief that it is all one and the same, a person wishing and willing to have HRT and SRS to become Women and to live as women and only as women for the rest of thier lives. If you are able to go into and complete the necessary cycle to do this, be happy for your own work to do so and consider whatever you like about those who don't fit into your own desires.
And I mean that to everybody
Terri
gender play<........................cd..tv.........................>ts. :D(here)....>Post-
op ts...............man
QuoteIt's generally accepted that there must be a strong desire for surgery so non-ops can't really be considered transsexuals.
I have stared at that quote for about 20 minutes trying to put into words exactly how I feel. However, whatever I have to say on the subject makes me sound crazy.
So, after 20 minutes, and a thousand thoughts, I will just say that I think I disagree.
Jessica
I agree with the disagreement. Many FtM's choose not to have bottom surgery at all because of the expensive, imperfect options available. Some also choose not to have top surgery, perhaps because they don't need it, being flat-chested anyway, or because of expense, or other personal reasons. They're still TS by any reasonable definition.
Dennis
I like the number 1 quote from the HBSOC that Melissa put in her message.
I always have trouble with people getting so caught up in Terms.
Sarah L.
For me, how the transgender spectrum looked, depended on where I was:
Before hearing there was such a thing as transsexualism, it looked like this:
man<...................................................................................................................>woman
moi
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Beginning transition, the transgender spectrum looked like this to me:
man<...............gender play<..................cd..tv...............>ts......Post-op ts...............>woman
moi
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Now, after SRS, to me it looks kind of like this:
.......................................................man<...>woman.......................................................
moi
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Maurice Chevalier always said, "Vive le difference." I've just become suspicious that, today, the genders are a lot closer than
society imagines. And getting closer each day. Vive la liberte!
Dennis: I posted this
QuoteIf there is a valid medical reason why someone could not do hrt and/or surgery
My apologies to the men. In no way did I ever intend to include you.
The surgery is absolutely over priced, appearence and function are just not where surgery is for women. I understand why only top surgery and a hysterectomey are done in most cases.
When I was going for surgery two friends gave me $500 in case I ran short of cash overseas. When I tried to return it I was told to pay it forward, the next person I knew who truly needed help was to get it. A man that I know (I had no idea until his partner told me) was trying to raise money for top surgery by having yard sales and doing benefits. He got it with the same instructions, pay it forward.
Leigh
Yes, I suppose we could amend it so that if surgery was available and functional, would you do it. I would, in a heartbeat. I still haven't decided against the imperfect options.
I must say, the balance works out well. It would be nice if all of us could have all of what we want, but at least there's not one side that clearly does better in transition than the other. FtM's pass more easily, sooner. MtF's have way better surgical options for a complete transition.
Dennis
I am a boy. But, sometimes I wish I could be a girl still acting like a boy and liking girls. So I wanna be a lesbian. If I do this, I could be a good swimwear model.
Where am I on the gender spectrum?
Dunno, still movin' - but definitely movin' - I don't think I've landed yet . . . . .
Hey, kgh91, I'm glad you found us and decided to post. We encourage people to tell us about themselves in the Introductions forum https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?board=8.0 so we can get to know them a little better, as long as they feel comfortable about it. Even if you don't, you're welcome to keep reading and learning about this stuff. I did for a long time and it's really helped me figure things out. The other parts of the site (Links, library, Wiki, etc) are full of good things too. I'll be looking forward to reading more about you soon.
helen
unhappy person------------------------------ts----------post op
^
me
(almost there ;))
tinkerbell
I need to revise my answer too Deb.
This is what I said in November.
QuoteHi Deb,
I'm too sure yet. But I've growing longer fingernails and hair.
Also I'm continually removing most of my (ugly) body hair, even if I'm not dressing up.
I often find myself daydreaming about being physically female.
I guess I'm close too
genderplay>........................<cd/tv>....................>ts
^
Now I'd say I'm over here
genderplay>........................<cd/tv>....................>ts
^
What a differents a few months makes.
I'm not really changing just finding out who I am.
Who knows what another few months will reveal.
[/i]Life IS a journey.[/i]
:)
Jillieann
Quote from: Jillieann on June 22, 2006, 08:38:26 PM
I need to revise my answer too Deb.
This is what I said in November.
Now I'd say I'm over here
genderplay>........................<cd/tv>....................>ts
^
What a differents a few months makes.
I'm not really changing just finding out who I am.
Who knows what another few months will reveal.
[/i]Life IS a journey.[/i]
:)
Jillieann
Hi Jillieann:
I'm so very happy for you. Because of your words, I can only say that you're flourishing into this beautiful creature whose name is JILLIEANN!!! :eusa_clap:
tinkerbell
OK
I have just told you all I am afraid and if I had to sum it up this thread is why I am worried. This is where I think I am now.
genderplay>........................<cd/tv>....................>ts
^
:( :( :(
Alice
PS I hope I am wrong
yes- I am totaly confused.
I hope another chart explains it ;).
Alice
gender play<........................cd............................tg.........................>ts.....>Post-op ts
^
me
Post-op. Playing, living, working, 24/7/365 as a woman, mostly stealth...
Sometimes I have to stop and pinch myself that I've got to this stage. This doesn't mean that there are further challenges ahead; just that the real heavy lifting has been done.
Spectrums can be a bit one-dimensional. I'm inclined to think of us all more in a 2 or 3-dimensional space with more axis than just a line, and am recently becoming especially wary of the easy labelling of people into clearly defined categories. We've all been through various stages along the road...
I'm thither and yon, as they say. Mostly, I'm a male with some extreme feminine tendencies, which I am attempting to work into my daily life.
It's all about baby steps.
Oh my I couldn't resist this thread to see what trouble my thought and views might get me into ;D
so here it goes.
The Transgender spectrum!
Man ............ CD ..........................................................TV...............Man
The Transexual spectrum!
Transwoman/Transmen
Man/Woman ....... T acceptance ............ HRT ............ Surgory(s) ............
Woman/Men
Transexuals DON'T belong in the Transgender Pot plain and simple. While we may have pychological
issues the main issue is that we DO NOT match physically with our mental/emotional selves!
I get really P*ssed when I hear people say Oh yeah I'm a transexual and then say well I can't do
HRT because of ( Lame excuses here ) and I won't or can't have surgory because of ( More Lame excuses here ). Occasionally a real transexual will be in this catagory but I think its very rare indeed!
Byee,
Brina
gender play<........................cd..tv.........................>ts.....>Post-op ts
^-------^
me
Still working on my identity, and it seems to vary daily. hmmmmmm.
Hi,
I am definitely pre-op ts. I have been on hormones 3 months now and therapy for about 6 months.
gender play<........................cd..tv.........................>ts..Pre-Op...>Post-op ts
Tricia
^
Quote from: brina on November 29, 2006, 08:41:35 AM
I get really P*ssed when I hear people say Oh yeah I'm a transexual and then say well I can't do
HRT because of ( Lame excuses here ) and I won't or can't have surgory because of ( More Lame excuses here ). Occasionally a real transexual will be in this catagory but I think its very rare indeed!
How about this:
Oh yeah I'm a transsexual. Well I can't have surgery because I haven't been in RLT long enough and also haven't saved up enough money yet. ;) Lame enough excuses? Of course,
when I do meet those requirements, then of course I'll have it.
Honestly though, the whole idea of a specturm is stupid because all it does is engender competition rather than cooperation amongst us.
Melissa
Hiee Melissa,
I chose the word 'LAME' specifically. I'm sorry your feeling in such a Fiesty????? mood. My problem with spectrums comes from being included within the Transgender Spectrum which for the most part appears to be made up of MEN!
Byee,
Brina
Oh, it was no criticism to you brina, it was just to the whole idea of the spectrum in the first place (not specifically yours). As for being a little fiesty, yeah, sometimes I can be >:D, but that's just me. ;) It's all in good spirits.
Melissa
Quote from: brina on November 29, 2006, 03:51:17 PM
Hiee Melissa,
I chose the word 'LAME' specifically. I'm sorry your feeling in such a Fiesty????? mood. My problem with spectrums comes from being included within the Transgender Spectrum which for the most part appears to be made up of MEN!
Byee,
Brina
I hate Conflict Brina but to write us all of as simple guys does not understand what I have been through this year. I was confused about my gender a few months back - glad I figures out I am not TS. I still do not know why I like to wear skirts and dresses - something that has been with me for the last 25 years. I have tried so many times to get rid of this feeling - it has lead to depression with my cousellor say it is OK to wear my skirts. It is not as simple as being a guy.
We has big discussion a while back about the difference between a TS and a TG person - I do not want to get into that debate again. Neededless to day I think we share more in common then you think.
Alice
Hiee Alice,
First I was not writting anyone OFF. I also am not saying that Transexuals are superior in anyway. I am saying that Transexuals Identify completely differently then the majority of the Transgendered populace if not all. I identify as being a female and have chemically and surgically altered my body to now be female. Within the coming year I will surgically alter my body to resemble a natal female. I live and work as a female daily and have been doing so for some time now. I simply don't think it is proper that I should be included in a group that is comprised primarily of males. I have drawn heat from this in the past from various transgendered usually it seemed crossdressers and ->-bleeped-<-s. Those individuals have always seemed worried about the day when transexuals might NO longer be included within the Transgender Grouping, and I really have to wonder WHY. We are after all a fairly insignificant number amonst ALL transgendered individuals, BUT we also SEEM to be the most VISABLE. Personally I feel there is an ulterior motive why transexuals are wanted to be kept within
the Transgendered community.
Byee,
Brina
While I agree that there is a definite separation between TS and TG, I do not agree with grouping separately. I also don't agree with Taking the T out of GLBT. My reasons for this are simple. We are all humans and if people viewed us all as humans with our own uniquenesses, then we wouldn't have the problem of people having trouble accepting us for who we are. In other words if we were viewed without the context of gender, then there is no reason we should be treated differently than anyone else. It's kind of the world peace concept, but on a smaller scale. We need to work together as people and not worry about those miniscule differences if we are to gain acceptance.
Melissa
Quote from: Melissa on November 29, 2006, 03:09:39 PM
Honestly though, the whole idea of a specturm is stupid because all it does is engender competition rather than cooperation amongst us.
Its the TS food chain all over again. I do think some distinction is different, since the needs of the individuals differ; but in its present form, its only used by us to discriminate against us. The rest of society has to do little more then let us cannabilize ourselves.
gender play<........................cd..tv.........................>ts.....>Post-op ts
^
me
I guess I'm a full time tv since I only wear women's clothes full time pants , tops varius styles , bras everything a woman would wear except I don't try to look like one could not pass anyway.
primary preop ts, not for so long though, surprises are on the way! ;)
Quote from: Tinkerbell on March 04, 2007, 02:34:49 AM
Quote from: Katia on March 04, 2007, 12:18:38 AM
primary preop ts, not for so long though, surprises are on the way! ;)
Oh really? is there something you are not telling us? ;D
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
yeahhhhh....there is. ;)
Quote from: tinkP.S. Katia, I was also considered by many therapists to be a primary transsexual, but now that I am post-operative; does that make me a primary woman? >:D
primary ts = primary preop ts = primary postop ts = primary woman
if you're a primary ts, you'll always be primary. :angel:
Quote from: Tinkerbell on March 04, 2007, 02:34:49 AM
Where am I in the transgender spectrum?
I am not in any TG spectrum anymore. My life has been like this:
Miserable childhood--------------Teen years, even more miserable-----------------------Early twenties, pre-op TS----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------post-opEnd of the TG Spectrum and beginning of womanhood----------------------------infinity
^
ME
So there!
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
Tinkerbell - a Wonderfull Lady. An Inspriation to every TG Person
I am so glad to learn that people can do away with the TG spectrim - that GID does go away. I wish I was close to that.
Alice
Quote from: brina on November 29, 2006, 10:16:49 PM
I simply don't think it is proper that I should be included in a group that is comprised primarily of males. I have drawn heat from this in the past from various transgendered usually it seemed crossdressers and ->-bleeped-<-s. Those individuals have always seemed worried about the day when transexuals might NO longer be included within the Transgender Grouping, and I really have to wonder WHY. We are after all a fairly insignificant number amonst ALL transgendered individuals, BUT we also SEEM to be the most VISABLE. Personally I feel there is an ulterior motive why transexuals are wanted to be kept within
the Transgendered community.
Brina, so by your logic, as someone who spends the majority of my life in male mode I should not have bothered sending an e-mail to the Largo City Commission in support of City Manager Susan Stanton being fired for transtioning, should not have bothered sending a letter to the pastor of the church in Largo that said, "If Jesus was in this room tonight, He would want him (Stanton) fired," nor should I send what meager support I can to the National Center for Transgender Equality since most of the work they do is really for transexuals? After all, as a "fairly insignificant number," I'm sure any type of lobbying you do will carry a lot more weight than from a larger group. I'm glad to know I shouldn't bother supporting supporting TS's when they need it as it will save me a little time and money.
Beverly
Quote from: Debtv on November 19, 2005, 08:32:13 PM
gender play<........................cd..tv.........................>ts.....>Post-op ts
^
I'm probably just to the right of center but to use a simple scale such as this is an over simplication as applies to most of us. Everyone has their own specific story, motivation, and desires. Reana[/b][/i][/color]
I don't fit anywhere on this scale, as far as I can tell. I consider myself an androgyne. I dress however I feel like, whether that means wearing flowing skirts, baggy cargo pants, or anything else. That's not "gender play" to me, that's just living. I don't crossdress -- to me crossdressing means wearing clothes in such a way as to imitate the opposite sex. I don't do that. I don't plan to do anything to my body that would put me on the transsexual end of the scale, and I have no idea what differentiates "->-bleeped-<-" from "crossdresser" other than that one was made up by an early psychologist because it was in Latin and so sounded more scientific.
Emotionally I am women, physically stuck with my male body, clothing work make believe male and home totally female inside, and dyke outside. Life isn't simple, I have been brought up to change what I can and accept what I have to. So far I have to accept being a female driving a male body and being as feminine as I can without creating unnecessary hassle or physical danger for my familyand in my life. I am a 61 year old adult child of alchololics and MtoF transgender. I define me and not the world around me. At one time I could only dream of wearing a bra and now it is a normal part of my life and so are skirts and panty hose and panties my normal cloths. Where do I fit? Where does anybody?
Very good and relevant question.
Gender play..........CD/TV...........TS..........Pre-op TS..........Post-op TS..........Congruant man/woman
[in the past] [me today]
It was difficult to pinpoint a place on the scale. I had to think long and hard about it.
In the past I would have percieved myself much more to the left, but it seems that the more I learn about myself, the more I am at ease with myself, the more honest I am about myself, the more I allow my feminine side to flourish and express itself, the more I move to the right. Will I keep moving in that direction? Will I find a niche/definition where I happily and confidently belong? Who knows?
Life is a journey. On my personal voyage of self discovery, self acceptance and self expression I might visit and stop momentarily in more than one harbour on the way until I eventually reach my destination and settle in my chosen homeport.
Life is exciting and full of surprises. :icon_dance:
LLL&R
Maebh
PS. Brina, holiest than thou and smug judge of the plebeian populace ??? when will you grow-up?
The TG community is a motley population of individuals, with different experiences, hopes, desires and challenges. At great cost to humanity, The Inquisition, Fascim and Stalinism have eventually been relegated to the dustbin/trashcan of ideologies, political alternatives and social experiments.
Unfortunatly some people never learn and still insist in trying to mould others beliefs, attitudes and action to their narrow definition of truth.
Pre-opTS.............................................................>Post-opTS
^
7 months three days until the big day..
gender play<........................cd..tv.........................>ts.....>Post-op ts
^
ME!
Anyway that's where I am. I am pre-everything, but hopefully this summer I'll be able to laser out my beard and then get my HRT in the fall (or earlier if I can).
CD<.......TV.........TS .........Pre-Op.....Post Op.......>
^
ME 6 months on HRT
Quote from: Alice on August 07, 2006, 07:43:42 PM
OK
I have just told you all I am afraid and if I had to sum it up this thread is why I am worried. This is where I think I am now.
genderplay>........................<cd/tv>....................>ts
^
:( :( :(
Alice
PS I hope I am wrong
I guess I have move to the right since that was posted all those months ago - I am under the T now ;).
Alice
Quote from: Leigh on November 20, 2005, 07:04:08 PM
gender play<........................cd..tv.........................>ts.....>Post-op ts...............woman
^
This gets my vote.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi92.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl2%2Fmagi43%2FVoting_Woman.gif&hash=6b9247d8d629e564c97bda1314034477353f0671)
Two yrs on h.r.t. still see that ugly man in the mirror
Yes I prefer this interpretation as well--with one change.
I'm not all that sure; but my best guess guess is:
gender play<................cd..tv...............>ts.....Non-op ts.....>Post-op ts............woman
^
me
Although I frequently feel so "in-genuine", STUCK so much of the time in guy mode and still having my real hair short.
Quote from: Denise48 on April 26, 2012, 11:39:37 PM
Two yrs on h.r.t. still see that ugly man in the mirror
Yes, me as well after 4 plus years of HRT, *sigh*!