Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi Everyone.

There is something that has been bugging me for quite some time.
Example. I have a long term "relationship" yet I have never met anyone from his life...No family and/or friends.
I also know he is afraid to find out what they think of me.
I am very understanding but still it makes me feel alone and not like I am in a relationship with him.
But I also know from experience that most men are this way.
Everytime I meet a new guy... online etc... even when they have not even seen me... they tell me beforehand
that for example they dont want their friends to know.
It makes me feel bad about being trans, it makes me feel ugly and unattractive... (I need a bf to feel proud
he has me... just like I am proud of my bf). It totally crashed my libido and makes me insecure and
I have a chronic feeling of love sickness because of it. It makes me think that I just dont want to
do relationships anymore... and it even makes me lose my interest in men in general... even though
I really dont like woman in a romantic way...

Just wanted to get this of my chest :(

I have been with guys for up to 2 years and same thing. He told me he is afraid to be fired from house if his parents know he's with a transsexual.

Being transsexual is a social stigma so it's normal they would act that way and they think it's an embarassment specially if their friends are homophobics/transphobics. He's afraid they would make fun of him.

You might be unpassable but unpassable isnt equivalent of being ugly. I know many who are very beautiful like top models and face passable but not passable by voice so you shouldn't assume you're ugly, maybe just not quite passable and you should work on that thing which makes you not pass.

Or if not from the beginning of a relationship, be clear that you want a guy not ashamed of being with you.

Well I do pass....but not as in "stealth".
I am not really ugly...guys on the streets some times flirt with me...the problem is i do feel ugly and am insecure.
Also...i do not want to think of myself as unworthy if i am not exactly like woman.
I cant live like that.
It would be bad for my self esteem also.
I am a ->-bleeped-<-.
And that is ok.

I dont want to spend my life thinking I am not good enough as I am and that I should pass and should be perfect and stealth.

Also I dont know how to improve my looks any further...not having the financial means to do so.

Maybe I should just give up on relationships and falling in love because of this stigma.

When you love someone...this stuff hurts.

I starting to have doubts...does he really love me ? And i also dont feel like i respect myself enough to allow myself to be in a relationship like that...but I love him very much....so i tend to look past that...but it isnt really doing me good.

I've had plenty boyfriends like this,don't want their famiyl and mates to know.I got fed up of it and gave up dating.

Hmmm sounds like a young person thread here.

I can only say, based on my observations of years watching my brother and sister do the boyfriend and or girlfriend thing over their teens and then 20 and 30s and 40s (my sister is still not married while brother has been for 28 years).

People will find fault or they won't and what dangles between your legs, or in the case of those without something :), will not always be the issue eh.

You might be Chinese and boy that can cause troubles, or you might be black and the fact is that is not something you can write off even today in parts of the world. You might be simply the 'wrong' socio economic level for some people.

So to you I say this, keep on looking, and when you get a bite, it's either total acceptance, or they get thrown back in the pond immediately. Stop being second class to your potential mates. If your boyfriend is ashamed of you for any reason under the sun, he's not good enough for you.

It's that simple. Because the whole point of dating, is to find 'the one you want forever' otherwise, it's just casual sex. If you are not looking for Mr right, then stop looking and getting treated poorly.

yep I had this... In my case he did introduce me to his mum but I was explicitly told not to tell her about my past and pretend to be a natal woman. :/

I wouldn't date someone that was ashamed to be seen with me..

Come on girls...Up the self esteem. You DO NOT need to be with a male to be someone special. If you get the mindset that you are special and up the esteem it will show as confidence when you are out and about. That in return will net a better catch. Set rules for yourselves and live by them. If a male is ashamed enough not to tell someone about the special girl he is with, send him packing. If a male wants sex only and no relationship, show him the door. Girls, up your game! Being transsexual is not spelled "d-o-o-r-m-a-t". Have some pride in yourselves. We are transsexual not second class. I wish I could sell the self esteem I have after 47 years on this earth. I can't of course, but I can tell you that it is attainable. Believe in yourselves ladies. We are the most special people on Earth. We have lived as both genders and learned the ins and outs of both genders. Use that knowledge. For example, we know when people are lying or have ulterior motives. Don't stand for it. Transexual is also not spelled "w-e-a-k-". You are all beautiful, smart and capable, so go get them. I love you all, so love yourselves.

I'm sorry, me again. The part about giving up?? What's that all about girls?? We would not have this great internet where we support each other if someone had given up!! I think I need to start seminars to boost the confidence around here. Do you give up at work, NO. Do you give up your dreams, NO. Do you give up the daily grin, NO. Did you give up on your transitions, NO. So what's this give up on dating?? Are you serious?? So, let me get this right...You made the steps for transition, HRT, some did SRS, spent a lot of money, exposed your true selves to people you love, risked it all, you made it and now you don't want to date?? Why bake bread if you don't eat it. Why transition if you don't want to celebrate it. AM I GETTING THROUGH?? Sorry for the rant, but after 28 years as a paramedic/firefighter I learned not to give up on ANYTHING and can't stand to hear my sisters talking defeatist stuff. STOP worrying what everyone else says. I personally have more baggage than United Airlines and should be the most depressed person on this forum, but guess what, I let it go and you can to. I believe in each and every one of you, love each of you and want you to succeed in this world. So, DEEP BREATH and repeat after me: I am a beautiful woman. I can attain any goal I seek. I am not second class. I deserve happiness. I will not be disrespected. I will show love and strength. I will find true happiness. Now, go get what you want and deserve!!!!!!!

Well I can certainly say if I had a boyfriend who was ashamed to be seen with me I'd kick him to the curb. I mean if your ashamed of the fact that I wasn't born a natal female well news flash it's really not like I had I say in what my sex was at birth! If only I did sigh..  I'd want a boyfriend that is proud of me and respects me, one who sees that I'm 100 percent female regardless of dna, biological sex etc and is not afraid to speak up in my defense if anyone sees otherwise.

Paige0000 you are my new hero!! Well said!! Please help me get that point into some of these girls.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on October 07, 2013, 02:03:07 AM
I'm sorry, me again. The part about giving up?? What's that all about girls?? We would not have this great internet where we support each other if someone had given up!! I think I need to start seminars to boost the confidence around here. Do you give up at work, NO. Do you give up your dreams, NO. Do you give up the daily grin, NO. Did you give up on your transitions, NO. So what's this give up on dating?? Are you serious?? So, let me get this right...You made the steps for transition, HRT, some did SRS, spent a lot of money, exposed your true selves to people you love, risked it all, you made it and now you don't want to date?? Why bake bread if you don't eat it. Why transition if you don't want to celebrate it. AM I GETTING THROUGH?? Sorry for the rant, but after 28 years as a paramedic/firefighter I learned not to give up on ANYTHING and can't stand to hear my sisters talking defeatist stuff. STOP worrying what everyone else says. I personally have more baggage than United Airlines and should be the most depressed person on this forum, but guess what, I let it go and you can to. I believe in each and every one of you, love each of you and want you to succeed in this world. So, DEEP BREATH and repeat after me: I am a beautiful woman. I can attain any goal I seek. I am not second class. I deserve happiness. I will not be disrespected. I will show love and strength. I will find true happiness. Now, go get what you want and deserve!!!!!!!

You ... Go ... Girl!!! :)

 :o

hey girls, I am 40 and believe me I plan to transition also because I think I deserve a real love story.

It's pointless (for me) to modify my body for myself only. My Disphoria is also related to the relationship field,
I want a man to fall in love with me but a hetero man, not a gay man (I have not against gay, but they
would love my male part, which I hate).

But...

... but I understand the problem here. In the initial part of transition, if I am not passable I may tolerate
some kind of discretion. But later not.

I am your gf, period. So I want to be treated like all the other gfs you had, cis or not.

This happened to me years ago when I was living as a cis male. It's not just a trans thing. Her parents disapproved of her dating me, so she told them we broke up and didn't talk to them about me. We ended up breaking up, in part because she wouldn't stand up to them and say she would date me anyway regardless of their disapproval.

You can keep seeing this person as long as you are enjoying it, but I wouldn't expect any long term commitment.

Hi Marina!!!

You get the point exactly. When you start dating, you wont go asking him immediately to meet his parents or friends.
The only thing you can check is what he is like in public with you. And in my case, he was great, hugs and kisses on
the streets when other people were around... it was all fine. But it was still anonymous. They weren't people that
know him. And those are the people I have not met in 4 years. Not that it is that important to me... but like suzifrommd
said: the problem is that you might want to commit, but you can't. You start to distrust the relationship. Not the
fact that he is sweet and swept me off my feet. He treats me very well, its just that I can't seem to trust in the
relationship and that makes me down and lovesick. Because I want to make plans with him and would love to spend
the rest of my life with him. But things will have to change... (not just this).
Its complicated.
Its also not so simple... the next man, the same problem (and perhaps more).
It may sound silly and you would think that transpeople are difficult because of all the things they go though...
but boyfriends can be extremely difficult. I also have the feeling that most men that are into TS expect a female
that tops. Its very discouraging always having to explain that you feel like a woman and are not a man sexualy.
Its just a complicated way of being.

Also when I am out and proud on the streets... and someone flirts with me? What to do? I usually thank the
person politely and tell them that I have a bf. But what if I returned the favour? And then they dont know
and find out I am TS? What kind of trouble to expect???

Dating is not so easy.

Also what I really dislike sometimes is the passable thingy !

Like when you dont pass, you lose your rights to a good life. Like when you dont pass, you are not supposed to expect
anything from anyone...
When you dont pass as a woman enough, you are not good enough....

I know we all might want to pass... but it should not be confused with selfworth.
Even if you dont pass... you can still be beautifull friendly and sweet.

And still be a great woman. Even though I am always insecure about my looks... I need to be proud of me...
no matter what... no matter how I look... I am still the same person!!

If he'll never be able to get over his social anxiety or other personal hang-ups about being seen with you or associated with trans people, get rid of him.

On the other hand... I wouldn't push away someone that likes you if he just needs more time. Share your concerns and find out where he stands. You can be flexible and have a backbone!

Quote from: kabit on October 07, 2013, 07:19:59 AM
On the other hand... I wouldn't push away someone that likes you if he just needs more time. Share your concerns and find out where he stands. You can be flexible and have a backbone!

yeah I asked him. But he answers that it would be a dissapointment that he'd rather avoid, that nothing good would come of it. Anyway. I now have the time to cool down. To not cling to much to a relationship with him and regain my independance.
I will find out one day what the future brings... so I better not worry to much about it at this moment and pick up my life... !

I'll wade in (for a change :laugh:)

Men are just as insecure as you/we are, they need to know the boundaries to treat us in. We need to know their insecurities and help them. If they are losers it may not be possible and we ditch them. Or them us BTW.

A relationship doesn't just happen, we work at them.

Recently, my BF asked me to dinner with his Mum. I was nervous, I asked him if she knew about me, he said yes. That made me even more nervous. We hit it off fantastically. She never mentioned me being trans, she seemed oblivious of the fact. She was delightful.

Afterwards I asked him why he had told her that I was a transgender; as I was ready to inflict physical damage to part of his anatomy that he seems to like a lot. He replied innocently that he hadn't, he said that he had told her that he really liked me.

Men are strange creatures.

So are women.

Quote from: Cindy on October 07, 2013, 07:31:40 AM
I'll wade in (for a change :laugh:)

Men are just as insecure as you/we are, they need to know the boundaries to treat us in. We need to know their insecurities and help them. If they are losers it may not be possible and we ditch them. Or them us BTW.

A relationship doesn't just happen, we work at them.

Recently, my BF asked me to dinner with his Mum. I was nervous, I asked him if she knew about me, he said yes. That made me even more nervous. We hit it off fantastically. She never mentioned me being trans, she seemed oblivious of the fact. She was delightful.

Afterwards I asked him why he had told her that I was a transgender; as I was ready to inflict physical damage to part of his anatomy that he seems to like a lot. He replied innocently that he hadn't, he said that he had told her that he really liked me.

Men are strange creatures.

So are women.

Sounds like you found yourself a keeper.

My boyfriend tells me all the time that he is always proud to be seen with me and he is as good as he says; he takes me anywhere proudly.

I love that man. ^____^

I don't think I would have the mental strength or the desire, to be with someone who was ashamed of me beyond the 'getting my head around how to handle this with friends and family' stage.

Good luck, whatever you choose! :-)

Akira x

Quote from: Cindy on October 07, 2013, 07:31:40 AM
I'll wade in (for a change :laugh:)

Men are just as insecure as you/we are, they need to know the boundaries to treat us in. We need to know their insecurities and help them. If they are losers it may not be possible and we ditch them. Or them us BTW.

A relationship doesn't just happen, we work at them.

Recently, my BF asked me to dinner with his Mum. I was nervous, I asked him if she knew about me, he said yes. That made me even more nervous. We hit it off fantastically. She never mentioned me being trans, she seemed oblivious of the fact. She was delightful.

Afterwards I asked him why he had told her that I was a transgender; as I was ready to inflict physical damage to part of his anatomy that he seems to like a lot. He replied innocently that he hadn't, he said that he had told her that he really liked me.

Men are strange creatures.

So are women.

That's just a really awesome story!! :) He tricked you, and in such a good way (or maybe you tricked yourself? ;) ). It sounds like she'd be fine with it anyway.

I don't know if I'll end up as lucky... I don't even know what I want in terms of this stuff... all I know is that I'm keeping cool about stuff like this for a long time, yet! (I'm not quite separated/divorced yet - probably in 6-12 months, though :( ).

I'm all about short replies today, apparently.

I wouldn't accept anyone like that, man or woman, for a moment. I've been with a number of guys and none of them would blink twice about introducing me to their family. I wouldn't date a guy who didn't have enough self-confidence to actually 'be' with me. I'm a great girlfriend and know my own worth. If a guy doesn't live up to that? GTFO.

Standards, ladies. Get some.

Protip: having higher standards and the self-confidence to pull them off gets the good ones, no matter which team you're playing on.

Drop that zero and find your hero.

If a man doesn't have the courage to be open about who he's dating than he's not worth your time.

Quote from: Kelly the Post-Trans-Rebel on October 07, 2013, 01:33:38 AM
I wouldn't date someone that was ashamed to be seen with me..

^------

Am dating a guy who doesn't care and its the only way I will have it.  He sees me as a woman (and I am already in stealth around him ).

We just don't go around his mother, due to her being homophobic and not wanting to add drama

I guess I have a different opinion but I would agree with my boyfriend. I don't want his family or friends to know because it's not their business. If I can pass without any questions asked from the people he knows, then what's the problem? You're his girlfriend and that's all they need to know.

Quote from: Magnolia88 on October 07, 2013, 12:09:10 PM
I guess I have a different opinion but I would agree with my boyfriend. I don't want his family or friends to know because it's not their business. If I can pass without any questions asked from the people he knows, then what's the problem? You're his girlfriend and that's all they need to know.

I think the issue isn't related to outing yourself, its to do with people being ashamed to be with you if/incase they can tell your trans.

Quote from: Akira21 ♡♡♡ on October 07, 2013, 12:14:59 PM
I think the issue isn't related to outing yourself, its to do with people being ashamed to be with you if/incase they can tell your trans.

This still doesn't completely make sense to me.

If they're ashamed about you, then yes... get rid of them.

If they're having a difficult time telling their family, maybe you need to remember when you first came out. It's not an easy thing to do. It takes time. They may need help doing it. If you kick that guy to the curb it just plays into the fact that the sensitive guy finishes last (or in my case the sensitive guy got married, had kids, and came out trans years later... but who's keeping score).

Quote from: kabit on October 07, 2013, 12:27:04 PM
This still doesn't completely make sense to me.

If they're ashamed about you, then yes... get rid of them.

If they're having a difficult time telling their family, maybe you need to remember when you first came out. It's not an easy thing to do. It takes time. They may need help doing it. If you kick that guy to the curb it just plays into the fact that the sensitive guy finishes last (or in my case the sensitive guy got married, had kids, and came out trans years later... but who's keeping score).

What doesn't make sense? They are ashamed of people knowing they are dating a transsexual woman. It has nothing to do with having trouble telling anyone they just don't want anyone to know because they don't want to get made fun of.  They want their trans girl but they want a "discreet" relationship because they don't want anyone to know about it.

No way in hell would I be someone's "dirty little secret."  I'd rather stay by myself as I have for so many years. I may not have much self esteem, but I've still got a little...

I've been the dirty secret,at first I wondered why I only saw Richie for a week every month then I found out that it was when his" real girlfriend "was having her period.I'm a magnet for dirtbags!

Quote from: MaidofOrleans on October 07, 2013, 03:37:57 PM
What doesn't make sense? They are ashamed of people knowing they are dating a transsexual woman. It has nothing to do with having trouble telling anyone they just don't want anyone to know because they don't want to get made fun of.  They want their trans girl but they want a "discreet" relationship because they don't want anyone to know about it.

I don't think you read my post? Just the first line?
Shame and fear are not the same thing. I agree with anyone who says to leave the people shamed by you... but I don't see much difference between them telling their parents their girl is trans and us coming out to our parents in the first place. Some had that easy... mine are probably not talking to me for the long term at this point -- which wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to see them often.

Shamed? No... I'm not ashamed. Yet it's still the hardest thing I've ever done. I imagine it's nearly the same for most men and women dating a trans* person.

Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know how I'd find out... I'm a long way off from any new love :( But I'd hate to put my faith in someone just to spurn that relationship because they wouldn't come out about their girlfriend on demand.

Quote from: kabit on October 07, 2013, 04:03:48 PM
I don't think you read my post? Just the first line?
Shame and fear are not the same thing. I agree with anyone who says to leave the people shamed by you... but I don't see much difference between them telling their parents their girl is trans and us coming out to our parents in the first place. Some had that easy... mine are probably not talking to me for the long term at this point -- which wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to see them often.

Shamed? No... I'm not ashamed. Yet it's still the hardest thing I've ever done. I imagine it's nearly the same for most men and women dating a trans* person.

Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know how I'd find out... I'm a long way off from any new love :( But I'd hate to put my faith in someone just to spurn that relationship because they wouldn't come out about their girlfriend on demand.

Ya I don't think you are getting the point being made.

Quote from: kabit on October 07, 2013, 04:03:48 PM
Shame and fear are not the same thing. I agree with anyone who says to leave the people shamed by you... but I don't see much difference between them telling their parents their girl is trans and us coming out to our parents in the first place. Some had that easy... mine are probably not talking to me for the long term at this point -- which wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to see them often.

Yes that's it. I also am very understanding about this... I guess it does not even make me feel dissapointed about my bf... perhaps more so about being trans. Because I can't change that for him or make it any easier.

If I was comfortable enough being out, then I'd expect my partner to not be ashamed of afraid to be seen with a trans person. But since I'm hoping to be stealth...I'd want that person to respect that and not tell anyone unless I knew in advance. So I wonder if the whole shame/fear thing applies to people who strive to be 100% stealth. I guess, if push came to shove and I was outed, I'd want them to have my back. Obviously in my case it would be a gf and not a bf, but you get the picture.

The point is, if they want a serious relationship they can't expect to *never* tell them about you can they? So in effect its a statement that they are not serious.

Quote from: Marina mtf on October 07, 2013, 06:45:00 AM
:o

hey girls, I am 40 and believe me I plan to transition also because I think I deserve a real love story.

It's pointless (for me) to modify my body for myself only. My Disphoria is also related to the relationship field,
I want a man to fall in love with me but a hetero man, not a gay man (I have not against gay, but they
would love my male part, which I hate).

But...

... but I understand the problem here. In the initial part of transition, if I am not passable I may tolerate
some kind of discretion. But later not.

I am your gf, period. So I want to be treated like all the other gfs you had, cis or not.

Ditto ... but 49.

Quote from: Akira21 ♡♡♡ on October 07, 2013, 06:17:51 PM
The point is, if they want a serious relationship they can't expect to *never* tell them about you can they? So in effect its a statement that they are not serious.

Sometimes I think a lot of transwoman (and men) make the mistake to dream about going stealth... because allthough it might have advantages.... it has a lot of disadvantages... Also a lot of transwoman seem to think they are stealth, when they are not. Stealth means that nobody will notice. Nobody. That includes other transwoman and people with a 6th sense. Of course when you transition very young...it can be possible...
The disadvantages: When people DO find out when they are already close friends with you, it might hurt them and they might feel betrayed (huge disadvantage).  Also I have noticed that I personally feel the need to define myself as I am... and that is not only just a woman....I define myself also with the struggles I went through...its part of what I have become. Also I want to be proud of who and what I am and be open about that.

Sibila I'm sorry you're going through this.

I have good news for you. There are men that will love and accept you completely. I met a wonderful guy only 2 mos ago who accepts me for who I am completely. Even though I'm not 24/7 yet he's vowed to support me through my transition and everything. He tells me I'm beautiful and sexy all the time even when I don't feel that way. He told me we'd be a couple before I ever established that I even liked him lol. And as naive as it sounds I believe him. We've talked about many issues that could arise and he's 10000% on board. He found me after being in a similar situation as you. I was in love with a guy for 6 yrs who never took me anywhere. No movies, dinner, walks, nothing. I knew his sister, mom, niece & nephew, best friend, He knew my mom and friends and everyone was cool with our relationship. The fact that I'm 95% passable didn't make a bit of difference. In the end I left him because it was his issue to deal with not mine. I've been single for the past 5yrs and now a wonderful man just walked into my life.

Don't put up with any man who isn't 100% comfortable with you being trans, trust me I've been there and I have the tear stains amd 6 wasted yrs to prove it. You deserve to be respected and not treated as some secret. Believe me there are lots of good men out here who will accept and respect you. Don't settle for less. This just gives them permission to take advantage of you and the next girl. Keep you're head up and keep you're options open He'll find you too.

Quote from: Sibila on October 07, 2013, 07:57:48 PM
The disadvantages: When people DO find out when they are already close friends with you, it might hurt them and they might feel betrayed (huge disadvantage).  Also I have noticed that I personally feel the need to define myself as I am... and that is not only just a woman....I define myself also with the struggles I went through...its part of what I have become. Also I want to be proud of who and what I am and be open about that.

Other disadvantages are I've found are
1: Backstory Weirdness.
You have to redact your personal story. To avoid all references to your male self and that often involves not talking about anything on a huge array of topics. "Why were you depressed as a teenager" "Why did your mother not talk to you for a year. did you do something really bad?" "You said you went to the hospital yesterday I hope everything is alright." "Oh what will you need surgery for?" ect It's a minefield. And what you left with it surprisingly little.

It's stressful really quite stressful and it gets harder the closer you get to people in stealth life. because they might tell you really personal details that might well have required them to suffer stigma, and you want to say "Yeah I know what it's like" but you've got to censor yourself.

Sibila,
I would like to thank you.

I have worked for years in my job and transitioned at work. People have been great.
Two guys have had problems. They avoid me and they obviously feel uncomfortable with me.

I have been feeling sorry for them as it is affecting them and their relationships with others who accept and love me, and they are begining to be ignored by their colleagues.

Your post prompted me to deal with it.

I maneuvered the situation so one of them was alone with me today and I spoke to him.

I told him that he must be proud of me for living my life and taking on a situation where I may have been the subject of ridicule. That I was so pleased that he could accept the pain that goes with me being transgender and not knowing how to tell people. How different I must be too men who could not contemplate giving up being male and living my life openly with joy and happiness.

I told him how that must be hard for him to accept and yet that he does.

He cried. He apologized.

He is a friend again.

Thank you.

Cindy

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on October 07, 2013, 02:03:07 AM
I'm sorry, me again. The part about giving up?? What's that all about girls?? We would not have this great internet where we support each other if someone had given up!! I think I need to start seminars to boost the confidence around here. Do you give up at work, NO. Do you give up your dreams, NO. Do you give up the daily grin, NO. Did you give up on your transitions, NO. So what's this give up on dating?? Are you serious?? So, let me get this right...You made the steps for transition, HRT, some did SRS, spent a lot of money, exposed your true selves to people you love, risked it all, you made it and now you don't want to date?? Why bake bread if you don't eat it. Why transition if you don't want to celebrate it. AM I GETTING THROUGH?? Sorry for the rant, but after 28 years as a paramedic/firefighter I learned not to give up on ANYTHING and can't stand to hear my sisters talking defeatist stuff. STOP worrying what everyone else says. I personally have more baggage than United Airlines and should be the most depressed person on this forum, but guess what, I let it go and you can to. I believe in each and every one of you, love each of you and want you to succeed in this world. So, DEEP BREATH and repeat after me: I am a beautiful woman. I can attain any goal I seek. I am not second class. I deserve happiness. I will not be disrespected. I will show love and strength. I will find true happiness. Now, go get what you want and deserve!!!!!!!

Fantastic post! Inspirational. Don't waste a single heartbeat dating a man that doesn't fully embrace you as a valued and loved member of his family. Anything less is soul deadening. And keep this in mind, the same thing happens in the cisgender community with interracial, gay, and interfaith couples.

Hmm ... seems to me a lot of people are underestimating the degree to which the whole concept of transsexuality disturbs people.

Of course we should be proud. Of course we should have self-esteem. And of course we should expect, and even demand to be treated with respect by the people we love and who we want to love us.

But, come on people ... this stuff is hard. It's really hard for most of us to come to terms with being transsexual. It's really hard for our families, spouses, kids to come to terms with it. It's even harder to actually act upon it. So I say, let's cut the guys some slack.

We may not like it, but in the real world, any man who 'comes out' as dating an MTF, pre or post-op is going to have to face an extension of the same prejudice we face. People are going to say he's secretly gay (and yes, that's a transphobic, homophobic double-whammy of prejudice, but that doesn't make the problem any less real). Since we can't give birth, a guy's parents - particularly his mother - are going to be upset because they know he can't have kids with one of us, so that's no grandchildren for them. He's going to get whispers behind his back from friends and workmates ...

We are asking a HUGE amount from men. So, just as we have to move forward in baby-steps, so they're entitled to the same consideration. If a man makes it plain that he's never, ever going to go public with your relationship, then, yes, he's not worth having. But if he loves you, and he's proud of you, but it's really tough for him to face the consequences of loving an MTF, then I think you should do what any loving girlfriend should do. Support the man you love. Help him through a tough time. Don't nag or bitch at him, but let him know that you understand his problems.

If that's not enough, well maybe he's not the right guy. But if, over time, he can man up, show the world how much he loves you and tell anyone who doesn't like it to go to hell, well, then he's a keeper for sure.

Quote from: Carlita on October 08, 2013, 05:22:42 AM
We may not like it, but in the real world, any man who 'comes out' as dating an MTF, pre or post-op is going to have to face an extension of the same prejudice we face.

Uhm, no. I've, as I've said, dated several guys who I told up front about being trans and they were totally non-plussed. I met the folks, they knew, etc. My current partner told her parents straight-off. She knew that they'd be a pain in the butt but it wasn't a thing to her. We've been really quite happy for a good long while (years and years now).

I see a lot of comments in here that are all about accepting the guy's needs for time and the like. My short answer is that one of my needs is for anyone that I date/->-bleeped-<-/party with/fall in love with to be enough of a confident person that they know who they are and what they want and that I'm what they want and they're not ashamed of wanting that nor are they scared of what others will think. Anyone who caves on what they want due to the potential reactions of others, family included, isn't enough of a confident individual to be with me. I've got my own ->-bleeped-<-. I don't need to babysit someone's insecurities.

If there were concerns that there would be consequences outside just the social aspect (inheritance or the like), that would probably be the only place where I'd be okay with dealing with some easing in period... but I'd have to be head over heels and pretty sure that a ring was coming down the line to put up with it.

Again, I'm all about making sure that my partner is okay and protecting their interests but, outside of crisis, I'm not going to wait for them to put on their grown-up pants and decide on what they want. So, we come back to standards. Mine are high. I'm worth it. If someone wants me, they've gotta meet them. Elsewise? GTFO.

Okay but Victoria,

For woman its easier to be with a transwoman... its the men that get they gay stigma stuff.

Quote from: Sibila on October 08, 2013, 03:21:06 PM
For woman its easier to be with a transwoman... its the men that get they gay stigma stuff.

To which I reply:

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on October 08, 2013, 12:02:39 PM
Uhm, no. I've, as I've said, dated several guys who I told up front about being trans and they were totally non-plussed. I met the folks, they knew, etc.

Cause... see... I like both girls and guys and have dated both as completely out, often at the same time, because that's how I roll in that regard.

*slaps forehead* Reading the whole response and not skimming is pretty important if you don't what just happened to happen.

P.S. - Only terrified little boys are worried about other people thinking that they're gay. If they have that fear, THEY'RE NOT WORTH MY TIME!

Quote from: Akira21 ♡♡♡ on October 07, 2013, 06:17:51 PM
The point is, if they want a serious relationship they can't expect to *never* tell them about you can they? So in effect its a statement that they are not serious.

This!! What Akira said, says it all.

If they were serious, they wouldn't do this. Since they do this, they can't possibly be serious, regardless of what excuses they raise.

Each of you, every single one of you, is worthy of love and appreciation. Believe in yourself. Believe in yourself such that you don't need a man but if the right man shows up that the two of you can be awesome together!



And to Cindy... you go, girl! Well done!

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on October 08, 2013, 04:08:19 PM
To which I reply:

Cause... see... I like both girls and guys and have dated both as completely out, often at the same time, because that's how I roll in that regard.

*slaps forehead* Reading the whole response and not skimming is pretty important if you don't what just happened to happen.

P.S. - Only terrified little boys are worried about other people thinking that they're gay. If they have that fear, THEY'RE NOT WORTH MY TIME!

You know... I do agree :) You have experience. At the same time, I know I'd have a hard time telling my family in their position... which doesn't mean I never would, but I'd have to work up to it. It's just how I was (not to mention I couldn't ever as a guy... because of what I was hiding for so long).

I say all the talk in the world can't help unless you know the situation. Does the trans woman know this man intimately (not talking about sex here ;))? Is she in the state of mind to know if he's a loser or a winner that might need a little extra help? Is the communication needed to find out good enough? (I'm also not talking about any OP or other people in this thread... just in general).

There are too many possible boyfriends out there to answer all of that...


Aside:
... and yeah, I'd like to find someone again someday. I broke one woman's heart... maybe I need to try men. And seriously... I have no idea which I prefer, lately - coming out changes things. It's not about my sexuality before I came out. Being open about one major change in your life means you open up to other changes, too. I suspect HRT will open my eyes even more.

I've dated quite a few men & some loved to take me out on the town. I loved to dress real sexy, enjoyed the man treating me like a lady with opening the car doors, etc... After a nice evening I really enjoyed my man later. He was so happy & I loved being his woman for anything he needed. And then there were some that just wanted sex & did not want to be seen in public with me??

I generally agree to just kick him out of your life & date more men. You have to kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince.

Quote from: Carlita on October 08, 2013, 05:22:42 AM
Hmm ... seems to me a lot of people are underestimating the degree to which the whole concept of transsexuality disturbs people.

Of course we should be proud. Of course we should have self-esteem. And of course we should expect, and even demand to be treated with respect by the people we love and who we want to love us.

But, come on people ... this stuff is hard. It's really hard for most of us to come to terms with being transsexual. It's really hard for our families, spouses, kids to come to terms with it. It's even harder to actually act upon it. So I say, let's cut the guys some slack.

We may not like it, but in the real world, any man who 'comes out' as dating an MTF, pre or post-op is going to have to face an extension of the same prejudice we face. People are going to say he's secretly gay (and yes, that's a transphobic, homophobic double-whammy of prejudice, but that doesn't make the problem any less real). Since we can't give birth, a guy's parents - particularly his mother - are going to be upset because they know he can't have kids with one of us, so that's no grandchildren for them. He's going to get whispers behind his back from friends and workmates ...

We are asking a HUGE amount from men. So, just as we have to move forward in baby-steps, so they're entitled to the same consideration. If a man makes it plain that he's never, ever going to go public with your relationship, then, yes, he's not worth having. But if he loves you, and he's proud of you, but it's really tough for him to face the consequences of loving an MTF, then I think you should do what any loving girlfriend should do. Support the man you love. Help him through a tough time. Don't nag or bitch at him, but let him know that you understand his problems.

If that's not enough, well maybe he's not the right guy. But if, over time, he can man up, show the world how much he loves you and tell anyone who doesn't like it to go to hell, well, then he's a keeper for sure.

I agree with you to a point. Yes trans-attracted men do take on some of the burden we face by association and that can be though to deal with. And I also understand they aren't prepared with that armor we have because they've never had to defend themselves against homophobia & transphobia.

With all that said I would still advise other ladies to not be fools. Many of these men will use our insecurities, fears, desperation, need for love against us. It's happened to me and many girls I know. I've seen girls put up with things they otherwise wouldn't from men who weren't worth the hassle.

There are tons of guy's who are willing to be with us who are strong and aren't cowards. I learned this many yrs ago. I met a newly trans-attracted guy who was strong and confident. The same issues that some men let effect them seemed to roll off his back. He treated me with respect, took me out on dates in the daytime unashamed, partied w/me at friends homes, held my hand in public, and basically treated me like the young woman I was. This was a man who was young like me who had just moved to my city from the deep south, who was new to living in a major city and was pretty naive to that kind of life. I would've thought he would've been more effected by jumping into things so fast, but it was just the opposite. Compared to men who have experience with transwomen it was like night and day.

After experiencing this there's no way you can go back to BS. Some may disagree but once a girl meets a guy like this it's pretty hard to settle for less.

Quote from: kabit on October 08, 2013, 04:43:43 PMI suspect HRT will open my eyes even more.

Oh baby does it ever! *giggle*

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on October 09, 2013, 04:51:26 AM
Oh baby does it ever! *giggle*

LOL :D I really can't wait! (And sexuality is about the lowest on my care-about list right now... but I do feel it's suddenly pretty fluid).

I never even looked at a guy till I booked passage on the "E" train. Jeesh, one dream and you are totally gone. *giggles*

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on October 09, 2013, 05:34:45 AM
I never even looked at a guy till I booked passage on the "E" train. Jeesh, one dream and you are totally gone. *giggles*

It's scary :D and exciting, I suppose!
With AAs coming soon... I wonder if all this curiosity will drop to nothing?

Quote from: kabit on October 09, 2013, 06:45:31 AM
It's scary :D and exciting, I suppose!
With AAs coming soon... I wonder if all this curiosity will drop to nothing?

Stop wondering. What will be will be. If you start to really like guys, trust me, you'll *know* like a shot in the dark.

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on October 08, 2013, 04:08:19 PM

Cause... see... I like both girls and guys and have dated both as completely out, often at the same time, because that's how I roll in that regard.
*slaps forehead* Reading the whole response and not skimming is pretty important if you don't what just happened to happen.

P.S. - Only terrified little boys are worried about other people thinking that they're gay. If they have that fear, THEY'RE NOT WORTH MY TIME!

Yes I read that.
Perhaps you are more beautifull and passable then me, who knows?

Quote from: Sibila on October 09, 2013, 08:12:07 AM
Yes I read that.
Perhaps you are more beautifull and passable then me, who knows?

*shrugs* The pic on the profile is actually what I look like. I'm quite passable but I'm a big girl. Not fat but, just large. 6' tall, my boobs are small, my butt is big, my waist is there but not extremely hourglass shaped, I have a little bit of a tummy because I like food, and I have legs for days due to my hobby (roller derby).

I'd imagine that the difference really lies in the fact that I've been doing this longer and have a better sense of myself as well as the fact that I have the kind of attitude that says (LOUDLY) "I'm ->-bleeped-<-ing awesome. Wanna roll with me? Be worth it or don't bother trying." I *know* I'm a pretty girl who has a fun attitude, a love for being outrageous, and a strong sense of pride in myself... which is why I don't get down with loser boys.

In short: if you think that attracting the right guys has much to do with your looks, you're thinking about it all the wrong way. Getting quality partners has everything to do with your self confidence and your knowledge of your own worth.

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on October 09, 2013, 08:08:29 AM
Stop wondering. What will be will be. If you start to really like guys, trust me, you'll *know* like a shot in the dark.

:D Thanks. I am almost expecting it... but I know it doesn't happen to everyone. It's not really wondering so much as one major change bringing about another major change. For example, I'm not very into "magic" gender changes anymore... which was filled by being transgender. I also wonder how much I liked women because I wanted what they had... but now I look at them and I look at how they wear clothes rather than the assets underneath.

I'm not anxious about it. I'm patient... and working on being more patient (by fixing the stress and frustration). I'm not particularly patient about getting HRT, but I am sticking with my timeline... (AAs in 5-6 weeks if all goes well!!!!!)

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on October 09, 2013, 09:04:46 AM
*shrugs* The pic on the profile is actually what I look like. I'm quite passable but I'm a big girl. Not fat but, just large. 6' tall, my boobs are small, my butt is big, my waist is there but not extremely hourglass shaped, I have a little bit of a tummy because I like food, and I have legs for days due to my hobby (roller derby).

I'd imagine that the difference really lies in the fact that I've been doing this longer and have a better sense of myself as well as the fact that I have the kind of attitude that says (LOUDLY) "I'm ->-bleeped-<-ing awesome. Wanna roll with me? Be worth it or don't bother trying." I *know* I'm a pretty girl who has a fun attitude, a love for being outrageous, and a strong sense of pride in myself... which is why I don't get down with loser boys.

In short: if you think that attracting the right guys has much to do with your looks, you're thinking about it all the wrong way. Getting quality partners has everything to do with your self confidence and your knowledge of your own worth.

You sound like an awesome person. Your outlook on life is where I'm aiming... I think you're much more outgoing than I am, but I'm not a wallflower anymore!

Thanks... I'm still confused inside, of course, but I accept what may come and am changing my psyche to be open to it (I never would have been so open before my rebirth).

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on October 09, 2013, 09:04:46 AM
*shrugs* The pic on the profile is actually what I look like. I'm quite passable but I'm a big girl. Not fat but, just large. 6' tall, my boobs are small, my butt is big, my waist is there but not extremely hourglass shaped, I have a little bit of a tummy because I like food, and I have legs for days due to my hobby (roller derby).

I'd imagine that the difference really lies in the fact that I've been doing this longer and have a better sense of myself as well as the fact that I have the kind of attitude that says (LOUDLY) "I'm ->-bleeped-<-ing awesome. Wanna roll with me? Be worth it or don't bother trying." I *know* I'm a pretty girl who has a fun attitude, a love for being outrageous, and a strong sense of pride in myself... which is why I don't get down with loser boys.

In short: if you think that attracting the right guys has much to do with your looks, you're thinking about it all the wrong way. Getting quality partners has everything to do with your self confidence and your knowledge of your own worth.

Thanks Victoria!
I guess I needed to hear that. I am way to insecure. I cannot deny that! And I also understand that you then meet people that leech on that insecurity and use it against you. Pff.

Thanks for telling me this straight!

That's what I'm here for.  :D

Still from my experience most men either lose interest when they know I am trans... or I get the kind of men that are into ->-bleeped-<-s that expect things of me I cant give them.

Then I also need to love the mind of the guy I am with. I need him to be intelligent.
Its just to hard to find.

I feel as though I have zero chance of ever having a normal relationship.

Quote from: Sibila on October 09, 2013, 08:12:07 AM
Yes I read that.
Perhaps you are more beautifull and passable then me, who knows?

I normally try to stay out of these sections but i felt the need to comment.I personally have been around the block a few thousand times and in every way you could imagine and this goes for love/relationships as well.I have went from abuse,deception,hate and so many other things and over time,on a personal level,you just start to see the persons heart and not anything else.I want to show you the true definition of love and it is 100% true

*Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.  It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.  Love does not delight in bad but rejoices with the truth.  It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.  Love never fails.*

And love is NEVER ashamed.Please know that it is in the heart that prevents one from being honest.If your sorrow and pain is telling you its wrong,then it IS because the heart never lies.Just like you want to be 100% apart of him,not ashamed of him and want to shout to the world,why would he not do the same unless he does not feel the same.Do whats best for you and consider everyones advice.Find a good man and you ARE beautiful,sexy,and needed but you need to give it all to someone who deserves it.And this honestly boils down to whats inside and not outside.Love knows no bounderies.

There was an interesting news article I read today that touches on this subject. I don't have the rank to post a link, but if you google the following you'll find it: "im attracted to trans women" salon

Here's an excerpt:

QuoteImagine a woman who has been to hell and back trying to transition into who she really is only to be told by her lover that he is ashamed to be with her. The hardship that trans-attracted men go through (and believe me, it is hard) does not even come close to what trans women have to go through in their day-to-day lives. That is why it's so important for trans-attracted men to start coming out of the closet. Personally, I am proud to be attracted to women who are so strong.

I'm not sure how I'd feel about a man being attracted to me because I'm trans. Hell, I don't even have my sexuality figured out yet. But if I do end up finding myself attracted to men, I think I'd be open to a relationship with a trans-attracted man... provided he is willing to be open about it like this author was. If he weren't willing to do that then I'd be too creeped out by it--I certainly don't want to be someone's fetish. I'd also send him packing if he ever tried to dissuade me from getting my bottom surgery done. Whomever I end up with needs to love me for the woman I am.

Quote from: Alaia on October 24, 2013, 02:57:06 AM
There was an interesting news article I read today that touches on this subject. I don't have the rank to post a link, but if you google the following you'll find it: "im attracted to trans women" salon

Here's an excerpt:

QuoteImagine a woman who has been to hell and back trying to transition into who she really is only to be told by her lover that he is ashamed to be with her. The hardship that trans-attracted men go through (and believe me, it is hard) does not even come close to what trans women have to go through in their day-to-day lives. That is why it's so important for trans-attracted men to start coming out of the closet. Personally, I am proud to be attracted to women who are so strong.

I'm not sure how I'd feel about a man being attracted to me because I'm trans. Hell, I don't even have my sexuality figured out yet. But if I do end up finding myself attracted to men, I think I'd be open to a relationship with a trans-attracted man... provided he is willing to be open about it like this author was. If he weren't willing to do that then I'd be too creeped out by it--I certainly don't want to be someone's fetish. I'd also send him packing if he ever tried to dissuade me from getting my bottom surgery done. Whomever I end up with needs to love me for the woman I am.

The quote is beautiful. I think the big dilemma we face in love is that we don't want someone attracted to us because we're trans and we don't want someone attracted to us despite being trans. Once it becomes love, I think those initial attractions go out the window and everyone needs to be open... before it becomes love every partner needs to work through their own issues. They're cis. Nearly all cis people grow up with media teaching them to fear us. Only very special people are able to see through their own issues immediately but with time everyone has the chance.

Quote from: Alaia on October 24, 2013, 02:57:06 AM
I'd also send him packing if he ever tried to dissuade me from getting my bottom surgery done. Whomever I end up with needs to love me for the woman I am.

Ha... my current fantasy is a rich guy who wants to pay for it ;)

To answer the specific point first, I don't really think that someone who is ashamed to be with you, is really loving you. They are using you, and not even admitting that fact, so I would not call that a healthy relationship.

That said, Love is a very complex thing. Let me take a small risk and share a few details of my own story, in the hope that they may help someone who struggles with love, or worries about their future.

When I was young I used to worry about who would find me attractive. I have PAIS so I knew that I was likely to be sterile as a male, and as a corrected female this became a certainty. So I couldn't have my own kids and it worried me that which ever role I had chosen, anyone "normal" might eventually find that to be a disappointment. So the relationship would break down.

Now I lost my father at an early age, and that left me with a slight fear of abandonment, so to me that idea that the relationship would be long-term and reliable became an important factor.

In the end I settled down with a wonderful trans woman, and although it wasn't what either of us "wanted" it was what we needed.

She had the added complication that her operation had major complications which had left her unable to consummate a relationship with a man, so her only option was a woman, which wasn't what she wanted... but I realised that although I was not a man, and did not identify as one, I could perhaps act out the role well enough to satisfy her. So thats what I did. I didn't seek to become male or anything, I just made it my business to try and fulfil the "role" of one in our relationship.

We became wonderful companions and she supported me through some of the most difficult years of my life following the death of my mother.

In turn I protected her from her, often hostile, family, and tried to give her the opportunity to be the housewife and homemaker that she so wanted to be.

In the event we were together for well over two decades.

She is now dying with early onset dementia – and harrowingly seems to have forgotten that she has had the SRS and is often back to believing herself to be a 14 year old boy with severe dysphoria. It is so sad to see her ending her life in terrible internal pain and suffering.

At the time we got together people accused me of selling out, joining the freakshow, setting up a ghetto, being perverted ->-bleeped-<- – regretting my own gender decision, you name it I've been accuse of it – a surprising amount of the time from within the LGB and indeed trans communities!!!

The point is I have loved and been loved. That is all that matters! Life is not like a baskin-robins Ice cream parlour. You don't always get to choose your PERFECT flavour. With luck what you do get is something which is edible and pleasant, and if you achieve that then you've won.

I think this is so important to understand, because by observation, those of us who are good at compromise, generally end up with better life satisfaction than those for whom it has to be perfect! If you are transitioning to become the perfect woman with the perfect relationship, then you have to be SO LUCKY, and for most of you it simply won't happen.

On the other hand, if you can compromise, and learn to get the best out of whatever life throws your way, then you have a much higher chance of being happy.

Quote from: Doctorwho? on October 24, 2013, 06:16:53 AM
In the end I settled down with a wonderful trans woman, and although it wasn't what either of us "wanted" it was what we needed.

She had the added complication that her operation had major complications which had left her unable to consummate a relationship with a man, so her only option was a woman, which wasn't what she wanted... but I realised that although I was not a man, and did not identify as one, I could perhaps act out the role well enough to satisfy her. So thats what I did. I didn't seek to become male or anything, I just made it my business to try and fulfil the "role" of one in our relationship.

We became wonderful companions and she supported me through some of the most difficult years of my life following the death of my mother.

In turn I protected her from her, often hostile, family, and tried to give her the opportunity to be the housewife and homemaker that she so wanted to be.

In the event we were together for well over two decades.

She is now dying with early onset dementia – and harrowingly seems to have forgotten that she has had the SRS and is often back to believing herself to be a 14 year old boy with severe dysphoria. It is so sad to see her ending her life in terrible internal pain and suffering.

You sound like a wonderful couple and I'm so happy for the time you had. I'm sorry for what you're going through but you sound like a beautiful person for being so supportive of your wife. ♥!

Quote from: Sibila on October 06, 2013, 06:26:52 AM
I also know he afraid to find out what they think of me.

He's afraid fo find out what they think of him.

Quote from: Marina mtf on October 07, 2013, 06:45:00 AM
  but a hetero man, not a gay man (I have not against gay, but they
would love my male part, which I hate).

Oh girl, you'll soon find out it's the 'hetero men' who loooooooooooooooove your male part.

Thank god you've nothing against gay men but you've obviously haven't heard fabout bisexual men......fooling themselves and thinking how 'hetero' there are when they're into MTF.

Let alone about some more surprises...such as 'hetero'men who turn out to be tv's/cd's or even pre mtf.

Good luck!

Quote from: Dahlia on October 24, 2013, 04:28:50 PM
Oh girl, you'll soon find out it's the 'hetero men' who loooooooooooooooove your male part.

Thank god you've nothing against gay men but you've obviously haven't heard fabout bisexual men......fooling themselves and thinking how 'hetero' there are when they're into MTF.

Let alone about some more surprises...such as 'hetero'men who turn out to be tv's/cd's or even pre mtf.

Good luck!

This post is rather presumptive.  Its perfectly possible to be heterosexual and like MTFs.  Its also very common for crossdressers to be hetero.  I find your putting the quotes around hetero to be pretty offensive actually.

Quote from: Dahlia on October 24, 2013, 04:28:50 PM
Oh girl, you'll soon find out it's the 'hetero men' who loooooooooooooooove your male part.

Thank god you've nothing against gay men but you've obviously haven't heard fabout bisexual men......fooling themselves and thinking how 'hetero' there are when they're into MTF.

Let alone about some more surprises...such as 'hetero'men who turn out to be tv's/cd's or even pre mtf.

Good luck!

Wait, I thought that if I was MtF, that my male part wasn't seen as a male part? It certainly doesn't *work* much like a male part...and the moment I got with a guy (hetero, bi, or gay) who went "there" as if it were an actual male part, I'd kick him to the curb.

Quote from: Visitor_591 on October 24, 2013, 06:21:49 PM
Wait, I thought that if I was MtF, that my male part wasn't seen as a male part? It certainly doesn't *work* much like a male part...and the moment I got with a guy (hetero, bi, or gay) who went "there" as if it were an actual male part, I'd kick him to the curb.

Where is "there" exactly? Doesn't make sense to me... if it doesn't work it doesn't work. Otherwise it's an over-sized female part.

Quote from: kabit on October 24, 2013, 06:25:00 PM
Where is "there" exactly? Doesn't make sense to me... if it doesn't work it doesn't work. Otherwise it's an over-sized female part.

"There" meaning if the guy acted AS IF I had a male part. Or if I got the impression that he, in any way, was looking at me as if I were a guy.

I apologize if that wasn't clear. I thought it was. Perhaps clarify what you didn't understand?

Quote from: Visitor_591 on October 24, 2013, 06:50:16 PM
"There" meaning if the guy acted AS IF I had a male part. Or if I got the impression that he, in any way, was looking at me as if I were a guy.

I apologize if that wasn't clear. I thought it was. Perhaps clarify what you didn't understand?

No... I'm good :D I don't understand anything... I just try to pretend really well ;)

I know some people don't want guys anywhere near that part... I don't think I'd care about location, but yeah - it would have to remain female. I have no idea, though - I don't even know (I know rationally, not experientially) how that part works after HRT.

I have so much to experience, to look forward to... that I really do feel like a pre-pubescent kid talking about adult stuff ;) (figuratively, of course :P).

Quote from: kabit on October 24, 2013, 06:56:48 PM
No... I'm good :D I don't understand anything... I just try to pretend really well ;)

I know some people don't want guys anywhere near that part... I don't think I'd care about location, but yeah - it would have to remain female. I have no idea, though - I don't even know (I know rationally, not experientially) how that part works after HRT.

I have so much to experience, to look forward to... that I really do feel like a pre-pubescent kid talking about adult stuff ;) (figuratively, of course :P).

Wander into the sexuality forum, if you feel comfortable doing that. There's a few discussions (clinical, not prurient) about how things...develop in this area ("man-parts" vs "woman-mind")

Quote from: Visitor_591 on October 24, 2013, 07:59:01 PM
Wander into the sexuality forum, if you feel comfortable doing that. There's a few discussions (clinical, not prurient) about how things...develop in this area ("man-parts" vs "woman-mind")

Maybe it's time for me to subscribe... $10/mo is a lot, but it might open up some interesting conversations -- and I'll feel better about posting pics.

Quote from: kabit on October 24, 2013, 04:13:39 AM
The quote is beautiful. I think the big dilemma we face in love is that we don't want someone attracted to us because we're trans and we don't want someone attracted to us despite being trans.

Is being attracted to someone for being trans really that different than being attracted to someone because of any other physical trait? Almost all relationships start off as superficial attraction. As long as the relationship has the potential to develop into something more, why worry about how it started?

Quote from: Miyuki on October 24, 2013, 09:47:39 PM
Is being attracted to someone for being trans really that different than being attracted to someone because of any other physical trait? Almost all relationships start off as superficial attraction. As long as the relationship has the potential to develop into something more, why worry about how it started?

My point exactly... those two requirements limit you to nearly an empty group of men.

When I first saw this thread about half and hour ago, I thought, 'great, I need to get this off my chest.' Then I read a few posts and decided not to read anymore. I have enough depression over this very subject, and the line between what I'm doing and what I should be doing has blurred to the point that I no longer know if leaving him would be any solution at all. I've lived in reality only the last two years of my life, as the woman I've always been. I was a male impersonator before now. I pass without any problems whatsoever and although I'm very much at ease in my skin now and am never clocked, once in awhile I still think, 'Wow, Mira. You're actually doing what you wanted to do for your whole life.' Anyway, I've been seeing a man for a year now that I'm deeply in love with, and I'm sure he loves me. He's been divorced for over twenty years and has two grown kids, conservative kids he says who won't accept me if they find out I was born male. He's proud of me in public and doesn't hesitate to hold me, kiss me, open doors for me, etc., but in his private life I'm in the shadows and it hurts me badly. He's getting a surgery for a broken nose on Tuesday and because of an arrangement I signed off on, his family is, at least for now, off limits. So I won't be able to see him for at least a week or more, because he's going to stay at his daughter's house. We were on the phone today and weren't even talking about my shadow life, but I blurted out "You know we're not going to be able to see each other for awhile because I'm ->-bleeped-<-ing trans," which I don't usually think or speak of in such harsh terms, and then I said, "This just sucks, honey, I just wish I was born female, because I know I wouldn't..." He said loudly, "Stop it, Mira. You're all woman to me, I never even think of you any other way!" And he sounded disappointed in me, and I almost started crying, because we get along so well I know there'd be no issue at all if I was cis female. And I wanted to say 'if I'm all woman to you, sweetie, then why are you ashamed of your kids meeting me?' But I didn't, because we had a really terrible blow out that almost broke us up because I refused to be off in the shadows anymore. When we got back together, or back on track, he ended up telling me that I'm the only transwoman he's ever been with and he's hardly even used to it yet. And that he never expected to fall in love again with anyone, let alone me. I've been at a loss what to think till I read these two quotes tonight and each made perfect sense to me

Quote from: Sibila on October 06, 2013, 06:26:52 AM
I also know he is afraid to find out what they think of me.

Quote from: Dahlia on October 24, 2013, 04:11:22 PM
He's afraid fo find out what they think of him!

I think that's exactly what he's afraid of. Not what they're going to think of me, but him. And I'm going to tell him that tomorrow. Thank you, Sibila and Dahlia and God bless you both. Mira

Quote from: <3 on October 24, 2013, 04:59:36 PM
  Its perfectly possible to be heterosexual and like MTFs.  Its also very common for crossdressers to be hetero. 

Yes, most crossdressers are hetero. And attracted to MTF. And not recognisable as cd's at first but as hetero men at first.
It's a very unpleasant surprise for a MTF who's into men only to find  out she's with  some kind of a hidden woman.
Who's not with a MTF for love but for selfish reasons such as projection and wanting to play a woman with someone 'who understands'/ a MTF.

Quote from: Miranda Elizabeth on October 25, 2013, 12:50:25 AM
When I first saw this thread about half and hour ago, I thought, 'great, I need to get this off my chest.' Then I read a few posts and decided not to read anymore. I have enough depression over this very subject, and the line between what I'm doing and what I should be doing has blurred to the point that I no longer know if leaving him would be any solution at all. I've lived in reality only the last two years of my life, as the woman I've always been. I was a male impersonator before now. I pass without any problems whatsoever and although I'm very much at ease in my skin now and am never clocked, once in awhile I still think, 'Wow, Mira. You're actually doing what you wanted to do for your whole life.' Anyway, I've been seeing a man for a year now that I'm deeply in love with, and I'm sure he loves me. He's been divorced for over twenty years and has two grown kids, conservative kids he says who won't accept me if they find out I was born male. He's proud of me in public and doesn't hesitate to hold me, kiss me, open doors for me, etc., but in his private life I'm in the shadows and it hurts me badly. He's getting a surgery for a broken nose on Tuesday and because of an arrangement I signed off on, his family is, at least for now, off limits. So I won't be able to see him for at least a week or more, because he's going to stay at his daughter's house. We were on the phone today and weren't even talking about my shadow life, but I blurted out "You know we're not going to be able to see each other for awhile because I'm ->-bleeped-<-ing trans," which I don't usually think or speak of in such harsh terms, and then I said, "This just sucks, honey, I just wish I was born female, because I know I wouldn't..." He said loudly, "Stop it, Mira. You're all woman to me, I never even think of you any other way!" And he sounded disappointed in me, and I almost started crying, because we get along so well I know there'd be no issue at all if I was cis female. And I wanted to say 'if I'm all woman to you, sweetie, then why are you ashamed of your kids meeting me?' But I didn't, because we had a really terrible blow out that almost broke us up because I refused to be off in the shadows anymore. When we got back together, or back on track, he ended up telling me that I'm the only transwoman he's ever been with and he's hardly even used to it yet. And that he never expected to fall in love again with anyone, let alone me. I've been at a loss what to think till I read these two quotes tonight and each made perfect sense to me I think that's exactly what he's afraid of. Not what they're going to think of me, but him. And I'm going to tell him that tomorrow. Thank you, Sibila and Dahlia and God bless you both. Mira

Do you have children, Mira? Because this sounds that this is much more about how your man feels about his kids, rather than how he feels about you.

My grown-up children are having a VERY hard time dealing with the thought of me transitioning - and I can't blame them because they're losing the father they love and can't yet imagine having a relationship with the woman 'he' (as they see me) will eventually become. So I'm incredibly sensitive to their feelings and their needs.

Now I would love, years from now, to have a man in my life. But I know that would be incredibly tough for my kids to deal with. And that's not because they're bigoted, or transphobic, it's because it IS incredibly tough to think of your Dad becoming someone's girlfriend. It just scrambles any son or daughter's whole sense of who their parents are, what their family is and what that means about them, too.

That being the case, I can imagine being very, very cautious about introducing a male partner to my kids. it would lead a lot of careful work over a long time, preparing the ground, getting them used to the idea and generally helping them come to terms with what has happened in my life, and letting them know that none of this could ever affect the love I have for them.

Likewise, if my imaginary (for now!  ;) ) partner had kids of his own, I can understand that he might have to go through a similar process with them, because they'd find it very odd that their father was dating, as people say, 'a woman who used to be a man.'

Now, I know that YOU don't see it that way. Like all of us, you see your female self as your true self, and the male persona as the fake one. But we have to be realistic and accept that, even for people who are not prejudiced or mean, that's a very difficult idea to understand.

So if your man is trying to find a way to show his love for you, and deal with children who find it very hard to accept, then I think that's understandable. He's torn between two very different, but very powerful forms of love. I know it's terribly hard for you. Please don't think I'm at all unsympathetic to your position.

But one thing I would say is: please don't push him to the point where he has to choose between you and his children. That's an awful choice for any parent to have to make ... and in the end, the kind of decent, caring, dutiful man you'd want to love would always put his children first. Plus, I'm sure you're not the kind of woman who'd want to separate a father from his children, even if he did pick you.

It sounds to me like you've really found a keeper. So if you want to keep him, give him time. I'm sure he'll find a way to bring his children round. It could take a while. But it will all be worth it in the end.

Hi Carlita,
     No, I don't have kids. I got a girl pregnant not once, but twice, and both times she ended the pregnancies because she felt I'd be living as a woman before they'd even make it out of diapers. She was off by 27 years, but who's counting. Both were incredibly heartbreaking experiences at the time and sometimes, even now. As far as my man, I love him a lot and I'm sure he's a keeper. A few days ago he told me "Don't project your negative vision on our future together, Mira. You don't know what could happen, because I sure don't. I love you, and I hope that's enough for now." He's pretty much everything I love in a guy, except for his health, which scares me a great deal. I lost my brother earlier this year and my mom had a stroke last December that has gutted her once excellent vocabulary, ability to speak and most importantly, her memory. It's been a very, very difficult year for me. I celebrated two years of finally living as the real me, Miranda, on September 7th, and stayed sober through all of it, partly because he's also a recovering alcoholic. I don't know if I could have coped without him. And he definitely WANTS me to have my SRS. To me, he's a keeper, for sure!

Quote from: Miranda Elizabeth on October 25, 2013, 08:13:59 AM
Hi Carlita,
     No, I don't have kids. I got a girl pregnant not once, but twice, and both times she ended the pregnancies because she felt I'd be living as a woman before they'd even make it out of diapers. She was off by 27 years, but who's counting. Both were incredibly heartbreaking experiences at the time and sometimes, even now. As far as my man, I love him a lot and I'm sure he's a keeper. A few days ago he told me "Don't project your negative vision on our future together, Mira. You don't know what could happen, because I sure don't. I love you, and I hope that's enough for now." He's pretty much everything I love in a guy, except for his health, which scares me a great deal. I lost my brother earlier this year and my mom had a stroke last December that has gutted her once excellent vocabulary, ability to speak and most importantly, her memory. It's been a very, very difficult year for me. I celebrated two years of finally living as the real me, Miranda, on September 7th, and stayed sober through all of it, partly because he's also a recovering alcoholic. I don't know if I could have coped without him. And he definitely WANTS me to have my SRS. To me, he's a keeper, for sure!

I'm so sorry for the loss of your brother and for your mother's stroke, Mira. It's also very sad that you missed out on the chance to be a parent. But I'm really, really glad for you that you've found such a great guy and I'm sure you two will find a way to make it work. Every time I see my therapist she tells me how easy it is for an MTF to get laid and how hard it is to find a man who'll love us, let alone be proud of us. So a little part of me is actually quite jealous of you finding your man! But not so jealous that I won't wish you both all the happiness in the world. It sounds as though you've really earned it!

Huh? My GF is carrying me around like a freakin trophy! Then again I look/sound cis so I wouldn't know but maybe this guy thinks you're visibly trans which is no excuse but at the same time men deal with more internalized homophobia than women. Men are much more insecure...

Well, some days i like to think I am good enough to be a woman...in looks I mean...but well....if it bothers people still....then Im probably not passable at all...so it makes you feel kind of...ehm...

But on the other hand....i am trans and that should be enough.

Dont let you self esteem take a hit. Understand that although no one has the right to make you feel the way you do. He has to come to terms with his trans oriented feeling the same way we had to come to term with our feeling before and during transition. Also understand for the sake of you happiness you may not be able to wait for him to accept himself and you.

Quote from: Doctorwho? on October 24, 2013, 06:16:53 AM
To answer the specific point first, I don't really think that someone who is ashamed to be with you, is really loving you. They are using you, and not even admitting that fact, so I would not call that a healthy relationship.

That said, Love is a very complex thing. Let me take a small risk and share a few details of my own story, in the hope that they may help someone who struggles with love, or worries about their future.

When I was young I used to worry about who would find me attractive. I have PAIS so I knew that I was likely to be sterile as a male, and as a corrected female this became a certainty. So I couldn't have my own kids and it worried me that which ever role I had chosen, anyone "normal" might eventually find that to be a disappointment. So the relationship would break down.

Now I lost my father at an early age, and that left me with a slight fear of abandonment, so to me that idea that the relationship would be long-term and reliable became an important factor.

In the end I settled down with a wonderful trans woman, and although it wasn't what either of us "wanted" it was what we needed.

She had the added complication that her operation had major complications which had left her unable to consummate a relationship with a man, so her only option was a woman, which wasn't what she wanted... but I realised that although I was not a man, and did not identify as one, I could perhaps act out the role well enough to satisfy her. So thats what I did. I didn't seek to become male or anything, I just made it my business to try and fulfil the "role" of one in our relationship.

We became wonderful companions and she supported me through some of the most difficult years of my life following the death of my mother.

In turn I protected her from her, often hostile, family, and tried to give her the opportunity to be the housewife and homemaker that she so wanted to be.

In the event we were together for well over two decades.

She is now dying with early onset dementia – and harrowingly seems to have forgotten that she has had the SRS and is often back to believing herself to be a 14 year old boy with severe dysphoria. It is so sad to see her ending her life in terrible internal pain and suffering.

At the time we got together people accused me of selling out, joining the freakshow, setting up a ghetto, being perverted ->-bleeped-<- – regretting my own gender decision, you name it I've been accuse of it – a surprising amount of the time from within the LGB and indeed trans communities!!!

The point is I have loved and been loved. That is all that matters! Life is not like a baskin-robins Ice cream parlour. You don't always get to choose your PERFECT flavour. With luck what you do get is something which is edible and pleasant, and if you achieve that then you've won.

I think this is so important to understand, because by observation, those of us who are good at compromise, generally end up with better life satisfaction than those for whom it has to be perfect! If you are transitioning to become the perfect woman with the perfect relationship, then you have to be SO LUCKY, and for most of you it simply won't happen.

On the other hand, if you can compromise, and learn to get the best out of whatever life throws your way, then you have a much higher chance of being happy.

Thanks for this post! And sharing your view and experiences... and honestly? What you told me really impressed me... because my life has always been about compromise... its the way I made it this far... its the way I survived and still survive. This stuff is honest... and it is something that you can work with.  Thank you!

Also, I want to wish you the best of luck and love and strenght going through this. I cannot imagine how hard this must be for you. Seeing the one you love suffer like that and not being able to doing anything for her.