My wife, after I upended the applecart by saying there was a part of me that wanted to consider transition and or hormones, totally freaked out on me. She's always known I have tg issues, but I've always maintained that I identified as male.
One thing she asked me and I could not answer, why I can't just add whatever behaviors to my maleness.
I couldn't answer
I hate that question. I think most of us have heard it before, and it sucks. A legendary punk rock icon once told me, in regards to transitioning, life is short, and you have to be you. The same legendary punk rock badass also said the people who can handle you are your friends. Those who can't, you give them room. They'll come if and when they're ready.
Oh, did I ever try to play out the hand I was dealt. I thought for decades that I could get away with it and die with my deepest, darkest secret intact with nobody ever suspecting a thing. I didn't even allow myself to wear women's clothes until last year when I had my meltdown.
The problem was that this little thing that was just a whisper in the background when I was a kid turned into this thing that felt like it was constricting and clawing at my brain when I was 12. I learned to cope with it with denial and suppression, then later on, drugs, alcohol and overeating. When I was in my 20s it got worse. I stuck to my guns and I was still able to tough it out. In my 30s, during a very stressful time I overate, drank a lot and got quite large. Somehow, the moobs were somewhat comforting and losing weight wasn't the priority it should have been. I still thought there was really no way I was actually transgender. I told myself it was a passing thing I could get through, and I kept up the denial. Dysphoria levels were never constant and came in waves anyway. I started smoking a lot of weed and drinking even more as soon as I could afford to. I kept going through this horrible cycle until I had serious health problems that caused me to lose all of the excess weight. Then the dysphoria hit like a ton of bricks. I NEEDED to wear women's attire and be well, myself. It was very painful at times and I spent a lot of time crying in a fetal position with a teddy bear. I wanted that thing between my legs gone forever and to be seen by all as a girl, and knowing I probably could never do it made it worse. I didn't want to live like I was, but deep down I knew I didn't really want to die either. That little whisper had become a sad, angry woman screaming in my head and it just wouldn't go away anymore. My life became impossible to live as it had been, I was at the end of my rope and I got help. My therapist basically saved my life, pulled me out of the gutter and set me free. I'm also very grateful for my wife being so understanding and having the same shoe size as me.
If I had not got therapy and hormones when I did, I'm not sure I'd be here right now typing this. It seems most transsexuals are presented with 3 alternatives once the initial coping mechanisms fail: transition, be miserable and eventually go crazy or die. Nobody wants to be a transsexual, but it was certainly my best option and I'm glad I went there. I am happy for the first time in my adult life and I want nothing more than to run out the clock smelling the roses.
I have heard the exact same thing from my wife. We are separated now unfortunately because my answer wasn't satisfactory to her.
My answer? The "me" that she knew and that I thought I was for 50 years..... was a fabrication. Sure, maybe I could go on trying to live that lie, but living like that was killing me one drink at a time. Why was I drinking? To escape who I was. Like Jill it started out as a whisper, a gentle breeze blowing when I was about 45, and by the time I had reached 50 it was a shout, a hurricane.
My therapist rescued me from where I was headed; thank heavens I found her when I did.
So no, I could not go on being that person and still be alive. I could have chosen to keep living the lie and die, but instead I made the choice to live and be my authentic self. Sure it's been hard and there are plenty of challenges that lie ahead, but the alternative is far worse.
If people don't like what I've had to do - tough, they don't have to walk in my shoes - I do.
Never let anyone tell you who you should be. Make that decision for yourself.
Im not sure If I can answer that myself , everyone has their own answer...
But for me being a man feels like suppressing my self, like living a life thats not mine.
Its as if someone decided to prank me and put my soul or whatever in the wrong body...
How can I remain a man while having all those feelings inside me?
Its as if my real inner self wont allow it anymore...and Im fine with that.
That kind of question just shows a lack of understanding for what trans people are feeling. It's like saying to someone they should only read a few pages of a safety manual to get a "feel" for it but without ever reading the rest even though their life depends on it.
I tried it til I was 32.I was blotting it out with beer,speed and weed and heading for a coffin.I wouldn't have commited suicide but had an accident,many times I set the kitchen on fire cooking while wasted or passed out in the bath.It was like putting a sticking plaster on a bullet wound.
Quote from: particle on December 05, 2013, 08:07:27 PM
One thing she asked me and I could not answer, why I can't just add whatever behaviors to my maleness.
For me it's not about behaviors.
I don't need to be LIKE a woman.
I need to BE a woman.
I've never actually felt drawn to female behaviors. I never crossdressed, for example. I've just always had this thought that it would be wonderful if I truly was a woman.
I have to agree with part of what Jill said. I thought I could take it all the way to death. But there was one day watching my then 3 month old that I realized eventually my alone time would consist of less than an hour a day, and I couldn't live with that. After truly confronting the problem on my own, I came out.
My wife and I tried to compromise several times, with each being somewhat closer to transition. But in the end I realized that what I needed was more than a double life. I needed to be what I felt on the inside. Adding behaviors wasn't part of it. Being effeminate wouldn't work for me either. Matching the mind to the mirror, so to speak, is what really matters to me.
Early on I got a lot of this... from my wife and my parents. They were basically asking me to just be more androgynous and remain male. Ask any androgyn if it's easier to be halfway... Heck... it's starting to get difficult on me (though I like the changes :P) because I'm looking much more fem and am still clearly male.
What they're doing is entering a bargaining stage of grief. You'll also experience denial and anger from them.
Besides all that... I feel terrible. Sometimes absolutely terrible for days at a time (though usually just for a few hours). My hormones are screwed up and I need them fixed. I never would have made it 35 years if I hadn't found my own ways to put a patch on the problem (I was fat... obesity significantly reduces testosterone and I can absolutely tell that for true now that I've lost a lot of weight - or I'm nuts... but my therapist doesn't think I'm crazy).
This dysphoria spike started when I started losing weight while resistance training. I think that losing the round disguise with moob shrinkage and t release from the fat, triggered something visceral in me.
Tell her to dress up as a man and be a man for even a week, and just add her femaleness to that, and she will have her answer.
Quote from: particle on December 05, 2013, 08:07:27 PM
My wife, after I upended the applecart by saying there was a part of me that wanted to consider transition and or hormones, totally freaked out on me. She's always known I have tg issues, but I've always maintained that I identified as male.
One thing she asked me and I could not answer, why I can't just add whatever behaviors to my maleness.
I couldn't answer
The longer and longer I have lived life now in both sexes the more I understand that a lot of "gendering" is social in nature and only enforced by the downstairs plumbing rule. I think that is a very shallow view of the world and one that non-T people understand but refuse to accept. Both men and women break gender rules and boundaries every day and it's no big deal unless they are called out on it. Ask any woman who grew up a tomboy playing with toy trucks and toy guns but still turned out to be a normal woman.
Growing boobs, removing facial hair, growing our head hair and ultimately altering the downstairs plumbing isn't a social "gendering" exercise anymore and that's the taboo in my mind. That part is where the non-T world draws the line. Going down this path means taking on not just the social role but the physical role as well. People get scared because they don't know who this new physical person is, what they will be like, etc. will they still like do the old things they did before but in a different physical form, or will that change too? One can go on and on with rhetorical questions.
So if you took on female related social gendering but didn't physically change does that still make you the same person? If you took on a new physical form as well as social is that the real end goal?
That's not even remotely the same. I've had 38 years to adapt to being male. Yes I feel like a robot, but it's vaguely viable.
It's not a symmetrical situation. In order to come close, I'd be so swishy, the same social stigmas would hit her
Quote from: particle on December 05, 2013, 08:07:27 PM
One thing she asked me and I could not answer, why I can't just add whatever behaviors to my maleness.
When you're drowning, why can't you just
pretend to breathe? That'll work, right?
Our loved ones don't need to understand
why we are the way we are. They only need to understand that it's real, it's not going to go away and it will eventually eat us alive. They don't have to like it. They just have to accept that reality sucks sometimes; but we do the best we can, and we stick with the people we love through the hardest of times.
Why? I don't know. Why at age 14 was I seriously driven to cut off the offending bits? Why, at 20, was I on the brink of suicide because SRS wasn't available? Why, because I WASN'T a man, couldn't pass for one, and didn't wasn't to be one.
Why the hell do you want to be in a gender that looks down and stigmatizes you for being yourself?
It's damn unhealthy to be naturally feminine and born a genetic male. You either have to put up a front or have to deal with being looked down upon by a society that celebrates masculinity and macho traits. As a woman, you are free to be feminine and live up to your feminine potential. It helps tremendously when you can get positive feedback from others when you are being yourself.
Anyway that even just disregards body dysphoria, as in that maybe some of us also desire having a female body? Not to mention the inner gender dysphoria of much of us of what gender we feel like?
One of the weirdest things is that I can't separate masculine strength from violence in my head. The image if myself in my head is this tall, athletic woman, strong and feminine. I can't be her without changes.
That "image" in your head says a lot about you Particle and may be the core of your identity concerns. One thing I am learning with my transition is that I really do not know when and how this will turn out. For me the biggest change came with self acceptance. Counseling and HRT have provided a journey that I had only imagined and I am a different girl/woman than I expected.
You can be that strong and feminine person and explore your options as you make some of those "changes" even while still presenting as male. It is a complicated dance for you and your partner and not everyone has that "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" feeling like I did. And then I don't recommend waiting as long as I did either.
Being transgender usually means those images in our head will not just go away.
Answer the call to be yourself. Live free!
Quote from: particle on December 05, 2013, 08:07:27 PM
My wife, after I upended the applecart by saying there was a part of me that wanted to consider transition and or hormones, totally freaked out on me. She's always known I have tg issues, but I've always maintained that I identified as male.
One thing she asked me and I could not answer, why I can't just add whatever behaviors to my maleness.
I couldn't answer
Tell her it isn't just about female or male 'behaviors'. It's about the totality of who you are and your identity. I think she is worried about losing your male side. Maybe she doesn't want to lose your ability to have sex with her? What are her fears? Maybe she's afraid of what society will think about the two of you as a couple. Get into her head.
Quote from: Gina_Z on December 06, 2013, 01:48:55 PMMaybe she's afraid of what society will think about the two of you as a couple.
Specifically her family, I think.
Quote from: particle on December 05, 2013, 08:07:27 PM
One thing she asked me and I could not answer, why I can't just add whatever behaviors to my maleness.
Hi Particle,
This wasn't her first position was it? Did she start off being totally against any femininity? Did she then accept a little more? Now she's taking one last stand against total transition with this question? I'm just curious because I'm at the 2nd stage now and I'm wondering if I'm headed for your question.
As for the question, I'm wondering what she meant by "behaviors".
This is exactly her original position.
Quote from: particle on December 06, 2013, 12:46:56 PM
One of the weirdest things is that I can't separate masculine strength from violence in my head.
This is a really deep problem, and if you can come up with a solution, I'd like to hear. In the meantime, perhaps Orwell's essay Shooting an Elephant (http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/887/) might ask some of the right questions.
Quote from: particle on December 06, 2013, 02:42:45 PM
This is exactly her original position.
I would say it means she hasn't fully explored what her feelings are... maybe I can try to explain.
So, first up
everyone has
some maleness no matter how feminine. So "adding whatever behaviors to your maleness" is not an entirely inaccurate view of transition - or at least the building-up half. But the other side of it would be "letting go of whatever maleness was just a facade." I wonder if she fears that
she will end up being one of the old scabs you cast off - or if the things she appreciates most in you were just a lie.
I do not think you can avoid that issue forever.
As you make changes, you both will come to a clearer idea of what your feelings are. I think you should do your best to understand and share hers, so she doesn't feel left behind. You don't
know what the problems will be yet, so it's foolish to assume.
Why? Because who I am isn't a man. If your significant other can't come to terms with that, I'm not sure what to say.
Looking at it from her perspective, she probably feels like she's losing her husband. She probably feels like she has no control in any of this, and that whatever she's feeling gets drowned out in all the noise and confusion because this is about you, and she can't understand what you're feeling.
It's probably terrifying to her that you would literally transform before her eyes. She might feel like she's watching her husband disappear and some woman emerge to take "his" place. Like the female you would be the imposter. Because she's only ever known the male you, or so she believes.
I don't mean to put words in her mouth. But I'd bet her resistance is more motivated by fear of losing you than by what other people would think. The thing is, telling her "I'll be the same person" is little consolation, and I can understand why loved ones don't buy it.
The best you can do (imo) is be very patient with her and let her express her hurt. And don't forgot to tell her once in a while how much it means to you that she's stuck with you through all this. Whatever tomorrow brings, let her know you feel lucky to have her here with you right now. Be there for her as much as you want her to be there for you. I guess what I'm saying is, don't let her feel abandoned in your transition.
Just my 2c. :-\
I hope it all works out for you two. :)
The worst part is this identity I'm feeling boiling up, and wanting to express is the person she married, so much more than the one she deals with today. AT some point, a shame switch went off, and I pushed away feminity, and it took away a lot of my emotions with it.
Wife saw what site I was on. Issue is now smoldering.
Did you get to mention the SO's section? Maybe she would like to check out PFLAG just to get an idea of what life can be like.
Quote from: particle on December 06, 2013, 10:15:35 PM
wanting to express is the person she married
I don't usually use caps lock, because it reads like shouting, but
TELL HER THIS YOU BIG DOPE!!
Why can't you be yourself and Remain a man?
A real simple question with a real simple answer based on a real simple assumption, that you know who or what yourself is! After a lifetime of not ever discovering/developing/growing into and as yourself how is it possible?
For me the first step was admitting, I mean really admitting to myself, that I am more than a CD and needed to figure out where on the TG spectrum I currently reside. Admitting, seeking outside help, support, was the easy part. The last three or more years I've been working on the who.
The growth process has been difficult. Plenty of tears. Plenty of Joy. When it seems to getting easier another challenge comes along. Always moving me towards Better. Always moving me more towards learning who I am, the totality of me. Not the image I created and lived up to for decades. Not the image I kept locked away in the deepest darkest dungeon of my soul. I am not either of those aspects.
What I will grow into after they are mixed I am still discovering as I continue to stir the pot. Wearing trousers most days, a skirt on others. The flavor, the taste, forever altered. Like the contents of that pot I no longer "Remain" the same. Nor do I ever want to be that person I was again. My greatest fear in life is reverting back to that person.
BTW - My wife also does not want to see that other person again. She agrees that the 2.0 version is far better. More like the 0.4 version she first tried. The 2.1 is a bit better. Getting used to the new "Look and Feel" of the user interface is a bit of a challenge. The added features make it worthwhile.
The more I'm going over and over this in my mind the more I realize that I maybe overlooking a lot of what I like about being male. I think I'm falling victim to the "Black and White" thinking that is central to my depression.
A request to take the an assertive role a bit more in intimate situations, gets interpreted as "I hate the female side of you.", and "Be a Man"
I feel rejected, my libido drops, I get resentful. "Being a man" turns into a self-denying passive aggressive whole life temper tantrum.
My screwed up gender role assumptions start picking off all my fun activities, and my innate dislike of traditional "guy stuff" makes it harder for me to take up the slack, so I slowly turn into a robot.
Now, my depression starts abating, I drop my fear of femininity, and discover my true self in the feminine box, the black and white issue rears its head and "hey, thinking of myself as female is fighting the depression" becomes "I am not complete without at least some HRT", which then becomes a depression trigger
I'm gonna take a hard step back from the idea of HRT and Transition. I'm gonna switch to a therapist with some gender experience, maybe try a support group. I probably just have to do more stuff I like and do some more active dressing up, once privacy returns.
particle-
My thoughts are with you as you explore this unfamiliar path. We tend to go back and forth and side to side and weave and wobble as me make the journey, and sometimes we run out of gas or encounter dangerous things, or we find that we have taken a wrong turn or have gone in circles. Still, it sounds like you are taking a reasonable, thoughtful, careful approach as you travel the path, and you are being thoughtful about the safety and well being of your passengers. There is no road guide or atlas or GPS for us, we have to find our own way, often alone.
I know that as you make your way you will hit bumps and ruts, but I hope things work out well for you.
~Eva
I think therapy and dressing up can help you. I found that I liked dressing up around the house because I enjoyed feeling even more feminine than I did without dressing up. At first maybe you can become comfortable with a middle ground, androgynous state of mind where you determine who you are and how feminine you actually are. Get away from the extremes, the black and white view of gender. A goal of accepting yourself as you are.
I had the same question asked of me.
Why I can not add just a little and present the old exterior? Well, I am growing my identity and as my identity grows there is less and less room for lies and less and less room for the false exterior. I want to be me, inside and out. Taste a little freedom, acceptance an welcoming and tell me that does not feel soooo good. How can a starving person just have one potato chip?
Speed and depth of a transition is up to your comfort and need. However, if felt warranted, external changes are an expression of how you feel you need to be. For me I am changing slowly. I would express it as removing (slowly) the male trappings and expressing my feminine self. I am not adding to the male. I am removing from the female.
I can't relate to that. Why can't you allow yourself to slowly transition? Like start by plucking your eyebrows, reading women's magazines, watching TV shows that are designed more for women, start wearing feminine underwear. You're in-tune with some of these things right? I just don't get the all or nothing philosophy. I don't think there's that much pressure from the outside to conform to an ultra masculine persona. I think the amount of lying is up to us. We don't need to go to an extreme change in a few hours. That kind of urgency just doesn't sound healthy to me. Hey, I could be wrong.
Quote from: particle on December 07, 2013, 10:35:02 AM
I'm gonna switch to a therapist with some gender experience, maybe try a support group.
That is probably the best thing you can do for yourself right now.
A smart decision. :)
QuoteWhy can't you be yourself and Remain a man?
Because, after looking at who I am on the inside, how I know myself, and all my experiences, past relationships, social interactions, desires, emotions, and passions...
...I've never been a man in the first place.I'm a female human being that had her body walk off in the wrong direction for some annoying reason.
It reached the point where I decided to fight back.
Quote from: Andrea_LS on December 08, 2013, 07:22:40 AM
Because, after looking at who I am on the inside, how I know myself, and all my experiences, past relationships, social interactions, desires, emotions, and passions...
...I've never been a man in the first place.
I'm a female human being that had her body walk off in the wrong direction for some annoying reason.
It reached the point where I decided to fight back.
I don't know about you, but I reached the point where I had no choice but to fight back... ;)
Sorry, I just hate that word "decision" with this stuff... I get the whole "your decision" BS a lot. Yes... there is some choice involved but the alternatives, slow self destruction and automatonous living, were not palatable. Calling the decision to transition sure makes being transgender sound like a choice ~ at least when coming from cis.
I doubt my wife realizes how much talking to other transgender folks tends to affirm my basically having more like both a male and female identity, or some kind of blended gender than just a female one.
I just have been supressing the feminine too much for a long time.
My experience is very much like everyone else here that question was also asked of me by my x wife but her argument was " think of the children ". Well actually my daughters support me and understand me as I am not how they want me to be.
For me the whisper started at about 8 and grew into a nagging yell in my teen years in my 20s it grew louder but was still most,y ignored then at around 30 I started cross dressing at home to lessen the noise in my head which worked to a degree. I started drinking and doing weed a couple of years later to cope everyday but I knew something else had to be done.
Thinking it would make me feel more ' normal ' I got married at 36 but as the years went on I only got more depressed and desperate for inner peace, I finally came out to my then wife and she wend bonkers " how can you do this to me " she would say " I've wasted my whole life on you " .
After we seperated I started dressing again but this time at home and in public p/t it seemed to ease my mental anguish but now 8 months later I am wanting more it seems that nothing I do can alleviate the screaming in my head, I have found myself weighing up the options of going on with this or just ending it all and being at peace forever.
All I can do is take it 1 day at a time until April when I see my therapist for the first time and hope that he will be able to save me from myself and give me some happiness back.
PS sorry if I started rambling just had to get it out.
Emily.T xx
[ftpAfter we seperated I started dressing again but this time at home and in public p/t it seemed to ease my mental anguish but now 8 months later I am wanting more it seems that nothing I do can alleviate the screaming in my head, I have found myself weighing up the options of going on with this or just ending it all and being at peace forever.
][/ftp]
Emily;
Most of us weigh the options and have been where you are, hugs. If it becomes too great a pressure call the hotline 1-800-273talk. It helps to add something to the list as a positive or eliminate a negative or both. I know that therapy, Susan's and HRT have made life bearable.
I've used this name for a while... Almost 20 years.
I never realized that it could be taken as a metaphor for a quantum gendered state that is both male and female.
I think I just solved my gender question .
Thank you Cynthia for your kind words it helps to know that I am not on my own and there is help available and also that others have been where I am and have come through it.
Emily.T xx
I'm now looking over my online behavior for a few weeks and considering I may be developing serious mental health issyes
Quote from: particle on December 09, 2013, 12:19:18 AM
I'm now looking over my online behavior for a few weeks and considering I may be developing serious mental health issyes
If you're outside the USA, some of this may not apply to you:
I'm not a psychologist, but... many problem behaviors are patterned from normal behaviors. Don't drive yourself to anxiety over it! I don't know what issues you think you're having, but you should definitely be looking for a gender therapist ASAP! If you cannot find one, a regular therapist is good in the interim. Your GP can prescribe medication for non transgender issues, especially with guidance from a therapist (i.e. depression and anxiety medications). Some GPs will prescribe transgender HRT, but usually you need an endocrinologist and a letter from your therapist.
Quote from: kabit on December 08, 2013, 07:55:53 AM
Sorry, I just hate that word "decision" with this stuff... I get the whole "your decision" BS a lot. Yes... there is some choice involved but the alternatives, slow self destruction and automatonous living, were not palatable. Calling the decision to transition sure makes being transgender sound like a choice ~ at least when coming from cis.
I think it's a "choice" in the sense that you can choose to be happy, or you can choose to be miserable. Even if you can choose to be miserable, why would you want to?
My reasons for not wanting to continue to be recognized as male are simple. It's not who I am, and it's not how I want others to see me. There are also the crippling self esteem issues I have associated with presenting as male. And transitioning or not, I still can't tolerate having male levels of testosterone in my body without it making me feel horrible all the time. Considering this, why would I ever want to continue being male if I had any choice about it?
Quote from: Miyuki on December 09, 2013, 06:39:17 AM
I think it's a "choice" in the sense that you can choose to be happy, or you can choose to be miserable. Even if you can choose to be miserable, why would you want to?
My reasons for not wanting to continue to be recognized as male are simple. It's not who I am, and it's not how I want others to see me. There are also the crippling self esteem issues I have associated with presenting as male. And transitioning or not, I still can't tolerate having male levels of testosterone in my body without it making me feel horrible all the time. Considering this, why would I ever want to continue being male if I had any choice about it?
This is the same argument that I'm presently having with my mom. She wants me to remain as a man, more sya to benefit her and to be less of an embarassment to her as well. But she doesn't take into account of how I feel about the situation, and that it's my life that she's dealing with. I've told her that I'm a non-op, so I will not be administering any hormones to my body, nor will there be any excessive cost for my transitioning. But she just doesn't want to see it my way and give me the choice of being happy instead of being miserable.
Yes I can, I have no problem being male, but if there are other better option, why not.
I either have to can this idea that I'm a woman, or lie to my wife forever, or lose her. I'm not even entirely sure whether I believe my crazy ramblings any more.
I know I'll write cheery poetry.
QuoteWhat to do today.
Sleep is a little bit of death.
We wake up and start a war of attrition.
When we cannot keep fight it off,
We surrender.
Only to awaken on the front line.
Crap, that was depressing.
As much as many transwomen want to keep their wives, the only way I see it working is if she's either consciously or unconsciously bisexual. If she's the kind of woman that loves someone for who they are, regardless of their sex (some women like this are unconsciously bisexual.) If she's not bisexual and not comfortable with being seen as lesbian, it's not going to work out eventually.
Fact is that a heterosexual woman wants a man. This is the unfortunate truth about many trans people, that we have unintentionally and unconsciously lied to everyone around us. With lies comes the consequences of lying. Even if we had a choice, many of us initially would have lied for fear of losing friends, family, and for fear of being an outcast, which are understandable reasons. This is what society has done to us, just as it had done to so many gay people long ago. By preventing or making it hostile for people to be whoever they are, they make people like us to unintentionally hurt or disappoint others around us because we didn't have the opportunity or the courage to find ourselves and live as who we really are in large part because of society not being as friendly toward people who didn't conform to their birth sex. It's not our fault, it's society's fault, for pushing people to conform to whatever society wants people to be (and moreso for genetic males than females) especially in the past.
Quote from: Katelyn on December 09, 2013, 12:32:48 PM
This is the unfortunate truth about many trans people, that we have unintentionally and unconsciously lied to everyone around us. With lies comes the consequences of lying. Even if we had a choice, many of us initially would have lied for fear of losing friends, family, and for fear of being an outcast, which are understandable reasons. This is what society has done to us, just as it had done to so many gay people long ago. By preventing or making it hostile for people to be whoever they are, they make people like us to unintentionally hurt or disappoint others around us because we didn't have the opportunity or the courage to find ourselves and live as who we really are in large part because of society not being as friendly toward people who didn't conform to their birth sex. It's not our fault, it's society's fault, for pushing people to conform to whatever society wants people to be (and moreso for genetic males than females) especially in the past.
Very well put Katelyn. Hopefully for younger generations this will become less and less a problem. For the older transgender people with families, I'm guessing we will have a struggle for the rest of our life conflicted over the decisions we have made.
This so awesome I'm gonna rip out my wife's heart and wind up a bloated 500 lb man who ruined his biology by messing with his hormones and is even more depressed and alone as a woman.
Hahaha my life is so awesome
Quote from: Katelyn on December 09, 2013, 12:32:48 PM
As much as many transwomen want to keep their wives, the only way I see it working is if she's either consciously or unconsciously bisexual. If she's the kind of woman that loves someone for who they are, regardless of their sex (some women like this are unconsciously bisexual.) If she's not bisexual and not comfortable with being seen as lesbian, it's not going to work out eventually.
Fact is that a heterosexual woman wants a man. This is the unfortunate truth about many trans people, that we have unintentionally and unconsciously lied to everyone around us. With lies comes the consequences of lying. Even if we had a choice, many of us initially would have lied for fear of losing friends, family, and for fear of being an outcast, which are understandable reasons. This is what society has done to us, just as it had done to so many gay people long ago. By preventing or making it hostile for people to be whoever they are, they make people like us to unintentionally hurt or disappoint others around us because we didn't have the opportunity or the courage to find ourselves and live as who we really are in large part because of society not being as friendly toward people who didn't conform to their birth sex. It's not our fault, it's society's fault, for pushing people to conform to whatever society wants people to be (and moreso for genetic males than females) especially in the past.
Society also molds our wives. They have a very difficult time accepting who we are because of who we are. I know my wife still loves me very much, and I know I do her. Truthfully, that makes the entire situation that much more painful for the both of us.
Particle, I'm sorry you have to go through this conflict. I've been going through my own conflict for 6 years already. Some decisions are really hard in life. It's even harder if you aren't 100% sure that you are transgender. Even if you are, you fear hurting loved ones and losing them. I wish I could tell you that you shouldn't sacrifice yourself, but I guess I have been doing so myself for especially the past 6 years already. I'll tell you that from my experience, that it's a pretty sad and many times miserable existence. The only thing that pulls me through is hope.
I just want to know and I don't have the balls to stand up to my wife's feminist sociological reasoning why I am not ts.
I just want to want to be a woman so I can blame everything on that rather than face up to being human garbage.
^ Transgender people, as well as the failed experiments of John Money should prove the feminists sociological theories wrong. Gender is based on both biology and nurture. Many people cling on to disproven ideas because they have an emotional stake on believing it (something that happened in their past for instance.) You don't have to believe or follow something of your wife just because of her viewpoint or whatever happened to her in her past, you are your own person.
Hmmm... I wonder what that could be... Maybe I should have joined military, done some parachute jumping (was my latest fixation before I flipped the switch)... I dunno what else would have worked, as I pretty much tried everything except for drugs and heavy drinking. Hunting & fishing? Always hated that and never was into cars/motorcycles either.
It was the damn strength training. It tripped the circuit breaker.
Created testosterone surge messed with myhead
Quote from: particle on December 09, 2013, 02:46:54 PM
It was the damn strength training. It tripped the circuit breaker.
Created testosterone surge messed with myhead
I HATED those. So glad I tanked the T!
I actually love it. In my transition fantasy, I'd lose a ton of weight before going on hrt, with aa knocking down my t, and e's influence, my body would resemble a strong muscular woman's body. I could live with that.
Except I need to stop obsessing and accept I will always be male
Quote from: Miyuki on December 09, 2013, 06:39:17 AM
I think it's a "choice" in the sense that you can choose to be happy, or you can choose to be miserable. Even if you can choose to be miserable, why would you want to?
Too black and white. At least IMO for us olde fogies. TBH, In my newly opened eyes, thanks to the efforts taken on to wrestle the trans beast, I have give about 70% of my male life as fairly good to amazing. Just as others have been trying to drill into my head. Zero self acceptance and zero self esteem had A LOT to do with me being blinded to it.
I grew up in a world where the basic philosophy was "Life sucks and then you die". So, as far as I am concerned I am kinda way ahead of the game here. I also know, all too painfully well, just how much joy, and happiness I feel being and presenting as the real me brings. Yet, to take a chance on chucking away a good portion of the 70% in the hope of having that extra 30% can come at a great cost, or none. (Full disclosure - I did try twice in my 20's to see if transitioning was right. That was a great time to. Just not the right time for me )
I know ignoring or otherwise not addressing me being TG (even a TS) has lead to some disasters. I also know so much of the real me is wrapped up in what I do for a living, as well as in my spare time. My wife is also a major part of my life. I know I spent a good 30 years turning into a miserable wretch. My life is far better, happier, even some joy in it now.
For me, the choice is "Can I be happier? Or, ruin a good thing?" No matter what there will be misery in my life in one form or another. I wish I can be commited to one path. I have no doubt when I finally reach that fork in the road I'll know which one. For now I try to enjoy the journey without worrying about the next turn comming up.
Is it bad that one of the reasons I want hormones is to stop mpb from ruining my hair
If I'm doing anything my thoughts are task oriented, but when I lose focus it's you want to feminized your body
Losing it
Quote from: JoanneB on December 09, 2013, 06:25:28 PM
Too black and white. At least IMO for us olde fogies. TBH, In my newly opened eyes, thanks to the efforts taken on to wrestle the trans beast, I have give about 70% of my male life as fairly good to amazing. Just as others have been trying to drill into my head. Zero self acceptance and zero self esteem had A LOT to do with me being blinded to it.
I grew up in a world where the basic philosophy was "Life sucks and then you die". So, as far as I am concerned I am kinda way ahead of the game here. I also know, all too painfully well, just how much joy, and happiness I feel being and presenting as the real me brings. Yet, to take a chance on chucking away a good portion of the 70% in the hope of having that extra 30% can come at a great cost, or none. (Full disclosure - I did try twice in my 20's to see if transitioning was right. That was a great time to. Just not the right time for me )
I know ignoring or otherwise not addressing me being TG (even a TS) has lead to some disasters. I also know so much of the real me is wrapped up in what I do for a living, as well as in my spare time. My wife is also a major part of my life. I know I spent a good 30 years turning into a miserable wretch. My life is far better, happier, even some joy in it now.
For me, the choice is "Can I be happier? Or, ruin a good thing?" No matter what there will be misery in my life in one form or another. I wish I can be commited to one path. I have no doubt when I finally reach that fork in the road I'll know which one. For now I try to enjoy the journey without worrying about the next turn comming up.
Yes, yes! Exactly.
Am I risking everything? Yes. I have a job, a house and home, a wife, and kids... all of which I love more than anything else. I was always taught "life isn't fair" which sounds pretty similar to the philosophy you were taught. You know what? Life and death are 100% fair; life is given to all of us and taken away at a moment's notice. Society and opportunity aren't equitable... but life is what you make of it.
Is it worth it? The answer will always be yes. I am more alive now and more myself now than I ever have been before. A lot of people in my family think I'm being selfish and hurting the kids. I say... if you have a medical problem it's only right to get it fixed. How can I give my children everything they need in life if I'm sick inside? How can I give them a loving parent when I cannot feel more than a muted sort of love? What about 10 years from now when I could have been taken from them early or develop severe complications due to uncontrollable diabetes (something I could see in my future)? What if I tried to keep it in and became alcoholic, or depressed, or acted out in a way to cause me to lose my job?
It is always the right decision to put your own health and well being before the desires of your family. "Need" always trumps "want" despite the turmoil our need clashing with society causes. My children (8, 4, 2) already accept me as female... yet my wife and family may never accept it. It is taboo in modern society and that societal negativity is what kept many of us closeted for so long. Is it my fault? No... sure, I wasn't strong enough to stand up to all of society as a young adult... just as I wasn't strong enough to stand up for myself against my parents as a teen... but I've gained a lot of strength and have the capability to find my cure, such as it may be.
Quote from: kabit on December 09, 2013, 08:40:17 PM
Yes, yes! Exactly.
Am I risking everything? Yes. I have a job, a house and home, a wife, and kids... all of which I love more than anything else. I was always taught "life isn't fair" which sounds pretty similar to the philosophy you were taught. You know what? Life and death are 100% fair; life is given to all of us and taken away at a moment's notice. Society and opportunity aren't equitable... but life is what you make of it.
Is it worth it? The answer will always be yes. I am more alive now and more myself now than I ever have been before. A lot of people in my family think I'm being selfish and hurting the kids. I say... if you have a medical problem it's only right to get it fixed. How can I give my children everything they need in life if I'm sick inside? How can I give them a loving parent when I cannot feel more than a muted sort of love? What about 10 years from now when I could have been taken from them early or develop severe complications due to uncontrollable diabetes (something I could see in my future)? What if I tried to keep it in and became alcoholic, or depressed, or acted out in a way to cause me to lose my job?
It is always the right decision to put your own health and well being before the desires of your family. "Need" always trumps "want" despite the turmoil our need clashing with society causes. My children (8, 4, 2) already accept me as female... yet my wife and family may never accept it. It is taboo in modern society and that societal negativity is what kept many of us closeted for so long. Is it my fault? No... sure, I wasn't strong enough to stand up to all of society as a young adult... just as I wasn't strong enough to stand up for myself against my parents as a teen... but I've gained a lot of strength and have the capability to find my cure, such as it may be.
I know I am a work in progress.
I have often told others that I love and care very much for that how can YOU help all those you want to if you don't take of yourself?
One of these days I hope to truly grok it for myself. I am still in basic survival mode, seeing a light at the end of a tunnel, knowing it is not the 3 mile long coal train barreling down on my ass.
I never felt I deserve anything good. I lived a life as a faker, a fraud. Do I deserve the chance at additional happiness? Sure. Do I really deserve the consequences? You bet!
I got over a lot to most of the shame. Guilt still haunts me. In large part because I still let it. A partially invalid wife complicates things more. While she is supportive for exactly the reason above, never the less, this is not what she signed up for.
I know where my heart, my hopes, wishes, dreams and joy lie. More so than ever. It's the other 70%, the pure intellect, the logic, the WTF are you thinking!!!???? part that has issues. The swing vote that leans one way yet can beat the rest back with a vengeance.
What I need, want, or deserve, is of no consequence for the greater good.
Guilt sucks!
Quote from: JoanneB on December 09, 2013, 09:31:35 PM
I know I am a work in progress.
I have often told others that I love and care very much for that how can YOU help all those you want to if you don't take of yourself?
One of these days I hope to truly grok it for myself. I am still in basic survival mode, seeing a light at the end of a tunnel, knowing it is not the 3 mile long coal train barreling down on my ass.
I never felt I deserve anything good. I lived a life as a faker, a fraud. Do I deserve the chance at additional happiness? Sure. Do I really deserve the consequences? You bet!
I got over a lot to most of the shame. Guilt still haunts me. In large part because I still let it. A partially invalid wife complicates things more. While she is supportive for exactly the reason above, never the less, this is not what she signed up for.
I know where my heart, my hopes, wishes, dreams and joy lie. More so than ever. It's the other 70%, the pure intellect, the logic, the WTF are you thinking!!!???? part that has issues. The swing vote that leans one way yet can beat the rest back with a vengeance.
What I need, want, or deserve, is of no consequence for the greater good.
Guilt sucks!
The best we can do is live with
♥...as much as we can muster.
How can I be something and someone I never was?
Dear -----,
This is the letter I can never send.
I can't send this, because this is the type of thing that said in a letter is even worse, and the last thing in the world I want to do is hurt you.
I didn't ask to be in this situation. I didn't make it up to get attention. I'm in real crisis here. You are in crisis too, and I need to understand that myself.
I have been feeling a strong desire to feminize my body and live as a woman. This feeling has been developing over the past year or so, and has been getting worse. I know this is upsetting to you so even when I've talked about this to you, I've lied. The urge I feel is to become as much of a woman as I can, barring genital surgery.
I'm not currently sure why. Is it true gender dysphoria? Is it some kind of sick subconscious Munchausen kinda thing? Is it psychological hypochondria? Is it that I am a weak-willed idiot who has let the online transgendered take advantage of me to fulfill their political agenda? Magical thinking of completely reinventing myself? Male inferiority complex / social awkwardness filtered through depression? Social anxiety and loneliness finding communities that will automatically reinforce you if you speak the shibboleth?
I don't know. You want to know what is going to happen, I can't tell you.
I know that I currently have recurring thoughts of wanting my body to be feminine, and this are causing me a lot of distress. Like brief suicidial impluses, brief urges to to random violence. Obsessively thinking about it when I am not actively engaged in something.
I've tried to talk to you about this, and it practical terms, you know all you need to. You said you don't care what's in my head, just what I do.
I'm not about to do anything drastic. I'm going to try to calm down, and find a new therapist I'll be more comfortable talking to about this. I just want to keep you informed. You already know most of this, but I needed to say this for me,
Quote from: Jillian on December 06, 2013, 11:08:13 AM
Our loved ones don't need to understand why we are the way we are. They only need to understand that it's real, it's not going to go away and it will eventually eat us alive. They don't have to like it. They just have to accept that reality sucks sometimes; but we do the best we can, and we stick with the people we love through the hardest of times.
Jillian:
I think you nailed it. It's almost impossible for our loved ones to comprehend exactly what we're dealing with deep inside us.
Quote from: Tessa James on December 06, 2013, 01:08:27 PM
That "image" in your head says a lot about you Particle and may be the core of your identity concerns. One thing I am learning with my transition is that I really do not know when and how this will turn out. For me the biggest change came with self acceptance.
Tessa:
I agree 100%. For me, self acceptance is a major major thing. I know who I am in my heart and my mind, but yet, a small part of me is saying - "WTF are you thinking?". That's the part that backs me into the dark corner and puts me in self destruct mode. That's the part that I'm fighting against now. This is the after effect of 50 years of denial. It's not as simple as just flipping a light switch and un-doing all of that denial. I just discussed this with my GT yesterday. I'm working very hard at trying to stay positive because I was possibly the world's most negative person. Change is a process. I'm going to be ok.
Loathe(self);
Quote from: particle on December 10, 2013, 10:46:05 AM
I have been feeling a strong desire to feminize my body and live as a woman. This feeling has been developing over the past year or so, and has been getting worse. I know this is upsetting to you so even when I've talked about this to you, I've lied. The urge I feel is to become as much of a woman as I can, barring genital surgery.
Thanks.
It was bothering me that no one challenged you on why you can't "remain a man" per the title.
A year ago you started having intense feelings to be a woman, and never before you had these feelings ? Did something happen a year ago?
If I read that letter, well I did, I would be critical too. Out of the blue you start having these thoughts of wanting to be a woman?
Quote from: particle on December 10, 2013, 10:46:05 AM
Dear -----,
I'm not about to do anything drastic. I'm going to try to calm down, and find a new therapist I'll be more comfortable talking to about this. I just want to keep you informed.
I like your letter Particle, I could almost give the same one to my wife. If you can never send it, perhaps it would be easier to send her the last paragraph as a start?
Quote from: genderhell on December 10, 2013, 01:53:52 PM
A year ago you started having intense feelings to be a woman, and never before you had these feelings ?
This letter omits some background.
I've have a strong fetish for thinking of myself as a woman. I have since I was a teenager. I've dabbled on cross dressing, and considered transitioning when I was like 19. I fell in love and got married instead. She knows about the cross dressing
Quote from: Paige on December 10, 2013, 01:57:08 PM
perhaps it would be easier to send her the last paragraph as a start?
That's where our horrible argconverumentsation ended.
Quote from: genderhell on December 10, 2013, 01:53:52 PM
Did something happen a year ago?
Well, it was about six months into a strength training program where I grew visibl traps and deltoid for the first time in my wife. I also went into a massive depression, got arrested...