Hey all,
So I usually post things about how to get to the point of passing and around that topic. I'd rather avoid my internal drama in this thread because I'm in a conflicted state at the moment and not feeling the best about my body and appearance. I don't want to focus on that. What I wanted to do in this thread was ask those that don't pass how they handle NOT passing or being known as trans to almost everyone around you. I want to hear from those of you who are outed a lot or just openly trans. Those who are clocked frequently, if that makes sense. I'm afraid that's something I'll have to come to terms with, so I really want to hear from people like this. Can you share how you feel overall. Your hardships, struggles, successes, failures, emotional status, etc? Was transitioning really worth it without passing privilege and do you really feel like life is better for you overall? And how did you overcome that early fear of always being seen as trans or a "guy"? How did you make a life for yourself under these conditions.
For all the stories we hear about passing or the ability to pass, we don't hear enough from those that don't. I really would like to hear your story and maybe it will help others too afraid to start their life. Thank you! :)
Having just transitioned in a fairly public way (stayed at my job, know/knew a lot of people) I doubt I'll ever be stealth for as long as I remain in that job/industry. It's only early days yet so I can't really answer your question. I'm kind of interested to see how it plays out myself. Personally I'm hoping it won't be an issue, for the moment I am being treated as a female member of staff.
How can I possibly still be awake. Still, I have to respond to this.
Hon, I don't pass. Ever. My nails pop out from my fingertips over a half an inch. Half of the time I use mascara, and I look like a NFL linebacker. Every day the best look I get is that I am gay. This is wonderful for me. The " God, why doesn't this freak just stay home." Look hurts. I don't judge their giant truck and 5' stature. The fact that they haven't seen their toes in a decade because of their belly. Their eighties hair style thirty years too late. Yet they look like I am what is wrong with the planet. I don't try to flaunt my my differences, but I DARE them to make an issue out of it. I am like... Go ahead, push me pal, I will cry on you in a heartbeat.
Truth is, I just don't care. I haven't worn a skirt yet, I don't have one. Every thing I have is fair game. I did not ask to be who I am, and I will be damned before I ask permission.
I am terrified, and it hurts. End of story. What is left for me though.
gosh, this is one of the most fiery subjects of the whole transitioning thing. And yes, people suffer, sometimes they suffer so much that living becomes unbearable.
Even though I should consider my self utmost privileged, I still carry the disphoric gene, I still question peoples whispers, their inquisitive looks even though they always turn out false alarms.
As with my story I set out on this journey without visible possibility for where I am now, but also, when I started, I knew that if I didn't get to the absolute of being viewed as a woman I would simply pick up the pill jar an do it again.
Maybe that unwavering need was my force behind the drive.
There are those who can not achieve this realm, and I know from my own perspective, behind all the posturings, all in the attitude remarks, who cares statements, stands pain, so immense and so regretful, that I hope the world will change its attitude towards different, but as well, I know how raw and harsh others opinions are when they them selves do not realize how much their simple words of dismay cut into someones vulnerable heart.
But there are more of them, so that makes them "right". ::)
But you have your rights and freedom to do anything you want/be. Don't GAS what other people think (but be armed/ready to defend yourself).
Hmm... well, I don't exactly pass 100%, so I guess I'm qualified to answer this. I've been thinking a lot about this myself, as the reality continues to set in that I will probably need at least a few cosmetic procedures done to pass as well as I'd like to. But you know, I really have it easy compared to most. I live in a state that is reasonably tolerant of transgender people, and I've never been treated poorly by anyone that I'm aware of because I was transgender. I haven't had to deal with the whole transitioning on the job thing either, which I know can be difficult for some people. Other that having to deal with the knowledge that people will probably view me as transgender, and some issues with my family, I haven't experienced many of the hardships of transitioning.
All I really do is just take things day by day and work to improve my situation. That's all you can do really. Even if I can't pass at the moment, there are always goals I can work toward that may allow me to pass better in the future. And even if I never get to the point of passing 100%, I wouldn't have any regrets. I was not happy before I started to transition, and I may not always be happy now, but it's still a big improvement. Besides, if I was going to detransition, what would I do? Stop hormone therapy? That's just not going to happen. Doing so would pretty much destroy me mentally. Stop using a feminine voice? No way! I think I sound much better now, and I can pass more often on the phone than I can in person. Cut my hair short? Not a chance. I've wanted to have long hair my whole life, and even if I wanted to be identified as male, men have long hair too sometimes, so there's no reason for me to cut it. The list goes on, but you get the point. ;)
First and foremost, I made the decision to transition so I would feel better about myself. Because all of the things I've done in order to transition have made me feel better about myself, there's nothing I'd want to give up or quit doing, no matter how difficult it was to deal with not passing. Even if I was going to continue identifying as male for the rest of my life, I'd still want to be the most girly male I could possibly be. :D But hey, that's just me.
Edit: ...and I just saw your pictures in the "Could I pass?" thread. Seriously, you're doing fine. Looking the way you do now, I really think you have nothing to worry about. Absolute worst case scenario, you might need to pay for a few cosmetic procedures if you still aren't happy with how you look after you've been on hormones for a while longer. But in the long run I just don't think you have anything to worry about. For now I would just keep working on things like your voice and mannerism, because that might go a long way to defeating the whole androgynous appearance problem.
I'm glad you're asking the question LTL :).
I won't answer the not passing thing, because to some extent, I do. But certainly many know me as trans as I transitioned in my old workplace. How did that impact relationships or the way I was treated? Well, the visible transition was really a non issue. People used the right name and pronouns 99% of the time, and I was treated as just another woman.
I was expecting much worse.
It just seems that most people are fine to go along so long as you're putting in the effort. I mean, you don't go from Jack to Jill without many other visual, behavioral and speech changes. That is not to say they understand it... they don't.
But there are those who are so toxic and mean who can't help but have a problem. I did have one such rather negative experience at my last workplace. Two bullies took a disliked to me ( guess why ) and were trying to make my professional life hell. Sadly, it was two levels of management. Why is it always the trash of society that make it into management roles? All of my colleagues were fantastic though. I could have fought, and technically won, but the stress wasn't worth it. And I would ultimately have ended up losing more than I'd have gained.
I look at it this way. There are 7.2 billion people in the world all with different opinions, and you are only one of them. What matters most is how you feel about yourself. One of the lessons in life I learned a long time ago was you are not going to please everyone. Just being yourself is what really counts. Of course you avoid putting your self is situations where things could get sticky, such as I wouldn't walk into a redneck bar presenting as female. Then again, if I knew I was safe, I might do it for shock value.. ;D ;D ;D
While yes I do have concerns about the whole pass / fail thing, I have to step back and ask myself is it really that important? After all I am not doing this for someone else, I am doing this for my sanity and being who I really am. Then things seem to fall into place in my head. Bottom line is were not the only one with issues about self confidence. There are many out there with disabilities and or bodies they don't like not having to do with being transgender that have the same issues. You can't please everyone, so as long as you are happy with you, does it really matter?
Thanks everyone that has responded so far. It is appreciated. Like I said, I want to hear from those with life experience in this realm. For all the fears I have about not passing, I haven't read many testimonials in this department to know what their life is like overall. Who am I to judge the non-passing life without really knowing what it's like? Even if this is not what I want, maybe I'm putting too much priority on passing which may just be an untrue ideal that I've made the most important thing in life. Like a do or die thing. I think it would be healthy for me to get a balanced view here and that would probably help others as well. Thank you for sharing your stories, I look foward to hearing more.
Well I think that for most m2f, even those who do pass really well there will still be times when they get read by someone somehow for some reason. Doubtless there are those who are 100% passable, good luck to them, but for the rest of us we just have to make do with what we've got. Yes, I have relatively natural feminine features, but I'm 6'3", wear a wig due to considerable MPB, and have a "husky" voice. Sometimes I'm amazed I'm not read the minute I walk out the door, maybe some people wonder, some people might even realise but if they do they've said nothing. So do I pass? Presumably, but I still can't believe some people haven't worked it out eventually. But I can't let it consume me, otherwise I wouldn't get to enjoy what I really want out of all this...and that's to live and enjoy my life as a woman.
I don't pass I'm 6'1 and a half,240 lb,big hands,big feet and sound like Lemmy.It's about confidence and not giving a rat's ass what others think,I've worked with the public for 14 years and 99% are OK with me.In my town there's an unpassable trans woman,she's overweight,has a gruff voice from smoking and has thin greying hair.She lives in a war zone and drives a ratty £120 old Ford with odd coloured doors.She's had the same boyfriend for 6 years and is the cheeriest happiest person I know,never without a smile or cheery greeting.People love her,passing is great but it's not everything,being un passable doesn't mean you shouldn't transition
Well I don't want to say I do or do not pass because I don't pass I live. Do people know I'm trans yes some do some don't I'm fine with it that's life. I don't think anybody can say they pass for sure because that would be implying they really know what another person is thinking. I'll be honest the trans community puts way too much emphasis on passing. It's way more important to be yourself and know yourself then it is to have someone see you as a male or a female.
My transition was very public, in a relatively small community. All my friends watched my transition. I honestly don't know if I pass or not among people who don't know me, because the treat me with the same courtesy, and respect due any woman. What more could I ask for?
As for friends and neighbors who have watched me change... I just told them 'I'm done now, call me Paula'. Most of them had only positive comments, and aside from a few accidental misgenderings, life just carried on.
I started fulltime when I went into therapy to show my therapist I was serious about it, best decision ever.
Quote from: Heather on April 26, 2014, 10:00:35 AM
Well I don't want to say I do or do not pass because I don't pass I live. Do people know I'm trans yes some do some don't I'm fine with it that's life. I don't think anybody can say they pass for sure because that would be implying they really know what another person is thinking. I'll be honest the trans community puts way too much emphasis on passing. It's way more important to be yourself and know yourself then it is to have someone see you as a male or a female.
I think that's a healthy perspective. I was talking to my therapist today, and I realize I put everything on hold until I can present the right way. Even doing things like volunteering at a soup kitchen, which is something I plan on doing frequently in the near future, I refuse to do at this moment because I'm still a "boy". And if I want to do charity in the future, I want everyone to meet me as a girl rather than a boy so I don't have to come out. How weird is that? I have so much that I want to experience, to do or give, and live that I just keep as a dream because I refuse to experience life anymore until I live as female. While I'm getting closer to that point, it's ridicoulous I shut my life out because of my passing status. The only thing I really do is work, and now I'm unemployed again, though that's likely just a temp thing and I'll probably be back after the appeal. I just want to live life, have fun, try new things, and give back to the world. And rather than staying at home writing poetry on this Saturday, I would like to go on a date and meet new people. Be a normal girl in this world. But my life is tied to my appearance. If I don't pass, I don't feel comfortable being myself cause I'm sick of having to be a guy. It's like a curse and a trap. And if I have to lie to the world about who I am, I don't even want to be in it and rather shut myself out. That's why passing is important because I want to be able to be myself without feeling so much fear, anxiety and discomfort everywhere I go. I don't know.
Those of you who are free with your appearance and can live life regardless of appearances are awesome. Seriously, be proud of yourselves for having that courage. I wish I could be the same way. However, passing is important to me, and I feel compelled to put my life on hold until I get to that point. Good thing is it's getting very close. In any case, that's why I think it's unhealthy to focus too much on passing. It hurts you in the end if you make it everything like I had. this is sort of my warning to those starting out. Don't let it consume you and don't be like LTL.
Thanks everyone for your feedback. I'm doing some important introspection that I've needed to do. Thanks.
Quite an important question that you've asked was, if you get clocked, do you regret transitioning? the answer is no. When you get clocked, yes, it is depressing, it is quite debilitating, but it actually makes you wanna push forward I noticed. You can actually take a lesson out of it, learn what needs to be worked on and at the end of the day I think you're quite fortunate to live in a city where even when clocked, nothing's gonna happen. I'm in the same position, I am fortunate enough to live in a country and among people who won't (I presume) do anything more other than the occasional gossiping behind my back etc. Goodluck!
While I am fairly sure I don't really pass, I cannot say I've received any negative comments during my time in rural WV/MD. I have received a few waaay too long glances from women and late teen / early twenty girls that made be feel uncomfortable. I know it is easy to say this, and I lived how hard it is to do, yet attitude counts a lot. I can only assume the worse as to why the stares. My fears paralyze me too much as it is. I will not allow my fears ruin the joy I feel when I am out in the real world being the real me, So I just smile and keep on going.
They think you're sexy and want you to have their babies. :laugh:
Quote from: learningtolive on April 26, 2014, 06:00:21 AM
Hey all,
So I usually post things about how to get to the point of passing and around that topic. I'd rather avoid my internal drama in this thread because I'm in a conflicted state at the moment and not feeling the best about my body and appearance. I don't want to focus on that. What I wanted to do in this thread was ask those that don't pass how they handle NOT passing or being known as trans to almost everyone around you. I want to hear from those of you who are outed a lot or just openly trans. Those who are clocked frequently, if that makes sense. I'm afraid that's something I'll have to come to terms with, so I really want to hear from people like this. Can you share how you feel overall. Your hardships, struggles, successes, failures, emotional status, etc? Was transitioning really worth it without passing privilege and do you really feel like life is better for you overall? And how did you overcome that early fear of always being seen as trans or a "guy"? How did you make a life for yourself under these conditions.
For all the stories we hear about passing or the ability to pass, we don't hear enough from those that don't. I really would like to hear your story and maybe it will help others too afraid to start their life. Thank you! :)
I'm full time pre-hrt, I get clocked all the time. It doesn't matter to me to much. True story, if there were a pill to make me a cisgender female I wouldn't take it. I am proud to be trans. At the end of it all, after HRT, SRS, FFS, etc. al. we will always be transwomen and you know what? That's cool, we are very special and beautiful creatures in our own right.
How do I handle being clocked? I kill them with kindness, I kill them with femininity, I kill them with a warm smile. Even the hardest heart can be softened by a good dose of kindness and a warm smile.
I am who I am, I (finally) like who I am, and unlike most of the people in the world, I'm honest about who and what I am and most of my flaws are visible on the outside.
That is something to be proud about. That is something to be confident about. That is being a woman.
-AM
Quote from: learningtolive on April 26, 2014, 06:00:21 AM
Hey all,
So I usually post things about how to get to the point of passing and around that topic. I'd rather avoid my internal drama in this thread because I'm in a conflicted state at the moment and not feeling the best about my body and appearance. I don't want to focus on that. What I wanted to do in this thread was ask those that don't pass how they handle NOT passing or being known as trans to almost everyone around you. I want to hear from those of you who are outed a lot or just openly trans. Those who are clocked frequently, if that makes sense. I'm afraid that's something I'll have to come to terms with, so I really want to hear from people like this. Can you share how you feel overall. Your hardships, struggles, successes, failures, emotional status, etc? Was transitioning really worth it without passing privilege and do you really feel like life is better for you overall? And how did you overcome that early fear of always being seen as trans or a "guy"? How did you make a life for yourself under these conditions.
For all the stories we hear about passing or the ability to pass, we don't hear enough from those that don't. I really would like to hear your story and maybe it will help others too afraid to start their life. Thank you! :)
I will share what you wish to know from my life. This is for not just you TLT but anyone who needs a push in the right direction. A fair warning, some of the stuff I write "might" trigger something (Hopefully good vs. bad) and this post may be long but please read it.
Ok so while I "can" pass as a woman (Appearance wise) the moment I speak I've noticed people usually call me a guy but before hand they might have thought me to be a girl. (I can't speak for all of them but from all my time in the woman's restroom and out and about I'd say I passed till I spoke) However, even when I speak I sometimes am called the correct pronouns and such. This is even more so the case if I have a skirt or dress on or even make up on and even my purse with me. Now, I don't wear a wig and have been growing my hair out and also I am not on HRT yet. (Wish I was though) I also don't really understand/know what all are the habits/characteristics of what a "typical" male and a "typical" female does/acts. (I know some but not the really little ones nor do I notice them, case in point, when people say they realize they're moving their body in a more feminine way) So I really can't comment on that however, I said "typical" because there are PLENTY of guys who are feminine and show it (Such as crying, being sensitive etc. etc.) and same with girls who act tough, play rough and in the mud and are into sports, less sensitive/emotional and so on etc. etc. so I try not to worry TOO MUCH about that part of the transition process.
Now, I honestly don't know how truly well I pass but I've been lucky that there has been few incidents of violence (Verbal/physical and no physical so far for me), and people not being respectful to me. The majority of ones who aren't respectful to me and still treat me like a male are A) Family and B) Those who I work with. Although at least at work they call me by my preferred female only name but they still call me a guy while the rest call me by my preferred name only and take a gender neutral stance. (To be fair, this might be thanks to how management told them one thing, then told them another thing but the latter should have told them what they ARE supposed to be doing) I will have to get into contact with the HR department again on this matter. (again) So anyway, at work the problem with my appearance is really hard to pass as female. My voice is bad enough but sadly I have to wear a hair net, thus I look WAY less feminine. (Next to 0) So that makes it harder for others to know I'm a woman.
So, people who know me probably think I'm trans or just weird. Still I am treated nicely and I enjoy my work including the environment, until I get misgendered or the occasion called by my old name/sir. -_- When that happens whether at work or anywhere including out and about, it hurts me, it depresses me and I've had a few, mainly just two incidents which really hurt me big time. The first is when I finally started full time, I got misgendered while trying to get my ears pierced (Didn't happen btw) and thought I didn't pass. I just wanted to go home and get the clothes off me and revert back but couldn't and I'm glad I didn't and I pushed forward. I ended up getting ma'am'd at the end of the day so it made it better for me. The 2nd incident happened recently (A month ago) where I was in the woman's restroom (About my 10th trip in that one) when one of the employees said to another woman in there who I think also worked there "That's a boy." She said it twice and I just pretended as if I didn't hear them but I knew they were talking about me as it was only the 3 of us and the woman who was told this was surprised to hear that and looked at me on our way out while trying to hide the fact she was looking at me. (A look of concerned/confused from what I could tell) Mins later I heard someone on the announcement ask someone to come to the restroom. I believe it was a higher up for the incident involving me but that's just speculation. Ever since then, I've avoided using that restroom and going near that employee. (I can't remember the other employee's appearance sadly) Does it hurt? YES! Does it make me want to detransition? Only at first but I know doing so would A) Be giving up/the end of me and B) Be letting them win and so I'll not let them win. I'll PROVE THEM ALL wrong and so help me, I won't detransition EVER! Oh and also, for the 2nd incident yes it depressed the crap out of me and ruined my exp. which should have been en enjoyable one, so much so suicidal thoughts happened and I had to burry myself in games and anime to drown it out and pass the time which later I felt much better.
So is transitioning worth it? YES! Even though I am hurt when misgendered I am being myself however, if it happened all the time where I was misgendered I know me being out and about would only hurt me but likewise me not being myself would also hurt me. As to which would hurt me more in such a situation? I can't say, and I don't want to ever know. The reason WHY we put so much emphasis on passing is because if we don't pass, we fear people will hurt/kill us, our lives will be ruined and that we won't be treated kindly/respectfully and as our correct gender. Being able to pass IS a big deal and and for those who don't understand why, try pictureing going out as yourself but now you don't pass and imagine bad stuff happening/people misgendering you and you'll see why it's a big deal. That said, a few pieces of wisdom/advice for those who aren't out yet.
1. Be yourself! You don't have to go full time, take baby steps, work your way up.
2. You'll never know how well you pass or not unless you get as much advice as you can on how to pass and apply that to yourself and then going out there as your true self and try to pass.
3. Don't think 1 or even 2 times out as yourself is a good enough indication that you do or don't pass. It takes 3 or more to get a good feel and I mean at least 1 or more hrs out as yourself each time.
4. It's all in our heads. This is true for the most part. Sure it's true some things might happen which isn't good but typically most people REALLY don't care and will go about their business just like you do yours. This also means if odd reactions come u while you're out as yourself, it doesn't mean it involves you or because you're trans. I should know because I worried so much that I couldn't pass and it eat away at me for so long till I couldn't take it anymore and just slowly went out as myself. It was very hard, nerve racking and embarrassing in some cases (Women's restroom anyone? 8) ) but I pushed forward and am glad I did, even though I still have a long ways to go.
5. When you come out and go full time, it REALLY DOES lift many weights off of you. You wouldn't believe how much better you'll feel. That said, for those who don't pass at all I do believe it'll lift some weights off of you, just not as many as those who can pass. (I can pass but also can't at times so I should know)
I think I'm forgetting something but I hope this help you LTL and anyone else too. Really, try not to worry about it too much and just be yourself, one step at a time. :)
EDIT: Ok, so, also to add yes even though I'm out full time, it still isn't easy for me. I tend to avoid speaking (Due to the male voice), keep to myself and don't socialize too much. The majority of my interaction with people is at work. So yes, I enjoy being out as myself but still have my fears and worries here and there and on different things. And that, is what I forgot to say.
Oh and LTL, PM me if you have any questions you'd like to ask me or just want to talk about anything.
it can suck lol I'm pre hrt too, so most the time I just get read as butch lesbian -.-, have nothing against lesbians but I don't feel like one, it sucks, especially when things give you away, I have ass and hips sadly and my voice isn't deep due to being pre T, but its whatever, I make that wincing face and just keep on plowing through, patience is a virtue with being transgender, everything happens in time
First, LTL, you need to do it and see what it is like. Different people pass better or worse than others.
At first, I tried to be with friends or in groups. Eventually, I learned most people do not seem to care if they notice, and those that do were raised to be nice so they tend to just give a sour face. The more I worry, the more people seem to notice.
I do not pass 100% and even if I ever do, I doubt I will ever try to be completely stealth. I am trans. I am proud of that.
Honestly, I'm starting to not really care so long as I'm not in a dangerous situation.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 26, 2014, 06:00:21 AM
Hey all,
So I usually post things about how to get to the point of passing and around that topic. I'd rather avoid my internal drama in this thread because I'm in a conflicted state at the moment and not feeling the best about my body and appearance. I don't want to focus on that. What I wanted to do in this thread was ask those that don't pass how they handle NOT passing or being known as trans to almost everyone around you. I want to hear from those of you who are outed a lot or just openly trans. Those who are clocked frequently, if that makes sense. I'm afraid that's something I'll have to come to terms with, so I really want to hear from people like this. Can you share how you feel overall. Your hardships, struggles, successes, failures, emotional status, etc? Was transitioning really worth it without passing privilege and do you really feel like life is better for you overall? And how did you overcome that early fear of always being seen as trans or a "guy"? How did you make a life for yourself under these conditions.
For all the stories we hear about passing or the ability to pass, we don't hear enough from those that don't. I really would like to hear your story and maybe it will help others too afraid to start their life. Thank you! :)
Eight months ago, I felt much the same way. I was terrified of my own shadow and wouldn't leave the house without spending two hours on makeup and styling my hair. I would have an anxiety attack if anyone came within 50 feet of me in public...
Then one day about six months ago I stopped caring about passing and just tried to be comfortable being me.
I have no rhyme or reason to it, no a-ha moment. It just happened. It may have been some advice I heard in a support group...
You start to pass when you stop worrying about passing.I think people pick up on the fear, anxiety, and discomfort more than they do physical appearance. My worrying about being clocked and not passing was a far bigger clue to others than my broad shoulders, deep voice, and five o'clock shadow peaking through my makeup in the evening were. Let's be honest, most people are so self absorbed and oblivious to the world around them that they wouldn't notice another human being if that human being were on fire.
When I stopped worrying about passing, I started passing. If I'm not passing at least I am confident enough in myself that those around me realize that I am attempting to present as a female and are polite enough to acknowledge and treat me as a woman.
Thank you everyone. I really do appreciate your thoughts.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 26, 2014, 12:07:08 PM
I think that's a healthy perspective. I was talking to my therapist today, and I realize I put everything on hold until I can present the right way. Even doing things like volunteering at a soup kitchen, which is something I plan on doing frequently in the near future, I refuse to do at this moment because I'm still a "boy". And if I want to do charity in the future, I want everyone to meet me as a girl rather than a boy so I don't have to come out. How weird is that? I have so much that I want to experience, to do or give, and live that I just keep as a dream because I refuse to experience life anymore until I live as female. While I'm getting closer to that point, it's ridicoulous I shut my life out because of my passing status. The only thing I really do is work, and now I'm unemployed again, though that's likely just a temp thing and I'll probably be back after the appeal. I just want to live life, have fun, try new things, and give back to the world. And rather than staying at home writing poetry on this Saturday, I would like to go on a date and meet new people. Be a normal girl in this world. But my life is tied to my appearance. If I don't pass, I don't feel comfortable being myself cause I'm sick of having to be a guy. It's like a curse and a trap. And if I have to lie to the world about who I am, I don't even want to be in it and rather shut myself out. That's why passing is important because I want to be able to be myself without feeling so much fear, anxiety and discomfort everywhere I go. I don't know.
Those of you who are free with your appearance and can live life regardless of appearances are awesome. Seriously, be proud of yourselves for having that courage. I wish I could be the same way. However, passing is important to me, and I feel compelled to put my life on hold until I get to that point. Good thing is it's getting very close. In any case, that's why I think it's unhealthy to focus too much on passing. It hurts you in the end if you make it everything like I had. this is sort of my warning to those starting out. Don't let it consume you and don't be like LTL.
Thanks everyone for your feedback. I'm doing some important introspection that I've needed to do. Thanks.
Looking back at my last post in this thread, I really noticed how sad and empty I really sound. And it's true, I feel very empty and need to make lifestyle changes other than transitioning. The more I think about it, as much as I want to transition and doing this is needed, I think I'm ignoring my general issues with depression and anxiety that need to be addressed. This isn't just about dysphoria, but the desire to have meaning in my life. Even fully transitioning doesn't guarantee that things will be amazing. I mean I'll be happy to pass and look female, but I wouldn't be happy if I had no meaning to my life. Getting all dressed up with nowhere to go isn't my dream (which is really what I'm doing now). I am a girl and want to live as and look like one, but I want a life too and would miserable if my lifestyle wasn't to change as well. Right now, I really don't have much of a life and that makes me a bit unique. Other people only had dysphoria. Many still had meaning and a life in general. I don't and that's what I want. For me, dysphoria is only part of the equation. Right now I'm at a cross roads. Try all the things I want to experience to fill some of the void, but should I do it as as a fake boy before I pass? Not possible for me as I can't be a boy anymore. I can't keep doing this to myself. Yet if I keep waiting until I pass, I will feel empty with my life while I'm waiting. There is a reason I'm miserable and that's my own fault. Maybe I should just take an antidepressant like my therapist suggests. I don;t know.
Thanks everyone for your input. You've given me much to think about and it's really seeping in. Maybe I'm just breaking down.
Quote from: Heather on April 26, 2014, 10:00:35 AM
Well I don't want to say I do or do not pass because I don't pass I live.
This went straight to my dome. Heather, are you a motivational speaker/writer and you just haven't told us? :)
Quote from: TiffanyT on April 26, 2014, 03:26:31 PM
Honestly, I'm starting to not really care so long as I'm not in a dangerous situation.
This is how I've always felt. And when I didn't pass at all (unless it was a dark room at night) I just avoided dangerous situations- which I do anyway by default. I've always been out to everyone in my life, even people I don't know so well.
As time went on I did become more passable, but I have a large group of friends and everyone has seen my transition.. so I'll never be stealth and I don't care at all. There is no sense in trying to hide any part of who I am to anyone anyway (unless it could mean danger of course). There is so much more to life than the way one looks.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 26, 2014, 04:48:32 PM
Thank you everyone. I really do appreciate your thoughts.
Looking back at my last post in this thread, I really noticed how sad and empty I really sound. And it's true, I feel very empty and need to make lifestyle changes other than transitioning. The more I think about it, as much as I want to transition and doing this is needed, I think I'm ignoring my general issues with depression and anxiety that need to be addressed. This isn't just about dysphoria, but the desire to have meaning in my life. Even fully transitioning doesn't guarantee that things will be amazing. I mean I'll be happy to pass and look female, but I wouldn't be happy if I had no meaning to my life. Getting all dressed up with nowhere to go isn't my dream (which is really what I'm doing now). I am a girl and want to live as and look like one, but I want a life too and would miserable if my lifestyle wasn't to change as well. Right now, I really don't have much of a life and that makes me a bit unique. Other people only had dysphoria. Many still had meaning and a life in general. I don't and that's what I want. For me, dysphoria is only part of the equation. Right now I'm at a cross roads. Try all the things I want to experience to fill some of the void, but should I do it as as a fake boy before I pass? Not possible for me as I can't be a boy anymore. I can't keep doing this to myself. Yet if I keep waiting until I pass, I will feel empty with my life while I'm waiting. There is a reason I'm miserable and that's my own fault. Maybe I should just take an antidepressant like my therapist suggests. I don;t know.
Thanks everyone for your input. You've given me much to think about and it's really seeping in. Maybe I'm just breaking down.
LTL, I wouldn't worry about it or dwell on it too much. That can turn into a dicey situation where you feel backed up or trapped. Maybe it is okay to admit that right now your meaning in life is becoming yourself as you feel others are supposed to see you? Transition is a very life-encompassing kind of thing. It wasn't until I had been full time for almost a year before I was able to relax and rethink my life goals. Sometimes, you just have to do you. There's nothing wrong with that.
If you feel a block, then it is either time to look for a second kind of approach or to buckle down with determination. I am sure you will do what is right for you, and I think bouncing ideas like this around is the perfect way to figure it out. It is also what we are here for :)
Thanks Jenny,
I just feel very empty in life right now. I don't know how to explain it, but I don't like feeling void of meaning or any substance. However, I don't let myself do anything that I'd like to do in life or fill that gap, all because I don't pass and I refuse to try things as a guy. I'm just done being a guy, yet I'm not ready or passing enough to be a girl. So how do I close this meaning gap and loneliness that I feel? I have no idea. Truthfully, my life is very empty, but I've been waiting to pass and live as female before trying to fill it with any meaning or substance that I want. Ignored me, I'm just being emotional tonight.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 26, 2014, 05:18:49 PM
So how do I close this meaning gap and loneliness that I feel? I have no idea. Truthfully, my life is very empty, but I've been waiting to pass and live as female before trying to fill it with any meaning or substance that I want. Ignored me, I'm just being emotional tonight.
Don't worry about it, and sorry I'm not going to ignore you ;) (not sorry)
Everyone has a different process for solving problems of all kinds, but one thing remains true for everyone- one step at a time! Whether you would like to come from the practiced standpoint (building up your confidence in private) or the experiential version (learning by doing), they are both solid ways to go about it. If you're feeling depressed or over/underwhelmed, maybe it's time for a change of pace? A step outside of the comfort zone?
Thanks Jenny. I want to apologize to everyone. I'm just very emotional at the moment and was crying about stuff. It's just getting harder rather than easier with my transition. I was hoping to have already been living my life at a girl at this point, but I'm still not doing that because I don't pass and would look like a fool. If I'm seen as a guy, I don't feel comfortable trying to pass and live like a girl. I guess I'm tired of hiding myself and avoiding other people. For all the transition stuff I've been doing, I haven't gotten out much and start creating my life as female. And I don't know, but I'm feeling a bit loney and fragile tonight. I mean it's a saturday night. I should be out doing something or on a date. Not avoiding other people because I feel I look like a freak. That only makes me feel lonely. But I don't know how to get passed all of this without having the ability to pass or be taken seriously as a girl.
Quote from: Jennygirl on April 26, 2014, 05:02:12 PM
This went straight to my dome. Heather, are you a motivational speaker/writer and you just haven't told us? :)
Lol no Jenny I'm not I'm just a woman who realized in order to be happy I had to stop worrying how others viewed me. And started worrying about how I view myself. If you concentrate to much on passing it can make your life quite miserable and make you nit pick every little feature. That's why I just live and don't worry about passing so much.
LTL, what you are talking about going through mirrors so much of my first attempt at transition it's uncanny. Admittedly it's also a bit scary for me to be faced with that, part of me wants to grab you and shake you until you realise passability is within your reach if you can believe it - but only because that's exactly what I'd do to 25 year old me if I ever got the chance. I'd also hug young me, take young me clothes shopping, show young me some passing tips and get me pull my head out of my @$$, stop living in fear and start living my life as a woman. Of course I wouldn't be so blunt with you...although I'd love to go shopping with you! :)
We all have to get where we're going at our own speed and I think you are being eminently sensible, you need to do what is right and safe for you. My concern is that the overtly cautious approach is also making you feel pretty damn miserable, something young me also put myself through because of fear rather than prudence. The number of times I spent crying myself to sleep and feeling lonely, it wasn't fun but was largely self inflicted. I know you say you have no intention of bailing on your transition, great, I just hope you don't get to the other side, realise some of the fear was for naught, wonder why you waited so long and give yourself a hard time about it...something older me has been dealing with.
I hope this doesn't seem harsh, i want to see you happy and I just sense we're both pretty good at beating ourselves up about our actions or lack thereof. Sometimes having inner strength, being spontaneous, taking the leap of faith is so much better than overthinking everything. Something else I would also love to tell young me. :)
By the way everyone, I want to apologize. I don't like to get teary and emotional, but I'm just sort of at a loss as to how to get over this. I just want to finally be happy and actually live and be a 25 year old girl rather than dreaming or fantasizing that I am (I mean yeah I am but only on the inside). Still I shouldn't be crying all over this forum and let my depression out like I do. I try to be a positive aspect of this forum, but my own negativity and drama always comes to surface. I'm sorry everyone.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 26, 2014, 06:16:31 PM
By the way everyone, I want to apologize. I don't like to get teary and emotional, but I'm just sort of at a loss as to how to get over this. I just want to finally be happy and actually live and be a 25 year old girl rather than dreaming or fantasizing that I am (I mean yeah I am but only on the inside). Still I shouldn't be crying all over this forum and let my depression out like I do. I try to be a positive aspect of this forum, but my own negativity and drama always comes to surface. I'm sorry everyone.
You don't need to apologize for getting emotional I'm on hrt too I understand. The truth is all we can do is show you the door your the one who has to walk through it. I believe in you I think you have more potential than you realize and you can get past this hurdle. :)
Quote from: Heather on April 26, 2014, 06:22:37 PM
You don't need to apologize for getting emotional I'm on hrt too I understand. The truth is all we can do is show you the door your the one who has to walk through it. I believe in you I think you have more potential than you realize and you can get past this hurdle. :)
Thank you Heather. I just don't like bringing everyone else down with me. I just can't help it and I start crying and feeling empty. I just can't wait for gender to be background noise. To be just be a girl and that's it. Then I could focus on my life and trying to fill it with some meaning. I'm just really uncertain how to get myself through that door. And all the tears I shed or fantasizing about the life that could be isn't doing me much good. It's getting to the point where it needs to become real. but again, I am sorry. I really try to be positive and helpful here, but I drag everyone down with me.
Maybe talk to your endo about your dosage or delivery method. I know I was a bit of an emotional wreck back in the early 1990s - some of that was just me but I'm pretty sure some of it could be sheeted home to my HRT. My current endo has confirmed as much. I was on orals and injections (primogen depot, can't remember how frequently) and wow, what a roller coaster. To be honest, repeating that experience was a fear I had going into transition again but this time it's different orals and a sub dermal E pellet and I feel remarkably calm most of the time. If you feel your emotional state seems overly erratic it's possible getting the endo to tweak the treatment might help. Just a thought.
Quote from: Heather on April 26, 2014, 06:22:37 PM
You don't need to apologize for getting emotional I'm on hrt too I understand. The truth is all we can do is show you the door your the one who has to walk through it. I believe in you I think you have more potential than you realize and you can get past this hurdle. :)
Agreed. :)
It's not the hrt. I've always been a very very emotional person. It's just who I am. I'm the sort of girl that will cry over a commercial and stuff. Even one of my sister would always remark that I'm emotional like a girl, lol, and she even stated that as one of the reaons she wasn't surprised. In any case, I do think I shoud consider an anti-depressant medication. I think I need it, but I don't want to lose my emotions. Even if I don't like feeling a lot of the times, it's what makes me the person I am. It's why I can easily sympathize and empathize with others. It's something that's important to me even if it's too intense at times. Yeah, I'm crazy, I know, but that' a part of me.
Besides it took me a while to get the right dose. I'm not going to a lesser one because it's taken forever for me to get effects. And I can't change the method as oral is the only way for me to go.
I'll be okay. I just need to get some rest and stop crying a bit over my drama.
You're not dragging everyone down sweetie. Being on the other side and not really having to worry about passing - I can only offer this: transition does not make you happy.
Passing does not make you happy. Even being a pretty, young woman who can get any guy she wants does not make you happy.
Transition only eases some of the pain. Passing does probably make life easier in some respects. Being a pretty young female is its own curse. None of this will make you happy. It may ease some pain. But you will still be you with all the baggage from your former life.
I thought transition would make me happy. It didn't. It just removed the dysphoria. But underneath that, I was still the same me with all the grief and baggage. I hope you are luckier than me and it doesn't take 7 odd years post-transition to finally start to heal. Start now and maybe transition won't be this to you as it is to me (Okay, I admit I just wanted an excuse to play this song but still):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H78hVZ7Jcjo
I was around your age when I started this journey. If you are empty and unhappy, you still will be afterwards. The inner work is more important than the outer work. That's why there are women here who don't pass or are known as trans and perfectly fine with it.
Well, I've always hoped that it will make me more free to be myself live the life I want. It may not solve everything, but I think that's true. Like want to date and stuff, but feel weird doing it as a boy. I want to do charity work cause that stuffmmakes me feel better, but i feel unable to start as a boy. Whatever groups I join I want them to only know me as a girl. I don't want to come out then continue being in that group. Much of this is about needed social interaction and lifestyle changes, but these things can only change after I present as female because I feel awkward and uncomfortable pressening as male. Its so fake, uncomfortable and depressing.
And I should note the dysphoria is very bad and makes me revert into a shell. It sucks in general too cause I don't want to look this way and it makes living hard. I just feel so much because of dysphoria as a guy and hate looking the way I do, but it's also hard when it cripples you and forces you to a life of solitude where you can't interact with others. I hate looking this way and it makes me cry whenever I try with other people. Its so fake. But it gets very lonely.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 26, 2014, 07:07:03 PM
Well, I've always hoped that it will make me more free to be myself live the life I want. It may not solve everything, but I think that's true. Like want to date and stuff, but feel weird doing it as a boy. I want to do charity work cause that stuffmmakes me feel better, but i feel unable to start as a boy. Whatever groups I join I want them to only know me as a girl. I don't want to come out then continue being in that group. Much of this is about needed social interaction and lifestyle changes, but these things can only change after I present as female because I feel awkward and uncomfortable pressening as male. Its so fake, uncomfortable and depressing.
I felt that way too. And once I started passing, I felt more comfortable for about a minute. Then I started getting paranoid because everyone thought I had something I didn't. It just created new insecurities.
I'm just afraid you're putting so much focus on the physical stuff (like I did), you're going to be disillusioned once you get it.
Now, I'm not trying to come down on you. I care about you a lot and want to help. I don't know your history or full situation. But if you don't already have this whole social thing going on... and if you have had problems finding love... these things are not going to change just because your appearance does. If you're insecure now, you probably will be doubly so as a girl (and especially, a trans girl). Not trying to scare you. I hope that you can learn from my mistakes and you can be happier sooner than I am. And I'm somebody who was relatively confident and had no problems finding partners in my former incarnation.
Basically, maybe being trans is responsible for most of what's going on with you. But transition alone doesn't erase that. You are probably not very social because you're trans. You probably have romantic issues because you are trans. But it won't fix it hon.
It's too bad you don't live in Chicago. there's a 24 hr Starbucks in the heart of boys town. You could be half naked with purple skin sitting and having a nice latte and no one would blink an eye.
[quote afir=163823.msg1412667#msg1412667 date=1398559108]
I felt that way too. And once I started passing, I felt more comfortable for about a minute. Then I started getting paranoid because everyone thought I had something I didn't. It just created new insecurities.
I'm just afraid you're putting so much focus on the physical stuff (like I did), you're going to be disillusioned once you get it.
Now, I'm not trying to come down on you. I care about you a lot and want to help. I don't know your history or full situation. But if you don't already have this whole social thing going on... and if you have had problems finding love... these things are not going to change just because your appearance does. If you're insecure now, you probably will be doubly so as a girl (and especially, a trans girl). Not trying to scare you. I hope that you can learn from my mistakes and you can be happier sooner than I am. And I'm somebody who was relatively confident and had no problems finding partners in my former incarnation.
Basically, maybe being trans is responsible for most of what's going on with you. But transition alone doesn't erase that. You are probably not very social because you're trans. You probably have romantic issues because you are trans. But it won't fix it hon.
[/quote]
Oh I know you're trying to help. I trust you. I think you are right. I just don't know how to be confiden and only feel better about myself when i can help others in some way or get their approval because it helps with my self esteem. I care deeply about what others think of me which I'm sure you've noticed in some of my behavior. I don't know how to change it though.
I'm out and visible, but I generally do feel attractive and good. A big part of my success I beleive was due to me getting a good team together to help me find my style. I've got a woman for my hair, a woman for my make up, and I regularly seek the help of stylists at clothing stores. These people are my teachers and when they get to know me sometimes they become my friends.
Before transition I was a hermit too LTL. Now, putting myself out there and being open does mean that today, I occasion get called a 'he' which sucks. But every day of my life post transition is better than any day before because I'm free.
By starting this thread, it seems to me that you're getting close to being blessed by the $&@! off fairy. A cis friend of mine told me about that. She just stopped worrying herself over what other people thought about what she was up to and started to live her life for herself. I guess you could say the same for me cause I cared very much about passing too. For a long time I didn't do anything transition related because I didn't want to be seen as a masculine woman. I was sure I would be unhappy. So I get where you're coming from, I think. Just for me one day it was kinda poof, $&@! it, I'm transitioning.
I wish I could do more for you girl. More than tell you it's possible to be happy as a visible trans woman. I suspect my assurance is difficult to believe. I'm still going to relay that it gets better. And that I'm pulling for you. And I'm looking forward to the soon coming day to wish you congratulations on your first day of being full-time.
Indeed as FA is been saying transition isn't a silver bullet. Still, I have found it a lot easier to deal with my other shortcomings now.
LTL, I hope I'm not too late for my experiences to help.
I know many transwomen who don't pass and who are thrilled at their transitions. Passing is definitely not a prerequisite to happiness.
For my own experience, I work in a place where everyone knows I used to be a man. No one in my workplace his given me the slightest trouble over it. Of course I live in a tolerant place.
Lately I've been going out occasionally sans wig. I'm easier to clock, and I get stares and scowls. I don't like that, and I resent that I need a "disguise" of sorts in order to be looked upon as a human being. The converse, when I go to places where no one knows me and no one clocks me, is incomparable. To be treated and gendered as a woman feels like nothing on earth.
But passing has its drawbacks too. I never know if I've been clocked and if it's obvious to the person I'm with that I'm trans. I can get sort of neurotic if I'm not careful, looking for signs that they treat me differently. And I know that once my "secret" is out, it's out and all the makeup in the world won't erase that from people's minds. It's easier just for people to know.
I think neither passing nor non-passing is superior as a lifestyle. It's certainly possible to be thrilled with life as a non-passing transwoman.
Good luck. I hope this helps.
LTL- I should send you some photos of when I had just started out... I was dressed like a guy and already demanding proper pronouns from everyone. Each day was a learning experience, and something important that I eventually got the hang of was how to elicit proper pronouns from people automatically. I still wasn't "passing" at all for a good 4 months later (okay maybe at night sometimes), but it was hugely important to my psyche in the whole scheme of things.
Physical appearance doesn't have to play any role with your gender unless you let it or want it to. Society will treat you like a woman even if you look trans. If you go straight for passing stealth, though, you could be waiting forever. A lot of "passing" like that comes from presentational experience requiring quite a lot of trial and effort, and failure. You have to be willing to accept that you aren't going to pass at first, if you ever do want to pass. Keep your eyes on the prize, always.
As far as what to do? Collect your thoughts, write 'em down, or just simply keep asking questions. You WILL figure this out, I am sure of it. Find things that make you happy, or that appease your desire to achieve your goal (one might call it progress ;))
Don't worry at all about being emotional or upholding an always positive image here. This is why we have this site, to be here for you in times like this. Everyone has bad days! Honestly I've seen you help out so many other people that it is an honor to think that I might be able to somehow help you :) Absolutely no apologies necessary. I think it's safe to say we all are going to love you regardless.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 26, 2014, 07:51:28 PM
Oh I know you're trying to help. I trust you. I think you are right. I just don't know how to be confiden and only feel better about myself when i can help others in some way or get their approval because it helps with my self esteem. I care deeply about what others think of me which I'm sure you've noticed in some of my behavior. I don't know how to change it though.
Well, you've got the same thing a lot of women have, especially assigned females. And it's not a bad thing necessarily. But you're going to need a lot of self-love and care to thrive as a woman in this world. Especially a trans one. If helping others helps build that for you, do it now. Don't wait until you pass perfectly. Because in your eyes, that may never happen. And your eyes are all that really matter. You look fine now. Just be you. Introduce yourself as Mattie. Volunteer places don't care who you are. You're there to help. And honestly, you are an exceedingly feminine soul. I don't doubt that will outshine everything else.
Thanks everyone. Talking these things out really helped me tonight.
Quote from: FA on April 26, 2014, 08:10:55 PM
Well, you've got the same thing a lot of women have, especially assigned females. And it's not a bad thing necessarily. But you're going to need a lot of self-love and care to thrive as a woman in this world. Especially a trans one. If helping others helps build that for you, do it now. Don't wait until you pass perfectly. Because in your eyes, that may never happen. And your eyes are all that really matter. You look fine now. Just be you. Introduce yourself as Mattie. Volunteer places don't care who you are. You're there to help. And honestly, you are an exceedingly feminine soul. I don't doubt that will outshine everything else.
Thanks Fa. I'm just not comfortable socializing as male anymore, but maybe I just have to get out there and be me at this point. It's getting time for me to present as female. Though, I don't know if most girls are like me. My need for validation and approval is kind of bad. Like even if one person here didn't like me, I'd be really sad and would have to win their favor in some way. Seph has told me that it's sort of a defense mechanism that I've developed from my past, and I think that makes a lot of sense. I just want to finally have an inner sense of self worth and not let other people be in control of my feelings about myself. Even when people say nice things or say I pass, it's important because it's the only positive way for me to see myself. I literally see my own self worth as it's measured by others. A lot of this has to do with my childhood and I would need the approval of family in certain cirumstances in order to ensure there would be peace and everything would be okay (I can't talk to much about this). But there was no telling when things would go bad and then I would get hurt and it would be my fault. IIt was totally randomn and I would never know what would bring things upon me and I can't get passed it to this day. Much of that was reinforced through bullying and other stuff that occurred. That'w why passing is important to me. It's the correct behavior to prevent me from getting hurt by others. It's the way for me to finally feel free to be myself without having to worry about the randomness and how it can hurt me.
I really should get out more though and start doing things. I don't know. I'm so scared of this world and I think everyone is going to hurt me. But I got to have an independent self esteem here.
Quote from: Jennygirl on April 26, 2014, 08:08:02 PM
LTL- I should send you some photos of when I had just started out... I was dressed like a guy and already demanding proper pronouns from everyone. Each day was a learning experience, and something important that I eventually got the hang of was how to elicit proper pronouns from people automatically. I still wasn't "passing" at all for a good 4 months later (okay maybe at night sometimes), but it was hugely important to my psyche in the whole scheme of things.
Physical appearance doesn't have to play any role with your gender unless you let it or want it to. Society will treat you like a woman even if you look trans. If you go straight for passing stealth, though, you could be waiting forever. A lot of "passing" like that comes from presentational experience requiring quite a lot of trial and effort, and failure. You have to be willing to accept that you aren't going to pass at first, if you ever do want to pass. Keep your eyes on the prize, always.
As far as what to do? Collect your thoughts, write 'em down, or just simply keep asking questions. You WILL figure this out, I am sure of it. Find things that make you happy, or that appease your desire to achieve your goal (one might call it progress ;))
Don't worry at all about being emotional or upholding an always positive image here. This is why we have this site, to be here for you in times like this. Everyone has bad days! Honestly I've seen you help out so many other people that it is an honor to think that I might be able to somehow help you :) Absolutely no apologies necessary. I think it's safe to say we all are going to love you regardless.
Yeah, you're right. I just can't get the stuff into my head ya know?
Quote from: suzifrommd on April 26, 2014, 08:05:30 PM
LTL, I hope I'm not too late for my experiences to help.
I know many transwomen who don't pass and who are thrilled at their transitions. Passing is definitely not a prerequisite to happiness.
For my own experience, I work in a place where everyone knows I used to be a man. No one in my workplace his given me the slightest trouble over it. Of course I live in a tolerant place.
Lately I've been going out occasionally sans wig. I'm easier to clock, and I get stares and scowls. I don't like that, and I resent that I need a "disguise" of sorts in order to be looked upon as a human being. The converse, when I go to places where no one knows me and no one clocks me, is incomparable. To be treated and gendered as a woman feels like nothing on earth.
But passing has its drawbacks too. I never know if I've been clocked and if it's obvious to the person I'm with that I'm trans. I can get sort of neurotic if I'm not careful, looking for signs that they treat me differently. And I know that once my "secret" is out, it's out and all the makeup in the world won't erase that from people's minds. It's easier just for people to know.
I think neither passing nor non-passing is superior as a lifestyle. It's certainly possible to be thrilled with life as a non-passing transwoman.
Good luck. I hope this helps.
Thanks for Sharing Suzi. I hope to have that sense of confidence soon.
Quote from: Misato on April 26, 2014, 08:02:21 PM
I'm out and visible, but I generally do feel attractive and good. A big part of my success I beleive was due to me getting a good team together to help me find my style. I've got a woman for my hair, a woman for my make up, and I regularly seek the help of stylists at clothing stores. These people are my teachers and when they get to know me sometimes they become my friends.
Before transition I was a hermit too LTL. Now, putting myself out there and being open does mean that today, I occasion get called a 'he' which sucks. But every day of my life post transition is better than any day before because I'm free.
By starting this thread, it seems to me that you're getting close to being blessed by the $&@! off fairy. A cis friend of mine told me about that. She just stopped worrying herself over what other people thought about what she was up to and started to live her life for herself. I guess you could say the same for me cause I cared very much about passing too. For a long time I didn't do anything transition related because I didn't want to be seen as a masculine woman. I was sure I would be unhappy. So I get where you're coming from, I think. Just for me one day it was kinda poof, $&@! it, I'm transitioning.
I wish I could do more for you girl. More than tell you it's possible to be happy as a visible trans woman. I suspect my assurance is difficult to believe. I'm still going to relay that it gets better. And that I'm pulling for you. And I'm looking forward to the soon coming day to wish you congratulations on your first day of being full-time.
Indeed as FA is been saying transition isn't a silver bullet. Still, I have found it a lot easier to deal with my other shortcomings now.
Thaks Misato. I don't know if I'm developing the personality I need, but I'm glad to hear what worked for you.
Quote from: suzifrommd on April 26, 2014, 08:05:30 PM
LTL, I hope I'm not too late for my experiences to help.
I know many transwomen who don't pass and who are thrilled at their transitions. Passing is definitely not a prerequisite to happiness.
For my own experience, I work in a place where everyone knows I used to be a man. No one in my workplace his given me the slightest trouble over it. Of course I live in a tolerant place.
Lately I've been going out occasionally sans wig. I'm easier to clock, and I get stares and scowls. I don't like that, and I resent that I need a "disguise" of sorts in order to be looked upon as a human being. The converse, when I go to places where no one knows me and no one clocks me, is incomparable. To be treated and gendered as a woman feels like nothing on earth.
But passing has its drawbacks too. I never know if I've been clocked and if it's obvious to the person I'm with that I'm trans. I can get sort of neurotic if I'm not careful, looking for signs that they treat me differently. And I know that once my "secret" is out, it's out and all the makeup in the world won't erase that from people's minds. It's easier just for people to know.
I think neither passing nor non-passing is superior as a lifestyle. It's certainly possible to be thrilled with life as a non-passing transwoman.
Good luck. I hope this helps.
Yeah, neither situation is superior to me. I know others don't feel this way, but my ideal situation would be everyone knows my 'situation' and doesn't care. Still genders me male. It feels good a little to be assumed a cis man. But I don't like it too much once I start making friends. I shied away from some guys and girls who could have become good friends. Because I'm just not that comfortable stealth. I don't like wondering whether they'd still like me if they knew. Makes me feel like an imposter. Sometimes I really envy trans peeps who don't pass.
Could just be my personality though. As you can probably see, I'm more of an open book type. Freud would have characterized me as the baby who ->-bleeped-<-s and is proud of it. Or whatever it was he said.
Couple things.
FA, I know you a little and like who you are. Sure I am not the only one.
LTL, darling, at some point that step will be needed. Don't rush but just know, you will never be ready. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever. Are your fears real dear?
That's it.
Mikaela
Quote from: learningtolive on April 26, 2014, 08:28:26 PM
Thaks Misato. I don't know if I'm developing the personality I need, but I'm glad to hear what worked for you.
Happiness for LTL, by LTL and of LTL. I'm pulling for you hon. :)
Quote from: Misato on April 26, 2014, 09:46:01 PM
Quote from: learningtolive on April 26, 2014, 08:28:26 PM
Thaks
Misato. I don't know if I'm developing the personality I need, but I'm glad to hear what worked for you.
Happiness for LTL, by LTL and of LTL. I'm pulling for you hon. :)
^ and on that note, to LTL from LTL again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_NRGUVAkfU
Time doesn't stand still, honey. However much we wish it too. You will probably never think she's beautiful enough. Or passable enough. Young enough. Skinny enough. Or good enough. Sort of par for the course for a woman.
I've seen her pictures and she's gorgeous. Are you brave enough to be her? As she is? What do you need? voice lessons? A little more time on HRT?
25 years. 30. 35. 40. 45. 50. 55. 60. 65. 70. 75. 80. 85. 90. 95. 100. 1000. years.
How long will you make her sit in the shadows until she comes to light? Don't end up like me. I've transitioned. But still not come to light. I still live in the shadows terrified of the light, to be seen. Don't let this be her fate. It only gets harder as the years erode. She's not going to look any better at 30.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 26, 2014, 08:28:26 PM
Thanks Fa. I'm just not comfortable socializing as male anymore, but maybe I just have to get out there and be me at this point. It's getting time for me to present as female. Though, I don't know if most girls are like me. My need for validation and approval is kind of bad. Like even if one person here didn't like me, I'd be really sad and would have to win their favor in some way. Seph has told me that it's sort of a defense mechanism that I've developed from my past, and I think that makes a lot of sense. I just want to finally have an inner sense of self worth and not let other people be in control of my feelings about myself. Even when people say nice things or say I pass, it's important because it's the only positive way for me to see myself. I literally see my own self worth as it's measured by others. A lot of this has to do with my childhood and I would need the approval of family in certain cirumstances in order to ensure there would be peace and everything would be okay (I can't talk to much about this). But there was no telling when things would go bad and then I would get hurt and it would be my fault. IIt was totally randomn and I would never know what would bring things upon me and I can't get passed it to this day. Much of that was reinforced through bullying and other stuff that occurred. That'w why passing is important to me. It's the correct behavior to prevent me from getting hurt by others. It's the way for me to finally feel free to be myself without having to worry about the randomness and how it can hurt me.
I really should get out more though and start doing things. I don't know. I'm so scared of this world and I think everyone is going to hurt me.
I broke my rule about not spending time posting here until I can get things a little more together in my own life, because the way you think sounds so much like the way I think sometimes, it's almost scary. We both spend way too much time thinking about our problems and not enough time actually trying to solve them. When you spend all your time thinking about a problem, and none of your time trying to work on it, it just sits there and seems to get bigger and bigger as time passes, until it's so big that the idea of getting past it seems completely impossible. In my case it's mostly because I've had self esteem issues for my whole life that led me to have a chronic fear of failure. And of course, the only guaranteed way not to fail, is to never try in the first place.
You just can't allow that kind of thinking to control your life. You just have to figure out what it takes to make you happy, and get out there and start working towards it. Lately I've started to realize I don't really enjoy being a computer programmer that much, even though it's the only thing I've done in my whole life that I've ever been that good at. So now I'm actually trying to learn to draw, even though it's something I haven't done since high school. I have a lot of doubts that I'll ever be as good of an artist as I was a programmer, but at least it's something I actually enjoy doing. Life is full of those kind of situations, where if you aren't willing to ignore your fear and doubt and do something that you are uncertain about, you may miss out on the things with the greatest potential to improve your life.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 26, 2014, 08:28:26 PMBut I got to have an independent self esteem here.
Yes, you do, because you are an awesome person. I have never read anything here that you have posted that has been mean or negative in any way. Unless you are pretending to be someone entirely different here than who you actually are, I can't imagine that the people you meet in the real world are going to see you in any other way. I mean, some people are just jerks, but they're going to be jerks no matter what you do, so there's no point in worrying about them, right? ;) Just remember that no matter how scared you are, nothing is scarier than missing out on all the things life has to offer because you were afraid of what other people might think.
It stings sometimes and I get embarrassed or fearful but I just say "->-bleeped-<- it" and move on.
Sorry everyone for last night. I woke up recently and got a god awful amount of sleep that I didn't know was even possible. I don't even really remember everything, so sorry I was very emotional again. I'll be okay, yesterday was just one of those days.
Quote from: Mikaela on April 26, 2014, 09:32:13 PM
Couple things.
FA, I know you a little and like who you are. Sure I am not the only one.
LTL, darling, at some point that step will be needed. Don't rush but just know, you will never be ready. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever. Are your fears real dear?
That's it.
Mikaela
You're right. I just don't know how to be not ready but ready, lol.
Quote from: FA on April 26, 2014, 10:10:06 PM
Happiness for LTL, by LTL and of LTL. I'm pulling for you hon. :)
^ and on that note, to LTL from LTL again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_NRGUVAkfU
Time doesn't stand still, honey. However much we wish it too. You will probably never think she's beautiful enough. Or passable enough. Young enough. Skinny enough. Or good enough. Sort of par for the course for a woman.
I've seen her pictures and she's gorgeous. Are you brave enough to be her? As she is? What do you need? voice lessons? A little more time on HRT?
25 years. 30. 35. 40. 45. 50. 55. 60. 65. 70. 75. 80. 85. 90. 95. 100. 1000. years.
How long will you make her sit in the shadows until she comes to light? Don't end up like me. I've transitioned. But still not come to light. I still live in the shadows terrified of the light, to be seen. Don't let this be her fate. It only gets harder as the years erode. She's not going to look any better at 30.
You're right. It's going to happen sometime soon. I just want to pass when it does. I'm still early on the hrt and all. I still want to go full time in the summer if it's possible.
Quote from: Miyuki on April 27, 2014, 12:33:41 AM
I broke my rule about not spending time posting here until I can get things a little more together in my own life, because the way you think sounds so much like the way I think sometimes, it's almost scary. We both spend way too much time thinking about our problems and not enough time actually trying to solve them. When you spend all your time thinking about a problem, and none of your time trying to work on it, it just sits there and seems to get bigger and bigger as time passes, until it's so big that the idea of getting past it seems completely impossible. In my case it's mostly because I've had self esteem issues for my whole life that led me to have a chronic fear of failure. And of course, the only guaranteed way not to fail, is to never try in the first place.
You just can't allow that kind of thinking to control your life. You just have to figure out what it takes to make you happy, and get out there and start working towards it. Lately I've started to realize I don't really enjoy being a computer programmer that much, even though it's the only thing I've done in my whole life that I've ever been that good at. So now I'm actually trying to learn to draw, even though it's something I haven't done since high school. I have a lot of doubts that I'll ever be as good of an artist as I was a programmer, but at least it's something I actually enjoy doing. Life is full of those kind of situations, where if you aren't willing to ignore your fear and doubt and do something that you are uncertain about, you may miss out on the things with the greatest potential to improve your life.
Yes, you do, because you are an awesome person. I have never read anything here that you have posted that has been mean or negative in any way. Unless you are pretending to be someone entirely different here than who you actually are, I can't imagine that the people you meet in the real world are going to see you in any other way. I mean, some people are just jerks, but they're going to be jerks no matter what you do, so there's no point in worrying about them, right? ;) Just remember that no matter how scared you are, nothing is scarier than missing out on all the things life has to offer because you were afraid of what other people might think.
Thanks for you thoughts and for empathizing. I know exactly what you are saying, and in many ways you are right, but I just don't know how to make me do these things and get passed it all. Logically and rationally speaking it all makes sense, but I'm a girl driven by her emotions.
Quote from: llerret on April 27, 2014, 02:05:01 AM
It stings sometimes and I get embarrassed or fearful but I just say "<not allowed> it" and move on.
I look forward to the day I can say the same. Good for you on developing that mentality because it sounds like a good place.
@LTL: I've kept up with this thread, and remember what was said here. From what I gather, you and I have a lot in common and you also remind me of a friend of mine a little too. It really is hard taking the step to go outside in a dress or skirt isn't it? How I first did it was late at night, when it was dark, there was no one around and went outside for a few secs to a min. I then very slowly worked my way up to going outside more and more a little each time. Then, thank you black out. Though I took a big chance, I went out not once but twice as myself, with no flash light and no one to see me and one time with in umbrella. I figured even if a care passes by, it'll still be too dark to tell for sure whether I'm male or female so I wouldn't be found out. This was back before I went full time btw. Anyway, I eventually gained enough courage to go out in a skirt after being full time as myself for a while (Winter=long pants and shirt+thermals) once it got warm enough and it was great. I then later went out in a dress and again great. I got ma'am'd more, treated and viewed as female more and it was a nice exp. for me but , believe me and I know you know this, it wasn't easy, especially when I was first going outside for a few secs at a time and often times I would chicken out and run back inside or not even make it out the door.
There really is a reason why you see so many people posting how hard it is before they go full tiem and likewise how much better it is after they go full time and find out, what was I worrying about for so long? It's because it's true. Will it still be easy after you go full time? Yes, it'll get a lot easier as you keep being yourself but there will be times for you when it's hard.
Lastly, you have NOTHING to apologize for. If you EVER need to reach out, show your emotions or just talk, don't hesitate to do so. I know exactly what you mean by not wanting to drag others down and all that you said because that's how I feel too. Just remember you have to talk at some point, don't hold it in and hey! You don't need to uphold any kind of image like you were talking about. (Referring to the part where you said you try to uphold a positive image of yourself here) Just be yourself and remember, you can't please everyone and there's no point in trying to do so. Please yourself. Also, you say you want to help others, I believe you're already doing that here but just remember you can't help anyone if you yourself are sick or dead. I say that because, if you hold things in too much for too long, it will get to you and will run you down. Hang in there and never give up. Oh and lastly, for any kind of life exp. like this, including when you finally start going out as yourself, remember this vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sot-yu9dIZE
And again, PM me if you ever want or need to talk. :)
Quote from: Shana-chan on April 27, 2014, 12:58:45 PM
@LTL: I've kept up with this thread, and remember what was said here. From what I gather, you and I have a lot in common and you also remind me of a friend of mine a little too. It really is hard taking the step to go outside in a dress or skirt isn't it? How I first did it was late at night, when it was dark, there was no one around and went outside for a few secs to a min. I then very slowly worked my way up to going outside more and more a little each time. Then, thank you black out. Though I took a big chance, I went out not once but twice as myself, with no flash light and no one to see me and one time with in umbrella. I figured even if a care passes by, it'll still be too dark to tell for sure whether I'm male or female so I wouldn't be found out. This was back before I went full time btw. Anyway, I eventually gained enough courage to go out in a skirt after being full time as myself for a while (Winter=long pants and shirt+thermals) once it got warm enough and it was great. I then later went out in a dress and again great. I got ma'am'd more, treated and viewed as female more and it was a nice exp. for me but , believe me and I know you know this, it wasn't easy, especially when I was first going outside for a few secs at a time and often times I would chicken out and run back inside or not even make it out the door.
There really is a reason why you see so many people posting how hard it is before they go full tiem and likewise how much better it is after they go full time and find out, what was I worrying about for so long? It's because it's true. Will it still be easy after you go full time? Yes, it'll get a lot easier as you keep being yourself but there will be times for you when it's hard.
Lastly, you have NOTHING to apologize for. If you EVER need to reach out, show your emotions or just talk, don't hesitate to do so. I know exactly what you mean by not wanting to drag others down and all that you said because that's how I feel too. Just remember you have to talk at some point, don't hold it in and hey! You don't need to uphold any kind of image like you were talking about. (Referring to the part where you said you try to uphold a positive image of yourself here) Just be yourself and remember, you can't please everyone and there's no point in trying to do so. Please yourself. Also, you say you want to help others, I believe you're already doing that here but just remember you can't help anyone if you yourself are sick or dead. I say that because, if you hold things in too much for too long, it will get to you and will run you down. Hang in there and never give up. Oh and lastly, for any kind of life exp. like this, including when you finally start going out as yourself, remember this vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sot-yu9dIZE
And again, PM me if you ever want or need to talk. :)
Thanks for empathizing and the pm offer. Yeah it's not easy. I just don't like getting overly emotional here. And it's funny but you're right about the not being able to help others without knowing how to help yourself. I wrote something earlier yesterday trying to understand myself better and trying to think how I proceed in line with that problem. I really don't get me and my actions. In any case, I am me and there is not much to do other than just be it.
Thanks for your comment. I'm getting there faster than it seems. I just like to kick myself very hard and punish myself.
LTL, I just have to tell you something that helped me out with my emotions when I was still not full-time. I was having trouble with my emotions, motivation, and generally was just 'out of sorts', and my speech therapist realized it before I did. She told me it was common for girls at puberty to get moody like that and that I was just having my equivalent of a period.
It was a well needed reminder of who I was becoming, and that I was on a journey of discovery. It made me able to accept the days like that along with the great ones.
Hang in there hon, maybe chocolate on days like this??? (it also helps on good days too! ;))
Quote from: Ducks on April 27, 2014, 02:09:37 PM
LTL, I just have to tell you something that helped me out with my emotions when I was still not full-time. I was having trouble with my emotions, motivation, and generally was just 'out of sorts', and my speech therapist realized it before I did. She told me it was common for girls at puberty to get moody like that and that I was just having my equivalent of a period.
It was a well needed reminder of who I was becoming, and that I was on a journey of discovery. It made me able to accept the days like that along with the great ones.
Hang in there hon, maybe chocolate on days like this??? (it also helps on good days too! ;))
Thanks.
Well, I won't be having chocolate, but I'm doing the unthinkable and ordering a pizza from Dominoe's, lol. Yeah, there are a lot of calories, but I'm starving and eating always makes me cheer up. As long as that's all I eat, I gues sI should be okay in the end.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 27, 2014, 02:22:42 PM
Thanks.
Well, I won't be having chocolate, but I'm doing the unthinkable and ordering a pizza from Dominoe's, lol. Yeah, there are a lot of calories, but I'm starving and eating always makes me cheer up. As long as that's all I eat, I gues sI should be okay in the end.
Yeah, it took me some time to process that advice :) Didn't seem possible when she first said it, but later it made a lot more sense. Pizza is the food of the gods, but chocolate has some medicinal qualities that help.
Quote from: Ducks on April 27, 2014, 02:37:32 PM
Yeah, it took me some time to process that advice :) Didn't seem possible when she first said it, but later it made a lot more sense. Pizza is the food of the gods, but chocolate has some medicinal qualities that help.
See, I think Pizza is the food of the devil, considering all the carbs and calories, but they say the devil is good at tempting people, lol. I really shouldn't be eating it. I just need comfort food today after yesterday.
Thanks again all. I'm really doing a lot better than I was yesterday. It was just one of those days.
Passing or not passing can be important, but it is a temporary feeling. Most people do not care whether you pass or not. People are interested in what you are doing, and will do as an employee, a leader, a dad/mom, a friend and etc.
During the meeting in Hawaii two weeks ago, very few women there wore as bold as me, and most people did not recognize me, as I wore like in my avatar. That was the first time they ever saw me wearing skirt. Once hearing my voice, they immediately recognized me. I interacted with them, but a few people mentioned my dresses. My colleagues happily took photos for me. They like me because I work professionally, not because I look attractive. The fact is that there was not a single person who ever considered marriage with me.
barbie~~
Quote from: barbie on April 27, 2014, 03:29:49 PM
Passing or not passing can be important, but it is a temporary feeling. Most people do not care whether you pass or not. People are interested in what you are doing, and will do as an employee, a leader, a dad/mom, a friend and etc.
During the meeting in Hawaii two weeks ago, very few women there wore as bold as me, and most people did not recognize me, as I wore like in my avatar. That was the first time they ever saw me wearing skirt. Once hearing my voice, they immediately recognized me. I interacted with them, but a few people mentioned my dresses. My colleagues happily took photos for me. They like me because I work professionally, not because I look attractive. The fact is that there was not a single person who ever considered marriage with me.
barbie~~
You have a very healthy perspective and this is true for the most part. However, I will always care about what others think about me. It's just who I am and I don't see these things changing. I'll always be chasing for validation and approval in some way. When I don't get it, it's my own fault. Passing is just an extension of this. It's the need for societies tacit approval that it's okay to be me. When I don't get it, which has happened through not passing and getting called names, I blame myself and hurt myself. While I realize everyone wants to help me and it's great that you all are caring people, I'm damaged goods. I really am. However, it's gotten me far. My need of approval has allowed me to suceed in some ways (college is a great example). I'll always put how other people feel above my own to some degree. The problem is, I don't know how to get this approval or validation. It's always eluded me. And I'm always chasing something that will never come. And the only way to have self worth is to somehow be approved by others or be a positive force to them which is tacit approval like passing. I don't know how to have independent self esteem that isn't tied into others in some way. I've experienced way to much in the past that made me this way and changing this would be tantamount to me becoming a different person. In any case, I'm a messed up cookie and always will be that. I've just got to accept this is who I am and learn to love myself for my flaws. But I can't change who I am. I'm flawed, messesd up, but this is who LTL is as a person. I've got to accept her and love her for it rather than change her.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 27, 2014, 04:12:02 PM
You have a very healthy perspective and this is true for the most part. However, I will always care about what others think about me. It's just who I am and I don't see these things changing. I'll always be chasing for validation and approval in some way. When I don't get it, it's my own fault. Passing is just an extension of this. It's the need for societies tacit approval that it's okay to be me. When I don't get it, which has happened through not passing and getting called names, I blame myself and hurt myself. While I realize everyone wants to help me and it's great that you all are caring people, I'm damaged goods. I really am. However, it's gotten me far. My need of approval has allowed me to suceed in some ways (college is a great example). I'll always put how other people feel above my own to some degree. The problem is, I don't know how to get this approval or validation. It's always eluded me. And I'm always chasing something that will never come. And the only way to have self worth is to somehow be approved by others or be a positive force to them which is tacit approval like passing. I don't know how to have independent self esteem that isn't tied into others in some way. I've experienced way to much in the past that made me this way and changing this would be tantamount to me becoming a different person. In any case, I'm a messed up cookie and always will be that. I've just got to accept this is who I am and learn to love myself for my flaws. But I can't change who I am. I'm flawed, messesd up, but this is who LTL is as a person. I've got to accept her and love her for it rather than change her.
I think Barbie's way of doing things is just so right on. She just does it and looks great doing it. She doesn't even do hormones , but she looks great.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 27, 2014, 04:12:02 PM
You have a very healthy perspective and this is true for the most part. However, I will always care about what others think about me. It's just who I am and I don't see these things changing. I'll always be chasing for validation and approval in some way. When I don't get it, it's my own fault. Passing is just an extension of this. It's the need for societies tacit approval that it's okay to be me. When I don't get it, which has happened through not passing and getting called names, I blame myself and hurt myself. While I realize everyone wants to help me and it's great that you all are caring people, I'm damaged goods. I really am. However, it's gotten me far. My need of approval has allowed me to suceed in some ways (college is a great example). I'll always put how other people feel above my own to some degree. The problem is, I don't know how to get this approval or validation. It's always eluded me. And I'm always chasing something that will never come. And the only way to have self worth is to somehow be approved by others or be a positive force to them which is tacit approval like passing. I don't know how to have independent self esteem that isn't tied into others in some way. I've experienced way to much in the past that made me this way and changing this would be tantamount to me becoming a different person. In any case, I'm a messed up cookie and always will be that. I've just got to accept this is who I am and learn to love myself for my flaws. But I can't change who I am. I'm flawed, messesd up, but this is who LTL is as a person. I've got to accept her and love her for it rather than change her.
What happens when you no longer get any external validation? Societies tacit approval? You'll be waiting a while.
How do I handle not passing or being known as trans?
I simply don't care. If you have a problem, well, that's YOUR problem, and I refuse to make it mine. One day I just wanted to blow chowder wearing boy clothes, then I looked down and saw my tiny breasts and thought about how ridiculous I felt. I started to feel like a full transition was right for me, so I jumped in with both feet. I didn't have the option of being stealth or moving to a new town and everyone was going to know sooner or later, so I just got over it and moved on. I see pictures of me a year ago and it's amazing how different I look now. I was probably jumping the gun a bit, but that's just how I roll. All it took was a little attitude adjustment.
Finding out who my friends REALLY were was awesome. I didn't want those other people clogging up my life anyway.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 27, 2014, 04:12:02 PM
You have a very healthy perspective and this is true for the most part. However, I will always care about what others think about me. It's just who I am and I don't see these things changing. I'll always be chasing for validation and approval in some way. When I don't get it, it's my own fault. Passing is just an extension of this. It's the need for societies tacit approval that it's okay to be me. When I don't get it, which has happened through not passing and getting called names, I blame myself and hurt myself. While I realize everyone wants to help me and it's great that you all are caring people, I'm damaged goods. I really am. However, it's gotten me far. My need of approval has allowed me to suceed in some ways (college is a great example). I'll always put how other people feel above my own to some degree. The problem is, I don't know how to get this approval or validation. It's always eluded me. And I'm always chasing something that will never come. And the only way to have self worth is to somehow be approved by others or be a positive force to them which is tacit approval like passing. I don't know how to have independent self esteem that isn't tied into others in some way. I've experienced way to much in the past that made me this way and changing this would be tantamount to me becoming a different person. In any case, I'm a messed up cookie and always will be that. I've just got to accept this is who I am and learn to love myself for my flaws. But I can't change who I am. I'm flawed, messesd up, but this is who LTL is as a person. I've got to accept her and love her for it rather than change her.
Damaged does not mean un-fixable, Mattie. That you care so much about what others think of you is who people have made you. Not who you are. If you think about it, how can it be who you are when you don't actually know who that is outside of other people's perceptions? Perceptions coloured by their own experiences in the world, their own emotions, hangups and perspective? What you're doing is denying yourself everything you think is so important in others - the right to form your own views.
As you say, when you don't get the views of you that you want, you see it as your fault. That it's something that you did wrong, or said wrong, or didn't try hard enough. You blame yourself for it, but it's essentially a paradoxical approach - on the one hand you believe that what other people think is so fundamentally important to your sense of self that it's what you base your way of living on... Yet on the other hand you believe that what you do, say and think, is the primary influence in these thoughts of you. Like... "I can make people think something about me that I want them to just by doing the right things." Their views matter, but it's you who makes those views. How can you trust what other people think of you if, at some level, you believe that they can't form an opinion independent of your own actions? Especially knowing that you have low self-esteem and constantly think you're everything you're scared of others thinking you are.
What you are essentially doing is projecting your
own views of yourself onto those around you. Turning people into mirrors of yourself. And that's why you never find what you're looking for, sweetie. Because it isn't about other people at all. It's about you. You give power over yourself to others, give away that control of yourself and your own sense of self to those around you because, well, you don't know how not to. Because it's something you did in your past to protect yourself from being hurt. At a time in your life where you weren't old enough, maybe, or weren't in a position to be able to assert your
own feelings. To be who you wanted to be. And at that time it worked - it stopped you from being hurt. But now your mind feels instinctively that it's the only way you can be. It worked before so it can work again and again. But your mind doesn't realise that your circumstances are different now. You've grown up. You're at a point where you can dictate your own life. Mattie, your mind is still holding on to the scared kid who needed to stop being hurt and couldn't do anything else but appease those around her to stop the hurt.
It doesn't have to be like that. Independent self esteem can be established by trying to see that other people will sometimes think things about you no matter what you do, say, think or feel... Simply because it's who they are as people. Because just as your past and your life have influenced how you are, so have theirs influenced how they are. And you can start trying to attribute the same importance to what
you think as you do to what everyone else thinks.
Think about times there was no one else around but you felt good about yourself. Maybe you did something, or wore something, wrote or drew something. Where did those feelings come from if not from other people?
That is the Mattie you have to find. The girl who may be buried somewhere deep down, but who knows it's okay to be who she wants to be because it really
is who she is.
Mattie, you didn't let anyone stop you transitioning because they thought you shouldn't, or because of what they thought about it. Which proves you
do have an independent sense of self, and what you want. Tap into that person - the person with her own wants and needs and views. She's there, waiting.
You say changing how you've done things in your past would make you a different person, and not you. I would respectfully disagree with that. I think it would, for the first time, make you actually
be you, and not an amalgamation of fears, thoughts and desires created by those around you. People who don't actually know anything other than what you think they want to know. An illusion created to feel safe. You've done that before, sweetie, by living as your birth gender. That wasn't any better for you than this is.
Changing it would mean that, for the second time, you will stop being who everyone thinks you should be, and start being who
you think you should be. Your views are just as important as everyone else's. They have just as much worth. You have just as much control over your own feelings about yourself as you give to everyone else. The key is seeing that.
Sorry, those are just my feelings on it. I think you are worth far more than you think you are, Mattie.
Interesting thread, before FFS and dropping 30 lbs I felt like 80% of the people didn't even notice, 10% who did notice didn't care, and only 10% gave me a disapproving look. Even after SRS and everyone who knows me is very impressed with the results (even when trying to look male some people were saying I looked female), I still wonder, "did I just get clocked?". I know I have been a few times, especially after opening my mouth and letting my deep male voice come out. The mass majority of people have still been congenial. I've only had one time when some one made me feel uncomfortable. He was standing behind me in the check out line (at Wal-mart of course....), and I looked back and I felt like he was glaring at me. Part of me wanted to say something, but discretion won out. He looked like the kind of guy who was generally pissed about everything anyway.
It's more important to me to live my life the way I want, without fear, not in hiding, and not pretending to be something I'm not so I'll be accepted. I am what I am. If someone doesn't like it, too bad, and they can hate me all they want, just don't screw with me.
Cheers :)
Kim
I could care less, really. I have seen people mistake biological women for men...women who are not "trying" to look male at that...as well as mistake some biological males as female, even when they are not trying to be female.
Hi,
Do I pass or blend in Look at my photo. you make your mind up like every one else has to .
Okay my friends go back 56 years, they knew me then and still do now, my friend know more about myself than i do and they are right, they have me sussed even figgered me out, and i never said a word yet some knew what i was, and get this how i look never came into it, they knew what i knew not all the detail of cause,
Then when i ...TOLD...every one nation wide, in NZ. TV papers net, i did not have to explain what , who or why, it was all done over night,
Today they have no issues dont care i look more masculine than feminine = female they accept im female....thats..... a little different,
My new friends over the last 16 years here in Waimate accept and we get on as we did before, . its about get known join groups be part of socity become a member work with with them and best of all you will be as wellcome any where, as i am , you just have to move your self and do it,
I have responsibilities they have given me and i fullfill them plus do more,
I'v heard all the excuss's and the why not's cant do and dont look right.
I have a raft of them that i could have used from Dyslixea major to handycaps ,
Then i dont look like a female you know what i went through hell been abused lacked every thing at school and even work was a nightmare plus more,
i knew i had to grow into a strong woman if i was to be a woman .
i will say i was being prepared over 20 years ago and i needed to go through detail to get where i am now. even though im an intersexed female i had a lot of disadvantages and still have,
my looks or lack of is not what this is about this is about growing into.... being.....who i am as a person first , then a strong minded woman,
get away from this western type thinking that you must look a certain way, my people dont all have this feminine look about them ,
quite masculine in thier facial features, like i am , so think out side the box or im more likely to say out side your county and look at other peoples you may find how lovely they look and like myself with those features.
do they have issues with them selfs. something to think about,
...noeleena...
I think a lot of people firgure out I am trans by interacting with me, or if they are from the same county they probably already know.
Its not that bad. I am comfortable with how I live my life and with who I am, and most people are respectful to me. There are some people who cant understand it, some who seem scared, some downright disapproving - but I don't really care about them. What they think does not change who I am. If they have a problem with me well its their problem no mine.
My life is still much, much better then when I lived as a man.
Well, I could say passing doesn't matter. Look inside your heart. Be yourself. That's all that matters. And if you can believe that, great. But, for you Mattie, it does matter, so why type it? First things first: Did you pluck your eyebrows? At all. Even a little. A eensy weensy bit. Even that one little annoying hair that grab and try to pluck but miss? Well, did you? Because from you last images I saw, I didn't see plucked eyebrows. Maybe you plucked in a mannish way but pluck them. You need to start somewhere and you need to do something postive and constructive that will get you somewhere rather than hearing the philosophies of being trans and passing? I guess some people like being trans. I effing hate it. Do I hate myself. No not all. But it is what it is. But back to my point: do something. Do anything. And for Chrissake pluck your eyebrows! Seriously, I'm not kidding. I also believe the umbilical cord is still a bit too tight and tied and needs severing and that is holding you back big time. You need to make a choice. Or not. Time doesn't wait.
Mattie reminds me a little of my mother, I just wanna shake her and be like damnn it woman why do you ask if you're not even gonna listen! Or if you're gonna bury us in rationaluzations or pretend you're listening but do your own thing, anyway.
I say that with love, hon. Lotsa and ltotsa love. But you need to snap out of this! Because your problems are so fixable. I've seen your pictures...and I have to agree with Joanna on what she said about the eyebrows. Damn girl, fix that sh-t! Hell, I'll do it for you.
Fact is, nobodys born perfect! Noobody. You need to modify your body to where you like it. That includes makeup..such as to cover the minor beard shadow you got goin on. And a little bit of expression in your face will do wonders for you...like...smile...or scowl...but express an emotion.
Your problems are so so fixable Mattie. You just need to except that estrogen isn't a panecea. There's tons more work in transition. You WILL pass if you try, but you don't try babe! And also....I think you're a little OCD. Which you may wanna discuss with a therapist.
Seriously Mattie, go to a salon. Get your hair done, get your brows styled. Then go to the mall and get a fuull makeover if you don't know how to apply it yourself. Then buy something cute and girly from American Apparel or wherever you shop. Then make a friend. Then go out for some fricken FroYo, and tell me you don't feel a gajillion times better. It's summer, girl....you know who you are right? That's the hardest f-cking part! Now go out and be her, ya scaredy cat!
*waits for LtL to write out more rationalizations for why she's dragging her feet*
PS. Please don't be hurt this is meant as 'tough love' not an attack, by any means at aall
Quote from: Sephirah on April 27, 2014, 06:40:19 PM
Damaged does not mean un-fixable, Mattie. That you care so much about what others think of you is who people have made you. Not who you are. If you think about it, how can it be who you are when you don't actually know who that is outside of other people's perceptions? Perceptions coloured by their own experiences in the world, their own emotions, hangups and perspective? What you're doing is denying yourself everything you think is so important in others - the right to form your own views.
As you say, when you don't get the views of you that you want, you see it as your fault. That it's something that you did wrong, or said wrong, or didn't try hard enough. You blame yourself for it, but it's essentially a paradoxical approach - on the one hand you believe that what other people think is so fundamentally important to your sense of self that it's what you base your way of living on... Yet on the other hand you believe that what you do, say and think, is the primary influence in these thoughts of you. Like... "I can make people think something about me that I want them to just by doing the right things." Their views matter, but it's you who makes those views. How can you trust what other people think of you if, at some level, you believe that they can't form an opinion independent of your own actions? Especially knowing that you have low self-esteem and constantly think you're everything you're scared of others thinking you are.
What you are essentially doing is projecting your own views of yourself onto those around you. Turning people into mirrors of yourself. And that's why you never find what you're looking for, sweetie. Because it isn't about other people at all. It's about you. You give power over yourself to others, give away that control of yourself and your own sense of self to those around you because, well, you don't know how not to. Because it's something you did in your past to protect yourself from being hurt. At a time in your life where you weren't old enough, maybe, or weren't in a position to be able to assert your own feelings. To be who you wanted to be. And at that time it worked - it stopped you from being hurt. But now your mind feels instinctively that it's the only way you can be. It worked before so it can work again and again. But your mind doesn't realise that your circumstances are different now. You've grown up. You're at a point where you can dictate your own life. Mattie, your mind is still holding on to the scared kid who needed to stop being hurt and couldn't do anything else but appease those around her to stop the hurt.
It doesn't have to be like that. Independent self esteem can be established by trying to see that other people will sometimes think things about you no matter what you do, say, think or feel... Simply because it's who they are as people. Because just as your past and your life have influenced how you are, so have theirs influenced how they are. And you can start trying to attribute the same importance to what you think as you do to what everyone else thinks.
Think about times there was no one else around but you felt good about yourself. Maybe you did something, or wore something, wrote or drew something. Where did those feelings come from if not from other people? That is the Mattie you have to find. The girl who may be buried somewhere deep down, but who knows it's okay to be who she wants to be because it really is who she is.
Mattie, you didn't let anyone stop you transitioning because they thought you shouldn't, or because of what they thought about it. Which proves you do have an independent sense of self, and what you want. Tap into that person - the person with her own wants and needs and views. She's there, waiting.
You say changing how you've done things in your past would make you a different person, and not you. I would respectfully disagree with that. I think it would, for the first time, make you actually be you, and not an amalgamation of fears, thoughts and desires created by those around you. People who don't actually know anything other than what you think they want to know. An illusion created to feel safe. You've done that before, sweetie, by living as your birth gender. That wasn't any better for you than this is.
Changing it would mean that, for the second time, you will stop being who everyone thinks you should be, and start being who you think you should be. Your views are just as important as everyone else's. They have just as much worth. You have just as much control over your own feelings about yourself as you give to everyone else. The key is seeing that.
Sorry, those are just my feelings on it. I think you are worth far more than you think you are, Mattie.
Seph, you really are the best. I actually just took a screenshot for me to re-read this when I'm in a better mood. I think you're right about a lot of things, and it's that ability to empathize and see things clearly that I respect about you. I just don't know how to change myself.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on April 28, 2014, 02:05:51 AM
Well, I could say passing doesn't matter. Look inside your heart. Be yourself. That's all that matters. And if you can believe that, great. But, for you Mattie, it does matter, so why type it? First things first: Did you pluck your eyebrows? At all. Even a little. A eensy weensy bit. Even that one little annoying hair that grab and try to pluck but miss? Well, did you? Because from you last images I saw, I didn't see plucked eyebrows. Maybe you plucked in a mannish way but pluck them. You need to start somewhere and you need to do something postive and constructive that will get you somewhere rather than hearing the philosophies of being trans and passing? I guess some people like being trans. I effing hate it. Do I hate myself. No not all. But it is what it is. But back to my point: do something. Do anything. And for Chrissake pluck your eyebrows! Seriously, I'm not kidding. I also believe the umbilical cord is still a bit too tight and tied and needs severing and that is holding you back big time. You need to make a choice. Or not. Time doesn't wait.
I have been plucking, but I'm not the best at it. I'm afraid of taking too much off and I've messed up big time on my brows in the past. When I decide on going full time, I will just go to a salon.
As for the relationship with my family, we may be too close, but they're all I have. Look at the quote you have on the side of your name. Something in the words of together we are everything. I believe people in general are what give us meaning and not having my family would be a horrible thing for me. Besides, I need them and they are doing a lot to support me at a time where my job status is very insecure and needs time in order to be sorted out. I appreciate that. I don't want to be one of those trans women that live in their cars or something. And that happens way to often. Ensuring I have a means of survival is important.
Quote from: Abbyxo on April 28, 2014, 02:22:23 AM
Mattie reminds me a little of my mother, I just wanna shake her and be like damnn it woman why do you ask if you're not even gonna listen! Or if you're gonna bury us in rationaluzations or pretend you're listening but do your own thing, anyway.
I say that with love, hon. Lotsa and ltotsa love. But you need to snap out of this! Because your problems are so fixable. I've seen your pictures...and I have to agree with Joanna on what she said about the eyebrows. Damn girl, fix that sh-t! Hell, I'll do it for you.
Fact is, nobodys born perfect! Noobody. You need to modify your body to where you like it. That includes makeup..such as to cover the minor beard shadow you got goin on. And a little bit of expression in your face will do wonders for you...like...smile...or scowl...but express an emotion.
Your problems are so so fixable Mattie. You just need to except that estrogen isn't a panecea. There's tons more work in transition. You WILL pass if you try, but you don't try babe! And also....I think you're a little OCD. Which you may wanna discuss with a therapist.
Seriously Mattie, go to a salon. Get your hair done, get your brows styled. Then go to the mall and get a fuull makeover if you don't know how to apply it yourself. Then buy something cute and girly from American Apparel or wherever you shop. Then make a friend. Then go out for some fricken FroYo, and tell me you don't feel a gajillion times better. It's summer, girl....you know who you are right? That's the hardest f-cking part! Now go out and be her, ya scaredy cat!
*waits for LtL to write out more rationalizations for why she's dragging her feet*
PS. Please don't be hurt this is meant as 'tough love' not an attack, by any means at aall
I know you are trying to help Abby and I'm glad I'm fixable. I will go to a salon and fix the brows and find a better hairstyle when I'm ready. But I'm not ready. And I don't know if I'll ever be that way. I'm probably going to sit in misery before for a while longer before I actually make any productive or meaningful changes. That's the truth. I go slowly at my own pace, but it's how I am. No matter what is said to me, I don't think I'll ever consider anything faster than June for full time.
I have family that is OCD, so I'm sure I don't have that even though I probably have lots of other problems going on. I see people do the rituals all the time and it drives me crazy to watch them do these things to "ensure the house doesn't go on fire". However, I really do acknowledge that there are other problems going on that I'm going to have to deal with. I just don't know what they really are and why I am the way I am. That's really what I'm trying to understand because I think these are my biggest problems.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 28, 2014, 05:28:09 AM
I know you are trying to help Abby and I'm glad I'm fixable. I will go to a salon and fix the brows and find a better hairstyle when I'm ready. But I'm not ready. And I don't know if I'll ever be that way. I'm probably going to sit in misery before for a while longer before I actually make any productive or meaningful changes. That's the truth. I go slowly at my own pace, but it's how I am. No matter what is said to me, I don't think I'll ever consider anything faster than June for full time.
Well June is only a little more than a month away. ;) If you're only a month away from working up the courage to go full time, I don't think anyone could complain about the progress you're making. Still, I wish you wouldn't say that you have to sit in misery before making any changes. You don't "have" to do any such thing. If you want to move at your own pace then that's fine, but you don't have to feel bad about yourself just because you're not exactly where you want to be right now. Try to feel good that you are making the changes you want to make, and believe that you will get to the place you want to be eventually.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 28, 2014, 05:28:09 AMI have family that is OCD, so I'm sure I don't have that even though I probably have lots of other problems going on. I see people do the rituals all the time and it drives me crazy to watch them do these things to "ensure the house doesn't go on fire". However, I really do acknowledge that there are other problems going on that I'm going to have to deal with. I just don't know what they really are and why I am the way I am. That's really what I'm trying to understand because I think these are my biggest problems.
Hmm... you know OCD manifests itself in a lot of different ways. I'm not an expert on the subject, but I do believe that constant worrying is one possible manifestation of OCD pattern thinking. Maybe this is something you could bring up with your therapist? Especially if it runs in your family, you might actually be suffering from a treatable condition. Just a thought...
Quote from: Miyuki on April 28, 2014, 06:05:44 AM
Well June is only a little more than a month away. ;) If you're only a month away from working up the courage to go full time, I don't think anyone could complain about the progress you're making. Still, I wish you wouldn't say that you have to sit in misery before making any changes. You don't "have" to do any such thing. If you want to move at your own pace then that's fine, but you don't have to feel bad about yourself just because you're not exactly where you want to be right now. Try to feel good that you are making the changes you want to make, and believe that you will get to the place you want to be eventually.
Hmm... you know OCD manifests itself in a lot of different ways. I'm not an expert on the subject, but I do believe that constant worrying is one possible manifestation of OCD pattern thinking. Maybe this is something you could bring up with your therapist? Especially if it runs in your family, you might actually be suffering from a treatable condition. Just a thought...
I've got to be careful about privacy, but there is some mental illness that may or may not exist in some family member or members. This has had a huge impact on me and my own self worth over the years, but I really can't discuss how this impacted me. I've got to respect privacy of other people. I really don't think I'm OCD, but I have picked up habits and traits from certain family members. My therapist is very aware of my family and we talk a great deal about how I'm treated and the need to find an external support system given how things at home can be. I wish I could open up more about these things as it would help to let these things out, but I just can't share some of these things as they are very personal and private for other people involved as well.
thank you. I know I'm slow, but I've got to move at my own pace and deal with these internal issues I have first. Thank you for understanding that.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 28, 2014, 06:15:26 AM
I've got to be careful about privacy, but there is some mental illness that may or may not exist in some family member or members. This has had a huge impact on me and my own self worth over the years, but I really can't discuss how this impacted me. I've got to respect privacy of other people. I really don't think I'm OCD, but I have picked up habits and traits from certain family members. My therapist is very aware of my family and we talk a great deal about how I'm treated and the need to find an external support system given how things at home can be. I wish I could open up more about these things as it would help to let these things out, but I just can't share some of these things as they are very personal and private for other people involved as well.
*sigh*, I know what
that can be like. I haven't always had the easiest time getting along with my family either. Things are okay for the moment, but I'm never sure how long it will last... If you ever want to just vent at someone privately and let a few things out, I would be happy to listen and offer any advice that I can. I don't want you to betray anyone's confidence, but I'll listen to anything you feel comfortable sharing.
Quote from: Miyuki on April 28, 2014, 06:31:54 AM
*sigh*, I know what that can be like. I haven't always had the easiest time getting along with my family either. Things are okay for the moment, but I'm never sure how long it will last... If you ever want to just vent at someone privately and let a few things out, I would be happy to listen and offer any advice that I can. I don't want you to betray anyone's confidence, but I'll listen to anything you feel comfortable sharing.
Oh, thank you. It's just there are some things I don't like talking about and haven't shared with another soul, probably never will. I can only talk openly about some things. I'm just very hurt by my family for some things and I could have been a different person if things were differently, but they weren't and things are as they stand. You can't change the past or alter who people are no matter how hard you try. I still love them with my whole heart and will do whatever I have to in order to protect them and their image. Despite anything that may have harmed me in the past, they are the greatest people in this world and I love them so much. It makes things very conflicted at best because much of my self image is tied into my family and the past.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 28, 2014, 06:40:35 AM
Oh, thank you. It's just there are some things I don't like talking about and haven't shared with another soul, probably never will. I can only talk openly about some things. I'm just very hurt by my family for some things and I could have been a different person if things were differently, but they weren't and things are as they stand. You can't change the past or alter who people are no matter how hard you try. I still love them with my whole heart and will do whatever I have to in order to protect them and their image. Despite anything that may have harmed me in the past, they are the greatest people in this world and I love them so much. It makes things very conflicted at best because much of my self image is tied into my family and the past.
Your family really can be either the worst or the best thing in your life, depending on the circumstances... I've also been through a few things with mine that I've chosen not to share here. But I've been lucky that even though they've done some things that have really hurt me in the past, it's never been out of spite or malice, but rather just allowing their personal flaws to get out of hand and affect other people. That's why I've always been willing to forgive them. I hope that's true in your case as well.
Quote from: Miyuki on April 28, 2014, 06:58:53 AM
Your family really can be either the worst or the best thing in your life, depending on the circumstances... I've also been through a few things with mine that I've chosen not to share here. But I've been lucky that even though they've done some things that have really hurt me in the past, it's never been out of spite or malice, but rather just allowing their personal flaws to get out of hand and affect other people. That's why I've always been willing to forgive them. I hope that's true in your case as well.
It's very hard to explain. I would love to say things are peachy and always were, but it's ignoring problems that I've pretended never existed. It's weird because in some many ways, my family are the greatest people ever. Then in some ways, they are why I am this fragile and messed up. I don't know how to put it and I don't want to hurt oher people. This is just something I can't talk about no matter how much I want to open up. In any case, they are really wonderful people who mean the world to me. I don't want anyone here thinking badly about any of them when they are so great. I just don't know how to explain things and it would be very wrong for me to talk about some of this stuff. Seriously, I really can't talk more than this or all hell would break lose and it would be my fault. I just can't deal with that.
LTL, you sound a lot like the way I was before I had concluded I was trans. I had put so much thought and micro-assessment into every element of my life good or bad, my motivations and why people didn't quite 'get' me, that when I reached the point of presenting female part-time it was actually the easiest part of my transition. I simply got so fed up with feeling sorry for myself about everything, knowing I'd done nothing wrong, that I'd already hit the fore-mentioned "#@%*-it" moment. If you are as young as you say then you're feeling the same as I did at that age. Looking back I know that I would not have had the knowledge or the strength of character at that point to transition even if I had known yet I wanted to. You mentioned that there are probably other unrelated issues you must tackle before you can continue your transition, and realizing this and finding the strength to deal with it is likely far more important than anything else you will ever do. My doctor said that, in her experience, HRT generally only causes major mental health blow-ups if the underlying problems were already there. When I first met my new doctor I had already cleared my head of most of my fears and they deemed me to be one of the most grounded and emotionally healthy people they'd ever met. Other than a brief stint in group therapy (and a touch of the Susan's Place ;)) I ended up not having to go the therapist route at all as a result.
I've just started seeing a speech therapist and they are in a clinic that deals with any sort of voice issue. To my great shock they are actually acting like an all-around coach for my transition process so there is a lot of discussion about how my life is going and a number of gender-related questionnaires that are forcing me to evaluate my situation in-depth - therapy by stealth, perhaps. One of the questions posed basically asked if I thought I passed in public and to what degree. I was completely stumped! I knew going in to the transition process that I'd have to have a very healthy attitude towards my public presentation at the beginning and through all the stages because I live in one of the largest cities in North America and have to walk past hundreds or thousands of people in a trip. I never caught so much as an odd glance that I know of and I've also used the womens' public washrooms many times now without any trouble. But I also know that in almost every direct interaction with a service person I am immediately gendered male even wearing obvious female attire. Even the pharmacist handing out my HRT and seeing my preferred name on file called me "sir" the first few visits. So perhaps I don't pass at all and no one is being weird about it? I find that hard to believe but I can't be sure. But I've made that the least of my concerns especially right now having to grow out my beard for electrolysis and finding that concealer makeup is a waste of time for hiding it. A little uncomfortable, sure, but I understand that I can't do anything to improve the situation so I'm not going to let it impact my freedom.
I understand how you feel right now, that your presentation affects your freedom to have the experiences and inter-personal relationships you seek as a female. Trust me, I know how that is right now. I've already gone two years since coming out to myself and spending the entire time feeling 'undefined' as a presentation and to some extent as a personal identity. I also don't know or claim to know how all of this will turn out or how far I will choose to take it. The best I can do is stay on track with my brutally busy schedule of work and appointments while enjoying the moments of freedom I have. I went into this process with the attitude that everyone could know I was trans so that every single time someone doesn't notice or at least interacts with me respectfully that is a bonus and a gift. On any given day therefore I'm receiving thousands of little gifts. All I really hoped for is that my presentation would not cause majorly uncomfortable or dangerous situations, and so far my experience has been safe. When I am being mis-gendered it is no failure on my part and I understand that I'll be living as an 'unfinished product' for a while yet. It has not impacted my access to anything I wanted to do so far because I haven't allowed it to.
Hmmm, I should qualify that further by noting that I don't feel I'm in a position to seek romantic relationships yet with compatible women because I can't yet appear instinctively to them as compatible in their minds. Having gone nearly relationship-less until now at age 37 because I was so confusing to women and I was so confused and afraid myself, I'm feeling quite lonely but also stuck in a position where I'm not physically ready to be the person I think I am. It does make me kinda sad, but again, I can't really do anything about it yet. I will probably complete my transition just as I'm turning the big 4-0 and then I have to learn to live from scratch, finding relationships and making them work, particularly sexually, without proper experience. This is one of the biggest mental challenges remaining for me and unfortunately I know it has to wait, looming on the horizon, until I can even begin to try. I deal with my challenges by remembering to do it one day at a time and not dwell on the future. Each day I may feel slightly different about myself but I really won't know I've hit a major milestone until it happens. One of the most important things I ever realized is that I can't control or plan if or when I pass fully. Therefore I can't stress out over when that magical moment might happen. I just have to get out there and just be.
For god's sake, get out there and LIVE while you're still young! Don't wait and have to finish transition at 40 as I will. I might get a few precious years to be seen as 'young and beautiful' and maybe relationship material to 30-somethings. You can do this and not have to look back with as much regret as I will. I wasted 15 to 20 years of my life thinking that if I just struggled through one more day then tomorrow would somehow be different. That day never came until I crashed hard and committed to fundamentally changing my own approach to life, risks be damned!
Thanks for your post. I really appreciate hearing your thoughts and experiences. Well, it's nice to know you've been in my shoes and was able to come out of it. I'm glad things are going well.
Talking all these things out has helped me come to some understanding. I think what I'm going through right now has less to do with passing and more to do with my self image and overall life quality. To be honest, it's not in good shape and I'll be spending today doing things that aren't good for me in order to feel a little better and get some relief from depression. I'm more worried about who I am and how others see me more than anything. Passing itself really isn't the end goal the more I think of it. It's important to me, but only because it shields myself from other people and allows me to finally not be consumed by it and preventing me from everything. However, my life is never going to get better until I stop caring so much about them. I guess I realize all of these things. I just don't know how to get passed it. And that sounds like a cop out, but it's true.
And I want to apologize again to everyone. I know I'm annoying with this stuff and in many ways I am a loser. I hate that I'm like this and I'm sorry to subject you all to it.
Don't be silly. I'm sure everyone was happy to help!
I really do look forward to you getting on HRT, noticing all the changes and hopefully, very soon, living as a girl, good luck!
I've been n hrt for almost a year. I started in June and got on the usual dose around October. So it's been a few months.
I'm sure everyone is happy to help, but I feel bad. I feel like I drag everyone else down with me and I'm disappointing a lot of people that I don't want to hurt. I need to think of more long term solutions for my depression and I'm not handling this the right way. While I can't do everythig all at once like people are suggesting, it's just not for me, I can't cry and abuse myself anymore like this. Everyone is so sweet and caring here. And you all mean the world to me for being like that. I never really had that in my life. Sorry for getting emotinoal, it just means a lot and I hate being so negative here.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 28, 2014, 12:15:24 PM
I've been n hrt for almost a year. I started in June and got on the usual dose around October. So it's been a few months.
I'm sure everyone is happy to help, but I feel bad. I feel like I drag everyone else down with me and I'm disappointing a lot of people that I don't want to hurt. I need to think of more long term solutions for my depression and I'm not handling this the right way. While I can't do everythig all at once like people are suggesting, it's just not for me, I can't cry and abuse myself anymore like this. Everyone is so sweet and caring here. And you all mean the world to me for being like that. I never really had that in my life. Sorry for getting emotinoal, it just means a lot and I hate being so negative here.
Mattie, hon, you know how much I care about you. I feel like an older sister to you and want the best for you. Sweetie, by the sounds of it you didn't have a whole lot of things in your life that empowered you, that made you feel like it was okay to be you. That's probably why you don't really know how to deal with it now. It's like a whole new plethora of feelings and confusion and trying to understand yourself. Trying to find yourself free of all the survival techniques you've had to adopt while you were growing up.
It's okay, sweetie. It really is. It will take as long as it takes. Sometimes it can take time to untangle the threads of everything that's happened to you, what it all means, and how you can grow from it. Keep searching, trying to understand, looking for yourself.
You will get through this.
*extra big hug*
Hoping not to be triggering here but let me fill out a little detail from my story in response to your new postings:
For most of my life I was super self-conscious and paranoid of what people thought of me. I'd even look at everyone's faces as I passed them on the street to see if they were watching me critically. I grew more and more reserved. It removed the expressiveness from my voice and my face and even affected the way I walked. I had to shed all this as part of my recovery. Within reason I don't really care now what people think of me in any context. I do this as respectfully as I can and without rubbing it in anyone's face though.
I used to keep my emotions in check because I felt they would just make people uncomfortable. Everything would store up into a severe crying fit roughly every four to six months where all my frustrations and depression would burst out in an uncontrollable and unfocused purge. In the final year of my down-swing I'd have a couple drinks with friends every week and when I'd leave to go home I'd become completely consumed with my depression and cry all the way home. I didn't understand what was wrong and felt helpless to do anything about it. I'd always felt somewhat alien and couldn't put all the pieces together. The depression was making me feel like my head was gripped by some sort of indescribable vise of 'crazy-tension' and I'd literally try to physically daze myself to dull the feeling. I seriously felt like I needed to smash my head against a wall repeatedly until I couldn't feel or think (thankfully I didn't try this). Eventually I decided I had to stop hurting myself and dwelling on my depression and simply descended into a zombie-like state where I didn't care about tomorrow and just went through my daily routine like a robot. I was essentially dead inside.
I would have lived out the rest of my life in this condition if I hadn't somewhat accidently awakened to my trans reality and how it put together all the scattered pieces of my past into a completely coherent picture. One of the first things I did was join Susan's. If anything, this was my therapy. It should be the same for you - this is a therapy group and you shouldn't apologize or feel ashamed for showing your emotions or telling your story. If I didn't feel it was this way then I wouldn't have dared make some of the personal admissions I've made. When people clearly demonstrate here that they are good-hearted then we all want to help and you can expect us to try because your challenges hit home with our own experiences. It especially means a lot to me to do this because I feel like I'm paying back a debt to all listeners on Susan's that helped me when I was scared and uneducated at the beginning of my own journey.
You can feel better but you have to flip the switch in your mind that says it is possible and learn to ignore everything that has no bearing on your success. When I take the last major step to come out at work I will instantly and unavoidably be known as trans (and whatever that means to each person) to hundreds of people spreading out quickly to thousands due to the very public nature of my employment and the social media age. I absolutely have to have a grip on my mind to get through this and it begins with the understanding that my success in transition is more important than what any one of those people thinks about it. There will always be people that know part of your story. They are going to make up their own minds about it no matter what you do. If any of them are still around at the end then they probably will be good with the end result and treat you the way you want to be treated. Worrying about fully hiding your past will probably affect your behavior negatively and cause you an enormous amount of unwarranted paranoia. I finally found true calm and peace of mind in my life for the very first time when I threw away my unnecessary concerns - so can you!
I aparently can't handle the "not passing" right now... I am fulltime for two weeks, all of my friends are telling me, that I am passable, but I keep being sirred, no matter how I am dressed... I started feeling ugly and desparate...
I don't react, when I get sirred - I just behave normally and just go on, but when I go back home and I am alone, I start to cry of despair... but obviously, there is nothing I can do to change the way I look...
@LTL: Ok, finally took a look at your "hot mess" pic and girl, if that was you not trying then DANG would I ever bet you'd more than pass when you ARE trying. Yes in some ways you look A but honestly when I first saw the top pic I thought, girl. (Was the first I saw and the 2nd I noticed the stache shadow but for some reason can't see it in the top one, maybe the lighting) Really, as others have said, you CAN pass and that is an honest to goodness answer from me.
Anyway, as I read more and more of your posts here, I really can't help but be amazed at how similar we are. While it might just be me projecting here (I don't think so though), if I am right and we ARE this similar then, I honestly believe I understand a good bit of how you feel and to a certain extent, what is the cause for why you are the way you are. I honestly believe the only person who can change you is, you and maybe someone close to you in your life but YOU have to take the steps toward changing. You keep saying you don't want to bring us down, give you a negative view of you but that isn't the case and you keep saying sorry when there isn't any need too. I also know that probably no matter what we say it may not hit home and help you take the steps you need, or it may but only if you listen to yourself and us. As for not being able to talk about certain things, especially when it involves privacy of others/yourself, if not us then your therapist hun. Seriously, PLEASE tell us you are at least getting that stuff off of you through your therapist? Oh and also, if you don't go full time in June then you'll probably go full time when you can't take it no more but really, that's ONLY going to do you more harm then good. Take your time and work your way up to it like I did and best of luck on getting the courage to do so. While you may not think you have it now, I'm sure it's there in you somewhere. :)
Thanks everyone. While this is a support forum and all, I just feel like I'm sort of like a hurricane and just destroy everything in my path and leave people feeling hurt, negative and annoyed. Even if that's not this case for all, I've had this impact way more than I care to admit during my time here. That's not what I want to be, but it's who I am. So I have to say sorry. It's the only response I've ever known because most of my problems are my own fault and doing in some way.
I really wish I could open up more, but there are things I can't say here. I'm open about a lot here, but family issues are not one of those that I can easiy share. I've talked about some things and have been really open here in many ways, but about most of my past other things are best kept in the family for the sake of privacy. My therapist is aware of certain family dyanmics and the negative implications they play, but I don't like bashing people I love and it creates a false image because I'm to blame for a lot of things too. Look at how I react in the Susan's family, it's not all that different to real ife. So, I don't want to blame my family for these things. They may have hurt me in some big ways, but they are my everything and I'm not going to throw them under a bus when I've go my own huge flaws. They are more amazing than not and I'd rather leave it at that.
Honestly, it's sweet of everyone to try, but I'm not going to change anytime soon. I'm not going to get better. It's just not going to happen. I'm going to continue dealing with the pain the best way I know how to, which I admit isn't a good thing, let more time pass. Yes, I will prepare myself and train for the future, but it's for the future. I may train my voice, practice my makeup, and learn what works on my body, but this is all in doors out of sight from the world. The next month or so I'm going to hide myself in my room and do what I always do. I'm a loser and my life lacks meaning and substance, but I don't change and just whine about it. I'm lonely as all hell, but will never reach out to the world. This is what I do. I'm looking for answers, yet I already know them and I avoid them. I'm pathetic and we all know this. Maybe I'll find work again so I feel a little better and have things to allow me to avoid my thoughts, but that's something that is uncertain due to a pending appeal and my luck in the job market. And even if I feel lonely, I'm not going to reach out to people as a boy nor am I going to go forward until June, if then, so I will do nothing to resolve these feelings anytime soon.
I'm really sorry everyone. I really am. I try to be a good person, but I fail all the time. And many of you are such nice and sweet people here. I do appreciate everything you say and do even if it doesn't seem that way. I'm really not ignoring anyone and hear everyone's words more than you may realize. I feel a lot and your attempts to help me mean a lot to me. And I'm really sorry but as much as I want to meet everyone else's expectations and be a better person, I just can't right now.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 28, 2014, 09:01:47 PM
Honestly, it's sweet of everyone to try, but I'm not going to change anytime soon. I'm not going to get better. It's just not going to happen. I'm going to continue dealing with the pain the best way I know how to, which I admit isn't a good thing, let more time pass. Yes, I will prepare myself and train for the future, but it's for the future. I may train my voice, practice my makeup, and learn what works on my body, but this is all in doors out of sight from the world. The next month or so I'm going to hide myself in my room and do what I always do. I'm a loser and my life lacks meaning and substance, but I don't change and just whine about it. I'm lonely as all hell, but will never reach out to the world.
You reached out to us didn't you? I know that may not be quite the kind of reaching out you had in mind, but it's something. At least give yourself a little credit for what you've actually done. :)
Quote from: learningtolive on April 28, 2014, 09:01:47 PMI'm really sorry everyone. I really am. I try to be a good person, but I fail all the time. And many of you are such nice and sweet people here. I do appreciate everything you say and do even if it doesn't seem that way. I'm really not ignoring anyone and hear everyone's words more than you may realize. I feel a lot and your attempts to help me mean a lot to me. And I'm really sorry but as much as I want to meet everyone else's expectations and be a better person, I just can't right now.
I don't think there is anyone here who would think badly of you just because you have some difficult personal issues that you are going through.
Everyone here knows what that's like, in one way or another. More than anything I think we are just worried about you, because no one could possibly deserve the amount of criticism you give to yourself. Have you ever noticed that number under your avatar? The one under your post count that seems to go up any time you say something really positive or helpful to another person? It's a lot higher than mine is, that's for sure. ;) I would like nothing more that to hear you say some of the positive things to yourself that you are always saying to everyone else around here.
This question should be asked by every person that ever transitions. Coming to terms with the idea that you may never pass and going ahead with it anyway is kind of a rite of passage. I think most successful transitions start with that step. In some ways it proves your commitment, if only to yourself. I think the most important thing is it just helps manage your expectations, because happiness and meeting expectations are intertwined. Having the former without the latter just doesn't happen. It also helps manage fear. Fear of not passing can keep you locked away, and that isn't good for your mental health. Fear of not passing can also cause you to not pass, so there's that too.
Please don't apologize for being honest about how you are feeling. Getting things that bother you off your chest is therapeutic, and that is kind of the role support forums are supposed to play.
I would say that the stories we tell ourselves in our heads chart the course for how our life turns out. When you tell yourself that you can't do this or that for this or that reason, then those things manifest and you actually never do accomplish any of those things you were sure you couldn't do. I would never, ever treat another person as poorly as I treat myself, so I am guilty of this too, majorly. But we all need to be kinder to ourselves. If we can be, we will put ourselves on a positive trajectory, which will help not only our own lives become brighter, but will allow us to be a positive influence on those that surround us. Positivity emanates and is absorbed by anybody that is lucky enough to be nearby.
All that is well and good, but I know when you are in a dark place, nothing is more difficult to do than start treating yourself well inside your own head. You need friends, you need kindness surrounding you. I hope you can find that in your real life, but if not, maybe you can find some of it here.
@LTL: Truth be told I already knew what you'd say. lol Why? Because we're a lot alike. While I myself beat myself up in similar ways that you do, as well as put things on hold for too long (Thanks genetics and the passing of procrastination lol), there IS a difference between how we do it to ourselves. lol Mine comes from my past and how I hurt others.. that and a bit more I think.. I know others tell me how nice a person I am, how this and that but, while I see it, I can't really give myself enough credit in certain areas and wonder why. (Yes I'm being cryptic here lol) Anyway, enough about me, while I knew what you'd say/do, I also believe like me, you'll eventually reach a point where you can't take it anymore and will go full time. Just remember all our advice and don't revert back out of fear/hesitation and the like. Oh and also, please read the sentence in my sig. ;) (The one that's underlined and not in the pic) While that may seem like it's meant towards people who don't believe what we're telling them or try to deny it, the truth is it is meant for us too and for anything when it comes to denial. It's a saying I like but at times don't like. It's also a reminder to myself regarding something about myself that I dislike but can't help. I hope it'll help you. Oh and, you keep talking about expectations, perhaps it's not us you're trying to live up to but yourself? We keep telling you, you have nothing to impress us with or however you want to put it and even if you do let us down, so what? We aren't you, we have to live our own lives just as you have to live yours. While we share many things in common, none of us here have to try and impress/get approval etc. from anyone else here. I really think you're trying to get approval for yourself more so than from us because you've already got us on your side and we like/love you and, hey, that rep count don't lie you know. :)
Anyway, best of luck and hang in there.
Thanks everyone. I'm just kinda going through something. I don't like being unemployed and right now I feel very devoid of meaning or purpose in life. Like I'm just existing but without a reason. And rather than fill that gap of loneliness and meaningless, I just don't feel able to step forward at this time. So, I'm the creator of my own misery. But whether it's a real feeling or not, I do feel like I'm disappointing people with my failures. And like it or not, that post count is the true reflection of my rep points more than anything. It's just natural since I never shut up, lol. In any case, I am hard on myself to some degree, but I don't know. Honestly, the last few days I've been feeling very confused about who I am and why I am this way. What my purpose in life is and how I get passed this. Transitioning is something I have to do and hopefully it will be the beginning of a whole new life for me, but I don't know. Maybe it won't, and will I ever really get there? I'm kind of just stuck waiting for the day that will never come.
Thank you all for your support and help, but really there is little anyone can do for me in this regard. I have to solve this out for myself and learn my own worth. It's going to take soul searching and time. And whatever helpful or wonderful advice/support is offered to me will fall on open ears but a closed mind. I really don't want people wasting there time with me because that's what I am at the moment. And it will only make me feel like I am failing you all to some degree, I know that's a crazy thought but I do think these things. Thank you so much for all your kind words and help. It means the world to me. I just have to find a way to hep myself this time. I'm not leaving and I'm sure I will continuing talking in some capacity, but I think this thread has reached it's course. Thank you everyone, especially the people that have consistently been there for me, yu know who you are.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 29, 2014, 11:23:20 AM
Honestly, the last few days I've been feeling very confused about who I am and why I am this way. What my purpose in life is and how I get passed this.
Your typo made me smile because it would have made a good intentional pun in the context of this discussion! ;) There's a silver lining even in mistakes.
Quote from: Violet Bloom on April 29, 2014, 02:38:39 PM
Your typo made me smile because it would have made a good intentional pun in the context of this discussion! ;) There's a silver lining even in mistakes.
Lol. There will be many typos and grammatical errors to come. That I can assure you, lol. :)
Quote from: learningtolive on April 29, 2014, 02:40:16 PM
Lol. There will be many typos and grammatical errors to come. That I can assure you, lol. :)
Made you smile! ;D
Quote from: learningtolive on April 29, 2014, 11:23:20 AM
Thanks everyone. I'm just kinda going through something. I don't like being unemployed and right now I feel very devoid of meaning or purpose in life. Like I'm just existing but without a reason. And rather than fill that gap of loneliness and meaningless, I just don't feel able to step forward at this time. So, I'm the creator of my own misery. But whether it's a real feeling or not, I do feel like I'm disappointing people with my failures. And like it or not, that post count is the true reflection of my rep points more than anything. It's just natural since I never shut up, lol. In any case, I am hard on myself to some degree, but I don't know. Honestly, the last few days I've been feeling very confused about who I am and why I am this way. What my purpose in life is and how I get passed this. Transitioning is something I have to do and hopefully it will be the beginning of a whole new life for me, but I don't know. Maybe it won't, and will I ever really get there? I'm kind of just stuck waiting for the day that will never come.
Thank you all for your support and help, but really there is little anyone can do for me in this regard. I have to solve this out for myself and learn my own worth. It's going to take soul searching and time. And whatever helpful or wonderful advice/support is offered to me will fall on open ears but a closed mind. I really don't want people wasting there time with me because that's what I am at the moment. And it will only make me feel like I am failing you all to some degree, I know that's a crazy thought but I do think these things. Thank you so much for all your kind words and help. It means the world to me. I just have to find a way to hep myself this time. I'm not leaving and I'm sure I will continuing talking in some capacity, but I think this thread has reached it's course. Thank you everyone, especially the people that have consistently been there for me, yu know who you are.
LTL, though this is my first reply to this thread I have read entirely through it, and I truly sincerely wish I lived close to you. If I did we could hang out and I could help you one on one out of this slump you seem to be in. I'm fairly sure that hanging out with me for a little while would give you the confidence you'd need to pull yourself out of this hole you're in (I've been told my confidence is contagious!). The first thing I'd do is take you shopping to get you a few cute outfits and accessories also some makeup. Then after getting your hair and nails done, and a little makeup (remember less is more sweetie, lol!) we'd have a girls night out together which during I know you'll come out of your shell. I've seen your photos and I garantee you'll pass 100% and with me at your side you'd have a great time. But most important you'll have a great time as Mattie -as you, and all your worries would melt away. I've followed your progress since I've been a member here at Susan's. I've read your replies especially those recently wherein you've given so much help to other girls. In fact from now on you're no longer LTL to me. Your Mattie and I'll address you as you here and in the future. I just reeeeeaally wish I lived close enough to you to sort of be your big sister and give you a shoulder to cry on, and a big hug when you need it, and moreover show you by example you can get past this slump, come out of that coccoon you're in emerging as the beautiful young woman you are.
Just remember Mattie I'm only a pm away if you need me. :icon_bunch:
Hugs, :icon_hug: :icon_hug: :icon_hug:
Ally :icon_flower:
Quote from: Abbyxo on April 28, 2014, 02:22:23 AM
Mattie reminds me a little of my mother, I just wanna shake her and be like damnn it woman why do you ask if you're not even gonna listen! Or if you're gonna bury us in rationaluzations or pretend you're listening but do your own thing, anyway.
I say that with love, hon. Lotsa and ltotsa love. But you need to snap out of this! Because your problems are so fixable. I've seen your pictures...and I have to agree with Joanna on what she said about the eyebrows. Damn girl, fix that sh-t! Hell, I'll do it for you.
Fact is, nobodys born perfect! Noobody. You need to modify your body to where you like it. That includes makeup..such as to cover the minor beard shadow you got goin on. And a little bit of expression in your face will do wonders for you...like...smile...or scowl...but express an emotion.
Your problems are so so fixable Mattie. You just need to except that estrogen isn't a panecea. There's tons more work in transition. You WILL pass if you try, but you don't try babe! And also....I think you're a little OCD. Which you may wanna discuss with a therapist.
Seriously Mattie, go to a salon. Get your hair done, get your brows styled. Then go to the mall and get a fuull makeover if you don't know how to apply it yourself. Then buy something cute and girly from American Apparel or wherever you shop. Then make a friend. Then go out for some fricken FroYo, and tell me you don't feel a gajillion times better. It's summer, girl....you know who you are right? That's the hardest f-cking part! Now go out and be her, ya scaredy cat!
*waits for LtL to write out more rationalizations for why she's dragging her feet*
PS. Please don't be hurt this is meant as 'tough love' not an attack, by any means at aall
^^ I love this advice because I need to use it myself. I'm out. Will check back in June!
LTL please ease up on yourself, you are being totally emotionally exhausting. :( HRT is still improving you and you're moving towards being a pretty darn knockout of a gal (I'm actually crushing on you in private because you look so damn like a younger version of me lol). In the meantime, how about checking off some of those tick boxes on your to-do list while the magic continues working behind the scenes? Maybe disconnect from Susans for awhile? That's what I'm doing actually, I'm pretty set for now and really need to let the E do its job, then revisit and re-assess.
I do not handle being misgendered well. Thankfully it rarely happens anymore; at least with strangers. I'm clocked often enough though due largely to lingering upper body bulk and when some reactions are laughter I do not handle that well either. I have occassionly abused people as a result which is obviously counter productive but sometimes I can't help it when it pisses me off so much.
The thing that keeps me going is knowing that things are coming together and that one day I will pass very, very well. Never passing? I don't think I could handle that.
I am known as a trans woman by almost everyone I know. Maybe that will change one day, but not likely anytime soon. I don't pass as female always either. Yesterday I got sired by someone collecting money supporting a homeless shelter as I walked out of the post office. So it seems that when my makeup is right, and I'm wearing skinny jeans or a skirt I get correctly gendered (at least to my face), otherwise it is kind of a toss up. This is electrolysis day, so I mostly hate the sight of myself, but I have some stuff to do later this morning, so I'll do what I can and face the world as my authentic self. I don't do very well in the boy suit anymore, and am enough on edge right now not to find out what happens if I present even androgynously.
June 11 is my coming out party at work, so I'm a bit tense, and will be that way for another month or so. Wish it was done. Wish I felt pretty. At least I feel like I fit into my own skin, which is the most important criteria for me to go from day to day.
hugs to everyone,
Julie
I saw Shatner last weekend and thought about thanking him for recording the words, "live life! Live life! Like you're gonna die! Because you're going to."
I found the sentiment so motavating it's actually one reason I am the woman I am today.
I said nothing, but enjoyed the "KAHN!" And "Denny Crane" he gave us. :)
Live life everyone! Live life! :)
I started dressing full-time about 2 months after talking with my therapist (2 months before starting HRT) and there have been moments where i've thought to myself "maybe i made a mistake by deciding to go full-time this early"
but then I remember how good i feel dressing in the appropriate clothes and how ->-bleeped-<-ty i feel wearing male clothes. I dont pass often (at least I dont think so, these days i can't tell if people are staring because i'm freakishly tall or because "its a dude!") its more like hit or miss depending on what i wear or my makeup/hair, but even when I get stared at, i just imagine that these people are rude gawkers with no manners. I also just remind myself one of two things (depending on how I'm feeling) which are:
A) I'm on my way to being beautiful
or B) I'm doing this for me, and this takes courage. Most people dont even have the courage to admit liking a certain artist, I'm embracing my femininity and f*** everyone else.
There are many times where I feel bad, sometimes its just fears and worries on whether or not hormones will do for me what i'm hoping, and other times i think about how I have to accept that a lot of my friends who support me (and use the proper pronouns and the proper name) will still never see me as female. They'll always see me as a trans woman... or a girl who use to be a guy, and it sucks. My only other option is to get new friends, but they are supportive and respectful.. i just cant change how their brains rationalize.
In the end, i just have to remind myself that I'm doing this for me, and that I'm living the life I was meant to live regardless of what people think or do. The only thing I havent been able to control is my response to misgendering... it really REALLY brings me down.... and luckily for me either i pass better than before or the world somehow became more respectful, because i don't get misgendered on appearance anymore, but the moment people see my legal name because of my ID... they immediately destroy any idea in their head that i'm female and the misgendering begins. I also hate being called by my legal name (I'm a month away from changing my name legally, but it still gets to me)
My wife seems to believe that in the future I will pass 100%... I admire her optimism and its what I have to rely on because I dont often think rationally enough to agree. I've actually learned to react differently to rude gawking people. Back then i would cry and blame my appearance or think myself ugly. Now I raise my voice and say "man its AMAZING HOW SOME PEOPLE JUST LOVE TO STARE!" and it makes them really uncomfortable, or other times i'll gawk back (if my wife hasnt already managed to lol) I'm trying to work up the courage to blow them a kiss because THAT makes them reeaaaaaally uncomfortable (obviously not the safest thing to do, but seeing as I'm 6'1' and still have a bit of muscle mass left, I doubt anyone would dare respond... either way most of the time the people who gawk are unfit hispanic men, moms walking around with their kids, or old ladies... doubt any of them are going to stand up and react physically, and in the event that they do, i can defend myself and my wife is a loose cannon).
So what have i said in all this pointless rambling? Just be you and remind yourself that you possess more strength than most of society because you're not afraid to be who you are, while everyone else is too busy caring what others think that they have become products of society's acceptance.
Thank you everyone for your feedback. I've been doing a lot of soul searching as of late, and while I talk a lot about passing, much of this isn't about passing. IT's about hiding from society and avoiding getting judged or hurt by other people. I don't know how I get passed my past and everything, but I've got to do some work in that department. It's weird but every person I interact with may as well be holding a knife and threatening me. I'm damaged and need to get passed this all. I've been able to stop from fully breaking down by putting myself in a cocoon as you will but it's getting harder each time I take down my defense and allow what's really there to be judged. I'm losing it. Transitioning is important to me because it allows me to be myself and stop feeling like I need to hide which is killing me but I feel like there needs to be some extra step. MY therapist keeps pushing exposure therapy, which is important, but I feel there has got to be other steps to get me passed my fear of people and my past. I don't know. I'll make it in the end, but for now I've been feeling some soul crushing depression that is only getting worse. Don't worry, I have a new puppy to teach and play with, so I have a good escape to help me through my internal drama.
Thank you all for your help. When I am feeling more able to absorb your words, aka feeling less emotional, I will reread your suggestions and words. Thank you. :)
Quote from: learningtolive on May 06, 2014, 02:12:09 PMI've been able to stop from fully breaking down by putting myself in a cocoon as you will but it's getting harder each time I take down my defense and allow what's really there to be judged.
I know this feeling all too well -______- especially now. I'm currently in a stage in my transition where I feel extremely vulnerable... I even hesitated coming back on this site because I've just been sheltering myself away from support sites, support groups, transition videos or before and after pictures because lately they tend to make me break down. It really sucks.. I've even avoided all my friends too because I cant handle being misgendered by them right now. I can't imagine how its been for you though if you've been this way for a long time... I've only just started being this way and it hurts because I'm a social butterfly... so not being social as an attempt to avoid breaking down is difficult. You're not alone though.
If it helps, I've seen pics of you that you have posted in previous threads and I wish I looked like you :3 and I'm not just saying that to be nice... im serious lol.
For me its depend how I'm miss genderd.
Eg
If its fam and freinds, then they spend 25 years calling me male pronouns I can't exspect them to be able to forget all those memories of me. That's a funny one its self, they talk about things prior to comming out it "he erm she sorry" talk about yesterday and its "she erm wait ya she"
If its a random then, they don't know anything about me.
I'm ok with this because I meet some new people talk to them a bit and its she every time. Of course that the nice ones. And the predudice ones? Well if its not ->-bleeped-<-, it would be some other part of my personality they choose to victamise me over anyway.
I have had some people I know say to me that they won't call me she antill srs and I'm in their words all said and don't, but after spending more time with me being me they all seemed to just start using she anyway.
But the overall thing that helps me cope with the general population is, the more I'm reffered to as male, the happyer I'm when reffered to as female :)
Passing feels awesome don't get me wrong but I just want to be me, and that being happy with my own apearence. When I pass to myself ill be able to get on with my life.
Quote from: LittleEmily24 on May 06, 2014, 02:26:55 PM
I know this feeling all too well -______- especially now. I'm currently in a stage in my transition where I feel extremely vulnerable... I even hesitated coming back on this site because I've just been sheltering myself away from support sites, support groups, transition videos or before and after pictures because lately they tend to make me break down. It really sucks.. I've even avoided all my friends too because I cant handle being misgendered by them right now. I can't imagine how its been for you though if you've been this way for a long time... I've only just started being this way and it hurts because I'm a social butterfly... so not being social as an attempt to avoid breaking down is difficult. You're not alone though.
If it helps, I've seen pics of you that you have posted in previous threads and I wish I looked like you :3 and I'm not just saying that to be nice... im serious lol.
Thank you for the compliments. It really helps me combat my own poor self image to know there are others who feel differently. :)
Yeah, I'm far from a social butterfly, but wish I could be. That's sort of part of my problem. However, I feel so much fear and anxiety around other people. Like everyone is going to hurt or hate me. It's totally irrational but it's based in past experience. Getting past this is so hard. I've been able to survive in the past, but that was because I could "play a part". I could play the role of what was required of me and take on that persona. Whether it was an organizer in politics, an intern for a government office, teacher's assistant, office assistant that talks to patient's all day, I did my best to exceed in that role and could be quite social when called for. I've always been awkward and shy around people, but I could play my part as best as I could. However, when it calls on me to be myself, I get terrified. I can make a speech in a room full of people, but I can't walk into a store to shop without severe anxiety. So, I can be social if I'm working in some way, but just being myself and living normal aspects of life is really hard. It's odd. I was a great student, but god little things like sitting alone in a lunch room was so hard. Just small talk scares me. I'd rather serve a purpose and fuffil a task than be myself in any capacity. Now that I'm really being true to my feelings and exposing who I am to the world rather than hiding, I absolutly terrified. People scare me. What people think of me, how they'll take me and everything is just crippling. I need people to accept and like me. I was bullied pretty bad and stuff and was a complete loser growing up. Maybe that's part of why, but I think the root is elsewhere (I can't talk about those things though I really want to). In any case, this mentality is something I'm trying to get passed. But I don't know if my therapists methods are working completely. She is pushing me for more exposure therapy, but I feel something else needs to be done. To be fair, I haven't fully disclosed certain family aspects, but she got the jist of it after knowing me for a year and having met them which was eye opening to her about how real some of the control aspects are. I don't know. Nonetheless, I'm sure my anxiety is making everything with my transition so much harder than it really should be. If I can just stop feeling like this, then it wouldn't matter and I could just be myself without caring. Seriously, I can't wait to be able to dress and express myself and all, but the best part of this transition would be to have mental freedom from other people's shackles. The ability to just be myself and maybe even love myself independently to other people's thoughts and expectations. That's what I want. For me, it's not about being an MTF and escaping just gender stuff, it's about being who I am and being confident in that without having to constantly be afriad of others and change myself to meet their expecations. Right now, I still do this. Passing is all about reaching a societal expectation that allows me to feel validation from the world. I think I will need to pass like 100 percent in order to make the steps I need given my current mental state, but I can't wait for the day where I could be free from other people's thoughts and judgements.
Quote from: ButterflyVickster on May 07, 2014, 12:19:12 AM
For me its depend how I'm miss genderd.
Eg
If its fam and freinds, then they spend 25 years calling me male pronouns I can't exspect them to be able to forget all those memories of me. That's a funny one its self, they talk about things prior to comming out it "he erm she sorry" talk about yesterday and its "she erm wait ya she"
If its a random then, they don't know anything about me.
I'm ok with this because I meet some new people talk to them a bit and its she every time. Of course that the nice ones. And the predudice ones? Well if its not ->-bleeped-<-, it would be some other part of my personality they choose to victamise me over anyway.
I have had some people I know say to me that they won't call me she antill srs and I'm in their words all said and don't, but after spending more time with me being me they all seemed to just start using she anyway.
But the overall thing that helps me cope with the general population is, the more I'm reffered to as male, the happyer I'm when reffered to as female :)
Passing feels awesome don't get me wrong but I just want to be me, and that being happy with my own apearence. When I pass to myself ill be able to get on with my life.
Yes, I would be so much happier if I liked the way I looked and passed to myself. That's still probably the hardest thing for me, so I understand exactly what you mean about having a positive assessment on your own appearance. Can't wait for the day I could look in the mirror and like what I see.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 29, 2014, 11:23:20 AM
Thanks everyone. I'm just kinda going through something. I don't like being unemployed and right now I feel very devoid of meaning or purpose in life. Like I'm just existing but without a reason. And rather than fill that gap of loneliness and meaningless, I just don't feel able to step forward at this time. So, I'm the creator of my own misery.
Hi
After reading the stuff you have been saying I just had to stop lurking and say something. So So So much of what you have said could have been written by me. Not just the quoted part, but almost everything. There are some key differences though. I recently realised that I derive far too much of my self worth from my interactions with my friends. Or rather, how much they seem to remember I exist. For the last 3 or so years it hasn't really been that much. I have always been sort of socially awkward after being bullied quite a bit. No idea what I did wrong at the time and still don't. But my reaction to it was to say 'well, I'm suffering the down sides of not fitting in without actually not fitting in. May as well have the upside of not trying to fit in and just be myself. Getting punched all the same'. As a result I didn't have many friends but I thought they were decent. Around 3 years ago something shiny caught their attention and they got quite consumed in it. I was too busy with uni. As a result they kind of 'forgot' I existed for a while and haven't really remember much since. It's not that they don't like me, it's just that I have to initiate almost everything except big things, which lots of others are invited to anyway. Being forgotten by all but 1 friend kind of screws you up. Having that happen on top of social anxiety... That's one half of how I ended up spending most of most days sitting and staring out of the window at nothing wondering why I'm so worthless and pathetic that this could happened. How did I think they were really decent friends? Why was I so stupid to think that?
The other half is that I have almost nothing of me left to give me any self worth, except those people. I don't have a job, although I can sometimes summon some small amount of energy to work on getting one (maybe I shouldn't though. Would I be able to maintain it as I am now?). But I used to have hobbies aside from gaming. I won't get into the gaming as it's long and this is going to be sorta long anyway, but it's good and bad. I still want to do these hobbies and there are several new things I want to try. But the depression has kind of numbed me. In the last year I've managed to claw back some emotions (I've cried more in the last year than the rest of my life and then some) but I still can't really feel motivation. Archery or painting or whatever takes effort. Energy. I have so little energy because I'm so depressed and negative about myself (I can spend hours thinking about how useless and worthless I've become) and don't experience the motivation need to put effort into the things I want to do. 90% of what I do now is habit.
But it is so easy to just carry on like that. It just requires doing nothing about it. It hurts. I cry. Sometimes randomly, sometimes to sleep. But that's just my life now. I can think about how crap it is and I can map out everything that is wrong and where I want to go, but if I don't act, just think and fester, it won't change. I have tried making changes but it always falls apart as my mood changes. There can be various reasons from 'friends' doing something to trigger it (without even knowing. They have no idea how I feel.) to the wind changing. When that happens I just go into survival mode and shut down for a while. Hours to a couple of days.
I mentioned all that partially for context and partially because I don't think there is anywhere else/another time I can say it.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 29, 2014, 11:23:20 AM
I feel very devoid of meaning or purpose in life. Like I'm just existing but without a reason. And rather than fill that gap of loneliness and meaningless
I'm kind of assuming that our experiences in this regard are the same. The bit about no work, hobbies, etc. Survival has a time and place, but it isn't enough. The loneliness and meaningless is JUST surviving and it (at least for me) has an almost addictive quality. Changing it to actually living won't be easy.
My current plan (which I WILL start tomorrow as it's 4:34, probs won't be till around 4:50/5:00 I finish this. And yes, that's AM. Sleep cycle is another screw up I haven't been able to correct despite numerous attempts over 4 years) is to write out a list of who I want to become. What sort of person, the interests and hobbies I want to explore. It doesn't have to be a perfect vision of the future, it should be messy. It's not going to be a bible I hold myself to, it's an exploration and exploration is imperfect (perfectionist here too. Holds me back a LOT but I have actually improved on that). Then, I will pick 1 thing from that list and do it. I might spend an hour shooting my bow again. Need to build my arm muscles back up. Then I will record what I did. The next day, I'll pick another thing from the list. Could be the same thing, but should probs be different. I'll do that and record that I did it. That way I'm doing SOMETHING to change myself without going too far beyond my bounds and breaking. Having the list written down means I can't just escape it or change what's on the list to rationalise away another day. When I next crash and feel like dirt and want to surrender to the depression and self abusive thought cycles about how worthless and useless and empty I am, I can look at that list and see that I CAN change and I AM changing and that it's a &#!~]{4 lie, that I'm not worthless. I'll hopefully build up some confidence and self worth independent of anyone else. As I do that, actually doing something to become a person again, to live, not just survive, the change and growth will become my new habit, my new life that replaces the old abuse and shows me that it was wrong.
At least I hope so. As I haven't tried it, it might not work and I might stay stuck surviving in misery.
Anyway. I hope something there can be of use or at least food for thought. Or I might have completely misunderstood what you meant and just ranted. Final thing, don't think that just because some of the stuff you have said is a tornado of misery means that it can't help. Actually seeing myself reflected in that prompted this post and latest attempt. It helps knowing that I'm not the only person messed up like this and that I'm not some unique waste. If it can happen to others, then I guess it's just human and I'm not such a monster.
Naomi
Hey Goldfish,
Thank you for sharing. Believe me, to know that there are people hearing my thoughts and connecting with them is VERY meaningful to me. It makes me feel less alone when other people are able to empathize or understand in their own way. I always hope my ramblings may do more good despite the fact that I constantly fear I cause others more harm than anything. Please feel free to continue sharing as well.
As for your feelings, I can obviously understand what that emptiness feels like. And it may not transfer through the internet but I really feel what you are saying. The emptiness, lack of meaning and loneliness is one of the toughest things to go through. In fact, sometimes I just consider ending everything rather than trying to see it through considering how insurmountable of a challenge it really is. But there is no pointing in self harm and quitting. To see that you are taking up the challenge again and knowing I'm part of that is something very special to me. Seriously, more special than words of praise or compliments. To know that maybe I had a positive impact on and connected with another human being in itself makes me feel less empty and gives me some meaning. Thank you for sharing this.
In any event, I'm sorry to see you struggling as well, but I'm glad you are going to strive for change. We all need to believe in ourselves even when we don't. It's a paradox but one that makes sense. Keep trying no matter the difficulty and keep us posted on your development. I'm interested in how it all turns out. :)
P.S. Welcome to Susan's. :)
Hi,
Passing blending in or being seen as a female not this kid no way ever, oh well tough biccies ,
Im a human being is that not enough do i need more do i have to ...look ... a certain
way before im accepted as normal. again tough biccies it wont happen.
Im allready female and dont look like a normal female should .
Well so far i'v been accepted as a member of 6 groups of well over 1000 members and they said they wonted me to be a part of them to work with them on 3 committee's, as a public relations person and help where ever im needed,
thats only a small part.
Being intersexed means im different look different yet dress as any other female,
yes i have male facial features, other wise im a normal looking woman.
What you have to do is get out join groups of people get known be interested in whats going on become a part of socity. put your self in the front line be a doer .
you know .... the old story .... = would you mind helping here or there start out doing little things so others will see .... oh she's a helper ... lets have her on board, next your a member oh would you like to be on our committee , oh wow.
You see where im coming from.
no excuses no but...but.... you just get on with life,
People will allways look at myself , im allso well known, so what i dont look quite like a female. that has not stopped people coming to me for help or just to say hi or say we know about you. or to make comments because i'v taken the time to dress nicely for any one of our do's ,
its not ...just... about what you look like its about you the person you for who you are. And i can be in work clothes look like dirt, and hot and sweaty from a job,
it'll allways be, Hi noeleena hows the job going or at a function hi noeleena you look nice. you see what this is about ,
Being accepted for who ...you are...
...noeleena...
Hi
It's good to know my emotional half rant had a good impact then. Wasn't sure how it would come across.
I sometimes think of 'that' as well. Not going to though. Last April a combination of fear/concern about the future (it was only about 5-6 weeks after discovering that transitioning was a think I could do, not just some mythical story. Destroyed any plans I had for what to do after uni), pressure due to recent problems with uni work and trying to do something positive about my depression (all that happened was I started to feel emotional pain again. Great) pretty much crippled me to the point where I could barely function. For pretty much all of April I spent vast amounts of time zoned out torturing myself with destructive thought cycles and self abuse. In an hour I might have been able to do 5 mins of work. Was like dreaming, in that when I was zoned out I didn't realise I had done it and so couldn't just shake it off. Had to wait till I 'woke up'. Was pretty sure I was going to fail my last year and waste the last 4 years + fees. Left with nothing to show but debt and no money to do anything about transitioning with. Went as far as to examine common ways people try to get out, create a fool proof plan and mentally rehearse it. In the end I decided that the whole point of transitioning was to have a chance at living and it would be sooo stupid to give in before trying. Uni also went far better than I dared dream, so that helped me recover some sanity. So although the thought still crosses my mind when I'm feeling my worst I just have to remember that the feelings will pass and there is still so much to do and so much progress has already been made.
Quote from: learningtolive on May 07, 2014, 11:28:45 PM
considering how insurmountable of a challenge it really is.
Insurmountable or just in dire need of chipping? Keep trying and I'm sure you'll get there too. Even if each try only makes a slight difference, it's still i slight bit closer and that should never be forgotten :)
Quote from: learningtolive on May 07, 2014, 11:28:45 PM
We all need to believe in ourselves even when we don't. It's a paradox but one that makes sense. Keep trying no matter the difficulty and keep us posted on your development. I'm interested in how it all turns out. :)
P.S. Welcome to Susan's. :)
Yeah, I know what you mean. Strangely enough, the stuff I just talked about serves to show me that I can cope with a lot. Hopefully the list/diary I mentioned should help too. Though I always feel really really awkward just making a thread/post just to say something about my experiences.
Thanks for the welcome. I'll try to be active. I do want to be, but just nervous so no promises :D