Hello together, i'm new to here.
My age is 37 and i'm MtF-transgender. Excuse me if my english is possibly not the best ...
I'm for over 17 month on female hormones now (and some cyproteron/CPA to block T). First time a was really, really happy to could do this step for my life. After waiting for long, long time i have to except that my body wouldnt change in a female way. The first thing after a few month was a softer skin around my body. My breast development reached a few centimeters only - but its not a "real" breast, its still masculine - no cup size, nothing. My further hope was the fat distribution or some msucle reduction - but the same here. No results after this 17 month - its all masculine, my arms, my legs - the neck, the chest. My body hair is growing in the same way and intensity as the years before.
A recognized a few changes in the face - mostly because of the soften skin but the face was getting slimmer and slimmer over the month. I ever thought with the hormones i get a little more fad in there and abundancy - no its very slim now and although my body weight raised for 4kg! So it still emphasizes my masculine facial features a lot. :'(
The whole HRT is a disaster to me. I'm very depressed every day of my life. The HRT was my hope to get a better life and now it become my fate. After having my SRS and a breast surgery (hopefully until 2015) i will dont have any money for a FFS or some fad surgery. Everytime i'm lookin to other timelines (f.e. here on susans) i feel the envy and the misery inside my heart. I changed my whole life and put all my power and money in my transition - and now, there is nothing a could call transition.
What could i do? I'm often think about suicide. :-\
Any other MtF here with bad HRT-results, disatisfaction about his all?
Lovely regards
Galaxy
Have you and your doctor performed blood test's lately to check your levels? Were they higher or lower than they should be?
Anyway, a big warm welcome Galaxy! I hope you enjoy the resources and support you will find here. We have a very safe and friendly place here so relax and dig right in. There is a forum for everyone's interest's. :)
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Yes, i'm monitored by one of the best clinic for transgenders. My blood leves of E2 and T are very good.
But anyway - nothing really happens ...
Yes, I've less than exciting results...
My levels are also great, I've tried a variety of different methods of taking E..
Do you have any nipple soreness, budding or any kind of sensations? If not something is wrong somewhere chemically or biologically. I have never seen one post here where there has not been at least sensation in the nipples after 3 months. What does the doctor say about this? Do you have a health issue such as diabetes, hyper or hypo thyroidism, cancer or any auto immune disease? ???
We want to stay 18 and look stunning till we are 80,but that is only in dreams.There is so much more then the cover.
The way you act/react and move say more than looks.Hormones will work,no doubt about that,only what the result will be is up to your genetics.But do look around and look at people you be surprised. also looking for movie stars without makeup will be a eyeopener.
Be happy BlonT
No, my nippels do nothing. The areola is around 20-25mm and only a bit bigger when i feel warmth (on the shower f.e.). My breast and the nippels look really masculine. Breast size is 8-9cm, was 4-5cm before my HRT.
The doctor and me tried and checked different things with blood tests and i'm healthy. We found nothing that prohibits a feminization completly. Ive a little hypo thyroidism and get thyroxin 50mg for that. Ive no cancer or something like that. I'm healthy and have my sports, eating "good things" ... my BMI is 21,5. My doctors have no idea whats wrong with the body.
I dont look beeing 18 or beeing a model.
I only want to be a woman and want to look like a woman.
And I get a 'B' cup after a year on ulcer medication....
Have they tried Spironolactone for your anti androgen yet?
yes, but its to mild the getting a female androgen range. My SHBG is very low, so CPA is the better choice.
Wow! I was a professional Paramedic for 28 years and your case has me baffled. The only thing I can think of is you have one active metabolism or something. :-\
E2-level is at 100pg/ml after 8h ... application is twice a day in the morning and in the evening. ???
Application how? Pills, gels, injections, patches or pellets? ???
That is not a very high E2 from what I remember.
I use gel int the morning and a pill+gel in the evening.
100 pg/ml is reached after 8 hours after application. I think the highest peak (after 1-2h) goes to 1000pg/ml.
What is your measuring methode?
I don't know for sure how accurate this information is, since Androcur isn't a medication that can be officially prescribed where I live and my endo didn't know much about it, but from what I have heard Androcur can significantly decrease the effectiveness of estrogen. It does this through a variety of mechanisms including desensitizing your body's estrogen receptors, and competing with estrogen since it is an artificial form of progesterone. I use it mainly because I don't get the side effects I did with spiro, and it keeps my androgen levels in the female range with a relatively low dose. But even then, my results so far have been somewhat mediocre (especially considering my genetics), and I'm working toward getting an orchiectomy right now so hopefully I will get get better results when I don't have to take it anymore. But like most things involved in hormone replacement therapy, results seem to vary a lot by the individual. I think there are a lot of cases where people taking Androcur have excellent results, and there really isn't any guarantee that finding an alternative would help at all. But at least in some cases, getting off Androcur does seem to make a pretty big difference.
I'm talked to my doctor to get Bicalutamid or as second choice Enantone. Its all offlabel and he needs time to decide it.
I know the things and (bad) stories about CPA and over the 17 month its a only thing with a little result. With CPA my body hair reduced and my hair on the head growed better. i got a to high prolactine, but the little results go back, too. At the moment CPA is my only possibility.
Thats all so hopeless :'(
I think my body isnt born to become a female being.
Quote from: galaxy on July 02, 2014, 06:21:55 AM
Thats all so hopeless :'(
I think my body isnt born to become a female being.
It is not hopeless. I don't know anyone who has had success with "E" gel. Try injectable or oral "E" before you give up. The right combinations of meds have just not been perfected in your case :)
Do nobody here uses E2-gel? Injectables are not availabe in my country. :-\
I use a split-combination with one pill and some gel. Should i switch to pills completely?
Most people say its better the take gel because of less E1 and risk of thrombose ...
For me gel is just a booster - with regular dose from patches. Nipples didn't grow much - and breasts did a bit and then shrank thanks to exercise. Still enough to be lightly lactating (high prolactin can be a side effect of too much exercise). And have a good shape with padded A cups.
I would see if they will give you sublingual pills. The risk of DVT is much less and sublingual is effective. I am just not a big fan of gels, but like Mel said it is a good booster. :)
Quote from: galaxy on July 02, 2014, 06:21:55 AM
Thats all so hopeless :'(
I think my body isnt born to become a female being.
Is an orchiectomy not an option? Or even SRS if you feel like thats what you want? Don't give up hope. I know it's incredibly frustrating to want things to happen overnight and then end up waiting for years, but the truth is sometimes it really does take that long to get the full results from HRT. Especially if you are starting it later in life. Personally, my philosophy is, I am going to have a feminine body no matter what it takes. Even if it takes ten years of HRT, thousands of dollars in surgery and other procedures, or (yes I have seriously considered this) freezing my body until medical science can give me the body I want, I am going to get there somehow. But, I have some pretty serious dysphoria issues, so yea... Anyway, sometimes it helps to just have achievable goals your can work toward to keep yourself focused and to not get too depressed about the things you can't change. Right now my next big goal is to get an orchiectomy (which I am close to) and after that it will probably be voice surgery (my voice is already the most passable thing about me, but it just gets too strained the way I currently use it and I'm worried I may damage my vocal chords in the long term if I don't get it). Is there anything you think you could work towards that might make you feel better about things while you give HRT time to work?
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on July 02, 2014, 06:48:46 AM
I would see if they will give you sublingual pills. The risk of DVT is much less and sublingual is effective. I am just not a big fan of gels, but like Mel said it is a good booster. :)
Yea, I didn't get much of a result with gel either. I was only using it when I was on low dose HRT and wasn't really ready for major body changes to start happening, so in that sense it worked well for me. But as soon as I went full dose I switched to patches, and I would like to eventually switch to pellets since I have heard so many good things.
I plan my SRS in the fall of 2015. Do you think it will solve any of my problems?
You will not have testicles after SRS which just means you will not need an anti androgen, but other than that no. You have to find a better delivery or dosage for "E" that will feminize you.
I think that if it allows you to stop taking Androcur it should help, but as Jessica said you should also look for a more effective method of taking estrogen because using gel is probably also limiting your progress.
What is the option to Androcur?
As i said Spiro was to mild. My SHBG is mostly under 20 nmol/l, so i get to much free androgens without a good blocker.
What is the option to gel?
I tried patches over a few month and felt no better effect. Actually i use PILL + GEL. Should i try to use pills only? Injections are not available here.
Quote from: galaxy on July 02, 2014, 08:11:59 AM
What is the option to Androcur?
As i said Spiro was to mild. My SHBG is mostly under 20 nmol/l, so i get to much free androgens without a good blocker.
GNRH agonists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonadotropin-releasing_hormone_agonist) would be one option, but they are rarely used for transgender HRT due to the cost. There are other options, but I have only really researched Androcur and spiro since those are the medications I have taken, and I don't think the alternatives would work as well as Androcur for controlling your androgen levels anyway. Honestly, I think you may just want to be patient and stay on Androcur until you are able to have SRS.
Quote from: galaxy on July 02, 2014, 08:11:59 AM
What is the option to gel?
I tried patches over a few month and felt no better effect. Actually i use PILL + GEL. Should i try to use pills only? Injections are not available here.
A month isn't really giving the patch a fair chance. Any noticeable changes from HRT would take much longer than a month to become apparent. And you would also need to make sure the dose your were getting on the patch was high enough, since dosage can make a big difference in terms of effectiveness. You could try just taking pills, but I don't really think that is the best approach. Pills are also known to be one of the less effective methods of HRT, and they can be dangerous too, with the risk of blood clotting and DVT. You can take them sublingually, which reduces the risks and increases their potency somewhat, but also makes your levels much less stable which can lead to emotional instability. Patches/injections/pellets seem to be the methods of HRT that get the best results, but even then, it varies a lot and there are no guarantees. If I were you, I would try the patches again (maybe at a higher dose?) while you wait for SRS, and also look into pellets and see if they are available in your area.
Here in germany about 80% take estradiol gel - this is the prefered methode from doctors. I know many people are satisfied with the gel. My blood level on the other hand is really good with 100pg/ml after 8 hours. I mean - there is enough E2 in the blood.
Patches are really rare. I had it about a few month - a few, not 1 only month. I think its nearly the same effect as the gel and the estradiol must go thorugh the skin. Thats may the reason, dont know. Injections and pellets are not available here - ive to buy in other countries and this could be very difficult it think. Maybe i could injections in a few weeks via a friend of mine. I'm not sure ... but the only option is pill or gel/patch at the moment.
Quote from: galaxy on July 02, 2014, 09:04:58 AM
Here in germany about 80% take estradiol gel - this is the prefered methode from doctors. I know many people are satisfied with the gel. My blood level on the other hand is really good with 100pg/ml after 8 hours. I mean - there is enough E2 in the blood.
You know, so much of the evidence is about effectiveness is anecdotal, and there isn't enough good research for anyone to say for sure what will be the most effective form of HRT for someone. All you can say for sure is that if something isn't effective, it may be worth it to at least try the alternatives. Levels aren't the only factor, because sometimes the way your levels change over time can have a significant impact on how your body responds to hormones. Estrogen levels with pills/gel are not very stable, which I think can confuse the body and inhibit certain changes (not based on actual scientific research, just my theory). With patches estrogen levels should stay relatively stable, and with injections the levels will drop over time, but on a much longer time scale (somewhat like a natural menstrual cycle, but shorter). What your body will respond to best is difficult to say without actually trying it.
Quote from: galaxy on July 02, 2014, 09:04:58 AM
Patches are really rare. I had it about a few month - a few, not 1 only month. I think its nearly the same effect as the gel and the estradiol must go thorugh the skin. Thats may the reason, dont know. Injections and pellets are not available here - ive to buy in other countries and this could be very difficult it think. Maybe i could injections in a few weeks via a friend of mine. I'm not sure ... but the only option is pill or gel/patch at the moment.
Is your friend properly trained to do this sort of injection? I would be extremely cautious of doing something like this without proper medical supervision. I know you want to get the best results possible with HRT, but injections can be seriously dangerous if not done correctly, and it's just not something worth risking your life over.
Quote from: galaxy on July 02, 2014, 06:21:55 AM
I'm talked to my doctor to get Bicalutamid or as second choice Enantone. Its all offlabel and he needs time to decide it.
I know the things and (bad) stories about CPA and over the 17 month its a only thing with a little result. With CPA my body hair reduced and my hair on the head growed better. i got a to high prolactine, but the little results go back, too. At the moment CPA is my only possibility.
Thats all so hopeless :'(
I think my body isnt born to become a female being.
I am on bicalutamide I find it much more effective than spiro. I cannot compare it to CPA because I have never be on that. I would think that if CPA has reduced body hair and such that it is doing its job and blocking Testosterone. I wonder if your metabolism is high enough to simply need a larger than average level of estradiol.
Thanks for that advice. I would prefer Bicalutamid.
I don't really have any good suggestions or anything, but I wanted to let you know you're not alone. I'm currently at 10 months of HRT and aside from a bit softer skin and minimal breast growth, nothing much has happened with my body. It's hard to keep going with so little progress, and I get especially demotivated from seeing how far my trans sisters have come in a much shorter period of time. Looking into a mirror just ruins my day. My levels are, like your, also fine, so technically there's nothing wrong, but yet nothing is happening. I am on Spiro and Progynova.
:police: Just a reminder that no dosages are allowed in postings under the TOS. :police:
Suprefact is the best of the best for t-blocker and way safer than cyproterone.
I have been on Spironolactone, Cyproterone and now Suprefact.
Nothing compares to the Suprefact, at least for me (active ingrediant is Buserelin).
I also have had poor luck with estrogen. I'm age 28, but started in my early-mid 20s. No major decrease in body hair (hair shafts are a bit thinner), I did have great skin results, body shape changed only slightly, no fat redistribution but some minor gains on my thighs. Unimpressive breasts, maybe a B cup, but borderline. My face is still unpassable, though I am well on my way to FFS. My muscles shrank down, but it took years. My estrogen level is 158 pg/ml (506 pmol/L) and my testosterone level is 30. These are really good numbers for the average adult female.
Some times, we have poor luck -- or at least, that's how we define it. I think people expect far too much from HRT, seeing great results from other people. Those other people usually had great bone structure to begin with and/or had good luck with hair/breast genetics. They have also been on HRT for a long time, in many cases, where the body looks great -- it can take around 10 years before your bones soften a bit and muscles completely atrophy, though there are significant gains in the first few three or four years.
The consistently major change from HRT for people seems to be skin softness and complexion. Which, frankly, is probably the most important thing -- it's a huge, huge gender marker. Body shape and fat distribution can be helped a bit with exercise. Body hair can be removed. Breast implants are not terribly expensive, compared to most surgeries. Facial feminization surgery is an option if you have a way to save money.
I really do know your pain, but it helps tremendously to be open to the idea that more work comes after HRT. It does for the vast majority of trans women. It took me about four years before I really felt like HRT had put a dent in my body. It takes time, very, very frustrating time. I promise, you are not alone -- and it can get better with a bit of hard work. Please give it a bit more time and consider working towards extra solutions before you completely give up.
hrt is different for each of us. Our meds will vary based on our genetics and other physiological differences. You should really see a doctor who specializes in transgender patients to determine what quantity of meds, and which meds, will work best with your body. Anytime someone tells you what dosages you should use are simply basing that information on what is working for them or very generic info on what seems to work in general for something close to a majority. Thing is, your meds have a recommended dosage which should be followed for a few months, after which time you may decide to deviate based on results. It is, however, wise to get medical tests to determine changes and levels of changes in your body chemistry, which can be used to better determine what quantity of specific drugs will work best for you.
Quote from: Elyra on July 02, 2014, 04:12:55 PM
Looking into a mirror just ruins my day. My levels are, like your, also fine, so technically there's nothing wrong, but yet nothing is happening.
Thats the whole thing. You wake up, look in the mirror and the day is ruined. Same procdedure every day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. That hunts you, brokes your soul and your heart for that long time. You see the results of woman startet at the same time with you and they have breasts after a year, a A cup, a B cup - a nice body, a nice face, long hair ... and i? Ive nothing. Today i had a talk to my surgeon for my augmentation. I never dreamed of that and now i will get implants :-\
Quote from: Sybil on July 02, 2014, 10:12:12 PM
I really do know your pain, but it helps tremendously to be open to the idea that more work comes after HRT. It does for the vast majority of trans women. It took me about four years before I really felt like HRT had put a dent in my body. It takes time, very, very frustrating time. I promise, you are not alone -- and it can get better with a bit of hard work. Please give it a bit more time and consider working towards extra solutions before you completely give up.
Of course, it took a lot of time and i'm able to wait ... for results, but its frustraiting to wait for nothing. Times goes by and nothing happens, not today and not in 10 years. This fact dominates my whole transition since startet HRT. Ive really strong suicide tendencies, a attempt a few weeks ago ... i dont can waste my time for waiting for any utopian things, you know. I will took my money and "repair" these things i can finance. Thats all i can do and i dont know if it will satisfy my pain.