Ok, so basically, this is a bit personal, but im sure others have been through similar. Before i transitioned, my body was fairly male looking, while that hurt, individual parts didnt scream 'ugh' at me. since ive transitioned, and my body is fairly female now. to the extent where showering has now become painful, as is just any time naked. i hate seeing my genetals. its scary, and foreign now. it doenst belong, and it looks like a jokeshop toy someone glued onto me while i was passed out or something for a laugh. and it almost feels that while my dysphoria is lessened with regards to my now having a largely female body. its worse with regards to that area... any one else felt this way? or im i just bonkers?
R :police:
Don't worry about it, your not bonkers.
Sarah L.
I can relate to everything you are saying as I have been experiencing a similar feeling for the last few months when I am in the bath. Its like I look down and there is a part of me that is just so out of place, I have lost count of the number of times I have gotten out of the bath in tears recently. So you aint bokers at all hon !!
Becky
xx
I used to experience the same thing, and as you say, the ironic part of it all is that the more feminized your body becomes, the greater your disgust is towards *that thing* It's a psychological torment which seems to worsen everytime you are faced with the realization that *it* DOESN'T belong there. You just feel that *it* looks totally wrong in a woman's body. I know. I understand more than what you think, and you're definitely not bonkers, hon! You have to be strong (even stronger than what you are now) and find ways to do the normal things people do without acknowledging that *it* is there.
:icon_hug:
tink :icon_chick:
Quote from: Rachael on July 26, 2007, 04:22:28 PM
Ok, so basically, this is a bit personal, but im sure others have been through similar. Before i transitioned, my body was fairly male looking, while that hurt, individual parts didnt scream 'ugh' at me. since ive transitioned, and my body is fairly female now. to the extent where showering has now become painful, as is just any time naked. i hate seeing my genetals. its scary, and foreign now. it doenst belong, and it looks like a jokeshop toy someone glued onto me while i was passed out or something for a laugh. and it almost feels that while my dysphoria is lessened with regards to my now having a largely female body. its worse with regards to that area... any one else felt this way? or im i just bonkers?
R :police:
It's not just you.
It got worse in transition.
The longer I went living full time as a woman, the harder it became to match the feelings, emotions with the body I had.
I just wanted it to end, to become whole.
Buffy
I don't think you're bonkers. Reading your post I realize I feel pretty much the same way about my breasts--don't like looking at them, can't stand to have them unbound and visible, etc. They make me acutely uncomfortable. I'm less worried about the genitals, but come to think of it, I just pretty much ignore them these days, don't even look at them.
As for the bonkers part, no. I thought I was alone in this world until I realized there's good people like yourselves. I wanted to "chop my bits off", but I found out they hold a great future. Corny, I know. But, I have to think positive.
Rachael
You are not bonkers. I have felt this way for a very long time now. You have to develope a very fivid imagination that it is something else down there. I like Gina's idea. It is doner material. That is an excelent way to look at it.
You are not alone
Deb
Quote from: Rachael on July 26, 2007, 04:22:28 PM
and it almost feels that while my dysphoria is lessened with regards to my now having a largely female body. its worse with regards to that area... any one else felt this way? or im i just bonkers?
Quote from: Kate on July 27, 2007, 09:02:59 AM
Quote from: asiangurliee on July 27, 2007, 01:38:27 AM
QuoteAfter being on hormones, I am becoming more disturbed about the sight of my penis.
Same here. I figure:
1) As my body morphs into a female shape, the penis is more and more incongruent
2) As my sexuality begins to seem more and more hopeful of expression, I'd like the correct genitals for it
~Kate~
thanks guys. this has been bugging me for a while now. Its infuriateing, and i know its going to finally make me happy, but i cant think of it as a 'little fellow' its a growth that can be cosmetically altered. Im starting to feel dirty, and disgusting, i feel like a faker even more. im a 'chick with a d*ck.' and that im invading, its upsetting to think people could see me as some dirty faker... and its scary. Its a dirty little secret. and its a constant knife in my ribs. Your right, its alien, but i cant cut it off, as i know i need it to be happy, (how ironic).
well, actually, it is that part of me, without it, id be very happy, even if it was a blank space left. id be content at large, because id not need to touch the damn thing, clothes would fit me right. i could live without sex. and be happy, the object itself makes me feel a faker, every part of me, besides it, is female, and i know this. my crotch defys my happyness. and it will for many years.
your lucky, getting surgery so soon. ill maybe get it inside a decade if im lucky....
Let me see now. I can't count how many times I have come close to cutting the thing off. Then I come to my senses and realise there are people out there that could do a much better job Than I.
Deb
yeah, i realise i have to let someone else do it. but it hasnt stopped me dreaming of doing it. i can safely say i hate this thing, in its current form, its not part of me. physically attached or not. DO NOT WANT.
R :police:
I never really thought of chopping it off, way to squeemish for that, I'd faint at the first sight of blood. Its when I have to tuck that "thing" and the .... sweating during the summer that I want to squash it like a bug, I just hate bugs ;D.
I know I'm at least 1.5 years away from getting it rearranged so, hey, tolerated it, is DA word till then, no point crying over shrivelled nuts (sorry for the graphic images HAHA).
Quote from: Rachael on July 26, 2007, 04:22:28 PM
Ok, so basically, this is a bit personal, but im sure others have been through similar. Before i transitioned, my body was fairly male looking, while that hurt, individual parts didnt scream 'ugh' at me. since ive transitioned, and my body is fairly female now. to the extent where showering has now become painful, as is just any time naked. i hate seeing my genetals. its scary, and foreign now. it doenst belong, and it looks like a jokeshop toy someone glued onto me while i was passed out or something for a laugh. and it almost feels that while my dysphoria is lessened with regards to my now having a largely female body. its worse with regards to that area... any one else felt this way? or im i just bonkers?
R :police:
I feel that way now. Except for those bumps on my chest, the rest of my body can pass for male. And I don't have any issue at all with my genitals.
My tits are gorgeous, but do look out of place. Now don't mistake me for those delusional, IS obsessed people who go on about having a female skull, female knee caps, female arms, etc
But there's really nothing to be dysphoric about on my body except my tits and menses (which are very irregular and the bleeding only lasts about a day and a half when it does come, so it's really not that big a deal).
I'm well made, can build muscle easily if I have the notion, no hips, no female fat patterns, etc
I'm not bothered at all by not being hairy, and I've known guys with little to no hair on their bodies who weren't pressed about it either.
I have a really high libido, so the only body dysphoria are those full round things attached to me.
Is it really that hard to see why I'm not pressed about HRT?
To me, HRT is just a passing aid, as it will make my face less femmy and deepen my voice.
So I'm really pretty much in the same position. My tits are the only thing that bothers me. I don't like seeing them in the shower.
Quote from: regina on July 27, 2007, 06:27:42 PM
I wanna hear the emotional basis to it, not some theory, please.
Sick of my theories are ya?
Quote from: regina on July 27, 2007, 06:27:42 PM
If I were ftm, at the very least, I'd want a metoidioplasty (say it fast, 5 times).
And sew up this sweet silken flesh? Place artificial nuts in? I'd be mad.
Quote from: regina on July 27, 2007, 06:27:42 PM
Quote from: Nero on July 27, 2007, 06:07:37 PM
And I don't have any issue at all with my genitals.
Not being judgmental, but why? Practical issues aside (money, medical complexity), why don't you have an issue with your genitals? If I were ftm, at the very least, I'd want a metoidioplasty (say it fast, 5 times). I'd want to walk around a men's locker room and not be having to conceal my vagina, or to go in a hot tub or be nekkid and be totally cool about what people see. I'm not saying your choice isn't the healthier one, but I just don't believe I could do that. I wanna hear the emotional basis to it, not some theory, please.
Several reasons:
1. The only bodily dysphoria I've ever had centered on my tits and having menses. I've just never cared that I had a [meow] instead of a penis.
The only reason I'd want a penis: I never would've been labeled female.
The only time I've ever noticed the absence of a penis is sometimes in the heat of the moment when I get the urge to throw someone against the pool table or something and ravish them and remember I can't. That would be nice.
Other than that, I don't care.
2. Sex is part of my life. Pleasure is part of my life. Sensation is part of my life. I'd be mad to want all that delicious rose tinted silk sewn up. I like it. I need it. It's vital. Worth far more than walking naked around a locker room.
And why would I limit myself to clitoral pleasure when I can have the other also? Wouldn't that be kind of stupid?
3. Being in a hot tub or walking around naked - I wouldn't really do that with people I'm not close to. And I'm really doubting I could be close to someone and not have them know my history. I can't stand for people not to know me.
I've had people question my transness because of this. That's not my problem. They feel how they do about their genitals and I feel how I do about mine. Nowhere in the SOC does it list genital loathing as a requirement.
Why would I loathe something that gives me pleasure?
Emotional enough for ya doll?
Quote from: regina on July 27, 2007, 06:27:42 PM
Quote from: Nero on July 27, 2007, 06:07:37 PM
And I don't have any issue at all with my genitals.
Not being judgmental, but why?
What happened to that sentiment? I can't believe I was foolish enough to think you asked out of genuine curiousity.
I told you the same as I would tell a friend. Next time I'll remember that any personal questions are traps and intended to attack and discredit me.
Quote from: regina on July 28, 2007, 01:55:42 AM
QuoteThat's not my problem. They feel how they do about their genitals and I feel how I do about mine.
No, it's not a problem at all, but I can see why you feel the endless need to defend yourself (and to attack a lot of other ftms).
When have I ever needed to defend myself? I have opinions. I state them. There's no law against that.
Furthermore, I never turn any discussion into a personal attack against a person.
Do you honestly think if I doubted myself, if I doubted my manhood, or my status as trans, I would post how I felt about my genitals on a public forum?
Seriously, do you? It would be much easier to lie and claim to have severe penis envy, loathe my parts, and claim to whine all day long about it.
And since when have I attacked any other ftms? If I'm remembering correctly, all my debates (not attacks) were with transwomen. I don't recall
ever debating any subject with an ftm. Not on this board. On ftm exclusive boards, yes.
Quote from: regina on July 28, 2007, 01:55:42 AM
And I can understand why some people, who have, perhaps, a more intense form of body dyphoria, would be upset that you turn around and say they aren't really men. I'm not saying who's right or wrong, rather than I can understand why they're upset with you.
Who's upset with me? Even when debating issues with other ftms, I've never had another ftm get 'upset' with me.
I never told another ftm he wasn't really a man. Ever. Nor implied it. I've been attacked elsewhere by ftms because of my bisexuality. Threatened even. Had one post my profile and location on the board for everyone to see and I got many threats of harm to my person. To me that is disgusting and homophobic.
If you're talking about my questioning whether some 'trans' people are in reality the gender they claim to be, yes I do question that. I believe there are ftms who may not in fact be male, and mtfs who may not in fact be female but want to be for whatever reason.
Sorry, but I just don't believe that every single person who transitions is truly their target gender. And I'm not the only person who shares this belief.
More intense form of body dysphoria?
More intense form of body dysphoria? I'm not going to go into what happened to me during puberty, but I really can't see how a more intense body dysphoria is possible. You're not in my body, you can't possibly know what I've went through and go through regarding it. So don't even go there. Don't dare patronize me.
Since when is genital loathing the measure of dysphoria? Isn't it enough that I have tits like some nightmare out of Playboy? That women constantly lament about being jealous of them and insist they can't be real?
If they were flat or ugly or something, I'd never have to hear about them.
As far as the rest, I'm sorry, I just wasn't given an overly female body. If I was small, had an hourglass figure, and fat on my hips, booty and thighs, I probably wouldn't be able to stand myself.
As far as height, my grandfather and uncles etc were my height. With the exception of my father, I grew up around short men my height. So, excuse me if I'm not distressed enough about that to wear elevator shoes like some transmen do.
As far as body hair - I've known guys with little to no body hair who couldn't care less and I've known guys who actually wished they were less hairy.
Not every man wants to be a huge, hairy, hulking brute, ya know.
Quote from: regina on July 28, 2007, 01:55:42 AMThe reality of life is, if you're choosing to not do something (eg. being nude) because there would be repercussions from it as a non-op, that is affecting your life and, in some way, limiting experiences you can have as a male and not as an out transgender male.
Quote from: regina on July 28, 2007, 01:55:42 AM
Quote3. Being in a hot tub or walking around naked - I wouldn't really do that with people I'm not close to. And I'm really doubting I could be close to someone and not have them know my history. I can't stand for people not to know me.
Do you really feel like everyone you would go in a hot tub with has to know you're trans? That might be too much input. Again, just speaking for myself, I save that information for my lover and, perhaps, some other people I wish to be emotionally intimate with. So if you're in a locker room, you're going to wear a little towel around your waist all the time. Very prim. And what if you were arrested or in need of emergency medical attention (it happens)? For me, reading about Tyra Hunter had a big impact on how long I could even tolerate being non-op just from a purely practical sense. To me, living socially as a women includes a lot more than sex and friends. It extends to a very extensive range of situations in which people would encounter me as female. (obviously, not being able to give birth, have a period and certain other things means I can't share in all of those situations) but I'm going as far as I can go and then I'll stop.
What became of your living in the ftm mecca of the world? I seriously doubt you know very many ftms. If you did, you would know that the majority do not get bottom surgery. Few get it. Most do not see it as worth it at this time.
In case you weren't aware, even an ftm who had bottom surgery could not pass muster in these situations.
It's the very very rare phalloplasty that even looks decent (and those still wouldn't hold up to scrutiny), most look like a frankenstein experiment.
Metaiodoplasty is nothing more than the guy's enlarged clitoris (from HRT) shaped a bit and a fake sac put in.
This doesn't pass muster. There would still be scrutiny and questions. Even the smallest dicks are not that small.
At the most he'd pass as a male with a severely abnormal organ or an intersexed male. So no, everyone wouldn't just 'be cool' with what they see. Transmen who opt for genital surgery are really in about the same boat as those who don't.
I'm glad that transwomen have better surgical options and the opportunity to live fully and completely as women.
But you don't have to rub it in our faces that we don't have the same options for stealth as you do.
I'll bet you just ruined some transguy's day and made him feel hopeless about ever having a full life as a man, with all your goings on about how great and normal your life will be after surgery.
I've had enough of this for now. I'll address the remainder of your manifesto later.
Quote from: regina on July 28, 2007, 11:31:57 AM
Oh Nero, it's not a trap and it wasn't meant to hurt you. If I did, then I'm sorry, really sorry. All I'm doing is expressing genuine confusion over the different parts of you, that's all. But if I made you feel lousy, then that was wrong. I don't understand it when you talk about the intensity of being 'primary' and on the other hand, being 'okay' with certain aspects of your body? Can you understand how people, even though who don't mean you harm, can have that confusion. That doesn't mean I want to deny your manhood or your story or who you know yourself to be.
Believe me, I get the inevitability of the limitations of surgery, but I'm trying to speak emotionally now, not practically. Don't you think I wish there were some surgery that could make me shorter or make my shoulders narrower or my hips wider? Don't you think I wish I could give birth? Don't you think I wish there were a magic pill that could make my voice perfect without spending hundreds of hours practicing and still feeling unhappy about the results? Those are all things I've thought about all my life, and I'm never going to get them... but that doesn't make me want them less, it doesn't.
And it definitely wasn't intended as a manifesto, but sometimes I'm an idiot. What can I say?
still care about you,
Gina M.
You came off like an evil harpy descending from the sky to devour me. I could hear the room echoing with your wicked laughter.
Excuse me, I'll never call you doll again. Don't know if I've mentioned this before, but I have poor social skills with girls.
I call just about every girl 'doll' or 'sweet lady' or such because that's what a favorite relative of mine always called females. I didn't know it was offensive, never had anyone complain. Well, he was born in a different time and place, I guess.
As far as the rest of your post, I would've given anything to look like, to
be my father. He's 6'0, strong, handsome, gorgeous bright sapphire eyes, deep rich voice, full beard, etc And knowing that was not to be hurt very much. When I was 16, I saw his senior class picture. It was my own face staring back at me. I was looking at myself, at the young man I should've been. I felt cheated and wept for days.
I don't remember consciously doing it, but somehow I quit hurting over what would never be, and decided it wasn't so bad that I was short like my grandfather, that I had a build like him, that though he was not handsome, he was lovely in his way.
About the genitals, it just was never about the genitals for me. It was about being a girl when I was a boy. Not about having a penis or a p ussy.
I am 'primary' unless you want to count my bisexuality as proof I'm not. Which I think is disgusting and homophobic.
When I was 14, I had my first intimacy with a boy (not intercourse). (Girls were totally out of the question, as no girl would even talk with me let alone date me. Not to mention I was terrified of them.)
It was great. Why should I feel ashamed of what I was born with?
Why can't you see the beauty in a displaced man allowing the pleasure from the parts he was given to soothe his wounded soul? Why do you mock that?
i think your a bit ott here gina.
Nero feels hes male, so many topics have decided on here,t hat a man is a man, and woman a woman regardless of thier genetal area. If he feels he can live with that part of himself, good for him. afterall, its his transition, not yours, and his being primary is his age of transition and realisation or whatever the damn fireball of a topic decided. The point is, dysphoria is multi leveled. and if hes happy, surely thats all that sodding matters?
R :police:
I think Nero made a good point.
If a transsexual woman said she is keeping her penis and she enjoys the pleasure it gives her, I can't imagine the names people would use to call her and the labels that will be put on her.
I know the bottom surgery for trans guy is less satisfactory, but I think the end point is that one can enjoy their genital and/or live with it even if it doesn't match with their mind or the rest of their body without being judged that they are not really female or male.
Nero has a mangina *giggles*
edit: Gina, im 20, not 13, but cheers!
R :police:
Quote from: Rachael on July 28, 2007, 02:39:11 PM
i think your a bit ott here gina.
Nero feels hes male, so many topics have decided on here,t hat a man is a man, and woman a woman regardless of thier genetal area. If he feels he can live with that part of himself, good for him. afterall, its his transition, not yours, and his being primary is his age of transition and realisation or whatever the damn fireball of a topic decided. The point is, dysphoria is multi leveled. and if hes happy, surely thats all that sodding matters?
R :police:
Quote from: asiangurliee on July 28, 2007, 02:43:54 PM
I think Nero made a good point.
If a transsexual woman said she is keeping her penis and she enjoys the pleasure it gives her, I can't imagine the names people would use to call her and the labels that will be put on her.
I know the bottom surgery for trans guy is less satisfactory, but I think the end point is that one can enjoy their genital and/or live with it even if it doesn't match with their mind or the rest of their body without being judged that they are not really female or male.
I agree with you girls. Why do some people see a problem with one's acceptance of what they have? It's not like we
chose what parts we got.
What about a woman who for medical reasons could not have SRS, so instead of crying about it for the rest of her life decided to embrace the parts she did have? There are TS in that situation ya know. Should they just cry about it every day?
In my situation I embraced what I had at a young age, because I knew I could never do anything about it.
Of course I wished I had been born male with a penis and the ability to sire children and all of that, but that's a fairytale. The reality is I was born with a p ussy. Should I have just lied down and died? Cried about it every day?
Refused to have sex?
whats more important, sireing a child, or being its father?
ill MIGHT be able to have kids, but its unlikely. but ill still be a mother someday. thats a fact.
Quote from: regina on July 29, 2007, 01:17:01 AM
QuoteOf course I wished I had been born male with a penis and the ability to sire children and all of that, but that's a fairytale. The reality is I was born with a p ussy. Should I have just lied down and died? Cried about it every day?
Refused to have sex?
Your regret is not a fiction nor a fairytale. Your regret is as real as any man's penis. No one needs to be ashamed of or justify their regrets nor view them as a sign of weakness... quite the opposite. Nero, I've realized that one thing that bugged me about your earlier posts is that, rather than saying "I have regrets, deep painful sadness about what I can't change in my body, but I'm going to make the best of it." You chose to, instead, to put the armor up and ridicule other's choices in that direction. I find you a more compelling man when you admit your regrets and be honest about your feelings as you did one or two posts ago rather than barking at the world in defense of your manhood. Yeah, the barking is something a lot of guys do and it's something I find really unattractive.
Well, like I said earlier, it just was never a genitals thing with me. I just never disliked my p ussy. The only thing I was upset about was that having it instead of a penis meant I wasn't a boy. When I was a toddler I had this thing about compulsively 'messing with it' because it felt good (I guess you could call it innocent pre masturbation), to the horror of my folks. So I just never bore it any ill will.
My deep sorrow and regret was because I wanted the whole package and that included the penis, the ability to impregnate a wife and have my own offspring. So it just never was about the genitals for me. I don't know why. It was just about being a man and everything that entails.
I do deeply regret and have much sorrow about the fact that I'll always be a woman to society because of the genital thing. That does hurt very much and likely will always hurt.
I also regret that I will never be able to fill a woman with my own flesh.
But those two things pretty much sum it up.
I regret not having a penis for what it means, represents, and would like to use it on a partner. That's as far as it goes.
It's just not the severe chronic pain and disgust my tits cause me. I mean I want to puke when I'm changing or showering. And the vagina (ugh, I hate that word), I apparently liked at a young age, so why? I don't know.
There is another big thing about me that colors my feelings on physical alterations in general.
I don't like anything on me that's not mine, that's artificial. Removing my tits is one thing, but having something fake on me I'd be uncomfortable with. This is why I would never wear a packer in my pants. I mean that's fine for guys who like to do that, but I just would feel silly cause it's not really there, I'd feel like I was misrepresenting myself because I don't have a bulge down there and I just really don't see the point of packing.
And yes, I did wrestle with the hormone choice. I'm not at all excited at the thought of sprouting hair everywhere, and I was initially very worried and obsessing over the fat distribution. Ftms kept saying their gut expanded in size and pretty much all my weight goes there and I have a big gut now which is very noticeable (I wasn't always fat, I was fit a few years back), so I was having visions of it doubling in size and stuff. And I was panicking and annoying everybody with endless T threads which they kept trying to answer (I'm sure Dennis remembers this :laugh:)
In the end, I knew I had to take T to pass, and I would be on it right now and scheduling surgery if not for unresolved medical issues (I've been seriously ill since December). Anyone who thinks I'm making excuses not to make physical alterations knows where to go. And no, it's not the reason for my views on HRT. I've had those views since way before I got sick.
When people rub the fact that I'm not on hormones yet and they are (such as you, MEW/Melissa, and another poster I smited) that's rubbing salt into a very sore spot. I want to get on with my life, I can't help that I can't.
Now you and that other poster were not aware of my situation, but MEW/Melissa knows full well about my illness. Going over and over the fact that she's on HRT and I am not at least 5 separate posts was hitting below the belt and just plain mean.
Quote from: Rachael on July 28, 2007, 03:42:07 PM
whats more important, sireing a child, or being its father?
ill MIGHT be able to have kids, but its unlikely. but ill still be a mother someday. thats a fact.
i dont think i can ever have my own biological kids, its genetically impossible.
QuoteNot being judgmental, but why? Practical issues aside (money, medical complexity), why don't you have an issue with your genitals? If I were ftm, at the very least, I'd want a metoidioplasty (say it fast, 5 times).
Ah yes, the fundamental difference betwixt m2f's and f2m's. The former have the expectation of a positive outcome regarding the crotch, while the latter brook no such ambitions, and so do not suffer from a lack of expectations in most cases. Which is why I think a lot of body dysphoria is related to the medical fields pioneering work over the last 50 years. My guess is that someday, if the medico's do find a way to create male genitalia [i.e. neo-penis], that the expectations will run just as high for the f2m's and their body dysphoria will skyrocket too.
In the old days, people lived with what they were born with, except for the rare few that got mangled early on, mostly m2f's. The modern advent of SRS has changed all that forever. But what would this generation have doen if that option was not there? Most would learn to live with it, and fewer would transition. The new surgical outcome is creating "a problem" much greater than in the past, because of raised expectations. I would also hazard to guess, that less people would feel suicidal or try to commit suicide if the modern treatments were not available. Why? Because they wouldn't know any other option was available. The possibility of not being able to have something that is now available actually creates more angst than previously. That is my guess.
if i could afford it, id get an orchi asap, but for the fact its likely more expensive thangetting AAs till grs...
I won't get an orchi if I am planning on having a SRS.
I am not planning on having any surgery anytime soon. I am in my phase of exploring and living as a female. I wouldn't have surgery unless everything else looks female enough and I really hate my genitals.
im becoming less of a fan, thing is, like i said earlier, as i feminise, that bit sticks out more, and the more i become whole, the more it becomes a problem :(
Rachel, I can totally relate to you (as I see many other people can). I didn't realize how disjointed I'd feel with boy bits stuck to a girl body. I've been having a very hard time with it recently. It is stressful to have it there.
but how long would £500 worth of spiro last? 2 years? longer? less?
20 months on my current price for spiro, so possibly worth it if you werent gettting grs faster than that.
but off topic slightly :P
R :police:
Well, it depends where you buy the spiro, at my price, I've got the usual TS spiro dose of XXX, 500 pounds would last 70 * 25 days!! = 1750 days, about 5 years.
Dysphoria changes, you treat the most critical social dysphoria first, and then wow, you feel so good for awhile, till you feel so good with yourself that you feel like having a relationship with someone and then that thing sticks out at you like a sore tumb :D and again you have something preventing from moving forward and the dysphoria increases again.
if you accidentlly tell me where that is, (unless its prescription :() i wont say anything :P
R :police:
a dude is a dude w/hormons w/o hormons w/a dick w/o dick get it? got it? good. :laugh: :icon_dance:
Quote from: regina on July 29, 2007, 06:59:13 PM
I have never rubbed in the fact you're not on hormones. Never. I do have an issue with you going on about the joy and wonder of being 'primary' when you're not on hormones and, at first, didn't sound too disphoric about having a vagina, but I've never ragged anyone about not being able to be on hormones.
Why? What does primary have to do with it? It says 'A primary will be seeking HRT and/or presenting as their target gender by the age of 25'.
Being on HRT isn't a requirement for being primary.
Ok Fine. For a decade, I was living the life of a man with a severe heroin addiction (most people here already know this, so I don't care who else knows), who drank and snorted coke. To be honest, with everything going on the last thing from my mind was the fact I didn't pass. I just didn't worry about it, nobody made an issue I was technically female or whatever. You're living so fast, you just really don't have time to care about passing, especially if nobody you associate with sees you as a woman anyway. The only thing that matters in life is hustling, hustling, hustling.
I couldn't have gone on T anyway back then.
I got clean, and now I'm sick. I don't care who thinks I'm making some kind of excuse or whatever, there's enough people here who know what's going on with my condition.
Like I said, I really believe the TS community as a whole puts way too much stock on HRT. I mean does non-passable equal Secondary? That's absurd. Would a 20 year old mtf who can't pass, looks like a linebacker in a dress, but is taking estrogen be more valid than me?
Posted on: July 29, 2007, 07:22:59 PM
Quote from: regina on July 29, 2007, 06:59:13 PM
Yes, it's mean. But, guess what, your endless primary/secondary thread was just as mean for many people on this forum. Whether it was intended that way I have no idea, but labeling people 'secondary' (which is ALWAYS a negative term in the trans world and, certainly within the therapeutic community, didn't make you beloved. I know I was hurt by it. Live by the sword, die by the sword... that's the cliche.
I very much appreciated your more emotionally honest answer. You sounded more like a man and less like a wounded little boy.
ciao,
Gina M.
I'm sorry that you felt hurt by something I must've said. I never labeled anyone anything, until I did have one person specifically order my diagnosis. So may I ask why you felt hurt by my posts on the thread and what was said that upset you?
Quote from: Nero on July 29, 2007, 07:29:40 PM
I really believe the TS community as a whole puts way too much stock on HRT
the comunity dont know d#ck bout you. they dont know what u feel. dont let'em tell u what u gotta do w/ur life. they aint you. you aint them.
QuoteLike I said, I really believe the TS community as a whole puts way too much stock on HRT. I mean does non-passable equal Secondary?
Now, everyone knows that non-passable is considerably lower on the food chain than secondary TS >:D :D
zythyra
Quote from: regina on July 29, 2007, 10:25:28 PM
If you've ever read about what constitutes 'secondary', and discussions of this overgeneralization, there is a persistent undercurrent that these people are not passable, will never really be accepted as women (or men), are behaviorally incapable of ever assimilating to their 'psychological gender' and often look out and out foolish trying to pretend they're women (or men). For many, many writers on this subject, primary = passable, while secondary = never passable. One can try and smooth it out, but that's one of the 'primary' assumptions of this entire theory and how clinicians should deal with them.
My interpretation of the above paragraph is that if a person will never be passable and is very self-conscious then their perception to "never fit into society" is very real.
...........................
I have found dysphoria against a particular part of my body has increased. I am not sure what I will do to remedy.
Quote from: regina on July 29, 2007, 10:25:28 PMI would hope no one would suggest that because one person did drugs and another didn't, that the first person's anguish was obviously worse. People get into addictions for a lot of reasons, genetic and social.
Holy Mackerel! Jesus, Mary, and Joseph! Can I not say
anything without you pouncing on it?
LOL I don't have hidden messages or agendas in every word I write, ok?
You said something about why I'm not on HRT or something. Inferring that I'm not 'genuine' or some such.
I just told you what I've been doing for the last decade. I explained that HRT wasn't my top priority, that's all.
I don't know what gave you the idea I was implying it as some kind of dysphoria criteria or some such.
I'm probably 1 out of 2 or 3 people on this site who was that heavy into that lifestyle. All the guys I ran with were non-trans heterosexual men, I never implied addiction was somehow a TS thing or some such.
Almost all my buddies are in the ground. In fact, one just got put there last week. When you live fast, you die fast.
So the last thing I would ever ever do is glorify drug addiction.
Posted on: July 30, 2007, 02:20:59 AM
Quote from: regina on July 29, 2007, 10:25:28 PM
Quote from: Nero on July 29, 2007, 07:29:40 PM
I'm sorry that you felt hurt by something I must've said. I never labeled anyone anything, until I did have one person specifically order my diagnosis. So may I ask why you felt hurt by my posts on the thread and what was said that upset you?
Nero, you gave many examples of ftms who were bugging you who weren't really men in your book... they are still women (remember your 'list.') You said you were primary because you couldn't live as a female at all while secondaries could live in their assigned gender because their GD wasn't as intense. Didn't you state that? I don't want to misquote you, but I swear you said that in many different ways.
I never said it to their face or anything. I don't do that okay. I'm not so heartless as you might think. I've had TS tell me all day long that they pass 100%, when the reality is there's no way in hades they pass 10%. I don't say anything.
There
are ftms who I don't believe are men (and mtfs I don't believe are women). What the hell am I supposed to think when a guy is all decked out as male, maybe he's even been on T for ages, and he just plain acts like a girl?
Does not relate to other men in the slightest, is offended by what guys talk about and promptly changes the subject to the 'patriarchy' , his speech is 'affected', he calculates every step he takes, every word out his mouth, every mannerism, before answering any question, you can just hear the wheels turning in his head wondering what the appropriate 'guy' response is - socialization can't have
that drastic effect on a person (especially somebody who's supposedly been living a while as male).
I mean sure, we all have certain things of our birth gender we've picked up (pretty difficult not to), but aside from unlearning a few small things, being your target gender should come natural.
If you are in fact the gender you claim.
The biggest tell tale - how they react to things. They may have the speech, walk, and mannerisms down flat, but react to everything as their birth gender.
Come on, people! Am I the only one who's witnessed this?
It's blatantly obvious to me. I'm used to being around all guys. There are guys I get along with and guys I don't.
But there's a huge difference in a personality clash with a guy and attempting to kick it with a 'female' who says he's a guy. You can just tell. Really.
Tell me you've never met a TS (even one who transitioned years ago) that underneath all the clothes, the presentation, the surgeries, the affected mannerisms, etc. behaved
nothing like their target gender.
I mean this goes back to Shakespearean days. Anyone can put on the garb and 'act' like the opposite gender.
It doesn't mean they are the gender they're impersonating.
I find that the ones who are obviously playing a 'role' ( extremely affected mannerisms, walk, etc. obvious weighing of every word to make certain it's something their target gender would say, etc) are less likely to actually be their target gender.
Quote from: regina on July 29, 2007, 10:25:28 PMYou said you were primary because you couldn't live as a female at all while secondaries could live in their assigned gender because their GD wasn't as intense. Didn't you state that? I don't want to misquote you, but I swear you said that in many different ways.
I did say that. I firmly believe that. How can people ignore the vast difference between a transwoman who was born with severe GID, had severe problems because she acted like a girl, was reprimanded for being feminine, was never 'one of the guys', and whose emotional growth was severely stunted because she could not grow up, she could not be a man, she could not fit into the world of men, etc, etc, etc.
and
A transwoman who admits she felt very little to no GID, never thought about it much, displayed no gender varience (trying on mom's dress once or twice doesn't count), had a perfectly normal childhood aside from maybe an occasional thought that they wished they could wear what the girls' wear or look like a girl, etc. Had a perfectly normal life as a man, was accepted as a man by other men and was a successful family man?
The argument that the latter transwoman was 'stronger', 'of greater character', had a 'winning personality', had a 'high IQ', {insert excuse here}, is absolutely ludicrous and cruelly minimizes what the first transwoman had to go through because of her severe GID and gender varience.
I don't understand why so many transwomen like the latter feel the need to claim a label they don't fit. I mean a Primary had the experience they had, a Secondary had the experience they had. What the hell is the big deal about admitting that there are different types of transsexuals?
Why in Sam's Hill would a Secondary be
jealous that they didn't experience severe soul crushing childhood GID and the inevitable consequences of not being able to 'fake' their birth gender?
That makes absolutely no sense to me. Do Secondaries think Primaries wanted it that way? I sure as hell didn't want it that way. I spent every single day of my life wondering why I might as well be an alien from another planet. Desperately envious of normal kids. I would have sold my soul to have a normal childhood. I was denied everything I ever wanted. I would have given anything to be a normal kid. Or at least treated like one.
I seriously doubt that if a fairy godmother appeared to a Secondary and showed them the future and said right now you're Secondary, but if I change you now to a Primary, you will go through living hell, never experience even a somewhat normal childhood, be denied a proper education, and be hounded about your gender varient behaviour up until your time of transition, but for all this you will win the Primary badge! After all, that's all that's important to a TS.
The Primary badge! You can wear it proudly, and let everyone know how elitist and superior and more of a man/woman you are because you're PRIMARY! Congratulations, kid. You've just hit the jackpot! What do you say?
Shall I wave my wand and make you a Primary?
I seriously doubt any kid would choose that. I mean would anyone go through that in order to not be called Secondary?
Incidentally, there are exceptions to every rule. There are several members here who do not fit the 'severe GID and inability to assimilate rule' but who are in fact Primary.
This is due to the fact they are wood sprites - female spirit beings born into human bodies.
A wood sprite exudes a powerful female aura and enchants everyone she meets. No one can find much fault with a wood sprite thus her ability to live undetected. This ability is not exclusive to TS wood sprites. Non-TS wood sprites are able to live undetected as normal women.
Few have the rare ability to detect a wood sprite.
gina: get your knickers out of your bum, nero isnt trying to wind you up, or say your not 'propper' ok?
i agree with him here, the primary secondery crap is too much.
if one is primary, they transition at a certain age, secondery, beyond a certain age, dysphoria can arrive at different times, be triggered, OR have to be suppressed (the mind can do powerful things).
if one is secondery? so what?
primary? so what?
our transitions are made no easier by names... thier categoriesed because society needs categories. so does the medical establishment.
s**t happens guys.
I tell you what, if i could manage to MATURE, without this pain and suffereing, i would, if i could get my education, without loosing my parents and family, without interupting my studdies, being forced to grow up too fast, missing my childhood. i was robbed. its like mental rape. its not my choice to be like this, so count your effing lucky stars you got to get through this stage first.
Some of these threads get so crazy that they just suck all my energy and all the life out of me.
Sarah L.
what a very helpful and totally energy sapping post...
R :police:
Quote from: regina on July 30, 2007, 10:19:13 AM
And I know I never inferred you're not genuine. I said "I can imagine how other transmen who you identify as 'not male' who are on T will judge you because you're not on it yet make the claim of being 'primary'. That's what I said. And are you really denying that's not the case? That you saying this doesn't bug a lot of people in that situation?
To be honest, I could care less what other transmen think about me. The guys on this board are cool and a couple guys elsewhere on the net, but frankly, I have yet to be impressed by a single one I've met in person. Now that may have something to do with the large gay and lesbian population in my area, and it may be that a lot of the ones I meet here iding as ftm are in fact butch, not male (whether they admit it or not ::)). I really would like to meet some of the guys on this board, but we're talking different countries here.
The thing about T is that a lot of butches take it to gain a more masculine look or whatever but still identify as a butch female, not male. So how the hell can that be the measure of anything?
To be honest, I could give a rat's behind what anyone thinks about the choices I've made. I could give a rat's behind whether someone's upset by what I do with
my body. You know, I learned at a very young age that people are going to think what they want about me regardless of anything I do or say. Oh sure, I'm insulted by ->-bleeped-<-s and harpies trying to label me or tell me the 'right' way to be trans, but it doesn't change what I know about who I am.
And I sure as hell don't give a damn what some guy my age with no male experience who's hid behind women's skirts all his life and spouts off about the patriarchy at regaular intervals thinks. Being on T don't make anyone a man.
Posted on: July 30, 2007, 11:17:10 AM
Quote from: regina on July 30, 2007, 10:19:13 AM
Quote from: Nero on July 30, 2007, 04:53:05 AM
Holy Mackerel! Jesus, Mary, and Joseph! Can I not say anything without you pouncing on it?
LOL I don't have hidden messages or agendas in every word I write, ok?
Oh, chill out Nero, I'm not a harpy out to get you. Everyone has an agenda (moi included), you're just not as good at hiding yours as you think you are. I have no idea why you felt the need to tell me about your addiction past, it's not like I pried it out of you or anything, now did I? It's your own private history and, while I'm nosy and a snoop, I don't need to have people go over their personal hells for my own little private crusades. I'm sorry you had to deal with it and I'm glad you're past having to actively deal with it.
You should know by now with the amount of posting we've done, that I'm not an overly reserved individual. Everybody except maybe some newly registered people knows about that huge chunk of my life. It was my entire adult life.
I was still getting clean when I first posted to this board. There are threads and posts scattered all over this board about it. I don't care. I don't use my name or picture.
Quote from: regina on July 30, 2007, 12:12:06 PM
Quote from: Nero on July 30, 2007, 11:32:59 AM
To be honest, I could care less what other transmen think about me.
Nobody says you have to care. I was suggesting that you shouldn't be surprised it you get a lot of 'tude from them because of your disinterest. That's all.
'Disenchanted' is the right word. Like I said, I was unimpressed by the ones in my area. There are ones I've talked to on the net and by phone that are pretty cool, but it's doubtful I'll ever meet them. The ones in my area are sort of this clique who all have a background as militant feminists (or so it comes off), who have bigotted views on what defines a transman. For one thing, a transman should be hetero, a transman should be a virgin (in the vaginal sense),etc etc etc. And then most of them man-bash and I just can't relate to any of that. They're also not what I'm used to when kicking it with guys.
Quote from: regina on July 30, 2007, 12:12:06 PM
On the Internet, anyway. But I get this feeling you're not the same in person. Am I right or wrong?
Wrong. Though sometimes I wish I could keep my mouth shut. Everyone who knows me knows full well how I feel about every topic under the sun, the details of every great adventure I've been through, the fact that I'm way less PC in person than online, and knows what the topic of the month is - and the topic of the month pretty much is debated for a month.
Quote from: regina on July 30, 2007, 12:12:06 PM
QuoteI'm insulted by ->-bleeped-<-s and harpies
Please answer with the most appropriate response. Gina M. is:
(a) an *sshole
(b) a harpy
(c) all of the above
(d) none of the above
(e) I plead the fifth
Quote from: regina on July 29, 2007, 10:25:28 PM
Quote from: Nero on July 29, 2007, 07:29:40 PM
I'm sorry that you felt hurt by something I must've said. I never labeled anyone anything, until I did have one person specifically order my diagnosis. So may I ask why you felt hurt by my posts on the thread and what was said that upset you?
People can pretend that primary/secondary don't carry loaded judgments or are somehow equal but that's very unbelievable. This is an old time way of 'ranking' trans people. Moreover, many researchers used it to even define the reasons for transitioning. Primary were 'real' transsexuals (whatever that means) while secondaries were transvestic fetishists. Just bringing up those categories implies people fit into a slot and there is strong judgment about the secondary slot. That's what bothers me... you dredged up a topic that is sure to hurt people's feelings and get them having to defend their transitions. For whatever reasons, you felt the need to bring it up, you could see the range of emotions, defensiveness and hurt it brought up. I know you don't feel you were doing it to hurt anyone and were trying to help people understand who you are (and, honestly, to strike back at people you thought were tormenting you) but I don't put much stock in people's 'innocent intentions' if someone can't fess up to all the ramifications their actions produce.
My issue with the behavior of a number of people on this site is they make statements they think are discussing issues, but the way it's presented and the subject itself are put downs of anyone who can easily read themselves into the broad generalizations presented. (eg. anyone bothering to discuss this topic is wasting their time, people who are concerned about this issue are childish, people who worry about this aren't the 'real thing') Somehow they think this isn't a personal attack and that's so wrong. It's a generalized attack on a very personal issue, but it hurts every bit as much. People think that because they aren't addressing someone directly that they're having an honest debate of thoughtful issues. And in these situations, I often see defensiveness, put downs, passive aggressiveness and thinly disguised innuendo. Sorry, but I don't respect that behavior... .
Gina M.
Posted on: July 29, 2007, 10:19:52 PM
Quote from: zythyra on July 29, 2007, 08:14:07 PM
QuoteLike I said, I really believe the TS community as a whole puts way too much stock on HRT. I mean does non-passable equal Secondary?
Now, everyone knows that non-passable is considerably lower on the food chain than secondary TS >:D :D
zythyra
If you've ever read about what constitutes 'secondary', and discussions of this overgeneralization, there is a persistent undercurrent that these people are not passable, will never really be accepted as women (or men), are behaviorally incapable of ever assimilating to their 'psychological gender' and often appear out and out foolish trying to pretend they're women. For many, many writers on this subject, primary = passable, while secondary = never passable. One can try and smooth it out, but that's one of the 'primary' assumptions of this entire theory and how clinicians should deal with them.
ciao,
Gina M.
Quote from: regina on July 30, 2007, 12:33:00 AM
Quote from: Wendy on July 29, 2007, 11:37:56 PM
Quote from: regina on July 29, 2007, 10:25:28 PM
If you've ever read about what constitutes 'secondary', and discussions of this overgeneralization, there is a persistent undercurrent that these people are not passable, will never really be accepted as women (or men), are behaviorally incapable of ever assimilating to their 'psychological gender' and often look out and out foolish trying to pretend they're women (or men). For many, many writers on this subject, primary = passable, while secondary = never passable. One can try and smooth it out, but that's one of the 'primary' assumptions of this entire theory and how clinicians should deal with them.
My interpretation of the above paragraph is that if a person will never be passable and is very self-conscious then their perception to "never fit into society" is very real.
"Secondary" is a very sweeping categorization of people who don't fall into a proscribed group... "primaries." Either you're a member of the primary group or you're thrown into the secondary pile. There is an assumption embedded into descriptions of 'secondary transitioners" that they don't pass and are much less likely to every become socialized as women, be 'convincing' as their target gender or live as women. Moreover, the description of secondary transitioners almost always hinges around how 'successfully" these people were able to live in their assigned gender (until their late-blooming gender dysphoria appeared). I find this description completely false for the majority of people who transitioned after the age of 30 (for a wide variety of reasons).
Another interesting reality about this system of categorizing and clinical attitudes towards transwomen is that 'secondary' has, historically, rarely been used to describe ftms— it's almost always applied to mtfs and I feel one of the reasons why this loaded, very judgmental term is ever used is exactly as a warning to those who would transverse gender boundaries away from being male. The resulting action will be ridicule... look at the men in dresses and how foolish they are. I don't believe ftms generally encounter this b.s. because their transitions don't carry as much societal baggage.
Wendy, I'm not getting what you're saying here (I'm tired)? Do you basically agree with the traditional description of secondary transitioners? That's what I was trying to describe in that paragraph.
ciao,
Gina M.
Hmmm So now you want to talk about all this. But you never posted in the thread I created especially for you.
Which specifically addresses the stereotypes and the misconceptions of Primary vs Secondary.
And it's feelings, experiences, and emotions only. No theories, no DSM quotes, no terms or definitions were permitted.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,16434.0.html
Wow, don't know how I missed this thread! just spent some time getting up to speed and just want to say:
Nero : you can call me 'doll' anytime!
Regina : secondary, schmeckendry, you're a great woman!
As regards primary and secondary, maybe it was just a clever invention by psychiatrists to get us to fight amongst ourselves rather than against their out-dated, half-baked, over-simplistic theories about what it is to be differently gendered ! (Just a thought...)
MVER XXX
isnt primary and secondery about bloody age? not ->-bleeped-<-ability?
Quote from: Rachael on July 30, 2007, 03:17:18 PM
isnt primary and secondery about bloody age? not ->-bleeped-<-ability?
Well now, that's the accepted definition. I think back in the day when it was first created, it was more about a primary being someone who has felt this their whole life, and did have the TS condition and a secondary being just a middle aged man with ->-bleeped-<-. But that could also be a 20 year old guy with ->-bleeped-<-.
If literally all the labels denoted was age of onset or transition or whatever, that would be fine.
But the Secondary label does carry the 'not really a woman, a man with a sick fetish' implication.
I started caring about these labels when I would encounter Primaries who transitioned in their 20s who for all intents and purposes no matter how they looked were their birth sex.
And later transitioners who were exactly like their target gender.
So to me there has to be a distinction there. And no matter the childhood behaviour or whatever - the real difference to me is that there are TS who actually
are their target gender and TS who are like actors on stage portraying the opposite gender. It doesn't come natural.
And that is regardless of transitional age. I've met transwomen who transitioned in their 20s who simply were not women - I don't know what they were. Perhaps androgyne in confusion or a feminine man.
But Primary and Secondary are always going to be correlated with age which is fine. it's a valid distinction.
But we need a distinction between TS who were literally born into the opposite gender body and TS who for whatever reason woke up one day and decided thye'd rather be the opposite sex.
Because to me that is a far bigger distinction than age.
but to society, arnt ALL transexuals men who have a sick desire to be women?
QuoteBut we need a distinction between TS who were literally born into the opposite gender body and TS who for whatever reason woke up one day and decided thye'd rather be the opposite sex.
Do we really need a distinction between early or late onset, or primary and secondary? Obviously, if a person's feelings of dysphoria are intense, the treatment is the same... So the question arises as to whether this classification is even necessary at all.
zythyra
i find it funny, i mean,these people know so little, educating them might kill thier tiny brains...
Nero, I totally disagree with the "need" for that distinction. Why?
I don't know why that's so incredibly important for anyone?
What about those that had increasing GID all their lives, they wouldn't fit either definition.
I think this issue is only about validation and is incredibly divisive and hurtfull considering
that the whole theoretical basis for the binary distinction is flimsy (there may exist a classification, but its almost certainly way more complicated than that).
its all about validation, people want to be better, less ->-bleeped-<-. more justified, to back up thier decisions. make them sure they gave things up for something...
Quotei find it funny, i mean,these people know so little, educating them might kill thier tiny brains...
Which people Rachael?
As a teacher, I try not to judge or impose my biases on students. If one thinks their brains are tiny, one is likely to have a hard time teaching them anything. :) Most people have open minds and are willing to listen and learn if we give them half a chance and don't belittle them.
Zythyra
Quote from: Keira on July 30, 2007, 04:39:08 PM
Nero, I totally disagree with the "need" for that distinction. Why?
I don't know why that's so incredibly important for anyone?
What about those that had increasing GID all their lives, they wouldn't fit either definition.
I think this issue is only about validation and is incredibly divisive and hurtfull considering
that the whole theoretical basis for the binary distinction is flimsy (there may exist a classification, but its almost certainly way more complicated than that).
Quote from: Rachael on July 30, 2007, 04:59:51 PM
its all about validation, people want to be better, less ->-bleeped-<-. more justified, to back up thier decisions. make them sure they gave things up for something...
You guys will get the need for a distinction when you're in a room full of supposed transwomen like this:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,16893.msg131314.html#msg131314
It ain't about validation or elitism for me - it's about being lumped with those certain type of trans'men' who are a disgrace to my gender.
Quote from: Nero on July 30, 2007, 06:42:09 PM
It ain't about validation or elitism for me - it's about being lumped with those certain type of trans'men' who are a disgrace to my gender.
I'm afraid you just have to get accustomed to it. In current society, GID is stigmatised enough that the public gets a very biased view of what a transsexual is like, even from transsexuals themselves. Consider: those who have a mild enough GID that they can live in the closet do that, however unhappy that will keep them -- they don't want to be labelled as a 'pervert, sick bastard, dude in a dress, homo, ->-bleeped-<-, sick f**k, etc...' (thanks, Morticia). Then again, those who transition successfully tend to be as much in stealth as possible -- in general, they want to be accepted as their real gender, not advertise their history (or be labelled as 'pervert, etc.'). So, the people who are visibly TS have a much greater proportion of those who have a severe enough case of GID that they need to do something about it, but won't -- for one reason or another -- pass completely in their target gender. The people you are griping about are one subset.
Nfr
Quote from: Seshatneferw on July 31, 2007, 02:36:39 AM
Quote from: Nero on July 30, 2007, 06:42:09 PM
It ain't about validation or elitism for me - it's about being lumped with those certain type of trans'men' who are a disgrace to my gender.
I'm afraid you just have to get accustomed to it. In current society, GID is stigmatised enough that the public gets a very biased view of what a transsexual is like, even from transsexuals themselves. Consider: those who have a mild enough GID that they can live in the closet do that, however unhappy that will keep them -- they don't want to be labelled as a 'pervert, sick bastard, dude in a dress, homo, ->-bleeped-<-, sick f**k, etc...' (thanks, Morticia). Then again, those who transition successfully tend to be as much in stealth as possible -- in general, they want to be accepted as their real gender, not advertise their history (or be labelled as 'pervert, etc.'). So, the people who are visibly TS have a much greater proportion of those who have a severe enough case of GID that they need to do something about it, but won't -- for one reason or another -- pass completely in their target gender. The people you are griping about are one subset.
Nfr
Yeah. It's hard though. All of a sudden I am a minority and minorities are so stereotyped. I think it's natural for a marginalized minority to feel embarassed of members of their group, afraid people will assume we're all alike. And ftm really is not that well known yet and I resent that the certain group is louder and more obvious will give rise to a bad stereotype for us.
I guess this just the life of a minority. It is weird to go from the majority where you are never judged or stereotyped based on others to now even caring how others act.
I agree, although allowing false steriotypes to prevail has certainly helped me....
nobody would think the slightly tomboyish girl with the eyebrow piercing, hoodie and baggy jeans and skate shoes was a ->-bleeped-<-. why, ->-bleeped-<-s are freaks, and wear ballgowns to tescos! and mince about in high heals, and makeup!
sometimes letting people belive the wrong is safer...
R :police: