What the title says. What are your experiences: do they fit the narrative or not? Do you find it problematic when seeking treatment or convincing yourself/others of your status as a trans person?
In some ways, I fit the narrative. For instance, I knew from a very early age that I should've been born a girl. At one point, I actually convinced myself I had been but that my parents didn't want a girl, so they had a few bits and pieces switched around. I was five at the time lol.
In other ways, no I don't. The main crisis I went through during puberty was the sexuality crisis. My psyche sort of buried my transness for a bit and now it is emerging.
Not really but I think it has something to do with how manageable my dysphoria has been since I came out and how people referring to me as she or my legal name doesn't hurt that much. Most transgender people on tumblr would probably scold me saying that I'm not transgender unless the dysphoria makes you easy to offend or something. Maybe I'm really thick-skinned due to being bullied all my childhood?
Nah I never seemed to fit any trans narrative. People accepted me when I transitioned MTF probably honestly just because of my appearance. But transitioning back to boy I don't know. I've met a lot more hesitation so far with people I've told. :(
What is the trans narrative?
Quote from: Ms Grace on July 11, 2014, 06:16:02 PM
"Once upon a time..." :)
LOL thanks Ms Grace :D Very helpful!
Seriously though ... I don't know that I've ever seen any two trans people with exactly the same situation. So ... without seeing a specific narrative, I can't answer this question.
I think you're right, Amy. I've never subscribed to any transgender narrative that I'm aware of.
From what I can tell, the trans narrative is the "knew since I was toddler, am transitioning to straight, and want to go the whole nine yards." Someone correct me if I am wrong though.
I didn't figure it out until I was an adult due to being deep in denial, am attracted to guys, and although I do want to do all the stuff, I'm currently not too keen on the options of bottom surgery. (Before someone jumps down my throat for that, I would like to point that this is personal to me and I am in no way judging anyone else.)
I wouldn't fit that narrative, and I think a good few might not either.
I wasn't aware of where my dysphoria was originating until after my twenties, and if I do transition I would be considered queer/lesbian, unless the hormones change the fact that I am very much unattracted to the male form, including my own.
I didn't know a thing when I was a child. All I was concerned about was playing with whomever wanted to play. I hit puberty about 14 and I started to wonder, but life wasn't horrible. It really wasn't until 19 that I started questioning things and not until about 23 I knew for sure. I'm 28 now and just starting. Its a terribly long process, and some people don't realize until they're late in their life.
I think everyone's narrative will differ somehow and the most respectful thing to realize and appreciate is there is no true trans narrative. Nor is "going all the way" somehow the right path for everyone. If someone can find happiness in just admitting to themselves they are trans and nothing else, then so be it.
Quote from: Edge on July 11, 2014, 06:24:42 PM
From what I can tell, the trans narrative is the "knew since I was toddler, am transitioning to straight, and want to go the whole nine yards." Someone correct me if I am wrong though.
I didn't figure it out until I was an adult due to being deep in denial, am attracted to guys, and although I do want to do all the stuff, I'm currently not too keen on the options of bottom surgery. (Before someone jumps down my throat for that, I would like to point that this is personal to me and I am in no way judging anyone else.)
No one here would judge you for not wanting bottom surgery. It is an extremely personal choice that must always be done for oneself and oneself alone. And frankly 5 minutes of reading about phallo scared me to death (or was that scarred lol ).
And for the main subject, i never cared about any preconceived narrative, i went my way and my way alone. And that way leads me to srs in 4 months not because of someone else. But for myself, i earned my new little genitals, and when i go through the pain and dilations it will be my experience and no one elses.
Lol screw the mold. Haven't fit in it since day 1 won't start now >:-)
I never felt like a female.
I never felt the slightest interest in crossdressing.
I never hated any part of my body.
I never had problems with my gender in childhood.
I had to figure out I was trans at age 50 by looking at the clues. I was always interested in music/movies/books intended for women and that had strong female characters. I was much more comfortable in female company. And I had an intense wish to live as a female and have a female body (dating back to my teen years).
I've had trouble convincing more than one gatekeeper that I'm trans because my story does not match any standard narrative.
As far as I'm concerned, the standard narrative can go %&@$ itself.
I think the trans narrative arose because it was the easiest and "safest" ( for the diagnostician) to understand and therefore became the standard. To get what you need, you spin the facts to suit. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Least risk approach. Those that couldn't? Probably not a good outcome for them.
Me? I was pretty clueless about most things for decades. Looking back, yes there were signs but I certainly didn't know anything. I prefer to focus on me now and in the future and let the past be just that -gone. My narrative isn't really worth a thing now. When I was going through the diagnostic process, I probably extended the process by not being assertive about what I thought it meant. The telling point came when I was asked where I saw myself in 5 years. Answer? Happy woman. Thinking about it now, it was a future question that seemed to be the critical point.
That's the thing- if you've met one transperson, you've met one transperson. We often have some things in common, but in the end we are all snowflakes. Some of us flakier than others... :P
Quote from: Edge on July 11, 2014, 06:24:42 PM
From what I can tell, the trans narrative is the "knew since I was toddler, am transitioning to straight, and want to go the whole nine yards." Someone correct me if I am wrong though.
I didn't figure it out until I was an adult due to being deep in denial, am attracted to guys, and although I do want to do all the stuff, I'm currently not too keen on the options of bottom surgery. (Before someone jumps down my throat for that, I would like to point that this is personal to me and I am in no way judging anyone else.)
Well under that definition:
Yes. (Since age ~5, though I didn't have a word for it until I was 29)
No! (Unless something changes, as while the idea of sex with a guy doesn't bother me, I've
never been sexually attracted to a man. No offense, boys!)
No. (Financialy unviable, and there are other things more important in regards with transition that just come ahead of it for me)
So ... no. I guess I don't.
These replies are good because I don't fit it very much at all.I was going to start a thread to see if I was mental or something since I'm not a "true" transsexual.(the quotation marks are sarcasm)I'm almost the same as suzifrommd except I liked wearing women's clothes and didn't know all men don't hate being hairy and having no butt.I have the same problems with the gatekeepers too.
I wanted to make the thread because I don't feel I fit the narrative either and I was curious how many who feel that way. I suspect that not fitting the narrative can make it difficult to get the treatment you desire as I suspect that might be happening to me right now but it's speculation; it has made me unnecessarily doubt myself and whether I am doing the right thing even though I feel so much happier and comfortable with myself now compared to pre-transition and especially pre-HRT. I just had a vague feeling during my young adulthood that something wasn't right with my gender identity and I refused to label myself as a woman and felt I had issues fitting in etc but I for a long time rationalized that I was simply atypical/tomboy.
Piecing the clues together was difficult because they don't fit the narrative but it's more a general sense of always wondering/seeking to be a boy and feeling that life had been better as such. I also strongly identify with male characters over female.
I'm not entirely sure what the "transgender narrative" is. I haven't really experienced a whole lot of commonality in dysphoria among the people I've met, and I've yet to medically transition, so I haven't experienced any gatekeeping, either, but...
I suppose I fit it in some ways. I always knew there was something seriously off about me, and probably always knew subconsciously that it was my gender, but I didn't consciously admit it until puberty. I guess that fits into the narrative. But the other stuff...
I'm totally grossed out by guys and would never, ever consider a romantic/sexual relationship with one. It's amazing how this is such a stumbling point for a lot of the people I've met. I've met so many people within our own community who either just assume I'm into guys because I'm a woman (you wouldn't think we'd be quite so hung up on heterosexuality as cis people, but apparently so), start talking in detail to me about their sexual encounters with men because they assume I can relate (I'm just internally cringing and thinking, "Ewww! I did not ask to hear this!" the whole time, but it's not like I can say that. =P), or even worse, the ones who think my sexuality somehow makes me less of a woman or is some weird indicator of masculinity. Some even seem to think I'm only into girls because of the T. I wonder how they account for all the cis lesbians out there.
As for how I experience dysphoria, I suppose that doesn't quite line up with the standard definition, either. My genitals, while I wish I could afford to change them, are probably the part of my body I care about the least. The way I see it, no one else is even going to know what I have down there except my partner, so why should I be overly concerned about them? My list of what causes me the most dysphoria goes something like this...
1. Voice.
I don't have to constantly look at myself, but I do have to constantly speak and hear my voice, which is very deep and masculine, causing me major dysphoria.
2. Hair.
I can't grow my hair out because of the MPB that has spread across the entire top of my head, I hate touching my face and being reminded of the stubble there, and then there's the body hair... Ugh. It's everywhere. :'(
3. The lack of any sort of ) ( figure. I'm hoping this will change once I lose enough weight. I'm going to be pretty devastated if there isn't at least some degree of a feminine figure hiding underneath the fat.
4. Breasts.
I want them so, so badly...
5. Genitals.
Last on the list. I doubt I'll ever be able to afford the surgery. I make very little money and there are so many things that would come before it, if I did. I guess I'm... okay... with them. As long as I don't have to use them for penetration, I can deal.
No "ever since I was a baby" story here either. No inkling that I was trans at that age, nor through early adulthood either; just thought I had a secret desire to switch genders, but hid it because it seemed perverted. Never crossdressed, never suffered from much dydphoria. Feelings hit me hard in the past few years though, and in retrospect there were many experiences and feelings I had growing up that were obviously unidentified symptoms. So my narrative is the "late bloomer" story, and to be honest I often feel that it's an inferior story to the "I knew I was trans in the cradle and crossdressed throughout my entire childhood and was depressed and always hated my genitals" story that is often peddled as the official trans narrative. Makes me second guess myself all the time, and I often find myself asking whether I'm really trans at all. Glad to read that the narratives are diverse and not all stories of misery and angst and suicide attempts.
I fit the stereotypical 'child that knew' narrative sufficiently that gatekeepers have effectively rubber-stamped and waved me through thus far. I appreciate I'm incredibly fortunate for that which is why I loathe the narrative imposed on trans people and the way it's used to judge legitimacy. I don't think anyone should have to doubt their personal experience due to unwarranted expectations or fit through very small hoops in order to justify their unique identity. It creates arbitrary and detestable suffering for so many.
For me, the narrative seems to be a product of trying to survive in a gender essentialist society that's determined to protect its weak foundations. I'd guess that if we offer definitive conclusions that fit a predictable pattern then we become a somewhat known quantity and less of threat to dominant ideas. It ensures as many trans people as possible can be assimilated into the existing prevalent gender model and limits confrontation with the authority of cis assumptions. Those that have power over us are prevented from questioning their world-view and maintain the illusion of definitive categories. Girls remain sugar, spice, and all things nice while boys remain slugs, snails, and puppy dog tails. We're just 'errors' that can be rectified and hidden as often as possible.
It's why I tend to giggle at the accusations that trans people reinforce gender stereotypes. We're not the ones that created those stereotypes and we're not the ones heavily punishing anyone that transgresses them. If trans diversity were actually acknowledged and accepted by professionals and society then I'd guess, and hope, that the restrictive gender essentialist edifice would crumble.
In terms of personal experience with this, a psychotherapist said she was very supportive of me moving forward with treatment due to 'showing a powerful sense of femaleness.' While I was relieved to be getting what I need, it also made me incredibly peeved since explanation quickly revealed she meant my body language, habits, conversational language use, etc conformed with stereotypes of femininity. She used my personal gender expression to judge my core identity and the possibility of her doing that to people whose expression doesn't concord with stereotypes scares me.
Another aspect of the stereotypical narrative I tend to think about is whether causality was reversed for me. Did I absorb the narrative then begin interpreting my life in accordance with it? The fact I first expressed my discomfort and need to be female at age eight would suggest not but I also found information on gender dysphoria when twelve so it's entirely conceivable that the weighting I've given to childhood memories or life experiences since that point has been unwittingly affected by that.
Anyhoo, sorry for rambling. Thank you if you read that nonsense. Hehe.
I didn't think it was nonsense at all. I enjoyed reading it. :)
Quote from: Lonicera on July 12, 2014, 01:58:09 PM
I fit the stereotypical 'child that knew' narrative sufficiently that gatekeepers have effectively rubber-stamped and waved me through thus far. I appreciate I'm incredibly fortunate for that which is why I loathe the narrative imposed on trans people and the way it's used to judge legitimacy. I don't think anyone should have to doubt their personal experience due to unwarranted expectations or fit through very small hoops in order to justify their unique identity. It creates arbitrary and detestable suffering for so many.
For me, the narrative seems to be a product of trying to survive in a gender essentialist society that's determined to protect its weak foundations. I'd guess that if we offer definitive conclusions that fit a predictable pattern then we become a somewhat known quantity and less of threat to dominant ideas. It ensures as many trans people as possible can be assimilated into the existing prevalent gender model and limits confrontation with the authority of cis assumptions. Those that have power over us are prevented from questioning their world-view and maintain the illusion of definitive categories. Girls remain sugar, spice, and all things nice while boys remain slugs, snails, and puppy dog tails. We're just 'errors' that can be rectified and hidden as often as possible.
It's why I tend to giggle at the accusations that trans people reinforce gender stereotypes. We're not the ones that created those stereotypes and we're not the ones heavily punishing anyone that transgresses them. If trans diversity were actually acknowledged and accepted by professionals and society then I'd guess, and hope, that the restrictive gender essentialist edifice would crumble.
In terms of personal experience with this, a psychotherapist said she was very supportive of me moving forward with treatment due to 'showing a powerful sense of femaleness.' While I was relieved to be getting what I need, it also made me incredibly peeved since explanation quickly revealed she meant my body language, habits, conversational language use, etc conformed with stereotypes of femininity. She used my personal gender expression to judge my core identity and the possibility of her doing that to people whose expression doesn't concord with stereotypes scares me.
Another aspect of the stereotypical narrative I tend to think about is whether causality was reversed for me. Did I absorb the narrative then begin interpreting my life in accordance with it? The fact I first expressed my discomfort and need to be female at age eight would suggest not but I also found information on gender dysphoria when twelve so it's entirely conceivable that the weighting I've given to childhood memories or life experiences since that point has been unwittingly affected by that.
Anyhoo, sorry for rambling. Thank you if you read that nonsense. Hehe.
I do think that trans people can enforce these expectations and standards as well though; it is bigoted but you aren't prevented from being bigoted just because you are trans. I've seen a lot of MtFs expressing phobia towards crossdressers in the lines of, "I am not
that" for example.
I think I could see a gender therapist myself right just to confirm my feelings though costs is an issue and I am not sure it's worth it just to affirm myself, but essentially I feel a little like I just have weird assorted memories of what I did or thought as a child that I feel suggests that my experiences go back further than when I began realizing that I actually feel very uncomfortable with my gender at the age of 17-18. These memories include that I found it odd that I couldn't play with boy's toys at a certain age for example, or knowing I cannot run shirtless anymore though it felt odd that I couldn't, always wanting to do things the boy's way and I began to despise anything I thought of as girly at a certain age too but not like I actually dressed in boy's clothing, always played the boy etc. Depicting myself as a man came much later in literature when I began writing fiction as a teenager where almost all of my protagonists were explicitly male and most of them tended to reflect myself in some way and I began to relate much more to masculine gender expressions than feminine albeit perhaps on the more effeminate spectrum.
Quote from: Ephemeral on July 12, 2014, 02:49:38 PM
I do think that trans people can enforce these expectations and standards as well though; it is bigoted but you aren't prevented from being bigoted just because you are trans. I've seen a lot of MtFs expressing phobia towards crossdressers in the lines of, "I am not that" for example.
Oh dear, I'd like to deeply apologise if I gave the impression I disagree with this. I entirely agree that trans people are part of the overarching system that yields gender essentialism and I expect that I unwittingly perpetuate it given I absorbed social expectations. I was just idly speculating about the ultimate origins and purpose I'm guessing the idea of a standardised trans narrative serves. I've met enough of the utterly nasty holier-than-thou types to know there's a significant problem with overt essentialism and a pervasive 'subtle' problem impacting ideas too. :)