One thing I've noticed recently about myself is that I have reached a position where I claim to say that "I have peace for my time". The noise is dulled, the physical changes are stalled, I'm productive at work, and home life is good.
Mind you, this is pretty much akin to Neville Chamberlain's speech - the peace treaty between the various aspects of myself are in an uneasy truce, and my great fear is that one certain part of me may secretly be rearming.
Heaven help me if it gets away from me. It would be all too easy for me to say stuff it all, get a few therapy sessions, increase my dosages and go all the way. Getting rubber stamped would be easy in my case as I seem to be sound and sane to my treating health providers. Yet that in itself is an uneasy solution, as the cost of such, in all aspects, are not to my liking.
So I continue negotiating with myself, seeking ways for expression that will not compromise the path set before me, drawing strength from within and relying on my faith. Yet regardless, I know that this will always be a thorn, a locus, in my side that I will never be rid of, merely managed.
It will never be a thorn in your side unless you believe it is so.
A negative view upon a part of yourself will only serve to bring you down further, rather than upwards to the skies.
Your identity is a part of who you are. Yes, it can be easy as 1-2-3 to conform to the binary system of being female but that is, clearly, not the answer you seek.
Being non-binary offers endless possibilities of fluidity. A million chances of being who you are without restraint or care to the society and gender rules surrounding yourself.
It is a wonderful gift, not a curse. It never will be fixed - no, not entirely, it is a bittersweet sense of freedom.
Embrace it, my dear friend. As they say, "This is not the end, this is only the beginning."
(If you were not referring to your non-binary identity, please excuse everything I have said and I apologize profusely.)
Quote from: EchelonHunt on July 17, 2014, 09:20:36 AM
Being non-binary offers endless possibilities of fluidity.
A million chances of being who you are without restraint or care to the society and gender rules surrounding yourself.
It is a wonderful gift, not a curse. It never will be fixed - no, not entirely, it is a bittersweet sense of freedom.
A truth, the upside of being non-binary.
Freedom is always bittersweet, always a battle to be won in a never ending war that is simply your life.
Ativan
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on July 17, 2014, 12:46:15 PM
...Freedom ...
"Freedom's just another word for / nothin' left to lose."(from "Me and Bobby McGee")
Well timed Luna, I am dysphorically uncomfortable today
Will come back in on it when I have a minute or two, but I feel similarly, which makes it so important to always have clarity
Will share later what has helped me. Which, will help, me. LOL
Quote from: luna nyan on July 17, 2014, 06:18:58 AM
One thing I've noticed recently about myself is that I have reached a position where I claim to say that "I have peace for my time". The noise is dulled, the physical changes are stalled, I'm productive at work, and home life is good.
Mind you, this is pretty much akin to Neville Chamberlain's speech - the peace treaty between the various aspects of myself are in an uneasy truce, and my great fear is that one certain part of me may secretly be rearming.
Heaven help me if it gets away from me. It would be all too easy for me to say stuff it all, get a few therapy sessions, increase my dosages and go all the way. Getting rubber stamped would be easy in my case as I seem to be sound and sane to my treating health providers. Yet that in itself is an uneasy solution, as the cost of such, in all aspects, are not to my liking.
So I continue negotiating with myself, seeking ways for expression that will not compromise the path set before me, drawing strength from within and relying on my faith. Yet regardless, I know that this will always be a thorn, a locus, in my side that I will never be rid of, merely managed.
Well dear this sounds like me about 6 months ago or just after my non binary acceptance. Fear of dysphoria, of progression, of losing contact with the core is I think a commonality with us. Having a place where there is a balance between my identities, their self expressions, my reaction to the head in the mirror (negative right now, wasn't that way before my trip), constant rationalizing then questioning if I am trying to rationalize to maintain my happiness, to maintain the boundaries, to fool myself into buying into being necessarily GQ, etc etc mind likes to yap yap yap. And then stepping back, centering, focusing on what is important, focusing on how my dysphoria affects those I love, how I can turn it to a positive not a negative.
I relentlessly focus on positivity. I know of one who have been told that is not realistic, cruelly, in here, but it is their overflow of bitterness that causes that. Bitterness of unrelenting pain of dysphoria blinding them to the truth of who
we are, non binary spirits. If I deceive myself into going full power into mtf transsexuality I act upon a self deception, for I know that my personal transsexuality is not binary in truth. I must stay on the truth.
The gifts we can have as non binary are great. But we have that thing where we don't trust our trans-ness because of its extreme power. So we think it will run us over and we cannot steer it. That is possibly not true, we have members here that are living proof of this. But true for ourselves, time will tell, expert therapy can help and I notice that our most successfully sane trans still are in therapy... I have my next apt Monday and I need it.
But we need to trust, by faith, by board experience from the healthiest of us, by knowing who we are deeply.
Meds are meds, I am full of estrogen and love it. That is its own very interesting thing. But it is not necessarily meds to transition, for me it is meds to stay sane, to get the body I must have, but not to be full time. Nor do I wish the surgical stuff. I have simply no desire for it. But when that peaceful chemical balance is reached where your body has what it needs hormonally whether great or small or T or E, you have found something very important.
I chose stability, and safe choices in presentation. I fear the destruction of my life, what I hold dear to me, but that fear diminishes as I gain new understandings and more clarity of my wifes boundaries. I deeply want to rid the facial hair and grow mine or wig it when I need to, but this is not safe for me now and is an annoyance I can live with. I'll be talking with the shrink about that. He saved my marriage, and of course the big save was from above. That is documented in the Christian forum section.
But regardless, we step out in faith all the time as trans. We are spirits of courage and of truth, in here. So enjoy your peace, your truth, and when the component gets strong, let her out safely, if I fight Satinjoy I am in big trouble. I must unconditionally love her and help her. It was a rough morning for me I needed to be fully transitioned and couldn't get the moment to do so, had to settle on inside focus with male outerwear. If I lose focus, if I forget that appearance is not what this is about to me, nor vanity, then I can get into big trouble real quick.
Rambling, doing a brain dump here, hope there is something helpful in there.
I need my wig on. Wife will give me that time if I need it tomorrow morning. She knows I need to be able to let my hair down or the dysphoria will overwhelm me.
Interesting life we live. Its different I think for all of us, yet the same. I don't think dysphoria is my enemy but I think it can hurt me and others if I do not thoroughly understand it, move with it, and not try to repress it. I am many components but one soul. But no component is excluded, all are needed to be me, getting negative on a component only causes pain. I was created this way, I must find a way to make it shine and help others, mostly in here, by trying to encourage them and to see their great value as souls in this world with very special attributes.
Love to all here. Sad for those who cannot embrace themselves and become casualties. We must care for ourselves. We have worth and value in this world.
Nails polished and out, hair GONE GIMME IT BACK, and laughing at myself joyously. Not a big deal, I sleep well at night, and the lingerie is sweet indeed, as I lie in my wife's loving arms, the greatest gift I have been given as a transsexual, a marriage that made it through transition and remains strong. A painful message to some but hope to others.
Be blessed love to all.
Everyone, thank you for your replies, I appreciate them.
Quote from: EchelonHunt on July 17, 2014, 09:20:36 AM
A negative view upon a part of yourself will only serve to bring you down further, rather than upwards to the skies.
I understand this, and to be honest, I know my self worth. Yet it is something that vexes me and keeps me grounded as a flawed being.
Quote
Your identity is a part of who you are. Yes, it can be easy as 1-2-3 to conform to the binary system of being female but that is, clearly, not the answer you seek.
I've chosen my current path more due to circumstance, and my personal oaths of duty. Should I transition at this point in time, the things I vowed to do, which are more important to me than my gender identity, I would fail in doing, and that to me would be worse than death.
Quote
Being non-binary offers endless possibilities of fluidity. A million chances of being who you are without restraint or care to the society and gender rules surrounding yourself.
It is a wonderful gift, not a curse. It never will be fixed - no, not entirely, it is a bittersweet sense of freedom.
Embrace it, my dear friend. As they say, "This is not the end, this is only the beginning."
(If you were not referring to your non-binary identity, please excuse everything I have said and I apologize profusely.)
It is hard for me to accept being in the middle so to speak. I am one of strong conviction, and sometimes muddling about in the middle so to speak is frustrating. Being a cultural chimera often wears poorly on me, except when I am messing with people's heads.
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on July 17, 2014, 12:46:15 PM
Freedom is always bittersweet, always a battle to be won in a never ending war that is simply your life.
Very true. But the cost of fighting can be horrendous, and it isn't one that I can readily pay. I understand, and mostly accept this, but it can be difficult at times.
Quote from: Satinjoy on July 17, 2014, 04:56:27 PM
The gifts we can have as non binary are great. But we have that thing where we don't trust our trans-ness because of its extreme power. So we think it will run us over and we cannot steer it. That is possibly not true, we have members here that are living proof of this. But true for ourselves, time will tell, expert therapy can help and I notice that our most successfully sane trans still are in therapy... I have my next apt Monday and I need it.
I am glad you are still getting help - your dysphoria swings can be extreme at times. A little paranoia on my own side, personally - mentally, I understand myself, but the desire to overreach from my current position exists. I know to a certain degree, it is a case of looking at the grass on either side of a fence and sitting on it, one leg dangling on either side, kicking the turf.
Quote
I chose stability, and safe choices in presentation.
Quote
But regardless, we step out in faith all the time as trans. We are spirits of courage and of truth, in here. So enjoy your peace, your truth, and when the component gets strong, let her out safely, if I fight Satinjoy I am in big trouble. I must unconditionally love her and help her. It was a rough morning for me I needed to be fully transitioned and couldn't get the moment to do so, had to settle on inside focus with male outerwear. If I lose focus, if I forget that appearance is not what this is about to me, nor vanity, then I can get into big trouble real quick.
Sorry to hear about the rough day. I hope a better one awaits tomorrow.
Funnily enough, I don't really feel the need to dress to appease the dysphoria, insomuch as the need for actual social transition itself - but doing so requires a deconstruction and reconstruction that I am unwilling to subject my family to. The clothes are merely part of the package so to speak. The curiosity is there regarding how much change HRT will induce, but that is a mere clinical curiosity, rather than a desperate need.
Luna
So things are pretty much under control in regards to your gender identity?
A little wish, desire, thoughts of what could or might be.
A normal part of most everything in life is like this.
It's comforting to hear this from people here.
We all deal with being who we are in the ways we think are best.
When we are at least somewhere near were we wish to be at this time, being who we are has the feeling of normal we seek.
All in all, it's refreshing to know that things are stable, not perfect, but who's life really is?
You bring a sense of confidence in your comments.
A pondering, that you share with others here.
You bring this to our conversations, not an urgency, but the possibilities in a discussion.
A way of confirmation, about who we are, who you are.
Another way of living as non-binary.
Thank you.
Ativan
Quote from: luna nyan on July 17, 2014, 06:18:58 AM
One thing I've noticed recently about myself is that I have reached a position where I claim to say that "I have peace for my time". The noise is dulled, the physical changes are stalled, I'm productive at work, and home life is good.
Mind you, this is pretty much akin to Neville Chamberlain's speech - the peace treaty between the various aspects of myself are in an uneasy truce, and my great fear is that one certain part of me may secretly be rearming.
Heaven help me if it gets away from me. It would be all too easy for me to say stuff it all, get a few therapy sessions, increase my dosages and go all the way. Getting rubber stamped would be easy in my case as I seem to be sound and sane to my treating health providers. Yet that in itself is an uneasy solution, as the cost of such, in all aspects, are not to my liking.
So I continue negotiating with myself, seeking ways for expression that will not compromise the path set before me, drawing strength from within and relying on my faith. Yet regardless, I know that this will always be a thorn, a locus, in my side that I will never be rid of, merely managed.
Luna Nyan
I confess that at times I fear that my non binary identity is a convenient fiction which I have developed and accept so that I can utilise it to justify a partial transition to MTA and avoid the extreme fallout which would follow if I simply swapped one binary for the other
However in my more lucid moments I know that I no longer belong in a blue box than I belong in a pink box. I know that low dose hrt keeps me in a very rich place with no dysphoria and partial feminisation, and my androgyny I can signal to others through appropriate grooming, hair removal, clothing etc. This feels like this is the right place for me at this stage of my journey. From here I can enhance and express both so called M or F characteristics or attributes. Perhaps it is more of a challenge because genetic males are more norm constrained than their sisters but a non binary identity and andro presentation appeals as there is much to learn in rising to this challenge
So should I take more of the addictive drug E and follow so many of my sisters into their binary translation or is that merely the easy and less confronting path? Is a full mtf transition an honest response and expression of my non binary identity or would it just be an easier and more travelled path? I have never been one to follow a fashion, or to follow the majority just because it is the more usual strategy so why should I change now?
I think that our answers are as personal as our identities are unique. We can but pose the questions and then answer them as honestly as we are able.
The questions may change as may the answers. This is a good thing and is the means by which we set our course and express our spirit.
Safe travels
Aisla
Quote from: luna nyan on July 18, 2014, 07:00:13 AM
Everyone, thank you for your replies, I appreciate them.I understand this, and to be honest, I know my self worth. Yet it is something that vexes me and keeps me grounded as a flawed being.I've chosen my current path more due to circumstance, and my personal oaths of duty. Should I transition at this point in time, the things I vowed to do, which are more important to me than my gender identity, I would fail in doing, and that to me would be worse than death.It is hard for me to accept being in the middle so to speak. I am one of strong conviction, and sometimes muddling about in the middle so to speak is frustrating. Being a cultural chimera often wears poorly on me, except when I am messing with people's heads.
Very true. But the cost of fighting can be horrendous, and it isn't one that I can readily pay. I understand, and mostly accept this, but it can be difficult at times.
I am glad you are still getting help - your dysphoria swings can be extreme at times. A little paranoia on my own side, personally - mentally, I understand myself, but the desire to overreach from my current position exists. I know to a certain degree, it is a case of looking at the grass on either side of a fence and sitting on it, one leg dangling on either side, kicking the turf.Sorry to hear about the rough day. I hope a better one awaits tomorrow.
Funnily enough, I don't really feel the need to dress to appease the dysphoria, insomuch as the need for actual social transition itself - but doing so requires a deconstruction and reconstruction that I am unwilling to subject my family to. The clothes are merely part of the package so to speak. The curiosity is there regarding how much change HRT will induce, but that is a mere clinical curiosity, rather than a desperate need.
Luna
Great thread. Strong resonance for me across the board, with everyone.
Social transition vs an internal transition is of interest. I have no desire to socially transition to another presentation. Totally happy socially genderqueer.
The perception on my personal dysphoric swings took me by surprise. I would be curious as to others perceptions of this here. I think it is part of fluidity for me.
The clothes or the presentation per se are needed for me in terms of recharging. My wife graciously gave me time this morning to isolate and to be fully female transitioned. I needed it, it felt good to be me, and once expressed and Satinjoy was released to relax in heels for a half hour, the dysphoria relaxed and my objection to the mirror vanished, as I transitioned on the way to work into my more male social mode of coping and relating, while remaining fully mtf TS under the shell of an outward appearance. And still, gender neutral at the core. Its complicated.
The oaths of family commitment are shared by a number of others here, notably Aisla and myself are extremely committed to this, and there are others. It is commendable, honorable, and very important to me that we succeed in keeping that together, while still being true to ourselves and our core genders.
The idea of fighting dysphoria is of interest. I used to fight it and it gained power. Now I don't fight it and it is peaceful, meaning I do not fight any component. But, I will not allow physical dysphoria to dominate my actions. Trans from the inside out not outside in, maybe a bit contradictory, but a lady in jeans is still a lady regardless of her appearance.
Peace in non binary - peace with being trans - is wonderful and I think indicates balance and health in some way.
The shrink - I do not underestimate the power of dysphoria and Nero's passing has me wide awake and I will continue to see the shrink. He is good at blowing up distorted thinking for me.
A binary transition to me is not the easy path at all. Especially if it is not fully based on who we are, not who we feel pressured to be either socially, physically or dysphorically.
The addictive nature of E is something I shut down on. I am on heavy dosages of injected estradiol cypionate, which has a narcotic effect on me. There is no way I would voluntarily discontinue that. But the low dose scenario is not appropriate or desired for me at all.
Am I unstable or contradictory? I don't think so, but I think I am a bit complex in my triune perception of identity, physical, core and social.
God Bless. Feeling good here, love this thread.
Blessings and love to all here.
One more thing, sorry
Luna you sound remarkably stable and sane to me, a great asset to the non binary forum
I apologize for talking of my own experiences but I don't know other ways to share experience strength and hope with others. I hope it has value, at least it is honest.
And if I recall you are not married yet - my memory was damaged and HRT affects it when dosages are adjusted - so if I am off on that, I apologize.
I don't wish to be selfish, self serving or ego driven on the board. I just want to share with other people like me. Who I never met until I came here.
I pray you have consistant peace and truth in yourself and enjoy the being of trans, the state of uniqueness we all share together.
Love to all, need you all, God Bless.
Talking about our experiences, good and bad is very important here.
That's what adds value to the topics, it's what they are usually about.
It's a difficult thing to do for some, so they read and learn, maybe to share their's someday as well.
To be able to express our experiences has it's own value for us as individuals.
If they are read by others, they then have another value and it is for those who read them.
No matter how our experiences are projected, they always have value to them one way or another.
Ativan
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on July 18, 2014, 08:23:07 AM
So things are pretty much under control in regards to your gender identity?
A little wish, desire, thoughts of what could or might be.
Well, I know myself. I am at heart, mtf. I live as mta for reasons that I have previously outlined. Life isn't going to be, as they say, "beer and skittles", regardless of what I do. But I have a peace of sorts with where things are. I seem to go into deep introspection every 10 years or so, and this is one of those times.
Quote from: Aisla on July 18, 2014, 08:27:34 AM
I confess that at times I fear that my non binary identity is a convenient fiction which I have developed and accept so that I can utilise it to justify a partial transition to MTA and avoid the extreme fallout which would follow if I simply swapped one binary for the other
...
I think that our answers are as personal as our identities are unique. We can but pose the questions and then answer them as honestly as we are able.
The questions may change as may the answers. This is a good thing and is the means by which we set our course and express our spirit.
And that indeed is the crux of the matter. I've openly stated my status. And I'm living it. And the honest answer is that I live as mat as the logistics of mtf simply don't work well enough for me to make it worth it. It is, of course a value judgement call, and may change, but for the last 10 years, the answer has been no.
My only regret is the fact that I did not learn of low dose HRT sooner. It would have saves me a few binge and purge cycles. I have no issue with doing that, and no shame in it - I let her out, felt better, and at the end, discard the crutch when I no longer need it. (Besides, I like to keep in fashion...)
Quote from: Satinjoy on July 18, 2014, 11:11:18 AM
Social transition vs an internal transition is of interest. I have no desire to socially transition to another presentation. Totally happy socially genderqueer.
The oaths of family commitment are shared by a number of others here, notably Aisla and myself are extremely committed to this, and there are others. It is commendable, honorable, and very important to me that we succeed in keeping that together, while still being true to ourselves and our core genders.
The idea of fighting dysphoria is of interest. I used to fight it and it gained power. Now I don't fight it and it is peaceful, meaning I do not fight any component. But, I will not allow physical dysphoria to dominate my actions. Trans from the inside out not outside in, maybe a bit contradictory, but a lady in jeans is still a lady regardless of her appearance.
Peace in non binary - peace with being trans - is wonderful and I think indicates balance and health in some way.
The addictive nature of E is something I shut down on. I am on heavy dosages of injected estradiol cypionate, which has a narcotic effect on me. There is no way I would voluntarily discontinue that. But the low dose scenario is not appropriate or desired for me at all.
Am I unstable or contradictory? I don't think so, but I think I am a bit complex in my triune perception of identity, physical, core and social.
God Bless. Feeling good here, love this thread.
Blessings and love to all here.
Some very good points here. There are significant differences, but great common ground with many here.
Quote from: Satinjoy on July 18, 2014, 12:17:11 PM
One more thing, sorry
Luna you sound remarkably stable and sane to me, a great asset to the non binary forum
I apologize for talking of my own experiences but I don't know other ways to share experience strength and hope with others. I hope it has value, at least it is honest.
And if I recall you are not married yet - my memory was damaged and HRT affects it when dosages are adjusted - so if I am off on that, I apologize.
Thank you for the compliment. But you should know, it's the pleasant neighbour who is most likely to be an axe murderer... >:-)
Sharing of experiences allows alternate perspectives and has great value. Do not doubt that. I wish that more people would realise their self worth - many of the postings from people crying for help upset me. A dark place isnt a good place to be.
As for status - married with kids. That is all that I will ever elaborate on in that regard - I keep them out of my discussions here as much as I can.
My stability arises from sheer mule headed stubbornness and a stoicism that has been ingrained from a young age. Things are, and if you can't change it, take the good and move on.
We are here for you. The accomodations I make for family are dysphorically painful, the gains priceless. It's worth it.
Quote from: EchelonHunt on July 17, 2014, 09:20:36 AM
Being non-binary offers endless possibilities of fluidity. A million chances of being who you are without restraint or care to the society and gender rules surrounding yourself.
It is a wonderful gift, not a curse. It never will be fixed - no, not entirely, it is a bittersweet sense of freedom.
Embrace it, my dear friend. As they say, "This is not the end, this is only the beginning."
(If you were not referring to your non-binary identity, please excuse everything I have said and I apologize profusely.)
Going back to the OP and Echelon's response the success of low dose HRT is astounding but like Luna Nyan says "heaven help me if it gets away from me"
There is always the siren's song luring me onwards, larger dosage, the promise of greater benefit. There is always the periodic need to reset and scale back. So far, so good.
But, my brain seems to be continuing its rewiring. I am more empathetic and I do feel more connected. Slowly but surely I seem to be caring more and more about others and less and less about my career, my job, sports, hobbies and those things which had been important to me pre HRT. I am not complaining as I enjoy relationships more, particularly with women. I like to dress and present more carefully. I like to be more manicured etc. But at the same time I do worry that while the dosages have remained relatively consistent and my physical changes are not pronounced, my personality and my priorities are continuing to change
Does this tension persist or do you become more accepting or yourself as you ease into not so much the 'new you' but your 'essential or inner you'?
Safe travels
Aisla
I have so much to say and no time.
On high dose, there is a sedating effect from estradiol. However the mental affects are not great, that I can see.
What changed is my perception of trans. I am more comfortable in who I am. That allows greater expression, less repression, more comfort, and the discomfort of unnavigated change.
That being said, dysphoria is tricky and takes whatever it can, in and of me. Only through the acceptance of absolute boundaries am I able to overcome this, and once accepted, I can relax into it. Fear then evaporates as I begin to rest in my choices and move on.
But as to the effects of E, in me, and we are all apparently different according the the drs and shrinks, it is more physical. True the sports and aggression has faded, but how much of this was to escape the pain of dysphoria? The pain of non acceptance of self? Running hard to not feel, total involvement of the mind, for me by racing... or by anything consuming. Healthy or unhealthy.
So do we fear our trans natures or embrace, set boundaries or panic, find ourselves, deny ourselves or learn that uncluttered clarity of thought shows us the truth of who we are and who we choose to reveal.
ALso the validation of others and specifically our mates, when not there, hurts. That is an individual thing. My wife cannot handle a full transitioned presentation, but I see more and more growth and peace as the lines drawn in the sand and the assurance that I am working with my shrink and the trusted of the forum to remain stable and remain familiar to her from the neck up become more accepted to her as real, and her fear of me changing subsides, leaving us to rediscover each other in a new relationship with old foundations, but now based in total truth and freedom from deception, whether self deception or deliberate veils of ourselves that were birthed in fear.
Just thoughts. I don't think our minds change but our perception of ourselves as people of trans changes and that reflects in our behavior and desire to be out.
But left unchecked, dysphoria probably will run to a full physical transition, because the image in the mirror jars with the image we have of ourselves sometimes painfully. There are many healthy ways to rationalize out of that, especially by valuing our birth gender and seeing it as attractive from the perspective of our other components, and valuable as a gift to our loved ones, while we give ourselves the gift of self acceptance and of honoring the integrity we have as true mates of our loved ones, standing up for their needs and giving them the gift of our very lives. And not allowing ourselves to buy into being binary when we are not.
God Bless, enjoy your day.
I may have more again. Cherish your wives and your commitments to them. It is exemplary.
Although it is my personal quest to find a way to find peace with my gender issues without HRT and SRS, it may not be possible, and even if it is possible for me, it might not be for some, or perhaps most. I did have this peace, for the most part, when I was a child and a teenager. If I could have this peace in a teenage boy's testosterone filled body, why can't it be possible now?
I maybe could find peace more easily with HRT, that's not what I seek, at least not right now. I developed a number of bad habits in my attempt to not deal with these issues, and I feel like I need to deal with those first, especially my drinking, before I make permanent changes to my body. Although I'm doing a lot better, I still wonder if part of me is still using this as an excuse to not totally sober up for awhile, as in, this was all just some stupid thing I did when I was drunk and bored. If I were to be totally sober for weeks or months, and was still posting on here and wearing an outfit like this, I'd be totally sure that I'm trans, even though I already know that, there's still just that tiny sliver of deniability if I'm still drinking.
It's funny, I had these same thoughts as a kid, before I ever had a sip of alcohol. That sliver of deniability wasn't ever really there, but it served as an excuse to continue this cycle for so long, I still act like it's there. I have, however, proven that no amount of alcohol will make me permanently forget that I'm trans.
VeronicaLynn,
Your quest to do so is admirable, but the peace that you seek may be ephemeral. I've been aware of my issues from the time I was 6, but I was a compliant child and didn't press the issue.
I've tried the three Ds - distraction, denial, and delusion, and with each one I found a short peace of sorts, and then my feelings always returned. You have my admiration if you can carry on as is - do you have a strong support network?
Personally, I find that under stressful situations, the male construct that I carefully maintain begins to crumble. Fortunately, my threshold is fairly high - the question always is, are my trans feelings an escape during those periods of time. But introspection shows me that I can have dysphoric bouts to a lesser degree at other times.
I think that self acceptance is key - knowing ones true nature then allows one the process to make peace with oneself by taking appropriate steps.
Quote from: VeronicaLynn on July 24, 2014, 11:35:11 PM
Although it is my personal quest to find a way to find peace with my gender issues without HRT and SRS, it may not be possible, and even if it is possible for me, it might not be for some, or perhaps most. I did have this peace, for the most part, when I was a child and a teenager. If I could have this peace in a teenage boy's testosterone filled body, why can't it be possible now?
I maybe could find peace more easily with HRT, that's not what I seek, at least not right now. I developed a number of bad habits in my attempt to not deal with these issues, and I feel like I need to deal with those first, especially my drinking, before I make permanent changes to my body. Although I'm doing a lot better, I still wonder if part of me is still using this as an excuse to not totally sober up for awhile, as in, this was all just some stupid thing I did when I was drunk and bored. If I were to be totally sober for weeks or months, and was still posting on here and wearing an outfit like this, I'd be totally sure that I'm trans, even though I already know that, there's still just that tiny sliver of deniability if I'm still drinking.
It's funny, I had these same thoughts as a kid, before I ever had a sip of alcohol. That sliver of deniability wasn't ever really there, but it served as an excuse to continue this cycle for so long, I still act like it's there. I have, however, proven that no amount of alcohol will make me permanently forget that I'm trans.
Oh boy.
I used trans as the excuse for alcohol. In the end, alcohol is its own excuse, none others were needed, for I personally am an alcoholic. That fact permeates every post I make.
What alcohol will do is create all kinds of ways for me to self deceive and give me bigger problems so that my trans problems become smaller in comparison.
And, it gave me the excuse to be trans without any kind of guilt or social programming crap that is negative against trans.
The question then comes, is it bad to be trans.
I would scream out NO.
So then it moves into self acceptance, moreover, self embracing, for all of the positive things I continue to post about who we are.
I was born trans. Under different nurturing, there would not have been an issue, just a normal perception that I am third gender. Instead, the as----oles in life ate me for breakfast.
Nobody needs an excuse for alcohol. It just is. Nobody needs an excuse for being trans. It just is too. But, we are responsible for what happens as a result of booze, and for what needs to happen as a result of being born trans. We need to accept this and all its consequences. What are the consequences? That answer is an individual one.
I also was born alcoholic, by the way. One drink and its like a switch goes off in my head, feeling like I belong, happy, etc. Until it came an inch from killing me from blood poisoning.
I'm not neg on drinking either, not if you can do it safely. I am however neg on self deception because that has killed a number of my friends.
Don't read any kind of chastising tone here. Just sharing what happened to me in case it helps.
Quote from: luna nyan on July 25, 2014, 07:51:42 AM
VeronicaLynn,
Your quest to do so is admirable, but the peace that you seek may be ephemeral. I've been aware of my issues from the time I was 6, but I was a compliant child and didn't press the issue.
I've tried the three Ds - distraction, denial, and delusion, and with each one I found a short peace of sorts, and then my feelings always returned. You have my admiration if you can carry on as is - do you have a strong support network?
Personally, I find that under stressful situations, the male construct that I carefully maintain begins to crumble. Fortunately, my threshold is fairly high - the question always is, are my trans feelings an escape during those periods of time. But introspection shows me that I can have dysphoric bouts to a lesser degree at other times.
I think that self acceptance is key - knowing ones true nature then allows one the process to make peace with oneself by taking appropriate steps.
Under stress I think all of our dysphoria levels generally go up. I don't think there is anything wrong with that either. Mine goes up.
My need to escape is fairly constant. But what was I escaping from..... that turns out to be the big question for me. Running away from...
Could drive myself nuts with it.
Self acceptance became the difference between insanity and joy. It is a huge key in my life. Not self tolerance. Self acceptance. Self respect. For what really matters in my life.
The male is out, why is my male side out.... weird
I think our male components are all talking to each other and we start relating to each other differently
More fun... what a fascinating thing it is to be us
Be well
I put myself through what turned out to be far more stress than I had signed up for when I was twenty years old. Trying the man-up thing, to get rid of what seemed like another side of me that I had taken all I could stand while growing up. I thought it would work, it was a tough enough job to begin with. Not to long into it, things went horribly wrong around me and I felt I had no choice but to help others who need it. The stress was enormous. The intertwined thoughts that I still have and had back then, the ones I have referred to as reflections of gender for a lack of a better way to say it, started to become untwined (is that even a word?) and there became a separation, a dysphoric bout that I had no idea what it was about. I had a girl friend at the time, a transsexual who was doing well without, as far as I know, any HRT, no surgery and quite simply I took as who she was on her terms, which were some of the best of times during the worst of times. I wouldn't have made it past it all had it not been for her attitude and drive to just be.
But the stress levels continued, I took on even more stress in a different job description, to put that mildly. The increases in stress would bring about past memories and even further increase these routine divisions that I had no idea the effect they were having on me. I attributed them to the situation at the time and just told myself to buck up and continue on this same path. It really didn't take all that much time before things really did go horribly wrong for others and I ended up becoming a part of it as a witness and a participant. Bad move on my part, but one I couldn't turn away from. The split became so overwhelming it almost killed me by my reactions to it. I had no idea the damage that had been done. I don't know the real end of it, there is a lot of missing time involved with it, and I suspect numerous ECT's done bilaterally caused that.
It took until much the same thing happened, but to a lesser degree around five years ago with yet another ECT and memory loss that I suppose turned simply dreams into nightmare scenarios that along with the determination to find out what this stuff in my head was about. I learned about being trans, about how it was for me, and eventually found out a lot about those missing memories. That was when I realized just what the hell had happened and how I came to understand what this intertwined thinking was. More of the story came out and I'm still finding out more.
Stress, at least for me induced extreme dysphoria that I denied and accepted at the same time, I had no choice, no therapy, nothing to go on, with the exception of very patient girlfriend who just happened to be trans. But I still have to deal with the nightmares, they bring on fits of stress and dysphoria still, but I now know why. I read into this when I read comments here at times. I read what you all have written above and it just went off again, the same as when I read it the first time. Stress is such a major factor in this for me. I said yesterday that I have my own strategies. None of them involve anything that remotely is addicting with the exception of minor adrenaline rush's, the real addiction problem I do have. Alcohol, drugs, I've tried them all and they only induced even more of the need to push them because of the added stress that pushed on the effects of dysphoria.
I really don't know if it's anywhere near the same for those of you who have tried to dampen it through the use of alcohol and/or drugs. It simply doesn't work, ends up making things worse through the stress alone from to much of them. Even as a temporary escape they are a dangerous thing to fool with.
Low dose ended up being very key to my being able to live and not be walking around with a hidden anger that was barely under control, and sometime bits of it would come out anyways. I hate myself even more when that happens, because I know what the effects it will have on the dysphoria that still exists.
If you think you can find yourself, find a temporary release from dysphoria through this type of behavior, it will catch up with you eventually. I've tried to do this far too many times to know it's true.
Stop it, plain and simply said, much harder to actually do. But it is possible, you need to find the way. How you will go about it is for you to find, I'm no help with that. I'm one of those people who has a very high resistance to addictions from alcohol and drugs. But I have used them in quantities that are too far over the top and for far too long at times. It will always catch up to you.
You can't run away from the truth, it's durable in nature and withstands anything you throw at it.
Find a way. Look for the possibilities that don't seem to be there, they might show themselves to you, I don't know. But you will never know if you don't try. Again something easily said, but hard to do. But it needs to be done, you have to find yourself and come to terms with it,.. at the least get it under control in a way that will let you find a way to diminish it's effects, if not end the dysphoria once and for all. I know it's possible,it can be done. People have found ways that work for them, I have strategies that are working pretty well, ones that I can use. Find the strategies that will work for you.
Ativan
Real quick and I want to hear back on this one
In therapy this week I asked what the h dysphoria is anyway, was told it was discomfort with the birth body, and that I would always have a measure of this.
In spite of heavy estrogen, which you know I love, I still have acceptable levels of dysphoria. My boobs are too small, gut too big, shoulders large, and on an on, but it is slowly, slowly improving there.
Bottom line, is it possible for dysphoria to "go away". What the heck is dysphoria anyway. All I know is I feel better with the right hormones in me and with all these changes and therapy and Susans and you.
I don't think that is true for me, that I can stop dysphoria. And having accepted that, I am totally fine with it, since I buy in that this is the truth for me as I understand it, I wont fight it, and it is the fighting that is destructive, in my case personally. I don't fight it any more. I have many ways of handling that, including being trans from the inside out, where body dysphoria is not relevant to presentations... a lady in a costume here, but still a lady, yet not a lady. A Satinjoy.
But crystal clear, stuffing it or shutting it down with chemicals or running away from it is futile. It has to be handled differently, for me, by understanding, centering, truth, and as far as E is concerned, that to me just repairs a hormone deficit. I'm in a psych ward without it, or dead.
Thoughts?
If your body image bring mental anguish when you think about it, catch a glimpse in a mirror, hate those pics taken of you...
That's dysphoria.
It can be extreme anguish to the point of hating yourself, being angry at the world or universe.
It can be a bothersome thing that keeps you awake at night.
It can be a fleeting moment of discomfort in your thinking about self.
The degree to which it affects you, how you handle it is up to you to decide the outcome.
We all have a different way of perceiving it and reacting to it.
For some of us, it's personal. To some it's worthwhile to talk about.
I can talk about it, it's hard to talk about some of it's effects on me...
It really hard on me to talk about some of the things I have endured because of it.
I imagine that's pretty much how most of us feel at one time or another, maybe all the time for some.
Is it possible to get rid of it? Absolutely. Plenty of people have said they have done just that.
I believe them, but kind of feel that the memories of it sticks around, it's one of those things that you might never forget.
But the memories will fade, it will take prompting to remember them, the feeling will fade as well.
It's definitions are fuzzy around the edges.
Ativan
I am going to sound a bit dumb now, and that's ok.
So, by changing my body too female, I now feel better, 90% more comfortable with it, even though no-op. Postop would be in line with my image, but isn't practical.
So, now that I feel that way, now that I like what I see in the mirror, does that then by definition mean the dysphoria is mitigated, as in gotten rid of?
In other words, dysphoria is not describing a person who changed their sex, it describes how a person sees themselves in the mirror or socially as a mismatch from who they are to who they perceive in the mirror?
God help me if I trigger anyone in here. But here is the thing, if there was a cure for dysphoria for me that did not involve hormones and transitioning, then I just put my family through total hell by accident by believing the only way out for me was hormonal.
I do feel quite good about my body and all that now. Way, way better.
As to the memories of the pain, and the results, and what happened because, I don't know yours although it sounds horrific, but I do know mine, and I do not for one second want to minimize anyone's experience in here with living as we have with our special challenge.
The anguish, fleeting moment, bothersome thing, hatred of pics, all of that, I identify with. It took decades to accept photographs of me, I hated that face, not because it was male, but because the effects of DES were so obvious and I could see the trans in me I had been taught to hate, and then that I became, and now cherish, after a ton of work on myself.
To get rid of dysphoria. If it means get a new body that is acceptable, I guess I am 90% to goal. If it means not being an mtf nb transsexual, no, I doubt it.
I hope I did not misunderstand your post Ativan, I am trying to understand it through the mental filter of my own trans-ness and that can be a little hard to do. And I am hijacking the thread because what I really want to do is help the OP, reinforcing the idea of low dose being great because it helps so many others here, accepting being trans, and learning how to turn that into a positive thing.
More thoughts?
Fuzzy definitions. I like fuzzy things anyway.
100% agree with everything here by the way. Just trying to understand this stuff, owning choices made, worrying about everyone else, staying sane.
Love to all... I keep being fluid today... it is interesting usually I am centered or quite female on the forum.
Every person is different.
I managed my dysphoria with binge/purge wardrobe cycles. I know many on these forums feel guilty on these cycles, but to me, it was easier to deal with than head shrinking, HRT, and transition. On each cycle I felt better at the end, purged, knowing that later I'd be rebuilding the wardrobe.
Didn't really acquire a taste for alcohol, and "recreational" drugs and their effects were just too plain nasty, thank The Lord.
I only moved onto low dose HRT as a means of controlling my dysphoria when I realised that the onset of middle age male changes were starting, and I knew I was at risk. That's worked out for me - I know I'm always going to be trans, but if I delay transition for 10 years, or avoid it altogether, I've won.
Truthfully, my only dysphoria left is genital. To me what's between my legs is so wrong I can't even stand to see it or worse, touch it when going to the bathroom. As I've said in another thread, I keep a large dish towel by my toilet to throw over my crotch even while peeing. While my hrt has tamed and nearly abolished other types of dysphoria I was suffering, It hasn't put a dent in my genital dysphoria. Only SRS will do that which, if all goes well I'll be having this December. For me I must go all the way, for life isn't worth living otherwise.
I truly do feel for the discomforts those of you commenting in this thread are going through. And it has been very interesting in my understanding of my transgender sisters whom are able to get by without hrt or surgery.
Allie :icon_flower:
I had a long chat again with an mtf close friend who found me on the forum and invervened during the second crash.
I clarified some things, how lucky I am, how stable I am, and how unstable I got as a result of overwhelming stress out there in the life on life's terms scenarios.
This idea of curing dysphoria, I think it's so unique to so many of us, each of us totally different, as Ativan has said, each with our own unique solutions.
I don't currently have any dysphoric pain, and am discovering new ways of self perception and freedom all the time. Very much at peace with my body, and now again my face and hair - perception is reality I see the girl with the short hair again, and can ignore the facial hair that is my gift to my wife, and my political statement now about being genderqueer.
But I have had serious therapy, have serious friends on this board in here, have serious prayer partners who are normies and know my secret and the angst it causes me when the Christians go after us, since I am very serious in that relationship to the Lord... I brought every weapon I have to bear on surviving hitting the wall of trans, and it has worked excedingly well for the last two months, since I came here to the NB forum from the MTF forum.
All of which is to affirm what each of us are saying here. It's different for all of us. We all cope differently.
I need everyones prayer support please or if not that then your forum support. I am really out of control at work, too much stress, it is at extreme levels now, and the only thing holding me together is my faith, this forum, and oddly enough, being this unique transsexual that seems to be so different from everyone everywhere, yet somehow is so the same.
I would hate to survive transitioning GQ and then lose all over economics and being unable to focus at work due to other issues or due to the side effects of HRT, which will pass, but I have to get through that period of brain fog where the serums rise and the doses increase. I should be really close to that now.
Me, me me, I am sick of me always in the threads talking about me. Its supposed to be about you, your needs, your discomfort, how you can feel better and more safe being who you are, how you can enjoy living in your body and accept your core self unconditionally and be free of judging yourself for being trans, and then hopefully in that security get more free and relaxed socially.
Its the weekend I probably will be off forum, focussing on the family's needs.
Been a while Ally, nice to hear from you sweatie. I love your innocence girl, and I know you struggle.
Blessings. Relaxing gq and about 80% transition, my normal home presentation, what a gift that is. Just missing the dress wig and heels, the rest is just genuine me, physically both male and female now. Just depends on the angle of the lighting, where your eyes may land, and above all, its the smoke and mirrors of perception from the binary or non binary glasses we wear coloring how we see what we see.
I'm a little unstable tonight, my appologies to the forum. It happens, but I'm a whole lot better than I used to be.
Love to all here.
This thread keeps on giving. It keeps generating new thoughts and old memories. In the past I knew that stress typically kicked off an overwhelming need to cross dress. Much later this and other symptoms led me to being diagnosed as TG.
I know my dysphoria is real, that it has only strengthened over time, that it can be managed by low dose HRT. Like others my endo encourages me to take responsibility for dialling the dosage to meet my objectives.
Yes there is an element of physical dysphoria but I don't seek or need a binary transition. I like minor physical change and I have had FAS (FFs with and andro objective), hours of facial and body hair removal, and flexed my presentation, but I feel non binary to the core.
If emotional dysphoria is a meaningful term, then this is where my dysphoria finds full expression. Having accessed the emotional depth and sensate life that HRT provides, I wonder whether this is more critical to me than physical change. When I have stopped or dialled back HRT too far, the return of emotional dysphoria or blindness is crippling.
This makes me wonder, whether the original urge to cross dress, which intensified when under stress, was and has nothing to do with a need for physical change, rather it was all about satisfying a desperate need for a richer life and spiritual experience.
Not sure this makes a lot of sense, as it already feels contradictory. Perhaps the physical, the emotional and presentation dysphoria are each important, but differently weighted over time, inextricably linked and interdependent.
Safe travels
Aisla
I was going to answer SJ's comment after mine, got sidetracked, SJ know's why, a temporary look at something else.
Looks like it has generated a better answer that I had anyways.
Luna, cycles, yep. It seems to cycle a lot for me, smaller ones inside of bigger ones.
Allie, hope all goes well this Dec. When it's bad it's really bad. The kind that I never want to see anyone have to go through.
It's really nice that your day is coming, it seems to be happening for more people all the time, always nice to hear about.
Aisla, It is contradictory. Always the same but different for everyone. The most perplexing thing about talking about it.
It holds back suggestions for some, makes suggestions for others hard to follow.
The diversity for all trans people when it comes to dysphoria seems to be in this same kind of thing, that no matter what we say or do, it's different, yet we all relate at the same time.
The different levels and the different types that we go through, the language we use, none of it seems to be all that helpful, yet it is because we all know and care deeply about it not only for ourselves but for everyone.
Those who are lucky to have it be nonexistent or at such low levels to be nothing more than bothersome, I think you relate on your own levels as well.
There are so many different things that can cause so many different ways we feel about it, it is a very complex thing, the single biggest reason any of us who use a therapist, this is usually why.
There isn't a drug that is directly used to stop it, there are a number that can help, but that's all, just help and even that can be questionable for some.
No handbook, if there was it would be so big and clunky that by the time you got through it, it would either trigger it in a different way or simply drive you crazy with the complexity of it all.
Yet there is always the simplest of comments that can be made and they can and often do click something into place to at the least make it better or more bearable.
I have referred to it as the pain of being before. What we go though to avoid that pain. It's strong in what it can do.
Sure there are other things in life that that could be said the same of, but this is one that is confined to places like this forum and other places like it.
Not much in the way of proven or even studies done on it, let alone what to do with it, we are left to our own devices.
As much as I hate it and so many of us do, it does have that one thing about it though, we can relate on different levels and we do.
Might not sound like much, but when I think about that, it seems to help in itself, along with helping with other things.
Makes us special, dammit, even if it does hurt. So, you're special in a way you don't want to be, but we do it together and that's what I mean.
SJ, "Me, me me, I am sick of me always in the threads talking about me. Its supposed to be about you, your needs, your discomfort, how you can feel better and more safe being who you are, how you can enjoy living in your body and accept your core self unconditionally and be free of judging yourself for being trans, and then hopefully in that security get more free and relaxed socially."
Hah! I think this way all the time when I post things and use myself as a reference.
I think quite a few of us feel this way when writing about ourselves.
It is about you, and when it is it's just so you and appreciated around here.
I for one, wouldn't have it any other way for you, or anyone else.
You and everyone else who talks about their experiences are always adding something to the boards, never taking away.
Tell you what. You get out of hand and I will be forced to send you something in your inbox, so there. :icon_blah:
You and everyone have a good weekend. You deserve one.
Ativan
Quote from: Allyda on July 25, 2014, 06:05:09 PM
Truthfully, my only dysphoria left is genital. To me what's between my legs is so wrong I can't even stand to see it or worse, touch it when going to the bathroom. As I've said in another thread, I keep a large dish towel by my toilet to throw over my crotch even while peeing. While my hrt has tamed and nearly abolished other types of dysphoria I was suffering, It hasn't put a dent in my genital dysphoria. Only SRS will do that which, if all goes well I'll be having this December. For me I must go all the way, for life isn't worth living otherwise.
I truly do feel for the discomforts those of you commenting in this thread are going through. And it has been very interesting in my understanding of my transgender sisters whom are able to get by without hrt or surgery.
Allie :icon_flower:
The majority of my dysphoria is social, the pretty much the rest of it genital, though nowhere near as bad as that. I just don't really care about secondary traits all that much, but I'm also blessed to have a pretty androgynous body and face with relatively little body hair, I might feel differently in a different male body. I don't really feel bad looking in the mirror, if anything, I can't help staring at my beautiful naturally androgynous look, that I help along with the right clothes and hairstyle.
I also love it when women flirt with me when I nail my androgynous look, which I don't always, and then they don't flirt with me. Too far femme, and I'm unattractive to them, to far masculine, and I'm just another guy to them. It's what I live for, for her to make all the big moves, it really has to be that way, but a lot of women won't for whatever social reason.
Luna, I hope it's not ephemeral. I basically have no support network. Yeah, I do that too, thinking about this has been my escape from other pressures from time to time. I'm not sure how to totally accept it, maybe if I do ever totally sober up I will, that others are able to deal with this sober does give me strength.
Quote from: VeronicaLynn on July 26, 2014, 12:32:01 AM
Luna, I hope it's not ephemeral. I basically have no support network. Yeah, I do that too, thinking about this has been my escape from other pressures from time to time. I'm not sure how to totally accept it, maybe if I do ever totally sober up I will, that others are able to deal with this sober does give me strength.
Some would say empower yourself and take control of your situation and feelings.
If you're drinking a lot, get that under control first - I think it'd be hard to make a fair judgement call on yourself while under the influence so to speak.
My own personal support network is thin as well, but I am content. My personal experience was that gender peace was not possible without HRT - yours may differ of course.
Oh, and I had no idea that this thread would resonate so deeply with so many. It is reassuring to know others go through the same. Thank you all.
I had my doubts when I first read this thread due to taking what you said the wrong way and I apologize for that!
But the past week or so, due to struggling with my identity, I have reached a deeper understanding of what you have discussed. No need to thank us, thank YOU! :)
SJ,
Take care of yourself. Work is a means to an end, bonus and blessed if you enjoy your work.
Keep focus and compartmentalise, you'll get through it.
Luna
Interesting discussion.
Question: Do we cure GD or deal with it?
SJ and Luna, for their circumstantial reasons try to deal with it. Low dose HRT semi acceptance etc.
But given a chance would you cure it?
Since you know there is a cure, what is the logic of your argument?
I can't personally deal with it.
My family will (perceived?) suffer from it.
My social/economic/work standing will suffer (again perceived?).
I was in the same or similar place and fought like crazy, in the end my life was too important (selfish and I have no kids).
But if I did have kids it was a certainty that they may not have a father anyway. My social standing and professional standing ended up being minor to my being able to live.
It was not an easy decision, and yes I still suffer consequences. But I'm happy.
Thoughts?
Quote from: Cindy on July 26, 2014, 05:40:56 AM
Question: Do we cure GD or deal with it?
SJ and Luna, for their circumstantial reasons try to deal with it. Low dose HRT semi acceptance etc.
I would call it non surgical management. =)
As far as I'm concerned, GID is managed, not necessarily cured. The crux of the matter for me has always been what is the best management method.
Quote
But given a chance would you cure it?
For me, a true cure would either remove the dysphoric feelings completely and permanently without altering my current abilities (both physical and mental), or make me biologically functional as a female (ie have the appropriate biological bits and have possibility of reproduction). I'm narky for myself in that way. For others, the current treatment modalities may be more than acceptable and have been proven to be so.
Part of the reason I never transitioned was that I had reservations about the current treatments available and whether or not the final outcomes would have been satisfactory for my admittedly OCD standards of health care. It was the the feather that tipped things in the direction of non-transition when I was in my 20s.
If the possibility of either of my criteria for a cure were possible. Yes I would cure it in a half beat. Otherwise, it's current course as is until I can go no further.
Cindy, PM me if there are additional details that you want to ask that may help in your prep work for ANZPATH.
Quote from: luna nyan on July 26, 2014, 02:22:39 AM
Some would say empower yourself and take control of your situation and feelings.
If you're drinking a lot, get that under control first - I think it'd be hard to make a fair judgement call on yourself while under the influence so to speak.
My own personal support network is thin as well, but I am content. My personal experience was that gender peace was not possible without HRT - yours may differ of course.
Am technically sober right now, didn't really drink that much last night, though still a bit hungover feeling, as I always do these days when I'm not drunk. At this point, it's actually harder to deal with being non-binary when I'm drunk. It's so new a concept, that my old way of thinking tends to come back. I don't really want to totally quit, because I love to party, but I must for at least a short while to cement my new understanding of gender.
I don't think being non-binary is bad thing, it's certainly not something so terrible that I can't handle sober. Neither is becoming a MTF, it just doesn't seem the right path for me at this time. I think this path I'm heading down leads to something wonderful, though I guess this stretch of the path doesn't have any bars along the way. There are a lot of bars where it leads, but there's so much more there, I might not spend much time in them.
I'm sure one day they'll be an easy cure for this, as well as most everything else, by transplanting your brain into a perfect brainless body of your choice grown in a lab, though that day is probably 500 years from now.
Does sound like a good time to consider quitting drinking.
Going into any realization when drinking is essentially cheating yourself of all that it has to offer.
The last time I hung out in bars was when I realized they had become my support system.
Not the people, the bars themselves. Not a very good support system.
It was weird at first, but the longer I stayed away, the less I felt like going back.
There was a day that I did go back to the main bar in my life and there they were, the same bar stools, the same people.
To them, it was like old home week. To me, they were drunks.
Try going bar hopping without drinking once, you'll see the difference right away.
It's pretty sobering in itself.
It didn't take long before a lot of opportunities to have fun open up, I had missed them before while sitting in a bar.
Ativan
Actually managed to stay sober this late by spending the day out shopping, and trying everything on. Picked up a few androgynous items from both sides of the stores. Did pick up some wine at the grocery store as my last stop. There were a bunch of drunk fat old guys in the store, being all obnoxious. That half makes me not want to drink, but I will because I wasn't planning on going cold turkey, but I'll keep it to a minimum, so I can go shopping again tomorrow. Not sure that's really a healthy addiction either, at least for my pocketbook. I am still developing my style, and enjoy doing that sober.
As a sober alcoholic I have to comment something, but what....
Only that if it pulls on you, and it does not do that to "normies", and if it starts to screw with your life on any level, why not check out an AA meeting and see if you like it?
I came in to a meeting to get a free cup of coffee because I couldn't afford to buy one, and my life changed forever.
As to dealing with dysphoria, and the cure...
The answer for me is to be true to myself. My inner core. Total honesty.
Cure for me? Born trans? Can't see it, can only see becoming free to be me, while sensitive to loved ones needs, whether transphobic or not. Wife deserves to see the guy she married from the neck up, I made a sacred vow and I will keep it. Yes I do whatever in necessary to rationalize the unacceptable into the acceptable, for I must choose the lesser of two pain levels, dysphoric pain and mild rejection or at least no validation of trans by the one I love the most in this world, or the agony of being alone, losing everything, and quite possibly losing my life as a result.
So I choose the rationalization and then turn the whole thing into the most positive force of living trans as I can, making shock waves as a result that are strong enough to change attitudes, perceptions, respect and bring new understandings of who we are and who we can become.
Had I not been able to see through the binary perception to the falsity (FOR ME ONLY) of going to FTE female, then surely the shear power of dysphoria would have me seeking surgery and becoming a stacked female f-ck me doll. No disrespect, it is where it would take me personally, I know myself to well. I was one of these uncontrollable girls before I quit drinking, just without the t-ts. The last time I was in a bar, except to perform vocally, I was on my usual mission to get screwed. By anyone. Lucky for me I'd pass out first. I couldn't accept being trans, then when I'd had enough booze, onto the dance floor I would go, a bottle of champaigne in one hand and a vial of amyl nitrate in the other, shirt unbuttoned revealing the cami under it, and the guys knew a good peice of a.s was theirs if they wanted it. My life unchecked. Who I was, who I am if I pick up one drink.
So whats at stake for me here.
I'll take the love of an unselfish normie girl, intimacy without penetrations, love without limits, incense and candles and oils and music and laughter and having a home and kids... I'll take that any time over surrendering to a pure physical dysphoria hell bent on destroying the life I so carefully attempted to build, spiritually and physically.
And I still get to go to a very heavy genderqueer presentation with her, you can see right through the nylon tee shirts to what lies underneath. The gift of this is unimaginable in its grace to me. Would I like to be fully transitioned at rest, wigged and in heals and makeup and nylons and a nice skirt or dress like the Avatar that shows me actually quite accurately in full transition? Absolutely. But I can't. My wife can't handle it, not her fault, its who she is. But she accomodates my need to have "satinjoy time", she grasps that it is necessary to my mental survival.
Blessings and love to all here.
Quote from: Satinjoy on July 27, 2014, 05:59:26 PM
As a sober alcoholic I have to comment something, but what....
Only that if it pulls on you, and it does not do that to "normies", and if it starts to screw with your life on any level, why not check out an AA meeting and see if you like it?
I came in to a meeting to get a free cup of coffee because I couldn't afford to buy one, and my life changed forever.
I'm not sure I need to do that. Part of it is I don't want to give myself yet another label. I absolutely was abusing alcohol for awhile, because I didn't think I could handle this sober, while I can now, I don't know that I would have joined Susan's or read everything I have about it sober. I only had 4 glasses of wine last night, and I plan to start not drinking every night soon. In any case, I can't really claim to still be drunk from last night, or even hungover. I'm still bigender, it's not something that I can't handle sober. If it turns out I can't moderate my drinking now that I've officially accepted being trans sober, I will need to go to an AA meeting, or maybe even rehab. I think I'll be OK though now.
Going through AA is not necessarily the right thing for a person. One should see whether the 12 Step program (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-step#Twelve_Steps) resonates with them. 7 of the steps are tied to the existence of an almighty God (and a male one at that) who you call upon to help you resolve your problems. If you have secular attitudes about fixing with ails you, I would not recommend AA.
i folund it lifesaving.
Quote from: Kaelin on July 28, 2014, 09:45:40 AM
Going through AA is not necessarily the right thing for a person. One should see whether the 12 Step program (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-step#Twelve_Steps) resonates with them. 7 of the steps are tied to the existence of an almighty God (and a male one at that) who you call upon to help you resolve your problems. If you have secular attitudes about fixing with ails you, I would not recommend AA.
A lot of people see the 12 step program being tied to a male almighty God. Personally, I believe God is genderless, but that's beside my point. What those 7 steps refer to is Your Higher Power, which for some is a male almighty God but not all. You use whatever higher power you believe in, whether it be the grand puhbah, or an almighty God. What I'm saying is your higher power doesn't necessarily have to be an almighty male God. It can be whatever higher power you choose.
Please know I'm in no way advocating the use of 12 step programs. In fact, I'm not a drinker and I've never abused drugs. I was however back in the late 80's involved with a woman who was an alcoholic which is the only reason I have any insight into the matter. And my purpose with this comment is purely educational, nothing more.
Allie :icon_flower:
The gendered God is not one that applies to people in general but rather the "official" language adopted by AA. Besides what Wikipedia says of it, it is the wording that also appears on the official AA website (http://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/twelve-steps-and-twelve-traditions). Steps 3 and 11 in particular allude to a gendered God, but three others (5, 6, 7) point to "God" or "Him" (which appear to clearly intended as synonyms), and two others (2, 12) refer to religious language relating to God (given the other mentions of God in other steps):
Quote2. Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
The official language appears clear on this matter, but I would actually be surprised in God's male-ness is in any way central to the program. It's more that the program's philosophy is based on a certain cluster of Judeo-Christian belief systems. For people who do not share these beliefs -- people who don't worship a god or who believe it is irresponsible to invoke their god/gods/supernatural in this way -- AA is unlikely to be effective for them. For people who do approach God in this way, it's more likely to help them.
Mind, I haven't had experiences with drug abuse either, but I have compelled to participate in religious organizations and found they did not help me (and sometimes were rather harmful). This is not to say that stuff with a religious bent is bad (or bad for everyone), but AA's particular religious component is significant and should be acknowledged by anyone looking to engage themselves or others with the program.
I started reading this thread, primarily because I admire people who refuse to make an affirmative declaration regarding gender. I doubt that if we are really honest, that most of us in the trans community are at polar ends of the gender spectrum. I'm a girl/woman mostly, but certainly not entirely. The struggle with balance doesn't exist for me in the way here described. I can be a woman, live, feel, present as such, without abandoning the male identification that works. But I paid the price - sometimes (often times) I weep over that. So I admire you.
Estrogen and testosterone are not narcotics, if you get psychic relief it is not because of chemical dependency, but because of hormonal alignment. That is why we take it. It keeps us balanced. That said, alcoholism and drug dependency are pretty common here. Nero was our latest causality at Susan's, but there have been others.
Kaelin recited the steps. They were written in 1938 and derived from the six steps of the Oxford movement. The founders were Christian, but so what? Appendix two has one of the more profound statements in recovery and I quote.
"Most of our experiences are what the psychologist William James calls the "educational variety" because they develop slowly over a period of time. Quite often friends of the newcomer are aware of the difference long before he is himself. He finally realizes that he has undergone a profound alteration in his reaction to life, that such a change could hardly have been brought about by him alone. What often takes place in a few months could seldom have been accomplished by years of self-discipline. With few exceptions our members and that they have tapped an unsuspected inner resource which they presently identify with their own conception of a Power greater than themselves.
Most of us think this awareness of a Power greater than ourselves is the essence of spiritual experience."
Okay think about that. God is a shorthand for spiritual growth. Whatever your idea of psychic/spiritual power is can work. You need not ascribe gender, but you may if you wish. If you were a Christian man in 1938 that would likely be male in nature. For a trans woman in 2014, not so much.
You can be Wicca, Hindu, Christian, Buddhist or nothing at all and that unsuspected inner resource is available, can be tapped into and used to facilitate change. The steps are ego deflating, and internally transforming. Redemption through confession, examination, responsibility, and self sacrifice have been around for millennia. It seems to me that AA/NA works because it combines public support with honesty and growth. At least it has worked that way for me for over twenty-five years. I go to meetings because I love people there. I do service because it reinforces my commitment to the community.
Kinda sounds like Susan's huh. I am here to learn and grow. As a side benefit I have found friends that I love. Even better I can be of service and filled with purpose. A couple weeks ago, this same chorus pondered why we post. For me the short answer is so that I can live; so that the inevitable tension of male/female, yin/yang, masculine/feminine or other dichotomy definition doesn't leave me in shattered pieces once again.
Fair Winds and Smooth Seas,
Julie
Oh I certainly agree with you Kaelin, AA isn't for everyone nor did it help my SO back in the late 80's. Within a week after getting out of prison for her 3rd DUI that was in reality her 8th, she went right back to 1/2 gallon of Lord Calvert a day -sometimes two if she was partying. I couldn't take anymore so I left.
Allie :icon_flower:
What I don't like about the AA mindset is that they assume everyone is the same and no one an go from being a heavy drinker to being a social drinker. Maybe for some, they can't. I don't like other people to put limits on me. Just like I don't like people putting limits on me because I'm MAAB, or put limits on me because I'm trans. I can control my drinking, I did make a mistake of thinking I could control these transgender thoughts, and thought badly of myself because I couldn't. Drinking really is something different, it's a matter of not putting a glass up to your mouth more than you want to. Yes, I know it's harder than that, but it is possible, as compared to controlling these thoughts and feelings I have.
Still sober since this morning, and I think I'll stay for awhile longer, but then have a few glasses of wine before bed. I don't want to ever go back to where I was, I'm gradually getting better, and I really like not being hungover. I don't want to ever go back to drinking so much I feel bad the next day.
The one thing I am sure I want to change about my body is that I want to lose all this weight I gained by drinking so many extra calories, and then some. I was super skinny when I was a teenager, I wonder if I can be again, or at least wonder how thin I can be. At the very least, I preferred the way my body looked last year, I know I can get it back to there. I bothers me a bit that I'm shopping in the plus-size women's section.
The important thing is you know there is an identified resource that worked for a couple of us here for many years.
Your other decisions and your relationship with alcohol, is all yours.. not for us to interfere with.
But it is always good to have a safety net.
Julie and I need it and it worked for us. So, we share that, because we were helped. No other reason. If you like the way we think and talk, it is heavily AA influenced.
But to tell you what to do? Nope. I intensely dislike forcing of any kind.
Hope you can do the weight thing, Been there, done that. :) Enjoy your day
Quote from: VeronicaLynn on July 28, 2014, 11:05:35 PM
What I don't like about the AA mindset is that they assume everyone is the same and no one an go from being a heavy drinker to being a social drinker. Maybe for some, they can't. I don't like other people to put limits on me. Just like I don't like people putting limits on me because I'm MAAB, or put limits on me because I'm trans. I can control my drinking, I did make a mistake of thinking I could control these transgender thoughts, and thought badly of myself because I couldn't. Drinking really is something different, it's a matter of not putting a glass up to your mouth more than you want to. Yes, I know it's harder than that, but it is possible, as compared to controlling these thoughts and feelings I have.
Still sober since this morning, and I think I'll stay for awhile longer, but then have a few glasses of wine before bed. I don't want to ever go back to where I was, I'm gradually getting better, and I really like not being hungover. I don't want to ever go back to drinking so much I feel bad the next day.
The one thing I am sure I want to change about my body is that I want to lose all this weight I gained by drinking so many extra calories, and then some. I was super skinny when I was a teenager, I wonder if I can be again, or at least wonder how thin I can be. At the very least, I preferred the way my body looked last year, I know I can get it back to there. I bothers me a bit that I'm shopping in the plus-size women's section.
Moving from heavy to moderate social drinking? If you were as strung out as I was, that just doesn't work. I quit/moderated/socialized a thousand times, but always ended up staring at life from the bottom of a bottle. It's brain chemistry, the pleasure circuits and metabolic pathways for breaking down alcohol functionally change, they don't seem to change back. I dunno I haven't had a drink in 25 years, could I socially have a glass of wine with dinner? Maybe, but so what? I might also end up back in the bottle, that has been the experience of many people I have known over the years. It just isn't worth it to me.
So, by all means give social drinking a shot, if it doesn't work try abstinence for a while and see what happens (you'll lose some weight for sure). For me just not drinking put me in suicidal depression, it took more. For you, I dunno, find out I guess. What I do know is that spiritual growth inside or outside of AA brings on a happier life. Honesty and authenticity let us grow. Service and fellowship beats isolation and depression every time. Just saying ;)
Best of everything to you,
Julie
I wanted to revisit this thread, since the original post and topic hits so close to home.
Luna how is it going with keeping the balance together?
My dysphoria is increasing, or at least my need to see the body, which is transitioning, is getting stronger, but I am still able to maintain the boundaries needed to keep the marriage safe.
My need for the forum continues to be influencing time a lot, and I still need to stay focussed at work. At home, the lines have been drawn and i am off forum with family, on when I have my personal time and am female presenting when alone or with daughters that fully accept the GQ presentation, wigged or not wigged.
I enlist the aid of the shrink for this balancing need. Yesterday I asked how many genderqueer he has had out of his 200 patient experience.
Apparently i am the first, truly mixed male/female binaries GQ by that definition. Remarkable that the therapy has gone so well, but the question could be begged as to what I am still, with no diagnosis, strong mtf leanings, and no question in my mind that I am not a woman trapped within a mans body, nor am I a man trapped within a mans body. I am nonbinary and need a female body and to live socially as a male, but one that is GQ in presentation.
So checking in. Its harder for me now. But it is working and all is currently stable, in spite of the emotional intensity.
I once did a thread on "is transition inevitable". The non binary position was that it is not inevitable. The mtf position is that it was. The ftm or male oriented transitioners didn't really comment on it, I wish we had more involvement by our special male presenting friends on the female oriented non binaries, I love their wisdom and strenth and draw on it.
Blessings and gratitude....
SJ, on the male side this morning yet full transitioned presentation until I get out to work. How fluid.... interesting.
You sound a heck of a lot like me Luna.
SJ,
Here's the state of the onion as of this week.
I think I'm hormonal and snappy at people at the moment - my E levels peaked on my current implant 4 weeks ago and I'm on the downward trend with the E levels till October.
Dysphoria is under control. I do spend more time online than is healthy, but actively trying to give more time to the family. Funnily enough, I have no urge to dress. There has been minor leakage - the girls at work have finally commented on the shaped eyebrows. I just waved it off as they did need shaping as I do have some rather wild eyebrow hairs.
I was diagnosed MTF over 12 years ago, but borderline so. I would still say that I am MTF, but have knowingly put that aside for other goals that are more important to me. If I get to 55 years age without transition, I would say that I've won as I would have accomplished pretty much all but one life aim.