Just kind of curious if how you perceive the different sexes had changed in any way. A male or females personality or anatomy any different. Is your concept of relationships changed. Not necessarily how you perceive another's anatomy .How you perceive another's thought process . Does a males thought process register differently being on estrogen. Like having a close friend pre HRT ,does your perception of that relationship differ. Or say your MTF and attracted to females does the onslaught of estrogen have you perceive a difference in the way you understand and relate to that person. as an example, You have a girl friend before and after HRT is there a difference in understanding of the wants and needs of that person. I was just wondering because honestly I've been celibate for a long time I quite lost on relationships. My attraction to both men and women sexually and personally wise has remained the same , other then a little more uninhibited in thinking towards the male. I know growing up male how I perceive the female body is different now that I'm on estrogen. God's creation is manifest in both male and female anatomy ,but my perception of how that beauty is understood and respected has changed quite a lot . Just wondering if anyone else has experienced a change in attitude towards the mental and physical aspect of the other humans they encounter in their daily life.
The biggest thing was just that I became more aware of male privilege and of the constant micro-aggressions and harassments that women have to deal with.
Pre-transition, I made a mistake and thought that my girlfriend had a ride home with friends after a roller derby bout, when really she was counting on me to take her home. I didn't know this, which led to her walking around the outside of the arena in the middle of the city at night looking for me. She had a drunk creepy guy hitting on her, and she was FREAKING out, crying over the phone as she asked me in a panicked voice where I was. When I finally picked her up, I was an unsympathetic jerk. I didn't understand it, I was all "oh come on, it couldn't have been that bad." And, well, karma bit me in the a**. Now I have guys stalking me every time I walk through a seedy neighborhood, and it freaks me out too. I actually called her and apologized a few months ago, because I just didn't realize how it felt to actually go through it.
Aside from that, not much different. I was never able to understand guys pre-transition, and I still can't. I am indeed more aware of when guys are talking about their stupid drunken escapades and stealing stuff and other bulls*** "look at how dangerous and tough and manly I am" nonsense, but it bothered me back then too, so now it's just a decreased tolerance for it where it just really makes me roll my eyes and mentally think "okay, yeah, you're an insecure guy trying to prove to everyone that you have a big penis, yada yada yada."
Women, I'm much more empathetic toward their feminist causes now, but that's about it. I wanted to be included with them pre-transiton, and now I actually can be included with them. But honestly I still really don't feel initiated into the club yet. Maybe that will change once I start my new job, but not yet. I still don't really feel any more of a connection to my female friends from before transition.
I had an encounter with a group of girls back in my college years that opened my eyes a bit. I felt real being accepted as one of them. I haven't been able to replicate that experience , but it was good.
As i progressed in my transition my emotions and thoughts of what gender i felt attracted to has changed.
I went from hetro. to hetro. Just playing for a different team.
Might be my imagination, but hormones seem to have me "noticing" classically good looking male faces more than I used to. My sexual desire or interest hasn't changed, just my notice of faces.
And now that I have a pair of breasts of my own, breasts on other people no longer seem terribly interesting.
Quote from: mrs izzy on August 04, 2014, 09:47:44 PM
I went from hetro. to hetro. Just playing for a different team.
Very well put, I remember when my transition was complete by brother couldn't understand why I was attracted to men, well I was hetro, I wasn't a lesbian, now playing for a different, my husband is hetro.
For me my perception of the male has just evovled more towards the total person rather then their genitals
I love, respect and adore women a whole lot more. (At least the respectable ones, which tends to be the majority of them.)
I reserve much growing hate, disgust and an affront for 'man'-kind in general.
Oh Wow have things changed!! Not only do I see men in a different light sexually but how they behave and relate is so noticeably different.
Men always seem to be all serious and view women as if they're not as smart or hard working because we don't make everything look as if its rocket science. It could be the most mediocre type task and a man will make it seem like he conquered Mount Everest! but then if a woman does that same task, they view it as something trivial.
The best way I can explain men is that they don't get excited when they should and get excited over things they shouldn't. When I was on T I never even noticed men were like this....or even myself at times!
Relating with women seems so natural but it wasn't something I thought I would or could ever do. I never tried to act any differently it just happened. I catch myself saying things very girly at times, like awww, or that's sooo cute and my favorite "you booger" and I do use dear and hun often but not as much as some women. My eyes view the world in a different light on E but I still notice some of the darkness of T at times. I always considered myself fairly empathetic as a male, I now consider myself less empathetic than many females but still much more than most men.
Even though I can get fairly disgusted with how men act and relate, I still love to be held and kissed by them!!
yes, and that constant spitting thing , god that's really so gross
Sure, for men they are just scarier than before....
For women, my romantic interest increased beyond what it had been before, and what I find attractive in a woman and what I like to wear and look like started to wildly diverge.
I grew a strong distaste for men, hate the way they smell and behave. I even lost some of my previous male friends from pre transition cause I couldnt stand their behavior like I could before. And women, lets just say I like them alot more then before. Tho my patience with how some of them behave has gone out the window also.
I no longer find the thought of being penetrated to be repellent. Does that count for a change of perspective?
Quote from: aaggat on August 05, 2014, 04:08:58 PM
I no longer find the thought of being penetrated to be repellent. Does that count for a change of perspective?
yes
I've definitely changed and I now see the world differently than I did before.
1. I now notice sexist remarks that just did not register before and they have changed how I see some people, but partially that's because they now treat me differently.
2. I've never been excited by gay sex but when thinking of myself as a woman I sometimes thought about sex with guys, now on E and as I've accepted that I'm a trans woman and think of myself as such all the time I find that the prospect of male company is exciting me but I also find that it's a very different attraction. Rather than a possessive carnal desire it's much more an emotional thing but I've always been very girly in this way, it's just become more pronounced.
3. I now like the smell of some men
This is a good question that asks us to scratch the surface of a very complex and hard to measure psychological and physiological change. The brain changes, not just in terms of its chemical makeup, but in size and in shape. I could get into so many examples about how my interactions and experiences have changed, especially because I was not attracted to men before hrt but now am. I'll give one example of something that happened recently that could never have happened pre HRT. Last weekend I attended a wedding with my two children. It was an outdoor wedding, and a steady rain was falling when we arrived 20 minutes before the ceremony. It turns out that the wedding tent was not large enough to cover all the guests, and I was irritated that I was sitting in a damp chair and holding umbrellas over me and my two children. I was so mad that I was considering leaving. In the midst (not the mist, it was raining harder) of my anger, my friend D showed up. Now, I find D a distinguished and attractive man, and we've grown close after my transition. Very close. But we're not going to date, and I don't pine for him. But he saw an empty seat next to me, and asked to sit. I can hardly do justice to the almost instant calm and relief I had when she sat next to me and held my umbrella over my head while I nuzzled close to him. I felt swathed in warmth and protection. Anger gone. I thought the ceremony was way too short.
I get a similar calm feeling when I sniff my 6 year old son's head, as I do every night when he's settling in to sleep. I distinctly remember that pre-hrt I thought his head smell a little foul. I try the same sniff text with my daughter and the experience is entirely neutral. I can smell her shampoo, but I get no emotional feedback (we're close in other ways.)
Those are just a couple of the more pleasant changes that have occurred.
So much sexism it hurts.
Seems E makes a lot of people jump on the "man-hating" bandwagon, wonder if victimizing yourself and degrading men helps some people validate their femininity. I can't explain some of these opinions...
People who don't just look to themselves will notice men have it bad, worse than women. Men can't exactly show emotion, men can't be feminine but women can be masculine, men are expected to be self-sufficient, females rarely end up homeless... And try looking at suicide statistics, men are ahead.
I've had plenty of unpleasant experiences with females before, particularly younger ones. Having them ask my number while their jealous male friends stare and then get spat on because of jealousy? Check. Having a car full of drunk girls stop and start talking while I'm on my on walking home? Check.
Are these supposed to be good experiences? Should I have felt lucky because women are angels and they were giving me attention? I only felt discomfort.
Women are always victims and guys are always villains, this mentality has to disappear. The people who've hurt me the most in life were women, my favourite friends and family happen to be men.
Quote from: antonia on August 05, 2014, 07:14:10 PM
I've definitely changed and I now see the world differently than I did before.
1. I now notice sexist remarks that just did not register before and they have changed how I see some people, but partially that's because they now treat me differently.
2. I've never been excited by gay sex but when thinking of myself as a woman I sometimes thought about sex with guys, now on E and as I've accepted that I'm a trans woman and think of myself as such all the time I find that the prospect of male company is exciting me but I also find that it's a very different attraction. Rather than a possessive carnal desire it's much more an emotional thing but I've always been very girly in this way, it's just become more pronounced.
3. I now like the smell of some men
well, I admit to getting more turned on by men then I did before. My feelings for woman will always be there it just my fantasies are going a little off the deep end for men
Quote from: Mermaid on August 05, 2014, 07:50:20 PM
So much sexism it hurts.
Seems E makes a lot of people jump on the "man-hating" bandwagon, wonder if victimizing yourself and degrading men helps some people validate their femininity. I can't explain some of these opinions...
People who don't just look to themselves will notice men have it bad, worse than women. Men can't exactly show emotion, men can't be feminine but women can be masculine, men are expected to be self-sufficient, cis-females rarely end up homeless... And try looking at suicide statistics, men are ahead.
I've had plenty of unpleasant experiences with females before, particularly younger ones. Having them ask my number while their jealous male friends stare and then get spat on because of jealousy? Check. Having a car full of drunk girls stop and start talking while I'm on my on walking home? Check.
Are these supposed to be good experiences? Should I have felt lucky because women are angels and they were giving me attention? I only felt discomfort.
Women are always victims and guys are always villains, this mentality has to disappear. The people who've hurt me the most in life were women, my favourite friends and family happen to be men.
I fail to see any "hate" in this thread.
Trans people hold a very unique perspective in the world. We know more about gender than any other humans.
All I see are women sharing their experiences, objective yes, but far from hateful.
We can preach equality until we're blue in the face, but the fact of biology is that estrogen and testosterone each promotes a different set of physical, physiological, and psychological traits.
While these sets of traits are not all encompassing, they do influence the vast majority to some extent.
In fact, most of the posts in this thread abandon the homophobia that tends to be prevalent in the forum to relate how our attraction to men and our understanding sexuality has grown.
Perhaps your unpleasant experiences are related to your pessimism.
I don't see any rambling hatred. Some trans are lesbian, bisexual straight, they just have different perspectives on how they view things. so far no ones gone overboard.
Quote from: Mermaid on August 05, 2014, 07:50:20 PM
So much sexism it hurts.
Seems E makes a lot of people jump on the "man-hating" bandwagon, wonder if victimizing yourself and degrading men helps some people validate their femininity. I can't explain some of these opinions...
People who don't just look to themselves will notice men have it bad, worse than women. Men can't exactly show emotion, men can't be feminine but women can be masculine, men are expected to be self-sufficient, females rarely end up homeless... And try looking at suicide statistics, men are ahead.
I've had plenty of unpleasant experiences with females before, particularly younger ones. Having them ask my number while their jealous male friends stare and then get spat on because of jealousy? Check. Having a car full of drunk girls stop and start talking while I'm on my on walking home? Check.
Are these supposed to be good experiences? Should I have felt lucky because women are angels and they were giving me attention? I only felt discomfort.
Women are always victims and guys are always villains, this mentality has to disappear. The people who've hurt me the most in life were women, my favourite friends and family happen to be men.
No man hating going on here! I think your reading into things more than what is said.
There are many decent men out there just as there are some real beee-atches of women. Often men will get a bad rap for being dead beat fathers....but I have seen many mothers who have full custody and are dead beat mothers. Too often though men don't want much to do with the children after a divorce, it just is.
Where I work I get along more with men more than I do the women. But some of their habits and attitudes still disgust me. And as far as them not being able to show emotion....that's a crock!! If a man is afraid to show his emotions, who's stopping him....society!! No, it himself.
As far as women being the victim...statistics don't lie.
As for trans women and maybe men, being treated with respect and accepted, women have a big heads up on that. If a man accepts and respects someone that is trans, he does it by not saying anything. Women will embrace a trans with open arms most times. When I finally came out to some distant relatives at a funeral, all the women hugged me and told me how good I looked. The men avoided me like the plague! I talked with my one nephew that seen me a couple of times prior but even he had a hard time sitting there next to me. Its almost like they're afraid they may catch the "chop your penis off disease" :):)
Quote from: Mermaid on August 05, 2014, 07:50:20 PM
So much sexism it hurts.
Seems E makes a lot of people jump on the "man-hating" bandwagon, wonder if victimizing yourself and degrading men helps some people validate their femininity. I can't explain some of these opinions...
People who don't just look to themselves will notice men have it bad, worse than women. Men can't exactly show emotion, men can't be feminine but women can be masculine, men are expected to be self-sufficient, females rarely end up homeless... And try looking at suicide statistics, men are ahead.
I've had plenty of unpleasant experiences with females before, particularly younger ones. Having them ask my number while their jealous male friends stare and then get spat on because of jealousy? Check. Having a car full of drunk girls stop and start talking while I'm on my on walking home? Check.
Are these supposed to be good experiences? Should I have felt lucky because women are angels and they were giving me attention? I only felt discomfort.
Women are always victims and guys are always villains, this mentality has to disappear. The people who've hurt me the most in life were women, my favourite friends and family happen to be men.
I don't know. Statistics point overwhelmingly to males causing virtually all the mayhem and crime going on in this world.
Testosterone is such a shi**y hormone. I should know, I was male.
Don't want anything to do with them.
I notice men a lot more, I don't have the feelings for women I had before. It's more of being on the same team. When I chat with women about men we always agree. Lol.
There are men in my opinion that are gorgeous, but I still don't trust them due to experiences in early transition. So I'm very selective. Eventually I'll find a man (I think). I can't say I'll never be with a woman again, but if I am, it will be due to extreme emotional understanding and respect.
In fact, I get hit on nowadays by women that I would've NEVER had a chance with when I was a male. Go figure.
I did say I find men alot more scarier but, I wouldn't call that hate or sexism by any stretch of the imagination more like a rational response to what I seen, felt and noticed. Women don't usually harass me on the street and I have already had several men do this already, and I know it is only going to get worse.
Quote from: Evelyn K on August 05, 2014, 11:05:30 PM
I don't know. Statistics point overwhelmingly to males causing virtually all the mayhem and crime going on in this world.
Testosterone is such a shi**y hormone. I should know, I was male.
Don't want anything to do with them.
Wow, Ev. There's implied misandry, and then there's just blatantly stating it outright. I know a certain group, about half of the website in fact, who would probably disagree with you, they'd think that estrogen is the s***y hormone.
I admittedly don't have much positive to say about male socialization myself, (the culture, and what it does to guys, and the resulting behavior at least,) but for God's sake...
Let me challenge you here...
Watch the following video:
http://tinyurl.com/njoaxka (http://tinyurl.com/njoaxka)
Now, tell me, what is the problem here? It's very easy to watch that video and say "testosterone is evil, kill all the alpha males!" But that's not what happened. It's a cultural thing. Once the culture of the troop was changed so that instead of being aggressive and picking on others, they engaged in social activities, that culture stayed, even when new "alpha" males entered the troop, and it's still going on 20+ years later.
So how about hating on our misguided cultural gender norms rather than hating on males? It's not their fault, nor is it testosterone's fault. It's the culture.
^^ I read you ;D and that's cool. I have no impetus to browse that part of our hemisphere to hear or read about it. I'm a male to female and interested only in our own specific agendas and topics.
Quote from: Carrie Liz on August 06, 2014, 06:20:30 PM
Let me challenge you here...
Watch the following video:
http://tinyurl.com/njoaxka (http://tinyurl.com/njoaxka)
Now, tell me, what is the problem here? It's very easy to watch that video and say "testosterone is evil, kill all the alpha males!" But that's not what happened. It's a cultural thing. Once the culture of the troop was changed so that instead of being aggressive and picking on others, they engaged in social activities, that culture stayed, even when new "alpha" males entered the troop, and it's still going on 20+ years later.
So how about hating on our misguided cultural gender norms rather than hating on males? It's not their fault, nor is it testosterone's fault. It's the culture.
Listening to an excerpt from the video, "... world where ambition and drive and type a-ness and all that sort of thing dominates" <-- the reason this dominates in our society is exactly due to high levels of male testosterone. That same level of ambition and drive doesn't exist for women. High levels of testosterone drives male ambition in our society because a males worth and status is what attracts women.
High testosterone males who are attractive, driven and successful = alpha males
High testosterone males who don't cut it = beta males, or have napoleon complexes, or start wars over stupid sh*t.
Beta-males who have no validation and end up being average frustrated chumps = robberies, rapes, murder, etc. etc.
Elliot Rodgers much?
;D
The fact is evolution is still playing catch up and eventually humans will have less testosterone overall. We're not running circles around dinosaurs anymore.
BTW, our society is much more highly evolved than baboon society.
Not much has changed in how I view people. I see people much the same way. The only thing is I do tend to get stared at (in a bad way) by men much more than women and it makes me uncomfortable at times. And because I'm constantly afraid that people will know I'm trans and hate me for it, I'm a bit more uncomfortable and insecure around men. Hell, this is true with both genders as I'm just uncomfortable with myself and afraid of people, but I'm scared of some guys deciding it's time to "beat the queer" or something. Women may verbally insult a transwoman or gives us bad looks, but I don't feel as afraid of them as I do men in terms of feeling physically threatened. While I Don't know if that is a more emotional and irrational response, I do feel a bit more on my guard and cautious around them which is a contributing factor as to why I'm not actively trying to date at the moment. However,other than fear for my safety, I really don't see people all that differently. Maybe all this will change once I get further in my transition. And I should note that I don't agree with ideas that men are brutes or anything like that as I think there are many great guys in this world, just realize that there are bad people out there and the world isn't always safe.
There is some truth to what Evelyn is stating about guys though. Men are often the primary culprit when it comes to violence and murders against trans women of color.
With that being said the only thing that changed for me was how I socialize. I flirt with just about everyone, unintentionally most of the time. I just have a very social personality now, which is the way I used to be when I was a kid. I loved talking to people but after puberty started I became very withdrawn. Now that I'm finally breaking out of my shell, I have no problem having small talk with strangers.
Ditto, all of a sudden I've become very social and not only am I much more outgoing but I think people sense that I'm happy and smiling and feel much more comfortable approaching me :)
Quote from: Lady_Oracle on August 06, 2014, 10:58:48 PM
There is some truth to what Evelyn is stating about guys though. Men are often the primary culprit when it comes to violence and murders against trans women of color.
With that being said the only thing that changed for me was how I socialize. I flirt with just about everyone, unintentionally most of the time. I just have a very social personality now, which is the way I used to be when I was a kid. I loved talking to people but after puberty started I became very withdrawn. Now that I'm finally breaking out of my shell, I have no problem having small talk with strangers.
mmmhmm for sure, I'm so much more approachable now too. Now if only I could use these new found social skills to find a romantic interest ;D I'm just focusing on myself these days, not actively looking but I would be lying if I said I wouldn't wanna be with someone.
Hang in there and make yourself available and approachable.
So far I've gotten more than I bargained for, I tend to go out every other weekend with my friends and on average I'd say 1-2 guys start hitting on me, out of which 90% are creepy, significantly older or just not someone I'm attracted to. Every once in a while though you meet someone nice, at which point I have to explain that I have a girlfriend :P
Quote from: Lady_Oracle on August 06, 2014, 11:39:34 PM
mmmhmm for sure, I'm so much more approachable now too. Now if only I could use these new found social skills to find a romantic interest ;D I'm just focusing on myself these days, not actively looking but I would be lying if I said I wouldn't wanna be with someone.
Quote from: Lady_Oracle on August 06, 2014, 11:39:34 PM
mmmhmm for sure, I'm so much more approachable now too. Now if only I could use these new found social skills to find a romantic interest ;D I'm just focusing on myself these days, not actively looking but I would be lying if I said I wouldn't wanna be with someone.
Well. I definitely perceive men differently. I was in my favorite bar yesterday drinking the elixir of life the tequila sunrise. I wear skinny jeans and a low cut blouse with a skin tight light jacket. I had a tinny cleavage showing and saw the bartender looking , so all of a sudden I find myself speaking in a higher voice kind of flirtingly. I definitely wouldn't of done that pre-HRT
Pre accepting myself I found myself attracted to girls, but as I accepted myself I found out I also was quite attracted to boys (in fact I realised I had a huge crush on a good friend of mine and that at that time it was the first time I realised I was a girl, but as it scared me I denied it).
As I went on in my transition I became more and more attracted to boys. I still find girls just as attractive as before, but boys have become much more attractive than girls (little note, I was always attracted to boyish girls).
I used to dislike typical male smells but now after going on hrt those smells attract me. In fact just smelling the smell of my boyfriend (both natural and cologne) turns me on. If somebody else wears my boy's cologne I'm reminded instantly of him (I always look arround for him then xD).
Quote from: meganB on August 07, 2014, 11:10:27 AM
Pre accepting myself I found myself attracted to girls, but as I accepted myself I found out I also was quite attracted to boys (in fact I realised I had a huge crush on a good friend of mine and that at that time it was the first time I realised I was a girl, but as it scared me I denied it).
As I went on in my transition I became more and more attracted to boys. I still find girls just as attractive as before, but boys have become much more attractive than girls (little note, I was always attracted to boyish girls).
I used to dislike typical male smells but now after going on hrt those smells attract me. In fact just smelling the smell of my boyfriend (both natural and cologne) turns me on. If somebody else wears my boy's cologne I'm reminded instantly of him (I always look arround for him then xD).
It is definitely a lot easier for me to accept my attraction to men being on estrogen, even though I always have been just in denial most of the time. I'm seeing women more on terms of being like them, even though I am still strongly attracted sexually, but also as one of them
It's throwing sand in people's eyes to say there's no sexism going on.
Quote from: Evelyn K on August 05, 2014, 01:18:28 PM
I reserve much growing hate, disgust and an affront for 'man'-kind in general.
This is what?
I suppose most posts are acceptable opinions although biased since it seems everything is about gender. I get that this happens because transgender people spend so much time dwelling on the concept of "genders" and tend to view people as their sex and not as... Well, who people are.
It's just I tend to see very hateful posts sometimes, I brought up the sexism thing here but it happens all over the forums. I recall when I first signed up, some transwoman said: "men are dogs and need to be kept on a short leash"... And when I scrolled down, expecting an outcry from someone sensible, I just saw "you go, girl!" comments. I can easily fetch that thread.
I know we have moderators here, but they never seem to crack down on this sort of "ideals", so I don't know. I get shocked sometimes with things I read, incentivating hatred towards men. Weren't most of you men back then? Did you have a ->-bleeped-<-ty opinion of yourselves just because you were "men"?
I wish I could answer the thread aswell but I'm not on E yet.
I myself saw first hand how nasty guys can be but for every bad guy I've met, I've also have met really awesome dudes over the years. However I can understand having a serious issue with men in general, since a lot of us go through male puberty unwillingly and are thrown into a man's world. So we're given this perspective that cis women will never have, which creates a whole new level of sexism that's hard to shake.
And depending on when we transition is also a huge factor here. Young transitioners vs older transitioners, there's a big difference in experiences. One has spent decades in the male role, while those of us that are young and transition, only had a short experience of being in that assigned gender. So it ends up making those that have spent so many years looking from the other side, a bit more jaded possibly.
And it should be noted a lot of the violence and hate we receive are often from straight men usually, especially against trans women of color. So with that its kind of hard not to be cautious about most men, since straight men are the majority in our society.
For me personally I love guys, my best friend is male (childhood friend) and hes extremely important to me. Hes always been super caring and when I came out to him, he was extremely supportive. I couldn't ask for a better friend. At the end of the day though, we still live in a sexist society that I hope changes for the better in due time.
Quote from: Mermaid on August 07, 2014, 02:30:51 PM
It's throwing sand in people's eyes to say there's no sexism going on.
This is what?
I suppose most posts are acceptable opinions although biased since it seems everything is about gender. I get that this happens because transgender people spend so much time dwelling on the concept of "genders" and tend to view people as their sex and not as... Well, who people are.
It's just I tend to see very hateful posts sometimes, I brought up the sexism thing here but it happens all over the forums. I recall when I first signed up, some transwoman said: "men are dogs and need to be kept on a short leash"... And when I scrolled down, expecting an outcry from someone sensible, I just saw "you go, girl!" comments. I can easily fetch that thread.
I know we have moderators here, but they never seem to crack down on this sort of "ideals", so I don't know. I get shocked sometimes with things I read, incentivating hatred towards men. Weren't most of you men back then? Did you have a ->-bleeped-<-ty opinion of yourselves just because you were "men"?
I wish I could answer the thread aswell but I'm not on E yet.
I have legitimate reasons to dislike my gender. One of which is:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi57.tinypic.com%2F11w3f3r.jpg&hash=401ce72f8e29943fd0b655a5f125c868e92b3715)
Just reporting facts. (I also wonder what % of the female inmate population where involved or tied-in due to male influence of some part)
Also the thing about cracking down on "ideals" is a laugh. I do so declare I love fydo, and I hate cats. So time to hit the report button, right? ::)
Most law officials are male, firemen too. If someone saves your life, it's not likely that it'll be a woman. What's your point?
Not sure what you're trying to prove with that graphic, if anything it's a problem with culture/society, not gender...
Anyway, this is pointless. Keep hating men and worshipping women, but if you ever look at yourself and see a lonely person, you won't have to think too hard to figure out why that is.
You outright say you just want distance from "men", nevermind who they are or what they did for others. Any decent person will only want distance from you...
^^ That's fine by me. But I appreciate your concern. Thanks.
Quote from: Mermaid on August 07, 2014, 03:58:39 PM
Most law officials are male, firemen too. If someone saves your life, it's not likely that it'll be a woman. What's your point?
Not sure what you're trying to prove with that graphic, if anything it's a problem with culture/society, not gender...
Anyway, this is pointless. Keep hating men and worshipping women, but if you ever look at yourself and see a lonely person, you won't have to think too hard to figure out why that is.
You outright say you just want distance from "men", nevermind who they are or what they did for others. Any decent person will only want distance from you...
Most nurses, psychologists and social workers are female. Both men and women save many lives, though in different ways. But anyways, I do not agree with hateful comments against men. It's not like being a "man" is a premise to being an aggressive, bad person and just like "woman" is not a premise to an all flowerly, sweet and delicate human being. Women may not be as aggressive as men physically, but both sexes overlap in most other kinds of violence. Even if they didn't, there would still be no plausible reason to hate against men.
If there wasn't so much male inspired mayhem going on in society, then maybe there wouldn't be so much need for law enforcement action in the 1st place. ;D Comparatively it makes sense that a specific gender population is finding itself at a much higher frequency of having to "police" over their sorry aggressive selves. It's the only way to keep chaos from spilling over into the opposite camp, who are all mostly victims of the above.
There's no hate - just a picture of the facts.
You can't disassociate the one common denominator in all of this and the root enabler of aggression - testosterone.
Oh, and one more thingy.
Men are more successful at committing suicide, but for every man attempting suicide there are seven women doing the same. The means women use are just not as effective. A woman is much more likely to try overdose herself with pills and men are more likely to point a gun to their heads.
Quote from: Auroramarianna on August 08, 2014, 11:06:48 AM
Oh, and one more thingy.
Men are more successful at committing suicide, but for every man attempting suicide there are seven women doing the same. The means women use are just not as effective. A woman is much more likely to try overdose herself with pills and men are more likely to point a gun to their heads.
A famous psychologist who teaches at the University of Washington in Seattle wrote her PHD thesis on the fact that men were far more successful at completing suicide attemps then women. Her theories are the basis for DBT ( dialectical behavior therapy ) used for the prevention of suicide. Dr. Marsha Linehan
Being on E has meant I am more aware of my personal safety. I'm more careful walking the streets at night, knowing that I no longer have the strength there to help me get out of trouble.
Evelyn, I'm sorry to see that you have decided that half the worlds population is trash. You'll cut yourself off from a lot of potentially good relationships, but if you feel comfortable with that...
Quote from: luna nyan on August 09, 2014, 01:12:55 AM
Being on E has meant I am more aware of my personal safety. I'm more careful walking the streets at night, knowing that I no longer have the strength there to help me get out of trouble.
Evelyn, I'm sorry to see that you have decided that half the worlds population is trash. You'll cut yourself off from a lot of potentially good relationships, but if you feel comfortable with that...
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi57.tinypic.com%2F2lsfl76.jpg&hash=9f841e0830e1f74dda8c5a1297d64b406e1d0079)
^-^
Hi, I'm not a moderator and this comment is not meant to moderate. But I'm a little sorry to see that Stephanie's really interesting question took a detour into an argument about whether men are bad or not. The question prompts us to talk about perceptions, which by definition are not subject to argument (even though they might, as Evelyn K says about men, have a basis in statistics. But a lot of perceptions do not. They are about our lived realities.). I'm still interested in hearing about how the perceptions of others have changed, and I would really love to hear more.
Love to you all,
Jane
Quote from: Jane's Sweet Refrain on August 09, 2014, 06:07:12 AM
Hi, I'm not a moderator and this comment is not meant to moderate. But I'm a little sorry to see that Stephanie's really interesting question took a detour into an argument about whether men are bad or not. The question prompts us to talk about perceptions, which by definition are not subject to argument (even though they might, as Evelyn K says about men, have a basis in statistics. But a lot of perceptions do not. They are about our lived realities.). I'm still interested in hearing about how the perceptions of others have changed, and I would really love to hear more.
Love to you all,
Jane
Me too , I'd like to understand the depth of the effects of estrogen
Hazards of online discussion I suppose!
Back on topic. I'm hormonally female (as of my last blood test), presenting and living male.
My perception of women hasn't changed. I still can't relate in the way I want to, but that can't be helped given my circumstances.
Males, I can understand, but no longer relate to some of their attitudes. There is that reservation inherently present due to the stoic attitude that society imposes on males, and I can't be like that anymore personally.
Funnily enough, I seem to be able to connect with children better - I don't seem as threatening or something.
I'm the same way with the male attitudes, It's very difficult for me to deal with. The job I had for a long time was with overnight laborers who's Idea of an interesting conversation was talking about female breasts and whether they looked old and saggy or young and perky .
Quote from: luna nyan on August 09, 2014, 09:26:59 PM
Hazards of online discussion I suppose!
Back on topic. I'm hormonally female (as of my last blood test), presenting and living male.
My perception of women hasn't changed. I still can't relate in the way I want to, but that can't be helped given my circumstances.
Males, I can understand, but no longer relate to some of their attitudes. There is that reservation inherently present due to the stoic attitude that society imposes on males, and I can't be like that anymore personally.
Funnily enough, I seem to be able to connect with children better - I don't seem as threatening or something.
Actually, by comparing posts in the FtM forum with the MtF, you can easily see that society only accounts for 30-40% of it. The rest is wired by hormones. The majority of males are stoic and have difficulty expressing emotion because that is what testosterone does. The majority of females are more empathetic and feel emotions harder because that is what estrogen does. It is biology.
IMO the changes have a lot to do with socialization.
I was on hormones for like a year and a half before going full-time, and frankly didn't feel much different in terms of how I related to women versus men from when I was pre-hormones. Women were still these shining pillars of femininity that I couldn't get closed to, and they were still treating me as an "other" so I had a hard time feeling like I actually was one of them even though I talked with them so easliy. And men were the same guys as always, the group that I was reluctantly stuck with even though I didn't completely relate with them because of their occasional "need to prove my maleness" behavior.
Going full-time is what changed this.
Now that I've actually had a chance to do some "girl bonding," (particularly thinking of last night's escapade where a bunch of the girls I was with got drunk, and the entire conversation devolved into sex talk where the lesbians were ripping on the straight girls and everyone was revealing secrets and then suddenly everyone started touching everyone else's boobs,) I definitely feel included with the women. It's those emotionally-intimate moments that set male socialization and female socialization apart. And after a lot of that touchy-feely socialization (which I love,) the male standoffish "bro" socialization just seems a lot more alien because I'm not included with it anymore. Now it's more "just guys off over there doing guy things. Whatever."
So again, I'd say the real difference isn't hormones, it's more how we view ourselves. Hormones made a little difference to how I respond to things, and definitely made me more prone to hugging and crying and having a greater reaction to cute things, but it didn't really affect my socialization or how I viewed and related to men and women until the female hormones were combined with being perceived as female by others.