do you think in the short term as far as intimate relationships we as trans have too high of expectations of being excepted as potential partners. we have a legal and moral right to be seen as equal human beings and citizens , but is it really realistic to expect the general population to not have some questions about an intimate short or long term involvement. love is blind, but has society changed enough to where this is totally a non issue
I'd say that we should be realistic and understand that we don't fit into most people's expectations. But then we can be pleasantly surprised when we find someone who accepts us as we are.
I'm walking through the initial process with my wife, hoping to God that she'll stick with me through transition and go along with the changes. But I do realize that I am asking a lot. I'm essentially asking her to become -- and be perceived publicly as -- a lesbian.
I think I'm being fairly realistic... that I'm unlikely to end up in any relationship. Kind of defeatist I know and maybe I'll change my tune in a year or so but I haven't been in a relationship for over eleven years and I can't see it soon about to change, trans or not.
As for what other people expect... it would be nice to think that being trans doesn't make a difference, but a lot of the time it does.
Quote from: stephaniec on August 17, 2014, 09:23:37 PM
do you think in the short term as far as intimate relationships we as trans have too high of expectations of being excepted as potential partners. we have a legal and moral right to be seen as equal human beings and citizens , but is it really realistic to expect the general population to not have some questions about an intimate short or long term involvement. love is blind, but has society changed enough to where this is totally a non issue
I have no expecations and wouldn't begrudge anyone for not wanting to date someone for being trans. However, it sucks. Everywhere I go on the internet, guys make a bunch of jokes and show hatred towards us. It hurts to read that and feel like no one can or will ever love you. Still, no one is obligated to date transgender people if that isn't there preference and it doesn't make them a bad person; although, I wish the jokes and constant violent imagery some people use when hypothetically talking about dating one of us would cease. There is a difference between saying "I wouldn't date a transwoman" and "kill it with fire". In any case, people are free to date or not date who they want, but I also reserve the right to be upset about it knowing that my love life will probably be as non-existent in the future as it's been in the past. Guess I'm ultra sensitive to the jokes and mockery guys post about us around the internet as I'm very lonely and want a boyfriend- seeing that stuff makes me feel like a hopeless monster.
I would really love to say no. Would love to. But reality can be very cruel. Truth is we represent less than 0.001% of world population maybe, if even that much?? So it's only natural that people are uninformed about the condition and have their own misconceptions and prejudices about us. A lot of the trouble comes from the fact that people are socialized to believe they can always know for sure when someone is transsexual (or rather, cross-dresser), because you can just "tell". People mix up transsexual people and cross-dressers in the same bag. And people genereally think cross-dressers are gross, despicable fetishists. Men are especially socialized to be manly and strong and whatevs just pure nonsense. They have to get all the girls and be super macho, and say goodbye to male real intimate friendships cuz otherwise you're gonna look gay. I don't think it's much of a problem with cis-women, but it can happen as well. Men are made to believe that to be with a man is emasculating and so on blablabla. So when they realize a girl they're dating is trans, two things come in to their mind 1) so she is really a man and I was tricked? and 2) is this a gay relationship, and then they run like chickens. Or they turn violent. Or they just come around. But this is not very common, unfortunately. There is one false premisse that leads to their irrational fear, and worries: A trans woman is really a man. Because people think chromossomes = gender = sex, when it's not. I think even intersex people who transition must deal with lots of trouble even if they are anatomically or chromossomically correct. Again depends, dunno.
Cis heteronormative guys think their self-worth is determined by either the number of chicks they go to bed with, or by their girlfriend's hotness or prettiness, where she hits the beauty scale. A "man" doesn't take into their statistics. Actually the more men they sleep with, the less they are recognized as real men by society. Again a transwoman isn't a man, but uh yeah. Society needs to evolve so bad.
well, I've just begun my transition so I haven't a clue if anyone will want to tag along, but I've also been alone in the relationship desert for a long time, but I'm an eternal optimist and have eternal hope.
Quote from: learningtolive on August 18, 2014, 05:55:35 AM
"I wouldn't date a transwoman" and "kill it with fire". In any case, people are free to date or not date who they want, but I also reserve the right to be upset about it knowing that my love life will probably be as non-existent in the future as it's been in the past. Guess I'm ultra sensitive to the jokes and mockery guys post about us around the internet as I'm very lonely and want a boyfriend- seeing that stuff makes me feel like a hopeless monster.
Well, you have to be able to sense when someone's just a harmless internet troll. Someone who says 'kill it with fire' is most likely a beta virgin, so I wouldn't worry about it if I were you.
I have the option to date someone and I dont know if I should... Im just not attracted to him, or really anyone in a sexual way... Its hard because I crave the intimacy of being held, and I miss kissing a little bit. My ex says (and I think rightly) that dating a sexual person Id end up just hurting them even if I act sexual to try and meet that expectation, it kinda shows. Anything sexual is a complete and utter struggle for me and I dont see the point in it besides MAYBE getting some of the intimacy I need, at the cost of denying someone the intimacy that they need. I just dont know If I can do that again, I really hurt her and now that ive seen the pain it can cause, I cant imagine inflicting that on someone else.
Quote from: stephaniec on August 18, 2014, 09:39:14 AM
well, I've just begun my transition so I haven't a clue if anyone will want to tag along, but I've also been alone in the relationship desert for a long time, but I'm an eternal optimist and have eternal hope.
Un regards to your original question, I just really don't expect too much from people in general.
OK now to tackle this part. You can be married and made vows to someone and still be in a relationship desert. People change and can easily grow apart when two people take two different vies of life. Yep, I know for a fact until I changed it. Never give up the hope Stephanie. I am a hopeless and helpless romantic now and in my younger days ran when things got too close. " I love you" was a NONO for me to hear and would scare the crap out of me and I would run every time. And I probably messed myself out of more truly loving relationships, one of which I truly regret than anything else. Now I really long to go back in time and go for it. But I keep looking and keep hoping and eventually it will happen.
Quote from: Jess42 on August 18, 2014, 03:03:21 PM
Un regards to your original question, I just really don't expect too much from people in general.
OK now to tackle this part. You can be married and made vows to someone and still be in a relationship desert. People change and can easily grow apart when two people take two different vies of life. Yep, I know for a fact until I changed it. Never give up the hope Stephanie. I am a hopeless and helpless romantic now and in my younger days ran when things got too close. " I love you" was a NONO for me to hear and would scare the crap out of me and I would run every time. And I probably messed myself out of more truly loving relationships, one of which I truly regret than anything else. Now I really long to go back in time and go for it. But I keep looking and keep hoping and eventually it will happen.
yea, that's been a big part of my problem, was wounded severely a long time ago and hid in the desert
Quote from: ashrock on August 18, 2014, 01:31:09 PM
I have the option to date someone and I dont know if I should... Im just not attracted to him, or really anyone in a sexual way... Its hard because I crave the intimacy of being held, and I miss kissing a little bit. My ex says (and I think rightly) that dating a sexual person Id end up just hurting them even if I act sexual to try and meet that expectation, it kinda shows. Anything sexual is a complete and utter struggle for me and I dont see the point in it besides MAYBE getting some of the intimacy I need, at the cost of denying someone the intimacy that they need. I just dont know If I can do that again, I really hurt her and now that ive seen the pain it can cause, I cant imagine inflicting that on someone else.
I use to be a very cold person for which I have suffered
I don't think asking for basic human rights is expecting too much of anyone, cis or trans. :)
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on August 18, 2014, 06:10:23 PM
I don't think asking for basic human rights is expecting too much of anyone, cis or trans. :)
hopefully we'll all get there soon, very soon.
Quote from: stephaniec on August 18, 2014, 06:04:08 PM
yea, that's been a big part of my problem, was wounded severely a long time ago and hid in the desert
Oh god I love the desert. That is where my curly mess looks the best and not fizzy. ;) We've all been hurt. You just gotta get back on that horse and ride. Believe me, I have been hurt by both. But I never really gave up, just lowered my expectations. I really don't know if that is a good thing or bad thing though. I just don't expect too much from people and when they are more than what I expect then it is good.
Quote from: Hideyoshi on August 18, 2014, 09:50:50 AM
Well, you have to be able to sense when someone's just a harmless internet troll. Someone who says 'kill it with fire' is most likely a beta virgin, so I wouldn't worry about it if I were you.
Actually, I think most guys are more likely to think negative thoughts than not when it comes to us. MAybe I am too cynical and sensitive at the moment. I'm just sick of being a walking joke or punching bag for other people and that's what I feel like when I read that stuff or get those clocking looks (which have been becoming more frequent as I advance in my transition). It makes you feel like your subhuman. I don't know. Can't force acceptance, but I wish the world was nicer towards us even in their rejection.
'
Quote from: Jess42 on August 18, 2014, 06:20:45 PM
Oh god I love the desert. That is where my curly mess looks the best and not fizzy. ;) We've all been hurt. You just gotta get back on that horse and ride. Believe me, I have been hurt by both. But I never really gave up, just lowered my expectations. I really don't know if that is a good thing or bad thing though. I just don't expect too much from people and when they are more than what I expect then it is good.
well, I am trying more these days, but after so long you tend to atrophy, but my therapist is bringing my warmth back
I think most cis have little interaction with trans and as a result are ignorant of us and resort to heard mentality. If I am thrown out I would look for comfort in the gay community, gender and sex not important. Although, a nice guy, sober, smoke free, drug free and HIV free would be lovely.
I have known loneliness. In my 20's I was extremely lonely. Then I hid and tried my best to conform to the male norms. There are 2 people in my life and if exiled I will be lonely again.
In an ideal world we might all be treated equally and relationships would have more to do with our character than our hot looks. In the current culture I see increasing visibility and awareness of trans people and growing acceptance. Much like where gay people were 40 years ago our increasing visibility and familiarity will likely engender some interest and affection. I think the day is here when we can be seen as someone with a fascinating life story and a unique perspective. That we happen to also be trans does not diminish our capacity to love and be loved. Who our lucky partners are remains to be seen and what dating is made for.
Quote from: stephaniec on August 18, 2014, 06:37:45 PM
well, I am trying more these days, but after so long you tend to atrophy, but my therapist is bringing my warmth back
Good God Stephanie. Don't tell me I am gonna have to bring you out of your shell. You, Jessica and I need to get together for a Girl's night out since we are all abut the same age. Can you say road trip to Vegas or LA? three rich men and we'll all be set for life, unless all three would go for you and Jessica and Id' be up crap creek. Haven't ya'll ever hear that saying about experience and cougars are in big time, trans or straight. ;D Atrophy, smatrophy. That is all I will say, 'cause mine has never worked right either. But guys don't care as much about that as smooth skin, looking good in makeup and two little things on the chest.
Seriously tough. A really wise lady told me over the weekend to stop beating myself up and I am gonna' pass that info to you now. Quit beating yourself up. ;)
Well given that most people don't even date outside of their race I think that they might be a little reluctant to date someone who is openly trans. I don't think anyone should want to be in something that's forced on them. That said, if you can find someone who accepts you for you, go for it. I believe the same way interracial dating is growing, I believe more acceptance of trans people will grow.
Quote from: Jess42 on August 18, 2014, 08:16:22 PM
Good God Stephanie. Don't tell me I am gonna have to bring you out of your shell. You, Jessica and I need to get together for a Girl's night out since we are all abut the same age. Can you say road trip to Vegas or LA? three rich men and we'll all be set for life, unless all three would go for you and Jessica and Id' be up crap creek. Haven't ya'll ever hear that saying about experience and cougars are in big time, trans or straight. ;D Atrophy, smatrophy. That is all I will say, 'cause mine has never worked right either. But guys don't care as much about that as smooth skin, looking good in makeup and two little things on the chest.
Seriously tough. A really wise lady told me over the weekend to stop beating myself up and I am gonna' pass that info to you now. Quit beating yourself up. ;)
I think we can find some rich men in Telluride Colorado with skiing season approaching
Quote from: stephaniec on August 18, 2014, 09:17:25 PM
I think we can find some rich men in Telluride Colorado with skiing season approaching
Yeah but not yet though. I know Vegas and I know parts of LA. Telluride is a big question makrk but Trinidad now. That used to be the place to go. Now I think it may be Denver. I haven't the slightest idea how to ski but I will be the resort bunny though. ;D
Quote from: Jess42 on August 18, 2014, 09:22:25 PM
Yeah but not yet though. I know Vegas and I know parts of LA. Telluride is a big question makrk but Trinidad now. That used to be the place to go. Now I think it may be Denver. I haven't the slightest idea how to ski but I will be the resort bunny though. ;D
who said skiing, mountain top bars and fire places
Quote from: stephaniec on August 18, 2014, 09:43:33 PM
who said skiing, mountain top bars and fire places
I am in.
Quote from: stephaniec on August 18, 2014, 09:43:33 PM
who said skiing, mountain top bars and fire places
Exactly. No broken bones but be my luck I would trip and fall down the stairs and still break a leg. ;)
Quote from: learningtolive on August 18, 2014, 05:55:35 AM...no one is obligated to date transgender people if that isn't there preference and it doesn't make them a bad person;
Right. People have preferences and orientations. If one's particular appearance doesn't fit that for them, then they can't really help that.
Quote from: learningtolive on August 18, 2014, 05:55:35 AM
...although, I wish the jokes and constant violent imagery some people use when hypothetically talking about dating one of us would cease.
This. I don't think this expectation should be lowered. In general, we should have the expectation that people treat others with respect, at least up and until someone proves they don't deserve that respect. You know, like politicians and car salesmen. ;) And this principle applies to anyone. If you're not "into" someone, there are tactful ways of declining that should be used. It's basic human decency.
I think its a good idea NOT to tell your love interest that you are a "transwoman" until after he has fallen in love with you not before. everything up until then is the process of falling in love there is a time and a place to share that and if he is not in love with you then his willingness to be open minded to anything negative about you is greatly reduced . universal truth for all women no matter what gender you were born as ... a man who is completely in love will accept you and any flaws you may have become irrelevant including anything in your past , but he has to get to that point first .
Quote from: jeninindiana on August 19, 2014, 03:20:08 PM
I think its a good idea NOT to tell your love interest that you are a "transwoman" until after he has fallen in love with you . everything up until then is the process of falling in love there is a time and a place to share that and if he is not in love with you then his willingness to be open minded to anything negative about you is greatly reduced . a man who is in love will accept you including anything in your past but he has to get to that point first .
I'd really like to get to that point in transition where one couldn't tell. tough question though on when to tell.
Quote from: jeninindiana on August 19, 2014, 03:20:08 PM
I think its a good idea NOT to tell your love interest that you are a "transwoman" until after he has fallen in love with you not before. everything up until then is the process of falling in love there is a time and a place to share that and if he is not in love with you then his willingness to be open minded to anything negative about you is greatly reduced . universal truth for all women no matter what gender you were born as ... a man who is completely in love will accept you and any flaws you may have become irrelevant including anything in your past , but he has to get to that point first .
But how does true love (not puppy love, infatuation, or lust) grow without trust? And how can a truly trusting relationship happen when I'm withholding a huge part of my past and shutting my partner off from experiences that had a big part in shaping my life?
I think this is one of those things where you can look at it as a glass half full or half empty. Yes, being trans makes it much more difficult to date and have meaningful relationships. I haven't ever even tried, due to issues with body dysphoria. But if and when I do decide to start dating, at least I will know that if I ever find someone who really cares about me, it will be all the more meaningful, because they decided I was someone worth caring about in spite of being trans. ...Unless that was their fetish, which is something I'd try to avoid like the plague. But if a cisgendered person (of either gender) decided I was worth caring about enough to spend the rest of their life with me, in spite of not normally being interested in transpeople, I would know that we had something real.
but why let being "trans" define you ? if you have had reassignment surgery you are a woman so why not just be "a woman" and let that define you .... and allow love to just happen ? i absolutely do think that people can fall in love without knowing every single last thing about the other person and being in love simply makes a person not care about things you become a perfect woman in the eyes of the one who loves you and nothing will change that and they will overlook many things that they would not have been willing to accept before . you should be honest but not telling every single secret about yourself is not really being dishonest I say wait till after hes head over heels in love rendered helpless to your charms and then tell him then he wont care it doesn't hurt a girl to be strategic ;)
Quote from: jeninindiana on August 19, 2014, 03:20:08 PM
I think its a good idea NOT to tell your love interest that you are a "transwoman" until after he has fallen in love with you not before. everything up until then is the process of falling in love there is a time and a place to share that and if he is not in love with you then his willingness to be open minded to anything negative about you is greatly reduced . universal truth for all women no matter what gender you were born as ... a man who is completely in love will accept you and any flaws you may have become irrelevant including anything in your past , but he has to get to that point first .
Yeah, but what about small things like kissing and stuff like that? I mean love is a serious step that requires really getting to know someone. I would imagine a lot of men would feel betrayed to discover their partner is trans after they had fallen for them. Not all guys are like that, nor is it really a betryal/deception in my eyes, but this seems like the most likely response. That being said, I do think a few dates or maybe a harmless kiss before may be okay. I don't know. So many things to think about when it comes to safety.
Quote from: stephaniec on August 19, 2014, 03:55:47 PM
I'd really like to get to that point in transition where one couldn't tell. tough question though on when to tell.
That's what I am hoping for and waiting on. I really hope that one day happens as it's frustrating to put my who life on hold while my image catches up.
Quote from: jeninindiana on August 19, 2014, 05:45:53 PM
you should be honest but not telling every single secret about yourself is not really being dishonest
I agree.
Mentioning that in 50 years of my history, the things I'm doing are being done by a mail, is not "telling every single secret". It's giving an accurate description of pretty much my entire life.
My college years: Do I hide the gender of my roommate when telling college stories? My marriage: Do I not disclose that my marriage was a heterosexual marriage (in 1992 when gay marriage was illegal everywhere) or somehow hide the gender of my spouse? My childhood: Do I hide the fact that my toys were boy's toys, that my friends were boys doing boy things, and that I was socialized as a boy?
How do I talk honestly and openly about my past while hiding these details?
"But guys don't care as much about that as smooth skin, looking good in makeup and two little things on the chest.
If by "that" you mean sex. I think you are seriously fooling yourself or are from some other planet, "far away and long" ;) ::)
My experience would cause me to agree with Jeninindiana that waiting, until there is some level of affection and potential for commitment, is the best course of action.
On the other hand, the prospect of a less than positive reaction might depend of one's definition of "transwoman". If you are speaking about someone who has a transsexual history, (IE: Fully transitioned and post SRS), the reaction could be different if the individual is still something "other than"...."cis"(?)
Just my own personal observation, given my own personal experience. YMMV
Quote from: jeninindiana on August 19, 2014, 05:45:53 PM
but why let being "trans" define you ? if you have had reassignment surgery you are a woman so why not just be "a woman" and let that define you .... and allow love to just happen ? i absolutely do think that people can fall in love without knowing every single last thing about the other person and being in love simply makes a person not care about things you become a perfect woman in the eyes of the one who loves you and nothing will change that and they will overlook many things that they would not have been willing to accept before . you should be honest but not telling every single secret about yourself is not really being dishonest I say wait till after hes head over heels in love rendered helpless to your charms and then tell him then he wont care it doesn't hurt a girl to be strategic ;)
Well in my case at least, I'm not exactly unclockable. If I were going to start dating, it would be extremely naive to assume people would not know I was trans. But even if that weren't the case, this isn't exactly a small detail that I would be comfortable omitting. Doing so would just feel like a huge act of deception, which is not a good way to start any relationship. Even if I was on a date with someone who didn't know I was trans, I would feel obligated to tell them before anything happened. And if they are the kind of person who would refuse to see me again because I was trans, then that would be for the best wouldn't it? Why would I even want to date someone that was transphobic in the first place?
it's definitely a conundrum , if I was invisible I would definitely have a blast with it. the thing is for me personally , lf I was post op and wanted a deep intimate relationship and having been male at one time I would know how this is perceived and would disclose for the selfish reason of my own sanity.
I just think it would be a wiser course of action to let love bloom first and to just be a woman and let it happen and not be so focused on the "trans" I think the big dark secret will be a lot less relevant (or most likely completely irrelevant) if strong emotions are involved but lacking those strong emotions I think many men would hesitate to become involved further or give it a chance . don't make things more complicated than they need to be but if telling men right away that you are trans is working out for you then stick with it and be happy if not then you might want to do things differently . im sure everyone can agree that love and personal happiness is the goal whatever works to make that happen is all good ~ all is fair in love and war
Quote from: jeninindiana on August 19, 2014, 07:53:43 PM
I just think it would be a wiser course of action to let love bloom first and to just be a woman and let it happen and not be so focused on the "trans" I think the big dark secret will be a lot less relevant (or most likely completely irrelevant) if strong emotions are involved but lacking those strong emotions I think many men would hesitate to become involved further or give it a chance . don't make things more complicated than they need to be but if telling men right away that you are trans is working out for you then stick with it and be happy if not then you might want to do things differently . im sure everyone can agree that love and personal happiness is the goal whatever works to make that happen is all good ~ all is fair in love and war
there is also the possibility that if that attraction that causes them interest stays there if your upfront and show them your honesty along with your physical attractiveness
I think a lot of transsexual women do. Sex reassignment surgery leaves one "depth restricted" if one is dating a man so quite literally the size of his man parts matters. If one's vagina only has a 5 inch depth the furthest that thing is going to go is 5 inches, not 5.25 or 5.5; FIVE. So what about then your new partner has a 7 or 8 inch man part? What then? Butthole sex is not the new vagina and I am not a huge fan of anal sex personally so it's a big deal. It's just the reality of the cards primates like us are dealt in life.
Quote from: jeninindiana on August 19, 2014, 03:20:08 PM
I think its a good idea NOT to tell your love interest that you are a "transwoman" until after he has fallen in love with you not before. everything up until then is the process of falling in love there is a time and a place to share that and if he is not in love with you then his willingness to be open minded to anything negative about you is greatly reduced . universal truth for all women no matter what gender you were born as ... a man who is completely in love will accept you and any flaws you may have become irrelevant including anything in your past , but he has to get to that point first .
Because that could be an extremely dangerous situation. If they fall for you and believe you to be a ciswoman they fell in love with and then one day up and so, "Oh BTW sweetheart, I am a transwoman."
A really honest relationship with someone special has to be built on trust. No, they don't have to know every little thing about your past but that isn't really a little thing though. What if he flips out or ends up being transphobic and says, "Wait a minute and let me bash your head in."
Not to mention if you fall for someone and they fall for you, it is really extremely hard to hide the past and the past will bite you in the butt every time. Families, your history and so on will have to eventually be in the mix. Remember this person may fall for you no matter what and if it is a long term relationship it is always better to be up front. Or would you rather fall hard for someone and really care for them and find our later, hopefully without any violence, that you totally disgust and they actually hate you because of their views and phobias? Me personally I would feel like I would be betraying them which not only may hurt them but break my own heart if I fell in love with them.
This is must my opinion though and how I do things. Yeah some lose interest and some keep interest and some it actually peaks their interest.
I can relate to this.. As someone married interracially, and also I'm CIS..
I think more people than you think are willing to date/love across gender lines.. Personally, I think trans women are exceptionally beautiful and would have no problem dating if I was single..
:)
I think it's realy important also for us as trans woman to branch out and widen our horizons. I've found that local sex positive groups, including kink communities, can be very welcoming as many of them are already dating or experimenting accross gender lines and even if they aren't they're still part of the same tribe as those that do and are very accepting and supportive.
Don't worry, you don't have to be involved anymore than you want to but you may find much more love and acceptance within these groups than in general society. I see it all the time.
Another important reason to do this is because when you feel loved and accepted it boosts your self esteem and confidence and people notice that which can improve chances for love over all regaredless of where you are in society.
Quote from: Mark3 on August 20, 2014, 09:03:29 AM
I can relate to this.. As someone married interracially, and also I'm CIS..
I think more people than you think are willing to date/love across gender lines.. Personally, I think trans women are exceptionally beautiful and would have no problem dating if I was single..
:)
Yeah, I really think you are onto something there Mark. There are a lot of cis guys out there that would love to date a transwoman and have a relationship and fall in love. Sometimes we may call them a name which to them is just as insulting as the names some cis people call us and maybe about 10 percent may be
dawgs, hit it and gone. But there are some truly caring guys out there that would rather transwomen because of the femininity. How many cisfriends I have that it is a struggle between the two of them for whatever reason but usually the feeling of control and who is more "man" and the better provider. ??? I won't go into it. Believe me there are a lot of sweet, truly caring guys that just want to love a feminine, really feminine woman in a way that goes far beyond genitalia. Me being scared of the "L" word in my younger days have actually hurt a few of them. Really feel bad about it now but thinking back, I was way more than just a fetish or sex object or so on. They treated me way more like a woman and I turned out to be the "B" word because I was scared of real love. Now I would love to have a true love and a lot of regrets from my younger days.
Quote from: Jess42 on August 21, 2014, 03:04:08 PM
Yeah, I really think you are onto something there Mark. There are a lot of cis guys out there that would love to date a transwoman and have a relationship and fall in love. Sometimes we may call them a name which to them is just as insulting as the names some cis people call us and maybe about 10 percent may be dawgs, hit it and gone. But there are some truly caring guys out there that would rather transwomen because of the femininity. How many cisfriends I have that it is a struggle between the two of them for whatever reason but usually the feeling of control and who is more "man" and the better provider. ??? I won't go into it. Believe me there are a lot of sweet, truly caring guys that just want to love a feminine, really feminine woman in a way that goes far beyond genitalia. Me being scared of the "L" word in my younger days have actually hurt a few of them. Really feel bad about it now but thinking back, I was way more than just a fetish or sex object or so on. They treated me way more like a woman and I turned out to be the "B" word because I was scared of real love. Now I would love to have a true love and a lot of regrets from my younger days.
the regrets of younger days , sounds familiar
When I think about things like this I try to compare it scenarios which are somewhat comparable but where I have more of a perspective, some of the questions I would ask myself:
1. If I met a guy that had erectile dysfunction would I expect him to tell me upfront?
2. If I met a guy that was challenged it the size department when would I expect him to tell me?
3. In a gay relationship 30 years ago would you have expected to meet your partners parents and them to accept you?
4. If I had met a girl before coming out and she would have started to transition FTM would I have felt comfortable staying with her?
5. If I had met a girl before coming out and she was trans how would I have felt if she had told me at various stages in our relationship, would I have gone out with her if she told me upfront?
6. Would I have introduced an openly trans girl to my parents, would I have introduced her if she was stealth towards the world but I knew?
7. Would I have taken a guy to meet my parents?
8. Would I date a guy that would stop being interested in me if I do SRS?
9. If I had met a girl that had lubrication issues or other complications taking sex off the table would I have stayed, how about a guy with complications?
It's not easy answering all of these questions honestly but I find challenging myself with these questions makes me better understand the CIS perspective.
Not to crush anyone's hopes but it's also my understanding that most guys that are into trans girls are actually bottoms.
But there are still nice guys and girls out there that are true to themselves and do accept us fully, it does happen but perhaps not as often as we would like.
I guess I'm kind of confused by my own question. I haven't tried dating since starting transition, so I'm kind of in uncharted waters about what to expect the further things evolve. I know some one that knows I'm trans so it's a non issue, but , I also know some one that might only have suspicions, but couldn't guess as to how they would react because we just met and I'm androgynous, but she hasn't seen me in a dress I'm quite confused at the moment.
Personally I would just level with her and see what the reaction is, life is too short and by asking someone up front I feel like I can get a feel for what people really think rather than them sparing my feelings.
But in the end I think everyone needs to find their own path.
Quote from: stephaniec on August 21, 2014, 07:12:00 PM
I guess I'm kind of confused by my own question. I haven't tried dating since starting transition, so I'm kind of in uncharted waters about what to expect the further things evolve. I know some one that knows I'm trans so it's a non issue, but , I also know some one that might only have suspicions, but couldn't guess as to how they would react because we just met and I'm androgynous, but she hasn't seen me in a dress I'm quite confused at the moment.
Quote from: antonia on August 21, 2014, 07:24:15 PM
Personally I would just level with her and see what the reaction is, life is too short and by asking someone up front I feel like I can get a feel for what people really think rather than them sparing my feelings.
But in the end I think everyone needs to find their own path.
well, that would be the best approach
there are places online that are specifically for trans people and those who are specifically looking for a transwoman if you are pre op/non op , and I think that's a great way to meet people is online . I think you most definately must be honest if you still have a penis you DO need to let the other person know that right away and upfront right at the flirting stage really (and flirting IS intimacy) really if you are pre op or never intend to have SRS you have no business ever flirting with any heterosexual men so basically yes you do have to be honest with what sex organ you have down there right from the very very beginning you don't want to surprise anyone I think that goes without saying! if you haven't had surgery you will just attract gay men or those interested in transwomen specifically and they are easy enough to find online actually finding love online is becoming more common for everyone .
but for those who HAVE had surgery and are now a woman completely that's a different situation (or should be) if he cannot tell and would never otherwise know and society accepts you as a woman why you would bring that up? if your completely a woman identify as a woman , assimilate into womanhood , and just be happy at being a woman now including falling in love ... like the above poster said right up front you do not share every intimate or potentially embarrassing secret from your past which is just what it is . its unnecessary to not allow things to just evolve naturally and eventually will tell him but if you are post op I don't see the rush he is not going to tell you every bad thing that happened to him in his past it takes time to open up to people and trust them and then when you feel secure you reveal more about yourself that's what everyone does in all relationships so I guess it just really depends on how passable you are entirely if being trans is what you identify as then its a good idea to seek out men who are into that and are specifically seeking a transwoman. if you identify as a woman then just relax and be a woman that is the reason you had the surgery if you have had it is to live life as a woman so just be what you've worked so hard to become and now are don't be so focused on your past and mentally it is keeping you down and keeping you from just living life let yourself be happy if everyone sees you as a woman and you have become a woman then proceed as a woman does proceed in courtship . sometimes how we see ourselves is different from how the rest of the world sees us maybe the rest of the world sees you as woman but you yourself do not? :eusa_eh:
your mental self perception could be an issue and might not be aligned with what has become reality which is that you are now a woman but some might have self perception issues which is a whole different topic . this society recognizes 2 genders male or female (some societies recognize 3 or more genders) but if you are trying to be a 3rd gender in a 2 gender society just be aware that it is very antisocial and also counterculture at a very deep level , to identify as any kind of 3rd gender . of course you can always find like minded people online who are open to that so if you do insist on living as a 3rd gender in some form which you are doing by identifying not as a woman but as a trans the average person in any 2 gender society even people who are very open minded will have a difficult time accepting socially a 3rd gender because that is just something so fundamental in society you have become a person separate from society and a social outcast , if anyone want to do that they need to seek out those specifically attracted to your new and unique gender . if that's what you want to do and it makes you happy then sure do it but you cant expect the citizens in any 2 gender society to accept a strange new gender I think its very unlikely that any such society will become accepting of that even within cultures that are very tolerant so assume and expect to become somewhat of a social outcast if you choose to identify as separate from both genders but if you choose to live as a 3rd gender which you can if you want but it will be hard to find others who are within such a separate alternative counter culture . I think for the most part people want to be accepted by society as one of the two genders. if you set yourself up as being dramatically different than everyone else , despite the fact that other people see you as just a woman , then in time you will be seen as neither man or woman but as something completely different and if you do succeed at becoming separate from everyone you will likely find yourself in a very lonely place .
My advise would be this
dont expect from a random cis straight person to want to have a relationship with a trans person
truth is there are many queer people out there, just search for them