I'm 29 and have been married to my wife for 4 years. Like you all, I have been living a lie so well that many would not know.. sure my wife has made comments about how more of the house wife I am as opposed to her but that was only said jokingly. In all seriousness I try to mimic my role as house wife-like as possible. I cook, I clean and I fuss over the small things.. I have reached the point to where I feel I'm ready to tell her but... I guess a benefit would be is that she is a LCSW therapist and may be understanding.. I can't really take time and see a therapist because I work in the same treatment agency as she.. I just feel unsure and lost.
The best thing to do is to be honest about your feelings. Sit her down and explain to her the way that you feel and the directions that you would like to go. Let her ask questions if she is willing to talk about it at the time and if not be ready to give her a little time to process the information.
Just gather your courage and let her know you need to talk. It isn't easy facing it. But when you realize the truth it's just something you gotta do. I wouldn't bother preparing too much, most of that gets thrown out the window anyway because it's not a speech you can just give to her. This is a heart to heart conversation and it'll just flow naturally once you open the way for it.
If you are at a loss for words then try and speak to her about how you feel. If you are afraid then tell her. That will help you segue into telling her why. Keep in mind the reasons you must tell her, that should give your courage the fire it needs to push through the moments when fear would tie your tongue.
It is fortunate that she is a LCSW. She should have covered this in her education which will give her a huge head start in coming to a point of understanding. I really wish you both the best. Good luck!
I came out to my wife as I came out to myself. I had been stuffing those feelings down hard for years and remained in a state of denial until I could no longer do so. One day, after we had a few drinks, I admitted to her what had been bothering me lately. (And she knew something was up- hey, at least I wasn't cheating on her or contemplating leaving her, which she was truly afraid of.) I told her that I needed to try presenting myself as a woman. And believe me, I NEEDED to. I had never once gone there (didn't ever want to open that can of worms), but it had finally become absolutely necessary. I told her that I had always felt like my gender identity was questionable and that it was finally time to sort it out because the alcohol abuse was getting out of control. I said that it was possible that I'd try it and just end up feeling ridiculous, and that would be that, and that I wasn't ready to go so far as transition. I also said that I probably needed some professional guidance to see what my options were.
I found a well-respected gender therapist who told me exactly what I didn't want to hear- that I am transgender and that I needed at a minimum a therapeutic dose of estrogen to feed my brain's starving estrogen receptors, whether I ended up transitioning socially or not. She also told me that I needed to bring my wife along to the next session so my wife could hear it from someone other than me.
BTW- my wife LOVES the "new me". I'm no longer angry, frustrated, depressed, suicidal nor anxious, and I found true happiness that I can share every day with the woman that I have always loved. It's also nice that we wear the same size bra and shoes...
That is a difficult talk,, hugs.
Have water and tissues ready.
Remain calm and hold your ground as to who you are. Your gender isn't something to compromise.
My wife is a Social Worker. There are trans* where she works in step down but she works with early intervention. We were married 20 years when I told her. I have received compassion from my two therapists and 2 in HR. I will never look for compassion on being trans* but when it was received it felt wonderful.
My wife assumed I was leaving her, so reinforce your love for her.
Coming out to my wife followed by telling her I started HRT was very difficult. I wish I followed through telling her when I was dating. She stopped me at telling her I wanted to cross dress. She stopped that then or I hid and did not stand up and reinforce who I am.
Practice many times then inform.
It is not easy, in my case it was the most difficult thing I have ever done (other than living in the wrong body for 35 years).
It was a difficult talk for both of us, we cried a lot but at the end we hugged.
It is not an easy felling to know that you will hurt the person you love the most, you have to be ready for the worst (that she may leave).
When I told her I asked her to go to a restaurant and I started telling her the story of my live, I started telling her when I first felt like this then what happened thereafter, I just told her everything without hiding any details.
Good luck, just make sure you say everything from the bottom of your heart and making sure you always look at her eyes.
Good luck!!!
I doubt that my wife would be accepting.
Poor you, for me that was 20 years ago. It will not be easy, good luck.
Quote from: mac1 on September 03, 2014, 08:14:30 PM
I doubt yhat my wife would be accepting.
I had that doubt as well. It helped keep me closeted for many years until it almost literally killed me. My wife wasn't crazy about it at first, and there were many tears shed, but she actually warmed up to it pretty fast. I expected to lose her, as 89-95% of married MTFs do, but I found the end of my rope. If you're as good as dead like I was, losing a marriage over it just didn't seem like the worst thing that could happen to me anymore.
I just came out to my wife a couple months ago, so I know exactly where you're at. My dysphoria was bad, but keeping it from her was making it much, much worse.
I did quite a lot of reading on the subject and tried really hard to prep for it, because as difficult as dysphoria is, I wasn't willing to lose my family over it. I even started this thread here on Susans (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,167461.0.html) and got a lot of very good advice (you may want to read through it).
Ultimately I have three bits of advice to pass along to you.
You've had years to come to terms with who you are. And it probably took a long time for you to accept yourself. But this will all be brand new to your wife. And regardless of her experience in social work, it has never happened to her. So give her time to come to terms with her own feelings about it. As Jill said, she won't like it at first. There will be tears, anger, and likely feelings of betrayal. Those are normal. But if you're willing to work it out together, you stand a much better chance of her coming to acceptance.
I also learned that in the initial coming out, there is a fine line between full disclosure and TMI. Get the ball rolling, and then answer questions. But save the intimate details for later...when she's ready for them.
And perhaps the biggest piece of advice I can give is that, if you plan to keep the marriage intact, you can't throw down ultimatums and inform her of your decisions. This is a something I've identified as one of the key differences between those who saved the marriage and those who lost theirs. If you want a partner in transition, you'll need to treat her as such. Ultimately you're the one making decisions for you, but she'll be be more likely to go with you on it if she feels like she has a part in the decision-making process.
I wish you the best! And definitely let us know how it goes.
Quote from: katiej on September 03, 2014, 08:49:34 PM
I just came out to my wife a couple months ago, so I know exactly where you're at. My dysphoria was bad, but keeping it from her was making it much, much worse.
I did quite a lot of reading on the subject and tried really hard to prep for it, because as difficult as dysphoria is, I wasn't willing to lose my family over it. I even started this thread here on Susans (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,167461.0.html) and got a lot of very good advice (you may want to read through it).
Ultimately I have three bits of advice to pass along to you.
You've had years to come to terms with who you are. And it probably took a long time for you to accept yourself. But this will all be brand new to your wife. And regardless of her experience in social work, it has never happened to her. So give her time to come to terms with her own feelings about it. As Jill said, she won't like it at first. There will be tears, anger, and likely feelings of betrayal. Those are normal. But if you're willing to work it out together, you stand a much better chance of her coming to acceptance.
I also learned that in the initial coming out, there is a fine line between full disclosure and TMI. Get the ball rolling, and then answer questions. But save the intimate details for later...when she's ready for them.
And perhaps the biggest piece of advice I can give is that, if you plan to keep the marriage intact, you can't throw down ultimatums and inform her of your decisions. This is a something I've identified as one of the key differences between those who saved the marriage and those who lost theirs. If you want a partner in transition, you'll need to treat her as such. Ultimately you're the one making decisions for you, but she'll be be more likely to go with you on it if she feels like she has a part in the decision-making process.
I wish you the best! And definitely let us know how it goes.
What she said :-)
I'd throw in that if you make the transition slow that you give her time to adjust rather than a sudden shock to the system. That seems to be working for me.
I lived with my dysphoria since I was a little kid and am now much older and have been married 22 years. I told my wife a year ago but have made small changes since before we were married a little at a time. You might not want to go quite that slow....
Hi
When I told my wife I expected it to be alot worse then it was. I was terrified that I would lose her and the kids, it took a long time and a very rocky road to get to the point where I could share this part of my life, in the end it was totally worth it.
Me and my wife have been married for 8 years and together for 10, so she never dreamed of having that conversation with her husband, who at every step of his life exaggerated his masculinity to remain hidden to the world.
I basically spent the afternoon explaining my battle with dysphoria for the last 20 years, how when I cheated on her it was a desperate attempt to push her away at my lowest point when I was contemplating ending it all, why I have always been distant, why at times I'm very socially awkward and why I go through bouts of depression.
I then presented her with a package of research that I had previously done on dysphoria.
From there I laid out my general plan for the future making sure the she understood that she was every bit apart of it. Making sure she realised this is the road that will finally make me truly happy but at the same time will be a long winding one. And it was my hope that she will be there with me at the end of it.
She took a few days to consider it all, and her answer was simply
"I'm not going anywhere, when I said I love you in our vows that meant forever"
I am blessed to have married such a wonderful person. I told her two months ago and if anything it has brought us closer then ever.
Kaylee
I come from the ftm side, but maybe this is helpful regardless.
Coming out to my husband was a bit unplanned, I simply couldn't explain away my tears and sadness anymore without lying - and I didn't want to lie.
The one thing I resolved to do was talk about the now and how I feel at the moment. I did not want to confront him with something along the lines of "how would you like living with a guy". So I talked about my dysphoria and how I had finally understood what the root cause of all my mysterious health issues I've had appears to be.
He was shocked, sad, confused - but he did ask what it would take to make me feel better. I told him honestly that if I were living on my own, I'd start transitioning asap. The situation being what it is, we need to sort this out step by step. I was open about the fact that it still could mean a name change and hrt for me.
It was tough. I felt horrible afterwards, but I know I had to tell him. Time will tell how we will navigate this.
I hope it goes well for you!
I came out to my wife in March this year. I wanted to be sure that I will not loose her, I was willing to stop my transition if she would not agree. It was a slow process. I told her about crosdressing, and she was okay with this and even told to me that she likes that. Than a few days later I couldn't resist and told her about my need to become physically opposite gender. And that I feel like that for a long time. I was amazed by her reaction. There were no tears and she received it very calmly. She turned out to be very accepting and supportive. She assured me that she will never leave me and want to stay.
I am really happy that I have such wonderfull wife. In fact she is the person who helps me with transitioning and the only person who knows that I am transgender. I think that we have now closer relationship than before.
I'll just second everything katiej said. :) Give her time, communicate, and keep her a partner in the journey.
I mostly wanted to say that *my* wife found that the biggest study of late on trans people found that in actual fact, about 55% of relationships survive transition intact... http://www.thetaskforce.org/downloads/reports/reports/ntds_full.pdf
Quote from: Jenna Marie on September 04, 2014, 07:18:53 PM
I mostly wanted to say that *my* wife found that the biggest study of late on trans people found that in actual fact, about 55% of relationships survive transition intact... http://www.thetaskforce.org/downloads/reports/reports/ntds_full.pdf
Wow! I didn't realize this. It's really encouraging that so many relationships survive transition. Although in my age group it's only about 40%...but that's better than I would have thought it to be. It's also interesting that FTM's are actually more likely to keep their relationship than MTF's.
I almost transitioned in my early 20's, but the fear of losing my wife (among other things like lack of information) convinced me that transition just wasn't possible for me. So I spent a solid 15 years with it at the back of my mind, and I was able to mostly push the dysphoria away.
Then in the course of a week I discovered a few people online who had stayed with their spouse through transition. And I learned that an old friend had transitioned FTM and his wife stayed with him. Suddenly my excuse evaporated, and the dysphoria hit me hard. And I haven't been able to shake it for a year now. So learning that relationships do survive transition is what ultimately pushed me to transition.
Wow... I had no choice idea that there was so many married transgender people. I had this (now I see wrong) idea that there were few of us married. This topic sure are gonna help me when the time of opening to my girl comes. Since I started in this forum, I made my mind about telling her, I just need to talk to a professional first, and that's almost arranged.
You are all great! I'm really glad I found this place.
Married here, in transition, partner and kids have me in tow thru this process! It can work, most if it relates to her person not yours. She will be her as she reacts, you can positively help her and make it easier but largely her decision to stay will be because of who she is, no judgment intended, just a fact that people are true to who they are in times of crisis.
My partner is open minded, empathetic, loyal, fluid in her sexuality, open for adventure and we really like each other. From there I've made it easier by treating her as a partner in transition and going slow. It's working.
I don't think the first convo needs to lay it all out when you are asking for a partner in transition. I'm transgender, this is how I feel may be enough of a definitive statement. The rest of the details could be less firm "maybes" or "likely" as in "yeah , I think I need hormones, etc. I never asked permission but I also didn't start E and AA until she was also ready so in your disclosure dance, you may want to take this into consideration.
I think communicating the pain, and the therapeutic nature of tailored treatment and your love for her is what matters.
If she's not supportive you can always put your foot down later and say I'm doing it no matter what.
Katie : Amazing, isn't it? She's also posted that to several partners' groups she's in, and heard lots of other happy ending stories. (She'd been saying all along "Why do I know so many successful couples if it 'almost never' happens?")
So the hope of keeping your wife allowed you to transition? That's actually pretty cool, and argues for disseminating this study far and wide. :) I know I was terrified I'd lose my wife as well, and very grateful that didn't happen.
Yep it was a rough few days when I told my spouse almost three years ago, thankfully she is very understanding and what we have together is much stronger than what damage this had the potential to cause.
She soon shared some her things that didn't fit her anymore and we have had many mall shopping trips to have fun picking out cute things side by side. The other day she commented that she has noticed what my "fashion style" is and that she is envious that I can wear smaller sizes and cuter things than her...quite a compliment since I've always admired her fashion sense.
My partner knew about me all along because we shared as much about our feelings and intimate life as possible as we grew old together. It was never a surprise for her. My spouse knew about my growing anguish, shame and pain and when it became a crying misery she said she was going for help (a gender therapist) and asked me to come with. Your wife may already have a pretty good idea of where or who you are.
Quote from: wanessa.delisola on September 05, 2014, 07:00:51 AM
Wow... I had no choice idea that there was so many married transgender people. I had this (now I see wrong) idea that there were few of us married. This topic sure are gonna help me when the time of opening to my girl comes. Since I started in this forum, I made my mind about telling her, I just need to talk to a professional first, and that's almost arranged.
You are all great! I'm really glad I found this place.
No, no. I'm telling you right now, you're much better off telling her
before seeing a therapist. If you already have an official diagnosis when you come out to her, it's like you're throwing down an ultimatum. She's no longer a part of the decision-making process. She has no say in the process at all.
It hurt my wife that I had never told her about it, but she understood why I had kept it a secret. But if you're out to other people...EVEN A PROFESSIONAL...it takes that away from her.
I've noticed that for most of those who kept their marriages intact, it was precisely because their partner remained a
partner through transition. It's something to work through together.
Please don't inform her of your decision. That's a recipe for failure.
Katie : I agree with you 100% about this as well. My wife has said that if I'd presented her with the fact of transition without giving her any input, she would have been a lot more tempted to leave (and we're one of the most committed couples out there). She always stresses that partnership angle - making sure your SO is genuinely still your partner in the journey. I think she'd like you. ;)
It's not even especially controversial advice outside of the realm of trans stuff; people who keep major secrets from their partners or make unilateral life decisions without consulting them are putting a huge strain on the relationship.
One thing my lovely spouse was adamant about was working on us "together"
It can be a roller coaster, but at least we are on the same ride together, sometimes screaming sometimes laughing, but always holding hands! :)
This partnership deal can't be stressed enough.
I recently saw a short video about a transwoman who had lost her wife and kids in the process, but she was pushing on because she had to be
true to herself. The video presented her as courageous in spite of adversity. But I picked up on some little details that made it very clear to me that she had forced the issue in a very one-sided way, then she picked up and moved from England to the US. And now she's saddened that she doesn't have contact with her children? Really, honey? How about
not running off to be who you are 3,000 miles away from them!
Quote from: Jenna Marie on September 06, 2014, 09:43:55 AM
Katie : I agree with you 100% about this as well. My wife has said that if I'd presented her with the fact of transition without giving her any input, she would have been a lot more tempted to leave (and we're one of the most committed couples out there). She always stresses that partnership angle - making sure your SO is genuinely still your partner in the journey. I think she'd like you. ;)
Jenna, your advice was particularly helpful when I was going through this. So, much of what I'm saying here is really parroting what you said to me. :)
I realized something through all of this. If I had come out as gay, that would have meant that I was rejecting my wife. But coming out as trans, I'm giving
her the option to reject
me. If she decides to stay with me, then she's accepting a lot of changes. And those changes need to be taken on willingly, which is why SO's are more likely to leave when they're not part of the decision-making process from the beginning.
Katie : Awww, I had no idea it was that helpful, but I'm delighted to hear it. :) That's also an interesting way of looking at it, and one I honestly hadn't considered; you've put the ball in her court in a fundamental way, and framed like that she is at least an equal partner in the choice.
For that matter, I know one cis couple where the husband came home one day and offhandedly said he'd taken a job 1,000 miles away - he's now wondering why his wife isn't his wife anymore! That kind of behavior is just so profoundly disrespectful, regardless of the unilateral choice being made.
(And yeah, yikes about that video. It does sound like perhaps she was not an innocent bystander in the way her life fell apart...)
Oh, Jenna, Katie, you are so right... i know that, but...
But I'd never seen a gender specialist before, arent there any chances that i'm not trans? I mean, sure, I'd think about it all the time since I was a kid, and it only grew stronger... I'm not trying to fool myself, chances are I am really trans... but I'm still very confused. Over the years I "accept" this as a fact, but I never got an official diagnosis from a therapist... some years ago I looked for one, but he did not know much about gender identity, so, that didnt really helped...
So, I was sure I should find a gender specialist before telling her...
Sorry for all the confusion, I'm not even sure of what i'm saying...
My wife was/is a frog in a pot. I just keep changing..i knew we crosses some bridge when we washes my bras. I told here when i was diagnosed as having gender dysphoria and told her how i felt i needed to be..she'd rather have me be who i was before but realizes i dont have a choice.
Wanessa, there's a very big difference between
informing your wife of your status and the changes to come, and
asking your wife to help you get yourself sorted out.
And seeing a therapist first will likely feel to her like you're saying "I'm trans, and you better get on board, honey." It doesn't let her get on board voluntarily.
There's another thread (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,172842.0.html) asking the "am I trans" question right now. I recommend reading it. It comes down to this...cis people don't spend time wishing they were the other gender. They may be curious about what it's like, but they don't typically question their own gender. And they certainly don't question it to the point of depression or self destructive behavior.
So yeah...you're probably transgender. You don't need a formal diagnosis to tell you that.
Some around here have said that their wife didn't accept the first diagnosis anyway, and they had to go to another therapist before the wife finally accepted it. So, having a diagnosis in hand doesn't give you a better shot of gaining her acceptance. In fact, it's more likely to be seen as a betrayal of trust.
Quote from: Jenna Marie on September 06, 2014, 10:44:39 PM
For that matter, I know one cis couple where the husband came home one day and offhandedly said he'd taken a job 1,000 miles away - he's now wondering why his wife isn't his wife anymore! That kind of behavior is just so profoundly disrespectful, regardless of the unilateral choice being made.
It's disrespectful...that's the perfect way to say it. It's selfish and demonstrates that he doesn't see his marriage as a team. It's him doing stuff...and her following him around.
My wife always knew I was TG. I did a good job of convincing her I was "Just a CD", far better then I did on myself :(
Dropping the T-Bomb is never easy. My first wife, a social worker, totally freaked. We were divorced within a year. It has been a good 6 years now since I dropped the bomb on my current wife, which at that time consisted of me attending a TG support group. (I was working several states away at the time) By the time I left the third meeting I knew for certain I needed to be there. Her first concern was my safety. This was followed be her future. She knew of my past history of dating TS's, she learned that the group was mostly post transition or working on it women, and that that the prettiest post-op member was an engineer, just as I am.
Wives see their world view totally turned on its head. They are human, with all it's frailties, just as we are. Unlike us, who spent upwards of a lifetime trying to come to some level of understanding what "being trans" is FOR US, they have essentially zero time. First reactions tend towards feeling betrayed, lied to, over this. The reasons as to why do not matter at the time. You are dealing with raw crocodilian emotions when the bomb explodes.
The really hard work follows, assuming you survive that phase, with the open honest discussions made all the more difficult learning where the TMI line is currently sitting. Just to make things even more exciting you yourself likely cannot honestly state with certainty, exactly what you see happening going forward. As in long term transitioning to full time, surgeries, etc..
Plenty of UnKnowns = Plenty of Fear = Plenty more Talks
Wanessa : I'm just going to second Katie again. If you tell your wife basically what you just said - "I'm pretty sure I'm trans, but I'd like to go to a therapist to figure it out for certain/get a diagnosis," then you're including her in the process from the start. There is a chance that in the short term this will backfire as she goes into denial and hopes the therapist will say you're not trans, but in the long run you will have tackled the issue as a partnership from before you took the first step, which will likely count for a lot.
I'll also second the idea that at first her reaction will from "crocodilian emotions" (good phrase, Joanne!), and one of the most common responses when an SO finds out that their partner has been doing things like going to a therapist behind their back is to have the irrational, unreasonable, *emotional* feelings that are most often triggered by cheating with someone else. "You've betrayed me!!" Then it gets much uglier than it needs to be.
My wife says that she felt like me going to a therapist was the "official first step of your transition." She was hysterically upset for days about it, because of that. And she knew for months beforehand that this was the plan. Your wife may feel the same way - and then feel illogically as if you've TAKEN that first step without her, and trust me, one of the biggest mistakes you could make on this journey [if you want to stay together] is to leave her behind.
For an example of what Jenna and Joanne are talking about, see this thread. (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,172976.0.html)
Your wife will be hurt no matter when you come out. But starting transition before coming out virtually guarantees she won't stick around.
Quote from: katiej on September 07, 2014, 06:39:50 PM
Your wife will be hurt no matter when you come out. But starting transition before coming out virtually guarantees she won't stick around.
I never did ANYTHING behind my wife's back, nor did I keep it a secret. As soon as I came out to myself, I came out to her that night.
I figured that doing things behind her back would have violated her trust and guaranteed us having problems. Otherwise it was only going to be us
maybe having problems. Turned out that there were no problems at all and everything in her side of the closet was no longer off limits to me.
Yeah, I should tell her asap! You are right again, Jenna and Katie! I just have to find the courage to do so!
If I try to run away form this, in the end, i would be worst. She probably would find anyway and the whole thing would blow in my face.
Last night i couldn't even sleep after our talk. Like I said, i'm very afraid (nothing all of you already dont know how it is), but after reading what all you said, I felt a weird kind of peace.
Thanks for all the advice and the gentle words, girls.
Wanessa, I wish you the best. It's going to be tough, but a giant weight will lift off your shoulders afterward. For me, the inner turmoil of hiding such a huge secret from my wife was much worse than the dysphoria.
Jill, you were a lot of help to me as well when I was wrestling with this issue. I really value your input. And btw your new avatar is seriously cool! How many teles/strats does one girl need?
I agree it is a very hard thing to do. My wife figured it out mostly just by my mannerisms and asked me one day. Do you want to be a woman? That's when I told her and its been very rocky for me so center then. I'm working together with her to see if a mutual solution can be reached since she has already told me her stance on it leaving me with the ultimatum. So you don't think it will always come from you your partner can be the one to drop the bomb shell so just be prepaired for whatever comes your way.
This blindsided me at first but she is willing to try to compromise. I've since had one therapist tell me yes its trans confirming what I already thought. She knew of it but we are now looking for someone whom specializes in trans and couple therapy. I can tell you now it will be a very rocky uphill battle if she helps or your on your own but if love is still there she will be in your corner all the way possible.
Quote from: katiej on September 08, 2014, 12:36:08 AM
Jill, you were a lot of help to me as well when I was wrestling with this issue. I really value your input. And btw your new avatar is seriously cool! How many teles/strats does one girl need?
Thanks! And guitars are like shoes. You can never have enough of them. Sometimes I get my nails done to match one of them and coordinate with an outfit. Betcha didn't think of guitars as accessories!
Jill, I was thinking about something today and wanted to ask you about it. I'm mainly a bass player, which is more analytical and less emotional than playing guitar. But I spent a lot of years as a drummer, so I do get how to play with emotion. My question is, how has your playing style changed under the influence of estrogen? Guitar players tend to be spotlight hogs and pretty aggressive. Has that changed for you?
Sorry to hijack this thread...but I think we had pretty much wrapped up anyway.
Wanessa, please do give us an update when you have something.
Quote from: katiej on September 09, 2014, 09:02:37 PM
Jill, I was thinking about something today and wanted to ask you about it. I'm mainly a bass player, which is more analytical and less emotional than playing guitar. But I spent a lot of years as a drummer, so I do get how to play with emotion. My question is, how has your playing style changed under the influence of estrogen? Guitar players tend to be spotlight hogs and pretty aggressive. Has that changed for you?
Hey again!
My playing is still pretty visceral, but I can see a few more moves ahead now. It's really nice for improv, which I was always good at. I was actually never a spotlight hog, in fact quite the opposite. I had less stage presence than John Entwistle. One thing is that I used to play some pretty dark stuff, but now I have a harder time coming up with doomsy riffs. I use a lot more major progressions, 7th chords and creative substiutions now. Crap, I'm turning into *OMG* a JAZZER. I'd like to think it's less like Tony Iommi and more like Jeff Beck now. I guess this is what happens when you're happy most of the time. If I turn into an est-fest folkie, please shoot me. And yes, I really have covered a couple of Joan Baez songs live...
I assume you already have a nice archtop jazz box or three. :)
I have a friend who is a pro player. He manages to turn most any song into a late 80's power ballad. But when you put a jazz box in his hand, he transforms and becomes a legit jazz player. He's not even faking it. The voicings, his touch, the tone...it's all authentically jazz. He's definitely one of the better guitar players I've been around.
In my experience, most serious musicians wind up heading towards jazz and fusion as we get older. I've sat in on a couple fusion gigs recently. It's a lot of fun. I hate to admit it, but I've also been on a big Yellowjackets kick lately.
Quote from: katiej on September 09, 2014, 09:34:19 PM
I assume you already have a nice archtop jazz box or three. :)
Actually I don't! I've really only done rock/classic rock/hard rock/classic hard rock/metal/classic metal and blues.
I did own a 1964 ES-335 for a bit like 16 years ago, but I had to pay rent with it. Too bad. Those are worth stupid money now. I sort of miss it. I have played a real D'Angelico and a real D'Aquisto though. Maybe after my rockabilly kick, I'll give jazz a shot?
The new Tony Levin (and his lesser known brother) CD (signed!) showed up at my house today, and it's supposed to be "cool jazz" instead of his usual prog. He's a really nice guy.
Wow, we probably need to merge this into the guitar thread now.
I'll just PM you.
I have had two ways I am considering, in regards to coming out to my wife.
The first way sees me spend the day with my wife (after she gives birth in January). I do a lot of nice happy things with her. I then sit down in a park with her, start from the very beginning of my feelings as to who I really am, and lead up to the present. I then ask her if she has any questions, anything she wants to say, and then ask if she would like to speak to my psychologist to get an understanding of what is happening, from a professional. I already have the appointment lined up, and we cross the road from the park to where the psychologists office is.
The second way is to do what I have been doing some of lately. Dropping a few hints, talking about things that are clearly not male centric, ask her various hypotheticals etc. Then when I feel the time is right, introduce her to this site. Have a couple of particular messages lined up ready for her to read, including one of my own where I describe my journey so far (of course she would not know it was me). Then after she has read what I have wanted her to read, tell her that what she just read was my life story, and then ask if she has any questions etc...at least the second one is a long slow winding path that I can do before she gives birth, thus not stressing her out while pregnant
I don't know about that...your scenarios feel a bit manipulative. That word is a bit too harsh, but it feels like you're setting the mood just right so that you can control the outcome of the conversation. And IMO that's the exact wrong way to do it. Women are very perceptive about things like this. They know when they're being told how to feel, and they really resent it.
The coming out conversation isn't normally a clean and simple discussion along intellectual lines. It will get emotional, and that's natural. It's going to be a shock...you can't lessen the blow no matter how you butter her up.
Perhaps the biggest piece of advice that I could give is this. I have noticed that relationships have a much better chance of remaining intact when the spouse is treated like a partner in the process, and this includes the beginning decisions about whether to even transition. If it feels like you're throwing down an ultimatum instead of asking for her help, then it will likely feel like you're taking away her ability get on board willingly.
I definitely wouldn't mention the therapist until later. And please for the love of God don't have an appointment ready. Have you already been seeing a therapist?
How about, "Sweetie, I'm starting to think I might be transgender and need to talk to a therapist about it ASAP."
Quote from: Michelle G on September 06, 2014, 01:18:50 AM
Yep it was a rough few days when I told my spouse almost three years ago, thankfully she is very understanding and what we have together is much stronger than what damage this had the potential to cause.
She soon shared some her things that didn't fit her anymore and we have had many mall shopping trips to have fun picking out cute things side by side. The other day she commented that she has noticed what my "fashion style" is and that she is envious that I can wear smaller sizes and cuter things than her...quite a compliment since I've always admired her fashion sense.
I know this was posted a while back but I must say its good to hear you have an understanding wife. Mine is apparently the minority of spouses whom want to just about kick you to the curb for even bringing it up.It's not like I didn't have a femine pose or like her clothes better from the start but its the darker side. Somehow this post did make my day though so I wanted to comment on it.
Quote from: Releca on September 15, 2014, 09:59:15 PM
I know this was posted a while back but I must say its good to hear you have an understanding wife. Mine is apparently the minority of spouses whom want to just about kick you to the curb for even bringing it up.It's not like I didn't have a femine pose or like her clothes better from the start but its the darker side. Somehow this post did make my day though so I wanted to comment on it.
I wish that my wife was open to the idea.
Something just occurred to me, and it's half thought out, but I'll put it out there anyway...
Quick Disclaimer: Not everyone is the same, not every relationship is the same. Society should be a certain way, but usually isn't. Some SO's will never be accepting. I get all that. So please don't nitpick my over-generalizations. :)
Men typically think/act a certain way. Even transwomen, who aren't really men, are still used to male privilege and thinking like men. And roles in a heteronormative marriage still do have an "equal but different" connotation. Men lead in decision-making, women support the decision-making. It's part of the sexism inherent in our culture.
But when we come out to our wives, we can no longer expect to throw down an ultimatum and expect to be able to talk them into it. This is why the concept of partnership is so important, and seems to be a key ingredient in the marriages that survive.
We have to accept that our role changes immediately. It certainly has for me...and it did immediately. Essentially we, as husbands, have to learn quickly to become wives.
For example, my wife and I had lived in a small town for about 13 years, and we spent the last 5 years half-heartedly trying to move. But when I came out to her, one of her initial reactions was "we can't stay here. We have got to move before we can even deal with this." She was exactly right, and six weeks later we moved to Seattle. I had been the one dragging my feet on moving, and at that time felt like I had a right to take lead in that decision. But accepting my new role, I let her take over.
This has actually helped her feel like she has a measure of control, even after I turned things upside down. And I've actually felt more natural in the supporting role. I like being a wife.
Anyway...I'm really just thinking out loud here. What do you all think?
Mac and Releca, can I assume you both are out to your wives?
I just wanna say: Trying to drop subtle hints did not work for my gf. She had to straight up spell it out for me to be like 'OH!'.
Quote from: katiej on September 15, 2014, 09:02:00 PM
I don't know about that...your scenarios feel a bit manipulative. That word is a bit too harsh, but it feels like you're setting the mood just right so that you can control the outcome of the conversation. And IMO that's the exact wrong way to do it. Women are very perceptive about things like this. They know when they're being told how to feel, and they really resent it.
The coming out conversation isn't normally a clean and simple discussion along intellectual lines. It will get emotional, and that's natural. It's going to be a shock...you can't lessen the blow no matter how you butter her up.
Perhaps the biggest piece of advice that I could give is this. I have noticed that relationships have a much better chance of remaining intact when the spouse is treated like a partner in the process, and this includes the beginning decisions about whether to even transition. If it feels like you're throwing down an ultimatum instead of asking for her help, then it will likely feel like you're taking away her ability get on board willingly.
I definitely wouldn't mention the therapist until later. And please for the love of God don't have an appointment ready. Have you already been seeing a therapist?
Well, I have told my wife, and she is supportive. I told her about the therapy, I told her what is to be expected. I gave her a timeline for when things will be happening, and hoped she would be there with me. I asked if she wanted me to make an appointment with the therapist in case there was something she wanted to talk about, but she is fine
Quote from: Asniceasme on September 16, 2014, 03:18:38 AM
I gave her a timeline for when things will be happening, and hoped she would be there with me.
Are you informing her, or are you asking her to be involved in the decision-making process? You're riding a very thin line there.
How did she take it when you came out?
Quote from: katiej on September 16, 2014, 03:45:47 AM
Are you informing her, or are you asking her to be involved in the decision-making process? You're riding a very thin line there.
How did she take it when you came out?
A bit of both. She wants to be involved in the process, but she also wanted to know a rough timeline...I didn't say to her that I am taking this, then in two months I am taking this, then in five months I am going to go fulltime...I said to her a timeline in broad terms, such as someone would first start on this, then if their body reponds ok, the dosage may be increased. After a couple of months, this drug may be added...and so forth.
And she is ok...I think she may have known for a while something was up, but couldn't put a finger on it...and what softened the blow for her was the little hints and questions I had been asking.
Quote from: katiej on September 15, 2014, 10:34:18 PM
Mac and Releca, can I assume you both are out to your wives?
Never
ass u me. It makes an
ass out of
u and
me . No, I am not out to my wife. She is rather straight with regard to the issue and I have not found a way to get her to be more accepting.
Quote from: katiej on September 15, 2014, 10:28:21 PM
Men typically think/act a certain way. Even transwomen, who aren't really men, are still used to male privilege and thinking like men. And roles in a heteronormative marriage still do have an "equal but different" connotation. Men lead in decision-making, women support the decision-making. It's part of the sexism inherent in our culture.
I really hate this. I always am asking her to make a decision and she refuses to. She always wants to defer to me. Some things I definitely have a handle on - technology and transportation. Other stuff? I can't decide to save my life. So usually it goes back and forth until the equivalent of putting all the choices up on a dart board and throwing a random dart and sticking to it happens. For example, we can't even decide what's for dinner. Usually we fight to see who asks the other first because neither of us wants to decide. It's been a running joke for almost 10 years now.
Moving? Sure, I would like to move. I hate the state I live in for a number of reasons. But she loves the house and where we live. So I can't make that decision.
I speak partly from my own experience. How you come out to your wife really depends on how you perceive her reaction based somewhat on her knowledge of ->-bleeped-<-. My wife was and still is quite ignorant on this. She is also very religious, and yes, that can also make a difference. She knew I was seeing a therapist. It was necessary for me to eventually "out" myself to her because in the 90's, my therapist was following the Harry Benjamin Standards of Care. My wife was required to attend the last session, which she did. Afterwards she told me she felt like my therapist and I "ganged up" on her. Anyway, I never proceeded with hrt and rlt which was my next step. After about a month she thought I was "cured". Anyway, I've been on hrt for very nearly seven months. She is unaware, which should give you an idea of our relationship, because I do have some rather obvious growth.
I only knew of one other TS and his wife decided on divorce. Not all wives will be like this. I know there are some out there that are very supportive, or at least become so. However one chooses to come out to their wife, her reaction, I believe, will be pretty much the same whether you spring it on her, let her "find out", or open a discussion that evolves around to the subject. The important thing is in how you make her understand what ->-bleeped-<- is, how it effects you, and how it will effect her. It would also help to involve her in your therapy. Understand, however, that her own perceptions, religious beliefs, etc., will drive her to her response and acceptance or lack thereof. The hard part will be to make her understand and be able to explain to her how this doesn't have to be a negative in your lives. She already has a preconceived idea as to what she expects of you as her husband and a man, and you are about to change all that. Anyone who comes out to their wives/family really needs to be prepared with a little research ahead of time and probably either be in therapy or about to enter into therapy with family support.
My wife knew I was not your factory standard model male going in. In fact, my feminine traits were one of the things she was attracted to. When we got together, I was still lying to myself with the coping mechanism that I could do both. This went on for years, through our dating, our engagement and the first couple years of marriage.
Eventually, one of my closest friends inspired me to finally stop BSing myself and ACT before even more time passed. So, my wife found out almost the same time I accepted it myself.
I told her by mentioning it as she was walking by the door. She said something along the lines of "Yeah, I kind of figured." That was the start of a 6 month period of mourning/coping/acceptance which were painful in many various ways and joyous in others. During which of course, I made the situation even more stressful because I was PANICKED about starting HRT ASAP before I wasted any more time.
It was not the easiest time of our marriage, but we're still together and very happy. She took me out for a surprise pedicure over the weekend. :)
A recent study shows that roughly half of all serious relationships survive transition. We're told the opposite...that total rejection by anyone you've ever known or loved is pretty much inevitable. And it's just not true.
Quote from: mac1 on September 16, 2014, 10:52:43 AM
Never ass u me. It makes an ass out of u and me . No, I am not out to my wife. She is rather straight with regard to the issue and I have not found a way to get her to be more accepting.
I phrased it as a question. I wasn't saying that I assumed anything. You had said that you wished your wife was more accepting, but you haven't even given her a chance. Jill's advice a bit earlier here is really spot on. The best thing is to approach your wife and say that you're having a really hard time and think you might be transgender and should talk to a professional.
If you do it that way, you're asking your wife to help you get through a hard time. And you're also giving her time to come to acceptance. There's no ultimatum, no manipulation, and you're treating her like a partner in your relationship.
There was another thread here recently where a transwoman was so sure that her wife wouldn't be accepting, so she went ahead and started transition. She told the rest of her family and friends, but didn't tell her wife until 6 months after starting HRT. SIX MONTHS!! And then when her wife predictably took it very badly, she felt justified. Seriously?!? It was a self fulfilling prophecy. Of course she took it badly!
When I came out to my wife, she said it hurt that I had hidden this from her for so long, but she understood. And it really did help her to know that I had never told anyone about it. She was the first.
Quote from: katiej on September 16, 2014, 06:03:52 PM
When I came out to my wife, she said it hurt that I had hidden this from her for so long, but she understood. And it really did help her to know that I had never told anyone about it. She was the first.
My wife was the first to know as well. I never told anyone until then because I wasn't even really out to myself. There was always this little thing in the back of my head, but I could bury it pretty deep and I didn't think I'd ever have to actually go there. You don't need to tell anyone about your potentially embarrassing non-issues. The problem is that gender dysphoria is a progressive thing. By the time I had to come out, it had gone from a whisper in the background to screaming bloody murder, and I was about ready to die if I couldn't explore my true gender.
I am lucky to have had experiences with relationships in the past that taught me to be up front when the relationship started. I know that not everybody has had this luxury because they may not have been completely honest with themselves, and it really comes down to timing. When we first met, I was very up front about how I felt about my own gender to her. Now my problem is just how to deal with the rest of the world. For me, it is difficult enough that I often think maybe I shouldn't do it, but I know at the same time that if I don't, I will remain unhappy. In the end it is like you are damned either way! This logic would still seem to apply to coming out to a spouse.
Still trying to figure out how to approach this with my wife or the timing. Beginning to think it'll never be a good time. She's suspected on and off when I've had flare-ups over the years and found my first aborted attempt when I was in my early 20s while I was researching before I ever met her, but I was a fool and kind of made excuses to her mainly because I wasn't sure about myself. Now that I am 15 years later, this is killing me on how to bring it up with her in a way that I wasn't lying before and that I just didn't know where I stood and that this isn't just another flare-up. There's definitely some good advice here. Thank you all for sharing.
Quote from: ashleyfivekay on September 16, 2014, 09:17:23 PM
Beginning to think it'll never be a good time.
It never will. Just get it over with.
Good luck!
Quote from: ashleyfivekay on September 16, 2014, 09:17:23 PM
Still trying to figure out how to approach this with my wife or the timing. Beginning to think it'll never be a good time. She's suspected on and off when I've had flare-ups over the years and found my first aborted attempt when I was in my early 20s while I was researching before I ever met her, but I was a fool and kind of made excuses to her mainly because I wasn't sure about myself. Now that I am 15 years later, this is killing me on how to bring it up with her in a way that I wasn't lying before and that I just didn't know where I stood and that this isn't just another flare-up. There's definitely some good advice here. Thank you all for sharing.
As my former boss once said to me when I complained that going off to World Class Manufacturing class in the middle of a 1 million dollar project, "It is never a good time..."
When the time came that I needed to tell my wife we were having a long distance marriage, She was totally depressed, near suicidal, semi-invalid, and already feeling abandoned and betrayed. Not exactly a good time, but she is my partner, confidant, and reality therapist. By the time I went to my third TG support group meeting it was already a meeting longer then I really wanted to wait.
Thank you everyone for responding and telling me of your positive stories! Reading these have helped me out tremendously! Today is my birthday so the Dysphoria has been really hard so once today is over, I'll talk to her and explain everything!
Thank you again!!
My wife knew when I was younger but thought God cured me.. I tried but it did not work..
A year ago we were having coffee as we always do in the morning... and I just finally said it.
She remembers the date and time.....it was last September 19th. I was at a point of suicide and just tired of living a lie.
I started therapy without her knowing before I told her so I could get a grip on myself.
Sometimes, some will act like no big deal and want to be there for you.... some will then change.. I have been lucky except for my daughter...
Good luck
With love and Caring,
Carrie
99.9% sure my wife will "split", go all-out with verbal rage, then tell everyone on her phone's contact list. I'm not even sure why I should even be open with her. This is gonna really suck :(
I have no idea what my wife will do. I'm just hoping that if she splits that I get enough time with my kids. However I think she may live in denial for a while and then gradually accept it.
I feel she knows something is up already. In fact there's no denying, because now she looks at me a lot and asks, "what's wrong?" She's never done that before. This is in addition to other things she's said like, "you don't look yourself anymore" and also flipping out when I started to adjust my look. I have my first therapy appointment booked so I'm a bit nervous.
Kate, I really recommend talking with your wife before seeing a therapist. Partnership seems to be a common factor in whether a marriage survives transition. So making unilateral decisions like seeing a therapist without at least talking it over with your wife beforehand is exactly not partnership.
Just tell her you're in pretty bad shape mentally and you think you may be transgender and you need to see a therapist. You're not forcing anything on her (yet), you've made no decisions without her, and you're leaving the door open for her to get on board willingly.
Good luck! And let us know how it goes.
I'll have to disagree on that point Katiej (in regards to seeing a therapist). Getting help for yourself should not be contingent upon someone else's approval. Therapy can be a good way of figuring out what you need. It can also help with other issues of depression, anxiety, etc. that may be accompanying factors. A good therapist can also help with coming out to a spouse, and working with a spouse. Depression is a good enough reason to see a therapist (and it can often be covered by insurance)...just make sure they also deal with gender identity as well. I would tell your spouse that you're going for depression, and for internal issues you've been dealing with for most of your life.
.
"Partnership" is two (or more) individuals working together toward a common goal. You can't be an equal partner if you don't know yourself as an individual. That's where therapy can come in...as it can be difficult to know yourself well when this issue has been locked up in your head for years without discussion/expression outside of that head-space.
.
Therapy isn't everything though...you'll need to explore by doing things too. And when you're ready for that point...that's when you need to tell your spouse and bring them into the discussion. As soon as you tell them that you're transgender, there will be questions, and you'll need to be able to have some answers, and a general plan of actions you want to pursue. Those actions and the the how/where/when decisions are things that a couple can talk about and compromise on because they are concrete. Telling a spouse before this point will only make them worry with no end in sight...which isn't very fair to them, and puts a lot of strain on the relationship.
.
= = = =
My own coming out went rather horribly. I didn't do any sort of therapy beforehand, which is why I recommend it. In brief, I thought the worst thing that could happen was that my wife would leave. I was wrong. She got very abusive and manipulative (threatening self-harm/suicide as a means of control), did what she could to isolate me, and frequently tried to excuse her abusive behavior on OCD/Bipolar issues she didn't previously display.
My experience is not a common one. It's far more common for a spouse to simply leave. But I think it's important for someone coming out to be ready to leave if things get bad...and more importantly to have a support structure (whether accepting friends or a therapist) so that they don't get isolated, and have someone to talk with about what is going on.
= = = =
.
Best of luck to you.
I want to see the therapist first because that's one of the first things we agreed to discuss. They did ask if I came out to her already when I was setting it up. I know I have to (and I will) but I want their professional opinion on how best to do it because I don't want to mess it up. Yes, I know there's no right way to do something like this that can potentially (and likely) end our marriage but I really do need help to do this.
Either way it will be earth shattering but I want to be prepared. I still have a couple weeks so I could just come out to her, but I don't want to go up and say, "hey by the way you married a woman, how do you want to proceed?"
Well, FWIW, my wife felt like going into therapy was the first "real" step in transition. It shook her up pretty badly when it happened; I'm certain (and she has said) that had I done it "behind her back," she would have felt betrayed and hurt. Given how hysterical she was when she *was* part of the process... I don't think that would have gone well.
But I can understand wanting to see a therapist to figure out if transition is even on the table - by that point, I knew it was.
My wife had a similar reaction to Jenna's. She was hurt by the fact that I had hidden this from her, but she understood why. And she said it really did help to know that I had never told anyone else. She was the first that I had ever trusted with my biggest secret.
IMO the problem with going to therapy first is that when you already have a diagnosis before coming out, you're basically throwing down an ultimatum at that point. "This is how it is, honey. Get on board." And you've not given her a chance to get on board willingly.
It's an issue of timing. We've taken years to come to terms with who we are, but this is new for them. And the way we first approach the subject makes a real difference. My wife felt like I trusted her fully for perhaps the first time, and she slowly warmed up to the idea. And we're taking each step together. Ultimately, it's my decision, but she's part of it because it's happening to her too.
And do you really need a therapist to tell you that you have gender issues? You've got 300+ posts on Susans. Cis people are't spending that much time here. :)
LOL! 300 posts? Yikes. Maybe I need to dial it back some... :P
I know I'm trans. Pretty sure my wife has a hint too. The changes she's seeing lately are scaring her though, and this was my reason to reach out for help. Scaring her I feel because we have young kids and they need both of us and she's afraid that too much change would jeopardize that. My son is showing some signs too such as secretly dressing in his sisters' boots and asking explicitly to go to the girls' bathroom but it's waaaayyyy too early to tell. But my wife freaks out when he does that and I kind of do too. Yeah, so as they say in the FB relationship status, "it's complicated."
The therapist is more about practical issues and sorting myself out, and most importantly, WTF exactly I want and need to do. I could have done informed consent much cheaper and easier and save time too but I feel that I need to see a therapist because I need not only to sort out my self, but also practical advice. More importantly I am not a psychological/medical professional. I studied a bit of it in college (and was good at it, like all my subjects actually) but I'm by no means an expert.
I don't really want to throw down an ultimatum but either way, do I really have a choice? Do I ask her permission and she says no, I just don't do anything, accept my fate and slowly kill myself inside? Or even worse, just decide one day to end it? Or even worse, procrastinate and have to go through this later on? Or secretly self medicate because I can't live with myself? Or do I come prepared and say something like, "this is what we're dealing with, how should we proceed? I want you on board."
I might have it easier since we really aren't at all intimate anymore, hell we don't even kiss properly, just a quick smack on the lips now. So the stuff that goes on (or rather, doesn't) in the bedroom isn't really going to change. But again, WHO KNOWS.
PS apologies to the OP for this thread jack... I might just start a new one.
Don't worry about the OP. You're about the third or fourth person to tack on their own questions to this thread. :)
I agree with you about the role of the therapist. You need someone who's knowledgeable on the subject to coach you through it. And I'm all for that. I'm going through it myself right now.
There's a happy medium between informing her of your decision and asking for permission. It really is as simple as allowing her to be part of the process from the very beginning. And if you're hoping to have her be a partner through the process, you had better treat her as one from the beginning. Again, it's ultimately your decision. But you have to keep her involved in the decision-making process.
Just keep in mind that the coming out conversation doesn't usually get into detailed planning about transition and the future. Those questions will be asked and answered over the next days/weeks. Again, you've spent a lot of time thinking about it. She hasn't. So the initial coming out is just bringing the issue out into the open and trying your damndest to reassure her that you're not wanting to abandon her or the kids. It's an emotional conversation that's usually centered on her...not on you (if that makes sense).
You say she's probably got a clue about it. Just put it out there and let go of the secret. It's going to be rough, but the weight that will lift off your shoulders will be massive.
Quote from: katiej on September 27, 2014, 11:11:43 PM
My wife had a similar reaction to Jenna's. She was hurt by the fact that I had hidden this from her, but she understood why. And she said it really did help to know that I had never told anyone else. She was the first that I had ever trusted with my biggest secret.
IMO the problem with going to therapy first is that when you already have a diagnosis before coming out, you're basically throwing down an ultimatum at that point. "This is how it is, honey. Get on board." And you've not given her a chance to get on board willingly.
It's an issue of timing. We've taken years to come to terms with who we are, but this is new for them. And the way we first approach the subject makes a real difference. My wife felt like I trusted her fully for perhaps the first time, and she slowly warmed up to the idea. And we're taking each step together. Ultimately, it's my decision, but she's part of it because it's happening to her too.
+1
Likely you've spent nearly a lifetime just trying to sort things out enough just to get to this point. Contrast that to an SO that is has only milliseconds to process the thousands of questions of reptilian visceral emotions that dropping the T-Bomb WILL evoke.
By my third support group meeting there was absolutely no doubt in my mind I needed to be there. The following weekend when I made the trip back home I had absolutely no doubt I needed to tell my wife what was up. There was also no doubt in my mind transitioning was the last thing I wanted from this process.
Six-seven years later I still have absolutely no doubt I need to go to my group meeting no matter how deeply into a "WTF am I doing????" funk I may be. There is also no doubt in my mind that a full-time transition is no longer the last thing I want from this process. My wife is probably a lot more sure of how far up on the list it is then I am.
What a long strange trip it has been
Quote from: ImagineKate on September 27, 2014, 11:37:18 PM
............................
Scaring her I feel because we have young kids and they need both of us and she's afraid that too much change would jeopardize that. My son is showing some signs too such as secretly dressing in his sisters' boots and asking explicitly to go to the girls' bathroom but it's waaaayyyy too early to tell. But my wife freaks out when he does that and I kind of do too. Yeah, so as they say in the FB relationship status, "it's complicated."
...................................
Whatever you do - don't discourage him! You might even try to encourage his exploration. If your wife can accept him doing those things it might be easier for her to accept you doing it.
Quote from: mac1 on September 28, 2014, 02:27:24 PM
Whatever you do - don't discourage him! You might even try to encourage his exploration. If your wife can accept him doing those things it might be easier for her to accept you doing it.
I am trying to remain neutral. He asks to go to the girls bathroom, but I tell him, I can't do that yet honey. Well, not in front of his mom... The girls bathroom thing may not be gender related. He is afraid of urinals and the loud hand dryer. He does a lot of typical boy things too, play with trucks and really plays rough. Yeah but I'm not making the same mistake my parents did with me. He plays with his sisters with their princess castle etc (but with a prince horse). He also plays with his scooter, toy trucks and toy tools. He also seems OK with his male parts and not disgusted by it. Anyway it is too early to tell but I am letting him be himself. All I want is success for him (and his sisters). I am also reading the DES threads because since this was a risky multiple birth she took a lot of various hormones and expensive fertility drugs up to a certain point in the pregnancy because we had multiple miscarriages, including one at 16 weeks. I'm hoping it didn't affect them too much.
Quote from: mac1 on September 28, 2014, 02:27:24 PM
Whatever you do - don't discourage him! You might even try to encourage his exploration. If your wife can accept him doing those things it might be easier for her to accept you doing it.
Quote from: ImagineKate on September 28, 2014, 02:35:06 PM
I am trying to remain neutral. He asks to go to the girls bathroom, but I tell him, I can't do that yet honey. Well, not in front of his mom... The girls bathroom thing may not be gender related. He is afraid of urinals and the loud hand dryer.
............................
If he asks to use the girl's bathroom when your wife is along, say "
Yes, your mother can take you!"
Quote from: mac1 on September 28, 2014, 02:57:50 PM
If he asks to use the girl's bathroom when your wife is along, say "Yes, your mother can take you!"
She does but she's not always around to.
Quote from: Mac1If he asks to use the girl's bathroom when your wife is along, say "Yes, your mother can take you!"
Quote from: ImagineKate on September 28, 2014, 03:02:11 PM
She does but she's not always around to.
Is he old enough to go in there by himself?
Quote from: mac1 on September 28, 2014, 04:50:52 PM
Is he old enough to go in there by himself?
Not really and it's primarily the school bathroom for the after hours program so it presents a problem.
Quote from: ImagineKate on September 28, 2014, 05:15:31 PM
Not really and it's primarily the school bathroom for the after hours program so it presents a problem.
If he is old enough to go to school why isn't he old enough to go to the bathroom by himself?
Quote from: mac1 on September 28, 2014, 05:30:22 PM
If he is old enough to go to school why isn't he old enough to go to the bathroom by himself?
It's pre-k. He can go in the bathroom in class by himself but the main bathrooms are a bit too high.
Anyway we're going off topic.