Being called a ->-bleeped-<- hasn't & I don't feel it ever will bother me. I even call myself it sometimes. I don't view it as offensive & I never really have but I noticed a lot of people on here get offended when someone calls them a ->-bleeped-<- :o Why is that? What's so offensive about it? It's a slur somewhat but I can't see it in a negative context unless someone is like "OH SH**, THAT'S A ->-bleeped-<-!" or something rude like that. So I'm wondering , do you guys find it rude? Or are there a lot more like me who honestly just don't care?
Quote from: TSJasmine on November 13, 2014, 03:04:45 PM
Being called a ->-bleeped-<- hasn't & I don't feel it ever will bother me. I even call myself it sometimes. I don't view it as offensive & I never really have but I noticed a lot of people on here get offended when someone calls them a ->-bleeped-<- :o Why is that? What's so offensive about it? It's a slur somewhat but I can't see it in a negative context unless someone is like "OH SH**, THAT'S A ->-bleeped-<-!" or something rude like that. So I'm wondering , do you guys find it rude? Or are there a lot more like me who honestly just don't care?
I use the word sparingly. If someone says ->-bleeped-<- in passing I understand and do not jump down their throat.
I think some do not like it because of it's origin in the porn world. I myself have never received it, but if I did I would just consider the person using it to be uneducated or just uninformed. Remember, people use it because for most it is all the exposure they have had to our world. :)
Come on Jessica, yeah got to give some of us other girls a chance, once again, I agree with what you're saying. LOL. I have never been called a ->-bleeped-<-. But the way I look at it as I could be called a lot worse and have been called a lot worse. But I no longer care what anybody else says or thinks so. No, it really doesn't bother me.
Hugs,
Melissa Ann
I consider the source and usually dismiss it as trite noise. I was overhearing a conversation at an adjacent table where the guys were talking about ->-bleeped-<-s and felt my back stiffen until i laughed out loud upon realizing they were really talking about the transmission in their hotrod cars. What they say isn't about us sometimes and really how much power do we want to give them?
reclaiming words once meant to hurt us feels empowering and i am happy to be an out, queer transgirl
Quote from: MelissaAnn on November 13, 2014, 03:14:41 PM
Come on Jessica, yeah got to give some of us other girls a chance
Got to get up quick to beat the blonde!!!! ;D
Jets versus Sharks
(A whistle is heard...)
If the worst thing I get called in January when I go full time is ->-bleeped-<- then I will consider it a good year.
Meh ->-bleeped-<- sounds so... as if someone doesn't takes you serious. I don't like it to be called a ->-bleeped-<-. Also because ->-bleeped-<-s are often confused with travestites when with cis people.
My mom is calling me just that to make angry but doesn't work.
I guess it doesn't bother me.
That said, I only dress en femme when I go to therapies and so far nobody insulted me. Just stares...
I really don't care if I'm called a ->-bleeped-<-. I'd rather be called a ->-bleeped-<- than a man, bloke, etc
Under breath I've heard ->-bleeped-<- or ladyboy being uttered Maybe it's my paranoia or my tinnitus. :icon_blah: Compared to when I was growing up where I had racist slurs shouted at me (so if they really said it) then they are more cowardly than those idiots back when I was a child.
Either way I just ignore it. Sticks, stones, words, pain and all that at the end of the day.
It isn't fun, but sometimes it precedes getting suckerpunched (or worse). Thankfully that part hasn't happened to me yet.
Oddly enough, I still use the word all the time when referring to transmissions or transformers. I really hate it when I blow a ->-bleeped-<-. It's usually very expensive.
If they call us ->-bleeped-<-s, can we call them cissies?
The word in itself doesn't really bother me, after all I am trans, but its the fact that it is used in a derogatory way that bothers me.
It hasn't happened to me yet. I would never refer to myself that way. But lazy and small-minded terms of ignorance and abuse exist for any and all socially excluded or otherised groups. They say far more about the person using them than the person receiving them.
If someone whose opinion I actually cared about said it, sure, I'd be upset (because yes, it does carry baggage, it clearly has derogatory connotations). I'd also probably stop caring so much about their opinion. If some random said it... meh, I don't know. My response would depend on where my own self-image and self-esteem were sitting at the time, perhaps. It's the same with being out and seeing myself in mirrors/windows. If I feel good about myself, I don't care what anyone else thinks. If I don't, then other people's (real or perceived) negative reactions amplify my own insecurities.
I'd prefer something else, and will say so. If something isn't said in malice, really, who cares?
Quote from: Kirey on November 13, 2014, 04:31:50 PM
Meh ->-bleeped-<- sounds so... as if someone doesn't takes you serious. I don't like it to be called a ->-bleeped-<-. Also because ->-bleeped-<-s are often confused with travestites when with cis people.
I'll be honest, this post is confusing me. Transgender is a blanket term that includes transsexuals and ->-bleeped-<-s among others. ->-bleeped-<- is likely to be tossed at any of the groups.
Generally, I loath unthoughtful people. People who don't think before they say something. And if they say something, it seems to be a conditioned and predictable response, a reflex, like Pavlov's salivating dogs. The empty barrels rattle the most. I simply ignore these reactionary creatures. They are not worth being present in the brilliant garden of my mind. My inner sanctum is free of such vermin.
I just think the word sounds gross. Like... are you calling my a greasy car transmission system or something? Disgusting! No, sorry, I'm not a car part.
I kinda laugh at anyone trying to be otherwise insulting with that word though. It ends up being more of their problem than mine at that point.
Quote from: Jill F on November 13, 2014, 05:09:52 PM
I really hate it when I blow a ->-bleeped-<-. It's usually very expensive.
Oh you funny girl, thanks for the laugh
I have never really been called a ->-bleeped-<- so i can't say for sure how i would feel. I HAVE been called a shman to my face one and all i did was stare at the person until they left so i think i would be fine. unless they got aggressive with it
Quote from: Leah443 on November 13, 2014, 06:48:38 PM
I have never really been called a ->-bleeped-<- so i can't say for sure how i would feel. I HAVE been called a shman to my face one and all i did was stare at the person until they left so i think i would be fine. unless they got aggressive with it
Shman, first time I heard that!
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on November 13, 2014, 06:51:28 PM
Shman, first time I heard that!
Yeah if i didn't know it was an insult i would have found it hilarious xD
I honestly couldn't care less. It doesn't offend me. It's just a word. It's the context that counts. If someone were to use it in a disrespectful or malicious manner, then sure, that would bother me, because they were being disrespectful or malicious. If someone was innocuously using it in the place of 'transgender,' then it wouldn't bother me. Depending on the situation, I might tell them I prefer they refer to me as a trans girl, if it's necessary to bring my transgender status into the conversation at all. Otherwise I'd prefer they just address me as any other woman and leave any references to me being trans out of it.
Never been called it myself, but the real world usage I've heard of it.... Well, it's been spat with such hate and vitriol, to me it's a hateful and ugly expression that I would be happy to never hear again. Yes, it is more about the intent than the word itself, as with any turn of phrase, but that is one in particular that presses my buttons (and I'm certain a few psychological triggers).... The kind of crap that drove me into hiding for quarter of century. Screw that word.
It does & it doesn't, some people just don't know the hurt behind the word and educating them helps.
The one word that is used a lot in our community that really bothers & upsets me (it can lead to tears) is "sissy".
I f*&^ing hate when crossdressers use it, I hate it when its used to degrade women as being a weaker sex and I hate the term.
Why does it bother you if a crossdresser self identifies that way? As a CD myself, I don't use that term, in fact, I usually see people trying to use it as a weapon against us. Like that thing going around Facebook with the transsexual sitting in her underwear. The caption says "I am a woman. I'm not a sissy with a fetish" Sooooo, why are you posting on Facebook in lingerie? That's a fetish. This crossdresser manages to keep her clothes on while using Facebook.
Quote from: Nicole on November 13, 2014, 07:59:02 PM
It does & it doesn't, some people just don't know the hurt behind the word and educating them helps.
The one word that is used a lot in our community that really bothers & upsets me (it can lead to tears) is "sissy".
I f*&^ing hate when crossdressers use it, I hate it when its used to degrade women as being a weaker sex and I hate the term.
I know a number of cis women my age and a little older that use it to refer to other women their approximate age. It kind of threw me at first when a few I know used it for me, but then I heard them use it in similar fashion for other cis women many times as well. I guess its similar to using sister or something.
Quote from: Nicole on November 13, 2014, 07:59:02 PM
It does & it doesn't, some people just don't know the hurt behind the word and educating them helps.
The one word that is used a lot in our community that really bothers & upsets me (it can lead to tears) is "sissy".
I f*&^ing hate when crossdressers use it, I hate it when its used to degrade women as being a weaker sex and I hate the term.
Why does being called a sissy bother you so much? :o If I may ask?
Picture this.
Every single day you were in high school (at an all boys school) being kicked, punched and pushed around being called "the sissy".
I would go home a wreck, crying from the second I was by myself to the second mum came home, the kicking, punching & pushing I could deal with, the word sissy drove me to places I hated being in
Quote from: Nicole on November 13, 2014, 08:45:17 PM
Picture this.
Every single day you were in high school (at an all boys school) being kicked, punched and pushed around being called "the sissy".
I would go home a wreck, crying from the second I was by myself to the second mum came home, the kicking, punching & pushing I could deal with, the word sissy drove me to places I hated being in
I sympathize completely. In junior high school my name was "little f****t sissy boy" and got pummeled on a daily basis. One day, my 8th grade go-to bully had me pinned down and punched me repeatedly while saying, "You're such a f*****g WOMAN!" I wonder if he knows by now that he was beating up a girl. Strangely enough, he was the one whose band got signed.
Quote from: Jill F on November 13, 2014, 08:52:57 PM
I sympathize completely. In junior high school my name was "little f****t sissy boy" and got pummeled on a daily basis. One day, my 8th grade go-to bully had me pinned down and punched me repeatedly while saying, "You're such a f*****g WOMAN!" I wonder if he knows by now that he was beating up a girl. Strangely enough, he was the one whose band got signed.
I'll never forget the look on my mums face when she saw a bruise, I had been hiding it for so long, they never hit me in the face, only around the body and I never wore shorts cause I would have bruises up & down my legs, one day I was getting change and she thought I was in the kitchen and she walked into my room, me half naked, my chest & ribs covered in almost a purple paint.
She fell on the bed, in tears and asked me what happened, I said I was being picked on, she let me get dressed, drove me to school dragged me in to the office, knocked the principal's door down, tore my shirt open and said "if you don't find the c*&^s that did this, I will and I will kill them".
It happened again a week later, this time for 'telling", she took me out of school as the school seemed like it didn't care and about 2 weeks later I came out.
Needless to say, that woman is my hero
After being bullied in elementary school and junior high school and my dad making fun of me at the the dinner table often to my brother's enjoyment, offensive terms just pass through me. I guess I developed a very thick skin out of necessity but then again, I feel strange receiving compliments.
I don't think any terms would bother me. I even joke about the terms people use. I was upset a few weeks back and was crying a little. My friend asked, "Are you crying" and I replied... "No I am just leaking, its ->-bleeped-<- fluid!" then we just laughed and laughed.
Love
Jade
:-*
It seems kinda like our version of the N-word that African Americans have now taken ownership of, maybe it's also word that we can use ourselves in a bit of a light hearted and non serious way, but not appropriate for those outside of our 'community to use to refer to us.. It's really the context it is used that determines if it bothers me or not. I have teased some my close friends in the about 'meeting up with ->-bleeped-<-s in bars' when we were catching up and they were looking a little too serious, it definitely helped to lighten the mood lol, but that's my twisted sense of humour. :P
I've never been called a ->-bleeped-<- before but I don't think I'd like that at all. I'm a woman or if you want to refer to my medical condition then trans, transgender or transsexual are all fine. I think part of the reason why I don't like the word ->-bleeped-<- is because I feel it's, barring cases of reclamation, the vernacular of those who have no respect for us and wish to degrade us. If you turn off the safety filter on Google and go to images and type in "trans woman", "transgender woman", etc and then compare it to the entries that people tag with the word "->-bleeped-<-" you'll see what I'm talking about. The contrast is night and day. ->-bleeped-<- is a derogatory term with severely negative connotations and personally I'd feel quite upset if someone called me that.
Personally I don't like being called that because it is usually followed by some kind of booty call or something. I am not like that. I don't really care about what the general public thinks anyway. However I do sometimes use the word ->-bleeped-<-, but only with close family who are aware of my gender complication.
I don't like the word but it is tolerable among trans people. Cis people haven't earned the right to use that word. That's how I see it.
There are many worse things to be called than ->-bleeped-<-, sooo, it is not extremely offensive to me...
The same as some transexuals dont like the word and prefer to be classed as transgender...
(But in my eyes, if you are transitioning, you are transexual)
^ I agree completely
although I must admit i loathe referring to myself as transsexual, simply because of the 'sexual' in the word, i get the feeling that when I use transsexual people view it as like a sexual preference or something?...I don't know, I just don't like it that much
I don't know, I prefer "transgender" or just "trans*"
as for "->-bleeped-<-" I hate it, along with "->-bleeped-<-", "heShe" and "Ladyboy"
I think its almost a combination of "sex-worker" and "fake-woman" (not that everyone who says that means that or that there's anything wrong with being a sex worker). Its the same as calling someone a "whore" and then an extra element of badness and while I'm totally ok when another trans* person uses it to describe themselves, someone else or me/ make a joke or when a close friend of mine uses it in a completely harmless/ lighthearted manner, generally speaking I loathe "->-bleeped-<-" and never use it.
As for "sissy" I'm not a fan, I hate it as much and still never use it.
So that's my two cents, hopefully that's all ok and reasonable :)
If not its just my opinion and just ignore it :P
I don't know anyone ignorant enough to use the word ->-bleeped-<- but as far as I know that refers to a ->-bleeped-<- so yes I would be annoyed.
Names don't bother me too much. I don't really care for the term ->-bleeped-<- though. Personally I think it one of those outdated terms. The only thing that bothers me is being called and "It". ->-bleeped-<-, she-male, he-she and all the others still describe a human just like the B word, W word, C word, he, she, him and her but calling someone an "It" strips a person of their humanity and suggests that the person is nothing more than an object. Something less than human. We are someones, not somethings.
Quote from: Kirey on November 13, 2014, 04:31:50 PM
Meh ->-bleeped-<- sounds so... as if someone doesn't takes you serious. I don't like it to be called a ->-bleeped-<-. Also because ->-bleeped-<-s are often confused with travestites when with cis people.
Yeah this.
I don't want to be called a ->-bleeped-<-. It implies that you're not real and authentic and that you're fake and pretending.
The context is important too.
I have been called racial slurs already, such as "coolie" and "rag head" and "sand n-word", even though I don't wear any head gear (I don't belong to any religion that requires it). It bothered me a lot in school, but the teachers really did not do anything about it because I suspect they were racist too. I did get used to it though and I don't let it slow me down. But it does bother me. I suspect it will be the same with "->-bleeped-<-."
We're getting closer than I'm comfortable with to making ->-bleeped-<-s feel unwelcome here. ->-bleeped-<-s use this site for support, too.
Hugs, Devlyn
->-bleeped-<- means different things in different situations.
In the gay male drag culture, it's a term of endearment, hence why RuPaul and several of his contestants see nothing wrong with the term.
However, in wider culture, the term ->-bleeped-<- often is associated with prostitution, perversion, and is frequently used as an insult against transwomen when they are being attacked. Even those murdered may have heard it as the last word they heard, based on admissions from from various transwomen murderers over the years.
So the term ->-bleeped-<- can be considered very very "loaded" and while some are not offended by it at all, for others it can be triggering (making them recall prior physical assaults, for instance), so I would urge everyone to be respectful of others and generally refrain from using the term unless you are sure others are ok with it. And be willing to stop using it if asked.
It's a complicated word with a complicated history, some of that history being very ugly.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on November 14, 2014, 09:47:58 AM
We're getting closer than I'm comfortable with to making ->-bleeped-<-s feel unwelcome here. ->-bleeped-<-s use this site for support, too.
Hugs, Devlyn
I'm sorry Devlyn. I didn't mean any harm. That is just the word everyone used when I was growing up for anyone that cross dressed all the way to have sexual reassignment surgery. The term sex change gives me the same feeling. I'm sorry because I didn't mean any harm, it was just the way the word was used when I was growing up, and usually in a negative sort of way. Plus coming to terms with myself and hearing people call everyone transgender a ->-bleeped-<- is the reason why. It don't bother me as much as remind me of those years. Once I came to terms wit myself and accepted it fully, no problem but it just brings back certain memories.
So my deepest apologies. I am so sorry.
Simple. Yes, I'm mad as hell when someone calls me that, and I don't use the word. If someone wants to call themselves something that's not acceptable to most transsexuals I don't care, and they're more than welcome to do so. Just leave me and my friends out of it.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on November 14, 2014, 09:47:58 AM
We're getting closer than I'm comfortable with to making ->-bleeped-<-s feel unwelcome here. ->-bleeped-<-s use this site for support, too.
Hugs, Devlyn
In no way do I mean to insult ->-bleeped-<-s but the question was does the term annoy us and I think it is fair to say we are girls, ->-bleeped-<-s are guys who enjoy pretty cloths. Its that guy part held in the meaning that annoys me not the concept.
Yes, the question was does the term bother you. So everyone should tell us if it bothers them, not who they THINK the person using the term is comparing them to.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on November 14, 2014, 10:37:08 AM
Yes, the question was does the term bother you. So everyone should tell us if it bothers them, not who they THINK the person using the term is comparing them to.
Okay, I accept that and I apologize.
Quote from: Jess42 on November 14, 2014, 10:15:05 AM
I'm sorry Devlyn. I didn't mean any harm. That is just the word everyone used when I was growing up for anyone that cross dressed all the way to have sexual reassignment surgery. The term sex change gives me the same feeling. I'm sorry because I didn't mean any harm, it was just the way the word was used when I was growing up, and usually in a negative sort of way. Plus coming to terms with myself and hearing people call everyone transgender a ->-bleeped-<- is the reason why. It don't bother me as much as remind me of those years. Once I came to terms wit myself and accepted it fully, no problem but it just brings back certain memories.
So my deepest apologies. I am so sorry.
Quote from: LilDevilOfPrada on November 14, 2014, 10:45:48 AM
Okay, I accept that and I apologize.
Thanks, I wasn't looking for apologies, I just bristle when any transgender person is cast in a bad light on a support site, and I try to remind people to be aware of what they're posting.
Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on November 14, 2014, 10:53:17 AM
Thanks, I wasn't looking for apologies, I just bristle when any transgender person is cast in a bad light on a support site, and I try to remind people to be aware of what they're posting.
Hugs, Devlyn
I'm a big girl. I can apologize when my butt overrides my brain. I should have explained why to begin with.
Since I would like to be perceived as a cis woman someone calling me a ->-bleeped-<- (not even trans or something less offensive) yes it would bother me.
But no one has said it to my face.
Simply as a label or comment, no, it doesn't bother me.
I've never been called it but I hate the word. It's most commonly used by prejudiced people (at least where I live) and sensationalist stories in the media. Fair enough it's not the worst thing to be called, but if someone were to shout it at me in the street I'd be looking for the quickest way out of the area because there'd be a good chance violence could follow.
I completely lack the ability to be affected by insults, name-calling or other invective reactions from people. If I have no social bond with the person it's virtually impossible for me to even be able to empathize with them. It is the end result of all the discrimination, violence, and aggression I went through when I began that has caused this change...and I have no desire for it to revert. Words only have power if you give them the power to affect your emotional state.
I love how quickly this blew up haha The mixed opinions are interesting but they all narrow down to the fact that it's because it's an overall derogative term. Maybe I'll stop saying it as much :p
Fortunately I've never been called "->-bleeped-<-" - I think that if it happened I would need to evaluate the situation, the context and the person who said it. Generally I don't think I would be very impressed regardless, especially if it came from a cis person. I consider myself a person first and foremost, other labels be damned.
Quote from: TSJasmine on November 14, 2014, 02:57:06 PM
...it's an overall derogative term...
Yes it is.
Quote from: Ms Grace on November 14, 2014, 02:59:28 PM
Fortunately I've never been called "->-bleeped-<-" - I think that if it happened I would need to evaluate the situation, the context and the person who said it. Generally I don't think I would be very impressed regardless, especially if it came from a cis person. I consider myself a person first and foremost, other labels be damned.
I've been called it all on multiple occasions and in multiple social settings.
Quote from: LizMarie on November 14, 2014, 10:04:32 AM
->-bleeped-<- means different things in different situations.
In the gay male drag culture, it's a term of endearment, hence why RuPaul and several of his contestants see nothing wrong with the term.
However, in wider culture, the term ->-bleeped-<- often is associated with prostitution, perversion, and is frequently used as an insult against transwomen when they are being attacked. Even those murdered may have heard it as the last word they heard, based on admissions from from various transwomen murderers over the years.
So the term ->-bleeped-<- can be considered very very "loaded" and while some are not offended by it at all, for others it can be triggering (making them recall prior physical assaults, for instance), so I would urge everyone to be respectful of others and generally refrain from using the term unless you are sure others are ok with it. And be willing to stop using it if asked.
It's a complicated word with a complicated history, some of that history being very ugly.
This
Also search the internet for that word : ->-bleeped-<-.
So does it trigger me? Nope
Will that person feel shamed once i am done explaining what the word means? Probably for those who didn't mean it.
Yes it bothers me because it distorts my identity and adds a level of fetishism. Everything in context of course and how the word is used. Cis women aren't called ->-bleeped-<-s and when they are its used as an insult. Drag culture isn't the majority so just because they freely throw the word around doesn't justify it becoming the norm to describe us that are actually in transition. It's bad enough there's enough confusion over our community concerning language, that word does nothing but add to that confusion. trans women are women, that word just makes it more difficult for proper education to get across.
It really depends on context for me. I still use the term myself from time to time but I am very conscious of when or how I use it. Usually I use it is self deprecating and self referential ways.
I have certainly changed my overall opinion of the word in the last few years. I used to see no harm in it at all. That has changed.
I don't like the term. The few times someone has called me that, I've told them that if they wish to remain in my presence, they had better never use it again for me.
Quote from: Squircle on November 14, 2014, 02:43:39 PM
I've never been called it but I hate the word. It's most commonly used by prejudiced people (at least where I live) and sensationalist stories in the media. Fair enough it's not the worst thing to be called, but if someone were to shout it at me in the street I'd be looking for the quickest way out of the area because there'd be a good chance violence could follow.
I'd be looking to confront them. I give as good as I get.
I've used it to joke about myself for example "->-bleeped-<- loving ->-bleeped-<-." Since I skateboard and mainly on transition (ramps, pools etc.) I thought it made sense and the term sounded funny and the sentence could be completely flipped and still be the same. Also I am queer and since starting to transition have only dated/played with other trans* identifying people. I prefer to hear and just use "trans" in my everyday speech over "->-bleeped-<-" though.
l think it's okay for other trans* people to use it, so long as it isn't with malice. When it comes to cis people, I feel like the word doesn't belong to them, they have no right to use it. I have never been called a ->-bleeped-<- by a stranger, but if it were between "That's a dude!" or "That's a ->-bleeped-<-!" I'd have to choose the latter. To me being called a man is an insult, but I am definitely trans so......
Quote from: TSJasmine on November 13, 2014, 03:04:45 PM
Being called a ->-bleeped-<- hasn't & I don't feel it ever will bother me. I even call myself it sometimes. I don't view it as offensive & I never really have but I noticed a lot of people on here get offended when someone calls them a ->-bleeped-<- :o Why is that? What's so offensive about it? It's a slur somewhat but I can't see it in a negative context unless someone is like "OH SH**, THAT'S A ->-bleeped-<-!" or something rude like that. So I'm wondering , do you guys find it rude? Or are there a lot more like me who honestly just don't care?
Yes it does, I am a girl, not a ->-bleeped-<-, heshe, shehe, ->-bleeped-<-, ->-bleeped-<-, sheman, manwoman, "it," or "that" "this thing" "the___" that is not girl.. or any other kinds of silliness. ->-bleeped-<- is an honest mistake, nothing else. I can tolerate people calling me without frequency: trans woman/girl, transgender female and the most offensive thing I can tolerate, is a MtF transexual.
I am a girl first, transgender person second. (Of course a human heing is before girl)
I went by a DOT alert sign yesterday night on the highway. I was going by it fast but I felt like it was calling me Trans, it said...
Have your Trans-
ponder ready
for easy access.
But i read it as "Have your Trans ready for easy access"... I was like WOW what did that sign just say? It kind of messed with my head. :o
It bothers me because I don't like being considered a catchy "label." I am me. I am a human being worthy of respect. I'm not a wop, chink, dago, jap, dink, ruskie, charlie, n****r, kafer, hood rat, sand n****r,spic, mick, kraut, block head, gook... You get the idea...
When we relegate people to a derogatory label we degrade who they are...we degrade that special part of them that is unique...that spark of the Divine. We degrade the person...
If you let it bother you then they win. I learned that as a child. Brush it off. If they use it in a derogatory manner then they are ignorant. Stay away from them if you can. Ignorance is contagious don't fall into their trap.
Yes. It bothers me that the person saying it is uneducated.
Quote from: Jade_404 on November 15, 2014, 03:19:41 AM
If you let it bother you then they win. I learned that as a child. Brush it off. If they use it in a derogatory manner then they are ignorant. Stay away from them if you can. Ignorance is contagious don't fall into their trap.
If we ignore it and don't say as a community that this word isn't ok then they win, because they carry on using it, and they get to carry on 'othering' us.
Quote from: Squircle on November 15, 2014, 05:03:53 AM
If we ignore it and don't say as a community that this word isn't ok then they win, because they carry on using it, and they get to carry on 'othering' us.
Even if we say as a community that it is wrong, they won't understand and still call us that, remember they are ignorant, we can't fix stupid.
I have been called all kinds of things, I can't even remember how many times. I don't dwell on it and I don't let it effect me. And the word ->-bleeped-<- does not even sound that bad to me, I could list a bunch of worse vulgar names I have heard, ->-bleeped-<- is mild in comparison.
Quote from: Tori on November 14, 2014, 05:44:36 PM
It really depends on context for me. I still use the term myself from time to time but I am very conscious of when or how I use it. Usually I use it is self deprecating and self referential ways.
I have certainly changed my overall opinion of the word in the last few years. I used to see no harm in it at all. That has changed.
Quote from: Pikachu on November 13, 2014, 07:14:29 PM
I honestly couldn't care less. It doesn't offend me. It's just a word. It's the context that counts. If someone were to use it in a disrespectful or malicious manner, then sure, that would bother me, because they were being disrespectful or malicious. If someone was innocuously using it in the place of 'transgender,' then it wouldn't bother me. Depending on the situation, I might tell them I prefer they refer to me as a trans girl, if it's necessary to bring my transgender status into the conversation at all. Otherwise I'd prefer they just address me as any other woman and leave any references to me being trans out of it.
My thoughts.
I still try to avoid using it and most people I spend time with do too. The only person who regularly uses it is a cross-dresser from Chameleons I get on well with.
I have not been called ->-bleeped-<- this week. My wife and daughter have used it a lot especially when being disrespectful. I think they both have anger issues toward me because I hid my gender from them and they really do not like me. They loved the other guy but he died.
I told them it has a sex worker (nothing wrong with being a sex worker) porn background and is meant as a slur. Also, I told them it makes them sound like a bigot.
Simply put, I think it reduces you from a person to being a medical condition, dehumanizing and its most common use by those who don't accept us is to degrade someone, be they cis or trans. I don't care to hear it from trans people either. I figure if we don't want someone outside our community calling us that, regardless of the context, then we shouldn't either, you know, be a good example and all.
Quote from: Jaime R D on November 15, 2014, 08:17:19 AM
Simply put, I think it reduces you from a person to being a medical condition, dehumanizing and its most common use by those who don't accept us is to degrade someone, be they cis or trans. I don't care to hear it from trans people either. I figure if we don't want someone outside our community calling us that, regardless of the context, then we shouldn't either, you know, be a good example and all.
I couldn't have said it better myself Jaime. My thoughts exactly.
In my experience (though perhaps other people's is different) whenever a cisperson uses this word, they virtually always intend it as an insult. I think it's up to each person to decide for themselves how they'll react to it.
Quote from: Kaylee Angelia on November 14, 2014, 09:49:51 PM
It bothers me because I don't like being considered a catchy "label." I am me. I am a human being worthy of respect. I'm not a wop, chink, dago, jap, dink, ruskie, charlie, n****r, kafer, hood rat, sand n****r,spic, mick, kraut, block head, gook... You get the idea...
When we relegate people to a derogatory label we degrade who they are...we degrade that special part of them that is unique...that spark of the Divine. We degrade the person...
But I would fully agree with Kaylee's post here. Consider all the slurs she's listed. Would any of us use any of those terms? I don't think so. So there's no reason for transpeople not to object to "->-bleeped-<-" if we choose to. The intent is to degrade us just as all those other terms are intended to degrade. Again, just a question of how an individual reacts to such insults.
Words are funny. So much depends on how they're said. I grew up in the US but have lived in Ireland for half my life. I remember once when somebody called me "You Yankee b*stard!" It really shocked me, because he put a lot of venom in it. And when a term is used like that, it can pull the rug out from under you. But this was one I wasn't bothered about for long, because the guy saying it was a fairly low creature, enjoyed no respect in the neighbourhood and was generally shunned by people.
People who use such slurs demonstrate that they're worthy of them themselves.
I guess it used to bother me the most when people called me a girl when I was growing up. They did so in a very derogatory manner. Sometimes they add something before the word girl to make it sting more. You know the words. But now I don't give a crap what anyone calls me, I am not in grade 1. When I am called a girl now, I smile. If I am called anything else I just smile too, a fake smile or confused smile. When I am called a girl now I smile on the inside as well as on the outside. I guess I might react differently if someone was in my face, total a-hole about it. I have not had that happen in a long time, I think the smile calms them, they can't tell what I have up my sleeve and my smile turns menacing if they don't calm down. Then they walk away mumbling crap. Maybe I been lucky. Or maybe I have a real menacing smile if I need it.
Who knows, but I am old enough to know that if I make a big deal about a word like ->-bleeped-<- , or any of the other labels people might call me, then I am giving THEM the power to control me. You know what, no one controls me except me. I refuse to let it bother me, and I refuse to let others root that term in our collective consciousness as a word they can use to upset us. A power word. I don't want to be called it, but If I am I won't let it control me.
Love,
Jade
;D <--- menacing enough?
Quote from: Jade_404 on November 15, 2014, 05:35:39 AM
Even if we say as a community that it is wrong, they won't understand and still call us that, remember they are ignorant, we can't fix stupid.
I have been called all kinds of things, I can't even remember how many times. I don't dwell on it and I don't let it effect me. And the word ->-bleeped-<- does not even sound that bad to me, I could list a bunch of worse vulgar names I have heard, ->-bleeped-<- is mild in comparison.
There are plenty of people who perhaps use it without realising how offensive it can be. Just like how other groups have made a stand against certain words, we have to do the same. I don't personally think ->-bleeped-<- is mild, plenty of posts here explain why more eloquently than I can. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to have a bit of your 'don't give a ****' attitude :).
I have never been called such myself.
But the word, to me, carries far too much baggage associated with fetishism, drag queens and she-male pornography for me to be comfortable with; as such it is a less than appealing word in every way, and is simply not cricket with me.
Kami.
Quote from: Kamiki on November 15, 2014, 04:38:20 PM
I have never been called such myself.
But the word, to me, carries far too much baggage associated with fetishism, drag queens and she-male pornography for me to be comfortable with; as such it is a less than appealing word in every way, and is simply not cricket with me.
Kami.
Yeah Sorry, I guess I don't read into the baggage or definition of a word when its being spewed by an idiot. Why would I take the time. If my friend were calling me that or referring me to his friends as that, I would ask them not to. It is not a pretty label. When its strangers, I don't let this word or any another word sting. When I was younger tho... I could snap on ya, if you said the wrong thing to me or one of my friends. Been in fights been in jail, sent people to hospital. Been in court... Got the book thrown at me. Learned to shut up and just smile. Now I am cautious, Be ready for a fight but never escalate one. So far since I changed my attitude I have been in only 1 fight since, and that was because a freeloader would not get out of my house, so it was different. He started that fight by attacking me.
So yes I agree its not nice to say or be called, but is it "Fighting Words? No I think not. And I don't want friends referring to me as their ->-bleeped-<- friend either. My friends are smart enough to know that without being told. I don't friend idiots.
Love,
Jade
You know what word got me into most fights. Freak. As in "Hey guys look at this freak." or, "What do you want freak" "What are you looking at freak!" I think freak is just wrong on so many levels that a word like ->-bleeped-<- is nothing once you develop a tough skin. If I ever see someone picking on a handicap person, especially if they are calling them freak. I will just freak out on them and show them what a real freak is! In a way we are handicap, we have genetic disorders, and we are NOT freaks.
Love,
Jade
Quote from: Kamiki on November 15, 2014, 04:38:20 PM
I have never been called such myself.
But the word, to me, carries far too much baggage associated with fetishism, drag queens and she-male pornography for me to be comfortable with; as such it is a less than appealing word in every way, and is simply not cricket with me.
Kami.
I'm not thrilled with this post either. We all have a fetish, unless you don't like sex at all. Not cool to judge others. Drag queens are part of this community and this site, so boo on ya for that. If a ->-bleeped-<- walks into this site, she'll get the same big hug everyone gets. I'll say it again, the hread asks if it bothers YOU. Don't drag innocent people trying to live their lives their way into it, please.
Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: Jill F on November 13, 2014, 05:09:52 PM
It isn't fun, but sometimes it precedes getting suckerpunched (or worse). Thankfully that part hasn't happened to me yet.
Yeah, this.
It bothers me, greatly, since the only notable time it has happened to me was preceding violence on a biblical scale. I will always,
always have that association with it now. Whether it's applied to me, or anyone else.
Sometimes words can be uttered with such hate-filled venom... with such ugly, evil intent, that their meaning is clear. And a precursor.
It not only bothers me, it scares me.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on November 15, 2014, 05:22:06 PMIf a ->-bleeped-<- walks into this site
There was an uproar recently over a news article that referred to a slain trans women as a ->-bleeped-<-; and here you are using the same terminology.
If we can't get our ->-bleeped-<- straight as to what terms are appropriate or inappropriate, how can we expect others to?
I haven't been called a ->-bleeped-<- directly but when I hear it on TV or something it just kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I doubt I would get offended if it wasn't said to be offensive, but personally I'm not a fan of the word. I think ->-bleeped-<- is more commonly associated with ->-bleeped-<- or misunderstood notions than when someone uses the word Trans. But that could just be me.
Never been called a ->-bleeped-<- or a ->-bleeped-<- (to my face at least...) I'd most likely respond with violence of some sort I think. If my past is anyone's business, I'm a transsexual woman. If I'm ever referred to as "transgender" by family or drs for example, I correct them and explain what that word means and why the difference is so important.
Quote from: kaye on November 15, 2014, 09:38:52 PM
There was an uproar recently over a news article that referred to a slain trans women as a ->-bleeped-<-; and here you are using the same terminology.
If we can't get our ->-bleeped-<- straight as to what terms are appropriate or inappropriate, how can we expect others to?
I have my stuff straight, thank you very much. You need to brush up on the site mission and rules. We provide support to ALL transgender people, and transgender is defined by the site owner as:
Community Definitions:
Transgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynes, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and ->-bleeped-<-s.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html
So yes, someone who identifies as a ->-bleeped-<- is welcome here. I'll be the first one in their introduction thread, welcoming them.
Actually I was describing why it bothers me. Not bagging on our fellow sisters.
Please try to avoid such leaps to heroism when nothing ill was meant. Perhaps ask for clarification. Assuming the worst of people is one of the less pleasing things I have noted about this site. I have seen numerous threads that started off assuming the worst of someone and the person basically having to show through consistent re-explaining of themselves that such was not the case.
To be quite frank, I am actually a bit miffed that my explaining why it bothers me put you off. My reasons are my own and reading too much into them, and then projecting insecurities or issues on to me was simply not cricket. Also, for the record, I am not sure why the term "simply not cricket" came off as an indicator I would consider for one second violence (based on the responses of "I used to get into fights", unless they were not meant as a direct reply) it is an older British term used by those who are part of the chappist movement to refer to something that is not acceptable.
Why would my personal reasons (the baggage associated with the word; i.e. that people associate it with people who are into drag and or choose to carry the term ->-bleeped-<- as a moniker) bother you? I have nothing against either ->-bleeped-<-s or drag queens rather I have something against people assuming I am either of them because I am, simply, not.
I am neither booing nor disparaging drag queens or she males, I am saying that the general association of that word to those states of being is one of the reasons I personally dislike it as I do not associate myself with either of those states of existence and or being. I consider myself a woman who was born with a deformity as such I would rather not carry any verbal baggage (again this is not referring to the people, but rather the societal and linguistic baggage associated with the word and its usage in modern days) with me by using or accepting the use of the word ->-bleeped-<- to describe me.
I think people woefully misread me there. When I spoke of fetishism I mean the fetishism seen in cis men (and some women) when watching, or enjoying pornography of a certain milieu, the very fetishism that degrades us and objectifies us as "things". When I spoke of drag queens, it was not disparaging it was simply that I do not consider myself nor have I ever considered myself into "drag" and as such I would not want the use of a word to put me into that category of lifestyle choice. Which to me is part of the baggage associated with the word ->-bleeped-<-.
Sorry if the way I speak made that any less that clear.
Kami.
Quote from: Jade_404 on November 15, 2014, 05:09:30 PM
Yeah Sorry, I guess I don't read into the baggage or definition of a word when its being spewed by an idiot. Why would I take the time. If my friend were calling me that or referring me to his friends as that, I would ask them not to. It is not a pretty label. When its strangers, I don't let this word or any another word sting. When I was younger tho... I could snap on ya, if you said the wrong thing to me or one of my friends. Been in fights been in jail, sent people to hospital. Been in court... Got the book thrown at me. Learned to shut up and just smile. Now I am cautious, Be ready for a fight but never escalate one. So far since I changed my attitude I have been in only 1 fight since, and that was because a freeloader would not get out of my house, so it was different. He started that fight by attacking me.
So yes I agree its not nice to say or be called, but is it "Fighting Words? No I think not. And I don't want friends referring to me as their ->-bleeped-<- friend either. My friends are smart enough to know that without being told. I don't friend idiots.
Love,
Jade
Simply not cricket does not mean fighting words.
My stars, what ever would give you such an impression.
Simply not cricket, is used much in the same way that the less appealing (and inappropriate) "not kosher at all" is used. It is used to describe something as less than acceptable. It is not an indication of violence. In fact, the chap that would resort to violence is no longer a chap, but rather a tiresome prat or maybe even a chav.
As for reading into the baggage of words spouted by strangers. We all do it to one degree or another. Certain words carry with them more or less implied baggage.
I am going to bring one up and yet am not going to address it direct lest someone take me the wrong way again.
The South Park Episode "Gays against ->-bleeped-<-s", addressed this point in a humorous and lighthearted way. In this episode we see the word "->-bleeped-<-" being thrown around a great deal. And the baggage associated with anti gay sentiments of course boils to the top. Over the course of the episode it is made increasingly clear that another use of the word as it is now; is when it is used to refer to someone with no manners and a loud or obnoxious nature. The guy who cuts you off on the highway, bikers who can't stop revving their motorcycles, and other minor irritants. The folk of South Park rally behind the new use of the word. Led by some colourful South Park characters they manage to wrestle the definition of the word, casting off old baggage that bothered them and changing its definition in the South Park version of Websters Dictionary.
Now, why bring up an irreverent South Park episode. That word. ->-bleeped-<-. It is probably one of the easiest to use examples of a word with baggage. Whether spouted by the ignorant, uneducated, or other you are likely to note it, its use, and it will likely carry some extra crap with it you are not that fond of.
I feel similarly, for different reasons, about ->-bleeped-<-.
Kami.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on November 15, 2014, 05:22:06 PM
I'm not thrilled with this post either. We all have a fetish, unless you don't like sex at all. Not cool to judge others. Drag queens are part of this community and this site, so boo on ya for that. If a ->-bleeped-<- walks into this site, she'll get the same big hug everyone gets. I'll say it again, the hread asks if it bothers YOU. Don't drag innocent people trying to live their lives their way into it, please.
Hugs, Devlyn
You totally misread me in every way. I have posted clarification.
Kami.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on November 15, 2014, 05:22:06 PM
I'm not thrilled with this post either. We all have a fetish, unless you don't like sex at all. Not cool to judge others. Drag queens are part of this community and this site, so boo on ya for that. If a ->-bleeped-<- walks into this site, she'll get the same big hug everyone gets. I'll say it again, the hread asks if it bothers YOU. Don't drag innocent people trying to live their lives their way into it, please.
Hugs, Devlyn
Not wanting to be identified with a term that is associated fetishism, drag queens, and pornography is in no way a judgement of those who are. I am not transitioning because I get my jollies off from it, nor is it a performance to me. It is my identity, and just because I want to make a distinction between my identity and a drag queen's doesn't mean I think any less of drag queens.
Quote from: skin on November 16, 2014, 12:11:33 PM
Not wanting to be identified with a term that is associated fetishism, drag queens, and pornography is in no way a judgement of those who are. I am not transitioning because I get my jollies off from it, nor is it a performance to me. It is my identity, and just because I want to make a distinction between my identity and a drag queen's doesn't mean I think any less of drag queens.
Thank you Skin.
I am terribly saddened people a) misread me so, and b) judged me based on their own misreading.
Thank you, so very much for understanding what I meant as I initially wrote it rather than after I clarified.
Kami.
Whether right or wrong, words can hurt people depending on the context of how it's being used, the tone with which it's communicated and by whom it's being intended. A large part is also our response to the usage.
I personally don't like the term, but I understand its history and where it was derived from. It's been used on me personally and as recently as this past week by some of the people I love(d) the most and it does hurt and inflict its own wounds and the scars it leaves behind are painful. I choose to ignore the ignorance and turn a blind eye, as sometimes the fight or argument isn't worth the effort.
There are better words to describe each of our situations and l prefer to be respectful to those around me and sue terminology that is forthright and considerate.
Hugs, Jenni
Quote from: Kamiki on November 16, 2014, 11:25:25 AM
Actually I was describing why it bothers me. Not bagging on our fellow sisters.
Please try to avoid such leaps to heroism when nothing ill was meant. Perhaps ask for clarification. Assuming the worst of people is one of the less pleasing things I have noted about this site. I have seen numerous threads that started off assuming the worst of someone and the person basically having to show through consistent re-explaining of themselves that such was not the case.
To be quite frank, I am actually a bit miffed that my explaining why it bothers me put you off. My reasons are my own and reading too much into them, and then projecting insecurities or issues on to me was simply not cricket. Also, for the record, I am not sure why the term "simply not cricket" came off as an indicator I would consider for one second violence (based on the responses of "I used to get into fights", unless they were not meant as a direct reply) it is an older British term used by those who are part of the chappist movement to refer to something that is not acceptable.
Why would my personal reasons (the baggage associated with the word; i.e. that people associate it with people who are into drag and or choose to carry the term ->-bleeped-<- as a moniker) bother you? I have nothing against either ->-bleeped-<-s or drag queens rather I have something against people assuming I am either of them because I am, simply, not.
I am neither booing nor disparaging drag queens or she males, I am saying that the general association of that word to those states of being is one of the reasons I personally dislike it as I do not associate myself with either of those states of existence and or being. I consider myself a woman who was born with a deformity as such I would rather not carry any verbal baggage (again this is not referring to the people, but rather the societal and linguistic baggage associated with the word and its usage in modern days) with me by using or accepting the use of the word ->-bleeped-<- to describe me.
I think people woefully misread me there. When I spoke of fetishism I mean the fetishism seen in cis men (and some women) when watching, or enjoying pornography of a certain milieu, the very fetishism that degrades us and objectifies us as "things". When I spoke of drag queens, it was not disparaging it was simply that I do not consider myself nor have I ever considered myself into "drag" and as such I would not want the use of a word to put me into that category of lifestyle choice. Which to me is part of the baggage associated with the word ->-bleeped-<-.
Sorry if the way I speak made that any less that clear.
Kami.
Not sure who you're replying to here, but characterizing the replies as "leaps of heroism" is pretty smarmy. See TOS #5.
Quote from: Kamiki on November 16, 2014, 11:42:54 AM
Simply not cricket does not mean fighting words.
My stars, what ever would give you such an impression.
Simply not cricket, is used much in the same way that the less appealing (and inappropriate) "not kosher at all" is used. It is used to describe something as less than acceptable. It is not an indication of violence. In fact, the chap that would resort to violence is no longer a chap, but rather a tiresome prat or maybe even a chav.
As for reading into the baggage of words spouted by strangers. We all do it to one degree or another. Certain words carry with them more or less implied baggage.
I am going to bring one up and yet am not going to address it direct lest someone take me the wrong way again.
The South Park Episode "Gays against ->-bleeped-<-s", addressed this point in a humorous and lighthearted way. In this episode we see the word "->-bleeped-<-" being thrown around a great deal. And the baggage associated with anti gay sentiments of course boils to the top. Over the course of the episode it is made increasingly clear that another use of the word as it is now; is when it is used to refer to someone with no manners and a loud or obnoxious nature. The guy who cuts you off on the highway, bikers who can't stop revving their motorcycles, and other minor irritants. The folk of South Park rally behind the new use of the word. Led by some colourful South Park characters they manage to wrestle the definition of the word, casting off old baggage that bothered them and changing its definition in the South Park version of Websters Dictionary.
Now, why bring up an irreverent South Park episode. That word. ->-bleeped-<-. It is probably one of the easiest to use examples of a word with baggage. Whether spouted by the ignorant, uneducated, or other you are likely to note it, its use, and it will likely carry some extra crap with it you are not that fond of.
I feel similarly, for different reasons, about ->-bleeped-<-.
Kami.
Oh sorry, I read it wrong. Crickets are usually ready to jump... or frogs for that matter..." Feeling froggy? lets jump!" So, I assumed its context was intended to mean that you would not ignore a comment but actually engage the person. You see what happens when we try to read into what others mean by the words they use, we are not always correct. Someone may use the word ->-bleeped-<- and not know or have any bad intent in doing so. Others may use it to try to incite violence or to try to degrade someone. I am not going to let that word or any other bother me. Life is too short.
Love,
Jade
:-*
Devlyn, it was directed at you. I have no qualms with being honest about it.
You assumed I was judging others and rushed to correct me and defend them. That is a leap of heroism that was not needed. Smarmy or not, you chose to apply your misunderstanding of my words in a manner that seemed like you were standing up for the little people.
No little people were implied, or insulted. No one needed saving or defending in any way.
I drug no one into it. You did. I answered why the term bothered ME. Which it seems you missed since you said,
"I'll say it again, the thread asks if it bothers YOU. Don't drag innocent people trying to live their lives their way into it, please."
You are both defending people who are not in need of defense, aforementioned heroism, and missing the fact that that is EXACTLY what I did.
If you dislike the reasons the word bothers me, then such is fine as well. You are not me. My reasons are mine to have and I should not have to defend/explain/expound on them to anyone.
Kami.
Some words have power only if we let them. I've been called ->-bleeped-<- and ->-bleeped-<- and ignore it every time. As long as violence doesn't follow I let the empty, parroted words of the stupid roll right on by.
The one time I was called ->-bleeped-<- was actually kind of funny. I was working as a nurse in a maximum security, all-women's prison in Texas. As I was walking back to the infirmary my afternoon diabetics were lining up to get their insulin as another group of inmates were walking by to whatever work detail they were on. I've been androgynous for years (long hair, multiple piercings in both ears) and as I walked by the other group of inmates one of them loudly said, "Look, a ->-bleeped-<-!" My diabetics, some of whom came in two to three times a day for insulin and had come to know me very well, jumped on her so fast I barely saw what happened. They told her, in no uncertain terms, never to be disregardful to "their" nurse like that again.
I never had another issue in my time there.
Quote from: Jade_404 on November 16, 2014, 12:42:14 PM
Oh sorry, I read it wrong. Crickets are usually ready to jump... or frogs for that matter..." Feeling froggy? lets jump!" So, I assumed its context was intended to mean that you would not ignore a comment but actually engage the person. You see what happens when we try to read into what others mean by the words they use, we are not always correct. Someone may use the word ->-bleeped-<- and not know or have any bad intent in doing so. Others may use it to try to incite violence or to try to degrade someone. I am not going to let that word or any other bother me. Life is too short.
Love,
Jade
:-*
My apologies,
I see how you could have derived that from it consider the "feeling froggy" comparison.
For me, "Simply not Cricket" harkens to the chappist in me. The Chappist Movement is a English movement that is currently growing in popularity. A general attempt to return to the civility of Victorian England. Also called the tweed movement, more and more young British folk are once again picking up three piece and decorum. And with that comes some old return of old form English.
In this case the actual term means "something (an action) taken that is not honest or moral," and was used in text of the word "->-bleeped-<-" to refer to me as not being an "honest representation," and thus simply not cricket and shouldn't be done. Again only in regards to referencing me with that word.
One thing about me is I often use a number of words where a few would suffice. I have an esoteric manner of writing and indeed of speaking. once you get used to the manner in which I string my words together, once my syntax and form are known to you, I get taken incorrectly a bit less.
Devlyn, also my apologies to you. I stand by everything I said, including the defense comment; but I want to apologize for my lack of clarity in my original post that led to the need to feel like you had to say something. Again this is a byproduct of the way that I write and I should have been more ling winded in my first reply thus eliminating the need for us to have ever derailed this topic.
Love you all,
Kami.
I'm of a mind this has run its course. Locked for the time being.