Susan's Place Transgender Resources

For those who didn't used to be passable and are now, did the way people treat you change once you started passing?

I know that I have started passing here and there because people are treating me differently. With folks who knew me before it is hard to say if their changed behavior is because the just accept me or if I pass in their mind's eye. The women I work with accepted me imediately but their behavior opened up in the last few weeks. That could just be the passage of time though. The men I work with took longer with the pronouns etc. until again a few weeks back when they seemed to stop slipping and started treating me as they do the other women on the crew. I experienced some casual workplace sexism. I know I have lost my male privilege, I don't get treated as a man anymore. Sometimes not like a woman either but that is just fine. Boobs helped a ton in this department as do all the other factors. I get fewer confused stares and missgenderings, but there are still some. Most of the times a clerk in a store who has seen my credit card will start to call me "sir" but they don't get it all the way out and seem uncomfortable saying it. It's the chivalry that I wasn't ready for. Likewise the creeps who drive slow just behind me when I am out walking somewhere. I didn't realize that stuff actually happened in broad daylight! Voice is definitely my dead giveaway. I'm working on it and getting better. I'm also planning on getting VF and having my AA shaved too. Just trying to find the money! My beard shadow is the clincher. I will be passing...my voice will slip a bit...the person will all of a sudden look quizzical...they then noticeably look me up and down...then...well then I learn what their decision about me was. Ain't life fun!

Quote from: Kellam on June 24, 2015, 11:18:23 AM
Ain't life fun!

It is kind of fun, isn't it, to watch the way people react differently to me when I'm passing. It's those confused stares that always clue me in. If I'm getting a lot of those, I'm probably not passing well.

For me, it's smiles from female strangers. If they're smiling at me, probably means I'm passing. They tend to scowl if I'm not.

When other women started smiling at me I was very happy. Pre transition I had to deal with a lot of flirtatious glances and ogling. In the first month of social transition and the first month of medical, so my first two months, they started to ignore me. That was such relief!

I am not sure how to vote, mainly because I am not sure how to gauge passing now or not passing before.  I am too critical of myself to say I pass because I read people's reaction to me way too heavily.  I will say this, though:

I went to pick up parts for my Bush Hog finish mower at the local farm implement supply company yesterday.  They had the spindle housing, sheave, and bolts that I needed, but not the woodruff key.  So, dressed in my CK dress straight from work, along with my wife, I am standing there asking the guy where to get the key and if I was getting one from a hardware store, how do I know if it is the prescribed size for the spindle set up I just got?  He proceeds to take the sheave off and start talking slower to me and pointing to where it goes and telling me to get one that fits in there.  Mind you, this is the 5th spindle housing I have replaced on my bush hog.  I am quite savvy with it, but they have always provided the woodruff key.  But the fact that he took on a condescending tone, got real detailed with his directions, and made me feel dumb makes me think that --Yeah, people treat me differently now that I pass...I guess. LOL  Mind you, I looked up the woodruff key specs today and the ANSI standard says it is a 3/6" X 3/4" X 1/16" #606 key.  That was all I wanted him to say. ;)

Pre-passing, the general response from most people in my life who I told I was transitioning was begrudging... doubts, and a LOT of people questioning me, saying things like "are you sure you know what you're doing?" and even some people who were very close to me who actually belittled me with comments like "frankly I think you'd make an ugly woman" and "I just don't see how this is going to work out" and "you know you'll never be rid of your receded hairline... you'll never be a real woman."

All of a sudden, around November of last year, everyone started apologizing to me, saying they were sorry for doubting me, and when I told them that I was still feeling unfeminine and ugly, their responses suddenly changed from "you'll never be a woman" to "how can you possibly think that you're not a woman?"

Seeing is believing.

(Side note: I'm not completely 100% passable, but I'm passable enough that nobody really cares.)

Quote from: Carrie Liz on June 25, 2015, 02:59:26 PM
Seeing is believing.

Unfortunately, Carrie, I think you're absolutely right.

Until I read your post, I think I didn't understand why passing was so important to me. I think it's because if I passed, if I truly looked female, people would have no choice but to accept me as a female.

Of course, it's the opposite of what I believe in. People deserve to be accepted as their identified gender regardless of passability. But the motivation is really hard to shake.

While I generally refuse to claim that I am even remotely passable, I do know that people are nicer to me and more apt to talk to me about just about anything and that's while I am working in a busy store dealing with the public(many regulars) all day long. Men tend to smile a lot at me, I get called every term of endearment for a woman that you can think of by people in general. Could be that I'm comfortable with myself while at work and that could be showing through or it could be something else, who knows. I'm relatively happy with how I am treated and it is nice to be well known and well respected by many and I've found out just how much since I came back to the store after almost a year away from the company.

Early in my transition, people tended to avoid me a little, probably because I was so obviously somewhere in the middle and I'm sure I made them uncomfortable.

I do get the occassional odd looks in public, rather than confused though they are usually seem stunned. I can only presume it's because I'm a gorgeous Amazon and they're amazed I'd be in their lowly presence! (My own hyper inflated ego sometimes likes to believe I was a former super model) ;D

As for being treated differently I can't say. I don't think people could see me as a woman before I transitioned but once I did they couldn't see me as a guy. On my third time out as Grace a female friend said to me she was so amazed at the difference and couldn't see the dude version of me any more.

I am a tall girl that generally passes at night.

The difference I noted is people tend to be more polite. In the crowd, I get almost no shoulder hits or pushes, which is a big difference to being out as a man. Being out as a woman sometimes feels like everyone is squeezing themselves to let me have more space. I like it. :)

There are also nice stares from guys gotten, as opposed to daylight.

Make up skills look like one thing to improve. I'm not even a novice there.

Yep, life is a lot less stressful

A less obvious thing I have noticed is that my space gets invaded almost all the time now compared to before including my previous guy mode days in public and and people tend to make a lot more touchy gestures during conversation. I have concluded that females are needing to defend their space more.

Out in public I've noticed that other females smile at me. And generally people are more friendly towards me. One interesting thing I'm not used to is nothing against guys but they don't mind cutting my off while I'm shopping or getting in front of me. Before as a male never had that problem but I'll live with it. Also getting used to getting comments in public now. Mostly kids saying that I'm a really tall girl which I don't mind. And the occasional cat call. 

Another thing I've recently started going over to a friends house. And he has two kids six  and five years old. They knew me pre transition and could never get enough of me. He didn't tell them about me and the past  couple times I've gone over as female they don't think I'm that exciting since I'm a girl!

Quote from: ainsley on June 25, 2015, 02:49:58 PM
I am not sure how to vote, mainly because I am not sure how to gauge passing now or not passing before.  I am too critical of myself to say I pass because I read people's reaction to me way too heavily.  I will say this, though:

I went to pick up parts for my Bush Hog finish mower at the local farm implement supply company yesterday.  They had the spindle housing, sheave, and bolts that I needed, but not the woodruff key.  So, dressed in my CK dress straight from work, along with my wife, I am standing there asking the guy where to get the key and if I was getting one from a hardware store, how do I know if it is the prescribed size for the spindle set up I just got?  He proceeds to take the sheave off and start talking slower to me and pointing to where it goes and telling me to get one that fits in there.  Mind you, this is the 5th spindle housing I have replaced on my bush hog.  I am quite savvy with it, but they have always provided the woodruff key.  But the fact that he took on a condescending tone, got real detailed with his directions, and made me feel dumb makes me think that --Yeah, people treat me differently now that I pass...I guess. LOL  Mind you, I looked up the woodruff key specs today and the ANSI standard says it is a 3/6" X 3/4" X 1/16" #606 key.  That was all I wanted him to say. ;)

Ainsley, I hear you on this one (sigh).  I used to be an automotive engineer and being talked down to in hardware stores and engineering supply places got old really fast.  The local hardware store in town is good though as they know me now as a mechanical tinkerer who has some real skills up her sleeve.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on June 25, 2015, 02:59:26 PM
Pre-passing, the general response from most people in my life who I told I was transitioning was begrudging... doubts, and a LOT of people questioning me, saying things like "are you sure you know what you're doing?" and even some people who were very close to me who actually belittled me with comments like "frankly I think you'd make an ugly woman" and "I just don't see how this is going to work out" and "you know you'll never be rid of your receded hairline... you'll never be a real woman."

All of a sudden, around November of last year, everyone started apologizing to me, saying they were sorry for doubting me, and when I told them that I was still feeling unfeminine and ugly, their responses suddenly changed from "you'll never be a woman" to "how can you possibly think that you're not a woman?"

Seeing is believing.

(Side note: I'm not completely 100% passable, but I'm passable enough that nobody really cares.)

That's somewhat comforting. I suppose the process isn't easy for anyone. Still superlame with all the discrimination though. -_-

If there are more people with this experience, i'd love to hear them.

Like were people rude before but suddenly not anymore?
Or people who seemingly abandoned you... came back?

Sorry if that comes of as shallow. No, I don't need their validation. I do want a social life though :P.

Quote from: Lady Smith on July 14, 2015, 02:37:10 PM
Ainsley, I hear you on this one (sigh).  I used to be an automotive engineer and being talked down to in hardware stores and engineering supply places got old really fast.  The local hardware store in town is good though as they know me now as a mechanical tinkerer who has some real skills up her sleeve.

Yes!  I am noticing this very much lately.  Even at work I have noticed the guys in IT speak to me (before they really get to know me) like I am a tech idiot.  I am far from a tech n00b (more than a decade in IT) and just take their condescension as a small form of gender validation, rather than an insult.  Similar to being interrupted by men when speaking....ugh.  When I told my speech therapist about the interruptions her eyes went real wide, she smiled and said "Welcome to it!". LOL

Women who are obviously hetero are still flirting with me so I guess I'm looking forward to that changing and seeing obviously gay women hitting on me. 

I'm married to a woman who was attracted to me as the man I never was and is attracted to me now as the woman I always was but am just recently growing into.

I fully expect to experience the full range of reactions as I transition more and more.  Hopefully I'll get to the finish line and look around to see everybody act indifferent towards me.  That's all I want from people: indifference.

i'm half way. i pass if it's only my voice or when i'm not outed, but i think people can tell i'm trans. i get a lot of dirty looks. people who don't react negatively often comment that i'm very cute - not in a "hot" way, but like a fluffy bunny way. being "cute" is part of me i guess, which i assume is what makes people shoot me dirty looks.

  last summer on holidays, a woman was staring at me for so long and so keenly that my mom had to ask her to stop because it was making our entire group uncomfortable. Another time in a shop, i asked for help and got sent to the chemist, where the woman put a lot of emphasis on "SHE" while glaring at me. she was literally going "this GIRL would like some help for HER dry skin." i was too afraid to speak up.

   i am out to a few friends, and they all agree that i look more masculine than feminine for sure. with one or two people, when i came out, they were more like "wow, no ->-bleeped-<-" than "wow, i had no idea".

  i'm in a weird situation. i'm stuck in the girl's uniform in school, i'm not out, but i don't look girly at all. A few times people have forgotten that I'm supposed to be a girl (lol) and it's great. guys in school are WAAAY nicer to me now, it's pretty crazy. the few girls who aren't more or less shunning me are super nice, and it's awesome.

Just changed my vote, there isn't a person, stranger or family, who treats me the same as before.

People who don't know I'm trans treat me differently than before. I expect that this is the case for most of us.

As for those who knew me before, it's hard to tell because many of them had to adjust gradually, so I think I'm less likely to notice. However, my ex now shakes hands with me when we part after socializing. It's a little odd, but I go with the flow.

I've never passed as female, even when I've tried.  However... random strangers are more prone to smile at me when I'm smiling, now that I dress femme.  Maybe I'm passing at 20 paces!  ;)  Ehhh... doubt it.  I walk like a very impatient man.

Even with a really short male haircut and all men's clothes and unshaved legs people can tell I'm a woman, and I usually just get funny stares once in awhile.

People that I don't know treat me way differently now - I get ignored, talked over, cut in front of, and treated like my IQ has dropped. They obviously see me and treat me as a female.

The ignoring thing is weird - it's like i'm totally invisible or something. People just don't pay any attention to me whatsoever in public anymore. I never get catcalled either. Maybe I come across as an older ugly woman or something  :laugh:

The people that knew me before would mostly be the people that I work with. I have experienced some misogyny and some things that tell me i'm not in the brogrammer crowd anymore from my male coworkers. My female coworkers treat me like one of their own, and my male supervisors use a kinder, gentler tone of voice with me. The weird thing is that i've caught a few of the guys in the office giving me "the look" that tells me that they were checking me out which is more than a little weird.

As my wife puts it no matter what I wear I look female...

What I've noticed at work is that the women I walk by used to look down or away when passing in the hallway.  Now they make eye contact and say hi and sometimes strike up a short conversation.

Most men I work with that know me have started to change, talking over me more and more as my hair length has continued to increase.
The men at work I don't know are very nice to me.  They let me go first or open doors for me.
None of that happened before...

Out shopping, I tend to get into conversations with women very easy all the time.  Never happened before.  And men usually let me go first, open doors or like Eva Marie I get the type of guys who treat all women as beneath them and I'm ignored and talked down too.

No matter how I'm treated I love it when I'm seen as me!  It's so much better both the good and the bad.

Everyone treats me well and I pass, and am stealth at work......prior to transition when I mentioned it, people were very hostile to the idea of me ever being a woman, they didn't understand I already was and I didn't look the part.

Sadly with the way society is I think appearances matter far more than substance ever could.

Quote from: Hikari on March 07, 2016, 10:40:12 PM
Everyone treats me well and I pass, and am stealth at work......prior to transition when I mentioned it, people were very hostile to the idea of me ever being a woman, they didn't understand I already was and I didn't look the part.

Sadly with the way society is I think appearances matter far more than substance ever could.

Do you still work at the same place you did before you transitioned?

Quote from: Eva Marie on March 07, 2016, 01:16:53 PM
People that I don't know treat me way differently now - I get ignored, talked over, cut in front of, and treated like my IQ has dropped. They obviously see me and treat me as a female.

This, so much. Men will treat me like I don't know anything or that they obviously need to help me with something even if they don't know what it is. Just, all of that kind of crap. And of course there's the flirting, the getting hit-on, and even getting the occasional discount on things just 'cause.. which is really weird.

From women, they'll either be relaxed with me to the point that they tell me their life story while we're in a check-out line or I get cold-shouldered, sometimes due to jealousy. I sometimes get compliments on my clothes or whatev, especially if I'm wearing heels.

Babies often look at me and smile. :) And I had one lil girl accidentally call me mommy... :embarrassed: I guess there was a resemblance.

My mom and I are closer and talk more. My dad is also maybe a bit friendlier, but otherwise he's always been distant. Interestingly enough, he has always treated me differently from my brothers, and one of my sisters confirmed that I basically get treated like they do. Consequently, we both have daddy issues.. ::) The rest of my family, well... not much change, though my brother-in-law is more of a jerk because of all this but once he saw I was doing well he mellowed. My nieces and I get on well and talk like any two ladies would. They've been very accepting. I think some of this stuff is due to growing up though.

And my friends that knew me before transitioning generally treat me the same, maybe slightly differently. However, I did notice that some of my guy friends, forever ago when I first told them I wanted to transition, started treating me differently. Like, opening doors for me. Very strange. 

I think the biggest difference is in how men treat me. Like night and day.

Quote from: alienbodybuilder on March 07, 2016, 10:48:25 PM
Do you still work at the same place you did before you transitioned?

No but, I talked to some people at the previous place of employment and they told me to apply and didn't at all recognize me despite the fact I really don't look that different and I worked with them for over a year. I think that would be somewhat odd though to be semi stealth and work with people I used to work with, but if the pay better than the current place that might just be a reality lol.

So this is kinda interesting.  I've finally found the "femme enough" point.  If I wear lipstick and put my hair up in a crown braid, people treat me differently.  Among other things, I'm not getting called sir or ma'am!  I'm vancouver-passing for gender neutral!

I don't know what I am passing as but being called Sir has become an extremely rare thing the past few months no matter what I am wearing or doing.  It's become so rare that it's gotten surprising when I hear it.  Anyway, whatever people are thinking about me I have noticed that they are much friendlier in general, smiling more and striking up friendly conversations.  That's happening with both men and women.   Maybe it's because I don't look morose all the time now.  ;D

woman smile at me a whole lot more and men seem to look at my chest a lot.

Quote from: Ashey on March 07, 2016, 11:32:39 PM
and even getting the occasional discount on things just 'cause.. which is really weird.

Oh yes - I completely forgot about that!

One day I went to the local car dealer to get some special transmission oil that my car uses - I had previously read on the internet that the cost was about $23/quart.

The parts counter guy was a middle aged guy that was obviously taken with me - he looked nervous in that goofy way that guys get around a female that they find attractive. He noticed and commented on my nails "looking nice" (acrylics - I had just had them filled and painted) so I made sure to leave my hands on the counter  >:-)

During our conversation I mentioned that I had read what the oil costs and he got a silly grin on his face and told me that he'd discount it for me - and he did!

Yes;

Before they would approach me easily and feel I wasn't friendly or warm enough.

Now they are more hesitant to approach but find me friendly and warm.

Win-win, I guess?

Even though I had thought I would never pass pre-T I did pass as soon as I came out and presented as male.
Because I was fortunate enough to pass from the start as long as I didn't open my mouth to speak too much, I don't know how it is to be a transperson who doesn't pass in society.

The only things I have gotten pre-T were people who got complete confused due to the voice. My voice was what didn't pass! They saw a man but heard a voice that wasn't deep, didn't fit what they saw and that made them uncomfortable because they didn't want to insult me by calling me the wrong gender, so one could see how their brains desperately tried to figure out whether I was a poor (cis) lad with a too high pitched voice or a (cis) chick unfortunate enough to look and act complete like a man. None of them guessed that I was a transguy though because most people aren't really aware of the existence of trans people in their everyday life where I live. It's not really a subject of interest here.

This is what changed when my voice finally passed together with me thanks to testosterone. Now I can speak and no one will question my maleness anymore ;)


There is a difference between being a man in society and being a woman in society though. This society caters around women much more, it is gynocentric in many aspects. People are less nice, accommodating and helpful towards men and pay women much more positive attention.
Especially the school system is mostly devoted to behaviours and talents mostly common in females nowadays and is going further down that road. Typical male behaviour is often frowned upon and discouraged.
Since I have never ever even for a second been a girl/woman, regardless of what people saw me as, I had all the same struggles with this the other male students had too, just with the extra bonus of people expecting from me to be good at all the things I completely sucked at which led to them constantly voicing their disappointment about me and with my lack of emotionality, bad social skills and disinterest in social stuff, caretaking and other feminine things.

That's one reason why I find it hilarious that some people try to tell me I had a "female socialisation" because I had not. Socialising a man as a woman isn't possible! They tried but failed, it didn't work because it can't work. It just caused frustration, irritation and aggression on both sides and made life harder especially for me. I have a male brain and that didn't change because they unsuccessfully tried to teach me female behaviour that was unnatural for me. I also struggled to even bond with females and usually had male friends anyway and socialised myself in a masculine way regardless of what the teachers or my parents tried.

Overall I have never been seen as a real girl/woman and I have never gotten all of those female privileges my female classmates have gotten for example. Those chicks regularly attacked me and when I defended myself the teachers and other students always decided that I was in the wrong because I was masculine, taller and physically stronger and not supposed to defend myself against those fine girls who hated me and didn't want me to get sorted into their group.
But at the same time society didn't see me as a man either because "ID says you're a chick" so I was actually just viewed as some sort of freak show before I came out.
Honestly, I didn't socially transition from female to male, I socially transitioned from freak to male in society.

Not sure how to respond.
I "kept" only a handful of friends whom I knew before transition. They treat me exactly the same, have never ever misgendered me, nor said anything remotely offensive.
I have way more friends now than before...they just treat me as Nina, never having knew the before Nina. No one even has been curious or asked questions. They just see me as Nina.
I often wonder why no one asks, but I figure people think they'll ask something wrong...or I won't want to talk about. Some days I forget I had surgery, or that I was this other person.

Yes. The biggest difference was how guys treated me. They are far more friendly to me and sweet. And naturally guys became more flirty. Some are total pigs. Of course there is more mansplaining and being talked down to too. It also seems like some guys just assume I'm almost too stupid to walk. My brother's friends are much more reserved and much more polite than before. The changes in how females treated me was much more subtle. Even before I transitioned I don't think most females even considered me a " real boy".

I have noticed that people pay much less attention to me as male. I can go where ever I want when ever I want and guys don't look me in the eyes when we pass. Looking in other guys eyes is hostile. I am almost invisible.  I'm free somehow. Women does not compare them selves to me. Women do that a lot.

When I was a poor excuse of a girl, people payed more attention to me. But I was often "misgendered". People were unsure if I was a girl or a guy.

Quote from: MeTonie on September 16, 2017, 01:35:33 PM
I have noticed that people pay much less attention to me as male. I can go where ever I want when ever I want and guys don't look me in the eyes when we pass. Looking in other guys eyes is hostile. I am almost invisible.  I'm free somehow. Women does not compare them selves to me. Women do that a lot.

When I was a poor excuse of a girl, people payed more attention to me. But I was often "misgendered". People were unsure if I was a girl or a guy.

Looking another guy in the eyes is hostile?? Guys are so weird and have some really strange rules. Lol

Quote from: Julia1996 on September 16, 2017, 01:44:37 PM
Looking another guy in the eyes is hostile?? Guys are so weird and have some really strange rules. Lol

Exactly

Once when I was a little I smiled to stranger ( guy ) while I was passing the street he looked at me with very hostile look and asked me what I want

I never smiled to anyone again That moment scared me as child

Somehow they act in "animal like behavior"
Don't look in the eyes is one of these act

I start hormones when I was in my teen
( self medication because no doctor here is willing to help ts person at all )
Now it's 8 years since I first started and my appearance changed too

But Because my country criminalize transition ,transgender and crossdressing

I never had the chance to live fully as woman which hurt me a lot
Because here all cis girls must cover their body with special clothes (vail)
And Because crossdressing is illegal
the police arrest trans girls who do that
And sometimes they post it in newspapers
because in our government eyes trans girl is (homo guy) and trans guy is ( lesbian )
No matter what you have done or change in your body

I notice the confusion in the people eyes everytime I walk to public places

People act in very negative way against me

I avoid going to public places because I'm scared

These things happens even before I take hormones but now increase even more

What I hate the most even tho im feminine and I have letter that say I'm transsexual with gender dysphoria
My whole country view me as feminine gay guy or famboy

They just see being gay and being trans the same thing

So for me even after years of hormones
And being feminine I'm forced to live in male mood

Im sure when I go to safe place and start to live as woman my quality of life will improve
And I will no longer forced to live as something I don't identify with

Then I can come back and talk about my experience

Yes. Women are much more friendly to me and will start a conversation with me when I'm out shopping. This didn't happen as a man. Men don't speak to each other. Women are more social with each other. I've had to work on my female voice and have gotten better at it to the point where I'm not as nervous about it. Men hold doors open for me and smile at me. I didn't realize how much cis men are always on the hunt until I got flirts. Uncomfortable but thrilling at the same time.

In the workplace, I haven't discussed being transgender and wear men's pants and shirts, sometimes gender ambiguous women's knit tops or sweaters. In that setting I do wear pierced earrings, a bracelet, a necklace under my shirt, and a more feminine hairstyle. They don't treat me any differently. Even though I'm married to a woman, they just think I'm gay, and I'm fine with that. Family? I never see them. I love being female as often as I can.

Ok, I replied a couple years ago to this, but now I am more in a position to offer a general perspective. 

I transitioned to female.  I don't say that I pass or not; I am just a woman now.  I am seen that way to the vast majority of people I encounter, if not all.  And, yes, I am treated differently than when I was presenting male--I am treated like a female all of the time.  In person, on the phone, via textual conversations, you name it.  My outward appearance, behavior, and voice drive every bit of that for new encounters. 
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