I have really realized in the last year or so if you do not have a picture of yourself that is either dressed up or in female clothes that you are looked upon as a joke and that you perhaps are a troll. I think I am just frustrated that I am not taken serious because I have a male picture posted and that its not me in female clothes and that its still the me that was born the way I have to deal with being.
I am starting to care less and less what people even within the transgender community have to say or what they think. I am now starting to realize why we have such a high percentage of suicides is because we do nothing to embrace our own no matter what. So what if I am still living full time as a man and don't really have the chances to dress up or show my feminine side, trust me I really wish that I could.
The only thing that I seem to get to do is wear panties every single day because that is a start or at least that is a start for me. So what if I still have a beard! I am not even close to start to transition so my beard says nothing about who I am inside as a person, its just cosmetic and that is all, it doesn't define who I am just like my penis doesn't define who I am either and the feelings that I have.
Perhaps I am just venting or I am disgusted at the ways that people treat each other because they are not in the same place as others. People think I am a joke and that is fine because I feel the same way about the people that have that view of me. I came here to get a better understanding of myself and who I really am and the tips and the advice are awesome and then there are opinions of others that are just rude and mean and then I realized perhaps they just feel bad about their lives that they have to act that way towards people because they feel depressed about who they are.
I suppressed my feelings about wanting to be a woman for years and years and just recently they have resurfaced and its harder to bury them and deny who I am. It is hard to shave the beard off when I am still very much a guy and then have people say that I can't be a woman and still have a beard. I mean could I say that they will never be a woman unless they get rid of there male genitalia? No that would be mean and make no sense.
I have decided that if I am going to be bashed or picked apart because of what I have to say or my opinion then I am going to start dealing with that head on and voicing what I have to say. You should really create a venting room and if you do have one and I have not seen it please do post this there. I just am tired of all the big headed folks that think they are better than others because they are not in the same part emotionally as others.
Sandy I also know firsthand about discrimination, I showed up to a tri ESS meeting once with a beard and mustache, for we had car trouble and I didn't have time to shave, got a lecture and told if this happens again I would be barred from future meetings. The other form is if your not on hrt your not transgender, or worse if you still like your penis your not trans. Weird what we face in our own community.
Shameful! No matter how you look, how you dress, or even whether you're yet aware or certain, you are still trans, with many of the same issues and concerns as any of us. You deserve respect and support.
Trolls make themselves known very quickly. A picture is unnecessary!
We have had the "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" and the "Young vs older transitioners" catty discussions in the past here. Nothing new.
Joelene
Oh my, yes. Just because we want to be accepted for ourselves, doesn't make us saints when it comes to respecting others. I accidentally misgendered a friend of mine a week ago... hell, my wife's better about misgendering me than I am. This is a serious complaint I've heard about the drag community -- I've heard several reports of queens picking on transwomen for not being femme enough.
You're doing what you can to be you. That's the important thing. You should only transition when and as much as fits you. The rest of the world be damned.
I have a friend who hangs out with the snobbiest, most fashion-obsessed women I've ever met. They're horrid. They deemed my wife a "man" because she doesn't have giant breasts and doesn't wear ridiculous pushup bras. I'm less surprised to hear that from dumb jocks... but it turns out that women can be awful misogynists as well.
Oppression is pervasive. The most racist things I've heard have been from the mouths of black people, about black people. Women promote misogyny, and some of the most hateful pro-lifers are women. It comes as no surprise that transpeople can be transphobic.
I don't care for a*holes. Even the transgender ones.
Quote from: Joelene9 on September 30, 2015, 04:58:46 PM
We have had the "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" and the "Young vs older transitioners" catty discussions in the past here. Nothing new.
If anything, it's old. I think those "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" threads were even more common in the old days. I remember seeing a lot of them.
Quote from: Jill F on September 30, 2015, 06:11:14 PM
I don't care for a*holes. Even the transgender ones.
Yes the world is full of narcissists and sociopaths, why should we be any different.
Take care,
Paige :)
Quote from: Paige on September 30, 2015, 07:27:11 PM
Yes the world is full of narcissists and sociopaths, why should we be any different.
Take care,
Paige :)
Don't forget the douchenozzles, the ->-bleeped-<-s and the twatwaffles.
At first I thought that I was being out of line and people would take me as being rude or something but can tell that its quite normal for people to act this way within the trans community. I honestly myself don't feel like I am better or worse than anyone. I am just struggling just like everyone else is and I am just not going to let people treat me the way that they feel they can get away treating me any longer. We are all struggling with the same issues and none of us are better than each other, we are trying to live life in a world that really don't want to accepts us.
It's interesting, this was something I noticed in the gay community prior to coming out as trans. It seemed like the closer we got to acceptance in mainstream society, there were increases in drama and BS within the community - most often directed at people that others felt were giving the community a bad name/poor image. People want so badly to fit in, conform, and be seen as normal that they judge, alienate, and cast out anyone that doesn't fit the mold they've come up with for what we should be.
There is a quote from my favorite book that sums up what I think about it: "When we don't know who to hate, we hate ourselves." I am sorry you are having this experience, and I hope it doesn't dissuade you from continuing to participate and contribute in the community.
Sandy, thank you for posting this. It's an ugly underbelly of the trans community that doesn't get aired a lot.
You are (obviously) as much a woman as any other and your presentation has no bearing on that. Unfortunately, to a lot of people, seeing is believing, even some trans folks. I agree with others who see this as shameful.
Quote from: Sandy74 on September 30, 2015, 04:01:16 PM
You should really create a venting room and if you do have one and I have not seen it please do post this there.
We do have a venting room. The name of the board is ARGHHH! and it's off the General Discussions area: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,34.0.html
You have to remember a lot of people are gong through hard things, lot of people have depression or are suicidal. Some people have mental issues as well as being trans. Most people that post are at a specific stage in transition.
Some people will judge on the type of hormones you take, some for who did your surgeries. You will be judged on whether you look better or worse than someone.
Overall though I think it's a good community and people hearts are in the right places and their are some incredibly helpful and caring people here, and a wide variety of people to see different views from.
I'll never post a real pic as avatar but I do find yours refreshing.
Quote from: Serenation on September 30, 2015, 08:07:41 PM
Overall though I think it's a good community and people hearts are in the right places and their are some incredibly helpful and caring people here, and a wide variety of people to see different views from.
Yes overall I believe most here are very kind and thoughtful. I've had the odd comment that I thought was a little mean spirited but usually those people aren't around long. I often wonder if some of them are just trolls.
Paige :)
Sandy, unfortunately I have to agree with you. It just goes to show that we're all human.
There's some people here though that really make a stand for tolerance. I'm sure there's many more, but suzifrommd, Cindy, and Susan all immediately spring to mind.
As for those people in the world who discriminate, well I do too, and I have no time for them.
Sadly for some it's self imposed. You know when your mind tells your spirit that it's wrong.
QuoteI am starting to care less and less what people even within the transgender community have to say or what they think
This is healthy. Keep following this and you'll be fine.
I don't judge people based on weather they're closeted, out and proud, post-op, non-op, stealth, whatever. I judge people based on their ability to think critically and rationally. That is all that matters.
Quote from: Isabelle on October 01, 2015, 02:06:32 AM
I don't judge people based on weather they're closeted, out and proud, post-op, non-op, stealth, whatever. I judge people based on their ability to think critically and rationally. That is all that matters.
Hi Isabelle, if you're saying what I think you are I don't really agree with you. I tend to do this myself, and I view it as a character flaw I'm working on. Its easy to think this way as I'm particularly good at it, and I like that, but if people don't its necessarily a negative thing (frustrating sometimes though). What I find negative is people who want to harm or control others. I admire people who help others, and sometimes I wish I was more like that. I can't see it happening though. I'll settle for not harming others.
Its an interesting point. I do discriminate, but my discrimination's good.
I don't know what you think I'm saying, and I don't mind if you don't agree :)
Quote from: Isabelle on October 01, 2015, 02:47:38 AM
I don't know what you think I'm saying, and I don't mind if you don't agree :)
I think we're in agreement then.
I should point out that even if I decide someone seems about as rational as a fish on a bicycle, I'd never be rude. I just file their advice and opinions in a different way. I have friends that I consider to be as mad as hatters, it doesn't mean I don't like them :) all the best people are mad.
Quote from: Isabelle on October 01, 2015, 03:09:13 AM
I should point out that even if I decide someone seems about as rational as a fish on a bicycle, I'd never be rude. I just file their advice and opinions in a different way. I have friends that I consider to be as mad as hatters, it doesn't mean I don't like them :) all the best people are mad.
We're very similar personalities.
Quote from: Sandy74 on September 30, 2015, 04:01:16 PM
I have really realized in the last year or so if you do not have a picture of yourself that is either dressed up or in female clothes that you are looked upon as a joke and that you perhaps are a troll.
That is me in trouble then. I never post my photo.
Quote from: Sandy74 on September 30, 2015, 04:01:16 PMI am starting to care less and less what people even within the transgender community have to say or what they think. I am now starting to realize why we have such a high percentage of suicides
There are a lot of damaged people in this community. For many of us, growing up trans is traumatic in many different ways and a lot of carry that baggage with us. Depression is common - far more common than the general population and depression can lead so easily to dark thoughts.
Quote from: Sandy74 on September 30, 2015, 04:01:16 PM...we do nothing to embrace our own no matter what.
I think the reason for this is because we tend to travel alone on this journey. We are not very common and in some places the next trans person might be miles away and you not even spot them. Even where I live, in major city with millions of people around me I know about 10 trans people.
I could join in with "The trans scene" because there is one and a good sized one too less than 10 miles away and I know the people who organise it and I used to go, but I no longer do because I do not want to be part of "The Scene". I just want to be ordinary. Tonight I am going dancing with some cis-women because outside of "The Scene" who else can I go with? There are no other trans women around here that I know. The nearest I know of is about 30 miles away.
Quote from: Sandy74 on September 30, 2015, 04:01:16 PM
I have really realized in the last year or so if you do not have a picture of yourself that is either dressed up or in female clothes that you are looked upon as a joke and that you perhaps are a troll. I think I am just frustrated that I am not taken serious because I have a male picture posted and that its not me in female clothes and that its still the me that was born the way I have to deal with being.
Who said you have to have a picture of yourself to be taken seriously?
Sandy, I haven't been here long enough to have experienced the discrimination you describe, but I am glad you have raised the issue. If it is happening, it needs to be talked about.
I am in much the same situation as you. Though I identify as female, I am presenting as male, including the beard. (Hence the cute kitty pic as my avatar instead of a photo.) It is just not possible for me to present as female right now.
I am thankful that I haven't received any static about my decisions so far on this forum. Everyone who has responded to my questions and rants has been supportive. This stuff is hard enough to deal with without having our friends and allies give us a hard time about it.
Regarding the beard, I had to do some serious introspection once I identified as trans-female to figure out why I keep it. Thinking back to when I first grew it, it was a bit of a rebellion against the "normal" male. "Normal" men shave. Not wanting to identify that way (though I didn't understand why at the time), I decided not to. It's an odd logic, but logical nonetheless. Obviously, if I eventually transition, it will be the first thing to go.
Sandy,
I'm am personally glad you are here their are a lot of good hearted souls here who are seeking their truth. Sometime they mistakenly think that is yours. If something is not for you then read on someone who understands may be on the next post. Strangely I have found answers to things that puzzle me all over the place, I am mtf but I have found very good advice on the ftm and other forums. I'm taking my avatar pic to my ffs doctor when I get there and telling him that's what I want (he's going to laugh and probably so will I). I look in my mirror and in my light Hazel eyes I see Samantha looking back at me she always has.
We acknowledge you because of who you are, we are here for you Sandy.
Hugs :)
I was on HRT for five years and had some FFS before I started presenting femininely, and I went to support group meetings dressed in guy clothes the whole time; some people didn't take me seriously, but most did. Do what you need to do, and at your own pace, sister. :)
Quote from: kittenpower on October 02, 2015, 04:57:08 PM
I was on HRT for five years and had some FFS before I started presenting femininely, and I went to support group meetings dressed in guy clothes the whole time; some people didn't take me seriously, but most did. Do what you need to do, and at your own pace, sister. :)
Seriously? Transitioned or not, it doesn't make one any more or less transgender. I am no more transgender now than I was when I was 4 or 40.
TTTs need a fat reality check.
:police:
Okay folks anytime you sugget a group or person is less legitimate is against TOS. Lets be understanding that some are perfectly comfortable posting a picture as they are now. Lets please keep the TOS in mind. Topic unlocked. Thanks
Mariah
Quote9. If you disapprove of people who are Transgender, Gay, Lesbian, or Bisexual; or activities which cross gender boundaries; take your arguments to a more appropriate website.
10. Bashing or flaming of an individual or group is not acceptable behavior on this website and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason. This includes but is not limited to:
- Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term. The same restriction applies to advocating the removal of the T from GLBT.
- Suggesting or claiming that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more or less legitimate, deserving, or real than any others
- Posting any messages that engages in personal attacks and/or is actively or passively aggressive no matter the provocation.
While I understand that everyone has their own trials and tribulations as well as baggage they carry with them indefinitely, the desire to stratify our community is poisonous and insidious and it doesn't belong here on Susan's. No one is more real or authentic or better than. If you ever run into discrimination here, pm a mod. I don't think I can even try to be understanding when it comes to making others feel less welcome here. This forum is and needs to remain a safe place, as without it I wouldn't be here today.
Hugs,
- Katie
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thank you Katie.
I cannot accept intolerance.
I cannot accept a concept that any human can be 'better' than another.
I certainly will never accept that any gender diverse person is in any way superior to another. We are all wonderful and we should be in glory of our diversity.
What a community - so many wonderful people - so much to celebrate.
Having been part of the out LGBTQ community all my adult life internal discrimination within our communities is not new to me. Progressives have called it the "circular firing squad."
How we socialize, learn and grow does contain elements of what we might consider "judgment" and clarifying our values is not done in a vacuum. If I want to become a better person that may reflect a judgment that there are more desirable characteristics I want to develop. We do compare ourselves to others and often have aspirations relative to some sort of scale that may be seen as discriminatory. Humans are expert at discrimination and can find differences between people at a glance. I too could be called out as I discriminate every day and can too quickly chose people I will readily associate with and those I may avoid. Is that good, bad or ? I sure have been fooled by appearances though. Sometimes a pretty smile hides fangs eh?
Since we do discriminate, sometimes for self preservation or just to avoid the A holes of any type, perhaps we can become more aware of of our own biases. Building more empathy and compassion in to our thinking is so very needed.
I will never forget my first trans support group meeting. I looked around at women who looked like cis women. I cried when i said "i know what a look like (a male appearing person with a beard and mens clothing) but that is not who i am."
Yes, we are more than this bodily shell and anatomy is still not destiny.
I guess I just posted this because I sometimes get frustrated that I am no further along in wanting to be a woman than when I first came here and the only thing I do is wear panties under my male clothes every day or as much as I can and I am realizing that they are more comfortable than anything.
I recently shaved my beard and yet I will most likely grow it back for the winter because its nice to have when I am skiing every day. I would love to live alone this winter so I could dress up under my male clothes but I cannot do that at the moment and part of me just wants to say hell with it and keep a drawer full of panties and wear them when I want to wear them and hell with what my roommate ends up saying and if he bashes me for it then so be it.
I guess I just get frustrated that I am still very much a man when I very much want to be a woman and I feel like I am not taken seriously because I am that way, I don't post pictures of me in a pretty dress or I don't have any outfits that I really like or look even good in and I feel like people may not approach me because I am that way and I just get frustrated with that or it all can be in my head and nobody has that outlook on me anyway.
I used to not be very sensitive to much but perhaps dealing with my femme side I am becoming more sensitive even though I haven't taken any hormones. The other day I got a nasty message from someone and the admin know about it and perhaps that sparked my anger and hostility that people can just be cold within the community that you are trying to get help in.
I would never bash the transgender community in any sort of way, I love being here and I love the other forums that I have visited as well, I feel so relaxed here and comfortable. I am so close to just telling my dad and my stepmom that I am transgender even though I know that I could be years away from even dressing full time or even close to living my life that way.
I have realized that I could take hormones now and just roll with the punches once I see a therapist and no that I don't have to dress to have the feminine qualities that I want and I don't think anyone has the right to say yes or no against that because we all live with this differently and to say that someone is wrong because they are bucking the system and doing it there way is just pathetic in my mind.
Perhaps if I do see a gender therapist and I get to the point of being able to take hormones I will just keep dressing as a man and when I am ready and I feel like it inside then I will let the woman out and act and be more femme but on the outside I will do it when I feel I am ready.
Perhaps this is just me building up my confidence and perhaps I needed that nasty letter to light a fire underneath me and get me going, perhaps I should thank that person rather than hate that person and ignore that person.
Thanks for the responses and There have been more than I could ever hope for, I just thought it would be ignored and buried at the bottom. Thanks for being honest and truthful about how you feel.
My advice to you is this, consider the fact that pretty much every person that transitioned, was pretty similar to the way you are now. Lots of fear and doubt. What's my job going think, what's my partner going to do, what are my friends going to say, will I pass, what if I never pass etc etc, there's hundreds of questions like this. The only difference between you, and someone who feels their trnasistion is "finished" or "dealt with" or however you want to put is, at some point in time, they decided to actually take real steps toward taking responsibility for their own happiness. Life is very short, full of pain, sickness and death. Just take steps. Ask your GP if you can start hrt. You can go on it for 6 months and the only real change will be much nicer skin but, you might find it helps you "break the ice" a bit. It's not a massive irreversible commitment, you can just take it for a spin and see if you like it. Don't worry about what other people think or say, for two reasons
1, what others think isn't any of your business and,
2, why should you care about anyone else's thoughts?
Just worry about your thoughts, and try to make yourself happy. One day, soon if you're unlucky, time will run out. How much are you willing to throw away before let yourself be happy?
Oh Sandy!
I agree with Isabelle, it is your life, your body, your wants.
Life can change very quickly, it took 5 seconds for my wife to go from a healthy active woman with a great job, friends career everything - to being totally paralysed.
We have to live for every second, embrace it and wring the best we can out of it.
It doesn't matter how you present! If you are happy going on HRT and presenting as a non-feminine woman - well do it! If you want to do FFS, VFS, GRS, XYX, well do it!
If you want to go out in a mini and stilletos, do it!
I will support you as will 99% of transgender people. Our journeys are all unique, there is no right way and no wrong way, there is just your way.
And I would walk hand in hand with you no matter what you choose. And I would be proud to do so!
Quote from: Isabelle on October 05, 2015, 01:24:11 AM
1, what others think isn't any of your business and,
2, why should you care about anyone else's thoughts?
Just worry about your thoughts, and try to make yourself happy. One day, soon if you're unlucky, time will run out. How much are you willing to throw away before let yourself be happy?
Hi Isabelle,
Your second point is really the hard one for me. I've had many discussions with my therapist about this and still don't know why I care so much about what other people think. Perhaps because you get it drilled into you as a kid? Don't embarrass the family. I can really understand people wondering how this will affect their spouse, kids, parents and friends. You only have one life to live but then so do they and there's more of them then you.
On the other hand, this could be a good life lesson for all those people and really what harm are you actually causing? Maybe it's just the spouse that really is affected, but then people have marital difficulties or get divorced for all sorts of reasons. It's not really that different.
Sorry, as always I'm very confused about this,
Paige :)
Dear Paige,
Firstly may I say I love your posts. They are thoughtful and heartfelt.
I'll try and answer you question in an odd, and sad way.
I'm basically an oncologist., my clients have lymphoma or leaukemia. Our success rate in cure and in prolonging life has been dramatic.
Why mention that?
Invariably the loved ones of my clients would sell their souls for their relative to live and be healthy. It is often a defining moment in a relationship. Realising how much a person means to them, and what that loss may be.
There is a realisation that existence of thir child, their partner, their relative transcends the family problems, the spousal argument, the family conflicts mean nothing.
Is this any different to turning to your loved one and saying you are TG and have to be you. No they have no recourse to your past, and cannot imagine our life pain. They need somehow to accept that if they love you, well they love you.
Are we responsible for the pain we put on our family or friends?
See above for my cancer clients, they are not responsible for the agony they cause.
Yes, many live with it, believe it or not. "I'd be better of dead than see my family suffer through my illness" is not uncommon.
In many aspects of life humans crucify themselves for the feelings of others. I don't think that is a useful way of living.
We are better off accepting ourselves, each indidual as a unique glory.
Quote from: Paige on October 05, 2015, 07:21:08 AM
Hi Isabelle,
Your second point is really the hard one for me. I've had many discussions with my therapist about this and still don't know why I care so much about what other people think. Perhaps because you get it drilled into you as a kid? Don't embarrass the family. I can really understand people wondering how this will affect their spouse, kids, parents and friends. You only have one life to live but then so do they and there's more of them then you.
On the other hand, this could be a good life lesson for all those people and really what harm are you actually causing? Maybe it's just the spouse that really is affected, but then people have marital difficulties or get divorced for all sorts of reasons. It's not really that different.
Sorry, as always I'm very confused about this,
Paige :)
In my experience Paige - both as a trainee clinician and as somebody who has lived a bit, people will use all sorts of psychological tactics to make you live the way THEY want you to live. At the end of the day what you have to realise is that its all bull crap - as long you are not actively setting out to harm, then it is you that will answer for the way you lived and not them! So you might as well live authentically.
What you can't predict is how someone else will react, which is why worrying about "not offending so and so" is a fools game. There have been countless stories on here of people who didnt tell some member of their family because they were convinced that they would not understand, only find out years later when the secret came out that that person became their biggest allie and only really wanted them to be happy!
Worse one or two of them have then also been upset precisely that they weren't told earlier! So you can't win in that game of second guessing and the best thing is to simply be honest with good heart.
Add to that the fact that if you are not true to yourself that warps you as a person. You wont notice it, but others may. You will be in pain, and people in pain are often less generous, less forgiving, more judegemental and generally not as nice to be around, because they are feeling bad inside. So in attempting to repress yourself there's a very good chance that far from minimising the harm, you are actually making it worse, because you are hurting yourself and probably also being less able to be warm and genuine towards others.
So for all those reasons you should allow yourself to feel good about being honest and true to your own inner self. As shakespere wisely put it in Hamlet :-
"This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man."
Quote from: Cindy on October 05, 2015, 07:57:30 AM
Dear Paige,
Firstly may I say I love your posts. They are thoughtful and heartfelt.
I'll try and answer you question in an odd, and sad way.
I'm basically an oncologist., my clients have lymphoma or leaukemia. Our success rate in cure and in prolonging life has been dramatic.
Why mention that?
Invariably the loved ones of my clients would sell their souls for their relative to live and be healthy. It is often a defining moment in a relationship. Realising how much a person means to them, and what that loss may be.
There is a realisation that existence of thir child, their partner, their relative transcends the family problems, the spousal argument, the family conflicts mean nothing.
Is this any different to turning to your loved one and saying you are TG and have to be you. No they have no recourse to your past, and cannot imagine our life pain. They need somehow to accept that if they love you, well they love you.
Are we responsible for the pain we put on our family or friends?
See above for my cancer clients, they are not responsible for the agony they cause.
Yes, many live with it, believe it or not. "I'd be better of dead than see my family suffer through my illness" is not uncommon.
In many aspects of life humans crucify themselves for the feelings of others. I don't think that is a useful way of living.
We are better off accepting ourselves, each indidual as a unique glory.
Hi Cindy,
Thanks so much for your comment. You're so right that this isn't a useful way to live a life, lots of regret, feeling shame and your mind constantly fixated on your gender.
You always have a way of making me feel better.
Take care,
Paige :)
Quote from: Rejennyrated on October 05, 2015, 08:05:09 AM
In my experience Paige - both as a trainee clinician and as somebody who has lived a bit, people will use all sorts of psychological tactics to make you live the way THEY want you to live. At the end of the day what you have to realise is that its all bull crap - as long you are not actively setting out to harm, then it is you that will answer for the way you lived and not them! So you might as well live authentically.
Hi Jenny,
You hit the nail on the head with that one. My wife is very good at manipulating me. She has basically known since just after we got together 28 years ago that I was transgender. Early on I would tell her that I thought I could get over it, but it never happened and now I know this is impossible. We discuss the issue every once and a while but she really doesn't like talking about it. When she feels things aren't going her way, she's gets very distant. That's her signal to me to back off contemplating transitioning. You know she has a right to not to want me to transition but using tactics like this almost makes me want to do it more. But it has worked in the past so she continues to use this technique.
I have tried to get her to go to therapy, couples or by herself. She's not interested. She thinks this will just help me on my way.
Quote
What you can't predict is how someone else will react, which is why worrying about "not offending so and so" is a fools game. There have been countless stories on here of people who didnt tell some member of their family because they were convinced that they would not understand, only find out years later when the secret came out that that person became their biggest allie and only really wanted them to be happy!
Worse one or two of them have then also been upset precisely that they weren't told earlier! So you can't win in that game of second guessing and the best thing is to simply be honest with good heart.
Add to that the fact that if you are not true to yourself that warps you as a person. You wont notice it, but others may. You will be in pain, and people in pain are often less generous, less forgiving, more judegemental and generally not as nice to be around, because they are feeling bad inside. So in attempting to repress yourself there's a very good chance that far from minimising the harm, you are actually making it worse, because you are hurting yourself and probably also being less able to be warm and genuine towards others.
So for all those reasons you should allow yourself to feel good about being honest and true to your own inner self. As shakespere wisely put it in Hamlet :-
"This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man."
I've always wonder how hiding who I am has changed my personality over the years. I've been very guarded about being transgender and my femininity, always trying not to give away my cover. I do have some deep resentment of life even though I've had a pretty good go of it.
Sorry Sandy I think I've taken the thread off track.
Paige :)
I wasn't going to post here but I changed my mind.
In answer to the topic title...
Yes, and I have seen it first hand. I had a friend that I met in the virtual world of Second Life. We chatted there and also on Skype. She got her GRS earlier in the year and decided to cut all ties with me along with many others too. I have since found out from a mutual friend, why. She is a real person and wants to keep things separate. Although not said directly I felt it was implied that I was fake as were the others she parted company with. She is now a complete woman and we are not.
Now it makes my blood boil with what I feel is "I am more TG than you attitude" There are many reasons why people can't go full time, transition or have GRS. Social pressures, health issues and most of the time a lack of money for surgery. That doesn't make them any less TG than someone else who is blessed with a short and light frame, and insurance or cash to pay for surgery. It is like we are all wrong!
Quote from: Shads on October 06, 2015, 11:33:59 AM
I wasn't going to post here but I changed my mind.
In answer to the topic title...
Yes, and I have seen it first hand. I had a friend that I met in the virtual world of Second Life. We chatted there and also on Skype. She got her GRS earlier in the year and decided to cut all ties with me along with many others too. I have since found out from a mutual friend, why. She is a real person and wants to keep things separate. Although not said directly I felt it was implied that I was fake as were the others she parted company with. She is now a complete woman and we are not.
Now it makes my blood boil with what I feel is "I am more TG than you attitude" There are many reasons why people can't go full time, transition or have GRS. Social pressures, health issues and most of the time a lack of money for surgery. That doesn't make them any less TG than someone else who is blessed with a short and light frame, and insurance or cash to pay for surgery. It is like we are all wrong!
Hi Shads,
Stories like this shouldn't surprise us but I guess it demonstrates trans people can be just as nasty as anyone else.
Growing up how many of us saw people that would dump a friend in a second if they thought they could hang out with a more popular crowd? How many people have lost a partner when a more attractive person got involved with them? How many people stop talking with old friends when they moved up the economic ladder?
Unfortunately, kindness and loyalty isn't always what motivates people. I think you could chalk this up to some people are jerks. Or maybe she has a huge insecurity about being transgender and this is her way of dealing with it? Not everyone can stand being different in a society that worships sameness.
Hugs,
Paige :)
Quote from: Shads on October 06, 2015, 11:33:59 AM
I had a friend that I met in the virtual world of Second Life. We chatted there and also on Skype. She got her GRS earlier in the year and decided to cut all ties with me along with many others too. I have since found out from a mutual friend, why. She is a real person and wants to keep things separate.
Well, I have done the same thing. I keep my trans life and my everyday life separate, but not because I am ashamed of being trans. I do it because my everyday life and my trans life are so different that they have virtually nothing in common. My friends and family know I am trans (how could they not) but they are uninterested in details of my transition, particularly GRS. I view this as no different from other operations like cataracts or heart surgery - few people want the full gory details of those either.
Does this make me evil? Does it make me "->-bleeped-<-r-than-thou"?
My trans friends (well, some of them) have met my family yet the two lives are growing increasingly separate because I have less question that need answering and ordinary life is filling up the spaces. I try and support trans folk, that is why I am here, but my support is diminishing. I need to move on, I am increasingly past all the trans stuff and I have "paid forward" well and truly over the past five years.
It is hard to know what is in another's head
To be honest, I'm not a big fan of having real life photos as avatars to begin with. I don't even like real life picture threads. It's just dangerous, you know? There's too many hate groups out there.
I don't really like seeing them anyways because I'm pretty vain and I instantly judge people based on looks whether I want to or not. I can't really do anything about that though. I guess I could probably turn them off in the look & layout settings. I might at some point.
Quote from: cheryl reeves on September 30, 2015, 04:33:42 PMThe other form is if your not on hrt your not transgender, or worse if you still like your penis your not trans. Weird what we face in our own community.
I haven't been here for all that long but I've definitely seen this on here. I've thought to myself on multiple occasions how odd it is for a community seeking acceptance for themselves outside of the stereotypical social norms that so many would be so unaccepting of people that aren't following the stereotypical transgender norms.
Quote from: Shads on October 06, 2015, 11:33:59 AMYes, and I have seen it first hand. I had a friend that I met in the virtual world of Second Life. We chatted there and also on Skype. She got her GRS earlier in the year and decided to cut all ties with me along with many others too. I have since found out from a mutual friend, why. She is a real person and wants to keep things separate. Although not said directly I felt it was implied that I was fake as were the others she parted company with. She is now a complete woman and we are not.
Now it makes my blood boil with what I feel is "I am more TG than you attitude" There are many reasons why people can't go full time, transition or have GRS. Social pressures, health issues and most of the time a lack of money for surgery. That doesn't make them any less TG than someone else who is blessed with a short and light frame, and insurance or cash to pay for surgery. It is like we are all wrong!
I don't want to try to defend this girl because I don't know the full story but I'll just play the devil's advocate here and give you my perspective on this...
When she was transitioning she probably had a transgender persona and felt like she needed support and to talk about it. But afterwords, after GCS... I know at least for me, I'd think that after I have that done that I would be female and I wouldn't want to look back on those dark times when I wasn't physically, constantly being reminded of it, and I wouldn't want to be associated with that anymore. I think I would probably also distance myself from anyone that knew. I would probably even go so far as to cut ties with everyone I know, move, and start a new life somewhere else.
Not everyone feels that way... a lot of people are very comfortable with a transgender identity. I'm not, personally, so I can totally understand wanting to get away from all of it and just be a normal girl where nobody knows any different once the transition is over.
So you know, maybe it wasn't about you. Maybe she didn't think she was better than you... just... she didn't want to think of herself, or other people to think of her, as transgender anymore. I think maybe she was just wanting to move on with her life as the new her.
Locked for review
Unlocked.
Posts regarding autogynophilia will not be tolerated and action will be taken on those who post them.
If I opened a can of worms with my post on my experience, I truly apologize. There is more to this than meets the eye but I won't make it worse by adding anything more.
Even though I'm an advocate for femininity , I do give you brownie points for that remark cause I think you are completely right !
I hate it that when I want to date a nice guy ( via the internet ) and I tell him I'm transsexual he assumes that I already have big , fake silicone breasts and some other implants . People think too often that the amount of transsexuality is defined by the amount of surgeries or treatments you have undergone . I am so tired of that !
Because : you can operate someone with a male brain like for example Brad Pitt into a beautiful woman ( on the outside ) it will still be a male due to that masculin brain .
But you can take an alpha woman like Angelina Jolie her brain and put it in the body of an alpha male like for example George Clooney and still : Angelina will remain a woman due to her female brain . Being transgender isn't about the amount of hormones or surgeries you have or haven't had but about how truly feminin you are inside . Society should start realizing that !
What also naggs at me is that pre and non-op women are seen as lesser women by post-op wome n. While those post op women who discriminate ( not all are this way ! ) tend to forget where they stood themselves at one point in life .
I will be a post op too in a couple of years but I will never look at pre and non - op women as lesser women than myself . Because that surgery is not what will make me a woman . It is just a small correction . I already am a woman for my entire life . I think that transpeople who feel themselves more woman because they already have undergone some treatments and another transwoman did not are insecure people and base their transsexuality on the amount of treatments they underwent rather than on their soul . Such people may have the financial possibilities but end up being very unhappy very often .
See yourself as the woman you are inside , not outside . This counts for pre , post and non - op transwomen !
Mod edit: No bashing other groups under the trans umbrella. Please review the Terms of Service for this forum.
Quote from: Sandy74 on September 30, 2015, 04:01:16 PM
I have really realized in the last year or so if you do not have a picture of yourself that is either dressed up or in female clothes that you are looked upon as a joke and that you perhaps are a troll. I think I am just frustrated that I am not taken serious because I have a male picture posted and that its not me in female clothes and that its still the me that was born the way I have to deal with being.
I am starting to care less and less what people even within the transgender community have to say or what they think. I am now starting to realize why we have such a high percentage of suicides is because we do nothing to embrace our own no matter what. So what if I am still living full time as a man and don't really have the chances to dress up or show my feminine side, trust me I really wish that I could.
I suppressed my feelings about wanting to be a woman for years and years and just recently they have resurfaced and its harder to bury them and deny who I am. It is hard to shave the beard off when I am still very much a guy and then have people say that I can't be a woman and still have a beard. I mean could I say that they will never be a woman unless they get rid of there male genitalia? No that would be mean and make no sense.
I have decided that if I am going to be bashed or picked apart because of what I have to say or my opinion then I am going to start dealing with that head on and voicing what I have to say. You should really create a venting room and if you do have one and I have not seen it please do post this there. I just am tired of all the big headed folks that think they are better than others because they are not in the same part emotionally as others.
I've posted my pictures from the very start of my transition for no other reason than I like to see my progression , like posting my picture on a billboard on a California freeway for my own perception of how I'm doing. Everyone has their own unique way of dealing with their transition. I've just chosen to post my picture purely for my own learning curve. I've lived 63 years as a man and was able to finally do it so I'm taking full advantage of expressing my self. Everyone needs to find their own path and be as free as everyone else in doing so. The purpose of transition or asking and seeking answers is to become healthy no more no less and that is for all.( The picture is from 2 years ago) I was 61
If I may also say I know the feeling of discrimination from the point of view of my age . If I would of listened to what others said of transitioning when your past 20 years old I would of jump from my favorite apartment building. For whatever reason whether just sheer ignorance or some perverted sense of pleasure some people in society can be mean spirited. You just need to press on and heal yourself.
I can remember back in my second year of transition when I made contact with the trans 'subculture' in a big city here in New Zealand and being really disturbed by the bitchiness and back biting. There was one transwoman that the group considered to be a walking disaster and whenever anybody was feeling down they'd go and visit her because it made them feel better that they weren't as big a 'mess' as she was. It didn't help either that this unfortunate transwoman'd had the 'op' which only made her a larger target for jealousy and general bitchiness.
I think I was triggered by the message that I got from someone that said that I will never know what its like to think like a female or have the mentality of a female until I lived like a female and I thought that was so strange that a complete stranger can judge me and tell me what to think or what not to think like they are like the experts and then pretty much tell me that I had no clue what I am doing here and that I am not being true to myself and I thought to myself WTF!
It got me so upset and then getting attitude from people simply because I do not have a female picture up and that I am still very much male just frustrates me so much because I want more than anything in this world to be a woman but I just cannot do it right now but when I do I am going to do it with so much passion and motivation.
I tried to take pictures of myself in female clothes and I just look like a fat guy in a dress, I am so out of shape and hopefully this winter I can get back into shape.
I guess I should say that I am already filled with emotions of self doubt and what not and then when someone tells me I don't belong here or I do not know what I am talking about that just angers me and I have decided that if I do get a message like that again I am just going to confront them and tell them to leave me alone.
It is just so wild that it got so much responses
Quote from: Sandy74 on October 10, 2015, 11:01:07 AM
I think I was triggered by the message that I got from someone that said that I will never know what its like to think like a female or have the mentality of a female until I lived like a female and I thought that was so strange that a complete stranger can judge me and tell me what to think or what not to think like they are like the experts and then pretty much tell me that I had no clue what I am doing here and that I am not being true to myself and I thought to myself WTF!
It got me so upset and then getting attitude from people simply because I do not have a female picture up and that I am still very much male just frustrates me so much because I want more than anything in this world to be a woman but I just cannot do it right now but when I do I am going to do it with so much passion and motivation.
I tried to take pictures of myself in female clothes and I just look like a fat guy in a dress, I am so out of shape and hopefully this winter I can get back into shape.
I guess I should say that I am already filled with emotions of self doubt and what not and then when someone tells me I don't belong here or I do not know what I am talking about that just angers me and I have decided that if I do get a message like that again I am just going to confront them and tell them to leave me alone.
It is just so wild that it got so much responses
Don't let anyone tell you who you are . Some people look beautiful on the outside while transitioning but they are frightened because they have not a feminin mind . Deep inside they know that their will to be female is just sexually driven and they are so ashamed of themselves because they have the mind of a guy and want to be female that they feel like freaks and then they are going to chase on people like you who maybe might look male on the outside but be perfectly feminin on the inside .
Remember : what really makes you a woman is your inside , not your outside !
People attacking you know deep inside they have a lack of womanhood no matter how many surgeries ,... they undergo and then they just search someone to punish . Defend yourself , give them a mirror of their character .
Besides : attacking someone just random is all except feminin . Proves that they will never be a woman ... Says nothing about you hun
Xxx
I agree, and if someone sends you a disrespectful PM, just contact a moderator and they will deal with the problem. Several months ago someone sent me a PM that was nasty and defamatory, because I disagreed with the way they handled a situation, so I forwarded the PM to a moderator, and that person received quite an earful.
Yes. I have heard of a couple of cases where someone refused to be seen with someone because she wasn't in there own words "passable." Add to that there are some folks who will assert that you aren't truly trans* if (fill in the blank).
Some of the ones I've personally heard --
"You're not truly trans if you like women." (directed at transwomen)
"You're not truly trans if you haven't had SRS."
StephanieC you are amazing! You look so different in such a short time :) Just wonderful and I think it's great you can see and enjoy your own progress, even though some people do not like old pics of themselves. My old photos from childhood can be a bit awful to review, but more for the terrible haircuts and 80's fashions than my own personal trauma, ah ha...
I am pretty bad at proper pronouns, I misgender myself a lot in my own head simply from old habit and I have been bad at friend's proper gender, but I am also VERY bad at speaking coherently when I stress out, so I think most of them can blame it on my jumbled brain. I was irritated at my boss for calling me "she" but all of a sudden he's correcting himself more often and now I am thinking 'she' when I talk about myself. It's a really bizarre see saw, would I rather be misgendering myself constantly or have others doing it instead? Just wierd.
Sandy I think you are awesome to use your own photos- to me, it's like incentive for you to think about your life and take stock of the things you feel are important. I feel like you've already thought on these things quite a lot and I always appreciate your posts. Even though you are often asking advice,it's clear you have been doing research and soul searching of your own before you ask.
I know a few transpeople who do not like trans support groups. A genderqueer dude I know had another friend who latched onto the transman/genderqueer combo and then really rapidly get on HRT and top surgery. I sort of shrugged and was only bothered because I knew that person was the 'leap without looking' sort and I would hate for him to burn himself out or get past the point of changes he wanted and possibly not be entirely happy with the amount of T influence... I don't know, honestly- I didn't care that much. It was and always has been his body not mine. Personally, I wouldn't be able to change that much so fast, but if I had had insurance that would have covered it at the time, I could have gone a bit swifter ;D I said as much, but the other dude kept OBSESSING on it and it got a bit excessive. After awhile I just had to change the subject if he brought it up but sometimes I just nodded and tuned out for the sake of not wanting to argue about it. At one point I believe I was told, "he'll always look like a boy but you'll look like a man," with the idea that we'd be more manly or something. I don't want to think about the fallout if I had confront them about that sort of thing, but I should have known better from previous experiences that I shouldn't encourage his OCD or his envy... :/
I posted a comment on my regular facebook account on a Transgender site about the topic they had was drag queens and how they are not serious transgender folks and have no desires or feelings at all any of them that they are transgender and I made a simple comment that was like just accept yourself and not to worry about so many labels and just be happy with you are no matter what, so they blocked me from making comments and from ever making them in the future and they deleted my comment.
I just don't understand some people that want acceptance but then they go ahead and judge everyone and what they do or are going through and then when you voice an opinion it is shot down and you are blocked? I just am starting to get really frustrated with being involved in the Trans community even if it is just online and the closet is looking more and more better than being out and about involved on facebook that has to do with being trans and all that.
I guess I have lots to think about. Thanks for all the responses people.
Unfortunately some folk in the TG community are like that Sandy. As you've discovered from being a member here on Susan's we all certainly aren't like that.
I really think you're reqding too much into it. Why should you care what some online group thinks? None of it matters. Just worry about your feelings and what you can do to be happy in life. That's all. Life is all we get, it's mostly ->-bleeped-<- and it over fast.
Quote from: Sandy74 on October 10, 2015, 11:01:07 AM
I think I was triggered by the message that I got from someone that said that I will never know what its like to think like a female or have the mentality of a female until I lived like a female and I thought that was so strange that a complete stranger can judge me and tell me what to think or what not to think like they are like the experts and then pretty much tell me that I had no clue what I am doing here and that I am not being true to myself and I thought to myself WTF!
It got me so upset and then getting attitude from people simply because I do not have a female picture up and that I am still very much male just frustrates me so much because I want more than anything in this world to be a woman but I just cannot do it right now but when I do I am going to do it with so much passion and motivation.
I tried to take pictures of myself in female clothes and I just look like a fat guy in a dress, I am so out of shape and hopefully this winter I can get back into shape.
I guess I should say that I am already filled with emotions of self doubt and what not and then when someone tells me I don't belong here or I do not know what I am talking about that just angers me and I have decided that if I do get a message like that again I am just going to confront them and tell them to leave me alone.
It is just so wild that it got so much responses
I don't really know what to say here - but to be fair the first bit of that is correct. I've been treated as 'female' for want of a better word for much of my life. Even when people haven't known. Now I get treated, by and large, as explicitly female. Which makes a lot more sense - and I haven't been attacked, assaulted or abused by men for a while now. Yay!!!! :) I'll leave groping out. That's happened, along with unpleasant sexual comments and objectification, guilt tripping and whatever. But it's what I have to deal with as me, rather than as a plastic boy.
Trouble is that male privilege, the thing I don't have, is presumably quite hard to give up? It looks awesome to an outsider - y'know all that sharing guy stuff and boy's nights and pulling birds and whatever they do. I suppose bits of it are fun! :)
I don't want to try and sound exclusive here - because I'm not at all - but I think the whole business of wanting to transition to a female role is to take on the full lot of being a woman. It's just what I think. Unfortunately being a woman isn't as good as being a man - in a patriarchal society - so I also think it's important to look at aspects of feminism and female empowerment to at least get even with men. I've possibly had different experiences - like being expected to fetch a junior (male) work colleague's tea!! Hilarious - but that's male privilege for you.
But then part of the female role does entail giving up male privilege. I've noticed this strongly in social groups; almost as an unconscious thing. I don't get treated the same any more. With strangers and at work I was always being talked over and contradicted and whatever but now that even seems to happen with male acquaintances who I know aren't even doing it on purpose. ::) So what does this mean? A successful transition - to be seen and treated as a woman - comes with the heavy price (for some) of a class and social status downgrade. Those who have been through it know about it and you'll possibly have that joy to come.
Or there's always the other side, remaining in the male role? I mean, to be really harsh sounding and I don't mean to be at all, your friend was probs. thinking about that when she said you wouldn't know about having the female mentality. It's completely true - there's a completely different set of expectations and whatever over here. Even simple stuff like when a random old man comes up and starts flirting with you when all you want to do is get a coffee!! Do you know what to do when that happens? I wasn't expecting it lol :) Sort of had to slip into my least appealing Eliza Doolittle voice and be nice to him. At which point the pensioner was like OMG she's common and scuttled off. I am, but that's beside the point. Everyone's different - but to really know what it is to be a woman does entail living socially as one, in my opinion. About 90% of it is lovely. I wouldn't give it up for anything. 10% is negative interactions with men - but I had those in greater numbers without the nice bits pre-transition. Also it allows you to fit into girl groups properly, and it sort of helps them out too! They were accepting right at the start of this - but now I'm living as one of them I feel the bonds have got stronger.
And it's like I do think we need to have a commitment to some practical representation of transgender or transsexual (I prefer the latter! I'm not changing my gender but I would like to alter some bits of my body ;)) And to be female you have to let go of what is potentially good for you about living as male. I understand that you might not think it's clothes or hair or some other thing that makes a woman. It's not!! Very unfortunately we get made by social conditioning and treatment. And going round with a beard is straight away going to put you firmly back in guy-town. At least socially. It doesn't mean you aren't trans - but some people are going to see it as a delaying move - holding fast to that which is male for as long as possible. Plus what's the point in going through it at all otherwise? There's always non-binary for that. But I think if you truly consider yourself to have a gender, then you've got to make a commitment to that gender.
And part of that commitment is to take on everything that it means to be female - in part giving up the male markers.
Sorry for the essay - none of this is easy but it's like the one thing I've got strong feelings about. You've got to be a strong person, it takes courage to do this and you'll get there. Only, for me, it wasn't going to happen with a thin male mask on.
Missy xx
p.s. Laser is better than electrolysis ;)
I hope each person here finds their peace.
We are all unique, often others try to transfer their ideas of what they should be on to us. That is their struggle not ours.
No one is here because they have the answers. Everyone is here because at some level they are searching each for their own truth. We share our truth but it is simply that ours, and if it helps someone in their search then that is what Susan's Place is for. Almost every thread here starts with a question or a struggle someone is having.
People being judgmental or critical unfortunately makes them human. The truth in those posts is written between the lines in that they reveal the struggles inside the poster. I have know judgement for them it's just where they are in their search.
Hugs :)
I think it can. I know it's hard to understand others situations sometimes. We have all kinds of variances in the community and one might not understand the other. Plus the whole conforming to one idea of trans thing. But I feel like we all do an ok job of keeping this in check
Anything is possible. And yeah, I bet it can. Is this a rhetorical question or something? I mean, the answer is so obvious really. Because at the end of the day, people are people infected by The Human Condition. As long as people are in the mix, than you gonna have some form of discrimination one way or anorther. Its really nothing to be shocked or surprised about, imo. >.>
No offense to the thread starter, personally, but I do not think this discussion can be all that beneficial unless a solution is developed in addition to this. I feel like if anything it might do the opposite and only cause stress and arguments, two of my worst nemeses right there, yo. :(
~Nixy~
Quote from: Missy D on October 18, 2015, 04:28:26 PM
I don't really know what to say here - but to be fair the first bit of that is correct. I've been treated as 'female' for want of a better word for much of my life. Even when people haven't known. Now I get treated, by and large, as explicitly female. Which makes a lot more sense - and I haven't been attacked, assaulted or abused by men for a while now. Yay!!!! :) I'll leave groping out. That's happened, along with unpleasant sexual comments and objectification, guilt tripping and whatever. But it's what I have to deal with as me, rather than as a plastic boy.
Trouble is that male privilege, the thing I don't have, is presumably quite hard to give up? It looks awesome to an outsider - y'know all that sharing guy stuff and boy's nights and pulling birds and whatever they do. I suppose bits of it are fun! :)
I don't want to try and sound exclusive here - because I'm not at all - but I think the whole business of wanting to transition to a female role is to take on the full lot of being a woman. It's just what I think. Unfortunately being a woman isn't as good as being a man - in a patriarchal society - so I also think it's important to look at aspects of feminism and female empowerment to at least get even with men. I've possibly had different experiences - like being expected to fetch a junior (male) work colleague's tea!! Hilarious - but that's male privilege for you.
But then part of the female role does entail giving up male privilege. I've noticed this strongly in social groups; almost as an unconscious thing. I don't get treated the same any more. With strangers and at work I was always being talked over and contradicted and whatever but now that even seems to happen with male acquaintances who I know aren't even doing it on purpose. ::) So what does this mean? A successful transition - to be seen and treated as a woman - comes with the heavy price (for some) of a class and social status downgrade. Those who have been through it know about it and you'll possibly have that joy to come.
Or there's always the other side, remaining in the male role? I mean, to be really harsh sounding and I don't mean to be at all, your friend was probs. thinking about that when she said you wouldn't know about having the female mentality. It's completely true - there's a completely different set of expectations and whatever over here. Even simple stuff like when a random old man comes up and starts flirting with you when all you want to do is get a coffee!! Do you know what to do when that happens? I wasn't expecting it lol :) Sort of had to slip into my least appealing Eliza Doolittle voice and be nice to him. At which point the pensioner was like OMG she's common and scuttled off. I am, but that's beside the point. Everyone's different - but to really know what it is to be a woman does entail living socially as one, in my opinion. About 90% of it is lovely. I wouldn't give it up for anything. 10% is negative interactions with men - but I had those in greater numbers without the nice bits pre-transition. Also it allows you to fit into girl groups properly, and it sort of helps them out too! They were accepting right at the start of this - but now I'm living as one of them I feel the bonds have got stronger.
And it's like I do think we need to have a commitment to some practical representation of transgender or transsexual (I prefer the latter! I'm not changing my gender but I would like to alter some bits of my body ;)) And to be female you have to let go of what is potentially good for you about living as male. I understand that you might not think it's clothes or hair or some other thing that makes a woman. It's not!! Very unfortunately we get made by social conditioning and treatment. And going round with a beard is straight away going to put you firmly back in guy-town. At least socially. It doesn't mean you aren't trans - but some people are going to see it as a delaying move - holding fast to that which is male for as long as possible. Plus what's the point in going through it at all otherwise? There's always non-binary for that. But I think if you truly consider yourself to have a gender, then you've got to make a commitment to that gender.
And part of that commitment is to take on everything that it means to be female - in part giving up the male markers.
Sorry for the essay - none of this is easy but it's like the one thing I've got strong feelings about. You've got to be a strong person, it takes courage to do this and you'll get there. Only, for me, it wasn't going to happen with a thin male mask on.
Missy xx
p.s. Laser is better than electrolysis ;)
I agree with much of this.
When someone says one who lives as male doesn't know what it is like to be female I don't hear your not female. I hear you can't understand the burden of the role. The loss of privilege. That shared female experience that helps all females bond as much as we do. That sense of a common struggle.
These are nuanced points.
For example. The beard. Does the beard matter? No. The ultimate truth is superficial things are superficial. However, appearance is communication. It tells others things about us we want them to know. Fashion, posture, expression, hygiene communicate huge amounts about us. That is the point of presentation.
For if presentation were not important to transition then what is the point of transition?
If someone said to me I feel dysphoria. I currently only wear panties to come. I notice that person has a beard. I would first say. Shave. Beards are masculine, and perhaps that would help.
If I got a response that. That is just superficial and doesn't matter, then I would be confused. Why do panties matter? They are superficial too.
I don't have answers, and yes the community can discriminate.
If we have hate within for ourselves.. or if we hate that we are not feminine enough or somehow need to overcompensate due to insecurity, then these feelings are projected outward onto others :( This is the sad meaning behind most discrimination..
Edit: maybe not actually.. im tired and think i know but i dont ??? im a bit ashamed of myself thats all i know :(
Quote from: BubblegumSquish link=topic=196786.msg1785946ab#msg1785946 date=1450105596
If we have hate within for ourselves.. or if we hate that we are not feminine enough or somehow need to overcompensate due to insecurity, then these feelings are projected outward onto others :( This is the sad meaning behind most discrimination..
Edit: maybe not actually.. im tired and think i know but i dont ??? im a bit ashamed of myself thats all i know :(
I think that there is a lot of self hatred in the trans community , and therefore a lot of overcompensation. The trans hierarchy is not a myth.
You just wrote what i wish i could have put into words, i feel the same about our community
very good job. I think its important people start posting more about this and seeing it as something that's happening and a lot of that stuff happens on many trans community's iv'e come across.
Like for me i enjoy pink, i enjoy a little bit of femininity but that makes me no less a guy then anyone else and people say "We know, we understand you're you" "be you be happy" a day later you ever notice that same group of people telling you this inside your own community are the ones assuming that we look and act certain ways and applying the gender roles that we are trying to brake out of. I think its important not to give up on our community but to voice it where ever you can nothing in this world starts out with silence and giving up, it starts with speaking out one person does it then others follow next thing you know down the road long or short you have people learning and following your foot steps.
So i think even if you feel like this you just took a step to having people like this realize "Oh, oh"
You all know the old cliche about a bad apple in every bunch. Society sees prejudice in the form of the rich white male, or a guy in KKK regalia. But it is a much, much worse problem. It is prevalent in every race, sexual orientation, gender, culture, country, and any sort of group that humans are separated into. Can discrimination exist within the trans community? How could it not when no community anywhere is totally free from it?