I've been agonising for some time over posting this, in view of past experiences I don't know what to expect, but here goes anyway.
I'm 51, married with a 10yo daughter and 16yo stepson. My wife made it clear from an early stage in our relationship that she didn't trust me, consequently I rarely go out alone and have no real "physical" friends to speak of. I'd kept my feelings about my gender under wraps until last year, when at the prompting of a couple of people I told my wife that I had transgender leanings. To say she didn't take it well would be an understatement, we had 2 weeks of silence, accusations, recriminations, and ultimately it was made clear to me that my "issue" is Not To Be Spoken Of.
I have at various times joined (and subsequently left) any number of internet fora, I seem to have a knack of annoying people somehow... unfortunately whenever I open up to anyone about my problems the only suggestion anyone can come up with is "leave", but if I lost my daughter I would literally have nothing. I know I'm stupid for putting up with it (been told enough times) but I just have to keep going-I've always been the "cool" one, the one who has to be strong for everyone else, but I have nobody to lean on myself.
Then of course when I can't take the "advice" people offer me, they lose patience, stop communicating with me, my self loathing grows, and I become more and more desperate until I end up deleting everything in a fit of depression.
Sorry to have rambled on so, hope I've made some sort of sense.
Bob/Cathy,
Maybe both? I am married with three teen daughters. 51 as well. The big difference is that I always knew I was different but had no idea why. I started finding time to dress in my sister or Mom's clothes when I was about 8 or 9. Stayed with me but became connected to a sexual element. I have purged what I have had hidden, many times. I assumed I was a pervert with a weird kink. I finally hit some very dark, down times(over 3-5 years) and started exploring this. I am lucky in that so far my wife is okay with me an talking about this. However, neither of us are sure if she will stay if I fully transition. She seems to be leaning more in that direction but it does reflect on her too.
Sorry if it seems I just countered your issues with mine. That is not the intent. I was trying to show you the similarities and differences. I cannot give outright advice but can maybe make some suggestions.
Why does she not trust you? Has mentioning that you might be trans changed that(worse?)? The only way it works to stay married and explore your potential trans side is through strong and frequent communication with her. If she has cut that subject out, she has cut out the ability to work through all this with you. This might be one of those "better or worse" moments(or was it only you who agreed to that?). I am not telling you to leave her. However, something has to give. The only reason I say that is, in my experience and observations, dysphoric symptoms may retreat for a while but never go away. They tend to come back, stronger each time(especially if you are told you have to ignore it). For many of us, accepting this element is about saving our lives, not just following up on a quirk or an urge. Many of us reach depressions that lead to self harm or self destructive habits(whether it is overtly physically violent or more subversive like gaining weight, smoking, dependence issues, alcohol, putting ourselves in dangerous situations and other destructive activities).
Does she realize what you feel? Have you explored how you feel and what seems right or not to you (physically). The hard part of talking to a spouse or significant other is you may want to talk to them but not have all the answers yet. I think you should wait till you are pretty sure of where you need to head before having the discussion(once again, my opinion). Ideal is you already know and share it with them on the beginning of dating. For some of us, we were not ready nor did we have the understanding or language at that point. This is where getting a good therapist(preferably a gender specialist) is most helpful. They can help guide your exploration. You can talk to them about things you cannot with your wife. They can be a wall to bounce ideas off. They can be where you experiment and share thoughts you were not sure you could say aloud. Even if not all of your ideas/thoughts are really what you mean, you can work your way through it. You can practice talking through this as if with a family member.
So, I guess my biggest suggestion is to get a therapist who will work with you through this. Then you can figure out if you can just dress occasionally(when your wife is out?); if you need to "under dress"; get androgynous clothing that could be of either gender or start HRT and the path to transition. Then you can figure out how to work with your spouse and daughter (not to mention the best way to offend the step son ;) ).
Please feel free to use, accept or throw away anything I have shared.
I wish you love, acceptance and a smooth path(wherever it takes you).
With warmth,
Joanna
Hello (friendly wave), welcome!
Talking here, and in the chat room will help break the isolation that you are in right now, and hopefully make you feel supported, especially given your circumstance outlined in your post, for those who choose not to transition, for what ever reasons. What is clear, is that you love your children, and are prepared to do anything for them.
Warmest regards
Sno
You will receive good advice here. There are many wise and wonderful contributors to this website that will certainly try to help you work through the issues you outlined. However, internet forums have built-in limitations. You really need to seek professional, face-to-face guidance from a qualified counselor. I would urge you to begin the search for a therapist a.s.a.p. All the best to you.
I agree, a gender therapist can help you sort out your needs and path.
I am 54 and came out to my wife at 50. We have a 19 year old young woman in college. I too do not like confrontation and capitulated to unrealistic demands. I too was and am not trusted. I am and have been 100% faithful.
I understand your dilemma. You will make choices either conscious or subconscious. Because I could not make a conscious decision my subconscious gave me an ultimatum in 2012 (to get help after suicide attempts) and in 2015 ( to go full time thus divorce after a suicide attempt).
You're situation is bad, but it could be worse, and your wife might come around. Look at it this way. She could have just divorced you and taken the kids, claimed domestic abuse or something.
You seem to be the victim of some sort of abuse.
As it is, she seems like one of those borderline and controlling personalities. Much of her power comes from her control over you. But the thing about individuals like this is that they are far more dependent on you than you initially think. You don't want to divorce her (and she doesn't want to divorce you - guilt works both ways, does she want her daughter to lose a parent), so find ways to break that hold over you. Initiate games with your children, with a prescribed set of rules, invite her to play and force her to follow them. If she tries to force rules on you DO NOT ENGAGE, do not play. Once she learns she cannot force you to do what she wants she'll try and guilt you. DO NOT ENGAGE. She feeds off the reaction, and once you react, you simply encourage further bad behaviour. She needs to learn how to compromise and you can't do this by giving in to her whims. If you want to watch something on TV, watch it. If you want to read a book, read it. Build a bond with your kids and try and reform some old friendships, make yourself less dependent on her, get yourself away from her and soon she'll realise that she needs you more than you need her.
Also, does she have a job? do you have a job? who owns the house? etc.
Don't take my word as gospel, I haven't been around for anywhere near long enough to know everything. Look around and find advice that fits. But also, you need to work on your personality too, to stop annoying people. She has the far bigger problem, but that doesn't mean you can't change either, in more ways than one.
Quote from: Joanna50 on August 11, 2016, 02:28:48 PM
Bob/Cathy,
Maybe both? I am married with three teen daughters. 51 as well. The big difference is that I always knew I was different but had no idea why. I started finding time to dress in my sister or Mom's clothes when I was about 8 or 9. Stayed with me but became connected to a sexual element. I have purged what I have had hidden, many times. I assumed I was a pervert with a weird kink. I finally hit some very dark, down times(over 3-5 years) and started exploring this. I am lucky in that so far my wife is okay with me an talking about this. However, neither of us are sure if she will stay if I fully transition. She seems to be leaning more in that direction but it does reflect on her too.
Sorry I wasn't very clear in my original post. I've known since, well, certainly before I started school that I was "different". I too dressed in my sister's and mother's clothes, as well as my first wife's. I assumed too that I was some sort of pervert, it frightened me... it was really only about 10 years ago that I realised, maybe, my feelings were deeper than those of a crossdresser.
QuoteWhy does she not trust you? Has mentioning that you might be trans changed that(worse?)? The only way it works to stay married and explore your potential trans side is through strong and frequent communication with her.
I left my first wife for my current wife some 13 years ago. She keeps going on about this, and if I've done it once, I'll do it again... since I disclosed my "issue" last year she's become even worse if anything, if she really wants to hurt me she makes comments about me "looking for another woman... or man". As far as she is concerned my "issue" is Not To Be Spoken Of.
QuoteThe only reason I say that is, in my experience and observations, dysphoric symptoms may retreat for a while but never go away. They tend to come back, stronger each time(especially if you are told you have to ignore it). For many of us, accepting this element is about saving our lives, not just following up on a quirk or an urge. Many of us reach depressions that lead to self harm or self destructive habits(whether it is overtly physically violent or more subversive like gaining weight, smoking, dependence issues, alcohol, putting ourselves in dangerous situations and other destructive activities).
Last year I underwent treatment for depression. This culminated in 8 months of counselling, which unfortunately didn't help... the counsellor skirted round my gender issues (no pun intended) and eventually opined that, because my sister was blatantly my parents' favourite, I wanted to be her so I'd get some affection. That just set me off on another downward spiral...
QuoteDoes she realize what you feel? Have you explored how you feel and what seems right or not to you (physically). The hard part of talking to a spouse or significant other is you may want to talk to them but not have all the answers yet.
I've tried to tell her but where my wants and needs are concerned she seems to have a kind of selective deafness... attempts are usually greeted with replies such as "I'm not a lesbian" or "do you know how much you've hurt me?"
QuoteSo, I guess my biggest suggestion is to get a therapist who will work with you through this. Then you can figure out if you can just dress occasionally(when your wife is out?); if you need to "under dress"; get androgynous clothing that could be of either gender or start HRT and the path to transition. Then you can figure out how to work with your spouse and daughter (not to mention the best way to offend the step son ;) ).
Please feel free to use, accept or throw away anything I have shared.
I wish you love, acceptance and a smooth path(wherever it takes you).
With warmth,
Joanna
Part of the problem with my therapy was that every time I got home my wife demanded to know the intimate details of what had been discussed, she was adamant that I was hiding stuff from her, but how can you tell someone who only hears what they want to and twists everything? I'm reminded of the Queen of Hearts, "words mean what I say they mean"... I'm rarely at home alone, my wife is self employed and so storing stuff at home is out of the question, the friend who did provide me storage space and space to be "me" broke off contact as she couldn't cope with my depression and introspection. I feel like I'm going down a downward spiral with no escape...
Quote from: Just Me Here on August 11, 2016, 08:50:03 PM
You're situation is bad, but it could be worse, and your wife might come around. Look at it this way. She could have just divorced you and taken the kids, claimed domestic abuse or something.
I'd kind of expected that to happen... it may yet do, I don't know.
QuoteAs it is, she seems like one of those borderline and controlling personalities. Much of her power comes from her control over you. But the thing about individuals like this is that they are far more dependent on you than you initially think. You don't want to divorce her (and she doesn't want to divorce you - guilt works both ways, does she want her daughter to lose a parent), so find ways to break that hold over you. Initiate games with your children, with a prescribed set of rules, invite her to play and force her to follow them. If she tries to force rules on you DO NOT ENGAGE, do not play. Once she learns she cannot force you to do what she wants she'll try and guilt you. DO NOT ENGAGE. She feeds off the reaction, and once you react, you simply encourage further bad behaviour. She needs to learn how to compromise and you can't do this by giving in to her whims.
Unfortunately in her book compromise seems to work only one way...
QuoteIf you want to watch something on TV, watch it. If you want to read a book, read it. Build a bond with your kids and try and reform some old friendships, make yourself less dependent on her, get yourself away from her and soon she'll realise that she needs you more than you need her.
Also, does she have a job? do you have a job? who owns the house? etc.
She's self employed, well more a glorified hobby - all the money comes from me. The house is in joint names but she had a "deed of separation" drawn up so I effectively only have a claim on half of it. She even told the solicitor she didn't trust me...
QuoteDon't take my word as gospel, I haven't been around for anywhere near long enough to know everything. Look around and find advice that fits. But also, you need to work on your personality too, to stop annoying people. She has the far bigger problem, but that doesn't mean you can't change either, in more ways than one.
I think it's my depression that annoys people... when I get down it's like a black hole sucking in EVERYTHING, it's all consuming and I can't see anything beyond my own problems...
I'm only 25 but am going through a similar situation. My partner was jealous and controlling for a long time. When I came out to him, he insisted that it was my fault and that I hurt him. We have two babies together and he has a seven year old daughter who I consider my own (been in her life since she was only thirteen months old). Because I'm in a similar situation I don't have any answers, but I do recommend trying to see a gender therapist. I've been put on a five month waiting list to see one. I'm hoping to learn about ways to cope with all this. I can't stand the thought of losing my kids either; it's a tough situation and it makes the depression so much worse.
I'm reeling from some pretty personal comments made on another forum, pointing out my personality defects and basically accusing me of time wasting and attention seeking. If anyone feels I've wasted their time then I'm sorry, I'll take my leave and carry on coping as I have all my life. Thank you.
You're not wasting anybody's time at all. :-). As for the other forum, it sounds like those are not nice people.
My wife used to give me hell in much the same way as you describe yours. So I can feel your pain and know how much it hurts. My wife did eventually come around when I tried to explain clearly what trans was and that I wanted to kill myself over it all. Still she's not perfect, but since I'm not either, perfection is too much to ask for.
Stay and maybe we can eventually help. Vent all you want, we all need someplace to let out the pressure and it does help to do it where people understand.
Let me say upfront that it's much easier to give advice and see issues for what they really are when it's someone else's situation. Having said that, you will likely be/feel like the victim as long as you cede the "power over you" to someone else. Retaking control over your own emotions and how you feel about you can start with small steps. If you don't own your space especially with someone who doesn't acknowledge your RIGHT to think, feel and be who you are, you're walking with a foot nailed to the floor. Imagine you LOVE the Green Bay Packers (OK, pick your own team) and someone you know ridicules you for backing the Pack as opposed to their team........... would you cower in the corner, feel like you are somehow wrong and submissively accept the ridicule, or continue to confidently believe in and support your team with the knowledge that the other person is entitled to their opinion as are you? May I submit it's no different with your feelings and your relationship with a big exception: you feel guilty for your feelings and feminine inclinations. Until you fully accept that those are genuine and you are entitled to feel them despite how others including and especially your wife feels about them, you will continue to allow yourself to be victimized. Figure out how to retake control..........the right counselor/therapist can be a great asset.
Let me add that I've made the most progress in particularly difficult relationship situations when I was able to shed the guilt and fully embrace that others' non acceptance was their issue rather than mine........I don't need to conform to their view of how I should live my life - they need to "get over it".........or not.
I dropped the T-Bomb on my wife when I was 53. For her this was a MAJOR betrayal, which is a major hot-button issue for her after having been betrayed many times by others in her past. Unlike your situation she knew from about day 1 I had gender issues. Only now is she mostly over the betrayal and has a great deal of trust in me.
People hopefully learn and grow as we go through life. Some people do not. You want to learn and grow as a person. If like me your marriage, your love, to this woman is a big factor to your overall happiness, there is a lot of juggling of conflicting needs and wants.
I still live and present primarily as male. A far from ideal situation today after having been able to live part-time as female. I cannot take the risk given my obligations to her and to "The Us" of going full-time. I would like to, don't need to. There are plenty of "Needs" I do address, in particular the TG needs.
When I decided to take on the Trans-Beast for real seven years ago any sort of transition was not even on the radar. Been there, tried it twice. Both times disasters. What I came to realize after a lot of introspection was that I needed to figure out how to get these two major aspects of myself, the male and the female, to live in peace together. In essence to have my cake and eat it too. This took a lot of hard work and still is. I read a ton of self-help books and got into therapy. I needed to rid myself of the guilt and the shame of being trans. I needed to unlearn a lot of unhealthy behaviors I used to try to be as normal of a guy I could. A "Normal" that eventually led me to become a lifeless, soulless Thing that only existed to do "What was Expected". Easy back then because I knew nothing else other then what was expected. I had no hopes, no wishes, no dreams, except one given up on long long ago. Today I am still learning what it is like to actually be Me.
There are a lot of things you can do for yourself, in spite of her diktat to "Never speak of this 'Thing' again". Her "Not Trusting" you sure is going to make it complicated to see a therapist, any therapist even. A TG support group is certainly out unless there is a weekend daytime one when you are off to Home Despot for something ;D Still, like me there are plenty of books out there. Some spoke volumes to me. Others didn't take long to realize didn't "Grab" me. Sadly, your options are limited, in part by your own rules.
Editorial IMO a marriage is a partnership. Both parties need to balance each others needs and wants as well as their own. Two Co-Equal branches with some division of labor. My wife and I both place the others happiness over our own. Dysfunctional? Maybe. But if the other isn't happy, don't you want to change that? If ultimately their happiness, perhaps even their life, means major upsetting changes to your own one way or another, it is selfish to deny them theirs for your own. Don't you think?
When I am faced with complicated issues or questions with answers just as complicated I found one simple "Test" yields all you need to discover:
"Which Pain is Worse?"
Quote from: JoanneB on August 13, 2016, 07:44:59 AMI still live and present primarily as male. A far from ideal situation today after having been able to live part-time as female. I cannot take the risk given my obligations to her and to "The Us" of going full-time. I would like to, don't need to. There are plenty of "Needs" I do address, in particular the TG needs.
I don't - can't - address my TG needs. It was suggested that I could dress when she was out - but as whenever she's out invariably at least one of the kids is in, apart from an hour and a half every other Sunday, that's not really practical. I did try, but I couldn't relax as I had one ear cocked for her getting back early and one eye on the clock. I did have a couple of friends who let me use their places, but as they were both 40-50 miles away it meant taking a day off work every time, and eventually they stopped offering... I didn't like to ask... and one of them ultimately cut me off completely.
QuoteI needed to rid myself of the guilt and the shame of being trans. I needed to unlearn a lot of unhealthy behaviors I used to try to be as normal of a guy I could. A "Normal" that eventually led me to become a lifeless, soulless Thing that only existed to do "What was Expected". Easy back then because I knew nothing else other then what was expected. I had no hopes, no wishes, no dreams, except one given up on long long ago.
I know all about the guilt and shame. She is very good at playing on it. The last 3 sentences are exactly how I feel...
QuoteToday I am still learning what it is like to actually be Me.
There are a lot of things you can do for yourself, in spite of her diktat to "Never speak of this 'Thing' again". Her "Not Trusting" you sure is going to make it complicated to see a therapist, any therapist even. A TG support group is certainly out unless there is a weekend daytime one when you are off to Home Despot for something ;D Still, like me there are plenty of books out there. Some spoke volumes to me. Others didn't take long to realize didn't "Grab" me. Sadly, your options are limited, in part by your own rules.
I did see a therapist for 8 months. Every time I got home I was grilled... I think that was partly why it wasn't ultimately of much benefit, although equally the therapist was convinced that deep down I wanted to be my sister (who was blatantly my parents' favourite).
Quote
Editorial IMO a marriage is a partnership. Both parties need to balance each others needs and wants as well as their own. Two Co-Equal branches with some division of labor. My wife and I both place the others happiness over our own. Dysfunctional? Maybe. But if the other isn't happy, don't you want to change that? If ultimately their happiness, perhaps even their life, means major upsetting changes to your own one way or another, it is selfish to deny them theirs for your own. Don't you think?
My needs and wants seem to be subservient to my wife's. I try my damnedest to make her happy, ultimately though my best never seems to be good enough. I'm constantly made to feel selfish for wanting anything for myself... I just don't know what to do.
QuoteWhen I am faced with complicated issues or questions with answers just as complicated I found one simple "Test" yields all you need to discover:
"Which Pain is Worse?"
And that's the big question, if I knew the answer to that one everything would be clear...
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 12, 2016, 01:55:41 PM
Last year I underwent treatment for depression. This culminated in 8 months of counselling, which unfortunately didn't help... the counsellor skirted round my gender issues (no pun intended) and eventually opined that, because my sister was blatantly my parents' favourite, I wanted to be her so I'd get some affection. That just set me off on another downward spiral...
A lot of therapists are really uncomfortable with gender variance, and it doesn't help that the medical profession and the mental health profession in particular have seen their job as forcing their patients to be what society considers "healthy" and "normal." They don't know anything about gender issues and would rather reinterpret their patients' issues in terms they feel more comfortable with.
Having to hide some essential part of yourself and pretend to be what you aren't is by itself enough to cause pretty bad depression. That your therapist didn't want to address the elephant in the living room simply says that she/he wasn't a good therapist for you. My therapist of 20+ years was clearly uncomfortable when I started talking about wearing skirts and dresses, but was not willing to admit she had an issue with it. I finally realized that she could no longer help me, since she wasn't willing to go where I needed to go to find out who I really was under all that denial and repression. My current therapist has experience with transgender patients and with treatment of trauma, which has made her a good therapist for me, and I'm cautiously optimistic that I'll finally be able to address the issues that have been tormenting me my whole life.
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 12, 2016, 01:55:41 PM
I've tried to tell her but where my wants and needs are concerned she seems to have a kind of selective deafness... attempts are usually greeted with replies such as "I'm not a lesbian" or "do you know how much you've hurt me?"
Part of the problem with my therapy was that every time I got home my wife demanded to know the intimate details of what had been discussed, she was adamant that I was hiding stuff from her, but how can you tell someone who only hears what they want to and twists everything? I'm reminded of the Queen of Hearts, "words mean what I say they mean"... I'm rarely at home alone, my wife is self employed and so storing stuff at home is out of the question, the friend who did provide me storage space and space to be "me" broke off contact as she couldn't cope with my depression and introspection. I feel like I'm going down a downward spiral with no escape...
This sounds a lot like my ex, but in my case, I wasn't even presenting any gender issues yet, yet she was treating me this way. I finally reached the point where I didn't want to live any more, and realized I had to get out or I would die. BTW my sons were 11 and 14 at the time, and they both had serious issues, so I was reluctant at first to leave. But eventually I realized I was no good to them dead -- or dead inside -- and that I could help them more by providing an emotionally safe place for them, so at age 50, I started the process to leave.
I know you want to stay with her, but from your description, that may not be possible. This sounds like a bad situation, apart from any gender issues.
BTW, if you do consider leaving, retain a good lawyer first, before you let her know anything, and follow their instructions. I got a PO box for any correspondence with my lawyer, so she wouldn't see it or have a chance to intercept it. Yes, she'll get mad, but you say she already didn't trust you from the beginning. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 14, 2016, 04:19:19 AM
My needs and wants seem to be subservient to my wife's. I try my damnedest to make her happy, ultimately though my best never seems to be good enough. I'm constantly made to feel selfish for wanting anything for myself... I just don't know what to do.
OMG. Please tell me you aren't 50-year-old me, from 13 years ago.... I could have written exactly the same thing back then. This kind of thing will kill you.
It is easy to see why therapy wasn't doing much. Like how could you open up and be brutally honest, baring your soul to them when "you got grilled"?
Oh wait.... It can if you're in a loving relationship. Adversarial... well... that does require some delicacy; Or outright lying. I know how hard or difficult the latter can be. My wife knows me too well for me to hold back and get away with it.
QuoteMy needs and wants seem to be subservient to my wife's. I try my damnedest to make her happy, ultimately though my best never seems to be good enough. I'm constantly made to feel selfish for wanting anything for myself... I just don't know what to do.
A Partnership
Implies both sides Give as well as Take. Seems like only only one party is participating fully. What can you do? A relatively easy one is "Set Limits" before, as my wife often says to me... "I find you hanging from the end of a rope in the garage". OK Most days it isn't
That bad but.... There is a nice chunk of concrete I hit square on at easily 90 MPH if/when I need to. Again I may want to some days, I don't
Need to, thankfully. Better you get help/advise and tell her "I am uncomfortable discussing what we talked about" then the alternative of self harming. Which in effect is where you are today slowly morphing into a similar lifeless, soulless
Thing I forced myself to become.
Most times I do open up completely to my wife about how my sessions with the therapist went when she asks. If there was something I'd rather not revel, I just flat out tell her something a bit ambiguous like "Scary Stuff". If she presses further I usually do fold knowing I can tell her anything/everything. But I sometimes obfuscate when it is really really scary stuff, something I haven't sorted out fully, and especially something I haven't sorted out fully that lead her to assuming a "Worse Case" scenario. Though, she 90% of the time has solutions I never was able to dream of that can likely work.
I suspect you are overthinking my "Simple" question of Which Pain is Worse? Which is worse is easy. You now have a direction. The "What Next?"..... That requires some to a LOT of thought.
I sense, that like me, you need some "Me" time to escape
Maleness. Kids do complicate things and I am no expert there aside from knowing "Something" can be worked out so you can be alone in the house for a few hours or more. That is if your wife is willing to help which seems like she is not.
Indulge you, and then what comes next? Best to beat it down. That same old tired trope you tried for 4-5 decades. Want another 50 years of that?
I love a good Irony. Even poor to mediocre ones. My existence is one GIANT irony being trans, being Gigantor, being balding since 14, being a deeper voiced announcer then most radio guys. The Irony here with you... Sometimes you just need to "Man-Up". God knows how difficult it was and is for me to. But....
But until you are stronger, you can still check out books and DVD's from the library, do some reading, Check out some TED Talks, etc. to start healing yourself. Covering a few pages a day during lunch is easy. Rather then surfing, do TED or other resources.
To paraphrase my ex-fiancee, My self-esteem is (or was) "Lower then the belly of a pregnant snail". Taking any sort of a step is super scary, so much risk, way too many unknowns to ponder.
I have another affirmation I often use, almost daily. A simple reminder to try to get ME to apply the same easy lessons I learned and are reflexive when it comes to my work...
I Know What Does Not Work.
I suspect you also know what hasn't been working. Albert Einstein defined "Insanity" as doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. I know for now that for the longest time I was insane.
I'm Feeling Much Better Now. So can you. Life, living is terminal. You will wind up dead. Misery, unlike life, does not need to be terminal. Only You can prevent misery. Somehow you need to find the inner strength, the need, the desire, to take even just a small chance and change things. Change towards the direction you
NEED
I have been through a similar situation, and I dealt with it effectively so far, so i may be able to offer some advice. My question to you is, what exactly are you trying accomplish? Change, or comfort without change?
I tried the vague approach... I tried saying stuff like "childhood stuff", to which I got the response "what sort of childhood stuff?" I got the distinct feeling I was being needled, it was painful enough going through some of that stuff once never mind twice. She was frequently disparaging saying "it can't be doing you much good", ultimately part of me started to think she didn't want me to get better... Just like she doesn't want me to lose weight.
I'd love a break from "maleness" sometimes, but I definitely won't get it at home. It's been 2 years now since I had any "me time" with no prospect of any on the horizon. My wife views my condition as some kind of perversion, indeed she accused me of "going through my wardrobe looking for something to have a w**k in" which hurt like hell... I daren't say anything though, as ever... Self esteem? What's that?
I'll have a look for some self help books, I have a Kindle reader on my phone so could probably find something electronically-just a case then of choosing my moment carefully as if she sees me with my phone in my hand...
Quote from: Christina308 on August 15, 2016, 02:42:03 AM
I have been through a similar situation, and I dealt with it effectively so far, so i may be able to offer some advice. My question to you is, what exactly are you trying accomplish? Change, or comfort without change?
I'd like to change but every time I try, something inside seems to stop me. If there's an option for comfort without change I haven't found it yet...
I'm really sorry to say this, but from my own experiences within my own marriage, and the experiences of many others here, it doesn't sound promising for the future of your marriage... irrespective of whether you choose to transition.
A couple of things you've said concern me greatly about your situation:
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 11, 2016, 10:51:45 AM
To say she didn't take it well would be an understatement, we had 2 weeks of silence, accusations, recriminations, and ultimately it was made clear to me that my "issue" is Not To Be Spoken Of.
This, and many other things you've said in the thread, is indicative of abusive behaviour. My ex used to do the same to me, torturing me for around 2 weeks at a time with the same 'cold shoulder' behaviour, until eventually I'd capitulate and 'apologise' just so I could get a bit of affection again.
This next bit is also very much part of an emotionally abusive relationship - I suggest you research 'emotional abuse' and see how much of it resonates with you:
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 14, 2016, 04:19:19 AM
My needs and wants seem to be subservient to my wife's. I try my damnedest to make her happy, ultimately though my best never seems to be good enough. I'm constantly made to feel selfish for wanting anything for myself... I just don't know what to do.
In a marriage - or any long-term, committed relationship - each partner should be putting their other half's needs above their own. That way, nobody is being selfish and nobody is being neglected. If one of you is putting in the effort but the other one isn't, that doesn't bode well for the future of your marriage. How much longer can you tolerate being neglected? You've put in a good 13-year stint already (and I daresay there were many wonderful times during that period), but if your marriage has come to the point where your wife is being cruel to you, do you honestly think it'll get better and she'll start treating you kindly again? Especially now you've come out to her about your trans feelings. Is she going to accept you warts & all and start loving you again, or is she going to use it as a stick to beat you with every time you have an argument? I don't know either of you from a bar of soap, but I know which way I'd bet on that.
Here's another cause for concern:
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 12, 2016, 01:55:41 PM
... since I disclosed my "issue" last year she's become even worse if anything, if she really wants to hurt me she makes comments about me "looking for another woman... or man". As far as she is concerned my "issue" is Not To Be Spoken Of.
Aha! And here's the crux of the entire problem. That 'or man' bit of her jibe is very telling: she appears to be homophobic. And if you transition to a woman and remain married to her, then everyone else will perceive her as being a lesbian... and that thought is repulsive to her. Which could very well explain why she's reacting so viciously: she sees the entire scenario as an attack on her identity as a straight married woman and on her reputation within your community. Oh look, here's yet more evidence of the same:
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 12, 2016, 01:55:41 PM
I've tried to tell her but where my wants and needs are concerned she seems to have a kind of selective deafness... attempts are usually greeted with replies such as "I'm not a lesbian" or "do you know how much you've hurt me?"
"Do you know how much you've hurt me?" Because she doesn't want other people to perceive her as being something she despises, and she thinks you're forcing her into a situation she'll find intolerable. I don't know her, but I rather suspect that the foremost thing in her mind is probably: what will everyone say? What will people think of her? Will they mock & ridicule her for being married to a (you know which slur)? Will they subject her to the kind of venom & vitriol she reserves for the LGBT community? It's not about you... it's all about her. Sound familiar?
In her defence, it's also entirely possible that she's simply not attracted to women and she's worried that if you transition she'll no longer be attracted to you. And that is entirely legitimate & valid.
On a slightly different subject:
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 13, 2016, 03:39:20 AM
I'm reeling from some pretty personal comments made on another forum, pointing out my personality defects and basically accusing me of time wasting and attention seeking.
In my experience, anyone who tries to call you 'attention seeking' is basically somebody who likes to get all the attention themselves, and feels jealous when somebody comes along with a better, or more deserving, case. For that reason, you can confidently ignore anyone who ever accuses you of being 'attention seeking'. ;)
In conclusion: I believe your wife is probably emotionally (and financially) abusing you. And a lot of abusers tend to ramp up the abuse if they get any hint that their partner is trying to leave them. It's a way of trying to maintain control over their partner: if you feel confident enough to leave, then she loses her 'cash cow', her comfortable life and her status in the community. So it's possible that she's trying to even further diminish your self-confidence to make it difficult for you to leave, so you can keep supporting her.
I notice you're in the UK (me too!) so I can assure you that courts in the UK don't routinely stop access or custody for parents just because we're trans. Your wife might want to you think they do - and I'm willing to bet the farm that she'll try to use your daughter as a weapon with which to manipulate you - but that's just another way of her trying to frighten you into not leaving (and not transitioning). I recommend you find an LGBT-friendly solicitor in your area and investigate your options - even if you decide not to take it anywhere. Because your wife might initiate proceedings at any time, and if she does it'll help you enormously to have your ducks in a row.
It is absolutely not guaranteed that your wife will get sole (or even any) custody, and who knows? your daughter may prefer to live with you anyway. At her age, if you were to divorce then the court will take her wishes into account when sorting out her custody arrangements. And there's an LGBT Centre in your local area: why not drop in for a chat? They may have some good advice from local people who've been through similar.
All is not lost. You can still be free. And you can still maintain a relationship with your daughter. She's at a great age if you choose to come out to her: if you wait until her teens she may become moody or resentful, so really the best time to come out to her is now. And that might knock some of the wind out of your wife's sails. ;)
You deserve far better than this. We all do.
Hi BobwasCathy,
There is much wisdom in FTMDiaries post. I agree with all of it. You need to start thinking about yourself.
I came out to my wife first. That is a long story and not suitable for this thread other than to say, she was dead against me coming out to our daughters. We all live in the same house and I wanted to be free in my own home so I defied her and told them anyway. They instantly became my strongest allies. They are both completely cool with it. They have even ganged up on my wife (their mother!) berating her for her lack of acceptance of me. I had to knock that on the head. I realise my wife can't help how she feels and doesn't deserve to be bullied but I have to admit to a fair amount of joy over that particular incident. One of my daughters is very encouraging. She says things like "live the dream Dad." and when we go out she says "why are you changing?".
My point is that you never know how people are going to react. Allies can come from the least expected places. Having just one supportive ally has improved the quality of my life immeasurably. My wife has come a long way also. She helps me buy clothes and seems much more comfortable around me at home.
Your wife sounds like she will never accept you but your daughter will probably surprise you, especially if you have a close relationship to begin with. I was always able to talk with my girls about ANYTHING. They always get embarassed long before I do ;D
Finally, you mention your depression and how you feel it alienates people. That won't ever change unless you find a way to change your circumstances. I hope you can find a path to a better life. Not only for you but for those around you.
Wishing you only the best
Hugs
B
Quote from: FTMDiaries on August 15, 2016, 09:11:31 AMMy ex used to do the same to me, torturing me for around 2 weeks at a time with the same 'cold shoulder' behaviour, until eventually I'd capitulate and 'apologise' just so I could get a bit of affection again.
That's pretty much how it goes. I can't remember my wife ever admitting that she was wrong, or apologising... once she used her favourite line "if you're not happy <not permitted>" so I got out of bed and started getting dressed, she asked where I was going and I said "I'm <not Permitted>, that's obviously what you want" but she managed to persuade me (once again) that I'm the unreasonable one.
QuoteIs she going to accept you warts & all and start loving you again, or is she going to use it as a stick to beat you with every time you have an argument? I don't know either of you from a bar of soap, but I know which way I'd bet on that.
At first she said "nothing has really changed", and no, it hasn't. I thought it was a form of acceptance, but it was more a case of her saying "...AND IT'S NOT GOING TO NOW..."
QuoteThat 'or man' bit of her jibe is very telling: she appears to be homophobic. And if you transition to a woman and remain married to her, then everyone else will perceive her as being a lesbian... and that thought is repulsive to her. Which could very well explain why she's reacting so viciously: she sees the entire scenario as an attack on her identity as a straight married woman and on her reputation within your community.
Funnily enough, she was made redundant 6 1/2 years ago, following which she became extremely close to a lesbian woman she used to work with. To the extent that I'd get home some days and find them sitting in the summerhouse giggling like a pair of schoolgirls... She didn't have a good word for this woman's partner, spoke about her like she was the offspring of the devil... and when they split up and her erstwhile friend decided to go back to her parents in Canada, she sulked for *days*. Denial isn't just a river in Egypt...
Quote"Do you know how much you've hurt me?" Because she doesn't want other people to perceive her as being something she despises, and she thinks you're forcing her into a situation she'll find intolerable. I don't know her, but I rather suspect that the foremost thing in her mind is probably: what will everyone say? What will people think of her? Will they mock & ridicule her for being married to a (you know which slur)? Will they subject her to the kind of venom & vitriol she reserves for the LGBT community?
In the same way I used to try to be uber-male, wearing the scruffy jeans, beard, motorbikes... makes me wonder if she's trying to be uber-hetero. She's not the most feminine of people though... she lives in baggy jeans and I haven't seen her in a skirt since she was pregnant 11 years ago...
QuoteIn conclusion: I believe your wife is probably emotionally (and financially) abusing you. And a lot of abusers tend to ramp up the abuse if they get any hint that their partner is trying to leave them. It's a way of trying to maintain control over their partner: if you feel confident enough to leave, then she loses her 'cash cow', her comfortable life and her status in the community. So it's possible that she's trying to even further diminish your self-confidence to make it difficult for you to leave, so you can keep supporting her.
Certainly my first wife tried that, she'd wind me up then in company she'd be all sweetness and light so as to make me appear to be the miserable one... ironically I believed that by leaving her for my current wife I was changing things... the words "frying pan" and "fire" spring to mind.
QuoteI notice you're in the UK (me too!) so I can assure you that courts in the UK don't routinely stop access or custody for parents just because we're trans. Your wife might want to you think they do - and I'm willing to bet the farm that she'll try to use your daughter as a weapon with which to manipulate you - but that's just another way of her trying to frighten you into not leaving (and not transitioning). I recommend you find an LGBT-friendly solicitor in your area and investigate your options - even if you decide not to take it anywhere.
I did actually speak to a solicitor a couple of years ago when things got particularly bad, unfortunately I wasn't encouraged... don't think it helped that the (lady) solicitor seemed to take her side, because my doing all the housework, washing, cooking etc. while holding down a full time job was only what a good husband ought to do without question anyway.
QuoteAnd there's an LGBT Centre in your local area: why not drop in for a chat? They may have some good advice from local people who've been through similar.
Unfortunately, as I've probably said elsewhere, it's not easy for me to get out due to her suspicion and lack of trust. People have suggested various support groups etc in the local area, and yes, it would be fine if I could get out to them, but... the trouble is, much of what she says is true, I don't tell her everything, I am secretive, I do keep things to myself... but equally I discovered the reaction when I do tell her stuff. And it wasn't a good one.
Mod Edit:Language
Just use work as an excuse whenever you go out. Offer to let her pay the bills if she wants you to stay at home.
I think you're right about your wife taking a cruise down that big Egyptian river. It's a well-known fact that the biggest homophobes are closet cases themselves (it's not just a stereotype; there has been recent research which shows it to be true). And it would explain why she's so vicious towards you: she may well have homosexual tendencies but she Does Not Want to be perceived in that way. She was safe having that friendship (was that all it was?) with her lesbian friend several years ago, because she felt safe to indulge a part of herself whilst being perceived as a straight married woman. It's about her public face and her reputation, which she's probably willing to protect at all costs.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with a solicitor several years ago, but that was just the wrong solicitor for you. There are bound to be dozens of solicitors in your area, and some of them have experience with the LGBT community. That's key, because you'll need advice from someone who's au fait with family law and how it pertains to trans people, specifically when there are children involved. I daresay that other solicitor you tried wouldn't have a clue about that and would give you bad advice. Simply googling 'LGBT Solicitors Leicestershire' brings up 5 firms on the first page alone. So why not investigate some of those and give them a ring, or drop them an email? You're bound to get better advice than you did the last time you tried.
And here's the thing: whether or not you decide to transition, your marriage is in dire straits and if/when it eventually comes to the crunch, you can bet your bottom dollar (pound?) that she'll drag up the 'trans issue' in court as a way to weaken your position and get as much as she can out of you. So it's vital that you get your ducks in a row with the right kind of solicitor.
If you find it difficult to get out of the house, you can always ring or email people instead of visiting them. After all, you probably spend most of your day at work so there's your opportunity: if you drive to or from work, pull over at the side of the road somewhere and phone people on your mobile. Or find a quiet spot at lunchtime & do the same - or email them if that's easier. If you find a suitable solicitor and want to visit them, you could always book a half-day off work (or something) without telling the missus, keep to your usual time of leaving home in the morning & arriving back at night so she'll have no idea. If she checks your phone, get a separate (lockable) one that you keep at work. If she checks your emails, open a new Gmail account and don't tell her about it or give her any way of accessing it. There are ways and means of doing it. ;)
It's not surprising you've been hiding things from your wife: if she keeps attacking you whenever you open up, then it's only natural for you to want to minimise the damage by keeping things to yourself. If she wants full openness and transparency within your marriage, she has to do her part to ensure it's safe for you to confide in her.
OP, based on the information you shared, I was wondering if my wife has a twin sister.
Last year I got treated like I catch a contagious disease and then she cheated on me. I had similar fears that I will loose my family, especially my little daughter.
Now more then half a year later we are almost divorced, my daughter will stay most of the time with me, I'm out to a bunch of people - all of them supportive - and I'm slowly transitioning.
I'm so happy, beginning of this year, I would not have imagined that this would be possible.
I don't want to push you into any direct, I only want to show you that a lot is possible - things we would never expect in our fear filled world.
Regarding lawyers, the first lawyer I consulted was the big name in respect to LGBT rights and such. The appointment with him was very disappointing but with my second try I found a very nice lawyer in my region. She is really supportive and gave me hope in the initial phase of the separation from my wife, that we can make it.
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I just seem to be incredibly unlucky in general, my experiences with solicitors, therapists, doctors have all been less than 100% positive. The first time I ever mentioned my gender issues to anyone was about 15 years ago when I spoke to my (then) GP. Who laughed at me. "But you're a 23 stone bloke with a beard!"
I'm looking at getting a "private" phone, I already get accused of deliberately locking my work phone (which automatically locks due to my employer's security policy) and to be honest I rarely use my personal mobile any more. It's just easier that way.
I've used the "booking day off work" trick a time or two, managed to get away with it then but still conscious of having to be careful. But if it comes to it, that's an option.
So many familiar situations that you have I have also had. Came out to my wife two and a half years ago with the same results that you experienced, so the subject was never discussed and we lived in a self induced truce. Then this summer I was accidentally outed by a phone call that my wife had taken. Just prior to that happening I had finally made the decision to come out to my PA and also seen a therapist that was gender certified to try and get better control of my dysphoria. When confronted by my wife when getting home, I realized that this was the time and place to finally put everything to rest and let everything be known. The result was not what I expected to say the least, after she learned that I had seen a therapist and explained to her what gender dysphoria is and that it is something that we are born with not a fetish like many believe. That I did not want to leave her, that I loved her and that I wanted her to continue to be a part of my life it was if the wall that had built up between us no longer existed. Explained to her that many of my feelings of anger, bitterness, and lack of patience were all part of the dysphoria experience. Told her that I was seriously considering the start of HRT and many of those things would be eliminated or at least reduced by doing that. To my utter shock she was totally receptive to it. The things that were key for me was the fact that I had seen a dedicated therapist for gender dysphoria, that I had expressed my love for her and did not want to leave her. The other thing that was of relief to her was that I am starting on HRT only, and am not going to socially transition. I offer you this only in that they were helpful in our relationship going forward. I can only hope that they might be helpful for you. Another thing that you might find helpful for you, is start adding womens clothing to your wardrobe, there are many things that you can wear that will not out you but will make you feel better when you are wearing them. About half of my clothing is womens jeans, shorts, sweaters and tops that I can wear out and feel so much better about myself. Keep discussing things here, you have many like you here and we all have a open ear. Hugs
Quote from: Denni on August 19, 2016, 09:17:35 AM
So many familiar situations that you have I have also had. Came out to my wife two and a half years ago with the same results that you experienced, so the subject was never discussed and we lived in a self induced truce. Then this summer I was accidentally outed by a phone call that my wife had taken. Just prior to that happening I had finally made the decision to come out to my PA and also seen a therapist that was gender certified to try and get better control of my dysphoria. When confronted by my wife when getting home, I realized that this was the time and place to finally put everything to rest and let everything be known. The result was not what I expected to say the least, after she learned that I had seen a therapist and explained to her what gender dysphoria is and that it is something that we are born with not a fetish like many believe. That I did not want to leave her, that I loved her and that I wanted her to continue to be a part of my life it was if the wall that had built up between us no longer existed. Explained to her that many of my feelings of anger, bitterness, and lack of patience were all part of the dysphoria experience. Told her that I was seriously considering the start of HRT and many of those things would be eliminated or at least reduced by doing that. To my utter shock she was totally receptive to it. The things that were key for me was the fact that I had seen a dedicated therapist for gender dysphoria, that I had expressed my love for her and did not want to leave her. The other thing that was of relief to her was that I am starting on HRT only, and am not going to socially transition. I offer you this only in that they were helpful in our relationship going forward. I can only hope that they might be helpful for you. Another thing that you might find helpful for you, is start adding womens clothing to your wardrobe, there are many things that you can wear that will not out you but will make you feel better when you are wearing them. About half of my clothing is womens jeans, shorts, sweaters and tops that I can wear out and feel so much better about myself. Keep discussing things here, you have many like you here and we all have a open ear. Hugs
It's unfortunate that my wife still seems to be in a state of denial. It has been suggested elsewhere that I should wear "female" undergarments under my "male" clothes to help suppress my "maleness", but I know what reaction that would garner were she to discover what I was doing. I won't go into detail having already received one slap on the wrist for language, suffice to say she has accused me of raiding her wardrobe for sexual purposes.
I suspect that my marriage may be in its death throes, my wife has made it abundantly clear that if I have any feelings for her then I will comply with her wishes and I don't know how much longer I can continue to bury my own feelings. I'm already consumed by self loathing, every time I see myself in the mirror I see someone I detest, I never get chance to explore or express myself, my mind is constantly racing and I sometimes worry that I'll do something I may regret later.
What feelings can you have towards her if she is treating you like this? What feelings does she have towards you, how does she express them?
Hugs and all the strength you need!
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Quote from: Thessa on August 19, 2016, 09:56:25 AM
What feelings can you have towards her if she is treating you like this? What feelings does she have towards you, how does she express them?
Hugs and all the strength you need!
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She claims to still love me... But the words are rarely borne out by the actions. She's quite happy for me to work a 10 hour day then come home and cook and clean while she's on EBay and Facebook. My feelings towards her? I don't know, it depends when you ask. I certainly don't feel loved... But she manages to blame that on me, if she felt loved she'd be more willing to reciprocate... So I try, but my best isn't good enough then I feel resentful. I'm confused, to be honest.
I found a quote a few weeks ago and it was resonating with me. Someone posted that the moment he knew was, when a friend told him that: "I think you love her, you just don't like her."
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160819%2Fc26eb8772ad2106e0af8dcd0c0a7aaa6.jpg&hash=babc6800f90ed681338195d25337461bba6ffb98)
I came to the same conclusion, with the difference that any remaining love was gone since her cheating.
Our values became so different, like work ethics, responsibility towards family, etc.
It looks like you have also very different values, based on what you wrote.
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My diagnosis - Stockholm Syndrome
If it is any consolation, I have the feeling from all that I have heard of your wife, (somewhat biased but it's all I got) is:
A) She will not leave you anytime soon
B) She loves how things are for her, being set for life with a perfect patsy
C) Has some "Standing" among the community and her friends, so that anything that does not appear to be a textbook marriage, in their eyes, is to be avoided at all costs
The bigger question is how did you two ever hook up together to begin with? Was it her putting her hooks in after your first marriage? An attempt to restore "Normalcy" before those 'Certain feelings and Thoughts' started to bubble up too much if they didn't already?
You seem to be in search of a solution that will be perfect for all your problems. A solution that is not filled with unknowns, or tears. A solution that will not make your life any worse then it is now, IMO - if that is even possible.
So far I haven't seen one thing about her or the situation in general at home that brings you joy. Forget all the trans stuff, which right now is a lever both your wife and you are using to prevent any change; Why are you There? Even during the worse, actually most frustrating, of times my wife and I may have had in the past, there were plenty of reasons we both had to work on 'The Us'. There seems to be no 'Us' in your marriage, only a 'Her'.
If you did indulge yourself a bit by wearing panties, what can she that is any worse then she is doing when you aren't? Think that you are a some sick pervert? Well, she already does. Call you one? Ditto. Threaten to leave and drag that out in open court? She will drag that out anyway no matter if you wore them or not. A divorce case is only going to come about if you leave her. She sure is not going to mess up her perfect life.
Just for a moment think and consider how can she make your life any worse? Then ask yourself why you are helping her to.
I don't know any more. I lie awake at night wondering if there's a way out. All I know is, I stay for the sake of my 10yo daughter, it worries me what would happen if I weren't here. I've tried so many times to answer back, to stick up for myself, but something inside stops me, if only I knew what. I've been told several times I'm spineless, useless, a coward... probably I am.
I'm sorry if anyone thinks I'm wasting their time.
It's a very difficult decision to make and many of us took a long time to come to a decision. There are many reasons for not coming out and transitioning but people who are uncomfortable with it are welcome here. This board is not about forcing you one place or another but instead it's about helping you find happiness. What that means to you, only you can answer but we are here to help you find it.
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 11, 2016, 10:51:45 AM
I've been agonising for some time over posting this, in view of past experiences I don't know what to expect, but here goes anyway.
I'm 51, married with a 10yo daughter and 16yo stepson. My wife made it clear from an early stage in our relationship that she didn't trust me, consequently I rarely go out alone and have no real "physical" friends to speak of. I'd kept my feelings about my gender under wraps until last year, when at the prompting of a couple of people I told my wife that I had transgender leanings. To say she didn't take it well would be an understatement, we had 2 weeks of silence, accusations, recriminations, and ultimately it was made clear to me that my "issue" is Not To Be Spoken Of.
I have at various times joined (and subsequently left) any number of internet fora, I seem to have a knack of annoying people somehow... unfortunately whenever I open up to anyone about my problems the only suggestion anyone can come up with is "leave", but if I lost my daughter I would literally have nothing. I know I'm stupid for putting up with it (been told enough times) but I just have to keep going-I've always been the "cool" one, the one who has to be strong for everyone else, but I have nobody to lean on myself.
Then of course when I can't take the "advice" people offer me, they lose patience, stop communicating with me, my self loathing grows, and I become more and more desperate until I end up deleting everything in a fit of depression.
Sorry to have rambled on so, hope I've made some sort of sense.
Do you know if your mother was prescribed DES during gestation. If so you may have battling hormones. Des was banned in 1971. It was prescribed for miscarriages and stillbirths The problem did not solve the prescribed problem. Further DES Sons, depending on when the synthetic hormones were administrated in the process.About wk 10. And the hormones were administered numerous times at 3000 - 4000 times the effective dose, As a result DES son bodies form by testosterone and the brain develops under the influence of estrogen. You may be arguing a point that is not your fault. DESACTION.ORG DES Sons.
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 20, 2016, 05:45:46 PM
I don't know any more. I lie awake at night wondering if there's a way out. All I know is, I stay for the sake of my 10yo daughter, it worries me what would happen if I weren't here. I've tried so many times to answer back, to stick up for myself, but something inside stops me, if only I knew what. I've been told several times I'm spineless, useless, a coward... probably I am.
I'm sorry if anyone thinks I'm wasting their time.
You just may be all those things. But we are judges of how we choose to spend our time not you.
I know the symptoms all too well. I Do Not Deserve..... Fill in what ever you want. ALL Shame and guilt speak. We grew up in a world, in a time when being ANYTHING other then John Wayne was.... a character flaw at best. Wanting to be Myrna Loy... Well don't even go there!
And... What makes you think that your 10 y/o daughter is at risk? The I am married to a sicko pervert thing?
My wife will gladly tell you what happens to children growing up in such a household as yours. It is not a pretty picture. How/Why she is as sane as she is I chalk up up to the "Wolves dropped you off at the door". TBH 10 y/o kids are far from innocent as what we were at that age. It is far too sad to contemplate. She already knows things are Far from right and have seen it so for almost as long as you have. Perhaps longer.
If you document what a psychologically abusive bitch your wife is, 10 y/o kids are far more knowledgeable of the world then you suspect. Just why would your wife have primary custody? Because you are some perverted sicko? That is you talking. Shame, Guilt, Internalized transphobia. Some justified for sure. Most..... just demons that haunt us. Worse, demons that cripple us.
Putting aside the entire topic of transgender-related issues for a moment, you have what appears to be a very unhealthy, possibly emotionally abusive marriage. You say that you are enduring this marriage for the sake of your daughter. But I what to ask you: how is living in such a bad marriage a good thing for your 10 yr old daughter?
You should either get divorced, live separately, or make mutual, serious, concerted efforts to repair your marriage relationship. Maybe that means going to couples counseling together. Something needs to change in your marriage. Living in misery and depression is not doing your daughter any favors. You need to be happy and healthy in order to be the best parent you can be for your daughter! She deserves the best version of you!! :)
Don't worry about wasting anyone's time. At least for me it is that I see a lot of similarities to my marriage and I try to help as far as I can. In the end it's only your decision what you will do or not do! I know how it feels to be in an household with wife and kids but still feel lonely. I'm sure that my daughter was also feeling lonely with her mother most of the time staring at her phone browsing Facebook and other things.
I know that my little girl is hurt by the separation of her parents but I know that staying together would have damage her more in the long run. My marriage was beyond repair but as others wrote, first try to fix your marriage - if it's possible - you need two people to see the issues and both need to have the will to make thing better again.
My first daughter is already nineteen so quit out of the picture (but still hurt and disappointed about her stepmothers behavior) my second daughter is ten years old and also very disappointed about her mother (she knows and see a lot more than I did at her age). As Joanne and Emily mentioned your daughter will also see more than you think and make up her own mind.
My daughter expressed her will to stay with me a couple of month ago (my wife and I talked about 50/50 in the beginning) which I never would have imagined that this would happen. I'm a much better parent (still a lot room for improvement) but now that I have the burden of my wife from my shoulders (sorry to express it that way, but this is how it feels like) I can grow in so many aspects of my life and enrich the life of others around me.
I hope that this makes sense in some way.
Btw: I'm currently on vacation with with daughter and it is so much fun to sit in the evening and doing our nails together.
If someone would have told me this one year ago I would have never believed.
Believe in yourself and your relationship to your daughter!
Take care,
Thessa
Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk
You're not wasting anybody's time here. I'm in a similar situation. My partner's emotionally abusive too, but it took me a long time to figure it out. Yesterday was an emotional roller coaster but for the first time I started sticking up for myself. I'm not sure if you have social anxiety like me, but that causes me to think everyone's going to judge me and that I'm a burden that wastes everyone's time. Social anxiety can be paralyzing and cause you to back down and keep everything to yourself -- which can make everything so much worse. I don't have much advice to give but I wanted to let you know that you're not alone. I'm sorry you had to deal with other people putting you down when you were reaching out for help.
Quote from: WarGrowlmon1990 on August 21, 2016, 04:11:58 PM
You're not wasting anybody's time here. I'm in a similar situation. My partner's emotionally abusive too, but it took me a long time to figure it out. Yesterday was an emotional roller coaster but for the first time I started sticking up for myself. I'm not sure if you have social anxiety like me, but that causes me to think everyone's going to judge me and that I'm a burden that wastes everyone's time. Social anxiety can be paralyzing and cause you to back down and keep everything to yourself -- which can make everything so much worse. I don't have much advice to give but I wanted to let you know that you're not alone. I'm sorry you had to deal with other people putting you down when you were reaching out for help.
Sounds familiar. I just feel that I'm wasting people's time, I even got that impression when I was undergoing counselling. I find it incredibly difficult to stand up for myself and so just keep quiet so as to not rock the boat. The only outlet I have for my feelings is on the net and even then I feel as though I'm being judged.
I even went so far as to join Facebook in order to communicate with people, but that just seems to feed the self loathing and inadequacy, I see other people who are "out and proud" and feel useless by comparison, I want to chat to people but I just seem to get lost in the mass, then I post stuff basically as a cry for help and end up getting slated (again) as "attention seeking" or similar.
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 20, 2016, 05:45:46 PM
All I know is, I stay for the sake of my 10yo daughter, it worries me what would happen if I weren't here.
Consider this: what would it be like for your 10-year-old daughter if
your wife weren't there? Because that's one of the potential outcomes if you were to speak to a solicitor and start planning for your future. Especially if she's being abusive towards you: you're far more likely to get sole custody if you can prove a pattern of malicious abuse on her part... and even if you don't get sole custody, you're still likely to get at least joint custody. There's nothing about being trans that makes you an unsuitable parent.
Consider what the current situation is like for your daughter. Is she happy? Does the dynamic between her parents provide her with a safe, loving, happy, nurturing environment? Or is that something you could better provide as a single parent? Wouldn't you be happier spending time with your daughter without your wife getting in your hair? Wouldn't your daughter be happier spending time with you without her mum having a go at you and/or her?
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 20, 2016, 05:45:46 PM
I've tried so many times to answer back, to stick up for myself, but something inside stops me, if only I knew what.
'Answer back'? 'Stick up for myself'? These are not things one should have to do with a spouse within a loving marriage. These are things you do with bullies. Or your parents. If you feel you need to react like this, it's because she's bullying you - as I'm sure you'll agree. Or perhaps she's treating you like a child, as some women are wont to do.
The thing that stops you from fighting back is most likely low self-esteem. Perhaps the world has told you for so many years that you're not worth defending, so you've learned not to even try. I'll get to that in a bit.
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 20, 2016, 05:45:46 PM
I'm sorry if anyone thinks I'm wasting their time.
Nobody thinks you're wasting their time. This is a support site, and we're all here to support each other. Including you. You deserve precisely as much support as any of us.
BTW I agree 100% with everything Joanne said in her reply. Your wife is using you as a cash cow so she can lead a cushty life at your expense. I doubt she loves you - at least, not any more (sorry) - and she's only in it for whatever she can get out of it. That's not a failing on your part, so please don't think of it that way.
Joanne got me thinking: you said you left your first wife for your current wife (presumably an affair?): this may well be the reason why she's never trusted you; why she emotionally abuses you; and why she's so threatened by the possibility of your transition. I don't know all the ins & outs of that situation, but is it possible that she saw you as a good provider to your first wife and decided she wanted some of that action? I note she already had a young son at that point and I'd imagine she may have been struggling to make ends meet, so she may have been looking for a partner who would comfortably provide for her & her son so she could sit back, relax, and do what she really wanted to do (this business of hers).
Of course, if it's true that you had an affair with her to end your then-marriage, she'll have insecurities over the possibility that you'll do the same to her. Hence the emotional abuse: the more down-trodden you are; the more insecure you are; the less self-esteem you have - the more difficult it becomes for you to pluck up the courage to dump her for someone who could offer you more than she has to offer. Which means she keeps hold of her cash cow, and she gets to take out her aggression and frustration on a non-threatening partner who'll take whatever she wants to dish out just to keep the peace. Win/win, as far as she's concerned.
That's a classic abusive relationship. Please, whether you're ready to leave her yet or not, please do leave her as soon as you're ready. It will help you enormously in the long-term if you were to make notes of exactly what she does or says to hurt you, every time she does it. Also note whether any of the kids were present (especially your daughter) and the effect it had on them. You could keep it as an online diary (create a Gmail account, and use the Calendar to note each instance - you can even link this to the Calendar app on an iPhone so you can record it on your locked private phone). Just update it after each instance, e.g. by popping off to the loo & updating it there. ;)
I challenge you to do this for 3 months, and then at the end of that period go back through the diary and look at how many times she's hurt you. I bet you'll be surprised how often it happened, and what sort of things are repeatedly done or said. Then ask yourself: if this was happening to a friend or loved one, what would you advise them to do? Well... that loved one is
you, so take your own advice.
If you keep your records ticking along, then when things finally come to a head you'll have built up a large body of evidence showing a persistent pattern of her abusive behaviour & the harm it causes both you and your daughter... and she'll have nothing but 'he sometimes likes to wear my knickers!!1!!', which isn't much to go on really, is it?. So you will have a much, much stronger case than hers when it comes to court. And if you keep your cool, calm head whilst doing so, you'll be far more likely to get sole (or joint) custody of your daughter... and then she too can escape this hell.
And you'll be free to start fully exploring your female side, and who knows where that might lead? Either way, you'll be free to discover it for yourself.
I have continued to follow your thread along with posting a reply previously. I suggest you read the meaning of a true relationship, you and your wife obviously do not have one. Second suggestion, it is time to put on your big girl panties and pants, and show your wife that their can be two bitch's in your relationship and stand up for yourself. Cowgirl up, it is time you took control of your life, you will be better for it and so will your daughter.
A couple of things, first I went through a very similar spiral with my ex and we never got to the question of gender (it was accusations from her of infidelity, none of them founded on anything more than my wanting friendships). We were pretty classically codependent and ironically she was the one who wound up cheating.
A lifetime of chronic low level depression became acute in response to this and I managed to grow substantially as a result as she chose divorce. Addressing depression and self image has been key and one of the first things I learned was that I'm trans and had had no clue as it was masked by years of abuse. As a survivor of abuse I was also a ripe target for my ex's hypercritical treatment. I wish for my kid's sake that gender had come up then but I wasn't ready and by the time I even realized I was trans that relationship was dead in all but the legal divorce.
My current relationship has had its difficulties around gender but those have worked their way out and allowing myself to be trans without guilt was the first step. Being finally - 20 years later - may well be the best cure for depression, however there were other issues that also needed addressing and probably needed to come first.
A few concrete things for you:
Your spouse has absolutely no rights to know about your therapy. If you both agree to do joint sessions then she gets to be right there but that's about the relationship. Your therapy is about you and seeking a therapist better suited to what you need could be best.
For many people there's no better solution to dysphoria than addressing its roots. If you need to cross dress maybe you can do so only at work. If that's not workable, then maybe you need to simply put your heel down and tell her what you choose to wear is not her business. It's your body, I'm hesitant to suggest confrontation but when all other options have been exhausted then being simply assertive is necessary (and to reasonable people this isn't confrontational).
Seemingly more radical but probably in fact easier would be to get onto HRT. Many of us find that our response to estrogen is the final seal on knowing the path we need to follow. Of course this means back to therapy or possibly your physician for a referral to a gender therapist. Again, your medical treatment is your business and yours alone. When I started (weekly intramuscular injection) I simply did it at work where I was fortunate to have a laboratory with a locked door.
You can start on a low dose of estrogen, probably also wanting to block testosterone or just start out with a transitioning dose. I'd say the main downside would be if this is really what you need, going off of HRT isn't easy. I had considered doing only a couple of months to evaluate, by then I was already seeing some breast development and I couldn't have stayed in a stealth mode for longer than 3 months. Of course a low - non transition dose could let you do this for a long time.
"I'm not a lesbian" is a pretty real thing and seems to be the first thing many of us hear. Easier to solve if you're not monogamous (we are not) but ultimately relationship for many people isn't only about sex. Ironically as I moved toward transition and especially after starting hrt, sex for me became less about a shared orgasm and more about a route to intimacy. That's not something I'd have imagined a decade ago, it's not an unhappy discovery.
"I'm not a lesbian" on the other hand can also be a code phrase for social discomfort which is to say transphobia and / or homophobia. I don't have much sympathy on that. In fact the most recently I heard that phrase was on letting my gf know I need to pursue transition. Ironically, she had lectured a friend quite recently on trans / homo phobia and not let me get a word in edgewise.
Lastly, your daughter may be better off with you separated. I know my daughters are.
Welcome! Is this the person who called me on the phone a few days ago?
Quote from: Bob W. on August 11, 2016, 10:51:45 AM
I've been agonising for some time over posting this, in view of past experiences I don't know what to expect, but here goes anyway.
I'm 51, married with a 10yo daughter and 16yo stepson. My wife made it clear from an early stage in our relationship that she didn't trust me, consequently I rarely go out alone and have no real "physical" friends to speak of. I'd kept my feelings about my gender under wraps until last year, when at the prompting of a couple of people I told my wife that I had transgender leanings. To say she didn't take it well would be an understatement, we had 2 weeks of silence, accusations, recriminations, and ultimately it was made clear to me that my "issue" is Not To Be Spoken Of.
I have at various times joined (and subsequently left) any number of internet fora, I seem to have a knack of annoying people somehow... unfortunately whenever I open up to anyone about my problems the only suggestion anyone can come up with is "leave", but if I lost my daughter I would literally have nothing. I know I'm stupid for putting up with it (been told enough times) but I just have to keep going-I've always been the "cool" one, the one who has to be strong for everyone else, but I have nobody to lean on myself.
Then of course when I can't take the "advice" people offer me, they lose patience, stop communicating with me, my self loathing grows, and I become more and more desperate until I end up deleting everything in a fit of depression.
Sorry to have rambled on so, hope I've made some sort of sense.
You remind me of my father. He stayed for the kids. In the end, as one of the kids, I don't know that that was the right answer. Especially the younger ones got really messed up emotionally. Even partial custody probably would have been better. Why do you assume straight off that you would lose custody? Does your child hate you? At 10 years old she will have a say in family court as well.
I suppose in your mind you have made your bed. Fine. Lie it in. Make an eight year plan. Of course, that's a darn long time in dysphoria years. But you need to make it out alive if you care about your child.
I have a coworker who basically married a sociopath. He avoided the situation by being a workaholic but that didn't cure anything in the end. He finally ended the relationship when his so-called wife had an affair with one of his son's friends. He was totally devastated by the end of his marriage and his wife made his life hell in family court for a while until the judge got fed up and things stopped going her way. He was ruined financially but has picked the pieces back up AND reunited with his kids. Oh yeah, at first they wanted to live with "cool mom" but even teenagers see through people after a while.
There is life after this relationship. You will be a better person for it and you won't have to live with this depression and self hatred. That's all I can say. You may have to learn how to bury your own trans feelings if you want to stick this out because thinking about being trans is not going to carry you through eight years of self denial, my friend. You need to have such big important stuff going on that you never have time to think about dysphoria. Of course, it's hard to do that and stay balanced and in your kids' lives the way your kids surely want you to be. So I don't recommend this course of action. But can you survive this way? Yes.
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 22, 2016, 03:22:24 AM
I even went so far as to join Facebook in order to communicate with people, but that just seems to feed the self loathing and inadequacy, I see other people who are "out and proud" and feel useless by comparison, I want to chat to people but I just seem to get lost in the mass, then I post stuff basically as a cry for help and end up getting slated (again) as "attention seeking" or similar.
It's very difficult in this world to be out and proud and many trans people don't even try. Being secretive about being trans is pretty common. You are already stressed to the max and are just protecting yourself from more stress you don't need. I probably seem out and proud to some people but I frequently fail to say anything to strangers or stick up for trans stuff in social situations. It just all gets to be too much because it feels like my worth as a human being is on the line. I can and do fight but I can't just fall on my sword and be a martyr for others. It's completely fair to not be the poster child and banner waver.
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 19, 2016, 10:09:44 AM
She claims to still love me... But the words are rarely borne out by the actions. She's quite happy for me to work a 10 hour day then come home and cook and clean while she's on EBay and Facebook. My feelings towards her? I don't know, it depends when you ask. I certainly don't feel loved... But she manages to blame that on me, if she felt loved she'd be more willing to reciprocate... So I try, but my best isn't good enough then I feel resentful. I'm confused, to be honest.
WT*, my dad used to do that too. My mother has narcissistic personality disorder and is a user. I got robbed out of having a father. I could only spend time with him while he was up late at night repairing stuff in the house (after cooking dinner and cleaning up ... oh, and shopping for groceries or doing milk runs ... and cleaning baby diapers by hand and whatever else horrible job got dumped on him). My father sees it as duty before all else. But I am angry. Why was the quality time I got to spend with him so few and far between? While my mother sat on the couch all day eating, watching TV, and bossing us around. The irony? I'm grown now and barely have any relationship with my dad. I'm sure it's hurting him. It hurts me that it hurts him. But he still lives with mom and she still tries to control access to him. And even when I do talk to him, we hardly have anything to talk about. Because we didn't have enough of a relationship then. Yes, I knew and felt my father's love. But I didn't have
him. And I've never seen what kind of person he can be outside of my mother's asphyxiating shadow.
Don't be my dad. Don't do that to your child, Bob. Seriously!
This is my story:
It can be a spouse, a parent, a friend, a sibling. But so many trans women have one person in their life who is an absolute obstacle to their transition. It's only after the obstacle has been removed that one can realize how utterly pointless the struggle to meet their needs was.
And it's always the same message. "There's something wrong with you."
There is nothing wrong with you. There is something wrong with someone who can't or won't accept the real you. The person you are when you go to bed at night and the person you are when you wake up in the morning.
But when you are inside of that relationship, you don't have the ability to look back at it and see it for what it really was.
A transition is all about time. In the words or brother Mick Jagger, "Hours are like diamonds, don't let them waste."
Quote from: Jane Emily on August 22, 2016, 05:16:50 PM
This is my story:
It can be a spouse, a parent, a friend, a sibling. But so many trans women have one person in their life who is an absolute obstacle to their transition. It's only after the obstacle has been removed that one can realize how utterly pointless the struggle to meet their needs was.
And it's always the same message. "There's something wrong with you."
There is nothing wrong with you. There is something wrong with someone who can't or won't accept the real you. The person you are when you go to bed at night and the person you are when you wake up in the morning.
But when you are inside of that relationship, you don't have the ability to look back at it and see it for what it really was.
A transition is all about time. In the words or brother Mick Jagger, "Hours are like diamonds, don't let them waste."
All my life I've had people telling me there's something wrong with me, starting with my family, school, relationships... my counsellor wasn't a deal of help tbh... Maybe the suggestion of an 8 year plan is feasible, it'll give me something to aim for which is feasible... In 8 years I'll be 59, I'll be able to retire with a decent occupational pension, and hopefully I'll still be reasonably healthy... Food for thought
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 23, 2016, 05:06:51 AM
All my life I've had people telling me there's something wrong with me
***hugs***
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 23, 2016, 05:06:51 AM
All my life I've had people telling me there's something wrong with me...
TBH, later in life, (Young adult onward) I was the biggest "Are you Nuts?" party.
Early on my wife would ask the rhetorical question; "Who in their right mind
WANTS to be a 50 y/o woman?"; then followup with with a long laundry list of why nots. While she wasn't and still isn't thrilled, she also knows I don't really have a choice in being trans. I can only do what I can to manage my condition in order to do more then just "Survive" as that lifeless, soulless "Thing" I used to be
Quote from: JoanneB on August 23, 2016, 06:41:15 PMWhile she wasn't and still isn't thrilled, she also knows I don't really have a choice in being trans. I can only do what I can to manage my condition in order to do more then just "Survive" as that lifeless, soulless "Thing" I used to be
My wife still seems to think it's some kind of perversion which can be cured... Her cure involves never talking about it and never accepting that it's there. If I could take a pill to make things right-one way or the other- I wouldn't hesitate...
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 25, 2016, 03:12:41 AM
If I could take a pill to make things right-one way or the other- I wouldn't hesitate...
Wow! You just described the plot of The Matrix - the epic transgender-themed film by transgender sisters Lana and Lilly Wachowski. Have you seen it? If not then
definitely check it out.
My first wife did leave me some 37 years ago. We were married 3 years and dated for 5. But it was not because I came out to her. It was because I didn't and she found out about me. See I ignored her because I was in love with somebody else. Myself. I love to dress up and admire myself in the mirror. I have always felt different. That is the prevailing opinion of most the ladies here. I know I didn't get to choose. It was predestined. I remarried and my new wife and now my old wife of 31 years was informed early on in our relationship and she didn't accept it so much as tolerate it. We had two kids. I had pretty much repressed my desires for 17 years as we raised our family. About 4 years ago the desire came back and I resumed dressing. In April, in a desire to find out why I would allow the love o my life to leave me so many years ago. I went to the therapist for the 6th time. But this time I revealed my sexual preferences, No not those sexual preferences. The ones that apply to my gender dysphoria and how I perceive myself to be female in a mans body. I was finally able to explain to my ex. I came out totally to my wife and kids. If I got any kind of push back it was because the wife didn't think I should have told the kids. But they were fabulous. Long story short. The therapist issued her letter to the MD and 6 weeks later I began taking Estradiol and have been on it for 10 days now. For the relief from my own mind it has been great, No more hissing in my head. I am at least I believe I am more outgoing. No real body changes as I already had boobs due to taking Spiro for a heart problem for 25 years,but that's ok I am really seeking peace of mind rather than having a slammin body worthy of male attention. I really don't care if I pass. I am seeking a higher standard. Am I accepted.
Dawn,
Your personal history is moving, demonstrating the struggles we face and finally a path to overcome them. Your final conclusions are key: it's not about the clothes, a striking figure, a pretty face, or even being passable in public. It's about being true to yourself and those around you, living an authentic life with peace of mind.
This thread should be archived. It contains incredible wisdom that will benefit many future readers.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 25, 2016, 03:12:41 AM
If I could take a pill to make things right-one way or the other- I wouldn't hesitate...
I would probably give it a toss since I wouldn't know which way I'd like to end up. Which puts me in the same boat I am today. I know too much. I know too little. Then there are the days I think maybe "Ignorance is Bliss" which is followed by seeing miserable cis people in action.
Maybe there is a reason why the movie "Harvey" really hit me as a kid and is still one of my top movies of all time. "Take a pill and be Normal" vs not taking it and being .... The what is left to the viewer
Don't know why I feel so down today... nothing extraordinary has happened... just been overwhelmed by a sense of inadequacy again. Maybe it's because I've been thinking too much about it being 2 years on Thursday since I had the opportunity to be Cathy.
Maybe I'll take some time away, try and fit into my "assigned gender role" a bit better. Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to reply.
Online, we can call you Cathy, that's not a problem at all. Yes it's a little living vicariously, but if it helps you feel better about yourself (a little), then that has to be worth a shot.
It's very hard, when we don't feel good about ourselves, and it's very easy when we have been made to feel bad about ourself, for any emergent confidence to be stripped away. It can take very little to reinstate beliefs about unworthiness, and a lot of effort to rebuild them, heaps of emotional work.
I lived with a mantra of 'you're not trying hard enough', 'you're hopeless', 'you're useless' ,'you're lying', and 'you're wrong' for 20 years. It's taken me a further 20-some years to work out just how abusive that was, and I am still living with the ramifications. I still don't feel worthy of any of my success, and I struggle to start anything, because in my mind that tape still plays, and I don't want to 'not achieve'. It still doesn't take much to make me feel a fraud, and retreat back to a place where I feel ok(ish) enough to be able to function.
We will always be here to listen, support and encourage you in thoughts and words; please don't forget.
Sno
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 15, 2016, 03:27:11 AM
I'd like to change but every time I try, something inside seems to stop me. If there's an option for comfort without change I haven't found it yet...
HI,
I just read through your post and wished to say, I"m sorry you're not getting the exploring time that I feel you may need, as in dressing to relief the discomfort and see how you feel. Is there anything you can do that you haven't tried to help with your wife's feelings towards this?
Marie :)
I want to emphasize Sno's point. The people on this site have been understanding and supportive without exception to me, not to mention sage-like with their advice. You are at the right place.
Get to feel at home here. Build some confidence and comfort knowing you will not be cruelly, only constructively criticized, that you can have catharsis as needed when times are difficult.
You are welcome here.
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 23, 2016, 05:06:51 AM
All my life I've had people telling me there's something wrong with me, starting with my family, school, relationships... my counsellor wasn't a deal of help tbh...
This is kind of my story. I was always wrong, and it was my fault for not being whatever they considered "right." It did a lot of damage that I'm still struggling to deal with. Fortunately, I somehow knew that I had to get away from the family and the hometown I grew up in as soon as I could, which turned out to be age 18. Getting away didn't fix my problems, but it did mean that I wasn't getting constantly retraumatized any more. I'm 63, and still struggling to see what they did wasn't okay, that I don't have any obligation to defend or justify them.
For me, accepting that I am trans (in my own way, of course) has unlocked a lot of other issues. But it has also helped that I'm seeing what I went through growing up as trauma, as long-term continuous trauma, worthy of the designation C-PTSD, and I'm seeing a therapist who is trained in dealing with trauma.
But it shouldn't take a trauma specialist to help you see that all the "you are no good" messages are BS. And to help you see that what your wife is doing is very, very not okay, that leaving wouldn't mean that there is something wrong with you (if anything, the opposite), and maybe that leaving is the best thing you could do for all concerned. And if they are any good, they should be able to guide you to someone (a lawyer?) who can make sure that if you leave, you are protected and your relationship with your daughter is protected.
FWIW, I didn't leave my marriage until I realized that I was hurting my children more by staying (mainly because I was fading away and wanting to die) than by leaving. By leaving, I was able to make a stable home where they could feel safe. Leaving hurt my kids, too, but not as much as the things I did trying to make things work with my wife.
"Fraud" just about sums up the way I feel. I keep being told I ought to "go for a makeover", or "make time to dress", or "make time for myself"... That's a bit like my erstwhile therapist who told me to "learn to love yourself" without giving the first clue as to how...
I've tried so hard to get my wife to accept that my "issue" doesn't change how I am, but it's clear that she believes it's some kind of perversion which can be "cured" by ignoring it. She had a strict Catholic upbringing and I think that reinforced her seeing everything in black and white... I also think if it weren't for my income funding everything, including the latest in her stream of "business ventures", I'd have been out.
I get the feeling I'm wasting people's time because I've been told as much in the past. Only a couple of weeks ago I was told that I should stop asking for help if I have no intention of acting on it because people are getting fed up of me. That coming from someone whose wife knows of and condones their activities...
If anyone does feel I'm wasting their time please say so and I'll go away.
Cathy,
I read all of this thread this morning and feel so sorry that you're having to endure this. I am in very similar circumstances but it is clear that the issues you face are far more challenging.
It is clear that your marriage has many issues which, although not caused by your feelings, are exacerbated by them. Many others have given you advice on this so I don't want to go over old ground other than to say, for your own sanity, it's important that you take charge.
There are two pieces of advice I'd give you:
1. It's OK for you to be Cathy. No-one currently calls me Amanda in 'real' life and I really think you should contact the administrators to change your user ID. If only in this commiunity at present, allow yourself to be who you want to be as the vital first stage in all of this is to remove the self denial. I am presuming that Bob is short for Robert so why not Cathy Roberts?
2. You are not wasting anyone's time by posting here. I have only been a member of this community for a few weeks and have been humbled by the extent and quality of advice on offer. It's enabled me to rationalise a lot of how I feel in my mind and the realisation that many, including you, face the same doubts, worries and challenges as me has given me a lot of inner strength and helped me see the way forward more clearly. Speaking for myself, the opportunity to give advice is my way of giving back to the community in return for all the help they have given me and, even though I am still new to the community, the gratitude I have received from others has helped my own belief in my credibility.
I hope that you will soon start to see the light but, in the meantime, post as much and ask as many questions as you like!
Amanda
I believe there is a typo in Amanda's point 2, and I'd like to repeat you are not wasting anyone's time.
The choice for action or not, is yours alone.
You are a welcome part of the community, with valuable contribution for others who may be considering similar choices.
Sno.
I had several accounts as "Cathy" on various fora, I deleted most of them earlier this year because, well, I felt that Cathy was dead and buried. The feelings, the urges, don't go away... The clothes, shoes, makeup, wigs, went in a charity shop, or a bin, or a clothing bank. The "support network" got fed up of me and disappeared. I used Bob as a first name because, well, anyone who is familiar with the 1980s comedy "Blackadder 2" will get the reference.
I just feel as though I'm going round in circles... I get annoyed with myself so I'm not surprised in the least that other people get annoyed with me... Every forum I've joined, every attempt I've made to reach out to people, to try and make friends, has ultimately resulted in me feeling worse for whatever reason. I always seem to attract people who concur with my parent's attitude, that constantly pointing out my shortcomings will make me want to try harder...
Cathy,
That is a normal (if expensive), repeated pattern of behaviour, that you'll see many times over here..
i think you're going to fit right in.
Sno. (edited to correct autocorrect fail.. )
Quote from: Sno on August 30, 2016, 03:35:01 AM
I believe there is a typo in Amanda's point 2, and I'd like to repeat you are not wasting anyone's time.
Sno - thanks for spotting this which was a rather unfortunate error too. I have now corrected it and am sorry if it caused any upset.
Cathy - I can only speak as I find and this forum is full of wonderful people quite happy to give unconditional advice and support. What I think you don't realise is every post of yours is also helping others if only to prove that they are not alone in their struggles so keep posting and sharing your thoughts and fears with us. We've all thought the woman within had gone for good at one time or another (or, to be more precise, every time she is taken to the clothing bank - I just hope the new owners of several pairs of gorgeous stiletto pumps feel as good in them as I did) but, guess what, she keeps coming back and the more you try to control her and tell her what to do, the more she rebels and asserts herself (it's a woman thing, I think!). It's important that you don't interpret robust advice with exasperation, though, particularly when that advice seems to come over and over again ('see a gender therapist' and 'be honest with yourself and your spouse' are common themes on this site, mainly because they are both very sensible things to do).
I think you need to draw up an action plan/strategy for yourself. Start with what you really want and would do if you didn't need to consider anyone other than yourself. This may be full transition or just occasional crossdressing but be totally honest with yourself. Then think about the situation around you - how far do you think you could compromise and still feel at peace with yourself - this is the hard part as, for example, you're having to weigh up whether over-compromising to save your marriage is going to make you less happy than living in a situation where the relationship breaks down and all of the baggage that comes with that. Then start making your implementation plan (and make sure you stick to it!).
It's not easy being TG but for every person like you or me who is currently struggling with our demons, there is another person on this site who has achieved some form of inner peace by moving to a point on the TG spectrum that works for them and people around them. The great thing is that it is a spectrum not an all or nothing thing which means that the solution does not have to be full surgical transition.
Keep on posting!
Amanda
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 30, 2016, 02:49:07 AM
"Fraud" just about sums up the way I feel. I keep being told I ought to "go for a makeover", or "make time to dress", or "make time for myself"... That's a bit like my erstwhile therapist who told me to "learn to love yourself" without giving the first clue as to how...
This therapist made a really nice point. I can't analyze within detail but from the posts you wrote transpires you need lots of self-empowerment and self-esteem.
Also, from what you say I can catch your wife is being really toxic to you. Doesn't sound like a healthy relationship: all stuff has to be discussed, if not its going to be a disaster. Communication is key.
Really difficult to love yourself if whenever you try to be yourself, your expected-to-be soulmate is going to deny your reality and refuse to talk about it.
Just my two cents.
PS: And please, don't apologise about if we feel you're making us waste our time. Anyone here is free to read and post, no apologies. Be free and don't be sorry about it. Anyway, one thing has to be said; usually after reaching certain point, dwelling again again on the same stuff is useless and even harmful for yourself. When the time comes, action needs to take place.
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 30, 2016, 03:48:37 AM
I just feel as though I'm going round in circles... I get annoyed with myself so I'm not surprised in the least that other people get annoyed with me... Every forum I've joined, every attempt I've made to reach out to people, to try and make friends, has ultimately resulted in me feeling worse for whatever reason. I always seem to attract people who concur with my parent's attitude, that constantly pointing out my shortcomings will make me want to try harder...
I've had bad luck with forums too, Cathy. I mean, this forum is the first trans forum I've used but in the past when I've reached out for help online, people would just assume I was trying to get attention or they'd just ignore me. I personally haven't experienced being treated that way from another trans person, but I have heard many stories about it. I've heard terms like "Truscum" and "transier than thou" are used to describe people like that. I don't know how they can invalidate another trans person like that, seeing as they know
exactly how it feels to have their own identity denied. It's like they believe there is only one true way to be transgender and they tend to hate on non-binary individuals a lot too. It's hard to let go of the past, but the important thing is you've found this forum. From my experience not one person has been mean or invalidated me as a trans man. In fact, this is the only place where people see me as the individual I truly am. I'm in a similar situation and I'm very unsure if I'm going to leave my partner or if I'll end up on hormones or getting any kind of surgery. One thing that has helped is coming on this forum to either vent, try to help others or just talk about anything to other trans people. It might not seem like much, but while you're in that stage of being unsure of what to do, this place can help out so much. Being worried about your kid is a big factor and I know how that is. I sometimes find myself kept up at night from anxiety, just terrified at the possibility that my kids will end up rejecting me and being transphobic. One of the last times my partner and I had a conversation about my gender, he "warned" me that the kids may resent me. That hurt worse than a slap in the face. But what he failed to realize is that any of the kids could end up being trans too. That's one of the biggest things that's kept me going. And even if they're not trans like me, I'm gonna do as much as I can to teach them to be kind, respectful and accepting of all people. Has your wife been teaching your daughter closed-minded values? Even if she has, your daughter is still only 10. That can be a pretty flexible age and kids can be very open-minded.
Cathy,
I hope you are getting the message: there is a lot of genuine love here ad it does not come at premium or with strings attached. If you are honest, willing to open up to the members of the forum you will be accepted here.
One thing I learned from spending some time in Asia with some Buddhist friends is the concept that it is not the destination that is the goal, it is the journey. Also, the 4 Noble Truths of Buddhism begin with "Life is suffering...".
I am not personally a Buddhist but this teaching made a substantial impact on how I view life. It is unquestionably wise. The realization that you are TG is the first step in a journey, one assured to be painful and teeming with opportunity to suffer. The key is not to simply wallow in the suffering, helpless. As you have read, post after post goes something like: "Cathy, your story is nearly identical to mine..." or "I know exactly how you feel..." or "Before I decided to <decision, intervention,plan, etc.> I thought there was no solution, no end to this cycle of <problems with my wife, dysphoria, purging, etc.>. We all ARE there with you in some way or another. None of us is "complete" or "finished," Arguably, this state is only achieved at the point we stop evolving and growing--death--back to the point of the goal being navigating a path through life, not reaching a final goal.
You will find that advice will spring from all directions here. Don't think for a minute that those offering the advice have it all figured out or do not themselves struggle in one way or another. We all do. It is that shared struggle that knits us together and results in greater strength as a whole than the sum of each of us alone. We understand the phenomenon, and the existence of the "bad day." I, for one, had one of these hideous days about a week or so ago finding myself feeling hopeless to find a way to cope with the dysphoria, unable to see a way to improve my situation. It may sound corny but what I am about to say is heartfelt truth: My sisters on the forum ran to my rescue, offered support and advice, lifted me up when I was really in the pit. I cannot adequately express my appreciation for what was done for me; done without qualification or expectation of something in return other than my ongoing effort to progress in my struggle with the TG beast. I've suffered silently with my TG problems for a long time (I'm 58 years old) and for the first time experienced empathy and a sense of community with those who actually understood my plight. At the end of that bad day after reading numerous members posts, I wept with appreciation for the caring and affection I was shown.
So, don't continue to worry that you are wasting the forum members' time with posts that may not seem to read like a Gant diagram for a construction project. The work we need to do on ourselves is difficult and usually does not follow a nice tidy linear path. There will be ups and downs, advances forward and ground lost. In those darker times, know you have sisters here who will happily listen and try to our wits' end to help, doing so without need for apology.
Quote from: aaajjj55 on August 30, 2016, 03:12:57 AM
1. ... I really think you should contact the administrators to change your user ID. If only in this commiunity at present, allow yourself to be who you want to be as the vital first stage in all of this is to remove the self denial...
...
You are not wasting anyone's time by posting here...
I agree Amanda. You should let one of us help you change your name here. I had not had anyone call me by Joanna for a long time. However, my wife(occasionally), my therapist and some locals I have met in a support group are now doing so. It all started with being Joanna here. Done with Cathy? How about Kathy or Kate(I have a GG friend that will argue that Kate is far superior to Cate or any other variation), Katey, KateyDid...
This is a place for support not worrying about being annoying or wasting people's time.
Lastly, I had serious problems with, "Where do I start", on loving myself. I am not done yet but moving forward. I have found things in Joanna I like that are part of me. Not all of me is loathsome. I can be worthy. Start small with the stuff you like and doing things you like.
You are in a tough spot. I wish you love, acceptance and a smoother journey.
Keep talking as needed.
With warmth,
Joanna
Cathy, you aren't wasting anyone's time. We are all here voluntarily, as a sort of floating 24/7 support group. We're here for you. We're here for me. It's support.
I think many of us, especially us late bloomers, have been through the expensive purge cycles and found ourselves not so cured after all more than once. This isn't at all unusual. The Self-Doubt Monster takes many forms, and just keeps coming back to wrap itself and us in a blanket of depression. That's when we come here.
Here's where we can find others like ourselves, perhaps a little farther along on their individual journeys, to warn us of hazards, guide us to safer places for ourselves, and share some inspiration, humor, and life with us. It helps. It really helps.
You're not really going in circles. It's more of a spiral outward, like how the Yellow Brick Road starts out. Yes, you've been past these places before, you've seen these things, but you also remember how they worked out or didn't last time around, and you nudge yourself past them with a slightly different outcome this time. You are exploring, tiny steps, but exploring how you want your journey to go. Eventually you'll choose a path. We are here for you.
I don't think anyone can give us detailed instructions on how to deal with the personal issues in our lives. Folks can suggest steps to try, but each of us has to decide within ourselves whether to try this or that step, and work out how to achieve it within our own life. This forum, like any support group, can help with that, by listening to us as we speak or type our plans, and perhaps offer a little constructive help along the way.
Please continue to use the forum, and we'll continue to help!
- Michelle
Thank you all, I've logged on this morning to see all the replies to my post and I'm on the verge of tears, but in a good way. So many times I've been on fora, and logged off feeling as though I've had a kicking. I've been accused of ignoring advice, of attention seeking, of not wanting help... If only I'd found this forum a few years ago things may have taken a different turn.
Quote from: Michelle_P on August 30, 2016, 12:56:39 PMI think many of us, especially us late bloomers, have been through the expensive purge cycles and found ourselves not so cured after all more than once. This isn't at all unusual. The Self-Doubt Monster takes many forms, and just keeps coming back to wrap itself and us in a blanket of depression. That's when we come here.
You're not really going in circles. It's more of a spiral outward, like how the Yellow Brick Road starts out. Yes, you've been past these places before, you've seen these things, but you also remember how they worked out or didn't last time around, and you nudge yourself past them with a slightly different outcome this time. You are exploring, tiny steps, but exploring how you want your journey to go. Eventually you'll choose a path. We are here for you.
I don't think anyone can give us detailed instructions on how to deal with the personal issues in our lives. Folks can suggest steps to try, but each of us has to decide within ourselves whether to try this or that step, and work out how to achieve it within our own life. This forum, like any support group, can help with that, by listening to us as we speak or type our plans, and perhaps offer a little constructive help along the way.
Please continue to use the forum, and we'll continue to help!
- Michelle
I'm glad someone doesn't think I'm going round in circles... I often wonder myself.
I spent most of the bank holiday weekend working in the garden. I've spent so much time doing housework, washing, ironing, that the garden has been neglected, and the conifers are pushing the fence down... I'm conscious that my dogs may get out... 3 days of hard work has made a difference, but meanwhile the ironing pile has grown, the dust is thicker, and my wife and stepson spent much of the weekend staring at computer screens. As always happens.
This is yet another circle I can't break... Eventually I'll get so frustrated looking at all this that I'll cave in and spend yet another weekend washing, ironing, cleaning... I know I'm stupid for putting up with it but, well, I can't see a way out...
You aren't alone in doing this, either. I have a similar situation, where I am doing the cleaning, cooking, dishes, and so on. I suspect I'm really doing this as a gender role thing, a poor substitute for expressing my identity more directly. (I'm not supposed to present as myself at home, while anyone else is here. Classic shaming.).
So, I'm almost going in circles on this, too. Housework vs yardwork vs being myself... Almost. I'm trying to tease out some solutions for myself, and I'm moving forward with HRT and electrolysis. Yes, the wife knows about this. I've discussed it with her, and she has tolerated it so far. Electrolysis won't make a noticeable change, as I've never had facial hair on display. HRT hasn't made an immediate noticeable (by others) change, but I haven't been seen without a top on since I started. (Now Tanner II-III, and 36A. Better and faster than I had expected.)
One way or another, whether by male fail, or my showing up here dressed as myself, I'm spiraling out of this rut.
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 30, 2016, 02:49:07 AM
I've tried so hard to get my wife to accept that my "issue"...
If your happiness depends on what somebody else does, I guess you do have a problem. Richard Bach
Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours. Richard Bach
Suffice it to say, I wish I had your schedule. I might actually get more then 3 hours sleep a night and not worrying about coming home from work finding a wife with a cut throat or her head splattered across 3 or so backyards. And those are just the minor points that keep the local wine merchant profitable.
All of us need to juggle and balance what is important to us. I sacrifice a lot of my needs for the greater good of the needs of "The Us". "The Us" is a two way street. I know, I'm told, I'm thanked profusely by my wife for all the things I do to keep things going in a positive direction. You appear to have no "Us" only a "Me" and that me is not you, it is her.
Is it any wonder that you seem to be going around in circles when you are in a rotary passing up every road except the one you've been on, the one you see directly ahead? No unknowns. No, what do I do if it's not the right road.
Albert Einstein defined "Insanity" as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
I came to the conclusion several years that "I KNOW What Does Not Work". I was stuck in that same rotary you are. I kept telling myself the same things over and over again expecting This time it will be different.
As hard as it may be to believe, I am NOT a big fan of change. In fact I abhor it in my personal life. Surety = Safe. Unknown = Fear. Fear = Pain? Since I love a good irony, the irony here is in my professional life, I constantly balance risks, often taking the "Throw it all out and start all over" approach. It's obvious this circuit never worked. Bandaid after bandaid applied until it resembled nothing like it was supposed to be and made no sense, proved that. It clearly did not work. Time for a Do-Over. It wasn't until I realized that in my own life I kept on applying one elastic plaster after another to "Fix" or otherwise make things better. And.... That plainly was not working
We all need to stop the severe bleeding when we are hurt. Clearly you are hurting, and have been for a long time.
What, albeit small thing, outside your comfort zone, can you change?
Which Pain is Worse?
I suppose that makes me insane then.
I don't know any more what I can change, tried so many times, I lie awake at night looking for a way forward but everything I think of will ultimately end up hurting others and so the cycle of guilt starts again.
It was 2 years ago yesterday that Cathy was put away for what turned out to be the final time. It wasn't easy yesterday, I tried to keep myself busy at work, but all day I just felt kind of empty. I genuinely don't know what to do, I can't see a way out. I feel inadequate, useless, worthless, pick your own adjective. I try my best but my best is never good enough somehow. Hope I can get through today...
When something like this happens, somebody will get hurt. If you come out, those close to you will have to find a way to deal with it. If your remain in the closet, you will be hurt. You will find there is no joy in life and you may become cold and insensitive to others. This will break up your marriage just as fast as if you were to come out. The difference is staying in the closet will make it happen latter after you have given everybody another reason to dislike you.
The best solution I see is for you to be true to yourself and be open to helping the rest of the family joining you. Your family may still reject you but it will be because of their decision not to adapt to life.
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on September 02, 2016, 01:08:42 AM
It was 2 years ago yesterday that Cathy was put away for what turned out to be the final time. It wasn't easy yesterday, I tried to keep myself busy at work, but all day I just felt kind of empty
I disagree. Cathy wasn't put away for the final time... because if she was, you wouldn't be reaching out to other trans people for a lifeline two years later. Cathy has always been there, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week - she's just been hiding behind a facade, getting more desperate and frustrated with each passing hour.
That's why yesterday was so difficult for you: you thought you could get over all of this if you just tried hard enough, but you've discovered that it's simply not possible to do so. And until you address it properly, you won't get over it by yourself. Untreated gender dysphoria is kinda like a volcano: the turmoil can be hidden below the surface for a while but it just keeps churning away & building up pressure, until eventually it erupts in an almighty explosion. I rather suspect that's what's been happening to you (repeatedly): you made a decision two years ago to permanently discard Cathy and try to live your life as 'Bob', trying to convince yourself that if you just push her down hard enough she'll never be able to resurface. But like that seething volcano, she was just building up pressure below the surface until she broke out again recently, which is why you've suddenly become active on various fora again.
I urge you to go to your GP and ask to be put on a waiting list for a suitable GIC. Their therapists will counsel you on all aspects of your feelings - including how to deal with your family - and you won't have to commit to anything unless and until you're ready for it. But you do need to get started as soon as possible. I'd recommend you ask for a referral to Daventry, (http://www.genderclinic.northants.nhs.uk/) as it has the shortest waiting list in your region and has a good reputation. I have several friends who attend that clinic and they all vouch for it. Even though it has a shortish waiting list, that list is still 35 weeks long (they're currently seeing people who were referred by their GPs last November). So why not get the ball rolling?
Plenty of people transition successfully later in life. A trans woman who volunteers at my GIC is 69 years old, and she only transitioned 3 years ago. She's about a million percent happier in her skin than she was before, and you'd never guess she was trans if you didn't already know. She still has a great relationship with her daughters, even though her marriage failed. You're not getting any younger. Why not let Cathy out into the sunshine whilst she's able to enjoy it?
And then instead of feeling sad about the anniversary of putting her away, you can celebrate your re-birthday. I celebrated mine on Monday: 3 years since I started my medical transition, and even though it cost me my marriage, I don't regret it for a second. That marriage was insignificant compared to my right to be free to live as my authentic self.
Dear Cathy
Sorry to hear that things are rather low with you at the moment but remember that when things hit rock bottom, they can only get better.
I agree with the advice that you should seek professional help with this via your GP but, equally, it is important that you help yourself. As I know to my own cost, it's very easy to find excuses but the problem with excuses is that they don't get you any further forward.
I think the first thing you need to identify is what you really want, what would give you inner peace. By this I don't mean 'to have been born female' as, sadly, that is not now achievable for you. However, there are a number of things that are achievable (and, when making your decision, ignore the impact you think it may have on others):
- Full surgical transition including GRS & FFS
- Transition without surgery
- Partial/part time transition (where, for example, you live as female at home but male at work)
- Hormone treatment without transition
- Freedom to fully cross dress
- The chance to explore your gender more fully and move back and forth along the gender spectrum as you desire
- And many others
It is very important for you to be completely honest in this assessment of yourself. There are a number of ladies on this site whose transitions have been stunning and, looking at their before & afters and reading how happy they now are is almost like hearing 'come on in, the water's fine' but there are far more of us struggling to figure out who we are, what we are and what our end point is. Fundamentally, would you feel comfortable in the female role full time? It's also very easy to feel this way when the dysphoria kicks in but do you still feel the same when things are calm? Do you have a picture in your mind of what Cathy looks like and do you like what you see? I know you've been advised to have a makeover from a TG friendly makeup artist but, if you prefer, why not try one of the makeover websites as a start point? You may also need professional help to come to a robust conclusion (and further professional help if the conclusion is transition) but I do believe you can be reasonably confident in your answer.
Having done that, the next question, of course, is what is stopping you? We know your wife is very hostile in this respect but even putting this to one side, from reading your posts, I get the impression that your marriage is not easy anyway. Whether or not your marriage will survive over a long term is possibly conjecture in any event but you have indicated in your posts that it would probably not survive a ramp of of your TG activities, particularly if full transition was the end point. As you are aware from another post of mine, I do have a lot of sympathy if spouses are hostile when they learn of this but that doesn't excuse ongoing victimisation/bullying - put bluntly, if they feel that TG activities are incompatible with the marriage they entered into, they should bring the marriage to a close, not use it as an excuse to make life intolerable for the other party.
I think there's also a danger that our guilt about this 'affliction' causes us to over compensate as a result and give too many concessions. You clearly have to have another conversation with your wife, if not several more, and when you do, I would be inclined to be more assertive in your approach while accepting that she's not going to like what you say. I would also be inclined to suggest that you initially concentrate more on your gender dysphoria and what it's doing to you and your relationship and see if she comes up with a solution rather than just seeking permission to resume activities which immediately places her in a position of power. However, don't forget that she already knows of your dysphoria and, despite everything, has not left you up to now so this does give you some strength in your discussions. We can ask 'what's the worst thing that can happen?' - ironically, breakdown of your relationship would give you the freedom to pursue your dreams so I think that the answer to this is effectively 'things continue as they are now' - in other words the consequence of doing nothing which, as Dena quite rightly observed a couple of posts ago, will probably lead to the breakdown of the marriage anywaty.
I do hope you can find a way to navigate your way through all of this but remember that you need to steer the boat!
Amanda
Quote from: Joanna50 on August 30, 2016, 11:14:58 AM
Done with Cathy? How about Kathy or Kate(I have a GG friend that will argue that Kate is far superior to Cate or any other variation), Katey, KateyDid...
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 30, 2016, 03:48:37 AM
I felt that Cathy was dead and buried.
It's OK to feel that way. Perhaps, as Joanna50 suggests, a new name is an option. To make a fresh start.
To be honest, Jane wasn't my first femme name. But when I came out last year and started living full time, I knew I couldn't go back to <old femme name.> There was just too much old baggage associated with it. <Old femme name> just wasn't able, for one reason or another (fear mostly), to come out and start transitioning. And so she went dormant for many years of painful gender suppression. But one of the great things about transition is that you get to choose the kind of woman you want to be. So I needed a fresh start. And Jane just felt right.
Do you think you could benefit from a fresh start?
Quote from: aaajjj55 on September 02, 2016, 10:12:32 AMI think the first thing you need to identify is what you really want, what would give you inner peace. By this I don't mean 'to have been born female' as, sadly, that is not now achievable for you. However, there are a number of things that are achievable (and, when making your decision, ignore the impact you think it may have on others):
- Full surgical transition including GRS & FFS
- Transition without surgery
- Partial/part time transition (where, for example, you live as female at home but male at work)
- Hormone treatment without transition
- Freedom to fully cross dress
- The chance to explore your gender more fully and move back and forth along the gender spectrum as you desire
- And many others
I think I'd like to start at the bottom of the list and work up, if that makes sense. Cross dressing always felt "right", right from a very early age, as I've said before all my life I've had dreams of doing "normal" stuff but in the female role. It was never really a sexual thing, although in common with others there was an element occasionally followed by the "post ejaculation guilt", but certainly during my first marriage, I used to just sit for hours dressed in her clothes, watching TV or whatever. As to whether I'd ever fully transition, I honestly don't know...
QuoteIt is very important for you to be completely honest in this assessment of yourself. There are a number of ladies on this site whose transitions have been stunning and, looking at their before & afters and reading how happy they now are is almost like hearing 'come on in, the water's fine' but there are far more of us struggling to figure out who we are, what we are and what our end point is. Fundamentally, would you feel comfortable in the female role full time? It's also very easy to feel this way when the dysphoria kicks in but do you still feel the same when things are calm? Do you have a picture in your mind of what Cathy looks like and do you like what you see? I know you've been advised to have a makeover from a TG friendly makeup artist but, if you prefer, why not try one of the makeover websites as a start point?
I thought I'd deleted all my "Cathy" photos, then a couple of weeks ago I found a memory card with some on. They are however at least 2 years old, and I've lost a lot of weight since then, but somehow I look at them and see "lardy bloke in dress". I've tried one or two of the "virtual makeover" websites but somehow I'm never really happy with the results.
QuoteHaving done that, the next question, of course, is what is stopping you?
In no particular order; fear, lack of support, absence of self respect and self confidence. People on here have been very kind, but I don't have a "physical" support network. I never go out alone socially, I don't really have a life outside work and home, and my wife is hostile to say the least towards me going anywhere. I know it's down to her insecurity, I think she knows I'm even more insecure and plays on it.
QuoteAs you are aware from another post of mine, I do have a lot of sympathy if spouses are hostile when they learn of this but that doesn't excuse ongoing victimisation/bullying - put bluntly, if they feel that TG activities are incompatible with the marriage they entered into, they should bring the marriage to a close, not use it as an excuse to make life intolerable for the other party.
But she won't, that would mean her having to go out and work for a living...
QuoteI think there's also a danger that our guilt about this 'affliction' causes us to over compensate as a result and give too many concessions. You clearly have to have another conversation with your wife, if not several more, and when you do, I would be inclined to be more assertive in your approach while accepting that she's not going to like what you say. I would also be inclined to suggest that you initially concentrate more on your gender dysphoria and what it's doing to you and your relationship and see if she comes up with a solution rather than just seeking permission to resume activities which immediately places her in a position of power.
Her solution was "don't ever mention it again..."
QuoteHowever, don't forget that she already knows of your dysphoria and, despite everything, has not left you up to now so this does give you some strength in your discussions. We can ask 'what's the worst thing that can happen?' - ironically, breakdown of your relationship would give you the freedom to pursue your dreams so I think that the answer to this is effectively 'things continue as they are now' - in other words the consequence of doing nothing which, as Dena quite rightly observed a couple of posts ago, will probably lead to the breakdown of the marriage anywaty.
I do hope you can find a way to navigate your way through all of this but remember that you need to steer the boat!
Amanda
I don't know what to do any more to be honest. I don't think I've had more than a handful of half decent nights' sleep in the past couple of years, I lie awake for hours every night trying to see a way forward, to rationalise the situation, to plot a course... the more I try, the less I understand myself, the more frustrated I become. As regards steering the boat, I'm still trying to find the wheelhouse...
Cathy
This is going to be a shorter reply than last time due to other pressures - please don't interpret it as exasperation!
First and foremost, it's your life and it's important you control it, not someone else so you are going to need to take charge.
It sounds as freedom to cross dress will satisfy your cravings, at least in the short term (but googling 'late onset transgender' is an eye opener and you do need to be prepared for the eventuality that you will feel the need to go further). Freedom to do what you want in private without involving others certainly seems like a reasonable compromise to preserve the marriage if that's what is important to her.
You say that she won't end the marriage as she'd need to go out to work but you could (or at least threaten to). This would at least force her to answer the question 'which do I find the least unpalatable, a crossdressing husband or having to work for a living)'!
As regards 'don't ever mention it again', I think it's important to remember that we are increasingly understanding that being transgender is not a 'dirty little perversion' but a physical issue caused due to brain misdevelopment in the womb possibly in some cases caused by hormone based drugs taken by the mother during pregnancy. Like any other physical condition, not talking about it is not going to make it go away (and like many other physical conditon, many of us wish we didn't have it) so I think you have to bite the bullet on this one.
Hard though it may feel for you, I think your priority now is to regain control of your life; it is fundamentally wrong that you feel unable to go out and socialise or to at least put your cards on the table regarding the torment you're living with. What you're living with at the moment is a form of domestic abuse and that's not acceptable. If, as you suspect, your wife will not terminate the marriage, this is the best bargaining chip you have and it's important to start using it in the same way that your wife would if the tables were turned.
Good luck,
Amanda
Well, if you've stayed up all night every night and can't see your way out, maybe it's time to admit (a la AA) that you have exhausted your resources and can't do it on your own any more. You so-called partner is not helping you. You need a friend. Or a therapist. Someone who can help you see clear. Someone you can confide in because your wife doesn't want to hear it.
You're a person with value and worth. It's right for you to reach out to others and to have friendship and support. Your wife, just by virtue of being married to you, doesn't have the right to cut you off from every other human being.
In the end, you run around afraid of displeasing her but you can't please her because you can't be somebody you're not. Also, she seems like an easily displeased person. Let go of the need to live up to her impossible demands. So she's unhappy. Isn't she unhappy already?
Quote from: AnxietyDisord3r on September 03, 2016, 06:11:27 AM
Well, if you've stayed up all night every night and can't see your way out, maybe it's time to admit (a la AA) that you have exhausted your resources and can't do it on your own any more. You so-called partner is not helping you. You need a friend. Or a therapist. Someone who can help you see clear. Someone you can confide in because your wife doesn't want to hear it.
I saw a therapist for 8 months, and to be honest it didn't help. She was adamant that I wasn't trans per se, I just wanted to be my sister as she was quite blatantly my parent's favourite and I merely crave(d) affection. Friends-I don't seem able to keep them...
QuoteYou're a person with value and worth. It's right for you to reach out to others and to have friendship and support. Your wife, just by virtue of being married to you, doesn't have the right to cut you off from every other human being.
In the end, you run around afraid of displeasing her but you can't please her because you can't be somebody you're not. Also, she seems like an easily displeased person. Let go of the need to live up to her impossible demands. So she's unhappy. Isn't she unhappy already?
It seems so. I haven't done any washing or ironing for a fortnight to see what would happen... The washing basket is now overflowing, the ironing pile is a mountain. But her main concern is getting a new sewing machine so she can make her "artworks"... Talk about misplaced priorities...
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on September 05, 2016, 03:45:08 AM
I saw a therapist for 8 months, and to be honest it didn't help. She was adamant that I wasn't trans per se, I just wanted to be my sister as she was quite blatantly my parent's favourite and I merely crave(d) affection.
There are Therapists and then there are Crack Pipe Therapists. I suspect you spent 8 months with one of those that see GD as something that can be "Fixed". When I was a kid I envied my (older) sister. I cried when mom told me in no uncertain terms that "Boys do not wear skirts" as I stood there in my sisters school outfit looking forward to the first grade. In school I envied all the girls, all treated far better and cut a lot more slack then the boys. Naturally I had to make that disdain the teachers had for boys well earned.
Then there was the countless nights, wishing, praying, deal making with God, to wake up in the morning as a girl, from about the age of 4 onward. The desire always there to be a girl. Knowing I wasn't like other guys. To me "Getting into her panties" had a whole different connotation. I always envied other women. Always my first thought being "That's a cute outfit" or "I wish I could wear something like that", or "I wonder where she got that?". Finally the sense of peace and harmony gained from just seeing some semblance of a woman looking back at me from the mirror.
I wish there was a way I could convince myself I am not trans, or "somewhere on the spectrum" I spent a good 40 years trying to tell myself I am not. I spent parts of these past 7 years trying to tell myself all that I have been doing is crazy, pointless, or makes no sense. Except I know what those 40+ years of wishful thinking got me. I got to be a lifeless soulless 'Thing' that existed only to do what was expected.
You would benefit from seeing a TG friendly, or understand therapist. A good way to learn of a decent one and "Physically" connect with others like yourself is through a local TG support group. Firsthand recommendations are far better then random shots in the dark or a lot of pre-interviewing the therapist to see if "Transgender Clients" means more then I once had a class I think when it was mentioned.
The greatest benefit this would be is the chance to "Man-Up" (as ironic as it may sound) and do something small for yourself. You saw a therapist once before. Sure the wife grilled you afterwards. Same will happen this time. The last things she needs or wants is you gaining some self esteem or self respect, or being every so slightly assertive. Worse a therapist telling you to leave that toxic marriage as quickly as possible as your only hope. When she grills you simply tell her it's about the trans stuff and you know she doesn't want to hear anything about it. Smile and walk away :P
Cathy
I've just read back through all of your posts in case I've missed something and, to be honest, I find your situation heartbreaking as you seem to have backed yourself into a corner from which you see no way of extricating yourself. However, as I think you realise, the only person who can get you out of this predicament is you.
I'm no expert but you appear to be exhibiting the signs of clinical depression; if this is the case, then you need to see your GP as a matter of urgency and open up to her (the use of the female pronoun was deliberate here as I think you need to see a female doctor for this one to help you open up on the underlying TG issues). Remember, even if this is the same doctor your wife sees, the doctor is bound by strict confidentiality rules and cannot discuss your issues with her. If the doctor is any good, it will put you on the path towards therapy; if not then find another doctor. This issue is critical for you and the longer you leave it, the worse things are going to get for you. Also, you do not need your wife's permission to do this!
Parallel with this, you need to address the situation with your wife. You have a few options:
1. Go 'stealth' - in other words lead this side of your life in secret. I know that you have already explained the difficulties of this but I know that many others on this site have lived similarly for periods of time and I'm sure there will be plenty of good ideas to help you.
2. Tell her what you are doing but don't seek approval. This one will undoubtedly make living at home unpleasant but I think it is anyway.
3. Tell her your plans and seek her approval via compromise. You've already said that her idea of compromise is giving you no concessions at all but, as I said on a previous post, you do have a number of bargaining tools that can help you.
4. Leave her and live your life as you want to. Self explanatory and here you have a simple decision - which is better - to suffer with her or live as your true self without her (not forgetting all of the other issues that come from a failed marriage which have to be factored in to the equation)
5. Carry on as you are at present. I'm sure this is the least acceptable option to you but, unfortunately, unless you take action, this is the one you're stuck with.
You also said in response to a previous post that you're not really sure what you want. Clearly therapy will help but, in addition, I think you should look for a TG makeover salon near where you live and book yourself in for a session. Firstly, this will help you overcome the image of a 'lardy bloke in a dress' that you currently have of yourself and secondly, when it's time to change back, you will better understand the emotions you feel at having to leave the female side of you behind (in other words, are you comfortable with resuming your male persona or do you feel that remaining in the female persona is what you really want). I'm sure you could engineer a day off to achieve this without telling your wife.
You have your daughter to consider of course. Inevitably, the existence of children in the family may have to modify what we do; for many this means that they put thoughts of transition to one side for the sake of their children but, remember, this is the 21st century and you live in Britain where there are discrimination laws on your side. If you were to decide to transition, there is absolutely no reason why you could not be awarded full custody of your child. Granted there are all of the other issues she would face having a TG parent but many do this successfully. Equally, if you find that periodic crossdressing satisfies your urges, she never needs to know.
To close, I sympathise with your plight a great deal but, equally, can see that you are prone to make excuses as to why you can't get out of your current rut which, in all honesty, in the primary reason you are currently unable to move forward. In five years time, it would be great to look back and see how Cathy has blossomed and grown into a self assured woman at peace with herself (regardless of whether she's a full time or part time woman) but for us to do this, you will need to take charge of the situation and not allow others to put you down.
I wish you well and hope that you are soon able to move forwards towards the inner peace you so desperately need.
Amanda
p.s. I'm sure you've already done so but, if not, read the following thread which now runs to 41 pages and describes a situation very similar to yours:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,133631.0.html
Hello person, whatever your gender is and whatever your heart is,
I just wished to give my support to you, in my possibilities.
I am struggling with gender and life as well, but not as you, definitely not.
Being unsure and crying my heart out, knowing it can be worse, makes me a bad person? I don't think so.
Despite all anyone can say to you, the support coming and going, I think we have to remember that both we and them are humans. Limited and blind. Always were, always will be.
Down to us (and with "us" I mean also any person, also no transgender, which is experiencing problems/crisis in zee life), the path is always difficult. For some is damn difficult, for some maybe impossible.
We may find people that accept us, that do not accept us, that do accept, then changes zee mind, and everything in between. Will we do it? No way to know.
There is only the path, and our fears.
Needless to say, our being in in the very deep of our fears.
A big hug, and "vomit out" as much as you can. Do it, don't think you annoy. We are humans, these things is what makes us so. And, until you can, accept others' limits.
Hugs,
Iv.
Thank you all for trying to help. I feel beyond help now, to be honest I feel a fraud. I'll never have the courage to get out, I'll never have the courage to do what people keep telling me I ought to do. I've spent the last hour trying to clean up a tip of a house, and I feel as though that's all I'm worth. I won't take up any more of anyone's time.
Cathy,
Don't leave! Please! We want you here. You have friends here.
Keep the dialogue going. It is not a failure, no one's time is being wasted. This is an ongoing struggle that is difficult for all of us taking time and persistence to prevail.
We are here just to listen at minimum, offering understanding support.
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on September 07, 2016, 05:26:24 PM
Thank you all for trying to help. I feel beyond help now, to be honest I feel a fraud. I'll never have the courage to get out, I'll never have the courage to do what people keep telling me I ought to do. I've spent the last hour trying to clean up a tip of a house, and I feel as though that's all I'm worth. I won't take up any more of anyone's time.
This thread has been ongoing for almost a month. In this thread, many people have voiced their support for you and shared their advice. Many more than that have read your story (2300+ views on this thread alone) . The numbers don't lie. People obviously care. There are about 100 posts in this thread alone which prove that.
Don't give up on us. We're not giving up on you.
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on September 07, 2016, 05:26:24 PM
Thank you all for trying to help. I feel beyond help now, to be honest I feel a fraud. I'll never have the courage to get out, I'll never have the courage to do what people keep telling me I ought to do. I've spent the last hour trying to clean up a tip of a house, and I feel as though that's all I'm worth. I won't take up any more of anyone's time.
Really, you aren't a fraud. Seriously. The deal of the cards during fetal development gave you and many of us a very challenging hand; a hand that can not be perfected, but can be made less onerous; but you have to choose what is right, FOR YOU. That could be as radical as completely abandoning your existing life, to as subtle as carrying a gender neutral purse. There is no wrong answer, just as there is no perfect answer, as long as its an answer that lets you live out the rest of your life with some degree of inner peace.
Cathy
To be a fraud, you need to be dishonest and the title of this thread says it all - 'unsure' - this is about as honest as it is possible for you to be. Everyone on this site has had a struggle, after all we've all been in a position where our emotions are at odds with our physical forms. Some on this site have been through stunning transformations providing us with inspiration and envy in equal volumes. However, the majority of us will struggle on for the rest of our lives dealing with self denial, abuse, rejection, difficulty 'passing' and just wishing that nature had dealt us the right hand.
You and I face very similar issues and a read back through my posts since I joined a few weeks ago will show you what I have been through emotionally. My dysphoria comes and goes; when I joined up here I was emotionally ready to start the path to transition; as I write now, the dysphoria has subsided and I have no desire to transition or to even cross dress. That doesn't make me a fraud (I hope!) but this is how GID manifests itself in me and I know that the feelings will return in the future as they always do. I would also stress at this point my unending gratitude to everyone who has participated in my threads in helping me understand myself, my situation and why I am as I am. Most of all, though, you and all of the other wonderful people on this site have shown me that I am not alone in my struggles.
I know that you have been worried that people will get fed up with you as this has happened on other sites. Please don't confuse robust advice delivered bluntly as people being fed up with you - we all write in different ways but everyone who contributes to any of your threads has only one objective - to help you navigate through your difficulties and find inner peace. Often, others are able to take a step back and see a way forward which you can't.
Finally, please remember that reading, or participating in, your threads helps others - from my point of view it has helped validate my own feelings about my situation and giving advice that has been appreciated has boosted my feelings of self-worth (or, to put it another way, advising others has underlined what I need to do myself if I wish to continue on this journey). If you are finding concentrating on yourself too much to handle, why don't you take a look at the other threads and participate if appropriate? You have a lot to offer this community and I'm sure your advice based on your own experiences would be very much appreciated.
Above all, though, remember that you get one shot at life and have a right to be happy. You didn't choose to feel the way you do but everything from that point on is a choice you need to make and, whatever you decide, I hope that you will be able to look back and feel that you made the right choice.
Please stick around - we need you!
Amanda
Sweetie, do what you can, for you. Even if that is just a tidy kitchen, or a load of laundry.
We do understand, you will always be a part of team Susan, and we'd love you to stay.
Sno.
Cathy,
Amanda's observations are sage-like. This site is really unique in that the members are seriously concerned for one another, trolls are nearly absent thanks to the careful monitoring of Susan and the other moderators of the site. Your experiences on other forums should be forgotten while here.
Amanda hit on a very important point. This site is where the people with GID and dysphoria problems and sober, serious wish to confront them seem to congregate. It is a hybrid of an informal discussion with a group of close friends where you can bring your most difficult problems and loosely, something like group therapy. It is safe in that no one will attack you personally here. Sometimes the advice may be difficult to hear, sometimes to the point of frankly uncomfortable or disturbing. Why, because that is what friends do for friends: be honest. Beware of people who are always offering praise and is uncritical--they are not friends. Friends are true and honest, will be willing to push you a little into territories you might find out of your comfort range, but will at the same time be at your side to help you through the tough spots. They will stay with you in the tough times as well as the good, asking nothing in return other than your friendship and knowing you'll be there for them if the roles were reversed.
To that final point, we want you here for a larger purpose that trancends the struggles any of us endure in day to day life. The sum of our experiences and fact that we have come together as a community of friends with a shared purpose to slay or at least come to live with our demons give us power we do not have individually. The whole is truely greater than the sum of the parts in this case. We want you to contribute to this "whole."
I think you will find that the process of reading and responding to other members posts is very healing and therapeutic for both the reader and the writer. It is the participation that is the critical event. You may not have the perfect answer that solves the problem but you still will be contributing to a solution. Often the solution is simply offering the support and understanding for the other who may be in a particularly dark spot at that moment. I'm at loss for words to express my gratitude for this simple human gesture that had been extended to me by members in some of my worst times. They didn't have The Answer, but they were there for me.
Please hear us: We are here for you. By helping you, we are all stronger.
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on September 07, 2016, 05:26:24 PM
Thank you all for trying to help. I feel beyond help now, to be honest I feel a fraud. I'll never have the courage to get out, I'll never have the courage to do what people keep telling me I ought to do. I've spent the last hour trying to clean up a tip of a house, and I feel as though that's all I'm worth. I won't take up any more of anyone's time.
Cathy,
I wish I could help you understand how many of us feel like a fraud and in different ways. I have always felt like a fraud. It is even the term I have used over and over. In my life, in my job, as a parent. Certainly when it came to trans issues. I didn't really understand what it all was so I just saw myself as a pervert faking being normal. However, even with "faking" I could not fit in. Additionally, I don't think I know anyone who has walked the path we do(whether deciding to transition or not) who does not have major doubts. Look around through the site and archives. The words doubt, fake, false and fraud show up over and over again. I don't think you are so different in that.
I too never thought I would have the courage to face this. Until I was up against a wall and had very few choices left. No choices and the realization that it does not go away. Ever. It may ebb and flow but that realization was part of what led me to realize it was not so much a choice, except to survive.
Don't worry about what you should do. You do have an overwhelming amount of people trying to reach out to you. It can be just that, overwhelming and intimidating. So do what you have to for you. Not what others tell you have to for...? There is no one path. There are common ones but even as it is walked, it is individual. Like us.
If we didn't want you to take up our time we wouldn't let you "take" it. No one is forced to keep answering you. No one has a legal obligation to keep reading you. It is a self incriminating phrase that strikes me as you feeling you are not worthy of all this. That may well be a good first good step(at the risk of telling you something you should do). Find a way in which you have worth. I have always found it hard to love myself. However, I too had to find I was worthy. Worthy of anything positive. You are worthy of your treat(coffee, a good beer, a muffin), your love that others may have for you. I think this is kind of important. Worthy of that clean house... I think you see what I mean.
Steph brings up some good points as does Amanda(thanks for the nice words about the work the moderators do). In particular, group therapy helps not just the one in the current "hot seat". It also helps all. So why would we want you to go away. If you leave, it could mean any of the rest of us could/should. Don't know if that logic makes sense to you or others but it strikes something in me.
You are family. Family sometimes takes time. Sometimes makes choices we would not. However, without sharing any DNA, you have more in common with us than many siblings. We care about family, even ones we have never seen face to face.
Stick around. See what crazy things others are writing about, creating games, helping people in trouble.
I hope it gets easier.
With warmth,
Joanna
Quote from: Steph Eigen on September 08, 2016, 07:07:07 AM
Sometimes the advice may be difficult to hear, sometimes to the point of frankly uncomfortable or disturbing. Why, because that is what friends do for friends: be honest. Beware of people who are always offering praise and is uncritical--they are not friends. Friends are true and honest, will be willing to push you a little into territories you might find out of your comfort range, but will at the same time be at your side to help you through the tough spots. They will stay with you in the tough times as well as the good, asking nothing in return other than your friendship and knowing you'll be there for them if the roles were reversed.
Cathy,
You will never find a better definition of a friend that this offered by Steph who I am also proud to count as a friend. It is sadly a reality that members of this community very rarely meet in the real world but there is, of course, a good reason for that as many of us have to live very different lives than we're able to live here. However, I'm sure that more than a few of us would like to sit down with your wife and explain to her what you're going through and plead with her to cut you some slack!
Some in this community will be strong enough to 'transition' their real world lives to meet their aspirations but, for the rest of us we have to live a life of compromise and struggle. This is particulary so for those of us who are late onset transgender as we additionally have to deal with the ravages of half a century of testosterone, families who may or may not approve, possible loss of livelihood and even just convincing ourselves that we're not perverts. Does being our aspirational selves on this site make us frauds? Absolutely not; we're all in this together and understand both what each other is going through and that, for many of us, there are two sides to our persona, only one which manifests itself here.
Amanda is an important part of who I am but she's not the whole story. I think she has a fully formed personality (strangely identical to someone else I know!), I've got a good idea of what she looks like (although I have a feeling she'd want a bit of work doing on her face and other areas as she's quite concerned about her appearance!) but I don't yet know how she'd cope on her own in the real world and, indeed, whether she really wants to face the real world on her own. What I do know is I wouldn't be the person I am without her as she brings a sense of compassion & understanding which I think would otherwise be lacking.
Let Cathy live and let her live here even if nowhere else - she can gain lots and give lots by being a member of this community and her participation can be as much or as little as she wants. I also understand that she has a friend called 'Bob' and he'll be just as welcome if he feels the need to join the discussion.
We look forward to hearing from you again,
Amanda
Cathy,
Before you make up your mind whether to leave, consider all the generous thoughts offered in this thread. At risk of repetition, this place is the real deal. We are not offering platitudes.
I have only been a member of the forum for a few weeks. In this short time, my participation has revolutionized by entire view of my own situation. I could go through the list of realizations I've had but they would be repetition of the various observations made by my friends and "sisters" I've come to know in this short time participating in this forum. I was overwhelmed by the incredible courage I saw in some who charged onward toward transition with obvious obstacles and seemingly insurmountable challenges and prevailed, pleased with their new lives and happy to embrace the interim suffering and struggle needed to achieve their ultimate successes. I is easy to see these remarkable stories as the initial impressions of what is is to be TG or have troubling unresolved gender issues and what is required of the individual to address them. Looking at these "successes" tended to make me feel as if I were a failure, weak, lacking courage that these others seemed to manifest. As I came to read more of the threads on this site, my view changed. The majority are more akin to what you, Amanda and I struggle to overcome. Are we failures? I suspect not. While one must be true to his/her own self, I think we all understand this must be viewed in a broader context of the practical impact to our lives and of certain critical others involved in our lives. Nothing is simple, lfe is a chaotic (literally, in the mathematical sense) web of complexity and interactions. To ignore these is foolish, not the basis for concluding that one is a fraud. Arguably, it is quite noble to be able to have this insight and not act in a headstrong selfish manner.
On the other hand, recognize that those who transition are driven by a profound need to do so, often quite consciously realizing the result will completely overturn everything in their lives, good and bad. It may lead to loss of spouse to divorce, estrangement of family members, loss of friends, even loss of employment. The need is so great that the decision may be one made in nearly dire situation of feeling unable to continue with life itself without transition. To be certain, these people are courageous and at the same time scared and anxious about the future. Their need is so great that this is the only path they can consider. Other more fortunate individuals may not face a situation as dire as this but deeply desire transition and face lesser obstacles making it more readily achievable. I would hope it would become increasingly easy for genuinely TG kids and adolescents to find a relatively trauma-free path to correct discordant gender and natal sex in the coming years--that is another topic entirely.
At this point in my life, if I found myself living on a desert island alone with no one else to consider or even better, on a lush hypothetical oasis called Susan's Place Island I would certainly transition fully to live as a woman I know I am inside. I would probably have the full array of surgical FFS/GRS, etc. to treat the exterior but I am middle aged, not that concerned about being judged a striking beauty, quite happy with the idea of being an average appearing postmenopausal woman. The main thing for me would be simply being able to realize living day to day life, doing the mundane things of life as my authentic gender. This is not possible given numerous obligations I have in real life. The lush island exists in a virtual sense here on this forum. I can live this part of my life here, have my friends help me think through my challenges and cope. With their help, I made the big step to seek therapy, something I'm not sure I would have had the courage to do.
I advise you to take some time to read the stories of several of us such as Amanda and or even me. There are a thousand others that are in many ways similar. The vast majority of us continue to struggle hoping to find relief without radically dumping lives we've created over a half century of even more. Amanda used the typical term "late onset transgender" which I suspect is probably more correctly termed "late realization transgender." It is never an easy path to follow but in the early stages of life a remake of one's self if in many ways much easier to achieve prior to careers, family, spouse, children, networks of longstanding friends and associates, and on and on and on.
I fear we lost Cathy...
I hope not. Even if things are bad right now having a place where someone will listen can be a big help. I know from experience that being all alone with nobody sympathetic can lead to a deep downward spiral.
So, Cathy, if you are still reading just know that many have been where you are now. We understand and do not want you to leave.
Thank you all. I really don't feel worthy.
My dysphoria comes and goes but the feelings of self loathing are always there. Some days I just want to die.
I've sat and typed out long diatribes over the last 30 minutes, all of which I've deleted because every time I've posted stuff like that before I've been accused of wallowing in self pity.
I've read other people's stories, and feel humble by comparison at their strength and courage. I can't even say "no" to my wife.
I don't know what to do, I can't see a way out and I'm paralysed by fear. I've already walked away from one marriage with little more than a carload of clothes and books and £30k of debt, which took me 9 years to escape from. A fact of which my wife constantly reminds me. I'm useless as a husband, father and provider.
From another forum;
QuoteOh dear... You are getting resigned to your situation instead of trying to improve it. That's not really a good approach is it?
People only get annoyed when you get so negative and just shrug off helpful suggestions instead of, at least, giving them some serious thought or even trying them and reporting back on the result. How much you post has nothing to do with it. It's a self-defeating circle.
You feel bad, post about feeling bad, get helpful suggestions, ignore them because you don't feel that you're capable of carrying them out, feel worse and loop back to the beginning again. That's not a good place to be.
Come on, you're a respectable, intelligent person. You can see what's happening just as easily as I can. If you don't fight for your own corner then sure as anything no-one else will and you'll stay in the downward spiral that keeps you depressed. Some of the others, the ones that you feel are not being nice to you, have got to the point where they say "You have the problem, we've tried to help. Take some advice and sort yourself out now or stay as you are - we don't care any more". Don't you think they might have a point? What more can you ask or they do?
Enough said.
I've been there, paralyzed by fear, not so long ago. It took me to the brink of suicide because I was all alone with it. I'll bet others here could say the same.
That's why we care. Because we know exactly how you feel!
Most of us have a bump in the road that we need help getting over. Mine was different than most as I was an early transitioner and access to resources cost me years to run down. In your case it's fear. You aren't the first or only one to face fear but at some point you will push it aside and start making progress. The question is will you want to do it now or do you want to reenter the closet for a few more years before your discomfort becomes so great it forces you forward. We will help you now or then, the decision is your. If you wish to start now, what is it you fear.
If you don't wish to address it here, a good totally reversible solution would be for you to see a gender therapist but the only way to stop the hurting is to address the problem. Either way, stay with us because we don't give up easy.
Thank heavens, your here Cathy! I am relieved you are back. Please stay with us.
I will repeat what I wrote above. Forget your prior experiences on other forums when here. This is a different day with different people having a quite different outlook. The quotation you offer from another site is not "enough said."
No need to repeat the prior posts in the thread. I encourage you to reread what has been written in this thread to you, considering it carefully. None of us would take the time to spend trying to help if we did not genuinely care. All of us have lives and other obligations but see the value this site has brought to our individual lives, hoping to reciprocate by returning something to the community of like-minded (or similarly troubled) souls. You are worth it!
At some point, you will benefit from seeking formal counseling, probably sooner rather than later given the depth of your despair and sense of hopelessness. You may require antidepressants other drug therapy to relieve the sense of paralysis by fear and sense of futility in order to address the substance of your problems in a meaningful way.
From your earlier comments, I am assuming you are in the UK. The NHS should be able to provide for this need. This site, as much as we DO care is not a substitute for professional medical and psychological care.
Please stay engaged with us here. DO NOT APOLOGIZE for cathartic posts when you feel you need to vent or seek connection with a friendly listener who will offer some modicum of reassurance of comfort in a tough time.
Please stop declaring yourself unworthy of our time. This statement is obviously incorrect to the point of nearly insulting. It implies we are collectively lacking judgement, insight or simply too stupid to ignore you by responding to your posts! This is not the case as I assure you, there are very intelligent, compassionate, empathetic, insightful people here.
Perhaps you are the one in error... did you ever consider that possibility? Perhaps we see something you cannot in your despair. What do wee see? A worthy soul suffering with a difficult situation we all genuinely understand and have personally experienced. Someone we would like to call a friend.
Oof. Cathy, from that post you quoted 'from another forum', I'd say you were dealing with someone a little more self-centered than the Susan's Place folks. I think most of us have seen folks like that before, and know not to take them seriously, but when someone 'walks away' on you when you are feeling vulnerable, it can hurt.
I don't think most folks here are like that. We really do hear your pain, and many of us, myself included, have been in similar situations, and either have been or are currently getting out of them. (I'm one of those, and am trying to spiral out of a bad place by pressing on the 'house rules' to express myself more.)
We can help, if you just stick around and give us a chance!
We're folks who care about others, including you, Cathy!
Dear Cathy
Glad you're still here! I endorse what the others have said and, let's face it, if any of us tire of reading your thoughts, we can just stop reading - there are plenty of others in this community ready to dip in and try to help. Anyway, I'm not tiring and will continue to offer my thoughts to you.
With this in mind, someone I know called 'Dave' (obviously not his/my real name!) would like to offer some thoughts and advice to 'Bob' and so I've let him hijack the rest of this posting.
Look after yourself,
Amanda
Dear 'Bob'
Like you, I suffer from gender dysphoria. Like yours, mine comes and goes. In my case, when it comes I have this all consuming yearning to be like Carol Vorderman [UK TV personality/maths genius (genetic female) in her mid 50s who underwent a stunning transformation through well publicised cosmetic surgery a few years ago]. But here's the funny thing - even if my family came to me and said 'you really should become the woman of your dreams', even if I could be 100% certain that surgery would turn me into Carol Vorderman's twin sister (let's call her Amanda Vorderman!), even if I could be certain that I would fit perfectly into my new world I really don't think I would go ahead. Why? Because my dysphoria isn't that clear cut - sometimes I like being a husband and father and what I really wish for is unattainable - to have been born female. You, I and many of the other wonderful people in this community have been dealt a bad hand in life which we just have to cope with as best we can - if what you feel to be unburdening your problems on others on this site helps you, that's fine by me.
But I think there's an even more fundamental issue at play here. Let's push any feelings of dysphoria to one side - in other words you don't feel, and have never felt, the need/desire to be female. Would your life be significantly better? Would you be enjoying an idyllic marriage with your current wife? Or is the reality that you would continue to feel bullied, put down and a general failure? A marriage is supposed to be an equal partnership and I once read what I think is a great definition of 'love' - caring about someone else more than you care about yourself - unless I misread the situation this is not a feature in your wife's construct of your marriage. However, this is not a healthy state for you to be in, particularly as it affects you emotionally so badly. I'm not a qualified counsellor, therapist, psychologist, psychiatrist or anything else that's relevant here but what I can see is that if you don't do something to help yourself, you'll sink further into the pit of despair and/or have a full scale nervous breakdown.
Please go and see your GP, you don't need to tell them about your dysphoria if you don't want to but you need to tell them about the desparation you're feeling; remember that they are not allowed, by law, to repeat what you've said to anyone else so it will be a safe haven for you. You could also try 'Relate' [UK marriage guidance scheme] - you don't have to go as a couple but if your wife wants to commit to save/recover the marriage, she'd be foolish not to go.
I sense that you're worried about the breakup of your marriage firstly for financial reasons and secondly because you could lose your daughter. You obviously have prior experience of marriage breakup and I'm sure that your wife would put up a pretty dirty fight but that in itself does not mean that your situation would be compromised and certainly would not mean that you would lose your daughter (particularly as the UK has pretty robust anti-discrimination laws in this respect). What I can see though is that you're in danger of consigning yourself to a miserable existence where the choice is either to do what your wife says and feel trapped or fight back and unleash further hostilities. I think your way forward boils down to a simple question - do you want to live the rest of your life with this woman? If you do, then you both need to find a way to make it work; if you don't then you have to start unravelling things and I do sense, from the way you have described her behaviour, that she has far more to lose than you.
So 'Bob', that's my man to man view of things. Please get some help in the 'real' world - at worst it's going to help you sort out the jumble of feelings and emotions that are crippling you and, you never know, it may make your life a whole lot better.
'Dave'
Thank you all for your replies.
I've already tried counselling, and antidepressants... the former left me even more confused, the latter just left me feeling empty. I have tried so many times to sort my head out by various means, the main thing now which keeps me together is keeping busy...
I felt under pressure all my life to be "A Man", to do the "work/marriage/family" thing. But deep inside there's always been this resentment, the feelings bubbling under. Some days they are stronger than others.
At school, I was treated with contempt by boys and girls alike, with one exception... a girl called Cathy who was a couple of years above me, but she was gorgeous, had the loveliest eyes I've ever seen in a human being, she was so kind and actually talked to me without spite or malice in her voice. I didn't want to be an object of derision, and so I tried so hard to do what people wanted, to comply, I knew they were making fun of me much of the time but, if they'd like me, maybe it was worth it... they never did though.
Same I suppose with relationships. My first wife was the first female who actually took an interest in me... it all changed when we bought a house together though, almost as though she had got what she wanted and could stop trying. That lasted 15 years... I discovered in 2000 that she was seeing other men, but I carried on regardless through fear of being alone. I discovered later on that my own sister knew and never told me. That discovery also put my "crossdressing" activities on hiatus, after finding semen stains in her underwear I couldn't bring myself to wear her clothes... left her for my current wife, once again it all started off nicely, this time it all went pear shaped when she got pregnant, I think by that time she had sussed out that with a child to provide for, I wouldn't go anywhere and she could get her own way again.
So here I am, paralysed by fear, whenever I've tried to get help it either hasn't helped or left me even worse off... after my experiences on other TG fora, and on Facebook, I still can't quite get to grips with the difference here. The post quoted in my last post isn't unique, it's typical of the sort of reaction I've received in the past.
Cathy,
I will write more later, limited time available to me at the moment. Two main observations: first, as has been stated again and again, it's a new day, different people, different forum. Stop wallowing in bad experiences past. Easy for me to say is surely what you're thinking, but it is the first step to implement. Let us try to help. Don't drop off the forum. Stay with us on this thread. Second, even if you feel you've failed to find benefit in the past from medications or counseling/psychotherapy. You only truly fail when you cease to make an effort. Stay with it, try a new therapist or a different medication. Do not cease trying to move forward to a better place.
I know this will also be difficult to consider but think through your current life situation carefully. It seems you have had one catastrophically failed marriage now followed by a second well on its way to failure. All this in the setting of your personal and mental situation on disarray. Perhaps you should consider getting your own situation straightened out first, if necessary separating from your wife until things arrive at a more favorable equilibrium, possibly ending this marriage if to toxic to salvage. I have no doubt this seems a insurmountable task to take on at thepresent time but as Amanda pointed out earlier, you might be in more of a situation of control than you realize with her losses probably greater than yours if you were to leave.
Until you control or escape the toxic marriage and hegemony imposed by your wife, it will be difficult for you to make progress. Once again, this will need ongoing effort on your part to muster support from professional therapists and possibly medications. While we will be here for moral support; Susan's, Facebook, other fora are no substitute for the core professional interventions.
So, trust us knowing we will not insult you, belittle you or complain about wasted time. On the other hand, I fear for you if you do not extract yourself at least mentally from your current home and family situation. You need professional to help you navigate these waters.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I second what Steph said. Not all therapists are created equal. Sometimes you have to try a few out before you find one that helps you. Some therapists like to dig up the past and the sessions can leave you more upset than when you started. Sometimes this is therapeutic in the long run but sometimes not. Sometimes you just need someone in your corner, someone supportive who will also gently point out when you're not being honest with yourself. I've gone to see therapists many different times and they were all different. So I would definitely give it a shot again. You're at a point where you feel quite helpless.
If you hated the drugs maybe have them try something in a different class. I'm going to assume you had an SSRI. I found that Lithium was pretty good at treating depression without suppressing my emotions. I've also more recently been on Latuda and while it has annoying side effects it's absolutely nothing like being on an SSRI. See if you can find a provider willing to try something outside of the SSRI class. You may need that extra help just to cope. Psychiatric drugs shouldn't make you feel worse. If they do, it's the wrong drug for you.
Please take our advice on this one. Particularly on the therapist selection and 'flavor' of psychotherapeutic methodology, you need to clarify and reinforce immediate goals to stabilize your acute situation. Usually this is achieved using cognitive behavioral therapy and plain old pragmatic problem solving. In other words, giving you immediate term coping mechanisms and problem solving means to extract yourself from the situation you find yourself in now leading to your sense of hopelessness and paralysis.
Consider us on this forum to be friends offering support and perhaps some of the functions of a group therapy session on demand and with a global representation of knowledgable members who have insight from traveling a similar path.
Repetition is good: I will repeat the high points of our collective advice to you. (1) Seek professional help until you find the right people who will be able to help you. (2) Find the right drugs that will stabilize the acute symptoms do you can adequately cope and begin the process of extricating yourself from your current toxic situation. (3) Do not let your wife intimidate you as you probably have more power to control the situation than she will allow you to recognize. (4) Stay engaged with people who actually care about you on this forum.
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Quote from: AnxietyDisord3r on September 11, 2016, 09:26:24 AM
I second what Steph said. Not all therapists are created equal. Sometimes you have to try a few out before you find one that helps you. Some therapists like to dig up the past and the sessions can leave you more upset than when you started. Sometimes this is therapeutic in the long run but sometimes not. Sometimes you just need someone in your corner, someone supportive who will also gently point out when you're not being honest with yourself. I've gone to see therapists many different times and they were all different. So I would definitely give it a shot again. You're at a point where you feel quite helpless.
The one I saw definitely fell into the "leaving me more upset" category. I felt that I should have known how to cope but I didn't... At some stage I'm going to contact the local LGBT centre to see if they can recommend someone, but their opening hours are limited and I'm dependent on getting a bit of privacy at work. I'll do it though.
QuoteIf you hated the drugs maybe have them try something in a different class. I'm going to assume you had an SSRI. I found that Lithium was pretty good at treating depression without suppressing my emotions. I've also more recently been on Latuda and while it has annoying side effects it's absolutely nothing like being on an SSRI. See if you can find a provider willing to try something outside of the SSRI class. You may need that extra help just to cope. Psychiatric drugs shouldn't make you feel worse. If they do, it's the wrong drug for you.
First lot I had were fluoxetine, they just made me feel empty... I've always loved music, but on those I lost the ability to enjoy it... I also gained weight which I had been battling to lose. I went back to my GP who changed me onto Citalopram, they helped a little initially but after a couple of months I started suffering from insomnia, headaches and impotence. I've tried to manage without for the last 12 months, but evidently not very well...
Fluoxetine is an SSRI and loss of enjoyment as well as flattening of affect is a well known side effect of the members of this class of antidepressants. One psychiatrist friend of mine calls it "Prozac poop-out." There are several other potentially useful classes of drug that may offer you benefit without intolerable side effects. Understand that to a large extent this is a trial and error process based on thoughtful initial educated guesses. If you GP cannot make any headway with you, you are going to need a psychiatrist who benefits from more nuanced understanding of the drugs as bioader experience with their use.
I'm going to try to get in to see my GP next week, been on call this week so I'm reluctant to make any appointments for fear of having to cancel them. I've been overwhelmed by feelings of hopelessness for the past few days, going through one of those phases where everywhere I look, I see stuff that needs to be done and nobody else is going to do it... I'm under pressure at work and at home and just don't feel that I'm coping very well. And the dysphoria is high at the moment too... Got out of bed this morning, saw that lardy middle aged bloke staring back at me again... got to the station to catch the train to a meeting in London and I seem to be surrounded by women, and the old feelings of inadequacy have risen because, deep down, I know I'll never be like them.
Cathy,
I'm sorry I have only a few minutes to write this AM. I will write more later when I have some time.
I'm glad you are taking this step to see your GP. Keep in mind what has been said earlier in this thread, specifically, that you may need trials of different medications until you find what works and very likely under the care of a psychiatrist who would have far more experience with these drugs.
The key is getting the disabling symptoms under control with medications then proceeding onward with therapy once your mind is clearer to make real changes in your life.
Don't lose your nerve! You've got friends here who will try to lift you up when you are down, give you a nudge forward when you need it, gently call you out if you stray from your path toward progress, where ever that leads you.
FInally, don't compare yourself to the multitude on the train or the streets. You are you. You need to become the best version of you you can be. This is all any human can strive to be. Life is a constant set of disappointments and frustrations for people who use some arbitrary external reference point as a touchstone for personal worth or achievement. This is one of the hardest lesson to learn, one that many fail to learn in a entire lifetime.
Let us know how your visit with your physician goes today.
Steph
Cathy
Good to see that you're making positive moves but please make sure you make that appointment with your GP - I'm sure you'll be able to find 101 reasons not to but, as many of us have already said, you do need professional help and this is your opportunity.
Also, don't get too hung up on the 'lardy bloke' image of yourself and don't get too hung up on trying to mentally compete with the women you see. If you do decide to fully transition, hormones and excercise will help a lot, as will surgery if you wish - if you need any convincing, just look at the before and afters on this site and on others such as YouTube and FFS practitioner sites. Some of the ladies are stunning but most just look like ordinary women. After all, what the aim really is here is to be able to look in the mirror and feel comfortable with the person looking back and to be accepted for who you are by the rest of the world. Beauty (whatever that means) may be a bonus if that's important to you but is not a prerequisite.
As regards your heightened dysphoria, from my own experience, it is possible that your situation at home and diminished self-image is a major cause and being able to take more control of these will help you more easily live with it particularly if your dysphoria centres on a craving for the female lifestyle (what Dena referred to as 'social dysphoria' in a response to a post I made a few weeks ago) rather than 'female in a male body' (body dysphoria).
Once again, do make sure that you make that appointment with your GP and make sure that you get a referral to a therapist before you leave.
Good luck,
Amanda
Last week the dysphoria was particularly strong. Every day I get out of bed and see an uninspiring fat middle aged bloke staring at me from the mirror. Last Friday I got to the station to catch a train to London for a meeting and everywhere I looked there were women. And I know that I can never be like them.
I made the mistake of posting on another forum and one of the replies made me feel so tiny...
QuoteIt's your choice Cathy, we can't do this for you, get some courage up and do something or carry on being in a world of xxxx. Do you somehow enjoy being like this? I'm trying to sort out some kind of accommodation that's better than living on a rubbish dump for a Trans girl in Pakistan who's HIV positive, her family have disowned her as well. She still has fight and courage in her when she's facing a slow death sentence, please find some courage as well.
If I could give up my life to help this poor kid I would. I just feel so small and useless. I've wasted my life and I'm too weak to do anything about it. It's made me reconsider everything again, and maybe I really should put up or shut up. Or maybe I am just attention seeking, maybe I do enjoy it subconsciously... I just don't know any more.
What you are feeling is quite natural. I experienced the same feeling for many years.
I stood in a dark and lonely place and having heard of a place of light, wanted to journey there. But the path seemed perilous, winding its way through a fog filled valley where the vision ahead was limited to a few feet. I had heard that monsters lurked in that fog. My imagination elevated those monsters to mighty beasts who lay waiting to tear me apart if I ever set foot in their domain. For a long long time I stood there, wanting to journey forth, but fearing the beasts too much to take a step. Finally the pain of existence in that dark and lonely place became to much to bear and with pain overriding fear, I took the first step. As I journeyed forth I did encounter the monsters. But the imagined fiery dragons turned out to be no more than mongrel rats that were easily kicked aside. Sometimes, if I listen closely, I can hear the roar of a dragon in the distance. They are real, but they are few and easily avoided with some care in choosing my steps. The journey continues and the fog is thinning. Soon I will step into the light.
I am with Deborah and you on this. I remember thinking that I wished I could just give the good I had to help someone like they describe. Someone who deserves it:
QuoteIt's your choice Cathy, we can't do this for you, get some courage up and do something or carry on being in a world of xxxx. Do you somehow enjoy being like this? I'm trying to sort out some kind of accommodation that's better than living on a rubbish dump for a Trans girl in Pakistan who's HIV positive, her family have disowned her as well. She still has fight and courage in her when she's facing a slow death sentence, please find some courage as well.
They are kind of right, but not, at the same time. They are using tough love. I remember thinking about all the number of trans women who have been murdered or hurt for the past few years. I also remember thinking that my luck comes from being a caucasian but without the courage of those women. Then I realized my thought process (so does that from the other forum) has some faulty logic. I can have courage(doesn't mean I'm not afraid). Those ideas are kind of like the old argument from parents that a child should eat their dinner because there are children starving in XXXXX(fill in the blank). It may be true, but all it does make one feel guilty. Most of us are already dealing with shame or guilt of one kind or another.
I like how Deborah phrased "place of light". That is part of what is different for me now. I see that there can be light in one's life. I had not seen that before.
I will say, try to find some courage from all of the forums. Sometimes it is up to you. It is hard. So take a step, experience everything, evaluate, go to therapy. Allow yourself some time to feel down; live in it for a while and write down(or remember, record, whatever..) and share that in therapy. The goal is that soon the harder bits start shifting. It is still hard but you bounce back better(easier?, tough to put my finger on the right adjective). "Place of light". So take a deep breath, gulp back the terror & anxiety(till it is just fear and worry) and step toward the light that can be in your life. With more light, you can see where the monsters are and try to avoid them or where their chinks are...
With warmth,
Joanna
Cathy, you're in a bad place right now. But please know you're not the first, and you're not alone. Many of us have shared this horrible experience. We all started off taking one tiny step, but it may be the hardest step. See your GP. Tell them what's going on. It's so important do do this.
That one small step toward the light will be a tremendous relief to you. You may not see it yet, but many of us who have taken that step know what it feels like to release the burden of our lifelong secret and all the darkness and anxiety that come with it.
Please, take that step. I know its frightening, but you'll be so proud of yourself if you do this.
Cathy, Bob,
It couldn't be more clear to me that you're suffering from depression. I hope you can address this as transition alone may not solve depression and depression will make it harder to chose a path as a trans woman.
Comparing yourself to others with an eye to judgement rarely helps, yes some have it worse than you, others have it easier and none of that ultimately matters, we all do the best we can with the hand we're dealt.
You've related some very sad things about your relationship with wife and daughter. My ex was as bad as you relate and we never even got to addressing my transexuality. My daughters are better than ok, if one has been given to being judgmental, happily she's begun to evolve past that.
I would say take satisfaction knowing you've done your best to play it their way and I think you can be proud of bending over backward to try to accommodate. Now however think you might want to try changing the conversation.
I may have intoned this before, my gf has known I'm trans from the start , 18 years now and has been accepting up to the point of talking about transitioning medically. When I decided to start hormones and plan for srs I didn't tell her because I needed to decide for myself and knowing her response would be both negative and self centered I kept it to myself for a couple of weeks. That wasn't easy but the decision had to be about me.
After two weeks of hrt I was completely clear that I needed to transition and when I talked to my gf I simply said I need to do this. Because it was a decision I'd already made her initial response - which wasn't positive - was something i could deal with and I think also because I was clear that I was simply being assertive.
Cathy,
SadieBlake is repeating what all of us have been telling you in one way or another. The first priority is treat your affective state (anxiety, depression, sense of futility, panic) getting you in a better place where you are coping effectively and can have a clearer mind, able to take stock of the problems you face and begin to dig out of the pit you're in now. Once back on your feet, with the help of proper psychotherapy by someone with experience with gender issues and support mechanisms (your friends on the Susan's Place forum, formal support groups and group therapy) you will make life changes you desire.
Get to your GP, see if you can work out the necessary drug therapy to stabilize your mood and affective state. If your GP is unwilling or unsuccessful, force a referral to a psychiatrist who will have the ability to expertly handle the drug therapy needed to get you better and able to move forward with your life.
So to repeat, you cannot solve this terrible set of problems without treating the problems you face head on making some substantial life changes. Without getting your anxiety, depression, etc. controlled--something which will require drugs--you will not be able to make these changes.
What are the necessary life changes? The first is to either reestablish a healthier dynamic in your relationship with your wife and larger home situation. Gender issues will follow. This is what a therapist will help you work through.
One step at a time. Wars are won battle by battle.
You've found friends here, perhaps more so than you realize. We will give you a nudge to do the right thing when needed. Right now you need it. Please accept the nudge.
Steph
A couple of weeks ago I made an appointment to see my GP.
I walked into the waiting room to see my mother in law sitting there.
I turned round, walked back to my car, phoned the surgery and told them I'd been detained at work. The receptionist was very nice, told me not to worry as the doctor was running late anyway.
I couldn't face her, more to the point I knew it would get back to my wife that I'd been in there, and I'd be greeted with the old "you never tell me anything" line. And I don't have a comeback to that, because, well, I don't feel that I *can* tell her anything. Every problem I have, she has a worse one. And if I dare to suggest everything is less than 100% sweetness and light, "if you're not happy xxxx off".
Now I'm afraid that if I go again I'll see her in there again and the cycle starts again. I know it's an irrational fear but (and I know how stupid this sounds) I panic at the thought of going to the surgery now.
Meanwhile I just don't feel I can face people, either face to face or virtually. I haven't dared post on here for weeks, I've binned most of my other accounts again, and after a slating on Facebook a couple of weeks ago, I've just about severed all contact. I'm on the verge of giving up. I don't know what to do, what to think, I don't even know who or what I am any more.
If you have got this far, thank you.
You're welcome
Your mother in law just might have been there for a flu shot, just as you were. Odds are pretty good she won't be back there for quite a while. If you wait quite a while before getting up the nerve again......
BTW - even my self described "Pathologically Honest" wife does not tell me everything.
You are not the only one with fears and among us, it quite common. Many of us stay in the closet for years because we fear coming out. Many of the people you see on the site have only recently overcome their fears and the fact that you are here is an indication that you are making progress with your fears. As gender therapist can be very helpful to us in overcoming our fears and speeding our transition.
Don't fear the reaction you will get from us as most of us have been there and done that. Site policy is to help people and if people become critical of you, let us know and we will take corrective action. We will not permit people to be abused in the process of self discover.
I suffer from long term depression and I am on escitalopram which is a SSRI. If one medication is not right for you try another. I can not give the dose but it is an adult dose, this is also prescribed to minors. It has helped reset my base line and deal better with the lows. I am able to step back and view my feelings and it gives me room to deal with my lows is the best way I can describe how it helps.
I chickened out in telling my ex-wife (she lives with me) that my BA and GCS is 9/15. She knows it is going to happen but not when. So do not feel like you are alone in I hate to tell her anything because she can get emotional and even physical.
When I finally had to get help it was because I let thing get to the point of attempted suicide. I was so fragile I could not get HRT for 5 months. I am so glad I got help. I am so glad I had a gender therapist. I am so glad I am transitioning. I have lost some but gained a lot. Being honest and expressing how I feel or what I am doing is something I have been working on.
These are learned behaviors for survival that I am learning to change.
Cathy
Firstly, it was good to hear from you - I was a bit worried that we'd lost you.
Well done for making the appointment with your GP, it's such a shame things didn't turn out well but don't let it get in the way.
I think the important thing is that it's none of your mother in law's business why you were at the doctors and so what if she tells your wife? Your wife must know that something is wrong with you so just tell her the truth - you can package it up by saying that you're feeling really low and want to get things sorted out to be a better husband for her.
Over the longer term, as a number of us have said in the past, you really need to get the upper hand in your marriage (and I know that it's difficult after years of emotional abuse) - if, as I think you've said in the past, the only thing important to her is preserving the marriage and all of the comforts that come with it, threatening to end it is an incredibly strong bargaining tool.
Please please please make another appointment with your GP - it's the single most important thing you need to do.
Good luck,
Amanda
Yes, good to know you're still with us.
Make another appointment. Press on with it! We want you to start feeling better!
Steph
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 11, 2016, 10:51:45 AMMy wife made it clear from an early stage in our relationship that she didn't trust me
Quotewe had 2 weeks of silence, accusations, recriminations, and ultimately it was made clear to me that my "issue" is Not To Be Spoken Of.
Oh my god. I'm... just going to withhold how upset I am to hear that people in relationships this unhealthy are having kids...
Look, you don't have to transition. You don't have to make any changes you're uncomfortable with. I'd suggest you work on your marriage with this person who sounds controlling, and, most importantly, try to be a good parent until your daughters can be independent enough to live with the fallout. If you've waited this long, you should be able to wait another few years. You should go get a gender therapist to talk about your "issue" with, because that will probably help.
Edit: I just realized that this thread was 7 pages long, so sorry for responding to the first post. My advice still stands...
Quote from: PrincessCrystal on October 24, 2016, 07:12:15 AM
Oh my god. I'm... just going to withhold how upset I am to hear that people in relationships this unhealthy are having kids...
I'm sorry to have upset you. My daughter wasn't exactly planned, from my point of view anyway, but that doesn't make her unloved. I try my best to be a good parent, not always successfully, but I like to think I show her more affection than my parents ever did to me.
At that stage it was just little things, like her not being keen on me socialising, it was only after becoming pregnant that she started to demonstrate controlling behaviour, at the time I put it down to hormones but, well, it never got any better.
Sorry if I've upset or offended anyone else, that was never my intention. Maybe best if I go back under cover.
Don't go, please stay. I've got two amazing kids from a marriage when I was still the closeted happy dad, and many others here do too. It does make life more complex but my life would be worse without them. Life is rarely as simple as we'd like it to be!
Please stay! You didn't upset anyone, your wife's behaviour is what makes us sad and upset.
I have two daughters a 19 y. and a 10y. old. Who would have guessed one year ago that my 10y. old will stay permanently with me and that I will be single parenting.
What I want to say is, life works sometimes in mysterious ways.
If you see a chance to fix your marriage try that first if it's not working you can still decide if you want to stay, separate, no transition, partly or full. Everything is up to you!
A quote that was very inspiring for me:
Be decisive. Right or wrong, make a decision. The road of life is paved with flat squirrels who couldn't make a decision.
All the best
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Quote from: Bob Wascathy on October 25, 2016, 01:09:21 AM
I'm sorry to have upset you. My daughter wasn't exactly planned, from my point of view anyway, but that doesn't make her unloved. I try my best to be a good parent, not always successfully, but I like to think I show her more affection than my parents ever did to me.
At that stage it was just little things, like her not being keen on me socialising, it was only after becoming pregnant that she started to demonstrate controlling behaviour, at the time I put it down to hormones but, well, it never got any better.
Sorry if I've upset or offended anyone else, that was never my intention. Maybe best if I go back under cover.
Cathy, hon, I haven't replied in this thread yet but I've been following it and trying to formulate a response. But I feel I should speak here. Please, please do not leave because of one person's comment. It happens to be one I do not agree with; I speak as a child of two parents who only stayed together for us kids, and I trust my Mom when she said she had no idea how abusive my father would become. From everything you have said, it sounds as though you had no way of knowing what your wife's true personality (which has been increasingly chilling to me as I have read through the thread; suffice it to say she reminds me disturbingly of my fiancee's ex-wife, who I called sister, and who revealed herself to be a horrific individual that I cannot describe without entirely derailing this thread) before your daughter was conceived.
Even if you had, that wouldn't make you a bad parent. Stuff happens. You hope the person you loved would come back. As someone who has also been in abusive relationships, the gaslighting and abuse messes with your head so very much that it's hard to think straight. At least in my experience. It sounds like it is similar for you, as well.
I very much hope you will remain here, because there are many of us who care and support you. I would feel the loss of your presence as what it would be -- a loss. Please don't leave.
*offers hugs, and cookies of choice, and more hugs, because it sounds like you really need them*
The beauty of a forum is that we don't all have to agree. I believe PrincessCrystal was being supportive. Their point of view may be different than others. However, the support is the important part.
I don't think you should leave either, Cathy. It is good to see you back and commenting. We all get upset sometimes. As long as we are all respectful and don't start throwing around accusations I think we are all good here.
With warmth,
Joanna
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on October 25, 2016, 01:09:21 AMSorry if I've upset or offended anyone else, that was never my intention. Maybe best if I go back under cover.
Woah Woah! Chill out! I did not say I had a problem with you, I said I had a problem with your marriage. You should totally stay on this site and not feel like I'm at all telling you to leave. This is everyone's space to talk about uncomfortable topics: just because I'm upset by something you shared does NOT mean you should not share it.
Now, to reiterate, if you feel like your wife "will not allow you to socialize", your marriage has some serious problems and you need to get them fixed. I recommend you go to a certified marriage counselor with her, because you need to solve that for both you and your daughter.
I've suggested relationship counselling before. Her answer was "*I* don't have a problem...". Seems I'm the one with all the problems, and the cause of most of hers too.
My situation upsets *me* too. I probably shouldn't have fathered a child, it's not fair on her after all.
I genuinely wonder whether I am trans at all. The more time passes, the more my feelings seem like a distant memory, a dream. Cathy's just a phase of my life, like my schooldays.
If your wife won't let you be yourself then at the very least she is participating in making a problem in your relationship. I would say she has a problem in thinking she has a say in your gender presentation.
I allowed for my GF's feelings 15 years ago as part of deciding then not to pursue hrt/srs. I don't entirely feel ok about that, disphoria is been a daily thing and that comes to 5479 days of not dealing with it. When those chickens came home to roost it was in the form of suicidal depression.
Find yourself some support, when you reschedule your appointment, have a pretext in mind in case your MIL is at the office again.
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on October 27, 2016, 07:28:16 AMI've suggested relationship counselling before. Her answer was "*I* don't have a problem...". Seems I'm the one with all the problems, and the cause of most of hers too.
Ok, if she said that, you DEFINITELY need to see a marriage counselor, because she DEFINITELY brought a problem into the relationship. In fact, it sounds like you've been doormatting to her and she really likes to wipe her feet, and you've been in this cycle for so long that you won't even assert what you need.
Stop letting her pretend that the problems in the relationship are yours alone and drag her to a marriage counselor.
Quote from: Marienz on August 28, 2016, 07:01:13 PM
HI,
I just read through your post and wished to say, I"m sorry you're not getting the exploring time that I feel you may need, as in dressing to relief the discomfort and see how you feel. Is there anything you can do that you haven't tried to help with your wife's feelings towards this?
Marie :)
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Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 30, 2016, 02:49:07 AM
"Fraud" just about sums up the way I feel. I keep being told I ought to "go for a makeover", or "make time to dress", or "make time for myself"... That's a bit like my erstwhile therapist who told me to "learn to love yourself" without giving the first clue as to how...
I've tried so hard to get my wife to accept that my "issue" doesn't change how I am, but it's clear that she believes it's some kind of perversion which can be "cured" by ignoring it. She had a strict Catholic upbringing and I think that reinforced her seeing everything in black and white... I also think if it weren't for my income funding everything, including the latest in her stream of "business ventures", I'd have been out.
I get the feeling I'm wasting people's time because I've been told as much in the past. Only a couple of weeks ago I was told that I should stop asking for help if I have no intention of acting on it because people are getting fed up of me. That coming from someone whose wife knows of and condones their activities...
If anyone does feel I'm wasting their time please say so and I'll go away.
It's tuff to get past isn't it. You are not a fraud. I have found most every one here has a similar story. Realized difference at an early age. So embedded with idea that you pray or make a deal with the devil. Try to get wifey to look at this site so she has a basis for her bigotry. Maybe she wi'll be able to finally understand the torture you have gone through. Most of us older girls have been in your position at some point in our life. Revealing your deepest secrets is hard, but once you get going the truth brings great relief. I have been under stress all my life, except for the last 2.5 months I've been on her.
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Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 30, 2016, 03:48:37 AM
I had several accounts as "Cathy" on various fora, I deleted most of them earlier this year because, well, I felt that Cathy was dead and buried. The feelings, the urges, don't go away... The clothes, shoes, makeup, wigs, went in a charity shop, or a bin, or a clothing bank. The "support network" got fed up of me and disappeared. I used Bob as a first name because, well, anyone who is familiar with the 1980s comedy "Blackadder 2" will get the reference.
I just feel as though I'm going round in circles... I get annoyed with myself so I'm not surprised in the least that other people get annoyed with me... Every forum I've joined, every attempt I've made to reach out to people, to try and make friends, has ultimately resulted in me feeling worse for whatever reason. I always seem to attract people who concur with my parent's attitude, that constantly pointing out my shortcomings will make me want to try harder...
I repressed my feelings for seventeen years because I was scared for the kids. Guess who showed me maturity can happen at any time when I came out.
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I don't want anyone to think I've disappeared, just been busy at home and work for the past week - last week my car failed its MOT (UK vehicle safety check), and what was supposed to be a 2 hour job to change the part took 3 days because of rusted and seized bolts. I had to take Thursday off work to work on my car, then ended up working a 10 hour day on Friday to catch up. Plus, I don't really have much to say at the moment...
Thanks for letting us know. Hope things go smoother.
With warmth,
Joanna
Quote from: DawnOday on October 28, 2016, 05:45:27 PM
It's tuff to get past isn't it. You are not a fraud. I have found most every one here has a similar story. Realized difference at an early age. So embedded with idea that you pray or make a deal with the devil. Try to get wifey to look at this site so she has a basis for her bigotry. Maybe she wi'll be able to finally understand the torture you have gone through. Most of us older girls have been in your position at some point in our life. Revealing your deepest secrets is hard, but once you get going the truth brings great relief. I have been under stress all my life, except for the last 2.5 months I've been on her.
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I've revealed my deepest secrets and it just made things more difficult. Believe me, any torture I've been through is as nothing compared to what I've put her through. I have sciatica following a road accident, which has left me in constant pain despite several courses of physiotherapy and analgesia, but her pain is far worse than I can ever imagine... now my inability to afford a new mattress for the bed is causing her pain, why is my compesation claim taking so long, how much am I going to get, surely they must have given you some idea, why don't you tell me anything...
Yesterday a band I've loved for over 30 years were playing at a venue half an hour's drive away. My wife made it clear that she wouldn't go. I don't have any friends to go with, didn't fancy going on my own, or being interrogated when I got back. So I sat at home, staring at the television. It just reinforced how much of a billy-no-mates I really am.
I know I come across as miserable, and I apologise for that. I try my best but somehow it's never good enough. I really think it's now time I gave up. I'm never going to transition, I know that deep down inside, I don't know what the future holds any more, I'm sorry to have bothered everyone. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart.
I write most reluctantly. I am fearful that I won't be of any help to you and irritate you and other members of our community for not singing the same song. It is certainly not my purpose to irritate anyone. Secondly, I try to use simple common sense when commenting since I don't have a wealth of experience. For instance, I have never been married so the ins and outs, the ups and downs of married life are simply a mystery to me. So here goes...
It seems to me that you are pinning all your hopes for happiness to the notion of transition. Unfortunately, that is like investing of all your money in one very risky venture. Transitioning isn't nirvana. All of the challenges you currently face in day to day living (money, relationships, etc.) and perhaps even more will still be there even if you transition. You may be putting on a different style, cut, color, etc. of jeans, but you will still be putting them on one leg at a time as you currently do. Life is a hard slog and happiness-handed-to-us-on-a-plate is the stuff of nonsense. Happiness is something that you have to work at no matter your gender identity. Find pleasure in little things. Delight in your accomplishments no matter how small and seemingly insignificant. Practice uplifting self-talk. Be positive even in the face of adversity. If you can't depend upon others to be the source of joy, work at bringing to joy to others. (This seems contradictory since you obviously need building up in this regard, but it can really help.)
In no way, manner, or shape do I want to diminish the challenges you face. One would have to be made of stone not to sense the difficulty you are having and to be concerned for you. All I am saying is that until the way forward becomes clear (if indeed it ever becomes clear), it is important for you to make the best life you can. Even the longest, most tortured journey begins with a single step. Tell yourself (repeatedly if necessary), I am going to be happy today no matter what. Be safe. Be as happy as you can be!
Hi!
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I find the answers interesting. I might be partially transmale but I have enough female hormone brain initialization to be independent.
I tried to help two different transwomen who appealed to me for help for the same thing, but I finally gave up because no matter how dysphoric and depressed they felt, they still had enough obedient male hormone brain mapping to slavishly obey their wives and accept whatever was dealt them, no matter how suicidal they became.
Apparently only females-or males heavy in female traits- are capable of thinking independently, and my words fell on deaf ears.
I finally distanced myself and my first friend, from high school, stayed on with her wife, dressing as female, but forced to work at home and to move to another town.
The other person is still living with her wife, hasn't been able to transition at all, and works 90+ hours a week supporting her wife's business as it goes deeper into debt.
I suppose eventually suicidal depression will drive her to take drastic actions, but the high school friend went on for years like that, calling me day and night to discuss it.
Both seem helplessly enslaved to their wives and do nothing to stand up to them, although the high school friend did finally start dressing as female, but that's all. She remains an obedient little husband type.
But obviously most people on this forum are either transitioning or have completed it, so some people can and do stand up to their wives, or have the courage to move out.
Quote from: Bob Wascathy on November 20, 2016, 04:48:11 AMYesterday a band I've loved for over 30 years were playing at a venue half an hour's drive away.
You're digging your own pit of failure here. No one can tell you to transition or not, but if you can't go see a show you wanted to; you don't really have a marriage. If she's a jealous or suspicious type, you can always set your phone to allow certain other people to know where it is, so they can see where you are, heck they can text you and ask you to text back a pic of where you are. (I probably just triggered the crud out of high-privacy folks.. sorry)
If you can't do the things you like, even presenting male, you're just a servant, a servant that makes money and gives it to their owner. Has nothing to do with trans issues. If you're ok with that, then its not my business to say don't. But be honest with yourself about what you have become. You're not a lover, partner, or husband; just a servant, an unpaid servant who can't even leave their place of employment to see a concert.
Just about every post screams that your real and biggest issue is a non-marriage that you insist on preserving. Perhaps as a convenient excuse not to do anything about your GD. I fully understand not wanting to go alone to a concert. I sure wouldn't, especially being uncomfortable around people I don't know. Even more uncomfortable, and something I'm not familiar with at all, is the "Interrogation" upon return from any unescorted outing. I would be depressed also knowing I'm in a miserable marriage, willingly letting my spouse keep me on a short leash, and not allowed to be an individual, just an "Appliance".
As Katy said Transition is no magic pill to end all our ills. In fact many times transitioning means your just exchanging one set of ills for an even bigger set. I use the analogy of "Geographical Relocation". Moving across town, across the county, across the country, is not going to make your troubles go away.
I don't know what to do any more.
Thank you for trying.
Please don't judge me too harshly.
Goodbye.
Not judging you at all; we all have to pick our course in life, and its ok however you wish to choose. As long as the choice you make is consensual and fully informed, none have a right to judge.