Susan's Place Transgender Resources

It has taken me a very long time to accept myself as trans. It nearly cost me my life. I eventually just accepted it and decided to start HRT to ease the dysphoria. I am almost 2 months into the HRT and I am not feeling a damn thing. Nothing at all!!!

I had a read through some other people's posts in the HRT section of the forum trying to find someone else with similar experiences. I found nothing. Every post I read, people comment on how wonderful the hormones make them feel and how quickly the mental effects happen. This has led me to the belief that I may not be trans after all. Surely if I was actually trans, then the hormones would have had some kind of positive effect. It has taken so much effort and pain and heartache to get to where I am now and it feels like it has all been for nothing. Even my endocrinologist was surprised when I told him that I wasn't feeling any effects whatsoever from the hormones. I don't know where to go from here. I feel very lost. 2 years of therapy, electrolysis thousands and thousands of dollars all wasted. I have accomplished nothing!

I don't know what I am. I don't know where I belong. I am very very lost.

It's funny I am a year on hormones, and I never felt any different.
All I felt was an instant calm when I start simply because I knew I would be no more going down the path of becoming a man.
But as for effects mentally that HRT brought me? Absolutely 0, and that is totally fine.
I was a very happy person before and I am still a very happy person, just alot more real.
You don't have to be thinking your not trans because you have had no mental changes.
How do you feel about being a woman?

I haven't had that calm feeling either. When I say no effect I mean absolutely nothing at all. Zip! Nada! Nothing!!!

I don't want to be a woman, I just want to be a normal guy.

You don't want to be a woman? But do you feel like a woman? Or like feminine?
Ther is nothing wrong with being a feminine guy either. Alot of people think that because you are feminine you are a female

The effects of HRT do vary a lot from person to person. In some instances it can take a long time for noticeable effects to emerge.

The question is, what were your expectations from HRT? If it is just a mental peace, then maybe HRT won't give it to you instantly. Maybe to gain mental peace you need to see your body changing gradually from male to female physique, which can take longer for some people than others.

Maybe the dosage you are on is too low.

Are you in counselling with an experienced gender therapist who understands the medical side of transition as well as the mental side? I think this is important to have this type of expertise on your side. How about the endocrinologist? For him to just be surprised is not exactly a response I would expect from an endo who has experience with the process of transition.

I wouldn't give up just yet. You need better medical and psychological support and advice, and I can't see this happening based on your explanations so far.

I introduced myself to estrogen very slowly and there was no obvious change mentally. I quit taking it one summer, that brought about rapid mental changes. It might be doing more than you think.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Rachel_Christina on July 30, 2017, 05:40:55 AM
You don't want to be a woman? But do you feel like a woman? Or like feminine?
Ther is nothing wrong with being a feminine guy either. Alot of people think that because you are feminine you are a female

I don't know what I feel anymore. I am so damn confused. I don't look feminine by any stretch of the imagination. I don't act feminine. There is just something deep inside my brain that tells me I should be female. I can't understand any of it.

Quote from: Dan on July 30, 2017, 06:19:48 AM
The question is, what were your expectations from HRT?

I was hoping the HRT would get rid of the dysphoria and stop me from thinking I should be a girl. Then I could just get on with being a normal guy.

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Maybe the dosage you are on is too low.

Are you in counselling with an experienced gender therapist who understands the medical side of transition as well as the mental side? I think this is important to have this type of expertise on your side. How about the endocrinologist? For him to just be surprised is not exactly a response I would expect from an endo who has experience with the process of transition.

My dosage from what I understand is now above the normal transition dose. I was only on a low dose for the first week.

I have been in therapy for over 2 years with 4 different therapists. 3 of them have lots of trans experience. My endocrinologist is Dr Jon Hayes. He has over 20 years experience treating trans patients and I have only heard good things about him. He is the only endo I have heard of in Sydney that treats trans patients.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on July 30, 2017, 06:30:48 AM
I introduced myself to estrogen very slowly and there was no obvious change mentally. I quit taking it one summer, that brought about rapid mental changes. It might be doing more than you think.

Hugs, Devlyn

As I mentioned previously, I was on a low dose of estrogen for only a week. My dosage is quite high now. I am taking the maximum oral dose plus applying a gel twice a day into my skin. I don't feel any different. I still feel very unsettled and distressed. Where is the calmness I keep hearing everyone talking about?

My friend Rachel may have a point. YMMV

With that, do you find when you are in the dumps that you tend to doubt yourself. I know for me, being an odd-ball whenever i feel male or see something i percieve male about myself and i get strong dysphoira doubts oddly enough may come in. Not because being a female feels wrong (it never has felt wrong), but because the ''male'' stuff is so overwhelming it is all i can feel and pay attention to, nullifiying my good feelings about who i really am. Maybe you should think outside your person box and do something that brings you to a more feminine state of being :) !!?

Love ya-Ashley

Quote from: SailorMars1994 on July 30, 2017, 07:18:05 AM
..... Maybe you should think outside your person box and do something that brings you to a more feminine state of being :) !!?

I don't know what that means. I don't know what it feels to be female or male. I just feel the way I feel. I can't tell you whether it is a male feeling or female feeling. I have nothing to compare it to. There is just this damn voice inside my head that tells me I should have been born a girl. None of it makes any sense to me.

Quote from: Jayne01 on July 30, 2017, 07:37:01 AM
I don't know what that means. I don't know what it feels to be female or male. I just feel the way I feel. I can't tell you whether it is a male feeling or female feeling. I have nothing to compare it to. There is just this damn voice inside my head that tells me I should have been born a girl. None of it makes any sense to me.

I can relate to that.  Now, I just feel like me and I feel right.  Before, I felt like not me and I felt wrong.  But I have no idea what people are talking about when they say they feel female or feel male. 


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

Jayne,

This is a very personal decision. No one else can make it for you.

The decision to transition for me was based on trying to fight my dysphoria for over 50 years. Now that I am post-op, my dysphoria is gone, but everything else remains the same. Do not expect dramatic changes with only a few months of HRT. We feel better about ourselves because we are just much more comfortable in our post-op gender. There was no euphoric sense of pleasure. It was just the absence of discomfort.

One question you need to ask yourself, "Are you still obsessing about living your life as the opposite gender?" For me this feeling was there until I woke up after surgery. The dysphoria was suddenly gone. I feel good and I am happy with my decision.

Complete transition is not for everyone.  Some of us describe ourselves as gender fluid. This is a different situation. Other people know they are trans, but do not like the social stigma of being post-op and still others are in denial, due to social constraints and conditioning.

We can tell you our experiences, but most of us have never met you and do not really know you. This is where therapists come into our lives. They have the education to help you find yourself, but the decision to transition is ultimately your own.

I never wanted to transition. I only ever wanted to be a normal guy. I cannot imagine living as a woman. I know nothing about being a woman. All I want is to turn that damn noise off in my head. The voice that is constantly telling me that I should be female. I don't want to throw away my entire life due to some stupid voice inside my head.

I'm not on HRT, but I feel the same way.  The constant nagging that tells me I should be female, which i really wish would go away, so I can focus and be present in living life as a male without this distraction.  It's miserable.  Unfortunately I don't think there is a solution.  Maybe transition, but I'm not convinced the nagging about gender would go away.

If you figure it out, please send me a pm with the cure :)

Everyone is a little different when it comes to hrt and where we need to go, so your experience will too. I am slowly coming to grips with what that means.

In terms of hrt and 'feeling female' at an emotional level, I have less of the more extreme thoughts. The degree to which I had an extra edge or level when irritated or angry has reduced. It feels more wavelike with more time to get angry and easier rolloff. And I love that. I feel more me as amorphous as that sounds because that feels more right to me than having that extra edge. I can't say I fully understand it either, but it is how I feel.

I should been born female. I think of it like completing a connect the dot picture and it just looks and feels very wrong. For me, this is the body dimension. The mental map of the body. This is a mismatch for me and why I will likely have surgery so the map aligns. It sounds like you have a very clear view on this because the statements you use are very strong.

There is the social dimension and this is where it is tricky for me. I am lucky in that my partner a cis female is a self-described tomboy. Jeans, t-shirt, no make-up, competitive, red head, who can do a very good impression of gollum and most Harry Potter characters. She never will attend protests because she just is too darn competitive. Peaceful she is not, although she is highly sensitive as well. I am lucky because she reminds me to check my assumptions about what feeling and being female is and to really look around at all the women to value their differences.

She reminds me to examine more basic things. What do I like as activities, what are my/our values, what clothes do I like versus what I think I should like.

I like hiking and am an old school geek (Stranger Things, rpg geek) that sees all the pretty girls in dresses and wishes that I was like them too. In reality, I am not. I will likely always have exactly one dress that will sit in my closet.  I love jeans and haven't decided if I prefer v-necks or what other top type yet kind of girl. Must say I love old salt and pepper wooly sweaters.... don't ask me why. I guess I just do, but they just look and feel so warm and cuddly.  So I can't see myself as a high heels and cocktail dress wearer. It just isn't me. Then again my mom was always track bottoms and hoody type so it might just be that I am fashion challenged as a genetic predisposition. Can you picture what kind of person I am on the female spectrum? You probably have an easier time doing that then I do and that is ok.

It all started with that very clear knowledge that I should not have been born male from a bodily perspective. I am still figuring out the rest, but I know that one starting point is definitive for me so I am quite happy to rely on that. :) I appreciate that others will choose otherwise and that is cool too. We have to do what is right for ourselves.

It sounds like you are fighting against your female nature so hard that it's more of a mental issue rather than a physical one.  The mind is much more powerful than the body and as long as you struggle so hard against being a woman then the hormones have no effect.

It's kind of like a dance.  The estrogen is there. Ready to be your dance partner but your mind is holding onto the idea that you are just a normal guy with a white knuckle death grip so hard that you can't join in the dance.  It definitely sounds like something to address in therapy.

Estradiol is not a magic bullet.  It's only a helper.

Also, I have heard anecdotal evidence that Estradiol dosages treatment is sometimes used as a diagnostic treatment to determine if a person is transgender.  The theory goes that after a certain period of taking estradiol that real cis males will react badly to it but transgender women will love it and it will confirm the diagnosis of GID.

I'm not doubting your doctor, but this is the first I've heard of someone wanting to be a regular guy being put on estrogen. I'm not sure how that works. Best wishes finding your peace.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Janes Groove on July 30, 2017, 11:29:04 AM
Also, I have heard anecdotal evidence that Estradiol dosages treatment is sometimes used as a diagnostic treatment to determine if a person is transgender.  The theory goes that after a certain period of taking estradiol that real cis males will react badly to it but transgender women will love it and it will confirm the diagnosis of GID.

I'm clearly reacting badly, so I must be a cis male, right?

Quote from: Jayne01 on July 30, 2017, 07:03:33 AM
I was hoping the HRT would get rid of the dysphoria and stop me from thinking I should be a girl. Then I could just get on with being a normal guy.

....Where is the calmness I keep hearing everyone talking about?

After having been on/off low dose HRT several times over decades of my life, for me there was never any "Stop me from thinking I should be a girl". The stopping of HRT always came when the secondary affects came into conflict with "The Prime Directive"... being a "Normal"(ish) guy.

Sort of along the line of what Devlyn said, in my case stopping the anti-androgen after about 4 years of full dose E. After about 6 months I was slowly slipping back into the almost always depressed and, if you believe my wife, angry person. Afew months back I had a bit of a meltdown, stopped both... what a mistake  :o

The "Calmness", or quieting the noise, is often a good indication that the person needed more E in their diet. But NOT a diagnostic test where one can state No Calm == No Trans. As with all things hormones YMMV

BTW - What about an AA? What is any, and just what are your T & blood workups saying?

Anecdotal observations from my TG Support group members, as well as my personal experience, has seen that different types of E and different delivery systems affect you in different ways. Pills, patches, needle pricks, mare piss, lab grown, bio-identical, and even the variations I saw between manufacturers, all affected me differently to nothing at all for me

Hi Jayne.  Oral, patches and gel don't always work.  What matters is your blood estrogen level, and it took switching from patches to injections to get my e level high enough to stop me from having anxiety and panic attacks.  I got some relief from the patches, but nowhere near enough.

I have also found that I need to have long hair, pierced ears, dress female, and interact as a female for complete relief from the anxiety.  I am in male clothes to do some really dirty yard work right now (cleaning weeds from under the bonsai benches). And he only reason I am okay with it is because I had an amazing mall day with my wife yesterday, including a mini makeover at MAC.

But I am very curious about your blood work.  Your e levels need to be between 100 and 200 according to WPATH.

At my last blood test before increasing my dosage, my E was at 378pmol/l and my T was 20 nmol/l.

Your Testosterone is still high.  For some people that needs to get low to feel the mental changes.

Mine started at 29 nmol/l and ended at 0.1 nmol/l.  That took a while but within the first 60 days it had dropped to 6 nmol/l.

Because I was on a blocker as well as estradiol I can't say if things would have worked as well on just one or the other.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

I found some stuff out that helped with the process. One. It may have been predetermined from the care my mother received while I was in utero. DES was administered for prevention of miscarriages and stillbirths.  DES is a synthetic female hormone administered in dosages 3000 to 5000 times greater than birth control pills over an eight month period. This would effect the formation of brain function in the second and third trimesters. Two, I revealed myself to everyone that mattered. I came out and all the feelings of pressure to conceal my "secret"disappeared. Third Taking the first steps outside the comfort zone to enter the public as your female self. I found it very intimidating. First there was a crowd of kids and their mothers in the waiting room. But once you get past the stage fright which I am still struggling to do, after all I tried to be a man for 64 years, it gets easier and easier with each subsequent outing. Finding some support is also important. I was fortunate to have a really special lady as my voice and transition coach.
Did it all happen like a slap to the head? No much more subtle than that. My voice in my head keeps telling me I did the right thing. Another thing is I appreciate the plight just not for myself but for my trans brothers and sisters struggling for basic human rights. I now try to promote understanding and acceptance.

Quote from: Jayne01 on July 30, 2017, 01:32:56 PM
I'm clearly reacting badly, so I must be a cis male, right?

It's only a theory so it's not conclusive, but it's something to consider.
In conjunction with your desire to be a normal guy after 2 years of therapy, however, it does raise a red flag.

Have you been seeing the same therapist for 2 years? 

Quote from: Jayne01 on July 30, 2017, 07:03:33 AM
I was hoping the HRT would get rid of the dysphoria and stop me from thinking I should be a girl. Then I could just get on with being a normal guy.

From my understanding this is not the way feminizing therapy for gender dysphoria works.  Feminizing therapy helps one feel MORE like a girl and less like a guy.  It's medicine to make one's body appear more like a woman and less like a man.  Yes, there are many transgender women and non binary folks who take female hormones to ease there dysphoria and continue to live socially as males but it is the feminizing effects of estrogen that ease the dysphoria that they experience, and many wish to one day transition to a more female role socially.  In other words the feminizing effects like softer skin, less body hair, breast growth, etc. are welcome changes and while they might choose to present socially as a "normal guy" it is the effect of having a more female body that brings relief to the dysphoria associated with bodily manifestations of masculinity.

No, I have been seeing my current therapist since March 2016, and my previous therapist for about 9 months before that. The other two therapists I saw were just filling in the space while I was on a waiting list.

I could never relate to people who seemed so certain in their identity, the west they describe who they are on the inside. I have such a gigantic disconnect with who I am. No amount of therapy has been able to make me feel more connected with who I am. The best way I can describe myself is that I have no identity. I don't know what the hell I am.

Think about the things you like.
And make sure, that these are things you like, and not things you feel pressure to like or that you should like.

Now, out of all that list? is there anything that is "stereo typed" or "associated" with women?
ask your self, is it liking these things, that are making you feel, "not normal"

Because wanting to be normal, might be where you are going wrong. simple because, their is no such thing as normal.
Normal is in itself a stereotype, an image we have of something, and as such the way we think something should be.

But the truth of human beings is, we each and every one of us is different.
Dont try and be a normal guy, or a normal woman, this task, is impossible, no one is.

Instead focus on yourself, and be yourself, that is all we can be.
If you are a person that likes high heels, that is who you are, if you don't like heels, that is who you are.

It seams as though, you may feel pressure to have Hrt to be trans, or that enjoying Hrt will define you as trans.
Neither of these statements are true.

I would suggest, making a choice. Hrt or no Hrt? and go with the one you want, and if you change your mind, that is ok too.

I truly feel for you Jayne

Looking back, for many years I have known I am trans.  Unfortunately I also faced a battle where I just wanted to fit with the gender I was assigned at birth.  I repressed those feelings much to the detriment of everything in my life, trying to be a 'normal cis guy' and slowly but surely my dysphoria grew, I pushed away those close to me and became extremely unhappy and dissatisfied

In the last couple of years I have finally learnt to accept what I am and who I am.  Not that it simplifies life much - after all I still need to come out to my family & friends and transition - but I have made a massive step forward in accepting me and have made plans to progress over the coming months

I started HRT recently and after just two or three days felt a massive sense of calm.  Now, I can't believe that my hormone levels changed that quickly so assume that most of this is due to wanting the changes desperately - a placebo of sorts.  I guess if you are fighting the effects of HRT by hanging on to an image of some male self, such changes are not going to happen until you start to see the physical effects of HRT and something finally/possibly clicks

Only you can really decide what you want, who you are and where you want to be.  The fact that you are questioning yourself so much about your gender indicates that you are probably transgender but where you lie in the spectrum is something you need to work out for yourself

Personally, I would be very concerned about taking such a drastic step (with all the physical changes that are likely to come with HRT) whilst still holding on to such a strong desire to be male.  These unresolved issues aren't going to just disappear because your hormone levels change - in fact I can see more issues with your male side trying to come to terms with your new female characteristics.  At the same time, I wouldn't recommend trying to dismiss and repress your true self as this is really somewhere you really don't want to go

Jayne,

Please let me try to understand.

• You live with dysphoria—something inside you that keeps telling you you should be female.
• You don't want to be female. You just want to quiet the inner voice that tells you should, and keep living as an ordinary man.
• You believed that taking female hormones would silence that voice.
• You underwent therapy and electrolysis in order to be able to get hormone therapy.
• After having taken the hormones for some time you realize that the voice has not been silenced.
• The unchanging intensity of the voice makes you feel distressed, as the reason you've underwent the whole difficult and expensive process is to silence it and keep living as a normal man.
• You also say you neither look nor act feminine. As you say you just want to go on being a normal guy, the implication would seem to be you you don't want to either.

This leaves me a bit puzzled, so I hope you may give some additional input if you don't mind

You underwent two years of therapy in order to start hormone therapy so I'm sure you know their physical effects. What degree of physical change would you be willing to accept if the voice is silenced?

Low doses probably—usually—induce the change slowly, but you're taking a higher than normal dose. This would seem to imply that you're willing to accept even significant physical change. In any case, your appearance would be likely to drift away from the male norm sooner or later. What are your feelings regarding that?

At first glance it seems that you hope that not feeling any change on the hormones means you're not transgender. If you've considered other possibilities, what are they?

Given that you just want to be a normal man, why did you choose the name Jayne01 for this forum?

I won't even pretend I can provide answers—it just somehow feels to me that the picture you've given is incomplete. Perhaps it may be easier to figure out if it can be filled out a bit more.

Quote from: zirconia on July 30, 2017, 08:35:08 PM
Jayne,

Please let me try to understand.

I can see how I might have confused you. Let me try to clarify.

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• You live with dysphoria—something inside you that keeps telling you you should be female.

True statement.

Quote

• You don't want to be female. You just want to quiet the inner voice that tells you should, and keep living as an ordinary man.

No, it's the other way around. I want to quiet the inner voice that tells me I should be female.

Quote

• You believed that taking female hormones would silence that voice.

I believed that taking the hormones would somehow satisfy the inner female desire and as a result that inner voice would be silenced.

Quote

• You underwent therapy and electrolysis in order to be able to get hormone therapy.

Not true. I had no desire to ever start hormone therapy. It was a last resort for me. I was hoping the therapy would have fixed me. If I wanted hormones, my first therapist would have been more than happy to give me the letter after the first few months. It was actually my therapist's suggestion to give hormones a try because nothing else was working. I started the electrolysis because neither my wife or I like facial hair and I dislike shaving, so if it helped ease the dysphoria, then that would have been a win win solution.

Quote

• After having taken the hormones for some time you realize that the voice has not been silenced.
• The unchanging intensity of the voice makes you feel distressed, as the reason you've underwent the whole difficult and expensive process is to silence it and keep living as a normal man.

True on both points.

Quote

• You also say you neither look nor act feminine. As you say you just want to go on being a normal guy, the implication would seem to be you you don't want to either.
  

I'm not sure I understand what you mean with this point. I want to be a normal guy, I don't want to be a girl.

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You underwent two years of therapy in order to start hormone therapy so I'm sure you know their physical effects. What degree of physical change would you be willing to accept if the voice is silenced?

Again, not true. I did not undergo therapy so that I can get access to hormones. HRT was never a goal. It is just where I have ended up because I have run out of other options. I was led to believe that the voice could be silenced with minimal physical changes. That has not been my experience, hence my current distress.

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Low doses probably—usually—induce the change slowly, but you're taking a higher than normal dose. This would seem to imply that you're willing to accept even significant physical change. In any case, your appearance would be likely to drift away from the male norm sooner or later. What are your feelings regarding that?

I have become desperate. I just want the noise in my head to go away. If I had access to a gun I would be very afraid that I might pull the trigger just to silence the noise. I don't want to die, I want to live! But this inner voice is making it almost impossible.

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At first glance it seems that you hope that not feeling any change on the hormones means you're not transgender. If you've considered other possibilities, what are they?

I have been in and off this forum for over two years now. During that time I had tried to find an explanation for why I feel the way I feel. I would think that I am some kind of sick and twisted pervert, I am having a major midlife crisis, some other kind of mental illness that I don't know about. No explanation seemed to fit. I tried to accept that I am transgender, but I struggled to make that fit also. During the two years in this forum, a great many people suggested I try hormones. If I am trans, then I will feel better, if I am not trans then I would feel worse. I resisted. I did. It want to go on hormones. Eventually I could take no more and my therapist told me I should try hormones. As you know, I don't feel better or worse on the hormones. I feel no change at all. So now I'm back to square one wondering what the hell I am.

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Given that you just want to be a normal man, why did you choose the name Jayne01 for this forum?

The name is meaningless. I am not very imaginative at coming up with usernames. It just a name that keeps me anonymous. It's a transgender forum so I figured that a male would pick a female name. As I said, I am not a creative person.


I hope this clarifies some things for you.

Quote from: Jayne01 on July 30, 2017, 07:37:01 AM
I don't know what that means. I don't know what it feels to be female or male. I just feel the way I feel. I can't tell you whether it is a male feeling or female feeling. I have nothing to compare it to. There is just this damn voice inside my head that tells me I should have been born a girl. None of it makes any sense to me.

Not to make you doubt yourself (last thing i want to do) but i gotta say.

How can you expect to get rid of dysphoria if you dont even allow your inner woman out. If you dont dress atleast on occasion, or do something to allow that girl, or that voice in your head telling you to be a girl out then how can you expect to be free from dysphoira?

You are taking hormones which, again YMMV. You may have higher T then most of us here which is what is not allowing you to feel 100%.

I dont want to lead you down any path, especially a dark one but I would suggest maybe seeing a new counsellor. As Devlyn has said, it is extremely unusrual for a counsellor to give you HRT when you keep telling us you want to be only a man. Maybe you two thought it would be a good way to see how you do, but if you do have dysphoira, which you have said you do, you may need more then just HRT. Transitoning for many is a package deal. Some may live with just dressing, being any form of gender or just taking HRT. But it seems to me, you just taking HRT isnt doing it so maybe you should look at other methods too. In your case , as it is for most of us this trans life/ having non cis-feelings is a package deal of a bit of everything.
Take care hun <3

The HRT was supposed to make the dysphoria go away. Even the endocrinologist told me that many people would take a very small dose of E and that would calm their minds and they just get on with their lives. I figured it would be like some people take medication for high blood pressure or a heart condition and just get on with their lives. My medication would just happen to be estrogen.  And before you say I should find another endo, I am seeing who I am led to believe is the number 1 endocrinologist for transgender patients in Sydney. He has treated thousands of trans patients over the years and has been doing this for more than 20 years. I would assume he knows what he is talking about.

Quote from: Jayne01 on July 30, 2017, 09:29:31 PM
The HRT was supposed to make the dysphoria go away. Even the endocrinologist told me that many people would take a very small dose of E and that would calm their minds and they just get on with their lives. I figured it would be like some people take medication for high blood pressure or a heart condition and just get on with their lives. My medication would just happen to be estrogen.  And before you say I should find another endo, I am seeing who I am led to believe is the number 1 endocrinologist for transgender patients in Sydney. He has treated thousands of trans patients over the years and has been doing this for more than 20 years. I would assume he knows what he is talking about.

I said you should find another counsellor, not endo. And if thats the case  then maybe you need to work some other issues. Face it, it appears hrt alone isnt doing much.  Maybe explore the gender spectrum. I know that had i just been on HRT and not done any social transition i would be only slightly less miserable then i was before hrt and living male. Its a tough road, but if current hrt alone isnt doing it and you have legit dysphoira the you may need and E increase or start thinking slowly allowing hte girl to come out atleast in some safe space.

It sounds to me like you're trans but don't want to be. You want to stop wanting to be a woman. I wish there was something that works. But there isn't. HRT works by making your body better match your inner self, the one you want to be deep inside. It doesn't stop the that little voice that is telling you what you need. It only makes it less painful as your body changes to match what it's telling you.

In my case (transmasculine) going on testosterone did not have the effect of shutting up the male side of me; it made it louder and more insistent, and eventually I accepted that I'm more guy than girl. I didn't WANT to be trans, but eventually I accepted that I'm never going to be the "girl I always wanted to be." Now that I've let go of the idea of being all woman (though a part of me very much is, so I identify as bi-gender) I'm *enjoying* the process of my body becoming more masculine, even though I plan to continue living outwardly as a woman indefinitely. But the more I see change, the more I like it, and I'm starting to realize I could end up going guy full time, inside and out, and love it. Six months ago there's no way I could ever imagine being okay with such a thing. I still don't think it's the most likely outcome, but I'm no longer denying I could be happy that way.

Sailor, I have seen enough of your post to know that you and Jayne are somewhat similar. You also have the male draw where you want to escape from the woman. The difference is that you are willing to transition and Jayne would prefer not to. I have seen Jayne go through several cycles of accepting the feminine side and then rejecting it. I have seen the same from you.

The goal is to find a place where Jayne is comfortable and at the moment that seems to be in the masculine role but we are still waiting for a final decision from Jayne.

Quote from: Cailan Jade on July 30, 2017, 10:18:34 PM
It sounds to me like you're trans but don't want to be. You want to stop wanting to be a woman. I wish there was something that works. But there isn't. HRT works by making your body better match your inner self, the one you want to be deep inside. It doesn't stop the that little voice that is telling you what you need. It only makes it less painful as your body changes to match what it's telling you.

In my case (transmasculine) going on testosterone did not have the effect of shutting up the male side of me; it made it louder and more insistent, and eventually I accepted that I'm more guy than girl. I didn't WANT to be trans, but eventually I accepted that I'm never going to be the "girl I always wanted to be." Now that I've let go of the idea of being all woman (though a part of me very much is, so I identify as bi-gender) I'm *enjoying* the process of my body becoming more masculine, even though I plan to continue living outwardly as a woman indefinitely. But the more I see change, the more I like it, and I'm starting to realize I could end up going guy full time, inside and out, and love it. Six months ago there's no way I could ever imagine being okay with such a thing. I still don't think it's the most likely outcome, but I'm no longer denying I could be happy that way.

+1 !!

Quote from: Dena on July 30, 2017, 10:23:27 PM
Sailor, I have seen enough of your post to know that you and Jayne are somewhat similar. You also have the male draw where you want to escape from the woman. The difference is that you are willing to transition and Jayne would prefer not to. I have seen Jayne go through several cycles of accepting the feminine side and then rejecting it. I have seen the same from you.

The goal is to find a place where Jayne is comfortable and at the moment that seems to be in the masculine role but we are still waiting for a final decision from Jayne.

Similar yes, but there is no want to escape from being a woman at all. It is all about feeling horrid(shame,guilt, ect) for feeling female, or feeling so dysphoirc there doesnt seem anyway out and everything is male like it or not. Look at all my posts, you will never see me every wanting to be male. Infact, nothing seems more replusive then going back... even when i have thought about doing so. Infact, it then becomes even more replusive and gross

Quote from: SailorMars1994 on July 30, 2017, 10:27:19 PM
Similar yes, but there is no want to escape from being a woman at all. It is all about feeling horrid(shame,guilt, ect) for feeling female, or feeling so dysphoirc there doesnt seem anyway out and everything is male like it or not. Look at all my posts, you will never see me every wanting to be male. Infact, nothing seems more replusive then going back... even when i have thought about doing so. Infact, it then becomes even more replusive and gross

And that is what Jayne feels as well. Under a former account, Jayne attempted to wear a dress and was so disgusted that the dress was burned.

I have been reading this thread and have tried to understand. Sometimes the therapist tells us we must abandon our male say and say goodbye. I kinda did this and went thru some mourning. Now I embrace my two lives as one, my male side is every bit a part of me. This is who I am, Im the 3rd gender.

I also believe that maybe you are not TG. Therapists can be wrong. I fought for 3 years with 2 therapist before I could accept I was tg. My therapist believes that if you think you are tg then most likly you are. if you dont......well maybe you are not.

Good luck on your life journey

Ah, i see your point. I didnt recall that. I am not trying to pass judgement on them Dena. Not even the slightest. Maybe my wording is wrong but it is coming from the heart. I do see similarities between Jayne and myself. I just dont want them to be in the same path. I know they are fairly older then myself and could have a lot more to lose too, and i dont want it to seem like i am trying to push transition as the only way but i would hate to see someone struggle with dysphoria as bad as they seem to and still have a form of fear with the female side of things.... a path i know too well myself

If they want to be male and masculine all the power to them, and if i can help them i would and will. I just hope this isnt  a form of supression that could lead to even more mental distress and hurt then it needs to. That is where my concerns came from.

I am sorry if i came across to pointed, rude, pig headed or arrogant. That was not my intention.

Quote from: warlockmaker on July 30, 2017, 10:37:29 PM
My therapist believes that if you think you are tg then most likly you are. if you dont......well maybe you are not.

How is that possible? Are you saying that I can either be or not be trans just by thinking about it?

Ashley, I did not think you were being rude or arrogant in any way. I understand what you were trying to say. Yes, you and I may be similar in some ways but we are different people and each have our own goals. No need to apologise.

Quote from: SailorMars1994 on July 30, 2017, 10:40:58 PM
I am sorry if i came across to pointed, rude, pig headed or arrogant. That was not my intention.

It's not that. Most people on the site are here to transition or at least change their life somewhat. It's rare but not the first time somebody has been on the site who doesn't want to change their life. I have worked with a few over the last couple of years so Jayne isn't the first but it is difficult finding a solution where Jayne will be happy.

Because we have had so few members like this, most people don't understand what Jayne wants and the standard solutions aren't going to work in this case. I am not giving up on Jayne but this is going to take time to get right. There will be no easy answers.

Jayne,

Thank you for your reply. Yes—this does help clarify the picture.

QuoteYou don't want to be female. You just want to quiet the inner voice that tells you should, and keep living as an ordinary man.

QuoteNo, it's the other way around. I want to quiet the inner voice that tells me I should be female.

That's actually what I meant to say. My apologies for not being clear enough.

QuoteYou believed that taking female hormones would silence that voice.

QuoteI believed that taking the hormones would somehow satisfy the inner female desire and as a result that inner voice would be silenced.

Yes—I see.

QuoteYou underwent therapy and electrolysis in order to be able to get hormone therapy.

QuoteNot true. I had no desire to ever start hormone therapy. It was a last resort for me. I was hoping the therapy would have fixed me. If I wanted hormones, my first therapist would have been more than happy to give me the letter after the first few months. It was actually my therapist's suggestion to give hormones a try because nothing else was working. I started the electrolysis because neither my wife or I like facial hair and I dislike shaving, so if it helped ease the dysphoria, then that would have been a win win solution.

I do see. Yes—this does change the position of the pieces on the puzzle.

QuoteAfter having taken the hormones for some time you realize that the voice has not been silenced.
The unchanging intensity of the voice makes you feel distressed, as the reason you've underwent the whole difficult and expensive process is to silence it and keep living as a normal man.

QuoteTrue on both points.

You also say you neither look nor act feminine. As you say you just want to go on being a normal guy, the implication would seem to be you you don't want to either.

QuoteI'm not sure I understand what you mean with this point. I want to be a normal guy, I don't want to be a girl.

I understand. It was the wording that puzzled me. No "normal" man I've known wants to act or look like a woman. In that context I wondered why the you said "don't..." rather than "don't want to..."
Since the "don't...! form could be interpreted to imply a barrier, i'd have from the context as a whole—wanting to be a normal male—expected a "don't want to."

QuoteYou underwent two years of therapy in order to start hormone therapy so I'm sure you know their physical effects. What degree of physical change would you be willing to accept if the voice is silenced?

QuoteAgain, not true. I did not undergo therapy so that I can get access to hormones. HRT was never a goal. It is just where I have ended up because I have run out of other options. I was led to believe that the voice could be silenced with minimal physical changes. That has not been my experience, hence my current distress.

Again, my apologies for not being clear enough. I did understand that you took hormones hoping that it would silence the voice that insists you be female. My false assumption was that the therapy (and electrolysis) were perquisites for the hormone therapy. What I meant to ask was what degree of possible physical changes you were/are ready to accept provided that the voice would be silenced, and what your thoughts and feelings are regarding them.

QuoteLow doses probably—usually—induce the change slowly, but you're taking a higher than normal dose. This would seem to imply that you're willing to accept even significant physical change. In any case, your appearance would be likely to drift away from the male norm sooner or later. What are your feelings regarding that?

QuoteI have become desperate. I just want the noise in my head to go away. If I had access to a gun I would be very afraid that I might pull the trigger just to silence the noise. I don't want to die, I want to live! But this inner voice is making it almost impossible.

I can see you must feel trapped in hell. It sounds like you'd accept even physical changes as long as the voice that says you should be female is silenced. I can only imagine how hard that must be.

QuoteAt first glance it seems that you hope that not feeling any change on the hormones means you're not transgender. If you've considered other possibilities, what are they?

QuoteI have been in and off this forum for over two years now. During that time I had tried to find an explanation for why I feel the way I feel. I would think that I am some kind of sick and twisted pervert, I am having a major midlife crisis, some other kind of mental illness that I don't know about. No explanation seemed to fit. I tried to accept that I am transgender, but I struggled to make that fit also. During the two years in this forum, a great many people suggested I try hormones. If I am trans, then I will feel better, if I am not trans then I would feel worse. I resisted. I did. It want to go on hormones. Eventually I could take no more and my therapist told me I should try hormones. As you know, I don't feel better or worse on the hormones. I feel no change at all. So now I'm back to square one wondering what the hell I am.

Yes—I see.
Personal experiences can only be anecdotal, but if it is of any help it took me several months on hormones to begin to forget the distress that had driven me to take them. Physical changes were just beginning to manifest, and could probably have been reversed should I have quit at that point.
To be more explicit, I did feel some euphoria at the beginning, but my situation was completely different from yours. I know I wished the changes although I was afraid. To you it would seem something you've been driven to as a last resort.

I'm glad that you're proceeding under medical supervision, as adjusting combinations and dosages may yet help. If your doctors are understanding, it should at least be easier to experiment than if you were on your own.

QuoteGiven that you just want to be a normal man, why did you choose the name Jayne01 for this forum?

Quote
The name is meaningless. I am not very imaginative at coming up with usernames. It just a name that keeps me anonymous. It's a transgender forum so I figured that a male would pick a female name. As I said, I am not a creative person.

My apologies if this question seemed inappropriate. It just crossed my mind that people tend to react differently if someone going by e.g. Brian expresses distress about this inner voice—and I wanted to eliminate the possibility that you were more accepting of it when you registered on the forum than you are now.

QuoteI hope this clarifies some things for you.

Yes it does. Thank you.

(Hugs).

This is so difficult, and you had hoped that this would finally allow some peace.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=98201.0

This is a short thread, taking about what happens to E and T in our bodies, and Cindy clarifies that for some folk, when they take Estrogen, their bodies can try to compensate, by producing wildly more T. This is compensated by taking blockers, for most folk and could be happening for you. Your endo would be the best person to talk this through with.

Having known you for a while, your current therapist has been able to make tangible progress, and has enabled you to try hrt, to see if that helps quiet the inner voice - I would be reluctant to consider changing again when you have obviously developed a positive relationship with them, in the short term.

If you are already *thinking* like a natal female, then hrt may have little influence on your thought patterns, but your brain may pick you up more on your behaviours, presentation speech patterns and more. If you think that you should be female, and yet every autonomous (automatic) response or reflex is habitually masculine, or trying to be masculine (habits die hard lol) then the personal level of self frustration can be agony - like a person who has had a life altering injury (or surgery), has moments when they will try to do something they used to be fully capable of, and not succeed.

I see parallels between your experiences and trauma survivors - and maybe that would be a good thing to talk through with your therapist.

(Hugs) - we are always here to talk (and maybe come up with a crackpot idea or two, too!)


Rowan

Wondering if there is a medical condition that allows this level of E in the blood stream but doesn't use it? Some inhibited receptor or something. Just appears at some point that the body isn't using the available E to do anything substantial. I believe something like this can occur in cisfemale as well. I may be recalling incorrectly but wanted to throw it out there.

Thanks Rowan,

I don't think my body is producing more T. My last blood test actually showed a reduction in T, and that is without blockers.

I have no intentions of changing therapists. She is the only friend I have ever known. She is like a best friend and sister rolled into one and has a very genuine caring for my well being and what is best did me. I am very lucky to have met her.

I don't know whether or not I think like a natal female. I only know that I think the way I think. I have nothing to compare it to, to know if it is male or female thinking.

I can do with some crackpot ideas since I feel like a crackpot. Lol.

Quote from: 2.B.Dana on July 31, 2017, 08:15:08 AM
Wondering if there is a medical condition that allows this level of E in the blood stream but doesn't use it? Some inhibited receptor or something. Just appears at some point that the body isn't using the available E to do anything substantial. I believe something like this can occur in cisfemale as well. I may be recalling incorrectly but wanted to throw it out there.

I can ask my dr when I see him again in 5 weeks. I don't understand any of this medical stuff. I just do what the dr tells me.

Maybe a way to look at this is to ask what is your goal.  It seems evident to me that you have gender dysphoria.  So, are you trying to make the gender dysphoria go away or are you trying to erase the gender incongruence that results in gender dysphoria?

HRT can help lessen or eliminate gender dysphoria but it cannot eliminate the gender incongruence.  This is simply something you're born with and likely originates in the physical structure of the brain.  So, trying to completely eliminate it and live as if it doesn't exist is simply warring against yourself and results in continuous inner turmoil.

Does that mean you automatically have to transition totally?  No.  But it does mean that you have to stop fighting your own nature if you want to have peace.  You have to love yourself and figure out what steps are necessary to relieve the dysphoria.  HRT can help with that a lot, but only if you're not fighting yourself at the same time.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

Quote from: Deborah on July 31, 2017, 09:06:41 AM
So, are you trying to make the gender dysphoria go away or are you trying to erase the gender incongruence that results in gender dysphoria?

Isn't that the same thing? How can you have one without the other? If you eliminate one of those things then you eliminate the other.

The gender incongruence IS the gender dysphoria. I don't understand what you mean.

By the way, I have never loved myself. I have been saying that I should have never been born for as long as I can remember. And now I believe that more than ever.

The gender incongruence is the fact that one's mental gender does not match their physical body.  As I said earlier, current science indicates that this likely originates in one's brain structure.  This is who you are.

Gender dysphoria is the mental distress and stress caused by the gender incongruence.  This is how you feel.

HRT, or any other treatment, can help change how you feel but cannot change who you are.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

Quote from: Dena on July 30, 2017, 10:34:19 PM
And that is what Jayne feels as well. Under a former account, Jayne attempted to wear a dress and was so disgusted that the dress was burned.

Here's my two cents on that:  I know I'm a transwoman, but I haven't started hrt yet.  I have worn womens clothes before, which made me happy until I saw myself in the dress.  I am so repulsed by the "guy" wearing a dress that I refuse to wear womens clothes anymore, until I'm more feminine appearing.  I don't know if this is how Jayne feels or not, but I wanted to add that to the discussion.
I wanted to believe that I wasn't trans for any reason that I could think of, but that's not the right way to tackle the issue.  If you think you're trans, the only way to know for sure is to go through the motions with an open mind.

Also, just because you're a transwoman doesn't mean you have to be a "girly girl"

I am not a woman or transwoman. I am a man. A pathetic man but a man nonetheless. I will be the man I was born to be if it damn well kills me. With any luck it will kill me and I will finally have some peace.

You can't go home again.  Believe me, if there was a cure, I would sign up.  I long for the days when I thought it was just a fetish, I was in denial about my true nature, I was super
busy and preoccupied, and i only dealt with cross gender issues a couple times a week for a short period of time ;).

I'm a very rational, highly critical thinker, and I'm completely convinced that if one's brain is wired tg, it's for life.  And so the question then becomes, what to do about it?  There are a multitude of people on this site that purport to be mostly happy after socially or medically transitioning, or
both.  And there are others on hrt and nothing else, and some that live androgenously, and some that are are weekend warriors, and some only at conferences, etc, etc.  Personally, my brain won't let me go back to denial.  I wish it would.  Checking out seems like a poor choice, given all the possible solutions that may give you a reasonably content life.  That's what i tell myself anyway ;)

I can't stand the way i look when i cross dress.  I see the guy in a dress.  It's painful.  So i don't very often.  I think i'm going to take the slow incremental route, and get off at the station where the background noise stops.  I acknowledge that might mean taking the train to the end of the line, but I hope not.  First stop will be laser hair removal on my face while most of it's still dark.

Oh, since i moved to acceptance, i've decided my brain isn't male, and it's not female.  It's wired tg, and if i had to pick sides, tg female.  Nuanced I know.

Good luck.  You are not alone :)

Thank you all for your support. I can't keep dong this. My wife just told me this is like the end of the world for her. Whether I kill myself or become a woman, for her it is the same thing. So I can no longer be responsible for her misery. I would rather live out the rest of my days in complete and utter misery than to co Tunis to hurt my wife.

I wish you all well. Goodbye!
This time I'm not coming back.

I wish you well :-/

This is so terribly sad. We really need a society that is more widely educated about what it means to experience gender dysphoria.  It is practically impossible for cis people to comprehend what we are going through. If they did comprehend just a little, it would make things so much easier.

Jayne, I can understand where your wife is coming from because to her the person she married is dead. Often to our relatives it feels that way. It's going to take her time to adjust, but at the same time you will need time to adjust and sort things out too. Transition affects everyone around us and as result is an adjustment that everyone has to get used to regardless of how they feel. Sounds like you and her both have a lot to figure out. Please don't make any rash decisions and do please get some help. Hormones are not a magic cure of any kind and frankly can do just as much harm as they can good.Mentally how your doing and how the people around you are doing can affect things more than is sometimes realized. The transition I just completed was my second one partially for that reason. Mentally I wasn't ready the first time. So those around me really did get into my head which didn't help the situation at the time. So please do get some help. Good luck and Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Jayne01 on August 01, 2017, 12:58:05 AM
Thank you all for your support. I can't keep dong this. My wife just told me this is like the end of the world for her. Whether I kill myself or become a woman, for her it is the same thing. So I can no longer be responsible for her misery. I would rather live out the rest of my days in complete and utter misery than to co Tunis to hurt my wife.

I wish you all well. Goodbye!
This time I'm not coming back.

I tried deleting my account but kept coming back and undeleting it. I want to stop being trans and I can't do it. I don't blame my wife for feeling the way she does. She is going through grieving and suffering. I would do anything to be the man she wants me to be. I have tried so hard but I can't do it.  I have been lying in bed crying hysterically for the past half an hour. I am sobbing as I write this. This hurts so much. I just want the pain to stop. Sorry if this doesn't make much sense. I can't really see what I am typing through the tears.

It makes perfect sense.  I, and probably many more, had these exact feelings.

I firmly believe however that one becomes a better person once they make peace with themselves in some manner.  I did anyway.  It is much easier to be a loving spouse when I'm not constantly mired in the depths of depression and self hatred.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

It makes total sense to me. Been there and done that exactly as you describe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It hurts so much. What I am feeling right now is the worst most raw pain I have ever experienced. I can't even begin to describe it.

Jayne, that is very common to feel that way. Your struggling to under what is going on along with fighting yourself over everything. Let alone what your spouse said to you is only causing you to hurt more. Fact is it does get better in time and therapy is a huge part of that. Secondly, you need to stop fighting yourself because it is only causing you more pain right now. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Jayne01 on August 01, 2017, 12:20:03 PM
It hurts so much. What I am feeling right now is the worst most raw pain I have ever experienced. I can't even begin to describe it.

From what you are sharing it sounds like your basic conflict is between the way you feel you are, i.e. transgender, and the way your wife wants or demands you to be, i.e. cisgender.

So I'm going to share/paraphrase with you something now that my therapist (who btw has been doing this for many years and has helped many people successfully transition) told me that was central to my process:

"In my experience, the people who are most successful transitioning are the ones who have support from other people."

If your wife is drawing a red line here, and you feel that you can't live without her, then that's they main problem that you have to address.  It sounds like she is making it a choice for you between being happy and healthy or staying stuck in the miserable place that you find yourself in now.
If she is unwilling or unable to offer the support you need then I would suggest you seek that support elsewhere.

Quote from: Jayne01 on August 01, 2017, 12:20:03 PM
It hurts so much. What I am feeling right now is the worst most raw pain I have ever experienced. I can't even begin to describe it.

If you don't mind, besides this voice? Is their anything ells about you, that could be responsible for feeling as though you should of been born a girl? eg, Your favourite colour is pink. (Not saying it is, just an example)
I'm trying to figure out, what is it about you that makes you feel "not normal"

Because, I saw you say your a man? This could be denile or It could be That you actually are a man, that for some reason feels as though they are not normal, if this is the case, besides the voice you hear, what about you if anything make you feel not normal?

Some or your Likes, dis-likes, some hopes? Desires? or Dreams?
If so, what are they?

Describe a normal man?
Are you like that? if not, what ways are you different?
Please, share them if you will.

A lot of your distress could be stemming from not conforming to a stereo type. And I can tell you, no two men are the same. And men differ more then you might think, because a lot of men, Hide the ways they don't conform to the stereo type. And some men will put other men down and insult them, often using femininity as an insult when another man doesn't conform to this stereo type. And in some cases, the men they insult differ in a way they themselves differ and this insulting is done by way of hiding their own insecurities.

(Disclaimer I am not saying all men do this, only some)

I just want to understand YOU better, most of us here understand transgender in our own ways, However each and everyone of us here are all so very different. I saw you mention, that you chose a woman's name, because you figured that men who come here choose woman's names. That is not the case, for the most part, it is the woman here that choose woman's names, and the men men's names.

I only point this out, because this type of action is called, social conformity, Doing what you believe is supposed to be done, and/or what you expects is expected of you. Is this how you are away from here? Do you want to do and be able to do what is expected of you? Do you desire to be the way other people say a man should be?

This type of thinking Is very harmful for everyone's, emotional well being. And I do mean everyone's. Man Woman, Trans and CIS alike. This Hurts and causes us to be ashamed of our selves for the ways we don't as individuals conform to what is expected. Social Expectations, are partly a result of Peer pressure. Do you feel pressure to be a certain way? Are you Insulted for not being "Normal"

Please for you safety forget trying to be normal, Be yourself, a person, an individual, Because the real normal, is being yourself. Because we as individuals, ourselves is all anyone ever should be.

And Although this site, is a transgender support site, Before many of us came out, we spend years of our lives trying to be "Normal" and its not until we realise the expected Normal is an illusion, that we are able to live much more peacefully, by moving toward the true normal of individuality. And freedom of expression.

And if you are here as a CIS man who feels as though they are not normal due to social expectations, that too is something many of us can help you with too. Being a member of this site doesn't mean you are trans. And you dont need to be trans to be a member either.

After continuous crying for a couple of hours and then falling asleep, I now feel a little better. Thank you all for your support.

I should clarify some things. My wife has not given me any kind of ultimatum. I know she loves me the way I love her and she is trying very hard and doing the best she can. We both try and support each other through this process. I think what happened yesterday was that we both had a very bad day, each for our own reasons. We both ended up at our worst at the same time, so neither of us was in a clear mental state to support the other.

In the recent post I made where I said I was a man, that was out of sheer frustration. Being a normal man with normal guy problems is something I can handle and something that I wish was true. Instead I am not a normal man, I am transgender with all the problems and hardships that come with being transgender. That is something that I am not handling very well, so I have frequent breakdowns.

The reason I chose the username  Jayne when I first joined 2 years ago was a simple process, at least it seemed simple to me. I wanted an anonymous name. My real name is John, an anonymous person is referred to as John Doe for a male and Jane Doe for a female. Since I was questioning my gender, I went with Jane, and I changed the spelling to Jayne because I liked it better that way. I am not good at coming up with creative names. It's just a twist on the name I already have.

I have felt a huge amount of disappointment by not having any reaction to the HRT. I have read so many reports that starting hormones makes people feel better almost immediately and st the very least it allows them to think more clearly. I have not experienced any of that. As I have mentioned before in this thread and other threads, the hormones have had zero effect on me. When I first joined here, people used to tell me I should try hormones as a form of test. If I am trans, then I will feel better. If I am big trans, then I will feel worse. I haven't felt better or worse. You could argue that taking hormones has made me feel worse due to not making me feel any different. So I used that flimsy logic to say that I am not trans. If I could make myself not be trans, life would be so much easier, so I have a deep desire to not be trans. But that desire may as well be a wish for the sun to rise in the west and set in the east, it just isn't going to happen.

I am unable to describe to you my likes and dislikes and give you reasons why I think I might be trans. That requires a level of self understanding which I do not possess. All I can say is that after 2 years of intense therapy, I can now identify a "feeling", for which there is no logical explanation, that tells me I should be female. I am unable to put my inner thoughts and emotions into words. I don't have that capability, I never have. That may be part of the reason why I am struggling so much with this. It takes a lot of effort for someone on the outside to understand me. They have to really get inside my head and understand how my mind works to be able to truly "get" me. My therapist has managed to do that. She has become my closest and dearest friend after my wife, because she is the only person who understands how my brain works. With her help, I just "know" that I am trans. That is the best explanation I can give you as to why I think I am transgender. It's not much of an explanation, but that's the best I can do.

I see my therapist today. Hopefully she will reboot my brain the way she usually does and I will be back to my "normal" self.

Quote from: Jayne01 on August 01, 2017, 04:54:31 PM
The reason I chose the username  Jayne when I first joined 2 years ago was a simple process, at least it seemed simple to me. I wanted an anonymous name. My real name is John, an anonymous person is referred to as John Doe for a male and Jane Doe for a female. Since I was questioning my gender, I went with Jane, and I changed the spelling to Jayne because I liked it better that way.

Smiles, Its good to have things you like in your life. And im glad that you a have something here you like, when you visit. Even if ti is, just a name. (Names make all the difference), Im glad your Feeling Better.

Quote from: Jayne01 on August 01, 2017, 04:54:31 PM
I should clarify some things. My wife has not given me any kind of ultimatum. I know she loves me the way I love her and she is trying very hard and doing the best she can. We both try and support each other through this process. I think what happened yesterday was that we both had a very bad day, each for our own reasons. We both ended up at our worst at the same time, so neither of us was in a clear mental state to support the other.

You say your wife is supportive and I won't disagree with you but is that support supported by the real story.   Scanning thru your previous posts, since you reactivated a couple of weeks ago, time and again you come back to the same theme. "I want to transition, but I don't want to hurt my wife."  Is your wife fully aware of how you are sacrificing yourself and how miserable you feel all the time? 

Absolutely! She is very painfully aware how distressed I am. But I am also aware how distressed she is. For her, her husband and her dreams are disappearing before her eyes. I can't take from her the chance to grieve what she believes to be losing. It is true that I will always be the same person on the inside despite what I may end up looking like on the outside. I may very well end up a much happier and better person. She needs time to process any changes just as much as I do.
It kills me to see her in any kind of pain, especially knowing that I am the cause of the pain. It is not my fault I am trans, but it is because I am trans that she is in pain. I would do anything to ease her pain, including sacrifice my own happiness. I just haven't found a way to do that without causing her more pain, because she cannot stand to see me suffering.

It is very complicated and seems that there is no solution. I think the only solution that would work is to go as slow as possible and give each other time to adapt.

Also, when I say I "want" to transition, that isn't entirely true. It's my inability to find the right words. I "want", or have an inner desire, to transition because that would make me the female that the voice inside me wants me to be. But I don't want to want to transition. Does that make any sense? I'm sorry, but I'm not good at choosing the right words to describe feelings.

I think I understand a bit more.

Your transgender. You love your wife, and although you want to be normal not transgender, like we all do. For you this normalness, for lack of a better word, is toward the masculine side because of how much you love your wife and don't want to loose her.. see her go though the pain she is going through as a result of your transition?

You do want to transition. Your inner voice, your inner most desire, your consciousness, and/or your Soul is telling you this. However what this will cause, is causing, or might cause, is something that you don't want, and/or wish wasn't happening.

Is that about right?

That is more or less correct. Even if my wife was 100% ok with me transitioning, it would still feel like a devastating blow to go down the transition path. It's not how I thought my life would pan out. We should be on top of the world right now. We recently paid off our mortgage, I have a very good job that I enjoy, we get to travel around the world more than most people. We have a great life. If I start transitioning, it feels like we would be setting ourselves back years with increased expenses and spending most of my free time doing trans stuff (electrolysis, therapist, etc) rather than doing fun things. It feels like all the hard work we put into paying our mortgage as quickly as possible has not had the exciting result it should have had. Our struggles have shifted from financial to completely life changing.

Quote from: Jayne01 on August 01, 2017, 06:48:33 PM
That is more or less correct. Even if my wife was 100% ok with me transitioning, it would still feel like a devastating blow to go down the transition path. It's not how I thought my life would pan out. We should be on top of the world right now. We recently paid off our mortgage, I have a very good job that I enjoy, we get to travel around the world more than most people. We have a great life. If I start transitioning, it feels like we would be setting ourselves back years with increased expenses and spending most of my free time doing trans stuff (electrolysis, therapist, etc) rather than doing fun things. It feels like all the hard work we put into paying our mortgage as quickly as possible has not had the exciting result it should have had. Our struggles have shifted from financial to completely life changing.

You can make going foe electrolysis trips fun. Make A day out of it. Get a later appointment, and spend some time doing other stuff before.

Any Ideas? eg, visiting different cafe's.


Transitioning, doesn't need to take over your life does it?

Electrolysis or going to the therapist or endo is a whole day event. It takes me 2 hours to get to each of those places, 2 hours to get back plus the appointment time. Electrolysis I have been doing in 3 and sometimes 4 hour sessions to get it over and done with. So each of those events is basically a whole day outing which leaves no time to do anything else. My life is work and trans stuff......

Quote from: Jayne01 on August 01, 2017, 07:09:18 PM
Electrolysis or going to the therapist or endo is a whole day event. It takes me 2 hours to get to each of those places, 2 hours to get back plus the appointment time. Electrolysis I have been doing in 3 and sometimes 4 hour sessions to get it over and done with. So each of those events is basically a whole day outing which leaves no time to do anything else. My life is work and trans stuff......

So, your making, something you wish you didn't have to do, take up an entire day? Without, Anytime spent on things you do want to do? If you have 3 hours to spend getting Electrolysis, Surely you can sacrifice, some of that time to spend doing more enjoyable things with your wife? It might go a long way towards making being trans less of an inconvenience for you both.

Does your wife go with you to your therapist? Doing as much of your talking about trans stuff with her at these appointments, Might mean less arguments about it, and more time to talk about none trans things with each other :)

Its Gone 1am Here I need to go to sleep. Illl check back after work to morrow. :) Untill then. Take care

My wife comes to some therapist appointments. I work odd hours. We don't get too many days off together. I try to leave those days free where possible and cram the trans stuff into the days she is working.

You misunderstand, we don't have arguments. We are both hurting badly with the trans stuff and neither of us are very good at putting our emotions into words.

Sleep well. Thank you for your input. I appreciate you taking the time to help.

Today I have been busy with my car. I have it for sale and someone was coming to look at it. As it turned out, they agreed to buy it. All morning, I have not felt the dysphoria like I have in the past. When I noticed it wasn't there, I thought to myself I don't even want to be a girl. I am happy the way I am.
This whole back and forth is making me crazy. Why can't my brain just pick a side and stay there so I can make some kind of decision?

Have the meds finally started to kick in.?? Watching this space....

Rowan

I honestly don't know what is happening with the meds. I can't say that I feel better or worse. It is causing me great confusion. Add to that the moments where I am convinced that I absolutely don't want to be female and actually seem happy being a guy, followed by moments where the dysphoria goes off the charts. I can't get my head around what is going on. I have never been someone who can understand my own emotions. I can't identify what my feelings are. It is like a foreign language that I don't understand.

At my last therapy session, my therapist suggested that I just stay on the hormones for about 3 months and just wait to see what physical changes may happen. Then, maybe the physical changes might trigger an emotional response that I can understand. I have increased my dosage again. I am now on the maximum dose my dr recommended before I go back to see him in about 4 weeks.

So to answer your question? No, I am not noticing anything from the meds.

Quote from: Jayne01 on August 03, 2017, 04:19:23 PM
Add to that the moments where I am convinced that I absolutely don't want to be female and actually seem happy being a guy, followed by moments where the dysphoria goes off the charts

When you say Dont want to be female, is that because you feel happy as a guy?
And when you say happy as a guy, do you say guy because your in guy mode?

Although you are in guy mode, your still on hormones, the hormaons could be contributing to your happiness, do you think that might be the case?

If this is the case, confusing being happy in guy mode mode, as happy as a guy, and then feeling as though you dont need to be female, might be causing your dysphoria spike.

Quote from: ButterflyVickster on August 03, 2017, 05:49:45 PM
When you say Dont want to be female, is that because you feel happy as a guy?
And when you say happy as a guy, do you say guy because your in guy mode?

When I say "don't want to be female" I mean there are times when the dysphoria is gone and I am happy doing what I am doing as male me. During those times, if I notice the dysphoria is gone, I try to think if I want to be a girl and the answer is "no". I just feel like a normal guy. I don't want female parts or any of it.

Then something will happen and my dysphoria would get triggered and I want to be a girl again. It is very confusing.

Quote
Although you are in guy mode, your still on hormones, the hormaons could be contributing to your happiness, do you think that might be the case?

I wondered if it was the hormones making me feel this way, but these moments are not new. They existed before I started hormones.

Quote
If this is the case, confusing being happy in guy mode mode, as happy as a guy, and then feeling as though you dont need to be female, might be causing your dysphoria spike.

I don't know if I understand what you mean. If by guy mode you mean that I know I am a woman but presenting as a guy, then that is not what I am feeling.......I think???!? I am happy to be a guy. Those moments make me doubt I am trans at all. It causes me great distress having these guy moments and then all of a sudden the dysphoria kicks in and throws my brain into meltdown.

I don't have the ability to distinguish between knowing if what I am feeling is the root cause or a reaction to another feeling. In other words, I don't know if I am happy as a normal cis guy or if the happiness is a reaction to something else. And then when I think I should be female, I don't know if that is a real deep down desire or a reaction to something else. I can't apply any kind of logic to any of this so that it makes sense to me. I was hoping the hormones would help remove some of this confusion, but it seems the confusion has only become worse.

Jayne,

Quote from: Jayne01 on August 03, 2017, 07:08:21 PM
When I say "don't want to be female" I mean there are times when the dysphoria is gone and I am happy doing what I am doing as male me. During those times, if I notice the dysphoria is gone, I try to think if I want to be a girl and the answer is "no". I just feel like a normal guy. I don't want female parts or any of it.

Something bothers me, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Please let me ramble a bit as try to find out what it is.

I'm happiest when I'm not thinking of anything gender related. When I do think of it I get a sense of something being wrong. I guess that sense of wrongness is what people refer to as dysphoria.

Now, when I'm happy I don't think about being male or female. What jolts me away from that happiness is when something brings home that I'm not what feels right to me.

Due to this even the ostensibly positive fact that strangers I meet assume me to be female and treat me as such causes conflict because I think I must be either consciously or unconsciously ensorcelling them to think so.

Based on what little I know about completely normal males and females, they seem to mostly think about being what they are when it somehow brings them joy. It usually seems somehow related to some physical, social or sexual aspect. That joy seems to be unambiguously reaffirming.

"This is what I am. It makes me happy."

Any happiness I feel about these aspects, on the other hand, is bittersweet.

"This is good. I like it—but it doesn't bring satisfaction or happiness."

What I do know is that in my case skills, knowledge and aptitudes can be unambiguously satisfying. Although a part of what makes me me they are also irrelevant to what I am. When I hold a camera I'm using a skill and feel happy. When in front of a camera I feel like a deer facing headlights. The result, whatever it may be is not me. (A good photographer presents to the world the not the object itself, but the attraction—whether it be beauty or hideousness—that draws him to eternalize it.)

While some men seem to think being male is a perquisite to their abilities, to me physical and mental capabilities are safe and neutral. I'm physically strong. I like balancing. I can find out how things work and how to make them work better. People ask me to do things based on other things they've seen me do. I like all of that.

However, if the above would hinge on me being brawny and rough and having a beard that would cover all of my face except for the eyes and nose it would only make me feel unhappy.

Ah. Here it is.

Jayne, when you're happy doing something as a male and the dysphoria is gone, do you think the "as a male" part contributes more to the happiness you feel, or the "doing something?" If the former (as a male) is essential, then I do understand your confusion. If the latter (doing something) is the key, could it perhaps be that you simply feel good and don't feel dysphoria because you're doing something you like, and the "as a male" part it is not very relevant?

Jayne, I consider my being trans as a first world problem and that's true in both the normal sense -- I live in a modern world and am as healthy and prosperous as I could ask for, on the other hand, the rigid ideas about gender are social constructs, not really inherent and by all accounts many hunter-gatherer tribes take gender differences in stride.

If your quandary is simply that transitioning will cost you some material wealth or leisure time, I'm sorry, I have little sympathy. My career isn't affected today by transition the way it would have been when I first realized I'm trans. Even at that, compared to many others I'm fundamentally employable in a variety of fields and my GCS has been covered by insurance. Lots of people I know don't have those advantages.

Lastly why not be content with being somewhere between genders? There's nothing written that says you have to identify as either binary or whether or how you would go about transitioning. Also, panicking never helps. You're treating this as a crisis, that's probably why your wife is. I suggest stepping back, accepting that you are who you are and that figuring exactly what that means may take some time to work out.

I'm not saying it's easy, it's not. Most people transition when the difficulties of confirming to assigned gender become worse than the difficulties of transition. For me being post-op feels pretty darned good at 14 weeks. As much as the first 6-8 weeks post op were difficult, they're far better than all the years I struggled with knowing something was wrong but not knowing what.

Quote from: Jayne01 on July 31, 2017, 09:14:21 AM
By the way, I have never loved myself. I have been saying that I should have never been born for as long as I can remember. And now I believe that more than ever.

I could have written this, and more, a hair over 8 years, before I came to the point in my life I needed to take the Trans-Beast on for real. My wife was absolutely shocked when we first started dating when she asked me one of her typical questions "What are your Hopes, Wishes, and Dreams?" ......... Blank stare in return. What are those? I one hope, one wish, one dream since like the age of 4. By 5 I saw it was likely never to be. By 7 I knew I would never be. Still I prayed, I hoped, I wished.... until I just gave up, mostly

In the ensuing decades I morphed into a lifeless, soulless "Thing" with no hopes, wishes, or dreams; bar one give up on years earlier. A deep dark shame filled dream. Yet it turned out upon reflection of the many disasters of my life, that it wasn't that dream at the root of it, it was the lifetime of accumulated Shame & Guilt that doomed me.

I needed to fix myself, from the inside as there was no hope for the outsides. It was hard work. Many a night crying yourself to sleep. My poor Teddie Bear never the less, forgave me for the soaking he received.

An amazing thing happened during this healing process; I began to love myself. I began to not just love, more importantly to accept myself for who and what I am. It was and still hard work to but well worth it. I spent several decades doing things I know do not work. I hit upon something that does.

Sure, my wife isn't all that thrilled about some of the updates. Overall, she is very happy being with me as I am today, vs that "angry" thing she says I became. It has been a major struggle for her, probably more so then mine. She saw her entire world view and future blown up and years of lying and betray. All I saw the slight glimmer of hope that this new tack may yield positive outcome overall as opposed to the doomed future ahead.

Quote from: zirconia on August 04, 2017, 09:03:54 AM
Jayne, when you're happy doing something as a male and the dysphoria is gone, do you think the "as a male" part contributes more to the happiness you feel, or the "doing something?" If the former (as a male) is essential, then I do understand your confusion. If the latter (doing something) is the key, could it perhaps be that you simply feel good and don't feel dysphoria because you're doing something you like, and the "as a male" part it is not very relevant?

Zirconia, thanks for you detailed reply. I have asked myself that same question. I don't know the answer. I am not capable of interpreting my own feelings. When I think I feel a particular way, (happy, sad, or whatever) I don't know if that feeling is genuinely what I am feeling or what I "should" be feeling based on the situation. Sometimes I wonder if I am some kind of sociopath who is incapable of having feelings of my own.

Quote from: SadieBlake on August 04, 2017, 12:46:04 PM
If your quandary is simply that transitioning will cost you some material wealth or leisure time, I'm sorry, I have little sympathy. My career isn't affected today by transition the way it would have been when I first realized I'm trans. Even at that, compared to many others I'm fundamentally employable in a variety of fields and my GCS has been covered by insurance. Lots of people I know don't have those advantages.

No, that's not my problem. The company I work for has a good equal rights policy to cover everyone, including transgender. I'm not worried about losing my job and it is a very good job that has allowed my wife and I to live a comfortable life.

Quote
Lastly why not be content with being somewhere between genders? There's nothing written that says you have to identify as either binary or whether or how you would go about transitioning. Also, panicking never helps. You're treating this as a crisis, that's probably why your wife is. I suggest stepping back, accepting that you are who you are and that figuring exactly what that means may take some time to work out.

I don't understand non binary and living between genders. That doesn't compute in my brain. I can accept that some people feel comfortable and best identify non binary, but I cannot make that connection for myself. I cannot understand how someone can be neither male or female, or be both (unless you are intersex which I am not).

Quote from: JoanneB on August 04, 2017, 01:24:33 PM
I could have written this, and more, a hair over 8 years, before I came to the point in my life I needed to take the Trans-Beast on for real. My wife was absolutely shocked when we first started dating when she asked me one of her typical questions "What are your Hopes, Wishes, and Dreams?" ......... Blank stare in return. What are those? I one hope, one wish, one dream since like the age of 4. By 5 I saw it was likely never to be. By 7 I knew I would never be. Still I prayed, I hoped, I wished.... until I just gave up, mostly

As best as I can remember, I never had such dreams. When I was a child, I remember imagining myself growing up in my father's image. As a man, not a woman. How can my brain do a backflip and think I should be female after 40 years? Should it not have been a lifelong desire?

Quote from: Jayne01 on August 04, 2017, 06:57:02 PM
I don't understand non binary and living between genders. That doesn't compute in my brain. I can accept that some people feel comfortable and best identify non binary, but I cannot make that connection for myself. I cannot understand how someone can be neither male or female, or be both (unless you are intersex which I am not).

For my part I can't understand how someone can't understand it, but I'll try to explain. I'm part man, part woman. Sometimes I know the man is driving the body, sometimes the woman is (most times). I feel a change, or more aptly, suddenly notice that a change has happened. I know that's really technical stuff, but if you read it slow a couple times it should become clear.  :laugh:

Non-binary/genderfluid/two spirit persons are the true unicorns in the world.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

Hugs, Devlyn

For me non binary is the equivalent of trying to travel in opposite directions at the same time. It sounds like an impossible scenario.

That describes bi-gender to me, but bi-gender people aren't going opposite directions, they're coexisting.

Quote"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." - Arthur Conan Doyle

Non-binary is not impossible, nor is it even improbable. I too thought it was a somewhat wacky idea, until it became a possibility for me.

And maybe I had it easy, I never had any real questions about who and what I am. I always knew I wasn't a man. There were some minor issues sorting out specifics of whether I was nonbinary or a binary woman. As it turns out, I seem to be kind of on the cusp of both, in the end, binary woman won out.

Quote from: Jayne01 on August 04, 2017, 06:57:02 PM
No, that's not my problem. The company I work for has a good equal rights policy to cover everyone, including transgender. I'm not worried about losing my job and it is a very good job that has allowed my wife and I to live a comfortable life.

Which is what I thought - but you *did* say that you didn't want to stop enjoying the things you get to do with your success. And I'm sorry but you contradict yourself a lot, you said in your other thread what changes you did notice and I replied that those were things I experienced also. that there were a

Quote
I don't understand non binary and living between genders. That doesn't compute in my brain. I can accept that some people feel comfortable and best identify non binary, but I cannot make that connection for myself. I cannot understand how someone can be neither male or female, or be both (unless you are intersex which I am not).

I don't know as understanding is the point. For me this whole journey has been about recognizing (time after time) that my "understandings" have been wrong. You said you sometimes feel male, sometimes female. To me that simply sounds like non-binary which is why I suggested it.

Accepting a thing doesn't always require understanding it, it would seem you're pretty clearly trans. Then again people have certainly been able to think themselves all the way to gender confirmation surgery. The way I trust is to get quiet enough inside that you can feel what you are and what you want. Those IMO aren't things you can learn by analyzing.

QuoteAs best as I can remember, I never had such dreams. When I was a child, I remember imagining myself growing up in my father's image. As a man, not a woman. How can my brain do a backflip and think I should be female after 40 years? Should it not have been a lifelong desire?

Nope, late onset transexuals are hardly uncommon, I had no idea I was transexual until I was 41. I'd cross dressed for sexual reasons like twice in my life and fantasized about it more but never made the connection to being mtf.

Until yesterday the non-binary thing didn't compute in my brain either. It was just unfathomable to me and unworkable. So what happened? I went to a social event, dressed the way I usually do for such occasions, trousers, jacket, shirt and a loosely slung tie. I felt quite the suave guy in a crowd of mostly females, most of whom knew me from way back. I chatted with a few people, felt good about my larynx gently vibrating against my shirt collar. I was beginning to feel more my real male self than ever.

Then, one of my female friends whom I've not seen for a long time, expressed that she wasn't feeling so well. I was never big on empathy and expressing caring. Those emotions I considered to be female and I didn't want to be part of that stereotype.  In the past I would have just smiled and said that no doubt she'd feel better soon and walked away.  This time, I actually sat next to her, held her hand and listened to her woes. WOWEE! This is new! This is what females normally do. I actually felt OK doing that. It's like, now that I am free to identify as a male, I am also suddenly feeling free to express my feminine side. I felt like a soft, caring male. As I sat next to her, I remembered the cismales in my life who were in fact caring and empathetic ( I came across two such specimens), and the transwomen who were strong and caring at the same time. I felt encouraged by them to explore both sides of me.

And it felt good! I didn't have the need to push it away. Is this non-binary? Hmmmm. Maybe it isn't even being non-binary, thinking about it. Maybe it is really just allowing myself to express the whole me.  Why are we ascribing how we feel to be either feminine or masculine? Haven't we all be socialized into fitting into these separate boxes? Is being free to express one's whole person being non-binary? If so, then that's me and I am understanding how this can work. This does not mean that I will suddenly wear women's fashions. That's not me at all, but it doesn't mean that I therefore sit on the purely binary spectrum.  Life allows for more creativity than that.

So are you continuing your therapy with these thoughts in your Dr's purvue? Does she understand that you feel this way and this is all she shares? I understand you feel your therapist is a good friend but perhaps you would be served by seeing a psychiatrist and exploring other avenues. Your experiences sound different than what most of us have known and it seems some fresh perspectives at this point may do you a world of good. Sometimes we get too close to someone and tbey can't be objective any longer. Perhaps that's why you feel you're in this limbo you're in. At any rate, I think a paradigm shift might help. Given the chaos that's your psyche right now, it certainly can't hurt. You know the old saying....keep doing what you've been doing and you'll keep getting what youve been getting.

Quote from: SadieBlake on August 04, 2017, 09:25:50 PM
...The way I trust is to get quiet enough inside that you can feel what you are and what you want. Those IMO aren't things you can learn by analyzing.

What do you mean feel what you are? Being me doesn't "feel" like anything. It just is! Is doesn't make me feel hit or cold , I don't feel any chronic pain. If I am hungry, I know it because my brain has analysed the symptoms like my belly might start growling. Therefore I must be hungry and should eat something. Everything depends on analysing the problem at hand and coming up with a solution.

Quote from: Jayne01 on August 05, 2017, 04:12:28 AM
What do you mean feel what you are? Being me doesn't "feel" like anything. It just is! Is doesn't make me feel hit or cold , I don't feel any chronic pain. If I am hungry, I know it because my brain has analysed the symptoms like my belly might start growling. Therefore I must be hungry and should eat something. Everything depends on analysing the problem at hand and coming up with a solution.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
    Albert Einstein, (attributed)

I have a bad habit of analyzing things to death. Doing so pays well but works like total crap in my personal life. In fact... I don't think it ever worked.

Also not ever working were the hundreds of things I tried over decades to keep the GD at bay. Well, actually to try to keep Joanne locked away in the deepest darkest dankest dungeon of my soul. Somehow she always managed to escape. So rather then beating her down once again in a futile effort to never see or think of her again, I figured I had to do something different. Something I would not normally do. Sort of like "Opposite George" from Seinfeld. (lot's of similarities between George & I)

Eventually we worked out how to peacefully coexist together. Over time more and more she ran things. We still split responsibilities. Sort of how I came to recon I needed to use the Non-Binary label for myself. It was for my sanity. My GD wasn't so severe that I needed a full medical & social transition, yet I needed some of the medical and some of the social in order to live and have Joy in my life rather then Shame & Guilt. If I thought I was in a No-Win, needed All-In situation I'd only grow increasingly depressed over time over an end game I'll never likely get to.

Jayne, I've just determined I am trans and not a CDer. I went to the doctor for referral to a therapist for this and generalized anxiety disorder with catastrophic thinking. I did a lot of things like you, made being male and female a black and white situation. Hung out with bikers and stoners, got into cars, bikes, trucks. Then with a family, I wanted to be the "perfect television dad" and still do act in that role. All the while, being a CDer and fighting CDing. Became too stressed, and self-medicated for years. Wishing I was just a normal guy. If you think about it, what I was doing above was "crossdressing" to feel like a version of the man I thought I should be. And then I'd crossdress to feel like a woman.

What helped me. Stop thinking in black and white. You may have built up this huge male persona like I did. But, it wasn't the real me. I am not John Wayne, though a part of me wishes I was. I am David Bowie, Mick Jagger, Rod Stewart as a man. I accept that.

I am dealing with the trans issue, but doing the above did help. You need to chill out on the fighting. Fear is the only darkness.

Quote from: Jayne01 on August 05, 2017, 04:12:28 AM
What do you mean feel what you are? Being me doesn't "feel" like anything. It just is! Is doesn't make me feel hit or cold , I don't feel any chronic pain. If I am hungry, I know it because my brain has analysed the symptoms like my belly might start growling. Therefore I must be hungry and should eat something. Everything depends on analysing the problem at hand and coming up with a solution.

Actually Jayne hunger is located in the limbic brain, specifically in the hippocampus and you don't actually need to think much about it at all to know you're hungry, in fact you can't access or affect the limbic brain with conscious thought (which is why depression and PTSD are hard or impossible to address with talk therapy).

This part of your brain is what connects to the body and is the seat of both pleasure and pain. That's what I'm talking about being quiet enough to feel.

I have never been what one might call a typical man's man. I'm not into football or tough muscle cars or bodybuilding or any macho male type activities. I had a motorbike for a while which I loved riding, but the only other people I knew with motorbikes would ride their bikes like they were trying to prove something. They would exceed all the speed limits, go around corners like they were on a race track and generally try to outdo each other. That all made me very uncomfortable. I was quite happy to just cruise around on my bike enjoying the outdoors. I ended up selling the bike because I didn't fit in with these people and would always get left behind in a group ride. I have never been like John Wayne nor have I ever tried to be like him. But that never made me think I wasn't man enough and should be a girl.

I'm not a doctor. I don't know what a limbic brain or hippocampus is. I have heard the term hippocampus but I don't know what it does. Being hungry was just an example I came up with. However there are many times that I would have to think about it to know I am hungry. I have missed many meals because I didn't realise I was hungry until I started getting a headache and feeling a bit woozie. I would then wonder what is wrong with me and realise that I haven't eaten. I tell myself that it must be hunger and lack of food that made me feel this way, so I would go eat something and then I'd feel better. So in my case, I often do need to think about it and analyse the symptoms to know I am hungry. So maybe this part of my brain you talk about that connects to the body has a broken connection.

Quote from: Jayne01 on August 05, 2017, 04:04:28 PM
I have never been what one might call a typical man's man. I'm not into football or tough muscle cars or bodybuilding or any macho male type activities. I had a motorbike for a while which I loved riding, but the only other people I knew with motorbikes would ride their bikes like they were trying to prove something. They would exceed all the speed limits, go around corners like they were on a race track and generally try to outdo each other. That all made me very uncomfortable. I was quite happy to just cruise around on my bike enjoying the outdoors. I ended up selling the bike because I didn't fit in with these people and would always get left behind in a group ride. I have never been like John Wayne nor have I ever tried to be like him. But that never made me think I wasn't man enough and should be a girl.

I too far from being a Man's Man. Former big fat target of derision. Yet I had a passion and a talent for "male" things. Like getting 400+ HP out of my 302 Camaro engine which was far faster in a 1/4 mile but not even close to the fun of 500+ HP out of a 454 cuIn former Corvette engine. Rice rockets were my friends and only vehicle able to on public roads to achieve my goal of tripling the posted 65 MPH speed limit.

BTW - I hope by "Those People" you mean Hardly Ableson owners. Those "guys" with what I call "Fragile H Syndrome" that forces them to remove the mufflers under the guise of "So the cars can hear me" Yeah, Right LOL. Oh and the Gorilla bars! WTF ???

I am sure many other "Adrenaline Junkies" have similar tales. We all have our own ways to Quiet the Noise. Or my favorite, the 3D's; Diversions, Distraction and Denial of the GD. It works, quite well, even for decades. But costs you your soul.

Quote from: amandam on August 05, 2017, 01:10:49 PM

What helped me. Stop thinking in black and white. You may have built up this huge male persona like I did. But, it wasn't the real me. I am not John Wayne, though a part of me wishes I was. I am David Bowie, Mick Jagger, Rod Stewart as a man. I accept that.

I am dealing with the trans issue, but doing the above did help. You need to chill out on the fighting. Fear is the only darkness.

+1 Binary Thinking only leads to pain

   "I must not fear.
    Fear is the mind-killer.
    Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
    I will face my fear.
    I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
    And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
    Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

Quote from: JoanneB on August 05, 2017, 06:47:18 PM
BTW - I hope by "Those People" you mean Hardly Ableson owners. Those "guys" with what I call "Fragile H Syndrome" that forces them to remove the mufflers under the guise of "So the cars can hear me" Yeah, Right LOL. Oh and the Gorilla bars! WTF ???

It was various bikes. Only one guy had a Harley, the others were dual sports and touring bikes. I had a sports tourer and a dual sport. I am also ashamed to say that the last bike I owned was a Harley. I don't know what I was thinking, it was not even remotely the type of bike I enjoyed riding. I can only put it down to temporary insanity! I sold it after a few months and currently have no bike. I don't even know what I would buy if I was to go looking for a new bike.

Quote from: Jayne01 on August 04, 2017, 06:49:24 PM
Zirconia, thanks for you detailed reply. I have asked myself that same question. I don't know the answer. I am not capable of interpreting my own feelings. When I think I feel a particular way, (happy, sad, or whatever) I don't know if that feeling is genuinely what I am feeling or what I "should" be feeling based on the situation. Sometimes I wonder if I am some kind of sociopath who is incapable of having feelings of my own.

Hi Jayne,

Thank you so much for sharing all this and in such a heartfelt manner. There seems to be a lot of wisdom and love in the replies you have received.

I have a good psychotherapist friend, herself trans, who thinks a lot of trans people are unhappy. I mention this because my friend's point is that transitioning may not always lead to a perfect solution in the manner in which we hope. There may, in some cases, be underlying issues which we also require addressing.

It's a tough (and possibly unpopular) message this, but someone wrote about gender fluidity. I increasingly feel this is an important concept: that we should not be gender absolutist. Most of us are probably somewhere between an idealised male and idealised female, rather sitting contentedly in one of those poles. That fluidity may be a helpful way for you to explore your own truth: perhaps with some hormones, but equally perhaps not.

What I would urge if you've not already done so is to find a really good psychotherapist or counsellor to work through that very point: finding what is right for you, your truth.

Good luck with this journey and all good wishes and love as you find your way.

Mandy x

I don't see it as a trans or not trans binary. If you discontinue HRT, you can still do everything else, even if you identify as a man.

Quote from: jentay1367 on August 05, 2017, 02:56:19 AM
So are you continuing your therapy with these thoughts in your Dr's purvue? Does she understand that you feel this way and this is all she shares? I understand you feel your therapist is a good friend but perhaps you would be served by seeing a psychiatrist and exploring other avenues. Your experiences sound different than what most of us have known and it seems some fresh perspectives at this point may do you a world of good. Sometimes we get too close to someone and tbey can't be objective any longer. Perhaps that's why you feel you're in this limbo you're in. At any rate, I think a paradigm shift might help. Given the chaos that's your psyche right now, it certainly can't hurt. You know the old saying....keep doing what you've been doing and you'll keep getting what youve been getting.

Sorry for the late reply. I somehow missed reading your post.
My current therapist is the 4th therapist I have seen in a little over 2 years. I don't want to find a 5th person to give them my whole life story from the beginning all over again. I don't think that would serve any purpose other than to annoy me. Besides, all 4 therapists have been telling me the same thing.

The one thing therapy has taught me is that it brings up all these little insignificant issues throughout your life, and somehow turns these little things into major problems. I have always thought myself to be a relatively simple person when it comes to emotions. With therapy, I have tried to become more "connected" with my emotions. That is a term that has no meaning to me, but I tried to go along with it. I don't get it. Apparently, one has to "listen" to their emotions and their feelings to know whether or not they are trans. I don't have that ability, I only understand logic and reasoning and scientific evidence. I work with facts, not "feelings".

I will very likely be terminating all future sessions with my therapist. Although she is one of the nicest, kindest people I have ever known, I have no desire to spend the rest of my life in therapy getting nowhere. I'm better off on my own.

I have also stopped taking my HRT. It wasn't doing anything anyway. I felt no different before, during or after taking the medication.

Quote from: JMJW on August 06, 2017, 06:38:15 AM
I don't see it as a trans or not trans binary. If you discontinue HRT, you can still do everything else, even if you identify as a man.

What do you mean by "do everything else"?

I have been catching up on this thread.  I can't say I've ready every word, but I have followed the gist of all the posts.

Jayne, the impression I get from reading your posts is that you see yourself as an innocent bystander.  You say that your brain wants one thing while it simultaneously wants the opposite.  That is a description of a bus with no one in the driver's seat.  At some point, you have to grab the wheel and, calling on everything you know, steer the bus in a direction whatever the consequences. 

You don't know the road ahead.  None of us do.  But you still have to drive the bus.  And if you end up in the wrong place, you just take another drive to get to the right place.  It's hard to navigate life without a road map.  You just take your best guess and go with it.

Quote from: KathyLauren on August 06, 2017, 09:55:11 AM
I have been catching up on this thread.  I can't say I've ready every word, but I have followed the gist of all the posts.

Jayne, the impression I get from reading your posts is that you see yourself as an innocent bystander.  You say that your brain wants one thing while it simultaneously wants the opposite.  That is a description of a bus with no one in the driver's seat.  At some point, you have to grab the wheel and, calling on everything you know, steer the bus in a direction whatever the consequences. 

You don't know the road ahead.  None of us do.  But you still have to drive the bus.  And if you end up in the wrong place, you just take another drive to get to the right place.  It's hard to navigate life without a road map.  You just take your best guess and go with it.

That is basically what I am trying to do here. I am taking the bus down the "I am not trans" road. I don't want to be trans, so why should I be trans. There are no tests that anybody can do to tell me if I'm trans or not, I've tried to find them but there are no such tests. They don't exist. What I am told is that I have to know what I feel. Well despite me repeatedly saying that I do not know what I feel, that is a concept I cannot understand, people keep telling me that is the only way to know if you are trans or not. So my conclusion is that since I cannot feel one way or the other, I am obviously not trans. I have also tried HRT, which many people on this forum have told me is as good a test as any to determine if you are trans or not. The HRT had zero effect on me, so that is another reason I am not trans.

Quote from: NoName01 on August 06, 2017, 10:07:42 AM
That is basically what I am trying to do here. I am taking the bus down the "I am not trans" road. I don't want to be trans, so why should I be trans. There are no tests that anybody can do to tell me if I'm trans or not, I've tried to find them but there are no such tests. They don't exist. What I am told is that I have to know what I feel. Well despite me repeatedly saying that I do not know what I feel, that is a concept I cannot understand, people keep telling me that is the only way to know if you are trans or not. So my conclusion is that since I cannot feel one way or the other, I am obviously not trans. I have also tried HRT, which many people on this forum have told me is as good a test as any to determine if you are trans or not. The HRT had zero effect on me, so that is another reason I am not trans.

Jayne you're far from the first to come here, claim to feel trans but not believe in feelings (and if you're such a student of science I fail to see how you can miss that fairly simple logical contradiction but I'm happy to leave that as an exercise for the reader).

If you think there are no tests then you haven't looked very hard. What has been concluded in research going back to the 80s is that male and female brains differ and that trans people's brains work similarly as their gender identity. In that earlier work the testing was done observing the effects of brain differences m vs f, principally in how left-right hemisphere operate differently.

The current direction in research is by fmri and it verifies what had been determined in earlier behavioral work that ftm and mtf brains are in fact congruent with gender identity rather than birth-assigned.

Those aren't diagnostic tests and won't be anytime soon, they're limited to research. What they do show is that people who identify as transgender are observably different. And since yes, we identify as trans through our feelings that does establish that those feelings are a valid diagnosis and yes most of us need help from therapists in working these things through.

However since you don't believe in any of that, I'm not sure why you're here. What I'm seeing is strawman arguments, I've seen them before and I'm sure I will again.

As Sadie points out, you do seem to be a Contrarian, and sorry to note, a bit self loathing. How any of this is productive to you is beyond me.  These arguments you present seem to be a bit oxymoronic and your circular logic simply will not help you or anyone reading this thread. I wish you well but wonder to what end this thread is bringing you?

P.S......And as Ashley points out in the next post, I too, wish you much love and peace. My post is meant to be an impetus for thought so you might better ponder your plight.

As Sadie and Jentay have pointed out this does seem like circuar logic and consession built. I do not judge as I was there too about 6 months ago. I realize and understand your pain in that regard. Still, i think you need to tell your gender therapist all of this. The exact same words you use here, tell her about them. I havent seem a gender therapist in over a year since I moved from large progressive city to a small town somewhat isolated from any actual big centers. I had to work these things out on my own and with very open minded counsellors who have some degree of understanding, but are not offical gender therpaists like they have at Kilinic in Winnipeg or Sherboune in Toronto. You have all that you need, you just seem so scared to make one decision either way and are stuck in the worst parts of the middle.

I wish you much love and peace-Ashley

Quote from: jentay1367 on August 06, 2017, 01:12:54 PM
These arguments you present seem to be a bit oxymoronic....

Are you calling me a moron? Surely this can't be true and I am misunderstanding the language you are using.

# oxymoron


## Noun

1. conjoining contradictory terms (as in `deafening silence')
   - Less specific
      - trope
      - figure of speech
      - figure
      - image



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Quote from: SadieBlake on August 06, 2017, 12:23:20 PM
If you think there are no tests then you haven't looked very hard. What has been concluded in research going back to the 80s is that male and female brains differ and that trans people's brains work similarly as their gender identity. In that earlier work the testing was done observing the effects of brain differences m vs f, principally in how left-right hemisphere operate differently.

I have asked to be tested to determine whether I am trans or not countless times, both in this forum and to each of my 4 therapists. Every time the answer was that there is no test. Maybe they can dissect a brain in a lab and determine that a trans brain is different from a cis brain but that does not help a person who is still alive. When I said that there were no tests, I was referring to some kind of diagnostic test to determine if I am trans or not. That type of test, I believe, does not yet exist. Please correct me if I am wrong and tell me where and how I have one of these tests done.

Thanks for the definition Deborah.

Now I need to clear something up before this thread gets totally derailed.

It seems that I am being attacked for not being transgender. The first thing anyone says here to someone new who comes along questioning their gender is that "only you can know if you are trans or not". So why is it now that I am telling you that I don't believe I am trans I am being told that I am trans and don't want to believe it. Am I not welcome here if I come to the conclusion that I am not trans? What do you know about me that I am not aware of? Please enlighten me.

Also, I should highlight that I have changed my username. Many people have asked me why I chose the username "jayne01" if I don't think I am trans. I did try to explain how that name came about, but to avoid any further confusion, I had the username changed to "NoName01".

I think they're just worried that you are suppressing this and that can be unhealthy. No one here wants you to be trans. It either is or isn't.

Yeah, you're throwing mixed signals is what's going on. Most cisgender people don't feel obligated to come here to Susan's and tell us that they're not transgender.

The self diagnosis part is true. There are no official tests you can take. But you can try this: Since you're not transgender, just walk away from the thoughts and don't look back. If you can do that, you're cisgender.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: NoName01 on August 06, 2017, 01:36:31 PM
I have asked to be tested to determine whether I am trans or not countless times, both in this forum and to each of my 4 therapists. Every time the answer was that there is no test. Maybe they can dissect a brain in a lab and determine that a trans brain is different from a cis brain but that does not help a person who is still alive. When I said that there were no tests, I was referring to some kind of diagnostic test to determine if I am trans or not. That type of test, I believe, does not yet exist. Please correct me if I am wrong and tell me where and how I have one of these tests done.

THE Official test
Q - Do you think you are trans? Y/N
if(Ans=='Y'){
  "Yes you are";
}
else{
   "No you're not";
}

Let me add something:

Quote from: JoanneB on August 06, 2017, 02:12:56 PM
THE Official test
Q - Do you think you are trans? Y/N
do
if(Ans=='Y'){
  "Yes you are";
}
elseif{
   "No you're not";
}
else{
   enter_therapy(not_decided);
}
while not_decided;

Quote from: NoName01 on August 06, 2017, 01:49:52 PM
It seems that I am being attacked for not being transgender. The first thing anyone says here to someone new who comes along questioning their gender is that "only you can know if you are trans or not". So why is it now that I am telling you that I don't believe I am trans I am being told that I am trans and don't want to believe it. Am I not welcome here if I come to the conclusion that I am not trans? What do you know about me that I am not aware of? Please enlighten me.

What I know about you is nobody who is CIS has the type of turmoil over their identity that you have. Therefore, I believe that you are transgender and have it pretty intensely. What is unclear to me is if you are bigender/gender fluid or if you are just resisting a transition because of how you perceive it will destroy your life. I know your job will tolerate a transition and your wife is helping however she can but for some unknown reason, you are still fighting it.

I also know it's not going away by it's self and your only hope for some kind of future will be to remain in therapy until you get this resolved one way or another.

Last I know that I am stubborn and as long as you remain on the forum I will do whatever I can to help you.

It's not that I felt an obligation to come here on the forum to announce I am not trans. I was already on the forum. I had questions, I thought I was trans but I have come to the conclusion I am not. I'm sorry I'm giving mixed signals. I am not a very good communicator, both in writing and even worse in person. It's a skill I never learnt very well.

As far as walking away from the thoughts, that is exactly what I believe is happening. Why the thoughts ever happened in the first place, I have no idea. Major midlife crisis maybe?

Joanne, according to your "official test" I am not trans.

Amandam, I am in therapy, so I have been down that "else" statement in your test. I think therapy has prolonged my state of confusion and made me think that I might be something I'm not.

its possible u have some gender issues n have magnified them with ur emotional turmoil. maybe if u start accepting u will find u r not a candidate for transistion.

Quote from: NoName01 on August 06, 2017, 03:15:04 PM
  I am in therapy, so I have been down that "else" statement in your test. I think therapy has prolonged my state of confusion and made me think that I might be something I'm not.

As I had previously shared, Therapy is no more therapy than oatmeal is a steak. Both foods mentioned are in fact food, but perhaps not what you need nor of the same quality or nutrition value. Perhaps what you need is a completely different therapist with a completely different tact and emphasis. I've no idea, but perhaps the therapist you have is causing your confusion. Since they're obviously of no help, it may behoove you to find another Doctor and begin afresh? It certainly may be of more value than coming here and shouting your denial. Not that we don't want to help, but we may be unable to offer you anything of value.

It may be that the HRT was having more effect than you thought.  That is quieting the dysphoria to the point that you think it's gone or that you have it conquered.  Since you have stopped the HRT you will have an answer soon enough.  For all of us who have tried that the crippling dysphoria and depression begins to come back pretty quickly, within a matter of weeks if not sooner.


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Noname you were here a year ago as jayne01, I thought I recognized your didactic style from

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,207772.0.html which ran on for some 27 pages of people trying to help you.

We exchanged a few PMs as well, welcome back.

You're not being attacked, rather I'd say being called on being a bit obtuse and failing to listen to advice. You come here, spout off a lot of stuff that trust me goes against the experience of almost all of those here and pick and choose which points made you'll argue with and not actually argue those fairly (i.e. strawman as I said before).

Now I have choices as to who I chat with, spend time on. I care about all people but I'd rather take time with those where my effort seems to generate some positive outcome. I'm unlikely to post again here, as we already had these conversations and as far as I can see they had not much effect then or now.

Best wishes, I ran myself around for a good long time before I accepted being trans but pass on medical intervention. That decision lasted me about 16 years by the end of that I was back in suicidal depression and decided to first start HRT and then prepare for GCS. I'm now 3½ months post-op, much happier, my relationship not only survived but we are doing better than we ever have (18+ years). I sincerely hope you work it out but I'm also not going to enable another run-around.

And I thought "I" catastrophized my gender issues. Jayne, you have deal with your emotional/anxiety response to all of this as welll as any gender issues. I accept that I am trans now. And I don't have to do anything about it, I don't have to transition, etc. The acceptance alone has brought me some peace. It was worth it.

I'm glad you have made you mind up. The stress this was causing you was evident. If at any point, you change your mine. You will still be welcome.

Identity Crisis' is difficult, And I realy am glad you have found some piece. Enjoy it wont you :)

Quote from: NoName01 on August 06, 2017, 09:29:09 AM
What do you mean by "do everything else"?

Crossdressing, support group, binding if that's your thing, vocal training, working on mannerisms, any hobbies or interests that allow for gender expression or reinforcement, like masculine things if you're ftm. Discontinuing HRT and dropping the previously preferred pronoun is taking only two steps back. It's not starting back at the beginning.

Thank you all for your time. This thread has obviously run its course and has turned into something I didn't intend it to turn into. I thought I had finally found done peace but it seems that is not good enough because that peace did not come the way it did for some of you trans folks. My communication skills quite clearly suck. What I thought was good news for me has turned into an argument. I am sorry that I am such an offensive personality to some of you.

I now understand why I kept deleting my previous accounts. I end up getting increasingly frustrated at my inability to adequately communicate what I am thinking/feeling and that frustration is reflected in what I write. People then misinterpret what I say and misunderstandings happen.

Once again, I apologise if I have offended any of you in any way.

Hi Noname

I just read through a good portion of this thread and I can see you really are having a hard time. I am no different to anyone else here, I didn't want to be trans, I wanted to be a cis male but I found out pretty quickly that I could not have that. It wasn't working for me...after 50 years the noise should have stopped if it was ever going to but it didn't. it just continued to get worse.

HRT was not the answer, crossdressing wasn't he answer, therapy wasn't the answer, cross living wasn't the answer but a combination of all those actually was. Maybe you need to do a combination of things to help you get past this part of your life.

You are not doing anything to your wife, that implies intent...you have no intent to hurt or distress her. Your intent is to do the opposite. This is part of the reason you have so much difficulty as the person you love with all your heart and soul is also the person that will, apart from you, be affected far more than anyone else. I had some real difficulty with this, I was lucky that my wife got some therapy and accepted that in order for us to both be happy...(if I was unhappy then so was she)...then transition was the best solution for us both. Not the only one but the one with the best outcome.

I hope you find your peace, whatever that may be.

Quote from: ElizabethK on August 06, 2017, 07:15:27 PM
Hi Noname

I just read through a good portion of this thread and I can see you really are having a hard time. I am no different to anyone else here, I didn't want to be trans, I wanted to be a cis male but I found out pretty quickly that I could not have that. It wasn't working for me...after 50 years the noise should have stopped if it was ever going to but it didn't. it just continued to get worse.

HRT was not the answer, crossdressing wasn't he answer, therapy wasn't the answer, cross living wasn't the answer but a combination of all those actually was. Maybe you need to do a combination of things to help you get past this part of your life.

You are not doing anything to your wife, that implies intent...you have no intent to hurt or distress her. Your intent is to do the opposite. This is part of the reason you have so much difficulty as the person you love with all your heart and soul is also the person that will, apart from you, be affected far more than anyone else. I had some real difficulty with this, I was lucky that my wife got some therapy and accepted that in order for us to both be happy...(if I was unhappy then so was she)...then transition was the best solution for us both. Not the only one but the one with the best outcome.

I hope you find your peace, whatever that may be.

Thank you Elizabeth. It seems that you have best understood everything I have been trying to say. Therapy on its own has not entirely worked for me. It has helped in some areas but not in addressing the trans issue. I had tried crossdressing and it generally made me feel quite depressed. The HRT, as I have mentioned has had zero psychological effect. The thought of starting to have physical changes (ie breast growth) was freaking me out. Neither my wife or I have noticed any physical changes, but both my therapist and endocrinologist have told me that my face is starting to look a little different. So I stopped taking the hormones before I permanently ruin myself. I guess the next few weeks will show if the HRT was having any psychological effects. I'm not expecting anything since I have not felt any changes while I was on the hormones.

Since stopping the hormones and telling myself that I am not trans, I have found some level of peace. From what I understand, you cannot "will" away being trans, which is another reason that I don't think I am trans. If I was trans, I shouldn't just tell myself that I'm not trans and be at peace with that. I'm not entirely at peace with not knowing what has been happening to me, but it seems to be manageable not knowing.

Quote from: NoName01 on August 06, 2017, 07:34:45 PM
Thank you Elizabeth. It seems that you have best understood everything I have been trying to say. Therapy on its own has not entirely worked for me. It has helped in some areas but not in addressing the trans issue. I had tried crossdressing and it generally made me feel quite depressed. The HRT, as I have mentioned has had zero psychological effect. The thought of starting to have physical changes (ie breast growth) was freaking me out. Neither my wife or I have noticed any physical changes, but both my therapist and endocrinologist have told me that my face is starting to look a little different. So I stopped taking the hormones before I permanently ruin myself. I guess the next few weeks will show if the HRT was having any psychological effects. I'm not expecting anything since I have not felt any changes while I was on the hormones.

Since stopping the hormones and telling myself that I am not trans, I have found some level of peace. From what I understand, you cannot "will" away being trans, which is another reason that I don't think I am trans. If I was trans, I shouldn't just tell myself that I'm not trans and be at peace with that. I'm not entirely at peace with not knowing what has been happening to me, but it seems to be manageable not knowing.

Hiya, yes you can indeed tell yourself that and it will work, for a while - it's called denial. How long it lasts, is uncertain, and varies person to person.

An indication that it's no longer working is simply to keep a tally each day of how many times you need to remind yourself - the more times it happens, the less effect it has been having.

Anxiety around change is understandable, and for some that fear is so profound (myself included), that it can drown all other feelings. I need heavy sedation for procedures that are simple for most, and it's crippling, not mention expensive, inconvenient and generally bad for my health. The question was do I endure months/years of chronic panic attacks, or find ways to cope - my choice was guided by that.

You're always welcome, and we'll always try to help - even if the wires do get a little crossed sometimes.

You are part of our family, always will be.

Rowan

It might be a state of denile you in at the moment, but truth be told, we (you and ourselves) Wont know that untill if and when these feelings surface again.

I wouldnt worry too much about what might happen. Just go with how you feel right now. If you ok and can continue as a you are, then that is what you should do.

If these feeling arise again and you need some more insight in order to understand, or continue not understanding, then that is what you should do to.

You are you no matter what we say, and dont feel as though you should be any different on acount of that.
The road to personal development is all about making changes to better youself. And if not stressing yourself out trying to understand if your trans or not is cripeling, and not focussing on it improves youquality of life. Who are we to judge.

If their comes a time, you need to make other changes to improve the quality of your life, then who are we to judge :)
Is said before, I hope you are happy moving forward without focussing on this.

Take care. And dont forget about susans, its here if you need it again

I don't know of you were expecting some kind of magoc remedy, bit that doesn't exist. You won't feel like a floating butterfly; probably more like a sinking rocking once all the wonderful female side effects kick in.

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