Hello Everyone
The medical community and most Susan's members today believe Gender Identity and Sexual Orientation to be separate subjects as do I.
Furthermore I think at the very least we can say there is a far greater asexual percentage within the transgender community than within the general population. Also to many but not to all, sexual participation is less relevant in the older population (for various reasons) and hence sexual orientation may not be dominant in that age group.
Personally I have known since childhood I am transgender and lived for most of my life happily celibate. I started transition last year aged 62.
I had girlfriends a long time ago but never any long term relationship and hence stayed single and do not regret that decision. In simple terms I was mainly "not interested" as I preferred women for social company and discussion and nothing more and I never really sought anything more. I had romantic thoughts of girls but any minor sexual thoughts I had was to perhaps have sex as a woman with a woman. Hence I am asexual with minor lesbian tendencies. I have always been unhappy that my body does not align with my mind and did not feel at ease at sex as a man with a woman. I "retired" from consideration of sex around 30. I am aware many cis and trans people "retire" later.
First I ask the question of timing and secondly I have a question to which I honestly do not the answer and hence I seek others viewpoints please:
1. If you are trans and mainly asexual (including "retired"), which did you discover first - that you are trans or that you are asexual. I knew I was trans in childhood so it is the former for me.
2. If you are trans and mainly asexual (including "retired"), is there a connection - a direct one or a remote one - please? Is/was your libido low due to being trans or is it coincidental? Obviously I have the misalignment of body to mind but I don't know if that resulted in me being asexual. Has I been born cis, would I have still been asexual? I don't know. Perhaps many of us trans or cis choose to be celibate as we simply never meet the "right one" and that I can relate to.
Any thoughts please?
Thanking you and Hugs to all.
Pamela
Hi, Pamela.
I believe that sexual orientation and gender identity are separate, but I am pretty sure they interact. I am clear about my gender identity, where it came from, how it affected me in my past life, how it affects me now. Sex and sexual orientation are a big muddle for me. I fear I will never understand it. And, because it is over, I am not highly motivated to understand it now.
Like being trans, being mostly asexual is something that makes more sense in hindsight than it did at the time. I didn't date in high school or university, and I was a virgin until age 30. At the time, I blamed that on my parents, who denied me access to the sex ed program at school, but didn't fill the gap themselves. I suppose they were waiting for me to ask them, but I never did. I knew I couldn't raise a subject that was so obviously taboo.
But none of that made any kind of sense to me at the time, just like being trans made no sense to me.
I got married, and we had a normal sex life, and I thought I was 'cured'. Though now, I recall that I never initiated sex: probably significant. That lasted until my wife hit menopause. I was a little upset, but not very, and I quickly got used to it. It doesn't bother me at all now.
I had no idea that asexual was a thing until I joined Susan's Place. So, to answer your first question, I knew I was trans first.
I honestly have no way to answer your second question. Hopefully my history will give you a little clue how it was for me. I was just the weird kid. I had no idea what was going on. I just wanted to hide my weirdness and pretend to be normal. My intuition is to think that the two influenced each other, but to what extent, I can't say.
I've known, or at least suspected I was trans since about age 9. So that was first for me. I had relationships and sex starting in high school, but while trying to be cis, it just never felt right. My longest relationship was my marriage that barely lasted a year. Most of the time my relationships don't last over three months. Those we're all before I came out to the world two years ago.
I've questioned about being ace since then. I have had no libido since shortly after starting HRT. I question whether I'd want a relationship again, or sex for that matter. I've contemplated gender nullification over GCS. I've been single most of my life and have grown to be completely independent. Maybe I'm just not relationship material.
At times my depression gets the best of me. I wonder if anyone would ever want to be with me, in a relationship or in the bedroom. I still don't have the answers, but until I figure it out, I suppose I'll just be asexual. Maybe someday I'll find a reason to be intimate again.
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Hi Pamela,
I will try and answer as best I can.
1.I knew I was trans much earlier than any assexual issue. ie kindergarten.
2.Throughout most my life my libido was high and it overcame my confusions or awkwardness in the dating game at least initially. When a woman got to know me that's when the problems began. I think for ex-girlfriends it may have been a bit like being in a lesbian relationship with bed death happening by default - a bit like many lesbian romances.
I could never do the benevolent dictator like other guys did. I was more her friend with the sexual spark fading away as a result. Girlfriends tended to ask the same questions - 'are you really gay or something" - one girl nailed it through pure intuition- "you like my body because deep down you want to be a woman don't you"
I didn't lie- I spilled my guts . Our relationship was never the same after that.
Libido itself was never the problem - it was the off dynamic generated by not being one with mind and body.
I think if I had addressed my trans issues in my twenties I could have overcome the "off" dynamic. Transitioning in my twenties may have solved a raft of problems but may have created other ones. I chose to just bury my desire to be a woman and to a certain extent it worked.
Eventually in my late twenties I met a lovely woman who ended up asking the usual questions I seemed to attract. I joked I was a lesbian trapped in a man's body.
In the end she knew I was a bit different but she ignored it. Luckily she also had a very low libido so when the inevitable bed death started it wasn't such a problem.
In 22 years sex has never really been our thing even though I would have preferred it to be otherwise.
When I came out to her as trans at the beginning of 2016 she was disappointed but commented she always knew but just ignored it.
These days at age 49 I would put effort into a sex life if it was feasible but I'm happy to be celibate and that suits both of us.
I suspect if I complete my transition a new dynamic may emerge but these days I'm at peace with remaining celibate.
So in the end I think being in the wrong gender creates the celibacy , I think if we(as transsexuals) had transitioned as teenagers there would have been less of a barrier to active physical relationships.
Hope this is useful for consideration.
Big hugs, Kirsten.
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Quote from: pamelatransuk on August 18, 2018, 09:16:35 AM
1. If you are trans and mainly asexual (including "retired"), which did you discover first - that you are trans or that you are asexual. I knew I was trans in childhood so it is the former for me.
I knew I was 'something' but didn't realize it was asexual, or that that was a thing until after I started transitioning.
When I was younger, I thought I needed to be gay because I wasn't very manly. I found that I felt a desire to love someone regardless of gender, and sex was in a different box(still is) at the time. I don't see sex as love, sex is just sex; and if I wanted sex it was for nothing more than the physical gratification of it.
Quote from: pamelatransuk on August 18, 2018, 09:16:35 AM
2. If you are trans and mainly asexual (including "retired"), is there a connection - a direct one or a remote one - please? Is/was your libido low due to being trans or is it coincidental? Obviously I have the misalignment of body to mind but I don't know if that resulted in me being asexual. Has I been born cis, would I have still been asexual? I don't know. Perhaps many of us trans or cis choose to be celibate as we simply never meet the "right one" and that I can relate to.
I think I had a normal level of libido for males, during puberty. But this was way too high for what I was comfortable with. I didn't really seek sex for what it is, I sought it for how it represented my role in society, because of how everyone else viewed sex(or how I perceived that they viewed it as) I think there is a connection, as I never wanted to use my male genitalia, and right now, that is all I have in terms of sexual organs. So, I do believe my asexuality and transgender status are connected. What I always was attracted to was the slight mushy advances I mght see in Japanese anime, a very reserved version of affection. I'm much more interested in cuddling someone I love, than making-out with them. I feel like the latter is moreso just base nature or instinct taking over your conscious thoughts.
Hello Pamela
I'm very glad to see that you started this thread because I knew you have been thinking about this subject deeply.
To answer your first question I definitely felt different at the kindergarten level and was drawn to my sisters or mothers clothing to be associated with something female.
But it really hit me hard in first grade when the boys and girls had different uniforms and I had to wear the boys one and hated it.
So I was definitely trans first.
And the answer to your second question.
To tell you the truth sweetheart I never thought anything about this until you mentioned it to me the other day. And researched it a little then and yes I guess I'm asexual to.
In school I never really chased after girls for a relationship although I did feel more comfortable associating with them. I never had a relationship with a girl at school but just After High School I let one of those girls that was chasing me, catch me, and she's still here right next to me now after all these years.
I really hate my big masculine body but girls in high school I guess that's what they wanted as I had many pretty girls chasing after me but as I said I only let the one catch me just After High School.
We had a normal sex life well sort of, because the only way I could function would be if I thought I was the girl. I thought everything would change after we got married but of course it did not.
I can't even remember the last time we had sex I think it would be about a decade or Maybe even two decades ago. We are both still deeply in love without physical relationship.
We both really have no desire and my labito is zip.
We're still super close and very much in love and maybe even a little more so now that I've been freed out of my shell. We do every single little thing together.
I believe my libido is low for me being trans because I never could do it as CIS couples do. I always had to be the girl in my head or nothing would function.
But now I could really care less about that, I'm focusing more on my transition and trying to fit into a feminine role, with my CIS wife.
In my household anything goes and I've been dressing female for a long time but now the two of us are going to be female. Which is an awful lot of fun and satisfaction for both of us.
And the both of us will grow old as two girls together.
Much love and happiness to you, GF
Tatiana
Hi Pamela,
I definitely cross-dressed as a young adult while my libido was pretty strong. I was not thinking of ever transitioning at that time, but that would still qualify as knowing you're trans. While I remained a virgin for a very long time, it wasn't for a lack of desire. So I guess I knew I was trans before I knew I was asexual.
I do think being trans impacts my sexuality. There seems to be some mystical, masculine trait that I lack that impacts my relationship with women. My wife once told me "You have none of the male bull->-bleeped-<-, not any." I certainly took that as a compliment, but in hindsight I realize she probably is attracted to a *little* of the male bull->-bleeped-<-.
And when you're trans and closeted, your self-esteem isn't the highest and your're worried about revealing your secret. That doesn't help either.
Quote from: StacyRenee on August 18, 2018, 10:44:05 AM
I question whether I'd want a relationship again, or sex for that matter. I've contemplated gender nullification over GCS. I've been single most of my life and have grown to be completely independent. Maybe I'm just not relationship material.
Quote from: Eryn T on August 19, 2018, 03:13:27 PM
Sex was in a different box(still is) at the time. I don't see sex as love, sex is just sex; and if I wanted sex it was for nothing more than the physical gratification of it.
I'm much more interested in cuddling someone I love, than making-out with them. I feel like the latter is moreso just base nature or instinct taking over your conscious thoughts.
Many thanks to Kathy Kirsten Tatiana and Randim for your thoughts which appear similar to mine in several aspects.
Thanks also to StacyRenee and Eryn and I have highlighted a couple of issues above.
Yes I see the possibility of Gender Nullification also. I know I want a female body as first choice but I want it for the sake of appearance only and probably not for anything else. I may consider Orchie or ZDV or GCS but I have plenty of time to decide - not till 2020 or 2021.
Whereas there is absolutely nothing wrong with sex for those who wish to participate, I too see sex as not a form of making love but as a form of physical gratification and more relevantly to me, I much prefer kissing or hugging or fondling or cuddling. Much more affectionate in my opinion.
Thanking you all and hugs and cuddles to all!
Pamela
I think I am different again. I never had the feeling that I was in the wrong body, because looking back, I never knew really what body should have been the right one. I had no real gender identity. Early in my life, I liked to play with the toys of my older sister, but also liked my cars, etc. But I was told that I was a boy, and I tried to be a boy as good as I could. My dysphoria manifested itself by me not being as boyish as my peers. I also was not really interested in the rough boy type games, and drifted towards girls a little more. Later I had my best friend, who was also the same kind of wimpy guy as I was, and we did our own stuff (we remained best friends through our entire life, he died 6 years ago on kidney cancer). Looking back, I think he was either intersex as I was, or at least trans without knowing it. My friend never got married either.
I tried to be as good as a man as I could, and I had, I think, a normal sex drive and was 100% hetero. Everything went fine in our marriage, but like somebody said earlier, I was never really the person who initiated sexual intercourse, I was always just fine with all the foreplay, etc. Until, almost over the course of a few days, I was not able to sexually perform anymore (today I know that this was the time I underwent my female menopause - but at that time I did not even know that I was intersex, and I did not even know that something like intersex or transgender was existing). Eventual, this caused a lot of anger, etc. And our marriage finally broke apart over the entire anger situation. My wife was the last person in my life I ever had any sexual interaction with. I slowly drifted into an asexual condition after she left. She was the love of my life, and I did not allow any other woman to come close enough to me to interfere with my self dictated celibacy. Over time I lost any sexual interests at all, and my libido went away pretty much. I still did not know that I was intersex or would be trans.
The loss of my ability to function as a man, was just another "male fail" for me.
At about this time I was always a female in all of my dreams. And the part of my body, I saw most of the time, was my vulva. I never had any sexual interactions in my dreams, I just was running around the world with an exposed vulva (talking about stupid dreams!). Anyway, the first idea that I was a little different came to me when my breasts started to grow. First I thought they were men boobs, but they continued to grow even though I was pretty slim and trim. I went to my physician about it, and all the testing started, and they found out all the different things about my body, which finally explained why I was the way I am. By that time, I was asexual for quite some time already.
Being trans came to me late last year (or in reality, it probably started with my dreams? Like 10 or 15 years ago?). But late last year I wanted to be a woman, and I wanted to be a woman as fast as I could become one!
Anyway, whenever my transition started, I was asexual long before that.
But I do not really feel like most of you, because I never had a real male body anyway, because my body was largely female to start with, I just had the wrong plumbing. My boobs are growing, because I am currently ending my puberty, and I feel more like reclaiming my original body rather than transitioning into a female body.
Does that make sense?
I do not see any sign that I will not continue to be asexual, and I hope very much so, because being asexual, life is way easier, and a lot of pressure and stress is not there anymore. If I would become sexual again, I think I would be as lesbian as they come! And if one considers that I probably was (as they tell me) all my life 2/3 female and 1/3 male, I was nothing but a lesbian all my life!
Discovered I was trans first (or at least learned what it meant, I had always been trans, just didn't have a word for it). Then, after starting HRT, discovered I have zero sexual interest in anyone. Prior to HRT, I thought of women as friends but could get aroused physically by them. Now, I am just really interested knowing and being friends with women. I have never had any sexual attraction to men, and that has not changed. Nor do I expect it will. I am fairly certain I will remain asexual. And I am happy with that. Sex was always a source of turmoil for me. I am happy putting it behind me.
I have been married for ten years. My wife has always leaned toward asexuality and only had sex with me out of marital obligation. We have discussed how I feel now, and she would be content to remain with me but be a celibate couple. Neither one of us can imagine ourselves as lesbian lovers. Just really good friends who love each other and need to raise our kids together.
The nature of being transsexual both physically and mentally is uncomfortable sexually. There are problems with how you see yourself/body sexually, how others see you and your body sexually, and how the mind tries to cope with this.
1) I had an aversion to participating in sex long before I knew for sure transsexuality was an issue. Attraction is not a problem. Having to negotiate relationships and sex acts as a trans individual is. My libido is fine. My motivation to satisfy it, though, isn't. I have a habit of viewing the whole topic in the style of military-grade operational risk assessment and usually it's not worth the risk, effort and expense.
2) Had I been born cis I would probably not be acting celibate. I noticed HRT had a huge positive effect on self/body image and almost completely relaxed my almost religious sense of shame around the whole thing. But it can't make a dent in my cautiousness toward potential partners and risks involved. That's likely a result of in-grown personality traits.
Should I find the hypothetical "right one" - which at this point I doubt will ever happen since my relationships have taught me a few realities about people and myself and I don't know if I have energy for any more of that - I wouldn't have a problem. It seems that prior to transition there was a severe mental block regards sexual interaction, HRT has fixed that. These days it's a matter of trying to avoid the pitfalls of incompatible people. Being stuck with someone who only feels misery when you truly act like yourself is one of the deluxe torments of a Personal Hell.
Quote from: Kylo on December 19, 2018, 09:17:09 PM
Should I find the hypothetical "right one" - which at this point I doubt will ever happen since my relationships have taught me a few realities about people and myself and I don't know if I have energy for any more of that - I wouldn't have a problem. It seems that prior to transition there was a severe mental block regards sexual interaction, HRT has fixed that. These days it's a matter of trying to avoid the pitfalls of incompatible people. Being stuck with someone who only feels misery when you truly act like yourself is one of the deluxe torments of a Personal Hell.
And that is the reason that I would like to get involved with another trans person for the case that sexual interests would return to me! Only another trans person can really understand what is going on with me and about me. It could very well be that I remained being asexual after I started to transition, just to avoid having to explain why I can't, or would not want to do certain expected sexual actions.
Being asexual takes all these uncomfortable situations away and let's me do what I feel I want to do.
I thought Linde might be interested in this thread and directed her here from the "Transition, and Shifts in Gender Orientation" thread.
Thank you to both Linde and Kylo for your most interesting comments. It appears there is so much to learn from others' experience of asexuality; we already knew there is so much to learn from others' trans experience. We have some things in common but we are all unique and hence different.
All I wish to add is that which I stated on the other thread: I am now 10 months HRT and I confirm my (a)sexuality has remained the same for the last 10 months as it was for the previous 32 years.
Sex for me was indeed uncomfortable and embarrassing for me 33 years ago - how could anyone else appreciate/admire/be attracted to my body when I found it offputting? Had I been born cis, I truly do not know whether I would or would not have been mainly asexual for other reasons.
Hugs and cuddles to all again
Pamela
Quote from: pamelatransuk on December 20, 2018, 06:42:57 AM
Sex for me was indeed uncomfortable and embarrassing for me 33 years ago - how could anyone else appreciate/admire/be attracted to my body when found it offputting? Had I been born cis, I truly do not know whether I would or would not have been mainly asexual for other reasons.
Hugs and cuddles to all again
Pamela
And there is our difference in our asexuality. I enjoyed sex when I was younger, or better I enjoyed the foreplay, cuddling and the gentle stuff about sex, the act itself was more like a chore to me. I did have only 5 sex partners in my entire life, and i was with my wife over 36 years, and was not interested in any other female anymore. I think our sex life was pretty great (she is also of this opinion), but once she left, I did not Want to soil this memory with other females. I dated a few times after our divorce, but none of the ladies really inspired me to more. After a while I stopped dating, and I think that I was fully asexual at that time. I have no sexual desire anymore, and feel pretty comfortable about this.
It had never anything to do with the way I looked at my body, for me it is just a mental thing, and I don't know if I would break out of this mental block after I had SRS.
When I had the last sexual thoughts, it as always about the sexual interactions I had with my wife, she is still inside my head after almost 16 years now, and probably will be there for the rest of my life? Anyway, I am pretty sure that I will remain asexual as long as any sexual thoughts I have are connected with my ex, because I do not want to spoil this memory! But for the time being, I can easily live with this!
I do miss hugs and cuddles but have not found anybody I feel like having those, with!
Therefore the virtual versions is coming!
Hugs and cuddles back to all of you!
Linde
My wife questioned my sexuality back during our honeymoon 21 years ago and was concerned that we only had sex once during this exceptional time in one's life. Throughout our relationship, my wife initiated sex most of the time. She often jokes that our daughter was conceived after I had been travelling for weeks and she grabbed me to have sex in order to get pregnant once I got home.
I tried to initiate sex but was usually rebuffed, not always mind you. This was unsettling to me and eventually, I came to accept this state of being. In addition, while I could help her climax, I was usually unable to climax or it would take a looong time. My wife is beautiful and attracts men like fly paper. She has this uncanny ability to know what men need and relates to them on a level I have seen rarely. The same was with me but our sexual relationship was muted.
My wife actually thought I was gay but I don't find the male body enticing, I extremely attracted to the female body. I found an earlier comment by @kirsteneklund7 in this thread interesting where she mentions a girlfriend telling her "you like my body because deep down you want to be a woman don't you." This resonates with me. I have always found the female body fascinating and beautiful. Deep down I think my attraction to females was because I wanted to be one and came to accept this in my 50s.
I don't think I'm asexual and I unsure what the future will bring regarding sex. I am really looking for companionship more than a sexual relationship. I think this is fairly normal when you move into your 50s.
I accepted my sexual state of mind well before I realized I was transgendered.
The trail of crumbs I left behind me now makes sense
Thank you for starting this thread, Pamela.
Hugs Zoey
.
I'm a MAAB.
For many years I was annoyed that i didn't had a girlfriend. Then I learnt the term asexuality, it's weird to think of but I lost maybe 20 % of the times that wanted to masturbate. During a couple of years at AVEN I came across other terms( genderless, agender & neutrois).
Today when dysphoria hits it's the term neutrois that makes me sad & frustrated.
I've times when i feel that my gender could just as easy be in a syringe.
So for me it's : Asexuality -> transgender(feelings).
One thing we have not mentioned yet is that as we age our interest in sexual intercourse diminishes. This does make biological sense in that older people may not live long enough to raise their children to adulthood.
Of course, older people can increase their interest in sex with proper hormone replacement therapy and many of us do report an increase in sexual interest, especially if you are taking Testosterone.
Quote from: pamelatransuk on December 20, 2018, 06:42:57 AM
I thought Linde might be interested in this thread and directed her here from the "Transition, and Shifts in Gender Orientation" thread.
All I wish to add is that which I stated on the other thread: I am now 10 months HRT and I confirm my (a)sexuality has remained the same for the last 10 months as it was for the previous 32 years.
Sex for me was indeed uncomfortable and embarrassing for me 33 years ago - how could anyone else appreciate/admire/be attracted to my body when I found it offputting? Had I been born cis, I truly do not know whether I would or would not have been mainly asexual for other reasons.
Pamela
Pamela,
I am glad you started this thread. It is good for folks to have a place to discuss this thing you have in common. I abandoned that thread about gender and orientation shifts because it seemed like there was more taking about asexuality than shifting orientation. I got the feeling no one understood what I was trying to say. I don't mean that as a hostile statement, just how I felt. As for being asexual, I am not ready for that. Maybe one day. Although I had sex for many years, mentally it was painful to be in the wrong body. Very often I guess I was asexual when having sex because I was fighting the whole situation in my head. Now I have my body right, I am not satisfied with no sex. It's like I waged a war to get to this point, why would I not want to go forward. I see asexuality is a fallback that would be okay if I had to. I'm not sure you all see it that way. I hope that is not regarded as insulting.
Moni
Does being asexual include no self-pleasuring when alone to an orgasm?
I do not think being asexual includes abstaining or celibacy.
If I understand the concept of asexual, that means you have no interest in having sex with anyone. I wonder then if that means you will not be sexually attracted to anyone and that you will have no sexual fantasies.
Chrissy
Quote from: ChrissyRyan on December 25, 2018, 09:05:18 AM
Does being asexual include no self-pleasuring when alone to an orgasm?
I do not think being asexual includes abstaining or celibacy.
If I understand the concept of asexual, that means you have no interest in having sex with anyone. I wonder then if that means you will not be sexually attracted to anyone and that you will have no sexual fantasies.
Chrissy
That's how I understand it. Asexuality is no psychological sexual desires at all. No action towards sex is celibacy. The two seem to have become popularly conflated. Probably because 'the community' at large have been using it online as a term to describe a personal choice.
1. I knew I was not like the other kids when I was young, but I didn't know why or the terms of for transgender people until after I learned I was asexual, which came in high school. Resources for the LGBT community in rural Texas during the early 2000's meant I learned what asexual was before transgender.
2. Unrelated. Sexual orientation does not affect identity. We are as likely to be sexual or asexual as most. Some don't engage in sex as a choice because of their dysphoria, which is not the same as having a non-sexual orientation. The behaviors derived of need or circumstance do not an identity make.
I am demisexual (that's asexual where we can develop sexual attraction to some we have a deep emotional connection with) and nonbinary transgender. I find both to have been mutually exclusive and one never informed the other.
Like @Artistic_Gene I am demisexual, essentially no sexual interest until a strong romantic/emotional connection is formed. Then things change.
My transition, accepting that I can violate cultural taboos, led me to evaluate my sexuality much more honestly than when I tried to regard it through my assigned gender role, and I have been able to recognize the interesting variations that make up, wel... ME.
Quote from: ChrissyRyan on December 25, 2018, 09:05:18 AM
Does being asexual include no self-pleasuring when alone to an orgasm?
I do not think being asexual includes abstaining or celibacy.
If I understand the concept of asexual, that means you have no interest in having sex with anyone. I wonder then if that means you will not be sexually attracted to anyone and that you will have no sexual fantasies.
Chrissy
I am attracted to other females that fit my scheme of desire. I judge their bodily features, their faces etc., but I have not the desire to have sex with them. The thought about sex may cross my mind for a second, but goes away as fast. I never had sex with a woman as a woman, but only as a male. Later on in life, it felt more like a duty than a pleasure, an I tried to avoid it as good as I could. After my wife and I split up, I never had a sexual encounter with any other person, and the libido wen away pretty much.
Once in a while i think I should test myself (my libido or whatever you want to call it), and try to masturbate, I even bought a vibrator for his, because my penis has shrunk down to less than 2", and while thinking about setting up, I get diverted and forget absolutely about masturbation. I might com back to the idea a month later or so, and will not do it because of some trivial reason that seems to be more important at the moment. I own this vibrator now for more than 1/2 year, and ist is still in it's original packaging.
I think my libido is not even strong enough for any self pleasuring, and no, I also do not have sexual fantasies anymore.
I don't know if that would change when I would have had SRS. MY brain might have decided to turn my libido off, because I have noting anymore, which could use for sexual pleasure, even with a partner not.
My sexual orientation is still absolutely directed toward females only, and even with the best effort a partner would not be able to stimulate me sexually anymore. One cannot do anything with nothing!
I didn't know I was trans til I was 21. My life was like a jigsaw puzzle where I was given a piece every so often and it was only in 1978 that I was able to fit them all together. The clues were there, I hated boy's haircuts but by the time of my 13th birthday I got away with longer hair (1970). Wondered why the boys were terrified of being made to play a boys part in the school play, I often daydreamed of starting a new school as a girl or faking my own death and living the rest of my life as a woman. I had little enthusiasm for sport though I liked fishing, cars & motorbikes. When I was 14 & 1/2 Bobby, one of the older boys at school rode past my friend & I on his BSA motorbike with Dianne his girlfriend on the back, hair streaming out beneath her helmet, arms round his waste. My friend wished he was Bobby, I wanted to be Dianne. I'd been dressing and using cosmetics in secret for a year by then. I had a few girlfriends at school but it never got past kissing, I liked boys as well but I was 19 before I had a fling with a guy. Girls usually ditched me after a few months, I was 18 when I lost my virginity in the interval of the Sweeney. I was wild after that and had many flings with men & women but by my late 20s hmy libido had fallen off considerably.
I was 5 & 1/2 years post op before losing my virginity then again I went wild with a string of girlfriends & boyfriends til my late 40s when I kind of lost interest again.Had the occasional fling with guys mainly but me under retired though I could be coaxed out of retirement if the right guy or girl came along!
1. If you are trans and mainly asexual (including "retired"), which did you discover first - that you are trans or that you are asexual. I knew I was trans in childhood so it is the former for me.
I discovered I was trans at 20 (even though subtle signs were in the past) and went to my first ace meetup a few months after bottom surgery before going on estrogen (see signature). About a year later I admitted I am demiseuxal/heteromantic and took a while to truly understand this is why I get bored of sex sometimes even though
the idea excites me and kink is fine.
2. If you are trans and mainly asexual (including "retired"), is there a connection - a direct one or a remote one - please? Is/was your libido low due to being trans or is it coincidental? Obviously I have the misalignment of body to mind but I don't know if that resulted in me being asexual. Has I been born cis, would I have still been asexual? I don't know. Perhaps many of us trans or cis choose to be celibate as we simply never meet the "right one" and that I can relate to.
I'm demisexual so the emotional connection must be there. Also I know after I get a vagina my sex drive will temporarily sky rocket then decline after the novelty wears off just like it did this year due to sheltering myself from sex all my life for 25 years.
Quote from: HappyMoni on December 25, 2018, 08:33:51 AM
Pamela,
I am glad you started this thread. It is good for folks to have a place to discuss this thing you have in common.
As for being asexual, I am not ready for that. Maybe one day. Although I had sex for many years, mentally it was painful to be in the wrong body. Very often I guess I was asexual when having sex because I was fighting the whole situation in my head. Now I have my body right, I am not satisfied with no sex. It's like I waged a war to get to this point, why would I not want to go forward. I see asexuality is a fallback that would be okay if I had to. I'm not sure you all see it that way. I hope that is not regarded as insulting.
Moni
Thank you Moni. I understand your feelings. I assure you I do not regard any of your comments here or elsewhere as insulting.
Hugs
Pamela
Quote from: ChrissyRyan on December 25, 2018, 09:05:18 AM
Does being asexual include no self-pleasuring when alone to an orgasm?
I do not think being asexual includes abstaining or celibacy.
If I understand the concept of asexual, that means you have no interest in having sex with anyone. I wonder then if that means you will not be sexually attracted to anyone and that you will have no sexual fantasies.
Chrissy
Chrissy
Yes I agree with Kylo. Asexuality means no desire to participate in sex with others or on your own or to have sexual fantasies or to think about having sex. Celibacy means giving it up or restraining oneself.
Just to clarify:
I am not 100% asexual; I am asexual with minor lesbian tendencies.
Hugs
Pamela
Quote from: Zoey421 on December 24, 2018, 11:21:16 AM
I found an earlier comment by @kirsteneklund7 in this thread interesting where she mentions a girlfriend telling her "you like my body because deep down you want to be a woman don't you." This resonates with me. I have always found the female body fascinating and beautiful. Deep down I think my attraction to females was because I wanted to be one and came to accept this in my 50s.
Thank you for starting this thread, Pamela.
Hugs Zoey
Thank you Zoey for your kind words and I completely agree with the comment from Kirsten to which you refer.
I find the female body so beautiful and like both of you, this is because I have always wished to have a female body - not since 50 in my case but all my life!
Hugs
Pamela
Thank you Zoey
Quote from: Artistic_Gene on December 25, 2018, 01:47:23 PM
1. I knew I was not like the other kids when I was young, but I didn't know why or the terms of for transgender people until after I learned I was asexual, which came in high school. Resources for the LGBT community in rural Texas during the early 2000's meant I learned what asexual was before transgender.
2. Unrelated. Sexual orientation does not affect identity. We are as likely to be sexual or asexual as most. Some don't engage in sex as a choice because of their dysphoria, which is not the same as having a non-sexual orientation. The behaviors derived of need or circumstance do not an identity make.
I am demisexual (that's asexual where we can develop sexual attraction to some we have a deep emotional connection with) and nonbinary transgender. I find both to have been mutually exclusive and one never informed the other.
Hello ArtisticGene
Thank you for your comments which I truly appreciate.
1. I note asexual before trans for you.
2. I agree entirely that gender identity and sexual orientation are unrelated and separate; however I respect the views of the others members who consider them to be connected.
3. I have already described myself as asexual with minor lesbian tendencies. However I now see myself as also having minor demisexual tendencies as I could only be sexually involved if there were to be a romantic and emotional connection beforehand.
Hugs
Pamela
Michelle/Krone6
Thank you for your comments which I truly appreciate.
I note that there are now at least 4 of us - you and me and ArtisticGene that self classify as demisexual.
Most interesting.
Thank you to others who have also highlighted so many aspects to this debate.
Hugs to all
Pamela
Quote from: pamelatransuk on December 27, 2018, 10:37:39 AM
Michelle/Krone6
Thank you for your comments which I truly appreciate.
I note that there are now at least 4 of us - you and me and ArtisticGene that self classify as demisexual.
Most interesting.
Thank you to others who have also highlighted so many aspects to this debate.
Hugs to all
Pamela
The way you classified demisexual, I might belong to this group, too! I never had sex just for the sake of sex, I could do it only if a emotional/romantic connection was present.
I am asexual, but i still like o see the naked female body, or a pretty female face, not for any sexual reasons, just for the beauty of it.
I have no desire to see a naked male body, no matter how many muscles are packet on it, I do not feel it (the male body) to be a pleasurable sight!
Hmm, I've been thinking about this thread for a couple days. I would be classified as Asexual I guess since I have never had any desire to ever have sex with anyone. I only ever considered the idea once in the 9th grade and then figured out I'd rather be the girl and so tossed the idea. I've never even thought about the subject since all the years ago. Like many I "Play" with my self as a way to cope with my dysphoria induced stress and anxiety issues. The idea of sex and seeing ugly hairy male bodies actually grosses me out.
Lisa
Quote from: Dietlind on December 27, 2018, 08:56:31 PM
The way you classified demisexual, I might belong to this group, too! I never had sex just for the sake of sex, I could do it only if a emotional/romantic connection was present.
I am asexual, but i still like o see the naked female body, or a pretty female face, not for any sexual reasons, just for the beauty of it.
I have no desire to see a naked male body, no matter how many muscles are packet on it, I do not feel it (the male body) to be a pleasurable sight!
Hello again Linde
That makes 5 of us here. I wouldn't mind betting there are so many Susans' Members (who may or may not be mainly asexual) that are demisexual meaning sex absolutely out without romantic/emotional connection!
As you may expect, I confirm I agree precisely and I feel the same way as you describe.
Hugs
Pamela
Quote from: Lisa89125 on December 27, 2018, 09:18:34 PM
Hmm, I've been thinking about this thread for a couple days. I would be classified as Asexual I guess since I have never had any desire to ever have sex with anyone. I only ever considered the idea once in the 9th grade and then figured out I'd rather be the girl and so tossed the idea. I've never even thought about the subject since all the years ago.
The idea of sex and seeing ugly hairy male bodies actually grosses me out.
Lisa
Hello again Lisa
Welcome to asexuality!
Clearly you think the same way as Kirsten, Zoey, Linde and me in essentially dismissing sex and preferring the beauty of the female body both for the sake of it (without sex) and because we all wish to possess it and be female ourselves.
This thread is convincing me even more how wide the gender spectrum and the sexuality spectrum are.
The latest aspect I have determined from so many interesting comments is that there may be so many overlaps (as in Venn Diagrams) between MTF Transgender and Asexual and Minor Lesbian and Demisexual some of which may be latent which further complicates the situation.
Hugs
Pamela
Pamela, When this first came up I had to sit back and figure out what the terms meant. the spectrum's are very broad and I think there is a fair bit more at work here than most of us realized. I honestly hate even thinking about masturbating. Even that has gotten the point of grossing me out. Ick!
Lisa
Quote from: Lisa89125 on December 28, 2018, 03:11:52 PM
Pamela, When this first came up I had to sit back and figure out what the terms meant. the spectrum's are very broad and I think there is a fair bit more at work here than most of us realized. I honestly hate even thinking about masturbating. Even that has gotten the point of grossing me out. Ick!
Lisa
Hi Lisa, I think self-pleasure, masturbating, for example, is a way to experience gratification without having to focus your sexuality on another person. I found an interesting website with FAQs at https://www.asexuality.org/?q=general.html#ex9 that was helpful. A person who masturbates could be asexual and they do so not because of an external sex drive but rather a need to fulfill personal libido, relieve stress, or because they find it pleasurable.
What I find interesting is the spectrum of people who are asexual or transgender. I think it is important to be open to a wider set of possibilities.
Hugs Zoey
Indeed so, Zoey.
I note and agree that one can have a romantic attraction to someone without any desire for a sexual relationship.
I agree for me the three separate names apply - romantic, sensual, sexual. As a mainly asexual (and as it happens trans) person, I experience romantic attraction towards a woman occasionally, sensual attraction towards the same woman possibly later and would consider sexual attraction to the same woman most unlikely but it could just about happen. Sexual attraction to anyone at all without romantic and/or sensual attraction absolutely no chance whatsoever for me.
This is further confirmation for me that I am (and perhaps others are?) transgender, mainly asexual with minor lesbian tendencies and demisexual.
As I stated at the start of this thread and I think few would dispute it: there is certainly a higher percentage of asexual people within the transgender community than in the population as a whole.
I suspect there may be a higher percentage of demisexual people in the transgender community than in the population as a whole.
My view is that gender identity and sexual interest are separate subjects but I respect those for whom they be intertwined. Needless to say, in terms of any form of participation I would by far prefer kissing, cuddling and hugging to a sexual act.
Hugs and Cuddles to all!
Pamela
Quote from: pamelatransuk on December 29, 2018, 05:56:27 AM
Indeed so, Zoey.
I note and agree that one can have a romantic attraction to someone without any desire for a sexual relationship.
I agree for me the three separate names apply - romantic, sensual, sexual. As a mainly asexual (and as it happens trans) person, I experience romantic attraction towards a woman occasionally, sensual attraction towards the same woman possibly later and would consider sexual attraction to the same woman most unlikely but it could just about happen. Sexual attraction to anyone at all without romantic and/or sensual attraction absolutely no chance whatsoever for me.
This is further confirmation for me that I am (and perhaps others are?) transgender, mainly asexual with minor lesbian tendencies and demisexual.
Pamela
Are we identical twins, separated at birth? :angel:
Quote from: pamelatransuk on December 29, 2018, 05:56:27 AM
Indeed so, Zoey.
I note and agree that one can have a romantic attraction to someone without any desire for a sexual relationship.
I agree for me the three separate names apply - romantic, sensual, sexual. As a mainly asexual (and as it happens trans) person, I experience romantic attraction towards a woman occasionally, sensual attraction towards the same woman possibly later and would consider sexual attraction to the same woman most unlikely but it could just about happen. Sexual attraction to anyone at all without romantic and/or sensual attraction absolutely no chance whatsoever for me.
This is further confirmation for me that I am (and perhaps others are?) transgender, mainly asexual with minor lesbian tendencies and demisexual.
As I stated at the start of this thread and I think few would dispute it: there is certainly a higher percentage of asexual people within the transgender community than in the population as a whole.
I suspect there may be a higher percentage of demisexual people in the transgender community than in the population as a whole.
My view is that gender identity and sexual interest are separate subjects but I respect those for whom they be intertwined. Needless to say, in terms of any form of participation I would by far prefer kissing, cuddling and hugging to a sexual act.
Hugs and Cuddles to all!
Pamela
Hi Pamela, for me, right now, It is more about companionship than anything else, that includes kissing, hugging, and cuddles.
Hugs Zoey
Quote from: pamelatransuk on December 27, 2018, 10:31:11 AM
3. I have already described myself as asexual with minor lesbian tendencies. However I now see myself as also having minor demisexual tendencies as I could only be sexually involved if there were to be a romantic and emotional connection beforehand.
I'm glad to be able to bring the word and definition to your awareness. Most people are aware of asexuals (aces) but many who are aware of them aren't aware of gray-aces, or what's between sexual and non-sexual. Demi falls in that category. I remember I first identified as asexual, then when I met my husband I finally realized I could have sexual feelings. Outside of him though I'm perfectly disinterested in sex. I was never a usual sort, I suppose
Quote from: Artistic_Gene on December 29, 2018, 12:31:33 PM
I'm glad to be able to bring the word and definition to your awareness. Most people are aware of asexuals (aces) but many who are aware of them aren't aware of gray-aces, or what's between sexual and non-sexual. Demi falls in that category. I remember I first identified as asexual, then when I met my husband I finally realized I could have sexual feelings. Outside of him though I'm perfectly disinterested in sex. I was never a usual sort, I suppose
When you met your husband, did you seek the presence/companionship of men?
I am not really interested in meeting a man (unless it is for work related purposes), and I thus don't even get the chance to probably like a guy (what I don't believe could happen. My tendencies are definitely lesbian, but again, not just a raw sexual purposes, because I could not get intimate with any person, if the emotional bond was not established way earlier.
When I was still a man only, women considered me to be very handsome, and I could have had many affairs, but I did not. Because during that time of my life, too, I was not interested in any sex without the emotional connection. Which means neither my sexual orientation nor my demisexuality changed over many years.
Quote from: Dietlind on December 29, 2018, 01:53:38 PM
When you met your husband, did you seek the presence/companionship of men?
I am not really interested in meeting a man (unless it is for work related purposes), and I thus don't even get the chance to probably like a guy (what I don't believe could happen. My tendencies are definitely lesbian, but again, not just a raw sexual purposes, because I could not get intimate with any person, if the emotional bond was not established way earlier.
When I was still a man only, women considered me to be very handsome, and I could have had many affairs, but I did not. Because during that time of my life, too, I was not interested in any sex without the emotional connection. Which means neither my sexual orientation nor my demisexuality changed over many years.
I wasn't trying to seek anyone's specific presence or companionship, really. I tried a few relationships (purely romantic, non sexual) with men and women before him (I would describe myself as demi with pan-romantic tendencies if were to give the longer explanation), but no one really interested me at that level. I didn't realize I was demi until well into my friendship and eventual relationship with my husband, when I realized I had sexual feelings for him. That was a day of googling, lemme tell ya.
We had been together some months by that point and known each other for years. It was interesting to learn there was a space between sexual and nonsexual. So, that's where I've been. We've tried polyamory and other stuff, but I never developed sexual feelings for anyone else, even when I had a strong emotional connection in most cases. I guess sexuality is wibbly-wobbly that way
I could not do any Bi or poly stuff what so ever. I am single person focused, as well as female focused only. If I would get involved in a sexual encounter, I can say that I would be as monogamous and lesbian as they come!
Many moons back, before I met my wife, I tried to participate in a threesome (that sounded exciting). Two guys and one pretty experienced woman. I failed very bitterly!
Quote from: Dietlind on December 29, 2018, 02:49:58 PM
I could not do any Bi or poly stuff what so ever. I am single person focused, as well as female focused only. If I would get involved in a sexual encounter, I can say that I would be as monogamous and lesbian as they come!
Many moons back, before I met my wife, I tried to participate in a threesome (that sounded exciting). Two guys and one pretty experienced woman. I failed very bitterly!
My first sexual encounter was with a woman and a man at the same time. It was...well, it was. It sure was a thing that happened. As far as the polyamory, that didn't work out for several reasons. Just wasn't a good fit at the time. I could potentially see myself in an emotional relationship with others, but sexually, I'm just into my hubs. I think if it weren't for him I still would not have sexual desire for anyone to this day
Quote from: Dietlind on December 29, 2018, 09:02:02 AM
Are we identical twins, separated at birth? :angel:
Thank you Linde. You are so sweet!
Hugs
Pamela
Quote from: Zoey421 on December 29, 2018, 11:47:54 AM
Hi Pamela, for me, right now, It is more about companionship than anything else, that includes kissing, hugging, and cuddles.
Hugs Zoey
Hello again
That makes 6 of us here. As I stated I wouldn't mind betting there are so many Susans' Members (who may or may not be mainly asexual) that are demisexual meaning sex absolutely out without romantic/emotional connection!
Hugs
Pamela
Quote from: Artistic_Gene on December 29, 2018, 12:31:33 PM
I'm glad to be able to bring the word and definition to your awareness. Most people are aware of asexuals (aces) but many who are aware of them aren't aware of gray-aces, or what's between sexual and non-sexual. Demi falls in that category. I remember I first identified as asexual, then when I met my husband I finally realized I could have sexual feelings. Outside of him though I'm perfectly disinterested in sex. I was never a usual sort, I suppose
Hello again
Thank you. I am truly grateful for explaining the meaning of the word demisexual.
I also appreciate all the other details you have provided in response to Linde.
I think another aspect which may be connected to this debate and a subject that many of us will be aware of but I don't believe there may be a term (noun or adjective) unless one of you happen to know it:
There are some people who can only have a proper romantic attraction and bond (which may or not develop into a sexual relationship) literally once in their lifetime! These people may be mainly asexual at the start or they could become asexual afterwards as they know that they enjoyed being in love but that time has passed and is never to repeated.
Food for thought.
Hugs
Pamela
Quote from: pamelatransuk on December 30, 2018, 06:19:32 AM
Hello again
That makes 6 of us here. As I stated I wouldn't mind betting there are so many Susans' Members (who may or may not be mainly asexual) that are demisexual meaning sex absolutely out without romantic/emotional connection!
Hugs
Pamela
An interesting question would be, if this sexual behavior was already present when they were supposedly cis people, or is it new now, probably caused by HRT?
I was always only interested in sex if I had a special emotional connection with my partner. The only thing that was added over the last decade (prior to HR) was the asexual element. Which could have been kind of a protection for me, because I did not, and do not have any person I would have want to be sexually engaged with.
Quote from: pamelatransuk on December 30, 2018, 06:31:28 AM
There are some people who can only have a proper romantic attraction and bond (which may or not develop into a sexual relationship) literally once in their lifetime! These people may be mainly asexual at the start or they could become asexual afterwards as they know that they enjoyed being in love but that time has passed and is never to repeated.
Food for thought.
Hugs
Pamela
I might be one of those people, but I don't know. I had a few sexual encounters prior to meeting my wife, but after we divorced, I have not searched out any relation like this. If my wife would come back to me, I would be more than happy, and if she would require me to be a man again, I very likely would do this, just to be with her!
The evidence is building that maybe I am. I had every boys dream with my first wife and yet I could not put cross-dressing out of my mind. Even my first girlfriend Kathy, I would drop her off and then go to my sisters to watch her kids. I would put them all asleep and then go to her room and put on her clothes and makeup. My second wife and I have had sex only a couple hand fulls of times and I got her preggers, twice. I got a vasectomy shortly thereafter. I refer to cross-dressing because that is what it was known as at the time. But I always felt it was more than just cross-dressing. I now have confirmation that I am transgender and finally finding a name for it has been such a blessing. No more depression, No more anger,
Quote from: Dietlind on December 30, 2018, 12:36:55 PM
An interesting question would be, if this sexual behavior was already present when they were supposedly cis people, or is it new now, probably caused by HRT?
I was always only interested in sex if I had a special emotional connection with my partner. The only thing that was added over the last decade (prior to HR) was the asexual element. Which could have been kind of a protection for me, because I did not, and do not have any person I would have want to be sexually engaged with.
Yes Linde I accept the asexuality and/or the demisexuality and/or the once in a lifetime romance thinking could start before or after realization of transgender status or before or after HRT. It makes no difference whether one "knows" oneself at any age but for me I am one of those transgirls that always knew - I told my grandmother aged 4 I wished to be girl. But is OK to know or realize any age from 4 to 84!
Hugs
Pamela
Quote from: Dietlind on December 30, 2018, 12:42:05 PM
I might be one of those people, but I don't know. I had a few sexual encounters prior to meeting my wife, but after we divorced, I have not searched out any relation like this. If my wife would come back to me, I would be more than happy, and if she would require me to be a man again, I very likely would do this, just to be with her!
Love conquers all!
I am inclined to believe that not only is there a "competition" going on in our minds between our trans status and the hope (especially when we are young) of finding the perfect attractive romantic female partner but also an element of the two being "in unison" in that we may to a large degree find "the one" as perfect attractive and romantic as really our main objective is to be like her (but as that is impossible, we pursue and perhaps end up in a sexual relationship which we may enjoy or which we may be indifferent to).
Hugs
Pamela
Quote from: DawnOday on December 30, 2018, 01:09:19 PM
The evidence is building that maybe I am. I had every boys dream with my first wife and yet I could not put cross-dressing out of my mind. Even my first girlfriend Kathy, I would drop her off and then go to my sisters to watch her kids. I would put them all asleep and then go to her room and put on her clothes and makeup. My second wife and I have had sex only a couple hand fulls of times and I got her preggers, twice. I got a vasectomy shortly thereafter. I refer to cross-dressing because that is what it was known as at the time. But I always felt it was more than just cross-dressing. I now have confirmation that I am transgender and finally finding a name for it has been such a blessing. No more depression, No more anger,
Hello again Dawn
I assume you refer to you probably being the "once in a lifetime romance" category in your comment.
I assume further that you also believe yourself like me and other respondees to being mainly asexual and demisexual.
Your two other points apply to me also and I am sure to others:
1. I have never lost the pleasure of crossdressing which I started aged 8 and at age 12 I was familiar with the term ->-bleeped-<- and thought I was one. Obviously later I realized I was transsexual. It is only recently perhaps since 2005 we have used the umbrella term transgender here in UK.
2. Definitely. My anger and embitterment have gone. My depression is still there but at a much reduced level and frequency.
Hugs
Pamela
Quote from: pamelatransuk on December 31, 2018, 06:38:29 AM
1. I have never lost the pleasure of crossdressing which I started aged 8 and at age 12 I was familiar with the term ->-bleeped-<- and thought I was one.
Hugs
Pamela
I never ever had that desire, and never ever thought about being a girl. I tried so very hard to be a boy, but always fell short of the goal.
From what I know now, I probably did not want to dress like a girl, because I tried to be a perfect cross dresser as a guy. Most of my life I tried to be that real macho guy, I never really achieved it, because I never was a cis male.
I don't really know, I might not have had the desire to dress like a girl, because something inside of me knew that I was one mostly? I don't know, I just know that I never looked like the other guys, and never was interested in a lot of stuff they were, I was just dressed like one.
I think there has not much research been done on the psychological aspects of intersex people. I don't really know if most of us will be transition to one or the other gender. It seems to me that most intersex persons who are in the public have transitioned to their female side. And here is the question, are we really transitioning, or are we just decide to live the one or the other side of our natural biology?
Quote from: Dietlind on December 31, 2018, 10:23:28 AM
And here is the question, are we really transitioning, or are we just decide to live the one or the other side of our natural biology?
Precisely! We are only correcting the outward appearance (clothing, make up, possible surgeries) to what they should be as determined by our mind or our true nature; of course some of us may realize what they should be at different times in their lives.
So essentially Yes -We are not transitioning but we are realigning as we never (for some after hindsight) should have been misaligned body to mind at birth.
Hugs
Pamela
Quote from: pamelatransuk on January 02, 2019, 05:53:11 AM
Precisely! We are only correcting the outward appearance (clothing, make up, possible surgeries) to what they should be as determined by our mind or our true nature; of course some of us may realize what they should be at different times in their lives.
So essentially Yes -We are not transitioning but we are realigning as we never (for some after hindsight) should have been misaligned body to mind at birth.
Hugs
Pamela
You are fully correct, because transitioning means going more or less through a physical or mental porthole, weil people with our symptoms just doing a correction to the biological misalignment mother nature made by accident.
Of course, there is a totally other group of people, those who were born intersex, like I was. And those of us, who decide to emphasize one sex over the other sex, which is also part of our being, are, in my eyes, definitely not transitioning, but just deciding which part of them they see as the dominant one. I see me becoming a woman more like a reclaiming my original body that was taken away from me at birth. Because of the fact that I am male and female (sex wise) inside the same body, I do not really feel any dysphoria against the other side, and thus do not have any gender dysphoria because of my genitals. I seemed to have both sets at birth (male and female), and somebody decided the male ones are the ones that should stay with me, I just see them to be there and ready to be exchanged for the other set I am supposed to have.
I don't know if all intersex people feel like I feel, and because there is such a large variety of being intersex, others may feel absolutely different!
Hello again Everyone
I had copied my comment 51 to the "Attracted to or Want to Be" thread as I thought my comment may be helpful to the OP, Madison and Madison thanked me.
Madison received many responses on that thread and one was from Jeal which referred to my comment copied from here and therefore I am copying Jeal's response to this thread as it adds a further dimension to this debate.
Copy of Jeal's comment on Limerent Obsession with reference to my comment 51:
"In particular, I was struck my Pamela's response, and have first hand experience with limerent obsession for women. My confusion over being both physically attracted to women while feeling envious of them was a huge conflict for me. In fact, what finally broke though my resistance of accepting I am transgender was falling in love with one of those teen kids in a mini skirt. After six months of a torturous, surreal poetic obsession (and guilt, I am married and in my forties) I finally realized the truth for me. She was almost exactly like me at her age, the age where I put up a brutal wall of denial. Even her face structure, nose, eye color, hair, and build were similar(eerily like my Mom as well, but that is another whole set of issues). I literally, HAD fallen in love with the me that should have been. What is really bizarre, is the moment I saw that clearly and accepted it, my interest in her disappeared completely. Like magic. I still see her all the time. I like her. She is a funky artistic kid. That painful, obsessive love feeling is just a weird memory. Now I have a new name for that crawling, obsessive feeling: Gender dysphoria. Not having an object to pin it on as a something to have, makes me finally embrace being. No choice really :D. It feels very much like that teen girl inside has a gun pointed to my back saying "MARCH or I shoot".
So onward I go, trying to enjoy this very unexpected journey. Everyone's experience is different, and in my case feelings of longing to be a girl go back to when I was 6 or 7 (as does my first limerent obsession)."
Thank you Jeal for a such an interesting post and this is from a firsttime poster! Well done!
Hugs to all
Pamela