Which mtf milestone marks the trans-woman's "birthday"? No, I am not talking about the day that she was born into the world.
Is her mtf birthday...
The day she realizes she is trans?
The day she gets a letter for mtf HRT?
The day she takes her first mtf HRT medicine?
The day she goes full-time?
The day she gets her birth certificate changed?
The day she has gender reassignment surgery?
On some other milestone day?
Or on each of these days?
Chrissy
I think the day she goes full time would be best! Some don't want to get bottom surgery, others don't want to change the birtertificate.
I don't remember any of the key dates listed up there, and that would mean I can't celebrate a birthday?
For me it's when my legal name change was signed. That's when Stacy was first legally acknowledged anywhere. Much like a cis person gets a birth certificate.
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For me it was hormones. It was the biggest hurdle and the jumping off point for transitioning. Everything after hormones wasn't nearly as scary. Even GRS was kind of "Meh". I mean, yes I wanted it and it had to be done. However, post op was a very natural feeling and almost an afterthought immediately after. I would have thought that it would have been a more memorable event than it was... Still lives in "Hormones' " shadow.
For me, unquestionably going full-time. Coming out to my wife was big; HRT was big; GRS, when it happens, will be big. But the biggest of all was going full-time. Standing up at the community coffee meeting and declaring that I was transgender and would henceforth be known as Kathy.
My re-birthday is April 20th. I'll be two. ;)
Quote from: Harley Quinn on January 28, 2019, 06:37:10 AM
For me it was hormones. It was the biggest hurdle and the jumping off point for transitioning. Everything after hormones wasn't nearly as scary. Even GRS was kind of "Meh". I mean, yes I wanted it and it had to be done. However, post op was a very natural feeling and almost an afterthought immediately after. I would have thought that it would have been a more memorable event than it was... Still lives in "Hormones' " shadow.
I agree. It was the day I started hormones - I knew the process that I had deeply longed for was beginning. I even saved the package from the box of Life cereal I bought the same day and still have it :)
Amie
Well, so far the tally is:
02 when going full-time
02 when starting mtf HRT
01 when name change is done.
I guess other options I did not note above in the opening post might include:
.Accepting that you are trans mtf not just realizing that you are,
.Starting gender therapy,
.Setting medical appointment(s) for mft HRT,
.Actually getting the mtf HRT script (but not taking any meds yet).
But, I guess when can think too much about this and make that list really long.
Feel free to state a mtf milestone not listed in the original post or in this message.
Chrissy
I saw the date I decided to use a female name as my new birthday for a long time. Then there was a flotilla of other important dates: HRT, coming out, going full time, legal name change, surgery, etc. I decided I could have seven birthdays a year like a dog, or just use my actual birthday for simplicity's sake. :)
Hugs, Devlyn
I can see good arguments for all of the milestones mentioned. And, I have stop counting birthdays of ANY sort, being of a certain age, as they say.
But if I had to give ONE date, it would be the date of the letter from the Doctor saying, "Done." (Although she took way more words than one to say it.)
When I changed the gender marker at work, HR asked me for the "As-Of" date, I told them it was the day I was born 50 some years ago. They said, No, the official date when it changed. The date on the letter seemed highly appropriate...
;D
Kate
I think, in reality it was my birthday, because I was born intersex, and that determined the way my life would unfold itself!
i use the day that i started hormones.
For me, I have 3 important milestones:
The day I decided for sure to transistion.
The day I started HRT
The day that I came out Full-time
Danielle
Very interesting opinions so far ladies!
Chrissy
I can't wait to make orchi day my traniversary.
It will just seem so official.
It's hard to nail down any one event as all are significant milestones. If I was to pick one of those dates, I guess it would be the day my name was legally changed.
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Quote from: KatieP on January 28, 2019, 08:34:49 AM
I can see good arguments for all of the milestones mentioned. And, I have stop counting birthdays of ANY sort, being of a certain age, as they say.
But if I had to give ONE date, it would be the date of the letter from the Doctor saying, "Done." (Although she took way more words than one to say it.)
When I changed the gender marker at work, HR asked me for the "As-Of" date, I told them it was the day I was born 50 some years ago. They said, No, the official date when it changed. The date on the letter seemed highly appropriate...
;D
Kate
Yeah I think that has to do with anti discrimination policies. So if anything is ongoing or pops up it's back dated far enough. So I'd tend to push as far back as possible, or legally allowed.
Quote from: GingerVicki on January 28, 2019, 03:06:25 PM
I can't wait to make orchi day my traniversary.
It will just seem so official.
I am just back from another urologist, because my balls hurt like hell (balls of fire???). With a little luck, I might loose them soon!
But for me that is just another milestone. My first transition was after I was born, and I was made into a male.
I did not make any conscious decission later, to transition into a female my body made that decission for me my mind just followed the lead.
Quote from: Jaime320 on January 28, 2019, 03:36:21 PM
Yeah I think that has to do with anti discrimination policies. So if anything is ongoing or pops up it's back dated far enough. So I'd tend to push as far back as possible, or legally allowed.
VERY interesting! I had never thought of that.
Sometimes I am so innocent/stupid/behind...
;D
Kate
The only milestone I can think of that has a date is 6/19/1977. I didn't even remember exactly when it was until two years ago and had to look it up. My 42nd birthday of having SRS is approaching!
There were others but they're kind of hard to single out because I was trans as a kid and things are kind of a blur.
Memorable moments:
Being allowed to grow out my hair after the 2nd grade
Attending 14 different schools to complete six grades because I couldn't adjust to being a boy
7th grade: completely androgynous at 12 years old (1967)
7th grade: shrinks getting me excused from PE and locker rooms
7th grade: Parents legally threatening to sue the school so I didn't have to cut my hair
8th grade: spent a long horrible day in a fishbowl at the state university psychology dept.
Possibly related???
Summer 1969: Had "exploratory abdominal surgery" I still don't understand other than they had to cut you open to see what was going on inside back then and I had pains they couldn't figure out. They went away after that whatever they did and I have a pretty impressive scar.
In 1970 at 15 years old:
* nearly beaten to death in a homophobic attack - missed a month of school
* Having always been thought of and treated like a girl, parents understood I had to live and be one
* Got all girls clothes with ones that could pass as boy's worn to school
At 15½: Finally started showing signs of puberty and was terrified.
At 16: Was "passing" as a girl everywhere but known as a boy at school and seriously hated life
At 17: Diagnosed with "transsexualism" and started HRT (1972)
At 18: Went "full time" right after graduating high school (1973)
Got my first job as a secretary/receptionist shortly after that.
6/19/1977 - SRS in Colorado with Dr. Stanley Biber when I was 22. It was kind of a non-event but the only sort of date I can pin down as any sort of trans birthday.
OMG, Lisa. Just OMG...
Just so you know, I am SOOOOO in awe of you, to fight through all of that, back then, and to come out the other side.
Soooooo in awe.
Thank you for sharing the milestones...
Kate
I think it's the day I started hormones. I even put an annual reminder in my calendar (not that I'm in any danger of forgetting!). I may legitimately celebrate that day as my birthday from now on. I may switch to whenever I end up going full time, but we'll see.
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Ding dong that I can be sometimes, I got the date wrong, it was June 20th, 1977, not the 19th.
Quote from: KatieP on January 28, 2019, 11:18:23 PM
OMG, Lisa. Just OMG...
Just so you know, I am SOOOOO in awe of you, to fight through all of that, back then, and to come out the other side.
Soooooo in awe...
Thanks but no, please!
I am appreciative of what you're saying but please don't be in awe of my life or think I've "fought through" anything. My childhood is more of a matter of something I managed to blindly scrape through primarily due to the intuition and insight of my mother, the step-dad that came into my life when I was ten and my grandparents from my earliest years up until my tweens. These people and the environment and the attitudes I was raised with are solely responsible for the opportunities I had and are the only real reason to explain how I did somehow get through those years of my life. Please don't romanticize my story or give me any credit for doing something special.
It all looks good and neat and tidy on paper but make no mistake, I was a very troubled, distressed special needs child that was seen as emotionally and behaviorally disturbed and my life was filled with ongoing chaos and upheaval so these things I've listed as milestones are not things I did but rather things that just happened that were often unsettling or traumatic. I simply did not have a normal childhood and the lack of my ability to socially integrate into the world as a boy was something no one had ever seen or dealt with before and this only became more difficult and caused more problems the older I got. I started seeing psychiatrists and counselors when I was ten not to try and make me different or normal but to help with my social problems and the way I was treated.
Without being new age-y or metaphysical about it, I've never been able to figure this out except to wonder if I gave off some unconscious magic energy or an aura or a vibe or something as a girl that people just picked up on and I think it's something other than just femininity but I'm pretty clueless about things like this? It's been that way throughout my entire lifetime but whatever it is, it didn't work so well for me when I was a boy and it wasn't something I could or knew how to turn off.
None of us knew anything about trans or had language to define what was going on but I didn't leave my folks a whole lot of choices. They could have abandoned me, institutionalized me or tried to beat the girl out of me but they decided to love and support me instead which is where any awe or accolades should be directed because they had no examples or guidelines suggesting this approach and just went with their gut feelings and with what helped to make me happy.
Certainly by the time I entered high school it had become clear there was no way I was ever going to survive or be successful in life as a male person and then after I was assaulted, it became even more clear that life and the world wasn't going to beat the girl out of me either and once we all got on the same page about that, my folks were all on board with trying to give me the best shot at life they could. This was 49 years ago and it simply doesn't seem possible.
What is hard to convey is that all this just happened organically and more or less in a bubble. There was no concept of transitioning as a planned and calculated thing as it is now or maybe it's just because I simply grew up to be a girl as that's how I understood myself to be so there was never any real starting point to transition from or before and after. None of this was even labeled, at least not by me because I still didn't have the words or really understood the implications of what was happening.
This is hard to explain so it makes any sense because many here speak about some point or a milestone of recognizing they were trans but I never had a eureka moment like that or understood things within that framework because I didn't know anything about it. All I knew and never really questioned was that I was a girl even though my parts were different and I wanted other people to understand me the same way that I did.
I also didn't realize being successfully accepted into the world and by family as a girl and doing nothing different to stay in school as a he/him would take such a toll on me. The 1971/72 school year when I was a 16/17 y/o junior was nearly the end of me. I was depressed, isolated, withdrawn and suicidal and wanted to drop out of school because I just didn't want to be around people that knew I wasn't a real girl when in all other aspects of my life, that's what I was seen as being but to my folks, staying in school was hella more important than if I was a boy or a girl which had long since become irrelevant.
My folks found me another doctor to talk with but I didn't want to because I'd been talking to stupid doctors and being poked and prodded since I was ten. This was different though and I didn't stonewall. He sent me to a psychiatrist and a psychologist and they all agreed on the diagnosis of primary transsexualism but were extra cautious because trans youth weren't really a recognized or documented thing at the time but nevertheless, I started on HRT at the beginning of summer vacation before my senior year on the condition I just suck it up and try to make it through my last year and graduate and so I did a year later with hair to my waist and body changes way to obvious to miss and I never looked back.
I really didn't have any sort of fight or conflict with my family accepting, understanding and nurturing me as a girl even before I remember and while growing up but
they fought hard, did unbelievable things and put up with a lot of grief and hassle to help me deal with my problems and protected me as much as possible because I
was considered emotionally and behaviorally "special needs" I can hardly even imagine it now with all the different schools I had to go to or what they must have gone through socially supporting a kid like me when such things still today are considered outrageous and akin to child abuse by some.
So I'm not the one that had to fight any battles. All I had to do was survive and put up with a lot of crap which is hardly noteworthy. The rest of my life has been exceptionally average.
By 9/2017 I was on hrt and 9/2018 I went full time.
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GCS unquestionably is my birthday now, that's because it took me so long to get there, it's a BFF's birthday! and GCS was so much more of a revalation than I'd expected or hoped.
I mark all those milestones, they're all important however that's the only one that feels like finally becoming. Also I am not a fan of courts so while I'm glad about name change, it's not my favorite milestone.
I think my second birthday will be the day I receive my new birth certificate which will have my chosen name as birth name on it.
Quote from: Lynne on January 31, 2019, 01:41:43 PM
I think my second birthday will be the day I receive my new birth certificate which will have my chosen name as birth name on it.
That would be nice. I changed all my legal documentation 46 years ago and am a couple months shy of having had SRS 42 years ago and I was born in a state THAT WILL NOT CHANGE BIRTH CERTIFICATES!
Not sure what country you're in but in the U.S. this is a mismashed patchwork of different laws and requirements from state to state. Some will issue completely new BC's and seal the record that it's ever been changed which in my opinion is how it should be done and some will issue new ones but leave a paper trail that it has been changed or mark the actual certificate itself as amended. Some will make changes but list but list the actual before and after information which couldn't be any more useless.
The National Center For Transgender Equality (NCTE) ID Documents page (https://transequality.org/documents) has more information if you live in the United States.
For me it is the date I went to court 3/10/17 and had my name changed. Which was 10 days after I started living completely full time so it was pretty close together. Those 10 days were really when my daily life changed.
I would have to look up the start dates on HRT - I remember the month Oct 2016. My GCS was only an orchie so not as life changing as vaginoplasty but still a big deal and I can't remember for sure if it was June or July 2017 - guess I should look that up LOL.
These are very diverse and interesting "mtf birthday" comments!
Thank you for sharing!
Chrissy
I was thinking about it, and am not sure, which date is more important for me, my upcoming orhi, or my upcoming name and gender change. I hink the later is more the date I will choose, becuse that documents that I am a new person!
Quote from: Lisa_K on January 31, 2019, 08:34:59 PM
That would be nice. I changed all my legal documentation 46 years ago and am a couple months shy of having had SRS 42 years ago and I was born in a state THAT WILL NOT CHANGE BIRTH CERTIFICATES!
Not sure what country you're in but in the U.S. this is a mismashed patchwork of different laws and requirements from state to state. Some will issue completely new BC's and seal the record that it's ever been changed which in my opinion is how it should be done and some will issue new ones but leave a paper trail that it has been changed or mark the actual certificate itself as amended. Some will make changes but list but list the actual before and after information which couldn't be any more useless.
The National Center For Transgender Equality (NCTE) ID Documents page (https://transequality.org/documents) has more information if you live in the United States.
I'm sorry that the state you were born in doesn't change birth certificates and I agree that this is a really bad practice.
I also find it strange that in some(or all?) states you have to announce your name change in a newspaper and that you have to appear in court too.
I live in Hungary in Europe and until a few years ago we had a practice in place which had it's flaws but at least after everything was done we got all our records corrected with the new name and gender marker. Name and gender marker change is connected in our country, you cannot change only just one of them. We have a list of male and female names which are officially accepted by the government and only those can be given to newborns. Trans people have to pick a name with the correct gender from one of those lists as well.
And when I say all records, I mean everything. High school diploma, university degrees, driver's license, all ID cards and they even issue a new birth certificate and effectively erase the old one. Tax ID numbers and SSN does not change so you cannot commit fraud but every document lists your chosen name and gender correctly at the end. I guess it must leave some paper trail but that is not accessible to anyone normally. Of course you have to still go to other non-government connected places where they have your name on record and change that but that's understandable.
In recent years our government reorganized everything and they just stopped processing name and gender marker change requests. Our local trans organization is doing everything they can to get it going again but who knows when they'll be successful. So when they start to process these requests again it might be a good move for me to apply as soon as I can even if I don't feel totally ready because who knows when I'll have the chance.
Quote from: Lynne on February 01, 2019, 03:53:42 PM
We have a list of male and female names which are officially accepted by the government and only those can be given to newborns. Trans people have to pick a name with the correct gender from one of those lists as well.
This is also the case in Germany. You name has to clearly identify your gender. Maria is the only gender free name, as long as it is used together with a second name that identifies the gender.
I wear a bracelet for some important milestones I have one for when I lost 185 lbs, another for when I started HRT, and one for the when I changed my name and gender. I consider the day I changed my name and gender as my birth date its only a few days from my actual birthday anyway.
I will be adding another bracelet this year after I have surgery which just happens to be on the same day of the month as my name change, when they offered me that date when scheduling it I just had to take it.
Quote from: Dietlind on January 31, 2019, 09:12:07 PM
I was thinking about it, and am not sure, which date is more important for me, my upcoming orhi, or my upcoming name and gender change. I hink the later is more the date I will choose, becuse that documents that I am a new person!
Dietlind YAY !!! I knew you were thinking about the orchie but is it and the name change scheduled ??
Quote from: Lisa_K on January 28, 2019, 09:34:23 PM
The only milestone I can think of that has a date is 6/19/1977. I didn't even remember exactly when it was until two years ago and had to look it up. My 42nd birthday of having SRS is approaching!
Wow! You guys are amazing!!! 😨 The closest l can come to an accurate date for my SRS is mid-summer 1972. It took me almost a year to recover from that and all l remember is that it was a very difficult recovery and there was a lot of pain. I had started my transitional hormone regimin about a year earlier so there is no way l could actually pick or choose which day l could possibly identify as significant.
What l find significant is that l was saved. Somehow l survived those awful years and l can only attribute my good fortune to the merciful Grace of God.
Up against the two of you, I feel like a kid. My surgery date was June 23,1982 and l returned to work July 12. Returning to work wasn't one of my better ideas however I consider the 23rd to be my second birthday.
Quote from: KimOct on February 02, 2019, 01:56:48 AM
Dietlind YAY !!! I knew you were thinking about the orchie but is it and the name change scheduled ??
I will see my urologist on Monday, and when my blood work shows the expected low or non existing testosteron he feels it should, the little guys come off, and health insurance will pay for itI My testes are extremely atrophied, and hurt for almost a year to touch. He thinks I have a chronic inflammation in there, and if they don't do any testosterone anyway, they might just go to avoid more future complication with the testicles.
Monday is the day!
And once they are gone, I will start with name and gender change!
Quote from: Dena on February 02, 2019, 03:50:19 PM
Up against the two of you, I feel like a kid. My surgery date was June 23,1982 and l returned to work July 12. Returning to work wasn't one of my better ideas however I consider the 23rd to be my second birthday.
Going based off the SRS date I was reborn September 11th 2011.
Quote from: Complete on February 02, 2019, 03:16:00 PM
Wow! You guys are amazing!!! The closest l can come to an accurate date for my SRS is mid-summer 1972.
All I remembered was SRS was in the summer of 1977 when I was 22. Last year was the first time I actually bothered to look it up and when I made my earlier post in this thread I even remembered it wrong so it's not like I bake a cake or throw a party or anything.
I knew the date because I kept a written diary, still have it and consider it one of my treasures. I titled it
My Journal of Seemingly Significant events VOL II. I actually have two of them with the first one going back to when I was put on hormones at 17 that makes me have dysphoric memories when I look at it. The second one starts when I had a surgery date and financing locked in and is a real hoot to read with the last entry before I went digital in 1992 which is kind of a shame really. It documents my surgery and recovery, good times and bad times but most interestingly to me, all my romances, crushes and heartbreaks. I had forgotten how many people I slept with and was a little surprised because I didn't remember being such a tart. I'd also remembered telling my former husband about my history before I had sex with him wrong. It wasn't until six weeks later when I realized things were serious.
Quote from: Dena on February 02, 2019, 03:50:19 PM
Up against the two of you, I feel like a kid. My surgery date was June 23,1982 and l returned to work July 12. Returning to work wasn't one of my better ideas however I consider the 23rd to be my second birthday.
We'll still let you in the club, Dena! Hahaha! Joking of course. I took a full six weeks off work but my journal does note that I rode my motorcycle around the block a couple times 28 days after surgery just to see if I could do it because I didn't have any other transportation.
I just turned 48 last week, and am in the early stages of transitioning. My wife and I agreed that she would start using my new name on my birthday, which she has, and I think I'm just going to count that as Jessica's birthday as well.
Easy to remember that way :)
As someone who suffered a dirth of birthdays for many years , only getting one official one every 4 years , I have always taken the opportunity to celebrate whenever i could. So birthdays were traditionally spread over a few days.
I'm inclined to celebrate all sorts of anniversaries.
But ; noting i have yet to have GRS/GCS (i'm in the list for surgery, so it won't be long now) at present it's the day I formally changed name and went full time (i was effectively full time before, but i hadn't made it official) , which was pre planned as exactly 6 months from my original birthday. There was no way after postponing it for a long time to satisfy family promises that I was going to wait , until my original birthday.
So I guess when i have GRS i'll have another one.
Quote from: Dietlind on February 02, 2019, 06:46:40 PM
I will see my urologist on Monday, and when my blood work shows the expected low or non existing testosteron he feels it should, the little guys come off, and health insurance will pay for itI My testes are extremely atrophied, and hurt for almost a year to touch. He thinks I have a chronic inflammation in there, and if they don't do any testosterone anyway, they might just go to avoid more future complication with the testicles.
Monday is the day!
And once they are gone, I will start with name and gender change!
If you want GRS possibly later. May want to consult with who you plan to use. It's my understanding standard Orchi could interfere with a future GRS. A slight shift makes for a better outcome later.
Quote from: Jaime320 on February 03, 2019, 05:53:47 PM
If you want GRS possibly later. May want to consult with who you plan to use. It's my understanding standard Orchi could interfere with a future GRS. A slight shift makes for a better outcome later.
I want a vulva with limited depth only. But if the surgeon puts the incision properly, there will no tissue problems for future use as labia minor. Problems could be with extreme penile atrophy, for the case the penis skin is to be used with the penile inversion technique to form the vagina. But I don't want one of those because I do not think that my sexual orientation, or activity will change much, and I do not want the hustle of needing life long dilation!
Quote from: Dietlind on February 03, 2019, 07:41:21 PM
I want a vulva with limited depth only. But if the surgeon puts the incision properly, there will no tissue problems for future use as labia minor. Problems could be with extreme penile atrophy, for the case the penis skin is to be used with the penile inversion technique to form the vagina. But I don't want one of those because I do not think that my sexual orientation, or activity will change much, and I do not want the hustle of needing life long dilation!
Once you have dilated for a while it's more like masturbation for maintenance.
Quote from: NatalieRene on February 03, 2019, 07:57:12 PM
Once you have dilated for a while it's more like masturbation for maintenance.
But if you are asexual and don't have any libido, mastrubation is no funn at all. It just calls for a tired arm and a cramped up hand! I'd rather use that time to read a book!
I think I would be doing pretty fine with a nice looking vulva, and a 1 or 2 inch deep vagina, just for the looks to make the optical impression right!
Quote from: Dietlind on February 03, 2019, 08:34:24 PM
But if you are asexual and don't have any libido, mastrubation is no funn at all. It just calls for a tired arm and a cramped up hand! I'd rather use that time to read a book!
I think I would be doing pretty fine with a nice looking vulva, and a 1 or 2 inch deep vagina, just for the looks to make the optical impression right!
I'm sorry. I guess I don't understand because the concept of not being able to get off sounds so alien to me. For me a penis is quite the joystick and I am convinced the cliterus is to make it as pleasurable as possible to keep him all the way in for cis woman for the survival of the species. :angel:
Reading can be nice too. A good technical manual for work will put me right to sleep. ;)
If you don't mind me asking who are you going to show it to that isn't going to want to play a little? Is it something just to keep the worry of if the penis is showing away?
Quote from: NatalieRene on February 03, 2019, 08:50:24 PM
I'm sorry. I guess I don't understand because the concept of not being able to get off sounds so alien to me. For me a penis is quite the joystick and I am convinced the cliterus is to make it as pleasurable as possible to keep him all the way in for cis woman for the survival of the species. :angel:
Reading can be nice too. A good technical manual for work will put me right to sleep. ;)
If you don't mind me asking who are you going to show it to that isn't going to want to play a little? Is it something just to keep the worry of if the penis is showing away?
I don't necessarily want to show it to anybody, it is just for me. If I look into the mirror and see that I have no traces of masculinity anymore, i will be happy. If it happens that I might find a person, who I would like to share the view with, it is fine with me, because I do not want a mal penis come near to my body. I think, I am as lesbian as they come, and have no desire to change this. I'd rather have no sex at all, than having it with a man.
I never was bi, never was interested in men, except of their brains, and ability to communicate with me, their physical appearance is of no interest to me!
Quote from: NatalieRene on February 03, 2019, 08:50:24 PM
I'm sorry. I guess I don't understand because the concept of not being able to get off sounds so alien to me. For me a penis is quite the joystick and I am convinced the cliterus is to make it as pleasurable as possible to keep him all the way in for cis woman for the survival of the species. :angel:
Forgot to answer this part.
I have not have had any kind of sex for more than 17 years now. I am a very monogamous person, and in the beginning, I would have felt like cheating on my ex, who I still love very much. But one has to know, that part of my problems was that I could not function as a male anymore for a while at that time, which means, I could have had oral sex only. Because of no interest in men, they were out of question as a partner, and I had no idea how I could have a cis woman as a sexual partner, if I could not penetrate her. I was not at that point yet, at which i knew that I was o be a female, my body was there all the time, but my mind was still in the male world. I slowly stated with my transition, not on purpose, just driftet into it, and became more an more a female. But I had absolutely no dating skills for any lesbian relationship, in fact, i did not (and still do not) know how to identify leasbians and where to find them.
My testosterone went into the basement, and I did not get any additional estrogen (I am not sure where the estrogen came from that made my boobs grow, my urologist feels that I might have a very cripplet, minimally functioning ovary that does that bit of estrogen), and away went the libido. I am now so used to not have any sex that I don't miss it anymore. Yes, I still have memories that orgasms were a pleasurable thing (but I liked the foreplay always way better than the act itself), and I would not mind to have them again, but not with a male partner. If I can't find a female partner, I just continue to live without them!
Quote from: Dietlind on February 03, 2019, 07:41:21 PM
I want a vulva with limited depth only. But if the surgeon puts the incision properly, there will no tissue problems for future use as labia minor. Problems could be with extreme penile atrophy, for the case the penis skin is to be used with the penile inversion technique to form the vagina. But I don't want one of those because I do not think that my sexual orientation, or activity will change much, and I do not want the hustle of needing life long dilation!
I'm in the same boat as you. I did experiment with men, but only to reinforce my feelings of feminity. Never felt an attraction. As for the surgery, I'm not interested in the high maintenance of needing to dilate, for something I'll likely never use or need.
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Quote from: StacyRenee on February 04, 2019, 09:42:18 AM
I'm in the same boat as you. I did experiment with men, but only to reinforce my feelings of feminity. Never felt an attraction. As for the surgery, I'm not interested in the high maintenance of needing to dilate, for something I'll likely never use or need.
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Wow, you did experiment with guys! I could no do this, I just can't! I analyzed myself as deeply as I could, to try to find a hidden corner in my feelings that might show some interest into guys, but there is nothing in my sexuality or emotions that would want to do this.
I have to be careful how I word my dislike, because I do not want to be the reason of dysphoria for those members here, who like guys. but I dislike them a lot. However, I like the mental ability of many guys I know, specifically when we can talk about technical things, or politics, etc.
I just don't want them to share my pretty private emotions!
I would just add something to the discussion as I am six weeks post op after a minimal depth vaginoplasty. Vaginal penetration is not the only or even the prefered way for a woman to have an orgasm. Clitoral orgasms are awesome, just ask my SO of 49 years! My GRS surgeon pre op asked if I wanted a clitoris, I said definitely yes! I am still way too sore and swollen, but when things finally settle down I will try. :)
Quote from: Dietlind on February 04, 2019, 10:13:14 AM
I have to be careful how I word my dislike, because I do not want to be the reason of dysphoria for those members here, who like guys. but I dislike them a lot. However, I like the mental ability of many guys I know, specifically when we can talk about technical things, or politics, etc.
I just don't want them to share my pretty private emotions!
So l am probably waaa-away off base here, but since the conversation has seemingly strayed on to one I my favorite subjects, (men), l will just add that as a woman who thoroughly enjoys almost every aspect about men, that perhaps your disdain for them comes from never having gotten to know them as a woman. And...it seems that all your sexual experience has been with women, (as men).
Quote from: Complete on February 04, 2019, 07:44:41 PM
So l am probably waaa-away off base here, but since the conversation has seemingly strayed on to one I my favorite subjects, (men), l will just add that as a woman who thoroughly enjoys almost every aspect about men, that perhaps your disdain for them comes from never having gotten to know them as a woman. And...it seems that all your sexual experience has been with women, (as men).
You are correct in your assumptions. I never ever had the desire to be with a man. Because of my screwed up biology, I should have always be interested in men, too, because I always lived with female emotions, inside a mostly female body.
But this did not cut it either. I rather lived alone for more than 16 years than trying to get into a romantic relationship with a man. You can believe me, I did lots of soul searching because being Bi would have doubled the possible numbers of partners, but I just can't get the men part to click. I seem to be a lesbian through and through, I don't know why, but who knows anyway, why one has a certain sexual orientation. I just don't know, it might change, once I would have had SRS? But for now, the only sexual interaction I could have with man would be anal, and I have a deep sitting horror about this (both my wife and I never liked this kind of sex). This might be one of the reasons that i don't want o even start with guys?
I might be screwed up m ore than I ever thought I was?
I don't think you are screwed up at all, Dietland. I think you simply have a sexual orientation towards women, whictos perfectly fine. lncidently, I never had an attraction to men until after my recovery from srs.
Quote from: Dietlind on February 04, 2019, 08:45:08 PM
You are correct in your assumptions. I never ever had the desire to be with a man. Because of my screwed up biology, I should have always be interested in men, too, because I always lived with female emotions, inside a mostly female body.
Hardly. If this were true, there would be no such thing as lesbians.
Gender orientation is a different thing than gender identity. The correlations found in the brain that have been identified in the tiny amount of research done so far point to activity in different areas of the brain involved in gender orientation than in identity.
Quote from: Dietlind on February 04, 2019, 08:45:08 PM
But this did not cut it either. I rather lived alone for more than 16 years than trying to get into a romantic relationship with a man. You can believe me, I did lots of soul searching because being Bi would have doubled the possible numbers of partners, but I just can't get the men part to click. I seem to be a lesbian through and through, I don't know why, but who knows anyway, why one has a certain sexual orientation. I just don't know, it might change, once I would have had SRS? But for now, the only sexual interaction I could have with man would be anal, and I have a deep sitting horror about this (both my wife and I never liked this kind of sex). This might be one of the reasons that i don't want o even start with guys?
I might be screwed up m ore than I ever thought I was?
So, you have a strongly feminine gender identity, and are attracted to women. That describes very roughly a third of the community of transgender women. Broadly, very roughly a third of trans folks are oriented toward their identified gender, a third towards the other side of the gender spectrum, and a third are asexual. (
There are also biisexual, pansexual, aromantic, and hundreds of other labels in here somewhere. This is just a very broad and vey rough description, so please don't be upset with me.)
You are hardly screwed up. You have a pretty common identity and orientation for the trand community. You have some sexual acts, positions, or roles that you don't like.
Gender Confirmation Surgery (GCS) will change what's between your legs, not what's between your ears. Your actual orientation won't likely change, although you may find that you are open to considering some things that you might not have before, due to internalized social gender roles and taboos.
Dietlind, you just do you. Don't worry about not being what someone else says you should be. Don't fret about the 'proper' social roles. Just be open to unexpected thoughts and emotions, even if they make you slightly uncomfortable, and consider what these might be telling you. If you have a gender therapist, be open to mentioning and discussing these matters.
Quote from: Complete on February 04, 2019, 07:44:41 PM
So l am probably waaa-away off base here, but since the conversation has seemingly strayed on to one I my favorite subjects, (men), l will just add that as a woman who thoroughly enjoys almost every aspect about men, that perhaps your disdain for them comes from never having gotten to know them as a woman. And...it seems that all your sexual experience has been with women, (as men).
Oh yeah and lets not forget men talk differently to woman than they do among themselves. I vaguely remember what it was like but I catch glimpses reading guy friends (people I know or family) posts to other men and oh man. You have to piece the words together to figure out what they are saying and it can be very aggressive at times. But when they are talking with you and want to get to know (code for sex) they get all sweet and fluffy for a lack of a better way to describe it.
I'll never forget the first time my boyfriend started playing with my ear lobe .... :o ok I'll be back in a bit.
If a person doesn't like men or vice-versa that isn't a fault it is just a preference but I think of men like big fluffy teddy bears that occasionally maul someones face off on command. >:-)
Quote from: Michelle_P on February 04, 2019, 09:45:49 PM
Hardly. If this were true, there would be no such thing as lesbians.
Gender orientation is a different thing than gender identity. The correlations found in the brain that have been identified in the tiny amount of research done so far point to activity in different areas of the brain involved in gender orientation than in identity.
So, you have a strongly feminine gender identity, and are attracted to women. That describes very roughly a third of the community of transgender women. Broadly, very roughly a third of trans folks are oriented toward their identified gender, a third towards the other side of the gender spectrum, and a third are asexual. (There are also biisexual, pansexual, aromantic, and hundreds of other labels in here somewhere. This is just a very broad and vey rough description, so please don't be upset with me.)
You are hardly screwed up. You have a pretty common identity and orientation for the trand community. You have some sexual acts, positions, or roles that you don't like.
Gender Confirmation Surgery (GCS) will change what's between your legs, not what's between your ears. Your actual orientation won't likely change, although you may find that you are open to considering some things that you might not have before, due to internalized social gender roles and taboos.
Dietlind, you just do you. Don't worry about not being what someone else says you should be. Don't fret about the 'proper' social roles. Just be open to unexpected thoughts and emotions, even if they make you slightly uncomfortable, and consider what these might be telling you. If you have a gender therapist, be open to mentioning and discussing these matters.
This is very true. Have you ever just got lost in someones voice before. I have always loved Bob Ross's voice on his painting show.
Quote from: Michelle_P on February 04, 2019, 09:45:49 PM
If you have a gender therapist, be open to mentioning and discussing these matters.
We are doing this almost every other session! I actually would like to be bi or something like this, because of the way more possibilities to find a partner, but it does not work that way, I just can't do men!
Quote from: Dietlind on February 04, 2019, 10:53:53 PM
We are doing this almost every other session! I actually would like to be bi or something like this, because of the way more possibilities to find a partner, but it does not work that way, I just can't do men!
Well part of the problem is usually the guy is in charge when it comes to doing. I kid. You can't force attraction and love. To your own heart be true.
Quote from: NatalieRene on February 04, 2019, 10:57:50 PM
Well part of the problem is usually the guy is in charge when it comes to doing. I kid. You can't force attraction and love. To your own heart be true.
That's what it is all about, an old lady has to do what an old lady has to do! I m just glad that I have a libido down in the 3rd basement level.
But cuddling would be nice, I really miss skin contact a lot!
Quote from: NatalieRene on February 04, 2019, 09:54:27 PM
This is very true. Have you ever just got lost in someones voice before. I have always loved Bob Ross's voice on his painting show.
I am so grateful that I am not the only one! I love everything about men and I confess that I have a weakness for uber masculine men, not muscle or size but attitude. Not that I ever date those men, well, yeah I did once, cop, and... seriously Michelle let it go! It is always my senses that betray me though. Their firmness against my softness, and for the love of god why do they have to smell sooooo good!?!? I have had a guy deliver a package to my office once that even made my brain forget how to work. Is that even a thing, because it happened. To this day the most impressive thing about that encounter is that I was able to speak and direct him to where he needed to go. There are men with a voice that makes me forget how to breath though. Looooong ago I competed against a guy on a regular basis that had a voice like that, it was almost torture. He was such an ass, seriously he was terrible, but his voice was like, I need cpr incredible. The most amazing torture I have experienced in my life was probably him with his head over my shoulder, mouth right next to my ear telling me what I should do right after I had just beaten him. I drug that match out as long as I could even though I had beaten my opponent within the first few moments of both games. This may sound so sleazy and horrible but I have friends that say that their nipples are a direct connection to their hoo haa, and yeah I admit that if a guy digs in hard enough I can get there too, a sexy voice overrides everything though.
Quote from: IAmM on February 05, 2019, 01:36:09 AM
... seriously Michelle let it go ...
You do what is right for you, based on your orientation and needs. I will do what is right for me.
Let go of what? Being a
lesbian with a 30% chance of queer? Sorry, that's how I am wired.
Prescriptive posts, directing others in what they SHOULD do to meet normative standards, are something that is inappropriate, and one of the worst 'features' of 'support' sites. Please don't do that.
Quote from: IAmM on February 05, 2019, 01:36:09 AM
I am so grateful that I am not the only one! I love everything about men and I confess that I have a weakness for uber masculine men, not muscle or size but attitude. Not that I ever date those men, well, yeah I did once, cop, and... seriously Michelle let it go! It is always my senses that betray me though. Their firmness against my softness, and for the love of god why do they have to smell sooooo good!?!? I have had a guy deliver a package to my office once that even made my brain forget how to work. Is that even a thing, because it happened. To this day the most impressive thing about that encounter is that I was able to speak and direct him to where he needed to go. There are men with a voice that makes me forget how to breath though. Looooong ago I competed against a guy on a regular basis that had a voice like that, it was almost torture. He was such an ass, seriously he was terrible, but his voice was like, I need cpr incredible. The most amazing torture I have experienced in my life was probably him with his head over my shoulder, mouth right next to my ear telling me what I should do right after I had just beaten him. I drug that match out as long as I could even though I had beaten my opponent within the first few moments of both games. This may sound so sleazy and horrible but I have friends that say that their nipples are a direct connection to their hoo haa, and yeah I admit that if a guy digs in hard enough I can get there too, a sexy voice overrides everything though.
The thing is I would not have thought that I'd be submissive because my personality is so strong but I have found that I like to be spanked and then taken by my boyfriend. Just throw me on the bed and get it on. If my boyfriend hasn't taken care of business in a while I have noticed that I get a bit shrilly.
This didn't start out on purpose and the first time was a rush and a shock but yeah there it is.
He has an awesome voice too. Not to mention he can do different voices like Hank Hill, Goofy and the movie announcer guy so he can be a hilarious friend too.
Quote from: Michelle_P on February 05, 2019, 10:45:39 AM
You do what is right for you, based on your orientation and needs. I will do what is right for me.
Let go of what? Being a lesbian with a 30% chance of queer? Sorry, that's how I am wired.
Prescriptive posts, directing others in what they SHOULD do to meet normative standards, are something that is inappropriate, and one of the worst 'features' of 'support' sites. Please don't do that.
I'm honestly not sure what she was referring to but I would hope that none of us are getting on anyones case for their orientation. The only way a orientation is a negative is if you feel that you have to hide it and live a lie.
Personally I understand how Lilly felt on How I met your mother. She loves her buy but has cruses on certain woman and is curious what it would be like.
Let's all get along please. ;D
Quote from: Michelle_P on February 05, 2019, 10:45:39 AM
You do what is right for you, based on your orientation and needs. I will do what is right for me.
Let go of what? Being a lesbian with a 30% chance of queer? Sorry, that's how I am wired.
, I feel that I am not even any queer at all. I think my wiring is 100% lesbian.
Quote
Prescriptive posts, directing others in what they SHOULD do to meet normative standards, are something that is inappropriate, and one of the worst 'features' of 'support' sites. Please don't do that.
I did not see anything wrong in her writing, she just writes about how she is wired. I find it amazing that anybody can forget the world because of another person using their voice. It is actually enlightening for ma to read how other people are wired. I think my entire wiring is a little disarranged because of all those mutations that were thrown into my poor body.
If we can't write openly in this forum, which other outlet do we have?
Quote from: Michelle_P on February 05, 2019, 10:45:39 AM
You do what is right for you, based on your orientation and needs. I will do what is right for me.
Let go of what? Being a lesbian with a 30% chance of queer? Sorry, that's how I am wired.
Prescriptive posts, directing others in what they SHOULD do to meet normative standards, are something that is inappropriate, and one of the worst 'features' of 'support' sites. Please don't do that.
Oh no, no, no! I am so sorry for the misunderstanding! ME Michelle not YOU Michelle. It's a terrible habit I have of referencing myself as Michelle, even in my head, when I am chastising myself or not very proud of something that I have done. Probably makes me less than sane but I can't seem to stop. I hope that is more clear and you can forgive any misunderstandings. You see, that particular guy was pretty amazing but it didn't work because I am trans. I don't hold it against him but I still think about him and wish that it could have turned out differently. That is why I was telling myself to let it go.
Quote from: NatalieRene on February 05, 2019, 11:32:49 AM
The thing is I would not have thought that I'd be submissive because my personality is so strong but I have found that I like to be spanked and then taken by my boyfriend. Just throw me on the bed and get it on. If my boyfriend hasn't taken care of business in a while I have noticed that I get a bit shrilly.
This didn't start out on purpose and the first time was a rush and a shock but yeah there it is.
He has an awesome voice too. Not to mention he can do different voices like Hank Hill, Goofy and the movie announcer guy so he can be a hilarious friend too.
Two more things in common then. :) My boyfriend is always making me laugh too and I tend to get a little irritable if I haven't been taken care of in a while.
I am pretty submissive and I have thought that I would like to try some things like that, I can't though. Not even spanking and especially nothing harder, no restraining and no choking. I cannot. I felt so bad when I visited a friend who is really into that sort of thing. She had an, event I guess, that she was going to participate in and I thought that I would be okay with it, I mean they agree on everything that is acceptable and what will be done before they begin, should be fine right? I couldn't even watch it at all and stopped watching before it was her turn. I had to go to another part of the club that was playing really angry music that I was not into at all and wait for her. We left as soon as she finished her part and I have felt like I ruined her night every since.
Quote from: IAmM on February 05, 2019, 02:33:38 PM
Oh no, no, no! I am so sorry for the misunderstanding! ME Michelle not YOU Michelle. It's a terrible habit I have of referencing myself as Michelle, even in my head, when I am chastising myself or not very proud of something that I have done. Probably makes me less than sane but I can't seem to stop. I hope that is more clear and you can forgive any misunderstandings. You see, that particular guy was pretty amazing but it didn't work because I am trans. I don't hold it against him but I still think about him and wish that it could have turned out differently. That is why I was telling myself to let it go.
Two more things in common then. :) My boyfriend is always making me laugh too and I tend to get a little irritable if I haven't been taken care of in a while.
I am pretty submissive and I have thought that I would like to try some things like that, I can't though. Not even spanking and especially nothing harder, no restraining and no choking. I cannot. I felt so bad when I visited a friend who is really into that sort of thing. She had an, event I guess, that she was going to participate in and I thought that I would be okay with it, I mean they agree on everything that is acceptable and what will be done before they begin, should be fine right? I couldn't even watch it at all and stopped watching before it was her turn. I had to go to another part of the club that was playing really angry music that I was not into at all and wait for her. We left as soon as she finished her part and I have felt like I ruined her night every since.
I'm not into pain either. It's just something he does while in certain specific positions. That's why I said it was a shock the first time.
Quote from: NatalieRene on February 05, 2019, 02:48:52 PM
I'm not into pain either. It's just something he does while in certain specific positions. That's why I said it was a shock the first time.
Women can spank too [emoji48]!
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Quote from: StacyRenee on February 05, 2019, 02:55:38 PM
Women can spank too [emoji48]!
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I wasn't implying woman cannot. But it was just the entire thing, stripped, pushed onto the bed, mounted and spanked. It's just so dominant and yes it turns me on. Ok I have to stop before I get flushed.
I haven't been with a woman so I don't have experience to draw from but I can say that if it's been a while he does a good job.
Maybe once he gets out here with the right couple we can swing and I can try it out.
@IAmM Please accept my apologies. I did not understand that you were referring to yourself. And another Michelle! Yaaay! We are taking over. :) That is a popular name for gals born in the 1950s and early 1960s, and really spiked around 1970 thanks to The Beatles.
@Dietlind I often refer to myself as lesbian with a 30% chance of queer a bit facetiously, as I am most strongly attracted to persons with a strongly feminine gender presentation and identity. I do not know what is in their briefs when I feel this attraction, and that doesn't really matter to me.
This is a bit different than what the standard description of lesbianism would cover, and is closer to what would be considered queer among those not identifying as cisheteronormative persons. So, my orientation is nominally lesbian, but open to a broader range of people than the lesbian culture or typical identity might accept.
I'm still not sure what I might call my MtF 'birthday'. I first came out in early March one year, started HRT over a few months in the summer, with some back and forth with endocrinologists over what turned out to be a benign microprolactinoma, went full time in late October, had Gender Confirmation Surgery (GCS) a year later in late October, had Facial Feminization Surgery (FFS) in late August, and have my biological birth date in late November.
On the legal side I changed my name and gender marker in January and got new birth certificates, drivers license, and passport in late February.
I'm mostly 'late'. ;)
My full time and GCS dates are pretty close to the biological birth date, so maybe I'll just celebrate them all together.
Quote from: Michelle_P on February 05, 2019, 03:10:42 PM
@Dietlind I often refer to myself as lesbian with a 30% chance of queer a bit facetiously, as I am most strongly attracted to persons with a strongly feminine gender presentation and identity. I do not know what is in their briefs when I feel this attraction, and that doesn't really matter to me.
I have never been in a situation to meet a strongly feminine presenting male, and i do not know how I would react? I might be able to have a relation with a trans man (I think),because I know there is an underlying femininity, and we both would know what it means being trans. But I don't know if I ever met a trans guy? I know only those chest pounding types, and those guys, as nice as they are as buddies, are not the right partners for me!
Quote
My full time and GCS dates are pretty close to the biological birth date, so maybe I'll just celebrate them all together.
The way it goes, my orchi and my name and gender change might be pretty close to my biological birthday, too!
My second birthday? Nov. 25, 2003, when I had my SRS. I remember being wheeled into the OR at around 8 am, and having one of Suporn's nurses say "happy birthday!" to me (which made me smile). I agree, happy birthday to me! My, how time flies, it's been 15 plus years post-op for me.
Quote from: Michelle_P on February 05, 2019, 03:10:42 PM
This is a bit different than what the standard description of lesbianism would cover, and is closer to what would be considered queer among those not identifying as cisheteronormative persons. So, my orientation is nominally lesbian, but open to a broader range of people than the lesbian culture or typical identity might accept.
They why not say gynephilic (or androphilic if you like men)?
Quote from: Lisa_K on February 05, 2019, 10:29:26 PM
They why not say gynephilic (or androphilic if you like men)?
Look up the definitions for those two terms. My sexual attraction is to persons with a strongly femme presentation and identity, provided I also have an emotional and romantic attraction to them. This is not strictly an attraction to what any TERF would consider to be a woman, and doesn't meet what 'gynephilic' would imply.
Be very careful about claiming any trans person is co-opting an identity, label, or culture. That way lies insanity, along with validation of the worst transphobic commentary.
Just because a certain group of homosexual females have claimed to be the owner of the term Lesbians, does not mean that i have to adhere to their interpretation of the word! Webster explains lesbains as "[ from the reputed homosexual band associated with Sappho of Lesbos ] : of or relating to homosexuality between females".
I am such a person, and determine my sexual leaning to be lesbian. If those self proclaimed protectors of the holy lesbian grail like this or not, I m a lesbian! I might not be attracted to some of those purists, or b attractive to them, but I don't really care!
I was at a LGBTQI breakfast the other morning, and sat next to a militant lesbian. She told me that she did not consider me to be a lesbian, because I was not born as a female! I told her about my intersex condition, and that I am probably as female as she is, and she thought about it for a wilke, and said that I might be a real lesbian!
This shows, all that talk is nothing else but semantics, and I don't give a hoot about it!
I feel what I feel, and don't care what labels other paste onto my feelings!
Quote from: IAmM on February 06, 2019, 03:28:35 PM
Yeah, got me flushed. Like I said, sounds wonderful but I have never been able to handle it. My boyfriend says that I freeze up, go completely cold, he can do whatever he wants but it is like I am not even there. For me all I can think about is please stop, leave me alone, I don't actually say it though.
If anybody would do that to me, I would kill him! If I would have done that to my wife, she would have killed me!\
Everybody is different!
Quote from: Dietlind on February 06, 2019, 03:56:35 PM
If anybody would do that to me, I would kill him! If I would have done that to my wife, she would have killed me!\
Everybody is different!
It isn't a hard spanking just enough to feel it. Different strokes for different fokes.
Quote from: NatalieRene on February 06, 2019, 04:17:32 PM
It isn't a hard spanking just enough to feel it. Different strokes for different fokes.
Still would have been a brutal killing of the aggressor! But as you saiy, everybody ticks different!
Quote from: Dietlind on February 06, 2019, 10:31:18 AM
Webster explains lesbains as "[ from the reputed homosexual band associated with Sappho of Lesbos ] : of or relating to homosexuality between females".
I feel what I feel, and don't care what labels other paste onto my feelings!
I think the fact that you have this extremely rare physical intersex condition makes you one of the rarest of the rare. Your orientation could lie anywhere.
Intersex people are born with any of several variations in sex characteristics including chromosomes, gonads, sex hormones, or genitals that, according to the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, "do not fit the typical definitions for male or female bodies". Wikipedia
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I have no idea if I'm intersex or not and frankly I don't care. I am me. In my mind I am female. I am not going to use the modifiers cis or trans because I feel like this is a means to make trans people second class in their identity. My being female isn't a choice or assumed. I had to work and struggle to shape myself through sheer will to reflect me and the implication that I'm not real or in some way a caricature is very hurtful.
This topic was a lot better before it got derailed.
I personally look at SRS as the birthday and HRT I guess could be a metaphorical conception date maybe? :)
Locked for a while