I know a lot of you..will know this band. I'm hesitant to say, because I think it's absolutely AMAZING there's a f2m in it, and NOBODY on the outside seems to know. My gf is really good friends with a another guy that used to play with them, and she just told me not too long ago, one of them is a f2m. I don't want to put it out there, for the simple fact, it's obvious he doesn't want his personal biz out there like that..but if anyone knows of any famous bands, singers, etc..go ahead and guess :)
Rule one of fame. You have no personal secrets.
Rule two. Everyone will know, sooner or later.
The All-American Rejects? I only guess this based on the name of this topic.
Quoteit's obvious he doesn't want his personal biz out there like that
So then why are you dangling the carrot?
I seem to remember you like to date women and not tell them you're trans. I hope to god someone starts outing you to every girl you meet.
it's obvious he doesn't want his personal biz out there like that
Sure picked the wrong business then eh? Should have been a plumber or a janitor then. Moreover, they can't be that famous, or people would know. Some marginal player in a marginal band (and All-American Rejects would count, there already doing the VHS "What ever happened to..." about them, they peaked two years ago, and now are stuck doing MTVs Spring Break shows).
Absolutely. But people in the trans community shouldn't be outing other trans people who clearly have taken measures to not be out. First rule of fight club, and all.
But people in the trans community shouldn't be outing other trans people who clearly have taken measures to not be out
That's not universally agreed to. I wouldn't do it, but I understand the arguments of those who would.
And besides, if you want to keep a secret, don't have sex with your fans.
Quote
That's not universally agreed to. I wouldn't do it, but I understand the arguments of those who would.
Clearly not by OP and not for what I've seen of the TG people. the TS crowd seems to get it, though.
The Cliks are good and have an FTM singer...
"Eyes in the Back of My Head" by The Cliks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVcvdXJN5no#lq-lq2-hq)
Oh, but everyone knows that about The Cliks. :D Pretty sure the other members of the group are somewhere in the LGBTA spectrum, too.
I've always wondered whether Ken Burns was intersex or trans. He has particular characteristics that suggest that he is, but I've never talked to anyone else who has thought so.
I mean, it's not just stuff like his hands, his voice, his facial features, and his voice. His middle name is Lauren--I think that name can go both ways, but it's usually a woman's name. And, of course, he has facial hair, which a lot of transmen do.
I know, pretty flimsy. But does anyone else ever wonder?
While The Clicks might have a trans following, they still have not really broken out past playing roller rinks for skating parties and some small NYC bars. They are still more of a U-Tube deal then a real rock recording/touring act.
Regardless of who it might be, I don't think it's tactful to be outing people.
Quote from: Asher on May 02, 2009, 05:30:50 PM
Regardless of who it might be, I don't think it's tactful to be outing people.
Even though on this very forum I'm speculating about someone, I agree with you. I don't think it's cool to out someone you
know is trans. That decision can significantly change the outed person's life.
Even if outing someone doesn't cause problems, I still can't agree with it. For instance, my partner outed me to a family member a few months ago while I was agonizing over exactly how to come out to that person myself. I understand why he did it, but I feel that it was not my partner's decision to make. The fact that everything came out all right in the end has nothing to do with it; I'm still bothered by the event because I feel that unless I say otherwise, the only one who has the right to out me is me.
I get bothered when people out me. It hasn't made an actual difference that I can tell to how people treat me, but it seems to me that it's my information to divulge or not. Or at least, I'd like to have a friggin clue whether the person I'm talking to knows or not. I'm not ashamed of my past at all. In fact, I'll joke about it with friends who I know know. But I don't want to look like I'm lying to someone when I'm just trying to make life easier for myself in a casual conversation.
As far as outing others, I figure if they're doing something hurtful or hypocritical, let's go at 'er. Rent a plane with a banner, put it on the internet, spray paint it on buildings. Roy Cohn was enough of a lesson in how harmful the closet can be. But if someone's living life peacefully, I don't think it's right, personally. Tekla's right that you'd have to be an idiot to choose a public profession and not expect it's gonna come out, but still, I wouldn't be the one to bring it out.
Dennis
Quote from: tekla on May 02, 2009, 02:44:11 PM
While The Clicks might have a trans following, they still have not really broken out past playing roller rinks for skating parties and some small NYC bars. They are still more of a U-Tube deal then a real rock recording/touring act.
Not really. Logo has paid them a lot of attention, and Logo has a reasonably large audience. It's how I heard of them. You're wrong about the All-American Rejects, too. They just came out with a new single a few weeks ago and it's been all over MTV and the radio, at least here on the East Coast.
Quote from: Dennis on May 03, 2009, 02:43:07 AMAs far as outing others, I figure if they're doing something hurtful or hypocritical, let's go at 'er. Rent a plane with a banner, put it on the internet, spray paint it on buildings. Roy Cohn was enough of a lesson in how harmful the closet can be. But if someone's living life peacefully, I don't think it's right, personally. Tekla's right that you'd have to be an idiot to choose a public profession and not expect it's gonna come out, but still, I wouldn't be the one to bring it out.
That's about how I feel about it as well.
A person can easily just decline comment or deflect it, there is no need to overdo it. Besides, why leave yourself open to worse criticism if/when you are outed.
Quote from: Asher on May 02, 2009, 05:30:50 PM
Regardless of who it might be, I don't think it's tactful to be outing people.
QFT
And you'd be surprised with the cohesiveness of the community. I knew Lance Bass was gay long before he came out, but the gay community didn't spread it outside the community... because he asked! He came out on his own doing. Sure, people knew... but the public as a whole didn't.
I hate to see anyone even try to guess the band. Who cares? If he wants to come out, he will. If not, let's not talk about it. This is all very elementary. And it's sad when people assume because they choose a career in front of the public that they somehow aren't entitled to any privacy? I guess it must be hard. To have a talent and work hard at it, it gets you in front of everyone and suddenly you aren't entitled to your privacy. You were just doing what you loved...
You were just doing what you loved...
Nah, you can do that for free at home, when you are doing it for a public, and for money, your doing it to be loved, and that's a very different game.
You beg, borrow, steal, pimp and bribe for coverage, because you live and die on coverage, the downside is, you can never dictate what the coverage is. And band X has a secret transgender is much better copy then band X just wrote a new song using a D, Amin, E progression.
There are huge trade offs in that quest for fortune and fame, privacy is just one of them.
I dunno but I have my bets that Brett Dennen is a ftm, or just didn't have a very eventful puberty... (not to rag on him but he does look and sound really young)
Brett Dennen - Ain't No Reason (Official Single Video) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amwVyRH2B8A#lq-lq2-hq)
Quote from: lacitychick21 on May 03, 2009, 03:41:53 PMI knew Lance Bass was gay long before he came out, but the gay community didn't spread it outside the community... because he asked! He came out on his own doing. Sure, people knew... but the public as a whole didn't.
I think everyone pretty much knew. Hell, the public knew before George Michael knew he himself was.
Quote from: tekla on May 02, 2009, 11:33:29 AM
Rule one of fame. You have no personal secrets.
Rule two. Everyone will know, sooner or later.
True.
Post Merge: May 13, 2009, 05:03:04 AM
Quote from: Mister on May 02, 2009, 12:34:45 PM
So then why are you dangling the carrot?
I seem to remember you like to date women and not tell them you're trans. I hope to god someone starts outing you to every girl you meet.
Personally, I am absolutely INTRIGUED this guy has been in the music business for a couple years now, and NOBODY knows, but his band mates, and a few girls who haven't said a word. Because he grew up in same state I did, and it didn't take long for my story to get out....
which leads me to your next statement. If you read more clearly, me not being 100% honest about myself with girls I was involved with, is part of my PAST , mind you, this dates back to the age of 12, when I had no clue what TRANS meant...but good point Mister, you're the wikipedia for this community! fool. And for the lather, my past 3 relationships (4 years) they've all known, including my girl now...but good ups on wishing negatives. I've been there, done that, lived through it...and could do it all again.
That and...most the girls that I'm "outed" to out here, want it even more.........so like you said, I hope someone starts hating too!
For everyone else- I started this post, cuz I really do find it amazing a f2m has made a music career as himself, and not had to deal with society's outbursts. I'm not one to out anyone on their gender/sexual preference..maybe I shouldn't of said anything..but frankly it excited the F*** out of me. Mister you can eat nuts.
I don't understand what gives you this sense of entitlement. If someone is not out, DO NOT OUT THEM. Ever. It's not negotiable b/c they're in the music biz and you get to name drop. If it eventually comes out, he'll have to deal with it... but his business shouldn't be spread around, especially by trans people.
You live and die by coverage, and you can't dictate what it is. Still, given that, the biz is full of minor stars, who never really get covered, and unless he makes it huge, like Tom Petty huge, no one is going to care.
In the industry, we all have secrets. And 'what happens at the show stays at the show, what happens on tour stays on the tour' and all that. So I don't talk about the Christian groups whose dressing rooms reeks of good pot, or the heavy metal band that's just a bunch of geeks in scary leather - I figure its all an illusion anyway.
Quote from: Mister on May 13, 2009, 08:08:57 AM
I don't understand what gives you this sense of entitlement. If someone is not out, DO NOT OUT THEM. Ever. It's not negotiable b/c they're in the music biz and you get to name drop. If it eventually comes out, he'll have to deal with it... but his business shouldn't be spread around, especially by trans people.
I actually agree with Mister, I wouldn't want to be outed either.
Jay
Quote from: tekla on May 13, 2009, 12:16:27 PM
You live and die by coverage, and you can't dictate what it is. Still, given that, the biz is full of minor stars, who never really get covered, and unless he makes it huge, like Tom Petty huge, no one is going to care.
In the industry, we all have secrets. And 'what happens at the show stays at the show, what happens on tour stays on the tour' and all that. So I don't talk about the Christian groups whose dressing rooms reeks of good pot, or the heavy metal band that's just a bunch of geeks in scary leather - I figure its all an illusion anyway.
i completely agree with you. hell, you and i seem to have pretty similar (if not identical) professions and i sure as hell kept my mouth shut about what i saw and heard on the road.
this situation is different. this isn't some random person gossiping about some random half rate artist-- this is a member of a marginalized community who seems to think it's fun to breech the confidentiality, endanger the safety and livelihood of someone in the same community he personally knows. that's nothing but screwed up and disrespectful.
I can think of a lot of times when outing someone would be the work of the saints and angels. I see PBS just killed the special about the 'secret' gay Republicans who voted against gay rights, but still indulged in private, and that sucks, in many ways.
hell, you and i seem to have pretty similar (if not identical) professions
I kinda doubt that, you would not last 10 minutes 'round these parts. The first time you started in on telling the other guys and girls about how they could speak, what words you can use, or what's 'right' and 'wrong' you'd most likely have an accident.
I kinda doubt that, you would not last 10 minutes 'round these parts. The first time you started in on telling the other guys and girls about how they could speak, what words you can use, or what's 'right' and 'wrong' you'd most likely have an accident.
Don't. I'm not one who believes in language policing, but I do believe in universal enforcement.
As for this situation, I leave my medical information to my doctor and am still appalled and disgusted by folks who feel it's their right to speak on behalf of those who choose to do the same.
We don't believe in anything that is universal. That's just silly. There are people who work here for minimum wage for a few, like 4 hours a show, while we're on the clock at full rates for 14-18 per show. By the end of night we're earning more per hour than the other people are for their shift. They have to pay for a bag of chips (no employee discount) while we're getting fed luxury dinners and then napping. People in the dressing rooms are doing drugs that on the street above them other people are getting arrested for. I let some people get away with stuff that I send other people home for. Depends on a lot of things, including how much I like you.
Welcome to reality.
There is no universal nothing.
Quote from: tekla on May 13, 2009, 12:59:54 PM
Welcome to reality.
There is no universal nothing.
I didn't mean in the world of work. Nevermind.... just take my word for it-- i'm tame on these boards and i'm sure you don't truly let yourself go here either.
Quote from: tekla on May 13, 2009, 12:42:49 PM
I can think of a lot of times when outing someone would be the work of the saints and angels. I see PBS just killed the special about the 'secret' gay Republicans who voted against gay rights, but still indulged in private, and that sucks, in many ways.
Are you kidding me? The work of SAINTS? I wonder what kind of saints you pray to.
Outing someone who does not want to be outed is NEVER a good thing. NEVER. This is why: it's none of your g*dd*mn business. By outing someone who DOES NOT WANT TO BE OUTED, you are very probably ruining his/her work life and possibly financial well-being, his/her social life, and his/her right to privacy. YOU are the indulger; YOU are indulging in whatever personal reason you have to out this person, with no thought for his/her well-being. You do NOT know what's best for someone - that's the ******* MOTTO of this board, that everyone has to make his or her choices for himself/herself. Do you want to know why gay Republicans don't disclose? Because they believe in other causes that Republicans support, and they know that gay Republicans aren't widely accepted. It's more important to them to stand up for their other beliefs than to proclaim their sexuality for the world to hear. Is this so wrong in your book? Must all other causes be booted to the street so that someone can let the entire world know who they want to have sex with - or in our cases, what's between our legs? Is this cause so urgent that it gives YOU, someone who has NO IDEA what reasons they have to not disclose, someone who has NO RIGHT to meddle in their public and personal business, the right to clearly go against their wishes and by outing them, throw them to the wolves?
Every single person here who believes that he/she has the right to out other people against their wishes sickens me. You are self-indulgent and self-righteous, and I hope that if the day ever comes when someone displays your personal information for the world to see without your consent, you're too happy to breathe.
I've never found it a particular problem when politicians and public figures who make legislation to repress particular minority populations are "outed" against their wishes.
If John Doe wants to support Pub causes and doesn't want his sexuality revealed and doesn't do a lot of rabble-rousing against people of his sexual orientation, then yes, I agree there's no reason to "out" him.
When Bob Bauman was passing legislation that would allow gay males & lesbians to be harrassed and discriminated against without recourse then I'm all for his being "outed."
It's one thing to do no relative harm, it's another to be conducting a witch-hunt against a group you're a "hidden" member of.
The great thing about the Pubs lately is that such ordure has seen fit to be arrested for their peccadillos in public toilets. I spoz one could say they've "outed" themselves.
Nichole
Two words: Roy Cohen
But if you want three more, try these: Reverend Ted Haggard.
While off the subject and trying to think of a mature way to state my views Nicole and Tekla posted, so all I have to say is I second their comments and I'll leave it at that.
Myles
Whilst I too, ultimately don't agree with outing someone without their permission... I think Joeys main reason for this post was because he was just so excited about the fact that an FtM is in such an 'apparently' big well-known group. Like he said in his last post.
Geeze, I'D be excited too if I found something like that out, it's just plain cool to know that... and if one day he comes out publicly, I hope that it turns out alright for him. I'd imagine, depending on their level of success, he could do great things for ftm visibility and acceptance.
PS: I agree that those gay republicans should be outed when they're doing so much damage to gay rights! >_<