I thought that I wouldn't, because I like dicks, but I think I have realized that transguys are just as man as cis men. Dick isn't that important, cause I would probably never have traditional sex anyway. Plus, I shouldn't think this way towards people, because I don't want them to think of me that way. Like there is a gay guy who likes me now, but doesn't want to do anything because girl parts gross him out.
Where do you meet transguys anyway? Like, to date? I think it would be awesome to date someone who was going through the same thing you were.
Post-transition, post-top-surgery, and preferably without any strange clitoral growth, yeah. I'll be honest, I think the FtM body [like I just described] is the perfect body. No strange things sticking out in strange places. Just the person, as minimalist as possible.
Yeah absolutely. I don't have 'traditional' sex either and anal sex is best in moderation :laugh: FtMs are brilliant, I would love to date one too. I am attracted to male identified people, so even a non op FtM would be OK as far as I'm concerned!
I'd date you...shame there's a big ocean in the way (and I'm pre-T) ;)
Quote from: Kvall on December 30, 2009, 05:58:17 PM
I like cis men and trans men, so if I were single, another FTM would be fine by me. I'd prefer if he were post chest surgery, though.
I would prefer that too
Yes Tmen I am attracted to but I have to say I'm very cock addicted. I'm not looking for anyone so it's not something that matters. I'm not attracted to girly things at all so Trans guys are nice in that respect.
I'm pansexual...
Sex/Gender is not important.
And I've had "Play Time" with a "still in the closet to most ppl" ftm before.. so yes.
Quote from: Sameth on December 30, 2009, 04:02:07 PM
... preferably without any strange clitoral growth....
If you go after an FTM, that's part of the "package" :laugh:
As for myself, someone being an FTM wouldn't be a dealbreaker. Though I wouldn't specifically chase an FTM for their being trans. I've met some I like, some I wouldn't go near - just like any other group of people.
Where to meet them? There are trans dating sites around (but they say regarding dating on the internet - "the odds are good, but the goods are odd").
You could also go to places you think you'll find transmen - though going to support groups to try to pick up is kinda sleezy :laugh:.
Nah. A pre-T or pre-op might have the stuff I'm attracted to but to me they're not girls, and it just because you have the junk doesn't mean I'm going to automatically get in your pants either.
I might, it really depends on the person. FTM, MTF, cis-male, cis-female, gay, straight, bi...doesn't matter to me. Guess that makes me a pansexual too.
I certainly wouldn't mind it. Not going to chase an FTM just because he is though. I guess I don't know for sure though, since I haven't really been in the situation before. It really would depend on the person.
An FTM would certainly not think of me as freaky because he's in the same boat. And there wouldn't be any uncomfortable "you're not putting that there!"
As for where to meet them, I have no idea.
God, I wish wish wish I could want to date a transguy. I know a couple of gay transguys who found each other. I envy them.
But "girl parts" really do gross me out. (I'm glad I don't have to look at mine. In fact, I wear a packer 23.5 hours a day now, and the contours just seem to be so right. The bulges fit my mental body map.)
Most FTMs have not had bottom surgery. I'm not sure I could be with an FTM even if he had a meta or phallo...I am in love with "born that way" penises--the way they look, the way they feel, the way they smell and taste, the way they respond. I don't know much about how the manufactured parts function in comparison.
I also like cismale bodies--the proportions are usually different from those of most FTMs.
I'm trying to be open-minded. I don't know if any gay cismale will ever accept me the way I am, and I don't know if I will ever be able to get bottom surgery.
Psychologically, I used to wonder if FTMs lacked that little "edge" that I find so attractive in cisgender men. I've come to the conclusion that some FTMs have that and some don't. So it's possible that I could fall in love with an FTM and figure out a way to be sexual with him, at least if he's had bottom surgery. If he hasn't...I don't think I could get used to that.
I said that I like penises that are "born that way," but that is actually a bit untrue. I can't deal with uncircumcised penises. Yet I think that circumcision is barbaric and unnecessary. I oppose inflicting that on infants.
Bundle of contradictions, that's me. ::)
P.S. Have you considered FTM social sites or Craigslist? I can't vouch for either one...
Post Merge: December 30, 2009, 07:32:08 PM
Quote from: Teknoir on December 30, 2009, 06:28:27 PM
Where to meet them? There are trans dating sites around (but they say regarding dating on the internet - "the odds are good, but the goods are odd").
That's a good one...I've never heard it before. :laugh:
Quote from: Arch on December 30, 2009, 07:29:25 PM
I said that I like penises that are "born that way," but that is actually a bit untrue. I can't deal with uncircumcised penises. Yet I think that circumcision is barbaric and unnecessary. I oppose inflicting that on infants.
I've heard that opinion quite a few times from people in the good ol' USA. Is circumcision really common over there or something?
I can't deal with uncircumcised penises. Yet I think that circumcision is barbaric and unnecessary. I oppose inflicting that on infants.
Please, pick one or the other and stick with it, no one can do both.
< Edit: Remove the offensive elements of the post directed at quoted poster. >
do i like other FTMs sexually? yes. i dated a trans guy for about 10 months. (broke up a while back) i like just about any body configuration sexually. but gender wise, i usually lean towards the masculine end. i wouldnt ever rule out anyone based on body configuration or gender identity.
Quote from: Teknoir on December 30, 2009, 06:28:27 PM
As for myself, someone being an FTM wouldn't be a dealbreaker. Though I wouldn't specifically chase an FTM for their being trans. I've met some I like, some I wouldn't go near - just like any other group of people.
^This^
I guess I'm pansexual-ish... but I tend to be attracted to female bodies more than male bodies. Personality-wise I tend to be more attracted to people who are somewhere on the scale between "male" and "middle of the road". I'm not all that into girly girls emotionally, but I love their bodies... (Wow, I'm shallow). The thing is, even though emotionally I like guys/genderqueer/androgyne/masculine women, and I wish I could say that the inside is more important than the outside, honestly they're about even. Cuz I don't tend to sleep with people I can't at least have the potential to fall for, and I can't fall for someone I'm not also physically attracted to.
And if I dated a transguy, yeah he'd have a biologically female body, but he probably wouldn't want me to see it that way and enjoy it that way. Like... I really like boobs (a LOT), and most transguys wouldn't be cool with me treating their moobs like boobs. Understandably, cuz I don't like it either, but therein lies the rub.
So, I somehow need to find a non-op transguy who is totally cool with his biologically-female body and likes that I like it, but is still more androgynous-to-male personality-wise, AND of course he has to like what I have to offer too (i.e. he needs to be into guys at least enough to accept me as one, and okay enough with female parts to not get too squicky over what I currently have, but not so into female parts that he can't treat my bio-bits as their male equivalent, etc etc etc...). Or some shade of genderless/genderqueer/other person who has all those traits.
Geez, I'm difficult. :P
Don't know, never met one.
I've dated cismen, ciswomen and now with a MtF. I'd be interested in dating a FtM if I ever got the chance. Would I like FtM's sexually though is something I haven't really thought about
nope can't say I could ever see myself being attracted to an FTM
I can't see myself being attracted to any sort of man though.
I'm attracted to girls, and typically quite feminine girls at that. Masculinity is not my cup of tea.
Quote from: tekla on December 30, 2009, 08:46:46 PMJust like a woman.
Please, pick one or the other and stick with it, no one can do both.
Ouch. That came across as a little bit misogynistic.
In any case, you (generic "you") actually can get circumcision done at a later point in life. I'm hoping that won't get this thread too far off-topic, just thought I'd throw that in there.
To contribute to the main point of the thread...
Most likely not. Not because of the trans thing, but because of the man thing. I'm pretty much straight. I'm not close-minded because of it, just realistic about the fact that I am almost exclusively attracted to women. I wouldn't rule out anyone I really connected with solely based on gender identity or expression, or the plumbing down below. It's just not too likely to happen, in my experience.
Post Merge: December 31, 2009, 02:18:31 AM
Quote from: NES_junkie_James on December 31, 2009, 12:29:39 AMAnd if I dated a transguy, yeah he'd have a biologically female body, but he probably wouldn't want me to see it that way and enjoy it that way. Like... I really like boobs (a LOT), and most transguys wouldn't be cool with me treating their moobs like boobs. Understandably, cuz I don't like it either, but therein lies the rub.
So, I somehow need to find a non-op transguy who is totally cool with his biologically-female body and likes that I like it, but is still more androgynous-to-male personality-wise, AND of course he has to like what I have to offer too (i.e. he needs to be into guys at least enough to accept me as one, and okay enough with female parts to not get too squicky over what I currently have, but not so into female parts that he can't treat my bio-bits as their male equivalent, etc etc etc...). Or some shade of genderless/genderqueer/other person who has all those traits.
Geez, I'm difficult. :P
Lol. Perhaps. But you're also very honest about it all. :)
Quote from: tekla on December 30, 2009, 08:46:46 PM
I can't deal with uncircumcised penises. Yet I think that circumcision is barbaric and unnecessary. I oppose inflicting that on infants.
Just like a woman.
Please, pick one or the other and stick with it, no one can do both.
Tekla, if you had been sexually molested as a little kid by a guy with an uncut dick, you might also feel a little conflicted about them. And I've talked to gay men who oppose circumcision but much prefer to have sex with uncut guys. I guess they're just like women too, eh?
Quote from: Arch on December 31, 2009, 02:48:59 AM
Tekla, if you had been sexually molested as a little kid by a guy with an uncut dick, you might also feel a little conflicted about them. And I've talked to gay men who oppose circumcision but much prefer to have sex with uncut guys. I guess they're just like women too, eh?
While I agree with the last portion of your post, the first half... I don't really see it as being a valid point with all du respect.
Quote from: Lachlann on December 31, 2009, 03:14:32 AM
While I agree with the last portion of your post, the first half... I don't really see it as being a valid point with all du respect.
Its perfectly valid.
Some people, years later, cannot stand to (or have a very negative reaction when they) hear a song that was being played during a traumatic experience, (aka molestation rape ect.) hear similar phrases as those used, or even drink the flavor of cool-aid they were served. The list goes on, but senses and memory are very closely connected.
If the sight of an uncut dick puts you back in the place you were in (mentally) during said molestation it is perfectly valid that you would strongly dislike them. At the same time you can still be able to objectively look at the issue and say "this is wrong that we do this"
not sure what wouldn't be valid about that.
----------
Also I have to say that to point a finger at anyone on this forum[where we come to escape being seen as women] and say "just like a woman" is kind of verging on cruel...
very unnecessary.
Quote from: GnomeKid on December 31, 2009, 11:36:01 AM
Also I have to say that to point a finger at anyone on this forum[where we come to escape being seen as women] and say "just like a woman" is kind of verging on cruel...
very unnecessary.
agreed
Quote from: GnomeKid on December 31, 2009, 11:36:01 AM
Its perfectly valid.
Some people, years later, cannot stand to (or have a very negative reaction when they) hear a song that was being played during a traumatic experience, (aka molestation rape ect.) hear similar phrases as those used, or even drink the flavor of cool-aid they were served. The list goes on, but senses and memory are very closely connected.
Agreed. I still hate the smell of PineSol.
And:
Quote from: GnomeKid on December 31, 2009, 11:36:01 AM
Its perfectly valid.
Also I have to say that to point a finger at anyone on this forum[where we come to escape being seen as women] and say "just like a woman" is kind of verging on cruel...
very unnecessary.
^This^
Quote from: GnomeKid on December 31, 2009, 11:36:01 AM
Its perfectly valid.
Some people, years later, cannot stand to (or have a very negative reaction when they) hear a song that was being played during a traumatic experience, (aka molestation rape ect.) hear similar phrases as those used, or even drink the flavor of cool-aid they were served. The list goes on, but senses and memory are very closely connected.
If the sight of an uncut dick puts you back in the place you were in (mentally) during said molestation it is perfectly valid that you would strongly dislike them. At the same time you can still be able to objectively look at the issue and say "this is wrong that we do this"
not sure what wouldn't be valid about that.
----------
Also I have to say that to point a finger at anyone on this forum[where we come to escape being seen as women] and say "just like a woman" is kind of verging on cruel...
very unnecessary.
*shrug* Maybe, it just hit a little too close when I heard someone try to claim they were a Nazi because a black person raped them. It just doesn't make sense with me.
Quote from: Lachlann on December 31, 2009, 12:30:10 PM
*shrug* Maybe, it just hit a little too close when I heard someone try to claim they were a Nazi because a black person raped them. It just doesn't make sense with me.
Just because some a$$hats use their hurt to cause hurt to others does NOT preclude people who have been hurt from being wary of future pain and/or flashbacks. Arch's dislike of uncut schlongs doesn't hurt anyone, and therefore it's completely valid. The situation where you heard of someone going all Nazi because of their experiences is indeed hurtful to others, and therefore is not a valid expression of their pain. Victimizing someone is never okay.
Quote from: NES_junkie_James on December 31, 2009, 12:34:50 PM
Just because some a$$hats use their hurt to cause hurt to others does NOT preclude people who have been hurt from being wary of future pain and/or flashbacks. Arch's dislike of uncut schlongs doesn't hurt anyone, and therefore it's completely valid. The situation where you heard of someone going all Nazi because of their experiences is indeed hurtful to others, and therefore is not a valid expression of their pain. Victimizing someone is never okay.
And then I'd bring up the point that I also think it's silly for people to dislike names because their bully or whatnot was named that, too. It's just how I feel about it, I'm not attacking Arch either I'm just stating my opinion on the matter. I don't think that sort of thing should be connected. It was the moron who did it, not what was related and that's all I'll say.
I'm not about to tell people how they should feel about something either.
Quote from: Arch on December 31, 2009, 02:48:59 AM
Tekla, if you had been sexually molested as a little kid by a guy with an uncut dick, you might also feel a little conflicted about them.
I'm with Lachlann here that this just doesn't make too much sense to me. Circumcision is unnatural.
What if you were molested with a normal hand? Would you only want to shake hands with people with missing fingers?
Anyway, I don't think the poster was referring to trauma, just his personal preference.
Quote from: SilverFang on December 31, 2009, 04:21:04 PM
What if you were molested with a normal hand? Would you only want to shake hands with people with missing fingers?
I don't know. I can say that in such a scenario, I would have seen many hands in my lifetime and probably wouldn't build up any special associations with them even if a regular five-digit hand had hurt me.
My discomfort is very visceral. I don't expect it to be logical. But I'll explain as best I can.
I don't have a problem with seeing uncut penises. My experience was tactile. I was seven and had never seen
any penis before. I was very scared and very uncomfortable and very ashamed. Among other things, he made me give him a hand job. I have a lasting tactile memory of how it felt.
Years later, at a swing party, I met a guy with an uncut penis. He was very proud of it. We hooked up. He wanted me to jerk him off. As an adult, I had given hand jobs before, but only to uncircumcised men. I didn't realize it beforehand, but uncut feels very different from cut. So I started to jack him off, and it felt nauseatingly familiar. My stomach clenched up, and I wanted to vomit. I began to feel sick and panicky. I felt a sense of dread. I struggled not to cry. I just wanted to get out of there. I could not go on, so I told him I had to stop.
At that point in my life, I only had intermittent memories of the molestation, so I didn't put it all together until later.
This is the first time I have talked about the circumcision issue except one brief discussion with a trusted trans man. My therapist doesn't know, although he knows I was molested. Even now, I start shaking just thinking about it...I flash back to that day when I was seven, and it's very scary and very hard. I have trouble breathing. Despite the T, I start to cry because I can't help it. I feel like a little kid again, being hurt by that guy. It's terrifying.
This is a big step for me to talk about it here, so please be kind. You don't have to understand it, just accept it for what it is.
Sorry to hijack the thread, but I had to get this out.
Quote from: Arch on December 31, 2009, 04:44:13 PMMy discomfort is very visceral. I don't expect it to be logical.
I understand some. I have an odd- yet paralyzing- phobia that no one, including myself, can understand where I got it from. It doesn't deal with any kind of molestation or even human interaction. It's odd, uncommon and makes no sense why I have it. Before anybody asks- no, I'm not revealing it.
Quote from: Arch on December 31, 2009, 04:44:13 PM
This is a big step for me to talk about it here, so please be kind. You don't have to understand it, just accept it for what it is.
Sorry to hijack the thread, but I had to get this out.
I can't speak for others but I certainly understand and respect you for talking about this. Its a difficult thing to have to explain I'm sure and I know everyone here has had experience trying to explain difficult stuff to people. So, respect man :)
Oh my server.
I'm so sorry this thread has been taken in a direction that caused you to relive such horrible memories, Arch.
I can't begin to imagine what surviving an atrocity like that would feel like.
I'm pansexual - I find FtMs attractive, as well as MtFs, androgynes, genderqueers, any other part of the trans* spectrum, and cispeople.
Quote from: Arch on December 31, 2009, 04:44:13 PM
This is a big step for me to talk about it here, so please be kind. You don't have to understand it, just accept it for what it is.
Sorry to hijack the thread, but I had to get this out.
I don't think anyone has any problem with it. It's too bad. Nobody really deserves to have to deal with that kind of thing and I'm certainly glad I didn't offend you or anything.
I can't really relate, all I've got is an irrational fear of dogs. Never been bitten or anything, I just panic and run from any loose dogs (even chihuahuas.) I'm working on it.
Oh, and as for the point about seeing many hands, I guess you're right.
Elijah your threads always deliver the goods. :laugh:
Guys, guys, guys!
It's about love, not plumbing!
I am straight so I only like women..
But to date.. I wouldn't have a clue haven't met or "dated" a woman for 1 year and 5 months not that anyone is counting... :-\
Jay
I used to not like FTMs because of the female body thing, but I now care more about if somewhat identifies as male than if their body is male. I think I'm pansexual though.
I've only ever been into women, but I find a lot of FtM's attractive, and would possibly consider dating one if the opportunity arose. I feel bad about that though, since FtM's are guys and I most likely wouldn't date a bio guy, and I can't explain why I feel the way I do
Quote from: Chamillion on January 01, 2010, 05:57:21 PM
I've only ever been into women, but I find a lot of FtM's attractive, and would possibly consider dating one if the opportunity arose. I feel bad about that though, since FtM's are guys and I most likely wouldn't date a bio guy, and I can't explain why I feel the way I do
I'm not into bio guys at all, I only like women. I find some FTMs attractive, the more feminine ones, and I don't know how any of them would like that. I guess if the situation presents itself, I'll give it a try if it looks like it will be fun.
I am a straight MTF and have found some FTM's on youtube to be really attractive. I don't like the feminine one's though, i want a man's man. :D
Quote from: ftmshubbie on January 01, 2010, 08:30:13 AM
Guys, guys, guys!
It's about love, not plumbing!
On the surface, your absolutely right. In the real world, I wish it actually worked that way. I've known several people who I got along great with, and would say I loved, but never really felt any sexual attraction to. I've also had great sex and been physically attracted to someone, but the emotional connection was never there.
So I would revise that to say, It's about love, and thats the most important, and if you meet the right person, the plumbing doesn't matter, except when it does. You would think that being pan-sexual would make the whole process easier...
It's funny... and I honestly shouldn't even be posting this, but I never thought being with an ftm would be the same as being with a bio-guy. Yeah... I was wrong. I decided to end my string of celibacy, and just wanted a fling with a random guy. After much deliberation (because I'm a hypochondriac), I decided to sleep with this ftm guy I met. He had been on T as long as I have, but hadn't had even top surgery, and I was sure I'd see him as a chick, or it wouldn't be like being with a guy, but... I was totally wrong. Despite the breasts, he was very much a guy, and I couldn't really tell the difference. If I couldn't... well, I suppose that bodes well for other folks. And hey, my girlfriend, who's never been with anyone before but bio-guys, says I'm better than any guy she's ever been with... hence, she can tell the difference, but in a very good way.
SD
Honestly, no.
I like girls too much.
I don't think I could be with anyone who identified as male.
That being said, being with an mtf wouldn't bother me.
Hey, I've seen your videos before!
Anyways, back onto the subject at hand..
Yeah, definitely.
It would be great because they would understand what you're going through and you could openly discuss it with them without things being uncomfortable. It's something that I would have in common with them.
He would have to have been on T long enough to look absolutely male. Adult male. But other than that stipulation, I don't see why not. I prefer guy parts to girl parts, but by the time I'm ready to actually delve into a guy's pants, I'm likely already pretty smitten. At that point, I can work with whatever he's got. It's really no different than finding out that your guy is hung smaller than you might prefer. It may not be ideal, but it's not a deal breaker.
One of the guys in my gay men's discussion group (I'm not out as trans to any of them) found out that girl parts (below the waist) give me the heebie-jeebies. So one night we were all out having coffee after the meeting, and he sat across from me and said, "Vagina! Vagina! Vagina!" I rolled my eyes and squirmed internally. Then we were walking to our respective cars (mine is an old Volvo) and he said, "Oh, are you going home in your vulva?" "No," I replied, caressing the driver's side door. "I'm stroking it."
That's when thought, "Gee, at least I'm getting more comfortable with the nomenclature..."
Any progress is good progress. But I still don't want to date a pre/non-bottom-surgery FTM! Not yet...