I just got done watching someone on youtube going on about acceptance and stealth. She seem to make some good points but she also seemed to want the holy grail. She said that she was tired of being a known as a girl with an * at the end and just wanted to be a regular girl. She is tired of having to defend herself. She wants to be known as just a genetic girl and doesn't understand why she cannot. She said she does not want to be "accepted". We all want that for ourselves. While I understand her pain, isn't it a bit unrealistic to want or even aspect to gain the holy grail of all TG world? We all have things we wish we didn't have to do. Once again I will use my handicapped card. Obviously I wish I could just be a person without having to be known as the "retard" by strangers and whatever else but I can never achieve this and know it. Can someone get the holy grail or am I correct in thinking that this person is striving for something that can never be?
Quote from: lauren3332 on January 06, 2010, 08:27:23 AM
I just got done watching someone on youtube going on about acceptance and stealth. She seem to make some good points but she also seemed to want the holy grail. She said that she was tired of being a known as a girl with an * at the end and just wanted to be a regular girl. She is tired of having to defend herself. She wants to be known as just a genetic girl and doesn't understand why she cannot. She said she does not want to be "accepted". We all want that for ourselves. While I understand her pain, isn't it a bit unrealistic to want or even aspect to gain the holy grail of all TG world? We all have things we wish we didn't have to do. Once again I will use my handicapped card. Obviously I wish I could just be a person without having to be known as the "retard" by strangers and whatever else but I can never achieve this and know it. Can someone get the holy grail or am I correct in thinking that this person is striving for something that can never be?
I thought that was the main objective of a gender change.....to be perceived as a female? why is she unrealisic? and what did she look like to make you think that she was being unrealistic?
There are so many factors working against most trans people that impede the goal of being their identified gender in all aspects of life. First off, your parents know your birth gender. And there's siblings and extended family. Depending how long you lived in your birth gender, those numbers increase when it comes to friends, school classmates and coworkers. Add to that, records are better kept than ever. Achieving the same gender identification level as a genetic person of your identified gender is practically impossible, if not completely impossible.
If you look at the odds, the energies spent on trying to achieve the nearly impossible would be better spent working on achieving social acceptance to the point there is no perceived social difference.
Last night I was at a meeting of a group dedicated to helping make some of those changes. We were giving long term goals and one person said, "For groups like this to become no longer necessary." In other words, work to make the social changes so we no longer need to fight for equality, acceptance and recognition. That may seem a pretty lofty goal but it's a lot better than working your entire life to "disappear" into society.
We spend so much time wondering if we passed, worrying if there are records out there that will out us, working to perfect our gender presentation, that we miss the big picture - Acceptance.
It's a confusing mess of madness all that.
The more I look at the trans-search for the "holy grail" (as you put it) in relation to a woman's search for acceptance in regards to beauty, respect, etc. ... the more I realize it really is a mixed bag.
My therapist really put it best when she brought up the fact that over the course of time there have been numerous "over masculine" women who have shined with a strong since of femininity / sexuality / power that have garnered them respect regardless of what society at that time normally would deem as "normal".
I think trans-women tend to lean on those old stereotypes even more-so than women (for obvious reasons) and thus getting past them and creating a sense of self worth is that much more difficult.
... but once you strip away your trans-identity and see it purely from the perspective of what it means to _really_ be a woman (which of course is as vast as the stars in the sky), it becomes a lot easier to see that the "holy grail" can be any cup you choose. :angel:
Unrealistic or not, that Holy Grail is my only chance.
For me, being "accepted as a transgender woman" is no more an appropriate solution than living as a male. It doesn't address my particular needs or motivations whatsoever.
That doesn't necessarily mean I have to hide my past from everyone. I realize I can't totally erase the facts of my history, but I can erode the relevance of it by just living my life normally and showing my own lack of interest.
The more you fight to "be the same," the more you set yourself apart as being something different.
i think.....
just like in real life there is no holy grail..we are what we are and we have to deal with that all of our lives..it is a handicap and there is no cure..yes it can be wonderful and exciting but it is never ever going to be what we all really want.. to have been born in the gender we need to be.. even stealth is a form of transition ...... the moment we were born with the biology we have we can never fully arrive at the destination we beleive we should have started out from in the first place.....
Quote from: ius2avasasage on January 06, 2010, 05:49:58 PM
but it is never ever going to be what we all really want.. to have been born in the gender we need to be..
I don't think that's a universal motivation. For the vast majority of transgender people, the motivation seems to be to express a
"gender identity" by
"perfecting one's gender presentation."Sure, being born in the "target sex" would make that easier, but I think for them that would be a means to an end, and not the root need driving everything.
And within that goal, being accepted as someone
"presenting as a woman" is probably often adequate, even desirable, as they often seem to enjoy the limelight of being "transgender" - at least when not being persecuted for it.
Me, I'll be chasing that
"need to have been born a girl" insatiable demon for the rest of my life. No
"presentation." No
"gender identity." I just need to have been born female. It's irrational, it's delusional, it's insane to think I can ever achieve it. But IT doesn't care, whatever IT is, it's been stuck in me forever and will never let me go.
Quote from: Marie731 on January 06, 2010, 06:53:22 PMI just need to have been born female. It's irrational, it's delusional, it's insane to think I can ever achieve it. But IT doesn't care, whatever IT is, it's been stuck in me forever and will never let me go.
I don't think it's irrational or delusional to feel that way.
Who knows what is beyond death, and with technology, who knows what will be capable in life! :icon_boogy:
my point exactly..that is why we are transsexual...to have been born in a female or male gender depending on who you are is the holy grail...nothing any doctor or anything you can ever do in your life will change that, ever, you will always know...the only difference between a girl born with a male biology and a girl born with a female biology is one of them knows....and we are the ones who know >:( .... for myself i wish i didn't... its okay but i think it would be nicer to have not known...
I have been pondering this question for a while. We all talk about 'acceptance' by society. We work for it, perfect our 'art' and so forth.
But let's stop a minute and go look in the mirror. Go on, I'll wait .............
Ok, the person you just looked at is a woman, born a girl, raised as a girl ( Albeit, it was more like a boy ), loved as a girl, went to school as a girl. So why do we need to be accepted by society? We are women, regardless of what the others see. Look around. Have you ever seen a woman that was too tall, too heavy, too masculine looking, just too unfeminine?
We all have, everyone has. They may be laugh at but they move on. No one, but us and our potential partner will ever see between our legs. So why do we ramble on about acceptance? Do we wish to be accepted by society or do we just go on with our lives.
Maybe it comes down to just the whole idea of Transpeople being in the world and the society must accept it? We already know it does not. So do we fade into the woodwork? Or do we go boldly into the world and society as women?
None of us are Transwoman, we are women. We have our own thoughts, beliefs, values and morals. But society still sees us as Transwomen. Society needs to be taught that not every woman is their version of womanhood.
The Holy Grail is that society realize that women come in all shapes and sizes.
~The opinions stated as the writer's own and not necessarily those of management.~
Janet
Quote from: Janet Lynn on January 06, 2010, 09:04:41 PM
Ok, the person you just looked at is a woman, born a girl, raised as a girl ( Albeit, it was more like a boy ), loved as a girl, went to school as a girl.
Very nicely said. And I sooooo wish to believe it. I really do.
Because what's been driving me crazy is:
Quote from: ius2avasasage on January 06, 2010, 08:32:23 PM
the only difference between a girl born with a male biology and a girl born with a female biology is one of them knows...
If I can believe I always was a girl, I can salvage this Very Good Life of mine, keep my friends, keep everything I've built and earned... since I did it as a girl.
But if not, I HAVE to leave it all behind and start over, to TRY and somehow live in the delusion that I was born female, erasing and avoiding any reminders telling me otherwise.
The inner battle rages on...
Perhaps I should clarify what I meant by my original post. This is the kind of things she has been saying.
"I was referring to the fact that there are MANY similarities between many individuals in the community. Because of this, they often say things like 'Im proud to be transgendered!' I myself, am not. Its because #1, why be proud of a disability/birth defect? To be proud of such a thing only hurts your argument to society that you are no different than genetic women. Also, the many similarities in the trans community, I don't identify with one bit."
"yay as well for character limits! :-P
Its like I said in my one video tho. Many trans women are comforted by talking to those in the community as many are very openmindede because many of them have their own personal quirks, kinks, and 'progressive' view on gender and society.
I dont identify with this. I like the binary gender system. I believe people have the right to be a bit of a blend, or third gender, but I *do not* believe in radically changing society in that regard to suit them."
"Once I began to pass, society began to warm up to me, since they didnt know I wasnt born a woman, but the trans culture began to hate on me out of jealousy. That's honestly why I DONT wanna help the community as a whole. I often peer into the community and find the few women like myself, who dont fit in and feel so alone, and pull them out of it and teach them that it is TOTALLY ok to live in total 100% stealth. That unless the person is their family or the one they are romantically involved with, its NO ONE's business."
"I was a woman ,I desperately HATED being a boy, but I knew I HAD to act like one to survive. Many trans women, like it or not, have SOME affinity with being male. Most believe that all of us will ALWAYS be partially male, and thats fine if they believe that for themselves, but for me, its blatantly wrong."
"There are many ways for us to help our sisters just starting out, but you dont need to be out to do so. Also, eventually, we need to move on and live our lives and let the next generation of girls step up to help the following generation of trans women."
She has a point but I don't know it seems like she wants to be put in the box of genetic woman even though she despises being trans. She claims to be 25. If she completely hated being a boy for I 20 or so years of her life. Wouldn't she want to share her experiences with others and help as many as she could within her own community? I am not saying advertise it to strange people. It seems like she is being shallow only helping those who strictly identify with exactly the way she does. Even if your story does not match up exactly with others, you can still relate someway to the rest.
I didn't copy all that just to bash someone else. I did it because that is a scary thing. It's scary that someone can go through so much anguish and then say oh well I pass so I'm out. Maybe she didn't put it that way, but you know what I mean. It seems that she likes society the way it is and thinks that others should not accept birth defects. When people say they are proud to be X, that doesn't mean they are actually proud of being that. It usually means that they are proud of the experiences they had in order to have the better outlook they have at a future moment.
Would this person while living stealth actually go somewhere and see someone else is anguish and torn up over the same issued they had suffered and not tell them they went through the same thing? That is creepy. She is correct that you don't know need to be something in order to fight for it. She did fight for something and she shouldn't hide it because it's easier. Nothing ever ends, it just changes.
I will never be able to live a life without knowing or feeling my cerebral palsy. Even those who have completed transition probably still feel something. Granted the bulk of their negative feelings are gone, but you can't tell me it's over. It seems like this person is allowing society to contiue hating on Transsexuals.
Is this what the holy grail is? To say I got mine see you later. Let the next wave of TG people help.
Once again if I woke up without a disability would i just pretend not to have had CP and say let the people who still have it and the future generations take care of it.
There is hate everywhere. People will kill you because they didn't like the shade of green your shirt was.
Well I learned something from this. I think my guilt and fear of being a fraud is now gone. If she wants to be in a box, go ahead. I liked Gothique11's approach to TSism. She went through it all and still does things even though people hate it.
I am sorry for this blog type of material. I just found it shocking that a person would actually not help others given the pain she went through because it's too much stress on her back.
The holy grail?
I don't have a clue; I'm like the unarmed bear in the woods (inside joke, sorry). For most of us, we have never been, are not now, and will not be in the future, "Genetic females." Never. At least until the science progresses to actually changing the genes from male to female. Hmmm, maybe that can be my put-myself-to-sleep-fantasy for tonight.
But, we can become females, incomplete, but female none the less; we can become women, seen and accepted as such. Holy grail? Maybe, maybe not, but I'll settle for that for this life, and hope for the improving opportunities for our grand-daughters to be in the future.
SusanKG
insatiable demon :o
I would like to be rich, I would like to be beautiful, I would like to be young, I would like to be a different gender. I would like to be lots of things, maybe even a playboy centerfold, but that's not likely.
For me at least, what seems best is to go after what's achievable and make the best of it. It's good to have 'stretch' goals but wasting time and energy on something that will never be limits what you can be.
I will never pass as female (except for possibly among the blind and deaf). I have to accept that. However, there are things that I can do. Hormones, some woman's clothing, explore androgyny, and share who I am with my spouse. There are a million things I'm interested in trying. Even if you don't reach the destination, the journey can still kick ass!
I admire those who can find the holy grail, I can't.
I can't quite stretch to the holy grail but I work and live and are seen by most people as a woman and it's fine. It's well worth the effort.
Quote from: Marie731 on January 06, 2010, 05:45:30 PM
Unrealistic or not, that Holy Grail is my only chance.
For me, being "accepted as a transgender woman" is no more an appropriate solution than living as a male. It doesn't address my particular needs or motivations whatsoever.
That doesn't necessarily mean I have to hide my past from everyone. I realize I can't totally erase the facts of my history, but I can erode the relevance of it by just living my life normally and showing my own lack of interest.
The more you fight to "be the same," the more you set yourself apart as being something different.
Exactely, I totally agree..
Quote from: lauren3332 on January 06, 2010, 11:06:14 PMI am sorry for this blog type of material. I just found it shocking that a person would actually not help others given the pain she went through because it's too much stress on her back.
It's not necessarily "stress."
It's just that after assimilating, being around other TSs can bring back all the old feelings we're trying to forget. It's not meant as a slap against TSs, it's not
"I got mine so see ya," it's just painful to be amoungst all this stuff again when you're trying to pretend to yourself that it never happened so you CAN move on and put this stuff behind you.
There's a lure to places like this, places of unconditional support, a temptation to only deal with people who "understand." But it's all too easy to get stuck here, to circle yourself in an artificial bubble of other TSs and "the community" instead of going out and living your life as an assimilated, ordinary woman.
It's difficult to put into words exactly how this person was. Obviously we have to move on with our lives, but to claim that they shouldn't have to be accepted and to say leave trans issues to next wave of people with GID is rather selfish. That would be like a rape victim getting over the trauma and saying she shoudn't have to deal with anymore and she should not feel inclined to help other rape victims. I just think it is a bit of a cop out to say, that since I never felt trans and have more in common with genetic then transwomen, that I am not going to do anything to help make it easier for other and only help those who have the exact same issues as me. That is lame. True, it's no one's job to be super ultra hero, but it's funny that she thinks nothing applies to her because she doesn't identify 100% with the community. It makes you sound like an ass when you say the only reason trans people are out in society is because they couldn't pass or want attention. To use the excuse that Straight genetic women can be allies to trans too, so I don't have to come out is nothing but an excuse. If I woke up one day and didn't have Cerebral Palsy and I met someone else that was upset about their disability, do I just pretend I never had issues at one point in time to try to help them out? Do I just be the "normal" person so I don't have to deal with the pain of what having CP is like? yeah I could still help them without disclosing myself, but I would have a greater impact on the person if they knew I went through somewhat of a similar situation.
It's hard for trans people to tell the cisgendered people and have them understand. Yes anyone can help, but when more and more people that know what something is like first hand put their efforts to correcting the attitudes that go along with a certain dispostion. It's better for everybody. What if no one came out about HIV and tried to help others who have HIV? This person claimed that being known as trans only hurts your position in society that you are really your target sex, but by not telling (when appropriate of course) is just the same. Society is going to say "oh well you knew it was wrong and that is why you don't tell anybody." It's a two way street. You are going to have to defend yourself no matter what, even on non trans things. I have to defend myself with my CP and any other issues anyone else has they will have to defend for themselves too. It never ends, so she is in for a rude awakening.
I know I did not say all of this in the opening post because I was trying to get the main point across without having to write a book, but obviously I had to tell it all.
I'm confused.
She wishes she could be more than a "girl with an asterisk at the end," seems to want to disassociate with the TG community altogether, and publicly posts videos of these thoughts? I think there's more going on here than either she's letting on or you're interpreting, Lauren.
Here http://www.youtube.com/user/Ashleetorin (http://www.youtube.com/user/Ashleetorin)
There now everyone can go and see. There is something not right about her and she creeps me out. I hope not to run into people like her much.
Quote from: lauren3332 on January 09, 2010, 03:45:35 AM
Here http://www.youtube.com/user/Ashleetorin (http://www.youtube.com/user/Ashleetorin)
There now everyone can go and see. There is something not right about her and she creeps me out. I hope not to run into people like her much.
She didn't creep me out at all, she looked and sounded very natural and I thought she was ok.
some stuff she says is cool, other crap, not so much. She doesn't sound creepy in itself. What I mean is, she is creepy and scary if she thinks that nothing applies to her and that other should be the ones to do it. Yeah she gives all these warnings about how she has different views. She wants to be considered a "genetic" woman and shouldn't have to be accepted. That is creepy because, there is acceptance in everything for one no matter what it is about. Second, you can't claim to totally hate yourself through and through for 20+ years and then just blend into society while ignoring the pain of those in a similar situation as yourself because you don't want to have to "defend" yourself anymore. She herself is not creepy but her thoughts are.
Lauren her thoughts are very common. Not everyone wants to be a activist, not everyone wants to be involved in the community for the rest of their lives. Many people want to get through this and then move on and just be plain ol' women. I know I do. I am having my srs in May and I'll be moving on after that. I may or may not continue to read and post here, that remains to be seen, but I have already moved on from the community in real life. The whole point of transitioning is so that you can be yourself. If you identify as a transsexual then awesome, good for you, there is a happy home for you in the GLBT community. For other people it's part of the journey but it' not the destination so they are only visiting and that's fine too. No one is duty bound to remain in the community.
Quote from: Wendy1974 on January 09, 2010, 09:13:31 AM
For other people it's part of the journey but it' not the destination so they are only visiting and that's fine too. No one is duty bound to remain in the community.
That's exactly it. And it should be noted that many people DO help others while we're transitioning, but there often comes a time when you "graduate" and move out into the wider world, leaving the teaching to the next batch of student/teachers.
There was no "transgender movement", or perhaps it was still in its infancy?... I don't know.
Sure there was, you just didn't see it. SF, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Ann Arbor and a bunch of other cities had already passed the pioneering protection ordinances, support groups, perhaps not on the net (though there were several sites), were meeting, and at least in the larger places there were a lot of people out and about. I started going to ETVC, the forerunner to TGSF, back in '81.
Quote from: Wendy1974 on January 09, 2010, 09:13:31 AM
Lauren her thoughts are very common. Not everyone wants to be a activist, not everyone wants to be involved in the community for the rest of their lives. Many people want to get through this and then move on and just be plain ol' women. I know I do. I am having my srs in May and I'll be moving on after that. I may or may not continue to read and post here, that remains to be seen, but I have already moved on from the community in real life. The whole point of transitioning is so that you can be yourself. If you identify as a transsexual then awesome, good for you, there is a happy home for you in the GLBT community. For other people it's part of the journey but it' not the destination so they are only visiting and that's fine too. No one is duty bound to remain in the community.
I totally agree Wendy. We don't all want to set up a 'this is my transition' website and bask in the TG community activistivism forever!
No one ever said you had to stick around in the "community" per se, but for soneone to walk off and pretend nothing happened, that is a little weird. No one ever said it was a mission. All I am saying is if I am trucking a long and I know that someone could use my help because I know that I have been through the exact same thing at one point, then yeah I am going to do something about. What she has stated in some of her stuff is that she shouldn't have to be accepted and she only helps those who strictly identify with exactly how she is. That is kind of lame. The "I have got mine and that is all that matters is a stupid attitude." If the holy grail is just to use things until you get yours, then why is this forum so litterd with people?
I can tell that a lot of people here have reached a good way into transition probably have everything done except SRS. I know I am making a strong statement about people on here. Obviously a lot of people here don't think that, which is a good thing. I mean sure your past the bulk of it all but you care still and that is also a good thing. What I was trying to ask in a long drawn out way was, is the holy grail of being transgendered just to transition and pretend that you were "normal" the entire time? Is this really the goal? I am not saying to get stuck in the trans world. I am asking, can you really turn your back when you see someone in a similar situation you were in at one point? Can you really say, I have got mine so who cares? That is what this person is saying in a round about way but knowing that people might come against her, she words things to make it sound as if she isn't doing that.
To be fair, most of the persons I know who are involved in TG activism, are also involved in all sorts of other activist activities. But in the US activism is a very different deal than it is in other places.
Quote from: lauren3332 on January 09, 2010, 06:43:59 PM
is the holy grail of being transgendered just to transition and pretend that you were "normal" the entire time? Is this really the goal?
It just kinda happens I think. The normalcy of daily life starts to crowd out the memories and feelings of "being a TS," IF you let it, if you live an ordinary life and avoid the "community."
The people in my life (who "know") just don't want to hear about it. THEY are the ones who want to pretend it never happened. No one minds me being female, they just mind being reminded that it wasn't always (physically) the case. People in general embrace the gender binary, so if you can fit into their expectations for your sex, people will actually expect you to STAY there and keep quiet.
Quote from: Lauren332is the holy grail of being transgendered just to transition and pretend that you were "normal" the entire time? Is this really the goal?
Maybe for her it is. Maybe for some people it is. What is it to you? For me, the holy grail of being a woman born with the wrong bits was to transition my body to be the woman I've always been on the inside. I was never delusional. I realise I can never be a genetic female but this isn't about chromosomes, is it? If this was about chromosomes, then why do anything at all? It's about gender & aligning your body to fit your mind, it's about your essence of being male or female. My chromosomes mean crap to me if my brain is screaming that I'm a girl.
Quote from: Lauren332I am not saying to get stuck in the trans world. I am asking, can you really turn your back when you see someone in a similar situation you were in at one point? Can you really say, I have got mine so who cares?
Well, if peeps are here sharing what they know about their own transition, isn't that a form of support? Or do they need to be out & proud to be counted as 'supporters'.
My goal after GRS was to live life as stealthy as possible without the burden of being trans & I'm doing it. I couldn't be happier. I spent 25 years of my life as trans. I wasted 25 years as trans when I could've been a happy girl. I deserve to live a normal life as a woman. You all know what I mean by 'normal' so don't make me explain it to you. I respect those peeps that fight for equal rights but I'm not one of them. Maybe it's selfish on my part but it's time to take care of me now. I don't understand all this hullabaloo. Stealth & being out are choices you make.
Whilst it's true that some peeps want to be transgender activists after GRS, most of us just want to get on with our lives & leave the past behind not dwell on it & live our realities as the women we are.
I swear to God that it's only on TG 'support' forums where you hear that kind of tripe. "no you can never be a normal woman, you've got no uterus or your DNA is male, your vagina isn't real". No wonder peeps want to be gone from places like this & live in stealth. At least outside from here, nobody questions my being a woman & I don't have to deal with bigots.
Quote from: Lauren332she words things to make it sound as if she isn't doing that.
She does? Do you know her? are you her? How do you know? I apologise but I think it's kinda presumptious on your part to be speaking for her when she isn't here to defend herself.
I don't know how this relates to the topic but for me, the Holy Grail is to have significant stretches of time when I forget i ever had a male presentation at all.
I'm reminded of another thread in which someone said that pretty quickly post-op they forgot what it was like to have the parts dangling - I'd love to be able to forget - unless i had specific reason to think about it - that I was ever "male"
that I would perceive MYSELF as a GG.
If I could do that, I'llbet that as I moved through the world on a daily basis i wouldn't ever notice if someone were clocking me and reacting to me differently unless it was quite overt.
Quote from: tekla on January 09, 2010, 07:29:03 PM
To be fair, most of the persons I know who are involved in TG activism, are also involved in all sorts of other activist activities. But in the US activism is a very different deal than it is in other places.
In the U.K I notice that the one's mostly heavily involved in activism are the one's who through no fault of their own would only be seen or excepted as transsexual.
On the other hand I have a friend who has cut off all ties with the transsexual community including close friends. I think she needed to do this as she is a teacher and doesn't want to be known as transsexual because it could severely affect her job. I think once you have successfully transitioned as she has you do not want to keep digging up your past or broadcasting it to everyone the fact that you once changed gender.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on January 10, 2010, 07:53:41 AM
In the U.K I notice that the one's mostly heavily involved in activism are the one's who through no fault of their own would only be seen or excepted as transsexual.
Maybe it's because the only ones you notice ARE the ones who have difficulty passing and therefore are the most noticeable.
Amanda Simpson, Donna Rose, Leslie Townsend, Christine McGinn and others are all very passable trans women who are out. The most passable are the ones who can really make a difference in dispelling the negative stigma. I applaud those who don't "need" to come out but do so they can help improve life for all trans people.
In the category of non-passable trans activists, no names come to mind at the moment, which I find interesting
(to all) As far as this holy grail thing, if that term has anything to do with a futile search, why waste your time? Why not spend those energies making a difference?
Quote from: Julie Marie on January 10, 2010, 10:02:43 AM
(to all) As far as this holy grail thing, if that term has anything to do with a futile search, why waste your time?
I don't really have a choice. The "bug" (as someone called it ;)) which drives me is to "have been born female." Futile or not, that's my motivation, that's what guides my efforts.
And I'm actually constantly surprised at how close we can get to that ideal, at least in practical, day-to-day terms. Even with records, at this point I was born female, went to high school as a girl, went to colleges as a young woman, worked as a woman...
Earlier last year, I finally joined FaceBook and tracked down and "friended" pretty much everyone I've ever known from childhood through high school. Probably 60+ people at this point. And obviously, I had to tell them what I've done (briefly, one sentence, didn't make a big deal of it) or they wouldn't know who I was.
And the neat thing is that I now feel like I've kinda re-written my past, since all those people know me as a female now. Many of them were still living in the area, and different groups of us all host party get-togethers every few weekends now. And no, I'm not a "token transsexual" or anything. We NEVER talk about it. It's just a footnote I mentioned.
But again, since I've reconnected with my past friends as a female now, I kinda remember my past more and more that way too. I'm still debating the idea of starting over somewhere new to be able to pretend I was born female, but I'm actually making a lot of progress in just rewriting my current life as it is... was.... whatever, lol.
Quote from: lauren3332 on January 09, 2010, 03:45:35 AM
Here http://www.youtube.com/user/Ashleetorin (http://www.youtube.com/user/Ashleetorin)
There now everyone can go and see. There is something not right about her and she creeps me out. I hope not to run into people like her much.
Well, to me she just looked and sounded like any young girl yakking away at a video camera, making as much or as little sense as anyone else. If she didn't recognise how much she owes to previous generations of TS men and women, well, what's new? Many young women haven't a clue how much they owe to suffragettes or feminists. Old WWII veterans used to tell long-haired, dope-smoking Sixties kids, 'We fought a war for people like you.' The kids don't care. They're not bothered by the past. They're interested in the future.
If I had any negative reaction I guess it was a sort of melancholy envy. My life might have been very different if I had been that age at a time when awareness of gender issues and medical techniques like FFS were the way they are today. But that's not this girl's fault. She's going to have an entire adult life living as a 100% passable woman. For anyone who cares about the community, that in itself is a kind of triumph ...
Quote from: Carlita on January 10, 2010, 10:53:29 AM
Well, to me she just looked and sounded like any young girl yakking away at a video camera, making as much or as little sense as anyone else. If she didn't recognise how much she owes to previous generations of TS men and women, well, what's new? Many young women haven't a clue how much they owe to suffragettes or feminists. Old WWII veterans used to tell long-haired, dope-smoking Sixties kids, 'We fought a war for people like you.' The kids don't care. They're not bothered by the past. They're interested in the future.
If I had any negative reaction I guess it was a sort of melancholy envy. My life might have been very different if I had been that age at a time when awareness of gender issues and medical techniques like FFS were the way they are today. But that's not this girl's fault. She's going to have an entire adult life living as a 100% passable woman. For anyone who cares about the community, that in itself is a kind of triumph ...
Great post Carlita!
Quote from: Matilda on January 09, 2010, 10:59:53 AM
I consider this sort of implied "debt" to the "transgender community" to be ludicrous & kind of offensive at the same time. I know..weird.., but that's how I feel.
I'm reminded of a post in another thread:
Quote from: FairyGirl on January 09, 2010, 11:09:29 PM
I had my own personal experience with... [a] cult some while ago- it's basically you're "in" and "cool" like the rest of the sheep or else you're out. There is great pressure to conform and garner the approval... to make sure you're fighting the good fight. That kind of social pressure can cause people to make regrettable decisions in order to "fit in".
Quote from: Julie Marie on January 10, 2010, 10:02:43 AM
In the category of non-passable trans activists, no names come to mind at the moment, which I find interesting
i'll give you a few names: mara kiesling, autumn sandeen, monica helms, antonia d'orsay, lena dahlstrom & many others that post at pam's house blend & bilerico.
is stu rassmusen an activist? the transgender mayor? anyway stu doesn't pass either.
But passable or not, are they happy? And isn't that the only real meaning to this whole thing.
Janet
Quote from: Julie Marie on January 10, 2010, 10:02:43 AM
Maybe it's because the only ones you notice ARE the ones who have difficulty passing and therefore are the most noticeable.
Actually I have to agree with Naturally Blonde as there is one in my town who is totally male but went to THailand for a vagina and now four years down the line is still threatening all an dsundry medics with lawsuits on behalf of the other also non-passers clustered round 'her'.
Quote from: Marie731 on January 09, 2010, 09:09:30 PM
It just kinda happens I think. The normalcy of daily life starts to crowd out the memories and feelings of "being a TS," IF you let it, if you live an ordinary life and avoid the "community."
I've noticed this during my lulls in transition related activities. I mean, I can say for certain that the only reason I'm here on these forums is this year is a hot bed of transition related things for me.
In my own life I'd never deny my trans-roots, and I do what I can within my own circle to provide positivity however I am capable, but I'm pretty sure once my physical transition is done, my activeness in the community (not just here) is most likely going to atrophy... mainly because my interests simply don't lie in being and educator, activist, organizer, or support system for other folk interested in trans-related things.
Ha ha. Actually, one of the big reasons I've decided to document various aspects of my transition is because my job / art deals with a wide variety of people who are curious as to what I'm going through / have gone through and are open minded enough to learn as opposed to judge. You get enough people asking the same questions though, and it becomes necessary to just point them to a single website where your story is at.
I mean, I personally get satisfaction over the fact that what I have gone through helps people understand and have compassion / tolerance for trans-folk, but yeah... once it's all done, I won't be making as much of an effort to really engage them, because there's other things I want to do with my life, and transition is just a very unfortunate but necessary step for me to be comfortable living in this world.
Quote from: devi ever on January 11, 2010, 03:12:23 AM
I've noticed this during my lulls in transition related activities. I mean, I can say for certain that the only reason I'm here on these forums is this year is a hot bed of transition related things for me.
In my own life I'd never deny my trans-roots, and I do what I can within my own circle to provide positivity however I am capable, but I'm pretty sure once my physical transition is done, my activeness in the community (not just here) is most likely going to atrophy... mainly because my interests simply don't lie in being and educator, activist, organizer, or support system for other folk interested in trans-related things.
Ha ha. Actually, one of the big reasons I've decided to document various aspects of my transition is because my job / art deals with a wide variety of people who are curious as to what I'm going through / have gone through and are open minded enough to learn as opposed to judge. You get enough people asking the same questions though, and it becomes necessary to just point them to a single website where your story is at.
I mean, I personally get satisfaction over the fact that what I have gone through helps people understand and have compassion / tolerance for trans-folk, but yeah... once it's all done, I won't be making as much of an effort to really engage them, because there's other things I want to do with my life, and transition is just a very unfortunate but necessary step for me to be comfortable living in this world.
This is what I am saying. I What you have said is what I was getting at. Do what you can where you are at while not blasting yourself everywhere. You stirve for what you can and don't expect things that are impossible. Thanks for the comments. One thing this thread had shown me is something I have been confused about for a long time. I first wanted to be a teacher and then I got discouraged because of school and now I want to teach again thanks to the responses in this topic.
My holy grail may not be my neighbour's holy grail & vice versa ~wink~ I reckon everybody's interests are different & whilst I regard my holy grail to be complete in body & mind, somebody else may think a tad different from me.
The key to all this as Janet Lynn so cleverly put it is to be happy. As long as you're happy, nothing else matters.
I suppose my holy grail is what my life is now. I'm fully transitioned; I've had all the surgeries I needed to be whole, e.g. FFS, GRS. I'm residing in 2 different countries where people only know me as Blanche & not as "that bloke that changed his sex" If that isn't my holy grail, I really don't know what it could be. :laugh:
As for owing the community. That's a little bit of a stretch, sorry to laugh :laugh: Nothing personal peeps, but I only owe a few hundred euros to some credit card companies..that's about it.
I think that even with all of the surgeries currently available and all of the hormones as well it doesn't change the fact that a person who has transitioned is different in a few ways. Most of them are rather negligible, things like genetic differences, or perhaps what kind of internal organs you have, but nothing earth shattering. What is different though is your life experience.
Even if you transition perfectly and melt away into society undetected, you have a different set of experiences which change your view of the world. In that way yes you are different, but again it is not earth shattering.
Now personally I think you have to learn that you can't control what other people think of you, or how they react. You can only control yourself, and it's pointless to spend so much time fretting over b.s. that again, isn't earth shattering. Of course it matters how they treat you, but you cannot force someone to think of you as a genetic guy/girl and that is the sad fact of your situation.
Quote from: Janet Lynn on January 10, 2010, 07:40:04 PM
But passable or not, are they happy? And isn't that the only real meaning to this whole thing.
Janet
Yes and no! I would be a very happy bunny indeed being 100% passable. If I wasn't passable at all I would be very unhappy. We all have different agenda's and goals regarding what we are looking for in a gender transition.
Post Merge: January 12, 2010, 06:05:26 AM
Quote from: Blanche on January 12, 2010, 04:23:07 AM
I suppose my holy grail is what my life is now. I'm fully transitioned; I've had all the surgeries I needed to be whole, e.g. FFS, GRS. I'm residing in 2 different countries where people only know me as Blanche & not as "that bloke that changed his sex" If that isn't my holy grail, I really don't know what it could be. :laugh:
As for owing the community. That's a little bit of a stretch, sorry to laugh :laugh: Nothing personal peeps, but I only owe a few hundred euros to some credit card companies..that's about it.
I agree with you Blanche. You seem to be in full control and very level headed regarding your transition. You are right you only owe your credit companies, and unless you had a lot of advice from the gender community in the beginning you don't really owe them anything!
Post Merge: January 12, 2010, 08:09:18 AM
Quote from: chrysalis on January 12, 2010, 05:57:54 AM
I think that even with all of the surgeries currently available and all of the hormones as well it doesn't change the fact that a person who has transitioned is different in a few ways. Most of them are rather negligible, things like genetic differences, or perhaps what kind of internal organs you have, but nothing earth shattering. What is different though is your life experience.
Even if you transition perfectly and melt away into society undetected, you have a different set of experiences which change your view of the world. In that way yes you are different, but again it is not earth shattering.
Now personally I think you have to learn that you can't control what other people think of you, or how they react. You can only control yourself, and it's pointless to spend so much time fretting over b.s. that again, isn't earth shattering. Of course it matters how they treat you, but you cannot force someone to think of you as a genetic guy/girl and that is the sad fact of your situation.
Isn't it worth trying? otherwise why bother in the first place?
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on January 10, 2010, 11:59:50 AM
Great post Carlita!
Thank you so much *blushes* ... I'm a recent refugee from a site filled with angry flame bitches and I got badly burned by people choosing to respond viciously to perfectly innocent, non-provocative posts ... so it's nice to have an encouraging word! :)
I sorta relate to what the girl on the video says. It's got to be demeaning to be accepted as a 'special' girl just because there's some law or because people feel pity for you. Acceptance as something special was never my goal. I brought my body into congruence with my gender identity & I'm now the woman I always was. The difference is that people see that woman now when before they didn't. There's no special treatment as some weird species. No acceptance of any kind because they feel pity for me. I'm treated like any other woman because that's what I am & that's what they see. I dunno if I'm making any sense but that's my holy grail & I've achieved it.
Quote from: Carlita on January 12, 2010, 09:36:43 AM
Isn't it worth trying?
My point is that you can't force it. You can try but it not worth driving yourself crazy over. At some point you have to forget about it as best you can and get back to living your life to the fullest.
to put transitioning and vanishing off into stealth into perspective: we need to bear in mind that for maybe 30 years or more a clique of fools surrounding Ray Blanchard has been parroting the stupidity that there is no such thing as a transsexual...but during those 30 years tens of thousands of men and women have changed their bodies into something like the opposite sex and gone off and have lived happily for same 30 years. If all those men and women lined up for a group pix they'd look like a huge group of happy friends...while a group pix of Blanchard and his followers woudl show a bunch of sly unsmiling misfits who know perfectly well they are seen as bitter fools who are openly derided by everyone else.
Quote from: Janet Lynn on January 10, 2010, 07:40:04 PM
But passable or not, are they happy? And isn't that the only real meaning to this whole thing.
Janet
are they happy? i dunno. we'll have to ask them. off topic.
this was the comment:
Quote from: Julie Marie on January 10, 2010, 10:02:43 AM
In the category of non-passable trans activists, no names come to mind at the moment, which I find interesting
this was my answer:
Quote from: natashai'll give you a few names: mara kiesling, autumn sandeen, monica helms, antonia d'orsay, lena dahlstrom & many others that post at pam's house blend & bilerico.
is stu rassmusen an activist? the transgender mayor? anyway stu doesn't pass either.
I was told in no uncertain terms by a woman friend that I couldn't have it both ways.
She was willing to accept me into her world at face value, with female gender presentation, but I couldn't then dwell on my transgendered status.
We spent about four hours having lunch, shopping, etc., and she correctly pointed out later that I was obsessed almost the whole time with whether or not I was "passing".