hi!
is there someone at susan's place who identifies as mtf or ftm androgyne? i am thinking about it for a while. is there someone who feels the need to change their body but would identifie as androgyne?
I do, and I know there are several others as well who overlap the identities. I bind and want top surgery, dress male, and cringe at being called a girl, but have no current plans to take testosterone or legally transition.
raises hand :)
I've made some body changes to better fit who i am and sometimes i dress fem and wear makeup. That's the girly side.
The boy side is typical male. I'm genderfluid.
I see nothing wrong with it, so what if i like nail polish and chainsaws?
Androgyne encompasses an extremely wide variety of behavior. We welcome all, but you may get drug into the occasional fruitcake argument :D
It's been so long since I ruined my mouth's life with a fruitcake. :laugh:
To understand these fruitcake references, see this tense debate upon the subject: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,8479.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,8479.0.html) ;)
And myself, though I have not done anything lasting yet (I have a binder, but have not taken hormones, had surgery etc.) I do feel like in the future I would like to do something to move more towards having an androgynous body. As a female-bodied person, I am not happy with my physicality, but when I imagine myself totally male I cannot see myself being happy with that either. My idealised mental image of myself is of something in-between. I want to confuse people. :P Good luck to me doing that while still refusing to get my hair cut, but oh well...
I want to confuse people.
A worthy goal. Fun too. Its good for people to have their little worlds rocked from time to time. The expressions on their faces are so precious when they are all like "what?"
*raises hand* female body on T with no real plans for surgery. Nor do I have any plans on quitting wearing skirts.
Quote from: Fenrir on May 15, 2010, 09:37:43 PM
Good luck to me doing that while still refusing to get my hair cut, but oh well...
You have lovely, pretty hair.. If you do ever cut it keep the locks so I can make a scarf out of it.. 8)
Yes, though unlike Sevan, I'm intent of a full transition MtF, all so I can pivot round the centre point and and find the same kind of place I'm in at the moment, only I'll be approaching it from the right side of the gender spectrum.
Post Merge: May 16, 2010, 05:12:53 AM
Quote from: no_id on May 16, 2010, 04:54:52 AM
You have lovely, pretty hair.. If you do ever cut it keep the locks so I can make a scarf out of it.. 8)
Fenrir hair hat scarf and glove combo maybe?
I'm like Helena but from several decades into the future ;)
(That reminds me Helena we must get either the Tardis or that Delorean working properly again :D)
I'm only very loosely an andogyne - but do I have unashamedly andro/geek components in my self expression even if physically and biologically I present as as fully female as it is medically possible for me to be.
Bascially I'm a gender non conforming girl, with a female body and a mind which is whatever! :laugh:
But to answer the question - yes I deliberately did the FULL MtF transition and GRS as early in life as my circumstances would allow - precisely to allow myself to be at least somewhat cross gendered from what feels like the physically right side of the fence so to speak. It might sound a bit weird to some - but it works brilliantly for me!
The Delorean is in for it's MOT at the moment. You wouldn't believe how much they quoted me to fix the flux capacitor! :o
Quote from: Helena on May 16, 2010, 05:12:02 AM
Fenrir hair hat scarf and glove combo maybe?
Sure, if it ever happens that I cut it off. I certainly have enough of it! :D
Also raising hand. I have no intentions of transitioning and began HRT to control my gender dysphoria. The physical changes from HRT are easy to hide when I am not presenting female, but are a huge positive to my sense of female self. I shave my body, have had my facial hair removed and style my hair masculinely long. I spend the majority of my life as a guy but am equally comfortable presenting as male or female. Nothing locks in the way I present except for my clothes. I self identify as a woman who enjoys expressing herself as a man but refuses to give up her femininity.
So lucaluca....you got our attention :) Why do you ask?
Also...thanks for this thread. Seeing everyone who's like me-transitioning and androgyn identified.
"normally" if someone transition they identifie as a certain gender. but i was wondering if there are peole, who wouldn't say that they are a certain gender, but feel the need to transition and i want to know why. i try to explain it a little bit better ;) i wonder if there are people who say "i am an androgyne born in the wrong body". i wonder if this is possible, becuase if someone wants to change their body, it is because their gender does not fit with their bodybut if you are androgyne you have no gender or both, so where does the deed to transition come from? my english is not good enough, but i hope you understand what i mean :D
Yes - I understand you very well.
The need to transition comes from bodily dyphoria with your physical SEX... not your mental gender.
I do prefer to be seen as of female gender but I don't really care all that much what "psychological gender" people take me for as long as they see that my physical sex is unequivocaly female.
To get to that point I had to undergo SRS. So yes it does happen.
I (tenetively) plan on transitioning, but not all the way. I definitely identify as genderqueer/androgyne, not as FtM, and I want my body to reflect that. My plan is to take T short-term (I don't know for how long, though, probably a year or two-- I'll figure that out once I have access to a professional I can talk through details with) for the changes in voice/body hair/etc, but I don't intend to have top surgery (and certainly not bottom surgery), because my body shape in and of itself doesn't cause any particular dysphoria. I do very occassionally bind, but that's often more of a bandaid-fix for dysphorias I can't deal with quite as readily (such as my voice).
I guess what I want is for my body to reflect what I feel, in part because there is a painful disconnect between how I see and hear myself in my mind and on the pages of my sketchbooks and journals, and the way I see and hear myself in the mirror and when I speak... but also in part because it makes what I feel real in the rest of the world's eyes. maybe that part wouldn't be a factor if I lived in a different time and place, but in American in 2010 it's hard for it not to be a factor. The disconnect between mind and body is far too painfully apparent when the entire world around you only acknowledges your body when they speak to you and about you. Gender (which for most people is synonymous with sex) is engrained in everything, right down to our grammar, and it's hard to survive that when your sex doesn't match your gender.
I bind. I wear mixed clothing. My hair is relatively short.
I take nullifying anti-T/E hormone pills...
.. They're a bit placebo like, but they look really pretty....
.. Taste like m&m's too..
I'm chugging along slowly in my transition. I'm not exactly sure which label actually fits me the best, so I tend to just say "genderqueer". I'm somewhere between androgyne and FTM; I have bodily dysphoria but not enough yet to make me sure I want to go on T. I would readily describe my gender as "effeminate male", and for now I am trying out changing my gender expression to see if that eases my dysphoria. I'm not sure if I'm going to need to transition more or if I'll be happy presenting in a more masculine, androgynous or mixed way with my body as it is now.
I'm a FtM androgyne
But I'm not androgynous in the way I am, I just look androgynous (In my opinion I think I look androgynous anyway)
I'm M2IA (Male to Intergender Androgyne) I have beard and are growing a fem body (through hormones) and often wear padding to enlarge my breasts as well as wearing fem tops and pants that could go either way (mostly from fem side of store) I hope to one day have down their surgery leaving me with boy bits & girl bits but I don't know if that will ever happen. I normally wear eye shadow & lipstick and are wanting to explore other make-up as well
To the androgynies who are modifying their bodies to appear as both sexes, what kind of reaction do you receive from the public?
Are you ever treated disrespectfully by customer service?
Quote from: Hermione01 on May 20, 2010, 07:42:10 PM
To the androgynies who are modifying their bodies to appear as both sexes
There are at least four completely different strategies for modifying the body to express gender. Some of us would like to appear sexless wrt the binary extremes. Some of us chose to appear as a blend of male and female that is right for us, and some solidly as one sex at a given time & the other at another. Still others may chose to express genders outside the concept of male or female.
Each has it's own "reaction from the public" within different cultural situations. I chose to modify my body so I am able to solidly express my gender as one sex at a given time and the other at another. As I only ever appear as a traditional "male" or "female, " I do not experience a reaction any different than my cisgender counterparts.
I'm sure this was not really what you were getting at, but I wanted to make the point that there are many ways to modify the body to express one's gender.
Quote from: Hermione01 on May 20, 2010, 07:42:10 PM
To the androgynies who are modifying their bodies to appear as both sexes, what kind of reaction do you receive from the public?
Are you ever treated disrespectfully by customer service?
I've been laughed at and had strange comments and looks from general public sometimes sales people are unsure of weather to call me sir or mam but I haven't felt like I've been treated badly by anyone who was selling me stuff.
Quote from: Hermione01 on May 20, 2010, 07:42:10 PM
To the androgynies who are modifying their bodies to appear as both sexes, what kind of reaction do you receive from the public?
Are you ever treated disrespectfully by customer service?
I'm female bodied with DDD breasts. I don't bind. I find it far more uncomfortable to do so-and that's the oppisite direction of what I'm going for (I'm going for comfort in skin. Not MORE uncomfort in skin) so no matter what I wear....I appear female. I do get some odd looks from time to time.....though I'm usually out with my MtF mate so it's difficult to truely say WHO is getting the looks. We haven't decided if it's the sum of all the parts...or if it's just her, or just me...we really don't know.
I am on T (as I've said) and I am rapidly developing a beard (as I hope you can see in my avatar) so I suspect there may be a point at which I come across more...."bearded woman" or some such....but I'm not there yet...so I guess...we'll see? I'm a little worried about how the bathroom situation will go down and whatnot but I'm trying to focus on the *now*
Can I be ATM? I don't mean a machine for dispensing cash.
Quote from: Virginia on May 21, 2010, 04:59:04 AM
Each has it's own "reaction from the public" within different cultural situations. I chose to modify my body so I am able to solidly express my gender as one sex at a given time and the other at another. As I only ever appear as a traditional "male" or "female, " I do not experience a reaction any different than my cisgender counterparts.
Same here.
The most noteable reaction was when i was presenting male, with a certain thin t-shirt i have on, riding up on an elevator with a male. He stared at my (itty bitty) chest the whole time, to the point that it was getting embarrassing. Made me realize what our sisters go through.
And, i don't wear that t-shirt any more :D
Quote from: Helena on May 16, 2010, 05:12:02 AM
Yes, though unlike Sevan, I'm intent of a full transition MtF, all so I can pivot round the centre point and and find the same kind of place I'm in at the moment, only I'll be approaching it from the right side of the gender spectrum.
dittoalthough i didn't quiet understand myself until yesterday
Quote from: LordKAT on May 23, 2010, 07:42:56 AM
Can I be ATM? I don't mean a machine for dispensing cash.
do you mean Androgyne to Male or A gender to Male either way I'm happy to say yes anthough some people may claim that your starting point is based on Biology where as Androgyne and Agender are identies if you are naturally Androgynous Looking and you want to look Male then I don't see why anyone would have a problem anthough I've come across people who think that only very narrow group of gender deverse people are acceptable and others are all crazy. I have tried to use the Label M2IS but have been told that it is not acceptabe by some and have been told by others that I should be able to claim myself as IS
Quote from: Kinkly on May 24, 2010, 04:06:43 PM
do you mean Androgyne to Male or A gender to Male either way I'm happy to say yes anthough some people may claim that your starting point is based on Biology where as Androgyne and Agender are identies if you are naturally Androgynous Looking and you want to look Male then I don't see why anyone would have a problem anthough I've come across people who think that only very narrow group of gender deverse people are acceptable and others are all crazy. I have tried to use the Label M2IS but have been told that it is not acceptabe by some and have been told by others that I should be able to claim myself as IS
At the risk of being considered narrow minded. I don't think it makes sense to call yourself male to intersex (assuming that is what IS stands for).
Although male and female are both genders and sexes, intersex isn't really used to describe gender, it's a biological term. I wouldn't say you shouldn't use it though. Perhaps male to inter-gender would be more appropriate. Though it isn't used much in this sense.
A word I came across before I never hear used in trans places is epicene. I think I might start using that. Androgyne doesn't work entirely as it implies either between or both male and female and I am not both nor do I want to be. Neutrois to me implies lack of all gender characteristics, as in childhood. In effect I would be using epicene as "negative androgyne" (not wanting characteristics exclusive to either, yet wanting adult gender characteristics). I think this works better because epicene seems to imply more an identity with markers of neither gender. The word androgyne is the combination of andro (male) and gyne (female), epicene contains neither.
Quote from: Cayce on May 24, 2010, 06:16:43 PM
At the risk of being considered narrow minded. I don't think it makes sense to call yourself male to intersex (assuming that is what IS stands for).
Although male and female are both genders and sexes, intersex isn't really used to describe gender, it's a biological term. I wouldn't say you shouldn't use it though. Perhaps male to inter-gender would be more appropriate. Though it isn't used much in this sense.
I've heard a number of reasons why I shouldn't use M2IS
I realise that there are valid reasons why I shouldn't use it
but to me it makes perfect sense when I saw the movie XXY I was able to see for the first time someone who was truely mixed between male and female with out it being an act. eg Sideshow style bearded Lady.
and sie was sick of taking Meds to make hir "normal" -something else I could relate to.
Quote from: Kinkly on May 25, 2010, 09:43:43 AM
I've heard a number of reasons why I shouldn't use M2IS
I realise that there are valid reasons why I shouldn't use it
but to me it makes perfect sense when I saw the movie XXY I was able to see for the first time someone who was truely mixed between male and female with out it being an act. eg Sideshow style bearded Lady.
and sie was sick of taking Meds to make hir "normal" -something else I could relate to.
Yep I too loved XXY it's the ONLY film dealing with issue that I do like actually, but maybe that is because I discovered later on in life that I actually had a mild IS condition all along myself.
As regards how you identify I think you should feel free to use the labels you feel comfortable with. Who cares if it isn't strictly medically precise? This is life, not a medical textbook, and sometimes things do get a little blurry round the edges. :)
Thanks Jenny its particularly hard when you go somewhere for support either IRL or online and you get told that the way you identify is wrong. It is good when people are willing to stand up for you. so thanks
Okay. Obviously what I said was misunderstood. I apologise.
Firstly, I didn't say how you identify is wrong, nor did I mean to imply it. Secondly, I didn't say the language you use to describe yourself is wrong. I did say that I don't think intersex is an effective word to use. It's not a case of being medically precise. I was just thinking about how the words used are understood by others. Intersex traditionally being a biological term, used to describe people born intersex I would imagine most people would fail to grasp the context you use it in.
Without meaning to sound condescending, I think it's absolutely fine that you should use IS. I was simply explaining my opinion on you using it, that although it is not wrong to do so, I do not think it would make sense to most people.
I haven't seen XXY, but it sounds interesting. Perhaps my opinion would change if I watched it.
Post Merge: May 26, 2010, 06:15:04 PM
Heh, 5 posts and I'm already apologising to people. ???
Can't wait till you've done ten ;D