mtf or ftm androgyne?

[Kinkly]

I'm M2IA (Male to Intergender Androgyne) I have beard and are growing a fem body (through hormones) and often wear padding to enlarge my breasts as well as wearing fem tops and pants that could go either way (mostly from fem side of store) I hope to one day have down their surgery leaving me with boy bits & girl bits but I don't know if that will ever happen. I normally wear eye shadow & lipstick and are wanting to explore other make-up as well

[Hermione01]

To the androgynies who are modifying their bodies to appear as both sexes, what kind of reaction do you receive from the public?
Are you ever treated disrespectfully by customer service?

[Virginia]

To the androgynies who are modifying their bodies to appear as both sexes

There are at least four completely different strategies for modifying the body to express gender. Some of us would like to appear sexless wrt the binary extremes. Some of us chose to appear as a blend of male and female that is right for us, and some solidly as one sex at a given time & the other at another. Still others may chose to express genders outside the concept of male or female.

Each has it's own "reaction from the public" within different cultural situations. I chose to modify my body so I am able to solidly express my gender as one sex at a given time and the other at another. As I only ever appear as a traditional "male" or "female, "  I do not experience a reaction any different than my cisgender counterparts.

I'm sure this was not really what you were getting at, but I wanted to make the point that there are many ways to modify the body to express one's gender.

[Kinkly]

To the androgynies who are modifying their bodies to appear as both sexes, what kind of reaction do you receive from the public?
Are you ever treated disrespectfully by customer service?

I've been laughed at and had strange comments and looks from general public sometimes sales people are unsure of weather to call me sir or mam but I haven't felt like I've been treated badly by anyone who was selling me stuff.

[Sevan]

To the androgynies who are modifying their bodies to appear as both sexes, what kind of reaction do you receive from the public?
Are you ever treated disrespectfully by customer service?

I'm female bodied with DDD breasts. I don't bind. I find it far more uncomfortable to do so-and that's the oppisite direction of what I'm going for (I'm going for comfort in skin. Not MORE uncomfort in skin) so no matter what I wear....I appear female. I do get some odd looks from time to time.....though I'm usually out with my MtF mate so it's difficult to truely say WHO is getting the looks. We haven't decided if it's the sum of all the parts...or if it's just her, or just me...we really don't know.

I am on T (as I've said) and I am rapidly developing a beard (as I hope you can see in my avatar) so I suspect there may be a point at which I come across more...."bearded woman" or some such....but I'm not there yet...so I guess...we'll see? I'm a little worried about how the bathroom situation will go down and whatnot but I'm trying to focus on the *now*

[LordKAT]

Can I be ATM? I don't mean a machine for dispensing cash.

[Eva Marie]

Each has it's own "reaction from the public" within different cultural situations. I chose to modify my body so I am able to solidly express my gender as one sex at a given time and the other at another. As I only ever appear as a traditional "male" or "female, "  I do not experience a reaction any different than my cisgender counterparts.

Same here. 

The most noteable reaction was when i was presenting male, with a certain thin t-shirt i have on, riding up on an elevator with a male. He stared at my (itty bitty) chest the whole time, to the point that it was getting embarrassing. Made me realize what our sisters go through.

And, i don't wear that t-shirt any more 

[confused]

Yes, though unlike Sevan, I'm intent of a full transition MtF, all so I can pivot round the centre point and and find the same kind of place I'm in at the moment, only I'll be approaching it from the right side of the gender spectrum.

ditto
although i didn't quiet understand myself until yesterday

[Kinkly]

Can I be ATM? I don't mean a machine for dispensing cash.

do you mean Androgyne to Male or A gender to Male either way I'm happy to say yes anthough some people may claim that your starting point is based on Biology where as Androgyne and Agender are identies if you are naturally Androgynous Looking and you want to look Male then I don't see why anyone would have a problem anthough I've come across people who think that only very narrow group of gender deverse people are acceptable and others are all crazy.  I have tried to use the Label M2IS but have been told that it is not acceptabe by some and have been told by others that I should be able to claim myself as IS

[Cayce]

do you mean Androgyne to Male or A gender to Male either way I'm happy to say yes anthough some people may claim that your starting point is based on Biology where as Androgyne and Agender are identies if you are naturally Androgynous Looking and you want to look Male then I don't see why anyone would have a problem anthough I've come across people who think that only very narrow group of gender deverse people are acceptable and others are all crazy.  I have tried to use the Label M2IS but have been told that it is not acceptabe by some and have been told by others that I should be able to claim myself as IS

At the risk of being considered narrow minded. I don't think it makes sense to call yourself male to intersex (assuming that is what IS stands for).

Although male and female are both genders and sexes, intersex isn't really used to describe gender, it's a biological term. I wouldn't say you shouldn't use it though. Perhaps male to inter-gender would be more appropriate. Though it isn't used much in this sense.

A word I came across before I never hear used in trans places is epicene. I think I might start using that. Androgyne doesn't work entirely as it implies either between or both male and female and I am not both nor do I want to be. Neutrois to me implies lack of all gender characteristics, as in childhood. In effect I would be using epicene as "negative androgyne" (not wanting characteristics exclusive to either, yet wanting adult gender characteristics). I think this works better because epicene seems to imply more an identity with markers of neither gender. The word androgyne is the combination of andro (male) and gyne (female), epicene contains neither.

[Kinkly]

At the risk of being considered narrow minded. I don't think it makes sense to call yourself male to intersex (assuming that is what IS stands for).

Although male and female are both genders and sexes, intersex isn't really used to describe gender, it's a biological term. I wouldn't say you shouldn't use it though. Perhaps male to inter-gender would be more appropriate. Though it isn't used much in this sense.

I've heard a number of reasons why I shouldn't use M2IS
I realise that there are valid reasons why I shouldn't use it
but to me it makes perfect sense when I saw the movie XXY I was able to see for the first time someone who was truely mixed between male and female with out it being an act. eg Sideshow style bearded Lady.
and sie was sick of taking Meds to make hir "normal" -something else I could relate to.

[rejennyrated]

I've heard a number of reasons why I shouldn't use M2IS
I realise that there are valid reasons why I shouldn't use it
but to me it makes perfect sense when I saw the movie XXY I was able to see for the first time someone who was truely mixed between male and female with out it being an act. eg Sideshow style bearded Lady.
and sie was sick of taking Meds to make hir "normal" -something else I could relate to.

Yep I too loved XXY it's the ONLY film dealing with issue that I do like actually, but maybe that is because I discovered later on in life that I actually had a mild IS condition all along myself.

As regards how you identify I think you should feel free to use the labels you feel comfortable with. Who cares if it isn't strictly medically precise? This is life, not a medical textbook, and sometimes things do get a little blurry round the edges.

[Kinkly]

Thanks Jenny its particularly hard when you go somewhere for support either IRL or online and you get told that the way you identify is wrong.  It is good when people are willing to stand up for you.  so thanks

[Cayce]

Okay. Obviously what I said was misunderstood. I apologise.

Firstly, I didn't say how you identify is wrong, nor did I mean to imply it. Secondly, I didn't say the language you use to describe yourself is wrong. I did say that I don't think intersex is an effective word to use. It's not a case of being medically precise. I was just thinking about how the words used are understood by others. Intersex traditionally being a biological term, used to describe people born intersex I would imagine most people would fail to grasp the context you use it in.

Without meaning to sound condescending, I think it's absolutely fine that you should use IS. I was simply explaining my opinion on you using it, that although it is not wrong to do so, I do not think it would make sense to most people.

I haven't seen XXY, but it sounds interesting. Perhaps my opinion would change if I watched it.
Post Merge: May 26, 2010, 06:15:04 PM
Heh, 5 posts and I'm already apologising to people.

[Pica Pica]

Can't wait till you've done ten