No offence but I'm gonna be blunt and honest. I feel a little weird about same sex esp two guys. I know gender and sexuality is different. And I don't understand how some FTM can be bi or gay? If you were attracted to males, wouldnt of you just stayed female. I don't have any homosexual friends and I don't like going to homosexual places...Pls, make me understand and open my mind up :)
I'm not trying to start anything. Just being honest.
Not only is gender and sexuality different, so is sex and gender. Your orientation or sexuality as you put it is only who you are attracted to. You seem to get that part. Sex is the physical part, the differing genitals. You sort of get that. Gender is how you perceive yourself. You know (at least I did) from little on whether you are a boy or a girl. You don't necessarily know about opposite genitalia at that age.
Does that help?
So, FTM who are bi or gay is attracted to two guys having sex? And not doing the straight way like vagina and penis?
I am into females. Yes I have male equipment. So the thought is well you have the right equipment to have sex with women.
That isnt enough. Gender does not dictate sexual preferance, nor the other way around.
I can tottaly understand why an FTM who is into men would still transition. Just because the equipment is compatable doesnt make the outward presentation compatable with the inside.
I don't get it and I never will. But is it possible for a transguy to be homophobic? ???
Quote from: accord03 on May 21, 2010, 07:42:43 AM
I don't get it and I never will. But is it possible for a transguy to be homophobic? ???
Of course. But why fear homosexuals?
I doubt you are homophobic. Just sounds like you are not into gay sex, that isnt homophobia.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/homophobia (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/homophobia)
Yeah, I don't like gay sex. I think it's gross and I would never be friend a homosexual cause lesbians are butchy and gays are abnormal. Maybe, I am insecure deep inside like I don't wanna be around those type of people cause I don't wanna seem like I'm one of them cause I like knowing and people seeing me as a total guy.
what if u had a friend and that person decided to come out would u still be friends?
LordKAT, I imagine and would hope that you are being somewhat facitious with that response. Homophobia in common usage doesn't mean fear of homosexuals but a negative attitude towards them. I am guessing that this is what accord03 meant.
accord03, I can understand your confusion on this and I hope that the other comments on this thread about the difference between sex, gender and sexual orientation have helped.
From a personal viewpoint, I am biologically female and happen to find males sexually attractive. Fine so far. But I identify as male and this is where you confusion comes in, I guess. So, am I a straight woman or a gay man? I identify as the latter.
As for the possibility of transpeople being homophobic, of course they can be. We all have prejudices of some sort, even if we like to kid ourselves that we don't. However, one would hope that, with their experience of the wide varieties of the possible permutations and combinations of gender identity and the difficulty this can raise, they would be in the best position to accept, if not understand.
However, we all from different backgrounds and the beliefs instilled in us by what we hear around us can be difficult to shift. There may also be self-protective reasons why you find homosexuality offensive. Who knows.
But good for you for making an attempt to get to grips with the understandably complex situation. More power to your elbow.
Quote from: accord03 on May 21, 2010, 08:00:56 AM
Yeah, I don't like gay sex. I think it's gross and I would never be friend a homosexual cause lesbians are butchy and gays are abnormal. Maybe, I am insecure deep inside like I don't wanna be around those type of people cause I don't wanna seem like I'm one of them cause I like knowing and people seeing me as a total guy.
I was wrong. You are homophobic.
I doubt my friends would ever come out.
Pap - Yeah. That's the confusion part. I guess I just have to keep reading around and trying to understand more about it. I thought it was weird for me to be homophobic but when you broke it down, it was true. Guess everyone is different.
Post Merge: May 21, 2010, 08:13:55 AM
Yeah, I think I am homophobic and that's weird ::)
well what if one of em did would u still be there for them u cant tell if someones gay if there supressing it. i know one of my friend said that if one of his close friends came out has gay he would never be friends again and that to me seems sad because there the same person theres absolytly nothing different when they were friends. im having problems with my sexuality because i think im finding females somewhat attractive but im a bio female so im staying asexual till i get surgery.
I'll freak out esp if its one of my boys cause the girls I know always joke about being in love with a girl but I know they're just messing. I don't know what I'll do, I never actually thought bout it. Maybe, I'll be distant with them
Papillon,
I was not being facetious. Homophobia is a fear of homosexuals. This fear is what often gives the negative actions you find from their words and behavior.
Main Entry: ho·mo·pho·bia
Pronunciation: \ˌhō-mə-ˈfō-bē-ə\
Function: noun
Date: 1969
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals
— ho·mo·pho·bic \-ˈfō-bik\ adjective
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homophobia (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homophobia)
i think u should open up a little try not to be so close-minded cause if one of ur boys came out he'd be expecting u to be there to not turn him away cause u were his friend before. maybe not. to me a friend is someone that will stick by u no matter what if u come out gay or trans they will still be there and if they wont then they were never ur friend in the first place.
But seriously my friends can't come out. They're homophobics ::)
LordKat, I don't want to get into a battle of semantics in accord03's thread, but the reference to homophobia as being a fear of homosexuals, as opposed to being a negative attitude towards them, is often used a ploy by which to undermine the homophobic (being afraid of something doesn't detract from its worth. Being disgusted by it does. Also, no one wants to be thought of as being afraid of something they despise).
I am not assuming that this was the trick you were trying to pull, but I guess I just have an oversensitivity to the use of this meaning when it is often not what is implied when used by someone who is, or suspects themselves to be, homophobic. And I really don't think accord03 meant that he was scared of homosexuals, just that he found the whole subject to be distasteful at present. [/semantic rant]
technically if im attracted to females that makes me gay and i used to be the most homophopic out there but lately its kinda been freakin me out so i dont really judge gays as much anymore. same goes for trans a ftm could were the friliest dresses and play with dolls and be really girly on the outside but on the inside feel male.
Quote from: mcalistershaun on May 21, 2010, 08:41:35 AM
technically if im attracted to females that makes me gay and i used to be the most homophopic out there but lately its kinda been freakin me out so i dont really judge gays as much anymore. same goes for trans a ftm could were the friliest dresses and play with dolls and be really girly on the outside but on the inside feel male.
If you are FTM and are sexualy atracted to females you are a strait male. A FTM can be a gay male but not a dyke.
Are you a FTM and straight?
I'm a pansexual bloke.
When I am with a male partner I am not a woman, I'm still me, the bloke.
Who I am with does not dictate by identity.
A man who is with another man is not a woman.
And gay men are not abnormal. They are perfectly within the range of normal human behavior.
If I were you I'd take some time to try and figure out what it is that makes you uncomfortable about something someone else does that doesn't even involve you, that isn't really your business at all.
i am ftm but the ppl around me make it seem like u dont have the parts so if ur attracted to females ur gay and i have female parts so if i like someone with female parts wouldnt that make me gay. once i get surgery then ill be a straight male. my mom says she wont aknowledge me as male ntill i get the surgery so i guess in my mind i am a straight male but IDK like i said im a little homophopic kinda im have nothing against gays and wouldnt mind being freinds with one but to be one makes me rather nervous, i cant think of the word to describe it. the ppl around me make it seem like being gay is a crime.
I am biologically female but I have a male gender identity making me an FTM, If I were attracted to men(biological or otherwise) I would be gay, but as I am attracted to women(biological or otherwise) I am a straight man.
I'm entitled to have my own opinion.
McShaun - If you act and believe that you're a man, it shouldnt matter what people have to say. Start doing changes so they'll take you as a guy and forget about what you have between your pants.
im out as male i mean i dont own any female garments and havent for almost 7 yrs. ppl look at me either as male but dont say so or just wierd they dont no wat i am, i just dont think a female would be attracted to this. Maybe one day ill wake up and this will have been just a nightmare and ill have all the right parts.
What pronouns do they use? What do they call you (name wise)? And what do you mean females won't be attracted to this?
ive asked a few of my friends to use male pronouns and call me Shaun most of them still call me Tasha and use she which BTW is extremely degrading. Wheat i mean by they wont be attracted to this i mean a man with a vag, homestly i sure as hell wouldnt be attracted to that i could see myself attracted to a MTF even without surgery.
Quote from: mcalistershaun on May 21, 2010, 09:30:02 AM
Wheat i mean by they wont be attracted to this i mean a man with a vag,
honestly I would hope that if someone is going to be in a relationship with you they would respect you enough that they wouldn't consider you a "man with a vag" I know my girlfriend doesn't. I have a dick, its small but its mine.
You point that out to them and tell them you don't like being called she or a girl. They'll understand and if they don't just completly block them out and don't answer till they start using male pronouns.
Trust me, it isn't the junk in the trunk that females are after. My girlfriend is completly straight and we've been together since I didn't even considered myself FTM cause I didn't know such things existed. Now, I treat, act, talk like a guy and she and everyone around me treats me like one. There are many times I told her you know, she can find a guy with the whole package but she loves me so she says I am the whole package and penis isn't what makes a real man. WORD BRO! I know. All the girls I've messed with is all dead straight and it just how you carry yourself out that matters.
Bi, and I don't want to be with a man as a woman. This isn't the sole reason for me to transition (sex).
i never looked at it that way im just very pessimistic i always thought that females were lookin for the whole package. hhhmmmm. maybe when or if i go to college ill meet someone with an open-mind and like me for me. i live in a small town in MO and ppl here are extremely-close minded, most of them dont even know what the word transgender means or is. most ppl have no clue that i dont have the right parts. can u imagine them finding out i think it would be horrible and i hate telling ppl i am a bio female.
Most trans can be very pessimistic cause we don't have the junk but you can't always think that cause to alot of females, it doesn't matter. They want a guy they feel secure and special around. You can give a woman that, she'll stay with you through thick and thin.
Quote from: accord03 on May 21, 2010, 09:52:59 AM
Most trans can be very pessimistic cause we don't have the junk but you can't always think that cause to alot of females, it doesn't matter. They want a guy they feel secure and special around. You can give a woman that, she'll stay with you through thick and thin.
exactly
Quote from: mcalistershaun on May 21, 2010, 09:30:02 AM
ive asked a few of my friends to use male pronouns and call me Shaun most of them still call me Tasha and use she which BTW is extremely degrading. Wheat i mean by they wont be attracted to this i mean a man with a vag, homestly i sure as hell wouldnt be attracted to that i could see myself attracted to a MTF even without surgery.
Think on what you just said.
If you could see past the genital flaw what makes you think others woulod be incapable of seeing past your's?
Not to pick on the subject. But you said your were with this girl before you even identified as trans? Well what did you identify as then? Seeing as though you would have been a girl dating a straight cool. Unless I understood wrong.
I myself date people for their heart, mind, soul, personality, and maturity. I dont care whats between the legs. I find people attractive based on the insides not the shell. Call me gay call my whatever. Its just how I am. Yes staying a female to date men would have been easier in society but its not who I am. I am not a female. I hate my female shell. I need to be who i really am. To make me happy.
Quote from: JakeDenver on May 21, 2010, 01:15:00 PM
I myself date people for their heart, mind, soul, personality, and maturity. I dont care whats between the legs. I find people attractive based on the insides not the shell. Call me gay call my whatever. Its just how I am. Yes staying a female to date men would have been easier in society but its not who I am. I am not a female. I hate my female shell. I need to be who i really am. To make me happy.
Ahhh THIS... loving someone for who they are not WHAT they are... if only all human beings were as open minded &accepting as us.
I would thing being trans would help with that.
Btw who you're attracted to has nothing to do with your gender identity, like previously mentioned.
Forcing myself to stay female-bodied simply because I am attracted to males is what caused me to be trapped in a body I hate for so many years. If anything, it makes it worse because straight males are attracted to the elements of my body that I despise the most. Relationships are immaterial; my body is wrong. That is the point.
That said, I have no time to waste with homophobes. If two consenting adults are having sex, it's not yours nor anyone else's business. It in no way threatens you. Acting as if it is something you must concern yourself with is idiotic. Grow up and learn how to keep your nose out of other people's personal lives.
Quote from: accord03 on May 21, 2010, 08:30:33 AM
But seriously my friends can't come out. They're homophobics ::)
Accord, some people who are homophobic are in fact bi or gay themselves. It's possible (though I don't know how likely) that one of your friends is like that.
You appear to have a girlfriend and have apparently been perceived as a lesbian by other people? Is that true? Do you see yourself as straight?
Of course, lots of folks will be only too happy to categorize you to suit themselves. If people see you as a woman or if you are pretransition and attracted to women, some people will see you as a lesbian.
Once you transition, even if you have bottom surgery, some people will still insist that you are a lesbian. A lesbian in denial. A lesbian who hates "her" sexuality or "her" self so much that "she" changed her body to fit into a heteronormative or andronormative/patriarchal box. They may not know you personally; they will just categorize people that way, and you fit in the category.
In other words, some people will always see folks like us as gay, no matter how we identify or whether we change our bodies.
QuoteSo, FTM who are bi or gay is attracted to two guys having sex? And not doing the straight way like pussy and penis?
The spectrum of gay/bi FTM sexual practice is broad and varies from person to person. Some guys keep their front holes and never have sex there; some keep those parts and love sex there. Some like anal sex and some don't. Some guys feel incomplete without male genitals and like to use those parts or have them pleasured.
I imagine that a few guys out there don't have top surgery, ever, and might like their chests the way they are. I haven't run into a guy like that that I know of, but I recognize that it could happen. To each his own.
For myself, I have always imagined (from early childhood) that the
natural way of the universe was that men like to be with men--because who would want to be with a woman! Yes, I was a little gay boy long before I understood sex. I had some female playmates but preferred the boys. When I started imagining sex (before I experienced it with another person), I tried to fantasize about men and women together, and it just didn't do anything for me. It seemed wrong and unnatural. So I kept the fantasy boys and men that I'd always had in my mind, and I allowed them to become sexual together. That was what seemed right to me.
I'm perfectly happy that other people do what is right for them. In fact, I even have a few straight friends. ;)
Quote from: Kvall on May 21, 2010, 03:11:08 PMYou have got to have some kind of repressed homo feelings going on. Either you're so disturbed that someone would see you as a lesbian that you're lashing out at all gay people in general, or perhaps you have some underlying attraction to men that you don't want to admit. Nobody is that vociferously against homosexuality unless they're hiding something. Maybe you're the trans guy version of all those Republican pundits who keep getting caught with gay affairs.
Well, maybe that's a stretch too far, but seriously man, you have issues.
Agreed.
Is a woman a woman because she has a vagina? Or is it because she lacks a penis? Is a man a man because he has a penis? Or is it because he lacks a vagina? The answer, in truth, is neither. A woman is a woman because she believes herself to be so. A man is a man because he believes himself to be so. And one who is something else is something else because they believe themselves to be so. You are what you are, not because of what's between your legs, but because of what you believe yourself to be.
Quote from: accord03 on May 21, 2010, 07:19:27 AM
I know gender and sexuality is different. And I don't understand how some FTM can be bi or gay? If you were attracted to males, wouldnt of you just stayed female.
If you are male and you like males as a male, why would you 'stay female'? You're not female to begin with. There's a big difference between liking guys as a guy and liking guys as a girl. Is a gay male the same thing as a straight female simply because they both are sexually attracted to men? No, they're not the same.
Quote from: accord03 on May 21, 2010, 07:30:40 AM
So, FTM who are bi or gay is attracted to two guys having sex? And not doing the straight way like pussy and penis?
I'm a gay FtM and I'm not attracted to 'two guys having sex' specifically as you put it, but rather I'm attracted to males. It's not just about the sex, it's about the physical and emotional attraction. Some FtMs, like myself, want their female anatomy to have nothing to do with sex for them, instead having their intercourse in other ways or with other tools. But some FtMs ARE comfortable with vaginal sex. But just because there's a penis and a vagina involved, doesn't mean it's 'straight' sex. It's still just as gay. Because a gay FtM is as male as their partner. And male + male = gay.
Quote from: accord03 on May 21, 2010, 08:00:56 AM
Yeah, I don't like gay sex. I think it's gross and I would never be friend a homosexual cause lesbians are butchy and gays are abnormal.
Bruce Bagemihl's research shows that homosexual behavior has been observed in close to 1500 species and is more than well documented for 500 of them. So... just curious but... how are gays abnormal? Homosexuality is quite natural, actually. Oh, and by the way? One of the most effeminate people I know is a lesbian. Not 'butchy' at all.
Stereotypes are bad. So is homophobia. :( Love and let love, man. Love and let love.
QuoteA gay FtM, like myself, isn't attracted to 'two guys having sex' specifically as you put it, but rather is attracted to males. It's not about the sex, it's about the physical and emotional attraction.
Uh, I have to say that FOR ME, the sex is a significant part of my attraction to men.
And while I'm here, I'm going to go all mod and ask that people dial it down a notch. No heated accusations, please. Let's keep it civil.
Quote from: Arch on May 21, 2010, 03:35:45 PM
Uh, I have to say that FOR ME, the sex is a significant part of my attraction to men.
Should've phrased that better in retrospect. Moreso... not about the manner in which the sex happens?
Quote from: MihaelKai on May 21, 2010, 03:37:35 PM
Should've phrased that better in retrospect.
Keep trying. :D
No, seriously, it can be hard to use words to describe feelings. That's why I like "I" statements. At least then I don't have to worry about the one person (or two or three or a thousand) who don't fit into my description; and if I'm inaccurate, I'm only inaccurate about me.
I have a better sense now of what you meant, but I'm still a little iffy. This is interesting, though. Care to keep going? Are you referring to your own feelings about your own anatomy, or something?
Quote from: M.Grimm on May 21, 2010, 01:47:15 PM
Forcing myself to stay female-bodied simply because I am attracted to males is what caused me to be trapped in a body I hate for so many years. If anything, it makes it worse because straight males are attracted to the elements of my body that I despise the most. Relationships are immaterial; my body is wrong. That is the point.
That said, I have no time to waste with homophobes. If two consenting adults are having sex, it's not yours nor anyone else's business. It in no way threatens you. Acting as if it is something you must concern yourself with is idiotic. Grow up and learn how to keep your nose out of other people's personal lives.
Thank you.
Jay
And PS to the original poster: not all ftms are guys with a vag.
Quote from: Arch on May 21, 2010, 03:49:20 PM
I have a better sense now of what you meant, but I'm still a little iffy. This is interesting, though. Care to keep going? Are you referring to your own feelings about your own anatomy, or something?
Hrm... Nothing to do with anatomy, really... Just that... it's not just about 'two guys having sex' but rather... 'being with a male as a male'? Whether that be in a sexual context or otherwise? I dunno. It's hard to explain. :laugh: Maybe I'm just nuts.
"staying female" has nothing to do with who we're attracted to. yeah, it would be a hell of alot easier to do that and be with a guy. Or even to be with a girl, cause I'm here to tell ya that being with a girl while transitioning is a mindscrew for most women, unless they're open minded. But try being with someone, a guy or girl or whatever, and knowing in the back of your mind that you're not screwing them with the right parts. That its all wrong. And if you're trans, you should know the hell it is to go about your day to day life in the wrong gender. I'm pansexual, so I don't consider gender in a person that I'm attracted to. But since I'm with a woman, its a straight relationship. If i were witha man, it would be gay.
I know for certain that my gf doesn't see me as a "man with a vag". If she did, I wouldn't be with her. It took trusting her immensely to even let her down there. I have a dick. That's that. She reminds me constantly that I'm just a boy to her. I am to me for sure, but I worry about confusing my partners. Cause I've had exs break down over that kind of stuff.
In the end, the chances of having less or more potential relationships has no impact on whether or not we transition. Honestly I said I'd rather stay single than not transition for my partner. I've been there, done that. It wasn't worth it to live for someone else.
If I wantedto be mean I could say that you and your girl being together is gay but i'm not that disrespectful. You're a homophobe and I really don't undersatnd why.
If you're ftm, referring to us in such a disrepsectful way is just....low.
Quote from: MihaelKai on May 21, 2010, 03:59:46 PM
Hrm... Nothing to do with anatomy, really... Just that... it's not just about 'two guys having sex' but rather... 'being with a male as a male'? Whether that be in a sexual context or otherwise? I dunno. It's hard to explain. :laugh: Maybe I'm just nuts.
No, this helps enormously. Thank you. So it's not so much that "it' isn't about sex; it's more that "it" isn't necessarily about sex or solely about sex--but sex can be a part of it. If that's the case, it sounds like what I was claiming for myself. (I originally mistyped "myself" as "myelf" and wondered whether that were more accurate for the pointy-eared crowd!)
Oh, boy. Myelf, yourelf, himelf, herelf. Ourelves. Yourelves. Themelves.
Okay... I don't really feel like reading the myriad responses to the original poster, particularly because I'm so perplexed by the OP's question in the first place.
So here's what I'm thinking: if you think that an FtM who is attracted to men should not transition, but rather remain a "female" so as to have better luck with men, then why shouldn't lesbians and gays simply transition in order to be straight? Wouldn't it make things so much easier?
This is a clear-cut case of homophobia. Please, dude... wake up.
SD
Quote from: M.Grimm on May 21, 2010, 01:47:15 PM
Forcing myself to stay female-bodied simply because I am attracted to males is what caused me to be trapped in a body I hate for so many years. If anything, it makes it worse because straight males are attracted to the elements of my body that I despise the most. Relationships are immaterial; my body is wrong. That is the point.
That said, I have no time to waste with homophobes. If two consenting adults are having sex, it's not yours nor anyone else's business. It in no way threatens you. Acting as if it is something you must concern yourself with is idiotic. Grow up and learn how to keep your nose out of other people's personal lives.
This.
I'm gay. I'm out. I'm proud. I make no apologies. I like men - I like being one, and I like being with one. If you have a problem with that, then I have a problem with you. Because it's that attitude among the online FTM community when I was first doing research in the '90s that kept me in the closet hating myself.
I've finally killed off my internalized homophobia and neither you nor anyone else will shame me into letting it back into my life.
Quote from: Arch on May 21, 2010, 04:05:37 PM
(I originally mistyped "myself" as "myelf" and wondered whether that were more accurate for the pointy-eared crowd!)
Oh, boy. Myelf, yourelf, himelf, herelf. Ourelves. Yourelves. Themelves.
Hah! Myelf! :laugh: I didn't know that you could conjugate elf. Bravo, sir!
And yay! Glad I could explain myself more properly for ya. :)
Quote from: zombiesarepeaceful on May 21, 2010, 04:04:36 PM
"staying female" has nothing to do with who we're attracted to.
We say this a lot, but the truth is...it kind of does. I'm wired for gay relationships - for being with guys
as a guy. I'm constitutionally incapable of having a 'normal' heterosexual relationship. I don't have what straight guys want. And they don't have what I want.
In bed, sure, it can work out, but out of bed...I need an equal partner and a symmetrical, male-male relationship. Straight guys need that male/female, complementary, yin/yang thing. It's not the same. I'm not just gay because I like dick - I'm gay because I like gay relationships.
R u guys talking to me cause iv never dated any one and the man with a vag thing is what someone said that i would be. I not saying that ftm's are male with vags im just saying that the ppl in my community think that way and thats what makes me uneasy about tellin ppl i like females. I have nothing against gays its just that all my friends tell me that if i say i like girls they wont be friends with me anymore. i have absolutly nothing wrong with gays but i thought i was homophopic beacuse i didnt want to lose all my friends if they see me as one so i am afraid that i am one. i could see myself in a relationship with a gay male or gay female because i dont think straight ppl would be attracted to me at least not in this town. i am defintly trans but ppl in my community dont see a ftm as male or mtf as female, which can be hard at times.
All I'm going to say is that we, as trans people, have been shunned by society for many years in the past and still are in the present. Many people look down on us, many friends and family members would abandon us knowing our trans status, and many people think we are "unnatural" and "disgusting". Knowing that, we should be respectful of everyone who, like us, has been unfairly shunned by society because of their preferences and their feelings. I find homophobia highly insulting, and it hits far too close to home. Many trans people are straight, yes, but in the 1970s, gay people were looked down upon as we are today, although we still don't suffer at society's hand the way they did. In fact, they put down the foundation for a more tolerant and accepting society. Without the gay community, we would surely be accepted in society even less. We live in a large and multifaceted world, and every individual has their own story. Why be so concerned about what other people are feeling, when their feelings don't hurt anyone? In my opinion, a trans person being homophobic is absolutely unacceptable, because there is a lot of transphobia in our world, and believe me, we are not that different after all.
After all, we are both in search of truth. Homosexuals, just like transsexuals, are simply seeking personal integrity and truth. That is one of the bravest and most commendable of things.
so am i homophopic? i like gays especially the ones on Will and Grace, its a good show, i have nothing against gays and what they do has nothing to do with me but i see myself as a straight male but society or my town would view me as a lesbo. I am afraid everyone will abandoned me and im having pretty scary feelings that in societies terms i might be lesbian, so i am afraid that i might be gay out of fear of losing everyone around me. My mom doesnt like the fact that im trans but she deals with it and if i told her i liked females she might just kick me out of the house. i thought if u were afraid to be gay then that was homophopic cause earlier the definiton was fear of gays or somethin like that. If all men were gay it be a nice world and i dont think there'd be as much drama, like if they replaced all women so u only had straight and gay men.
Quote from: mcalistershaun on May 21, 2010, 07:38:43 PM
so am i homophopic?
Doesn't sound to me like you're homophobic; you just want to be seen as you should be seen, yes?
Post Merge: May 21, 2010, 05:57:17 PM
Quote from: kyril on May 21, 2010, 04:39:48 PM
Because it's that attitude among the online FTM community when I was first doing research in the '90s that kept me in the closet hating myself.
Not just the FTM community but the professional community. When I first started researching all of this, I was reading that you wouldn't be allowed to transition if you were an FTM attracted to other men. Some of the literature I was reading was already out of date, but I didn't know that until later. Considering that the professional community and its transition requirements were inherently homophobic, I'm not so surprised that some FTM communities produced by that environment were homophobic.
Post Merge: May 21, 2010, 06:58:18 PM
Quote from: Sebastien on May 21, 2010, 04:09:53 PMSo here's what I'm thinking: if you think that an FtM who is attracted to men should not transition, but rather remain a "female" so as to have better luck with men, then why shouldn't lesbians and gays simply transition in order to be straight? Wouldn't it make things so much easier?
Your logic is impeccable.
Post Merge: May 21, 2010, 08:03:31 PM
Quote from: MihaelKai on May 21, 2010, 04:44:32 PM
Hah! Myelf! :laugh: I didn't know that you could conjugate elf. Bravo, sir!
Conjugation is one of my favorite pastimes. >:-)
Hmm. Technically, "elf" is not a verb. I elf, you elf, he/she/it elves...
I can only relate to it as someone viewed as a lesbian right now. I like straight women. I wouldn't be content with a lesbian. She'd physically appreciate me for something I feel so disconnected from. It would almost be like an amputee fetishist being crazed over me for a missing arm, but on some level, maybe more offensive. They're enjoying something that isn't a part of me, and in that sense, it's more like being sexually attracted to a diseased limb, and in that sense, it's almost offensive.
If this doesn't make sense, disregard.
now that i think of it i could be bi cause idk if im attracted to females all i know is that when i see a half naked female i get somewhat turned on but if there was someone just like Sean Hayes thats my type of person he plays Jack McFarland in Will and Grace, i like ppl that are hilarious and share the same interests, like knitting, planting flowers, watching horror films, but they gotta be hilarious and i think all gay guys have a good sense of humor maybe im a gay guy idk my sexuality is still in the making, ive never dated anyone.
Quote from: Arch on May 21, 2010, 08:53:39 PM
Not just the FTM community but the professional community. When I first started researching all of this, I was reading that you wouldn't be allowed to transition if you were an FTM attracted to other men. Some of the literature I was reading was already out of date, but I didn't know that until later. Considering that the professional community and its transition requirements were inherently homophobic, I'm not so surprised that some FTM communities produced by that environment were homophobic.
I suspect that a lot of this is due to what the medical and psychiatric community expects. I've met very "flaming" FTMs who were in guys (FTM or cis-gendered) as well as very straight guys as well. In order for some of the FTMs who didn't fit into the restrictive medical/psychiatric boxes to get care, they've had to lie. It seems harsh that someone is forced to go from one life lie to another just to get treatment or acceptance, even within our own community.
For me, as long as someone is living true to their heart and soul and is happy with that, then that is all that matters. What someone does in bed is their own thing -- just ensure you have safe fun >:-)
Any member of a minority group becoming intolerant of certain internal factions is I guess just another step in social evolution. Shows how far we've come, and maybe indicates we overshot the mark a bit..
Quote from: mcalistershaun on May 21, 2010, 07:38:43 PM
so am i homophopic? i like gays especially the ones on Will and Grace, its a good show, i have nothing against gays and what they do has nothing to do with me but i see myself as a straight male but society or my town would view me as a lesbo. I am afraid everyone will abandoned me and im having pretty scary feelings that in societies terms i might be lesbian, so i am afraid that i might be gay out of fear of losing everyone around me. My mom doesnt like the fact that im trans but she deals with it and if i told her i liked females she might just kick me out of the house. i thought if u were afraid to be gay then that was homophopic cause earlier the definiton was fear of gays or somethin like that. If all men were gay it be a nice world and i dont think there'd be as much drama, like if they replaced all women so u only had straight and gay men.
seems like you wouldn't win either way here.. either your community will see you as female and a lesbian if you're with a woman, or male and gay if you're with a man. either way you'd be gay, or if you like both, at least bisexual which many consider to be on the same level. as long as you can become comfortable with who you know yourself to be, who cares what other people think? are they living your life? if they're not, then why do you have to live your life to make them happy?
Quote from: Linus on May 21, 2010, 10:23:17 PM
In order for some of the FTMs who didn't fit into the restrictive medical/psychiatric boxes to get care, they've had to lie.
Hi, Linus. Haven't seen you in a while.
I was in a committed relationship with a man back then, and I'm a terrible liar (meaning I usually don't do it convincingly). So I saw no way to transition through the usual channels. A half-assed therapist would have seen right through me. I briefly considered self-medicating, but I had no idea how to go about it and would have been too scared anyway.
The bottom line, however, was my unwillingness to risk a great relationship. My partner would become visibly uncomfortable, sometimes hostile, whenever I talked about HRT or surgery. He was even uncomfortable when I "actively" dressed male (i.e., when I bound my top half) and wore my usual masculine clothing.
I was gay and he was straight. Now I'm gay and single, and he's straight and single. Despite my best efforts, the relationship fell apart anyway because I was lying to myself.
That I can do convincingly.
JakeDenver - To your question. I wasn't born a bio male so in my young days, I have been confused
like every other transexual out there. Yes, I was a born a female so I thought I had to like men and
I tried and convinced myself to like them but I never could. I was only attracted to 'girly girls' and
after awhile, I did some research and realised that I was trapped in the wrong body. Not to mention,
I always thought I was a boy till puberty hit and I tried to be something I'm not. My girlfriend has
always been straight and we were together before I even told her I feel like I'm in the wrong body.
I act and always dressed like a guy so even though, people didn't use male pronouns neither did
they referred to me as a lesbian.
It is a complete lie when people say they only date people for their inside. You must be somewhat
attracted to their physical apperance. Lust always come first before any other feelings. When you
meet people you don't see straight through them, you see their looks first.
M.Grimm - I never said it was my business but I was clearly stating how I see and feel about this.
I didn't point out a certain someone, I'm speaking my mind in general. I'm not saying anyone "You
must be straight". I'm just stating my opinion and how I feel around those type of people. I'm being
honest.
Arch - Like I said to JakeDenver, I have NEVER been treated like a lesbian. People may not have used
male pronouns on me because they didn't know how my reaction would be but they sure did/do treat me like a
guy. I see myself as a straight male and everyone around me does too. They forget what's in my trunk so I'm
far from being catergorized by anyone.
Kvall - Don't reply if you think it's a stupid arguement. Are you stupid? Just because I'm a transman, it doesn't
mean that I can't have my say on this matter. My transition isn't based on my attraction to woman, I'm a male
who's trapped in the wrong body so I'm transitioning for MYSELF. Sex and hand holding are both disturbing.
Happy? No, I don't have any repressed homosexual feelings. I see myself as a straight guy and why are you
acting like I have to be gay like you? I'm just having my say. Please, is this pissing you off cause you feel
uneasy about being attracted to a male cause you're an FTM who could of just stayed in the female body
and made your life so much easier?
Mihaelki - Thanks. Atleast you broke it down to my nicely and made me understand a fair bit.
Zombie - I've said this so many times. I am not gay neither is she. The way you said it made it seem like
I'm changing for her and not for myself. Complete lie. I am not doing this cause I'm scared it'll impact my
relationship whatsoever. It'll most likely impact on my relationship when I do transition. Funny uh? I have
plenty of girls all over me. There is so much to risk, you know? All these girls might stop approaching me
so don't go saying I'm doing this for some pussy. I could be who I am and still get these girls but I want to be
me and that's being in the right body.
;D
Quote from: accord03 on May 22, 2010, 12:06:09 AM
Yeah, I don't like gay sex. I think it's gross and I would never be friend a homosexual cause lesbians are butchy and gays are abnormal.
...
M.Grimm - I never said it was my business but I was clearly stating how I see and feel about this.
I didn't point out a certain someone, I'm speaking my mind in general. I'm not saying anyone "You
must be straight". I'm just stating my opinion and how I feel around those type of people. I'm being
honest.
...
Please, is this pissing you off cause you feel uneasy about being attracted to a male cause you're an FTM who could of just stayed in the female body and made your life so much easier?
You didn't point out a certain someone but you still saw fit to broad-brush gays and lesbians as, respectively, abnormal and butchy. And then this comment here: "made your life so much easier", are you serious? Are you ignorant with regards to body dysphoria and how miserable it can make people? How could it possibly make someone's life "easier" to remain miserable forever just so they can get laid?
I do think it's great that you're being honest. Just know that it makes it clear you have a LOT of growing up to do, mentally and empathically.
Just being honest and stating my opinion, here.
Don't worry I don't get offended easily ;)
You're saying I should grow up? Some people in here can't even take honesty. I guess little kids do tell the truth ::)
Quote from: accord03 on May 22, 2010, 12:06:09 AMSex and hand holding are both disturbing.
Happy? No, I don't have any repressed homosexual feelings. I see myself as a straight guy and why are you
acting like I have to be gay like you? I'm just having my say. Please, is this pissing you off cause you feel
uneasy about being attracted to a male cause you're an FTM who could of just stayed in the female body
and made your life so much easier?
See it's stuff like this that make you seem like you have repressed feelings. There's no way of knowing that you are unless I'm you, but this is the sort of thing people say when they're overcompensating for things, be aware of that.
Kvall isn't saying you should be a gay man, he has never even suggested that you should be. If you believe that transition is more than just for intimate relationships and sex, then you'd know why it isn't easier for a gay transman to just stay a woman. A straight relationship is a different dynamic from a gay relationship and if someone identifies as a man who is attracted to men, why would they want to be treated like a straight woman? That's not who they are, they're men, pure and simple, it's no different than wanting to be treated like a straight guy if you were in a relationship with a girl as opposed being labeled a lesbian. You aren't a lesbian, you're a straight man, it's the exact same concept just from a different end. I could easily tell you that you should just be a lesbian to make it easier on yourself, but we both know that's BS logic.
No one says you have to be gay, but I don't understand why you find it so gross and disturbing. I'm a straight ftm, I'm secure in my sexuality and I don't feel the need to be disgusted by this sort of thing. You have a right to an opinion and a say, but that doesn't make those opinions right, less ignorant or inoffencive. Honestly, anyone from the LGBT who finds any part of the LGBT gross, abnormal or wrong is a lot more offencive and ignorant to me than if a cisgender straight person said it. Why? Because they should know better. We might not have the same situations or problems but we're all under the same cause and have had similar injustices done towards us.
You're digging yourself a hole here, and I'm not trying to be rude or mean but I'm just trying to be real with you.
Lach - I respect what you just said. I asked this before when I started the thread and that's what I wanted to know and you broke it down to me here.
QuoteIf you believe that transition is more than just for intimate relationships and sex, then you'd know why it isn't easier for a gay transman to just stay a woman. A straight relationship is a different dynamic from a gay relationship and if someone identifies as a man who is attracted to men, why would they want to be treated like a straight woman? That's not who they are, they're men, pure and simple, it's no different than wanting to be treated like a straight guy if you were in a relationship with a girl as opposed being labeled a lesbian. You aren't a lesbian, you're a straight man,
I just wanted to know these FTM are only transitioning and being attracted to male cause they enjoy being gay and you explained it.
Many people can take honesty. What they don't want to take is someone being a small-minded jerk. Perhaps you need to take a step back and analyze which way you're coming across.