Has anyone had that feeling? and is it the estrogen acting up?? :-\
Yes, because despite being told on numerous occasions that I am pretty...there are days when i look in the mirror and all i see are flaws and I want to change them, and then I realise that i'm being over harsh and manage to shake myself out of it.
It's normal for any woman to think she needs work when she doesn't.
And it's normal for any man to think his d#ck, car, girl or pay-check could be bigger, better, sexier and sassier....
Quote from: Ariix on September 19, 2010, 02:18:29 PM
Has anyone had that feeling? and is it the estrogen acting up?? :-\
It's pretty normal. I feel the same way pretty constantly. If it helps any I think you're more female looking than most genetic females. I'd trade faces with you any day of the week.
Quote from: Ariix on September 19, 2010, 02:18:29 PM
Has anyone had that feeling? and is it the estrogen acting up?? :-\
Estrogen does not change bone structure. As you age identifying male markers will get more pronounced.
Before hrt I really didn't care how I looked and didn't really connect that what I saw in the mirror was me. Since starting transition and hrt I am now full of insecurities about my looks and could quite happily run into a plastic surgeons office screaming 'Change everything!!'. However, talk honestly with almost any woman (especialy my age) and they will say the same.
Ariix and Ayaname, you are both stunning and I honestly can't see what either of you would want to change (unless you have webbed feet or something >:-))
I went to a plastic surgeon for a consult. She asked what I wanted to talk to her about. I said: "My nose." She said: "Why?"
So I didn't get my nose done. :)
- Kate
Quote from: MillieB on September 19, 2010, 07:15:21 PM
Before hrt I really didn't care how I looked and didn't really connect that what I saw in the mirror was me. Since starting transition and hrt I am now full of insecurities about my looks and could quite happily run into a plastic surgeons office screaming 'Change everything!!'. However, talk honestly with almost any woman (especially my age) and they will say the same.
Ariix and Ayaname, you are both stunning and I honestly can't see what either of you would want to change (unless you have webbed feet or something >:-))
^^^^^^that.
and a little bit of this >>>>> My dad asked me if I think I'm insecure the other week and it's been playing on my mind ever since.. all I could say at the time was "good question". I hadn't noticed it creeping up on me but yeah I look in the mirror and think "yeah change that... that...and that.... oh that definitely....and .....that. done... oh wait that as well". Yet I got my FFS analysis back the other week and I was surprised how little they suggested 0_o
OMG yes! I feel that way often.
Quote from: Ayaname on September 19, 2010, 03:51:59 PM
It's pretty normal. I feel the same way pretty constantly. If it helps any I think you're more female looking than most genetic females. I'd trade faces with you any day of the week.
I think you're super pretty though! I love your face shape! and idk I love your nose too! You are both so pretty! I'm so jealous!
I know a gal here in town who wants FFS before anything. We all think she's super-attractive.
One day I asked her about it, and she started "dismantling" her face and showing me what she wanted to have done. When she called attention to specific features, I could see that they could be considered masculine. But even after that, I think she looks beautiful.
I was inclined to think that some trans women are more sensitive to their appearance than everybody else is. But then, this is true of non-trans women, too, as someone pointed out in this thread. So I guess you're just like other (American) women, regardless of background. (At least, I assume that you're American, since you say you're in NY).
If that's you in your avatar pic, you look pretty darned good to me.
I would think its pretty normal. I'm not yet into therapy, HRT, or even FFS. I do look pretty good, but feel like I'm not exactly what I want to look like. I don't even have that much of a bossing, but the only way I'll be satisfied is if I get FSS to do something. I think it is kind of a psychological confirmation that "I did everything possible" or something like that. This, even if there was nothing wrong in the first place. :)
Quote from: KimberlyJean on September 20, 2010, 12:31:21 AM
I think you're super pretty though! I love your face shape! and idk I love your nose too! You are both so pretty! I'm so jealous!
Thank you:3 However, my hands are in the way of my awful jaw line and from the side my nose sort of owns my face:(
I have gotten some compliments on it IRL though which always surprises me since my nose is basically shaped like this:
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But anyway, I'm sure I'm just as guilty of unwarranted jealousy as about 90% of the perfectly feminine looking girls on this site. Dysphoria can be a bitch sometimes. I'm sure if I looked exactly as I do now but was born as a genetic female I'd be less inclined to think of my features as masculine.
Quote from: Ayaname on September 20, 2010, 01:26:31 AM
Thank you:3 However, my hands are in the way of my awful jaw line and from the side my nose sort of owns my face:(
I have gotten some compliments on it IRL though which always surprises me since my nose is basically shaped like this:
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But anyway, I'm sure I'm just as guilty of unwarranted jealousy as about 90% of the perfectly feminine looking girls on this site. Dysphoria can be a bitch sometimes. I'm sure if I looked exactly as I do now but was born as a genetic female I'd be less inclined to think of my features as masculine.
I do think it's because we are trans. Look at Angelina Jolie, she has many masculine features but I think she's one of the sexiest women ever. Women with big jaws are gorgeous to me, my bestie is in LOVE with girls with big jaws haha. But pretty or not, I think you are, you still look all girl. If I saw you, doesn't matter how big your jaw is, I'd never think you were trans.
I'd say it's abnormal.. In much the same way that cisfemales often get unneeded surgery. I'd say it's mostly because they look in the mirror and can see the "old" them, regardless of any changes that may have occurred..
Quote from: fluffles on September 20, 2010, 01:19:26 AM
I would think its pretty normal. I'm not yet into therapy, HRT, or even FFS. I do look pretty good, but feel like I'm not exactly what I want to look like. I don't even have that much of a bossing, but the only way I'll be satisfied is if I get FSS to do something. I think it is kind of a psychological confirmation that "I did everything possible" or something like that. This, even if there was nothing wrong in the first place. :)
So you are willing to run the risk of infection, complications with anaesthesia, sub-par results and all the other risks of surgery for no real reason? Your nuts..
Quote from: Ayaname on September 20, 2010, 01:26:31 AMI have gotten some compliments on it IRL though which always surprises me since my nose is basically shaped like this:
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But anyway, I'm sure I'm just as guilty of unwarranted jealousy as about 90% of the perfectly feminine looking girls on this site. Dysphoria can be a bitch sometimes. I'm sure if I looked exactly as I do now but was born as a genetic female I'd be less inclined to think of my features as masculine.
Hehe my nose is exactly the same my nose is also REALLY big I don't know if I would change it tho :/ I'm however more upset about my forehead and tall chin and I would fix those :( sadly FFS is well beyond my price range.
Would I like to have, say, Keira Knightley's looks? You bet I would. Would I ever do it though? No way.
For a start I wouldn't be me if I did. My face may not be an oil painting, but it has gotten me through life without any adverse comments and in all that time I've kind of gotten used to it. I can see some masculine features in there, I can also see some feminine ones too. It's a mish-mash - but then I look around me at the women I see in the street and I realise that I am a lot better off than many of them.
You want to see high and ridged foreheads? Then look HONESTLY down your local high street at the women, and this time don't cheat by only looking at the pretty ones. If you look at ALL of them you will see some right old neanderthal skulls, and they are cis women.
Jaws? Again look honestly. Many women have jaws like prize fighters. Same goes for noses, and indeed any other physical attribute that you may single out, big frame, small hips, excessive height, big feet, adams apple, there are cis women out there with all of them, and when you actually force yourself to notice them in surprising numbers too.
So the real question is WHY? Why do you want to do this? Is it because you think that you don't "pass" (I hate that word) and you believe that if you fix the flaws that you see that you will? If so THINK AGAIN. I have seen many many transwomen go though years of endless surgeries and they STILL don't "pass" at all. They look like bloody film stars and yet they get read in seconds - yet the woman down Fore Street with the neanderthal skull, big nose and square jaw doesn't. Ergo "passing" actually has very little to do with how we look, beyond a certain point.
If you genuinely want to change your face because YOU don't like the way you look then fine. Like SRS you must do it for you and you alone, but don't do it with any illusion that it will change the way anyone else will look at you because I can assure you, based on many many observations, that it almost certainly won't.
It's perfectly normal to hate the imperfections that you see in yourself. The important thing is not to go of chasing rainbows. Surgery can do wonders, but perfection isn't on offer yet, and if you do go down that road it is very easy to become an operations junkie. The sort who is forever going off having a little nip here and a little tuck there. That is both costly and ultimately futile. Such people also often end up being cruelly laughed at behind their backs for their obvious obsession.
Finally if you want romance in your life you will almost certainly find that easier if you can learn to compromise both with yourself and with others than you will by shooting for perfection. One of the things that Alison and I both respected in each other when we met is that we were both firmly of the opinion that the SRS was the only operation that we were going to have. We both knew we had faults, but we decided to live with them in the interests of stability. We have both bent that resolve slightly, Alison by having a BA and I by having a stage 2 to my SRS, although that was partly for medical reasons, but the principle stands. Learning to compromise and accept our respective flaws has kept us together for 22 years.
So my two cents worth. Yes it is perfectly normal to have insecurities about how you look, but no it is generally not a good idea to go chasing those dreams unless you have very deep pockets and are prepared for a lot of disappointment.
Like I say, it is just my opinion - and before anyone jumps on me, yes I know there are people who can and do benefit, but I sincerely think that they are actually in the minority.
I'm 12 days away from a nose job. I'll provide before and after pix and feelings.
I'd just like to say that it's normal for women, in modern Western culture, to believe they need plastic surgery when they don't. Being trans may give you a particularly unique and insidious way of seeing and categorizing your "flaws," and a more acceptable rationale for having them surgically corrected, but the beauty ideal and the promise of surgical quick-fixes affect all women, cis and trans. You'd be hard-pressed to find a woman who's never considered plastic surgery.
But "normal" doesn't mean "healthy."
(It is of course perfectly reasonable and healthy to want surgeries and medical procedures to make your body congruent with your brain's body map. And it's reasonable and healthy to want whatever procedures might be needed to make it so that your true self is recognizable to others - which for some women might mean FFS. Pursuing the unattainable feminine beauty ideal through surgery, though, can be really unhealthy. Only you know where the line is between necessary reconstructive surgeries and unhealthy pursuit of the unattainable feminine beauty ideal.)
a certain amount of FFS would be healthy if it made the person happier. It's only unhealthy when it's taken to the extreme of The Bride of Wildenstein.
Quote from: Ayaname on September 20, 2010, 01:26:31 AM
I have gotten some compliments on it IRL though which always surprises me since my nose is basically shaped like this:
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Much the same as mine was, honey. Last December a doctor changed that for me. I had some real medical problems with mine, and did cosmetic stuff while I was at it. But listen, this is not about what is right and wrong. What makes you happy?
Sure, I'd love to be able to afford a lot of expensive plastic surgury. Still, I have a terminal illness that precedes my wanting elective procedures currently. I thank God for the time I'm here ...... ellen
I just want to be able to go places without having makeup on and not be called sir because of my face. HRT has improved that a bit but i will need FFS to make my desired goal.
I too think u r beautiful. For u now, I would wait a while...Myself, I am definintely wanting it.
When u reach 50 as I am, I really would love it. But for now, I am working hard on laser and whatever else needed to get rid on my facial hair...baby steps I guess...
Quote from: kelly_aus on September 20, 2010, 02:03:31 AM
Quote from: flufflesI would think its pretty normal. I'm not yet into therapy, HRT, or even FFS. I do look pretty good, but feel like I'm not exactly what I want to look like. I don't even have that much of a bossing, but the only way I'll be satisfied is if I get FSS to do something. I think it is kind of a psychological confirmation that "I did everything possible" or something like that. This, even if there was nothing wrong in the first place.
So you are willing to run the risk of infection, complications with anaesthesia, sub-par results and all the other risks of surgery for no real reason? Your nuts..
Yes, I probably am. ;)
FFS doesn't necessarily mean completely butchering the face. Sometimes it's just rhinoplasty, blepharoplasty, and maybe jaw contouring. Well, it's the little things that make you happy. One may be perfectly fine, but for some people transitioning into another life would be much easier with little tweaks. Some even like to look a little different from their former life. If it makes a person happy, and it not something that is life threatening, then no reason why not to. :)
Quote from: Ariix on September 19, 2010, 02:18:29 PM
Has anyone had that feeling? and is it the estrogen acting up?? :-\
I am getting FFS. I look ok, but just need to fix a few things here and there. So i decided to do it, probably within 2 years. I am still self conscious about my looks, even though the longer I am on HRT the less days i feel "I look like a guy", I still want to never feel like that, and FFS will help.
Quote from: rejennyrated on September 20, 2010, 03:39:30 AM
I have seen many many transwomen go though years of endless surgeries and they STILL don't "pass" at all.
They do all these surgeries because they want to MUL-TEE-PASS! (sorry... :) )
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Finally if you want romance in your life you will almost certainly find that easier if you can learn to compromise both with yourself and with others
This is very important, the best advice I've read here so far. Life is not about correcting a brow bossing, it's about loving other people, including their faults. You can't love others, and not even yourself, if you don't compromise. Chasing perfection has nothing to do with love, it's an obsession. And I consider it very strange that it was Ariix, of all people, who started this topic as I keep bumping into comments in various threads, praising her looks. I think it's not the estrogen acting up, I think it's you. Estrogen in fact, should do the opposite. (I don't know you Ariix, I might be completely wrong of course and I don't want to insult you or anybody else here.)
The thing is, if you want to correct something because YOU think it's imperfect, you're walking the wrong road. If others tell you or give you unmistakable signs :) that there is indeed some problem, only then you should go ahead and fix it. The problem with the first approach is that if you're not satisfied with yourself, you never will be, ever. And besides, you can never get rid of your old image of yourself, no matter how many surgeries you have, because that image is imprinted in your brain. This is especially true if you're TS and had to spend many decades with a face belonging to the opposite sex. I'm not the least surprised if one wants to get rid of their memories entirely, but it is not the right way I think, we got to learn to accept some things in life.
I liked Kate's post about the surgeon who told her "Why?" :) Reminded me of the case when a few weeks ago I was at a consultation and I told the doc that I want to correct the huge gummy smile I have. His immediate response was "Will you smile more after it's done?" and I could only reply with a short "No." - but I smiled while I was saying this :) So he was right of course, no doubt about that, but I'll do it anyway because I was regularly mocked during all my childhood years about my looks so I know I need to do something about it. And considering what I had to go through with that face, I know the psychological effects -if it's successful- will hugely outmeasure the physical. I know I'll cry of relief when I'm finally through this and if I really will, then it was worth it.
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it is very easy to become an operations junkie
hey I'm one of them! :) ahh just kidding. Though if I have some problems and surgery is an option to fix that, I'm not the one who used to hesitate. Guess I must be a bit stupid, dunno :) But what I've had so far were mostly caused by sports injuries (sports can be a bit self-destructive, you know) and I've never yet done anything about my looks. The reason is I'm afraid that after a few surgeries, one morning I look into the mirror and I won't recognize the face I see. That would frighten me to death, probably. I've seen a movie about this, it's called Time by Kim Ki-duk. It was depressing, to say the least. I'd make it a mandatory requirement for everyone who wants to undergo surgery, to watch it. After seeing, they'd think twice before doing it :)
I only want to do the minimal amount of stuff, only what is definitely needed, because I still want to look like myself. The fact is, I'm satisfied with my face; others aren't :)
g
Quote from: Izumi on September 20, 2010, 12:20:49 PM
I am getting FFS. I look ok, but just need to fix a few things here and there. So i decided to do it, probably within 2 years. I am still self conscious about my looks, even though the longer I am on HRT the less days i feel "I look like a guy", I still want to never feel like that, and FFS will help.
What??? To fix what? You're absolutely gorgeous. I'm totally scandalized. >:(
Women! Never satisfied. :laugh: :icon_no:
I get told all the time that I don't need anything done, but I still want to do a little bit for myself. I can't really explain it either. I guess I want to look mostly the same, but just different enough that it helps with my mental hurdles.
Well, that and I hate my nose ;)
Any type of facial surgery seems to be common in my family... heck, my grandma does them from time to time! The one thing though that's constant is that girls (GGs, MtFs) seem to have an inclination for facial procedures to look good. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I don't think it matters if you're a MtF. If you think like a girl, then chances are you might think that you need some sort of facial surgery and that's fine. My $0.02 :)
Hi there,
Yeah, wanting facial surgery is normal because we seek to be seen as female. Saying that however does not mean that we need facial surgery because often its all in the mind. I have often thought about ffs and yet everyone who knows my past tells me I'm crazy and I don't need it. I've even been called attractive last week, I had to laugh to myself because that would be the last word I would use to describe myself. We often don't see ourselves the way others see us and so we seek to alter the things that we think need altering. We look in the mirror and still see the man (that still crosses my mind sometimes). I have also heard that this is still the case when some people have had ffs, they look in the mirror and still see the man.
Like others have said, there are many cis gendered females out there that look more male than we do. I have often thought when I've seen females like this and have been convinced they were MtF and yet when I've spoken to them I am convinced otherwise.
So what is the answer, well I suppose there isn't any definitive answer. In the end you have to go with what you think is best for you to be happy but ffs may still not make you happy. If I were to really analyse my own feelings I would say it is more to do with loving yourself and self acceptance after a life time of gender dysphoric feelings. To let go of the baggage and to live life. Starting by loving yourself for who you are, unique and special, there is after all, only one you.
Stardust