I was just wondering... if I ever decided I wanted to change myself back into a female (would only decide to do this for religious reasons) would I still grow hair everywhere or would that stop once I stop taking T? And would there be any health risks if I stopped taking T?
I know my voice would be at the level it dropped to, fat distribution would change back to female. I'm assuming the clit would not grow anymore, that it would be as big as it grew and that would be it, it wouldn't grow anymore.
From what I understand, the hair you grew will stay but may get thinner. But I suppose if one really had to go back, you could do what the women do and get electrolysis.
If you've had the ovaries taken out, and you stop T, you may have to take estrogen to avoid osteoporosis (hey, I spelled it right!)
Thanks for the replies. I feel more comfortable knowing I can go back (even though my endo doctor said it was a one way deal) in case my religious issue get in the way.
One other question I forgot to ask... does your face go back to how it was before you started T or does it stay the same?
Like the Admin said, it may get lighter/thinner, but it won't go away. You'd have to get it removed.
Quote from: Dominick_81 on January 04, 2011, 09:43:02 PM
Thanks for the replies. I feel more comfortable knowing I can go back (even though my endo doctor said it was a one way deal) in case my religious issue get in the way.
One other question I forgot to ask... does your face go back to how it was before you started T or does it stay the same?
It would partially go back to how it was pre-T. Fat will redistribute, so you should get feminine roundness of features back. If you're on it long enough that your bone structure is actually altered, that wouldn't be reversible. You could still look female again, though, and if you weren't on T long before you decided it wasn't right (maybe a month or two), I think facial changes are fully reversible.
Quote from: Dominick_81 on January 04, 2011, 09:43:02 PM
Thanks for the replies. I feel more comfortable knowing I can go back (even though my endo doctor said it was a one way deal) in case my religious issue get in the way.
One other question I forgot to ask... does your face go back to how it was before you started T or does it stay the same?
Depends. I don't know your age and it's not something we want younger members to disclose, but if you're still going through puberty, it's a whole nother ball game. Otherwise I assume that any changes having to do with muscle or fat will gradually go back. But nothing's guaranteed. I don't think there are enough trans men who went back for any reliable studies.
But I'd say you're going to end up with some more masculine features than the average woman. Depending on genetics or general looks, it could affect your ability to pass as female in the future. The voice is probably the most important consideration there. It doesn't go back. And you can't really predict how deep it's going to get. I've heard some guys sounding like Barry White afterward.
And of course any surgeries you had are permanent.
But none of that suggests you couldn't go back to living as female. Just that there's going to be permanent changes. And depending on how long you were on T, you may have to work at it just like trans women do.
However, if you're already considering going back to female, you should give this a lot of thought before going forward.
Living as female will certainly be easier without going through male puberty. And like I said earlier, there are no guarantees. It simply hasn't been studied enough.
Quote from: Forum Admin on January 04, 2011, 10:05:09 PM
However, if you're already considering going back to female, you should give this a lot of thought before going forward.
I'd say the same. I guess that's something you have to consider, it's always a possibility, you never know, etc.
But if it worries you is best to think a lot before making any changes.
Quote from: Nikolai_S on January 04, 2011, 09:59:37 PM
It would partially go back to how it was pre-T. Fat will redistribute, so you should get feminine roundness of features back. If you're on it long enough that your bone structure is actually altered, that wouldn't be reversible. You could still look female again, though, and if you weren't on T long before you decided it wasn't right (maybe a month or two), I think facial changes are fully reversible.
Thanks.
Quote from: Forum Admin on January 04, 2011, 10:05:09 PM
Depends. I don't know your age and it's not something we want younger members to disclose, but if you're still going through puberty, it's a whole nother ball game. Otherwise I assume that any changes having to do with muscle or fat will gradually go back. But nothing's guaranteed. I don't think there are enough trans men who went back for any reliable studies.
But I'd say you're going to end up with some more masculine features than the average woman. Depending on genetics or general looks, it could affect your ability to pass as female in the future. The voice is probably the most important consideration there. It doesn't go back. And you can't really predict how deep it's going to get. I've heard some guys sounding like Barry White afterward.
And of course any surgeries you had are permanent.
But none of that suggests you couldn't go back to living as female. Just that there's going to be permanent changes. And depending on how long you were on T, you may have to work at it just like trans women do.
However, if you're already considering going back to female, you should give this a lot of thought before going forward.
Living as female will certainly be easier without going through male puberty. And like I said earlier, there are no guarantees. It simply hasn't been studied enough.
I'm 29. When I was dropping off my prescription today and them telling me the prices and thinking I wasn't gunna be able to afford this, I immediately felt trapped. I couldn't stand the feeling of knowing I would be trapped in this female body. I wanted to cry. But I can afford it.
I'm doing the shots now, but if after one shot, would I be able to stop T? I ask b/c I don't know if I'm going to be able to handle the shots as I am terrified of needles. If it's too painful and I can't handle it, I'm not getting a second shot done. And then it I go back to the fear of being trapped in a female body, which I do not want.
Quote from: Marcelo Caetano on January 04, 2011, 10:28:32 PM
I'd say the same. I guess that's something you have to consider, it's always a possibility, you never know, etc.
But if it worries you is best to think a lot before making any changes.
But If I had the comfort in knowing I can change myself back into a female I can go through with it. If I don't have that comfort it will be harder for me to go on T.
Quote from: Dominick_81 on January 04, 2011, 10:32:42 PM
But If I had the comfort in knowing I can change myself back into a female I can go through with it. If I don't have that comfort it will be harder for me to go on T.
I know. I understand that, there's always so much doubt and second guessing, and worrying about ending up trapped as a guy as much as you were trapped as a girl. I'm sorry you're having a hard time with this decision, man, I know what that's like. But with a statement like this, I'd recommend waiting. Just a little longer. The forums are filled with your fears, things you don't want on T, all of your questioning. I know it's hard to stay in a female body, sometimes a week feels like a year. But in many ways, you still seem very uncertain. I'd love to tell you everything will be great on T, and you would never regret it. But I don't know you... and you don't seem to know yourself well enough to have complete confidence now.
I was at that point, wanting to be able to choose either direction at any point, because I was so terrified of being stuck. But I also waited for hormones then. It would have been a mistake for me to continue with so many doubts and fears. For me, I know T is right because the comfort is in knowing some things can't go back to how they were. For me, I would rather be dead than live the rest of my life as I was. If my dysphoria was much lesser, I would go with the comparatively easy route of staying female rather than facing potentially negative health effects of T, not to mention the revulsion much of society has for trans people. Also... without the comfort of knowing you could go back to female it would be "harder" for you to go on T? The truth is, no one can make the reassurance that you could return to being female. And if it's already hard for you even with that reassurance, it might be better to wait. You're the only person who can make the decision, obviously, since I could be completely wrong about you. And if you're sure this is what you want and that you can accept potentially irreversibly changes, great. But I have to be honest, since hormones are such a major decision to make. From what I've seen on the forums, I'd recommend you think very seriously before going ahead with hormones now. At least wait a few more weeks to make that decision.
Well, there is one fact there. You will have permanent male changes. Even a week on T can do that (mostly clit growth). Voice starts shortly after. And I, for example, would need I don't know how many hours (and how many dollars) of electrolysis (I'm blonde/red so no laser) to get rid of a full beard and body hair. The beard was only a few months in. And who wants to go through that just to go back to their original body?
The clit growth is usually the first change, the voice follows shortly after and both are things that really are irreversible. The beard at least you could burn off.
If you are not sure, don't do it!
The one thing I'm sure of is that I don't want to be in this female body. When I think about the fact of not being male it upsets me. I feel like I've waited so long, I just don't want to wait anymore, I just want to get on with it. I know I'll never get over my religious issues, they will always be there. My other concerns/fears with T is something I'm gunna have to learn to live with. so I guess I just got to make a choice and live with it. If I look hideous on T, I can always stay home. But the trans guys I've seen all look good on T. It's changed their face, but they all still looked really good.
Well, the first change you're going to get is the one you don't want downstairs. We don't have much of a window (actually there's no window) between our first shot and the changes. T can't really be used as a wait and see diagnostic tool. The permanent changes are the ones that happen first.
You know you don't want to be in a female body, yet you want to ensure you can go back to one. You should stop and sort this out first. Do you really want this? You won't be able to reverse the first changes to happen. You mentioned you really don't want clit growth, but it's the first change you'll probably get.
You don't have to be in a rush just because you got the script. You can stop and think about it.
It all goes back to religion for me. That would be the reason I would change myself back to female.
I just wish God would tell me what to do. He could if he wanted to, right? I just wonder why he isn't.
As long as the downstairs growth doesn't hurt, doesn't feel any different down their then how it feels now, doesn't feel uncomfortable, I can become okay with it.
My mom's a Presbyterian minister and my dad trained to be a Catholic priest. Neither of them believe I'm going to hell for transitioning. There is no logical reason you would go to hell when you are hurting no one and following your heart. There are plenty of resources out there for trans people who are religious, you just have to do a little searching. If that's what's holding you back, I don't think you have reason to worry. More concerning is your personal reaction to T changes.
Downstairs growth is usually somewhat uncomfortable. About 3 days after T my dick became hypersensitive, painful when it rubbed against anything. Then it started growing. Stayed uncomfortable for a few days, stopped after it doubled in size. Just a few days ago it was hypersensitive again, and actively sore. It does feel different, though it won't remain so sensitive forever. It is one of the irreversible changes.
Quote from: Dominick_81 on January 05, 2011, 12:10:20 AM
I just wish God would tell me what to do. He could if he wanted to, right? I just wonder why he isn't.
If he's not saying yay or nay, then maybe he's leaving the decision up to you?
Quote from: Nikolai_S on January 05, 2011, 12:17:00 AM
My mom's a Presbyterian minister and my dad trained to be a Catholic priest. Neither of them believe I'm going to hell for transitioning. There is no logical reason you would go to hell when you are hurting no one and following your heart. There are plenty of resources out there for trans people who are religious, you just have to do a little searching. If that's what's holding you back, I don't think you have reason to worry. More concerning is your personal reaction to T changes.
Downstairs growth is usually somewhat uncomfortable. About 3 days after T my dick became hypersensitive, painful when it rubbed against anything. Then it started growing. Stayed uncomfortable for a few days, stopped after it doubled in size. Just a few days ago it was hypersensitive again, and actively sore. It does feel different, though it won't remain so sensitive forever. It is one of the irreversible changes.
That makes me feel better about my religious issues and not going to hell. Thanks. :)
Now I gota get pass the clit growth, and from what your saying, the uncomfortableness and pain scares me from going on T. I just don't want to feel anything down there. I just want it to feel the way it feels now. No pain, no uncomfortableness. But this differs from person to person, so is it possible that I may not feel any pain or uncomfortableness? Or will there be pain and uncomfortableness no matter what?
Quote from: jmaxley on January 05, 2011, 12:21:58 AM
If he's not saying yay or nay, then maybe he's leaving the decision up to you?
Maybe. I just don't want to make the decision. I want God to do it for me.
Well Dominick, I can tell you that after about 19 months on T, I don't feel it at all (unless I touch it/clean it).
There is nothing specific in the Bible about transgender issues. But a few passages seem to suggest that body parts and gender variant people are no big deal. You're told to pluck out an eye or remove a hand it it makes you sin. This seems to suggest that body modification isn't a big deal. And there passages where a eunuch is exalted and welcomed to heaven.
The one passage seemingly against crossdressing seems to speak specifically to practices of enemies to the Hebrews and the passage about homosexuality seems to be more specific to homosexual rape than homosexuality itself.
I'm sure others more well versed in the Bible can give better examples.
I'd be interested to know what religious reasons you feel there are for not transitioning.
If anyone is trying to guilt trip you by saying that God wanted you you be a girl, just remember He also wanted some people to be born with horrific defects in that case. Babies are born with painful deformities on a regular basis, are they denied the treatment they need to live a normal life? Would anyone accuse them of going against the will of God, that they just had to accept it's how God wanted them to be?
How are you defiling yourself? You aren't killing anyone, you aren't abusing anyone. You are simply taking what you have and making it a slightly different shape.
Religious dogma is a form of abuse and control. Make sure any religious feelings you have are connected to God, not other people's idea of what you should be doing.
If you have any real doubts about T then just don't take it, either wait until you are absolutely sure or just simply don't take it.
You will never look exactly as you did pre T if you decide to take it for a while and then stop.
Maybe you're just not ready to transition just yet. Perhaps you need to be at the point where staying as you are is going to cause you more pain than the thought of transitioning. You say you don't like the way you are now in female form - what have you got to lose in transitioning?! If you don't like something - change it, you can't change it, change your attitude. Maybe natural transition is for you at the moment? Maybe just top surgery if that's what you want? There is no one way to transition.
As for the religious stuff - I'm a Roman Catholic (not really practicing :-\). My father still goes to church every week. He has had no problem accepting me and my decision to transition (I'm lucky I know) and not once has he thrown God in my face. God made us all in His own image - that means I am exactly the person I am supposed to be - transsexuality and all. When the opportunity to medically transition was presented to me I saw it a God's way of saying - well, there's always option B... I obviously wasn't happy with option A! He gives you what you need, at the right time, to do what you need to do. I have never once thought for a second the God I learned of as a child would punish me for being myself, the person He created. My father taught me trust that if I fall God would be there to catch me - no matter what, NO MATTER WHAT. I will stand in front of Him on that last day, arms open, exhausted saying - I used everything you gave me...
With regard to the genital growth - for me anyways, it didn't hurt or feel terribly uncomfortable at all. I too didn't want it before I started T - I wanted little to nothing to do with my downstairs area before I started T.. Not even a passing glance - I hated the thought of touching it, even just dressing or showering!! I made a pros and cons list about T.. This was obviously a con for me but the thought of not taking T was much more distressing and scary than the changes T MIGHT bring (as everyone is different). It's like some guys get a full beard - some after years on T are lucky to grow a mo...
Changing your attitude and the way you think of yourself really helps accepting the changes you're not so thrilled about.. At first I didn't want any body hair - I was pretty hairless to begin with and I liked it that way.. I now have hair all over my stomach, legs and thighs, up my chest and my neck and am eagerly awaiting it to fill in on my arms!!! I find myself wanting it because to me - it's manly! I will not be happy with back or shoulder hair but that's another story..
At first it was hard to see these things happening, now I can't imagine what I looked like before. Photos are like looking at someone else, a sister who's no longer here. Initially I thought I'd just look like a woman with excess body hair, facial hair and a deep voice, I thought no one is taking me seriously - they're just saying "he" to be polite, I'm not a "real man"... But as I changed with the T, including emotionally, I began to see myself as a man. And it got easier to accept that like any other man gone through puberty - I developed body and facial hair, my face changed and became more angular, my voice deepened and my dick grew!
I don't think of any part of me as female. The breast tissue encasing my pecs and chest is not mine - and when it is removed later this year everyone else will see what I can. The same for my genitals - no I don't have testicles and my dick is just surrounded by extra tissue and its not as big as what society considers "normal" - but I hate the thought of being normal anyways ;) And they're making leaps and bounds in bottom surgery - I've seen some really good results. One day I will have the dick I want (and I'll get to choose it ;D) until then my lil fella is just right and for whatever else I or anyone else wants - there's plenty to choose from!!
Sorry.. I know this is more like my 20c rather than just my 2...
Quote from: Dominick_81 on January 04, 2011, 09:43:02 PM
Thanks for the replies. I feel more comfortable knowing I can go back (even though my endo doctor said it was a one way deal) in case my religious issue get in the way.
Seems to me that most religious people of that kind would tend to regard any left over effects as something to be proud of. They've walked with the devil and survived, have the scars to prove it.
I'm just going to state the obvious here and say that if you think you are going to want to change back you shouldn't do it in the first place!
Messing with your body and hormones like that will have adverse consequences on your health and longevity. Hormones are an absolute last resort and should NEVER be taken lightly
Quote from: Forum Admin on January 05, 2011, 01:38:05 AM
Well Dominick, I can tell you that after about 19 months on T, I don't feel it at all (unless I touch it/clean it).
There is nothing specific in the Bible about transgender issues. But a few passages seem to suggest that body parts and gender variant people are no big deal. You're told to pluck out an eye or remove a hand it it makes you sin. This seems to suggest that body modification isn't a big deal. And there passages where a eunuch is exalted and welcomed to heaven.
The one passage seemingly against crossdressing seems to speak specifically to practices of enemies to the Hebrews and the passage about homosexuality seems to be more specific to homosexual rape than homosexuality itself.
I'm sure others more well versed in the Bible can give better examples.
Saying you can't feel it makes me feel better. How does it feel in hot water? Does it hurt? I like to take hot baths. (I'm more of a bath person than a shower person)
Quote from: JohnR on January 05, 2011, 04:01:33 AM
I'd be interested to know what religious reasons you feel there are for not transitioning.
If anyone is trying to guilt trip you by saying that God wanted you you be a girl, just remember He also wanted some people to be born with horrific defects in that case. Babies are born with painful deformities on a regular basis, are they denied the treatment they need to live a normal life? Would anyone accuse them of going against the will of God, that they just had to accept it's how God wanted them to be?
How are you defiling yourself? You aren't killing anyone, you aren't abusing anyone. You are simply taking what you have and making it a slightly different shape.
Religious dogma is a form of abuse and control. Make sure any religious feelings you have are connected to God, not other people's idea of what you should be doing.
If you have any real doubts about T then just don't take it, either wait until you are absolutely sure or just simply don't take it.
You will never look exactly as you did pre T if you decide to take it for a while and then stop.
My religious issues would be that I would be doing something wrong in the eyes of God. My grandmother keeps telling me God made me a girl that I wouldn't be happy as male, that God does not want me to change myself. I think my grandmother telling me that God does not want me to change myself upsets and frustrates me. That's how I go back to the religion thing, b/c my grandmother keeps telling me it's not right and that God doesn't want me to do this. I'll know I'll never get my grandmother to change her religious views or my mother either, but the guilt that my grandmother puts on me about God, makes me not want to go through with it. I'm trying to accept the fact I'll never get the support I'm looking for.
My grandmother told me that God didn't do this or make babies with defects, they just happens, but God didn't do it, b/c I asked her about stuff like that about babies being born with 2 faces or three arms, ect... I don't believe God would do this to people, it would be cruel, don't ya think? It just happens.
I think of the bible and when God cured a blind man... Now if God wanted the man to be blind he would have left him blind, but he he didn't, he cured him, he gave him sight so he could see. So God didn't make us like this, or anyone with birth defects, it just happens. So I guess I could see it as correcting a birth defect, which I do see it as, but my grandmother says it's not.
Quote from: Squirrel698 on January 05, 2011, 11:49:30 AM
I'm just going to state the obvious here and say that if you think you are going to want to change back you shouldn't do it in the first place!
Messing with your body and hormones like that will have adverse consequences on your health and longevity. Hormones are an absolute last resort and should NEVER be taken lightly
I know I would never want to go back, I'm afraid the guilt would force me back.
My grandmothers religious views are so strong that it makes me feel guilty. But she never said I would go to hell and believes I won't. But her strong opinions makes me feel so guilty.
Quote from: spacial on January 05, 2011, 08:54:51 AM
Seems to me that most religious people of that kind would tend to regard any left over effects as something to be proud of. They've walked with the devil and survived, have the scars to prove it.
I'm not sure what you mean... proud to have left over female parts?
I'll start this with
These are my opinions. Please don't take them offensively because it's not how they are meant. Everything is your choice so do not let me stop you. I support you here whether you choose to start or not.I've been watching this for a few days and I have to say I agree with this
Quote from: Squirrel698 on January 05, 2011, 11:49:30 AM
I'm just going to state the obvious here and say that if you think you are going to want to change back you shouldn't do it in the first place!
Messing with your body and hormones like that will have adverse consequences on your health and longevity. Hormones are an absolute last resort and should NEVER be taken lightly
It is a do or it's going to be a horrible life thing. I second the if your already wandering about de-transitioning (even for religious reasons) you might should take more time to consider it all. Hormones for me was a situation of while yes I was afraid of the pain and afraid of needles it was worth it to not have to live with this body anymore. I reached the point where I could not be happy living "in between" (no offense meant that's just how I felt it was in my case). I knew that in the end my grandmother may never talk to me again, would try to convince me to look to God and change my ways, and that my dating life would get harder. That last one though I don't agree with entirely because I'm not comfortable with what I have so either way my dating life is hard. Since starting T I'm already getting slightly more comfortable with it all. T changes many things and although I can't say 100% those things won't change back to how they were before I can't say that they will either. Good luck with everything man.
Quote from: Andrew Scott on January 05, 2011, 01:48:44 PM
I'll start this with These are my opinions. Please don't take them offensively because it's not how they are meant. Everything is your choice so do not let me stop you. I support you here whether you choose to start or not.I've been watching this for a few days and I have to say I agree with this
It is a do or it's going to be a horrible life thing. I second the if your already wandering about de-transitioning (even for religious reasons) you might should take more time to consider it all. Hormones for me was a situation of while yes I was afraid of the pain and afraid of needles it was worth it to not have to live with this body anymore. I reached the point where I could not be happy living "in between" (no offense meant that's just how I felt it was in my case). I knew that in the end my grandmother may never talk to me again, would try to convince me to look to God and change my ways, and that my dating life would get harder. That last one though I don't agree with entirely because I'm not comfortable with what I have so either way my dating life is hard. Since starting T I'm already getting slightly more comfortable with it all. T changes many things and although I can't say 100% those things won't change back to how they were before I can't say that they will either. Good luck with everything man.
Since you've been on T have you experience any pain? What changes have you noticed so far?
I know the one thing for sure is I don't want to be stuck in this female body. I guess I just have to go for it. I'm so unhappy in this female body. I wanna get on with my life.
As far as changes. They are listed here https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,90336.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,90336.0.html) but really it isn't worth reading because I haven't had a whole lot. When I speak about my dysphoria getting worse on there I was referring to my chest.
As far as pain. None really. I've had some muscle cramps but I was getting those before T. I had a sore throat one day but it wasn't awful at all. Even my shot didn't really hurt. The T stung a little going in but it's just because it was thick. Scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being childbirth or something my pain has barely reached a 1 through the entire process so far.
Cool. Thanks for letting me know. I'm so anxious to get on T. I just wanna go ahead and do it.
If you are questioning turning back already I would recommend you wait starting anything. I first went to a trans support group when I was 19 years old. Everyone around me was talking about starting hormones and surgery and I felt very left behind, but in my heart I wasn't sure if it was the right thing for me. I eventually stopped going to the support group and did nothing about transitioning for a few years. Eventually though, it became more and more clear to me that it was the right choice. I didn't start taking T until I was 23. It seems like a long time to think but I wasn't comfortable making such big choices just because my friends were rushing into it. You have to do what is right for you. As happy as I am right now, I know I made the right choice by waiting until I was 100% sure
Quote from: Dominick_81 on January 05, 2011, 01:27:47 PM
I'm not sure what you mean... proud to have left over female parts?
No.
You said earlier, that you were worried about Transision now because, if at some time in the future, you had a religious change of mind, you might be left with the consequences.
I was making the point that, those that claim such religious ephanies generally hold the consequeces of their previous decisions in high regard, as an example of how they've walked with the devil and survived.
But as Squirrel suggests, (more or less), if you're not sure now, then you're already making a big mistake.
Quote from: Logan1986 on January 05, 2011, 03:12:23 PM
If you are questioning turning back already I would recommend you wait starting anything. I first went to a trans support group when I was 19 years old. Everyone around me was talking about starting hormones and surgery and I felt very left behind, but in my heart I wasn't sure if it was the right thing for me. I eventually stopped going to the support group and did nothing about transitioning for a few years. Eventually though, it became more and more clear to me that it was the right choice. I didn't start taking T until I was 23. It seems like a long time to think but I wasn't comfortable making such big choices just because my friends were rushing into it. You have to do what is right for you. As happy as I am right now, I know I made the right choice by waiting until I was 100% sure
I feel like I've been waiting my whole life and I just don't want to wait anymore. The thought of being trapped in a female body makes me wanna cry. I just don't want to be in this body. Whenever I go out in public, I get 2 feelings: 1: the feeling of someday being out there as a man and being seen as a man and that makes me feel great. The other feeling is being out in public and being seen as a girl and I HATE that. It bothers me so much to be seen as a girl. When I dropped off my T script, I was so nervous that I could possibly be making a mistake, but the thought of never getting on T just makes me want to cry. I don't want to wait years, months, or weeks to get on T. I've already waited that long. My feelings I have now probably won't change, but once I get on T they may change for the good. I'm so anxious and excited to start T, but at the same time very nervous. And I think the nervousness comes from what the changes are going to be. Am I gunna look so different that I'm gunna hate it, or am I gunna like the way I look after getting on T? I won't know until I get on it. Even though I know what's going to happen, I still feel nervous and excited at the same time. I really want to get my first shot tomorrow. I'm supposed to go out to the movies Friday with my friends, and if I don't get on T, I don't want to go out. I feel like a girl hanging out with my guy friends when I should feel like a guy hanging out with my guy friends. Only one of my friends knows that I'm trans and he's cool with it, my other friend doesn't know and my mom doesn't want me to tell him right now. But once I get that first shot, I'm gunna have to tell him. I want this (being male) so bad it kills me.
I guess I'm looking for people to say just do it, you'll feel so much better. You'll be so much happier. I guess I'm also waiting for my mother's approval. And there's no sense in waiting for that. So I just gota go ahead and do it, right? Just do it.
Quote from: spacial on January 05, 2011, 03:48:45 PM
No.
You said earlier, that you were worried about Transision now because, if at some time in the future, you had a religious change of mind, you might be left with the consequences.
I was making the point that, those that claim such religious ephanies generally hold the consequeces of their previous decisions in high regard, as an example of how they've walked with the devil and survived.
But as Squirrel suggests, (more or less), if you're not sure now, then you're already making a big mistake.
Okay, I see what your saying now.
hey Dom! You have the same religous issues as me. But I've realized something. The only time I've felt issues with religion and God is when I'm in environments that are not accepting. When I'm living at my own place most of the time), I'm not feeling any guilt or whatever about living full time as male, it's only when my really uptight Christian friends/etc. are saying stuff like we'll never be able to support you in this.. that I fee questioning and guilt? But after sorting through things I realized that these feelings were purely coming from my friends and families words and actions and not from God. When it's just God and I, there are no feelings of doubt or conviction or guilt. I too asked for guidance along the way, and got what I saw as clearly pro trans answers along the way. Looking through the bible too there is no reason to see this as a sin. Verses that intrepret this as sin often have other meanings that are not understood appropriately today.
Still here I sit in my parents house, wondering if when I hit 50 or 60 years old, if I'll have some kind of conviction suddenly hit over the matter.. and I'll be like.. shat I f'ed things up by transitioning. But yeah know what? I stop and think, and realize where I am, and I think.. I don't feel these doubts or guilts when I'm not in this environment, when I'm back where I live with my normal friends and my accepting Christian friends I'm going to feel just fine about this.
I guess what I'm asking you to consider. Where are these doubts coming from in your faith. Is it true worry and conviction? Or is it false conviction, that is brought on by living in an unnaccepting environment. I've felt this false conviction over things because of what people have said many other times in my life - things that were foolish and silly to feel guilty over in terms of God and I.
Who knows if this is right for you or not, you need to take some time, do some soul searching, do some other searching in general.. and think about this. We can' t tell you if this is right or wrong.
Never NEVER NEVER move ahead in transition just because you're having issues with your body, especially when you're thinking you may want to reverse the transition.
There is no undo button for transition. If you transition and want to go back you will essentially become a MTF and may have to undergo procedures in order to present as female again. Electrolosis to remove facial/body hair (which is very expensive), voice training to learn to talk in the feminine range again, changes to your lower parts are not reversible especially if you have bottom surgery.
The point is, your body will never be able to be restored to the point it was before you started hormones.
I know how hard dysphoria is to live with but if you're not fully ready to transition it may make things worse.
My advice is deal with as many issues as you can now BEFORE transition and when you're sure that this is something you have to do, and are prepared to live with doing this for the rest of your life, THEN move forward with transition.
Quote from: Dominick_81 on January 05, 2011, 01:27:47 PM
Saying you can't feel it makes me feel better. How does it feel in hot water? Does it hurt? I like to take hot baths. (I'm more of a bath person than a shower person)
My religious issues would be that I would be doing something wrong in the eyes of God. My grandmother keeps telling me God made me a girl that I wouldn't be happy as male, that God does not want me to change myself. I think my grandmother telling me that God does not want me to change myself upsets and frustrates me. That's how I go back to the religion thing, b/c my grandmother keeps telling me it's not right and that God doesn't want me to do this. I'll know I'll never get my grandmother to change her religious views or my mother either, but the guilt that my grandmother puts on me about God, makes me not want to go through with it. I'm trying to accept the fact I'll never get the support I'm looking for.
My grandmother told me that God didn't do this or make babies with defects, they just happens, but God didn't do it, b/c I asked her about stuff like that about babies being born with 2 faces or three arms, ect... I don't believe God would do this to people, it would be cruel, don't ya think? It just happens.
I think of the bible and when God cured a blind man... Now if God wanted the man to be blind he would have left him blind, but he he didn't, he cured him, he gave him sight so he could see. So God didn't make us like this, or anyone with birth defects, it just happens. So I guess I could see it as correcting a birth defect, which I do see it as, but my grandmother says it's not.
I know I would never want to go back, I'm afraid the guilt would force me back.
My grandmothers religious views are so strong that it makes me feel guilty. But she never said I would go to hell and believes I won't. But her strong opinions makes me feel so guilty.
I'm not sure what you mean... proud to have left over female parts?
To quote Jesus Christ: "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it."
Personally, I don't think you should listen to what your grandmother thinks God has planned for your life. Your relationship with God is YOUR relationship with God. I feel like my transition is my cross. We all have our own crosses to carry so we can become stronger through our weaknesses and teach people what we learned along the way. Do you fear your grandmother or do you fear God? To me, fear of the Lord means being afraid of not following the path he has for you. We are all individual and unique. We are not meant to be the same and I hate how people use God to scare people away from soul searching and becoming who they really are.
Quote from: Tad on January 05, 2011, 07:05:45 PM
hey Dom! You have the same religous issues as me. But I've realized something. The only time I've felt issues with religion and God is when I'm in environments that are not accepting. When I'm living at my own place most of the time), I'm not feeling any guilt or whatever about living full time as male, it's only when my really uptight Christian friends/etc. are saying stuff like we'll never be able to support you in this.. that I fee questioning and guilt? But after sorting through things I realized that these feelings were purely coming from my friends and families words and actions and not from God. When it's just God and I, there are no feelings of doubt or conviction or guilt. I too asked for guidance along the way, and got what I saw as clearly pro trans answers along the way. Looking through the bible too there is no reason to see this as a sin. Verses that intrepret this as sin often have other meanings that are not understood appropriately today.
Still here I sit in my parents house, wondering if when I hit 50 or 60 years old, if I'll have some kind of conviction suddenly hit over the matter.. and I'll be like.. shat I f'ed things up by transitioning. But yeah know what? I stop and think, and realize where I am, and I think.. I don't feel these doubts or guilts when I'm not in this environment, when I'm back where I live with my normal friends and my accepting Christian friends I'm going to feel just fine about this.
I guess what I'm asking you to consider. Where are these doubts coming from in your faith. Is it true worry and conviction? Or is it false conviction, that is brought on by living in an unnaccepting environment. I've felt this false conviction over things because of what people have said many other times in my life - things that were foolish and silly to feel guilty over in terms of God and I.
Who knows if this is right for you or not, you need to take some time, do some soul searching, do some other searching in general.. and think about this. We can' t tell you if this is right or wrong.
I feel that too when I'm around my mom or grandmother. I don't feel accepted at all and that makes me doubt. But when I'm alone or out in public I feel okay about transitioning. I feel it's the right thing to do for myself in order to feel some happiness. I know once I decided to transition I'm not gunna like all the changes but it's something I'm gunna have to learn to deal with and my counselor told me I have to deal without cutting myself... that's going to be hard.
I Think this is brought on by an unaccepting environment. That's why I'm always waiting to get support from my family so I can go ahead with the transition. I feel like I can't make the transition without their support and that's where my doubts come from, b/c I don't have that support I need from my family. If they were supportive it would be much easier for me to go ahead and make the transition.
Quote from: Osiris on January 05, 2011, 07:25:18 PM
Never NEVER NEVER move ahead in transition just because you're having issues with your body, especially when you're thinking you may want to reverse the transition.
There is no undo button for transition. If you transition and want to go back you will essentially become a MTF and may have to undergo procedures in order to present as female again. Electrolosis to remove facial/body hair (which is very expensive), voice training to learn to talk in the feminine range again, changes to your lower parts are not reversible especially if you have bottom surgery.
The point is, your body will never be able to be restored to the point it was before you started hormones.
I know how hard dysphoria is to live with but if you're not fully ready to transition it may make things worse.
My advice is deal with as many issues as you can now BEFORE transition and when you're sure that this is something you have to do, and are prepared to live with doing this for the rest of your life, THEN move forward with transition.
I will think about it, but deep down I know this is something I want. It's my fears of going to hell that gets in the way of my transitioning. Even though I've been told many times I won't go to hell, including my mother and grandmother telling me this. I just keep thinking of my grandmother telling me how wrong it is, and that's hard for me to get past that. If she told me everything is gunna be okay, it's not wrong to transition, I'd feel better about transitioning. But hearing those words from her is something I'm never gunna hear her say and that bothers me. I just want the support I'm looking for so I can move ahead, but I know I'm never gunna get it. But I will take a little time, (meaning maybe a few days or possibly a week. But I really don't want to wait that long) to try and get over my issues so I can move on.
The way I look at it is, if I put T on hold, I put my life on hold. I want to go back to school, but not as female, but as male.
Quote from: TheOtherSide on January 05, 2011, 07:41:45 PM
To quote Jesus Christ: "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it."
Personally, I don't think you should listen to what your grandmother thinks God has planned for your life. Your relationship with God is YOUR relationship with God. I feel like my transition is my cross. We all have our own crosses to carry so we can become stronger through our weaknesses and teach people what we learned along the way. Do you fear your grandmother or do you fear God? To me, fear of the Lord means being afraid of not following the path he has for you. We are all individual and unique. We are not meant to be the same and I hate how people use God to scare people away from soul searching and becoming who they really are.
I feel being transgender and transitioning is a cross.
I fear God, that's why I'm afraid to transition. If anyone uses God to scare people out of doing what that person wants to do, it will work, that's why it's working with me. I wanna transition, but whenever anyone uses God to scare me, it scares me and I end up not doing what I want to do, that's why I need God to tell me what to do. If I had God's approval, I'd have no problem making the transition. If God spoke to me right now and said go ahead and make the transition, I would do it, b/c I had his approval.
you fear God and thats why you fear transition? I think you fear what your grandmother thinks God is and what God wants. Answers come from within. Your Grandmother can't think for God. If you really fear God, then you will listen to your heart, not your grandmother.
When people use God to scare you, always remember that's not really God -that's ignorance and fear or differences manipulating God.
Quote from: TheOtherSide on January 05, 2011, 08:44:48 PM
you fear God and thats why you fear transition? I think you fear what your grandmother thinks God is and what God wants. Answers come from within. Your Grandmother can't think for God. If you really fear God, then you will listen to your heart, not your grandmother.
Yeah. And I fear what my grandmother says too. But more so God. Were supposed to fear God.
My heart tells me to transition.
Quote from: TheOtherSide on January 05, 2011, 08:47:14 PM
When people use God to scare you, always remember that's not really God -that's ignorance and fear or differences manipulating God.
I see. I'll remember that.
Dom, you're Christian, right? You know your bible tells you that the only way to the Father is through the Son, that if you believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins and rose again then you will go to heaven.
I'm going to let you into a little secret now, your grandma does things that make Jesus cry, we all do. Does that mean she is going to hell?
Remember the thief upon the cross next to Christ?
I don't think your reluctance to transition has anything to do with religion, I think you're using religion as the reason not to do it.
All your posts come across as someone who just isn't completely sure they are trans. Which means you may find out in the future that you aren't trans. Or it may be that you're just going through one of the many steps that trans people do before they find the truth for themselves.
You really don't want to be taking testosterone yet, it would be a big mistake.
Believe me, if you were at the stage where you actually needed testosterone then you wouldn't be hiding behind your grandma's version of God, you would be thanking God that you finally got the chance to be free to be your real self.
It's good to see someone question themselves and face up to the reality that there is no going back to exactly how they were pre T. The fact that you talk about a fear of developing an enlarged clitoris because girls don't have a large clitoris tells you a huge amount. Why would you be referring to yourself as a girl during and after transition?
Take time to look at what really is bugging you about your life and what it is that you are really trying to change. It could be that you find out that what you thought was ->-bleeped-<- actually turns out to be something else altogether. Or it might be that you are transgender but you just haven't hit the stage where you're desperate to transition yet.
It's good that you haven't just started taking T without realizing that it's a powerful life changing substance. You're sensible to be doing it exactly how you are. Good luck to you.
I'll just add some facts here.
People are basically all created female.
Testosterone drives them on a one-way trip into being male.
That's why FTM's have it easy (in some ways) because they are just going forward in a natural process.
MTF's are trying to turn a clock back on a process that has already occurred.
Testosterone is not a drug to fool with.
I won't be a cheerleader, Dominick.
Resolve your religious doubts before taking any testosterone.
I'm not Christian at all but I've read the Bible (various versions of it, plus the apocryph gospels) and as far as I remember, I don't recall any passage of Jesus blaming anyone because they were born wrong. Because as your grandmother says, those things just happen.
In fact, you see Christ actually helping them to recover from their defects. He cures a blind, a crippled, and such. Think of it this way. He's not alive now to be able to go to your home and give you the T now, but he has already sent you a sign making you aware that there is a medical relief for your problem. You're not going to hell just by following the steps he has been showing you.
I agree with John that you may be using your religious concerns to keep you away from yourself. I know it's easier to "let God decide for us", but sometimes God just let you to decide. You can think of it as privilege, as a test, or whatever you want. It's scary to understand that sometimes you have to act on your own, but it's the truth. Going by your own you can make mistakes of course, you're human, you're not perfect. But remember, you're not going to hell because of a mistake, but lying to yourself or using the name of God because you're afraid of yourself... well that's other thing. God is there to comfort you, not to be afraid of him/her/whatever.
I suggest you to sit alone, wether a silent church, your bedroom, or any place you feel comfortable and without distraction, do your regular prays and after that, just think about you. Leave God rest for a few minutes(well even he got tired and had to rest the sunday right?) and think what do you want for yourself, in your life. I encourage you to know yourself better before keep walking or using religion as a excuse.
What God is supposed to tell us is to follow our hearts, not our heads. If your heart is telling you to take T, then do it. But your head must be pure of doubts before it.
Quote from: JohnR on January 06, 2011, 03:46:39 AM
Dom, you're Christian, right? You know your bible tells you that the only way to the Father is through the Son, that if you believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins and rose again then you will go to heaven.
I'm going to let you into a little secret now, your grandma does things that make Jesus cry, we all do. Does that mean she is going to hell?
Remember the thief upon the cross next to Christ?
I don't think your reluctance to transition has anything to do with religion, I think you're using religion as the reason not to do it.
All your posts come across as someone who just isn't completely sure they are trans. Which means you may find out in the future that you aren't trans. Or it may be that you're just going through one of the many steps that trans people do before they find the truth for themselves.
You really don't want to be taking testosterone yet, it would be a big mistake.
Believe me, if you were at the stage where you actually needed testosterone then you wouldn't be hiding behind your grandma's version of God, you would be thanking God that you finally got the chance to be free to be your real self.
It's good to see someone question themselves and face up to the reality that there is no going back to exactly how they were pre T. The fact that you talk about a fear of developing an enlarged clitoris because girls don't have a large clitoris tells you a huge amount. Why would you be referring to yourself as a girl during and after transition?
Take time to look at what really is bugging you about your life and what it is that you are really trying to change. It could be that you find out that what you thought was ->-bleeped-<- actually turns out to be something else altogether. Or it might be that you are transgender but you just haven't hit the stage where you're desperate to transition yet.
It's good that you haven't just started taking T without realizing that it's a powerful life changing substance. You're sensible to be doing it exactly how you are. Good luck to you.
Quote from: Mr.Hyde on January 06, 2011, 07:34:04 AM
I'm not Christian at all but I've read the Bible (various versions of it, plus the apocryph gospels) and as far as I remember, I don't recall any passage of Jesus blaming anyone because they were born wrong. Because as your grandmother says, those things just happen.
In fact, you see Christ actually helping them to recover from their defects. He cures a blind, a crippled, and such. Think of it this way. He's not alive now to be able to go to your home and give you the T now, but he has already sent you a sign making you aware that there is a medical relief for your problem. You're not going to hell just by following the steps he has been showing you.
I agree with John that you may be using your religious concerns to keep you away from yourself. I know it's easier to "let God decide for us", but sometimes God just let you to decide. You can think of it as privilege, as a test, or whatever you want. It's scary to understand that sometimes you have to act on your own, but it's the truth. Going by your own you can make mistakes of course, you're human, you're not perfect. But remember, you're not going to hell because of a mistake, but lying to yourself or using the name of God because you're afraid of yourself... well that's other thing. God is there to comfort you, not to be afraid of him/her/whatever.
I suggest you to sit alone, wether a silent church, your bedroom, or any place you feel comfortable and without distraction, do your regular prays and after that, just think about you. Leave God rest for a few minutes(well even he got tired and had to rest the sunday right?) and think what do you want for yourself, in your life. I encourage you to know yourself better before keep walking or using religion as a excuse.
What God is supposed to tell us is to follow our hearts, not our heads. If your heart is telling you to take T, then do it. But your head must be pure of doubts before it.
I'm scared to transition b/c I'm not gunna like some of the side effects. I'm afraid of the painful side effects. I know I'm trans I have no doubt in that and not doubt I want to be a boy. It kills me to be in this body, I wish I could just wake one one day and be male without any pain. And another reason I fear about transitioning is disappointing my mother and grandmother. I really wanna get started on my transition. I'm excited to tell my boss at work that I will be starting testosterone soon b/c of the feeling I get of excitement that I will be a boy and be seen as a boy soon and that is a great feeling, a feeling a yearn for.
Quote from: Renate on January 06, 2011, 06:41:09 AM
I'll just add some facts here.
People are basically all created female.
Testosterone drives them on a one-way trip into being male.
That's why FTM's have it easy (in some ways) because they are just going forward in a natural process.
MTF's are trying to turn a clock back on a process that has already occurred.
Testosterone is not a drug to fool with.
I won't be a cheerleader, Dominick.
Resolve your religious doubts before taking any testosterone.
I will try to resolve my religious issues before getting on T.