Quote from: Tink on May 20, 2007, 10:14:40 PM

Quote from: Katia on May 20, 2007, 05:20:28 AM

Quote from: Hidrix on May 20, 2007, 03:11:27 AM
I aint got nothin to do w/ that dude, bro! he aint my friend.

what dude?  satan isn't a being; it's a symbol. 

This is only true in Laveyan Satanism, for Satan is not regarded as an entity but rather He symbolizes our carnal desires. As I previously said, there are many forms of Satanism.
One version of it (Satanism) is based on Eyptian mythology as opposed to Christian; it is based on the mythological being called Set. (an Egyptian devil)  and their church is called the Temple of Set. Another form is called Luciferianism. This is based on the devil as being named Lucifer.  Their philosophy is that the devil is who we must answer to in life and God is who we deal with in death.  Luciferians do believe in Satan as an entity and worship Him as such.
Personally I agree with the Luciferian version of Satanism over the others, mainly because I do believe in the devil as a literal being and see the God figure as is taught in religion as being real.

Quote from: Nero on May 19, 2007, 11:52:04 PM
Wow, this is all very fascinating. Thanks everybody! Tink, I am very interested. Please share more things with me.

Sure!  Anytime!  I have to admit that this topic fascinates me as well, for it teaches you so many things which you wouldn't expect to find in anything with the name Satan on it.  Just ask and if I know the answer, I will share it with you. 

tink

Ah......was wondering would when somebody would mention Set. Brother of Osiris who turned traitorous and chopped him up. Then spread his body parts over various places. Isis who was Osiris wife put him back together after finding them accept for one piece. If I remember correctly that piece became Horus. Anyways what makes Egyptian Mythology so invalid? Because it's not the Christian or Judaic Mythology?

Quote from: Pysgod on May 20, 2007, 11:12:15 PMAh......was wondering would when somebody would mention Set. Brother of Osiris who turned traitorous and chopped him up. Then spread his body parts over various places. Isis who was Osiris wife put him back together after finding them accept for one piece. If I remember correctly that piece became Horus. Anyways what makes Egyptian Mythology so invalid? Because it's not the Christian or Judaic Mythology?

Not sure about that, but it makes for a great episode of Stargate SG-1.  *hides*

Quote from: Pysgod on May 20, 2007, 11:12:15 PM
Isis who was Osiris wife put him back together after finding them accept for one piece. If I remember correctly that piece became Horus. Anyways what makes Egyptian Mythology so invalid? Because it's not the Christian or Judaic Mythology?

Nope: at least according to some common versions of the myth, Horus was his son from before all that (and in quite a few of them played a part in avenging daddy); what happened to Osiris' penis is that a crocodile ate it. Of course, since we are compressing some three millennia of cultural history into one 'culture', there are lots of variants of each of the myths.

Actually, the Egyptian view is in some respects pretty close to the Christian one, once you change the terms a bit and stop paying too much attention to the minute details of the various cults (which, as said, changed over the centuries anyway). That is, the gods were not all-powerful beings, or even the highest there was -- there was also this vague and rather non-descript divinity that in a sense manifested itself as the gods. That general divinity, mostly incomprehensible to humans, is in a lot of ways pretty close to the Christian concept of the Holy Ghost.

  Nfr

Quote from: Tink on May 19, 2007, 10:13:21 PM
Oh Nero, Nero, Nero, you have gotten me started..... I won't shut up now...

QuoteThe Nine Satanic Sins



1. Stupidity—The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid.

2. Pretentiousness—Empty posturing can be most irritating and isn't applying the cardinal rules of Lesser Magic. On equal footing with stupidity for what keeps the money in circulation these days. Everyone's made to feel like a big shot, whether they can come up with the goods or not.

3. Solipsism—Can be very dangerous for Satanists. Projecting your reactions, responses and sensibilities onto someone who is probably far less attuned than you are. It is the mistake of expecting people to give you the same consideration, courtesy and respect that you naturally give them. They won't. Instead, Satanists must strive to apply the dictum of "Do unto others as they do unto you." It's work for most of us and requires constant vigilance lest you slip into a comfortable illusion of everyone being like you. As has been said, certain utopias would be ideal in a nation of philosophers, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, from a Machiavellian standpoint) we are far from that point.

4. Self-deceit—It's in the "Nine Satanic Statements" but deserves to be repeated here. Another cardinal sin. We must not pay homage to any of the sacred cows presented to us, including the roles we are expected to play ourselves. The only time self-deceit should be entered into is when it's fun, and with awareness. But then, it's not self-deceit!

5. Herd Conformity—That's obvious from a Satanic stance. It's all right to conform to a person's wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many.

6. Lack of Perspective—Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints—know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world.

7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies—Be aware that this is one of the keys to brainwashing people into accepting something new and different, when in reality it's something that was once widely accepted but is now presented in a new package. We are expected to rave about the genius of the creator and forget the original. This makes for a disposable society.

8. Counterproductive Pride—That first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you've painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, I'm sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow, then do it.

9. Lack of Aesthetics—This is the physical application of the Balance Factor. Aesthetics is important in Lesser Magic and should be cultivated. It is obvious that no one can collect any money off classical standards of beauty and form most of the time so they are discouraged in a consumer society, but an eye for beauty, for balance, is an essential Satanic tool and must be applied for greatest magical effectiveness. It's not what's supposed to be pleasing—it's what is. Aesthetics is a personal thing, reflective of one's own nature, but there are universally pleasing and harmonious configurations that should not be denied.

what is sooooo wrong and evil about this?   

QuoteThe Nine Satanic Statements




1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development," has become the most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!



9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!

tink

Those aren't necessarily negative or 'satanic'.

I'm reminded of the quote by Elbert Hubbard,

"Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped."

Yes.

Satanism isn't a religion because their members do not believe in heaven, hell, god, or satan. They use the symbol of satan to serve as a stark contrast to Christian teaching.  The main idea is that Christian teaching mortifies the flesh, making the spirit all important, but to a satanist, the flesh is all there is, so mortifying it is to mortify human existence entirely. Therefore, the counterpoint Satanism provides is total respect and total expression of human nature.

Bear in mind that there was an etimological split in the Indo-European language about 6000 years ago.  It was largely caused by racial conflicts between Caucasian people migrating into India and the Dravidian people who were already living there.  The end result was that west of the Oxus river, black was bad and white was good.  And east of the river black was good and white was bad.  This has been played out in the names for spiritual beings.  In western culture we have good "angels" and bad "devils."  In eastern culture they have bad "anglos" and good "divas."

For the most part, Laveyan satanism is a parody religion. its aim is to be totally counter and opposite to Christianity.  Honestly now....most satanists are former Christians revolting against what they see as oppression by the church in areas such as sex, freedom, power, etc.  The satanists take the Christian fundamentals and reverse them as a means of rebelling.  If there were no Christians there would be no satanists in the general sense; I am sure that Islam, Judaism, and Buddhism  would have their own versions.

Quote from: Butterfly on May 22, 2007, 10:50:46 AM
Satanism isn't a religion because their members do not believe in heaven, hell, god, or satan. They use the symbol of satan to serve as a stark contrast to Christian teaching.  The main idea is that Christian teaching mortifies the flesh, making the spirit all important, but to a satanist, the flesh is all there is, so mortifying it is to mortify human existence entirely. Therefore, the counterpoint Satanism provides is total respect and total expression of human nature.

i disagree.  some sects of satanism [notably the church of satan, a group that follows laveyan style satanism] is a tax-exempt religion. but you have to remember that some sects of satanism [such as the CoS] are notably atheistic since they do not believe in a deity or a demonic presence, rather they use the name as a symbol of the left-hand path, or frankly do it just to piss off the christian majority. these are similar to the buddhists in that technically they should not be called religions because they are myths.  on the other hand, some sects of satanism, such as the temple of set, are theistic and reject the deific for the demonic.

Quote from: Katia on May 22, 2007, 03:53:02 PM
i disagree.  some sects of satanism [notably the church of satan, a group that follows laveyan style satanism] is a tax-exempt religion. but you have to remember that some sects of satanism [such as the CoS] are notably atheistic since they do not believe in a deity or a demonic presence, rather they use the name as a symbol of the left-hand path, or frankly do it just to piss off the christian majority. these are similar to the buddhists in that technically they should not be called religions because they are myths.  on the other hand, some sects of satanism, such as the temple of set, are theistic and reject the deific for the demonic.

Katia is correct, especially her last sentence. A friend of mine who is a pastor of a local church was a devotee of the Temple of Set. His conversion to Christianity is a powerful testimony, and he could regale us for hours of why it is indeed a religion... at least that particular brand of it.

Satanism has a Deity at its center, and does qualify in conventional terms as a Religion.

Why is there this obfuscation of a simple matter?

tmw

Quote from: The Middle Way on May 22, 2007, 08:44:04 PM
Satanism has a Deity at its center, and does qualify in conventional terms as a Religion.

A deity is not required to make something a religion.  A belief in any kind of supernatural power that can be influenced by worship or ritual will do.