So this morning my wife tells me she's determined that no matter what choice I make (to transition or not), she's realized our marriage was based on lies as I'm obviously not the man she thought I was - and she's going to start drafting up divorce papers.  She further went on to say that if I shouldn't go to any of the kids social functions (like open house) because she doesn't want the embarrassment of having to introduce me as her transgendered ex-husband - which she said she would do if I dared to show up.  Can't have someone possibly think she was a lesbian!  Much easier to embarrass and shame me!

It's been a tough day to say the least.  Keep in mind that I'm currently in the military and deployed in the middle east.  I haven't seen my wife and kids in seven months and have another 3.5 months at least before I get home.  All of our conversations are via skype or email.  The above was via skype.  I thought I'd share the email i just wrote to her.  yes it's personal, but I wonder how many of us have written simlar words to our soon to be ex-SO?

Any thoughts or comments are appreciated.  And yes, I'm obviously in a difficult place right now.

Here's the email:
Today has been a rough one for me.  My emotions have taken hold of my physical being.  My stomach and head are in conflict and I feel physically ill.  I've taken a long lunch break, trying to feel better and steeling myself to return to the office.  I lay on the bed and had a flash of a dream that I thought relevant and worth sharing.

I was running through the mountains and, coming to a granite outcropping - I leap off at full-speed without looking at what's beneath me.   A sense of total freedom and flight, unafraid of the inevitable fall, confident that life will provide a survivable landing.  Hitting the ground in a roll, that keeps going, a hundred, two hundred feet down a rocky slope and then off the edge of the cliff - wildly falling through the air once more, unafraid of the possible death of being dashed on the rocks of the riverbed beneath me.  Hit the water like a ton of bricks, sinking to the bottom and letting the current carry me to the surface and away from the site of my terminal fall.  I was broken and battered when I hit the water, but surface intact and whole - ready to face the rapids ahead.

I expected this to be a painful process.  I suspected you would have difficulty with this and feared the possibility of losing you.  It's not fair to say this but I will - at this moment I feel betrayed.

I know you want to move on.  You want closure.  You see this part of your life as over - a failure.  You want to start the process of rebuilding.  In your eyes I'm an embarrassment that you're ashamed of.  It's easier to hurt me than to risk someone thinking you might be something you find repulsive - a lesbian.  Do you even realize how insulting and hurtful it is to seriously say you would introduce me as your transgendered ex-husband???  ->-bleeped-<- you and the high horse you rode in on this morning.  I would never do something like that to you and I hope it's your heart breaking that would make you say such things.  My heart is already shattered, do you really need to run it through a meat grinder to make sure it's dead?

Do you have any idea of how scared and alone I feel right now?

I'm not trying to lay a guilt trip or make you feel worse than you deserve.  You've obviously had some pent up feelings as all of this can't be only from my revelation.

I'm sorry if you feel betrayed.  I always sought to be honest with you.  I've never withheld anything from you.  This has been a struggle with me for a long time and I blinded myself to possibilities I didn't want to see.

You're right though.  I'm not the man you need.  I never was and I never will be.  I'm sorry I can't be man enough for you, but I won't spend the rest of my life pretending to be something I'm not.

If you loved me and respected me, you'd at least do me the courtesy of learning what it means to suffer with this, what the road of ahead of me looks like, and the joys that come with finally discovering you're so much more than you thought you were.

Don't be an ostrich and shove your head in the sand, thinking you're going to win in court and get full custody and cut me off from my children because I'm an embarrassment to you.  You used to stand beside me in my criticism of those that chose to see only the version of reality that they found comfortable.  I've said it before and I'll say it again.  Life is not black and white.  Don't be a sheep to the wolf of cultural conditioning or to your close-minded asian culture that says not talking about or acknowledging something will make it go away or make it cease to exist.

I exist.  I've existed as a man, a husband, a father.  I'll exist as a woman, a partner, mother.  And I'll be a better person as I'll be complete and genuine - not an actor trying to play a part written for someone else.

In your mind you fear a future where you're trying to introduce me to other parents - the boys' father in a dress and makeup.  I see a future of shared excitement over their achievements and being like any other proud parent - cheering my children on.  In my future I'm not a man in a dress, I'm a beautiful and confident woman that my children will be proud to acknowledge.

For the first time in our marriage, I can't tell you that I love you.  Because the woman that ripped my heart out this morning, the woman I'm writing this to, is not the woman that I love.

When you find the woman I fell in love with and that fell in love with me, have her give me a call - she's worth talking to.

If you decide you want an education on what I'm going through and will go through, ask and I'll tell you what's in my heart and head.  And I can give you links to resources and to stories from others who've expressed themselves with more clarity than I have.

- (name withheld)

Do I sound like a total a$$hole here?

I'm really sorry this is happening, to all of you. Change can be really hard for people to accept, when it's not on their terms. I hope you can work something out together.

Quote from: SageFox on October 08, 2012, 06:06:34 AM

Do I sound like a total a$$hole here?

Not to me because I understand you completely, but to her probably yes. She will see it all as your betrayal of her and the kids. It may take a long time if ever for her to see it otherwise. My own heart is breaking for you both, this is like the film "Groundhog Day" because it's happened to many of your brothers and sisters here all too often. The carnage is overwhelming, but consider this; when we're born there is always pain and an issue of blood involved. You have taken the initiative to announce the coming of a new life, there is pain and discomfort to follow, but it's the nature of things in this world. Hang in there troop, I was once deployed as an Airborne trooper in another war zone, get through this and come home safely. Then set your resolve to be as sweet and loving as you possibly can in the face of withering fire here on the home front. You'll get through it because you are a survivor! Bless you and thank you for your service!

No you do not sound like an ass-hole... but you do sound, and not surprisingly so, quite self-centred.
Finding out who and what we are - initially - drives us into ourselves. This is all so overwhelming to finally decide coming out it is neigh impossible to be able to look beyond it. For quite a while...
I've been there, and when I eventually got feedback... I had to learn this and I... agreed.

The other thing I noticed that you are mentioning the past in a way like: Well, we had it coming, or better - I had it coming. It was just a question of time - maybe the 'right' time.

I only bring this up because I have some idea what your spouse had been seeing - but also refused to deal with or bring it up. It's not only because women are socialized as is, trying to avoid confrontation... suffer in silence (mostly...) but when the measure is full... we done. Finished.

It feels to me, by the words you chose, that the relationship had been dying some sort of slow death. If I'm right... then accept it, take it on board, AND TRY TO LOOK PAST YOUR OWN PAIN, just try and it may give you some insight and hopefully also a more understanding, forgiving attitude.

At the same time - DO NOT MAKE THE MISTAKE OF LOADING YOURSELF UP WITH GUILT!
This will NOT help ANYTHING; it only will make matters worse for the two of you.
It's not your fault you're born this way, NOT AT ALL!!!!

Lastly, and you will know your spouse better than my imagination will allow - she seems not anyway near as self-assured a woman you might have thought YOU married.

To be unembarrassed take 'balls' and that is not exactly where too many of our tribe excel... it's why we have MEN. It's why we LOVE men, because they are (or at least meant to be) STRONGER.

And since I see the word LOVE in the lines above... how about THAT?
I didn't read that word in your email, none. I don't know about your other communications of course.

Maybe it's too late to speak about LOVE... only you will know.

We are all with you and this dilemma - and also, whoever said any of it was EASY?
No one, um.

Axélle

Thanks for the replies everyone.  You all make some good points.

I was in a dark place when I wrote that and probably put more heart than thought into it (wrote it in ten angst-filled minutes).  I do love my wife.  The person that spoke with me this morning was like the evil twin that's been locked in the attic for years - someone that looked and sounded like the person I loved, but not her.

I've tried very hard to not be self-centered throughout this.  But after forty years of putting my family first, being a single parent (I had custody of my two daughters from my first marriage), working in a field I don't really love because it pays well, and then being married again for the last eight years and teaching that woman what a relationship is about and what it really means to love someone (her first relationship of any kind) - I feel I have a right to focus on myself for a bit. 

My children will always be a priority for me, but my wife has control over her actions and her words and while I understand her pain and can forgive some of it, I can't forgive all of it.  A personal attack against me is one thing, but threatening to distance me from my children or ostracize me from their social or organization groups (soccer, school, etc) for her own selfish reasons is NOT acceptable or permissible.

Our marriage has not been ideal, but we have had many good times.  We are both intelligent, educated individuals and while we "debate" often, we've always avoided saying hurtful things to each other (until now apparantly).  I even told her I wanted a divorce about five years ago - mainly because she'd created a poisonous atmosphere in the relationship.  Over six months she realized her mistakes and worked to correct them.  We got back together and eventually had two beautiful children - and I thought we were happy and working towards the same goals. 

Obviously some of my direction has recently changed, but I had still intended to be engaged with my family - with her if she'd have me or without her if not.  But always I saw myself as a parent and provider first.

I do have some guilt - but mostly its over the thought of not being there full-time for my boys.  And the idea of her finding some new man to be a father for my children is infuriating and heartbreaking.

And of course the hard part is that because I love her I want her to be happy.  I'm obviously causing her a lot of pain and that hurts me as well.  But having been divorced before I know there's always a brighter future if you're willing to put forth the effort to build and/or find it.  I know at some point the pain will dwindle and we'll both find happiness again.

I don't know that I agree about men being STRONGER.  I've learned a lot over the years by wearing a man-suit.  How to be strong was a lesson I learned early on (better than many "real" men IMO).  And sadly, times like this - when I want nothing more than to cry my eyes out in the comfort of someone else's arms - is when I have to dry my tears and once more find that strength I've built over the years.

You have my total sympathy ... I know exactly how hard it is to come out to ones wife ... and how hard it is for her to come to terms with that. I was also told, 'I didn't sign up for this when I married you,' and I could hardly argue with that.

We have to be prepared for our partners to feel angry, humiliated, betrayed, powerless and just plain scared. These are women who've committed themselves to a man and suddenly he's talking about changing himself into a woman* - and, trust me, she doesn't believe you'll ever be a 'real' woman in a million years - and WTF is THAT about? Plus, there's nothing at all she can do to change your mind, which is an awful thing to know.

Bearing all that in mind, I hope ... hope ... that her views will change a little once she's had time to come to terms with things. Some people can't manage that. They can't get beyond their hostility. They can't reach the point of accepting that you are becoming the real you, and that all the things in your soul that they ever loved are still right there ...

But others can reach that point. They can accept that you are still your children's parent, that you still love and need them and that they need you and your love.

I pray that you and your wife can reach that point of understanding .. but it will take love, acceptance and forgiveness on both sides ... And I'm afraid that as the people who are the cause of all this strife - in that we're the ones who want to change the way things are - we have to accept that we can't demand acceptance .. but maybe we can earn it. Because we deserve it.

This may be a long, dark road .. but I hope and believe you'll reach the sunshine in the end.

(* I'm phrasing it the way other people see it)

Just some feedback - if you not up for it, ignore it please?

"I don't know that I agree about men being STRONGER."

What was said was...:

"It's why we LOVE men, because they are (or at least meant to be) STRONGER."

1) This is a good case to say it again: "We do not see things how they are - we see things how WE are"

2) And you are still so doing that "manly thing" ... and if I was your wife... I'd be so confused... and confusion creates anger.

All beginnings are hard...
Axélle
PS: of course sharing your sandbox with an bunch of guys will rub off, never mind all those years before... getting there?

Quote from: AbraCadabra on October 08, 2012, 12:00:48 PM

1) This is a good case to say it again: "We do not see things how they are - we see things how WE are"

2) And you are still so doing that "manly thing" ... and if I was your wife... I'd be so confused... and confusion creates anger.

You make some good points.  Unfortunately I'm forced to be in guy mode every day right now - it makes it very hard to unlearn these bad habits.  But I'm trying to rediscover my sensitivity.  Hopefully once I get home I'll be able to make better progress on that.

The really sad part is that what people see is nowhere close to how I see myself or how I want to present myself to the world.  I think I've gotten too good at acting like a man.

And thanks Carlita.  Sorry to hear you went through the same thing.  I suspect a negative and rejecting response is probably more common than supportive acceptance.

Quote from: SageFox on October 08, 2012, 12:15:30 PM
And thanks Carlita.  Sorry to hear you went through the same thing.  I suspect a negative and rejecting response is probably more common than supportive acceptance.

I'd say that a shocked and frightened response is pretty normal ... but with luck and love it may - who knows? - be possible to work through to something more positive. I hope ... for both our sakes!

also, just keep this in mind everyone: let's not make the wife a villain in this either.

She was honest and spoke from her heart in that letter (I wouldn't necessarily have posted that letter on a public forum either).

My wife is more the victim than the villain here.  While I don't appreciate her hostility, I can't dismiss it as unwarranted.  And it was my letter to her that I posted.  I wouldn't post something she wrote without her permission (though I did quote her spoken words)  And I omitted names or anything identifying to protect the innocent (and the not to so innocent).

I posted it because I thought perhaps insight into my experience would help readers recognize what others go through and for me to possibly get some reassurance (or a kick in the ass) from people with varying perspectives or experiences.

I see the best case scenario at this point is that I lose a wife but retain one of my best friends.

Worst case is that I lose her completely and have to fight tooth and nail to remain a part of my children's lives.   

A while ago I gave her a link here and encouraged her to visit the site - for education and support.  I'm sure she hasn't visited and likely won't as she's been predominantly antagonistic when anything trans is even mentioned.  Meaning she'll probably never read this and she's the only one that "knows me" IRL that would end up here.  So beyond opinions, support, or criticism being given I'm not afraid of reprisals for presenting myself (pain and all) in a public forum.  I haven't witnessed any anti-trans hatery on this site.

i know what you are going through. My ex and I went through the same thing. Only..my ex did not take it as well. Didn't even confront the issue. She just up and left and I havent seen nor do I know where my children are after four years.

So I really do know your pain.

I'm hoping for the best for you!

I've been through the "...you're not a real man..." breakup twice now. Worse part was both times it wasn't like I was planning on transitioning, just being honest. First time was her finding out after a long courtship and marriage. Second was right up front, followed by the long courtship, engagement, almost wedding date and finally the breakup. I've long maintained that it is much more difficult for a spouse to deal with. Your being trans is something that is suddenly dumped on them. Whereas you spent nearly a lifetime grappling with it. It is overwhelming for them. The table has been kicked over in the middle of the game. Suddenly they are told what they signed on for is no longer valid.

Even for my current wife, who has known about me for well over 30 years there are times she is overwhelmed, as am I, as I seriously grapple with for the third time transitioning. Better yet, how to avoid it without totally loosing it The past few years have been difficult for us both. Lots of tears. Lots of fears. Plus the occassional dose of anger.

Quote from: JoanneB on October 08, 2012, 06:29:05 PM
I've been through the "...you're not a real man..." breakup twice now. Worse part was both times it wasn't like I was planning on transitioning, just being honest. First time was her finding out after a long courtship and marriage. Second was right up front, followed by the long courtship, engagement, almost wedding date and finally the breakup. I've long maintained that it is much more difficult for a spouse to deal with. Your being trans is something that is suddenly dumped on them. Whereas you spent nearly a lifetime grappling with it. It is overwhelming for them. The table has been kicked over in the middle of the game. Suddenly they are told what they signed on for is no longer valid.

Even for my current wife, who has known about me for well over 30 years there are times she is overwhelmed, as am I, as I seriously grapple with for the third time transitioning. Better yet, how to avoid it without totally loosing it The past few years have been difficult for us both. Lots of tears. Lots of fears. Plus the occassional dose of anger.

All of which raises a question that I grapple with every day ... what right do any of us have to get married, and maybe then have children? Aren't we just inflicting all our problems onto entirely innocent people who didn't ask for any of this sh*t?

We didn't ask for the is sh*t, either, of course ... but once we know we've got it, how can we knowingly dump it on other people?

Quote from: Carlita on October 09, 2012, 04:52:09 AM
All of which raises a question that I grapple with every day ... what right do any of us have to get married, and maybe then have children? Aren't we just inflicting all our problems onto entirely innocent people who didn't ask for any of this sh*t?

We didn't ask for the is sh*t, either, of course ... but once we know we've got it, how can we knowingly dump it on other people?

We have the same rights ever other person has.  We have a right to be happy.  To be loved.  To love others.  Being a parent has been one of my greatest joys.  Being married has been close second.  Many marriages fall apart for a variety of reasons.  People change and grow apart.  While discovering you weren't the person they thought they married is a valid argument, I can see that same argument being played out in non-Trans breakups just as easily.

As for "inflicting" this problem on my family - I don't see it that way.  My marriage had challenges before this but we were working through them.  One of the fundamental differences between my spouse and I is her reaction to this.  She sees this as a betrayal and a loss of her husband.  if the situation were reversed I can confidently say that I would be much more accepting and understanding.  We view the world and our relationships with people from very different places.  I can control my actions and the intentional harm I choose to "inflict" upon others.  This is a fundamental identity issue that I'm working through that she's "choosing" to view from a negative context, seeing the "inevitable" outcome as being hurtful and damaging to her (ie loss of life partner, sexual mate, father for children, etc).  If I'm ultimately a happier, more complete and better person than this should be a positive change - no inflicting of harm intended or necessary - unless she chooses to view it as such.

I don't think my children will suffer any direct harm from this at all - I'll still be a loving parent and a better example of how to be happy and well-balanced than I was before.  I do acknowledge that they may suffer indirect harm from society and the extended family, but I can only believe they'll be stronger for having to deal with the discrimination issue.

Quote from: Carlita on October 09, 2012, 04:52:09 AM
All of which raises a question that I grapple with every day ... what right do any of us have to get married, and maybe then have children? Aren't we just inflicting all our problems onto entirely innocent people who didn't ask for any of this sh*t?

We didn't ask for the is sh*t, either, of course ... but once we know we've got it, how can we knowingly dump it on other people?

Well, I agree - but how many at least pretend we don't know - and quite successfully even fool yourselves?

I did... but that was firstly 44 years ago, followed (not married and no child this time) 22 years ago by a... long standing non-engagement.
This ended 3 years back and 1/2 year befor my epiphany...

Getting married in the hope to 'fix' one's GD truly seems quite irresponsible... with payback time following in its wake.
My second ex is not talking to me either - not that it matters I have to say, as the relationship had been going down the tubes for a long time, for years. She has Aspergers's - doesn't want to know, didn't know, refuses to know... realtionships do end for reasons other then TS also... something to remember.

Axélle

Not sharing something fundamental about yourself (like GID) before asking someone to commit to a long-term relationship IS wrong - I agree with that.  But you can only share what you DO know.

But I also think that expecting someone to be the same person after five, ten or twenty years of marriage is a bit delusional.

People hit milestones or critical events in life and it causes them to reevaluate their priorities, their mistakes, and their direction.  This is natural for nearly everyone.  Some of us constantly reevaluate ourselves and our situation (not always successfully obviously).

For the record, I never entered into a relationship with any expectation of it "fixing" me.  I don't ever consider myself to be "broken" - incomplete and confused, yes, but not broken.  A good relationship will make you better, but only you can fix you if you're broken.

Quote from: SageFox on October 09, 2012, 05:14:09 AM
We have the same rights ever other person has.  We have a right to be happy.  To be loved.  To love others.  Being a parent has been one of my greatest joys.  Being married has been close second.  Many marriages fall apart for a variety of reasons.  People change and grow apart.  While discovering you weren't the person they thought they married is a valid argument, I can see that same argument being played out in non-Trans breakups just as easily.

As for "inflicting" this problem on my family - I don't see it that way.  My marriage had challenges before this but we were working through them.  One of the fundamental differences between my spouse and I is her reaction to this.  She sees this as a betrayal and a loss of her husband.  if the situation were reversed I can confidently say that I would be much more accepting and understanding.  We view the world and our relationships with people from very different places.  I can control my actions and the intentional harm I choose to "inflict" upon others.  This is a fundamental identity issue that I'm working through that she's "choosing" to view from a negative context, seeing the "inevitable" outcome as being hurtful and damaging to her (ie loss of life partner, sexual mate, father for children, etc).  If I'm ultimately a happier, more complete and better person than this should be a positive change - no inflicting of harm intended or necessary - unless she chooses to view it as such.

I don't think my children will suffer any direct harm from this at all - I'll still be a loving parent and a better example of how to be happy and well-balanced than I was before.  I do acknowledge that they may suffer indirect harm from society and the extended family, but I can only believe they'll be stronger for having to deal with the discrimination issue.

My soon to be ex feels the same way as you mentioned above. She sees this as a huge betrayal. She actually went as far as to morn the death of her husband. She treated it as if I were really dead. We were seeing a couples counselor for a while. We stopped going once the therapist told her that it is up to her how she reacts to this. Yes, it is hard. But, no, she does not need to feel betrayed. She is choosing to make this feel as difficult and hurtful as she can.

My son, 6, is doing fine with all of this. In fact, he is one of my biggest supporters. He likes to buy me nail polish, and help me when I go get clothes. He, so far, is having no issues adjusting to this situation despite the influences coming from his mother.

Your marriage may be over, but your life is just beginning. The road ahead will not be an easy one. But, in my opinion, it will be worth it. I am still relatively early in my journey, but I do know that I will feel so much better once I get to where I want to be.

Best of luck, and thank you for your service.

Quote from: Carlita on October 09, 2012, 04:52:09 AM
All of which raises a question that I grapple with every day ... what right do any of us have to get married, and maybe then have children? Aren't we just inflicting all our problems onto entirely innocent people who didn't ask for any of this sh*t?

We didn't ask for the is sh*t, either, of course ... but once we know we've got it, how can we knowingly dump it on other people?

Both times I can say almost for certain I wasn't hoping to be "cured". Fade away in time at best for #1. That sure didn't happen. I still needed my monthly or so escape from maleness. A secret I tried to keep from her.

In the cases of my second serious relationship and my current wife, since I was upfront about myself, I see dealing with being trans as no different than any other human foible. We all have them and have to decide if you can handle a partner with them. I tried or seriously worked towards transition twice before all these relationships. Both times opting to stick at "faking normal". I am still hoping to go that route but it seems more and more doubtfull each passing month as I see what the alternate reality can be like.

Quote from: JoanneB on October 09, 2012, 05:02:08 PM
Both times I can say almost for certain I wasn't hoping to be "cured". Fade away in time at best for #1. That sure didn't happen. I still needed my monthly or so escape from maleness. A secret I tried to keep from her.

In the cases of my second serious relationship and my current wife, since I was upfront about myself, I see dealing with being trans as no different than any other human foible. We all have them and have to decide if you can handle a partner with them. I tried or seriously worked towards transition twice before all these relationships. Both times opting to stick at "faking normal". I am still hoping to go that route but it seems more and more doubtfull each passing month as I see what the alternate reality can be like.

Interesting point about being 'cured' ... Until very recently, I still harboured the belief, hope or perhaps just fantasy that there was someone out there who could solve my problems. I thought, maybe I could find this person, I could be a 'real' man and then, once I'd fixed myself I could go back to my wife and be the husband I'd always wanted, but failed to to be for her ...

A quick pause, here, to consider how dumb supposedly smart people  can be ...

So, anyway, I tested this theory to destruction, almost destroying myself, my marriage and the other people involved with me while I was at it. And I discovered that there was absolutely no escaping the truth of what and who I was.

Now, I certainly didn't enter into marriage or parenthood meaning to deceive anyone. But now that I can't hide from the truth any more I feel terrible about the pain it's causing everyone.

Did I have any choice in having GID? Obviously not.

Have the past three decades been wasted? Absolutely not.

Would it have been better if my kids had not been born? Again, no way.

But do I still feel guilty? You betcha.